Pod Insights Happy Place Fear can be wonderful or destructive! How to negotiate with doubt, with Joseph Fiennes About this episode Without something creative to pour himself into, actor Joseph Fiennes says he'd eat himself alive.
In this chat with Fearne, Joseph thinks about why if he doesn't have a challenge to wear him out, restlessness and doubt will take over entirely. They also explore the strange duality of loving your craft... but dreading the judgment that comes with it.
Joseph has played England football manager Gareth Southgate on stage, and now on TV; he draws parallels between their principles around negotiating fear and encouraging vulnerability in men.
Plus, Joseph explains what struggling with reading and writing taught him about knowing who he is, and reveals the hilarious reality of forgetting your lines mid-Shakespeare...
You can watch Joseph in Dear England on the BBC from May 24th.
If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like:
Gareth Southgate https://pod.fo/e/a9ea8
Pippa Grange https://pod.fo/e/108a8a
Jack Whitehall https://pod.fo/e/358875
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Transcript 10,604 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Fearne Cotton? Hello and welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and this is the show that builds confidence through creativity. Today, I'm chatting to Joseph Fiennes.
0:11 Speaker 01 It's a very human condition, doubt. It's a beautiful condition, doubt and fear too, but as long as it doesn't rule you. And I think that I certainly have it, but if I'm really connected and if I'm really joyous in what I'm connected to, it kind of evaporates. But if I'm not connected and I don't find a joy within the creativity, then it emerges. If I can't get to do that meditative, creative moment, I'm completely lost, I'm stressed, I'm gnarly, I'm prickly.
0:42 Fearne Cotton? I mean, what a treat to chat to Joseph Fiennes. I am so buzzed about this conversation. Here's an actor that I've obviously grown up watching. I'm very much a Shakespeare in Love era person. I was a teenager when that film came out. But also, I'm riveted by people like Joseph who have always remained firmly at the top of their game in the acting world, not only on the screen, but also in the theatre. I am fascinated by theatre actors. I love going to the theatre. I don't go that often, but I do love it. I haven't been probably for a couple of years now, but I'm weirdly going to the theatre tonight to watch Dangerous Liaisons. Now, I like going to the theatre because, for instance, like this evening,
1:24 Fearne Cotton? I know nothing about Dangerous Liaisons. I've not seen the film, the film adaptation that was out, maybe that was in the 90s as well, and I've not read much about it. So I'm sort of going in with fresh eyes and ears to this very well-told story. And also, I like anything that takes me out of my own head and life and off my phone. And the theatre seems like a real old-school discipline where you have to sit, usually in quite an uncomfortable chair, and concentrate on something. And you get to learn about life with storytelling, learn about yourself. But I just like the fact that it's an old-school discipline. So I feel really excited that I'm going to the theatre tonight. And of course, Joseph has
2:08 Fearne Cotton? had an incredible theatre career, and we get into that within this conversation. You might too have first been introduced to Joseph in Shakespeare in Love back in the day, or maybe in The Handmaid's Tale, which I've only just started watching. I'm very delayed on that one, but my god, it's good. Now he's playing so phenomenally, I can't tell you, Gareth Southgate in new BBC show, Dear England. And in fact, he played this role before onstage. It started as a show at the National Theatre, which is where I'm going tonight, before being adapted for the TV. So we talk about what it is that he sees in Gareth, his demeanor, his compassion
2:48 Fearne Cotton? and vulnerability that he really relates to. And when I tell you that he transforms into Gareth Southgate in every conceivable way, I'm not exaggerating. You have to watch this TV show. He is genius.
3:05 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
3:38 Speaker 03 Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.
3:39 Speaker 04 And Maisie Adam.
3:40 Speaker 03 And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?
3:43 Speaker 04 Only the best podcast ever.
3:45 Speaker 03 Yes.
3:45 Speaker 04 A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.
3:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too.
3:57 Speaker 04 Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.
4:00 Speaker 03 Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy.
4:05 Speaker 04 Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.
4:11 Fearne Cotton? Right, let's do it then. This is the show.
4:35 Fearne Cotton? Joseph Fiennes, welcome to Happy Place. What a treat to have you on the podcast.
4:39 Speaker 01 How lovely to be with you here. Thank you for having me.
4:41 Fearne Cotton? It's a Monday morning. We are starting the week. I mean, I've already admitted to you that I'm slightly hungover and I'm not usually that person. It's very unprofessional of me.
4:50 Speaker 01 I think you're absolutely, you work so hard that if there's ever a day off, it's a Sunday and why not sip, you know, Bellinis and...
4:59 Fearne Cotton? It was a sunny day.
5:00 Speaker 01 Tequilas. It was a sunny day.
5:00 Fearne Cotton? It was a sunny day. But I'm on it and I'm ready for this podcast and I need to start by saying how much joy I got from watching Dear England.
5:10 Speaker 01 Did you see it?
5:11 Fearne Cotton? Oh my God. I've only seen episode one. I was allowed a sneaky peek.
5:14 Speaker 01 Oh, I thought the theatre. You saw the, you saw the...
5:16 Fearne Cotton? I did not see the theatre show, but the TV show, I, and I'm not somebody, I'm that kind of football fan that I'll watch the big England matches and get involved in the excitement. But I don't know so much about football, but I was so invested in every bit of this story. It's just pure joy from start to finish.
5:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:37 Fearne Cotton? I was like cheering, watching it.
5:38 Speaker 01 Oh, that's great because there was a worry when we did the, well, for me anyway, probably not for those involved, that the, that effect was very much part of the theatre production. And the audience came in and had a, the national, where we first started the Dear England experience, had a demographic that had never been to the theatre before. So you've got young kids with mums and dads and daughters. It was totally right across the board and it was a demographic they hadn't seen. And it brought everyone, a community together. And I was just a bit, a little bit nervous. How can we do that? Well, they've done it because it's brilliant people that are much more talented than me, writers, directors, producers. But, um, so it's great that translates.
