Duct Tape for Your Inner Critic (Gently, of Course) | Dawn Mauricio

If your inner narrator won't give it a rest — constantly judging, narrating, or second-guessing you — you're in good company. In this live conversation from our weekly Substack sessions, Dan sits down with meditation teacher Dawn Mauricio http://dawnmauricio.com/ to explore how to work with the nonstop chatter in your mind. They dig into common pitfalls like self-judgment, overthinking, and the feeling that you're "failing" at meditation — and how small mindset shifts can turn those moments into wins. Dawn offers practical, kind, and often funny guidance for bringing gentleness and curiosity to your practice, whether your eyes are closed on the cushion or open while doomscrolling. Plus, Dan and Dawn swap tips on finding meditation community, celebrating awareness instead of berating yourself, and making mindfulness a little more doable — even when your mind won't shut up. Related Episodes: Am I Meditating Correctly? Am I Doing the Right Kind? https://www.danharris.com/p/am-i-meditating-correctly-am-i-doing?r=4o5o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=falseHow to Handle Difficult People | Dawn Mauricio https://www.danharris.com/p/how-to-handle-difficult-people-dawn-33d?r=4o5o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false Tickets are now on sale for a special live taping of the 10% Happier Podcast with guest Pete Holmes! Join us on November 18th in NYC for this benefit show, with all proceeds supporting the New York Insight Meditation Center. Grab your tickets here https://www.nyimc.org/event/great-cosmic-joke/! Tickets are now available for an intimate live event with Dan on November 23rd as part of the Troutbeck Luminary Series. Join the conversation, participate in a guided meditation, and ask your questions during the Q&A. Click here https://troutbeck.com/culture/luminaries-series-conversation-meditation-with-dan-harris-2025/ to buy your ticket! Join Dan's online community here http://www.danharris.com/ Follow Dan on social: Instagram https://bit.ly/3tGigG5, TikTok https://bit.ly/3FOA84J Subscribe to our YouTube Channel https://bit.ly/3FybRzD To advertise on the show, contact [email protected] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Dan Harris?

  This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris.

• 0:18Dan Harris?

  Happy Friday, everybody. I don't want to brag, but one of my favorite things that I've ever written is the first line in my first book, 10% Happier, which went something like this. "I wanted to call this book, 'The Voice in My Head is an Asshole.'" To me, that just perfectly encapsulates the human condition, at least for most of us. Sure, we are capable of a lot of good stuff, creativity, compassion, et cetera, but the untrained mind is often a hatchery of self-loathing, grudge-holding, judging, greed, addiction, et cetera. So what do we do about this? Today, I'm talking to the great meditation teacher, Don Mauricio. What you're about to hear is a live conversation we had on Substack a few weeks ago. We do these conversations every week now.

• 1:03Dan Harris?

  We meditate and then chop it up, including taking your questions. The idea is that meditating as a group is a great way to support your practice. There's plenty of research to back that assertion up. Plus, it's fun. You've heard me say this over and over, but you can go faster in the carpool lane. You can learn better when you have a teacher and a community. If you want to join us for these live sessions, they're every Tuesday at 4:00 Eastern, sometimes hosted by me solo, sometimes with our Teacher of the Month. If you sign up at Dan Harris, you will get an invitation to all of these sessions, and you will also get the custom-guided meditations that now come with all of our Monday, Wednesday episodes. So you should go check it out, join the party. One other thing to say very quickly before we dive in here.

• 1:45Dan Harris?

  If you want to meditate with me IRL, I've got a live taping of this podcast coming up on the 18th of November in New York City. My guest will be the comedian Pete Holmes, who's got a really serious meditation and spiritual practice. He's also very funny. This will be a benefit for the New York Insight Meditation Center. There's a link in the show notes if you want to sign up. Okay, after the break, you'll hear me in conversation with Dan Mauricio about the pesky voice in your head.

• 2:14Dan Harris?

