Carrot Top | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Billy Corgan chats with Carrot Top about the evolution of his unique brand of comedy, tracing the path from a shy kid fascinated by joke structure to a veteran headliner with nearly two decades on the Las Vegas stage. Carrot Top describes the early challenges of being dismissed by club owners and even his own father, as well as the thrill and pressure of eventually selling out theaters and perfecting an act that combines classic stand-up with show-stopping visual flair. Their conversation explores the delicate balance between chasing approval, embracing creative freedom, and finding genuine joy in making people laugh, while also reflecting on the comedic influences that shaped Carrot Top’s persona—most notably the legendary Gallagher—and how that mentorship evolved into a mutual respect marked by occasional tension. Watch The Magnificent Others on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BillyCorganTMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:08Billy Corgan?

  Well, you do have a unique seat in that you see America as it probably really is. You get that cross section every night.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, we get everybody, everybody. Even Louisiana, even Louisiana comedy. I said, show and tell with liquor. That's what I am. You go to a comedy club and I got to show you.

• 1:25Billy Corgan?

  Sponsored by, is that why that's part of the show?

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of.

• 1:27Billy Corgan?

  You're naked, you're jacked and there's just a carrot.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Just a carrot. Top this, that's the name of the special right there. There you go, top this.

• 1:37Billy Corgan?

  I spent about two hours this morning sort of deep diving into your life, so.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:43Billy Corgan?

  It was intense at like 6:30 AM. I'm in your world. Yeah, I had a show.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had a show.

• 1:49Billy Corgan?

  How'd your show go?

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Great crowd last night. It was like one of those just, we call it road show, which is where we're going on the road. But when you ever have a road show, they're always just, they had, you know, carrot top shirts on.

• 2:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, like a vibe.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  True fans and I'm meeting great, a whole bunch of, you know, just, and I had my brother, my cousin there.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  It was a. About four or five comedians, because they're in town for that comedy festival, so. You know, it's fun working in front of your peers.

• 2:15Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  I tell Maff, it's the worst thing in the world when you have to do a show in front of like, other comics, you know.

• 2:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Because all you think about the whole time is they're judging me.

• 2:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Actually, I have a bit in there about, about being judged by comedians.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27Billy Corgan?

  I swear to God.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 2:29Billy Corgan?

  The other night when we were playing somewhere, Josh Fries, the great drummer who's recently been playing with Foo Fighters, was on the side of the stage. And Jimmy Chamberlain, about the third song, kind of goes in a little bit of a drum solo. And I looked at Jack, the bass player, and I was like, here we go.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:48Billy Corgan?

  Because there's a great drummer on the side of the stage, so you're gonna get A-level.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, literally. Geez, yeah, nothing worse, right?

• 2:56Billy Corgan?

  So when you're working in front of other comedians, you must get that heightened sense of like.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  You do, yeah. Or any other performer.

• 3:01Billy Corgan?

  Does that throw you off?

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Even, I don't know if it throws, now I'm an old bastard, but like, I try to get into.

• 3:05Billy Corgan?

  You say you're an old bastard?

• 3:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I am. I'm older than you, so I'm older. But I've gotten better, calmed down in, in performing at, at any level of who's out there. You know, when Queen came, or Rod Stewart, Elton John, whoever came to the show, you're like, oh, man, if you ever think it, you kind of, I don't know, it's just, so you just, I just do, do my show, don't think about who's out there, and then it usually works out for the best.

• 3:28Billy Corgan?

  But isn't it funny, like, obviously I'm not doing bits, but, you know, you do something, like, for my case, it'd be something on the guitar, and you're thinking, I bet Rod Stewart thought that was good.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:38Billy Corgan?

  You do that weird, like.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  No, I, no, I, last night I had a bunch of comics in the, in the room, and I, and I did, I mean, I did a really, it was a couple of really good stand-up jokes. It wasn't a prop. One was a good prop, it was a brand-new, you know, P. Diddy joke. And it finally, it just leveled, but, and it was, there was just one in particular, like a stand-up joke. And I could hear them, you know, comics always, ah, that's how comics laugh, right? They don't laugh, they just go, ah, that's how comics.

• 4:01Billy Corgan?

  They don't really laugh?

• 4:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 4:03Billy Corgan?

  Isn't it a recognition, isn't it a recognition kind of?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Any comic, because they always go, ah, and then that means, they liked it, and that means they're gonna, they're probably gonna steal it from me. No, most comics don't like if you do like Jay Leno or Bill Maher or anybody you do a thing to. Now, Bill Maher will laugh because he's stoned. He's out of his mind, high as a kite. So, he's a good audience. He'll laugh at everything. But, you know, Howie would be like, "Ah." You know, Jay Leno, I'd say something like, "Ah."

• 4:31Billy Corgan?

  See, you're triggering a memory because I once got in a fight with Jerry Seinfeld over professional wrestling.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 4:36Billy Corgan?

  I was at a private dinner. It was Gwyneth Paltrow, Jerry Seinfeld, and some other people. And, you know, this is one of those New York dinners where you're just next to somebody who isn't necessarily interested in you, but they know you're famous. And of course, I know who Jerry Seinfeld is. So, at some point, somebody brought up my interest in professional wrestling. And he goes, "Ah, why into professional wrestling?" And we got in this argument at the table over it. And I basically bested him.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Punched him.

• 5:03Billy Corgan?

  Well, no, I mean, I'm not a wallflower and, you know, I have some level of verbal acumen. And I basically kind of, for lack of a better word, I ran circles around him because he thought, his take on wrestling was very, like, you know, the typical American version.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:19Billy Corgan?

  And I gave a very historical kind of rendering of the whole thing. So, fast forward, I'm at the Indy 500. I got the pit pass. I'm all important. And I'm walking. And here comes Jerry Seinfeld. And he looks at me and goes, "Ah, guys like you back here, huh?" You know what I mean?

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:34Billy Corgan?

  So, when you said it.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  That triggered, that triggered, "Ah."

• 5:37Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, usually they just laugh. That comedy show, "Ah," but that's in the back of the room of the comedy club. You just hear, "Ah," because that's comics laughing. Because people, I'd say to me, like, "That was funny." I said, "No," or you say, "Oh, that's funny." And they said, "He didn't laugh." I'm like, "No, that's how I laugh. That's funny."

• 5:52Billy Corgan?

  So, full disclosure.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  But I laugh. I just watched George Carlin on the plane. And I was laughing out loud. I was, "Jesus," I mean, it was just, it was a great bit. You haven't noticed how many stupid people there are on the planet. I mean, stupid people. And it just goes on. You just sit there and you look, you start talking to the guy and you're like... This guy's stupid. It's how he does it. It's just brilliant. And then there's people that are full of [BLEEP]. And he does that whole, he looks into it for a minute, and all of a sudden you just go, "This guy's full of [BLEEP]!" And it's just a brilliant bit. It's just brilliant.

• 6:23Billy Corgan?

  So he got a laugh?

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he got a laugh. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't go, "Ah!" I was like, "Ah!"

• 6:26Billy Corgan?

  I was gonna ask you this later, but I'm gonna ask you it now. So, to your point, is, I've known a few professional comedians in my life. And, you know, I like to think I'm a little funny, but-

• 6:38Speaker 02

  You are funny.

• 6:39Billy Corgan?

  Well, thank you. Professionally endorsed. But, the thing is, is, when you make a joke around a professional comedian, they tend not to laugh.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Yes, it's true. Well, I want-

• 6:49Billy Corgan?

  To your point. Because I made one joke to you the other day, and you went like-

• 6:53Speaker 02

  No, I was probably thinking when you did it, I said, "I'm thinking."

• 6:56Billy Corgan?

  Like, is it a good bit?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Usually, honestly, I'm not a joke. I think comics never really enjoy anything. They just, they observe, and then they write it down as soon as they can write it down.

• 7:04Billy Corgan?

  Well, there is that rep that most comedians are miserable, and they use comedy as some way to interface with the world. I'm not asking you that question. I don't see you that way.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm not, though. But there are friends, a lot of friends of mine that are miserable people. They are. And, there was, funny you say Seinfeld. There was a thing, just literally, last night, on, him and Jim Gaffigan were on a little panel thing, and he was talking exactly about that. He said, "My kids ask me all the time, 'Does anything make you happy?'" Because he's just, you know, at Seinfeld, and he's with his kids, and he said, "I was in the car, and the couple didn't work. He's just cranky, wants to go, 'Do you really like your job?'" And so, "Yeah, I don't know." I, I've never had that issue. When, when Robin Williams passed away, everyone in the world reached out to, to me, like, everyone, like-

• 7:48Billy Corgan?

  To get your comment?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  To get my, well, to not only get my, you know, did I know him, but they, but they wanted to know, "Are all comedians sad and miserable people?"

• 7:57Billy Corgan?

  Because of the way he took his life?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Right. And I said, "No, everyone's different." And he was also battling some, some health issues. So it wasn't, he had a lot of things going on. I had met him, and he was very, very sweet, and very funny, and very everything. But, no, not, not every comic is a miserable, you know? People say that probably about, you know, musicians, too. Are they ever gonna get a million? They've gone stage, they're not nice after, offstage? I don't know. There's a persona with every kind of people.

• 8:20Billy Corgan?

  Well, if there's a common- If there's a commonality with musicians is that they're sociopaths. So, I don't, is there a common psychological trait to...

• 8:30Speaker 02

  They're probably comics, absolutely, there's some psychological thing.

• 8:33Billy Corgan?

  Is there a word for it?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  We're just [bleep] nuts, but, you know, it's like, but you're right, comics are always just thinking a bit, no matter what is happening, in a comic's day, from lunch to end to whatever, he's thinking of a bit. And that's true for any comic.

• 8:50Billy Corgan?

  So, I thought to start here, in personal life, do you prefer to be called Scott or Carrot Top?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I like Queen Latifah, but it's been taken.

• 9:02Billy Corgan?

  Why do I feel you've used that bit before?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Was it too good?

• 9:05Billy Corgan?

  It was too good, it was a little too...

