Spencer Matthews: "I lack empathy!" Managing addiction and victim mentality

What limiting beliefs do you hold about yourself? Spencer Matthews has embraced his sense of adventure in order to explore his full potential. In this chat with Fearne, Spencer gets into the shame he felt while he was drinking, why he’s now channelling his addictive nature into running instead, and how to avoid blaming everyone else for your own issues. He also explains how seeking approval from his parents drove him, and why his relationship with his own daughter is so special now. Spencer is currently attempting his second World Record - PROJECT SE7EN. This physical and mental feat will see Spencer take on 7 full-distance triathlons (3.8km swim, 180km bike, 42.4km run) on all 7 continents in just 21 days. Throughout the challenge, Spencer will be raising funds for men's suicide prevention charity James' Place. You can follow the journey via his Instagram @spencermatthews. Donations can be made via the link in his bio and via the official givestar page https://givestar.io/gs/spencer-matthews-project-7?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnSaq0Ega2a4KkZyA9QaprBFXVrAZOkpX8DnDsGpqwjVKLDcKwwK9IHV8zzHc_aem_M4xxyRr68lZFmO7acBQVyA. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Vogue Williams https://pod.fo/e/326783 Jamie Laing https://pod.fo/e/340299 Erling Kagge https://pod.fo/e/15f50 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that helps you embrace your sense of adventure. Today, I'm chatting to Spencer Matthews.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  I love life as an experience and I think it's interesting to hit those moments where you feel like a loser and you feel shit about your behaviour and that ended with the 30 marathons, crossing the finish line that day. A lot of that shame vanished kind of in that moment. It was a real sense of achievement, you know, and for somebody who has felt a lot of shame and in reality hadn't achieved much.

• 1:06Fearne Cotton?

  Guys, I am in new mum mode, just to let you know. I've got a new kitten from the rescue centre, the Mayhew, my fourth cat from the Mayhew. And it's actually a surprise that I've even turned up to speak these words now because I am so distracted, I'm getting nothing done, absolutely nothing. I've got emails coming out my arse, a laundry bag that's completely full. All I want to do is play with a little tiny fig. She's two months old, she's so adorable. For anyone out there who, because I've had a few people contact me on social media saying, "How do you integrate existing cats with a newbie?" It's fine, I'm no expert, but what I've done previously is keep them in separate rooms with a door between them, they can smell each other.

• 1:51Fearne Cotton?

  This door in my house is glass, they can see each other as well as smell each other. And then you just slowly do it. Now, my cat Simon, who you may have seen on my social media, can be a right arsehole. So I'm a little bit nervous about that, but I'm hoping the transition is all going to be okay and by next week she'll be mooching around the whole house. She is. So cute. Go to my social media if you want to have a little look at her. So alongside caring for little cute baby figgy, I've also been chatting to some very interesting people recently. One of them is Spencer. Now, we all first got to know Spencer on Made in Chelsea. He was part of the original cast. He's like a MIC OG. And my God, he let loose on what really goes on behind the scenes on that show. You will love that bit if you're a

• 2:36Fearne Cotton?

  Made in Chelsea fan. More recently, though, he started doing some incredibly impressive athletic challenges. So listen to this. Spencer's latest athletic endeavour is attempting to complete seven full triathlons on seven continents in under four weeks. But of course, there are charitable reasons. All funds raised are going to men's suicide prevention charity, James's Place. And I had this chat with Spencer just before he started this challenge last month. So he'd been training incredibly hard, which made me feel really guilty about my complete lack of movement that week. We talk about that sense of adventure that's driving him now. And actually, just how important adventure is. I think we can all be guilty

• 3:20Fearne Cotton?

  of thinking that adventure is in the future, or I can't really do adventure now, even if it's like, I'm not talking about doing seven triathlons. I mean, it could be just, you know, a little walk in a new place, or trying something new, going to an art class, whatever it is. But that sense of adventure is so important to break through the mundanity. And I think it's so important to not put adventure on hold. We chat a lot about that. Also, choosing to live by the opinions of just a few people who are genuinely important to you. That one I made notes on. Living with shame while drinking. We talk a lot about drinking. Spencer has been on Happy Place before, and we touched on that, but we really dived deeply into that one. Also, not slipping into victim mentality and what he really thinks about Made in Chelsea.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Help I Sexed My Boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson.

• 4:42Speaker 05

  I'm Jordan North.

• 4:43Speaker 04

  And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life.

• 4:46Speaker 05

  William's the arbiter of etiquette.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang.

• 4:52Speaker 05

  So if you want laugh-out-loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss.

• 4:58Speaker 04

  Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday.

• 5:00Speaker 05

  On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Just search Sexed It.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Be warned, it's a bit bleeping.

• 5:10Fearne Cotton?

  Right, I don't know if you've seen, and if you haven't, or where have you been, the Happy Place festivals are back for 2026. We're at Old Deer Park in London on the 11th and 12th of July, and Tatten Park in Cheshire on the 5th and 6th of September. Early bird tickets are on sale right now, so if you head to the Happy Place website, you can get yours before they're gone. And really cool news, we now have our very own Happy Place Festival Instagram, where you can keep up to date with all the amazing things we've got planned for you at the festivals next year. So make sure you're following @HappyPlaceFestival. Really important if you're going, so you know what's on offer, all the details about getting there, et cetera. Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

• 6:16Fearne Cotton?

  Spencer, welcome back to Happy Place.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  I'm delighted to be here. I loved our first interview.

• 6:20Fearne Cotton?

  Me too, me too. Our last one was really interesting because we talked a lot about your brother and about you climbing Mount Everest, or partly climbing Mount Everest, and that being, you know, a huge life moment for you. We kind of concentrated on that, but I think we've got so much more to talk about today. Of course, you're doing another mad challenge.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  Yes, I am. The first major one, I suppose, last year changed my life. I loved it so much.

• 6:47Fearne Cotton?

  What did it change?

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Oh, so to recap, it was, we've not seen each other in a while. It was 30 marathons and 30 days in the desert. People are going to get bored of me saying that now, so I need to do something else. But it was, I don't know, it was enlightening. I learnt a lot about myself. I had a lot of cathartic moments. As you know, when I push myself, I feel quite close to my brother Mike. But more than that, there was a lot of camaraderie. It felt like a unique experience. I learnt that boundaries are perceptions in many ways, because there was no guarantee, obviously, of completing that or finishing it. Most people thought that it wouldn't be possible for me. Again, I'm quite competitive, so I enjoyed that about it. We were able to raise 630 grand.