6:15 Fearne Cotton? Oh, without a doubt. But I can imagine because obviously when you're on the stage, you've got that audience interaction. You can feel, oh, this is going down well. People are cheering at this point. There's that euphoria. Whereas the translation on screen, it's much harder to know how that's going to land with an audience at home.
6:32 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, it's much more drama based. I mean, the theatre... Was quite broad, at moments very broad comedy. There's a sort of twinkle in the eye with the TV, but it's not quite so broad. I mean, there's the the the fun kind of thing of these characters that we know that being portrayed, whether it's Gareth or Kane or Sterling. Um. But once you get over that, you know, sense of who's who and how much they might or might not look like those people that we're so familiar with. You get into really interesting subjects beyond just football. So football is this lens in which we look at the kind of. The psyche of the nation, uh, the identity of the flag and what that might mean if you're playing and if you're. Second generation player in England, how does that translate to you with with all the ghosts of what that flag might represent or.
7:17 Speaker 01 Racism or kind of toxic environments that young men have to kind of bite their lip and button down and endure. And so. Gareth really brought this amazing quiet revolution in into the England squad. Which was all about a kind of vulnerability, which is something you could never have in that place.
7:35 Fearne Cotton? No.
7:36 Speaker 01 It would be weak. Um. So he lent into a different place with the with the help of this amazing woman, Pippa Grange.
7:42 Fearne Cotton? Well, I'm very, very lucky that I've not only had Gareth Southgate on the podcast, but I've had Dr. Pippa on the podcast too.
7:48 Speaker 01 No way.
7:49 Fearne Cotton? So watching it was so.
7:50 Speaker 01 Downhill upside.
7:52 Fearne Cotton? Not at all, but I actually messaged, I DMed Pippa afterwards and said. Oh my God, this must just be so surreal for you, not only having your story told. On stage, but then to watch it on a TV show and to see. The impact that she'd had. And at first, quite quietly, you know, when she came on the podcast, it was quite a few years ago now. She wasn't a known figure, you know, obviously Gareth was. So brilliant at bringing her into the fold and including her in rewriting the story of the England team and getting them to psychologically think differently. But that wasn't public knowledge necessarily, that kind of, that story came out later down the line. So. I think for her, it must just be the most surreal but amazing.
8:34 Fearne Cotton? Stamp, like a seal of approval, like, yeah, we did it. We we created great change here.
8:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, she she she did. And she's, uh, I mean, we had her in rehearsals, which was an amazing thing, a real. To have her come in. And she's obviously so incredibly versed in in what she's gifted at doing. But doesn't necessarily want to take a front seat. And so it must have been very difficult because she was, I think, the success through penalties and the psychology of tackling penalties, which is a big metaphor in itself for England. She she got pulled out and identified by the press and suddenly she was in the forefront and and and very much a point of focus, which backroom staff don't really ordinarily want.
9:18 Speaker 01 So I think it was probably quite big for her to deal with that and then to have the play that looks at her relationship with Gareth and the players. So I wonder, did you speak to her after she had seen after the play?
9:29 Fearne Cotton? She hasn't seen the TV show yet, but obviously she's seen the play. Gareth hasn't seen the play, right?
9:35 Speaker 01 From from what I understand, he hasn't, he worked with, he didn't work, but he he met with our writer, James Graham, at the FA a number of times. So was incredibly kind and instructful, but wouldn't come to see the play. I did hear that maybe family members saw it and approved. And weirdly, about several months ago, I I I'm an ambassador for what was the Prince's now the King's Trust. And there was these awards for these young entrepreneurs and it was at the South Bank and I was just about to go on stage looking at the card, thinking, God, I hope I get these names right, who's won the award. And there was a tap on my shoulder and I thought, bloody hell, I'm just about to go on.
10:14 Speaker 01 And I turned around and it was the weirdest out of body experience where there was the face that was me, but not me, that I'd been inhabiting for two years, looking right close to me, no more than half a meter away. And he just went, hello. I thought he was going to say, what were you doing? How could you represent me like that? But he was the most kind, lovely gentleman and it was lovely to meet him.
10:35 Fearne Cotton? Lovely.
10:35 Speaker 01 He's so nice.
10:36 Fearne Cotton? He's such a good egg and your portrayal of him, at times I sort of forgot it was you. And it wasn't, and the the skill, obviously, in your incredible career that you've had, that has enabled you to get to this place where you're by no means doing an impersonation. You just are Gareth Southgate, like the tone of your voice, the mannerisms, it it's so bizarre to watch. I mean, do you kind of? I don't know what your method is exactly, but do you feel like you are him when you're either onstage or on the screen playing him?
11:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, onstage is easier to get away with it because there's no close up and camera and there's, you know, you can slightly fudge it if you squint, it's kind of, yeah, that's Gareth. But you can't escape on film. And so that was always a bit, that was an area of concern for me because you want to at least get the audience to get over that conceit. So they're not hung up on, no, it doesn't work. You want to get them through that. But Gareth, weirdly, is the only character that's just come hurtling, landed right there without having to dig for writing biographies or going through kind of various, yeah, methodologies to get to the character.
11:49 Speaker 01 I did watch a lot of Sky Sports, just hours and hours of these interviews, which actually give nothing away because they're told just to, you know, say it's a game of two halves and that's it. You know, so you don't really get there. And actually, the best thing to do to get to a character is talk to people who know them because they'll never tell you how they are. But so there's a bit of that, but he just came naturally.
12:12 Fearne Cotton? Why do you think that is? Like, part of your personality resonated with his values or?
12:18 Speaker 01 Maybe. I mean, I've grown up with him, you know, being a player and a manager and with England. So he's just sort of been on my radar and somehow has seeped into my psyche and it made it easier. But it's good writing, I have to say. I think it's really good writing. And the great thing is it's not about mimicry. It's not really about Gareth. Gareth and football is this vehicle to talk about other subjects. So I felt a little bit let off the hook to get it completely right.
12:47 Fearne Cotton? And what do you like about, I guess, what Gareth did with the England team? But his sense, his view of the world and his set of values and how he went in there very bravely to change something that had been sort of unsaid but set in stone that this is how the England team work and this is how we do things, even though it's not working, this is how we do it. And he went in there and sort of very calmly shook it all up hugely. What is it about Gareth as a person that you like?