  If you care about supporting independent media, and if you care about being a node of sanity in an insane world, there are a few quick, easy, and free ways that you can support me and my team, which I would be really grateful for. One way to do it is to sign up for my newsletter, which comes out on Monday mornings. It's a little dose of sanity in your inbox at the beginning of a busy week. The second way to do it is to follow and subscribe to the show, wherever you're listening or watching right now. That really helps. Three, share your favorite episode with a friend. This is a great and low-stakes way to connect with somebody in your orbit. And not for nothing, it also helps us grow. And all of these things take about 30 seconds, and they really do help. You will be supporting me and my team and our mission.

• 2:59Dan Harris?

  And I, as I said, would be immensely grateful. You can find everything we do at danharris.com. It's all right there. Thank you. I mean that seriously. We'll be right back with more show. If you care about supporting independent media, and if you care about being a node of sanity in an insane world, there are a few quick, easy, and free ways that you can support me and my team, which I would be really grateful for. One way to do it is to sign up for my newsletter, which comes out on Monday mornings. It's a little dose of sanity in your inbox at the beginning of a busy week. The second way to do it is to follow and subscribe to the show, wherever you're listening or watching right now. That really helps. Three, share your favorite episode with a friend. This is a great and low-stakes way

• 3:43Dan Harris?

  to connect with somebody in your orbit. And not for nothing, it also helps us grow. And all of these things take about 30 seconds, and they really do help. You will be supporting me and my team and our mission. And I, as I said, would be immensely grateful. You can find everything we do at danharris.com. It's all right there. Thank you. I mean that seriously. We'll be right back with more show.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  So, hi, folks. Really happy to be here with you live after sharing some meditations via the podcast. So, as Dan mentioned, it'll be a 10-minute meditation that'll be fairly general. So hopefully, that there'll be something in it for you that you can find some level of settling. And it's okay if you don't as well. All of it belongs. All of it is welcome. So knowing that we're gonna do a 10-minute meditation, figure out how you might wanna set up.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  A lot of us could be seated in front of our device, but it might be maybe lying down for you,

• 4:46Speaker 01

  could be looking at a window,

• 4:50Speaker 01

  might even be walking, or if you're already walking down the street, walking a little bit slower.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  For those of you who are able, you can close your eyes or turn your eyes downward. If you're driving, of course, please stay looking on the road.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  And as you make this intention to slow down, or as you already begin to slow down,

• 5:25Speaker 01

  first tune into how you're being supported here. Just like the floor holding you up, your seat holding you up.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  And can you relax into that holding?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Relaxing the body, the face,

• 5:52Speaker 01

  any bracing.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  And then simply notice whatever you notice.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  It might be sounds, whether it's close to you or from outside your building.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  It could be maybe bubbly energy from having logged on just recently.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Could be something else. Just notice what's here, and it's not about changing it, fighting it.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  And then invite your body to relax.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  You might do that by taking a few full breaths and exhaling deeply.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Then return to breathing naturally.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  But once again, notice what you notice. And for this practice, our meditation anchor will be whatever is already easy.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Whatever is already accessible.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And so whether it's pleasant or unpleasant, what do you notice? Is it sensations?

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Is it sound?

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Is it thoughts?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Whatever you notice most easily, use that as your anchor.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Following the coming and going

• 8:43Speaker 01

  of breath, of sensation, of thoughts, but choosing one of those.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Invite kindness, gentleness to be your companion, so that even though your mind might be traveling everywhere, it's okay.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Noticing that and then just starting over again.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Placing your attention once again on whatever anchor it is you've chosen.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  I might be late in acknowledging that your mind might wander.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  And that's not a problem. But instead of judging the mind for wandering, when you do notice, can you celebrate awareness or your mindfulness returning?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  So treating it like a moment of celebration instead of an opportunity to judge. You might even say, "Thank you mindfulness for returning." And then again, focus on your body, your sounds, or whatever it was you were using as your anchor.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  And then once again invite the body to relax here,

• 11:56Speaker 01

  regardless of how your practice unfolded.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Bring in that quality of ease again, maybe once more, relaxing more deeply into the chair or the ground.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  And then once again tune into the sounds, movements going on around you, whether in the same room, outside the room, outside your building.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  You can lift your gaze. If your eyes are closed, you can blink them open. And just for a few moments, take in the space around you, maybe taking in light and shape, looking around.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Maybe breathing deeply again.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  And then when you're ready, coming back to us.

• 13:47Dan Harris?