• 7:32Fearne Cotton?

  Amazing.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  For charities, for Global's Make Some Noise, helping about 50,000 families. It was, it all just added up to be a really kind of monumental life experience for me. But I guess on top of that, in the final days, I realised I was doing a lot with my life professionally that I didn't love necessarily. I had a lot of podcasts at the time. They were all kind of humorous in nature. I love having a sense of humour, I think. But they weren't particularly kind of helpful. Like, I guess I looked at it as, do I see myself doing this when I'm 50? I'm 37 today. I believe that to be really happily involved with the things that you're doing,

• 8:17Speaker 02

  or making, or creating, or putting out, you need to love it to the point where, you know, you can just crack on and do it, you know, for years and years to come. I think that's a nice way of looking at work, isn't it? You know, being comfortable with it. And I don't know, I loved working with Vogue. I loved working with Jamie. But there was just something about those shows that felt a touch surface level in terms of content. Kind of I'd come in and it would just be super light and quite funny and that was absolutely fine. But I felt like I wanted to go into a more serious and perhaps helpful space. I actually spoke to Jake Humphrey when I was in the desert. He's a good friend of yours as well.

• 8:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  And I spoke to Jake and I just said, you know, I'd love to build something that really matters to me. You know, where we explore human potential or where we look at how we can untap more of our potential. And we started having meetings and here we are and that's how Untapped came to be. It was born in the desert. I really care about that project. I love doing it. And yeah, so I don't know, just a lot, a lot sort of changed, but mostly that I feel that more is possible. You know, I just, I had a really super time.

• 9:29Fearne Cotton?

  Life feels more limitless perhaps.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I also, you know, you feel very alive when you're doing these challenges. I think, you know, people who are kind enough to pay attention to what I do sometimes ask, you know, why, why push yourself to those extreme limits? And it's kind of, does make me feel alive. It's a real adventure every time.

• 9:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  And it's a kind of, the highs and lows are an incredible thing to witness and be a part of. The camaraderie, as I say, is great. We're about to start our latest one, which is a full Ironman distance tradle on one in every continent. We start in London, then go to Arizona, Cape Town, Perth, Dubai, Rio and Antarctica. And we're trying to do that in 21 days.

• 10:12Fearne Cotton?

  Which would beat the record by, yeah, four years. That's insane. Yeah.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  But like, I think it's all, I see it as quite, we're raising money again this time for James's Place, which is a male suicide prevention charity, the founders of which are fantastic. I had them in Untapped the other day, Claire Wentworth Stanley and her son Harry. And they were just phenomenal and the work they do is so amazing. So it gives the whole thing purpose as well as wanting to explore my own limits.

• 10:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  I get to use my platform, I suppose, to raise money to make a real difference to men in crisis. So there's a lot going on with it each time.

• 10:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  It's not just some.

• 10:53Fearne Cotton?

  There's not one single focus.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:55Fearne Cotton?

  The adventure part of it, I find so interesting. So this week, last week, I don't know what day of the week it is today, I went to the Royal Geographical Society to watch a talk. My really good friend, Arlen Kager, who you would actually love, he's a Norwegian explorer in his sixties. He was the first man to do the North Pole, the South Pole and Everest unaided.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 11:14Fearne Cotton?

  On the planet.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 11:15Fearne Cotton?

  Like, he's made history, he's full of amazing stories. And he did this hour-long talk mainly about North Pole expeditions. And it was absolutely fascinating. But right at the end, he was talking about adventure being so important because if we sink into the mundanity of life, which we all have to, you know, for large periods of our life, whether it's child rearing, or you're going to work, you've just got to earn a living, whatever, a lot of it is mundane. But I think some of the time we go, I'll do an adventure in the future, or like, when I've retired, I'll start living. And he said, what you don't want to do, obviously, is get to, hopefully, a ripe old age and look back and go, oh, that was life.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:57Fearne Cotton?

  That was all life. And I, and I was just waiting for the moment where I could start living. And that's why I admire these big challenges, because it is you taking life by the reins and saying, I'm going to live life to the max right now. I'm not going to delay it and put it off. Do you have that sort of sense of urgency, do you think, naturally?

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I completely agree with everything you've said. I mean, you know, I, I feel that we're probably here once. And, you know, it is a privilege to be able to go and do these things. You know, I think when you look at my life, I, I am lucky, right? I'm in a fortunate position to be able to, to work and even turn these things into work and be backed by brands to be able to put them on. Like, you know, I'm in a, not a unique position, but a lucky position.

• 12:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  To be able to take the time to do this kind of thing. So. Going and doing a twenty one day expedition, you know, to raise money for charity is not something that people can just do, generally speaking. So I feel super fortunate, genuinely, to be able to to be the person to do that and hopefully raise significant funds doing it. But yeah, I've always been a lover of of life. You know, I've I've I've loved my life for as long as I can remember. You know, that doesn't mean to say that we haven't had the odd pepperings of of bad times, obviously losing Michael and numerous other things. I think it's not possible to constantly be happy. It's not always possible to to be to feel motivated to go out and do the things you want to do. You know, I I I keep a pretty balanced view of that. But, you know, I think if you're able

• 13:30Speaker 02

  to break out of that mould, particularly if you don't like the mould that you're in.

• 13:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  I think it's really important.

• 13:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  You know, I had a number of, I've had a number of different jobs over the years. I worked in the city for a while, mostly because I felt that my family were proud of my brothers, but not necessarily proud of me, because I was always an attention-seeking party boy who who, you know, drank to excess on a pretty much daily basis. And my brother James was always this beautifully, morally correct, high-achieving person who was so different to me. And and that created this big gap between us. And so I naturally wanted to be more like him. So I would copy him, you know, even though I didn't really feel like copying him. And, you know, ended up working in the city for for three and a half years, hated every single day of it, you

• 14:18Speaker 02

  know, just because you, I felt like that's what I had to do. So, you know, you just did the, you know, being on the tube every single morning at six A M. Normal stuff, not not a problem. But I didn't love the, I didn't ever see a future in it.

• 14:31Fearne Cotton?

  Wasn't for you.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Kind of pointless doing it, you know.

• 14:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. How much of that knowing that your parents may have approved more of your siblings still drives you today in these challenges? Any of it?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little, a little bit. I suppose. I think, I think, you know, I have a really small group of people in my life, by choice, really. I I know a lot of people and love a lot of people, but, you know, people I really care about, who I jump in front of a car for, pretty, pretty.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Not many people, you know, my, my wife, my family, my kids, uh, my parents, my brother, you know, a lot, a lot of core family. And then maybe three or four close friends, you know, and, and I, and I like it that way. I think those who you really love being proud of you, for me, is, is a big driver, you know, I think. It's funny coming from a reality TV background where everyone has an opinion of you.

