The Revenant: The Man and the Bear Who Inspired the Movie

Mike does his darndest to pack the incredibly full life and times of Hugh Glass into one episode. From piracy, to mountaineering, and of course one of the most horrific and famous bear attacks, Hugh was never left wanting for adventure or danger. Watch here: The Revenant: The Man and the Bear Who Inspired the Movie ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Wes Larson?

  All of you Tooth and Claw listeners know I love a good story and that's why I want to tell you about What Was That Like? What does it feel like to get hit by a car while you're biking, or be attacked by an alligator, or learn that your spouse hired someone to kill you? If those are the kind of stories you find interesting, then What Was That Like is the podcast for you. What Was That Like is filled with real stories about the most surreal experiences of people's lives. On each episode, a guest comes on and tells about the time they found themselves in some kind of extreme situation. It could be an animal attack, hello, Tooth and Claw listeners, a plane crash, winning the showcase on The Price is Right, one of my personal dreams, and more. The show brings you tons of completely surreal, completely true stories, all told through the lens of the person who actually experienced it.

• 0:45Wes Larson?

  Check out some of these topics that I know will be especially interesting to you Tooth and Claw listeners. Episode 178, John was attacked by a tiger, a guy in Russia who was attacked by a tiger and only had a road flare to defend himself. Or episode 41, Lauren was attacked by a monkey, a primate specialist who was working with howler monkeys and ended up having a pretty crazy experience with one of them. So if you want to hear some unbelievable and inspiring firsthand stories, I invite you to check out What Was That Like? Every story is verified, so you know even the most bizarre tales are someone's reality. Listen to What Was That Like on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or the app you're using right now.

• 1:36Jeff Larson?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to a new episode of Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our wildlife biologist who has been compared to a cardboard box before, Wes Larson with us.

• 1:48Wes Larson?

  That's me. That's my personality.

• 1:50Jeff Larson?

  And then I'm his younger brother, Jeff Larson, and we got our best friend, Mike Smith.

• 1:57Mike Smith?

  Hey, we're all here. Listen, man, cardboard boxes are cool. They're so useful.

• 2:00Jeff Larson?

  Got a review. It's like a one star review that said, he's like a cardboard box that couldn't guide someone through Walmart.

• 2:08Wes Larson?

  It's funny, because when you make something like this, I do really think the cost of like putting yourself out there is you have to be open to getting some criticism. Like, not everyone's gonna love our show, but this was like a particularly mean review and kind of funny. Like, it made me laugh, but then also like, kind of hurt.

• 2:26Jeff Larson?

  It's always stings a little still.

• 2:28Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I'm gonna read it, because it was funny. Tooth and Claw is more opinion than fact. I've met Wes in the field and he had the personality of a cardboard box. I know he's trying to be a guide. I wouldn't let him guide me through a Walmart.

• 2:42Jeff Larson?

  Roasted. Oh, man.

• 2:44Wes Larson?

  I'm not trying to be a guide. I do a little guiding, but.

• 2:47Jeff Larson?

  Kinda try.

• 2:47Wes Larson?

  No, I like, I do some guiding. I don't have to try to do it. I do it. It's not what I want.

• 2:52Jeff Larson?

  Isn't that trying?

• 2:54Wes Larson?

  No, like, I am a guy. I'm not trying to be a guy.

• 2:56Jeff Larson?

  You're so good. You don't even need to try.

• 2:59Wes Larson?

  No, I'm not saying that. Like, I'm saying that there was a time when I was trying to be a guide.

• 3:04Jeff Larson?

  But now you're too good.

• 3:05Wes Larson?

  Now I'm a guide, but I do it as like a part-time side gig. It's not like, I want to be a guide for my, my full-time gig.

• 3:12Jeff Larson?

  If you guys love Wes, like we do, you know, maybe give us a good review and compare him to like your favorite cardboard box, like a puzzle box or something, or just any inanimate object.

• 3:25Wes Larson?

  Here's what I'm gonna say to that reviewer is, if you need a guide to help you get through Walmart, I'm not gonna trust your judgment on people.

• 3:32Jeff Larson?

  There's science.

• 3:33Wes Larson?

  Fair enough. Yeah. I was like racking my brain for who I could have met in the field that I left such a terrible impression on, because I always considered myself like a people person. And for a biologist, like fairly gregarious, because there are some really.

• 3:48Jeff Larson?

  Stuffy and.

• 3:49Wes Larson?

  You know, keep to themselves, like stuffy biologists out there. So I always was like, kind of prided myself on being a friendly biologist. But it's fine. You know, again, like I said, if you put yourself out there, some people aren't gonna like you, and that's okay.

• 4:03Jeff Larson?

  That's fine.

• 4:03Wes Larson?

  It is. But yeah, like Jeff said, if you like the show, give us a good five-star review and compare me to an inanimate object. I'd love to see what you. Guys want to compare me to.

• 4:11Mike Smith?

  Be great.

• 4:12Jeff Larson?

  We'll read like our favorite five in a future episode.

• 4:16Wes Larson?

  I like that. Cool. Anyway, uh, how are you guys doing?

• 4:20Jeff Larson?

  Dude, that's a big question.

• 4:22Mike Smith?

  Loaded question.

• 4:23Jeff Larson?

  Out in the world, you know?

• 4:25Wes Larson?

  You did. You did text me right before this and say, do not ask me how I'm doing today. So I'm sorry.

• 4:31Mike Smith?

  Jeff's trouble, man.

• 4:32Jeff Larson?

  You want me to start out with a lie?

• 4:34Wes Larson?

  No, it's cold here. It's like negative five.

• 4:37Jeff Larson?

  It is cold.

• 4:37Wes Larson?

  And I'm all bundled up in my shed.

• 4:40Mike Smith?

  You are. You got big old buttons on a, what is that?

• 4:43Wes Larson?

  This is like a wool sweater.

• 4:45Jeff Larson?

  Oh, it's just so you know, it's cold in like the entire United States.

• 4:49Wes Larson?

  I know.

• 4:49Jeff Larson?

  Besides Miami.

• 4:50Wes Larson?

  I know, but I do think when it gets really cold in the whole U S, Montana is usually one of the places that's the most cold.

• 4:57Jeff Larson?

  I was seeing in like Michigan, it was getting to negative 50.

• 5:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's really cold. West Yellowstone was negative 40 last night.

• 5:07Mike Smith?

  Woo, man.

• 5:08Wes Larson?

  But Missoula is only like negative five. It's not terrible.

• 5:10Jeff Larson?

  Do the bison like group up when it gets that cold?

• 5:12Wes Larson?

  They do. Sometimes they'll go stand over fumerals too, which are geothermal features that just shoot up hot steam.

• 5:19Mike Smith?

  Oh, that sounds nice.

• 5:19Wes Larson?

  But every once in a while they break through and then they get really scalded. So they gotta be careful.

• 5:24Mike Smith?

  That doesn't sound nice.

• 5:25Jeff Larson?

  Or I feel like when you walk away from that, you'd be all wet and get like all frozen.

• 5:30Wes Larson?

  You gotta stay there the whole winter is the problem.

• 5:33Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Wes Larson?

  If you do that, you can't leave.

• 5:35Mike Smith?

  Well, so much for global warming, huh?

• 5:37Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Mike, I, I would love to hear a story today though, about someone who is very cold.

• 5:44Jeff Larson?

  Done with like the global warming, Jeff.

• 5:48Wes Larson?

  No, um, not today either.

• 5:51Mike Smith?

  Not today.

• 5:52Wes Larson?

  No, not Tuesday or Monday, the January 20th.

• 5:55Mike Smith?

  Glad you're in the mood for a story about someone. Got a little chilly, Wes, cause I got the perfect tale to spin for you.

• 6:03Jeff Larson?

  There's no way he's as cold as Wes right now.

• 6:06Mike Smith?

  No way.

• 6:08Mike Smith?

  He really could have used your little wool button up my cozy warm shed with two space heaters.

• 6:14Wes Larson?

  That's nothing. He, yeah, Wes is saying it now.

• 6:17Jeff Larson?

  I'm doing a pre, pre story. That's nothing.

• 6:20Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So as Jeff is alluding to, I'm actually taking over. It's my turn once again to be the star of the show. It's about time. I think this is the second time I've led a main episode. I'm not sure, but forget that last, that last one was awful. This one, this is the one you want to turn into.

• 6:37Wes Larson?

  Micah so doesn't quite have the ring that Jeff so does.

• 6:41Mike Smith?

  Not quite as.

• 6:42Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 6:43Mike Smith?

  Solid of a slant rhyme. Well, I'm going to open this episode up by sharing something Professor John T. Coleman said, I don't know if you're familiar with him. He is a historian at the University of Notre Dame. He wrote a book called Here Lies Hugh Glass, A Mountain Man, A Bear, And The Rise Of The American Nation. Forgive me if I ever say Hugh Jazz, because that's just what I've been saying to myself, preparing this episode.

• 7:08Wes Larson?

  We'll just get it out of the way.

• 7:10Jeff Larson?

  Poor name.

• 7:11Mike Smith?

  It really is.

• 7:12Jeff Larson?

  Hugh Jazz.

• 7:14Mike Smith?

  But people are probably familiar with the story of Hugh Glass. I mean, it's been memorialized in many a movie, most recently in the movie The Revenant. And that's actually what this John Coleman guy who was talking about the movie The Revenant, and I'm going to paraphrase his thoughts here a little bit, but I thought this was an important place to start. So the life and the suffering of men like Glass were stories held on a pedestal, helping Americans define their nation as different and exceptional. The American exceptionalism that developed in the early days of the nation. They wanted the nation to sprout from the soil and to be ingrained in people. The reality, though, wasn't pleasant. People close to nature, working people, suffered.

• 7:55Mike Smith?

  The movie has some amazing historical moments, even if some of the story was make believe. But in a way, that's the most historical part. The Hugh Glass legend was part art from the beginning. And as is common with these stories that are hundreds of years old at this point, it's pretty hard to parse through them and determine exactly what is all the way true, what's completely fake and what's somewhere in between. So yeah, I'm going to do my best to find that middle ground.

• 8:22Jeff Larson?

  Just don't tell me he only had a medium sized ass.

• 8:26Mike Smith?

  Okay, he had a huge ass.

• 8:29Wes Larson?

  You have to like think too, at the time, all the stuff was being passed by word of mouth, telegram, newspapers, you know?

• 8:36Jeff Larson?

  Right.

• 8:37Wes Larson?

  For sure. It was like a big game of telephone.

• 8:40Jeff Larson?

  I mean, growing up, some kid told me that his mom's new van shot flames out of it. If you tried to open the door and I believed him. And it's like, I could double check that, you know? Like, back then, I'm sure if you just made shit up, it could get really far, like how much people would believe.

• 9:01Mike Smith?

  Here's the crazy thing. If people have seen The Revenant, I'm not, I'm gonna try my best to like not talk about the movie very much, even though it kind of turns out to be as just as valid a source of information as really anything else you can find. Like every article that I read, every bit of media that I consumed, movies and little like docu-series and stuff. Every single story is slightly or even massively different from one another. So I tried to corroborate and cross match different events that happened to Hugh. And I only, I'm including things that are almost certainly partly true, or at the very least, commonly understood to be the events of the day.

• 9:41Mike Smith?

  But before the events of the movie, the, the events of the attack, the thing that everyone knows and that Glass is famous for. Glass had already led a life that was pretty full of peril and adventure. I don't know if you guys are familiar with his early days, but it gets pretty insane. So I'm gonna cite my sources real quick. First is a book called The Revenant. It's the book the movie was based on. It's by a guy named Michael Punk. It's written kind of like historical fiction. It's not very dry. It's really entertaining read. But again, I don't know how verifiably accurate it is. And then there was another-

• 10:13Wes Larson?

  He lives in Missoula.