13:17 Speaker 01 God, I mean, I don't know him personally, but from what I've learnt and gleaned, I think what I really admire is that sense of challenging the expectations. And there's such expectations when it comes to World Cup, when it comes to putting on the England shirt, and there's so many ghosts with the failure of England not bringing it homes in sixty six. And I just thought the psychology and approach to take away that expectation and for rather like for an actor, you you want to find a certain freedom in your in your craft. And that's the same with football. There's you could see it in Russia when it all started to click. They played with such freedom and creativity. And I think
14:02 Speaker 01 that's taking away the expectations. And so I loved his game plan and he had come from the under twenty one. So he knew what it was to work with the youth. So he, you know, I think he brought in the young players at the right time. And he was probably grown up in dressing rooms where a lot of shouting and kicking bottles didn't really work. And I just he was the right person at the right time that had all the sensibilities of how to talk to players as individuals. And also letting players go is a big thing. And to personally phone them or to go and see them or to treat them with respect and understand that they're not just commodities like stocks and shares. And not that other managers did
14:43 Speaker 01 that. But certainly, there was this this approach, which was very different and authentic. I just think he was clearly very engaged and knew that people needed to be authentically involved in a way that they hadn't been in the past.
14:58 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, but I guess sort of like bringing emotion into the picture, which, you know, wasn't necessarily part of the football landscape before. It was like, you're a skilled player, get out there, do your job. And it's maybe even quite a British slash English trait to be stoic and you just crack on with it. And there he is asking young men to journal and to sort of get in touch with that side of themselves, which seems incredibly courageous again. And also, like you were saying a moment ago, to lose the expectation means to be able to, and this is where Dr. Pippa comes into play, to face fear. And that, I think, in a sporting arena, when you've got the whole globe watching you, is very hard to mitigate the fear of failure, essentially.
15:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:40 Fearne Cotton? What would you say your own relationship is with fear? I mean, I think certainly from someone that's not done it, but to watch somebody on stage, you can tell there's a vulnerability there, like this could go wrong at any moment. And you have to, as an actor, I'm imagining, you know, stare fear in the face every time you set foot on a stage, every night in a theatre, you've got a paying audience and you wanna do it right. Do you, do you feel the fear still?
16:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and fear can, can do wonderful things and then very destructive things. I think the main thing is you've got to be completely rooted to your craft and your plan, and it's a devil that you have to ask to, to step behind you. And it's always there, it's always like, it's a very human condition, doubt, it's a beautiful condition, doubt and fear too, but as long as it doesn't rule you. And I think that I certainly have it, but if I'm really connected and if I'm really joyous in what I'm connected to, it kind of evaporates. But if I'm not connected and I don't find a joy within the creativity, then it emerges.
16:47 Speaker 01 And, and there's a thing through, you know, I'm in mid fifties now and certainly starting out when I was eighteen, nineteen, going on that journey and being lucky enough to go on that journey as an actor, to be employed, you get to learn these skills and you get to absorb and know how to negotiate fear. And I think about those eighteen year olds who are on this world stage as footballers, taking penalties in front of millions and millions, you know, not only in the stadium, but on a televised as well. And how at eighteen do you have the psychology to deal with that? It's a huge thing and it's very easy for people to say, yeah, millionaires with, you know, Porsches and houses and, but still they're young boys that have to take on the massive
17:31 Speaker 01 ramifications of the psychological kind of fear and terror of being, you know, taking a penalty in front of everyone for your country. So to free them. Of that takes a very special kind of person and possibly a person that was there themselves that went through that. So he's the sort of patron saint of penalties.
17:51 Fearne Cotton? I mean, he absolutely is. He talked at length when he came on the podcast about that penalty and the pressure and how it could have taken him down really afterwards if he hadn't had the right people around him and other opportunities down the line come up. But I think to pick yourself back up from that, it's it's really, really hard. How do you negotiate with fear? I like that term, but I wonder what that means because I've had an interesting relationship myself, I think with fear where, I don't know, sometimes I can really use it to my best ability. Every time I sit and do this, there's always a small element of fear because you want to do a good job, you want to keep the podcast going and you want the opportunities to keep rolling in. But equally, I've had parts of my career where I've felt
18:34 Fearne Cotton? too scared and I've gone, I've got to step away from that now, actually.
18:38 Speaker 01 When?
18:39 Fearne Cotton? I mean, live TV, I still haven't stepped back into doing that since maybe kind of my mid 30s. So 10 years ago, I was having lots of panic attacks and they seemed to latch on to a couple of things. One was driving on the motorway and I've dealt with that one and I can do that again. The other one was live TV and I've not felt necessarily inclined to go and face that fear, but equally, there is a bit of penis still like, it's not safe. You can't do it.
19:08 Speaker 01 It's deeply unnatural as well.
19:10 Fearne Cotton? Deeply unnatural.
19:10 Speaker 01 And also your, your body's been put through this. I mean, it can't, the chemicals that must be racing through the body to deal with it is like dealing with a car crash. I mean, it's really intense. I think they even said there was a, a study on actors and it'd be the same for presenters on TV, that that live experience is the equivalent to a mild car crash, what you, your body and your brain has to go through.
19:32 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I certainly felt like that, which might sound overly dramatic or disproportionate, but I think with cancel culture, you know, lurking in the background the whole time, you think, even if you say one thing and it, you know, you say it clumsily or you, you react in a way that you slightly regret, like we all do in conversation with mates when we're having lunch with people or you're just having a gossip with your friends, you think, oh God, that came out a bit wrong. There is no margin for error in that environment when you're riffing, speaking, you know, hopefully fluently. So I think that to me feels like. A no go. So I'm not even at the negotiation stage with that one yet. I'm just like, we'll park that for now. But what would that mean to you if you had, I don't know, a role come up that you
20:17 Fearne Cotton? thought that scares the shit out of me, but I'm going to negotiate with this fear. How would you go about that?