  Okay, thank you, Dawn. Appreciate that.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah, it's a great way to start.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 13:55Dan Harris?

  Yeah, I was just gonna say, start what? Literally anything.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:00Dan Harris?

  Carly writes, she went straight to her phone when she got out of the meditation. Totally normal. That's totally normal. It's such a deep habit. And the fact that you're seeing it, that's the first step to unwinding it. And having a sense of humor about it.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  And being willing to admit that in front of hundreds of people.

• 14:18Dan Harris?

  Yeah. JP writes, whenever I hear your voice, my body goes into calm down mode. Dawn, thank you.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Thank you. Someone needs to tell that to my husband.

• 14:28Dan Harris?

  So funny, people come up to me in public and say, you know, it's so funny to hear your voice in person, because I associate it with relaxation and I can see my wife rolling her eyes.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 14:40Dan Harris?

  Okay, so let me get to some of these questions. You can pop them in the chat here, but many of you submitted in advance. Here's Brian Phillips. Thank you for this, Dan. I've been looking for local Sangha or community to practice and connect with. Any tips on finding that and implementing it into my practice? What do you say, Dawn?

• 14:58Speaker 01

  I love that inclination to want to be in community because actually I taught a class earlier today and someone quoted you, Dan, and they said something like that you often say, "Don't suffer alone," or something like that.

• 15:11Dan Harris?

  It's not my expression, but never worry alone.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  That's it, yeah. And so I feel like we need that. We need the support of community. And I know that when I am in community, I definitely sit way longer or more consistently, etc. So it definitely helps. I think some areas, like, one of the easiest ways is there's this website called The Buddhist Insight Network. And this one is a little bit more Buddhist-y for sure, but there's apparently on this network, you can find a bunch of peer-led or teacher-led communities. But I think also, in your community... You bring in Dan, so many of my friends and colleagues and us teachers. And we all have or are affiliated with communities.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  And so I would say to Brian, if you're already familiar with some teachers through the podcast, to look them up, see what organizations they're affiliated with. And many of these organizations also have online offerings. And so depending on where you're located, you might be able to join in person or even some of the online stuff. But I think those are a couple of the quick and easy ways to find community. And then maybe even like putting it into the subscriber chat thread, maybe looking for others who are interested in finding community too. And then they might be able to help you out or want to even just gather with you and practice or listen to some of the podcasts together and meditations together.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  That's usually where it starts or how it can start.

• 16:42Dan Harris?

  Just to say, and I can't say too much without the people who work with me getting very mad at me. But in the not too distant future, we're gonna, I think, have tools to help you build your own sanghas or communities and connect with each other. Having said that, I would add to John's excellent advice by saying, not only can you look up your favorite teacher and see if they're leading online or in-person stuff, but also depending on where you live, there are often secular or Buddhist. So you might find a Buddhist center or a secular meditation drop-in place. Or speaking of secular, MBSR, mindfulness-based stress reduction course that you can do in person.

• 17:25Dan Harris?

  And the final thing I'll say, and this is something I've gotten into in my own life, is just creating your own.

• 17:31Dan Harris?

  I've done a couple of things in my own life where I'm just building my own little community, purely personal, and I've found that to be incredibly helpful. So.

• 17:41Dan Harris?

  All right, let's move on to some more questions. Sandy S. "Any advice on turning down the voice in my head? It's not so much about distraction, but more like narration. I can deal with recognizing stray thoughts and returning. Not easy, but to me, that is the practice. It's more about describing what I'm doing, like a voiceover that I think distances me from being in the moment. Inhale, now exhale, relax your jaw, or count to four, and so on. I'd like to deepen my practice and be less in my head and more connected with my body. Thanks for all the great guidance here." What say you, Don?