• 15:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Because you have to kind of monitor that in, in, in, how, how should I say it? It's quite easy to fall into the trap of wanting to be liked by everyone.

• 15:33Fearne Cotton?

  Impossible.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  You know, and in my particular case, I went completely the other way of that, you know, when we were filming Made in Chelsea. I cared so, on the surface, I cared so little about what other people thought, that you behave in ways that you know are preposterous in order to create. You know, drama for a TV show that you're in. And, and then you live with that for a bit. And so at the end of the day, I guess. When would it have been? Couple of years ago, maybe. I look back at it and I was like, who, whose opinions do I really value, right? My brother's opinion, my wife's opinion, my parents' opinion, and may, maybe another handful of opinions in the world. And so just let's, let's behave in ways that are admirable for them and for yourself.

• 16:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  You know, I, I think you're never gonna please everyone.

• 16:17Fearne Cotton?

  You can't. It's absolutely, and actually what you end up doing is diluting your personality. Like to fit everybody and you can't, there'll always be someone that is pissed off, doesn't like you. I feel exactly the same, you know, certainly for. The majority of my broadcasting career before I started podcasting, which I feel is maybe. More of an experiment where people come to you because they like what you do. When you're on the BBC or ITV, you're on, you're in someone's front room. They've put the channel on and you're there, you know, there's sort of little choice. So. That to me felt like a bit of a trap, like how do I get everybody to like me? This feels impossible. And I think towards. The latter part of my broadcasting career, that's where I started to.

• 17:00Fearne Cotton?

  Just sort of become as vanilla as I could to not rock the bow or be too anything. I don't wanna be too much, too loud, too enthusiastic. And actually, sometimes I am really enthusiastic, or I am, or I do laugh too much, or whatever. And it's like, oh, I, I just can't care anymore. It's too draining, it's too draining. And all you can do is be the best version of yourself, whatever that is. And like you say, worry about the small pool of people that you actually do give a shit about.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's there's nothing better than than feeling that you're doing the right thing by them. Yeah. And I think if you, if in my particular case, you know, I I lived with a lot of shame when I was drinking excessively. You know, I interviewed Ulrika Johnson and. Yeah, that's amazing. Well, thank you, but I I thought it was amazing as well, not not my part in it, but her. She was great. Her honesty, her openness, her candidness, and actually that interview came about because BBC News, I think it was, read an excerpt of her essay that she wrote about being sober for a year and and her experience almost exactly mirrored mine. Really? Wow, yeah. About kneeling in a cupboard underneath the stairs, having shots of rum in the morning,

• 18:11Speaker 02

  out of sight, out of view from everyone, knowing it's the wrong thing to do. And I've I've been there with that, you know, having shots of whiskey or tequila in the morning, you know, just like putting a bottle somewhere that, you know, nobody ever goes in the house and just kind of wandering down there and having a quick shot in the morning. You know, it's terrible behaviour, you know, I'm a father and well, I mean, less so. Uh, it was kind of just thinking about that. I'm a father of three and therefore I would like to avoid that behaviour now if I can. That kind of behaviour was pre-kids, but it's kind of, I I I associated so much with, I I I really, it really resonated with me. So I reached out to her and I said, please, can we talk about this on my show? Because because, you know, I've had the identical experience to you and it would be an amazing opportunity to be able to to talk about it.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  And what came out of it was was this deep sense of shame and and this and carrying around the shame and and the lies that come with it, you know, like, have you been drinking today? No, of course I haven't. And you kind of like, it's you're almost, you know, you know that either the drink or the smell or something has has has given it away, but you feel so embarrassed about the fact that you've had this early drink that you kind of immediately lie about it. And and you're lying to the people who who love you the most because some random person is not really gonna care. They don't love you enough to ask that question. So I don't know, it was it was just, it was an interesting, I can't really remember what we were talking about.

• 19:33Fearne Cotton?

  Who cares? It's very interesting. I'm interested in the shame part, right? You know, we talk quite a lot about shame here. We had a really great interview recently with Charlie Macksey and a lot of it was about shame, not to do with alcohol, it was to do with just sort of general shame that so many of us carry it. I carried it around for years and I'm slowly unpicking that. Do you still feel it today, even though you're not drinking excessively and drinking in the morning? Have you managed to move through it, get through it?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so gladly that brings me back to what I just forgot. So it's perfect. No, I don't feel a sense of shame anymore.

• 20:08Fearne Cotton?

  That's amazing.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  And that ended with the 30 marathons. So like the crossing the finish line that day on the 27th of August last year, a lot of that shame vanished kind of in that moment.

• 20:23Fearne Cotton?

  Because what? You proved yourself that you were better than you thought?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, just I don't know what it was about that moment. It was just kind of like from the shots of whiskey in the morning to completing a world first, you know, on quite a big stage, you know, we'd handed up a fair amount to the point where failure was.

• 20:42Fearne Cotton?

  Would have been so bad.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, exactly. I don't mind failing either, but it's like, it was actually, I put quite a lot of pressure on myself with that one because, you know, we'd done press and PR and a big fundraiser and we'd raised loads of money and it was kind of like, if I roll my ankle on the first day, this is gonna suck so badly. And I had niggles on the first day that I'd never felt before and the first day was probably the hardest day and I was thinking, fuck, like, you know, like, I can't do another 29 of these. And anyway, thankfully, you know, said a few prayers to Mike, et cetera. Everything just like loosened up and became easier, thank God, because 29 days of day one, another 29 days of day one, wouldn't have been possible. But anyway, there was this, it was a real sense of achievement, you know, and for somebody who has felt a lot of shame and who.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  In reality, hadn't achieved much.

• 21:33Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I've heard you call your previous, your past self, a loser.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I did feel like a loser. And I think, you know, you can beat yourself up all you want. You can't change the past and I'm delighted with my past in a way because it's brought me to the person I am today and I'm far happier with who I am today than I was then. And there's plenty left to go, you know, I love learning, I love growing, I love, I love life as an experience. And I think it's interesting to hit those moments where you feel like a loser and you feel shit about your behaviour and, you know, I remember this one night, I drank a bottle of whisky and, and, you know, I was calling friends to see if they wanted to come over. I was on my own. Vogue was away filming something, working, doing really well, you know, being this person that everyone adores and everyone loves.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  And I just felt like a fucking loser, like I felt like a fucking loser, like, and I knew that I would lose her as well if I lose her or lose her, if I carried on, but I kind of carried on anyway. And, and I called, I was calling my friends and like, you know, slurring down a phone, do you want to come round? Like, everyone just saying, no, mate, like, it's Tuesday night or whatever. And eventually, one of my friends came around and took one look at me and put my arm over his shoulder, walked me to my bedroom, lay me down and left.