• 10:14Mike Smith?

  Oh, really? Have you met him?

• 10:15Wes Larson?

  I haven't, but I know he lives here.

• 10:17Mike Smith?

  Good writer. I like his, I like his style.

• 10:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 10:19Mike Smith?

  And the other thing I pulled pretty heavily from was an article called Hugh Glass, The Epic Tale by Richard Grant. Uh, you can find it kind of aggregated in different places on the internet, but I thought that was really good. This is a little bit of an antiquated term, but I found it on cowboysandindians.com, like the magazine. I know- Well, like, I'm probably gonna say Indian a couple of times. I know that's not the most appropriate term, but the parlance of the day kind of necessitates using that a little more freely than I otherwise would.

• 10:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's kind of like how on the Alligator episode, I said one of the brothers called the other brother the P word. And it's like, you know, we don't necessarily use that word, but they do.

• 10:58Jeff Larson?

  I used it.

• 10:59Mike Smith?

  Jeff uses it frequently.

• 11:02Jeff Larson?

  So Hugh Glass by Dick Grant?

• 11:05Mike Smith?

  Yep. Dick, I didn't even put that together. I'm so glad you're here for this, Jeff. I hope you stick around. So Hugh Glass's story begins when he was born in Pennsylvania, probably around the year seventeen eighty. So Birth of the Nation kind of years. And this is the era, I don't know, I guess Beethoven was kind of active during these years. So just think of Beethoven, you kind of have a good idea of what era we're dealing with here.

• 11:31Jeff Larson?

  I like that guy. I don't like his music. I just like him.

• 11:37Mike Smith?

  What about him do you like other than his music? He had some pretty cool hair if the if the paintings are to be believed.

• 11:44Jeff Larson?

  His name.

• 11:45Mike Smith?

  When he played that concert in the mall, in the San Dimas Mall. That's right. Oh, man. When he's playing on the keyboard in Bill and Ted and Joan of Arc is dancing. I I had the biggest crush on Joan. So.

• 11:57Wes Larson?

  And they're playing that song, uh, who sings that? Is it Extreme? I can't remember.

• 12:01Mike Smith?

  Was it? Yeah. Okay. But sometime in Hugh's youth, it's gonna be confusing. I'm gonna like swap between Hugh Glass and Hugh Glass. Just bear with me. But sometime in his youth, he decided that it'd be a good idea to head out to sea and make a name and a life for himself. And it actually turned out he was a pretty good sailor. He rose to the rank of captain pretty quickly and everything was going really great until, uh oh, he was captured by famed, close. He was captured by famed Louisiana buccaneer John Lafitte. And he was given an option, either surrender and live life as a pirate under Jean Lafitte, or be put to death. Which one? Which option do you think he picked?

• 12:40Wes Larson?

  I'd be a pirate, you know?

• 12:42Mike Smith?

  Yeah, yeah. Two, one point for each of you for guessing right there. So he chose piracy and began sailing as part of Lafitte's crew. Some of the stories that were passed around say that he actually committed to the role of a pirate and did some pretty unspeakable and terrible things. But mostly he was known as a kind of strange, but ultimately trustworthy and honorable man. One of his crewmates actually described him as being, quote, bold, daring, reckless, and eccentric to a high degree. His bravery conspicuous beyond all his other qualities, which really sounds to me like someone trying to put a positive spin on somebody like-

• 13:19Jeff Larson?

  On a pirate.

• 13:20Mike Smith?

  This dude was insane, which I guess you could like, kind of call brave, I guess, but he was just kind of throwing caution to the wind, it sounded like, as a pirate. Cause he didn't sign up for this. He was kind of like, what am I even doing here? You know? And that can go one of two ways. You can either like, quiet quit and just like, be a really unmotivated pirate, or just be like, you know what? I'm here, let's live it up.

• 13:39Jeff Larson?

  I'm all in.

• 13:40Mike Smith?

  Yeah. But in 1818, about two years after he was first captured, when their ship was about a mile or two away from the Texas shore, Glass and a shipmate saw a chance to escape the old skull and bones lifestyle, and they hopped off into the sea and swam all the way from their ship into Galveston Island, or what would eventually become Galveston Island. It wasn't that way just yet. Now, we've all heard stories about cowboys and Indians, cowboys and Native Americans. They just, what, Jeff? They didn't get along, right? They did not like each other.

• 14:08Jeff Larson?

  Well, sometimes.

• 14:09Mike Smith?

  Sometimes?

• 14:10Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Mike Smith?

  Yeah, when it was like mutually beneficial.

• 14:13Jeff Larson?

  Sometimes they would like, kind of get along and then not get along still after.

• 14:18Mike Smith?

  Have you ever heard about pirates and Indians?

• 14:20Jeff Larson?

  Have you heard of aliens and cowboys and aliens?

• 14:23Mike Smith?

  I have heard of that, yeah. An underwhelming movie. Really, it just had such a slam dunk setup. How did you make that boring? I don't know.

• 14:31Jeff Larson?

  They really did. And Harrison Ford was in it, and they still ruined it.

• 14:35Mike Smith?

  Yeah. I'm just gonna say, it's a little bit of unexplored territory. Pirates and their relationships with Native Americans, First Nations people. I think there's a lot of meat on that bone that you want.

• 14:46Jeff Larson?

  So you set us, you set us up for that, but there's actually nothing to talk about?

• 14:50Mike Smith?

  No.

• 14:51Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 14:52Mike Smith?

  Well, we could talk about it now if you want, Wes.

• 14:54Jeff Larson?

  No, it's all right.

• 14:55Mike Smith?

  All right.

• 14:56Jeff Larson?

  It's fine.

• 14:56Mike Smith?

  It turns out- These pirates and these Native Americans, they weren't on super friendly terms either. So Glass and his friend carefully navigated their way north while trying to evade any contact with the native population who they knew just weren't not going to treat them very well if were they to be caught. Rightfully so. And for a while, it was working until eventually they were captured by some members of the Pawnee tribe who were decidedly not happy to see the two of them. This episode is brought to you by Beam. For my whole life, I've had a really hard time falling asleep. I have to have the perfect room temperature, the perfect bedding, the perfect white noise. Everything just has to be perfect. But you know what's made it so much easier for me is Beam.

• 15:37Mike Smith?

  Beam's Dream Powder is made with clean, natural ingredients like reishi, magnesium, L-theanine, apigenin, and melatonin, formulated to help you fall asleep fast, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed. Try it and see why Dream by Beam has improved over 30 million nights of sleep for people across the country. And yeah, Beam does help me fall asleep easier, deeper, and better. But you know what's even nicer than that is drinking it in the first place. It's delicious. It's like a nice hot cup of cocoa right before you go to sleep. I just can't think of anything better, especially as winter's coming. And it's less than 20 calories per serving. So go to shopbeam.com/tooth, use code TOOTH, and get 50% off during Beam's cyber sale, only available while flavors are in stock.

• 16:22Mike Smith?

  With this incredible discount, that means you'll pay just 83 cents per night for the best sleep of your life. So seriously, think about it. How much would you pay for a truly great night of sleep? Beam is just 83 cents per night. So go to shopbeam.com/tooth now. That's shopbeam.com/tooth. This episode is brought to you by Quince. So, new year, start making some changes in life. And I always find it a nice change of speed to add to my wardrobe a little bit, you know? Get some nice cozy sweaters for the cold months that still lie ahead. And honestly, I've been getting really tired of hearing Wes talk about this cashmere sweater. Like every time he does an ad read, he makes it sound so nice and I was like, fine, I'll get one.

• 17:07Mike Smith?

  So I did. It's only like $60, $65, I think it was. And I just got it in a couple of days ago, and I've been wearing it nonstop. I like wear it. I know I probably shouldn't, but I wear it to bed. I wear it everywhere I go. It's just like the most comfy.

• 17:22Wes Larson?

  I told you, dude.

• 17:23Mike Smith?

  Man, it's amazing. Also, if you're more into like workout gear, that kind of speed, there's plenty of options there. There's a lot of casual fits, some cool accessories, some beanies. Wes has talked a lot about how cool those are. I haven't gotten my hands on one of those just yet, but they do look nice. And if they're even half as comfortable as this sweater, I'm gonna need one. So whatever you're looking for, Quince has got you as far as clothing is concerned.

• 17:45Wes Larson?

  We're headed to the Himalayas soon, and I ordered a couple hearty sweaters from them just because I knew it was gonna be really soft and comfortable while we're in really cold temps of the Himalayas.

• 17:55Jeff Larson?

  It's gonna be cold out there?

• 17:56Wes Larson?

  It's gonna be cold.

• 17:57Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I'm gonna have to order some stuff.

• 17:59Mike Smith?

  They use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel. Every single piece they make's got it. So worry not, Jeff. Everything you get, it's gonna be money. Upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag. Go to quince.com/tooth for 365-day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/tooth to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/tooth. So the story goes of this encounter that Hugh had with the Pawnee tribe who captured him and his friend. They took his friend, they hung him upside down, and they jabbed little pitch pine needles

• 18:41Mike Smith?

  over every inch of his body, which doesn't sound that bad, right? Not yet.

• 18:45Jeff Larson?

  People pay money for that.

• 18:47Mike Smith?

  Right? It's like acupuncture, kinda, right?

• 18:49Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 18:50Mike Smith?

  Plus, hanging upside down, you like kinda decompress your spine a little bit. Did you guys ever see the commercial of that old guy like flipping around on that table? He did like a little hop afterward to share how much his spine felt better after like being hanging upside down?

• 19:03Wes Larson?

  No.

• 19:05Mike Smith?

  Oh, man, we should share that on Instagram.

• 19:07Jeff Larson?

  Danielle with National Park After Dark, she does acupuncture where they like electroshock the needles.

• 19:14Mike Smith?

  Really?

• 19:15Jeff Larson?

  That's it.

• 19:15Mike Smith?

  Whoa.

• 19:16Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Mike Smith?

  That's next level.

• 19:17Wes Larson?

  I remember when I did acupuncture and I had something in my back that was wrong. And he's like, let me see your right hand and like poked me above my thumb. And I'm just like, no, I said, it's my back. It's really weird. It's a weird practice.

• 19:29Jeff Larson?

  I know. Fine line between acupuncture and torture.

• 19:33Mike Smith?

  Does acupuncture work? I have no idea.

• 19:35Wes Larson?

  It worked for me.

• 19:36Mike Smith?

  Is it? Okay, cool. That's good to know. Well, anyway, so not so bad. Hanging upside down has all these pine needles in him, right? Well, they also set him on fire. So it's a lot, get a little worse for this guy.

• 19:48Wes Larson?

  We've.

• 19:48Mike Smith?

  He's traveling with.

• 19:50Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, that's what my acupuncturist does.

• 19:52Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Danielle starts lighting the needles on fire. So knowing that he was probably up next for this line of two in execution. Hugh pulled out a sack of powdered Cinnabar. I don't know if you know what Cinnabar is. It's kind of like a reddish dye, a mixture that a lot of Native Americans used in dye for war paint. And it was really highly valued because it was a pretty rare mineral to come across. And Hugh somehow had a pack of this stuff just in his pocket.

• 20:22Jeff Larson?

  And waited till his partner died.

• 20:25Mike Smith?

  Right. It's like his friend's on fire, just like, dude, what? Would have been useful 30 seconds ago to have that. But apparently he stole this sack of Cinnabar from the ship before like leaping off. I don't know. This seems like one of those apocryphal moments where it's like, so he swam with a powder through the ocean and he just like had, I don't know. A pretty common element to the story everywhere I looked. So I decided to include it. I just thought it was kind of funny that he had this big powder sack. The chief was like, oh, man, that's actually like pretty sweet. He took it. He liked the gift and he actually accepted Glass into his Pawnee tribe for the next four years where he lived, just kind of learning from them about how best to survive off the

• 21:08Mike Smith?

  land, which you know, anything about Hugh Glass, those skills will probably become pretty valuable in the near future for him. So four years later, Glass figured it was time for a change. He had lived amongst this tribe. Some accounts even say that he took a wife. Who knows? Maybe I think that was more common than maybe you would believe back in the day, but there's no real proof of that happening.