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's also really normal. We think in different ways, and some of us have a very strong narrator that narrates our thoughts or every one of our actions. And so I think what Sandy is describing is really normal. One of the things that I would suggest to Sandy is that to not demonize it, it's not bad, because even just naming what's happening in the moment is actually a form of meditation. It's called mental noting. And what we would suggest for those who like to do mental noting is to eventually start to turn down the volume on the noting. So for example, if Sandy narrates to herself inhale, but it's kind of like yelling, to

• 18:55Speaker 01

  start lowering the volume so that eventually the experience of inhaling will take just as much space as the narrating, and then eventually even more space, the experience of the inhale will take all the space eventually. And then also just to say that having no narrating, if that's supportive for Sandy, is not necessarily the goal. Some days, if Sandy's like really tired, didn't sleep well, didn't eat well, whatever, she might need to pump up the volume again on the narrator, and that'll be supportive on that day. And then another day, it's about lowering that volume. So it's kind of like about adapting it to what's needed, but ultimately, it's not wrong. It's one of the techniques that we often use and prescribe to folks, especially when

• 19:40Speaker 01

  they have busy minds.

• 19:43Dan Harris?

  Yeah, just to say a little bit more about that, in case people aren't familiar with mental noting, it's kind of the skillful use of thinking in order to connect you to your direct experience. With the breath, you might say in, out, or when you get distracted, thinking, or planning, or homicidal thoughts, or whatever it is.

• 20:05Dan Harris?

  You could just put a little mental note on your experience. And again, it is thinking technically, but it's to connect you to your sensory or mental experiences. It's in service of mindfulness. And so one of the things Joseph Goldstein talks about a lot is paying attention to the tone of the note. Be mindful. You might be noting in a way that's quite shouty or all caps or judgmental. But if you just pay attention to that, you can notice it and tweak it. And you can even make a note of the tone of the note. Oh, judgment, judgment, et cetera, et cetera.

• 20:45Dan Harris?

  Okay, Karen. Building up on what Sandy said about narration in her head during sitting practice. What I experience is self-evaluation, like having a color commentator whispering remarks about what I do if I succeed in focusing on the breath, releasing tension, et cetera. I get, oh, that went well, or the like, and it snaps me out of the moment. I struggle with self-consciousness I R L. So this is related, I'm sure.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Well, actually, it's interesting because I, in the first few years of my practice, I had a very strong judgmental mind. And then eventually, and I use this as a cue in our meditation earlier, where I said, instead of, when we noticed that the mind has wandered, instead of judging the mind having wandered, to actually celebrate that mindfulness has returned. And so for me, when I've switched the tone, as you mentioned just a moment ago, to one of celebration, it really made things fun, made me want to practice more, made me want to watch out for the next time mindfulness returns. So in a way, it like sparked my mindfulness to be way more alive and active.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  And so I'm not sure if Karen experiences the judgmental mind, but the fact that she used, oh, that went well. I mean, like, why not celebrate or enjoy that? Because I think, generally speaking, and I'm not sure if this is Karen's issue, but generally speaking, as a society, we're so hard on ourselves. And so if what comes up for her is, oh, that went well, I would say to just also maybe be mindful of how that feels to have done something well, because it's not always going to last, so enjoy it while it lasts, kind of thing. And then use that or to notice if that helps to inspire more mindfulness or inspire her practice or her to get more curious. I don't know, I kinda liked that.

• 22:35Dan Harris?

  I love it. I just got off a meditation retreat myself and one of the little tricks I've picked up over the years from great teachers, this is not an innovation, is to really celebrate the moment of waking up because there's a way in which you can compute it as just a series of failures, but failing quote unquote in meditation is succeeding. The, as many times as you get lost, you will also wake up and can you celebrate those moments? And so for me, one little mantra I'll use is, great job, welcome back.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:11Dan Harris?

  Great job, welcome back. And you can use that to tune into the fact that being awake right now feels so much fucking better than being stuck in your movie, in the, in the stories you're telling yourself about yourself and all the background drama and, and muttering about what you like and dislike and all that stuff. Just to be right here with whatever's arising in a calm, equanimous, mindful way, to be awake in this vivid reality feels so much better than being lost. And the more you can incentivize yourself to wake up because it feels good and you're not kicking your own ass every time you wake up, the more

• 23:55Dan Harris?

  you'll wake up in my experience. Another little expression you can use is a Tibetan one that Joseph taught me, amaho, which I think translates into, isn't this amazing? Isn't it amazing that the mind is aware and empty, meaning empty of self? That if you look for some core homunculus of dawn behind the scenes, you won't find her. That this experience of being alive is so mysterious that we have these minds that can take in the world and there's nobody behind the curtain pulling the strings. So just try those two things. I've gotten a lot out of them. Before I go into the next question, any reaction to the stuff that just came out of my face?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Well, actually, even just like something more immediate that- I used to take for granted was when I'd practice and I'd have pain or discomfort in my body, I would move my body, hope no one in the meditation hall saw me, and then just kind of continue on. But then I've started being really mindful, experiencing the discomfort, noticing that I want to move. I do the whole movement, but then I also make a conscious effort to be present for relief and ease. Because I don't often feel that in my practice, or I easily miss it in my day to day life. And so to really be present for that, so that it can inspire me to make more room for it as well.