• 22:48Fearne Cotton?

  That's a good friend.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Well, at the time, I was just like, what has just happened? Like, this is so embarrassing. So when you take feelings like that and moments like that in your life to then cross this finish line, having lost 11 kilos, you know, hammering through the Jordanian desert for 30 straight days to, you know, to, to make a big difference for kids who really need it. Of course, it's this big feeling of like, I did it and I knew I can do it and I've done it, you know? And, and like, that feeling was, was one of the best feelings of my life, you know? Aside from having children, meeting Vogue, you know, I mean, just like a personal experience.

• 23:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  You know, it was, it was tremendous.

• 23:31Speaker 03

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 24:02Speaker 06

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween!

• 24:10Speaker 06

  And you guys know, we don't do Halloween by halves.

• 24:13Speaker 07

  Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  We've got a spooky hotline caller.

• 24:25Speaker 07

  An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert.

• 24:28Speaker 06

  And your tarot card dialers.

• 24:30Speaker 07

  Listen to our Halloween specials, search for The Girl's Bathroom.

• 24:40Fearne Cotton?

  So when you're in that frame of mind where you feel like a loser, and I'm not saying any of this with judgment, we've all had moments that we can look back and we can regret, or we know we've made shitty decisions, or whatever it might be. I think what you just said is really important. Learning to find peace with that earlier version of yourself is integral to find self-compassion today. If we're... I used to bury old versions of myself, like not looking la la la la la, like all the era where people used to put in magazines, fern, cotton, rock chick. I'd be like, bleh. Like, I couldn't even think about that version of myself. I've created this sort of like weird gargoyle-esque creature with like black eyeliner and like rocky hair and a leather jacket. I'm like, I reject you. And actually, no, I can't.

• 25:23Fearne Cotton?

  Like, I have to go, thank you for all the things you did that have led me to where I am today. And the more I rejected her, the more I found it so difficult to like myself today. And I think that integration of the old version of yourself with the one today... Is so important. It's not like I'm a better version today. It's like, no, this is, that's the best I could do at that time. And that's really important. But when you're in that frame of mind and you feel like a loser and you're like, everything's going wrong. Obviously, it's very easy to slip into victim mentality. Like, my life is bad, or I'm drinking because of this, and it's this person's fault, or there's some level of blame.

• 26:04Fearne Cotton?

  It's very hard to get out of that. What was the wake up call that switched your mindset?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Blame is a really good word. Most people who feel like they're suffering blame somebody else. Uh, and that's a really important point.

• 26:18Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Um, I did that when I had an agent who you will no doubt know called John Noll.

• 26:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  He was hilarious. Like, I love John Noll. I genuinely get a kick out of, you know, bumping into John Noll every so often. I think he's, I think he's a wonderful man and we've had, we're no longer working together. But um, I have a deep respect for him because he's brutally honest. And he says it how he, how it is. And he, he's just, he's a legend. I genuinely, I think he's amazing. He said to me one day, you're drinking too much. And I'm struggling to get you work because you're drinking like a fish. And I, you know, I go straight to, well, maybe he's a shit agent. He's not a shit agent. Obviously, he's looking after tons of like, you know, like the equivalent of A-list talent over here. Anyway, long story short, he sent me to see this guy, Chip Summers, who specializes in addiction.

• 27:08Fearne Cotton?

  I've met Chip.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 27:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, through Davina.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. He was very helpful to Davina as well. And I went to see him. I didn't have a drink the night before on purpose, just because I wanted to, I wanted Chip to report to John that there was nothing wrong with, with me.

• 27:21Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  You know, John was wrong type thing. And I walked into Chip's office and he goes, he goes, you reek of whiskey. And I was like, haha, like, no, I don't. I haven't had a drink type thing. And he was like, when was the last time you did drink? I was like, yesterday, you know, during, during the day. And he was like, you must be drinking a lot. I was like, I drink every, he was like, do you drink every day? I was like, I, I drink most days. And he goes, oh, yeah, uh, he goes, big problem, big problem. I was like, no, no, it's kind of, it's all right. Like, I do just fine. And he was like,

• 27:55Speaker 02

  I'm gonna have to tell the next person that comes in this room that I haven't been drinking because you smell so bad.

• 27:59Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was like, okay. And we started having a chat and I just, I really liked Chip. And anyway, long story short, I did six months of total abstinence and it was one of the best six months of my life. Like, I just, I just loved it.

• 28:12Fearne Cotton?

  Very hard at first?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Um, not, not as hard as I thought it might be.

• 28:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Like, I, because it doesn't take long to realise how nice it is to have a clear mind and be free of alcohol. And there was a specific relationship with Chip where I wanted, I wanted to impress him. You know, like, like it became this thing where we agreed to meet every week at the same time, so there was seven days between the meeting, seven days in a week.

• 28:39Fearne Cotton?

  You're gonna say Craig Davidson.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And he said, and every time I would show up bright and bushy tails, you know, we'd agreed to do another seven days and, and, and it became this thing that even if I felt like having a beer, I'd be like, oh no, I really wanna be able to have that moment with Chip again.

• 28:54Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  You know, and, and it was great and really cool and, but I, I would blame John, I would blame others, I would blame Mike's death, I would blame all kinds of stuff, you know, like my, my lack of empathy today comes from all kinds of things, but, but it's, you know, it's taking that blame away from others, it's very rarely other people's fault that you're feeling a certain way. And in the rare occasion of somebody doing something that's so terrible that it has a dramatic effect on you, which is obviously, you know, they have an impact on you, usually these feelings of, you know, dread and pain are coming from something within yourself.

• 29:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  And blaming others is an easy way out.

• 29:39Fearne Cotton?

  So do you know where your pain was coming from? If you're not to blame circumstance or other people, what was forcing you to drink every day?

