Gov. Wes Moore: Trans Kids, Newsom's Failures & 2028 Dark Horse | PBD #791

Maryland Governor Wes Moore sits down with Patrick Bet-David for one of the most unfiltered political conversations of 2026. A Bronze Star Army combat vet. The first Black governor in Maryland's history. A man who was polling at 1% - and won anyway. But is he the Democrat who could shake up 2028? PBD makes the case. In this episode, Governor Moore doesn't hold back. He calls Trump's Venezuela operation "a ridiculous military operation." He praises Trump's Baby Bonds while calling out what he says are illegal federal overreaches. He admits he was personally disinvited from the White House governors dinner — and to this day has no idea why. He reveals what Trump said to his face the first time they met. And when pushed on transgender kids, puberty blockers, and whether he'd support his own son through a transition — he gives an answer that will have people talking. Plus - the story nobody knows: how a young Wes Moore turned down college basketball scholarships, played against Kobe Bryant in high school, and chose the 82nd Airborne instead. ——— 🏛️ GOVERNOR MOORE: https://bit.ly/4d8CifG 🦁 THE VAULT 2026: AUG 31ST TO SEPT 1ST: https://bit.ly/4mZdLhD Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kSVkso ⁠ https://bit.ly/4kSVkso Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: ⁠https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP⁠ https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 ⁠ https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: ⁠https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj⁠ https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 🇰 KALSHI: ⁠⁠http://kalshi.com/pbd⁠⁠ http://kalshi.com/pbd⁠ 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Patrick Bet-David?

  I got a bunch of things I'm going through this saying, wait a minute. Is this guy a Republican or a Democrat? A member of the college Republicans at Valley Forge Military?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  When I ran for governor, I was not the Democrats' choice.

• 0:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you like underdog at the highest level?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  I was polling at 1% in my first poll.

• 0:18Patrick Bet-David?

  When you look at the current Democratic Party and you watch the positions they're taking, your son comes in saying he wants to transition. What do you do?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Um.

• 0:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you see Trump as your enemy?

• 0:30Speaker 01

  If you come after my people, you say something against the folks in Maryland, will I respond? Absolutely. That's my job. You can come to Maryland to learn, but don't come here to lecture.

• 0:38Patrick Bet-David?

  This is a call you guys have.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then it, but it turned into a back and forth on Twitter.

• 0:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Crime, you'll typically hear Baltimore being the top 5.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Listen, I refuse to be a governor who's just giving thoughts and prayers and offering eulogies for 8 years and not doing nothing about the violence. We're now seeing how Maryland's population is the fastest growing population we've had in Maryland in over a decade.

• 0:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Your net migration isn't impressive. You're still ranked at the same place, 45th. I don't even know if it's a fair question to ask you. You're a governor, you run a state, Newsom runs a state, he's a governor. You've been able to fix the state. He hasn't been able to fix the state. What do you think has happened in the state of California with the way Gavin Newsom's led versus the way you've led?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  I, I can tell you about what we've done in Maryland and why.

• 1:22Patrick Bet-David?

  You're gonna play it safe? You can't give me that answer. You're, you're leading all of these guys.

• 1:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Governor Wes Moore in the house. We're doing this.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  We are doing this, man. I'm so happy to see you.

• 1:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Likewise. I want to say this because I said it off camera. I want to say it on camera. So, anybody and everybody that brings up your name, who knows you, loves you. Okay, whether it's Stephen A. Smith, we're out there saying, Pat, I'm telling you, watch Wes. Watch Governor Moore. Ray Lewis, he's swear, Ray Lewis is like, I'm telling you, he's the guy. I'm telling you. So, I mean, of course, you know, when it comes on to, you know, the political side, you know, philosophies, ideology, we'll have those conversations as well. But for me, seeing guys that come up with one of the best. Stories out there. One fun fact that you may not know this. You know, we're born three days apart.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Get out of here.

• 2:14Patrick Bet-David?

  You're three, you're three days older than, you're October 15th, 78.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  He looks so much younger than me.

• 2:20Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, no, stop, stop it. And then when we look at the background of what you've done, Bachelors, John Hopkins University, first black governor in Maryland's history, paratrooper, White House Fellow under Condoleezza Rice, Captain in Army 1998 to 2014, served at the, in Afghanistan, 82nd Airborne, Southern Baptist church going, received bronze medal, you know, investment banker in New York. I got a bunch of things I'm going through this thing. Wait a minute. Is this guy a Republican or a Democrat? What do you, you, I found something from old school telling me, member of the College Republicans at Valley Forge Military, 1998 yearbook?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's funny, and, and I tell people this all the time. When I ran for governor, that I was not the Democrats' choice. The Democrats, they, there were like 11 people running, or whatever it was. And we had statewide elected officials, we had two Obama Cabinet Secretaries, we had the former head of the Democratic Party who was running for governor, and me, the guy who'd never run for office in my life.

• 3:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you like underdog at the highest level?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  True. I was polling at 1% in my first poll. I'm not voting was polling higher than Wes Moore. And so I was like the underdog of the underdog when I first started running. But I was like, but I'm not running to be, you know, to, to lead the Democratic Party. I'm not running because the, you know, I take any, any party's talking points and just swallow them. Like, I don't do that. And that's not my family's background, that's not my background. I was like, does it make sense or not? And so when I ran, I wasn't the Democratic Party's choice, but it turned out that I was the choice of the people of the state of Maryland, which is all that ever mattered to me. And that's exactly how I've tried to govern now, where it's like, you know, I'm not, I don't take my talking points from party bosses. I don't do that. It's like, does it make sense for my people or not?

• 4:09Patrick Bet-David?

  At what point when you were running for governor, did Obama call you and say, hey, we're gonna endorse you, we're gonna support? Did that call ever happen or no?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  No, that, that, that didn't happen until the general election. I never got it. I never, I, I wasn't getting big endorsements in the primary.

• 4:23Patrick Bet-David?

  So the primary, you did it all by yourself?

• 4:25Speaker 01

  No, the, the primary, we had a bunch of the established Democrats.

• 4:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, right.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Were already endorsing other people, because they'd worked with them, and they're like, they didn't know me. They're like, we've never worked with you.

• 4:35Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the breaking point? What event happened? Was there a talk, was there an event, was there a speech, was there a debate, was there a?

• 4:41Speaker 01

  You know what was interesting? You know, actually, it's interesting you said that. There was something called the Western Maryland Summit. Western Maryland is arguably one of the more conservative areas in the state of, in the state of Maryland. I'd say probably about seventy-seven percent in that area voted for Donald Trump in the last election. And there was a summit that went out there.

• 5:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Twenty twenty-four.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  In twenty twenty-four, sorry, twenty twenty-four. And they have a summit every time there's a gubernatorial election and they do a straw poll at the end. And you go out there, you make your case, you talk about all the different things that you want to be able to do. And it's kind of a bit of a bellwether as to where things are going to go because this is not a traditional, really a democratic area. And I ended up winning the straw poll and like basically like doubling the person who came in second. And part of it was because we just show up. We went everywhere and part of, you know, we went everywhere because people were like, there's not a lot of Democrats there. But I was like, yeah, but there's a lot of Marylanders and I want to be your governor too. But also it's like, I need to go places where I can get any votes I can find.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Because I, I didn't have a machine. I didn't have, I didn't come from that background. And when we won the Western Maryland Straw Poll, I think people were like, hold on, something's going on here.

• 5:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Seventy-seven percent twenty twenty-four and you won it.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 6:01Patrick Bet-David?

  So then you go general, Obama then calls you because he sees that you could be formidable?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, after, after we won the primary.

• 6:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I think that's when everybody, everybody then kind of came home at that point. We're like, well, listen. If he continues to run the race that he's running, he's probably going to be the next governor. And so that's when people were like, you know, now we're going to come in and endorse his campaign. But that really did not happen because a lot of the establishment Democrats in many ways, for the most part, we had a couple here and there. But it's like, but for the most part, they supported all the candidates.

• 6:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Did I read it correctly that in nineteen ninety-six in a New York Times article? That somehow, some way, they were interviewing, 1996, you're 18 years old, they're interviewing you, saying that you have interest in politics long-term. Is that, is, is that a real story?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  It, um, I think I remember that article. I mean, honestly, I don't know if I thought that, or had it as clear as that.

• 6:54Patrick Bet-David?

  How were you so famous at 18 for New York, no, but how did that even happen? Did people know you were going places? Like, was it something where in high school, they kinda knew there's something very special about this young man?

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Well, you know what happened was, I was a pretty good basketball player in high school, and was getting recruited by colleges and all that kinda stuff, and I decided to join the army out of high school. And it was kind of a curious thing. They're like, you know, you have scholarship offers to go to colleges, but you chose to join the army at 17 years old. And it was kinda two-fold for me. One was that, um, I was good, but I wasn't that good. And like, for example, like, I played against folks like, you know, Kobe Bryant was in my same graduating class in Pennsylvania, and we're in, in, you know, he played out in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

• 7:39Patrick Bet-David?

  You played against him?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so, yeah, so, not only, I have a great Kobe Bryant story, by the time I actually first got to, first got to meet him, but you play against guys like that. You play against guys like, you know, Stephon Marbury, who, we're in the AAU circuit, and you just realize, like, they're just better. Like, for them, the game was easy. For them, the game was smooth. For me, the game was hard, and it was just so much easier for them. So that was one thing. But the second thing was, I knew I wanted to lead soldiers. Like, I was, I was sent to a military school when I was probably 13, 14 years old. And I hated it at first, but it helped save my life. And so, I had a mandatory year in military school. After that first year, my mother was like, alright, what do you wanna do?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Cause you're doing better in school, things are going well. And I said, if it's okay, I'd like to sit tight. Um, I ended up finishing high school and military school. I graduated as a cadet captain, so I'm now 17 years old, and I had 120 people under my command. And when I thought about what I wanted to do with my life, I was like, you know what? I, I think I wanna lead soldiers. And so I had a chance to go play basketball in college and get scholarship offers. But I said, uh, you know, actually what I really like to do is I wanna, I wanna join the army. And that was, I think, the reason the New York Times and them found it to be such an interesting story because it's just not usually what a, a, a recruited high school basketball player does.

• 9:02Patrick Bet-David?

  But that is such a great story to say at 18 years old, New York Times does a story, you're being quoted in it. I'd like to go into politics one day and then you become the governor of the state, you serve. It's a phenomenal story on what you've done.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  It's, uh.

• 9:16Patrick Bet-David?

  On Cal, on Cal she, you're at 1.9%, so if you were at 1% governor.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  I'm already doing better.

• 9:22Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, you're already doing better, so.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  God is, God is good, man.

• 9:25Patrick Bet-David?

  A lot of people you talk to behind closed doors.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  God is good.

• 9:27Patrick Bet-David?

  They say Wes is an event away from being a leading candidate. I don't know what that means. He's an event away. An event away, you know, whether it's a DNC, whether it's a, uh, heated moment of rising up, whether it's, you know, but right now, and, and by the way, the reason why I think when I talk to Stephen A. And we talk a lot about him politically, you know, you wanna run, we have a lot of these conversations privately and.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I love Stephen A. We have a very, very good relationship together. He's like a brother. I mean, we are, we are, uh, but when it comes down.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  He's a good dude.

• 9:58Patrick Bet-David?

  He's, he really is a good dude. I know, he really is a good dude. Of course, his job, he has to push the envelope and he has a lot of enemies, but he's comfortable.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:07Patrick Bet-David?

  In the limelight with the enemies, which we learned you need this after the last few elections that we've seen. But on the Democratic side right now, when you look at that, that's kinda what I wanna go through and, you know, but by the way, just so you know, Obama just tweeted something massive, uh, President Obama just tweeted something massive because of redistricting. We're gonna get into that as well. I don't know if you've seen this or not. This just happened literally a couple hours ago, so we'll talk about this here in a minute.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 10:30Patrick Bet-David?

  But prior to going to that with redistricting, gerrymandering, all these other issues that we'll get into.

• 10:36Patrick Bet-David?

  When, when you look at the current Democratic Party, okay? And you watch the positions they're taking. And America has said, listen, we're not for some of these weird policies on what you're doing. We're just not, okay? You know, uh, uh, men competing in women's sports. That just doesn't make any sense to the average person who is independent. Because to win, you need the independent and the libertarian voters, right? And maybe some of the disgruntled Republican voters. You need them to kind of flip a little bit. But you need the independent. Yes, you'll get the Democrats if you say trans and all this stuff. I also believe on the Democratic Party, there's a couple percent that they're not game with some of the stuff that's happening. So, open ended to you.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, we, we see right now the gubernatorial race taking place in California. You know, Katie Porter and, and Hilton and all these guys are debating the resume of Newsom. And he's gonna have a hard time with his resume. So if there's ever been a time that any Democrat can come out of nowhere, that, that can have some sensible policies. You know, this is the first time in 25, 35 years that no leading Democratic candidate is at 25%.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 11:43Patrick Bet-David?

  And according to CNN polls, this hasn't happened for 35 years. So we're not used to that. What, what does Wes Moore, what does Governor Wes Moore believe in? What values do you believe in?

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Oof, um, you know, honestly, I think the heart of what I believe in is what the army taught me. And it sounds simplistic, but it's, it's actually not. It's when we were 17 and we first joined, uh, I remember on day two, we learned this concept of leave no one behind. Ever, right? You get one of my people, I will send a battalion in to go get them if I have to, because we leave no one behind. Um, and that's very much how I view the world. Where I just feel like we have an obligation, like if I'm starting with 10, I'm finishing with 10. That everybody's gonna matter.