• 25:22Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:24Dan Harris?

  That's great. Okay, HB asks, how do I deal with the flood of distracting thoughts that come with open eye meditation? Like while I'm walking, I'm not sure why, but I have monkey brain a lot worse when my eyes are open.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's also super normal. I don't know if this is factual, but I once heard someone say that as soon as our eyes are open, it starts to take up three quarters of our attention. And so of course, if that is true, I think whether that's the correct fraction or not, I feel like that is my experience. And so it's normal that as soon as the eyes are open, suddenly we're taking in so much of the world around us that it's easy to get pulled out into whatever we're seeing. One of the things that I like to do is just to practice naming. So we talked about mental noting a moment ago. So to practice naming what I'm seeing. So if, to use that example of walking meditation, if it's like

• 26:23Speaker 01

  birds flying by that attract my attention, but then I make up this whole story of like, oh, they're siblings and they're fighting, or you know, whatever it might be. To stop my walking, acknowledge seeing, acknowledge thinking, and then just kind of enjoy it while it's present. And then from there, keep going or to then continue walking. And additionally, what I do to kind of get used to seeing or having seeing less of this thing that could be a different part or separated from my practice is before I actually do my practice, and we did it a little bit at the end, I take a moment to look around the room and I name the colors or the objects that I see.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  And that's like a little way to tell my body like, oh, we're gonna meditate. We're slowing down so that we can start practicing soon. So I use sight and then I close my eyes or turn them downward. And then when my practice ends, I do the same thing. So I look around still so that I have a little bit of practice under my belt of what it's like to be mindful of seeing and not automatically just pulled into whatever it is I'm looking at, which then helps when we're like doom scrolling or whatever, you know?

• 27:39Dan Harris?

  On this recent retreat, Joseph was talking a lot about mindfulness of seeing. And he was saying, especially in the dining room where it, you know, it's so easy, you know, every person you look at, you have a whole story about them.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 27:53Dan Harris?

  I can hate that guy. What's he, what are those like five, what are those shoes with like toe holes in them? Like that's ridiculous. Whatever, you know, like the mind is just making all of these judgments. And it's so easy not to be mindful when you're, you know, like, wow, this is like an IRL meetup of an artisanal yogurt listserv in here. Like what this is, who are these people? And he is like, yeah, but that's because you're not mindful of seeing.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:20Dan Harris?

  And just to make the little mental note of seeing, seeing when you're moving through the world, there's so many judgments pulling you out of the moment. And if you could cut that at the moment of being mindful of seeing.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Like we're in reaction when we're not mindful, we're in reaction or that judgment all the time, no matter if it's like people or. Traffic or at the grocery store, what choice to make, et cetera. So yeah, totally. And then when we can slow down enough to be mindful of it, I think it's kind of funny to hear some of our inner dialogue, especially in the dining room.

• 28:57Dan Harris?

  Yes. So Sylvia writes, I'm listening to the conversation on the Eightfold Path on the Waking Up app between Dan Joseph Goldstein and Sam Harris. Currently, they're discussing right thought. And there's a section about compassion for people who are rather cruel for the fact that they will suffer bad karma. Currently, I'm not able to feel compassion on that front. It's rather the opposite. I feel some comfort thinking that if not in this life, in the next one, they will feel consequences for their horrible acts. I know that is not right thought. How can I work with this? What do you say, Don?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow. Heavy, heavy hitting question. I really appreciate that. One of the things, as I was listening to you read that, Dan, that comes to mind was this Thich Nhat Hanh quote that I've been really loving lately, which is something along the lines of no one person is ever our enemy. Only greed, hatred and delusion in the human mind is our enemy. And so I find when I'm faced with someone that I have a challenging view of, because I think what they're doing is inhumane, dehumanizing, violent, whatever it might be. I try to remember that quote, because I think it's easy to think the world would be better off with that person or like I want them to suffer.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  But ultimately, it doesn't really solve anything. I want them to be free of greed, hatred and delusion. And I want myself to be free of that greed, hatred and delusion. You know, and so just like listening to or just hearing you read that, that's what came to mind, Thich Nhat Hanh's quote.