• 29:49Speaker 02

  I wasn't forced to drink every day. I enjoyed it firstly, and I knew what I was doing. It's only really in the in the kind of last days in the lead up to going right, like this has to end. Where I did feel a lack of control, you know, where where it was more kind of like, oh, God, I know it's a bad idea to have a drink now, but I'm. I can't stop myself, you know, and that's what you hear about an A A and this lack of ability to control. Things and and being powerless over your actions. I actually, at the risk of sounding controversial, kind of disagree with. That as a as a as not as a not A A as a model, but this lack of control. I I believe. Deep down, we have an ability to control the way that we behave. That I believe to be true.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  A A helps millions of people save millions of lives, but this this idea that you have absolutely no power over what you put in your mouth. It doesn't it it's never sat very well with me, but that's because I suppose I like to think that I am in control.

• 30:47Fearne Cotton?

  Do you believe you're an addict?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I don't. It's it's I think I think it's not a great word, to be honest. Because I think you hear the word addict, you know, you think of somebody on a park bench. You know, who hasn't slept in days and he's just waiting for a fix. That that's how I picture an addict even. I think it I think it's pretty complicated, to be honest, and I think it's quite. An unhelpful label. People who even may feel that they are addicts. Tends not to seek help because they don't want to label themselves an addict. Do I have an addictive nature? Absolutely. Like, am I addicted to drugs and alcohol? No, because I can go.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  You know, I can go years without drinking, and I have done. You know, I recently did seven months of no drinking. It's my wife's fortieth birthday party tonight. I'll probably have a couple of drinks.

• 31:40Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's her fortieth tonight. Oh, happy birthday, Vogue.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  But do you know what I mean? Like, I I I have a different relationship with it now. And actually, coming back to your question about shame, which is really interesting. I know that tonight I'll probably have two or three margaritas and then I'll pump the brakes and I'll stop because I know what happens if I don't.

• 31:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  I have kids to look after, I have businesses to run.

• 32:02Fearne Cotton?

  Hangover with kids is no joke.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  But I am able to do that, which is, which is great because, you know, there was a point in my life where I I really felt like I might not be able to do that. And that total abstinence might be the only route for me. And I think, I think total anything like on off is is a shame, you know, I think if you can, if you can eat really healthily, eat unhealthily sometimes, it's obviously better than, you know, always eating unhealthily. I see alcohol as similar to food, by the way. So like, you know, obviously I do, I do an awful lot of training and, you know, I try and live a really fit, healthy life, but I'll eat a really shit meal every so often.

• 32:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  That's kind of similar to having a beer to me.

• 32:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, just finding the balance in it. So has some of that addictive nature moved to the world of challenges? Is that the new addiction, pushing yourself? Yeah.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I, I think you're, if you are the kind of person that, that has had problems with, with drink or drugs, and if you're able to stop drinking and taking drugs, you will want to channel that energy into other things, whether that be, you know, kids, if you have them, business, if you, if you wanna start one, fitness, gymming, you know, lifting weights. You will find that you want to channel all of this fresh energy into something else. People say that to me like it, like it's an insult, not you, but like, you know, I, I have people sometimes saying, oh yeah, well, like, you know, you only run this much because, you know, you don't drink anymore. So now you're addicted to running. It's like, yeah, so what?

• 33:25Fearne Cotton?

  It's kind of great.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so I don't really care if I'm really into pushing myself or if I'm addicted to pushing myself. Those things are the same to me. You know, I'm obsessed with lots of things.

• 33:37Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. How are you on the flip side with deep rest? Because all of us need it, probably more than we care to believe. I at the moment feel so tired and I know I've been sort of juggling a lot with the kids and work and pushing myself and I'm, I'm in this habit, or I have been the last few weeks of, you know, if I've got a moment before school pickup or whatever, to have a bath or rest, I'm like, No, you've got emails to do. You must complete the tasks. I'm like a robot. And I need to have like two days of nothingness and I'm gonna allow myself to do that this weekend.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  You must do it.

• 34:12Fearne Cotton?

  I know, but it's so, I think if you're used to pushing yourself, pushing yourself, go, go, go. I love doing, you know, I am a real doer and I have to really force myself to stop and go, no, you're allowed to like sit and watch a shit film for a bit or just do absolutely fuck all. I find it mentally sometimes really hard to get myself to that place. Are you good at giving yourself a break?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:37Fearne Cotton?

  You are?

• 34:37Speaker 02

  I am quite good at that, yeah. So Vogue's not, Vogue is the same as you.

• 34:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  You know, we're both pretty busy and Vogue, Vogue, if Vogue has a day off, she'll like reorganise all the kids' clothes.

• 34:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love doing that.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, do you?

• 34:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  You couldn't pay me. I'm not messing about.

• 34:56Fearne Cotton?

  I feel so mentally cleansed after a cupboard clear out.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Really?

• 35:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so she's pretty similar, but you'll never catch her just like sitting down, reading a book.

• 35:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:08Speaker 02

  She reads at night and we get into bed and stuff, but um, and stuff, we get into bed at night, like everyone. Yeah, yeah, but uh, but no, she is um, she struggles with that. I think she feels, she gets like mum guilt and guilt during the day if she feels like she should be working when she's not. The reality of my situation is, you know, I, I have a few businesses and obviously right now, at this particular time of talking to you, I've got, I've got a ton going on. We've got Untappd stuff, Cleanco stuff, new formulations coming out, new fundraiser happening. Uh, Untappd's going really, really well. It's exciting and interesting. Lots of mistakes being made across both of those businesses. But that's, that's great fun and important. You know, travelling around, interviewing people. We've got um,

• 35:51Speaker 02

  you know, plenty happening. Project Seven, obviously, with the fundraiser for James's place, but also these seven man distance triathlons and all the training that comes with that. So my, my plate is as full as I want it to be.

• 36:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's insane.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  I could fill a twenty four hour day with twenty four hours of work.

• 36:05Fearne Cotton?

  So where's the rest?

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Um, I ordinarily, it's a strange time to be asking me this, cause normally I sleep for eight hours roughly every night.

• 36:15Fearne Cotton?

  Pretty good sleeper.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  I'm the kind of guy that I sleep better than my children, you know, I put my head down and I'm asleep.

• 36:21Fearne Cotton?

  Lucky sod.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  No, I know, really lucky. The last four nights, it's come out of nowhere. I suddenly understand what people are talking about.

• 36:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  It's so weird.

• 36:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  So four nights ago.

• 36:32Fearne Cotton?

  You can't get to sleep?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Four nights ago, had a normal work day. I'm not under any unusual amounts of stress, by the way. Like, I am, like, I have a lot that could be deemed stressful happening all of the time.

• 36:43Fearne Cotton?

  But you're coping.

• 36:44Speaker 02

  I am quite used to it, though.

