Part Three: Jimmy Savile: Britain's Unending Nightmare

Now Jimmy Saville is at the top of the world: he's become a radio and TV star and found his way into the Royal family's good graces. Now we see what he does with power and access. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Call Zone Media.

• 0:04Robert Evans?

  Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the very worst people in all of history. We are starting our second week, Parts Three and Four, on one of the bastardest bastards we'll ever do on this show, Jimmy Savile, British broadcaster and pedophile extraordinaire. And to talk with me about the latter and worst parts of Jimmy's life and career as a fucking monster, the great Courtney Kosak. Welcome back, Courtney.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Yay. Thank you so much for having me.

• 0:35Robert Evans?

  Yeah, thanks for being on. And you've got a book, a book that we talked about in the first two parts, but are going to plug again.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Dear God, if you guys haven't already bought my book, please do. It is called Girl Gone Wild. It is about trying to make it in Hollywood. It's an unwitting feminist coming of age, and it's the perfect antidote to what you're about to hear right now.

• 0:57Robert Evans?

  Beautiful.

• 1:00Speaker 03

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• 1:34Robert Evans?

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• 2:18Robert Evans?

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• 2:42Robert Evans?

  Well, I guess we can't delay it anymore.

• 2:47Robert Evans?

  So, last episode, we kind of ended by talking about one of the girls that Jimmy impregnated. She was, this one was 16. There's a number. I came across at least two stories in the, I mean, at least two direct stories and insinuations of a lot more. I don't think we'll ever have an idea of how many girls he impregnated. I'm going to guess often, generally, they had stories like the lady we talked about where they get an illegal abortion. They have health consequences afterwards. Like, that's a, I think, probably how a lot of these went. I'm going to guess Jimmy paid for a good number of those over the years.

• 3:24Robert Evans?

  But the same year that happened, which was 1964, the London Metropolitan Police received a report about a flat in London that was being used to pimp out children, little girls, who had, well, not little girls. I think they were mostly like in their teens, but girls who were, in many cases, underage, who had escaped from a nearby facility for, I wrote, for a facility for female juvenile offenders. That's not entirely accurate. It was called the Duncroft Approved School. And we'll talk about it more later, but it's, some of these girls got in legal trouble, you know, committing some sort of crimes while underage. Some of them are just, have behavioral problems.

• 4:02Robert Evans?

  This place seems to be a mix of like, a juvenile reform school and a place, kind of one of those like troubled teen camps that parents send their kids to if they're not obeying enough, right? And so, some of these girls are escaping from the Duncroft School, and they're winding Up at this flat where they're being pimped out as child prostitutes. And the London Met bust this place in 1964. And in their notes at the time, there's like detectives write that Jimmy Savile was a repeat visitor to the home while it was operational as

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Jimmy.

• 4:36Robert Evans?

  A pedophile brothel, right? Um, they don't go after him or anything. He doesn't get charged with anything. They're just like, oh, Jimmy Savile's going to this, this brothel for children. An awful lot.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  It's a famous teenage brothel. Wow.

• 4:49Robert Evans?

  Yeah. This, yeah, this brothel for teenage girls who have gotten in trouble with the law. Interesting. Not worth looking into further. Um, so that does though beg the question, how did he get away with this? And Davies gives us a good idea of how in his book, In Plain Sight, when he describes an interview where Jimmy discussed one time that he nearly got arrested because, and Jimmy's telling this to a reporter as like for laughs, basically. And he talks about this story where like, well, there's always these, a lot of underage girls hanging out around my office. And I got in trouble at some point, like someone called the police about it because they thought it was suspicious. And so I had to sit down for an interview with the police chief. And I told him, you know that your 16 year old daughter comes in here, don't you?

• 5:31Robert Evans?

  Would you rather she was safe with me or being preyed on by all those scumbags and slags?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  What?

• 5:36Robert Evans?

  Again, he tells the journalist this, and I think like the seventies or the eighties. He's just like, yeah, you know, people get angry at me for all the underage girls I hang out around, but some of them are the children of cops, you know?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  I'm just here to protect them.

• 5:49Robert Evans?

  I'm here to keep them safe. They get into trouble if they weren't around Jimmy Savile.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. My gosh.

• 5:56Robert Evans?

  Good times. So Roger Holt, Roger, yeah, not good times. Roger Holt was a record industry ad man in like the sixties and seventies. He's, he's a guy like basically helping to, there's a lot of payola going on in this period of time in the record industry. So his job is basically to bribe big DJs into playing specific records or specific songs, right? Um, and there's a number of ways that they would do this. Sometimes you're just, you know, giving them gifts or hooking them up with, you know, concert tickets they can give out on the air. Sometimes it's more direct, we're bribing people. As we've talked about, some of these DJs are getting bribed in girls, right? Not that I'm saying Holt did that. I don't know what Holt did specifically, but he's

• 6:39Robert Evans?

  a record industry ad man during this period of time, and he visited Saffel's Radio One office regularly throughout the 60s. He would later tell Davies that the DJ's love for young girls was "an open secret." Quote, "I heard through his office, just in conversation, Jimmy's at it again." That's how people would talk about him molesting teenagers. This did not strike anyone. It struck people as a bit odd. They're talking about it, obviously, right? I don't think it was odd for DJs to, I mean, it certainly wasn't uncommon for DJs to be in like, close quarters with 16 and 17-year-old girls, which again, was legal at the time.

• 7:21Robert Evans?

  But it's notable that Jimmy is exclusively going for girls that age and younger, as opposed to that just being a, which I'm not saying it's okay when it was the thing that happens sometimes for guys, but people at the time are like, "Wow, Jimmy really prefers them really young, often illegally so."

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yes, didn't just slip through the cracks.

• 7:39Robert Evans?

  Right, right. So, yeah, what's important is you understand that Jimmy's love of young girls was seen as noteworthy and talked about, but was far from an aberration within his professional circles, and certainly wasn't seen as like, a reason to discipline him or look into it any further. What made Jimmy weird, and the thing people did note about him at the time, is that he doesn't, he's not into the social side of the music business. Most people who are like DJs or record engineers are like hanging out with other people in the business, right? They like, like the culture around it, and they're interested in like, the creative aspect of it, too. Like, they like making music, and they like, they're interested in how music gets made. Jimmy's not interested in any of that, and he's not interested in

• 8:24Robert Evans?

  like, socializing with his colleagues. In fact, he has almost no relationship with other DJs, which is seen as kind of weird. As Mr. Holt told an interviewer, "He was just a very strange person. You couldn't really have a conversation with him. I used to see him at Top of the Pops, and I didn't talk to him unless I had to go to his dressing room. When I had to go to his dressing room the last time I was there, there weren't any young girls in there, but there were a lot of his mates that I thought were as weird as he was. There was definitely a clique in that dressing room." Now, he's just saying the last time he visited, it wasn't a bunch of girls, it was his friends, his weird friends.

• 8:58Robert Evans?

  What kind of clique do you think Jimmy Savile's hanging out with if it's not other DJs? Right?

• 9:04Speaker 04

  I mean, the word is clique, first of all. Second of all-

• 9:07Robert Evans?

  Okay, you can say it's a clique, but thank you.

• 9:12Robert Evans?

  So, my interpretation of the evidence I have is that Jimmy's issue, one of Jimmy's issues with his fellow DJ, he had a, he has a couple of issues with his fellow DJs. One is, they're really reckless. Like, they're not careful at all about the payola stuff.

• 9:26Speaker 04

  What does that mean?

• 9:27Robert Evans?

  They're, they're, they're not like, you know, remember that speech he gave about being clever versus being tricky? I think he would say, "They were clever, and he's tricky." And he didn't want to hang out with the clever guys, because he knew the clever guys were gonna get busted being clever. Whereas, he doesn't want to get busted, so he's gonna stay tricky. Now, the other side of that, what I think is also accurate, and probably more worth mentioning, is that most of those DJs aren't having sex with teenagers, kind of, you know, it's not the whole point. It's like a bit, it gets a side part of what they're doing and their lives.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  They're not sexually assaulting children? Yeah.

• 10:03Robert Evans?

  Well, they are, sometimes, but it's not their primary motivating factor. Jimmy's primary motivating factor is being able to sexually assault children, right?

• 10:11Speaker 04

  So who the fuck is in his clique?

• 10:14Robert Evans?

  Great question. We know that one of his close friends, as early as 1966, was a member of the British Royal Family. And in fact, the person who introduces Jimmy to the British Royal Family, Lord Louis Mountbatten.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, like, like, like, like- Like, the Lord Matt- like, like-

• 10:32Robert Evans?

  Like, the Lord Mountbatten, yes.

• 10:33Speaker 04

  Father figure to Prince Philip, like, father figure to King Charles, like-

• 10:37Robert Evans?