20:24 Speaker 01 Roles themselves don't. I love a challenge and I've done theatre most of my life. So I love what the challenges that theatre offer. And that I love and embrace. It's just the moment when it's press night and you're being judged by forty journalists on one night and it all hangs on that one moment. And invariably, a play, unlike a film, but a play really about a month or two after the press night, then it's just riffing. It's just, it's beautiful. It's well oiled. And that's when they should come. But of course, then the show is over. But to be judged on that, that sense of being judged is the thing that can kind of jam up against the creative joy.
21:07 Speaker 01 So I don't, I tend not to read reviews and I don't do any social media. I'm probably talked about in the worst way, but I wouldn't know. I'm blissfully ignorant. So I can just remain engaged creatively. But in terms of taking on roles, I love biting off more than I can chew. But it's only when I'm getting judged that I think, why did I do that?
21:29 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, it's a horrible feeling because I think that does then, that's the noise that you do need to negate to just do the thing that you actually know deep down, you can do perfectly well. But it's the outside voices that can, if you're not careful, get in your head. So I think it's smart to have boundaries. Like, I'm not going to read reviews. I mean, I'm the same if I write a book. I don't want to read anyone's opinion of it. I've written something that I believe in. That's enough for me now.
21:56 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.
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22:30 Speaker 06 Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.
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23:07 Fearne Cotton? I read that your first stage experience was Woman in Black, which I actually went to see.
23:11 Speaker 01 Did you?
23:12 Fearne Cotton? Probably, it could have even been you. It was in the 90s?
23:15 Speaker 01 Really?
23:15 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I went as a kid.
23:16 Speaker 01 No way.
23:17 Fearne Cotton? I went as a kid with my mum.
23:18 Speaker 01 Don't say a kid, you're making me really old.
23:20 Fearne Cotton? Well, I was a young teenagerish. But I remember being shit scared watching that play. It was terrifying to me as a young kid, but brilliant. Do you remember that experience of, you know, your first big play as a professional actor, a paying audience, what that felt like stepping out on stage?
23:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, 100%. It was a two-hander. It was with a lovely actor called Edward Petherbridge, a brilliant actor, who tested me quite a few times. He would do these seemingly funny things like ad lib, like I've left my umbrella at stage door and he would disappear and leave me on stage for like two minutes. And I'd be like, oh, and then I found it. And he would sort of have a twinkle in his eye and go, see, I'm testing you, young man. But he was very, very lovely and smart. And it was great to do. It was six months long and it was fairly intense. So I'd just come out of drama school. I think I left drama school early because I got the gig, which is a bit of a no-no, but I escaped. And that was the biggest, I think, more than just being in front of an audience, that thing
24:20 Speaker 01 of eight shows a week in the West End for six months, you do feel like you're going mad. And to get through that was, it set me up, I think, in terms of understanding the work ethic and when people pay and you're doing hundreds of performances and you want to deliver to those paying people what they deserve. And keeping that energy up was a real, that was the biggest wake-up call. And tough, really, really tough.
24:50 Fearne Cotton? To the point where you thought, it's not for me?
24:52 Speaker 01 No, I just thought, wow, this is what it takes. It's the Olympics for the actor. I think, you know, I love film and television. They have their own equally tough kind of demands. But physically and mentally, theatre is like the athlete doing the Olympics. You're demanded at another level that you're you're stretched and demanded relentlessly. So that was the biggest thing. And of course, the audience, but I kind of, I think if you're engaged and you're excited and you're communicating with your fellow actor, I think the main thing is if if you stop listening, that's when it all goes to pot. So you have to stop yourself on stage thinking about, God, the shopping in Sainsbury's.
25:34 Speaker 01 Did I do it? Because then you're off. And then you're, where am I? And that's, I tell you what, when you when you dry and you, because you're thinking about something and not listening.
25:41 Fearne Cotton? I can't think of anything worse.
25:42 Speaker 01 It is.
25:43 Fearne Cotton? Terrifying.
25:43 Speaker 01 It's terrifying. Absolutely. It's a horror I cannot describe.
25:48 Fearne Cotton? Oh, I feel sick for you even thinking about a moment like that. Have you had that on stage where you've gone, oh, it's gone?
25:54 Speaker 01 Plenty of times.
25:56 Fearne Cotton? And what do you do? You just wing it?
25:57 Speaker 01 You kind of, I remember at the Royal Shakespeare Company, there's this amazing actor, he was like the Brad Pitt of his day in black and white movies called Griff Jones. And he was about ninety years old and he would always play King Priam or something. And he had this amazing, like, grey hair and he was like six foot four and he just had this presence. But he did forget his lines occasionally. And we, and the Royal Shakespeare Company, you do like three or four plays in rep. So you'd have to know, I mean, it was a time when I would ring up the box office, not sure what play I was doing. So I'd have to ring them up and go, could you tell me what's in this one tonight at seven o'clock? And they would go, well, it's Troy, it's incredible. Thank you very much. And they had to go and go, it's Troy's incredible. But he did this thing with the classics is easier to fudge your way through it.
26:38 Fearne Cotton? Really?
26:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, because you could, he would always have this line, oh, to ride through Hyperion on a winged horse. And whenever you.
26:47 Fearne Cotton? Well, it sounds right. So if it's in Shakespeare, you would just throw that in and you're kind of dry and you go.
26:52 Speaker 01 Oh, to ride through Hyperion on a winged horse everywhere. Look at you, but no, they wouldn't know. And then you kind of get back on it. But I remember one night.
26:59 Fearne Cotton? That's so great.
27:00 Speaker 01 One night he came in and he went, um, he came in, it was Macbeth or something. And he burst through the doors and he went, three score and ten. And we're like, Griff, Griff, that's, that's Triton's Crescent, we're doing Macbeth or something. And then you go, oh, oh, yes. And then he would go back into it. But the classics is easy to fudge it to a degree.
27:21 Fearne Cotton? I would have thought the opposite because you can't ad lib and wing a line. It's got to be Shakespeare sounding at least.
27:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, you've got to have, if you get it with a bit of a meter, you get away with it.
27:29 Fearne Cotton? Because when we had David Tennant on, I was quizzing him about his Shakespeare play experiences. Again, he started the Royal Shakespeare Company.
27:37 Speaker 01 With me.
27:37 Fearne Cotton? With you. Oh, I did not know that.
27:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, we did, uh, he was brilliant. And as you like it, we did as you like it together. And then, in fact, my, the best experience I had at Royal Shakespeare Company was actually not doing Shakespeare, it's new modern plays. And we did one called The Herbal Bed with David. Yeah.
27:53 Fearne Cotton? But he said he, he finds because it's rhythmic, almost song-like, that he found it easier to memorize the script, which again, I found so surprising, that the rhythm to it allowed the, the memory to kind of carry it.
28:07 Speaker 01 So true. He's bang on. We, because we all speak in iambic. So I think there's a certain amount of beats to a line in English. If I asked you to do a sentence, you'd, I could probably work out you're speaking in an iambic. It's same with the French. Or Indian culture has 14 beats to a line. This French might be seven, we're five. Um, and so we speak in iambic. It's a natural thing and it's a sort of heartbeat as well. And so with the classics, it's actually, there are speeches that I'd learnt at 16, 17, that I still know.
28:35 Fearne Cotton? They're still in there.
28:36 Speaker 01 Absolutely four minutes solid of a speech because it's with the iambic. It's that beat, it's that musicality that just locks in.
28:43 Fearne Cotton? It's interesting because I think once you've done a Shakespeare play, maybe also in those formative years, you can't stay away from it. Seemingly, you just keep going back and back. I saw David in Macbeth, not that long ago, maybe two years ago. And, you know, you can go away and do a film or a TV show, but then you've got to just touch base with Shakespeare here and there and have that little moment again.
29:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, you do because, you know, the genius of him is that he reflects upon our time and age and it's just always modern in that sense. And whatever you do, however you stage it, whatever mad costumes or set design you bring to it, what generally comes through is this morality tale, which is always fitting for any time and political landscape you're in, it will somehow give you pause for thought.
29:31 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I mean, they are, and most stories are kind of based on a Shakespeare play.
29:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, pretty much. There's only a few, there's only a few kind of several narratives in the world. There's not much like Pretty Woman is, you know, like Cinderella or it's just a modernized version.
29:48 Fearne Cotton? So what about when you started to integrate into Hollywood? How, how did you find that? Because again, as an outsider, as a film watcher and watching things like the Oscars or the BAFTAs, you can kind of see, oh, my gosh, of course, it looks glamorous and high octane, but there must be an underbelly to it that is cutthroat, that is, you know, very hard to get those big roles because so many people want them. And doing a big film like Shakespeare in Love, you are, you know, front and centre of that, that whole ecosystem. How, how did you find that, that change at that point in your life?
30:26 Speaker 01 Well, people say it's a lot of luck and it is, it is luck. I remember, again, I was at drama school and I, I sneaked out for an audition for Shakespeare in Love and it was for a bit part. And I met the director and Julie Roberts was playing the Gwyneth part and Daniel Day Lewis was up for playing the other part. And then it all fell apart. And so I didn't get that tiny little bit part because the production packed in. And then a couple of years later, I went up for it again. In a completely different role.
30:54 Fearne Cotton? Wow.
30:55 Speaker 01 So it's kind of luck. It's where where you kind of happen to be the right place at the right time. But, you know, ninety six percent of all actors are out of work at any one time. So cutthroat, I don't know, but the competition is is massive.
31:08 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
31:08 Speaker 01 And just to kind of sustain any form of career is is is very hard. So I kind of say to people, if if you want to do it, don't. If you have to do it, which is a big difference to wanting it, then then join the queue.
31:21 Fearne Cotton? And what is that have? Is that because, you know, you're from an extremely creative family, you're one of seven siblings.
31:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:28 Fearne Cotton? And you're all doing incredibly diverse but creative careers and very passionately so. Is that what you mean by have? Like, there's no other option. You have to be creative?
31:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I remember my mum used to say when we were younger, you've got to get your guts into it. And that's kind of been my mantra, just to just pour everything into it. But if you're connected and joy is your guide and it's the thing you love and you have to do, I think it'll it'll kind of reveal itself. And I've always thought I've loved theatre and film and television is a byproduct of my love of theatre. And I just always thought, whatever it is, even if it means doing it in a subway station and doing kind of sonic readings or something, I'll do it. In fact, now I'm working on a one person show. And again, it's that thing of fabricating the thing you want to do and not sort of hanging around waiting for the phone to ring.
32:25 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I mean, that's not fun.
32:27 Speaker 01 No, no, it can be a bit tiresome.
32:29 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
32:31 Speaker 01 But getting lucky, it's all about luck.
32:33 Fearne Cotton? Can you imagine what your life would be without that creative outlet? Would you feel depressed, low, blue? Like, what would be, what would the feeling be?
32:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, I need, I think in my life, I need a kind of both physical pressure. So I have to be lifting, doing, moving, um, and a mental one. And if I didn't have that, I think I would be absolutely mentally crippled. I would kind of eat myself alive if I didn't have those things that could wear me out. I need something to wear me out, a challenge to wear me out both. And creatively, I just, um, if I didn't have that, God, I, uh, I couldn't function.
33:20 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, I feel the same.
33:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:22 Fearne Cotton? I definitely need, I like having ideas and some of them are shit. But I like that process of, oh, where's that come from? That's interesting. What could we do with that and play around with it?
33:33 Speaker 01 And evolve it and yeah.
33:34 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
33:35 Speaker 01 So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm the same. I couldn't imagine a world without it. It'd be deeply, deeply depressing.