• 36:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Like, like, I do find pleasure in, you know, pushing it and being on the brink of pain, or whatever you wanna call it, or, you know, all these shows. But like, I'm, I'm kind of, like, it doesn't bother me at all, really. I, I'm pretty calm about the whole thing. Get into bed, and I lay down, and I'm just like, I'm wa- like, wide awake. I shut my eyes, go to sleep, normal stuff. Like, it's almost like when I shut my eyes, like, they're still open, right?

• 37:11Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I know that feeling.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Genuinely, like, you may as well not even try.

• 37:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  And I'm trying to go to sleep.

• 37:15Fearne Cotton?

  It's almost more effort to have them climb.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you're making an effort to shut your eyes. And I was just like, okay, so this is strange. So I read a book for about, like, half an hour. Same thing. I was like, what is going on? Put the TV on, watch, watch something, I'm lying there, and it's now like eleven thirty.

• 37:32Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, so late.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  And I'm just like, what is going on? Like, normally I'd be like, flatlining by eleven thirty, right?

• 37:39Fearne Cotton?

  You're literally R E M, you're there, yeah.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  And, and, no, nothing. I fell asleep at four, couldn't sleep, and I'm like tossing and turning and getting a bit, and Vogue's literally just like, babe, like, will you like go and sleep downstairs? I was just like, go and what downstairs? Sleep? That's the thing, that's the thing of the past. Anyway, so like, literally, god, so I went downstairs, nothing on, no screens, nothing, pitch black room, I'm lying in bed, and I couldn't sleep for hours. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? Like, what is happening? Like, like, like, no alcohol, nothing. I'm just like, okay, so anyway, so I've eventually fallen asleep at four, had to get up at six, slept for two hours. And I was just like, that was the weirdest thing that's ever happened to me. Like, obviously I've had sleepless nights when we used to go out all the time.

• 38:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and you've got newborn babies and all the usual stuff, yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Nothing was getting in my way at all, right? I hadn't had late coffee, nothing, zero. Same thing happened the following night. So like, I had a full day of work and I got into bed.

• 38:31Fearne Cotton?

  I hate this for you.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I got, I know, I, I've still not shaken it properly. So I got, I got into bed and I was just like, oh my fucking god, I'm not gonna be able to fall asleep again. And like,

• 38:39Fearne Cotton?

  Because you've got the paranoia about it.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  I know, I know. And it's, it's, it's terrible. But I used to be that guy when people would say this to me and I'd be like, mate, just shut your eyes and go to sleep. Like, shut up. Like, like, like, literally. No, it, it's a thing.

• 38:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  It's a thing. It's a thing.

• 38:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  And, and I, I had a better night. I still, I still fell asleep at about one and got up at six.

• 38:57Fearne Cotton?

  What's going on?

• 38:58Speaker 02

  So this is two hours, then five hours. And then, um, then I, I had to go up to Liverpool. I was interviewing Mike Murray, who's an amazing CEO, by the way. He's the CEO of Fraser's Group, youngest CEO in the FTSE 250 or something.

• 39:09Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Pretty impressive dude. Uh, and I interviewed him and in the hotel room, again, couldn't sleep. And like, I got some sleep, I got six hours sleep again, but like, I don't like this.

• 39:19Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  I'm not into it at all.

• 39:20Fearne Cotton?

  No, what's going on?

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna speak to a therapist. It's the weirdest thing because I would understand if you were lying in bed and your mind was like racing or you were really worried about something or really nervous. I'm not nervous about anything. I'm not frightened about anything at the, at the moment. I don't have any like fear of something happening. It could be the Ed Gein Netflix thing.

• 39:41Fearne Cotton?

  What's that?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  The Ed Gein story on, uh, the monsters.

• 39:46Fearne Cotton?

  Oh no. See, I can't watch stuff like that.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  No, no, but, okay. So for the listeners, if you haven't wa- okay, so they, they made the Dharma documentary. I, I love a serial killer documentary.

• 39:54Fearne Cotton?

  I don't.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  Oh, I love it. Like, I'm kind of fascinated by it.

• 39:58Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  I, uh, so.

• 39:59Fearne Cotton?

  No, I can't even watch anything sort of mildly negative. It needs to be either factual and sunny or funny or romantic. Otherwise, no, thank you.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Okay, so I could watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and go straight to bed. Genuinely, couldn't care less, right? Vogue is the opposite. Like, if she even, if she saw a single frame of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, she wouldn't sleep all night.

• 40:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Okay, me and Vogue should be married.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Yes, I think so. I'm, I'm getting a vibe that you're very similar.

• 40:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, and the Ed Gein story, sorry, this probably isn't in your notes or relevant to the interview, but it is worth mentioning. It is the most, it, it, I've never seen anything like it on, on, on a screen in, in my life. I've never seen anything like it in my life. I don't understand how it is legal. Like, it comes obviously within age 18, but eight, 18 is far too young to be watching this. I think you need to be 50, right, to watch this thing. It's the most depraved thing I've. Ever seen, the gore in it is remarkable. Like, like, you think they'll cut away. They don't, they don't. You see the whole thing. He's a, like, full necrophilia scene, everything.

• 41:07Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  No, no, no, it's, it's.

• 41:09Fearne Cotton?

  So it could be that.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I think it may, it might, I don't, like, I don't even want to admit it, but I think it might be. But like, I.

• 41:18Fearne Cotton?

  You can't unwatch it.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Sometimes I'm lying in bed and I'm like, when I can't sleep. And I just see like a chainsaw going through someone's head.

• 41:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, okay.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  And I'm like, okay, maybe it's.

• 41:27Fearne Cotton?

  You shouldn't have watched it. I think you shouldn't. Can we watch like lots of Emily in Paris to cancel it out or something?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  He's gorgeous. Not as Ed Gein, obviously, but Charlie Hunnam is, I mean, you have the power to get Charlie Hunnam in here. You should, he's, he's, he's phenomenal. I love Charlie Hunnam.

• 41:42Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, I, I don't know what to say about this sleep thing.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Tremendous performance.

• 41:47Fearne Cotton?

  We need to talk, we need to talk to a therapist about this.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 41:49Fearne Cotton?

  Because it's not good. Before your challenge, this is not ideal for you. This is not ideal.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  No. I went and hammered a particularly hard track session the other day, like one that would put me in bed early type thing. Like a real, I can't go any further.

• 42:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Like vomiting at the end of the session, even though I didn't have anything to throw up type thing. Like, like full, full.

• 42:08Fearne Cotton?

  Full pelt.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Full pelt rinsing on purpose, right? Just, just to make sure that my body went, ah, got into bed.

• 42:15Fearne Cotton?

  Nothing.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 42:16Fearne Cotton?

