The Brink's-Mat Heist | Daylight Robbery | 1

South London criminal Mad Micky McAvoy leads his gang into a gutsy warehouse raid. Three hours later, he’s pulled off the biggest robbery in British history. But it’s not easy to shift £26 million worth of gold bullion. In this four-part series, Matt Forde and Alice Levine unravel the story of the notorious Brink’s-Mat Heist, and the jealousy, greed and bitter rivalry that tore through its perpetrators. Listen to British Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting https://wondery.com/links/british-scandal/ now. Do you have a suggestion for a scandal you would like us to cover? Or perhaps you have a question you would like to ask our hosts? Email us at [email protected] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alice Levine?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of British Scandal ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:12Matt Forde?

  Hi, Alice.

• 0:13Alice Levine?

  Hiya.

• 0:14Matt Forde?

  I saw Dave earlier. He said, um, you'd know what this meant. At quarter past seven, kill the boiler.

• 0:21Alice Levine?

  I mean, I don't. And which Dave?

• 0:23Matt Forde?

  You know, Dave, crazy Dave.

• 0:25Alice Levine?

  Crazy Dave. Oh, crazy Dave, dark hair, crazy Dave?

• 0:29Matt Forde?

  No, no, no. No, light-haired crazy Dave.

• 0:32Alice Levine?

  Oh, so ironic crazy Dave, not actual crazy Dave?

• 0:34Matt Forde?

  No, actual light-haired crazy Dave.

• 0:37Alice Levine?

  Light-haired crazy Dave that's just left his wife crazy Dave?

• 0:41Matt Forde?

  No, light-haired, actual crazy Dave who loves his wife.

• 0:45Alice Levine?

  I don't think I know actual crazy Dave with light hair that loves his wife.

• 0:50Matt Forde?

  Oh, I'm starting to worry I've got the wrong Alice now.

• 0:52Alice Levine?

  Which Alice did he say to give the message to?

• 0:54Matt Forde?

  Clever Alice.

• 0:55Alice Levine?

  Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, I'm clever Alice.

• 0:57Matt Forde?

  Oh, man.

• 0:58Alice Levine?

  What?

• 1:00Matt Forde?

  Sixteenth of November, two thousand and one, South Bermondsey, London. Sixty-three-year-old Brian Perry hurries along the busy street towards his minicab office. He glances nervously over his shoulder. He's been out of prison for a few weeks now, trying hard to get his life back on track. But he keeps seeing the same Ford Escort everywhere he goes.

• 1:23Alice Levine?

  That was our family car. We called it the ice rink because in the winter, the footwell flooded and it froze over. And I remember telling somebody, we found ice rink in our car. My dad was like, please stop telling people that.

• 1:37Matt Forde?

  He takes a drag on his cigar, catches his reflection in a shop window. Nine years inside has taken its toll. His face is thin, almost gaunt. His dark hair has turned grey, and he hasn't slept for weeks. He quickens his pace. His eyes dart around looking for the car. There's no sign of it. He lets out a sigh of relief, mutters under his breath, bloody paranoid fool. He puts his cigar back in his mouth. He's just about to cross the road when he stops in his tracks. It's there, parked up the street.

• 2:16Alice Levine?

  Just to go back to the Ford Escort, in contemporary drama, it's always a blacked-out SUV, isn't it? And that is a very intimidating vehicle. But if this is the same as ours, bit of rust around the wheel arch, ours was in a lovely cream that was always dirty, it's just not scary, is it?

• 2:33Matt Forde?

  No, old coat hanger for an Ariel. Why did people do that? Well, it must have worked.

• 2:39Alice Levine?

  We dreamed of FM, oh my god.

• 2:42Matt Forde?

  Brian ducks into an alleyway, flattens his back against the wall, tries to calm his ragged breath. He's about to look back out into the street when a man steps in front of him. "Don't fucking move."

• 2:57Matt Forde?

  He's dressed in black, and his face is covered with a balaclava.

• 3:04Matt Forde?

  Everything around Brian stops, falls silent. His ears fill with the sound of his own thumping blood. "Don't, please, whatever you want, money."

• 3:19Matt Forde?

  Brian's breath catches in his lungs as he feels the cold tip of the gun against his forehead. Two fucking words: Brinks, Matt. He looks into the man's ice-cold eyes. His words stick in his throat. No matter what he says or does, it's too late. His part in the biggest robbery in British history has finally caught up with him, and Brian realises with a sudden clarity: this is how his life ends.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I'm Lauren Malloy, the host of the podcast My Mom's Murder. For 30 years, I thought my mom died of natural causes. That's what everyone told me. That's what I believed. Until one day, I got a phone call that changed everything. A woman claiming to be my mom's best friend told me my mother was murdered, and that no one had ever investigated it. So I did what the... Detectives wouldn't, pulled the threads, knocked on doors and confronted the contradictions. And what I found, it's worse than I imagined. Something happened to my mom. Someone killed her. And I won't stop until I find out who.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  The system may have given up on my mom, but I never will. Listen to My Mom's Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 10 episodes early and ad free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 4:59Alice Levine?

  Hi, I'm Sachi Cole, co-host of Scamfluencers from Audible Originals. Disgraced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes let a film crew see everything before she went to prison, or at least that's what she wanted them to think. In our latest episode, we dig into the documentary that has everyone asking, who's really running the con? Listen to Scamfluencers on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 5:24Alice Levine?

  From Wondery, I'm Alice Levine.

• 5:26Matt Forde?

  And I'm Matt Ford.

• 5:28Alice Levine?

  And this is British Scandal.

• 5:32Alice Levine?

  The show where we bring you the murkier stories that ever happened on these odd little isles.

• 5:37Matt Forde?

  British scandals come in many shapes and sizes. Some are about money, some are about sex. They're all about power.

• 5:44Alice Levine?

  But when we look at scandals a bit closer, they turn out to be stranger, wilder, just plain weirder than we remember.

• 5:50Matt Forde?

  So we're journeying back to ask who's to blame for what happened.

• 5:54Alice Levine?

  And when the dust settled, did anything really change?

• 6:07Matt Forde?

  Alice, the nights are drawing in. We're all comfort eating, right? I comfort eat all year round, but anyway, for that reason, I am bringing you a delicious roast dinner with all the trimmings of a scandal.