• 21:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I know. That's like a weird way to put it.

• 21:34Wes Larson?

  Do know that was quite common.

• 21:36Mike Smith?

  Yeah. That's just like the antiquated parlance of the day, but um yeah. Glass, he was like, you know, it was fun, had a good time here, learned a lot, but it's time to go make some money. And he knew that there was a lot of money.

• 21:49Jeff Larson?

  Dude, that's me.

• 21:51Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 21:52Jeff Larson?

  I had some fun time to get my money now.

• 21:55Mike Smith?

  You're gonna quit the podcast and go be a fur trapper?

• 21:58Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna start, yeah, Trump coin 2.0.

• 22:01Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's a good idea.

• 22:03Jeff Larson?

  Hot coin.

• 22:04Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So he knew that there was a ton of money to be made in the fur trading business. So he signed up as a hunter and a trapper with the Ashley Henry Company, which was about to head out to Montana to do some beaver hunting, because you know, those beaver caps, they're flying off the shelves back in the day.

• 22:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 22:20Mike Smith?

  You don't see a lot of those these days. I've noticed.

• 22:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think that's pretty much gone.

• 22:25Mike Smith?

  Yep. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen one.

• 22:28Jeff Larson?

  Was it mainly for hats?

• 22:31Mike Smith?

  I think, well, so the the fashion of the day, especially in Europe, Europeans just like loved these hats. So they just go out.

• 22:38Jeff Larson?

  Beaver hat.

• 22:39Mike Smith?

  A beaver hat. Yeah, but I'm sure there's.

• 22:41Jeff Larson?

  The tail?

• 22:43Mike Smith?

  Yeah, they do the the flap down. I'm not sure. That's what I saw.

• 22:47Jeff Larson?

  Safari flap.

• 22:48Wes Larson?

  Yeah, maybe though. I know that like, I mean, when you think about it, they have really dense fur that's like, you know, hydrophobic.

• 22:56Jeff Larson?

  The guy at this store said I'm the only one that can pull it off.

• 23:01Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 23:03Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Oh, imagine like there's a beaver hat trader and he started like putting logos of your favorite stick ball player of the day or whatever on the front. That'd be so innovative. Oh, man, probably no one was doing that. But so beaver beaver leather and beaver pelts were actually really valued because they were easy to form to the shape of the head. But like, once they set, they were really tough and they didn't like move very much. So it was a custom fit to your head that you could rely would stay and keep its shape, which I thought is kind of an interesting detail about specifically beaver pelts or maybe, I don't know. I don't know if more animal leather and fur isn't as thick and hardy as beaver pelts are,

• 23:45Mike Smith?

  but that was the the thinking of the day and why they were so popular. So Glass's expedition with this new company began with a 1,500 mile journey up the Missouri River. When they got to the South Dakota Territory sometime in late August, maybe early September, they traded with the Aricara, Aricara tribe. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. They, a lot of times they're just referred to as the ree. So maybe I'll just say that. The ree tribe who acted all nice during the exchange, but they had a sneaky little maneuver up their sleeve. So, once the deal was done, they just like attacked the company and take back everything they traded, which if that was, if that trick was in Donald Trump's art of the deal, I wouldn't be surprised. Like, that's a good move, you know?

• 24:29Wes Larson?

  Well, it's kind of like banning TikTok and then, you know, opening it back up as soon as your president.

• 24:36Mike Smith?

  Sneaky move.

• 24:37Wes Larson?

  Same thing. Yeah.

• 24:38Jeff Larson?

  Well, it ended up being a bad move because that justified us, like giving them a bunch of land and then taking it right back.

• 24:47Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 24:48Wes Larson?

  I don't think it justified it, but I think it's a tough, tough one to say. I think that's a

• 24:53Mike Smith?

  I mean, like, if we're being objective, it's like kind of a dick move to do, but then again, colonialism's like not that cool of a thing to have done to them either. So it's like, we're sort of giving a take here.

• 25:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. They probably were pretty justified.

• 25:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I think they get a carte blanche when it comes to things they did to us as we were expanding. Yeah.

• 25:15Mike Smith?

  So all in all, after this attack, after the trade happened, 12 of the trappers were killed. Glass made it through relatively unscathed. I say relatively, he took a bullet to the leg, but he was alive still. So all in all, he was doing okay compared to the 12 who were killed.

• 25:30Wes Larson?

  That sounds pretty scathed to me.

• 25:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Yeah, right. I mean, death is the ultimate scathe, right?

• 25:37Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 25:38Mike Smith?

  Or how would you, I don't know if I'm saying that.

• 25:39Wes Larson?

  I'm pretty sure though, if I took a bullet to the leg at any point in my life, I'm gonna, like, that's a pretty life altering injury that I'm gonna tell people about.

• 25:48Mike Smith?

  But you're not, you're not like a mountain man though.

• 25:50Wes Larson?

  I'm not Hugh Glass. I'm not.

• 25:52Mike Smith?

  These guys, they take bullets to the leg, like, daily.

• 25:54Wes Larson?

  It's not there for that.

• 25:55Jeff Larson?

  I think though Wes's point is pretty good, that like, you don't leave that saying like, yeah, I came out unscathed. And then you're like, oh wait, never mind, I did get shot.

• 26:06Mike Smith?

  Well, shot in my leg. Yeah.

• 26:10Jeff Larson?

  But no, keep going, Si.

• 26:12Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I thought I qualified it. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job, but the survivors regrouped and they sat out on foot toward a trading fort located 300 miles away from where they were, which again is modern day South Dakota. But they knew they needed to restock, especially on food if they wanted to get anywhere after this attack happened. So on a particularly tense night, three days later, there are some grumbling amongst the men. They're still scared, I'm sure, and like kind of licking their wounds. Captain Henry assigned Hugh and another man named Black Harris to go out on a hunt the next day. They figured they were gonna have to risk a fire and the sound of a gunshot, both of which could alert any nearby parties of the Re tribe or any others who would have no qualms about locating them, identifying them as an enemy and killing them, taking

• 26:57Mike Smith?

  all their stuff. So that night, Glass got to preparing and caring for his rifle. And this is a big element to the story. So for the most part, Glass didn't have a whole lot of fine goods to his name, but his one prized possession was his genuine, German-made Anstadt flintlock rifle. And you know, Jeff, resident gun guy, you got a gun like that, you're like, you're caring for it, you're polishing it, you're rubbing it all night, you know, like going in the ring.

• 27:25Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, you could take out a whole army of Emus with that, dude.

• 27:31Mike Smith?

  You would think. I think that joke's gonna make sense by the time this episode goes up, but maybe not.

• 27:38Jeff Larson?

  To our subscribers, it will.

• 27:39Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So, the next day, he and Harris split up, Black Harris, the other guy that was sent out on the hunt, they split up and set out. About three hours before sunset, he spotted some deer tracks by the bank of the river that led into some willows. So he followed them as silently as he could into the trees. Before long, he came upon a clearing, and he did just so happen to see some wildlife. Unfortunately for him, it was not quite the kind he was hoping to see. And Wes, Talking about the grizzly bear population in the early 1800s, how likely or unlikely would it be for a man to stumble across a bear in the woods compared to today?

• 28:20Wes Larson?

  Pretty likely, especially like in this part of the world now, you're, you're not going to really find him. I, he's kind of like in eastern Montana at this point, right?

• 28:29Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 28:29Wes Larson?

  They didn't, they used to be a plains animal. Grizzly bears used to exist out on the plains and these little pockets of forest out on the plains too, which, um, he's probably in an area like that where there's lots of open expanses, but then also some wooded areas. And yeah, I mean, you would stumble on them and like Lewis and Clark talked about them quite a bit in their expedition. As soon as they got into the great plains, they started running into grizzly bears and, and they were very, they made a big impression on them.

• 28:57Jeff Larson?

  Well, yeah, because we've definitely conditioned grizzly bears too, to like know that humans are bad to attack. Like over two centuries where, you know, we take out aggressive bears, we like relocate problematic bears. So like bears kind of know right now, like don't mess with humans for the most part, but back then they're like, what's this?

• 29:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And we had, we pushed them into the forest now. And back then they just were, they were a different animal. So.

• 29:25Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So Hugh stepped out into this clearing and was surprised to see two bear cubs, who were probably around five or six months old at this point, if that math works out, is that kind of at like in September around?

• 29:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Jeff Larson?

  So he's fine because.

• 29:40Mike Smith?

  Yeah, they're just little guys. He's like, oh, that's fun. And it was, it's actually kind of a funny account that I think Hugh gave of this event himself and that was passed around. So who knows again, but.

• 29:51Wes Larson?

  They'd be a little older. They'd be like eight or nine months.

• 29:53Mike Smith?

  Eight or nine months old.

• 29:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Mike Smith?

  But they came tumbling kind of playfully towards Hugh. And for a moment he stood just kind of nonplussed at the scene. He was like, that's unexpected, but okay, weird. The danger of this situation hadn't quite clicked in his brain yet though. And that would change in an instant. A low growl from across the clearing stopped the two cubs in their tracks. And the heavy steps of the mother bear cracking through the underbrush told him that suddenly, things had just taken a serious turn for the worse for him. Her growl dissipated into the forest as she was stepping into the clearing, now only about 100 feet away. Her massive muscular body sat low to the ground, tense, ready to launch at him at any moment.

• 30:34Wes Larson?

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• 31:19Wes Larson?

  And those are people that are living through Wyoming winters, so they really know warm. The Hometown Down Jacket is 800 fill down, but it feels more like your favorite hoodie than it does a puffy. And for me, I am really excited about the Men's Furnos Max Insulated Jacket. I'm constantly looking for a jacket that just ticks all the boxes, and this one really does. It's stretchy, it's breathable, it looks great, it keeps me super warm. It's just amazing. I just absolutely love this jacket. So ski season's almost here. Gear up now the way that the locals do. Go to stio.com/tooth for 20% off your order. That's S-T-I-O dot com slash tooth. Stio.com slash tooth. Stio, designed and tested in Jackson Hole.

• 32:05Wes Larson?

  So the start of the new year is really the perfect time to get organized. I always feel really energized about organizing everything this time of the year. And a big thing for me is organizing my finances. I think it's more important than ever that people experience as much financial wellness as possible. And thanks to Rocket Money, my goals feel really achievable this year. They show me all of my subscriptions right in one place. They help me easily cancel ones that I forgot about. Rocket Money pulls Together all of my spending across all of my different accounts. And I do think I have a problem that a lot of people have these days. Where you kind of have different cards, you have different ways that you spend money. And it can be really hard to keep track of all that.

• 32:47Wes Larson?

  Like I forget about one of my cards all the time, but Rocket Money advises me when it's time to pay off that card. I try to pay them all off every month, so I don't have to pay high interest fees. Rocket Money does a really good job of warning me when I need to do that. So I've really enjoyed it. It's really helped me become more organized. It's a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Recently, I noticed they're even giving me recommendations on my mortgage. So I can like potentially find a better interest rate or whatever. So Rocket Money, yeah, it's an impressive tool and it really does a lot. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions,

• 33:32Wes Larson?

  saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. You can cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com/claw today. That's rocketmoney.com/claw. Rocketmoney.com/claw.

• 33:54Mike Smith?

  Okay, so we touched on this briefly already, but I want to go over some quick history about bears in the United States during this time. And this is from the University of Montana. You guys, you guys are familiar with that place. They have a website. I'm not sure if you guys were aware.

• 34:07Jeff Larson?