• 9:07Speaker 02

  It was too rehearsed, it was too crisp. I love Scott, you know, and now that I, you know, I've been Scott my whole life, but I remember, you know, before the internet and all that, you know, Scott, and then I got, you know, Scott Thompson, and there was a Scott Thompson Kids of the Hall, Scott Thompson. And I said, well, I knew him, but I said, also, I can't be Scott Thompson, that's not a show business, I came, hey, you know, just Carrot Top came out of the, so I...

• 9:34Billy Corgan?

  You could've done the thing where they added an initial, like Scott L. Thompson.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Scott C., Scott Christopher Thompson, I could've. But for some reason, I was thinking like a brand and a thing, I didn't want to be, I wanted to be something like, I, like, I always thought the Rolling Stones' tongue and the Grateful Dead's steel, I wanted to be like, literally like a brand.

• 9:52Speaker 02

  And I thought, Carrot, I don't know if I did Carrot Top, I did it, and one of my favorite things ever happened with being, being as a brand and what you call it. I, I was on an airplane, and when you, when you boarded, we boarded from the middle, so when I came up to sit down, the guy in front of me was already sitting. And there was this, all I saw was this big, big thing of hair and a ball cap, and for, I don't know, it was just an hour flight, I literally kept saying, that looks like Steven Wright, just the back of his head. You know, I didn't know, that looks like Steven Wright, and we land, and a bong, and he gets up, and he looks right at me, I go, Jesus Christ. I said, I, I, I'm like, I thought that was you from, I can even know what you look from the back of your head. And he just kind of, you know, he's, he's beyond one of my favorite people as far as comic.

• 10:35Billy Corgan?

  He was funny as fuck.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  He's still good, and I just said, oh my God, like, and he goes, hey, how are you, and he's just like that in real life, and I, and it's not a character, so he said, um, hey, um... What do you, you have a show here? And I said, yeah. He says, yeah, I have a show here too. And I said, wanna grab a cup of coffee? Or a drink? Or a bite to eat? And he said, I'd love that. Where are you playing? I'm at MGM Grand. And he said, you're under, is it, Scott? I said, Scott Thompson? He goes, yeah. I said, but I'm under an alias. And he said, you are an alias. Brilliant. He said, would I just call your room? And I said, yeah. But I'm under an alias. And he says, you are an alias. And I said, I am an alias. Like, that was so, and he was quick. He didn't rehearse that. He's just, he's brilliant.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Brilliant mind. So, but that's because the internet, they put out Scott Thompson. And I'm like, oh, you know, people are gonna go look up Scott Thompson. So I just checked in under, the old joke is I'd check under use and no one would bother me. No one called me. That's the old joke.

• 11:35Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Here's where we get theoretical.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:38Billy Corgan?

  I guarantee you, no one's ever taken you down this particular path.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Shut, here we go.

• 11:42Billy Corgan?

  Well, so you're a comedian. You can joke your way out of whatever rhapsody you see. Are you familiar with the, you know, in the world of symbols and avatars and mythological characters? Are you aware of the Harlequin character or the Perot character?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  A Harlequin, yeah.

• 11:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. To me, it took me a hot second because we just met recently. But I think that's your archetype. And I think that's where people don't understand, let's call it, the real brilliance of your comedy. People tend to go to the easy part. So when they sort of throw out, oh, he's a prop comedian. Which to me, sounds like a weird slur. I don't know enough about comedy, but I feel like you're way more than that guy.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Well, I am, and I appreciate, but what's funny is I've never been offended really by when someone says a prop comic until if they deny, or describe it that particular way, like you're saying. So, we had a comics, I told you last night, we had some comics at the show. And it was the first, literally, the first thing out of this guy's mouth is like, holy, you don't even do, like, I do props. You saw the show. But I do it about 40 minutes out of the hour and something. Maybe more than that now, just stand up, pure stand up. I don't, I don't grab a prop for over 40 minutes. And I just do like stand-up and stories and he was blown away. He says, "I've never seen you, that sight of you."

• 12:58Billy Corgan?

  But you know what?

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Anyone that, sorry.

• 13:00Billy Corgan?

  But I think part of that is, is when I saw you a lot on TV, you know, when you were on TV a lot, well, you, you, you had three minutes.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  That's exactly right.

• 13:09Billy Corgan?

  So it was a lot of like-

• 13:10Speaker 02

  I would beg them to let me do a story and they said, "No, you're carrot top. You gotta do the, you gotta do the stuff."

• 13:14Billy Corgan?

  So, so when I saw you the other night in Vegas, I didn't know you had this other gear, cause I'd never seen it.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 13:21Billy Corgan?

  So I was like, "Holy-"

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is a whole other side, yeah.

• 13:24Billy Corgan?

  "Mother of God, this guy's funny." Cause to me, bits are bits.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 13:28Billy Corgan?

  It's like, there's a cleverness to it. In, in music, we call it gags. You know, like, you know, "I'm the guy who does this gag," or whatever.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Right, sure, sure.

• 13:37Billy Corgan?

  And I'm not saying Eddie Van Halen. I'm saying, you know, just people have gags.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Right, sure.

• 13:40Billy Corgan?

  Uh, people like in free market capitalist societies, they look for an advantage. "I'm the guy who, you know, I stand on my head and play the guitar," or whatever.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Right, right, exactly.

• 13:49Billy Corgan?

  So, in my, in my innocence, I thought that was your thing.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:54Billy Corgan?

  You were that guy.

• 13:57Billy Corgan?

  Like, you know, Gallagher was one of your heroes and we'll talk about him in a second, but, you know, I saw enough of him on PBS or wherever they were to show him, where I knew he was more than the guy who just crashed a watermelon. You knew he was a funny guy.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  I've been trying really, really hard now that I'm in this stage of my career to, to put out something, whether it be a documentary style or even doing these shows, like these podcasts, is to show the other side, cause they've always-

• 14:20Billy Corgan?

  I literally, I literally have a note here that you should do a documentary.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're, we're talking about it. And, uh, like, seriously talking about it. Absolutely, yes.

• 14:28Billy Corgan?

  I wanna be in your documentary.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Oh, you, you will be. I'm, I'm making this up.

• 14:31Billy Corgan?

  Maybe I can even like, uh, write a theme song or something.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:35Billy Corgan?

  How's your singing voice?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 14:41Billy Corgan?

  Auto-tune, we'll just, we'll get that.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I can do, I can do like, country, you know, I, I'll sing, uh, country songs. People are like, "Damn, you're a pretty good singer." I'm like, "Yeah, cause I'm just doing, you know, I do the dope beast voice and do the thing, but I don't have a, I don't have a voice, no." But every comic can sing to a degree, right?

• 14:55Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Like, you have to sing to a degree, right? Every comic would do like a, which brings me up, I should, I should, uh, I should tell you, I can tell you something about musical like Gene Simmons, so- I met Gene many years ago and I believe when I was at the porn convention, I was a presenter.

• 15:11Billy Corgan?

  You didn't want to be there, but?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  I didn't, and I really didn't, and it's like, you know, best, best, you know.

• 15:16Billy Corgan?

  How do I know it's called the AVNs?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  AVN, yes, right, because you're a creep too. So, it's, uh, so AVNs, I go up there and I'm literally presenting.

• 15:24Billy Corgan?

  Sorry.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  And you know who I?

• 15:25Billy Corgan?

  The joke is still landing.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  And who I bring up is the, is, um...

• 15:31Billy Corgan?

  Miss Anal?

• 15:32Speaker 02

  I did cocaine, I did cocaine on a plane, was, uh, the, uh, uh, the, uh, the band. That's a big hit. I did cocaine on a plane, you know? The guy weighs eighty pounds, I'm standing, I'm like, oh my god, I bring him up. And then they like, ah, they do the song, they bring me up and I, I do my bit. And I literally said, you know, best, best anal, you know, Susan and the family's like, oh my god, we're so proud of you. I'm like, our daughter? And I was like, this is like real shit, right? And they, seriously. And I'm like, god, we're so proud of our daughter, she's got best anal. I'm making kind of a joke about it and then Gene Simmons comes by and he's like, uh, he says, uh, you know, they were filming his show. And he says, uh, you are very funny, I like, because I, I don't know, and I said, uh, do you have a show tonight? And I said, yeah.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  And he says, uh, do you mind if I come? And I said, no, I, how many you want to come? He's like, I have my, look at my crew. And I said, well, I don't, we're not gonna be able to get the whole crew. Couldn't they film? And I said, well, I don't know, I asked my people, I said, Gene Simmons wants to film the show. And I had a whole kiss bit in the show, which he didn't even, wasn't aware of. And it was like all the kiss heads on these spring heads and it would get, it was a great bit. And so he comes and he just becomes best friends, he comes backstage, we're having the best time in the world. And he says, uh, you, you, you were like, you know, brilliant. And I said, oh, well, you know. He says, no, I, I never would guess like you're actually, you know, I, your, your show was... And I said, what do you, what do you do besides comedy to, to make money?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  And I'm thinking to myself like, he knows, no, I do this for like a living, like this is my full-time job, like... So I said, you know, I work, I do like weekends at Subway and something. He goes, no, no, I know. Like I, I have a residency, like this is what I do, I don't do another job. And he said, uh, no, I mean, like, like to make money. Like, do you have any of your fingers in it? Like, like me, like I have, I am Andy. And I said, yeah, you know, the money symbol, I own that. And I said, oh, my, well, I don't have that, I don't have any of that. He says, see, you need to give him some, something that you can make money when you're not doing this.

• 17:34Billy Corgan?

  So he's talking to branding?

• 17:35Speaker 02

  Right, and he says, and he said, well, he loved the fact that I was, he says, you, you were brilliant, your brand, it's a carrot top, it's the, you have a logo and it's, you are a brand. So I just said to him, well, I make money, um, not a lot of money, but I said, when I made up the, I made a jingle. And I made a lot of money that, but kind of for, for a couple of years, but, you know, I still get checks for it, but it was just a dumb thing, it was a contest. And it was for a deodorant, and my buddy and I, he has a guitar and a, and a piano, and it was, it's true, it was in Florida. And they're asking for people to come up with a, like a, a jingle, like a Barry Manilow did for Band-Aids or something, right? So we came up by Menon. And he's, he's like, what?