• 12:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  As we make it across the finish line and mission accomplishment isn't that one component of mission accomplishment is actually, did you take care of all of your people? Did all of your people make it back okay? And I actually think that's the right kind of guidance in terms of the way we think about our, our, our policy work like, you know, and when people say, well, in, you know, for example, you talk about public safety, that Republicans say law and order and Democrats say abolish the police or whatever, or like, do you support law enforcement or do you support community? My point is, I don't, I don't think you have to choose. And so like, for example, what did we do in Maryland? Well, we had a crisis of violence in Maryland when I first became the governor, where Baltimore

• 13:14Speaker 01

  City in 2022 was averaging almost a homicide a day. And I said, listen, I refuse to be a governor who's just giving thoughts and prayers and offering eulogies for eight years and not doing nothing about the violence. So we made historic investments in local law enforcement. We made historic investments in technology and analytics and, and stopping crime before it happened. We made Maryland one of the only states in the country that helps to fund the US attorney out of balance sheet. So if someone commits a violent crime with a firearm, not only am I gonna have you in handcuffs in 24 hours, chances are, we're gonna work to make your case and take it federal. Right? And we invested in community violence interruption and we work with the mayor and the state's attorney. And the results have been that now Maryland has amongst the fastest drops in violent crime

• 13:58Speaker 01

  anywhere in the United States of America since I've been the governor. The last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore City, I wasn't born yet. We're literally talking statewide, nearly a 50% drop in violent crime, but it's because...

• 14:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Lowest in 50 years.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Lowest in 50 years. But it's like, but it's because I'm not choosing, y'all. This is not an ideology for me. This is not a political game to me. It's leave no one behind. And if you, if you really believe in that philosophy, you will do anything to make sure that your people are good.

• 14:27Patrick Bet-David?

  I think, I think those two are very important, leave nobody behind. You know, the whole defund the police was very weird, that campaign that happened early on, everybody was confused saying, what are you talking about? Even Democrats are like, I don't know if I believe in this or not. So, to give you credit, top 10 richest states per capita is, is Maryland. Ranks top 5 in education nationally. Lowest homicide in 50 years. Strong access to portals, rail, east coast trade. Port of Baltimore, major US logistics, average home price, $200,000, which means people can still afford to get something there. Uh, you know, crime wise, Maryland and property crime, you're 8. Maryland as a state is now 15. It's not a top 5, it's not a top 10, it's number 15. You, you've done a great job improving it, but let's go with it, let's go to the next issue.

• 15:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Issues with, uh, Trump. Do you see Trump as your enemy? Do you see Trump as the boogeyman? Do you see Trump as, you know, because right now you watch everybody campaigning. As long as they get up then say, Trump's a horrible human being, he's a criminal, he's a this, he's a that. I'm gonna get the Democratic ticket. How do you view, uh, your relationship with Trump and Trump as an individual?

• 15:33Speaker 01

  So, I, I don't, I don't view any of these people as my enemy. You know what I mean? Like, I, I just, I never ran for office because I wanted to have fights with the President of the United States. Like, that's, that's so silly to me. Because every time I'm spending time on that, I'm not spending time on my people. I'm not spending time on making sure they're good. Now, are there certain policies that I just vehemently disagree with? That the President is doing, 100%.

• 15:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Such as?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I mean, that I, that I disagree with?

• 16:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, for example, what happened last year around food and SNAP? And the attempt to cut SNAP for our kids? I just think that is abhorrent. Because these are children who relied on this. And so, like, for example, what we did in our state, you know, we have, uh, you know, we actually have a fund called the Fiscal Responsibility Fund, which is primarily made of, of capital gains tax, that we actually pulled about $63 million from that. Because I was like, I'm not gonna let my children go hungry because Washington DC was having a food fight. But the thing about it is, is that while there are policies that I vehemently disagree with the president, I think we'd be foolish to not say, but there are certain things

• 16:43Speaker 01

  that we have to be honest about that were good ideas and things that we want to lift up. I mean, for a perfect example, you know, the president was able to get something done that we've been calling for for over a decade, which is essentially baby bonds. Baby bonds, what he calls the Trump accounts. It's one of the best ways of actually being able to address things like the racial wealth gap and things like wealth gaps, because if you can actually start investing in children there early and then have that continue to grow and materialize, it's one of the best ways of addressing things like wealth gaps. Well, the truth is, we've been fighting for that for years. And the reality is, a Democratic Democratic presidents have not been able to make that happen, but Donald Trump did.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  And so, give credit where credit is due. I can fight all day long on the policies that I think are backwards, don't make sense, and in some cases, illegal. However, the things that do make sense, give credit where credit is due. And I think that's important in actually our democratic process.

• 17:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Respect. Have you and him ever spoken? Have you guys had?

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:47Patrick Bet-David?

  You guys have spent time together?

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely. No, we spent time together. We had a, you know, I remember the first time, the first time we met was very, was very interesting, because it was actually an Army Navy game. And so, you know, I heard that the president-elect is coming to the Army Navy game. This was, this was, sorry, this is December before he was like second time. And so, I'm the governor that time. So, I'm like, listen, he's coming to my state because the game is being played in Prince George County, Maryland. So, I'm like, of course. So, he comes up and, you know, vehicle pulls up, beast pulls up, and gets out of the vehicle. And I said to him, I was like, you know, welcome back to Maryland, Mr. President-Elect. And he says to me, he says, you're a really good-looking guy in person.

• 18:28Patrick Bet-David?

  He would say something like that.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Very risky guy's mouth. So I was like, I was like, go army, Mr. President. And, uh, and then he, and then he started talking. He's like, he's like, my people tell me you're doing a, doing a really good job. So how can I help you? And we started talking about the bridge, talking about, talking about the key bridge in Baltimore. So I have, I have conversations with the, with the President of the United States.

• 18:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened to February of this year when he was doing a national governor or something? And you were uninvited and you said, I don't know why it was not, what happened with that one?

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Patrick, that, that honestly, that was weird to me because I like, and I, and I think about it where, listen, there are governors.

• 19:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you say something that something prompted or?

• 19:03Speaker 01

  And, and so what happened was with that, which was really weird is that there are governors who like spend a whole lot more time. And you know, they are like going after him every single day. That's not me.

• 19:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Cause I'm just like, listen, if, if you come after my people, but you say something against the folks in Maryland, will I respond? Absolutely. That's my job. I'm the, I'm the chief executive of my state. Right? But I don't spend all day long focusing on the president. Like I'm too busy. I gotta make sure that I'm fighting for my folks. Right? And so when I got personally disinvited, I was like, what did I say? Like there are other governors who are coming at your neck every day. I'm not like, what did I, what did I do? And so I did not understand it. It was, and, and honestly, it wasn't a big deal to me because I'm not, I'm not that interested in going to fancy dinners anyway. Like I'm, I'm good. Like I'm fine, but it was very odd. And the thing about it that.

• 19:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Who else was uninvited? Is it just you?

• 19:56Speaker 01

  It was just me and then, and then, um, and then Jared Polis also was added on to it as well.

• 20:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he explain why or no? Did he ever say why? So till today, you don't know why you were not invited?

• 20:06Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 20:07Patrick Bet-David?

  I would love to know why you were invited.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 20:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it, was it around the time of ICE? Was it around the time of, uh, what would he think?

• 20:16Speaker 01

  But, but even, but, but my, my dispute with him about, uh, about, well, actually it was the National Guard. When you saw him put in the National Guard in Baltimore, my dispute with him on that actually came months earlier. And the reason was because when he was saying, well, we, you have to deal with your crime problems. So therefore I'm going to deploy the National Guard like you did in Washington DC. And I just told him, I was like, Mr. President, listen, you know, numbers. Numbers, let's be clear Baltimore has had a faster drop in violent crime than in Washington DC even post the introduction.

• 20:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Of the National Guard folks. And I said, if you want to talk about ways to reduce crime like we just talked about, I was like, you can come to Maryland to learn, but don't come here to lecture because actually we're doing the work. We're doing the.

• 20:57Patrick Bet-David?

  This is a call you guys had.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, then and then it but it turned into a back and forth on Twitter, which I can't stand. But then he was just like, you know, then he started from the Oval Office. He's like, you know, that place is a hellhole. No one would walk through it and so on and so forth. And I'm like, that's, that's our home. Like, you know, like folks in Baltimore, like we hear that. We hear that coming from the President of the United States and you're talking about Baltimore like those aren't Americans. Those are your people too. And for you to come at us like that and and with the, with just the ignorance was so offensive to me because you have to remember, these are, these are, whether they voted for you or not, and these are your folks too.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  And you have to respect that. And so, um, so that happened, that happened months before. And you know, the thing that I continue to remind him when I, when I told him was like, listen, you know, you're, you're disinviting me from a dinner from first of all, from an organization that you didn't make me a part of. The people of Maryland made me a part of the National Government Association when they elected me to be their governor. And I was the, I'm the vice chair of the organization. In June, I become the chair of the National Government Association.

• 22:07Patrick Bet-David?

  In June, in June, next month, two months.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  Yep, that's exactly right. And I said, and Mr. President, you did not make me the vice chair of the National Government Association. You know who did? The nation's other governors, Democrats and Republicans, they were the ones who selected me to be a leader in the organization. So when he disinvited me and I, and again, shout out to all the other governors, shout out to Kevin Stitt, who's the governor of Oklahoma, Republican.

• 22:33Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a stud, by the way. Big guy, 6'5", 6'6".

• 22:36Speaker 01

  He's huge.

• 22:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Very well spoken.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I am such a huge fan of Kevin. I really am. He's just a, he's a good, good friend. And I remember and and we've had, we've had some, I mean, Kevin is actually probably. One of my closest friends, I have a lot of close friends amongst the governors, but Kevin's right up there. And I remember when I told Kevin, I was like, you know, the president just disinvited me from the dinner. He's like, what? And he's like, for what? I was like, I have no idea. And I remember Kevin was the first one to say, well, let's be clear. If one of us is not invited, it is no longer a National Governance Association dinner. And I was like, respect Kevin.

• 23:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow, good for, well, I heard him speak a couple of months ago. I was at a Goldman Sachs event in Dallas and he got up and he was selling Oklahoma because everything about the event was about Texas and you know, Ross Perot got up there, you know, the, the, the son or the grandson, he was selling Texas as the best play. Goldman Sachs is coming out, they're building their second biggest headquarters. And then he gets up there, says, look, I know this is a Texas, but let me tell you what we're doing in Oklahoma. I kind of liked the way he handled himself. But you know, you know, Trump every once in a while will do things like that. And you don't know what the reasonings are. At that time, I think it could have been a little bit with the ICE agents. And by the way, he's about to call a nice agent. So I don't know, you saw that whole thing about him approving it being a nice agent. But let me get back to this, a question with SNAP. Fair on what you're saying with SNAP.

• 23:56Patrick Bet-David?

  I have two questions on SNAP. One, are you for SNAP not being given to many of these illegal immigrants and folks who are taking it at percentages higher where that money needs to be going to Americans for people that need it rather than for people that are coming to take advantage of the system?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and honestly, that's the way the system is structured now, right? Is that

• 24:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Abuse is there though.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Well, but then abuse, but abuses is one thing, right? And abuse, if anyone is breaking the law, then of course you need to be accountable for being able to break the law. But what we're talking about and the way the system is structured right now is that it's a joint responsibility between the federal government and our states to be able to provide supplemental nutrition for our kids. And honestly, it's a better thing for all of us. Because like, I don't want my kids going to school hungry. I don't want my kids, you know, suffering from having now suffering from illnesses that are now going to cost more money for them to have to go to emergency rooms and deal with. I don't, the more people I can have being productive members of my community, the less money I have to spend on social services.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  And so I actually think this is actually a good investment to be able to do these things. And if the president is going to adjust it, my point is this, then have a conversation with the nation's governors, who are your partners inside of this work. But you cannot just unilaterally decide that you're going to adjust it. And again, violate the law to do it and then expect for us to just come up with it. That's not the way a partnership is supposed to work.

• 25:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. So, so you are against folks who abuse the system, but you're for the people that actually need it to take advantage of it?

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 25:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, listen, I, I will debate with anyone who is saying that you need to be able to break the law in order to be humane. No, no, you need to make sure you are both doing two things, right? You got to make sure you are following the law.

• 25:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  You got to make sure you are following the constitution.

• 25:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  And you can make sure that you're also being humane with the people in your jurisdictions. And I don't think you have to choose between those two things.

• 26:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so the baby bonds idea, great, you know, with what he's doing, you're supportive of it.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Walk me through one of the issues that was just an absolute, it caused so many people to become independents. And that is men competing in women's sports, okay, transgenders. Where are you at there? I, I understand at the beginning, everybody's like, wow, you know, what is this? Some people that are maybe Democrats or maybe even independents saying, what, what's the argument? We, we should let them be able to transition and now we're having men compete against women? That's the part where it completely stops. Where are you at with that?

• 26:32Speaker 01

  So, I, I can tell you, I think about this as a parent, right? And I think about this as, as a someone with a, you know, a 12-year-old son, 14-year-old daughter.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  I want them to get some sports, the same thing that I got from sports, where it gave me a chance to be a part of a team. It gave me a chance to learn great life lessons, like from sports, I learned how to win and how to lose.

• 26:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  And it gave me a chance to compete fairly. And I think we have to always show a sense of humanity in where we are. We want to make sure that we're protecting all of our kids. We want to make sure we're doing that. But if the competition becomes unfair, I think that's where you have to be able to draw a line. And I think there's ways you can do it. I think there's, you know, one thing I know is that our local jurisdictions are actually the ones who are responsible for this. And actually, I think that's a good thing. Like, I don't think that the president or a governor should be getting involved in something that is actually a decision of a local jurisdiction. And I trust local jurisdictions to be able to figure this out. However, I also know, when I think about it from the perspective of my daughter, I want her to be safe and I want her to be able to compete fairly.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  And I think that both of those two things can live simultaneously, where you can provide measurements for people and all young people to get the same benefits in sports that we all got. But also, no, I do not want my child to be, have it be either unfair or unsafe.

• 28:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You haven't answered it yet.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I just did.

• 28:02Patrick Bet-David?

  No men competing in women's.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I don't think that that's something that we should allow.

• 28:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Now, I do, again, it's local jurisdictions that, and I think it should be up to local jurisdictions.

• 28:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Leave it to them, not a federal? So you don't want it to be a federal thing, deciding whether... So do you think puberty blockers given to kids under the age of 18 should be a federal decision? It should be a state or a local decision?

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Well, all of them right now are local decisions.

• 28:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  All of them right now are local decisions. But I think that, just like many things when it comes to our kids, parental involvement does matter. Like, I want, for my 14-year-old and my 12-year-old, I want to be involved in a decision-making process, especially for something that has lasting implications on their life.