  They got a website now, huh?

• 34:09Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 34:10Jeff Larson?

  Catching up to the world.

• 34:11Mike Smith?

  Yeah, has some pretty good information there, it turns out. So when Lewis and Clark, you brought these guys up, Wes, they were charting out the West in the early 1800s, around the same time this Hugh Glass thing was going down. There were an estimated 50,000 grizzly bears roaming the range stretching from the Pacific to the central plains. That's the lower 48. So 50,000 grizzly bears. Louis, in his journal, he actually compared grizzly bears to black bears, just having observed both. And he said, quote, "It is a much more furious and formidable animal," talking about the grizzly bear compared to the black, "and will frequently pursue the hunter when wounded. It is astonishing to see the wounds they will bear before they can be put to death."

• 34:53Mike Smith?

  He mentioned one that had five balls shot through its lungs and five others in various parts before it finally died. And I know guns weren't quite what they are now.

• 35:01Wes Larson?

  That's what I was gonna say. We talk about how modern guns aren't really a great tool against a grizzly bear because you need a really direct hit in a kill zone. These old guns that are just shooting lead balls at a bear.

• 35:15Jeff Larson?

  And bullets. Yeah, it's just like a circle.

• 35:17Wes Larson?

  That's what I'm saying. It's not gonna stop a charging grizzly bear. Like, they're gonna keep coming. You're gonna have to put a lot of lead balls in the right spot to bring down a grizzly bear.

• 35:27Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, you'd be probably better with like a samurai sword type of.

• 35:31Mike Smith?

  I would say so. That's just my personal opinion, though.

• 35:34Wes Larson?

  I would disagree with that, heartily.

• 35:37Mike Smith?

  The thing is too, like, these guns, you would shoot and then you'd take like 45 minutes to reload it. And it's like, alright, now let's like shoot this bear again. Okay. Two bullets doesn't take you down. Let's do it again. It's like 10 bullets later, you're just like, what is going on? What? Is this just like an unstoppable god? He also, Louis, in his journal again, he wrote later, "These bears being so hard to die rather intimidates us all," which I thought was just like classic literary understatement. Just like, yeah, I'm sure that is kinda intimidating.

• 36:10Wes Larson?

  We find them quite intimidating.

• 36:13Mike Smith?

  Yeah. It's like when Jeffrey Dahmer told his dad, "I think I really messed up this time, Dad." It's like, you think?

• 36:23Mike Smith?

  Okay, so I found some more information on the National Park Service website. Also, they have a website, pretty nifty little place to go if you're looking for some good info. So, the grizzly bear was formally classified as a species by naturalist George Ord in 1815. I should have quizzed you on that, Wes. You probably would have been able to guess that.

• 36:42Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 36:43Mike Smith?

  But it was not for its hair being grizzled that it was called grizzly bear, but more for its character. Again, these things were just scary and intimidating and not used to humans, not scared of humans really in the same way as they are now, like Jeff was talking about. A grizzly bear is known as Ursus arctos, but Ord classified it as Ursus...

• 37:02Wes Larson?

  Arctos horibilis.

• 37:03Mike Smith?

  Horibilis, meaning terrifying bear, and its reputation for being violent and dangerous started to spread to settlers who were coming out west, like with the gold rush and stuff. California, we know they have the bear on their flag. There were once tons of bears there, but settlers, they're like, "We've got these cows and all this livestock and these prey items for these bears to go after, so we need to get rid of them." So they just started killing them indiscriminately, shooting them, doing whatever they could.

• 37:28Jeff Larson?

  It would be crazy too to like live in Philadelphia or New York City at that time. And like you're thinking about going out west, but it's just like, yeah, there's these huge monsters that will immediately try to kill you if they see you.

• 37:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah. You see that black bear? That's nothing. No, like you just said, there's 50,000 of these bears in, you know, what's now known as like the Lower 48. Isn't that what you said?

• 37:54Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 37:54Wes Larson?

  Uh, that's, that's currently about what the population is throughout North America. So throughout Canada, Alaska, all of those places that have a lot of habitat. So that's a, that's a high number of bears in a relatively small area.

• 38:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah. I think what the population I saw now in the Lower 48, it's like 1,500 maybe? 2,000?

• 38:15Wes Larson?

  More than that. I would, I would guess probably like 2,500 bears in all of the Lower 48.

• 38:19Mike Smith?

  Making a bit of a bounce back, but like nothing compared to where they were previously.

• 38:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Are they, what are they, threatened? Is that what they are on the?

• 38:29Wes Larson?

  Currently, but that's the whole thing that's, right now, they're talking about delisting them. They, they just had a decision the other day to keep them, but with the new administration, they'll probably be delisted in the next few years.

• 38:40Mike Smith?

  Hmm. But we got TikTok back.

• 38:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 38:43Mike Smith?

  So it's like a give and a take, you know? Okay, so back to the story. Hugh and the bear were having a bit of a standoff. They were on opposite sides of this clearing, kind of looking at each other, monitoring the situation, each deciding what their next move was gonna be. Hugh briefly considered running back to the river, but knew that the bear was way too close and it would close that distance long before he could breach the, any kind of protection that the water would bring to him. So he was like, no, river's out. His next thought was maybe there's a tree nearby that he could climb up, maybe get a good vantage point and start shooting from on high. Because grizzly bears, they do climb trees, but they're not quite so good at as black bears.

• 39:23Wes Larson?

  It's a good, it's a good tactic if you don't have anything else.

• 39:26Mike Smith?

  Yeah, and Glass truly had nothing else. And he didn't even have a tree, it turns out. He looked around him and any tree that was even like reasonably close that he thought maybe he could get to before this bear comes down on him, they're all too small to really be worth even trying to climb and hide in or find protection in. So his options quickly evaporated until he was only left with one. He raised his 54 caliber rifle right as the grizzly bear began her charge. Every instinct in his body once again told him to run or to shoot immediately, but he knew with how fast she was closing the distance, he would really only have time for one shot and he had to make that shot count. When the bear was about 20 feet away, she raised up on her hind legs, preparing to bring her full weight down on him. With her heart now at about his eye level,

• 40:10Mike Smith?

  Hugh pulled the trigger and shot her directly in the chest. The bullet struck true, but did little to slow the momentum of the now enraged bear. With one swipe of her six inch claws, Hugh felt her rip through the flesh on his shoulder and throat like tissue paper. He was thrown backward, dropping the knife he had pulled out just before the bear made contact and he instinctively started pushing his boots against the dirt back towards the safety of the willows behind him. But that was not gonna serve any kind of protection or service to him. The bear wasn't done with him just yet. She stood over him on all fours and so he curled up in a ball to try and protect his face and chest. If it's brown, what, Wes?

• 40:47Wes Larson?

  That poem. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. Although in this, in this situation, yeah, like

• 40:54Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's all, it's all he could do was like, he had no knife, no gun, this bear was standing over him. He just had to protect his vitals.

• 41:02Wes Larson?

  He's done the worst thing you can do, which is injure a bear and then, but not kill it, you know? It's, this is a very bad situation at this point. And I do just really like a quick little aside. You saying this, I'd never heard this detail, the story before that 20 feet away, she stood. That was probably a bluff charge just from my like experience, like

• 41:22Mike Smith?

  Interesting.

• 41:23Wes Larson?

  That's what they often do when they do a bluff charge is they'll run in and stand and kind of look as intimidating as possible and then run off. It's hard to, like, I can't say that for sure.

• 41:32Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Wes Larson?

  But that behavior does sound like maybe she was about to run off. But him firing and hitting her might have changed her mind.

• 41:40Mike Smith?

  Wow, that would really suck. Cause if you know how this story goes, that would have been real nice for that bear to just leave him alone.

• 41:48Wes Larson?

  Which could have happened for sure.

• 41:50Mike Smith?

  Hey, anyway, he felt her teeth sink into the back of his neck now, lifting him up off the ground. She shook him so violently and so easily that he felt like his spine was gonna snap in half. She quickly adjusted her jaws and bit down again, straight through his shoulder blade, teeth making contact with bone. All while raking his back with her claws. So scalp back, everything's just getting shredded while her teeth are just like munching down into his shoulder blade. He started screaming and maybe that was enough to startle her to make her drop him down onto the ground. But she quickly readjusted and bit down again, this time deeply into his thigh. She lifted him one last time before slamming him back down onto the ground with so much force that he lay completely stunned, unable to move or make a sound.

• 42:35Mike Smith?

  The last thing he saw before his world went dark was the bear back up on her hind legs, letting out one final terrifying roar. And then he drifted completely out of consciousness as he felt an immense weight collapse down on top of him. So remember Black Harris, his little hunting partner who was off a ways? He had already begun walking towards the scene when he heard the first gunshot and he started jogging when he heard the bears roar. But when he heard Glass's scream, he stopped. He was like, okay, something real, real bad.

• 43:05Jeff Larson?

  Let's think about this.

• 43:06Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So he slowed down. He was like, okay, let's evaluate what's going on. But he knew Glass, he was in trouble, probably needed some help. So he did the brave thing. He carefully made his way into the clearing and was just completely stunned by what he saw. A massive bear laid dead on the ground, her two cubs restlessly moving around her. One was biting and tugging at something that was laying underneath the mother. And when Harris recognized it as a human arm, he raised his rifle and shot the cub, killing it. As he ran up to help push this bear off of Glass, who he thought was probably dead at this point, the other cub ran off. And with its own story to tell, you can imagine, probably.

• 43:44Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Wes Larson?

  Got revenge on someone.

• 43:46Mike Smith?

  Right. So the other men in the company, they were a bit farther away than even Harris was at that point. But they thought it was strange that they had heard two gunshots at this point, but they were spaced so far apart that they're like, that's weird. They're not shooting at the same target, probably. So something is amiss here. So they all grouped up and started off towards all the noise. When they reached the clearing, Captain Henry quickly took stock of the situation. Glass was still alive, but badly wounded, most pressing of which was a slashed windpipe. You'll remember the bear ripped through Glass's neck and actually punctured his windpipe. So he was like gurgling on the ground, literally breathing out of the side of his neck.

• 44:27Wes Larson?

  Relatively unscathed.

• 44:28Mike Smith?

  Relatively, yeah. Now a bullet to the leg doesn't sound so bad, huh, guys? Relative. It's all relative. So the captain poured the contents of his canteen out to clean the wound, which brought Glass to for a moment. He sputtered, struggling to breathe and then threw up, which probably like really hurt, considering like his throat was just completely ripped open moments before. They did their best to dress the wounds and he lost consciousness again. Hiram Allen, another man from the company, he was at the scene and he later wrote that, quote, "The monster had torn the flesh from the lower part of the body and from the lower limbs. He also had his neck shockingly torn, even to the degree that an aperture appeared to have been made in the windpipe and his breath to exude at the side of the neck."

• 45:13Wes Larson?

  Beautifully written.

• 45:15Mike Smith?

  Yeah, very eloquently put. And they're like, understandably, you see this scene, this guy is breathing out of his neck and it's like, oh, this guy's dead. He's got maybe hours and he's gone. They transported him back to their central campsite and they're like, well, let's take care of him. Sorry Glass, you were a fine, fine man, but you've reached the end of your road, right?

• 45:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Mike Smith?

  Few hours tops.

• 45:37Wes Larson?

  Wrong.

• 45:38Mike Smith?

  Wrong.

• 45:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Mike Smith?

  The next morning rolled around and, well, you think, what do you think Gold Glass was doing?

• 45:44Wes Larson?

  He's, he's surviving.

• 45:45Mike Smith?

  Still breathing, still just.

• 45:47Wes Larson?

  Probably a lot of wheezing, I would guess.

• 45:49Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Mike Smith?

  Just gurgly, bloody wheezing.

• 45:53Wes Larson?