• 6:19Alice Levine?

  I'm intrigued. Okay, what are the ingredients for a Sunday roast scale scandal?

• 6:23Matt Forde?

  Well, you have to have a massive succulent crime in the middle, crispy villain figures on the side, served with a lovely soupçon of organized crime.

• 6:32Alice Levine?

  It's like the bird within a bird within a bird, the crook within a crook within a crook.

• 6:35Matt Forde?

  Oh, it's got everything. And this is a perfect scandal for panto season. This is a heist. Have you ever heard of Brink's Matt?

• 6:43Alice Levine?

  I have, and we've of course. Dunhatten Garden on a previous series. And this is probably the other heist that people know of. It's infamous and people have been fascinated by it since it happened.

• 6:55Matt Forde?

  Yes, and the reason they're fascinated is because the robbery was beyond anything ever before encountered in the UK.

• 7:02Alice Levine?

  Yeah, I don't think we have many incidents which have the kind of Hollywood beat, the sort of Ocean's Eleven feel, you know, an element of glitz and glamour. It's brutal in parts, it's tense, it's dramatic. There just aren't many of those about, are there?

• 7:18Matt Forde?

  No, and what's great about this is the theft was just the start. The real drama begins after the heist takes place.

• 7:28Matt Forde?

  Okay, stop everything. Before we get into this episode, I need to tell you something very exciting. You no longer have to wait a week to hear the next episode.

• 7:38Alice Levine?

  What are you talking about?

• 7:39Matt Forde?

  You can now listen to the whole series right now by subscribing to Wondery Plus.

• 7:44Alice Levine?

  I believe it's what the kids call binging. You can binge the series, how exciting.

• 7:49Matt Forde?

  I binge everything. Why wouldn't I add binge podcasting to the list of things I already binge? Before you get to listen to the rest of them, this is episode one, Daylight Robbery.

• 8:03Matt Forde?

  Eighteen years earlier, November 1983, Epping Forest. Mad Mickey McAvoy throws down his fishing rod. He blows on his frozen hands and tries hard not to lose his temper. He's 31 years old, slightly built with a mop of permed hair.

• 8:20Alice Levine?

  You don't see a permed man that much anymore, do you? So if that is your thing, they're thin on the ground.

• 8:26Matt Forde?

  Mickey is one of the best armed robbers in the business. Right now, though, he's standing at the edge of a lake, fishing with the Colonel. He looks over at him, a large bellied, round-shouldered mountain of a man, perched on a tiny fishing chair. For the past six weeks, they've been planning a raid on the Brinksmatt High Security Warehouse, just outside Heathrow. And now Mickey's going to meet the Colonel's brother-in-law, a guard who works there. But he's late, and Mickey's patience is wearing thin. How much longer? I'm freezing my bollocks off here! The Colonel shrugs as he fixes a maggot to his hook. Patience, Mickey. He'll bear ya. Mickey runs his fingers through his dyed blonde hair, then tries to warm his hands under his armpits.

• 9:12Matt Forde?

  He can't afford any slip-ups. He's got a wife and kids to provide for, and a demanding girlfriend.

• 9:19Alice Levine?

  Amen. Honestly, ball and chain. And then, attached to the ball and chain, just another sort of ball and chain.

• 9:26Matt Forde?

  Like a school project version of the solar system. He's just got little balls and chains orbiting other balls and chains.

• 9:33Matt Forde?

  He's putting everything into planning this raid, but the one part he can't control is the guard. Mickey doesn't trust outsiders, so he's determined to check this guy out for himself. He looks up as a battered Vauxhall Viva trundles towards them. A flustered skinny man with a long moustache jumps out, grabs his fishing rod from the boot, and rushes over. Sorry I'm late! Mickey frowns, as the Colonel nods. Mickey, meet my brother-in-law, Tony Black. He's gonna let us into the warehouse. Ain't ya, Tony? Mickey watches Tony shift his weight from one foot to the other.

• 10:15Matt Forde?

  He holds out a crumpled bit of paper. There are two guards with the combination code. You'll need both men to get into the safe, though, because they only have half the code each. I'll let you in just after half-six. You've got an hour before a van driver turns up for that day's load. Mickey snatches the paper as the Colonel grins. Nice work, Tony. Mickey starts scanning the names, when the Colonel lets out a shout. We got a bite on, lads! A huge trout sails past Mickey's head. He lets out a little yelp as the Colonel grabs the squirming fish and rips the hook from its mouth. You scared of it, or something? He spins round to see Tony grinning at him. Mickey grabs him by the throat.

• 10:59Matt Forde?

  You fuck this job up, I'll kill ya!

• 11:03Matt Forde?

  He hears the Colonel's calm voice. All right, Mickey. Leave off. Ace's family. Mickey lets him go. He's got too much riding on this job to let the Colonel make all the decisions. And that guard's flaky. He needs someone on the team that he trusts. Someone to watch his back. And Mickey knows just the man for the job.

• 11:29Matt Forde?

  The following day. Blue Cars Cab Office, Peckham.

• 11:34Matt Forde?

  Brian Perry kneels on the floor of his cab office and scrubs vomit from his threadbare carpet. He's forty-six years old with thick, dark brown hair and a round cheerful face. Right now, though, he's scowling. He's fed up to the back teeth with his punters. If they're not puking in his cabs, they're throwing up in his office. He leans back and lights a cigar. He knows he's only got himself to blame. He's been running an all-night illegal drinking den upstairs for a few months now. He had made a promise to his wife he'd go straight. Which is all well and good, but he still has to pay the bills. He's just about to tip out the bucket when a punter walks in. I hope you're bloody sober. I fucking hope so, Brian.

• 12:19Matt Forde?

  He looks up to see Mickey McAvoy. A wide grin spreads over his face. Mickey, you bastard. Mickey's one of his best pals. He's known him since Mickey was a kid breaking into houses. Oh, kids. He watches him now sit at his desk and put a cigarette in his mouth. I've got a job coming up. Warehouse. Heathrow Airport. We've got a guard on the inside and I don't like him. I need someone in the room with me. Brian takes in Mickey's tanned face. He's fourteen years younger, but he's already a legend. Respected and feared by every villain south of the river. Brian's always admired his guts and his ruthlessness. But she also can't help feeling a pang of jealousy.