• 30:33Dan Harris?

  Sam Harris said something recently on one of his podcasts that has stuck with me, which is that anger makes sense, but it's not useful. So like, it makes sense when you see something awful being done by somebody, somewhere, to be angry. But in terms of helping you respond most effectively, living with an IV drip of rage is probably not the move. What did somebody else, I think it was Arthur Brooks, who said,

• 31:05Dan Harris?

  Angry people don't change the world. It's the people joyful people change the world. It's possible to hold two ideas in the mind simultaneously. And as it pertains to the people who are doing ill, like, I don't personally gain a lot of comfort or compassion from thinking about the bad karma. I personally, I like what Father Gregory Boyle says, guy who runs Homeboy Industries, which is, I think, the world's largest organization that works with current former gang members in LA. And one of the things he says is that he doesn't look at things as good or evil. It's more like healthy or unhealthy. And so when I look at people doing patently cruel things, I can reduce my judgment quotient a little bit

• 31:50Dan Harris?

  if I think, well, this is just the behavior of an unhealthy person. And I can still take all of the same steps I would take if I hated them to counteract their bad behavior. I just don't need to be mired in the unhealthy energy of hatred. Greg says, you can resist without demonizing.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I think when we're able to not get caught in the demonizing, we're able to be a little bit more clear. And then we won't get caught up in that unskillful, unhelpful behavior. But we can act or choose wisely in a way that still uplifts some of the qualities like in the right thought, which is non-ill will or friendliness and compassion, et cetera.

• 32:33Dan Harris?

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:35Dan Harris?

  So the next question is from, I hope I'm pronouncing this right, Odile Flavia. I apologize to you if I'm mispronouncing that. It's a two-part question. I'll take the first part and then I'll give the second one to Dawn. I hope you cover some takeaways from your recent retreat. Would love to hear. Also, how does somebody who's scared of deep breaths moderate the breath into meditation?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:01Dan Harris?

  On the first part, I've said a few things about the retreat. But I'll say that the primary instruction that Joseph gave on the retreat, which I think is really helpful, was to consistently ask yourself the question, what is being known? What is being known? Which is brilliant on a couple of levels. So first, it brings you into the present moment. What is being known right now? And then it also, through passive voice, tunes you into the fact that there's no effort required to be mindful. There's no effort required to be aware of what's happening in your six senses, you know, the five senses and the mind.

• 33:44Dan Harris?

  And it points you to the fact that there's nobody here doing the knowing. It's just a mysterious process. Joseph's point was that we, we live our lives in this movie, often an unhappy movie. And this just background static of anxiety, wanting, not wanting, judging, comparing. And when you ask this question, what's being known? And all you're aware of for however long in the aftermath of asking the question is what's happening right now? Well, you've stepped out of the movie into reality. And that can be a relief if you're paying attention. So again, three benefits to this question. One, it brings you into the present moment.

• 34:27Dan Harris?

  Two, the present moment takes you out of the movie. And that is really a relief. And three, that what is being known, the passive voice of it, really attunes you to what the Buddhists would call anattah, or not self, that there isn't some separate you that you need to spend so much time building up and defending. Did what I just say make sense to you, Doc?

• 34:55Speaker 01

  Totally. And I just love that simple instruction or invitation, what is being known in any given moment? It just reminds me of when I practiced one of my, gosh, it was a long time ago, but a retreat I also had that Joseph was teaching. And I remember it was one of my longer retreats and so I was just really gung ho like I wanted to become enlightened and I was just doubling down and trying really hard and I remember he asked me so simply like something like what do you think is happening in the moment or what will happen in the next moment it's only one of the six senses and I was like oh that's

• 35:38Speaker 01

  true you know it's so which is a little bit of that reminder of like what is being known by over complicating it and looking for something specific I was missing out on the simplicity of the moment but also all that you're mentioning about like it's happening mysteriously it is happening without me even trying and so it's just something as simple as what is being known can open so much and so I just love that reminder.