  Uh huh, that guy, yeah. Yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  That's his name? That's his real name?

• 10:42Robert Evans?

  Oh yeah, the Lord Mountbatten. Yes, that was his name. Was. We'll talk about that in a second.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Fuck me.

• 10:47Robert Evans?

  So, Mountbatten-

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Whoa, okay.

• 10:49Robert Evans?

  Oh yeah, oh yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Were they, were they in like those weird, like, men's lunch clubs together and shit? What's the vibe?

• 10:56Robert Evans?

  We'll talk about what they might have been doing together, because these are the royals, you know? We don't have perfect information about what was going on behind the scenes.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 11:05Robert Evans?

  But Mountbatten introduces him to people like Prince Andrew, who's been in the news lately, and of course, Prince Charles. And we'll discuss all that later, but let's talk about Lord Mountbatten for a moment, right?

• 11:15Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 11:16Robert Evans?

  So he dies in 1979. He and Louis, again, he and Jimmy meet in 1966.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  Courtney, do you know who this guy is? Do you know how he dies and shit?

• 11:24Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah. Yes, he gets blown up by the IRA on a boat in 1979 because Lord Mountbatten was rumored by the US FBI.

• 11:33Speaker 04

  There were children that died also on that boat, Robert.

• 11:35Robert Evans?

  That part maybe not nailed it perfectly.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Not great, but...

• 11:38Robert Evans?

  You did note that there were children on the boat, Sophie. Lord Mountbatten was rumored to be a pedophile on a massive scale.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  Um, yeah.

• 11:46Robert Evans?

  Yeah, uh, which is not ideal. So, yeah, you were saying something, Courtney?

• 11:52Speaker 04

  This is, so this is Philip's dad. No, Father Figure.

• 11:57Robert Evans?

  No, no, no.

• 11:57Speaker 04

  Not, not direct, but not, but he, he does take the Mountbatten name, Philip. Yes, he does, right?

• 12:05Robert Evans?

  I'm not an expert on the Royals, but it's Mountbatten who is his, introduces Jimmy to the family. And Mountbatten is rumored by the FBI before his death to be a pedophile and a like, a major pedophile. The website Irish Central quotes from an interview with Anthony Daly, who worked as a rent boy for London's upper crust in the 70s. That means he was a young male prostitute for like rich guys in London in the 70s.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 12:31Robert Evans?

  And he recalled, quote, "Mountbatten had something of a fetish for uniforms. Handsome young men in military uniforms with high boots and beautiful boys in school uniforms." Great stuff. Now, I don't know that Mountbatten and Jimmy Savile hit it off because they love molesting boys together. I don't have evidence of that, but we know Savile loved to molest boys as well as girls, very, getting down to very young boys. These stories did not come out as early as the reports of Savile abusing and having sex with teenage girls, right? But they do come out later in life and we have quite a bit of evidence of, of this. And one of these accounts, which comes from the book In Plain Sight, is particularly horrifying because it comes from Guy Marsden, who was Jimmy Savile's nephew.

• 13:16Robert Evans?

  Uh, he was one of Savile's older sister sons and he runs away as a teenage boy after repeated trouble with the law. He's just one of these kids who gets in trouble and he and like three of his friends hitchhike to London. I'm guessing they lived around Leeds or something, just based on where the family comes from. And they spent their first days bumming around Euston Station, which they didn't know at that point in time was a common pickup point for men seeking other men or sometimes boys. After several hours waiting around, one man offered to put Marsden and his friends up at a flat nearby. They came over and these guys are, you know, chilling at this flat. You have to assume paying with their bodies, you know, for privilege somewhat, but that's what's going on. And after a couple of days of this, Jimmy Savile shows up.

• 14:01Robert Evans?

  Now, Guy is terrified at first because he assumes his uncle has been sent there to bring him home and probably knock him around a bit, right? Like, he thinks he's in trouble. And instead, Jimmy's like surprised to see them and is basically like, hey, why don't you guys come with me? And I'm gonna quote now from In Plain Sight. Marsden claimed that Uncle Jimmy moved the runaways into a house. Over the ensuing weeks, he also took the boys to a number of parties. There were no women at these soirees, only men and children. Marsden maintained that he realized immediately what sort of parties they were. One of the houses, he described as being particularly memorable. The big feature of it were, when you went in, the swimming pool, he explained, it were a room with a big swimming pool and it was so inviting. Everybody used it and were diving into it. It had lights in it. It was lit up. It was unbelievable. All you wanted to do was stay

• 14:44Robert Evans?

  there forever. Marsden said he believes the house belonged to a famous pop impresario at the time. Don't know who that is. Might have a couple theories. Um, so what this is, is some of the better evidence that I've found so far to suggest that Jimmy Savile was not just a guy who abused a lot of kids at scale, but was part of an or several organized networks of child abuse and exploitation.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  He's sex trafficking children.

• 15:13Robert Evans?

  Yeah, he's and he's part of like a club of guys who were doing that. And because these kids-

• 15:19Speaker 04

  Sexually assaulting and sex trafficking children in a covert organized way is what you're saying?

• 15:26Robert Evans?

  Yes, yes. And that's, that is what this account suggests. And there's, there's some other things that suggest this too. But yeah, this is not a thing where, like, we have- Perfect. This has not been explored, for example, to the extent that like the Epstein networks have been, in part because this stuff doesn't really start coming out until so much later. But what Marsden alleges is that these kids, some of these kids are being molested by the rich and famous men who attend the parties. Not actually like most of them necessarily, which is an interesting point, and I'm going to explain that in a bit. But Marsden claims that, quote, "From time to time, they, the boys, were led into rooms with adult males. Noises could be heard coming from inside. None of these kids were stressed. It was as though they were really, really enjoying what they were doing. That's the

• 16:10Robert Evans?

  sad part, really." And that's not as strange as it sounds. These are all very poor kids. Many of them have been kicked out of their homes for being queer. These kids are living on the street. They are eating, basically, by prostituting themselves and have probably, in general, probably have been abused and raped and molested quite a few times. And this is still more of that, but the difference is now these boys are getting paid. They're spending all of their time, they're living, when they're not participating in these parties, at these various like mansions and palaces. Oh, shit. So they're getting to live, these kids who have been on the street are getting to live that 1 percenter lifestyle at the price of being repeatedly raped. That's what's

• 16:55Robert Evans?

  happening here. And it says a lot about the desperation of their lives that a lot of these kids at the time are like, okay, this is a worthwhile trade-in for me, right? Yeah. Now, after some time at any one location, they would be put in a car and taken to a new location. Some parties would go on for days and would involve multiple different venues. Now, per Marsden's account, a lot of, if not most of, the boys aren't being molested, and that's for a reason. The kids who attend these parties range in ages up to their late teens, so anywhere from 6 to 10 years old, and Marsden says most of the kids who were taken into rooms to be abused by adults were 6 to 10 years old, right? Oh, no. The older teens aren't being as often molested, according to Marsden's account.

• 17:40Robert Evans?

  And he says he was never abused himself. Maybe he's lying about that, but I... Provides a pretty decent explanation as to why that would be. As he posited, quote, "Someone must have had an idea that we would be a good intermediary for these kids. It might have stressed them if there were only adult men." So you've got the older teens there, so the younger boys don't think this is weird and don't get as scared. And so they can kind of be like, "Just go do it. It'll be fine." You know, because the older teen boys are getting something out of this too. That's kind of what's happening here.

• 18:13Speaker 04

  Wait, so-

• 18:14Speaker 02

  That was my job on the Girls Gone Wild tour was just to be the girl so the other girls felt comfortable on the bus sadly.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  Wait, Robert, so you're saying that so, so what are the ages of these boys? Their ages anywhere from what to what?

• 18:29Robert Evans?

  The kids being molested, he says, are generally six to 10. Marsden, I think, was more like 15 or 16, and the older teen boys are anywhere from like, you know, 11 or 12 to like, you know, 16, 17 years old, probably would be, 17 would be probably the oldest.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  So all of these boys are being sexually abused, even if they aren't aware that they're being sexually abused? Because they're being taken advantage of by adults?

• 18:52Robert Evans?

  They're all being abused. They're not all being physically sexually abused, according to Marsden.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, oh.

• 18:59Robert Evans?

  The older boys are there, like, there's, like, it's abusive to put a 16-year-old in a situation where they're like encouraging an eight-year-old to go get molested in order to have a roof over their head. That's a fundamentally abusive thing, but they're not necessarily being physically molested because their purpose is to be there to normalize the situation for the kids who are the real targets, right? That's what Marsden describes, and that makes sense to me. I mean, like, as you said, Courtney, there's-

• 19:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:24Robert Evans?

  Yeah, like, it's, I, I don't doubt this account.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  Understood.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Makes sense.