• 13:04Matt Forde?

  He looks down at his scuffed shoes. I can't, Mickey. Promise the wife no more jobs.

• 13:11Alice Levine?

  Think how much fun these men would have without these wife and bloody girlfriends.

• 13:16Matt Forde?

  What do you think's paying for all these perms? A paper round?

• 13:20Alice Levine?

  And these kids, that I didn't want.

• 13:23Matt Forde?

  Mickey leans towards him. This warehouse, they keep cash, jewellery, overnight. They move it to the planes the next morning. If we hit it right, we could make three million pound. Brian looks up, startled. Three mil? He blinks around his shabby office. A share of that could set him up for life. He catches Mickey grinning like he's read his thoughts. Plus, it's with the Colonel. Brian feels his back straighten. The Colonel's pulled off more successful armed raids in London than anyone else.

• 14:00Alice Levine?

  Oh, that Colonel, because he's not the most famous Colonel, is he? Obviously, you immediately think...

• 14:04Matt Forde?

  KFC.

• 14:05Alice Levine?

  ...of the chicken.

• 14:06Matt Forde?

  A share of three mil, plus a boneless banquet, bucket for one.

• 14:10Alice Levine?

  If we hit this right, we'll find out all 11 secret herbs and spices will be set up for life.

• 14:19Matt Forde?

  Brian looks at the photo of his wife and kids on his desk. Surely, one last job won't hurt. And it's not like she'll ever find out. He looks back at Mickey and smiles. When do we start?

• 14:36Matt Forde?

  6:25 AM, 26th of November, 1983. Brink's Matt Warehouse, Heathrow.

• 14:45Matt Forde?

  Mickey takes a long drag on his cigarette. He looks out of the van window as the guards turn up for work. Where the fuck is he?

• 14:54Matt Forde?

  He watches the Colonel sigh. Oh, relax, Mickey. He'll turn up. Mickey closes his eyes. He tries to block out the Colonel's heavy breathing. Brian's tapping foot and the mutterings of the other three men he's put together for this job, all crammed into the one van.

• 15:12Alice Levine?

  Wait, okay, so who do we have in the van? Who is the crew?

• 15:15Matt Forde?

  Okay, so we've got the three guys we've already met. The Colonel, Mad Mickey and Brian Perry.

• 15:21Alice Levine?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Matt Forde?

  There's also a guy there called Tony White, not to be confused with the guard, who's called Tony Black.

• 15:27Alice Levine?

  Really helpful, okay, great.

• 15:29Matt Forde?

  And then there are two other guys, two Johns, Little John and Big John. So there's John Little Legs Lloyd, who was teased for having short legs. And then there's Big John, who was known as Big John just because he was bigger than Little John.

• 15:42Alice Levine?

  Right, okay, good.

• 15:44Matt Forde?

  Mickey goes over the plan in his head. 6:30, the guards enter the building. 6:35, Tony Black lets them in. He and Brian then take the two guards with the combination numbers down to the safe. By 7, they'll have it emptied and be back in the van, with Brian driving them to the flop house. He hears Brian now. He's here.

• 16:08Matt Forde?

  Mickey's eyes spring open. He pulls on his yellow balaclava, checks over his shoulder that the others have done the same, then grabs his gun.

• 16:17Alice Levine?

  Dare I say, a yellow balaclava largely defeats the purpose.

• 16:21Matt Forde?

  Yeah, that's less IRA, more pussy riot. He follows Tony Black inside the building, races up the steel staircase, takes a deep breath as he hesitates outside the guardroom door, then bursts in. He shoves his gun at a terrified guard. Get on the floor or you're all fucking dead. He handcuffs the guards and hauls the combination holders down to the vault, barks at Brian. Go punch the numbers in. He puts his gun to the first guard's temple. Code, now. He fixes his eyes on Brian as he hammers in the guard's half of the combination. Mickey shifts his gun to the second guard. Points its muzzle right in the middle of his eyes.

• 17:06Matt Forde?

  Your turn. The man's a jabbering wreck. He's weeping. Muttering under his breath. Mickey realises he's praying. He yells in his face. Give me the fucking numbers! The guard's eyes are wild with fear. I can't remember. I swear. I swear I can't remember. Mickey checks his watch. It's quarter to seven. Forty-five minutes before the collection van turns up. His eyes swivel to the safe. There's three million quid inside there. And he can't get a goddamn penny of it. Fuck, fuck, fuck! Mickey. Look! Mickey spins round to see Brian pointing to the corner of the room.

• 17:52Matt Forde?

  He's staring at a stack of pallets dumped just outside the vault entrance. Fuck's sake, Brian, I ain't interested in no fucking rubbish! But then he sees what Brian is fixated on.

• 18:07Matt Forde?

  He walks over to the pallets. Lifts a sheet of tarpaulin to reveal a heap of buttery gold ingots. He picks one up in disbelief. Turns it over in his palm. It's the size of a chocolate bar. What the fuck?

• 18:25Matt Forde?

  Then back down at the gold in his hand. It's the most pure, beautiful gold he's ever seen. Stacks on stacks of ingots.

• 18:36Matt Forde?

  It must be at least two, perhaps three tonnes of pure gold. He feels a surge of electricity run through his body. He can't understand it. Why's it not been put in the vault? He looks around in disbelief and smiles. It seems the gods are looking down on him after all. Until it hits him like a punch to the gut. Mickey stares at Brian. How on earth are they going to shift it all?

• 19:07Alice Levine?

  What is going on, please?

• 19:09Matt Forde?

  Obviously, our boys have gone there to raid the safe to get cash. They can't get into the safe, and yet just outside the safe, for one night only, are pallets of gold bullion that were then going to be shipped possibly to Asia the following day. This is a moment of incredible luck.

• 19:27Alice Levine?

  Sorry, so they didn't even have intel on this? This wasn't even what they were going for? And it's just looking them in the face as they're panicking that they're not going to get to do their heist?

• 19:39Matt Forde?

  It's almost as if the universe is saying, "Crime pays."

• 19:44Matt Forde?

  Ten minutes later, Heathrow. Brian peers out of the windscreen. He wipes a bead of sweat from his top lip, puts his clammy hands back on the steering wheel. He glances at the clock on the dashboard. Forty minutes until the collection van arrives. He needs to get another van, and quick. Mickey will never forgive him if they have to leave half the gold behind.