  Spencer, okay, we're gonna sort this out. Look, I, I sleep better now. I'm still not great, but back in the day, I didn't sleep. I just used to lie there all night worrying about everything. And like you say, closing my eyes was full of effort. It was like laborious to shut my eyes. It can be fixed.

• 43:08Speaker 07

  Dana Fletcher. And I'm Marco Burchella. And this is Boots Off. We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans. And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you. This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure. The adventures that lead to adversity. And how life can be one big adventure in itself. Listen every Thursday, just search for Boots Off.

• 43:44Fearne Cotton?

  We had your great friend and my very good friend Jamie Laing on the podcast and we had such a lovely chat. We talked about Made in Chelsea and we talked about everything that I said a moment ago. Me trying to not reject earlier versions of myself. He feels like he's at a place where he can own the Made in Chelsea thing. He's like at peace with it, feels quite celebratory about it, actually, that it's been a big launchpad for him. He assumed you wouldn't feel the same.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  I regret parts of it, not that you can change it. And also, I see life slightly differently to Jamie. I think that if people give their full attention to something, that they can achieve things regardless. I don't see it as a huge launch platform for me, to be honest. I see it as something that I've had to almost dispel. So I don't look back at it wholeheartedly with dread. You know, like I really enjoyed the first couple of series, for example. I thought it was original and interesting and new and, you know, and fun and cool. And actually, the scenes were quite real and it was, it all felt cool.

• 44:53Speaker 02

  And also, obviously, it was very successful, you know, which at the time came as a surprise, I think, to us. You know, genuinely, I believed it'd be great to do a series of this and then go and be a TV presenter.

• 45:06Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Because, you know, it'd be great to get a face out there a bit, you know, experience a bit of fame potentially. And then when the thing crash and burns.

• 45:13Fearne Cotton?

  Come and nick my job.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  You know, I'll, I'll come and, and, and, you know, try and present this morning or something. I don't know, you know, that, that was the thought process at the time. Not that I would ever have had the skill to present this morning, but that was the thought process at the time. And yeah, I don't know, it kind of, it kind of grew arms and legs and it became, it was pretty toxic, I have to say at times. You know, because there was a lot that you were saying, doing that didn't feel real at all. You know, and all of a sudden, that's strange because some people think it is real. Some cast members think it is real and others know it's not. And it just feels like this big disjointed, quite toxic machine then where people's lives and feelings and emotions are being tugged on by producers, you know, for your entertainment.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  And, you know, I'm really lucky to have my nature, you know, I'm pretty thick skinned and.

• 46:05Fearne Cotton?

  I think you've got to be in a show like that.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  Chuck stuff at me and it will just slide off my back, you know, if I read some insanely horrible comments about me, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, although I might nowadays.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  But then I couldn't have, I couldn't have cared less, genuinely, I couldn't, I couldn't have given a shit.

• 46:21Fearne Cotton?

  I find that fascinating because again, I care too much. I'm writing a book about this at the moment about how bothered we are about how much other people like us.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  That's amazing. That's great. I can look forward to reading that.

• 46:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm really enjoying, it's been hugely, it, it's come at the right time for me, this idea. I came up with this idea in the thick of healing from sort of people pleasing and all of this kind of thing. But I think to be on a very prominent reality TV show, it's very hard unless you've got a suit of armour on. Because you are being, I mean, I mean, any sort of one in the public eye at a young age is being hurled all sorts of commentary they might not want to hear. So you do have to learn how to sort of bat it away. Do you feel you've got more of an issue with the show itself or that version of you? Or did it accentuate that version of you maybe?

• 47:12Speaker 02

  It absolutely accentuated that version of me. I'd do things on purpose that I knew were wrong because we were filming. And then I'd kind of go back to my normal life and have dinner with my mum, you know, and just be like, hopefully a nice son to her, you know, it was kind of. The whole thing was very strange. You'd shoot an argument with someone at a bar. And if you dominated that argument and that conversation one easily, but it didn't fit the storyline, they would change it. By like, you'd rap and you'd leave. And then the other person would film saying something that they didn't really say.

• 47:43Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  To somebody else. And then they'd cut it into the scene and they'd just show a reaction shot of you not saying anything. So the the episode would come out and you'd go, what? Like, that didn't happen. So like, the whole thing is just, you know, a shame. And it was just like, as I say, it was great at times. We got to do extraordinary things. We got to travel the world and, you know, Jamie and I had had. I mean, a very turbulent time, but we spent, you know, three months living together in New York, filming Made in Chelsea, New York. Awesome experiences for young people. I'm not, I'm not whinging. And, you know, as far as biting the hand that fed me goes. I'm not, I'm not biting it. I just look back at it sometimes and think, I wish I'd I had done certain things differently.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  I think as a platform, it's a great platform. As a show, it's not the most exciting thing to to me. You know, I don't watch reality TV. And never have, right? So I personally don't really understand why you would ever engage in, oh, look at these like kids running around doing nothing. You know.

• 48:44Fearne Cotton?

  I love a bit of reality.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 48:47Fearne Cotton?

  It just helps my brain switch off big time. Like the Kardashians, I'm like, bring it on. Let me see which. Tiger is Jenna's wearing today. Let's go.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:57Fearne Cotton?

  I love it because I don't have to use my brain. I'm just like imbibing someone else's life, heaven.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  I think that's all it is, right?

• 49:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Helping you switch off.

• 49:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Bubble gum.

• 49:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, there's a place for all of it.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  That's fine. I think in the environment that we were in, it was taken very seriously.

• 49:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Storylines were really serious. And I I was more with you, just thinking like, no one cares about this. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, who cares? Like. I wasn't invited to Pinky's party. Who gives a fuck? It's not even a real party. Who cares? Like, you know, it's it's kind of like, the whole the whole thing is just a job. Like, we turn up and then we clock out, we get paid. You know, it's like, it's like, I saw it as very similar to ICAP, you know, like, I would turn up, I'd do my job, I would leave. You know, and then your real life starts. And that's that's what it was. Like, to me, it wasn't real.

• 49:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  You know, you're spending a lot of time with people that you wouldn't really spend time with. That's not a diss to them at all. They just weren't my kind of real friends, I suppose. I don't know. Jamie and I have had a long. Uh, interesting relationship, I suppose. It's a lot of people are interested in my relationship with Jamie.

• 49:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  It's, uh, we've known each other for twenty years.

• 50:02Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, twenty, twenty-two years.

• 50:05Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  So, you know, highs, lows.

• 50:08Fearne Cotton?