• 19:30Robert Evans?

  So again, his account is not that Savile is like the organizer or the main guy behind it. He's just a member of this network of very elite pedophiles, right? These guys are very wealthy. They have massive properties. They're probably often doing this like miles away from civilization. A lot of this is happening on these big English estates where you're kind of a law into yourself. You know, you're not going to go run to the cops out there. You're in the middle of pasture land and shit, right? There's like forests and stuff.

• 20:03Robert Evans?

  Some of these properties have thousands of acres to them. So, and we see in this, in the way this is set up, an echo of how Savile abused the young, like the teenage girls who were like fans of pop music who came to him. Most of the girls who showed up outside of his office or went to shows and hung out with him before and after shows are not being molested by him. He doesn't quote unquote pick most of them. And that fact helps to hide what's going on and make it seem believable that this is normal and acceptable because most of the girls you talk to be like, oh yeah, Jimmy's a little weird, but it's fine because they're not all the target. Right? Does that all make sense in terms of like how he's structuring this abuse?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Unfortunately. Very sophisticated pedophilia. Yeah.

• 20:49Robert Evans?

  To get away with it as long as he was, you have to be good at it. You know, he's also lucky. He benefits from, for a lot of reasons, but like he, there's, he's set this up for this way for a reason because it works.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:01Robert Evans?

  So Marsden says he never saw his uncle abuse any boys at these parties. I don't know. Maybe he didn't. Maybe he was primarily at the parties to get access or to get favors for other things. Maybe he's just not into it in that venue. We know he abused young boys. I think the youngest I've heard of was five. So we know he abused young boys, but he may not have done it at these particular parties for some reason. Maybe this is just something he saw as useful to like facilitate the moving of his career. Right? So again, we know he bonds with Lord Mountbatten in 66. We know in 66, he's doing stuff like this. We know Lord Mountbatten's probably doing stuff like this. My guess is that this is how they become friends. Right?

• 21:44Robert Evans?

  And we do know there's also versions of these parties that are being held with teenage girls and a different set of rich and famous creeps. Right? Where there's no boys, but there's rich and famous men. And then there's like 14 to 17 year old girls. Right? We also know that version and probably younger. We know that version, there's parties like that going on too.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  I see.

• 22:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Anyway, none of this weirdness, none of the fact that's going on is enough to get the BBC to shy away from Jimmy. You know, there's. rumors around him, people talk about him liking him young, he makes some comments about that.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  The fuck is wrong with the BBC?

• 22:19Robert Evans?

  Doesn't give a shit. Oh, they don't give a fuck about any of this. He is, in fact, they're going to be a major engine of abuse for Jimmy Savile. The BBC doesn't, isn't just, he's not just a BBC employee who abuses people. He utilizes the resources of the BBC to aid him in abusing people. That's a major part of this story. At the start of the 1970s, they give him a Radio One show, Saville's Travels, which also turns into a BBC TV show. I think it's called Saville's Yorkshire Travels. There, I think there's a couple, I don't understand, the BBC's weird. A lot of these shows aren't really archived in full anymore. So I, but he, he does both. It's a radio show.

• 22:58Speaker 04

  What's the allure? Watch this really odd guy go to places?

• 23:02Robert Evans?

  He's, he's, he's lives in a caravan, which is like an RV or trailer, basically. And he's traveling around the country, talking to people, you know? It's like his Anthony Bourdain type deal, right? That's, that's what people are getting out of it.

• 23:14Speaker 04

  I don't like, I don't like that person.

• 23:17Robert Evans?

  It's not great. I'm not, not in that, but like, that's the kind of the appeal is he's like this regular guy. Who's showing you the, the regular guy's view of these different places in Yorkshire or wherever. So that starts in like the, at the beginning of the seventies. Now, by the start of that decade, Savile had already established a strong reputation as a charitable fundraiser. As we've said, anytime he's doing events, he's often having his salary donated to charity. He's all, you know, he starts raising money. There's this thing people are doing sometimes where like you'll push someone in like a wheelchair for a distance. And, you know, people will like pave, it's like, it's like these different kind of like, you know, run for cancer type, type charities, you know? He's doing some stuff like that.

• 24:00Robert Evans?

  In 1971, he participates in his most ambitious charity drive yet. An 876 mile walk. Uh, and he's, he does this with his Saville's Travels motor pool traveling behind him. So he's like sleeping in the caravan at night and he's walking all day. And people are like joining him at varying points on the march. This is like a 31 day event and he's never really alone. During this, he's constantly being followed by people, sometimes like people who are in wheelchairs show up and he'll push them for a while. Hundreds of folks march alongside them. Jimmy wrote in his column the next week, quote, "I've wheeled cripples along in wheelchairs who didn't want to be left out. I've pushed prams with assorted babies in. I've slowed down to a shuffle with a 90-year-old lady gripping my arm and sped up fleet-footed downhill with

• 24:44Robert Evans?

  an entire youth club tailing behind like Halley's Comet." And this actually ends with one of his first direct things with the fucking British Royal Marines, which we're not going to talk about enough in these episodes. But the Royal Marines like show up to march with him at the end of his march. He does a lot of events with them. He becomes an honorary member of the Royal. He loves the fucking Royal Marines.

• 25:07Speaker 04

  He's so weird.

• 25:08Robert Evans?

  That's a proud, proud part of the, of the, of the history of the Royal Marines.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Cool, man.

• 25:13Robert Evans?

  Is Jimmy Savile got to be a member. Great stuff.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Speaks well of the organization.

• 25:19Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Uh, he does a lot of long, he does a lot of marathons. He does a lot of marches for charity. Does a lot of wheelchair pushes, all of these to raise money for good causes. Savile continued to make outrageous demands when he would agree to participate in these events, as he had earlier in his career. During a fundraiser where he pushed a patient in a wheelchair from Rochester to Bromley, Savile admitted to press that he'd given this demand to the event organizer. "Find me a blonde teenage bird who lives in a house with a drive so I can park outside so she can wake me up in the morning with tea at 8 o'clock." The organizer agreed. This is just in the press.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  My god.

• 25:55Robert Evans?

  Oh Jimmy, he loves those blonde teenage birds, you know, but he's doing good. He's raising so much money for good causes, you know? Why be angry at him for being just a little bit odd? Right? He couldn't possibly be hurting anybody.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  Cause he's...

• 26:09Robert Evans?

  You know who else? Oh, sorry.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  Okay, cause he's a pedophile. Sorry.

• 26:14Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:15Speaker 04

  I ruined that transition.

• 26:17Robert Evans?

  You know who's not a, hmm, that's not a good ad pivot. Anyway, let's, forget I tried to do that. Here's some ads.

• 26:23Speaker 04

  I am.

• 26:27Speaker 03

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• 26:56Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Dovato, Dolutegravir, Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Dovato. Dovato is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Dovato is right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Dovato is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Dovato.

• 27:20Speaker 05

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• 27:55Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit dovato.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 28:06Robert Evans?

  We're back. So after committing, or committing, completing his nearly 900-mile march, Savile was awarded the Order of the British Empire, or OBE, which is just a step under knighthood. Now, this entitled him to sign his name Jimmy Savile OBE, which he does on his subsequent autobiography that comes out not long after this. In interviews at the time, he is vocally thrilled by the recognition, which elevated him to a level of social respectability other DJs simply lacked. Here's a photo of him after his investiture at Buckingham Palace. There's Jimmy Savile OBE. He's got like a normal suit on for once in his fucking life. And he's got this big medal they give you when you get the OBE. He's smoking one of his cigars.

• 28:49Robert Evans?

  He's got a fucking pinky ring on and a top hat and his, his fucking peroxide white hair.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  That hair.

• 28:55Robert Evans?

  Like, a man who's got no business around teenage girls.

• 28:58Speaker 04

  Making the pinky ring look bad and shit, like it's fucked up.

• 29:01Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  I love, I love a pinky ring.

• 29:04Robert Evans?

  History.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  Ugh.

• 29:06Robert Evans?

  Pinky ring history and Royal Marine Corps history. Both, both not, low points of both. Um.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  Gross.

• 29:13Robert Evans?

  So Savile's Yorkshire travels, his like TV show version of this radio thing, hits the air in 1972. Just before that happened, per the book In Plain Sight, the body of 15-year-old Claire McAlpin was discovered by her mother, surrounded by empty pill bottles and a red diary. In her diary, she had obviously committed suicide. Uh, and in her diary, she repeatedly mentioned the sex that she had had with top BBC disc jockeys that she had met while dancing for Top of the Pops. And again, she's 15. This is underage. This is statutory rape. That's what she's writing about. Multiple disc jockeys at Top of the Pops at the BBC's hit show Top of the Pops. Rape this girl. Savile is believed to be one of them. Like, we know he was one of them, right?