• 20:08Matt Forde?

  Brian screeches to a halt, runs into a phone box, and rings his most trusted driver. His hand shakes as he pushes the coins into the slot. Bring a transit van to Heathrow, now! He hears the man's sleepy voice.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Hmm, boss? What time is it?

• 20:27Matt Forde?

  Brian snarls down the phone. Drive it here yourself, and keep your fucking mouth shut!

• 20:34Alice Levine?

  You're welcome. Morning. If you're a driver, trusted driver for criminal gangs, is it a little bit like being a doctor when you're on call and you have to always be 30 minutes away from the hospital? Because he could not live near Heathrow. Think of the traffic!

• 20:48Matt Forde?

  Gangsters have just got little camp beds dotted within half a mile of any major bank, vault, or diamond store.

• 20:58Matt Forde?

  Half an hour later, he's just finishing loading his own transit van when Mickey storms over. Where the fuck's this other van, Brian? He opens his mouth to answer when he hears it spluttering into the car park. He stares, open mouth. It's even more battered than the one he's driving. He hears Mickey snap. You're fucking kidding me! Brian swallows down his embarrassment, rushes over, guides the van into the loading bay. He heaves box after box of Golden Guts into the van. Ten minutes later, it's loaded up. He grabs his keys, jumps in his transit. He hears it creak. He jumps out, looks down.

• 21:43Matt Forde?

  Shit! The whole van's buckling. The axles are bowing. He looks at Mickey. Here's an alarm on Mickey's watch. 7.30, collection time. How heavy are you? Mickey shrugs. 14 stone 12?

• 22:00Alice Levine?

  I just wouldn't know. If somebody asked me that, I would not be able to provide my weight. Would you know, just like that?

• 22:04Matt Forde?

  81.7 kilograms.

• 22:06Alice Levine?

  Well, you'd be perfect for this kind of gig.

• 22:08Matt Forde?

  Let me just check I'm right, because I weighed myself this morning and logged it.

• 22:11Alice Levine?

  Logged it?

• 22:12Matt Forde?

  In my health app.

• 22:13Alice Levine?

  Sure.

• 22:14Matt Forde?

  You know, I'm not obsessional. 81.7 kilograms.

• 22:18Alice Levine?

  Bloody hell.

• 22:19Matt Forde?

  Yeah, I try and keep my weight at around 85 kilos.

• 22:21Alice Levine?

  Hmm.

• 22:22Matt Forde?

  So then I weigh myself, not every day, because then I'm worried I'll become obsessional, but sort of every other day.

• 22:27Alice Levine?

  It's quite a lot.

• 22:28Matt Forde?

  Yeah, mildly obsessional.

• 22:30Alice Levine?

  You're a very tall man, so do we need to ply with some bagels? What do we need to do? Because we're a little way off target.

• 22:36Matt Forde?

  I don't mind if I'm under.

• 22:37Alice Levine?

  Oh, okay. I beg your pardon.

• 22:38Matt Forde?

  That gives me a bit of breathing room for the weekend. What I'll try and do is during the week, restrict with soup and salad, and then binge like mad at the weekend.

• 22:48Alice Levine?

  So you're going to have a four-kilo weekend, you think?

• 22:51Matt Forde?

  No, this is just health advice. Why wouldn't you take the health advice of a man recently hospitalized with cancer?

• 22:59Matt Forde?

  Brian does a quick calculation. We can go in the same van, everybody else in the other transit. He turns the key. Come on, come on! But the engine won't turn over. He blinks at the road. He can hear Mickey yelling at him to hurry it up. He takes a breath, tries again. Feels his body flood with relief as the engine splutters into action.

• 23:25Matt Forde?

  A short while later, they're on the motorway. He presses his foot on the accelerator, watches the shaky dial on the speedometer reach thirty. He can't push it any faster. He holds his breath as police cars fly past in the opposite direction. His knuckles are bone-white on the steering wheel as his van lumbers slowly along. If he breaks down now, it's over for everyone, and it'll all be on him.

• 23:51Matt Forde?

  Half an hour later, he turns into a quiet street in South London. Pulls up outside the flop house and kills the engine.

• 24:00Matt Forde?

  He opens the van door, stands shoulder to shoulder with Mickey, staring silently at the boxes of pure gold. Suddenly, his feet leave the ground as Mickey picks him up in a bear hug. We did it, Brian! We fucking did it, mate! Brian picks up one of the gold bars. He does a quick calculation. Seventy-six boxes, ninety-eight gots in a box. He looks at Mickey in astonishment as it settles in. Six thousand eight hundred and forty bars, three grand a barlet's. Twenty-six and a half million quid!

• 24:39Matt Forde?

  He looks at Mickey's tear-stained face, then at the Colonel's beaming smile, and grins as he realises: he's a rich man. He's finally the player he always wanted to be. And now, he's going to act like it.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  In the summer of 1881, U.S. Army Lieutenant Adolphus Greeley and 24 other men embarked on an ambitious scientific mission to the northernmost reaches of the Arctic. But despite several triumphs of discovery, the men would soon face tragedy. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of the podcast American History Tellers. We take you to the events, times, and people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. In our latest series, after Adolphus Greeley and his men arrive at their destination more than 1,000 miles above the Arctic Circle, they get to work collecting scientific data and exploring the frigid landscape. But when resupply ships fail to reach them two summers in a row, they're forced to set

• 25:45Speaker 04

  out on a desperate search for rescue, and not all of them will make it home. Follow American History Tellers wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of American History Tellers: Greeley Arctic Expedition early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 26:04Speaker 05

  There are books that change how you see the world, and there are books that change how you see yourself. In a new podcast series, A Great Book with Barack Obama, President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world. From Song of Solomon and the Fire Next Time, to All the Pretty Horses and Gilead, the President is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership, and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create.

• 26:48Speaker 05

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of A Great Book with Barack Obama ad-free right now, plus access each audiobook discussed in the series. Download the Audible app today.

• 27:11Matt Forde?