• 36:04Dan Harris?

  Yes, and you don't you don't need to be on retreat to use this instruction you don't even have to be meditating just get in the habit as you're moving through the world what is being known and then as Joseph says notice how you are stepping out of the movie you're stepping out of the the often in the movie like we're we're the victim or the bad guy or where we you know we're the protagonist for sure but not often in a positive way and so oh yeah conventional reality is true uh if I look in the mirror I'll see somebody and yeah I have responsibilities but in any given moment there's only one of six things happening as Joseph says you're seeing hearing tasting smelling and and then or something's happening in the mind and you can

• 36:49Dan Harris?

  be mindful of all of those things and it's this is why they they refer to the practice as liberating and it's not just liberating at the top of the mountain when you get enlightened it's liberated right now for all of us schmoes but Odile's other question was how does somebody who's scared of deep breaths moderate breath into meditation what do you say about that?

• 37:09Speaker 01

  You know, why I love that question is because I think for so many people, their first introduction to meditation is to be mindful of the breath. But we don't talk a lot about how the breath is not the go-to for many people. There could be someone who's sick, who has trauma related to their breath for some reason, who has asthma or something like that. And so I think it's really helpful to know that the breath is a tool, but it might not be the tool that you need to use in that moment. And so for Odile, to maybe instead use sight, as we talked about, or it could be focusing more on sensations instead, maybe eventually she'll be able to be with the breath,

• 37:53Speaker 01

  but that doesn't need to be the goal, because you can use any one of the other techniques and still get all of the benefits. And also, you know, maybe it's the fact, I'm not too sure, but maybe it's the fact that Odile is trying to take deep breaths, because I think that was written, that was said. And so it's not necessarily about deep breaths either. It's just can you be mindful of your breath as it is? But sometimes when we're mindful of our breath, it's like you get shy for some people, where suddenly we can't breathe properly because we're paying attention to it. In which case, yeah, focus on the body instead, on sound, loving kindness, praises, whatever.

• 38:31Dan Harris?

  Yes. Odile, don't sweat it. There's nothing super sacred about the breath within meditation. Yes, it's sacred because it keeps you alive and it can be a great way to meditate, but there are lots of other options. I don't meditate on the breath. And so I would, again, I would not sweat it. There are so many questions we're not gonna be able to have a chance to get to, which is a bummer. But I will say, and again, I want to be careful because I don't want my team to murder me, but I do think we are heading in the direction of much more of this kind of live interaction. So happy to have all of you here live. I know thousands of you will watch it later, not live, which is also cool. Dawn, great to have you as Teacher of the Month.

• 39:16Dan Harris?

  You've done amazing work and great to have you in this, your inaugural Substack Live. Thank you very much.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Thank you. Happy to have been here. Thanks for all you do for people practicing. I think we need more people practicing. And just for there to be like, good change in the world. And I just, I'm so appreciative of all that you do with your platform, making it accessible or possible for so many.

• 39:42Dan Harris?

  Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that is really the heart of, of what we're trying to build is just the place to go if you wanna learn how to meditate, get better at it, get support, get your questions answered, meet other people who take it seriously. And so it's so cool to have you on the team. So, thank you.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  My pleasure. Thank you.

• 40:00Dan Harris?

  Peace.

• 40:07Dan Harris?

  Thanks to Dawn for hanging with me. Thanks to you for listening. Don't forget, if you sign up over at danharris.com, you can access our weekly live meditation and Q and A sessions. We do these every Tuesday at four Eastern. Subscribers also get custom guided meditations that come with our Monday, Wednesday episodes. You should sign up, danharris.com. Also, if you wanna sign up for something cool, there's a link in the show notes for that event I'll be doing on November 18th with the comedian Pete Holmes, a live taping of this podcast. Check it out. Finally, thank you to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson and Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer.

• 40:52Dan Harris?

  DJ Cashmere is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band Islands wrote our theme.

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