  Like when you take like the Vader mask off of Darth Vader, that's what I imagine he's doing.

• 45:59Mike Smith?

  Right. Okay, so at everyone's amazement, Glass is still alive and breathing the next morning. And they're like, all right, well, we can't just leave him. So they cut off a bunch of branches. They made a little litter to carry him on and they started transporting him west, taking turns, you know, each man would take one side of the, the gurney or whatever, the litter. They just were hauling him through some of the most unforgiving and swiftly the winter was setting in, not like quite so cold, probably in September yet, but like, this is not a forgiving place to have to carry a full grown man through, especially when, you know, there's tribesmen out there who are gonna kill you on sight and like take you for all your worth and leave you dead.

• 46:37Wes Larson?

  I think something that's kind of lost between the movie, which I think most people probably know the story from The Revenant, is that was filmed in very lush, kind of dense conifer forest in the mountains. And this was more kind of open, scattered forests with like very high winds. We're talking kind of like the Great Plains as it meets the mountains type of places. So it's like very windy, very harsh country, just in a different way from the way the movie was filmed.

• 47:06Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Eastern Montana, man, you gotta hate it, right?

• 47:10Wes Larson?

  Place, yeah. I love it, but it's rough.

• 47:12Mike Smith?

  I'm never going there. There's bears there, it sounds like.

• 47:16Wes Larson?

  Not really anymore.

• 47:17Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Well, a couple of days passed. They were carrying Glass around all over the wilderness. And Captain Henry was finally just like, okay, we can't really afford to be slowed down like this in such dangerous territory. The cold was setting in, parties out there, they were gonna attack them if they ever saw them. But he also knew that they couldn't just abandon him. So what he did, he came up with the idea of leaving two men behind to kind of care for Glass during his final hours, bury him, and then catch back up with the rest of the company once Glass had finally passed. And he offered extra pay. It was like eighty dollars, which back in that day was like half a year's wages, I think, is what he offered them. I don't know the exact figure, but that's the number I saw thrown around.

• 48:00Mike Smith?

  And you would think that like for these two guys that are gonna be left behind, it's a little bit of a conflict of interest. Because it's like.

• 48:07Wes Larson?

  You want him to die.

• 48:08Mike Smith?

  The faster he dies, the faster you can like go get paid and be safe and be with the rest of the guys. But I'm sure like, well, we'll get to it.

• 48:17Jeff Larson?

  Well, like, and in the movie, I'm not sure this is real life, but like, one of the people was, didn't really even care about the money. He just wanted to make sure Glass gets like the care he needs type of thing, you know?

• 48:31Mike Smith?

  Right. So I'm glad you brought that up because we're gonna talk about the two men who volunteered to stay behind with him. One was an unreputable, disreputable sort, John Fitzgerald, and the other was a teenager.

• 48:44Jeff Larson?

  Bad move by the captain then.

• 48:45Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 48:46Jeff Larson?

  Come on, dude.

• 48:49Mike Smith?

  And this is in some ways a little bit worse, but the other was just like a teenager. He was a seventeen year old kid who was like, I'll also stay behind. I don't know, parenting.

• 48:58Jeff Larson?

  That's a grown man back then.

• 49:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, teenagers at seventeen have been through a lot back then.

• 49:04Jeff Larson?

  They lived to like thirty back then. He's like a fifty year old.

• 49:07Wes Larson?

  He's having his midlife crisis.

• 49:11Mike Smith?

  So for five days Fitzgerald and Bridger, these two men that volunteered to stay behind, they were sitting around just kind of waiting for glass to die and they were down by the Grand River. And every once in a while, they'd go fetch some water, pour it down his throat. Just like, again, they didn't want him to suffer during his final moments more than he already was. Of course, he was already in like, probably the worst way a human being has been in maybe ever. I don't want to say that, but it was bad.

• 49:36Wes Larson?

  I didn't say that.

• 49:36Mike Smith?

  But they were just like, he was barely conscious. They dumped some water down his throat every once in a while and his condition just kept getting worse. He, he developed a massive fever and finally Fitzgerald was just like, "Okay, these are the quote unquote death sweats." And he told Bridger, "It's time to go. Let's get out of here. He's dead." He may even have concocted a story about some retribesmen coming to attack and kill them. And Bridger, for his part-

• 50:05Jeff Larson?

  Some retribes?

• 50:07Mike Smith?

  Yeah, retribesmen, Arracara. I don't know how to, I don't know what they're called. I don't know if you guys are familiar with their name, but-

• 50:13Jeff Larson?

  Retribes sounds funny to me.

• 50:15Mike Smith?

  Retribes.

• 50:16Wes Larson?

  I do think, we keep saying this is like Eastern Montana, but it was more kind of in present day South Dakota, right?

• 50:22Mike Smith?

  It's like on the border Dakota, Montana, like that general area. Yeah.

• 50:26Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 50:27Mike Smith?

  Anyway, Bridger may or may not have had some reservations about leaving Glass behind, but the fact is that he was still alive and the two men decided to leave, whatever the case was. One final act of betrayal saw them take his knife, his flint, his steel, the gunpowder that he had on him, and most painfully of all, his prized rifle. Reasoning to themselves, kind of rightfully so, but like, it'd be more useful to them because even Glass was alive, but he couldn't even use it, even if he were conscious. And he was, he was, he was like, listening and seeing everything these two guys were doing. And I like to think that he was just like so mad at that moment.

• 51:07Mike Smith?

  He decided, "I'm going to live through this so I can get up and go kill these two people."

• 51:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Mike Smith?

  For leaving me for dead.

• 51:15Jeff Larson?

  Well, maybe, maybe they did the move that Tom Hardy does in the movie, where he's like, "Hey, if you're okay with me leaving, blink." And he just waited until he blinked.

• 51:26Mike Smith?

  For like two minutes.

• 51:27Jeff Larson?

  "If you're okay with me taking your rifle, blink."

• 51:30Wes Larson?

  Wease a little bit through your throat.

• 51:33Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 51:33Wes Larson?

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• 52:16Wes Larson?

  even in the hard to find sizes. And if you sleep hot, they use Glaciotex covers, copper infused foams, and temperature regulating materials to help keep you cool and comfortable all night long. Me and Jesse actually had a really, really nice mattress prior to this and it was hard for me to give it up because I just didn't think that Brooklyn Bedding could possibly be better. And it is. I'm really happy. I'll never look back. I just love my mattress. So go to brooklinbedding.com, use our promo code TOOTH at checkout to get 30% off site wide during the Black Friday sale exclusively with our code. That's brooklinbedding.com and promo code TOOTH for 30% off site wide. Let them know that we sent you in the survey after checkout.

• 52:59Wes Larson?

  Brooklinbedding.com promo code TOOTH. Tooth and Claw is brought to you by Miracle Maids. You know, we've talked about this a lot, but your bedroom temperature can really affect your sleep quality. And if you wake up too hot or cold, I really recommend that you check out Miracle Maids bed sheets. They're inspired by NASA and they use silver infused fabrics that are temperature regulating. So you can get at the perfect temperature all night long. I don't understand how they do it.

• 53:27Jeff Larson?

  All night long.

• 53:28Wes Larson?

  All night long, dude. These things go all night long. I don't understand how they do it. No, but I really don't. I like for me, sometimes I get into bed.

• 53:38Jeff Larson?

  It's the silver.

• 53:39Wes Larson?

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• 54:23Wes Larson?

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• 55:03Jeff Larson?

  I just got the rosewood colored ones. And just a great color. I really, I just like looking at it, you know? I don't make my bed because my...

• 55:13Wes Larson?

  You want to see your sheets?

• 55:14Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I want to see my sheets.

• 55:19Mike Smith?

  Glass had festering wounds, a broken leg, and deep cuts on his back and head that exposed his bare ribs. And not his ribs weren't in his head, but the ones on his back. That's where his ribs were.

• 55:30Jeff Larson?

  He has the bear's ribs?

• 55:31Mike Smith?

  He's got the bear ribs. Crazy. No, but like, imagine that. Your wounds are so bad, it just doesn't seem like you should be alive if you could see some of his ribs from the back.

• 55:41Wes Larson?

  Unsurvivable. Especially in that time.

• 55:44Mike Smith?

  Right. So he was laying on the ground, just broken and now abandoned, more than 200 miles from the nearest American settlement at Fort Kiowa. When his fever finally mercifully broke, he gained some strength by picking and eating some buffalo berries from a nearby bush. He smashed them up, he mixed them up with water, and he just choked them down, his ruined throat. Not long after, and this is another detail, take it or leave it, but a rattlesnake came slithering by just close enough because he still wasn't mobile, but a snake came by close enough that he grabbed a rock, smashed it, mashed that up, mixed it with water, and he, and he drank that down too, some like snake smoothie.

• 56:21Wes Larson?

  Weird way to eat it.

• 56:23Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 56:25Mike Smith?

  Real weird, but like you can't eat solid.

• 56:27Wes Larson?

  Throat, yeah.

• 56:28Mike Smith?

  He knew though, that he needed to move if he wanted to survive. So he set the bone of his own leg and wrapped himself in whatever clothing he had available to him. And he began literally crawling the 200 miles towards Fort Kiowa. So just imagine even in the best of circumstances, crawling 200 miles. Now imagine doing that with your ribs visible through your back wounds.

• 56:51Wes Larson?

  I had like a little bit of lower back pain last night in bed.

• 56:55Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 56:55Wes Larson?

  And I wouldn't flip over because I was like worried that it would kind of hurt my back if I flipped over. So it's impossible to imagine what.

• 57:05Mike Smith?

  So you know what he's talking about.

• 57:10Wes Larson?

  That's nothing.

• 57:11Mike Smith?

  I completely understand.

• 57:14Mike Smith?

  So.

• 57:17Wes Larson?

  Mike, you're probably gonna say this, but what is the world record army crawl?

• 57:22Mike Smith?

  That's, I was, like, you'll be shocked to learn that I wasn't actually gonna cover that. So if you want to look that up, I'll really be happy to hear that. Maybe once we finish the story. So he knew that he'd be able to restock, hopefully get a little healthier, and then plan out his next move from this fort, Fort Kiowa, Kiowa, however you pronounce it, K I O W A, Kiowa. Driven now only by vengeance, he vowed never to stop until he found and killed both Fitzgerald and Bridger. And here's where some accounts actually differ. Some people say it was purely vengeance and spite that made him like continue this journey for, to kill Fitzgerald and Bridger. But some people think he just liked his gun so much that's that, that's like all he cared about. He's like.

• 58:04Wes Larson?

  I don't, whatever, just give me my gun back, which is great. Wants to polish it all night long again.

• 58:10Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So at some point, and still crawling, mind you, he happened upon a dead buffalo calf and managed to scare off a pack of wolves who were feeding on it by using a torch in one of those little, like the bow drill to start a fire. I don't know if you guys have ever tried to do like the little like cast away fire.

• 58:27Wes Larson?

  It's not easy.

• 58:27Mike Smith?

  It's freaking impossible.

• 58:29Wes Larson?

  It takes.

• 58:29Mike Smith?

  I can't, I've never been able to do. I've tried for hours at a time, you know?

• 58:33Wes Larson?

  That's pretty brave to decide.

• 58:34Jeff Larson?

  No, you have not.

• 58:35Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna scare these wolves, you know, I'm gonna crawl out bleeding and dying and hope that I scare them and not that they decide to eat me. That's like pretty brave.

• 58:47Mike Smith?

  It's amazing. So anyway, once Hugh was able to procure this.

• 58:51Jeff Larson?

  Did he drink the buffalo?

• 58:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah, he smashed it up and put it in water.

• 58:56Mike Smith?

  He pulled out his little juicer and put a chunk in.

• 59:00Wes Larson?

  That's where Arowan started.

• 59:02Mike Smith?

  No. So Hugh, once he procured this buffalo meat from these wolves, he started.