  Several hours later, the Flophouse, South London. Mickey puts the last ingot on a pile on the floor, stands up, and gazes around the room. It's heavy with cigarette smoke, filled with the sound of men joking and laughing. He claps them to attention. Congratulations, gentlemen. You're all multimillionaires. A spontaneous cheer goes up. Mickey shushes everyone to silence as the news bulletin comes on the radio.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  The robbers are thought to have escaped with 26 million pounds' worth of gold bullion, making it the biggest daylight robbery in British history.

• 27:52Matt Forde?

  He switches it off, points at the two equally divided piles of gold bars. You heard the man: 26 mil. You all know the score. Me and the Colonel here take off, since it was our plan. The rest is divided between you.

• 28:09Alice Levine?

  What a deal. They thought they were getting a share of 3 million. Now they're getting a share of half 26 million. You'd just be like, "Uh, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Thanks. Yeah, we're good."

• 28:19Matt Forde?

  Half of 26 million seem to be struggling with 13.

• 28:22Alice Levine?

  Well, you get a share of the 13, okay?

• 28:24Matt Forde?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:24Alice Levine?

  Mm.

• 28:25Matt Forde?

  I think we'd have clashed at school.

• 28:30Matt Forde?

  The men nod at Mickey. But nobody takes their share yet, not till things have quietened down. Every copper in the country is going to be looking for this gold. He looks in turn at each of the fine faces staring back. So, we hide it here, under the floorboards. In the meantime, keep your mouths shut. Trust no one. He hears Brian clear his throat. Thing is, Mickey, it ain't gonna quieten down. He picks up an ingot. Every single bar's got a number. If we're caught with it... Mickey hears a murmur go round the room as Brian goes on. I know someone. Kenny Noe. He's got links to Hatton Garden. He can smelt it down. Turn it into cash for us.

• 29:16Matt Forde?

  Does anyone know a smelter? It's so funny you say that.

• 29:20Alice Levine?

  So hard to get a good smelter these days. They're always booked up, aren't they?

• 29:25Matt Forde?

  Mickey juts out his jaw, feels a vein throb in his forehead. No outsiders. I don't trust nobody that's not in this room. The Colonel stands up. He's got a point, Mickey. We're sitting ducks with this lot. It could put us all away forever.

• 29:44Alice Levine?

  I didn't want to interrupt the jubilation and the kind of celebration of the success of the job. Surely, this is impossible to shift. I mean, you can pay for stuff with money, famously. Bullion less so.

• 29:56Matt Forde?

  Yeah, they've ended up in a completely different type of heist, and that means the back end of their operation just isn't prepared. For gold, as he says, you at very least need a smelter, but storing it is different, spending it is different. Every single bit about the heist fundamentally changed when they stole gold instead of money.

• 30:14Alice Levine?

  One of the first things they said was, "We don't want strangers involved in this. Keep the circle small." But now you need people with a different skill set. You need to make sure that the bars aren't traceable. You need different markets opened up to you. You need connections to people who'll buy it and trade it for you. I mean, dare I say, feels messy.

• 30:34Matt Forde?

  Mickey blinks around as the other men nod their agreement. He lights a cigarette. What the hell's Brian playing at, challenging him in front of everyone? He swallows down his annoyance, looks at the serial number on the ingot. Fine. Take this bloke you'll share, Brian, but only you'll share. He'll let Brian test the waters. If he doesn't get ripped off, maybe he'll use this man too. But he can't shift his irritation. Brian's out of order piping up like that. From now on, he's going to keep him in check. And if his old mate gets too big for his boots, he won't hesitate to remind him who's boss.

• 31:19Matt Forde?

  A few days later, Kent.

• 31:23Matt Forde?

  Brian makes his way along the Kent Country Lane towards Kenny Noe's 20-acre estate. He runs his hands nervously through his hair, glances down at the shoebox on the passenger seat, then turns up the radio.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Insurers are offering a £2 million reward for information leading to the recovery of the 6,800 gold bars stolen in yesterday's robbery at the Brink's Matt warehouse. Over £26 million of gold bullion bound for the Far East.

• 31:52Matt Forde?

  He turns it off. For the past 24 hours, the whole country's been talking about the missing gold. He shuffles awkwardly in his seat. The truth is, he doesn't trust this Kenny man.

• 32:05Alice Levine?

  Let's get out of it then, because we're about to give him a lot of compromat. A lot of Brink's compromats.

• 32:13Matt Forde?

  Happy with that?

• 32:16Alice Levine?

  No, not really. I feel deep shame, but thank you for drawing attention to it.

• 32:21Matt Forde?

  He heads up the gravel drive to the newly-built mansion. In the doorway, he sees Kenneth Noe. Noe's hard face and high cheekbones stare down at him. Two rottweilers lie at his feet. Brian feels his stomach clench. A few minutes later, he sits next to the huge brick fireplace, frowning as he hands over an ingot. He watches Noe's eyes bulge at the sight of the near-pure gold. Jesus! Brian leans back, taps out a cigarette from the packet the way Mickey does, waits for Noe to light it for him. He exhales slowly. I need this turned around quick, Kenny.

• 33:04Matt Forde?

  He watches a smirk spread over Noe's face. From what I hear, you've got a few tonnes of this stuff to shift. Noe's eyes are boring into him. Not many people can shift gold like I can, Brian. He looks at Noe's grinning face, feels his mouth dry.

• 33:24Matt Forde?

  He doesn't want to show how much he needs his help. He keeps his voice even. And how are you gonna shift it, Kenny? He watches Noi lean back as he explains how he knows the best and most discreet smelters in the business. How they'll only work for him. How he'll get it smeltered twice, then sell it to gold dealers for cash. Brian takes a drag on his cigarette. Easy as that? Yeah, Brian. It is that easy. When you know what you're fucking doing.

• 33:57Alice Levine?

  I don't like this guy. Smarm.

• 34:01Matt Forde?

  Brian holds his breath, puts the gold bar in the shoebox, gets to his feet, and shoves the box at Noi. You've got two days.

• 34:15Matt Forde?

  Forty-eight hours later, Brian heads over to Mickey's table in the pub, puts a hold-all at his feet, watches Mickey's eyebrows shoot up as he looks inside at bundles of fifty-pound notes. I've changed my mind, Brian. I'm gonna sit on my share for the time being. Brian's mouth slackens. It's too risky. But Mickey cuts him off. I'll decide that. I've got another job for you as it goes. I want you to cover for me with Jackie. I'm taking Cath away for the weekend.