33:42 Fearne Cotton? Do you think that, was that taught by, it's like the nature nurture conversation, I guess. But is that inherently like in your lineage, there's got to be some element of like making, doing, creating? Or is that something like you say, your mum's gone, this is very important. Do you put focus into it? Cause at school often we're not taught that. I mean, I remember growing up, I went to a state school in northwest London and it was like, oh, you're like, oh, okay. Good luck with that. Let's get you on with maths and science and, and whatnot. And I'll be like, I hate maths. I've got no interest in it whatsoever. You are quite heavily dissuaded from doing anything arty seriously.
34:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:20 Fearne Cotton? And I know obviously like we've discussed, the chances can be low getting a job being a painter or, you know, uh, an actor, whatever it might be, a singer. But should that deter you from following that path? I'm not sure.
34:34 Speaker 01 No, I mean, I, I take, I think I was brought up to take art just as seriously as being a lawyer or a doctor.
34:40 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
34:41 Speaker 01 Luckily I had the parents that were, um, disciplined in, in, uh, and had access to.
34:48 Speaker 01 To allowing me to follow through with understanding the discipline of a craft. So greatly stimulated in that regard, but I was at state school. I went to one school every year because we moved house. So my education was terrible. I failed everything. I couldn't read, couldn't write, dyslexic, but loved the outdoors. I was a bit mad and maverick as a young boy, but deeply creative. And I always knew I'm just going to be in the arts, so I didn't bother with anything else. But luckily, luckily, I had the sort of home structure and parents that could offer me the right way forward in that love of what I wanted to do. But certainly it's interesting, isn't it, how, you know, we're such, as a country, we've got such amazing talent creatively.
35:33 Speaker 01 Yet you feel, or certainly I did growing up, that the arts was not taken seriously.
35:38 Fearne Cotton? I don't think it is still.
35:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's very sad.
35:41 Fearne Cotton? It's financed less so in later education. It's kind of, I think that it is seen as like, that would be a fun hobby. But it's probably, I mean, I was outright told by several teachers, because I was so dead set. And, you know, I think the other part of this conversation is you've definitely got to have supportive parents. I was lucky, my parents like, do what you, you know, if it makes you happy, give it a bash. They weren't saying, you know, you need to stick to this. But equally, as a young person, and a lot of young people probably have this naturally. You need a bit of naivety, a big dose of hope. Because if you didn't believe you could do it, and not necessarily like make it, I'm going to be a star. But you had a chance of earning money from doing it, you wouldn't even bother.
36:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:25 Fearne Cotton? You've got to have that kind of naivety. Do you think you had that kind of gung ho, like, yeah, I'm gonna bloody well do this?
36:33 Speaker 01 I don't know if it was like, I'm gonna do, do this, whatever. I just, I just felt, I remember aged eight, I was a comprehensive in South London, Putney. I know exactly where I was. And the teacher said, we're going to do a play and she cast me in the play and at eight. And you, oh God, yeah, that, oh fuck, this is the department I need to be in. It just, I felt at home and ever since that age. No matter what, I kind of secretly knew, I was terrible academically, but I secretly knew, well, I know the department I want to go into and it's going to be there and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna settle there. But I didn't think of the pressures of having to make money or make it successful. I just knew that's where I'm going to be happy.
37:18 Speaker 01 That's where I'm going to be fulfilled and that's where I'm going to learn from. And, you know, many ways, and then if I did plays later on, it was, oh, this is great because I get to do lines written by people who are much more intelligent than me and I can hold hands with their intelligence and then I can feel pretty intelligent myself, knowing that I'm not, but getting that ticket to ride was fantastic.
37:39 Fearne Cotton? Hmm. It's really interesting hearing you talk about, you know, that first experience of you're eight years old and like this, because you can't at that point, in a sort of cerebral sense, go, yes, this is for me. Like, I understand this, it's a feeling.
37:53 Speaker 01 No, it's a feeling. It's totally instinctive gut. I'm in the right department.
37:57 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
37:58 Speaker 01 That's it. It's not, you're right. It's not an intellectual thing. It's not an ego thing. It's just a DNA thing.
38:04 Fearne Cotton? Yeah. I mean, I think I still feel that now. I love painting. I don't, I can't make any money out of it at this point in my life. Maybe, maybe one day, but that's not the path that I'd sort of chosen, obviously, as a young person. But when I'm painting, I feel well.
38:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:18 Fearne Cotton? That's the best way. And I've thought about it so much recently, like, why do I have these urges, like, I've got to paint this week? It's because I feel really well while I'm doing it. Is that the feeling? Is it like, I feel whole, I feel complete, this is me?
38:31 Speaker 01 Yeah. I definitely, I mean, the, the creative arts has that, the meditation of, just the coordination of eye to ink or paper and that sense of being lost where time and stress is not involved. It's just your meditation, your observance. I think observing and listening and listening to.
38:56 Speaker 01 Your instincts is a really powerful place and uninhibited by others and opinions. And if you can separate your ego from that observance and just be drawn by the way the material kind of leads you, the water, the ink, it's the same in in music, I imagine, and and in acting. It's being led by the material and it's that combination which is lovely. When you ride, a part of your psyche rides with the material of others. It could be words for actors or paint for artists. It's a lovely meditation and it's a very, it's a happy place for me anyway. So what art would you do? How would you describe?
39:36 Fearne Cotton? I love portraiture.
39:38 Speaker 01 Really?
39:38 Fearne Cotton? I I've been doing a little bit of landscape stuff recently, but portraiture is my is my thing. And I, you're absolutely right, I I'm in absolute meditation and I forget to drink water. I'm just like in it, I'm, I love it so much. And I think as I've gotten older, I've realised I have to do that more. Because we're very good at denying ourselves the thing that makes us feel good. But like, no, I I must clear out that cupboard and then I didn't do the shopping. And I've got, you know, you have this list of shit that you've got to get through as well as working and being parents or whatever. But we deny ourselves that. Do you need something outside of, you know, you're you're lucky that you love your craft, you love your job, but you need something else that's just out of that?