  Of course.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  I, I, I have a huge amount of respect for Jamie. I think Jamie is incredible at many things. Um, you know, we, we have, we have, we have had our problems.

• 50:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  As, as, as a relationship. We're like brothers.

• 50:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  So, that, that's the thing. When you're, when you're as tightly bonded as we are, you're gonna fall out, you're gonna have big fallouts like brothers do.

• 50:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  And that's the thing. This isn't some superficial relationship where you let things slide type thing, you know, we are, we are, we for many years were joint at the hip, like, you know, brothers.

• 50:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  So, that, that's, that's what brings, it's the same as, um, like married couples who have, who love each other so deeply that you have

• 50:49Fearne Cotton?

  It's up and down.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  You have these big, you know, fiery arguments that you don't have with other people. It's because you love each other so much. Because it matters, right? Like, like the, the conversation matters. Similar with me and Jamie.

• 50:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's lovely. And it's honest. And that's what we all like seeing. That's why it is interesting and people are intrigued. Hey, Spencer, before we wrap up, I would like to ask you, where is your happy place?

• 51:09Speaker 02

  Oh, um, with the kids.

• 51:12Fearne Cotton?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  I love, well, it depends. God, there are ages.

• 51:15Fearne Cotton?

  You're like, maybe not with the kids.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Actually, hang on. You, some, sometimes with the kids. Uh, no, so, so, no, honestly, when the kids are

• 51:25Fearne Cotton?

  In bed.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, asleep, yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  No, so, I, I'm trying not to bash the boys. The boys are different to my girl, right? So, Gigi is calm, loving.

• 51:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Sweet, like loves cuddling, loves kissing, comes into daddy in the middle of the night, gets on my chest, like snuggles into me.

• 51:45Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Sweet little kind of Princess Leia buns, like great big fat chops, like, you know, just, just like she, she, she genuinely is my, she's my comfort blanket. The boys are less affectionate, which is fine. They're a bit more like Vogue.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Berg isn't one for like, you know, handholdy, kissing, cuddling.

• 52:03Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, right, okay.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  We are affectionate, but like, she's, she's like, I could hold her for a good, like, few minutes in the morning, whereas like, you know, 20 seconds is probably okay for her.

• 52:13Fearne Cotton?

  Right, got you, yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Like, in the morning, type thing. Especially if we haven't brushed our teeth.

• 52:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  So, so I love, I love all of my children equally, but there is a, I have this bond with my, my daughter. I think it's fairly normal as well. You hear about the daddy-daughter thing. Like, that is a real thing. If you're, if you're a, if you're a guy listening to this who wants to have sons, like, for whatever reason, right? When I wanted to have kids, I always wanted some, I wanted three boys. I don't know why, just, it's just a thing. And we were actually told that she, she was a boy, like, I don't know why. So we had a boy and then we were having another boy, and then we found out before the birth that she was a girl. And a little part of me was like, oh, you know, I wanted my little crew of boys. She is, um, like, the fact that we have a girl is just the most, and all of my friends now who are having kids,

• 53:04Speaker 02

  who are having a girl, I'm just like, you're so lucky, because the bond is, the bond's tremendous. So, um, we snug a lot. That's, that's a happy place for me. So like, so at night, I'll hold her for a good, like, 20 minutes before bed. In the morning, even when they're like, getting ready for school, I'll quickly, I'll pick her up and put her on my chest while everyone's having breakfast, we'll just have a quick snack.

• 53:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, heaven.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Snugs is, I love a snug. I'm very tactile.

• 53:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  I love a snug. Sometimes our youngest is quite, like, it's, it's my, my seven-year-old. I've kind of missed the snug window. He's, he doesn't like a snug. He gives me his forehead.

• 53:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you won't get that now. I mean, my 12-year-old, I'm not even allowed to say goodbye at the school gates. It's just, I have to ignore him.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  I'll go for a kiss on his cheek, right, to give him a big kiss on the cheek. I just, I get, I get the forehead.

• 53:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That only gets worse.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  I don't want the forehead. Anyway, so I still have it with my daughter, so I cherish that. Happy place, um.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  St Bart's is a happy place for me.

• 53:58Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:59Fearne Cotton?

  Never been, looks gorgeous.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  It's beautiful. It's, it's kind of, it's, I've seen it in all its iterations. So, so I grew up there. So when I was, when I was six, we moved there and it was, um, nothing like it is today. It's just a kind of hidden gem in the Caribbean, all overgrown, lots of stray cats and cockroaches and, you know, palm trees, you know, that are bending over double in the wind and stuff, but it was a, a, a very special place, you know, like, and I spent a lot of my childhood on that Caribbean islands. Nowadays you go and it's, you know, all super swanky, super high end, A-listers and yachts everywhere. But it never used to be like that and both have their cool parts, but, um, I love that island. There's something about the islands that when we touch down and get out of the plane and it's thirty, the thirty-two degrees, really hot wind.

• 54:45Fearne Cotton?

  When it, when the heat hits you, there's nothing better. I love it.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  You get off and just, and that first time your feet go into the sand and stuff and just like, I, I love that island. I feel like, like it's home, like, like that's home to me. So yeah, they're a couple of happy places.

• 54:57Fearne Cotton?

  Well, they both are gorgeous and I want to wish you all the luck with your crazy next challenge.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 55:04Fearne Cotton?

  You're gonna nail it.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  Thanks so much, Van, uh, for having me on a second time. Uh, real pleasure as always and see you soon.

• 55:11Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you, Spencer. I think you are utterly brilliant and completely mad. That challenge is insane. The determination, the single focused mind on this human being is like nothing I've seen before. But I found that really, really helpful and motivating, quite frankly. If you want to donate to Spencer's Project Seven Challenge in aid of James's Place Charity, there'll be a link in the show notes for you, so do check it out. What are you doing to get that sense of adventure in your life? Mine at the moment completely involves a small kitten called Fig. She's like watching her adventure around the house. I'm living through her eyes. It's so adorable. But what's your sense of adventure? What challenges are you taking on? What does adventure mean to you? Head to our Instagram at Happy Place Official and let us know.

• 55:57Fearne Cotton?

  All right. Until next time, a massive thanks again to Spencer, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you gorgeous lot.

• 56:34Speaker 06

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween!

• 56:42Speaker 07

  And you guys know, we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 56:55Speaker 06

  We've got a spooky hotline caller.

• 56:57Speaker 07

  An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert.

• 57:00Speaker 06

  And your tarot card dilemmas.

• 57:02Speaker 07

  Listen to our Halloween specials, search for The Girls Bathroom.