• 34:42Alice Levine?

  Oh god, this is an even more dangerous heist.

• 34:45Matt Forde?

  Brian's shoulders slump. He hates lying to Mickey's wife. He's sick of being his gopher. He looks at his feet and dumbly nods. Good lad. He feels a flush of anger as Mickey winks at him. He was the one who spotted the gold in the first place and sorted the vans. He's the one smart enough to turn it into cash. But Mickey treats him like a goddamn errand boy. He'll do Mickey's bidding this time, but if he ever gets the chance to call the shots, he's going to take it. And then, he'll put Mickey McAvoy firmly in his place.

• 35:23Alice Levine?

  This is really familiar to us. Two people heading up a plan, both with different ideas of how to proceed, and they tend to not treat each other very well, and so that disrespect breeds deep resentment, and that deep resentment breeds deep errors.

• 35:38Matt Forde?

  Mickey and Brian, Tony and Gordon, Liam and Noel. History is littered with this stuff.

• 35:48Matt Forde?

  That night, Brian's house, Bermondsey. Brian tucks his money into a small hole behind the bedroom skirting. He repositions the plastic floor plant, checks himself in the cracked mirror cupboard, adjusts his grey knit tie, then makes his way across the hall to the pokey living room. He bends down, kisses his wife. Won't be late. His wife keeps her eyes fixed on the television. Don't make a noise when you come back, Brian. Sick of you waking me up. Brian nods, then heads outside to his car. A short while later, he knocks on the door of Mickey's council flat and goes over in his head what he'll say to Mickey's wife Jackie, how Mickey's been called away on a last minute job, that he's sorry and he'll make it up to her.

• 36:31Alice Levine?

  Is it just me, or is this highly suspicious, if your husband's best friend turns up to deliver the news that he sadly cannot be in attendance in your marriage because he's otherwise engaged?

• 36:43Matt Forde?

  Jackie, what could be more romantic than me coming in the dead of night to tell you this? If anything, it proves, proves how much she loves you.

• 36:49Alice Levine?

  Thank God for text messages now, am I right?

• 36:52Matt Forde?

  Yeah, although Mickey'd probably still get Brian to do it, just texting you off Brian's phone.

• 36:59Matt Forde?

  A few seconds later, she opens the door. Two rottweilers lurch at him. Jackie yells at them both. Brinks, Matt, get down!

• 37:07Alice Levine?

  Stop it. No way. I'm sorry, I'm out. No, no.

• 37:13Matt Forde?

  Brian watches Jackie's blonde hair fall over her face as she grabs the dog's collars. Why the hell has he called him Brinks and Matt? Jackie shrugs. He thinks it's funny. He follows her inside, hands over a bottle of wine, but she doesn't take it. Instead, she lights a cigarette and stares at him defiantly. Don't try and tell me he's on a job, Brian. I know exactly where he is. Brian holds her gaze. He takes in her loose-fitted powder blue dress. It falls off her shoulder as she raises her cigarette to her mouth.

• 37:48Alice Levine?

  Oh God, what's happening here?

• 37:50Matt Forde?

  He watches as the soft light falls across her face.

• 37:52Alice Levine?

  No, don't watch the soft light, thank you.

• 37:55Matt Forde?

  She blows smoke into the space between them. I could do with one of those. She silently takes out her packet, leans forward to light it. Brian can smell her perfume. I don't know what to say, Jackie. If I were...

• 38:09Alice Levine?

  If I were to stay longer, I'd get in trouble myself, so goodbye, goodnight.

• 38:16Matt Forde?

  He checks himself, looks up to see her dark eyes fix on him. If I was married to you, Jackie, I'd move heaven and earth to make you happy. Her face softens. He steps towards her. He's about to draw her to him when he feels Brink's massive paws on his chest. He falls back against the wall. Before he knows what's happening, he's on the ground with Brink and Matt licking his face. He can hear Jackie giggling. She holds out her hand to help him up. He gets to his feet, hears himself laughing, but he doesn't let go of her hand. He gazes at her. He doesn't deserve you, Jackie. He never did.

• 38:57Alice Levine?

  Brian, shut up. With all due respect, shut your goddamn mouth.

• 39:03Matt Forde?

  I love how the two Rottweilers pouncing on him has not quelled his randiness whatsoever.

• 39:11Alice Levine?

  If anything, he just imagined that that slobbery tongue was actually Jackie all over his face.

• 39:18Matt Forde?

  He draws her closer. When she speaks, her voice is hoarse. What about your missus? He shuts his eyes, sees an image of his wife, wonders if he can really go ahead with this. But when he looks back at Jackie, his mind's clear. He whispers. I won't tell if you don't. For a fleeting moment, he thinks about Mickey and the promise he made to look after Jackie. Well, he's going to do that all right and play Mickey at his own game.

• 39:51Matt Forde?

  A few days later, Hearn Hill. Mickey turns over, squints at the clock. It's half five in the morning and Jackie's in the kitchen cluttering around banging doors. He grabs his pillow, puts it over his face. His head throbs from his hangover. He turns, spots Brian's lighter on the bedside table. He must have let Jackie borrow it. That man's a godsend.

• 40:16Alice Levine?

  Absolute inge.

• 40:17Matt Forde?

  He yells at the top of his voice. Shut the fuck up! Jackie! You shut up, Mickey, you fucking idiot! He turns, feels a flash of confusion as he sees Jackie lying next to him. Then he notices the blue light flashing over her face. Before he can do anything, the door bursts open. Two burly policemen drag him off the bed. He feels the cold snap of handcuffs. Sees Jackie's contorted face yelling at them to let her husband go. At the doorway, he twists his head to see her. They ain't got nothing on me, Jackie. I'll be home by tomorrow. I swear.

• 40:54Alice Levine?

  To be honest, that's a better record than when he's not being arrested. He's not home tomorrow when the police haven't cuffed him, so...

• 41:02Matt Forde?

  Two hours later, he sits in an airless room. Looks across the plastic table at two detectives. One of them, thick-set with dark-framed glasses, barks questions at him. The younger one looks at him nervously, wiggling his pen in his hands. He grins. They've got no firm evidence. And his gold's still safe. Well and truly hidden. Thing is, Mickey, we've been talking to Tony Black, the guard. So why not just talk to us? Mickey feels a chill at Black's name. He stares at the officers. Tony Black wouldn't dare open his mouth. He knows better than to risk his life like that. He juts out his chin. No comment. The door opens.