• 29:58Robert Evans?

  But he mostly stays out of the fallout around this story because by this point, he's expanded beyond just being a DJ. So the actual like scandal around Claire McAlpin's suicide and around all of this, and it's not just her. There's a couple of other girls that they find out were being trafficked, basically to BBC disc jockeys as part of like a payola scam. And that's the primary thing that blows up into a scandal is that a lot of these like DJs who would like get brought in from the pirate world are. Accepting fucking sex with teenage girls as a form of payola for playing songs, right? That's primarily the big scandal that happens here. And that's obviously not what people should have been most angry about.

• 30:43Robert Evans?

  It's not the only thing that they're angry about. Some of these guys get in trouble, but not Jimmy, right? He's never a focus of these investigations. Cause by the time this all blows up, he's kind of moved on, right? Like he's, he's still doing Top of the Pops from time to time. He's still a DJ, but he's like increasingly starting to be like a TV and radio star for other reasons. And so he's just not at the center of this stuff. But a good friend of his was.

• 31:09Speaker 04

  He was like the, one of the main Top of the Pops guys, wasn't he?

• 31:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's not socially a part of that circle. So most of the accounts they're getting and most of what blows up is involving other guys. And Savile, we just kind of know he was involved, but he's not like at the center of this. And he may not have actually taken payola. He may have just been molesting teenage girls like we know he was doing a lot. He may not have actually taken, we don't know, like, but he doesn't get in trouble for this. Whereas other guys do. Uh, and one of these other guys is a member of his clique, uh, Harry Goodwin, who was a photographer for Top of the Pops. Undercover journalists recorded Goodwin bragging about taking pornographic photos of, I mean, and these are, I think most of these are CSAM, right?

• 31:53Robert Evans?

  I, I guess it depends on the age of consent, but he's taking, he's making child pornography with pictures of, of underage girls. I assume some, not all underage, but most of them probably are. And he's also making movies, you know, quote unquote, movies of the, the statutory rape occurring.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  So he's disgusting.

• 32:12Robert Evans?

  And he's playing these, he's selling these movies to pop stars.

• 32:16Speaker 04

  Not only is he disgusting, he's despicably gross and, uh, is he dead?

• 32:23Robert Evans?

  Uh, yeah, he must be by now. That's great. Like, yeah. Uh, and he gets in some trouble for this. Um, so, you know, again, close friend of Jimmy's here, making child pornography or child sex abuse, uh, uh, content, uh, of varying sorts. So a few people's careers end over this, but again, not Jimmy's because he's moved on. Savile's travels keeps him on the road and makes his fame much broader than just pop music at a time when he desperately needed that. Of course, this doesn't stop him from committing sex crimes. There were almost immediately complaints along his route of travel that Savile, now well into his 30s, was molesting kids. Radio 1 controller Douglas Mugridge asked the station press officer Rodney Collins

• 33:04Robert Evans?

  to make sure to check and see if any local newspapers in areas Savile had gone through planned to print any rumors about his behavior. As Mr. Collins later told the BBC, there were allegations that there were girls, underage girls, involved, maybe in the caravan. However, the newspapers that Mr. Collins talked to insisted they were unwilling to print allegations against Savile, whether they were true or not, because of all of his charity work and because he was, quote, "perceived as a very popular man." So this guy's for the BBC, looking into like, hey, are you gonna print any rumors? To see if we need to like bribe these guys or threaten them to stop it? Yeah. And the papers are like, we weren't gonna publish it even if it is true that he's molesting girls, you know? Because of all of his charity work. He's a good guy and a bad guy.

• 33:49Robert Evans?

  He's doing so much good stuff, you know? Yeah, is it so bad that he's molesting children on, while he does this charity work? Yes, it is. Someone's gotta raise money for charity, you know? Why not let it be a pedophile? A lot of reasons. Yeah. So again, he's like, part of what he's doing on camera for these shows is he's like visiting mom and pop restaurants and cafes and clubs. He's talking to regular people in a way that no besuited, highly educated, traditional reporter could have done. And there's a number of reasons why Jimmy is so popular. One is that, again, there had been like a BBC voice, there had been like a voice that radio announcers, when they start doing television, TV announcers are supposed to sort of have to, to kind of be proper.

• 34:32Robert Evans?

  And to like do the job the right way. And this is a very like, this is a system that is primarily set up for people with specific educations from specific institutions and they talk in specific ways. And Jimmy's a former coal miner from the north. Voices, the accent of the northern part of the country is seen as more authentic in the UK, kind of in the same way as like a southern twang, is seen as both evidence that you might be a redneck and that you're an honest, salt of the earth, real American. Like, he's got an accent that works for him in that way, that makes him seem like a trustworthy, working-class dude. And people are just kind of starved for that in Great Britain at this time. There's not a lot of it in their popular media.

• 35:14Robert Evans?

  And this is part of why he's so rabidly popular, is a lot of folks in the poorer northern parts of the country see themselves represented in Jimmy. And the fact that he kind of dresses like a weirdo is like, yeah, but he's our weirdo, you know? Like, why, why should he have to wear a monkey suit like all these fancy guys? That's kind of, and it helps to, it helps to camouflage him, you know? The popularity is part of the camouflage.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  He's got like five different covers. He's a genius.

• 35:45Robert Evans?

  He's, he's, he's good at it, unfortunately. Most of the initial run of Savile's travels took place in Yorkshire and a BBC article in May of 2013, less than a year after Savile's crimes became, were made public, West Yorkshire Police noted that they had recorded evidence of at least 79 offenses by Savile against 71 separate people. Quote, per the BBC, "35 attacks by the broadcaster in hospitals involved complainants ranging from aged five to 45." The West Yorkshire Police figures show Savile's targeted 18 victims at private addresses in Leeds and Bradford. Now, again, a year after he dies and these stories come out, within the first year, West Yorkshire Police have recorded 79 offenses against 71 people.

• 36:28Robert Evans?

  That's not how many victims he had, that's what they record decades after the fact, when it's finally okay to talk about. He's abusing hundreds of people in West Yorkshire alone, right? We'll talk about, we have no idea how his total number of victims, but we'll talk about what we know about it. I just need you to understand, this is like an every night thing for him. He is abusing people with tremendous startling regularity. In 1972. Yeah, sorry. That's like.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  No, five is so young. You said the range was five to 45.

• 36:59Robert Evans?

  Five to 45 in that area a year after the investigation starts. Yes.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Ugh, that's nauseating. I didn't even think he went that old, but the young end of his rage is truly frightening.

• 37:11Robert Evans?

  Like the eighties. Yeah. Yeah, the young end is real bleak. In 1972, Jimmy had a radio documentary made about him. The World of Jimmy Savile, OBE. It attempted to investigate who Jimmy was as a person, something that had already proven nearly impossible for interviewers to nail down. Jimmy himself claimed to have "nothing to hide from people." Quote, "They ask me, are you queer? I say, no, but if I felt that way, I would have been. They ask me, why don't you get married? I say, well, I've never felt the need. I've got nothing to hide from people. And when you come to think about it, I lead a dead simple sort of life, which is okay and definitely enough for me."

• 37:50Robert Evans?

  Simple.

• 37:54Robert Evans?

  Now, the fact that Jimmy has been awarded the Order of the British Empire, as I noted earlier, it makes it possible for him to enter these higher echelons of British society, but it doesn't guarantee that he'll make friends and find influence there. To do that, he's gonna need to put in work. And initially, it seems, Jimmy tries to hedge his bets by getting in good with politicians on both sides of the aisle. In an article for the Tribune, Farrell Kenny writes, "During the politically febrile 1970s, Savile appears to have hedged his bets, filming a 1974 party political broadcast with liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe. Liberal politician Cyril Smith, who would be unmasked as a pedophile in the aftermath of Savile's death, enjoyed a light entertainment run on Savile's Clunk Clink program."

• 38:36Robert Evans?