40:22 Speaker 01 Well, I I hear you on the nourishment side is deeply nourishing, that process. I get to do it in my work and that's why I don't, actually it's not work in in the thing I love doing. I get to play with other people. I come from a big family, so I, that sense of bashing ideas around with a group feels very familiar to me and a place I I like. But I think, I've been watching my daughter, who's just taken an art GCSE. And she was working on a big book and then going to her mark and then her final piece. And I was itching as I looked over her shoulder to to do it myself. I just had to hold myself back and silence myself because I just thought, oh, my God, I want to do this. And so I think I'd love to paint. I thought I was going to paint before I went
41:07 Speaker 01 to drama school. And I think I find great nourishment in that. And if I can have an hour or two of that a day, then I can do all the other jobs. They're kind of easy. I knock them knock them dead easily, whether it's tax or emails. But if I can't get to do that meditative, creative moment, I'm completely lost. I'm stressed. I'm gnarly. I kind of, you know, I'm prickly.
41:33 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, same. I turn into a bit of a toddler.
41:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:36 Fearne Cotton? Tantrums if I haven't just got a little minute.
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42:44 Speaker 03 Hello, this is Susie Ruffel.
42:45 Speaker 04 And Maisie Adam.
42:46 Speaker 03 And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey, Mais, what is it?
42:49 Speaker 04 Only the best podcast ever.
42:51 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:51 Speaker 04 A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.
43:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too.
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43:17 Fearne Cotton? The interesting thing about, well, there's many interesting things about being an actor, but one is that you spend a large portion of your life being other people and getting into their psyche. Like with Gareth Southgate, this character came easy, but you're trying to understand why he's made these decisions, what his set of values are, his lens of the world, what his upbringing is. Does that in any way ever help you work out who you are?
43:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it's all connected. It can't not be. It's your point of view through your experience of life. And that's why every actor, whether they all play Hamlet or Juliet, they're going to give you their version of it because their version of life is completely different to anything else. And that's the joy of watching the same production again and again, because it's the way in which it's been interpreted by someone else. I was talking, I did an interview the other day and I spoke about going to a shrink as my character and I've done it three times.
44:18 Fearne Cotton? Oh, really?
44:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it's a fascinating experience because you think it's about the character and you sit there and you go, yeah, well, I had this terrible upbringing and I did this and did that. But then slowly, as you answer and these very pertinent, brilliant questions are being put to you by an astute brain, you realise, my God, is that connected to me or the character? And you start voicing deep feelings and thoughts on the character, but they're slightly intertwined with your version of events as well. So you end up learning a lot about yourself and the character. But it's a tough thing. If anyone goes to do it, remember you have to fill out this form before you sit down. And I was so stuck just at stage one of going, God, how old am I? What's my date of birth? What was my mum and dad's name? And what's my middle name?
45:02 Speaker 01 And so it took me a while of getting that right, but it's a...
45:06 Fearne Cotton? What an interesting thing to do, though, to go as your character.
45:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:10 Fearne Cotton? And you come away with a better sense of, yeah, I know this person, of yourself.
45:13 Speaker 01 Of yourself. Weirdly, that was a weird thing. I thought it was going to only be about the character. And then you start, it starts locking into things that you haven't really addressed. And they're slowly coming out and you have to really discern, is this me or the character?
45:26 Fearne Cotton? And have you done therapy as you?
45:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I have, yeah. Lucanian therapy.
45:32 Fearne Cotton? What's that?
45:32 Speaker 01 Well, it's a kind of, you've got Freud and Jung and Le Cun.
45:36 Fearne Cotton? Yeah.
45:36 Speaker 01 A French guy from the sixties, I think. But it's a, it's a session where it could be just 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour, it kind of. And so that was fascinating. Yeah.
45:47 Fearne Cotton? Wow. And do you think you know?
45:49 Speaker 01 Have you done, have you done?
45:49 Fearne Cotton? I do every Wednesday.
45:50 Speaker 01 Oh, do you? How brilliant, brilliant.
45:51 Fearne Cotton? Every Wednesday. Yeah.
45:53 Speaker 01 It's expensive, isn't it?
45:54 Fearne Cotton? Oh, yeah.
45:54 Speaker 01 But it's a good expense.
45:55 Fearne Cotton? But it's the best. So I'd rather do that than buy shoes.
45:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:58 Fearne Cotton? I like to buy the cheapest shoes ever and like I wear the same trainers every damn day, but I'll spend my money going to therapy. Because it's changed my life in, in the best possible way. And I don't feel there's any sense of near completion with it. Like it's just going to keep.
46:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:12 Fearne Cotton? Rolling. And I think, you know, I was having a chat with Ant and Dec when they came on the podcast and Dec was saying, you know, he's someone that is so successful in his lane, you know, the Ant and Dec cannot be any more successful in what they do.
46:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:26 Fearne Cotton? But he said, I'm not saying anything that he didn't say to lots of people on this podcast, but that he doesn't feel he's made it. And at times he's unsure of who he is. And I think that's so fascinating to hear someone top of their game. Say that because we can all look around at our peers or people that we love on TV and think they've nailed it. They've got it sorted. But actually, every one of us is bumbling along, trying our best.
46:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:51 Fearne Cotton? Trying to figure out who the hell we are, which path to take next, which decisions to make. And we're just giving it a good shot.
46:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think, I think so. It's interesting that those formative years, those childhood years, those really precious years. It's all there, isn't it? So if you, if you haven't unraveled or found the full weight of the joy of that childhood, it's gonna, it's gonna follow you into adulthood. So we're really just sort of adults in the playground, still kind of trying to work it all out.
47:21 Fearne Cotton? How do you think growing up in a big family with that many siblings and a twin brother has, has informed who you are as a person?
47:28 Speaker 01 Do you know what? It makes me re-eat really fast at the table.
47:32 Fearne Cotton? Food's gonna run out.
47:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. That's the only thing. And I actually went to see, he's a dear friend of mine, this guy that does NLP, this neuro-linguistic programming, when he was starting out as a hypnotist, I guess we'd call it. And I said, hey, I really wanted to support you in your new venture as an hypnotist. And he said, well, Joe, what should we work on? And I was like, God, what is there? I feel quite good. I don't know what there is there. I said, I eat really fast because of being the youngest of seven. If you didn't get in there, it's gone.