• 59:08Jeff Larson?

  Sorry, Joe Rogan, if he was like on this, just be like, bro, Hugh Glass, he had it figured out. You gotta like drink buffalo.

• 59:17Wes Larson?

  Drink your protein.

• 59:19Jeff Larson?

  Every day.

• 59:21Wes Larson?

  It's a true primitive diet.

• 59:22Mike Smith?

  Well, maybe he's on to something because this buffalo meat, it's really helping Hugh out now. He lays kind of just right next to this buffalo corpse, just tearing off chunks. With his fire, he'd dry out like kind of analogous to what you'd call beef jerky, just like dry all this meat out and eat it slowly, regained his strength until finally he could actually get back on his own two feet. He's still had a broken leg, still had all these wounds, but like at least he was able to limp on the ground instead of just crawling on his belly. So great. Things are looking up, right? Another change for the better was somewhere along the way, a passing band of Sioux mercifully took him in and let him continue his journey alongside them. And this part's gross, but they actually, they, they stripped him down of all of his clothes

• 1:00:08Mike Smith?

  and they started cleaning his back of all the maggots that were festering and feeding on his dead and decaying skin on his back. This is like weeks after the attack. So who knows how.

• 1:00:18Jeff Larson?

  That's like kinda good for him though, right?

• 1:00:21Mike Smith?

  I think it is, but at the same time.

• 1:00:23Jeff Larson?

  I learned that from Gladiator.

• 1:00:26Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's right. What part were they eating on him?

• 1:00:28Jeff Larson?

  When he first gets caught as a slave.

• 1:00:31Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Jeff Larson?

  And he's gonna like clear the maggots out of his wound and the guy is like, buddy's like, no, leave him.

• 1:00:38Mike Smith?

  That's right. So it's a good thing. Maybe these two natives were doing him a disservice by taking his maggots off him.

• 1:00:44Jeff Larson?

  After a certain amount of time, he can take them.

• 1:00:47Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Six long weeks after the initial bear attack, he arrived safely in Fort Kiowa, where he got himself set up with a new gun, some clothes, and then he caught a ride on a riverboat heading up towards Fort Henry on the Yellowstone River, which is where he expected to find the two men that had left him for dead. And Fort Henry was their original company's destination. So that was his best chance, he figured, to find these guys. And you know, he was gonna get there. He was gonna give him what fur? He was gonna...

• 1:01:14Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. Chew him out. Real good.

• 1:01:18Mike Smith?

  It's actually funny you say that. Well, we'll get to it. But depending on who's telling the story, Glass survived either like one or two or several more deadly encounters, usually with the Arikara tribe. Each time just barely escaping with his life, continuing his journey solo through the quickly setting in cold of winter. And after months of traveling, he finally arrived at the small encampment near Fort Henry on the Yellowstone River, still horribly scarred and now covered with frost. And it was like this that he made his first appearance to his old company, led by his old captain. You can just imagine all these guys probably sitting around the campfire being like, oh, man, poor Glass.

• 1:01:57Mike Smith?

  Dead. Long, long gone. And then he just shows up looking literally probably like a, like a zombie or a ghost or both. And they're just like, wait a minute.

• 1:02:06Jeff Larson?

  Been told like, by those two people, like, yeah, he's dead.

• 1:02:10Mike Smith?

  Right. Yeah, they had lied.

• 1:02:11Jeff Larson?

  I'd wanna talk to the...

• 1:02:13Mike Smith?

  Manager?

• 1:02:15Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, the guy's manager, though.

• 1:02:17Wes Larson?

  Jeff's Karen side coming out.

• 1:02:19Mike Smith?

  Uh, Captain, what, Captain Henry?

• 1:02:21Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I'd wanna talk to Captain Henry's manager.

• 1:02:25Mike Smith?

  Oh, that's another interesting thing you bring up because he is actually about to go meet with them in St. Louis. So Fitzgerald, it turned out, he actually wasn't there anymore. He set off down river a month or so before Hugh's arrival, but the teenage Bridger was. But all of a sudden, the young man just looked too young to Glass to kill. So he contended himself with just berating him loudly in front of the rest of the men. And then he just rejoined his old company and hung out with them, just not knowing really what else to do. But still, that festering in his heart just needed to find Fitzgerald and make things right. And I can imagine, it's probably pretty awkward for Bridger at this point because

• 1:03:07Mike Smith?

  he's like, just hanging out with Glass again, after he just like crawled through hundreds of miles of wilderness. And he's like, my bad, man. That's on me. Sorry. But soon after, Captain Henry instructed Glass to head to Fort Atkinson near St. Louis to deliver a message to the trapping expedition's backers. And I always, I like to think about distances back in these days and like, how long it took to travel across the United States. And it's like, your boss is just like, here's a letter, go give it to my boss over in St. Louis. And you're like, that's like 5% of my life that I'm about to spend just delivering a message, you know? And it's like, who know, they might not be there. I might die. Like,

• 1:03:51Mike Smith?

  so many things could go wrong. But it's just like, that's just the way things were. As fate would have it, Fitzgerald was there at Fort Atkinson and Hugh thought to himself, finally, I've got my chance. Let's do this. But in a cruel twist, Fitzgerald was now an enlisted soldier in the US Army, now under the protection of his commanding officer. Glass knew that if he were to kill him, he'd probably be put to death himself. And if not that, at least jailed at this fort for a very long time. So he's like, threw his hands up. I don't, I can't kill him. I don't know what to do. But he did get his old rifle back. His journey ended without him getting vengeance on either of the two men, which maybe you can say is

• 1:04:34Mike Smith?

  probably, I would say is a good thing, even if he would have pulled that trigger. Could he have and not forgiven either of them?

• 1:04:41Wes Larson?

  Wouldn't make him feel better.

• 1:04:42Mike Smith?

  No vengeance never it's a perpetuating that circle of violence, you know?

• 1:04:47Jeff Larson?

  Well, and it is like, I think in our minds, I'm speaking for people who have only seen the movie. And that's their whole mindset of the huge ass story.

• 1:04:58Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Jeff Larson?

  But in the movie, you really want him to get his revenge because he Fitzgerald kills his son and tries to kill him. Like this is much different. Like, I don't necessarily feel like Fitzgerald needed to be killed, you know?

• 1:05:15Mike Smith?

  Be killed.

• 1:05:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Mike Smith?

  There are some tellings of this story do say that Glass just forgave him. That he wasn't ever really going to kill him to begin with, but who knows?

• 1:05:25Wes Larson?

  It's miraculous that he survived. Like you can't blame these two men for thinking like this dude is dead. He's going to die.

• 1:05:33Mike Smith?

  Right. I mean,

• 1:05:34Jeff Larson?

  And it's almost like a sword of vengeance he got just by like showing his face to them again. Cause it's kind of saying like, you coward, you left me there.

• 1:05:44Mike Smith?

  For the rest of their life, they have to live knowing that. Yeah. Anyway, so we're going to wrap this story up. There's so much that happens even after this meeting with Fitzgerald, but he did issue one final warning to the man saying, you had better never leave the army or I'll find you and I'll kill you. According to some tellings of the story, he actually did manage to put a small pistol ball through Fitzgerald's shoulder before heading back west and living his life as the legendary mountain man that we knew him to be.

• 1:06:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's the army's current recruiting slogan, right?

• 1:06:16Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Wes Larson?

  Don't ever leave or we'll find you and kill you.

• 1:06:18Mike Smith?

  Exactly. It works. Yeah. Impressionable young minds. Yeah. Oh, man. Hardcore. So just in the interest of time, there's just so much that happened after this attack. I focused on the attack because that's kind of the purview of our show, but I just can't get over this. Hundreds and even thousands of miles that this man had to literally crawl and then walk through grievously injured, just.

• 1:06:43Jeff Larson?

  The world record is thirty five mile crawl.

• 1:06:45Mike Smith?

  I don't think it is.

• 1:06:46Jeff Larson?

  Fifty six meters.

• 1:06:47Wes Larson?

  He's got a beat.

• 1:06:48Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:49Mike Smith?

  I mean Glass hasn't. Anyway, that's the end of Hugh Glass's story. Ten years after all of these events took place, he had one final fateful encounter with the Arikara. And most likely they did kill him and take his possessions since a friend of Glass's did recognize his rifle in their possession. Once when he crossed paths with them, but no one, no one ever saw a dead body. And when it comes to Hugh, I'm gonna need to see a body to believe that he's actually dead.

• 1:07:16Wes Larson?

  It has to be no pulse.

• 1:07:18Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Jeff Larson?

  I'd at least imagine his ghost like didn't leave the earth.

• 1:07:22Mike Smith?

  Yeah, he's still.

• 1:07:24Jeff Larson?

  Like most ghosts, I think, leave the earth, but I think his is still around. The bear's too. The bear cub probably out there.

• 1:07:32Wes Larson?

  He's got a huge ass. I, I, one thing I thought of while you were talking about this was like, it was probably kind of fortunate for him that this happened the time of year it did. Because it wasn't so hot that there was probably like tons of bugs and infection and that sort of thing. But then it also wasn't so cold that it was impossible to move. Like he probably is right in that sweet spot where he didn't get crazy infected and bug ridden. But then also not too cold to where he couldn't even survive.

• 1:08:02Jeff Larson?

  Probably easier to army crawl in the snow too.

• 1:08:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Jeff Larson?

  You slide a bit more.

• 1:08:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah, a little more fun to make like snow angels and stuff because you're already like on the ground. May as well get a couple of those in. But thus ends maybe the life and times of the legendary mountain man Hugh Glass, one of the toughest men maybe ever to have lived. Uh, if even fifty percent of this story is true, which there's some, some good evidence that a lot of this did happen the way it's been told. Just a, just a different time. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to make it even a day out there.

• 1:08:37Wes Larson?

  Short list for toughest dudes ever, without a doubt. He's on my Mount Rushmore.

• 1:08:43Mike Smith?

  Alright, so we've got nothing else, we can go on to categories?

• 1:08:47Wes Larson?

  Let's do it. We're gonna do a, a full movie review of The Revenant 2. This is kind of, in a way, a two-parter, because we're doing the story and then we're gonna movie review The Revenant, so we'll talk about that movie more when that happens.

• 1:08:59Mike Smith?

  What are you, what are you guys gonna give him on the ouchie scale?

• 1:09:02Wes Larson?

  Nine? I'm gonna give him nine ouchies. Man, I don't know, this is probably 10. Getting that torn up by a grizzly bear and then just having to like, sit in your pain for that long, without any kind of help and then army crawling for, yeah, I can't think of any, I'm giving him 10. This is a 10 ouchie story. If it happened how it was reported, then it's a 10 ouchies.

• 1:09:23Mike Smith?

  It's a, it's a 10 for me. It feels like the aftermath of the attack was almost worse in a lot of ways, just because of how drawn out the suffering was and

• 1:09:32Wes Larson?

  Oh yeah.

• 1:09:33Mike Smith?

  how brutal that trek across the wilderness wa, would be. But yeah, 10. I think I'd still rather be Hugh than this, I don't know, Cynthia Dussel bacon's rough, but like, I don't even know which one I would pick between those two.

• 1:09:46Wes Larson?

  I mean, she, she had a terrible experience, but she at least got to like somewhat modern medical care not long after.

• 1:09:52Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Wes Larson?

  You know, and like for him, it was like, probably the rest of his life that he felt pain from this. So it's gotta be 10 for me.

• 1:10:01Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna give it a nine.

• 1:10:03Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 1:10:04Jeff Larson?

  I think he recovered pretty well. I don't know. That's my only thing.

• 1:10:08Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:08Mike Smith?

  Maybe. Alright, it's hard to say exactly.

• 1:10:11Jeff Larson?

  He didn't lose any limbs or anything. I don't know.

• 1:10:14Mike Smith?

  That's true. That is a good point.

• 1:10:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Mike Smith?

  Yeah. It seemed like people back then were a little more impervious to like psychological and long-lasting emotional damage.

• 1:10:23Wes Larson?

  You were unscathed after being shot in the leg.

• 1:10:26Mike Smith?

  Yeah. Right.

• 1:10:59Jeff Larson?

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• 1:11:33Mike Smith?

  Do you ever want to find Jeff? Just follow the trail of sunglasses.

• 1:11:36Wes Larson?

  The trail of sunglasses.

• 1:11:36Mike Smith?

  Like a Hans Longraddl situation.

• 1:11:39Jeff Larson?

  And you know what? I break sunglasses a lot, Mike.

• 1:11:42Mike Smith?

  I know.

• 1:11:42Jeff Larson?

  And these ones have a one-year warranty. So I can just get a new one. And I have done that a few times. I use some, what are they called? The like brown turtle shell. What do you call that?

• 1:11:55Wes Larson?

  Tortoiseshell.

• 1:11:55Jeff Larson?

  Tortoiseshell. Those are the best sunglasses I've ever had for fly fishing because they're polarized. The lens tint is perfect. So I can just see straight through the water, see every fish. It's like I'm cheating.

• 1:12:09Mike Smith?

  I remember when you and Brent, when you and Brent first got your Gooder sunglasses, I would always ask you guys like, where'd you guys get those? Because I love the way they looked. And then the, yeah, the tint on the lenses is really just perfect.

• 1:12:23Jeff Larson?

  There, if you fly fish, get yourself a pair of some Brownsland Gooders. And if you like pickleball, hiking, going to the beach, get yourself a pair of sunglasses. They're amazing. So if you need a new pair of sunnies, Gooder is giving Tooth and Claw listeners free shipping. You can go to gooder.com/tooth and use code TOOTH for free shipping. Gooder offers 30-day money-back guarantee and 100% satisfaction. Again, that's gooder.com/tooth and use code TOOTH for free shipping.

• 1:12:56Mike Smith?

  Sounds like a Gooder deal. Let's go to categories. Okay. First category is, so we went over a lot. You, you led a life of great incident. I just want to know. Even before the bear attack, he was getting in all sorts of tight spots. So what part of Hugh Glass's story would you most likely have personally given up and/or died at?

• 1:13:20Jeff Larson?

  I think when the pirates got caught, I wouldn't have been like the only one to escape.

• 1:13:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I'm probably dying pretty early in this story.

• 1:13:28Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Wes Larson?

  But the part that I say I survived, I think the hardest point of his story is right after he was mauled, where he's like gurgling out of his throat and his ribs are exposed and stuff. I'm for sure giving up at that point.

• 1:13:40Mike Smith?

  Tapping out.

• 1:13:41Wes Larson?

  But yeah, I'm with Jeff. I would have died pretty early on in all of this.

• 1:13:44Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So considering the pirates extend me the offer, I of course accepts because I don't want to die.

• 1:13:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Mike Smith?

  But I think once I miraculously survive the escape from the ship and go through the whole Pawnee tribe situation, where you see your friend get burned to death and just like miraculously have some powder in your pocket.

• 1:14:02Wes Larson?

  Some Cinnabar.

• 1:14:03Mike Smith?

  All right. I've used up all my luck. I'm just going to go home. I'm done. But yeah, he's made of different stuff. Okay. So like Hugh Glass's rifle, I want to know what one inanimate object you own that you spend the most time caring for?

• 1:14:17Wes Larson?

  I thought this was a category because someone compared me to an inanimate object. I like that it's a huge, huge ass one. For me, it's my shed, my recording shed that I built this year is my favorite object that I own. I just like every time I come out here, either to record or watch a movie or something, I just feel so cozy. You compared it to a fort the other day, Mike, and that's perfect. It feels like an adult fort that I got to build and I just love being out here. So it's the thing that I definitely put the most time into caring for and, and like enjoying.

• 1:14:50Jeff Larson?

  I have two from my grandparents. I have like a little bamboo stonefly or salmon fly that are my dad's dad made. And Wes has one of those too. And then I have some rocks that I really like from my mom's dad. And one especially is like Mexican fireo ball that I.

• 1:15:13Jeff Larson?

  I like used a tumbler to really grind it down and it just kept opening up more and more fire opal like at first it didn't seem like it'd be that cool. And then like the more, the more I grinded it down, the more it opened up and now it looks like scratch marks across the rock, which I just love it.

• 1:15:34Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Jeff Larson?

  And I'm afraid I've made another fire opal rock into a ring of his and I lost it and I'm so afraid that someday I'm gonna, I think I've lost it like five times, but I managed to find this one.

• 1:15:48Mike Smith?

  Dude, rocks are really like, those are good to have just in case you need to smash a snake with one and eat it.

• 1:15:54Wes Larson?

  That's true and make a smoothie.

• 1:15:56Mike Smith?

  We should all get ourselves some snake smashing rocks.

• 1:16:00Wes Larson?

  I should have said my grizzly bear skull. That's a much better answer because that probably is the one thing I would like grab in a fire and take out is a skull.

• 1:16:07Mike Smith?

  Oh, really? But do you like, on a daily basis, do you, are you like dusting it?

• 1:16:11Wes Larson?

  No, and that's the reason I didn't pick that because it kind of just sits in a, in a like little display box, but it is probably my favorite inanimate object that I own.

• 1:16:21Mike Smith?

  I got a pretty nice tablet recently and I get really paranoid when I get new tech, just like I hate finger smudges on anything. I get like super tank gear protection to keep it safe and I found myself just kind of absentmindedly wiping the screen with a microfiber cloth, just kind of like instinctively like a knee jerk habit. And I probably have wiped the screen with a fiber cloth, microfiber cloth more than I've actually like read something on it.

• 1:16:51Jeff Larson?

  What image do you have up on the screen when you're wiping it?

• 1:16:54Wes Larson?

  Which girl from One Piece is it?

• 1:16:57Mike Smith?

  Okay, anyway, so we're gonna move on to kind of like a special back half of categories. I really wanted to let Jeff cook with this first one. So I just gave him the assignment to come up with a top five list of literally anything that he wanted to make a top five list about.

• 1:17:12Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, no, I appreciated that. I came up with a top 11.

• 1:17:18Mike Smith?

  Okay, yeah, great.

• 1:17:19Wes Larson?

  True Jeff fashion.

• 1:17:21Jeff Larson?

  With some honorable mentions.

• 1:17:23Mike Smith?

  Alright.

• 1:17:25Wes Larson?

  Buckle up.

• 1:17:27Jeff Larson?

  Alright, so it's top 11 houses I can think of.

• 1:17:32Wes Larson?

  Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:17:34Jeff Larson?

  So first I went with Palace of Versailles. Versailles.

• 1:17:38Wes Larson?

  Versailles.

• 1:17:38Jeff Larson?

  Versailles. Yeah.

• 1:17:39Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Jeff Larson?

  Me and Mike went there when we went to Paris. It's the one Marie Antoinette lived in, I think. And I really liked the movie Marie Antoinette by, uh, what's her name?

• 1:17:51Wes Larson?

  Sofia Coppola.

• 1:17:52Jeff Larson?

  Sofia Coppola.

• 1:17:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:54Jeff Larson?

  So like I, it's like kinda too big, but back then they didn't know about global warming or anything. So it wasn't really, they didn't care how big it was, you know?

• 1:18:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Jeff Larson?

  Also, I wouldn't choose something this big, but in that movie, it looks really nice.

• 1:18:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All the garden.

• 1:18:12Jeff Larson?

  So that's 11.

• 1:18:13Wes Larson?

  The garden plants and stuff probably offset all the global warming they're producing, right?

• 1:18:18Jeff Larson?

  But yeah. And then next is just when I was doing a moving job and I moved the accountant for Bill Gates in San Francisco. And he had a house where you could see the Golden Gate Bridge and Alcatraz. And like, it's just really nice house that I saw. Number nine is the house.

• 1:18:40Jeff Larson?

  The house from the movie Pixar movie up. Like not the best house, but just a lot like.

• 1:18:45Wes Larson?

  Very charming.

• 1:18:46Jeff Larson?

  More memories packed in there. And then it went into space. So that's like a space house.

• 1:18:51Wes Larson?

  Right. Did it go into space?

• 1:18:55Jeff Larson?

  Number, number eight is from the TV show Big Little Lies. I really love.

• 1:19:02Wes Larson?

  Great homes in that Nicole Kidman's house.

• 1:19:04Jeff Larson?

  Great hopes. Yep. Nicole Kidman's house was my favorite. You, most people might say Laura Dern's is a little too big for me.

• 1:19:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Jeff Larson?

  Nicole Kidman's was perfect. And I just think Monterey Bay is like one of the best areas in the country.

• 1:19:19Wes Larson?

  Great house.

• 1:19:20Jeff Larson?

  Next I'm going number seven in the movie Count of Monte Cristo with like Guy Pearce. Where he like pulls up to that palace or mansion and then just like empties his wagon full of treasure. And he's like, I'm buying your mansion.

• 1:19:35Wes Larson?

  It's cool.

• 1:19:36Jeff Larson?

  And then it's just like a cool mansion. Yeah. Next I'm going real life Pablo Escobar's house. That thing was sick. He had like his own zoo with hippos. He, him and the boys would just like ride motor cars around a track that he had there. Like Columbia's beautiful.

• 1:19:55Wes Larson?

  Sure.

• 1:19:56Jeff Larson?

  Next I'm going Logan Roy from Succession. I just love a huge penthouse in New York City to get like some sunset and stuff. Would be pretty sick. Next I'm going, this is number four.

• 1:20:09Mike Smith?

  So, okay, we're in the top five now. So we're in the, we're in the parameters.

• 1:20:13Jeff Larson?

  Love my cast. Next I'm going with Shrek's house. A lot of people will probably be mad at me for this one, but like he lives in a sick tree. And like he has like this swamp area. He takes mud baths. Like his house is pretty nice.

• 1:20:31Mike Smith?

  No plumbing. He's got the outhouse. I just, that's a, like, that's a red flag for me. But this is your list.

• 1:20:37Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, number three, I got the house from Parasite. I don't know, just like the way the characters talk about the house and stuff. I don't love mansion. So like Parasite House is like a great size and like the way he talks about how the architect made it. So that the sun hits it just right. It's made me like that house a lot. Number two is one I visited, Robert Redford's house in, at Sundance Mountain Resort. It's like the coolest house I've ever seen in my life. And he has like houses for all his kids right there and like friends. And then you don't see any of the resort stuff or any of like the cabins at Sundance. It's just like a hillside that goes into Sundance or into Tempanogas Mountain.

• 1:21:22Jeff Larson?

  So like, it's just beautiful. Robert Redford's house is awesome. And then my number one choice is Emperor's New Groove. Where they have like him and his best friend to have houses at the top. Water, water slides that go out of their house into a pool where they can like go hang out every day.

• 1:21:45Wes Larson?

  I can't think of anything better. If we all three had houses up there. Oh, man. Dream. It's a great top five.

• 1:21:52Mike Smith?

  Okay, great. Top five.

• 1:21:54Jeff Larson?

  Thank you.

• 1:21:55Mike Smith?

  I, I also gave, well, I didn't give Wes an assignment more of just like, I mean, give him a quick quiz.

• 1:22:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:01Mike Smith?

  A warning of sorts. So what I'm going to do for every question that he gets right, and I'm calling this the big bucks bear quiz. I'm going to donate $25 to a charity of his choice. Okay. And you get one phone a friend. So I, I, you can ask Jeff for help on one of these questions. So use it wisely.

• 1:22:20Jeff Larson?

  Can I use the internet?

• 1:22:22Mike Smith?

  Uh, no.

• 1:22:25Mike Smith?