  So, he does talk to, in the seventies, he's hanging out and kind of boosting liberal politicians, and he will later boost conservative politicians. But one of the liberal politicians he boosts, Cyril Smith, and has on his show a bunch of times, is unmasked as a pedophile, too. That's gonna be a habit for like friends of Jimmy's. We've talked to two, three so far. Lord Mountbatten, the dude, the photographer on the show, and this fucking politician. So that's three pedophiles had a Jimmy Savile friends already. The click. Yeah, the click. And also, he knows, he and Prince Andrew are buddies. We know what Prince Andrew's getting up to. No longer Prince Andrew. In 1975, Jimmy Savile did something rare, which is

• 39:21Robert Evans?

  that he officially becomes a bigger TV star than he had ever been like a radio star. This is the moment where he fully crosses over. And from this point on, he's not going to be primarily known as a DJ. He's going to be primarily known for his work on BBC TV. The BBC gives him like a dedicated show called Jim Will Fix It, which airs for the first time in 1975, in a 74, 75, and a primetime spot on Saturdays, right? This is like a major show. It's running at basically the best time you can. And the premise is very simple. Children from around the world write Jimmy Savile letters outlining their wildest dreams. And Jim will fix it. So the dream comes true. Writing for CNN, Dave Gilpert

• 40:06Robert Evans?

  notes that at its height, this program, which again runs until 19, yeah, not runs from 1975 to 1994, was receiving, quote, 20,000 requests a week. Famous fixes included a, an encounter with boxing legend Muhammad Ali, and the Boy Scouts who wanted to eat their packed lunches on a roller coaster, resulting in a predictable mess. So that's the kind of show it is. You can see why this is such a hit. You know, you've got, first off, you've got these kids and the way the show works is like Jimmy gets letters. Make a wish. Right. It's like a make a wish. And he gets to read these cute letters that these kids write with their own drawings. He gets to laugh at like kids being cute or spelling stuff bad. Then you get to have the kid on, talk about their dream, and then you get to like film you making it happen for them. And then he gives them like these medallions

• 40:51Robert Evans?

  that say Jim fixed it for me, which for a while were quite valuable. So the series is, it's a massive success, and it makes Jimmy more dangerous than ever. Because now he's gone from, this is like a DJ who has access to teenage girls because he has access to pop stars. But like, that has a time limit on it. For one thing, Jimmy's pushing to middle age now. So it's getting harder and harder for him to still seem like Britain's oldest teenager. Now he has a reason to be around kids and be trusted by them. Because he's Santa. He's like British Santa.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  It's crazy that they greenlit this show.

• 41:31Robert Evans?

  Mm hmm. We need a guy to be Santa Claus. Pick the, let's have it the giant pedophile. Yeah, the guy who molests all the kids. Bring him on. He'll be a great Santa. Yeah. So, uh, the dreams he made come true ran the gamut. In one early episode, a child wished to fly like Peter Pan and sword fight Captain Hook. And Jim's crew used like stage rigging and theater equipment to like, to make that happen in the same way you would for like a Broadway production, you know? Another kid wanted to take his school teacher out for an expensive dinner at a fine dining establishment. And so they put him up at this like crazy restaurant with these really elaborate meals and they film all of it, you know? You can see why generations of Britons ate this show up, right? That said, as innocent as this is, sounds and should have been, the content wasn't always

• 42:15Robert Evans?

  innocent. And in fact, Jimmy can't help himself from like making references to his current and future sex crimes. There's bits of that littered all throughout episodes of Jim Will Fix It. Sophie's gonna provide you with, show you all one brief clip.

• 42:30Speaker 06

  Ever since I can remember, I've always wanted to be a singer, but shyness has always got in the way. Please, could you fix it for me to sing? Yours sincerely, Debbie Coleman.

• 42:40Speaker 07

  Here's somebody to help her who also has a problem with being shy. Gary Glitter.

• 42:46Robert Evans?

  So, Gary Glitter, huh?

• 42:51Robert Evans?

  That doesn't seem like it was too bad, right? Just a kid who wants to be a pop star and, and he's like, okay, I'll, I'll fix you up with my friend Gary Glitter. And Gary was indeed. Have you heard of Gary? Courtney, do you know anything about this guy?

• 43:02Speaker 02

  No, no. Also, that kid was 20, so.

• 43:05Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Kid was 20, thankfully. Um, Gary Glitter, a major pop star, was a major pop star in the seventies and eighties and was a close friend of Jimmy Savile. He was brought down in 1999 after being convicted of downloading child sex abuse material. He was eventually charged with child sex abuse and attempted rape of a child, among other offenses. Glitter and Savile partied regularly throughout the seventies and eighties and shared a taste for little girls. And in Glitter's case, the youngest of his victims were 10 and 11. So, great that he's, he's hooking them up with people on the show. Good to have Gary Glitter on Jim Will Fix It. At least that one person seems to have been an adult. Thank fucking God. They often weren't.

• 43:49Robert Evans?

  Now, the fact that Jimmy wasn't singled out when Glitter got busted is extraordinary, especially because Jim made repeated, as I was kind of insinuating earlier, he made repeated open comments about his attraction to girls as young as 11 in episodes of his hit TV show, Top of the Pops, and in Jim Will Fix It. Here's just one example, and this is from the part of Jim Will Fix It where he hands out his famous Jim Fixed It For Me medallions to winners of the show. So, we're gonna look at that clip right now.

• 44:17Speaker 07

  Give both these young ladies their Jim Will Fix It badges. Because, wait a minute, how old are you? 12. 12. Hello, Judge. And how old are you?

• 44:26Robert Evans?

  Nothing.

• 44:27Speaker 07

  You're not married, are you?

• 44:28Robert Evans?

  No.

• 44:28Speaker 07

  Oh, that's all right then.

• 44:30Robert Evans?

  It's fine, it's fine. Everybody laughs, right?

• 44:33Speaker 04

  What did he say to her?

• 44:35Robert Evans?

  He said, he asked her age, and she said 12, and he said, hello, Judge.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 44:40Robert Evans?

  He's joking that he's going to molest her and get in trouble.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  Oh, God.

• 44:44Robert Evans?

  And then the other girl says 11, and he says, are you married? And everyone laughs. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  I didn't catch the are you married?

• 44:52Robert Evans?

  Young Larry ladies, yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  I was just, again, and I think this is part of his shtick. I was so thrown off by how odd he looked and him leaning over and his like, da, da, da, da, da, that I didn't barely even, Courtney missed it too. I was like, what did this strange man say?

• 45:10Robert Evans?

  But literally, what he's doing is first making a joke about molesting a 12-year-old and getting in trouble in court, and then making a joke about wanting to marry an 11-year-old. Those are the jokes. He's not hiding this. Or it is, he's hiding in very plain sight.

• 45:27Robert Evans?

  And that hello judge bit is a constant. That's one of Jim's like catchphrases, right? Is he'll reference his attraction to a young girl and then go, hello judge, you know? He makes constant jokes. He'll also joke about having an upcoming court date. Like, I've had a great life and I go to, you know, my trial's next Thursday or something like that. Was like a really common reference from him. So there's a lot of bits about him being in trouble with the law for his attraction to underage girls that he performs on air with regularity. Once he dies and all of the stories of the actual abuse start flooding out into the open, people begin looking through old episodes of Jim Will Fix It and they find a lot of evidence of the pedophile hiding in plain sight. For an example of that, here's one find from a user on the website beta.com.

• 46:11Robert Evans?

  And this guy's actually like posting video from an old episode. He's like filming it on his laptop. Again, a lot of these original episodes are kind of harder to find now. So Sophie's gonna play you a clip that starts with Jimmy reading this kid's letter.

• 46:25Speaker 07

  Well, I think about that one as well. From North Chingford, London Eastfall. Dear Jimmy Fixit.

• 46:32Speaker 07

  As it happens, here, as it happens, I think you have fixed enough people now and I think it is about time you were fixed. So will you fix it for me to come along to the BBC Theatre and fix you?

• 46:46Speaker 07

  Lots of love, Barclay Quartermain. P.S. Please do not tickle me. Here, Barclay. I'm presuming with Barclay Quartermain that you happen to be a young man and I'm not in the habit of tickling young men, but if you have a sister, who knows? However, we have a family that was wrong.

• 47:02Robert Evans?

  Again, again, it's just, he's just, everyone laughs at this joke about this weird guy tickling a female child against her will, right? It's just funny. It's a bit, you know? Nobody takes it seriously. It's fucking amazing how open this is. Like, the man, if the show was called Jim a Pedophile, it could hardly be more open about this guy's proclivities.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:25Robert Evans?

  And yet, like paradoxically, the jokes act as a sort of camouflage, as does, as you've said, the way he's dressed and the way he presents himself. It all helps him hide. It's very effective at letting him hide in plain sight. And in some ways, it's giving him, like, the fact that he brings the audience in makes them complicit. That's part of the tactic. They're giving him permission to act the way he does. If everyone's laughing, can what he said really be so bad? Right?

• 47:54Speaker 02

  But it's crazy that when Gary Glitter goes down or whatever, they're not like, but wait a minute, what about his best friend?

• 48:01Robert Evans?

  But it hap- that happens so often that some guy will go down for pedophilia who is known as a close friend of Jimmy Savile and Jimmy doesn't get in trouble. Like, it happens a bunch. Good stuff. I'm happy. How are you doing?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Whew, I'm okay.

• 48:19Robert Evans?

  Have we had a second ad break yet, Sophie? We have not. We have not. Let's do that the fuck now. Uh, let's take a second and then come back.