48:02 Fearne Cotton? It was gone.
48:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I'm still working on that.
48:05 Fearne Cotton? Wow. And do you think the twin relationship feels different to the relationship with your other siblings?
48:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, it does. And I don't know if that's just sharing a womb, birthdays and bunk beds does that to you. But there's definitely a synergy there, unlike the others. But we're fraternal, so we're not identical. But I definitely have this very special relationship, although in adulthood, it's, you know, with lives and what you do, it's, we touch base less, but I do feel that there's a connection quite unlike my other siblings.
48:43 Fearne Cotton? He's a conservationist, right?
48:44 Speaker 01 He is, yeah. He works up in Norfolk in a place called Holcombe Hall, where weirdly I filmed a bit of Shakespeare in Love. It was very odd to be there. But he heads up the conservation and he's fascinating. He's brilliant. He'll take you in his little truck and he'll, he'll go. I remember he took me to this, to this field in Norfolk. And we sat there in his beat up Land Rover and he said, what do you see? And I said, well, I see like ploughed field and some bushes and trees and that's about it. He goes, yeah, there's not much, is there? I went, well, it looks kind of normal to me. And he said, we're gonna go 20 minutes over here and we're going to another field. And it was full of bees and butterflies and foxes and birds and it was just loud with
49:29 Speaker 01 nature. It was just crazy. It was like, you know, um, I don't know, Narnia or something. And I said, what the hell is this? He said, well, this is, this is what conservation is about. You know, in the other place, they cut the hedges, they do this, the pesticides here, it's free. And you just saw the ecosystem was just banging. It was incredible. So, um, I love going to see him. I love, he's brilliantly instructive. Um, I'm a bit of a townie to him. I'm a bit of a lost case, but it's, it's lovely hanging out with him in Norfolk.
49:58 Fearne Cotton? Oh, that's so nice. And just to get out the hustle and bustle and just be in nature is absolute bliss. Before we wrap up, there's a couple of important questions I ask everybody. One of them, I mean, they're not important. One of them's, one of them is important. One of them is for fun. The first one is the fun one. We're creating a happy place playlist with music that just makes you feel really good. It can be any genre, flavour. What would your song be that you're putting on the playlist?
50:25 Speaker 01 God, I wish I'd thought about this. I wasn't told about this.
50:27 Fearne Cotton? No, it's better, it's better off the cuff. Cause you're, the answer will be different every day anyway.
50:31 Speaker 01 My happy place in terms of a playlist is the White Album by The Beatles. I mean, there's so much in there that just sings to me in the best possible way. And it's part of my growing up. And when I listen to that and various tracks, I am in such a happy place.
50:50 Fearne Cotton? Is there one particular song that you think, that gets me?
50:54 Speaker 01 Oh my God, there's bits of all different bits. The one that doesn't get me is a track called Number Nine. But, I mean, it could be, oh my God, I can't think of the names, but.
51:04 Fearne Cotton? We can put all of them on there. We can put the whole album on there.
51:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'll put the whole album. Yeah, please. I mean, I can't draw one. I mean, also that some of them are very short. They're kind of almost experimental bits. And suddenly it's like, you know, 40 seconds and then they're into something else. God, I, I, I mean, all of it.
51:19 Fearne Cotton? Yeah. I'm a massive Beatles fan. I absolutely love them. And then where would you say your happy places?
51:24 Speaker 01 Well, talking about nature and conservation, it is, um, it's, it's, you know, I was brought up in the south of Ireland, in Wiltshire. Um, my childhood is very much connected to nature. So my happy place would be a combination of my wife and my daughters on a very long walk. It doesn't matter if it's, I love the heat, doesn't matter if it's cold, as long as we've built up a good steam walking. But it's, it's nature. It's, it's, there's nothing more beautiful. And being family in nature, that combination, super happy.
51:59 Fearne Cotton? Love that. Are your daughters of an age where they'll happily go on a walk? Cause mine don't love walking.
52:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, um, yeah, it depends. It's a hit and miss. Some days even it could be, we'll all go for a walk and you go, yeah, can't wait. And then 10 minutes before you go, you go, we're all ready. No, I'm not coming. You're like, what? You just said you were. So it's really difficult. Um, but, uh, if I can get some other of their friends along, then they'll all jump in. But that's not so happy for me. Cause I just wanna be with them.
52:27 Fearne Cotton? Yeah, that's so nice. Well, look, thank you so much for being on the podcast and just wait for the reception of Dear England. Honestly, I cannot, no, I can't wait to watch episode, the other, how many is it? Four, four eps?
52:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, end of May, I think.
52:42 Fearne Cotton? I, I literally can't wait. I was goosebumped at the end, buzzing. It's just brilliant. So congratulations.
52:49 Speaker 01 Thanks so much.
52:50 Fearne Cotton? Thank you, Joseph.
52:50 Speaker 01 Bless you.
52:52 Fearne Cotton? Oh my God. How much do we now all absolutely adore Joseph Fiennes? As if we didn't already. We already loved him. But what a down to earth, grounded, articulate, and just lovely man. Just like a good egg all round. And honestly, I cannot urge you enough to watch Dear England. I could give a fuck about football. And I know people give me shit for that. I, I really, I'm not into it at all. I don't, I don't get it. But I was absolutely hanging off every word of this TV show. Football's almost like a secondary thing. It's more about combating fear and culture and men's vulnerability and toxic masculinity.
53:34 Fearne Cotton? It's honestly just brilliant and the cast are amazing. All right, until next time, you gorgeous lot. A massive thanks to Joseph and to you, you are lovely.
54:05 Fearne Cotton? Happy Place is researched by me, Fern Cotton. The producer is Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios with studio engineering by Basil Oxtaby.
54:16 Speaker 02 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalised AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.
54:49 Speaker 05 Help I sexted my boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexted My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.
Previous I still get triggered! Fearne on how to heal, cope with hangxiety, and having an empty nest Next Dr Louise Newson: Anxiety! Joint pain! The perimenopause symptoms you’re ignoring Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated