Yoshiki (X Japan) | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Billy Corgan welcomes legendary musician, composer, and X Japan co-founder Yoshiki for a conversation about creativity, rebellion, and building something that refuses to follow the rules. Yoshiki reflects on helping create the Visual Kei movement, pushing rock music to its limits with X Japan, and the personal losses that shaped him from losing his father at a young age to the heartbreaking deaths of his bandmates, survivor's guilt, and a struggle with depression that nearly consumed him. Along the way, he shares stories of working with legendary Beatles producer George Martin, composing a piano concerto for the Emperor of Japan, and turning a loan from his mother into the record label that helped change the course of Japanese rock. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:09Speaker 01

  I thought the music or art should be more free. There's no rule. I wanted to disrupt everything I could think of.

• 1:20Billy Corgan?

  What planet is this band from? Japan, Planet Japan, but it was so extreme.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  We didn't want people to define what who we are.

• 1:31Billy Corgan?

  This was something completely different.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  More critics hated us. I enjoyed it.

• 1:38Billy Corgan?

  Most of the credit goes to your band for starting this style.

• 1:43Billy Corgan?

  Yoshiki, thank you for being on my show. Nice to see you.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:48Billy Corgan?

  We've known each other for how long?

• 1:51Speaker 01

  Quite a long time, I guess.

• 1:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, it's been a while now. 20 years, maybe, a little less, something like that.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58Billy Corgan?

  So I did not know this until I was going to interview you, but you made the 100 Most Influential People in the World list 2025 for Time Magazine.

• 2:09Billy Corgan?

  Was that a surprise?

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. I think so.

• 2:13Billy Corgan?

  I mean, I mean, it doesn't surprise me because I know how successful you are. But still, that's an incredible list to end up on when you think of eight plus billion people on the planet.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  It's, um, yeah, it's a surprise.

• 2:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28Billy Corgan?

  Did they, did they warn you before or did you just one day you read that you're on this list?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  One day I just heard.

• 2:35Billy Corgan?

  Oh, really?

• 2:38Billy Corgan?

  Did anyone call you and offer you anything like?

• 2:41Speaker 01

  And I've done, I showed up in Time magazine a few times before.

• 2:45Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  So it's not like I'm really not familiar with, you know.

• 2:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Vibe.

• 2:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So I wanted to start here because I never knew that there was a term for it. But it's the idea of Visual K, which your band Ex Japan is seen as kind of the originator. Obviously, there's other people, but most of the credit goes to your band for starting this style, Visual K. So one small story before I ask you a question. But when Pumpkins first went to Japan around ninety two, ninety three,

• 3:23Billy Corgan?

  Ex Japan, your band is everywhere, but with this massive hair and this style. And to us, it was so alien. We'd never seen anything like it.

• 3:35Billy Corgan?

  So can you maybe explain a little bit the origin of the Visual K style? And, and what you, the band was thinking?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so I do have a classical music background. Started playing piano when I was four years old. So then, like at ten years old, when I was ten years old, I started playing drums. Like a classical to more like a punk rock drums. I mean, music, I'm influenced by Kiss and like that. The, the moment I lost my father. Actually, he took his own life. That's a very sad moment. Anyway, then fast forwarding.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Then um I made a band called X uh then eventually uh I mean uh later late uh so we well eventually changed the band name to X Japan.

• 4:29Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Because there's a band called X, amazing band called.

• 4:32Billy Corgan?

  Fam famous band from America, yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yes, so um anyway, so uh my background is classical music and rock music. Then um uh at that time, I was very influenced by more like a heavy thrash metal.

• 4:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  As well as punk rock.

• 4:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I was listening to some of your early your early music and I hear a lot of Lars Ulrich. You know.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Wasly, something like that.

• 5:04Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 5:07Billy Corgan?

  So Dave Lombardo and and Lars were were influences on this style for you.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course. So then about the same time, I was very into like a David Bowie or that kind of like.

• 5:21Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  There's also a band called Japan, like a uh that kind of like um glam rock, kind of like um. So then we just combined all those things, so.

• 5:35Billy Corgan?

  But other but other people had combined glam and rock before, but never like.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Very extreme.

• 5:42Billy Corgan?

  I mean, the extreme. So again, to us coming from America, this is early nineties. We would see posters or your band would be on television. We would think like, what planet is this band from Japan, Planet Japan? But but it was so extreme. So how do you go from, hey, let's dress up and be kind of cool glam to this the the massive wigs and whose whose idea was that first?

• 6:07Speaker 01

  So so because we are playing a very heavy music. There are a lot of critics came. And said, you know, if you wanna, how do you say, uh, sign to major label, you may wanna do the right look.

• 6:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  So look like, um, you know, heavy metal band.

• 6:29Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  That's like.

• 6:31Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, like your typical jean jackets.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Then I I respect that as well, but I I was so rebel against everything. I hated life that because I think that my father's suicide just had a lot of influence towards me. I was like, uh, so I did completely opposite.

• 6:53Billy Corgan?

  Was this was this born of anger or or born of rebellion?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Um, combination of a lot of things, sadness and then anger. Yeah, um, also Japanese culture was not in a bad way, but very, very conservative.

• 7:11Billy Corgan?

  It's still in many ways, very conservative.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  So when I was, um, high school or junior high, I dyed my hair red or blue. Then I don't think it's that right this moment, I mean, this time, but my teacher grabbed me and shaved my head.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that, you know, I knew I was doing not right thing because the school rule, but. So anyway, a lot of things just made me like that, kind of like, um, rock and roll, anger and everything.

• 7:47Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Even though I was playing classical music.

• 7:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  That moment.

• 7:51Billy Corgan?

  But, uh, I guess what I'm after is it seems particularly Japanese that you would take one element that other people had focused on, let's say, the glamour in in rock, and then push it to an absolute extreme. I mean, was there a progression? Did you guys have meetings? Did you talk about it? I mean, how do you? Because, you know, again, to us coming from America, it was like, what is happening? Because it was so different than anything we'd ever seen before. Because obviously, we'd seen when Lou Reed was sort of, you know, being androgynous with Transformer and Bowie's different guises and even New York Dolls.

• 8:32Billy Corgan?

  And Kiss was obviously very influenced by New York Dolls and that scene that they all grew up in. But this was something completely different. Can you at least walk me a bit through how you got there?

• 8:45Billy Corgan?

  Maybe to you it doesn't seem shocking, but to us, it was very shocking.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  I mean, it all happened, but my family used to run kimono. Japanese kimono business, producing kimono. Then, when I was young, my parents just, you know,

• 9:09Speaker 01

  me to put the kimono, something like that. Then sometime, there's some festival or something, they put makeup on me. And then some neighbor thought I was a girl, something like that. Then, anyway, so, you know, also there's a kabuki kind of culture in Japan or also anime culture in Japan.

• 9:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  So then, but mostly like influenced by David Bowie or something like that. So I decided to put the makeup, then play heavy music and then

• 9:45Speaker 01

  more critics hated us, I enjoyed it.

• 9:49Billy Corgan?

  I see. So the more the critics hated you, the more extreme.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  So I didn't want to belong.

• 9:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Not only me, that I somehow I met those amazing friends slash artists. We didn't want to belong to, we didn't want people to define what, who we are. Because, you know,

• 10:17Speaker 01

  There's basically no rule in terms of art. So but especially uh Japan around that time. Maybe our culture, I will respect that. At the same time, you want it, you want, they want to define who you are. You are like this, you should be. I didn't like it.

• 10:38Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Uh, I thought um the music or art should be more free. There's a no rule. I wanted to disrupt everything I could think of.

• 10:50Billy Corgan?

  Well, you definitely disrupted everything. Um.

• 10:56Billy Corgan?

  This is a question I would maybe only ask you because we know each other a bit and we're friendly. And I know you're a very generous person. So I'm asking you in a way to kind of explain something to me about Japanese culture that I've always found interesting.

• 11:14Billy Corgan?

  Of course, historically, Ja- Japan was a closed island up until about the eighteen fifties.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 11:19Billy Corgan?

  And and there are still the remnants of that closed society in the way Japan views other cultures. It's changing a bit now, but um.

• 11:31Billy Corgan?

  And we've even talked about some of those changes that are going on in Japanese culture now. But I guess what I'm saying is, for example,

• 11:40Billy Corgan?

  on a certain level to as to an American, it makes sense that that a Japanese band in rebellion would pick elements of that they like from rock and roll history and say, okay, we want to, because we did the same thing. But it seems very particular to Japanese culture that those elements would be different than the ones the Americans would focus on, and then it would be taken to this extreme. Of course, Japanese culture is very prevalent in in the world now.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:08Billy Corgan?

  But thirty years ago, less so.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:11Billy Corgan?

  Um, and it got, it does feed into the story of your band about how what became so popular and you guys became the biggest band in Japan didn't necessarily translate to other places, because like I said to us, it was so strange what you guys were doing. So can you at least explain to me? Maybe some of the elements that are particular to Japanese culture that maybe aren't the same as to Western culture. Does that make sense? Like, like, for example, when you said people would say, well, you're playing in a thrash band. You should look like Metallica would look or Megadeth or something like that. But but to a Japanese sensibility, that doesn't make sense. Can you explain that a little bit?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  So, um. First of all, like, let's say thirty, forty years ago. I mean,

• 13:00Speaker 01

  as far as I know, all the musicians are respected. I mean, still, but are respecting all the Western artists.

• 13:07Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  So more like a rock is like a culture of Western, not more like Eastern, right? That's that's a vibe. So when I told my mother first time I'm on the rock band, she's like, well, anyway, she end up taking me to Kiss concert. I was eleven years old, but um. But um. Yeah, there's no such word rock, kind of like existed in Japanese culture. More like there's a there's a Japanese pop music, um, something like that, but.

• 13:46Billy Corgan?

  Why, why do you think there isn't? I mean, there is more so now maybe than ever before, but certainly thirty years ago, there was very small Japanese rock culture.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Very.

• 13:57Billy Corgan?

  Like we knew Shonen Knife.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 13:59Billy Corgan?

  You know, because we played shows with Shonen Knife. We knew the the ladies in Shonen Knife. But Japanese rock was not even considered as its own uh, form of expression because it was always so Western.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:11Billy Corgan?

  Influenced.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Very small. Yeah.

• 14:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  In terms of the the record sales still at that time.

• 14:18Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:20Billy Corgan?

  So, but what? I think I guess what I'm trying to do is link to ideas.

• 14:27Billy Corgan?

  Your focus as Japanese artist was was very much in its own way, very Japanese. I don't know how else to explain it. Only a Japanese band would have made the choices that you made musically, melodically. Obviously, there's Western influences, but what makes Ex Japan so unique and such a famous band is you made choices that only Ex Japan would have made, very synonymous with Japanese culture to us as Western. But were you were you in some way celebrating Japanese culture? Was it innate to you to celebrate the things that you wanted to celebrate about Western music and it just ended up being its own thing? Does it make sense?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  It does.

• 15:08Billy Corgan?

  And also, did the Japanese fans rally because they thought, okay, here's a band making Japanese rock for Japanese fans? Was that part of the success?

• 15:19Speaker 01

  We didn't think that much.

• 15:22Billy Corgan?

  Well, most bands don't.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  We just thought something, we were very enjoying that every single part.

• 15:31Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  It's like, so let's see, I used to have a spike hair.

• 15:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, like this.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, I used to have entire hair like spike. Then one time before the show, I run out of time, so I only have half done. That's like, oh, oh, God, so I gotta be on stage. So I just showed up. They might as well put the left side, like put the white foundation or something. People liked it. I was like, oh, that's like anything not, how to say, conventional?

• 16:04Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  I liked it. Then, then, then the beginning of Ex Japan, you know, concert, we are just playing very heavy music. The one time, there's a piano, the club. They couldn't move that piano.

• 16:21Billy Corgan?

  So it was just on stage?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's kind of side of the stage, but that's just really like a center of the stage almost ish. So I was like, you know what, just leave it, I'll play back. Or Chopin, middle of the set, middle of the flashmate or concert, I played. The people liked it, like huh, this may work, so.

• 16:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  So we didn't think that much, it was just happening organically.

• 16:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. What do you think are some of the elements, looking back now?

• 16:54Billy Corgan?

  That makes Ex Japan different than most bands of the last, rock bands of the last thirty years? Like, can you, can you, for people who don't know Ex Japan's music? Can you explain a little bit, like, what you think makes the band different?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Um, okay, so even though we are, we were doing this kind of, I will still, but heavy music? I wrote every single note, even guitar solo to the music score.

• 17:24Billy Corgan?

  So would you, would you actually chart out the guitar solos? Oh, I didn't know that.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  So, I, I mean, there are also, you know, amazing guitar player or bass player. So they wrote the song as well, Taiji Hidet, Pata, he's now Sugizo, Toshi. But I wrote probably eighty, ninety percent of the song. At the beginning, I was, because of my classical music background, I wrote even double bass, everything. I wrote the music score, they gave it to my members, they're like, what the?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  What is this? Oh, I see, so I need to, maybe I play the piano and then this guitar solo like this and then. So even though we are doing the heavy music, that how we construct, you know, construct the music was, the music was very different.

• 18:16Billy Corgan?

  Ah.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  So I care about every single voicing, so this guitar is not gonna crash with this bass and then guitar could be, three guitar could be played this and something like that. We will cast our way of creating the music.

• 18:28Billy Corgan?

  So I, I think I did it the same way, but I did it all in my head. Because I have no, I think I told you before, I can't read music, you know?

• 18:36Speaker 01

  But you have a naturally, you know, talented, and then you have.

• 18:39Billy Corgan?

  I appreciate, but I'm saying is I had, I couldn't write, so I had to compose all in my head.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Basically, same thing. We are doing the same thing.

• 18:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  So that was already, you know, strange way to start.

• 18:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah, because to, to Western ears, Japanese rock metal always sounds a bit strange.

• 19:05Billy Corgan?

  And you've lived in America so long, I think you understand.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:08Billy Corgan?

  Why it probably sounds strange to, to Western ears.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 19:11Billy Corgan?

  Maybe it's the Ja, the, the use of Japanese melody on top of conventional rock. You know what I'm saying?

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:18Billy Corgan?

  And certainly, your band was very influential, like. Every time I go to Japan now, I mean, I hear so many bands that are still doing what you guys were doing thirty years ago. I don't know what you would call that style of music. It's almost like a very, I don't want to call it pop metal, because that's the wrong way to put it. Like, almost like Japanese pop melody over the, over very heavy aggressive music.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 19:41Billy Corgan?

  That seems very akin to Japanese culture.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:44Billy Corgan?

  You, you, maybe you hear more influence now in America from that, but that goes back to Japanese culture, which goes back to your band.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 19:51Billy Corgan?

  Do you hear that, that, those influences?

• 19:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm very grateful. A lot, a lot of artists mention my band, or even, even K-pop, so.

• 20:03Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 20:04Billy Corgan?

  That's a cool compliment.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:07Billy Corgan?

  Um. There's one thing I wanted to ask you about, because I think, and you've seen it, where, uh, Western bands come to Japan, and it's almost like, uh.

• 20:19Billy Corgan?

  They almost infantilize the audience, like, oh, the Japanese audience is so quiet. There was, you know what I'm saying? Can you, can you tell us, because you have such a special relationship with Japanese fans? Can you tell us, like, what the, with the true, what's the best understanding of the Japanese audience? Because I think the Western bands oftentimes get the wrong impression of a Japanese audience.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Well, Japanese audience could be extremely, extremely like.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Loud and passionate. So, so it's like an in-between set when I start talking.

• 20:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  They become very quiet, right? Then when I say scream, they just became louder than the, the anything. So it's very, I don't know. Somehow, not in a bad way, contained but explosive.

• 21:09Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay. Do you, is do, but do Western artists misunderstand the Japanese crowd? Do you, do you see where sometimes Western artists misjudge the crowd?

• 21:20Speaker 01

  I think, you know, also I've been traveling all over the world. I mean, they're playing a concert. So it's not, not different than any other, you know, the audience, audience, just.

• 21:31Billy Corgan?

  But may, maybe now, but, but, but you, you remember the early nineties? The Japanese crowds were very quiet.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:37Billy Corgan?

  At least to a rock band.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:38Billy Corgan?

  I remember going to see Nirvana play Tokyo Sun Palace.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:43Billy Corgan?

  Ninety-two.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:45Billy Corgan?

  And it was, this is the height of Nevermind. I mean, it was so quiet. You know what I mean? In between songs, it was like there was not one person talking.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:55Billy Corgan?

  I mean, you would never find a grunge concert in nineteen ninety-two, anywhere in the world where it would be quiet between songs.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  That's true, actually.

• 22:03Billy Corgan?

  So that's what I'm saying.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:04Billy Corgan?

  That sort of, uh, but, but when I see the amount of love that the Japanese audience has had for your band. You guys have sold out the, the sun, the Tokyo Dome like eighteen times. I mean, there's a passionate connection there.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:20Billy Corgan?

  So I guess what I'm trying to say is, is there a secret to that understanding of that audience? That maybe most Western rock bands misunderstand?

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Um, I think what we did was it's okay to scream.

• 22:33Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I think they had the same kind of like amount of emotion. It's in, you know, the, uh, my fans, uh, or every single like rock band's fan. So, but they didn't know it's okay to scream or not. So you just push that button.

• 22:50Billy Corgan?

  Ah.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  So then, then Japanese fans are very sweet and then, but also again, it's very emotional as well. So if you just say it's okay to scream and if you, you know, then they can be louder than anyone in the world.

• 23:03Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah. I didn't know this about you, but I was doing my research about sort of the DIY roots of the band, you know, because again, my first connection to your band was you were this massive, people at the time were saying this band is as big as the Beatles. They're like, they would call you the Japanese Beatles or something. You know what I mean? This massive band. So, but I didn't know there was a DIY route that you formed your own record label to put out the music. Can you talk about that experience? Because like you said, there really wasn't a Japanese rock business when you started.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Right. So I was very influenced by punk rock world. So at that time, some rock band, I mean, there's amazing rock bands there, they're all trying to be signed by a major label. So then, of course, the critics are very important for at that time. I mean, still, but then-

• 24:09Billy Corgan?

  Less so.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Depends how you look at it. But so then I was told for so many, you know, critics, even like my guitar player, Hidet, he's, he passed away, but he was like, kind of like a cult leader of the ex Japan. So, you know, if we be, if we can be good friend with these critics, you know, he's, he'll open the door for us to be signed by a major label. I respected everything, but I was like, I just want to do something crazy or just, you know, I had some kind of vision. Just I didn't want to fall into this, that again, the same thing, the one category. I was like, if, you know, I don't want to

• 24:55Speaker 01

  follow the rule. So why don't I just create the new label? So there's, those punk rock band had their own small label, very small, but that was kind of like a trend.

• 25:09Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:11Billy Corgan?

  How'd you get the money to start your own label?

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Well, so I asked my mother.

• 25:18Billy Corgan?

  Was she supportive of you of you playing rock?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  So it's kind of a little deep because my father took his own life. She approached us to me. She said, um, um, I chose the partner who abandoned you. So I was like, it's not your fault or anything, but she said she felt like she owes me something. Like, Mom, I'm okay, but let me do what I wanna do. But at the same time, uh, you know, she said, stop doing rock man sometime, you know?

• 26:04Speaker 01

  So, um, when I was like at twenty, twenty one, like, because I was supposed to go to music college then.

• 26:12Billy Corgan?

  For classical?

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Um, classical, yeah. So there was, how do you say, a scholarship, that scholarship. But I said, Mom, I'm gonna do rock. So anyway, she said, maybe I'm gonna do a few years and I'm gonna give up or something like that. Then they were talking, then I wanna create a label. Then can you, can I borrow money?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  How much? Like, uh, maybe hundred K?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  She said, okay.

• 26:40Billy Corgan?

  Oh, wow.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  So then I said, I'll return probably within a year or something like that.

• 26:49Speaker 01

  Then she didn't believe me, but I made ten times more, they returned it to her. So anyway, so we decided to make our own album. So then, um, the album sold a lot. So then they eventually, we signed Sony Record.

• 27:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Billy Corgan?

  At what point, uh, because you talked about having a vision and I think this is a very ahead of its time. It's almost like you didn't just build a successful music band and brand. You built almost like your own world. And like you said, I, you know, some of it was just accidental. I played the piano when I had a stage and the fans loved it. So it becomes part of what you do. But, but, but by the mid nineties, I mean, ex Japan was this massive business. I mean, you're selling like crazy amounts of records in Japan. I mean, even if you Google right now and you say, who's the biggest rock band in Japanese history?

• 27:57Billy Corgan?

  It's ex Japan. They say there's some other band, I don't know, but they said, maybe you could argue this other band is bigger. But at the end of the day, the real influence is ex Japan. So even now, it's, you're still considered the biggest band, rock band ever in Japan. And, and you know, because you grew up there, but I know because I know my history, like bands like Deep Purple were massive in, in Japan.

• 28:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:24Billy Corgan?

  I mean, they weren't just successful bands that went to Japan. I mean, they were massive in Japan in a way that was even shocking to the bands. So to be a bigger band than those bands in your home country is, is an incredible accomplishment. But at what point was this your vision that you sort of almost built like ex Japan world? Cause it seemed that you were ahead of the curve with, that the band could be bigger than just a music band.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  So, um, the new year, new year's eve, um, in Tokyo Dome.

• 28:55Billy Corgan?

  What year now?

• 28:55Speaker 01

  Um, long time ago. So, so the all those, um, let's see, um, like, um, somebody like Michael Jackson or, or like, uh,

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Bon Jovi or those people, Ajahn Jackson, they are doing their New Year's Eve concert in Tokyo Dome. There was like a um

• 29:19Billy Corgan?

  Like

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Big amazing western artists, you know, two nights of, so then eventually we took over. First Japanese artist. At that moment, like, we might have made it.

• 29:34Billy Corgan?

  Who was your, was Mr. Udo your promoter at that time?

• 29:36Speaker 01

  At that time, he was a promoter. Um, now we work with Udo, but it could be, could be.

• 29:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:45Billy Corgan?

  I'm just curious, because we always work with Mr. Udo in the nineties.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, they're amazing. So they are my, one of my promoters.

• 29:52Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we did not know, like, um, so like, what's exactly success mean?

• 30:01Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Billy Corgan?

  Um. But where's the vision for like making the brand as part, you know, because you were ahead of the curve of understanding that you could do other things with the band's success, not just sell records. When I tried similar things in the nineties in America, I was told no.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  No?

• 30:22Billy Corgan?

  I was told no. I was told no by people in L.A. When I tried to make my band bigger than just a music band that sold records, I was told no.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:32Billy Corgan?

  Now it's understood that that's what you do.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:35Billy Corgan?

  I mean, now you have Yoshiki credit cards. I mean, you you expanded your brand and the solo members of X Japan went on to also have their own individual success. So you guys were ahead of that curve more so than western artists.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 30:51Billy Corgan?

  But I'm saying, who was the vision on this idea that the band could be a brand?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 30:57Billy Corgan?

  Does that make sense the way I'm asking it?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 30:59Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Um, because, um, again, I look at a big picture, uh, sometimes way too, way too big. Uh, even a lot of my people say just focus on something. Um, I'm focusing, but. There's basically no rule. Um, we are just living uh in the world of somebody, like even music industry. Like, you know, so even uh entertainment business, record industry business. Why do we, why do we sign to the label? Why do we make uh some music like, you know, an album like uh once a year, twice, uh once in two years?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Then do tour or I just have, you know, I just, the system, when I look at it, it's because I also love classical music, like, you know, let's see 200 years ago, what Beethoven was doing or what Mozart was thinking. Or like, let's see 100 years from now, what's gonna be happening? So there's no rule. I mean, these are very small to me. So you don't have to follow, you know, again, it can be musician or slash fashion designer or, you know, I'm also create wine. There's no rule to me, so.

• 32:22Billy Corgan?

  But you understand, you're, you were way ahead of this idea. Now every pop star thinks this way. And in many cases, rock bands do too now, but you were thinking like this in the 90s. I mean, we were over here in the grunge moment, where it was very much about authenticity and, you know, the critics deciding who was cool, not cool.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  I love it though.

• 32:47Billy Corgan?

  Yes, but it's, but if you think about it, it's not good, in many ways, it wasn't good for business.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  I, I love the uh like, kind of like a hair metal was destroyed by.

• 33:00Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's true. There's truth to it.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I was, I was, it was so exciting, the Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins.

• 33:07Billy Corgan?

  Were you, were you, were you guys paying attention to what was going on in America in the 90s?

• 33:11Speaker 01

  At that time, probably, uh, we, I came to America around that time.

• 33:15Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, that's when you kind of started living here.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that was a transition that was like, wow, it's amazing. Like, you know, I respect the hair metal band too, but these things are like, you know, kind of revolutionizing. That's exciting.

• 33:28Billy Corgan?

  It was, it was a very exciting time.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:30Billy Corgan?

  Um, I didn't hear a ton of grunge influence in your band's music. You guys seem to not.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  We do, we do.

• 33:38Billy Corgan?

  You think so? Yeah, you'd have to tell me which songs. I didn't find them. Because I think you have a distinctive style. So I'm saying that's a good thing that you weren't necessarily influenced by what was going on in America at the time.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  To me, like a grand star is more like, um, how do you say?

• 33:56Billy Corgan?

  Is it more an attitude?

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Attitude and then artistic way of, you know, more like you are in your heart, like a.

• 34:05Billy Corgan?

  Authenticity.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, there's some certain style of music as well.

• 34:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  But we do have that kind of influence.

• 34:13Billy Corgan?

  Okay, yeah, because I went looking for it because because oftentimes bands are, you know, they they they are influenced by the things that are going on. Because part of your story is, you know, ex Japan became a phenomenon in Japan, but the phenomenon didn't necessarily translate outside of Japan. That's part of the story of the band. Now that's grown over time. That's different. That's a different story, but.

• 34:42Billy Corgan?

  Did the success affect the members' relationships? Because you had so much success. I mean, more success than I ever had. You know what I'm saying? So it's hard for me to understand what that must feel like, especially in a country like. Because really, if you think about it, there's only two countries in the world where that sort of success translates into a cultural phenomenon, the UK and Japan.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 35:08Billy Corgan?

  America, of course, it has it, but it's so big that by the time it gets there, it takes a long time. Where in Japan and and the UK, it can happen very fast. And for you guys, it seemed to happen fast. Did it feel like it happened fast?

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Yes, very fast.

• 35:24Billy Corgan?

  So did that affect the internal relationships with the with the band members?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Did.

• 35:28Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Can you tell me? Just tell me how?

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yes, probably we can somehow relate to because, you know, I'm I'm the leader of the group.

• 35:38Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, wow, you get all the you get all the blame.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I tried very hard, but.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  You know, the um, um. It's hard to explain, but um, suddenly.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  A lot of money come came to, you know, band, also the lifestyle changing. When we used to tour, sometime we were sleeping um, in the car or, you know. Um, some parking lot or even park or something like that. I used to enjoy that. Then now everyone has their own suite room and blah, blah, blah. Um, I, um, yeah, then when I realized, so then I wanted to go to America. Or, you know, but well, western music art industry to try, right? Because I was kind of fearless, um.

• 36:37Billy Corgan?

  Were you thinking, sorry, were you thinking that I need to figure out how to take my band into the world now?

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Thank you. So, yeah, because we went to from, let's see, club to Tokyo Dome. At like at the speed of light or something like that, just very fast.

• 36:54Billy Corgan?

  Crazy.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  It's like, um, whatever I said, I'm gonna do Budokan six months from now. Like, you're still playing club, like, no, I'll do it. Then when I set the goal, I was like, I just made it.

• 37:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Like, okay, then we played Budokan, so I played Tokyo Dome, like, okay? When? Um, six months from now. And then the Sony said, no, you can't. Okay, no, I will. So.

• 37:22Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Then, then we did it. Then, six months later, I'm gonna play three nights. Then the label said, no, you can't. No, we will. Then we did. Then, I said, now we're going to America, then blah, blah, blah.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  So the curve from club, playing club to Tokyo Dome was so fast, like it was so steep. Then from there, I came here in America. Then like, wow, it's a completely different world. So first of all, at that time, I didn't, I spoke zero English, zero. So early twenty, or no, mid twenty. So wow, I need to speak English, you know. So I started studying. Anyway, then all the band members came. Then we had to start from the get-go, pretty much. Everything we built in Japan, but that didn't apply anything here.

• 38:22Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  So then, you know, everybody lived first one year here. But we never have, we have holiday. All the members went back to Japan because in Japan, we are treated like rock star. Then here, we are nobody. I kind of loved it. But so the gap in between those two worlds.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Uh, kind of like, um, I don't know, slowly start separating us, like what you wanna do or you already feel accomplished, or you wanna be, you know, go more higher place. So, so then, to me, I tried to. I, I don't know, um, the organize the band. Let's try to, you know, if we can, we can do it, we can do in, uh, how do you say? Uh, do something in, in western music industry.

• 39:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  But, um, it was not easy. So we started slowly like falling apart.

• 39:26Billy Corgan?

  Ah.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:27Billy Corgan?

  That must have been difficult.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Very difficult.

• 39:29Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Because looking back now, because we see, of course, the success of BTS and other international artists where they don't even have to sing in English.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:40Billy Corgan?

  Like, if you had had those same opportunities, maybe most people in the West would know your band.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Mm.

• 39:47Billy Corgan?

  The way that the Japanese audiences knew your band.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  But at the same, yeah, so there I kind of know them a little bit BTS and those people. They also worked, the K-pop music band also working for a long time, little by little. Um, they didn't make it like the successful overnight, so I really respect their K-pop world as well. So, yeah.

• 40:11Billy Corgan?

  But, but, but, sorry, but you, but you understand because you, you dealt with America. You came here and you're like, okay, wow, this is a big difference.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:19Billy Corgan?

  If we're gonna solve this, if it's a problem. Thirty years ago, the idea that, that a band could come, especially from Asia,

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:29Billy Corgan?

  sing in their native language and be successful in America, that's, there was, the chance of that happening was zero thirty years ago.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 40:39Billy Corgan?

  I mean, I mean, loudness had had some success, but, you know, for, for the metal fans, you know what I mean?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:46Billy Corgan?

  But always the compromise that the artist must sing in, in English.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 40:52Billy Corgan?

  You know, now it's totally understood that you can be successful singing in your native language. Right? There was even a huge controversy with Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl this year because he was singing in Spanish.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 41:03Billy Corgan?

  But if you really think about it, he's singing in the language that he's most comfortable in and he's just, it's just music.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:12Billy Corgan?

  Right? So what I'm saying is, is I'm trying to at least explain to people that the idea of, of a Japanese band coming to America in the nineties, at the height of grunge.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:23Billy Corgan?

  And try to figure out how to be part of the Western music culture.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 41:28Billy Corgan?

  It's actually a lot more distant than it would seem today.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 41:32Billy Corgan?

  Do you, you agree with that? Yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Yes. So I kind of put the same format. I, I respect the culture, so I started learning. At the same time, I, we don't have to belong here, that kind of same.

• 41:48Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  So stance.

• 41:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  So.

• 41:51Billy Corgan?

  I get it.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  We are who we are, so again, with respect. So that's how I was like, you know, I tried, we came here not to become a Western music band. As a, still, still have the identity of Japanese group. So that's I would try to. Convinced, I talked to label or members, you don't have to change. It can be who we are, then we can still make it. About that moment, that three decades ago, was hard to convince.

• 42:25Billy Corgan?

  Yes, yes. Would you meet with music executives in America and try to say, this is my vision? And they agreed with you or they told you you were crazy?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  I very say I was crazy. Yeah, pretty much, hands down, like.

• 42:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to do this. Yeah, then I listened to it, I respected that, but.

• 42:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  That my vision was different.

• 42:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So.

• 42:55Billy Corgan?

  I'm not interested in why the band broke up. I mean, bands break up stories. There's the real story and there's the public story. So I'm not asking for the real story. But it strikes me that that the band breaking up was particularly painful for you, that it wasn't, that it came at a bad time or not. Maybe it's never a good time, but how do you look at it now? Because obviously, the band has endured, the band has reformed many times and played concerts, and the band is loved and revered, you know, for what it's accomplished. But at the time, how did you feel with?

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Extremely painful. I mean, I'm like what maybe you went through. So.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Our band is still here. It's, yeah, broke up and then came back and then. So the most painful moment, still very painful, was the death.

• 43:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Of my guitar player, Hidet. Then the Taiji, I fired him, but then, but before he killed himself, I brought him back to the stage again, or maybe we brought him back to the stage again. Then we're gonna do something together, but then also other bass player, that he's, so there, those members' deaths, it's hard to bear. Yeah, still. I really thought.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Why, why that was not me? I, I was telling Hidet that, that, you know, the guitar player.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  For some reason, we talked about death, kind of strange, but. Um, because, I don't know, I keep talking about death, then like, I'm gonna die first. Something like this.

• 44:54Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Um, not in a like more, like a dark way, but. Hmm. So that the word death was always in me for some reason. Well, obviously, because my father took his life, so. So, at the same time, I try to use that thoughts in a more positive way. Because, um, worst comes worst, I die tomorrow. So why don't I do as much as we can today to, you know? So, um, I had some, uh, still have like, uh, not depression, but like, um, if I start thinking too much,

• 45:39Speaker 01

  I go to the darkest corner of the night or something like this. So I, I try to shift that.

• 45:47Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Energy into something positive.

• 45:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  But the, to face the death of band members, I was like, what did I do? So if I didn't ask them to join, because I pretty much

• 46:06Speaker 01

  headhanded every single band members. Uh, they are also leader of the band. So to, for me to create the, the biggest band, I, I had to headhunt like, uh, the band leaders. Anyway, so if they didn't. Join my band. Maybe they are still alive or something like this. I was like, just not really.

• 46:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, well, you know, in, in, in psych, Western psychology, they call it survivor guilt. Do you know this idea? Where the survivor feels somehow guilty that it should be them and.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  I have it.

• 46:41Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Still.

• 46:44Billy Corgan?

  I saw this thing in, in this documentary where your mother was talking about that she thought you were not going to make it to be an adult.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 46:53Billy Corgan?

  Was, was it a psychic that told her that or?

• 46:57Speaker 01

  No, physically I was so weak. I had asthma, asthma attack like.

• 47:02Billy Corgan?

  So was a doctor had, had said that you weren't going to survive?

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Constantly. So I was pretty much like a living in hospital when I was kid.

• 47:10Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 47:11Speaker 01

  So yeah, physically very weak. So then, yeah, doctor was telling my mother, he's not going to survive.

• 47:18Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hmm.

• 47:24Billy Corgan?

  Um, I didn't know this about you, but I saw where you work with George Martin. You put a classical album, ninety, ninety-three?

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Something like that.

• 47:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. You're not so good with the date.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  You're amazing.

• 47:39Billy Corgan?

  No, I have to do my research, but, but, um, that must have been a big thrill to work with George Martin.

• 47:45Speaker 01

  Hmm. So I learned orchestration after worked with George Martin.

• 47:50Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:52Billy Corgan?

  Oh, so you studied it after you worked.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 47:54Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Yes. So like English, like when I came here, I spoke English. Yeah.

• 47:59Billy Corgan?

  I see. So he did the orchestration for your, your classical. This was your first classical album, yeah?

• 48:04Speaker 01

  My first original classical album. I made like a Yoshiki selection, something like this, you know, um, uh, before I just picked like a, picked like a, uh, this song from Beethoven or this song from Tchaikovsky.

• 48:19Billy Corgan?

  Oh, I see.

• 48:19Speaker 01

  They made album called Yoshiki Selection. I made two albums, so we came pretty big sales. So then I was like, my brother might make my own classical album. So then.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  End up working with George Martin.

• 48:33Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:34Billy Corgan?

  So these were all original compositions that he?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  So he translated like, let's say seventy, eighty percent music, I, I, which I compose from ex Japan song into classical music.

• 48:46Billy Corgan?

  Ah, and then he?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they also wrote twenty, thirty percent music to just classical song.

• 48:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:54Billy Corgan?

  Wow. Can you tell us, could, because not that many people in their life worked with George Martin. Could you, could you understand, having worked with him, could you understand why he was such a successful producer?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, he listened to the artist. So even though that time, my English was very limited.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  So he must have had a hard time understanding what I'm trying to say, but, but so I play the piano, this, so I wanna do this thing. I, so this place, I don't like staccato, I want more legato, or like, well, you know, I tried to uh, give him as much as input as possible, but then he absorbed all those, you know, the, what I want, then he made something even better, something like that.

• 49:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, well, that's what a brilliant person does, right?

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:50Billy Corgan?

  They almost make it better than you can imagine.

• 49:55Billy Corgan?

  How old were you when the, when, when ex Japan broke up?

• 50:00Billy Corgan?

  Still pretty young.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Um, thirty

• 50:06Speaker 01

  two, thirty, early thirty.

• 50:08Billy Corgan?

  So early thirties, yeah?

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, first time when I broke up, when we broke, yeah.

• 50:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Could you, could you have envisioned then that you would go on to all this other success in life? You know, like you said, I mean, there's, you know, in English, we say polymath or autodidact, you know, you, you went on fashion design. You have your own wine label. You work with some of the biggest brands in the world. In many ways, you're more famous than you were in ex Japan as your own person, which is very hard to do, as you know.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  I was very confident at that time, regardless. But also, Hidet and I were thinking, well, the reason we broke up was my dear friend, Toshi, the vocalist, he was brainwashed.

• 51:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, he was in a cult or something, yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because I saw that and I thought, this is so crazy.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so to make the long story short,

• 51:16Speaker 01

  he was doing some musical. He was, how do you say? He met the musical hero, the partner. Eventually, he ended up marrying the lady.

• 51:34Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was in the, I don't know if I can say that, but yeah, I think so. She was in the cult. So then she dragged him into the cult.

• 51:47Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  So then, I think what they do is they make enemy, right? So I was the enemy.

• 51:55Billy Corgan?

  But that's typical to cults.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:58Billy Corgan?

  We're the good team, they're the bad team. We know the right way, they know the bad way.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:04Billy Corgan?

  And they isolate the person.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Exactly, so exactly, he was isolated.

• 52:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  I didn't know how deep he was in. But anyway, so then one day, he came to, for some reason, around that time, a lot of people, a lot of members living in Japan, then I was living in San Diego, then came here and then said, I want to leave the band. Like, I actually grew, uh, grew up with him. Like, I met him when I was four, five years old, same elementary school and everything. So when I saw his eyes, I was like, okay, I think that's what you want. So I didn't really say, try to stop him or anything, like, I kind of understood.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  Then, but Hidae, the other member was very angry and then, no, he can't, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so I was very calm. Then, then, you know, Hidae and I talked about, maybe we can do a Japan in a few years from now again. So when things said, one more, timing's right, blah, blah, blah. Then I was doing my own thing, Hidae was doing his own thing, then Toshi joined the cult.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  For some reason, I was not angry or anything, very calm, like, like, um. Then several months later, Hidae passed away. That moment, I was like, everything like shattered, like, um. Then I became very depressed.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Then I decided not to do anything. Actually, I just didn't want to even leave my house, just, uh. I didn't want to open the window, just, uh, just stay in the darkness.

• 53:56Billy Corgan?

  Did it bring up a lot of feelings too because of your father's passing?

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, somehow those two, you know, I mean, few decades apart, but was kind of like, uh, hit me, it's really hard.

• 54:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so pretty much I didn't, well, I decided, at that moment, I decided to be on stage and not be on stage.

• 54:20Billy Corgan?

  And not be on stage?

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Not be on stage, I, I quit, basically. I, I, I tried to become a composer.

• 54:27Billy Corgan?

  Oh, you were just gonna go behind the scenes?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  Behind the scenes, completely, not the, you know, performer.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  So then I told my mother, I'll never, I'm not gonna perform anymore. I've just become composer and then just composing songs. Then maybe producing artist, something like that, but that's too painful to face this anymore.

• 54:48Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Then about a year later, I was asked to compose the piano concerto for Emperor of Japan,

• 55:02Speaker 01

  the 10th anniversary of his reign.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  I was like, what?

• 55:12Speaker 01

  I feel very honored and then at the same time, I was not confident at that was I was like in the darkest corner of the world. They asked my mother, what should I do? She said, you should do it. Then I ended up composing like seven, eight minutes.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  I actually composed 20 minutes long, but I condensed it to seven minutes because the ceremony, some length issue, something like that. Then I ended up performing the Emperor of Paris with orchestra. Then I heard that, like, I don't know, 10,000, 20,000, 50,000, I don't remember, but the, the audience screaming voice of the Emperor, Emperor Paris. It's like, wow, I should come back to the stage.

• 56:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Wow, very powerful.

• 56:05Billy Corgan?

  I'm curious because you've lived, you've had such tremendous success in Japan, but you've been in the US for three decades. And you know, of course, you know, many musical artists, US musical artists. What have you learned about American culture that you could only have learned by living here for so long now? Are you fascinated by the culture? I mean, you know, obviously Americans have very diverse opinions about American culture.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:36Billy Corgan?

  But you coming from an intense culture and Japanese culture to American culture, what have you learned to understand about American culture?

• 56:46Speaker 01

  American culture is, well, especially I live in Los Angeles.

• 56:52Billy Corgan?

  That's a, as you know, that's a whole nother planet.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  It's, you know, of course, I, you know, I go to Chicago sometime or New York a lot.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  It's very, how do you say, um, mixed, right? A melting pot. So we learn a lot of different countries' culture being here.

• 57:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  So, uh, which is, I think which is amazing. Being in Japan, like, um, I'm not saying it's bad or good, more, less dimensional.

• 57:27Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Right, so in, being in America, it's like a multi-dimensional things. That's, yeah, there I still learn a lot.

• 57:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:35Billy Corgan?

  You could see, cause when you have success as an American artist in America, it's such an intense experience because you have to draw from so many sources.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:44Billy Corgan?

  In order for it to work. You know, like take the grunge revolution, you know? It has Black Sabbath in it, it has Cheap Trick in it, it has Kiss in it, it has, you know, uh, Husker Du. I mean, that culture, that alternative culture, The Cure, Susie and the Banshees, it drew from so many sources that when it finally kind of came together, it was like, it was so intense for everybody involved. And then there's like, wow, this is really working. And, you know, for 300 million people. What is the Japanese population, like 80, 80 million maybe? Does that sound right?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, something like that.

• 58:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Oh, in Japan now?

• 58:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, what is a?

• 58:29Speaker 01

  A hundred.

• 58:29Billy Corgan?

  Hundred, okay, yeah, more, yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:31Billy Corgan?

  I think maybe it was 80 before, that's why.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:34Billy Corgan?

  Um, I was thinking about this because you've, you've had success in so many different ways and you've become world renowned, not just as a musician, which is again, an interesting thing to pull off because, you know, usually when you're a musician, that's all anybody sees you as, you're just a musician.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:51Billy Corgan?

  And like you said, you had the experience of being successful in the classical side of the thing. Like as we're about to tape, you're about to play these, um, shows at the Walt Disney, uh, venue. I don't know what to call it.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Walt Disney Concert Hall.

• 59:06Billy Corgan?

  Concert Hall, yeah, that means beautiful venue.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:09Billy Corgan?

  Um, and you're playing two nights, right? That, that, that. That thing.

• 59:16Billy Corgan?

  Where am I trying to go with this? I'm lost in the idea, but I guess. Is there somebody behind the scenes that helped you build this kind of Yoshiki empire? You know what I mean? Cause like when my wife first met you, it's like it's hard to explain who you are to my wife. Like I know who you are and we're, we have this, some of the same friends. So we all know who you are, but like to someone like my wife, it's like, where do you start to explain who Yoshiki is in 2026? I could say, well, he used to be in this big Japanese band and sometimes they still play, but he does all this other stuff. Like the day you told me you had your own credit card. I was so impressed. How do you get your own credit card? Is there somebody behind the scenes who helped you build this kind of empire that you have?

• 59:59Billy Corgan?

  Is there, is there a secret business associate partner that we don't know about? Or is it really just all going through you?

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  First of all, you know, it didn't happen overnight. Also, uh, there are so many not success story as well. So, you know.

• 1:00:17Billy Corgan?

  Okay, give me one, give me one big failure.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Good question, actually. Well, some, somehow though those failure moment, I made it to success eventually.

• 1:00:29Billy Corgan?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  So once you say I gave up, then you fail.

• 1:00:33Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  So if you don't give up, may take another decade or two. So if you say, no, I mean, it's just still in the process of doing this.

• 1:00:43Billy Corgan?

  Is it a positive mental attitude or is it, or is it something born of, of strength because of your, your, the hardships in your life?

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  It's like, um, it's like, uh, how you take like a embarrassing moment. Right? So I take it like.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  I blame myself, so pretty much ninety-nine percent is my fault. So this is my decision. So I don't blame anyone else. So I decide, I decide to do this. Then, okay, that means I can improve it from here. So then I say I failed this one as of now. But it's not the end.

• 1:01:37Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  So that's kind of mentality, so I guess. Then, yeah, so once you stamped, it's, it's done. Then, oh, okay, that project was failed, something like this. Um, yeah, although it's like, again, it's kind of strange, but I didn't really plan. Uh, like my wine or something like this. Um, I happen to have friends that are drinking, like, um, have a collection of amazing wine. They then somehow start drinking wine a little by little. Not like heavily, but then someday, uh, the Mondavi family, Robert Mondavi family. They may wanna collaborate, like, okay, so.

• 1:02:22Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  But it took a long time. It's like first five years was very hard, uh, but I didn't wanna quit. So they took off like, you know, six, seven years later. Now I've been doing fifteen years.

• 1:02:35Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Billy Corgan?

  You make it look easy, that's what I'm trying to say.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Even in fashion, you know, the, it's like, I've been doing all those things for decades.

• 1:02:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. How so, how so Yoshikiya? Is it Maison, Maison Yoshikiya?

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like a new, and I launched a few years ago in Paris. Um, in the process of, yeah, it's, um.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  It's not easy, actually. Work really hard.

• 1:03:03Billy Corgan?

  Well, I know you work hard, yeah. So I don't mean to make it seem like it. But I I just wondered if there was somebody behind the scenes that helped you put all these things together, because.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  I think I have a a lot amazing stuff. Yeah, um, amazing business partners, I guess.

• 1:03:22Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:24Billy Corgan?

  Because it's it's unusual. I mean, I can't think of very many other people in rock that have transitioned into this wider brand business portfolio.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  I don't know if I'm doing right.

• 1:03:41Billy Corgan?

  Well, I I I I I almost used the word envy, but you're a friend of mine, so I don't think of you in envious way. I'm proud and happy for you. But I envy that you've been able to take your success and expand it into other things. It's it's impressive to me because I I know it's not easy.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for saying that. So I wanna be an artist. So, you know, um, eventually, like, eventually, like, we die, right? I die. So then then let's see, somebody describes, somebody will describe me after my death. Who was Yoshiki?

• 1:04:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Then I was, I would like to be known as an artist, not, not the arm.

• 1:04:32Billy Corgan?

  So then, okay, then explain this to me. What is it about business that attracts you when you certainly have enough success and wealth that if you just wanted to be an artist 24 hours a day, you could do that? What is it about business that that that it still attracts you?

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Great question. So, um, I don't, I feel, I don't feel like I'm doing a business. I'm still creating the art.

• 1:04:57Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so more like a.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Some business could be artistic as well.

• 1:05:04Billy Corgan?

  All business can, really, yeah.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Right, so how we are reinventing the culture or like,

• 1:05:11Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  you know, especially these days, like, you know, AI world. And then I have my own AI as well, AI Yoshiki. I'm inventing, I mean, so, you know, artistic way. So, I mean, I mean, there doesn't know right or wrong.

• 1:05:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 01

  You know, eventually people want to find out that was right, that was wrong.

• 1:05:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:05:37Billy Corgan?

  Have you noticed, at least I see some movement, that maybe in the last five to 10 years, more business people want to talk to artists because they want to understand the way they think and use that for business.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:05:51Billy Corgan?

  Because artists get used to having to kind of make stuff up and change direction. Where business oftentimes is like, here's the plan and we must, and I think maybe the world is getting so dynamic that business people are almost having to think more like artists now anyway. Do you see that?

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Completely. It's a lot of phenomena. They are like a more like a rock star state of mind, I think.

• 1:06:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, very disruptive. Yeah.

• 1:06:17Billy Corgan?

  Right, yeah, I'm glad that you put that. Do you, because your success is so unique, not just in Japanese culture, but also internationally, do you sometimes wonder like, why you were sort of put in this position? Because you're very unusual in the arts. You know what I mean? I think that's a fair thing to say.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for saying that. Um, I'm still, I'm very lost.

• 1:06:47Billy Corgan?

  Are you?

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, very lost. Um, it's, I can't figure it out. I'm very confident and fragile.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  I'm very secure and insecure.

• 1:07:01Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  There's a, yeah, it's just, I can't figure it out.

• 1:07:07Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  Hmm. So, yeah, so when I have certain goal, I'm very strong, no matter what, I'll get there. But I just like get depressed and cry and then I don't wanna see anyone. Then, then, once I go out, I became very social. When I come home.

• 1:07:30Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Because, just, I don't know.

• 1:07:32Billy Corgan?

  That's interesting.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  So I talk to psychiatrists sometimes and then my doctor can't figure it out either.

• 1:07:40Billy Corgan?

  Huh, that's interesting. Do you, do you have any spiritual perspective about it? Does it make sense the way I put it?

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  I just believe, um, somehow like, well, not believe, like, I just feel like doing good deed. Like, um, like, um, um, yeah, I do charity a lot. So when I help people, I just feel good, just like, okay, I'm okay to be existing in this world. So that's kind of like, um, so in general, um, I'm very positive. E- even though my mind goes dark sometimes, but positive and then try to do something good to the world.

• 1:08:28Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  In general, so.

• 1:08:30Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:08:34Billy Corgan?

  What, what musical dream is still there? Cause I know you have one. So what is, what is the thing that's still over the rainbow for you as a musical dream?

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  A lot. Um, I have a question about the music industry system as well. I wanna disrupt.

• 1:08:55Billy Corgan?

  Now there's a surprise.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Um, um, I like, you know, can I ask you a question? Like when you are going through that, the grunge, taking over that moment? What you are feeling like, uh, you, we wanna be the, wanna change everything or like?

• 1:09:14Billy Corgan?

  Well, I felt we, I, I felt collectively inspired that we were gonna change the world. And. I did an interview maybe around nineteen ninety eight, so not that long after the grunge peak. And they said, how do you view the time now? And I said, a failure.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:09:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Because Gen X, if we're just lumping the the the the people together, Gen X didn't accomplish everything that it could have accomplished.

• 1:09:47Billy Corgan?

  Kurt's suicide was part of that

• 1:09:51Billy Corgan?

  that loss. Like, we lost momentum.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:56Billy Corgan?

  A lot of fake bands came into the system.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:00Billy Corgan?

  That really didn't have the same values. It was just a commercial opportunity to now.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  I see.

• 1:10:07Billy Corgan?

  You know, they went from hair metal to grunge, and now it's the same, you know, so they sound like the bands, but they don't have the same heart.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  That's exactly what I was said, like, except has that in it, doesn't have to be the sound format, more mentality, right?

• 1:10:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  In my integrity of it like that.

• 1:10:25Billy Corgan?

  So once that was lost, that pure momentum was lost, it felt like, to me, failure.

• 1:10:33Billy Corgan?

  But I think now is the time in twenty twenty six and the time we're taping this, that I think Gen X is finally having like, almost like a comeback. So I feel like maybe there's one more opportunity for our generation to finish what we started thirty years later.

• 1:10:51Speaker 01

  So

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  so when you are top of the world, then they are there, they are upside upside down in between.

• 1:11:00Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  So you had a very hard time.

• 1:11:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, because because, you know, it goes back to Leonardo da Vinci. When you combine pure art and money, there's always going to be tension. And at some point, a corruption of the purity of the idea.

• 1:11:26Billy Corgan?

  The internet affords us the opportunity to reach the entire world without the compromise of the music business.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:35Billy Corgan?

  The music business on some level is terrified of this.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:39Billy Corgan?

  Because if you don't need the music business, if you and I can just make a song in a basement and the whole world will listen.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:48Billy Corgan?

  Well, you don't really need the music business.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:52Billy Corgan?

  So the music business is still not really sure. And already, the music business is hedging its bets with AI.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:59Billy Corgan?

  So instead of hedging its bets with human beings, it's hedging its bets with AI that somehow AI is gonna make them be safer in the market.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:09Billy Corgan?

  Gen X, I think, ultimately is about human capital.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:13Billy Corgan?

  The spirit of the human being.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:17Billy Corgan?

  So the most democratic music society in the world is we're all musicians. We all speak the same language, even if we don't speak the same tongue.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:31Billy Corgan?

  But I can listen to your music and you can listen to mine and we can understand the emotions and the culture and the world that we're coming from.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:39Billy Corgan?

  The ultimate promise of music is that everybody has the same opportunity.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:12:46Billy Corgan?

  And, and, but, you know, commercial interest is always gonna be like, what about us? So they have to try to control the message or they have to try to control the flow of the information.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:01Billy Corgan?

  So the ultimate fulfillment of the Gen X promise would be that that there's a balance there between human capital and business.

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:10Billy Corgan?

  Because business is not negative. We need people to create the systems by which we reach people, even if it's streaming services.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:18Billy Corgan?

  We still want to be in communion, but we want holistic communion. We want people to be able to make a living. We want people to have every opportunity to, to sing their song.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:28Billy Corgan?

  Am I, I mean, sort of answering what you were asking?

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Mm hmm. I mean, that, so that moment was like a, you know, CD.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  Now, when you peaked.

• 1:13:40Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? So the music business kind of went streaming to downloading to streaming.

• 1:13:47Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  Then now AI is coming to then.

• 1:13:51Billy Corgan?

  Destroy everything.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  Yes. So then you've been, you know, going through all those. So what's gonna be happen for the future from your perspective?

• 1:14:02Billy Corgan?

  I'll ask you first.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:14:04Billy Corgan?

  You're a guest on my show.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  That's right. I forgot.

• 1:14:08Billy Corgan?

  It's okay. So what's your prediction? If you have a general prediction?

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  General prediction?

• 1:14:14Billy Corgan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Um, AI is not gonna go anywhere. So, so I'm trying to figure out in a positive way to coexist. So there's a great side of AI. I personally, I don't use AI for creative process, more like a research, something like this as of now.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  But, um, like when the internet came, um, some people are just opposed to all those like, oh, a iPhone, or.

• 1:14:50Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:14:50Speaker 01

  So, um, AI is not gonna go anywhere. So, yeah, just trying to find the best way to coexist and then.

• 1:14:58Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:59Billy Corgan?

  I think that makes sense. I feel the same, uh, cause you asked me. I feel that AI is here, technology is here, young people are gonna use it because why wouldn't they? If they're 15 years old and they're living in a poor situation, they're gonna try to find everything that they can do to get their message and their music out. So if they have to use technology, they're gonna use it. No different than the, than the, the DJs in, in, in New York that were using scratch, scratching.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:35Billy Corgan?

  They used the technology that was available and they made music and no one can say it's not music. Right? So the question I think is, is, is there gonna be a sort of moral center to the argument about AI? Or is the music in the business gonna do what it usually does, which is sell the artists out? To maintain its position. I believe there's going to be sort of a rebellion. It's not going to be 100% of the people listening or 100% of the artists. But there's going to be enough artists, at least for the next 20 or 30 years. They're going to say, we still believe in organic music, we still believe in organic voices.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  Completely. I think so.

• 1:16:16Billy Corgan?

  I guess the question or the answer would be, what's the percentage going to be? Is it 5%, 10%, 15%, 25%?

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  I think

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  organic music should exist more than 50%.

• 1:16:31Billy Corgan?

  OK, great. If you're right, everything is fine. If I'm right, I think it's going to be more like 25, 30%. That's going to be very difficult.

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:41Billy Corgan?

  Because the consumer, the fan, will have to make a decision to support artists for being imperfect.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  I think it's exactly. So we are in a critical time. Like artists like us, or, you know, those artists need to create something amazing.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Basically, it's kind of sounds strange, but we are maybe competing against AI, but.

• 1:17:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  So exactly imperfect is is great. You know, also AIs or the large language model, they are basically the past information correcting the past.

• 1:17:22Billy Corgan?

  Ah, yes.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  So so that's our past. So we are, you know, present and future.

• 1:17:30Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  So artists can create. So our crazy, like a destructive mind, even. I think, I think we, I respect you as like, um, kind of we are kind of same artists, like, um.

• 1:17:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  Because, you know, Billy, you have been always constantly re-innovating the, you know, even had amazing success. They are still keep doing it. I really respect that. Then I'm also, you know, always reinventing.

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  That's that we have the future.

• 1:18:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  As an artist, like artists, like that there are also a lot amazing artists. We need to keep creating.

• 1:18:09Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 1:18:10Speaker 01

  Not like um looking at the past all the time.

• 1:18:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  So past is important, but future could be more interesting.

• 1:18:19Billy Corgan?

  So here's a here's a way to end, I think, because I think this will give people the image that I would want to leave them with. What's a what's a solo piano piece that you would love to play on stage? Just pick one.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Yes. Solo?

• 1:18:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, solo, just you.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Can I be with orchestra?

• 1:18:40Billy Corgan?

  Solo. No, there's a reason I'm saying this.

• 1:18:44Billy Corgan?

  Just pick one. It could be even your own composition.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  Okay. Um.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  Azovna. Um. Beethoven Münner Sonata.

• 1:18:57Billy Corgan?

  Okay, perfect, right? So you and I know that we could have a computer, play a real piano on stage, perfect, never miss a note, right? So we have to believe that people are still going to want to see you sit in a concert hall like Disney and play that piece. Because what you can do in the moment is something that a computer can never do. That's what people need to understand about AI. You have access to perfect. We literally could put a Yoshiki piano on the stage, press a button, and it would play it perfect. But people will travel all over the world to see you play it because they want to hear what you're going to do, not

• 1:19:42Billy Corgan?

  just to play it perfect, but play it in that moment.

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, also, when, you know, maybe you too, that's just when I perform, I resonate with the connected audience. So sometime.

• 1:19:56Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Sometimes I even stop. Let me redo it. Yeah, or like I had the show a few weeks ago in Tokyo, three nights, a Tokyo place called like seven thousand people, something like that, three nights. Then there's a one moment, I was like playing with orchestra. Then I was like, oh, my finger's not doing right. I started smashing the piano like that.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  It's like, is that, then people say, is that improvisational or something like you are angry? Or like, no, it's a combination of everything. So it's very, I'm very unpredictable. So, you know, um, when we had a show sometime, I was like, I told the members, one person, uh, the other members, we're gonna start speeding up, just then don't tell a guitar player. Just to just have fun, right? So sometimes I stopped and then left the stage and then, I don't know, what was that? Like, I just didn't feel right. Just, it was all those crazy thing.

• 1:21:02Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  It's, I think it's valuable. I'm not trying to justify what I, so I need to approach that a lot of stuff and, you know, people, I made a lot of drama in the past, but that's, um, rock and roll and then.

• 1:21:15Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Okay, last question, because I'm sure you've seen what they've done with ABBA in UK, with the ABBA virtual show. Kiss has signed a deal with the same people. Are we gonna see at some point ex-Japan virtual show? It must have crossed your mind.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  When we did reunion concert, um, um, decade ago, no, ten years ago, so, um, at Tokyo Dome, we did play three nights. I wanted to have Hidae and also we play Coachella. I brought bass player, Taiji and Hidae hologram. So, but there's combination of, you know, me and Toshi and, and a live, or a part, a live member and hologram. So that's a combination. But if it's entirely hologram, hmm, I don't know. I don't know if I. I don't know, but what do you think?

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  The entire member hologram smashing pumpkin?

• 1:22:23Billy Corgan?

  I'm not there yet, but I could see where I know I could see where it would happen.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Do I want to be happy? Are you going to be happy if you did the smashing pumpkins entire?

• 1:22:33Billy Corgan?

  I would, I would, I would be interested in it as an artistic idea.

• 1:22:39Billy Corgan?

  For example, uh, I'm fifty nine years old. So I understand, and we're very successful. We have very young audience. But still this young audience is seeing me not at twenty five, but fifty nine. I don't look like them. I don't act like them. I'm not them anymore. You know what I mean? I'm not in my twenties. There's something about young artists playing music, connecting with the young audience. That's always the most powerful. It was that way for the Beatles and the Stones. It's always the most powerful experience. Something about we're all coming to the same moment together.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  I still want to go see smashing pumpkins and that. Yeah, like a real, you know, I want to see you on the stage.

• 1:23:22Billy Corgan?

  Well, we're three quarters intact. So we have three of the original members. But my point is, is would it be intriguing to me or you to say, right? You can't go back in a time machine and see ex Japan nineteen ninety four. But what you can do is we can create an almost incredible, unique experience like a Disneyland ride. So it's the ultimate ex Japan from ninety four. And maybe it's the ultimate ex Japan from two thousand four. You know, you, you might be able to create a unique experience that's not trying to pretend. It isn't, it's the same. It's kind of what Gene Simmons talks about with what they're talking about with the people who are doing the Abba show,

• 1:24:05Billy Corgan?

  which is the idea they're going to create a new type of kiss experience. So it seems like your band might be perfect for that. To create a new type of concert experience that is obviously virtual. But at the same time, maybe you can experience something that you can't experience in reality. That's all.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, um, I don't hate it. Maybe I may love it, you know? So, yeah, I think I'm very open minded. So as long as like entertain people.

• 1:24:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I still care about.

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  The uh you know, people die, right? So if you make, because I also uh made your AI Yoshiki, AI Yoshiki will survive forever. So that's kind of like uh cool and lame.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Because the value of alive, uh because we are uh we only live certain amount of time. Yeah. That's the real kind of variable, that's kind of fascinating. So if we, if we live thousand years, um you know, it's not interesting. Yeah. So I I think like um, I'm not like fascinated by death or anything, but that's the the amount of time that's how, you know, same era we met like this and our audience. This is important to me. Yeah. So the, you know, then again, uh I'm making my own AI Yoshiki, so I'm not denying that what's happening, but challenge is how

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  we can make that more fascinating, more exciting than actual human being doing something crazy. I see. Thank you, Shi. Thank you.