  I guess there's not really a good way to stop you.

• 1:22:27Jeff Larson?

  I won't.

• 1:22:28Mike Smith?

  But, okay. So we're gonna start, start off with a bit of a softball question, Wes. Cause we want at least some money to be going to this charity of yours. Yeah. So, Baloo from the Jungle Book, what kind of bear was he?

• 1:22:39Wes Larson?

  Most likely a sloth bear, cause he's an Indian bear living in more jungly part of India. India does have a few species of bear, but they think he was probably a sloth bear.

• 1:22:49Jeff Larson?

  Hmm, wrong. Blue bear.

• 1:22:51Mike Smith?

  Blue, yeah. Baloo bear. Do sloth bears, cause he is kinda like a blue grayish. Do they, is that a color that is naturally occurring?

• 1:22:59Wes Larson?

  He doesn't really look like, he looks probably most like, like a polar bear or a black bear or something.

• 1:23:04Mike Smith?

  That's true.

• 1:23:04Wes Larson?

  But, no. But that, just because it's in India and the jungle, he's probably a sloth bear. And we're gonna do an episode soon on sloth bears.

• 1:23:11Mike Smith?

  Well, the Jungle Book Wiki has me believing that that's the correct answer.

• 1:23:16Wes Larson?

  So.

• 1:23:16Mike Smith?

  Great. Twenty-five dollars.

• 1:23:17Jeff Larson?

  Answer.

• 1:23:18Mike Smith?

  Answer. Amsterdam. So, the next question. The correct way to spell the Berenstain Bears is with an E-I-N at the end or an A-I-N at the end?

• 1:23:30Wes Larson?

  Uh.

• 1:23:32Wes Larson?

  Cause this is that Mandela effect thing.

• 1:23:34Mike Smith?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Wes Larson?

  Uh, it's A-I-N.

• 1:23:38Mike Smith?

  Final answer?

• 1:23:39Wes Larson?

  Yes.

• 1:23:40Mike Smith?

  All right, that's, you got two for two so far. You're doing great. So, this is like, uh, well, you'll see. It's a fifty-fifty chance for you here. So on the cover of the children's book Corduroy, the titular bear is missing one of the shoulder buttons on his overalls. What shoulder is it?

• 1:23:57Wes Larson?

  Left.

• 1:23:58Mike Smith?

  Oh, you missed it dude. Oh, you hate charity Wes. Oh, man. Okay, it's his right shoulder. Great book. I love that book.

• 1:24:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:06Mike Smith?

  Uh, next question. Multiple choice. Which of Winnie the Pooh's friends is not mentioned in the original song? Is it Rabbit? Is it Rue? Is it Tigger? Or is it Eeyore?

• 1:24:19Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna go with Rue.

• 1:24:21Mike Smith?

  Nope.

• 1:24:22Wes Larson?

  Oh.

• 1:24:23Mike Smith?

  Man, you've really, you must not really care for this charity thing. It's Ticker.

• 1:24:29Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 1:24:30Mike Smith?

  Tickers, yeah, cuz he didn't appear in the first volume of Winnie the Pooh, so.

• 1:24:34Jeff Larson?

  So far, I.

• 1:24:35Wes Larson?

  Son, I'm fifty percent right now.

• 1:24:37Jeff Larson?

  Helped you.

• 1:24:38Mike Smith?

  Yeah, okay, okay. I think you're gonna get this one now. Next question, what color is Paddington's cap under which he stores his marmalade sandwich?

• 1:24:47Wes Larson?

  It's like an orangish red.

• 1:24:49Mike Smith?

  Yep, I would have gone with, yeah, that, it works. I was just, I had red written down.

• 1:24:54Jeff Larson?

  I don't really think there's any orange in it.

• 1:24:56Wes Larson?

  We always disagree on colors. Me and Jeff see colors vastly differently. It's orangish red to me.

• 1:25:01Mike Smith?

  Okay. Next question, this is a Muppet question. This is a bonus Muppet question. What is Fozzie Bear's occupation? And you get an extra point if you can do an impression of his famous laugh.

• 1:25:13Wes Larson?

  I'm gonna phone a friend on this one. Jeff, do you know Fozzie Bear's occupation?

• 1:25:18Jeff Larson?

  I don't know who Fozzie Bear is.

• 1:25:20Wes Larson?

  He's a Muppet. This isn't, so far my phone a friend isn't going well.

• 1:25:23Mike Smith?

  I gave you a little bit of a hint in the second.

• 1:25:26Jeff Larson?

  I would, I would say a lawyer.

• 1:25:29Wes Larson?

  Uh, wait.

• 1:25:30Mike Smith?

  Here, I'm, I'll read the question again.

• 1:25:31Wes Larson?

  He's a comedian, he's a comedian.

• 1:25:33Mike Smith?

  And his laugh?

• 1:25:34Wes Larson?

  His laugh is mahahaha.

• 1:25:38Mike Smith?

  Kinda close. It's the waka waka waka. But he is a comedian, you got it.

• 1:25:41Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:42Mike Smith?

  So that's another twenty-five. Oh, man, I'm going, I don't have enough. I, well, I have to go panhandle maybe. So, next question. Freddy Fazbear, you ever heard of Freddy Fazbear?

• 1:25:55Wes Larson?

  No.

• 1:25:55Mike Smith?

  Is the titular antagonist of what hit franchise of video games that was recently adapted as a movie?

• 1:26:02Wes Larson?

  Uh, Five Nights at Freddy's.

• 1:26:04Mike Smith?

  Oh, you got it. I'm actually surprised you got that one.

• 1:26:06Wes Larson?

  I'm four of six right now.

• 1:26:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah, so, final question. Banjo, the star of the hit platforming Nintendo sixty-four game, carries his bird friend around in his blue backpack. What is this bird's name?

• 1:26:19Wes Larson?

  Kazooie.

• 1:26:20Mike Smith?

  Hey, you got it. You knew that, dude. I'm.

• 1:26:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:23Mike Smith?

  I'm surprised pleasantly, but you, man, you've

• 1:26:28Wes Larson?

  125 bucks?

• 1:26:29Mike Smith?

  You got me. Yeah, I'm broke, but in a good way. So just let me know what charity you want me to donate to.

• 1:26:35Wes Larson?

  Let's do Grizzly Bear Foundation. I sit on their board. I know how they spend their money. They do a great job with it.

• 1:26:40Jeff Larson?

  Oh, so you're just gonna pocket it?

• 1:26:42Wes Larson?

  No, I don't get any money. I'm not paid to sit on their board. It's a volunteer position. But they're based out of Canada. They do some great work for Grizzly Bear Conservation, especially in British Columbia. So let's go with them.

• 1:26:55Mike Smith?

  That money is just gonna go to buy you flights to your next convention, probably.

• 1:26:59Wes Larson?

  It's not.

• 1:26:59Mike Smith?

  Set you up in a five star hotel. Okay. Well, that's it for the quiz. Good job, Wes. I'm glad.

• 1:27:04Wes Larson?

  Thanks.

• 1:27:05Mike Smith?

  I'm glad to contribute a little bit to Grizzly Foundation or whatever it's called.

• 1:27:08Wes Larson?

  Grizzly Bear Foundation, yeah.

• 1:27:10Mike Smith?

  Last category. How much do we like Hugh Glass? Hugh Jazz?

• 1:27:14Wes Larson?

  I like him a lot.

• 1:27:16Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. I don't think I would wanna be his friend, though.

• 1:27:20Wes Larson?

  He tells some good stories, like you.

• 1:27:22Jeff Larson?

  I would love to get a beer with him.

• 1:27:25Wes Larson?

  Yeah, he's probably not gonna be like really kind. Yeah.

• 1:27:28Jeff Larson?

  I, you know, I'll take that back.

• 1:27:30Wes Larson?

  People said that he kinda was. Yeah.

• 1:27:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, and like he'd just have, yeah, you're right. He'd just have like a new story for you all the time. Show you some cool shit, probably.

• 1:27:41Mike Smith?

  He would leave you to get poked by needles and burned, and then he would pull out the powder and save his own bacon. But that's like, you know.

• 1:27:49Jeff Larson?

  I don't think he would like ever introduce me to girls.

• 1:27:55Mike Smith?

  That's your parameters of what a good friend is.

• 1:27:59Jeff Larson?

  I'm just talking it out.

• 1:28:00Mike Smith?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:28:01Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna give him. You're my best friend. You've never introduced me to a girl.

• 1:28:05Wes Larson?

  That's true. I'm gonna give him eight claws. I think he's probably like one of the toughest people ever. He's probably got some of the best stories of anyone you ever meet. But then he loses some claws for probably doing some pretty bad shit throughout his life. Like if you're both a pirate and a fur trapper in the, you know, or 1800s, like you're, you're doing some stuff that's really bad without a doubt. And I just, I think that just kinda comes with the territory. Yeah. So I, I'll do eight claws.

• 1:28:36Mike Smith?

  That's what I was feeling too.

• 1:28:38Jeff Larson?

  I'll give him nine. I like they just loved his gun more than he loved people.

• 1:28:44Mike Smith?

  I do like that. It's really endearing to just read all the accounts of him, just like. He's got this beautiful Kentucky flintlock rifle, just everywhere he went, it was his best friend. He just wanted it back. I like that. I actually like that version of the story more than the revenge angle. The revenge is kind of like, it's more like sensational, but-

• 1:29:05Jeff Larson?

  I like the idea that he like wanted to kill Fitzgerald until he got his gun back. And then like, all that anger just left him.

• 1:29:14Mike Smith?

  Like, this is all I ever needed.

• 1:29:16Wes Larson?

  You just see like the tension run out of his body, his wounds heal, the sense of wrath is gone.

• 1:29:23Mike Smith?

  Like King Theoden after Saruman gets cast out.

• 1:29:26Wes Larson?

  Exactly.

• 1:29:28Mike Smith?

  Well, that's it for the Hugh Glass story. Again, we're going to be talking more about him in an upcoming episode. We're going to do a movie review of The Revenant and we're going to get into, I tried to keep it a little more factual based, so I didn't get into the more kind of like crazy anecdotal stories that were told about him. But that's coming. We're going to get, we're going to get a little more grisly, a little more detailed about some of these encounters he had in that movie, I'm sure. So, look forward to that.

• 1:29:54Wes Larson?

  And that, that's a movie where people often ask me like, how good is this attack scene? So I'm going to take some time to really break it down and talk about how good or not good it might be. So I'm excited for that.

• 1:30:04Jeff Larson?

  Subscribe, because it's going to be good.

• 1:30:06Wes Larson?

  No, that's going to be, it's going to be a wide-

• 1:30:08Jeff Larson?

  No, that's going to be me. Don't subscribe.

• 1:30:10Mike Smith?

  Unsubscribe.

• 1:30:12Wes Larson?

  Yeah. We are, we're trying, because we're weekly, we're kind of experimenting with new formats for episodes. So that's going to be a movie review episode on our main feed.

• 1:30:22Jeff Larson?

  Well, thank you everyone for listening. Mike, great job.

• 1:30:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:26Jeff Larson?

  If you want to listen on our subscription episodes, Wes just did the emo, emo wars.

• 1:30:36Mike Smith?

  The MCR fans, first Fall Out Boy fans.

• 1:30:38Jeff Larson?

  Taken back Sunday and brand new when they had their feud going, no, his emus in Australia. And they wreaked some havoc on some farmers and it was really interesting.

• 1:30:50Wes Larson?

  It's a whole war against them. Yeah.

• 1:30:52Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:54Wes Larson?

  Alright. Yeah, thanks guys. Thanks, Mike. That was a fun episode.

• 1:30:57Mike Smith?

  Yeah, thanks for helping me.

• 1:30:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah. All right. We'll see you later. Love you.

• 1:31:02Jeff Larson?

  Love you, guys.