• 48:31Speaker 03

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• 49:00Speaker 05

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Devoto Dolutegravir Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Devoto. Devoto is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devoto was right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Devoto is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Devoto. It is unknown if Devoto is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Devoto without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Devoto if you're allergic to its ingredients, or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms,

• 49:42Speaker 05

  stop Devoto and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy. Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 50:11Robert Evans?

  And we're back. So Jim'll Fix It was such an outrageous hit that it launched Jimmy's career as a superstar, or at least a UK superstar. He's never, people will notice, he never really crosses over in the way that like some big BBC figures do. But he's very popular within the UK. As Dave Gilbert summarizes, generations of Britons also remember him for a string of public information films, including a road safety promotion that encouraged motorists to use their seatbelts, a campaign that started before well, wearing belts became compulsory in the UK. Savile's closing catchphrase clunk click every trip was instantly memorable and caught on with the watching public. He also promoted the National Rail Network in a campaign dubbed, This is the Age of the Train.

• 50:54Robert Evans?

  And I read that quote because it's, it's probably impossible for me to get across to an audience of mostly Americans and people from elsewhere in the world, besides the UK, what Jimmy Savile meant to Britons of a certain age. The best I can do is to say that for most young British kids from like the late 60s and 70, well, really like the 70s through the early 90s, Jimmy Savile was the BBC. He has too many TV shows to keep track of. He's, and whenever there's like a big, we're doing a big fundraiser, we're doing a big New Year's or whatever thing, we're doing a big holiday thing. Jimmy's the guy who gets picked a lot of times to like headline or emcee because he's the face of the BBC, right? For like 20 years.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  He's kind of like Regis Philbin or something.

• 51:40Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, but even like, I was aware of Regis as a kid, but we have so much choice and option for channels and the UK didn't as much in this period of time. So the fact that he is the face of the BBC, like he's, to a lot of kids, they would have just seen Jimmy as like woven into the foundation of the earth. Almost in like, if you can, if you were a 90s kid, a kid of like the late 80s through the 90s, the way that Robin Williams was to our generation, where it was just like, this is just like, and Robin never did anything wrong that I'm aware of, but to steal some jokes, but I think that's forgivable. Um, you know, he was pretty coked out. Um, but that, that level of like this, this guy is woven into the firmament as like a

• 52:24Robert Evans?

  part of your childhood, right?

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like an uncle, kind of.

• 52:28Robert Evans?

  Like an uncle, like the country's weird uncle, right?

• 52:33Robert Evans?

  In 1971, Jimmy also started volunteering at the National Spinal Injury Centre at the Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He not only raised money to renovate the hospital's facilities, which had fallen into tremendous disrepair, but he started doing regular shifts as an orderly, helping new patients to their rooms and doing rounds, just as an employee would have done, as we'll talk about. This goes on for decades. From the start of Jimmy's time volunteering at Stoke Mandeville, there were rumours that Jimmy, per one acquaintance at the BBC, abused his position by having sexual relations with patients. But this source insists, he never heard anything about illegal activity with underage girls. So this guy's saying, like, basically, everyone knew that Jimmy's sleeping with patients at the hospital that

• 53:16Robert Evans?

  he's helping to fund and is working at as an orderly, but we never thought that it was, they were underage. That's not okay. If they're all 40.

• 53:27Speaker 04

  It's hard for them to get away. They have spinal injuries.

• 53:30Robert Evans?

  That's literally why he does it. Yes. That's, that is, that is the tactic here, unfortunately. Now, however prevalent these rumours are, they weren't enough to offset the funds that he's raising for Stoke Mandeville, particularly at a time by the late 70s, Great Britain's social safety net is starting to look like it's running on fumes.

• 53:50Speaker 04

  It's pretty, it's pretty gross that they're like, that, that like, the cost of like, fundraising is just like mass sexual abuse.

• 53:59Robert Evans?

  Gotta let this pedophile abuse people. Otherwise, we won't have money to keep the spine hospital in business.

• 54:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, they really value, they really value people's lives and wellness and just, it's despicably gross.

• 54:11Robert Evans?

  You're gonna get so much angrier. You're gonna get so much angrier.

• 54:13Speaker 04

  I was like, trying to like, hold, I got really angry after part two. I was like, I was like, I'm gonna try to pace myself this.

• 54:22Robert Evans?

  For an idea of how bad this is, we don't, we're not in the product factories doing trigger warnings on this show. Like, I cried during the research of, to these episodes. That hasn't happened for years. Like, I am dead inside. And I was fucking full on weeping during some of the research for this because, what is just the scale of it and the, the degree to which his victims had no possible method of fighting back against him, right? These are, he's going after people who are the most desperate people he can find in his society. Anyway, let's talk about Margaret Thatcher. In 1977, Savile first hosted Member of Parliament Margaret Thatcher on a visit to Stoke Mandeville. The two became fast friends.

• 55:04Robert Evans?

  Thatcher liked Jimmy because his talent for raising money to fund public programs and facilities meant that the government didn't need to use as much tax money to support the NHS. Jimmy, on the other hand, seems to have instinctively seen that Thatcher was going places, and he wanted her to owe him. His opportunity to do this would come as a result of the harsh austerity policies Thatcher sought to press upon the country if she became Prime Minister. Her vision of an ideal Britain didn't include public funding for healthcare, but did include a worship of wealthy and powerful people and the charity they might be convinced to provide, rather than compulsory taxes. By 1978, Savile was one of the most prominent charitable fundraisers in the country.

• 55:45Robert Evans?

  If you just tax rich people to fund your social safety and to fund your hospitals, then none of them are particularly like gain a position of necessarily power over the organizations they're funding. If you're just paying taxes and that keeps the hospitals going, you can't just, if you just walk into the hospital and we're like, well, my taxes pay for this hospital, people are gonna be like, fuck you. But if you walk in and say like, no, no, no, like you guys are gonna have to close down and I raised $10 million to keep you in business, they're gonna let you do whatever you want, right? That's why a lot of rich people love charity, right? That's why, again, if you watch The Bone Temple, the bad guys in The Bone Temple are based on Jimmy Savile, they're traveling around doing what they call charity.

• 56:29Robert Evans?

  This is like, that whole movie is a critique of Thatcherism and Savile's role in it. Anyway, I love that film.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  You're talking me into a wealth tax right now. That's what you're doing.

• 56:40Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah. However, as Farrell Kenny noted in his piece for the UK Tribune, Savile, quote, "preferred small local charities over large ones with organized structures." He does a lot of charity, but again, it's mostly with these smaller orgs for a reason, because then they're totally dependent on him, and there's not gonna be as much red tape, there's not gonna be as much, you know, people looking into what he's actually doing. And in Kenny's article, he links to a Super 8 video from 1978 of Jimmy hosting a charity event for blind children. In the video, Savile receives a flower from a young blind girl and then a drawing of himself. And I'm just gonna have Sophie show you the clip and, and we'll, we'll describe what's happening for those of you who like, he's

• 57:25Robert Evans?

  out in front of this facility. He's got on like this shirt that looks like a fucking, uh, what's that? It's, it's like-

• 57:32Speaker 04

  A Game of Twister?

• 57:33Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it looks like a Game of Twister. Uh, I don't know how else to describe it. And yeah, there's this little blind girl, looks like she's maybe 12, being like led up to him so she can give him this, this drawing of himself.

• 57:45Speaker 07

  Yes. Now, say what you've got to say, my dear, now into the air.

• 57:49Speaker 06

  Thank you for coming.

• 57:51Speaker 07

  Thank you for coming. Isn't that nice of you? Isn't that lovely of you? And a lovely rose for the beauty of your lady. This is so pretty as well.

• 58:02Robert Evans?

  Ooh.

• 58:04Speaker 04

  Did he say, "And she's so pretty as well"?

• 58:06Robert Evans?

  And she's so pretty as well. Goodness gracious. And again, you know, not necessarily upsetting unless you know what's actually going on.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  Wouldn't it be so icky if he wasn't such a fucking pedophile?

• 58:18Robert Evans?

  Yeah, exactly. Now, at the time, the more noteworthy thing about that performance was that he, he takes out this photo that's been drawn of him and he jokes about it being a photo fit of the Yorkshire Ripper, right? He jokes that this drawing of him is like actually a picture of the Yorkshire Ripper, who's a serial killer that was active at the time. This is a guy who is ultimately murders more than a dozen women by the time he's caught and is actively killing people and like the police are actively looking for him in 1978. Now, the real Yorkshire Ripper was named Peter Sutcliffe. And again, he was ultimately caught and convicted of his crimes, I think in 1981. But that's like three years away. And what's interesting about this to me, just as a side bit, is

• 59:00Robert Evans?

  that at the time Jimmy jokes about looking like the Yorkshire Ripper, he was an active suspect in the murders.

• 59:09Robert Evans?

  My God. Quote from the Telegram. Saville was brought in for questioning after members of the public contacted the police naming him as a possible subject. After a body was found close to Saville's Round Hay Park home, a Harley Street dentist was ordered to make a cast of Saville's teeth. Now, again, Jimmy wasn't the Ripper, but it says a lot about what he was doing and how many people did try to stop him, that so many members of the public reported him as being the likely culprit, that the police force, which was largely staffed by his friends, had to investigate. That's how many people think that know there's something going on, that they're like, well, maybe he's maybe he's the serial killer, right? Like, there's a lot, people do know what's happening and they do try to do something.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  He's a serial something, yeah.

• 59:57Robert Evans?

  Mm-hmm. Wild that he's joking about it. Now, that same year, 1978, Jimmy wrote another book, God'll Fix It, about his Catholic faith. It included these chilling lines. "In my early years, I can tell you I did a lot of things that need a bit of forgiveness. I was in a business that was fraught with temptations. Temptations of the flesh are all about. So in my early days, I was a great," and he puts this in quotations, "abuser of things and bodies and people."

• 1:00:26Robert Evans?

  Okay.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:27Robert Evans?

  Couldn't be more clear. Interesting that abuser's in quotation marks. I don't know what entirely he meant by that, but you know, he's not-

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  That is interesting.

• 1:00:36Robert Evans?

  Hiding it. Yeah. Uh, now, the fact that he's so public about aspects of his personal life, as we'll call it, has consequences for him. Other people do read what he's writing and read these interviews. Well, he'll talk about his sex life and they get upset, even if they don't all, they don't always mark him out as a potential pedophile. They don't always realize what's happening, but they know that something is wrong. And there's also people in the pop industry who know more. Again, maybe not everything, but they know enough, they know enough other people that they know something about what's going on. One of these people is Sex Pistols' frontman John Lydon, who said in an interview in 1978, "I'd like to kill Jimmy Saville. I think he's a hypocrite.

• 1:01:21Robert Evans?

  I bet he's into all kinds of seediness that we all know about but are not allowed to talk about. I know some rumors." He then added, "I bet none of this will be allowed out." And it wasn't. The clip did not air with the rest of the interview. Um.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Good for that guy.

• 1:01:35Robert Evans?

  Yeah, I said something. Yeah.

• 1:01:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, like, that guy had a lot of power and he didn't do that much with it, but like, you know, better than every other adults in this convert and in this entire thing.

• 1:01:51Robert Evans?

  Yeah. As we'll talk about, you know, libel laws in the UK are a big part of why stuff like that gets cut out is Jimmy's litigious and people are scared of being sued by him. Prior to the 1979 elections, Savile hosted a special episode of Jim Will Fix It at the Houses of Parliament where Margaret Thatcher asked him to fix it for her to become Prime Minister. She was elected on May 3rd of that year. Right after she took office, Thatcher had her staff at Downing Street call Jimmy. Quote, "Her secretary rang to say she was rather upset because I hadn't been around to give her a badge. To give her her badge, I reported to Downing Street a few days later and presented it." Oh, good. Thank you, Jimmy, for Margaret Thatcher, for fixing it so she got to be Prime Minister.

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  I really, I really hate when a woman gets it so wrong.

• 1:02:39Robert Evans?

  Oh, jeez, it's, we have barely scratched the surface of how bad this is. Now, not long after this, Jim was carrying out Jim's Daily Dozen. A series of sponsored runs through various British towns meant his fundraisers for different causes. He asked Margaret which charity she wanted a chunk of the money he was raising to go to, and he ultimately presented her with a cheque for £10,000 for the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. The NSPCC. That's, that's good. Thatcher loves, cares deeply about the kids. Obviously.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  Obviously.

• 1:03:19Robert Evans?

  Jimmy and Margaret would remain close friends for the remainder of Thatcher's PM-ship and life. Jimmy's skill with charity was extremely convenient, given Thatcher's conservative austerity politics. By the start of Thatcher's term, the National Spinal Injury Centre at Stoke Mandeville was in such bad shape that five ceilings of housing units had collapsed during a winter storm. The NHS needed additional funding for repair.

• 1:03:44Robert Evans?

  And that was very much not in the budget or in the spirit of Thatcherism. However, Stoke Mandeville is a major facility in the UK. It's like a historically important hospital and allowing the facility to collapse would make for terrible PR because you want to cut the budget. You want to cut quote unquote entitlements, but you don't want people to realize that they're taking, you're taking away their healthcare so that rich people have more money. You really want to hide that until the latest possible moment. Savile held a meeting with Gerard Vaughan, Minister of State for Health. As Davies describes in the book, for the book In Plain Sight, quote, "Over tea and cake at the House of Commons, Vaughan outlined the new government's thinking on the National Health Services, a philosophy which ordained that special projects such as rebuilding

• 1:04:29Robert Evans?

  work at hospitals, even such urgent work as that required at Stoke Mandeville, would have to be supported by voluntary contributions in line with the cuts in public expenditure Prime Minister Thatcher was implementing across the board." Vaughan suggested this meant they had a problem. "Not really," replied Savile, "and they struck a deal." Savile, Jimmy Savile would lead a campaign to rebuild the spinal injuries unit at Stoke Mandeville using private money and donations. In other words, it was to be a pioneering example of the type of partnership between government and the public that the Prime Minister was so keen to promote. Now, the renovations were to cost between six and 10 million pounds, as Jimmy announced at a subsequent press conference. When he was asked, "Shouldn't the NHS just be funding this?"

• 1:05:11Robert Evans?

  He replied, "This is the way they used to build hospitals years ago," and laid out how a simple five pound donation could pay for a brick, allowing every Briton a chance to support one of the most famous hospitals in the country. To make a long story short, it worked. Savile used his connections to wealth and fame to solicit high dollar donations and his ability to connect with average Britons and host public runs and other fundraisers to solicit large numbers of small dollar donations. Now, he does succeed in convincing Thatcher to contribute half a million pounds of public money to the cause, right? But that means this goes from a thing that the NHS would have had to pay 10 million pounds of public money to do to something they have to pay just a half million pounds of public money to do because he raises the other nine and a half that's needed.

• 1:05:56Robert Evans?

  Once the money was raised, Savile was feted in a public press conference next to Prince Charles and Margaret Thatcher herself. This marks the beginning of his true climb up the rungs of power and fame in British height society. As Feral Kenny writes, "The preceding years had seen Savile work his way upwards through media elites, dance halls, to radio, pop television, to primetime flagship television, as well as integrating into the National Health Service. The years that followed, however, can be understood as Savile tirelessly working upwards through the British establishment, the Thatcher government, the monarchy, and an ever-present relationship with the police." So, that's good.

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  Do we have any evidence that Charles knows?

• 1:06:36Robert Evans?

  A bit. We'll talk about Charles a lot more. Don't worry, Zoe. You can come to your conclusion.

• 1:06:42Speaker 04

  Okay. Because I'm just thinking, like, he got, like, some, you know, I would guess, people were not upset with him for, you know, not standing in the way of his brother getting arrested for being a disgusting pedophile, and he got praised for it.

• 1:07:02Robert Evans?

  Oh, did he?

• 1:07:05Speaker 04

  You know?

• 1:07:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, we'll talk a lot more about Charles. We're not nearly done with him yet.

• 1:07:09Speaker 04

  I'd like to know more, is what I'm saying.

• 1:07:12Robert Evans?

  From the Thatcher years on, Savile was what some royal family watchers described as a court jester to the family, right? That's the role he takes on socially. Savile first meets Prince Charles in 1977, which is the same year that he met Thatcher, and Princess Diana herself later wrote that Jimmy was "a mentor to the future king," right? That's Princess Di's take on things, that Jimmy Savile is her husband's mentor.

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  Diana.

• 1:07:38Robert Evans?

  I was not at all surprised to learn that Savile and Thatcher had used each other for mutual benefit. What did surprise me is that this seems to have been a genuine friendship on Margaret's part, as in, she deeply liked and appreciated this historically prolific rapist, and he seems to have enjoyed her company and considered her a safe person to joke around with. After one lunch in 1981, Savile wrote a letter to Thatcher that included the lines, "My girl patients pretended to be madly jealous and wanted to know what you wore and what you ate. All the paralyzed lads called me Sir James all week. They all love you. Me too." Great. It's beautiful to see a friendship blossom. It's wonderful here.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  I don't like the use of "me too" and "Saville" in the same sentence.

• 1:08:23Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  He's not allowed to use "me too." This is awful.

• 1:08:27Robert Evans?

  That bit about "they all called me Sir James" is something he includes here because as soon as he becomes friends with Thatcher, Saville starts working her to try to get a knighthood.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  Oh, he wants a knighthood!

• 1:08:37Robert Evans?

  He's already OBE. The next step up is a knighthood, baby, right?

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:08:42Robert Evans?

  And Margaret spends like a decade fighting for this. She fights, she spends years pushing Jimmy to be a knight. In 1983, Thatcher wrote Sir Robert Armstrong, the Chair of the National Honors Committee, to ask about making Saville a knight. But Sir Robert said no. And his reasoning wasn't that Jimmy was like, obviously a dangerous child predator. It was that he'd just endured a minor scandal about some comments he'd made in an interview about the young girls he hung out with at his charity runs. The AIDS crisis was on fire at that point, and Sir Robert thought it was inappropriate for the government to celebrate and endorse a man who made light of premarital sex. He pointed out that the lurid details of Jimmy's sexcapades hadn't faded from public memory yet, and it would be best if Mr. Saville

• 1:09:25Robert Evans?

  were to wait a little bit longer. Per the BBC, quote, "We remain worried," he added. "Fears have been expressed that Mr. Saville might not be able to refrain from exploiting a knighthood in a way which brought the honor system into disrepute."

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:09:40Robert Evans?

  Accurate.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  There's no way this was a genuine friendship. They're both just empty inside, and they're such climber fucking pieces of shit.

• 1:09:48Robert Evans?

  She goes to bat for him, though, right?

• 1:09:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:09:51Robert Evans?

  Which, like, do any of these people have real friendships? In as much as Thatcher ever did, or Saville ever did, right? They were tightly, they both very much needed each other, right?

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  It's like when Trump talks about having, like, his friends. It's like, you don't have one single friend on this planet.

• 1:10:08Robert Evans?

  Not really. But you have people you need, and it's noteworthy. The amount that Margaret goes to bat for Jimmy shows you how much she thinks she needs him. He is not just a celebrity who's kind of friendly. She is a major, he's a major part of Thatcherism. But she needs him. Okay. He allows her to do a lot of the austerity shit she wants to do without seeming like she's fucking the country as much as she is. Because he's keeping the lights on in some of these facilities. And in return, he gets a blind eye turned to his molestation of hundreds and hundreds of people. Because he's keeping the lights on in these facilities, which allows her to fucking cut shit to the bone. Right? That's Savile's role in Thatcherism.

• 1:10:53Robert Evans?

  And it's a significant one, as shown by how much Margaret herself goes to bat for this guy. Now, the fact that, it's great. I love it when Margaret Thatcher's in the story. Now, the fact that Sir Robert is worried Savile would use being knighted, in order to like, for his own benefit in some way that threw the system into disrepute, was prescient. Savile's already at this point using his fame as a charitable fundraiser to shut down investigations into his sex crimes. Per the BBC, Savile persuaded the tabloids not to run stories by telling them they would be responsible for the end of his charity fundraising. Savile himself admitted in an interview, I hate this guy. People leap about. Yes, they do. If he wants something because of his charitable

• 1:11:36Robert Evans?

  work. Right? Folks will do anything for me because of all the money I'm raising for good causes. Now, any hope of negative reporting on Savile's crimes was further dashed by his close public friendship with Thatcher. Again, this makes it harder. You're some fucking kid who's like at a juvenile fuck, like, facility or whatever because you got in trouble for something, and Jimmy's molesting you, and this guy's, you're gonna try to report the guy who's friends with the Prime Minister? Yeah, that'll work. And the royal family. And the prince. Yeah, and the royal fucking family. In one episode of Jim'll Fix It, a little girl asks to be a cop for a day at 10 Downing Street, and Jimmy uses his connections to Thatcher to fix it. He gives, she gets a

• 1:12:19Robert Evans?

  cop uniform, and she gets to like patrol around in front of the Prime Minister's residence. And when, when Thatcher shows up in her limo or whatever, like the kid gets to like escort her from her car to her residence. TV viewers eat this up, like it's adorable, right? But his victims, many of whom are stuck in hospitals and psychiatric wards, see this as more evidence that Jim is untouchable. I found an article on the website Investigative Psychiatry that's like analyzing a bunch of different investigations, several, because after it all comes out, how many people he was abusing, all the hospitals he volunteered at have these internal investigations into how Jimmy was allowed to abuse their patients for decades. And there's like an NHS investigation, an NSCC investigation. So this article kind

• 1:13:01Robert Evans?

  of summarizing all those investigations notes, "He leveraged his fame and claims of high level political friendships to intimidate those around him. He successfully made hospital staff believe he had the power to have them fired, while simultaneously coercing vulnerable patients into believing that reporting his abuse would only worsen their treatment and lead to punishment." Now, he's, yeah, it's great. And the fact that, for an idea of how much fucking absolute impunity he has. You remember in the first couple of episodes, we talked about Jimmy's got this weird thing about dead bodies as a kid?

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:37Robert Evans?

  It's kind of a regular like thing, like he makes some really weird statements whenever he sees like dead people.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:42Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, saw that chick get chopped up. Oof.

• 1:13:46Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Let me read a quote from a BBC article.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  I'm afraid.

• 1:13:50Robert Evans?

  "Dr. Sue Proctor, who chaired an inquiry into Saville's actions at Leeds General Infirmary, said the star also had an unwholesome interest in the dead. It is alleged he posed for photographs and performed sex acts as on corpses in the hospital mortuary. She also referred to Saville's claims that large rings he wore were made from the glass eyes of dead bodies at the mortuary." There's more we could say here. Jimmy's a necrophile.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  What the fuck?

• 1:14:13Robert Evans?

  He's abusing dead bodies. That's like bad and gross. That's kind of all we're gonna say about in these episodes. It's important you know that about him, but like, we're focused, like the living people are like my primary concern. Obviously, like, this is bad, too. It's just...

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Robert Evans?

  That's how bad this guy is. The necrophilia is like a side note. Also, he's doing this. It's not on the front burner. In terms of like the things he's doing bad.

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  Could you, I just want you to repeat that one part about, what, what did you say? He was with what? The ring?

• 1:14:42Robert Evans?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:14:43Robert Evans?

  Yeah. He had, he wore, he loves, he's got these big rings and he would tell everybody, he made comments about this publicly, they're made from like the glass eyes from dead bodies, mortuaries. That's where his like rings get their like big gems from.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know what to say to that.

• 1:15:01Robert Evans?

  Thanks, man. So my interpretation of what's kind of going on behind the scenes in Jimmy Savile's head through this period is this. You've got this guy who gets his start as a hit DJ in a time when that means unlimited sexual access to teenage girls. He enjoys this for years, but he's not an idiot. He can see this isn't going to last forever. And since he doesn't really like any of his fellow DJs socially, he's got enough perspective to realize they're flirting with danger while literally flirting with children. The BBC offers him a professional escape to a world with less scrutiny and more money, just as his old colleagues start drawing attention for their behavior. And then he realizes the more big public acts of charity he does, the more good he

• 1:15:42Robert Evans?

  gets in with the people running the country and the more camouflage he gets for his behavior. And this provides him with direct access to victims in his preferred age range who can't defend themselves. And that's why he volunteers primarily at spinal wards, psychiatric hospitals, and as we'll talk about in our next episode, the Duncroft Approved School for Girls. Okay. And that's part three.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  I, oh my gosh.

• 1:16:11Speaker 04

  I hate this guy.

• 1:16:13Robert Evans?

  Harrowing stuff, isn't it?

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  This is the worst one I've ever done.

• 1:16:17Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is one of the worst ones we've ever done. It's this guy is, uh, yeah, the devil, the devil himself, really.

• 1:16:27Speaker 04

  I don't even know if there's a word to properly describe how disgusting he is.

• 1:16:31Robert Evans?

  No, no.

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  I've been trying to think of one and I'm at a loss.

• 1:16:35Robert Evans?

  He's a, just a fox that got let into a hen house made up of every single person in a hospital in the UK.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:16:45Robert Evans?

  Cool.

• 1:16:46Speaker 02

  I don't even.

• 1:16:47Robert Evans?

  You gotta plug something?

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Sorry, yeah, my book. Let me recover for a second. Um, I wrote a book. It's honestly way happier than this. And there's a lot of sad shit in the book. It's called Girl Gone Wild and um, it's feminist, which we need after listening to this.

• 1:17:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Sounds nice.

• 1:17:07Speaker 04

  Abhorrent? Abhorrent? That I'm just coming, trying to, I'm just throwing out words. Abhorrent?

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Speaker 04

  Sickening?

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  That applies.

• 1:17:14Robert Evans?

  Abhorrent, yeah.

• 1:17:15Speaker 04

  Obscene?

• 1:17:17Speaker 04

  I don't know. Revolting? Loathsome?

• 1:17:20Robert Evans?

  Mm-hmm. Loathsome's a good one. Yeah, we don't use that word enough. Yeah, loathsome. Let's end with loathsome.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit Remind Me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

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