• 41:46Matt Forde?

  He feels himself being lifted out of the chair. He's shoved into another room. Pushed into a line-up. His mind scrambles to catch up. Tony Black walks in. Mickey feels his pulse race. He stares straight ahead. Tony won't identify him. He's not that stupid. There's him! Mickey McAvoy. He's one of the ringleaders.

• 42:10Alice Levine?

  Oh, God!

• 42:12Matt Forde?

  That didn't take long, did it? Why's he done that? He is full of surprises. He's sung like a canary, hasn't he? And you'll never guess what he's been doing with Jackie.

• 42:21Matt Forde?

  Mickey's body tenses. He looks into Tony's eyes, pulls back his fist and punches him in the face. Tony collapses as his face explodes. Mickey catches a glimpse of a tooth on the floor before a mass of arms grab him and haul him back to his cell. Mad Mickey McAvoy isn't pushed around by anyone, certainly not some two-bit loser like Tony Black. He hasn't earned his reputation as a ruthless bastard for nothing. He'll take on anyone in his path, including the coppers. And he knows just the man to call.

• 42:58Matt Forde?

  Hi, I'm Kenia Barris.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  And I'm Malcolm Gladwell. We're back for season two of our Audible original podcast, The Unusual Suspects. We're bringing you fresh, new conversations from guests like Anderson Paak, David Zedares, Ryan Howard, Rich O'Callaghan, Amy Sheldon and many more. Sign up for a free trial to Audible to listen to season two in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 43:19Alice Levine?

  I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War One secret agent accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari early and at free on Audible.

• 43:55Matt Forde?

  The following afternoon, Chiswick Police Station. Criminal defence lawyer Henry Milner strides along the scuffed corridor to the interview room. He's determined to save Mickey McAvoy from a lengthy jail term. And if he plays this right, he could have his client out in a matter of days. He pauses at the door, runs his hand over his carefully styled hair, then marches in. Mickey jumps to his feet. Mr. Milner, thanks for coming so quick to see me. Henry nods, pulls out a plastic chair, ignores the cigarette burns and sits down. He unzips his black leather briefcase and slides a packet of cigarettes towards his client. "How are they treating you, Mickey?"

• 44:39Matt Forde?

  He watches Mickey shrug as he lights his own Cuban cigar, then leans back. He's been a criminal defence lawyer for decades, but he only has a handful of clients on his books. Mad Mickey McEvoy is one of the best. He always brings in lots of work and pays his bills quickly.

• 44:57Alice Levine?

  Say what you want about him.

• 44:58Matt Forde?

  He's punctual.

• 45:01Matt Forde?

  Henry reaches into his briefcase, takes out a bunch of newspapers, fans them on the desk in front of Mickey. "Police clearance in on Brink's Matt gang, bully and robbery mastermind arrested, arrest made in crime of the century." Henry adjusts the gold pin on his silk tie. "I don't need to tell you how much trouble you're in, Mickey." He points at the Financial Times. "The stash has already increased in value by a million pounds. Apparently that's due to the sudden shortage of gold."

• 45:32Alice Levine?

  That just gives you some perspective on how much they stole, the fact that it could impact the market.

• 45:39Matt Forde?

  It's a high so big it had inflationary pressure.

• 45:44Matt Forde?

  He watches Mickey put his elbows on the table and run his fingers through his greasy hair. "It's that God's word against mine, Mr Milner. They ain't got nothing else." Henry looks over the top of his large square glasses. "I'm afraid that's not true. The police have arrested one of your accomplices. He was identified by his brother-in-law, a Mr Tony Black."

• 46:07Matt Forde?

  Mickey sits bolt upright. "They've got the Colonel!" Henry sighs, flicks his fat cigar into the ashtray. "You've embarrassed the establishment, Mickey. You've made them look foolish." He watches Mickey's mouth fall open. "Mickey, if you want any chance of walking, you're going to have to give something or someone up."

• 46:31Matt Forde?

  "But they haven't got proof. They're God. Who believe him?" Henry cuts in. "Do a deal. Give them a name, Mickey." He watches Mickey's eyes widen. "Tell me about Brian Perry."

• 46:47Matt Forde?

  I can't grasp, Mr Milner. I've never done that in my life. Henry pats his fist on the desk. For God's sake, Mickey, drop this honour amongst thieves bullshit. They're going to lock you up for decades. For once in your life, give them what they want. He watches Mickey's startled eyes cloud with tears as he slumps back, and shakes his head. (sighs) Henry lets out a heavy sigh. I can only help you if you help yourself.

• 47:17Alice Levine?

  I mean, he could just give them Little John or Big John. Doesn't need to be a big player, doesn't need to be Brian. You know, one of the ones in the backseat.

• 47:23Matt Forde?

  Both Johns.

• 47:24Alice Levine?

  Why not? A double whammy of Johns, surely that'll get you off.

• 47:28Matt Forde?

  He zips up his briefcase, gets to his feet, puts his hand on Mickey's shoulder, and squeezes it gently. Think about it.

• 47:38Matt Forde?

  He knows he's leaving Mickey with the biggest dilemma of his life. Thirty years inside, or a lifetime, looking over his shoulder and living in fear. But right now, his man is out of options. It's time for Mad Mickey McEvoy to make his choice.

• 47:59Matt Forde?

  Two days later, Brian's cab office, South London. Brian looks out of the window, watches the street for signs of plainclothed police. He's hardly slept since Mickey's arrest. He closes the blinds, slumps into his chair. He has to get rid of his share fast, especially now the heat's on. Right now, though, he's too scared to even leave the office. He jumps, snatches up the phone. He completely forgot he was meant to call Jackie, arrange a weekend away with her. He's about to blurt out an apology when he hears Mickey's voice. He sits bolt upright, tries his best to sound casual. Mickey, how are you, mate? He hears Mickey scoff.

• 48:43Matt Forde?

  Listen, the police wanna do it their way. His heart starts to race as Mickey takes a breath. They want names. They want the gold. Brian's hand trembles. He stutters out. Are you gonna give me up? Mickey lets out a laugh. As if. I ain't telling them shit, Brian. I've never been a grass in me life, and I'm not gonna start now. I got a message from the Colonel. He's not talking neither. Brian's lungs empty in relief. He starts to mutter his thanks when Mickey tells him. I need you to check in on Jackie. Look after her while I'm in here.

• 49:21Alice Levine?

  Yeah, I checked. She's fine. What do you mean you checked? I mean, I will check. She will be fine.

• 49:27Matt Forde?

  He nods. Yeah, yeah. I'll make sure she's fine. He hears Mickey take a drag on his cigarette. I'm gonna walk, Brian. I'm gonna take my chances with this trial. They haven't got shit all on me, not really. Listen, I want you to keep my shares safe for me. I don't trust no one else.

• 49:45Alice Levine?

  These guys have such bad judge of character.

• 49:49Matt Forde?

  Brian swallows hard. Course, Mickey. I'll let no one near it.

• 49:53Alice Levine?

  In fact, me and Jackie will lie on top of it so that nobody can get to it.

• 49:57Matt Forde?

  Me on top of her on top of the gold.

• 49:59Alice Levine?

  It's the safest way.

• 50:02Matt Forde?

  Tell Jackie I love her. Brian leans back, grabs his cigar and tries to light it, but his hands tremble too much. He throws it down, grabs his car keys, and heads out. He drives around until he's sure he's not being followed. Then heads to the lockup where most of the gold is hidden. At least he persuaded Mickey to move it from that house.

• 50:25Matt Forde?

  He steps quickly inside, picks up his remaining bars of gold, shoves them in his pockets.

• 50:33Matt Forde?

  He's about to head out when he stops. Stares down at Mickey and the Colonel's boxes. Mickey's deluded. He won't walk free from this. Not with his record, not with Tony's testimony, the Colonel neither.

• 50:48Matt Forde?

  And if Mickey wants him to look after all this gold, then he's not gonna run the risk of being caught with it.

• 50:54Matt Forde?

  A few minutes later, he heads to a phone box, puts Kenny and Oi's number in, takes a deep breath. No plan. I want everything speeded up. This is the biggest gamble of his entire life, but he's decided. He's already stolen Mickey's wife. Now, he's going to steal Mickey's gold.

• 51:24Alice Levine?

  In January 1995, 18-year-old Krista Pike and two friends lured a classmate, 19-year-old Colleen Schlemmer, to an abandoned steam plant and killed her. At just 20 years old, Pike was sentenced to death. 30 years later, on September 30, 2026, the state of Tennessee tried to execute her and failed. I'm Candace DeLong, former FBI profiler and host of the podcast Killer Psyche, where we go inside the minds behind the most shocking crimes. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Krista Pike. The brutal crime, the childhood of abuse, three decades of appeals,

• 52:06Alice Levine?

  and the night an execution went terribly wrong. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 52:25Matt Forde?

  Alice, it is the best time of year. We are just two months away from Christmas.

• 52:29Alice Levine?

  How could we forget how you lose your mind about this time of year? You absolutely go nuts.

• 52:35Matt Forde?

  I know it's a mature... I do. And I'm allergic to nuts, so that tells you how mad I get. I'm even more excited this year because we are having a British Scandal Christmas Party Special with the listeners.

• 52:47Alice Levine?

  OK, your demeanor is appropriate, then. This is massive. We've never done this before.

• 52:51Matt Forde?

  We haven't. This is long overdue. So to secure yourself a non-physical invite to this party, we want to know if you have a connection to a British Scandal character.

• 53:00Alice Levine?

  We cannot stress enough, a non-physical invite to the party. And the longer the chain of connections, the better, I think. So we're going to invite you to play the game British Scandal: Seven Degrees of Separation. Make it tenuous.

• 53:13Matt Forde?

  That is a catchy title.

• 53:14Alice Levine?

  Many thanks. Did your nan's neighbor's gardener drive the getaway car in the Millennium Dome highest?

• 53:21Matt Forde?

  Did your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother go to school with Mary Queen of Scots? There are prizes, and there is glory.

• 53:27Alice Levine?

  To be clear, non-physical invite. Email us at [email protected] with the subject line "Christmas Special", and please include as much detail and information as possible. The more obscure, the better.

• 53:40Matt Forde?

  We need your entries by the 10th of November, so email us. [email protected].

• 53:49Matt Forde?

  From Wondery and Samistat Audio, this is the first episode in our series, The Brink's Matt Heist.

• 53:55Alice Levine?

  A quick note about our dialogue: in most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

• 54:03Matt Forde?

  If you'd like to know more about this story, you can read The Curse of Brink's Matt and Public Enemy Number One: The Life and Crimes of Kenneth Noye by Wensley Clarkson; The Gold: The Real Story Behind Brink's Matt, Britain's Biggest Heist, by Neil Forsyth and Thomas Turner; Death Warrant: Kenneth Noye, the Brink's Matt Robbery and the Gold by Will Pearson; and Goldfinger and Me: Bullets, Bullion and Betrayal by Marney Palmer.

• 54:25Alice Levine?

  And remember, if you want to get in touch with us with comments, suggestions, complaints, ideas for scandals, then you can email us at [email protected]. British Scandal is hosted by me, Alice Levine.

• 54:37Matt Forde?

  And me, Matt Ford. Written by Karen Laws. Additional writing by Alice Levine and Matt Ford. Our story editor is James Maniak. Sound design by Richard Ward. Our engineer is Jai Williams. For Samistat, our producer is Chica Ayers. Our assistant producer is Redsey Bernard. Our senior producer is Joe Sykes. For Wondry, our series producer is Theodora La Ludis, and our managing producer is Rachel Sibley. Executive producers for Wondry are Estelle Doyle, Chris Bourne, Morgan Jones, and Marshall Lewy.

• 55:23Matt Forde?

  You stepped out for your morning jog, except it's not your usual morning jog. You started listening to an epic sci-fi book on Audible. Thirty chapters later, you've accidentally run a half marathon. You've lost track of how far you've run, somewhere just past the city limits. You can't stop. You have to find out what happens next. Then it's over. The universe seems bigger. You feel different. You feel like you have no idea where you are. Audible: Stories That Speak to You.

• 55:53Alice Levine?

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go, deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best binge-watch series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.