• 28:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, question. We're both parents. I've got four kids, 14, 12, 9, and 4.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Your son comes in saying he wants to transition. What do you do?

• 28:54Speaker 02

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• 29:24Speaker 01

  Well, first, if it's, you know, it's my son. So I love him regardless, right?

• 29:35Speaker 01

  And he's always gonna have my undying love. That's, that's me, right? I wanna make sure that I'm involved in understanding

• 29:46Speaker 01

  where he is, how he's feeling, the way he's feeling, why he thinks is important. If this is a journey that he wants to go down, I want him to always be comfortable in his own skin. And I want him to always know that he has a partner in me to help him along that journey.

• 30:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you advise him to wait till he's 18?

• 30:09Speaker 01

  I, I, if, if this is how he is feeling and I feel like I'm, I'm closely tied to him, I'm not gonna advise him on something that he feels is...

• 30:20Patrick Bet-David?

  At 14 years old, Wes?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  No, I understand it, but what I'm saying is, the most important thing for me is I want him to feel safe in his own skin, safe in his own decision-making, but also know that at 14 years old, I wanna be involved inside of that process as well. I'm not going to condemn him nor castigate him. I'm not gonna kick him out of the house. I'm not going to do anything that's going to hurt him.

• 30:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  But I just wanna make sure that I'm involved.

• 30:51Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I fully, by the way, just, uh, my crew came in here, okay? And, uh, I was coming from the other building. I came on this side. They said, "Pat, I gotta tell you something." "What's that?" "I like him a lot." That's all they're telling me. "I freaking like this guy a lot right there. He's looking, waving, going like this." "Look at these guys. I like him a lot. I don't know. I like him a lot." So, I, something tells me, and, and, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think it would happen to your son because of the way you've raised him. So that, I don't even think that's a thought that you have. But maybe let me rephrase the question on what some people have a hard time with.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:30Patrick Bet-David?

  So, I still live in Glendale, California. I went to Glendale High School. So I lived in California most of my life. If you ask me what freeways I know on the, like, the back of my hand, it's anything in LA I know, all of them. 405, 2170, 134, 145. You name them, I know, okay.

• 31:49Patrick Bet-David?

  If all of a sudden, you've raised your kids in a certain way. And say you put them in a Christian private school till 5th grade. Your son has never brought anything up. In 5th grade, your wife gets fired. And you were relying on that $72,000 a year income that she had. She hasn't found a job to replace that income. You guys talk and you say, babe, I think we gotta do public school. You put your kids in public school. And all of a sudden, you notice, 6 months, 12 months, your son is behaving in a weird way. And then he has support with a teacher, they build a relationship. And then you find out that the teacher, maybe as part of the LGBTQ community,

• 32:31Patrick Bet-David?

  is encouraging your son, who's never, since he was in 5th grade, ever brought this up. Now because of a couple of friends and a teacher, he is thinking about taking puberty blockers to go through the transition. As a parent, how informed would you like to be when that teacher is talking to your kid? And is persuading them? And what position would you have to say, wait a minute, I've never seen any signs like this. Why are you going through it right now? Would you then say, son, if you do want to get on puberty blockers? And transition under the age of 18, I'll support you? Or would you say, no, we gotta kind of get to the bottom of this?

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Well, first, I don't care where we're talking about puberty blockers, or whether we're talking about what type of math you're learning. I want to be involved. You know what I mean, like, I'm an involved parent. Uh, my wife is an involved parent. And I just think it's very important for parents to be involved in everything that happens with their, with their child. And that's why I think that anything that happens in a school should be, you know, a joint process between the teachers and the parents, always. And no, and no matter what.

• 33:34Patrick Bet-David?

  So parents should know what's happening. Teachers can't keep a secret away from parents and not informing them what conversations they're having.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  I think parents have to be involved.

• 33:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, but I'm saying there's a lot of parents that maybe don't have the luxuries that you and I have, who don't make the money that maybe we make. And, you know, you've done well for yourself. You're taking care of your finances over the years. You were in the military. You give me the vibe of somebody that's Done made good decisions. You were an investment banker. You've done well for yourself.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But some of the people that don't have that luxury, you know, i- i- it's it's. Here's what I think is gonna happen. The reason why I'm asking this question, when I talk to Stephen A., Stephen A.'s like, nope. Full stop. I got a daughter. Men, no, not gonna happen. I think 2028 election is gonna be the most free agency election. And I actually think whatever Kalshi's got you right now is not the right number. I think if anybody's a betting man right now and is willing to put a little bit on Kalshi to say, hey, who I think has a potential of doing something that could have a plus minus.

• 34:39Patrick Bet-David?

  I would support, uh, uh, you know, if you got, like, you go to Kentucky Derby. I like to go to Kentucky Derby a lot and you'll you'll have three horses on a final race. If you wanna vote and and, you know, support somebody on the Democratic ticket. I think I would put you as a long shot because I don't think it's a long shot. I really don't. I really believe in your abilities to go through this next phase. Charming, likable, military background. You flirted with being a Republican back in the days, Condoleezza Rice. Maybe you were Republican back in the days and, you know, whether you wanna talk about that or not, the market kinda sees that you were, so it's out there, so it's good for that district you were talking about. Seventy-seven percent. But I do believe if you want the independent votes and that position is

• 35:21Patrick Bet-David?

  a little bit vanilla, I think it'll backfire versus it being black and white because I do think independents are willing to support a guy like you. But that's an area that just loses husband or wives. Mom and dads are like, dude, come on, guys, just give me a real answer.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  No, but but honestly, it it is my real answer to say that I I think we always have to make sure that parents have involvement in this. That parents, parents have a say in this. These things cannot be decided without any form of, you know, adult, uh, you know, with any any form of.

• 35:51Patrick Bet-David?

  But if a parent wants to go through it, you know, and and pub- puberty blockers are available, you're saying it's okay for parents to try to give the kids puberty blockers as long as parents approve it? That decision becomes on the parents.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Listen, I I think that, um, it's not a choice that I would make.

• 36:09Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not a choice that you would make.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  It's not, it's not a choice that I would make, um. You know, I I I think that it is a very personal decision between these families. And, um, and honestly, my, uh.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  For the kids that are going through this, I mean, honestly, my heart breaks for them because that is, that is a weight.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  And something that's become so politicized that I, I just think it's so deeply unfair to that child.

• 36:35Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  You know, um.

• 36:37Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  But, um, but I think this is something that they are, this is a decision that the child cannot make on their own.

• 36:45Patrick Bet-David?

  When you were in high, when, when you were in high school, um, do you remember how many gay friends you had in high school? Do you remember how many gay guys were in high school that we knew about publicly, openly? Cause I remember myself. I was in a school with 4,000 kids.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  That's a good question. You know, you know, it's interesting, um.

• 37:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't say their names. I don't want you to say.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 37:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Larry Jackson was a, you know.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  No, but you know, but you know, it's interesting.

• 37:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  When I went to military school, cause I got sent to military school when I was young. That was a, uh, that was an offense that could get you kicked out of school.

• 37:15Patrick Bet-David?

  I remember that.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  So, so, cause remember.

• 37:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't ask, don't.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  That was, that was, that was pre, when I first went, I think Don't Ask, Don't Tell was passed.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  Um, a few years after, after I started military, after I started military school. No, in fact, yes, Don't Ask, Don't Tell was, I think, year two of my military school. So actually that was a dismissable offense before. So, you know, I actually didn't really get to know other people who were like openly, other teenagers who were openly gay until probably when I was like 15, 16 years old. And that wasn't people I went to school with.

• 37:50Patrick Bet-David?

  That wasn't even the people you went to school with?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 37:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it a big school you went to or was it a smaller school?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I, I think there were about 900 cadets.

• 37:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  In my school.

• 37:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. So I, I actually remember a couple of guys in the military that were gay.

• 38:02Patrick Bet-David?

  One of the guy was and ended up marrying a girl and had two kids. But I'm like, hey, I remember, you know, he, he, he DM me on Facebook 15 years ago, hey, you won't believe it. I'm married with two kids. I'm like, no shit. All right, great. Good for you. But we, we laughed about it cause, uh, it was good conversation. He was actually a good soldier. But in high school. Wes, if I say three, that's a big number. Yeah. And it was like, nobody cared. But one of the concerns, and I'll move on, I don't want to stay on this story for too long. One of the concerns is that the percentage, Bill Maher talked about this. Do you have the chart, Rob, where it shows, you know, all of a sudden, generations? You and I are from a different generation. So for me, I sympathize with this generation because I wonder

• 38:45Patrick Bet-David?

  how much more exposure they're getting, that some of the kids that maybe are having a hard time getting a boyfriend or a girlfriend, they're like, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm this, maybe I'm that, and they're kind of going through a direction. And then that kind of leads to a completely different thing. If I was an enemy who hates America, say there's an enemy who hates America. And we know when we look at our current stats right now, our birth rate in America is 1.58. Lowest we've had in god knows how many years, ever. That's right. So we need to be at 2.1. Yep. Now we're at 1.58. If the LGBTQ community increases, birth rate goes down. So now we are introducing all these birth controls in there.

• 39:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Then we have the LGBTQ, then we have, you know, making life expensive, then you have affordability, then you have, you know, some of the programming that's happening with the kids. I mean, this is generation, if you think about a silent generation, only 0.8% is gay. Baby boomer 2.6, Gen X 4.2, millennials 10 and a half, Gen Z 20.8, and then next generation, 41.6. I mean, so this part becomes where parents, serious parents are saying, I feel, there's guys, people that are Democrats who will never vote Republican, but they're sitting there saying, I'm considering going to the other side because they're pro-choice. But they're not for this. And so a part of it becomes, they're going through it because maybe kids

• 40:09Patrick Bet-David?

  are being pushed to think in a certain way, and I think it's unfair to the kids. You know, Poland had a guy here whose name is Dominic Tarchinsky.

• 40:18Patrick Bet-David?

  And he said something to me in Poland, lowest rape in all of EU, lowest unemployment, okay, they're doing great with economy, and out of all the stats you look at, if in school, if you do sexual education to minors in school, you go to prison, Poland, they leave that to parents, they're like, hey, Wes, Patrick, it's your job to teach your kids on sexual orientation, not teachers, if I leave it to the teachers to teach me, they're imposing maybe some of their opinions that's not factual. So, I kind of have some thoughts there, I'm like, that's an interesting idea to have that. But anyways, before we close, I'll give you the final thoughts on this.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, and this is why I think everything about education, to include all this, it cannot happen in the absence of parents. It just can't. Like, parents have to be involved in what's happening inside of classrooms. Now, especially when it comes to things like the LGBTQ community, I also believe that, you know, that we're not talking about something that for our friends, this is a choice. I'll give you an example, where, you know, I actually got involved in the don't ask, don't tell thing. And it wasn't because it was like, it was a personal issue for me, but it was because I found out that one of my good friends was exited from the military.

• 41:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Because of being...

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Because he had the audacity of telling, you know, something that was his truth. And I remember him talking about kind of the impact it had on his family and all this kind of stuff, and he said something that was really important to me, where he said, "Do you think I would choose to have my family discard me?" He was one of the best leaders that I'd known in the military, and still a dear, dear friend. He was the kind of leader that I would put my children under his command.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Because he's that good, right? And, but the army was at that point telling him that, but you know what? Because you're gay, we don't have a place for you.

• 42:24Patrick Bet-David?

  What year, 99, 98?

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Uh, no, this was, um, God, when, when was this? This must have been like 2000, 2010 or something like that, I think.

• 42:33Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, they got rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell in 2011, if I'm not mistaken.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  It's 2011, right?

• 42:37Patrick Bet-David?

  2011, yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  So that's, that's when it must have been. Because I got very involved, I was working with a group called Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America, who were doing a lot of work on this issue. Um, the reason that I say that is because I don't think that this is something that people are choosing to go on. I think that, I think that if this is...

• 42:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I think a percentage, I agree. I think a percentage, I fully agree. And, and, you know, but I also think a bigger percentage, I don't agree. Because, so I grew up in a single family home. Parents got a divorce to each other twice. I hung out with kids from Burbank Tresce, from TVR, I don't know if Tunaville was a gang in LA. And we had all these other guys. And I got, because I had bad grades and I was a troublemaker, they put me in this, uh, basketball league called the New Century City Basketball Association, something like that, in Echo Park. If you know LA Echo Park, in the 90s, horrible. 1994 Echo Park, horrible. So I'm in a group with kids who are from Black Diamonds, from Blood, from Crip,

• 43:40Patrick Bet-David?

  from MS-13, Mara Salvatrucha, from Tunaville, from, you name it. We're all together playing basketball. Everybody's a, one day there's a shooting, my dad is there. My dad just turned 84 last two weeks ago. He's there, and old friend of mine, Adrian, if he sees this, he'll crack up because we were hiding in the bathroom because there's shooting everywhere. And the helicopter comes, couple guys, the guy that was the best scorer was with Bloods, he got arrested, went to prison. Um, so guess what? What happened to me? I was never a gangster. I wasn't a kid in Iran that was gonna be a gangster, a tough guy. And then all of a sudden, I started like, listening to Arby Oposse, I started listening to all this gangster rap, and I started hanging out with them, and all of a sudden, like, you know what? Maybe, maybe I am. And that influence, if I don't join the army, my life goes a very different direction.

• 44:24Patrick Bet-David?

  So to me, I do agree with you. You know, and, and I'm not a scientist to sit here and say what happens with the chromosomes and all this. I'm not, I'm not playing that card, because that's not my space. But I do believe a bigger percentage of it is a pattern of kids who get confused that go through it. I don't think this will be the topic of discussion for election 2028, like meaning, you know, whether you're born, whether you're not, I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue will be puberty blockers, transgender, I think men and women's sports, I think that's gonna be there. And I think the Democratic candidate, you will be on the stage when you're debating, if that day comes, and they're gonna ask that question. And how that's answered will be very interesting to see whether you're gonna get the independent voters or not, because I think you're gonna need independent voters.

• 45:09Patrick Bet-David?

  My opinion. Look what Trump did. Trump knew he needed the independent voters. When they asked him about LGBTQ, what did he say? That, that's all, we've already had that discussion. I don't even need to answer this. Just moved on. So a Republican took that position. Yeah. And he moved on and it helped them. I think on a Democratic side, uh, you're gonna want the reasonable parents to support you and it's gonna be, look, I don't want any boys competing in women's sports. My opinion. Let me get to the next one. Yeah. Um, in regards to other things with the bridge in, in, uh, uh, in, uh, in, uh, Baltimore, in Maryland. Because I don't think people give you enough credit. I think you've done a very good job, uh, improving that market, you know, if anybody gives credit for lowest crime, when I think, I've been to Baltimore, I used to go to Gibson Island.

• 45:54Patrick Bet-David?

  There's a, there's a place called Gibson Island, real nice place. Beautiful. Beautiful place, and I'm a baseball guy, so look, I mean, Baltimore's a baseball city. It sure is. Uh, I'm a football guy, you know, one of my good friends, Mahirana Sadi, who is a CEO of one of the biggest insurance company in America, number one in index universal life, he lives in Baltimore. He's been a season ticket holder, I don't know, 25 years. And he's there, so good people come out of this place. Yeah. When the bridge happened, uh, and we all saw the video, okay, everybody saw the video, what happened to it and it got hit and all this stuff. The debris took 38 days, right? I think 28 or 38 days to clean up. I don't know the exact number, it's something eight. It's either, uh, damage, okay, uh, uh, let me see the exact, because I want to say it correctly.

• 46:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Took 78 days to remove the debris. Okay, and then it's a 1.6 mile steel truss bridge. A lot of people say, well, how did DeSantis fix the bridge? That's three miles. It's a very different bridge. So people can't make that comparison. It's apples and oranges. I'm putting that and I'm a DeSantis guy. So I'm not pinning you against him. I don't want to say that's very different. But then the numbers came out that you said you want speed. You want to get it done quick, right? Then the budget came out to 5.2 billion. I want to say somewhere around there and saying it will take to 2030. To your critics that say, Governor Moore, why can't we get this thing done faster? What do you say to them?

• 47:14Speaker 01

  So I'd say that when they said it was going to take 11 months to clear the channel, we got it cleared in 11 weeks. When they said it was going to take years to get permitting done, we got it done in months. When they said it was going to take literally five to seven years to get a, to get a 7% design build, we got it done in 14 months. This is the fastest moving major project inside of the country. And people forget that initial bridge, the Francis Scott Key Bridge was, she built nearly a two mile long bridge. That from design permitting implementation took 12 years, right? We're talking about now getting this thing done within literally less than half of the time. And the bridge that we're going to have to build is going to have to be a bridge, according

• 47:56Speaker 01

  to federal guidelines, a bridge that has more safety implementations. Because what happened that morning on March 26th can never happen again. This is a ship the size of three football fields that slammed into a nearly two mile long bridge and took it down instantaneously. This is a engineering marvel, what happened. And you see here where literally the, the, the bridge is sitting on top of a ship, right? We knew, and the thing that I was focused on is, I want speed. I want safety and I want cost savings. And we've been able to help to deliver on those things. In fact, just recently, when I saw that the people who are the contractors,

• 48:39Speaker 01

  you know, we're not, we're actually, you know, estimating that this is going to be more expensive than what we initially laid out. I fired them. And now we're going to go through the process, but the work is still.

• 48:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You're back at it again. So from the.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Well, the work is still happening right now.

• 48:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Because phase one, phase one is still going to happen for the next six months.

• 48:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  The initial, the initial company that we had as a contractor, they're going to keep on working through January because phase one still has time to go.

• 49:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But they're not going to be the ones that's going to get the job done.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I want a different team for phase two.

• 49:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Because of speed? You're not happy with the speed or cost?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  A, I want it done faster and it's the cost. I'm very, I am a hawk when it comes to taxpayer dollars on this. And when I saw that the cost continued to escalate, that's when I made the decision, then I'm going to fire them. And we're going to go through the process that once phase one is complete, I want phase two to begin immediately, but I want phase two to begin immediately with the, with the, with the company. That's going to get us to the finish line. And, and so while, and now when people say they're like, listen, it still seems aggressive that you can get something like that done. If you look at some of the comps, things like the Gordy Howe Bridge, the Gordy Howe Bridge of 20 years, similar sized bridge. You look at the, you look at the, the harbor bridge in Texas, same thing.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Where this thing has taken decades to get done. And I'm talking about getting it done in a fraction of that time. The answer is yes, because we're focused. And again, I'm very clear. It is speed, it is safety, and it is cost savings. Those are the three things that I want to be able to focus on to make sure we can get this bridge done.

• 50:08Patrick Bet-David?

  So is it going to be above 5.2 billion?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  Uh, well, we'll have to wait to see what the next contractor comes back to.

• 50:14Patrick Bet-David?

  The offers they make.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, and, and, and now in, in fairness to the other contractor.

• 50:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  The thing that they were saying was this, was that this thing cost, you know, a couple billion dollars when it was done in 1977. Right? Since 1977, the cost of everything has increased. This has to be a bridge that can take on bigger cargo and allow more cargo.

• 50:37Patrick Bet-David?

  40,000 cars a day. I mean, this is like a very important bridge.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  This is the most, this, the Port of Baltimore is one of the most important ports in the United States of America. Two-thirds of the country get their goods from the Port of Baltimore. It's the largest roll-on, roll-off port in the entire country. It's the largest when it comes to spices and sugars, et cetera. Like whether you are driving in Michigan, or whether you are eating a meal in Louisiana, chances are, those goods came from the Port of Baltimore. And that bridge is a major artery for it. So, the reason that we were so focused on getting that channel cleared quickly, and the reason that even last year, after the tragedy, last year was the second most productive year in the history of the Port of Baltimore. So, when people talk about the speed, this is speed that is just absolutely unheard of when it comes to dealing with this kind of crisis.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  The state of Maryland put on a case study in how you deal with moments of crisis. We had six bodies that we still had to recover and make sure we're getting them back to their families. So, I'm really proud of how the state moved, but also, the state knows, I am very clear, it is speed, safety, and cost saving.

• 51:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you this, have you had a conversation with the president about this?

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 51:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  And Secretary Duffy as well, who's actually been a very good partner.

• 51:49Patrick Bet-David?

  He's very good. He's a class act himself. Him and his wife are phenomenal.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:53Patrick Bet-David?

  So, is it something where, did the president, when you speak with him, offer to help you, working collaboratively together, to get it done faster? Did that conversation take place?

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in fact, not only have we been working very closely with Secretary Duffy on it, yes, when I made the announcement that I was firing the other contractor, because they weren't getting what my expectations were, Secretary Duffy then put out another note from the Department of Transportation, basically echoing what we said and saying, "I think the state of Maryland did the right thing." So, this was something that, that it was both for the, not just the state, but also, the federal government came back and piggybacked and said, "This was the right thing."

• 52:35Patrick Bet-David?

  In the past, when this has happened, because this is probably You know, not many times, but it's happened in the past before. What role does the federal government play to help accelerate? Because this is not just a regular place. This is a very important bridge.

• 52:47Speaker 01

  It is.

• 52:47Patrick Bet-David?

  What role has the federal government played?

• 52:49Speaker 01

  So for this bridge, the federal government, and also I gotta give credit to Congress. And both Democrats and Republicans in Congress. Because they voted for the 100% cost share. And so what a 100% cost share is, it's essentially bridge financing. It's essentially saying, listen, you know, we know that this is going in litigation. And when, and we know then when the litigation is settled. Because even Lloyds of London has indicated this is probably going to be the most expensive maritime tragedy in our nation's history. But what they know is, I can't wait for that to be complete. So what the federal government is saying is that, listen, we're going to help to support it. But essentially, we are going to do bridge financing. Once everything is settled, that money then comes back to the treasury.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  But then, the federal government on not just this project, but the federal government, when it comes to most projects that take place around the country. They serve as the main underwriter. Because whether you're talking about roads, or bridges, or tunnels. No state has the resources to be able to take care of all infrastructure in your state alone. That support comes from Congress. That support comes from Washington. And so this, like other projects in the last round, came from Washington, where they said, we are going to support because we think this project is important enough to be able to serve as an underwriter.

• 54:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, fair enough, and best of luck to you guys. This story that came out, I think today, Maryland drops construction company for Baltimore's Key Bridge as federal partner seeks to lower costs. Maryland will start looking for new construction companies, working together with the government, so more power to you, working with Secretary Sean Duffy. He seems like a stud of a guy, and best of luck.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  He's been, he has been, he has been a very, very.

• 54:27Patrick Bet-David?

  See, that's the part about.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  He's been a good partner.

• 54:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me tell you what, this is the part that's important about you, on how you are.

• 54:34Patrick Bet-David?

  That you're willing to work with anybody, your relationship with Oklahoma Governor, you're now Duffy. You know, the conversation's giving credit to what the President's doing with the baby. All this stuff is very important. This is why. People like you as much as they do because you know the next level of leadership is is we need that because today the biggest thing is like even California I don't know I'm sure you follow it closely because you know there's only 50 of you and I believe you're the only African American governor we have right now.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  And only and only the third in American history.

• 55:05Patrick Bet-David?

  And the only one ever in Maryland.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Only one ever in Maryland.

• 55:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so it's not like it's it's an easy feat to do so you're you're one of very few in the history of America that we have, right?

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:18Patrick Bet-David?

  When it comes on to homelessness, okay? Crime you'll typically hear Baltimore being the top five. At one point it was one, two, three, five, now some people even say six, seven, maybe it's dropping, right? It's dropping. Homelessness in California, this next phase i- if you choose to go through it on the national stage as a president. Newsom's gonna be one of your opponents if you choose to go on the national stage. And Katie Porter was asked what grade do you give Gavin Newsom? On the way he's handled homelessness because you know he was given 24 billion dollars taxpayers gave it to him. Eighty five thousand dollars per homeless person, I think the number that Matt's been done. And she was asked what would you give?

• 56:02Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, Newsom on homelessness and she said I'm a tough teacher, but I would give him a B, right? I would give him a B.

• 56:12Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know how you would answer this, I don't even know if it's a fair question to ask you. But you know on the national stage, you're a governor, you run a state, Newsom runs a state, he's a governor. You've been able to fix the state. He hasn't been able to fix the state. A lot of people say California is worse than it was the day he got elected, the fifth year, today, you know, he lost a trillion dollars of wealth. During covid, he just lost another trillion dollars mishandling the you know wealth tax and we just saw the story they got the 1.55 million votes to be able to put it on the ballot so most likely he's gonna pass. Who's not gonna vote, there's only two, you know, hundred and something, 200 billionaires in the state of California, of course the rest are gonna say

• 56:54Patrick Bet-David?

  this is just to punish the 200 people, tax the hell out of them, let's do the tax 5%.

• 57:00Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think has happened in the state of California with the way Gavin Newsom's led versus the way you've led?

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Well, honestly, I can tell you about what we've done in Maryland and why...

• 57:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You're gonna play it safe?

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Well, no, and honestly, this is not a play it safe because I have not spent time digging into...

• 57:17Patrick Bet-David?

  You're about to be the vice chair, you're gonna be the chair, you can't give me that answer. You're leading all of these guys, so you gotta...

• 57:25Speaker 01

  And you know why?

• 57:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Because I think we follow best practices and I think we've got some really interesting best practices that I think Maryland can share with other people and some things that we've learned from other states. And I can tell you about some of those things as well.

• 57:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let me ask the question a different way. You were given 24 billion dollars to fix homelessness in the state of Maryland. What would you have done?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Well, I can tell you what we did to help fix homelessness without 24 billion dollars.

• 57:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Please, even better.

• 57:47Speaker 01

  You know, the first thing that you gotta do, you have to focus on the acute problem and making sure that housing has to become, you know, has to become an issue. You have to make sure that people are not becoming homeless in the first place, which deals with the issue of housing insecurity, which means that we need to build more housing, right? We have to build more affordable options and affordable housing for people. It's one of the big reasons why I've been very aggressive when it comes to housing in my state because I don't think the way you deal with housing and the rising cost of housing is by capping the cost. I think you have to build more housing. And so what we've done, for example, in Maryland, where I said, "Who's the largest landowner in the state of Maryland?" Well, the answer is the state of Maryland. And I get that 70% of my state is either water lined or water locked.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  You can't build everywhere, but in the places that you can build, you need to build and you need to make it faster. Cut the red tape, cut all the regulations and all the permitting processes and everyone who wants to slow this process up and say on things like transit-oriented development and density bonuses, get that stuff done and build more housing. And actually, I passed legislation that says particularly around transit, trains, buses, etc. If it is stayed on land, I want to build housing on it, right? Because that's going to increase more inventory for people and inventory of all types, affordable housing and a whole bunch of variety of different types of housing. Come up with better ways of supporting your renters so you're not having more people fall into homelessness. And if people fall into homelessness, make sure it is temporary. And make sure you can have more supports for them. So people don't have this revolving door when it comes to homelessness.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  And particularly for children. Because one of the biggest challenges you have for a child is if a child has to move around multiple times during a school year, that child is not going to learn. And that child is not going to have a real chance of real of long-term academic success. And so we've actually been really successful in driving down homelessness in our state.

• 59:32Patrick Bet-David?

  24 billion.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Without needing 24.

• 59:35Patrick Bet-David?

  So if you were given 24 billion, what would you have done? Would you have done taxpayers? We don't need it. Take the money back. When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast. We had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscanyero. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the Future Looks Bright Collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary. Rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.

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• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Well, I would say, give me what you, give me what you need to be able to solve a problem. And that, and it's funny because that's very much the way I think about budgeting, period. Like, I don't, and it's the same way when I think about taxes, right? I think there are people who think about taxes like it's an ideology. Right? Taxes are not an ideology. They're a tactic. What do you need in order to get done? And then let's focus on actually being able to make targeted investments. In our state, for example, you know, the four years that I've been the governor, do you know, we have actually had a general fund in our state, the fund that, you know, that you, the fund services? You know, I've actually decreased the general fund every single year? First time this has happened in decades where the Maryland governor for four straight years has actually decreased the size of the budget.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Because I said, tell me what works and fund that. Tell me what doesn't work.

• 1:01:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Every year you lowered it?

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  Every single year I've been the governor. Look it up.

• 1:01:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Dude, that's...

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Every year I've been the governor, we've lowered the general fund in the state of Maryland. Look it up. And, but it's because I don't, people oftentimes think about a number and they move towards a number. No, tell me what you need. Tell me what it is that we have to resource. And I've told the state, we've got to do more with less.

• 1:02:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let me ask you, I just looked up right now, where you rank in the highest in taxes, right? You're ranks eighth to 12th, somewhere around there as the highest taxes in America. 10 or 11% tax burden. Okay, state income tax?

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  And look where it was four years ago.

• 1:02:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, right. State income tax, so let me ask you this. Here's a question for you. Yeah, DeSantis here, I love him, he's phenomenal as a governor. And, you know, we were living in Texas, we were happy with Texas. I escaped California, I knew California did not like guys like us 10 years ago when we left. I just knew that was gonna be a problematic place. And now they're introducing a wealth tax. DeSantis is thinking about, he sits there and says, we have 31 billion dollars we were getting every year from property tax. Rob, can you pull up the number? He says, now I'm getting 63 billion. I don't need that additional 31 billion or 33 billion, whatever the number is, in surplus. I want to find a way to give that back to Floridians. Okay.

• 1:02:57Patrick Bet-David?

  So then he's starting to have conversations about eliminating taxes for homestead. Okay? Eliminating taxes for homestead.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:03:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you thought about a dramatic way of lowering taxes so it attracts other people to come to you? Because right now, if you think about where business owners are leaving... A lot of people are leaving to New York because of what Maldani is doing, what Hokel is doing. Ken Griffin is just having a meeting with her right now, I think today or yesterday, the meeting was taking place, saying, "What are you guys talking about? Just targeting me." California is losing business owners because, you know, taxes and where they're at. What would you or could you do to work with taxes to start attracting others, especially in a blue state like yours, to get others to come in and say, "Hey, I think we can get rid of following taxes to attract some business owners." What would you do?

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  So, I think there's a few things that we can do and have done. One is, you do need to make it a more tax-friendly environment for your businesses. This year, I actually, we introduced a piece of legislation that I just signed called the Decade Act. And the Decade Act is actually the most business-forward piece of legislation that I think Maryland's probably passed in decades. And, you know, with a Democratic governor and a Democratic legislature, which actually provides incentives for businesses. It's about $100 million tax cut going to businesses that both incentivizes businesses to stay in the state of Maryland and come to the state of Maryland. And if you just look in recent months, we've now announced that AstraZeneca has now made the largest private investment in Maryland in over a decade. It's going to support about 2,600 jobs.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  We saw how Samsung Biologics has just announced that it's creating its first manufacturing facility in the United States, and they're creating it in Maryland. We saw how the Sphere, in Las Vegas, the Sphere, is now, you know, it announces doing its second one in Abu Dhabi. Its second one they're doing in the United States is in Prince George's County, Maryland.

• 1:04:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop it.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Prince George's County, Maryland, is where the Sphere is coming.

• 1:04:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  And, and, and I'll tell you why.

• 1:04:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Sick.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Well, it's because we provided the right kind of incentives for them to choose to come to Maryland. And that is going to be worth about 6,000 jobs in just in the creation, and over 8,000 jobs once it's created, right? So, we are making sure we're incentivizing our businesses to be able to come to the state of Maryland, and providing the right kind of incentives, and providing the right kind of climate and environment. But also, we have to make sure we're investing in the things that makes businesses want to come to our state. You know what makes business want to come to our state? That it's one of the most educated states inside the country, that we have now...

• 1:05:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Top five.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. And if you... Look at the state of Maryland. We have the fastest jumps in reading scores anywhere in the United States of America under the leadership of Dr. Kerry Wright. That we are making sure that we're providing a greater level of support when it comes to our anchor institutions. Like, we are the home of the NSA. We're the home of US Cyber Command. We're the home of the United States Naval Academy, of Johns Hopkins University, of NIST, of the only pure-play public company in quantum, which is Ion Q. Literally, we are the capital of quantum. And so you have to also create the ecosystem that makes businesses want to come, that makes businesses want to grow and thrive. And so that's the thing I think you have to be able to do, that, yes, it's about tax policy and making it more attractive for businesses.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  And, by the way, we're now seeing how Maryland's population is the fastest-growing population we've had in Maryland in over a decade. And so you both have to-

• 1:06:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Your net migration isn't impressive.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Well, agreed. But if you look at the population growth that we've had over the past decade, net migration has actually been a challenge in Maryland that we've had for a very long period of time, but we're now actually starting to see a population growth.

• 1:06:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so 2010 to 2013, a net loss of 300,000 residents, 2.3 million leaving and 2 million moving in, so that's net 300,000. Can you pull up by state, Rob? By state, I wonder where Maryland ranks, because to me, 100 million is good, but I think you have a bigger opportunity. You know what would be a very-

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  I agree with you, by the way.

• 1:06:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what would be a very creative story? Your governor till what year? What's the-

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Till 2030. So I'm up for reelection. I'm up for reelection this November.

• 1:07:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You're up for reelection this November, okay.

• 1:07:13Patrick Bet-David?

  And, by the way, you could go through it again and then still run for president. That's something that you can do, right? The answer is yes. The answer is yes, yeah. But you know what would be crazy? Is, you know, when you think about a state like yours, if you made a radical decision to... Okay, what's this one here? 50 states from what year? Since 2010? Florida's at the top. Texas, Carolina, Arizona, South Carolina, Tennessee. Red, red, red, red, red, red, red. You see the red states.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:07:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, they're net, they're gaining. Then you go to, not moderate, go to the bottom. Let's do, okay, bottom is what? Biggest losers? Go to biggest losers? You got California Gavin Newsom, New York Hokel, Mamdani, Illinois, Pritzker, Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, you're at forty-five net migration. Now, two thousand and ten, I'd like to know what it is since you became governor because two thousand and ten is kind of unfair because you were not a governor, you were still in the military.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  I was still in the military, exactly.

• 1:08:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, no, no, that's why I'm saying so it's unfair to judge it from that number. Uh, but I thi- I think some blue states, if a blue state became business friendly, so this is twenty twenty-three to twenty twenty-five, oh wow, Florida jumps to six, Carolina's one, Texas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Georgia, okay, so it's still red, and then go to the bottom, uh, all the way to the bottom, you're still ranked at the same place, forty-fifth, and then bottom, I'm assuming California's still the worst. What could you do to increase net migration? Because data doesn't lie. Why are people leaving certain states and going to red states?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  So, I mean, cost of living is still very much an issue for a lot of places. Now, you know, if you actually took a look and you started looking at things like education levels, if you started looking at things like, uh, you know, uh, you know, the, the attractiveness for corporations to be able to select different places, I think you would actually see more of a flip. You would see where, uh, you know, a lot of those states are at the bottom of that actually have some of the best when it comes to healthcare, best when it comes to education.

• 1:09:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Um, ru- ru- ru- to be fair, Rob, run the report on education. I, I, I wanna, I don't want to be a one-sided, let's run the report on education to see where they rank, where Maryland ranks. But to me, I think, Wes, it's a massive opportunity for business owners. Business owners just are sitting there saying, dude, you don't like me, I will leave, I'll go anywhere and create jobs.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:09:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So what, what can blue states do to get a positive net migration because it's not been happening?

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  So I think there's a few things. One is you've got to be, yeah, and you've got, you've got to be focused on what is it that you are really good at? And I think that's actually been part of the problem. It's, it's the same thing, and I think about it from, from a founder's perspective and from an entrepreneur's perspective, right? Where if I ask a founder, what is it that you do? No founder worth a salt is going to tell me, oh, I do everything. Because then what it's telling me is you're not focused.

• 1:10:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  What does your company do?

• 1:10:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  And why are you best in class? And I think part of the problem is that for a lot of states, that's kind of been the answer. Where if you look at Maryland, Maryland has said, you know, that we have been focusing on the eds, the feds and the meds. Right? That's kind of been Maryland's economic base. And it's been like that for a very long time. One of the things that I've been focusing on is saying, what are we doing to diversify our economy? Because we cannot simply rely on who's sitting in the Oval Office, or if you look at the fact that, you know, in the past year, I've had over thirty-one thousand people fired. Federal workers. You know, and, and so that's more than any state in this country. There's been no state that's been under a greater level of assault that we'll be seeing, uh, from, from this federal administration than Maryland. So we've got to find a way to diversify our economy and quickly.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  And so I decided that I said, here are the things that we are going to target. We're going to target IT, we're going to target life sciences, we're going to target aerospace and defense. It's very clear why, because some of the greatest assets in the country reside and exist in the state of Maryland. And it's insane for us not to be able to compete for those things. I think about, for example, biotech in, you know, in Massachusetts, twenty years ago. They said, you know, we're going to be the home of biotech because we're the home of Harvard, we're the home of MIT, dah dah dah. And so they said, we're going to invest in biotech. And guess what? They became the global head of biotech because they were intentional. We've got to be intentional about the way we're thinking about cyber, about the way we're thinking about AI and quantum, about the way we're thinking about life sciences.

• 1:11:35Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you do that? How do you do that with policies? How do you, how do you make a dramatic policy change today? For a business owner, because here's, there's a massive opportunity to have. You think people from New York want to move to Florida or you think they'd rather move to Maryland? You think people from New York want to make that massive, if some people like East Coast, the cold weather, some people like that area, so.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Proximity to Washington DC.

• 1:11:56Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree. Oh my God, totally. So, so if I was a governor of a blue state like Maryland, and I know New York is royally screwing up, now you may not say it because, you know, it's party lines and you know, you know, some of the stuff that.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  I don't do party lines.

• 1:12:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so I'm just saying, they're, they're really screwing up and I don't know if you would agree with that or not. They're losing business owners, right? New York is losing business owners, so is California. It's a lot easier for me to move from New York to somewhere in Maryland to move down here.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  And frankly, we've seen that, right? We've seen businesses who, you know, for whatever reason, have chosen and chosen Maryland because they like the region.

• 1:12:32Patrick Bet-David?

  They have a negative in that migration. It needs to be bigger than that.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:35Patrick Bet-David?

  It needs to be bigger than that because right now, you know, I'll walk around, I'll go to Palm Beach, okay? And I'll run into, so hey, where are you from? Oh, I'm from Illinois. What part? Chicago. What brought you down here? Taxes, lifestyle, safety. Really? Yeah. Where are you from? New York. Where are you from? California. It is, you know, when I was in California, when I was in Texas, we saw a lot, we moved to Plano, Texas and Addison and Preston Hollow. So you run into a lot of Californians that are leaving. Here, it's a lot of New York, you know, it's a lot of DC, it's a lot of Illinois that you'll run into people, you know? And you see DeSantis. DeSantis created policies that got people to say, you know what? I'm moving to Florida. And in a major way, in a major way.

• 1:13:19Patrick Bet-David?

  But if you guys, a blue state like Maryland, and I think you're reasonable enough to think about ways to bring small business owners in that. You're on the stage 2027, 2028, and it shows, hey, net migration for small business owners. Look what's going on. You're gonna get conservatives who are gonna be like, wait, we have to choose between who and who? Because right now, I think on paper, choosing a Democrat, 10 out of 10 times, I choose you over Newsom, and it's not even close.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Well, and I'll say this, and for me, this has, you know, nothing to do with what anyone else is doing, right? It's about what can we do to make my state win? And I know there's more we've got to do. I know the kind of hole that we had to walk into. I know we walked in with a multi-billion dollar structural deficit and part of the reason is because our state is very good at spending, right? If you look at the seven years before I became the governor, spending in Maryland increased by 70%.

• 1:14:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Seven zero.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Yes, seven years before I became the governor. Seven zero, it's nuts, right? And GDP stayed relatively flat. So I'm like, so hold on. So we were spending. We just weren't growing.

• 1:14:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  And so one thing that so I said, you know, so what do you do to be able to address that? I frankly, just put on my business hat and say, what do you have to do to address it? You have to control your spend. You have to increase your top line. Right? You do those two things that actually increases growth. And so that's what we've had to do. That's why, you know, like we mentioned for four years in a row. Decrease the general fund within the state of Maryland, control your spend. And actually invest in industries that are going to help you to grow. So while we've made movements on those things. There is no doubt, there's still more that needs to get done. And there's a measure of urgency that we've got to move at from our state. That, you know, I, I, you know, for anyone who wants to sit there and say, oh, no, they have it all figured out. Or any of these people have it all figured out. The answer is no, we don't. Because as long as you're dealing with some of those data points, it means we still got work to do.

• 1:15:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think DeSantis is winning?

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  You know, listen, I, I mean, you winning with getting businesses to come down?

• 1:15:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Winning with a lot of different things. Winning with businesses, winning with people that are here who are staying, winning with. You know, younger generation coming that there's many ways Florida's winning right now. Why do you think he's winning?

• 1:15:32Speaker 01

  So I mean, I, I honestly, I have the same way when I have not spent my time digging into other states. I would include Florida in that category. The thing that I, the thing that I do think is this, and here's the thing that I think we want to make sure that we are. Modeling and making an offer for. Is that when people are trying to decide between, okay, am I thinking about Maryland or am I thinking about Florida? I want to be able to leverage the things that I think we have a unique competitive advantage at. So for example. You, there's a, there's a proximity leverage to Washington DC and that whole area that I think we have a specific focus on. I think if you look at things like healthcare, I think if you look at things like education, I think you look at things like. Both K 12 education and higher education. We've got to make sure we're leveraging that. But also we have to make the business community. Feel like they are.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  They are not just welcomed, but supported in that. And that.

• 1:16:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Florida's winning the business community.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So if you take the business community, Florida's winning, Florida's winning in business. Community nationwide, the only one that maybe you can make an argument for is Texas.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Texas, yeah.

• 1:16:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think they're winning? Why do you think Texas and Florida win in the business community?

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Well, I, I think it cannot just simply be, and the answer is not just simply, well, it's just tax policy.

• 1:16:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause I know that's one of them. I don't think it's the only.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  I think, I do think it's one of them. But I think you've also got to be able to compete and win in other areas. So listen, is, is Maryland or any of these other, other places? Are we ever going to say this is going to beat Texas on tax policy? No, right? And, and I, and I don't think that's actually even a realistic expectation. However, do you know what is a realistic, realistic expectation? Find the things that CEOs care about when they're making their decisions. So when I'm speaking to CEOs all the time, and, and listen, I always say, when I go to different places, I, I, my intention, I'm bringing three businesses back with me. Right? So I spend a lot of time talking with CEOs and, cause that's also part of my job and it's also my background. And so when I'm talking and saying like, what are the things that you're most interested in and you're focused on?

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  And they'll talk about tax climate, but in many ways, tax climate for a lot of these states, it's the same when you're, when I was doing banking. And I'm really thankful for the time that I had to do banking, but you realize that whether it was Goldman or Morgan Stanley or Citi offering something. We're talking bips of difference on a deal. A company didn't choose to go to Goldman or Morgan Stanley because one was offering a better deal. Cause generally all the deals were in the similar type of bandwidth in terms of.

• 1:17:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Right. You're, that, that is very small difference.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:17:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Here it's massive.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:17:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I'll give you, I'll give you an idea. I sold, I, I had, I had my business in state of California. And I started hearing California is whispering about clawback taxes. Like you know how Canada does exit tax? I think it's called exit tax. Clawback taxes, my clawback taxes. What do you mean? If you leave, but this, you come back, you have to pay for this. I'm like, wait a minute. I know my business was gonna sell. So I started doing the math. Said, okay, if my business sells for $50 million. I'm gonna have to pay 13.3% here. What's 13.3%? Six and a half million, okay? Six, some, if it sells for a hundred million, I'm saving 13.3 million dollars. I sat there, my wife did not want to leave Cali. She's from Houston, Texas. She does not want to leave. I said, babe, you don't have an option. We're moving to Texas.

• 1:18:40Patrick Bet-David?

  We moved to Texas. Uh, in 2016, we moved to Florida 2021. We sold the business June 27th of 2022 for $250 million. Do you know I owned 88% of the company? 13.3% equals what? If I take 13, let's just do the math right now. So we kind of see how this works. I just want to say how much money was saved? And I'm just giving basic math here, right? If I take 250 times 88%. Okay, times point 133. My kids got an additional $29 million net in my pocket. Why would I stay in California?

• 1:19:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Why, why would I stay in some of these states that I have to pay to the? So people are starting to sit there and say, why would I do so? At the end of the day, people who are small business, I'm not a, not running OpenAI. I'm not, you know, Sergey Brin worth $265 billion or Musk who left California or some of these other, I'm not Ken Griffin in Illinois. I'm a small business owner that grew and I sold it for a good amount. Families got some money. I sat there, I'm like, I'm not paying that $29.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

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• 1:20:19Patrick Bet-David?

  $29 million to California.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  It's a meaningful difference. And that's the thing, right? It's like, and I think part of the thing that we all have to do as chief executives is, is you have to be able to make an argument to business leaders and to, and small business leaders, large, large, large corporations say like, What is staying here worth it to you for?

• 1:20:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me, let me keep more than my money to make the decision instead of giving it to the federal government or the state.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  Or the state, but, but, and it's also, what are the things that you care about? Right? And so part of it is going to be, absolutely, if you.

• 1:20:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Taxes, regulation, talent.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yes, quality of life.

• 1:20:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Quality of life.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  What, where, where do I want my kids to be able to grow up? Where do I want them going to schools? Where, where are they going to feel safe?

• 1:21:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You have his sense of the historic, Maryland has a sense of historic.

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You have baseball, you have Ravens, you have Ori, you have a lot.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  But we have to be also be able to move with a sense of urgency on economic diversification and attractiveness when it comes to businesses. Listen, since I've been the governor, and I'm, and I'm very proud of this, since I've been the governor, we have added over 35,000 new businesses to the state of Maryland. Either businesses that have grown within Maryland or businesses that we've gone and stolen from other states. So we're very, we're, we're happy that we're actually making progress on that front. Since I've been, since I've been the governor, and this is despite watching what's happened with our federal workforce, which I, which I talked about. We've added nearly 100,000 new jobs to the state, to the state of Maryland. And by the way, that's majority, that's a majority private sector jobs that have been added. So we're very happy about that, but I'm also very clear, we've got to move faster.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Because that economic diversification, being able to focus on these new industries of the future, the places that we can uniquely capture that type of alpha and that type of growth for our state is something that we can't compromise on. And I think for too long, we've been a state that has relied on asking more of the people who are there and not producing enough to be able to keep them. And I think if we can change that mindset and change that mentality, as we started making move towards, we know we have more work to do. Uh, I think that's going to be the right answer, particularly in the neighborhood that, um, that we, that we call home as well.

• 1:22:26Patrick Bet-David?

  I think when your age starts with 65, maybe 70, I think we're going to be neighbors in Palm Beach.

• 1:22:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Down here, who knows? I don't think you will be because you have to stay there as a, as a Maryland guy.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  And I, and I, and honestly, and here's the thing, it's like, and I, I, I, I love my state and I love what it offers. And honestly, do you know what I'm trying to do right now? I want to make sure that you don't have to be in Palm Beach. I want to make sure that every single Marylander doesn't feel like they have to go anywhere. I want people to know that Maryland is a place that you don't just want to grow and stay and build, but you want to have your kids in your grandkids.

• 1:23:05Patrick Bet-David?

  You can do something special, man. You can do something as a blue state. You can truly confuse Republicans to say, "This guy Wes Moore is very confusing." What is this guy? You truly have a shot at changing the face of the Democratic Party because it's lost right now. So here's the numbers. I know you can't say anything. Kamala Harris surges in new 2028 poll. A report came out, I think, yesterday. I don't know if you see the... Do they show everybody else underneath the list? Rob, do you have that or no? I know she came up yesterday and they had a list of them.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Oh, here we go.

• 1:23:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Notably, not... No, there was something I saw on X that actually showed percentage where it was. And Kamala was at the top. I'll say this. You don't need to say this.

• 1:23:49Patrick Bet-David?

  There is nowhere where I see her ahead of you. Nowhere. You've ran a state. You were in the military. You've been in the private sector. Okay? Family guy, personal, you know, faith. You understand what people in business go. You're willing to talk to anybody. You don't think you're above everybody. You don't... So to me, you know, that's that part. Pritzker, I don't think he's the guy because he has a lot of things to explain for Illinois. By the way, these are your friends. So I know, you know... Josh Shapiro, I'm a fan of Josh Shapiro. I actually like Josh Shapiro on the Democratic ticket. I think if Biden would have chosen him as a VP, I think it could have been a different result if they would have chosen him. Because this isn't about DEI.

• 1:24:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Like, you're not a DEI hire, even though you're African-American. It's not because you're African-American you became the governor. You're a governor because you kicked everyone's ass. So it's not like it's a DEI hire, which a lot of people would have said that Kamala Harris was a DEI hire. I'm saying it. You're not saying it. I'll take the heat for saying that. And then you go to Newsom with the record. So I don't know, man. I really think you're the number one draft pick for me for 2028. The right marketing, the right campaign, the right timing of the book being launched, podcast tour, going out there, talking to a bunch of guys like this on the podcast on the other end. People seeing how you handle yourself, doing all that other stuff. But, you know, just the same way you went as a governor, where you were at barely 1% on the primary, and then all of a sudden, boom, then you get a call saying, "Wait a minute.

• 1:25:17Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy's the general. Obama's calling you." And then the rest is history.

• 1:25:21Speaker 01

  I'll say this, I, um, one, and you're right, uh, you know, those people who you mentioned,

• 1:25:28Patrick Bet-David?

  They're friends.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  They are friends.

• 1:25:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  And like, and sometimes people like, you know, oh, their political friend, like, some of them are like, legit, like, sometimes when you're really wrestling something, um, you know, being a governor sometimes can be lonely. And there's not many people you can call up who, when you have a conversation with them, you don't always have to provide context. And some of those folks you mentioned are some of the people who I will call up when I don't have time to provide context. And they'll just give me their thoughts and their advice. And so some of them are just legit friends. The thing I will say.

• 1:25:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You're gonna compete against a lot of these guys.

• 1:26:02Speaker 01

  Well, no. Well, the thing I'll say is this, if you ask people, because this is the equivalent of 2020, right? If you ask people in 2020, you went to a Marylander in 2020 and say, you know what? Your next governor is gonna be Wes Moore. You know what most Marylanders would have said? Who the hell is Wes Moore? They had no idea who I was. And so I just think the whole idea of who is the frontrunner, who is this, who is that? In 2026, about 2028, is, um, you know, I, I think history has shown that, um, you know, that that's not something that people pay much attention to.

• 1:26:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you, are you friends with Rubio or, uh, DeSantis or Vance? Is there a friendship? There's a relationship there?

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  There's, there's not as much with, um, there's not as much with them. I, I actually got to know JD years ago. And actually ironically, it was because I wrote a book called The Other Wes Moore. And he wrote a book called Hillbilly Elegy. And there were a couple of times we did things, you know, because they were like, his story is kind of the story of rural poverty. And The Other Wes Moore is the story about urban poverty. And so kind of like this.

• 1:27:08Patrick Bet-David?

  I totally see it.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  Comeback moonstraps, right?

• 1:27:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Totally see it.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  And he was a military guy. He was all this kind of stuff. And I was, and I'm a military guy, even though he was a Marine and I was, I was an army guy.

• 1:27:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Army's always better, by the way.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  I, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, Marines, I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're fine, but.

• 1:27:24Patrick Bet-David?

  We're gonna get in trouble.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know, I know. But, but so I, so I got to know, got to know, you know, him, him through that. You know, the, the, the thing though, that does, if I'm just being totally honest.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  That person who I, you know, got to know, not, not terribly well, but got to know them.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Just doesn't seem like the same person that I'm seeing right now.

• 1:27:50Patrick Bet-David?

  JD?

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me why.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Because I just feel like the, the foundation feels different. And that's one thing I always tell people is like, I remember telling my team. When I first ran for governor, I said, listen, y'all, most people don't know who I am.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  I have no problem introducing myself, I would spend all day long introducing myself to people who don't know me.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  I won't spend a second reintroducing myself to people who do know me. But I take pride in, you know, when people's like, when I'm all done with this politics thing.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Do you know the comment that is gonna make me the happiest? If people are like, he's the same dude. Like I've known Wes for 20 years, he hasn't changed. He is who he is. You like him, dislike him. But he is who he is. And he's comfortable in his own skin. Like that's what I want people to always believe in me.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  I don't know if I can say that about JD.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  And that is not disappointing. It's actually kind of heartbreaking.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Cause I think that's just tough. And I think that's a really tough existence.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  But, um, but you know, but I, but again, you know, like we talked about before, some of these other Republican governors. I mean, Stitt, Spencer Cox in Utah, like, oh, these are, these are my guys, man. I mean, and people who I just really. Lean on, laugh with.

• 1:29:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you understand to speak a lot, or no?

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Not at all, because he doesn't do a lot with the National Government Association.

• 1:29:22Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a low-key guy, yeah.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does not do a lot with the National Government Association at all.

• 1:29:26Patrick Bet-David?

  At all?

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  Which is, and I'm not gonna lie, and I hope he hears me on this. Like, it is a bit disappointing, because I think it could add value to him, and I think he could add value to it. And so, especially as I'm taking on as Chair of the National Government Association in June, I would love to have Ron more active in the organization.

• 1:29:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you called him? Have you guys reached out to him?

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  I haven't reached out to him about this.

• 1:29:53Patrick Bet-David?

  At all? Like, reaching out and talking to him? Or just about this specifically?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  No, just about this specifically.

• 1:29:57Patrick Bet-David?

  So you guys have spoken?

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we've spoken. We've met each other, we've spoken, so, absolutely.

• 1:30:02Patrick Bet-David?

  No issues when you guys speak?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:30:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Mutual respect?

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  No, no, absolutely.

• 1:30:07Patrick Bet-David?

  But you know what, though? Ron, you know, he's not a, like, you know, to me, he's such an operator and a doer that he is very much in it. He's, you know how you say, "in the business, on the business"? He is so in it, right? Where you, you know, you going out there shaking hands, talking to people, doing your thing, you know, you're being seen. I think he can probably work on doing that more, and this is my guy. This is a guy that I support in a big way. So, especially if he wants to go on to the national scale, you know, you have to be seen with guys on the other side. It can't just be only conservatives.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  You're talking for Ron?

• 1:30:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm talking for Ron. I'm not talking to you, because you're doing it with, and you'll go, you know, if you come in here, you'll go anywhere. So it's not like you'll go, you know, but, you know, I'm sure you know behind closed doors that I like you, and I'm sure we know, like, we've had the conversation with these different guys that we are friends with, because I think you're a fair guy. Let me talk to you, as a military guy, Afghanistan, what do you think about what's going on with Iran? I'm actually curious. What's your opinion? Because that's more of a foreign, you know, do you think that could have been prevented? Are you somebody that's saying, you know, you support the President, what he's doing? What's your position on that?

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  It absolutely could have been prevented, and then the problem, so I have a few different issues with it. One is, for example, I was actually a fan publicly, and I know some people got on me about it, about Midnight Hammer. I was like, I think that's a smart operation. I think it was, there was risk analysis. I think there was enough international consensus and coalition about a need to be able to address it. And at least from what we heard from the initial reports, it accomplished the set out, established mission, right? I think that's necessary and required for military operations, right? That we're clear about what is the consensus and the goal.

• 1:32:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Specific for Iran to not have nuclear capabilities.

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:32:06Patrick Bet-David?

  For that reason.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  And I thought Midnight Hammer was the right kind of operation.

• 1:32:10Patrick Bet-David?

  With the outcome of eliminating Iran having nuclear weapons.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:32:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Capabilities.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  And I think there is a, at least I believe, there's a bipartisan consensus of the danger of the Iranian regime having nuclear weapons, right? And I very much fall into that, that category. I am, I am not confused about the danger that that regime posed to the world. The truth is, probably both for you and myself, we lost people because of the Iranian regime, right? So I'm very clear on that. There's a difference between Midnight Hammer and what we're doing right now. Because Midnight Hammer, I understood, risk calculation and understood like, what was it that we are looking to accomplish? And once the mission accomplishment was laid out, then the operation is complete.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  No mission creeps. Cause there's nothing that worries me as a military guy more than mission creep. What is the mission? Know what to accomplish? And then once it's accomplished, if you have something else, that's a secondary operation. This is no mission creeps. With this mission, I feel like there's three things we should know every time you decide to deploy military personnel. One, was military force and kinetic force the last option? Two, what is the end state and the mission that people can understand and that you're able to bring the American people along for it as well? Because the American people are paying for this. I mean, we saw testimony today indicating that, you know, and this is, this is, you know, DOD's numbers, where they're talking about this has cost around $25 billion so far.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  Have we really explained to the American people what $25 billion has gone towards? And the third thing is, is that what is the international coalition that you're building around it? Now, I'm not saying there needs to be an international coalition to be able to fight wars, because the truth is, the US military is one on one. If the US military is coming after you, there's nothing you can do. We're that good. We're that good, right? We are one of one. However, it takes a coalition not to fight the war, but to build the peace. Right? Because one side can start a war. Generally, one side cannot end it. That's where we need to have a sense and a consensus of what this thing is going to look like.

• 1:34:24Patrick Bet-David?

  You're referencing NATO? Is that a NATO message?

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  No, I think it's past NATO. And first of all, I actually think it starts more with the regional partners. Right? Because I think, is NATO going to be important in it? Yeah. But I think NATO also has his hands full in other things. I'm talking about the regional partners. I'm like, are we making sure that we're getting the UAE involved? Are we making sure, what has been the conversations with Pakistan? What has been the conversations with Saudi Arabia? What has been the conversations with Egypt and all the other part of Israel? All these other partners that are going to have to be involved in this? And I feel like when you're thinking about all those three criteria, was kinetic operation the last option? Was there a stated end goal and a stated, you know, real mission accomplishment of what this is going to look like?

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  And did you do the work to be able to build out the intercollegial coalitions? I think the answer on all three of those is no. And that's what makes me so bothered about where we are right now, where I think there is no one who wants this war to end more right now than Donald Trump. He wants this over. But again, one side can start a war. Generally, one side can't end it.

• 1:36:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you support what he did with Venezuela? Because I know Midnight Hammer he said yet. Did you like the way he did Venezuela? In, out, got Maduro, boom, took control. You like the way he did Venezuela?

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  I, I, I think that um.

• 1:36:13Patrick Bet-David?

  That was like a ridiculous operation, the way they did it.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  It was a ridiculous military operation.

• 1:36:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:36:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:19Speaker 01

  I think the thing that society can't confuse though is, again, our military can kind of do anything. While our military can do anything, I don't think our military should do everything. And I would actually put that in the same category, right? Where if you say, listen, the job is to go take out Maduro. And the job is to make sure that you are securing the capital and the jobs. Our military can do that all day long and twice on Sundays. But what becomes the larger conversation that is then being had about basic measurements of stability? About what does this thing look like in six months and 12 months and in 18 months?

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  And if the answer is, and the answer is simply that, well, you're still looking at the same type of abuses. And maybe what now we've gotten some, you know, some more barrels of oil out of it. Is that worth that potential risk and cost analysis?

• 1:37:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  And that's the thing, I don't know.

• 1:37:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh buddy, if you, if you think about like, go, go to the other side of the argument. Because I do think there's a lot of uncertainty with this. Fair enough, that's, that's not indisputable. 13 lives cost, you know, 25 billion dollars. I even think it's more than 25 billion. But let's just say low numbers 25, I thought it's like 51 billion. But let's say 50.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:37:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Because I remember it came up, yeah. So, uh, uh, if I think about the way he did it. So he whispers Greenland, people lose their minds. Okay, why did he say Greenland? Well, we need the resources from there because of China. Okay, so he goes, gets Venezuela and he's doing all the boats and everyone's getting upset. And all of a sudden, boom, we got Maduro. So then suddenly Venezuela is part of OPEC. We're not part of OPEC. Venezuela is, I think they're number seven for the most production out of everybody.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:37:59Patrick Bet-David?

  And then. He gets the Panamanian president to tell China and C K Hutchinson, get these ports out. You have no longer jurisdiction here. So you mean to tell me they no, no, they don't. China does, that's massive. So that's two. So now China cannot bully us with Panama Canal and China needs Venezuela. Now Venezuela is under control of US pretty much. If you think about it, the VP reports to him and then he goes and does this to Iran. If he's able to pull this off, we're now with the blockade. Every day Iran is bleeding $450 million, 12 to 13 billion dollars per month. 1 million jobs lost directly, another million lost indirectly. Food prices 67% up year over year. They're getting destroyed.

• 1:38:43Patrick Bet-David?

  All the people that have been gone. The leader went and met with Putin a couple of days ago, taking a picture together, a conversation. Make sure Putin's like, I got your back. If he's able to get the IRGC to be gone, where now Gulf states are supporting what he's doing. UAE now left OPEC. You better believe UAE's got a relationship with Trump that they're talking offline and saying, hey, don't worry about it. I'm going to get you a bunch of business. Leave it, you're going to be fine. OPEC is now sitting there because OPEC is Iran, Iraq, all these other guys, right? Because number one is Saudi, number two is Iraq, three is, used to be Iran. Now it's UAE and four is, I think, Iran. If he's able to get this thing done and get rid of IRGC. Let's say in the next six weeks, story drops, IRGC is gone.

• 1:39:27Patrick Bet-David?

  They signed a 20 year no nuclear capabilities. They're doing nothing. And we have partners where nobody can come and do anything with us in, in straight up horn moves. We're good to go. Now we just shipped 910,000 barrels to Japan that just arrived today or a couple of days ago. So now people are ordering from us and China's sitting there saying, wait a minute. I can't get my oil out of Iran, straight up horn moves. I can't get oil from Venezuela. I can't, wait a minute, I'm cornered now. Don't you, would you be able to comfortably give him the credit on this? If that ends up happening, if it's a big if, 5 to 10% chance of that happening, but if it happens.

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  I, I, I actually don't think it's 5 to 10%.

• 1:40:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You think it's less?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Okay. However, of course.

• 1:40:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Listen, if, if, if all of those variables are in place.

• 1:40:16Patrick Bet-David?

  All right.

• 1:40:17Speaker 01

  Then that would be extraordinary.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  But here is, but here's what we know right now is right now we have a total blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, which is having very real consequences and again, not just in the United States. When people say, yeah, it's having huge impact on gas prices in the US. Yes, I mean, gas prices, what's over 420 now on national average, but, but that's just the US. This is having huge international implications, right? That we still have military personnel that are being deployed to include my old unit and I believe to include the 101st as well. And people, remember, that's not free. Like every time our units move, the American people are paying for this.

• 1:41:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But these Gulf states want IRGC to be gone.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:41:04Patrick Bet-David?

  If we're able to do that, that's massive.

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  But we also know that we're talking about a regime that at the start of the year, right, when we had an uprising and there were, what, 20, 25,000 people, that this regime just mowed down and massacred. What we haven't seen since in the past 60, 70 days is the same type of uprising. We haven't seen it.

• 1:41:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, the internet is still not there, so we still can't see anything. They don't know what's going on.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Fair. But, but we haven't seen that same, and you're right, the internet's not there, so we'd so, but, and I don't know if you believe that that energy is happening right now.

• 1:41:43Patrick Bet-David?

  The uprising internally?

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  Intern, sorry, internally, yes.

• 1:41:45Patrick Bet-David?

  No, they have, the challenge they have with that, which is to give you credit on the argument, is they thought the military would flip on them and decide to go and say, look, well, I'm not with you, IRGC, whatever you guys are doing, I'm out. That hasn't happened yet. And the weapons that we tried to give the Kurds, they kept it, it never went to the people.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:42:05Patrick Bet-David?

  So that part, I, I agree that that part's, and then Reza Pahlavi is doing a pretty good job, you know, going out there, speaking, he's going viral, but quite frankly, mobilizing military hasn't happened. The people have come out, the people have come out for a lot of things, but the mobilizing part with the military side hasn't happened.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  And unfortunately, you know, as we find in these situations, the guys with the guns generally have the bigger voice.

• 1:42:29Patrick Bet-David?

  You're right.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  And that's the issue that we're facing right now, is that, is, you know, when people talk about, well, what is going to be the regime change? For me, regime change is less about personnel, it's more about ideology. Right, it's like you could have a regime change of people, but do conditions change for the people? And listen, take, take, take other examples. Take, uh, um, take Cuba, right? Take the Cuban example after Fidel died, right? Fidel died, Raul takes over, that's a regime change. But was it? And I think the, we have to really think critically about what that means and about what the goal then becomes and what it looks like.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Because the same type of energy that we were seeing at the start of the year, when it comes to people really uprising, and then that's when I think there was a hope for people that the United States and others would come up and support that. And tens of thousands of people were killed. So that same energy is not there right now, which is not providing any forms of incentive for a regime change in its real meaning to actually exist right now for the urgency.

• 1:43:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Very low, I'm saying five to 10%. You're saying lower. You're probably right that the chances is slim, but that's even more of a thing that if he does pull it off, I am so curious to know how the critics are gonna come out and say, "Mr. President, credit to you for pulling it off." I'm curious to know what's gonna happen there.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Will you hear me right now?

• 1:44:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, no, I respect that. And I don't, I don't put you as a critic. I actually think you're a reasonable player. I'm talking about the guys that there's nothing that anybody can do right. You're not in that state. You're, you're a fairly reasonable guy.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  Now, I will say one thing, though. I still think, though, that there needs to be a bigger conversation in Congress about how they are looking at war powers. Because, and again, to be clear, this is not a Trump thing. We, our last official war is World War II. So you're trying to tell me the United States has not been in conflicts since World War II? We've been in conflicts every year since World War II. But the president has the flexibility to be able to do it. Now, do I think there needs to be a bigger, do I think a president needs flexibility? Because a president is dealing with more information than anyone in Congress.

• 1:44:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 1:44:44Speaker 01

  And more, and definitely more than any of us, right? So a president needs to have a measure of flexibility.

• 1:44:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I want him to have it.

• 1:44:49Speaker 01

  I want him to, right? And that's why elections matter.

• 1:44:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Have consequences, yeah.

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  However, um, when we're talking about large-scale, long-term conflicts, for there not to be an ability for other bodies to have a say as to what's going on, the fact that we were in Afghanistan for 20 years.

• 1:45:12Speaker 01

  And never had to go and explain what was happening in Afghanistan. And again, I think about this from a very personal perspective. We were there for 20 years. Spent over 2.4 trillion dollars. Lost over 2,400 service people. And never had to, you know, qualified as a war. Say that to the 20, to the families of over 2,400 people. Say that to the fact that our treasury lost over 2 trillion dollars. So there's gotta be, there has to be a different type of conversation about where does jurisdictional prudence for a commander in chief start?

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  And when does authorizing ability for a president of the United States begin? Cause I do think those things have gotten very, very muddied over the years. And again, this is not a democratic or political.

• 1:46:08Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, you have the support with that message of a lot of people who are with you on that. You wasted wars, money for no reason, weapons of mass destruction, all this stuff that we fell for. You got a guy over there, Vincent O'Shaughnessy, that's probably listened to this podcast. If he hasn't already left, he's sitting down right now. He was in the air force. He was the airman of the year in the air force, right there. He's looking at the glasses, him right there. He, for that specific reason, Afghanistan wasted time. He's like, dude, I can't even support that. So he's conflicted.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:37Patrick Bet-David?

  And he's a Trump supporter. He's conflicted like, like what are we doing here? So I don't think you're alone there. Let me ask the last thing. And then I gotta ask the most important question above it all, which is the Kobe Bryant. We have to get to that here in a minute. But so the moment you came in, I was in meetings, my phone's blown up. Did you see what President Obama just tweeted? I'm like, what did he just tweet? So just so you know, I haven't even looked into this. So we're both going green into this. And I'm curious to know what you're gonna say about this. So President Obama tweeted this.

• 1:47:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, two hours and 14 minutes before you and I started the podcast. Today's Supreme Court decision effectively guts a key pillar of the Voting Rights Act, freeing state legislatures to gerrymander legislative districts to systematically dilute and weaken the voting power of racial minorities so long as they do it under the guise of partisanship rather than an explicit racial bias, and it serves as just one more example of how a majority of the current court seems intent on abandoning its vital role in ensuring equal participation in our democracy and protecting the rights of minority groups against minority overreach. The good news is that such setbacks can be overcome, but that will only happen if citizens across the country who cherish our democratic ideals continue to mobilize

• 1:47:45Patrick Bet-David?

  and vote in record numbers, not just in the upcoming midterms or in high-profile races, but in every election and every level. If you want to go to the story, Rob, so I can read it and I'll turn it over to you. So, New York Times, "The Supreme Court weakens a landmark civil rights era law and aids GOP efforts to control the House." If you want to go a little bit lower, "Supreme Court on Wednesday hollowed a landmark civil rights era law that increased minority representation in Congress and elsewhere, striking down the majority-black congressional district in Louisiana and opening the door for more redistricting across the country that could aid Republicans' effort to control the House." Ruling 63, the court's conservative majority found that Louisiana's district, represented

• 1:48:27Patrick Bet-David?

  by Democrat Cleo Fields, relied too heavily on race, and Chief Justice John Roberts described the sixth congressional district as "a snake that stretches more than 200 miles to link parts of Shreveport, Alexandria, Lafayette, and Baton Rouge. The map is an unconstitutional gerrymander," said Samuel Alito, wrote for six conservatives. And if you show the map, Rob, I think there's a breakdown by New York Times. If you want to go to the New York Times article, that if Connor hasn't sent it to you yet, uh, New York Times, what should you put in it? I think the main, uh, while I'm talking to, um...

• 1:49:04Patrick Bet-David?

  The governor, he sent it to me. It's a New York Times story. I don't know if you have it or not. So is that the one? Okay, while you're doing this, what are your thoughts about this, the story and what Barack Obama just said?

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  So I think what President Obama said is absolutely correct. Where it is just, it feels very odd that you can say that we are okay with partisan gerrymandering, but no other forms, especially when you consider the fact that over 92% of this country has congressional maps that are not competitive. This country is so gerrymandered. And it's actually embarrassing in the way that it's been gerrymandered. I have long believed that we need national registering reform. Because this is not okay, where we continue to have politicians that are picking their voters, instead of voters picking their politicians. We need to have national gerrymandering reform.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  I also know that what's happening right now, and what we are continuing to see, and why this is such a heated issue for a lot of people, is you think about what's happening right now in just the past year. Where these decisions that are being made by the Trump Vance administration on going after these basic democratic frameworks, right? The idea that we should nationalize elections, even though we know that's unconstitutional. Like, part of the beauty of the Constitution is, there are state rights. We are in control of our elections. So we should not be nationalizing elections. The idea that somehow we should get rid of mail-in balloting, which actually, we sued, Maryland. I sued the Trump administration on this, and we're gonna win in court on this, because

• 1:50:43Speaker 01

  the president and the federal government does not have the authority to do that. That when the president's talking about things like, "Well, we should take control of the ballot boxes, and we need your voter rolls," again, unconstitutional. The fact that the president is calling up- Florida and Texas and Missouri and North Carolina and saying you all should do mid decade redistricting. By the way, everyone else, you can't. But you all should do it. This is blatant. What is happening right now. And what's happening right now is this, this is an assault on the basic democratic framework and the basic democratic values. And so I, I, I, I think what the president

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  said is not just President Obama, what he said is not just factual, but I think he highlights the bigger concern that a lot of us have about some of these actions that are then taking place. When you look at that decision, the, the, the decision around, around Louisiana and the Supreme Court decision, um, this was happening because there was just a, a, a, a basic and an intentional and a racialized gerrymandering that was then taking place that was disenfranchising black voters. So they're saying, we have to come up with ways of being able to make sure that black voters after the passage of the Civil Rights Act would actually be enfranchised and be able to be part of this, of like, of this electoral system. Um, by doing this, by this action, this does represent one of

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  the largest forms of political redlining that we have now seen in generations. And so, um, I am very much for national redistricting reform. I think Congress on so many different levels, Congress is just completely failing to do its job. This is the most unproductive Congress, not to mention the fact that this Congress has actually been out of work this year more than they've been in work.

• 1:52:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Lowest, lowest approval rating Congress has had in the history.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Well, how can you get high approval rating when you're not at work? Like, the government has been shut down longer than it's been open this year. This Congress is almost laughable, what is happening right now. And I think when you're looking at what's happening with our Congress, they need to be taking up this issue and they are not. And so we continue now seeing how states are then doing this continual race to a bottom because there's just no type of guidance that we're getting from Congress.

• 1:53:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, when you think about gerrymandering, it's three ways, right? Partisan, racial, and bipartisan. Very rarely is there bipartisan gerrymandering, but it happens every once in a while. And so this one's more on the racial side. Can you go back to the New York Times article you pulled up? So meaning if this passes, just to put it out there, this case hands the House to the Republicans, Democrats who hold 24 seats in Louisiana.

• 1:53:27Patrick Bet-David?

  You mean to tell me that 24 is gonna go to 12?

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Republicans gain 12 more seats? Just in this state, Rob? Does this apply to any other state? Or is it just the Louisiana case that they're talking about here?

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  I believe, according to this chart, it says the states. So I think it's Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.

• 1:53:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So all of those states combined, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, all of them, Democrats hold 24. After this, Republicans get 12 more seats.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  And if you look at this map, right? This, if you look at the 24, even that's just a fraction of this map, right? But then you take a look at, to the right side. Look at that. Is that, is that really what we think is fair representation?

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  And this, this becomes the, the challenge. And by the way, it's actually not even just about the states. What it's also doing is you're now setting a legal precedent that you're gonna now have other states who are then going to try to navigate this. It's the same reason why the Supreme Court earlier proved because of their ruling that partisan gerrymandering is allowed, that partisan gerrymandering is legal. So you saw how other states were then moving and using and being completely blatant about the fact that it's like, yep, this is a partisan gerrymander. I want, I want three more seats. I want three more Republican seats. I want three more Democratic seats. And do you know why they were unafraid to say that? Was because of precedent. So now this is adding on a whole new layer of precedent.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

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• 1:55:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, because gerrymandering is what, once every 10 years?

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  Correct, on the census.

• 1:55:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Once every 10 years on the census.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  On the census.

• 1:55:30Patrick Bet-David?

  And typically, who gets criticized the most? Illinois, I believe, is one of them, right? Can you go to Illinois gerrymandering? Because they have like a monopoly on their house, on their representatives, if I'm not mistaken. The, the, the numbers in Illinois, it has to be... What is the number? I think it's honestly like 86% is on the Democratic side in the state of Illinois. 14-3. So 14-3 is what it is with Illinois, if I'm not mistaken. Is it? Yeah, 14-3. So Illinois congressional, I don't know, Democrats created a 14-3 to Republicans when they did this in 2021. And so, often cited as one of the most aggressive gerrymanderers in the US. It packs Republican voters into a few districts, reducing GOP seats from 5 to only 3.

• 1:56:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, California tried to do it as well. And they're at 43-9. Can you tap in, same thing in California, I think it's 43-9. If they were able to pass it in California, it would be 48-4, which means California is going to be controlled on the left for god knows how long. I want to say they're right now at 43-9 with the... Yep, 43-9. And if they pass it. So, you know, people will say this happens on both sides. It happens on both sides. And if they could do it, they would do it. And by the way, there's, there's groups of people on both sides that are like, "I hate gerrymandering. Let's put a stop to it. None of this should be happening. Let go of it. Left, right, center, just let the people vote the way they're voting. We don't need to be doing this part." And there's a lot of people on the Republican and Democratic side.

• 1:56:58Patrick Bet-David?

  And then there's a people that are like, "If you're gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. If Priska did it, I'm gonna do it." And then, you know, there's no stopping there.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  And, and, and this becomes the problem with this larger political system? That it's not even just the back and forth, right? Because, because you do have the issue of the back and forth. And but, and, and let's be clear. Like, I understand why you have the back and forth, because you cannot have people who are just trying to rob an election in front of your face, and you're just sitting there and taking it.

• 1:57:24Patrick Bet-David?

  I gotta get you to dinner, so...

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  No, no, but, but, but, you know, but...

• 1:57:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Finish that thought.

• 1:57:27Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm lost. But, but, but, so you can't, you can't let that be the case. You've got to be able to fight. You've got to be able to fight, particularly when, when our democracy is on the line. Yet at the same time... We need Congress to put an end to this. Because this type of, these type of actions, what are happening right now. The fact that you have districts in Maryland, in my state, that are just not competitive. That when a person wins a primary, that's it. It's over. They're not gonna lose in a general. And unfortunately, that's the way it works in the vast majority of these congressional districts all across the country, and even in my state. Where the biggest competition you're gonna have is a primary. But once you win a primary, you're good.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  And that, that includes both Democratic seats in my state, and it includes the Republican seat inside of my state. Because this packing that oftentimes takes place, like, we've gotta be better as a country. And I think we, and we need to, but until we get Congress to do something so basic, just do your job, guys. Until we get that, we end up getting this.

• 1:58:34Patrick Bet-David?

  This is, this is, this is massive. This is massive for something like this. But, listen, Republicans are probably celebrating. This is massive, but this is one of those things where, no, no, I, I'm with you, where there's a lot of people that agree with you that this is not okay. Last story. Your team's texting me, you got a dinner to get to, I'm gonna get you to dinner.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  That was great.

• 1:58:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Share your story with Kobe, I wanna know the Kobe Bryant stuff, cuz I, you know, you know Kobe and I, you know, we had a-

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  Did you know him?

• 1:58:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, we had a-

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Oh, you interviewed him?

• 1:58:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, we have a very, very good relationship. It was a devastating day for us when we, when, when it happened. And, you know, he was, he's one of a kind, man. I mean, I'm a, I'm a, you know, I'm a, I'm a diehard, diehard Kobe fan and what he did, so, but what's your story with Kobe?

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  He was, he was one of a kind, bro. And I'm gonna lie, I mean, he was, when, he was coming out of high school, cuz that's where, for when I first got a chance to meet him, when he was actually a high school senior. And, um, and another true story, I did not think he was gonna be as good as, cuz he was very good in high school. But I was always like, ah, his jump shot isn't quite there, and I'm thinking like, you're going to the NBA, like, shows how much I know about fricking basketball. Um, cuz also, you can never measure someone's work ethic. Yeah, that's he is in Lower Merin. So that was the Kobe that I got a first chance, got a chance to meet.

• 1:59:52Speaker 01

  His cousin slash friend, he said he was his cousin, I think that's right, played for my high school team. And he was like, listen, you know, Bean and I are going out to a movie. You want to come out? I was like, yeah, of course. So I'm a high school senior, Kobe's a high school senior, and our buddy's a high school senior. We go out to a movie, go buy our movie tickets, sitting there getting popcorn. And this was, I'm trying to remember if he had just declared for the draft, or he was right before he declared for the draft. But Kobe was the thing in, you know, the suburbs of Philadelphia and everywhere else, but you know.

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  So somebody comes up and is like, hey, can I get an autograph? Like, yeah. And two more people, and four more people. Now there's just a crowd around Kobe. And I'm sure this is not a very comfortable thing for Kobe, because he's like, we just want to go get a, go to a movie. And, and but the truth is Kobe was what, like 6'6" or some of that, you know, our buddy was 6'9". And so

• 2:00:57Patrick Bet-David?

  You can't miss them.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  You can't. You can't miss them. And so, and finally Kobe just kind of, you know, goes to, you know, goes to my teammate and he's like, and he was something, then he comes over to me and he's like, hey, do you mind if we just get out of here? Because I think Kobe at that point realized this is not going to be a fun evening anymore. So he was like, I was like, yeah, no problem. And my buddy was like, but don't worry, we'll, we'll give you the money back for your, for the movie ticket. Because like, we're in high school, man. It's like, that's not, whatever it was back then, five bucks, six bucks.

• 2:01:26Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a lot of money.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  That's a lot of money back then. So I'm like, okay, yeah, cool. Don't worry about it. And I never forgot the fact that I never got my money back, because I was always like, yo, like, I really want my money back.

• 2:01:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the movie, bud? What were you guys going to, do you remember the movie or no?

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  I can't even remember at this point, but it was, it was 1996 and, you know, I

• 2:01:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you ever see him again? Was there any, any other account?

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  I never saw him again. I never, and, and I always said, I, I really hope I get a chance to see him, because I want to share that story with him.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  But the thing that I loved about Kobe and why I was such a fan is

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  He completely understood that to be great, it means sacrifice.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  It means that if you really want to be great at something,

• 2:02:15Speaker 01

  it means the other stuff might have to go off to the side. And not everyone's gonna like it. Not everybody's gonna understand it. You will get judged. You will get criticized. Lock it out. And that Mamba mentality that he brought to basketball, that I think he brought to the business world after he was done with basketball, is actually a really important lesson learned. Because whether you are a soldier with 101st or an entrepreneur,

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  you gotta block stuff out. There are things that other people are gonna say, "Hey, Patrick, let's go." No, can't. I'm working. Or there's gonna be people with distractions saying like, "This person said this about you." Don't care. Focused. There is something that I think he provided such a beautiful lesson to humanity about if you want to be great,

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  know what that looks like and know what's required. And that's the only way you can ever actually achieve your greatness.

• 2:03:23Patrick Bet-David?

  And I think you're gonna have some Mamba mentality between, I hope you bring it out in 27, 28. I want to see what you're gonna do. You know, I'm stirring a pot, but a part of me wants to see you up there, man. I can't wait. You're gonna be up there. I'm gonna be like, "What?"

• 2:03:38Patrick Bet-David?

  But I'm excited for it. Truly, I truly enjoy talking to you. And I know I would. I knew I would when we, everybody would tell me, "You're gonna love this guy. You're gonna love this guy.

• 2:03:49Patrick Bet-David?

  You're a class act. Just talking to you, man, just hearing, you know, your story, your background, what you've done. You're telling me my story off the camera. One of the best stories. 18 years, can you imagine like if it happens one day and it's like, it started off with this? It'd be one of the greatest success stories of all time. Appreciate your time. Appreciate you for coming out. Is there a site? Is there anything you want people to go to? Is there anything where if people want to see more things that you're working on? Is there anything we want? A drive to.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, um, well, if you, if people go to, to westmore.com, they can see a lot of the stuff that we're doing. Uh, and also just some of the work that we're doing, uh, that we're doing in Maryland. Uh, you can go to, to Maryland.gov and you get a chance to see exactly what we're working on. Uh, all of our social stuff is, is, uh, at, um, both I am Westmore and also Gov Westmore.

• 2:04:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Put everything below Rob so the audience can find him.

• 2:04:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, but I, I think, you know, listen, and I, and I'll, um, I'll say, I'll say this, this, this one thing if it's okay to, um. You know, I really believe that God doesn't make mistakes on stuff. Right. Whether we fully understand it or appreciate it, and sometimes we can even push back against it. It's like, God is in charge of everything. And I think that this moment is, it is a really complicating moment for people. And I think for a lot of people, it's a scary moment. I think for a lot of people, it's an uncertain moment. I mean, we didn't even get a chance to talk about AI and some technology and, and some of the things that I'm incredibly excited about. And some things that I am, I want folks to pay attention because we have not seen a technology like this. And I think we have to be very clear about the type of guardrails that we need to think about.

• 2:05:23Speaker 01

  However, I think about even in our most complicating moments in our nation's history. There have been two things that have gotten us through. It's been God's grace and moral leadership. That's it.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  Everything falls into those things. God's grace, moral leadership. If we can lean on those two things inside of this moment. I think it's just important to remind people that we've seen tough times before and we were okay before. We'll be okay again.

• 2:05:57Patrick Bet-David?

  My man. Excited about this conversation. I wasn't expecting it to go this good. Take care, everybody. Go to his website, subscribe. God bless everybody. Take care. Bye bye, bye bye. When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function and luxury. We had the choice to make it fast. We had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscanyero. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled painters. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the Future Looks Bright Collection.

• 2:06:37Patrick Bet-David?

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