• 18:16Speaker 02

  And I said, yeah, my, we just sent it in and we won, and we won the thing, it was like, by Menon. And that, and I, they paid me for, I don't know, for, I still get checks or whatever. He said, how the hell did you come up with that? And I said, I don't know, it's just like you come up with the song, we just, they had the brand and we just said, by Menon. And he's like, that's unbelievable. And I said, and then one other thing I did was, um, with certs. They had, they had something they were trying to, and I'm a marketing major, so they were trying to come up with a way to rebrand certs. And I said, why don't they come up with some stupid thing like Now with Retson? And he said, you're [__] with me, right? And I said, no. I go, I can't do James, I go.

• 18:59Billy Corgan?

  He sat in that very chair.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  You're [__] with me, yes? And I said, yes. And he goes, okay, but the by Menon. I said, no, the whole thing's [__] bullshit. I had him for 25 minutes, thinking that I came up with by Menon and search the Retson, and I mean 20 minutes. He was literally like, you are brilliant, how did you come up with that thing?

• 19:18Billy Corgan?

  I'm not being facetious, well, what's the point of that story?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Because he, I had him, just, he would [__] with me so much that I just had him, like, I'm gonna get him back and I'm gonna think that I'm this brilliant guy that came up with by Menon, and he, he wanted to like. Be like a business partner with me.

• 19:33Billy Corgan?

  What's that story say about you?

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Oh, because I'm just being a [BLEEP]. I was just, you know, my crew's back there like, what are you doing? I'm like, just play along with it. And I'm not normally that kind of guy.

• 19:42Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  But he's just that, he's that kind of, he'd put salt in my drink when I'm not looking and just think it's hilarious, you know?

• 19:48Billy Corgan?

  He is a child.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:50Billy Corgan?

  Back to my point.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:51Billy Corgan?

  You as Harlequin.

• 19:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:54Billy Corgan?

  The illumination in my mind was, here's a person who's very funny, but is incaustic. I think your comedy, and you even say during your show, I just want people to have a good time. Is that, am I paraphrasing that right?

• 20:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:09Billy Corgan?

  You just want to make people laugh, but you're not trying to hurt anybody's feelings.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and I try to send that message to all the holes to the show.

• 20:14Billy Corgan?

  You say some things in your show that are sort of positive, like, hey, like, it's just, let's just.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's all about love, and it's all, it really is. I mean, and I pick on like, including myself more than anyone else in the show, which is funny. When people watch the show, they see the self-deprecation part of it, which is every comic, you know?

• 20:30Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  That's what makes you funny, you know? Last night, a comic came back, he said, I loved the star search bit. And I said, he said, that was so funny, I thought you'd won it. And I said, well, why would I play it if I won it? It wouldn't be funny in the show if I said, hey, now watch me when I win star search. And they're like, what's the punchline to it? You know, what's funny is, I lost.

• 20:48Billy Corgan?

  But, but I guess where the Harlequin thing kicked in is, is your self-image, the way you dress. I'm not saying it's conscious or unconscious, but I'm saying you've sort of turned yourself into a Harlequin, like, character. And, and I think where it's hard for us to understand in American culture is, it's sort of an out, not outmoded character, but it's not a character that's readily present in our culture. Does that land on an intellectual level?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 21:13Billy Corgan?

  This is where you go, hi.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  No, it's playful, it's playful, it's fun, it's artsy.

• 21:17Billy Corgan?

  Okay, good.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, and it's, and it's unique in a sense that like, it fits my, my whole act, like, my act. I go back to my, my first show, my first show on television, I was already that. I had my crazy hair and rainbows and everything, and it was like 1985. And, you know, people are like, wow, you, like, I've always, I've always stayed the same. But the show's changed and evolved, and I've changed and evolved, and, you know?

• 21:45Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  To a degree, but yes.

• 21:47Billy Corgan?

  The reason I'm after this is because, part of the reason I want to do a show like this is, is I really want to understand what makes people tick, because I like the connection between, let's call it... A critical self-awareness, even if it's intuitive, leading to success.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:03Billy Corgan?

  And then even when there isn't success, how that character sort of navigates.

• 22:09Billy Corgan?

  And in your case, I think it's really interesting because I feel like in trying to do research to interview you, and the lazy version would be to, you know, do the greatest hits like people do with me. But I found there wasn't a lot of information about, let's call it, your inner life. And I'm not saying that you want to talk about it at great length, but I think it's fascinating that someone who's been as successful as you have been and as successful, as long as you've been successful, which is really impressive, there's not a lot of information about sort of your inner world. Is that purposeful, or you think people just don't get it?

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Um, a little bit of both, interesting, yeah. I don't really do, I don't, I just started doing a lot more in my show, as you saw just a couple nights ago, where there's kind of a retrospective part of my family and my, my, my career. And I go back to, you know, being and how I got into comedy and how people inspired me certain comedians.

• 23:02Billy Corgan?

  So that's a recent kind of addition?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I started becoming a little bit more comfortable on stage just telling a story. I was always Carrot Top, and it had to be, like you were saying, watching me on The Tonight Show or any other show, they would, they would say, no, no, no, no, just the props. And I'd say, well, I have this really fun story about, you know, on a plane or whatever. And they would say, that's not what people, they tune in to see you with all the gags. So it would take other things like this, or, you know, I remember doing, like, the Charlie Rose Show, one of those kind of things where you just sat at a desk and people were just blown away, like, you know, like a Larry King kind of style show where they would say, well, I've never seen Carrot Top talk. You know, they just see you in this, in this, in this crazy stage, you know, with all the gadgets, but it was fun to show behind the scenes.

• 23:48Billy Corgan?

  Is it, is it one of those, because I get this on the other side, which is like... People who are into rock stars really don't want to know that the rock star is a nerd.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 23:57Billy Corgan?

  They want to stick with the image.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Right, right, yeah.

• 23:59Billy Corgan?

  Is it because most people really aren't that interested in a comic's inner life?

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know.

• 24:04Billy Corgan?

  Or, or?

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Well...

• 24:06Billy Corgan?

  Or, or, or has there been a part of you that's been reluctant to share your inner life?

• 24:11Speaker 02

  Again, going back to, it just, it wasn't reluctance as much as it was just not being comfortable and to, um, to share it. But I do a lot of things in the show now that are just quick, one liner references that people are kind of like, huh. Like, like, I'm kind of a mystery to people. I don't have a, I don't, I've never been in trouble. Well, I am, you know, the night's young, but, you know. Uh, I've never had anything like, you know, it's just, who is, you know, it's almost a good name for the documentary. Like, who the f**k really is Carrot Top? Because no one knows me. No one knows me.

• 24:40Billy Corgan?

  Let me add my, my piece of kindling to that fire.

• 24:46Billy Corgan?

  I always found you interesting, but to me, and because it's a generational thing, you being 59, me being 57, you're always kind of there, but kind of over there. You know, I'm in music and, you know, I'm sure you are. It's like you get very focused in your world.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 25:03Billy Corgan?

  And, uh, so before I walked through the door the other night to see you play at the Luxor,

• 25:10Billy Corgan?

  I had one version of you, right? And it wasn't good or bad. It was, I mean, I've had the show, so obviously it's positive.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:17Billy Corgan?

  But that version of you is so small to the version that I saw on stage.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Well, hopefully in a good way.

• 25:23Billy Corgan?

  No, I was, I was blown away.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  I have one version too, and I don't like the version I have.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  No, I appreciate that because I think honestly, and I, and I, and I only because I get it from people that come to the show.

• 25:36Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Is that's the number one thing people always say when they come to the show, or I, or they write on the thing, or they come, or write me letters. They, they, they, one, they had more fun, and they say it to you, which, you know, it's funny. But, you know, I never liked you, but I loved the show. Oh my God, like, I'm a huge fan now. My wife didn't want to come, but we reluctantly, I drug her in, oh my God, tell her, oh my God, it was the best, I don't know why I never liked you. And then they come and they, they see the show and they're like, this is nothing what I thought it would be. So it's a compliment, but it's like, how do you get that out to people that are haters of me? You just have to keep doing it.

• 26:10Billy Corgan?

  I'm not, I'm not trying to be like...

• 26:11Speaker 02

  Not hater, but you know me, like, aren't, don't quite get what the whole thing, even the comics that were friends of mine last night were like,

• 26:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Scott, you have like... You have a really, that's a really good thing you're doing, like it's really polished and it's stand-up was like, it's real stand-up. I'm like, well, I'm a real stand-up, but they don't think that.

• 26:28Billy Corgan?

  Well, working backwards, I saw someone who's a master at his craft. So that blows me away because I just know how hard that is, you know, the 10,000 hours bit. It takes a lot of, like, if you remember, when I came back, I was asking you about your pacing.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 26:43Billy Corgan?

  Cause I saw you turn, you come out real hot.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 26:45Billy Corgan?

  And I saw you turn the pacing down, just like I would play a slow song in the middle of a set.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  There's a method.

• 26:49Billy Corgan?

  And you were like, oh yeah, totally conscious. And it's like, okay, so I'm not crazy. I saw this man, I saw you working. It's hard to explain. I'm not saying you're puppeting yourself, but

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:58Billy Corgan?

  it requires a level of mastery to control your, what people see and you're back here kind of pulling the levers.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 27:06Billy Corgan?

  But the other thing I thought, and it was shocking to me was, not only did I have an overly small impression, and I don't mean small that I saw you as diminished, I mean, the version that I think of you now versus the version I walked through the doors like this to this, right?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Not a little bit bigger? Yeah, a little bit.

• 27:25Billy Corgan?

  But I also thought it was fascinating that here's this man in plain sight, you know, 18 years at the Luxor. And, and yet the American public doesn't really understand how good you are at your job. And I thought that's really weird. I think it says more about our culture than it says about you, but on some level, you must have contributed to it.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, the people that know, that know, know, you know, that's why they come back. They're like, you know, this guy's good. People that, you know, I sometimes just recently said, you know, all the people that have been my fans and the first timers. It's a lot of first timers and it's, it's awesome that we get newcomers that like, what is this carrot top thing? You know, cause it's just been around for so long. They're gonna, alright, let me, fuck, we're here.

• 28:09Billy Corgan?

  Do you feel, do you feel, cause I, I certainly have a bit of this, is you feel like in, in your quest to seek recognition early that you, maybe you presented a hyper-realized version of yourself that created an impression that wasn't false, but it wasn't, it wasn't as wide or as true as you are now.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:27Billy Corgan?

  Do you think you contributed to that?

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:30Billy Corgan?

  Is that just pure ambition or was it, or is it born of some level of insecurity?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Probably a little bit of both. Definitely, definitely insecurity.

• 28:39Billy Corgan?

  Is it if I'm not this guy, they won't love me?

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Or, yeah, to a degree. There's all that. I mean, that's what's weird about it. There's so many emotions and things that go through. Overprocessing it too, like of course, you know, the insecurities. I mean, you're a comic, you're insecure. I don't know, I'm as much the rock bands. I'm not in a rock band, but there's all those things you're thinking about. Even all the way through the career, forget the first time you're on, even last night. Yeah, and you want to, you want to, you want it to be the best they've ever seen because if they have seen the show, it's great. Or like before, people, they meet and greet before, you know, we saw you 12 times and man, the last, it's the best show ever.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  You want to make sure it's, you know, and they leave the property and they're like, man, that, I, we, he's still got it, kind of thing. Or, you know, I mean, like, oh, he's not as good as it used to be, or. You know, my, my opening act, just a week ago, was coming to the show and he got, I guess, pulled over for speeding on the, behind the stadium. And this cop pulled him over and he said, you know, you know why I pulled you? He said, no, he's speeding. Where are you heading to? He said, I'm going to the Luxor, I have to go work. He says, what do you do at the Luxor? He says, I open for Carrot Top. And I said, the cop, didn't he miss a beat? He goes, Carrot Top? Jesus Christ, he's getting old, isn't he?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  And I'm like, see, don't, don't, and then Rob, don't tell me that, because now, see, now that's all I'm thinking about for the last week now. Is that everyone looks at me, and that's why I put the show on, that it's not, it's not, it's true. But it's, a lot of it is real, like it's, it's, um. I just had an interview, and I mean, it was, it just, right after, like, not even like Joe Rogan. I don't think Joe Rogan would say, are you, when are you going to retire? So it was like, just, maybe a year ago, or nine months ago, to the day, Mary Lou.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Mary Lou would know this, exactly.

• 30:30Billy Corgan?

  Mary Lou Henner.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Mary Lou Henner would know exactly the date.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  She would, she'd know exactly. It just someone said in an interview, said, well, so, um, so how long you gonna, you know, you think you're gonna keep doing this?

• 30:43Speaker 02

  And I said, "Oh, you got me for another hour as long..." And he goes, "No, no, I mean like your career, how long do you think you're gonna go?" I'm like, "Well, fuck, like, you know, retire." I mean, he's like, I said, "Do I look that bad?" And he's like, "No." I'm like, "Well, why would you ask me that?" Like, you only ask people, you don't ask young people when they get in the business. "So how long are you gonna be in it?" And they go, "I just, it's my first year, my first album." "So how long..." But they probably ask on that, though. I've seen interviews with Queen.

• 31:05Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Where they ask Freddie Mercury, like, "Well, how long..." You know, they got one album, one song out, and they're like, "Well, how long you think, you know, you're gonna take this?" He's like, "Well, I hope God did God, I hope he got, like, some more problems." "Yeah, I hope, you know, I hope so."

• 31:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  But it just, all of a sudden, that's kind of what they're asking me, like, "So, you know, how long you think you can have this thing going?" I'm like, "Well, fuck, I don't know." I mean, I'm gonna go until they won't let me go, or I'll go until I feel like I should go. You know, when I feel like I should go, I'll go.

• 31:31Billy Corgan?

  I, I think the best is yet to come for you.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  I feel that, too. I've never had more fun and confidence in my career, in my, in my stage presence and personality, and what I like to open up to the crowd with, too. I mean, I say things now that people are like, "Holy shit." And they, they don't know how to take it, you know? They, they, they do take it, but they're like, "I think this guy's like being real with us." You know, and I try to let them know, it's like, a couple of times in the show, I reference to the, to the crowd that, you know, I try to keep everything in the show real.

• 31:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Because it's more fun to tell a story that's real. Most comics, you know, of course, I embellish some of them, but there are usually stuff that's happened that makes it, like, the interview guy, "When are you gonna retire?" It just makes it fun. The lady in the plane, you know, it's like, you know, "I don't know who you are, I feel so bad," you know? It's, it's just, that's what makes it, it fun, you know? And I don't think there's been a more fun time in my career than where I'm at, as far as writing and creating, you know?

• 32:24Billy Corgan?

  Am I right in assuming that you're the product of a happy home? Is that accurate or not?

• 32:30Speaker 02

  Uh, my home now is very happy.

• 32:33Billy Corgan?

  No, I mean, your parents, yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  When I grew up? My mom and dad split when they were, when I was like 13, so it was kind of, kind of a rough start. Of course, both, my, my mom, beyond loving and just, you know, she's, she still is the sweetest woman in the world. She lives in Vegas. She's a stripper, but she's doing great. Um, uh, it's an old joke, Vegas. It's like a wooden pole, and she's got splinters when she comes, so that's how old the bar is. But, um... No, my dad was, you know, worked as a scientist at NASA. He was, he wasn't the warmest guy, you should say. I do that in the show. I even talk about that in the show where I said, "My dad didn't, my dad never hugged us. He never even, you know, barely shook our hand. He was like a dude, you know? And I'm this crazy eccentric, you know? That's why I'm the black sheep of the family.

• 33:18Billy Corgan?

  Maybe a slightly different question.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:22Billy Corgan?

  Maybe it's more what I'm after. Supportive.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  To a degree. I mean, like, but I-

• 33:28Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so where didn't it work? Where didn't the support work? They didn't get you? They didn't understand you?

• 33:32Speaker 02

  No, they, I think, I mean, I think they got me. I mean, it was that I was definitely different, you know? My brother was-

• 33:40Billy Corgan?

  The word they used to use was precocious.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Well, I was actually a really quiet, shy kid.

• 33:44Billy Corgan?

  Ah.

• 33:45Speaker 02

  I was very, literally, um-

• 33:46Billy Corgan?

  So, did you feel unseen?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  No, not really unseen, no. I just, I, I, I just-

• 33:52Billy Corgan?

  Testing my-

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I like that. No, I, I was just very quiet, never got in trouble, but I was the class, but I was the class clown, if that makes any sense. I was always the one that would tell a joke, like, but not to disrupt the class. It would just be after the, you know, school, or I'd walk up to the teacher and I'd say, and they'd say, "God, you're funny." But I wasn't like blurting out things. It was just, "You're funny." So, I'm, even when I was 12, 13, we're on, we'd have a bonfire on the beach and these cops came out and they, it was like 12, 13 of us. And the cop says, "You guys can't have a fire in the beach." And I said, "Where would you want to take us? Where should we take it? We're, we're right next to water and sand. What's the safest place to have a fire?" And it just was funny. And my friends were like, "You're witty, you're funny, you're, you're observational." And so, I had that kind of thing in me.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  And that's when I started really watching a lot of stand-up and a lot of, like, Gallagher and Carlin and then it was observational stuff that, that made me laugh. Any comic that would do something that you'd go, "Ah."

• 34:48Billy Corgan?

  I guess what I'm after is just to jump to the chase.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  But family was, I think, letting them know that I wanted to be into comedy. My, my mom was okay with it. My dad was completely not.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  I mean, it says-

• 35:00Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Like in the show, and he says, "It's not gonna [bleep] happen."

• 35:02Billy Corgan?

  You know, it's the classic psycho- psychoanalysis thing of like, behind every clown, I'm using the word liberally.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:10Billy Corgan?

  Um, there's a sort of sorrow or, or, or, you know, have you ever heard that? I'm sure you must have.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Sure, no, no, a sad guy, I mean-

• 35:17Billy Corgan?

  And I'm not, by the way, I don't see you as a sad person.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  No, but as a young, I mean, there is, there's always, I mean, you're good, because you pull it out. So if you break it down, yes, I was a really skinny, red-headed, freckled kid that lived in, on a beach. And everyone else was, you know, blond-haired, tan surfers, and I'm like this, this red-headed, freckly, skinny kid.

• 35:41Billy Corgan?

  Can I tell you a funny thing?

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yes, please, finally, please, tell me something funny.

• 35:49Billy Corgan?

  So, I was dating, uh, someone who was Australian.

• 35:54Billy Corgan?

  And, uh, you know, Australians have this thing where they shorten words, do you know that?

• 35:58Speaker 02

  No, but I-

• 35:59Billy Corgan?

  So now I'm doing Trump, you're doing Trump.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  Doing it.

• 36:02Billy Corgan?

  Shorten the words.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  I keep my words real, they don't do the short words, they do long. I made words, no one had words.

• 36:11Billy Corgan?

  And they were talking about a friend of theirs who was a redhead.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:15Billy Corgan?

  And they referred to this person as a oranga.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Ah, that's great.

• 36:19Billy Corgan?

  And I go, "What's oranga?" Orangutan.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, orangutan, yeah.

• 36:23Billy Corgan?

  I was like, wow, that's, that's stiff.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  That's stiff, yeah.

• 36:26Billy Corgan?

  Right? And of course, there's the famous South Park episode-

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:31Billy Corgan?

  About redheads.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Yes, and gingers and soulists, and, yes.

• 36:35Billy Corgan?

  So, is it born of, of, of being, of this lot? Even the other day, I saw on social media, you posted this thing, you were wearing a shirt like, Redheads United.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  A red, a club redhead or something, someone gave it to me.

• 36:46Billy Corgan?

  I need to find more of you, or something was the-

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I need more, I need to find, yeah, I need more members. Someone gave me this shirt, and I thought it was cute, Red, uh, Club Redhead. Yeah, there's, you know, I do a show, we're running out of redheads, so there's, there's no redhead at a club. And there is just like four or five people that are miserable, hanging around. But, um, yeah, going back to your, that does, so I guess, in a, in a sense, it starts out, you're not really a sad clown, but you, that's how you get, I got into, to comedy and got into being- Self-deprecating because the minute someone would pick on me, I would already pick on me. And so they had no.

• 37:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  They had no, and that's great.

• 37:22Billy Corgan?

  I read this book by, I think it was Carrie Fisher's first book that was very successful. And she talked about after being in Star Wars and being obviously famous and obviously the daughter. Parents, she put on a bunch of weight. In the book, she, she explains that she would do this thing when she would walk into a room and people would, you know, invariably look at her, oh, it's Carrie Fisher. She'd say, I know I'm fat.

• 37:46Billy Corgan?

  And I thought that was so, I got it. Like, I instantly got it because I've done that as an artist.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:52Billy Corgan?

  So I was trying to understand, like.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 37:55Billy Corgan?

  Right? Because.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  She's saying it before she knows they're all saying it.

• 37:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  And it made her feel probably, well, probably it hurts her to have to say that, but.

• 38:04Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, I was just saying that last night, literally with how these comics, I was talking about, you know, I was always, sometimes them, but not as much as the butt of the joke and your character, character. And my friends were like, you know, if anyone's never seen your show is the one that probably, and I said, well, it's true. I mean, you know, people that have seen the show, number one, and comics that know me that have done the show is what got me, you know, through things like Carlin's and Gary Shandling's and people that like friends of mine, Bill Maher, I mean, he's a friend of mine that thinks I'm funny. George Carlin said, you're funny. That's, that would be, I lived with that instead of, you know, some guy saying I wasn't funny and suck. I'm like, you know, George Carlin said I was great, you know?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Mel Brooks said I'm great. So it didn't matter that this guy Nebraska on his computer.

• 38:52Billy Corgan?

  So is it a feeling of?

• 38:53Speaker 02

  But it's still sad, it's still sadness, is what I'm saying. So when she walks in the room and says, huh, yeah, yes, I'm fat. It's kind of like, she's probably doesn't want to be fat and she's sad that she's got, she has to say that. And that's where, that's where the pain comes in and that's where, you know.

• 39:09Billy Corgan?

  But that's where the Harlequin thing is interesting.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 39:11Billy Corgan?

  Because it's, it's a tragic comic character.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 39:14Billy Corgan?

  It's not a tragic character, it's a tragic comic. It's converting in an alchemical way. Pain or displacement.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 39:22Billy Corgan?

  Or I use sometimes the idea, a feeling of otherness.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:26Billy Corgan?

  Like, why am I different?

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:28Billy Corgan?

  Like recently I did a post about, I have a birthmark, I don't know if you, no, this goes all the way up my arm.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  I saw your post.

• 39:34Billy Corgan?

  Oh, thank you. So the thing went viral, blew my mind. Because I saw a young woman, it was a model, and she has a birthmark on her face. And I commented on that, and somehow it got picked up, and you're in People Magazine. It's like one of those weird American moments.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:47Billy Corgan?

  But what I was really speaking about was like, why am I at fifty-seven still weirded out about having a birthmark? It's such a superficial thing. It obviously doesn't affect my ability to play the guitar.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:59Billy Corgan?

  And why am I still in some sort of weird psychic pain about something that doesn't have anything to do with me? It's just, I was just born that way. And obviously, our physical being and our sort of, let's call it our born personality, these inherited traits, it's what we do with them that makes us interesting or different. And I think you found a particular alchemy which is really unique. And that's why, repeating again, I had one version of you up until the other night, and then you just blew the doors off of every perception I had of you. And I realized that this is this far more vast being in there.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  It would be weird to say if I had the same feeling about you since I met you.

• 40:40Billy Corgan?

  I appreciate that.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  It's just, no kidding.

• 40:44Billy Corgan?

  Well, I appreciate that, even if it's not true.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  No, I'm being stupid. I'm saying, that's right, because I have the same, you know, here and now you're here. You're still here and here.

• 40:52Billy Corgan?

  All right, well, to feed the comic. I thought of you like this, and now I think of you like this.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Yes, thank you.

• 40:58Billy Corgan?

  Oh, sorry.

• 41:01Billy Corgan?

  I love that you talk about Gallagher on the show. And we don't have to go too deep into it, because it's really, people should see your show to really get the substance of it. But I thought it was really beautiful how you found this person that was like, it was like maybe a North Star for you? You want to just touch on that?

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Well, I'll say, it's crazy. I was a young, I was thirteen, fourteen years old, and this guy lived next door to me that was managing all these bands, like Atlanta Rhythm Section and da-da-da.

• 41:27Billy Corgan?

  I saw them once.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 41:29Billy Corgan?

  Did you?

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I was thirteen, he put me in a security, T-shirts and security. Seriously, isn't that great?

• 41:35Billy Corgan?

  We saw it literally at the same, it was when they were superheroes.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They were in Daytona Beach, and I was, he said, "You're gonna do security." I'm like thirteen, I weighed eight pounds, and anyway.

• 41:43Billy Corgan?

  Were you jacked then?

• 41:44Speaker 02

  No, yeah, no. And, no. I'm still not jacked. I mean, I'm all right. I'm okay for a comic, I guess I say. But... Anyway, so then one day, he just says, I'm doing this comedian too. And I said, I was writing, I was just trying to study comedians on The Tonight Show and whatnot. And he said, this guy named Gallagher. I said, do you want to come to his show?

• 42:08Billy Corgan?

  You've never heard of him before?

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Never heard of him, went to his show. My dad and I went, that's all true. And we went to it, and I met him. And that whole thing is kind of, I shook his hand and the whole thing was, he says, I said, I want to be a comedian. He says, alright, well, come, bring some jokes, come back next time I see you, bring some jokes. So I went back and I saw him and he says, you got any jokes? And I said, I wrote, I wrote a couple for you. And he says, you wrote me a joke? And I said, yeah. And I tell him the joke and he's like, did you write that yourself? And he says, yeah. He says, that's great. And I kind of, you know, 13, I was like, I write for Gallagher, but I was telling my friends, like, you know, I wrote a couple of jokes for this guy, you know? So then I, I kind of kept going, kept going, and there's an open mic night at my college. And he was playing in Fort Lauderdale and I went, now, and he was blowing up.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  He was playing like, you know, 6,000 seat.

• 42:57Billy Corgan?

  In that formative period, you know, 13, going into late teens, are you watching every comedian you can watch it? Are you breaking them down like an athlete breaks down tape?

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yep.

• 43:09Billy Corgan?

  Were you even videotaping them?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Yep, I have them, all VH, yeah, VHS tapes. My mom got me all the Brooks Brothers and everything from George Carlin to Bill Cosby to every comic that she could get a tape of. And I'd watch them and study them, literally study the timing and all that. And so then I went and saw Gallagher again when he was blowing, like, 7,000 seat thing.

• 43:35Billy Corgan?

  Holy cow.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  And went backstage and he said, I said, I'm doing, you know, I'm thinking about doing this thing at school.

• 43:41Billy Corgan?

  At this point, does he know you a little bit, kind of thing?

• 43:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and more, and I said, you know, I'm trying to come up with a couple of things. I'm at an open mic night. And he was like, what's some of your stuff? And I tell him, he's like, no, it's alright, it's pretty good. And then all of a sudden, I'm on The Tonight Show and I call Gary, that's the guy who's manager. I said, "Call Gary," and they were living in Hawaii.

• 44:04Billy Corgan?

  Oh, this is years later.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm like, you know, I've been doing comedy there for a while and I was telling them, "Hey, I'm doing comedy." And Gallagher's like, you know, I saw him out, he's like, "Oh, man, you're doing like clubs and..."

• 44:14Billy Corgan?

  Oh, so this is later, timeline, yeah, okay.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Right, so then I said, "I'm on The Tonight Show," and he's like, "What?" And they watched and Gary's like, "What the f-" that was, dude, that was insane, like, it was, and Gallagher loved it. He was like, "That you're just great." And so we just became, I guess, I'd say, pretty good friends. I mean, I would see him and I'd call him and ask him his things and opinions. And then one day, he just, he just, he got mad at me and said that I, you know, he thought kind of our acts were a little too similar.

• 44:48Billy Corgan?

  Uh-oh.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  And I was like, really bummed because that's the number one thing that every, well, especially when I started, was to do your original stuff because you don't, if you did anything remotely to stealing someone's, you're done. Especially going on The Tonight Show, right? People was like, "What are you doing this job?" So it had to be your own stuff. And that's why my, I think, all my stuff was so, I mean, it was stolen signs was my whole first Tonight Show. It was like, "Hey, neighborhood crime watch sign, you know? How good is their crime watchers if they're not watching their signs?" I mean, it was like, no one's doing that, you know? I had the bank too, but the-

• 45:21Billy Corgan?

  Did you feel, so you felt his accusation?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, well, totally. And then what was interesting, we did finally make up before his death. He came back to my show like nine nights in a row, literally.

• 45:34Billy Corgan?

  Wow.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  And I'm terrified because he's-

• 45:37Billy Corgan?

  Why do you think that is?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Uh, well, I don't know. He said, he's, "All right," and he just sat right there, I mean, by the curtain and watched every night. And my energy, "Your buddy's back," and I'm like, "Oh, my God." And I was just blown away that, you know, my mentor's right there watching me.

• 45:54Billy Corgan?

  That's intense.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  So intense. And I had a show that was like Noah, like Last Nine, it was just, it was a show that was just, it was just, "I'm on," and I'm like, I'm in that, you know, you're just dancing up there and everything's killing. And I come off and he's like, "That was the worst show I've ever seen you do. That was horrible." And I was like, "Oh, my God, I thought he was kidding because it was the best show I've ever done." And he just told me, he kinda critiqued me and said, you know, just you gotta change everything. Change everything that you're doing just completely, just start a new act. And I remember just thinking, okay, thanks Gallagher, and then, and then.

• 46:25Billy Corgan?

  You reminded me of, oh, I'm sorry, finish your story.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  No, and then, but then he, when he passed away, I, this is creepy, I think.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  I had, in the making of this prop, five, six years, maybe. It was, um, cause some people back in the day would say, you know, I saw your show and I said, oh, you hit that watermelon and you ruined my husband's jacket. And I was like, they think I'm Gallagher, like the, like, and I used to say, like, I, you know, he was, he, he, anyway, people were just because the, the, some of whatever. So enough people would say that, so one night I'm in the front row, this guy's like, hey, when you, when you hit the watermelon, give us a warning, right? And so I was like, I said, yeah, I think you're at the wrong show, right? And I'm like, I said, I don't hit the watermelon, I, I, I, until the end, you know that, you've seen the show. And they're like, yeah, and I'm like, and I've, you know, I, I hit cantaloupes now, just cause I wanna make it different.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  And, and I just thought.

• 47:20Billy Corgan?

  More on brand with the culinary.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Yes, more, exactly.

• 47:23Billy Corgan?

  Same age laugh.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And, uh, so I, I just, I, I, I came up with this prop that was impossible to make. It was gonna be a, a watermelon, and I was gonna hit it, and it was gonna explode, and it had, like, it was, like an asset. Like, my dad would have to make this thing, and my dad had, did make a couple of my props when he was alive. Because they had, were involved in engineering. But anyway, I finally get it done, it weighs like five thousand pounds, I can barely get it into the theater. It's just over engineered.

• 47:54Billy Corgan?

  This is a watermelon gag?

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's over engineered to the point where it's just, it's almost silly, it's a bomb, it's, it's just this whole thing, literally. And I have to hit this, this mallet weighs as much as, it's a hundred and twenty-five pound mallet. Made of a tree and a whole thing, and I have to hit it right on the mark, and when I do, it just, it, it looks, it's amazing. And, and I did it for, for a tribute to him.

• 48:16Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  But not, he wasn't dead yet.

• 48:19Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  I'm doing this as, I have this whole story about him and I, da, da, da, and then I say, at the end, I didn't even know I'm gonna do it, I come out, like, it's a joke, but the bell, and I come, and I hit it. And the crowd's like, goes nuts, right, cause it's like homage, and was the word I'm using for him.

• 48:34Billy Corgan?

  Homage.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Homage. So, I did it one night.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  And I was like, that was incredible. I mean, that ending was really phenomenal. And I woke up the next morning and he passed away.

• 48:49Billy Corgan?

  Oh my god.

• 48:49Speaker 02

  One night after doing that. And literally, my phone's blowing up, Gallagher died, Gallagher died, Gallagher died. So I was like, and then my manager's like, well, there goes the bit. And I'm like, well, no, now, now it is a tribute to him. But it was weird, it was weird because I wanted him to see it.

• 49:03Billy Corgan?

  Did you keep doing the bit?

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I did it, I do it now.

• 49:06Billy Corgan?

  Well, I just because it's a variant of that.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Right, right. I wanted him to see it.

• 49:12Billy Corgan?

  But I know, like, because you said it was this elaborate.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  No, I wanted him to see it, though. And I, and I, the joke I would say that that night, I said, I can't wait, Gallagher's, he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna, either, he's gonna hug me or he's gonna sue me. And then he didn't get a chance to see it, but I was, I really wanted him to see that because it was just a spectacular tribute to him. It took years in the making.

• 49:31Billy Corgan?

  Couple of things come to mind. One is, there's this Buddhist parable, which is, if you see a Buddha on the road, split him in half with an axe. You know, have you ever heard that?

• 49:42Speaker 02

  No. I have a lot of Buddhas in my house.

• 49:45Billy Corgan?

  Well.

• 49:47Billy Corgan?

  So you have some Buddhist thing in there?

• 49:49Speaker 02

  I mean, I have, I have a lot of Buddhas around. I have a lot of weird stuff around my house, though.

• 49:53Billy Corgan?

  I haven't been to your house yet.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  That's right, you haven't. Yes.

• 49:58Billy Corgan?

  But the idea is that at some point, the student needs to destroy the teacher.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I see what you're saying. Analogy there.

• 50:07Billy Corgan?

  In my case, my teacher was my father. And I had this thing happen where I was going to see this therapist in the 90s, and one day I sit down in the chair. And she goes, well, you've done it.

• 50:25Billy Corgan?

  Done what? She goes, you've destroyed your father. My fame and my... Hegemonic domination at the moment had basically squished my father like a bug into the ground. And, you know, part of that was the way he treated me up until I was successful. But then, you know, it changed the nature of our relationship after because, and I think that's kind of what you're hinting at, you know. In essence, he gave you the inspiration, but at some point he rebelled that the student was was outpacing the master. But that's, that's, that's life.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  That is beyond a super duper analogy and it's also would reflect my father, as you just said, your father.

• 51:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  That is exactly what happened with my father when he rejected me to do, that I wanted to go into this business. You know, he was like, no, you know, he can't say no, but he was completely not, let's say for it much. And I just did, I went on my own and I, you know, I did it on my own. I never came back.

• 51:31Billy Corgan?

  That's painful, right? Because...

• 51:33Speaker 02

  Absolutely, because you want them to be supportive and behind you and, you know, my, and this is, I used to do it in the show. My dad's like, you're gonna get in a comedy, no, when I had done comedy, I said, Dad, you know, I just did, I did this show and I, and I just, I was trying to drive home, he says, how'd you get a, how'd you buy a truck? And I said, well, I have three, literally three jobs when I was trying to do, college and three jobs and do these little comedy shows on, like at a club or a bar, like strip car, anywhere they would have a coffee shop, they'd have them. And usually they would pay me with like a Walkman, that's how long ago this was, right? That was the gift. You get a Walkman. And that was, I had like piles of Walkman. I would win these goddamn contests every week and here's your Walkman.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  And then that was my, then I came a joke, I said, I'd say, can you run with a Walkman? I had, you know, so I said to my dad, I said, Dad, I finally got paid. And my dad was like, what are you talking about? For what? I said, comedy. They paid me like a hundred and fifty bucks for a weekend. And my dad was like, "To do comedy?" And I said, "Yeah." He says, "You're not funny." But he wasn't being mean about it. He just said...

• 52:41Billy Corgan?

  No, that's kind of mean.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Literally said... No, but he said it how my dad would say, "Well, that's... But you're not funny." I'm like, "No, I know." And I wasn't funny around my father. And I wasn't funny around... I was just... I was one of these... Once he came to the show, I wish we had him on tape. He would... He was... He had no clue. No clue. He had no idea who I was. No clue.

• 53:01Billy Corgan?

  I had the same experience. I don't want to talk about it.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  No, but that's... But that...

• 53:04Billy Corgan?

  It's your time.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  And then he was... No, but that... So we know we have a lot...

• 53:07Billy Corgan?

  That exact same experience.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  We have a lot of similar a-... qualities in... And honestly.

• 53:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Well, we're both Pisces, so when we feel... We feel... We feel pretty deeply.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  And you're two years younger than me, so, you know. We're in the same... We have the same... There's a lot going on with us.

• 53:18Billy Corgan?

  I haven't...

• 53:20Speaker 02

  I hate that I have to say I'm older than somebody. Fuck. I'm always the oldest.

• 53:24Billy Corgan?

  We're forever young.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  I'm always the oldest one.

• 53:25Billy Corgan?

  We're forever young. Forever young.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Forever young.

• 53:29Billy Corgan?

  I actually sang that to Bozo on a TV show.

• 53:31Speaker 02

  Did you really?

• 53:32Billy Corgan?

  I swear to God.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Um... That's good.

• 53:35Billy Corgan?

  But thank you for sharing that, because it's... That's what I mean. It's like... I think it's so fascinating that someone that has shared so much of themselves, you know, there's not a lot on your story. I mean, you touch on it in the show.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  There is... There isn't... That's why we really want the documentary to be, um, kind of... It will be really the first time, um, you know, naked with...

• 54:05Billy Corgan?

  Naked top.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna be naked, but you mean showing myself behind the curtain, whatever, just like...

• 54:09Billy Corgan?

  I got it.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 54:10Billy Corgan?

  You're naked, you're jacked, and there's just a carrot.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Just a carrot. "Top this." That's the name of the special right there. There you go. "Top this."

• 54:18Billy Corgan?

  Um...

• 54:19Speaker 02

  We just thought of it.

• 54:20Billy Corgan?

  I just want to trape through this a little bit, because I think this stuff's kind of fascinating.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:23Billy Corgan?

  You show in your... Your show that the Star Search moment...

• 54:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:26Billy Corgan?

  Where you... Where you lose. You got Ed McMahon, you know, there you are.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  "Shawn Carter Top Gets Three in the Corners" or something.

• 54:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  It's a hard show, you had to do math. Right? Now they just say, "Who won?" Contestant two wins. Now, back then, three and a quarter stars, three and a third. I'm like, "The [__] is a quarter more than the third?" I didn't know.

• 54:48Billy Corgan?

  I guess what I'm after is, when, let's call it, that was the cultural zeitgeist for a comedian at the time. Like, you entered the jet stream of, like, here you are. Was that your kind of first announcement on national TV?

• 55:01Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't Star Search, it wasn't the first one. It was just such a big, broad, primetime show. I think I was on Comic Strip Live first, and then Sunday Comics was the prime show. And then, that's why, as we were talking this last night going home, about Star Search and some of the other ones that they have. A lot of comics that were on there were already established comics that were on, you know, Star Search. They were already doing theaters and clubs.

• 55:27Billy Corgan?

  It was a bit of a work, as we would say in wrestling.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I was the, you know, I, you know, I was that, I was, then the heat that, that time. And people were like, you know, "You want to be on Star Search?" And I was like, you know, "I grew up with that." So I was like, "Well, yeah." And they're like, "Well, you're gonna win it." I mean, everyone doesn't want to do it now because you're gonna do it. And I'm like, "How am I, you're gonna win it." Like, everyone was saying it. Like, every comic was basically saying, "Well, Carrot Top's on it, so there goes that." And then I lose in the first round.

• 55:58Billy Corgan?

  The guy you lost to?

• 55:59Speaker 02

  Bob Zany, he's a very funny comic.

• 56:01Billy Corgan?

  Oh, so it was a comic-comic thing?

• 56:02Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah, comics versus comics, and then, yeah, Star Search.

• 56:05Billy Corgan?

  I don't remember enough about the show, I remember.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  It was just, it was comic versus comic, or band versus band.

• 56:09Billy Corgan?

  The only person I remember is Sam Harris. Remember, he was the hyperbolic singer?

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:15Billy Corgan?

  Foggy memory.

• 56:18Billy Corgan?

  Walk me, because it's different now, but in the 90s, what was the trajectory for the rising up through the ranks as a professional comic? Was it a lot of, was it a lot of ground war, live shows? And then you get your national TV shots and...

• 56:35Speaker 02

  I haven't, mine's

• 56:36Billy Corgan?

  You end up in the, also in the MTV Jets.

• 56:38Speaker 02

  I say, mine's interesting because I, I started out and then I was, you know, just clubs doing anything. And then I would do, I mean, literally, strip clubs, anything where they would have comedy. And then I started finally doing professional clubs. And there was a lot of clubs that wouldn't book me because I was Carrot Top. Like, they just, they wouldn't, you know, the Punch Line in Atlanta, the biggest club you could possibly play. Everyone played it from Seinfeld to Fox with it, you name, you name the name. But I was already, you know.

• 57:03Billy Corgan?

  They would say, we don't want to book you?

• 57:05Speaker 02

  No, they would, I know the guy, right, at the, Ron DeNuzzi, was, was a, he invited me to his Christmas party. But he wouldn't book me.

• 57:12Billy Corgan?

  Because?

• 57:12Speaker 02

  He liked me. He says, you're, I love, man, Scott, I love you. But I can't book you. No, I, I don't, I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't, I can't book your, and I said, why? And every comic would be like, you gotta book, and, and I finally would just like, okay. It was just like, whatever.

• 57:31Billy Corgan?

  But what would he say specifically?

• 57:32Speaker 02

  They, they just didn't do, he just doesn't book for, for, I said, you picked Amazing Jonathan, what the, he's a variety? Why would you book me?

• 57:37Billy Corgan?

  Is that what they call it, variety?

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Well, they, but that's how they're specific, yeah, right. They would say, variety, where the magic guitar act or whatever, they'd say, variety. In a nice way. Me, they'd say, prop act. But, um, they just, so I would play the other club in Atlanta and we would, we would, yeah. We'd sell the club out, kill, da, da, da, da. And I was, every year, Ron, can I play the Punch Line? And he said, no, no. I said, okay, I'm, I'm playing there, I'm doing, it'll be good for you and my name, I'll, I'll help, you know. All my friends are playing there. And then one night, it was, um, it was the Fox Theater in downtown Atlanta and it was like a Wednesday night. And we sold out like, I don't know what it was.

• 58:15Billy Corgan?

  That's a big theater, it's about forty-five, thirty-five hundred, I've played it.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Yes. And for a dumb, stupid comic, I

• 58:22Billy Corgan?

  That's big.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  It was huge. And, and the band, Widespread Panic.

• 58:26Billy Corgan?

  We were selling out as a rock band, so that gives you a sense.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  No, I know, as I'm saying, for me, it was unbelievable and it's in Atlanta. And I'm like, you know, what do I do? I said, I don't know what to do, I'll call Ron and just say, come see my show. Like, don't be a about not him booking me. And he didn't come. But, but, but it was fun to call him and say, I'm at the Fox Theater on a Wednesday, you know, I got some seats.

• 58:46Billy Corgan?

  Well, at that point, he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Right. But we had the Widespread Panic, the band there, I was just, it was like, man, this is. But then I, sorry, I'm going way off. So I do that, then I go to the clubs and I, NACA, there's this thing called NACA, National Association of College Activities, and I, I went to the regionals and I did really good. I mean, I was like, I was killing it. Then they had the national one in Dallas. And I got accepted to do the national one, which was national, I mean, every college, every college was there. And I went up and I-

• 59:14Billy Corgan?

  So you're playing every college?

• 59:15Speaker 02

  Well, no, I was already playing colleges-

• 59:17Billy Corgan?

  College bookers?

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, bookers, yes. The national college-

• 59:19Billy Corgan?

  So this is where they all go to decide where they're gonna book?

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Right, where they buy and book. And so I'd already done the regionals and had all these schools, but then I'm, now I'm here and I've got, you know, Auburn, Notre Dame, you know, every, every, every college, UCLA, da-da-da. And I destroy, I don't know, I just, the perfect spot. I had a 20-minute set and it was just, I got lucky, I was un-killed and I beat Harry Chapin's record of number of bookings in a day. And so I remember, it was a big deal and my, and, and that's really what changed for me, because I had all these-

• 59:56Billy Corgan?

  So it was more ground game?

• 59:58Speaker 02

  It was, yeah, it was all ground game. Colleges, and I mean, two a day. Cafeteria in the morning, arena at night. Cafeteria in the morning, arena at night. Homecoming, stadium in University of Florida, stadium in, in Tallahassee, stadium, right? And it's like, I wasn't, they booked me for it, but I'm saying, I, you know, I was play, I played cafeteria and then I'm playing a stadium in the same day.

• 1:00:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  And so-

• 1:00:23Billy Corgan?

  Is cafeteria comedy different than stadium?

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, cafeteria comedy. I mean, so, it's just some similarities to it, but, um-

• 1:00:30Billy Corgan?

  Like what, what gag, what gag doesn't work?

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Well, that's what, that, well, actually, right. It is actually with intimacy with, with what I was doing back then more than I am now. It was, the stadium was, was, was crazy, crazy hard, but I, I did great. But- That's where I would have this ground, I'd have all this like, almost like a word of mouth, like Carrot Top, it's kind of just like this, Carrot Top's a thing. And then I would do, I started getting like TV, so I would have, everything from MTV to Regis and Kathie Lee, to The Tonight Show, or Senior Hall, you name it, whatever show it was. But I'm doing colleges, and then I'm doing TV, so kids are saying, "Oh, we saw this Carrot Top guy at our school," and they're like, "Oh, I saw him, his grandmother, I saw him on Regis." So I had this, and then I had a cartoon, show on the Cartoon Network, so it was like,

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  literally eight to 80 was my audience, any given day. And then I got AT&T commercials, and that was like, stupid big, I mean, it was like, it didn't, and it didn't do anything except make me like, famous in public.

• 1:01:36Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, public.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  Because he would say, "Oh, my god, the phone guy." They wouldn't even know I'm a comedian, they just know the phone guy.

• 1:01:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, you're that guy.

• 1:01:43Speaker 02

  They would even say, "What are you doing in Memphis?"

• 1:01:44Billy Corgan?

  I'm the Rat in the Cage guy.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, Rat in the Cage, exactly.

• 1:01:47Billy Corgan?

  That's what I get. You're the Rat in the Cage guy.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  So that's what happens, boom, boom, boom, and then finally, and then we got Vegas, and then now it's, so it's been, it's just been this incredible journey the whole way. But up the ranks was, I, you know, I did my time, I definitely did all the club work.

• 1:02:01Billy Corgan?

  Your father's passed away, I'm not crazy about that. At what point in that journey did he pass away? So at what point did he get to see your...

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  He definitely saw the, all the height.

• 1:02:11Billy Corgan?

  Was he surprised, was he supportive?

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Very supportive.

• 1:02:14Billy Corgan?

  Did he come around the other side and be like, "Oh, god, you are funny."

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:02:20Billy Corgan?

  Did he get it? Did he eventually kind of get the humor?

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely. And he, he...

• 1:02:24Billy Corgan?

  Did he start pitching bits?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  No, I would call him and say, my dad was funny, though, he was funny in a different way, dry way, but he, I would call him and say, "I need you to make this prop, could you make this prop?" And it was a, you know, a hat for, it was a hat with these NASCARs that went around your head, kind of, I said, "So you wear this if you can't go to the race, you feel like you're at the race at home?" And he made it, and it was brilliantly made and done, and so, he was very involved at the end, and was, he got into, my dad was, doesn't even know, I don't know, social media, he's like, there's some kind of thing called Facebook or something, and I got a page on there, and he called himself Pop Top. So he was very proud of me. And Pop Top was hilarious and the people would, you know, text him and the thing and say, you know, I saw your son at so and so, my dad would, you know.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  They would defend me too. These people are saying rotten stuff about you. I'm like, Dad, I told you not to get a Facebook page. You know?

• 1:03:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  They're saying you're gay, that you do drugs. I'm like, Dad, just don't get rid of the page. People are gonna say anything, they're gonna say rotten, but why are they saying these horrible things? I'm like, you know, one day he actually said to me, do you do drugs? I said, no. What, Dad? Dad, first of all, I go to the gym every day. I run every day. Doesn't mean you can't do drugs. I'm like, you'd have to be a pretty good athlete to go to the gym and run every day and still do blow.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  So, no, I don't do drugs, Dad. People are saying all these things. I said, yeah.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  It's show business, man, right? When they start talking shit on you, you've made it.

• 1:03:50Billy Corgan?

  There is a truth to that.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:03:53Billy Corgan?

  I said this thing the other day where people kind of, they do this weird thing where they talk about the point at which they thought you reached the highest point of accomplishment. And then they compare you to where they think you are now.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:04:06Billy Corgan?

  As if you're living in the shadow of your own accomplishment.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Oh, no, of your own, of your own, yeah, that's horrible. Well, I mean, but...

• 1:04:13Billy Corgan?

  As I said in, we were doing like a VIP with...

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  I saw you on your show that night. You're jamming. No, but it's not just saying to say it, like I just saw it.

• 1:04:21Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  So, you're still, your shadows is, is, there's no shadow of you.

• 1:04:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, well, what I like to say is, even if people are right, because I'm always willing to accept that people are right. Like, I don't need to fight them. If they think you're a shell of who you used to be, that's...

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:04:39Billy Corgan?

  I don't have time and energy to get into arguing with you.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  I kinda don't care, man.

• 1:04:43Billy Corgan?

  Right. But what I like to tell those people is like, at least there's something to compare something to.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  To, yeah.

• 1:04:49Billy Corgan?

  I actually made something for you to argue about.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  That's funny. That's a good way to put it.

• 1:04:54Billy Corgan?

  I know you flashed the number the other day when I saw you.

• 1:04:58Billy Corgan?

  And probably by the time this airs, you'll be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000.

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  Somewhere near, we're getting near. Lots of people have been to the show.

• 1:05:05Billy Corgan?

  That's cumulative Vegas shows?

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  It's cumulative, I think, of my career. I think we have.

• 1:05:09Billy Corgan?

  So you're almost at 10,000 shows?

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  No, it's not. It's somewhere closer not to. We put that up one night because it was, it was, it was the reason we did that. And I'm close to, but not 10,000 yet. We did, it was cumulative of my entire career. And then we looked up, it was like, my manager's like, not 10,000. I said, well, the reason we did that because there was, there was someone that just did that. And we did it as a joke.

• 1:05:29Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  And then we kept it in the show.

• 1:05:30Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  So it was some guy that said.

• 1:05:32Billy Corgan?

  So it's not a real number?

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  No, it's, but it's, there is a real number, but it's not 10,000. It's probably, you know.

• 1:05:37Billy Corgan?

  1200?

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  No, not 1200. It's probably closer to like 8 something, but.

• 1:05:42Billy Corgan?

  Still a lot of shows.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But I do that and we have an inside joke with the crew every night, of course, naturally, because the number's the same number every night for a year. So like, it hasn't changed. And it's like, I came to the show a year ago.

• 1:05:52Billy Corgan?

  Now I feel abused by the joke.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, still not 10,000.

• 1:05:55Billy Corgan?

  I was so proud of you. I was like, oh, that's a lot.

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but it's, it's a lot. And then the joke is, four of those were good, but still 10,000, you know, it's a, it's a good laugh.

• 1:06:05Billy Corgan?

  I, I found in trying to research you, there's not a lot of critical review of your work, which is kind of weird, I think.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:06:12Billy Corgan?

  At least I didn't find it.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Well, I have one that's, that's funny because people are afraid to write about me. They just don't.

• 1:06:18Billy Corgan?

  Explain that.

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  Okay. It might have, it might have changed now a little bit more, especially since I've been, you know, I always say, you know, I've been around so long now. I've been, I've been invited to the barbecue kind of thing. Okay, you're family, you can go to the barbecue.

• 1:06:33Speaker 02

  When I played, I was just starting to get a little heat. I, I had played the Wiltern Theater out here in Los Angeles. And it was a big deal for, you know, care of the Wiltern, it was like.

• 1:06:44Billy Corgan?

  2,400 people.

• 1:06:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a big deal. I remember. It was like, it was LA and we had like.

• 1:06:49Billy Corgan?

  Cool Deco bills in the old LA.

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we had some celebrities there. We had people that, you know.

• 1:06:55Billy Corgan?

  Can you remember who was there?

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Jenna Elfman was one of them.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  God, there's a whole bunch of them. I remember more now, but I remember, well, it was like real celebrities came to my show. And I was on MTV a lot then. I had a lot of TV stuff, so they were like, oh, Carrot Top. This guy writes from the LA Times,

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  a column about it. Carrot Top, and I have it framed in my house.

• 1:07:22Billy Corgan?

  Because?

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Because it was brilliantly written in this sense.

• 1:07:26Billy Corgan?

  Is it brilliantly mean, or brilliantly stupid, or brilliantly praise-worthy?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  No. It went on how horrible that it should have been.

• 1:07:37Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  I can't even just, I'll send it to you. It's just, and it's a nice, da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da, all the way, and I got so much from all my colleagues for saying, I'm gonna go to the Carrot Top show to see it. And you know what? Everyone's gonna hate me for saying this, but he killed it, and I had a great time. And it's just, I highlighted that part.

• 1:07:57Billy Corgan?

  Just stop there, because I've had this too. Why is he...

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  Back then, it bothered me more than it would be today, probably.

• 1:08:03Billy Corgan?

  But set aside yourself for a second, because I want to explore this, because we live in this weird world where we have to sort of process this information that most people don't have to process.

• 1:08:14Billy Corgan?

  Why is a writer performatively posturing? For who?

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:08:24Billy Corgan?

  Is he worried about what his critic friends are gonna think at the Formosa?

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:29Billy Corgan?

  Right? What is that?

• 1:08:29Speaker 02

  That is exactly what it is.

• 1:08:31Billy Corgan?

  What is that?

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  That's why, I don't know, but that's what he ended it. Yeah, I know this, and people will say, even this time where I'm at now, people will sometimes say that. They just can't believe that it's a good show.

• 1:08:45Billy Corgan?

  They're the qualifier, or they're an asterisk.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, and it's just, and it's weird, because you don't, it's not that you deserve the asterisk, or did anything to get the asterisk. It's just like, you just did the work, you know what I mean?

• 1:08:57Billy Corgan?

  Well, I think there's something interesting about that, if you don't mind me indulging.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  Please.

• 1:09:03Billy Corgan?

  Remember when I was in, I had this experience recently where a guy interviewed me. And he was a former writer for Pitchfork, which is, you know, the infamously snarky music website. From Chicago. He told me this at the beginning, you know, kinda saying, "I used to work for Pitchfork, but I'm out of that and I'm from Chicago." And basically, you know, he didn't say he was a huge fan, but he indicated before we started the interview that he thought positively of my work.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:28Billy Corgan?

  Had a great interview. It was great. I thought it was a great interview. Half the article, I can't remember where it was, but it was somewhere big. It was like, you know, like a magazine type of thing.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:38Billy Corgan?

  And it was, you know, the publicist thought it would be a good look for me as, you know, repairing my reputation, which is forever damaged or whatever. And the guy spent half the frickin' article apologizing for thinking highly of me. And I thought, "This is so strange. Like, what are we doing here?" I almost rather he just tried to slit my throat. So, let's explore that. Because I think this gets to the heart of our conversation.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  And you know what? Carrot Top, he's such a nice guy. I get that a lot too. Like, "Well, why not?" You know, I mean, they, they, my, well, before you keep your thought though, because my cousin was at the show this night and she reminded me of this and it's just perfect for this right now. My friend, and I don't want to throw him under the bus because he's, he is a dear friend of mine, but it's a funny, if he was sitting right here, he'd say, "I did do that." So, my cousin Patty gets Drew Carey's book. She loves Drew Carey. In Cleveland, she's in Cleveland. She's, "I'm gonna go get my book signed at a book signing from Drew Carey." So, she gets her time in line, she puts the book down in front of Drew Carey. And I've known Drew Carey for thousands of years. We're actually really good friends. And she says, "Oh, you signed my book?" And he says, "Yeah, I very signed his book." And she goes, "Oh, my cousin's Carrot Top." And he looks up, he goes, "Scott?

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Is your cousin?" And she goes, "Yeah." "Do you think he's funny?" She said, he said, "He is, Scott is the nicest guy I've ever met in my life." And he goes, "But do you think he's funny?" He said, "I said he was nice, didn't I?" Now, he might have been just being funny, but she's never, he was. But it was like, that's just, that's just an example of like, you know, "He didn't say you were funny." I'm like, "He's, because he's a comic, he's [__] with me." But of course, we've been friends and he knows, we know, both love each other's work. But that, I've had similar things where they do that. They write, like that one I framed. He could not, he could not for the life of him, but just say, "Holy [__]." It was just everything about the show that I did. And then he said, "I can't believe I'm gonna get so much [__] for saying this, but he killed it." I love Carrot Top's show. Masterpiece.

• 1:11:33Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. I'm taking my show back over here. Now it's my turn.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Okay, please.

• 1:11:39Billy Corgan?

  I think it's this weird thing. It's a cultural war thing. And in a cultural war, there has to be winners and there has to be losers. So, because they can't praise them all. Right? Because there would be no heat.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:55Billy Corgan?

  In wrestling, there has to be baby faces and heels. So invariably, certain people in our culture, they turn us heel. Or they make us the clown to be kicked. Because it somehow either fosters or illuminates the thing they want illuminated. Does that resonate with you at all? So what I always think, and I'm not trying to put this thought on you, but I always think is like,

• 1:12:20Billy Corgan?

  why do I have to die for rock and roll?

• 1:12:23Billy Corgan?

  I mean, I love rock and roll.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:24Billy Corgan?

  I mean, I love it. It's my whole life is rock and roll. I mean, I gave my life to rock and roll, literally. I mean, most of my life has been spent on the road, in a studio. And of course, there's always the person, "Well, you got paid and..." No, bro. They ain't no amount of money

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:43Billy Corgan?

  that can pay for

• 1:12:46Billy Corgan?

  eighteen years at the Luxor.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, but I never did. And that sounds weird, but I don't think you, just by knowing you briefly now, I don't think you got in to make money. You liked rock.

• 1:13:00Billy Corgan?

  No, I wanted to meet chicks.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

  Well, you want, right, you want to meet chicks, you want to, but you want me, you want to make music. But of course, that comes with that, you're gonna get paid.

• 1:13:07Billy Corgan?

  But it comes from a place of passion, obviously.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely, but I mean,

• 1:13:10Billy Corgan?

  It's you breaking down, it's you breaking down George Carlin tapes.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  All the way back, right, all the way back then, I was like, I am famously known for not even getting my check at clubs back then. I would get up, pack up my, have a drink, find girls, dance with them, and leave the next day and like, "You didn't pick up your check." I'm like, "Oh, yeah." And I'm not just being cocky, I didn't think about, you know, and I never, you know, I never got paid back when I, then, so when I started getting paid, of course, then it was like, okay, I'm getting paid, but it's never been money with the

• 1:13:41Billy Corgan?

  So let me ask you this, if you want to, if you want to play the game of the thought.

• 1:13:46Billy Corgan?

  What sin have you committed on comedy that they feel the need to sort of throw you into the fire?

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think, I think now it's gotten, it's gone, it went from, I've done everything wrong to...

• 1:13:59Billy Corgan?

  Okay, so what did you do wrong? What sin did you commit?

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Well, no, well, I think, well...

• 1:14:04Billy Corgan?

  Too funny?

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, you're funny and you, yeah, you draw crowds and you sell merchandise and they hate everything. But they don't like that you're on, you know, they would ask Jay Leno, literally. I was on a plane with Jay and he said, "Give me comments about me and how come they don't put you in the show? How come Karen Thompson's not with on the show?" And I said, "Oh, I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry you have to endure this [bleep] from..." Because he would, he would go to comedy clubs and they'd all say, "How come Karen Thompson's on every [bleep] week?" And he'd say, do you know what Jay would say to him? "'Cause he brings the [bleep] goods." And I said, "Oh, that's nice." He goes, "No, you do. You show up and you do your thing and the thing and then it's great." And I did the work and I...

• 1:14:41Billy Corgan?

  I sold tickets, mother...

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Right, I keep the viewer, they would always say, "You keep the viewers." It's a whole big bull [bleep] thing on television, you know? I go on at 12:01 and one leaves the station, but when I would go on, if that was on, they would wait.

• 1:14:54Billy Corgan?

  Oh, and they're looking at those numbers, yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  So, you know what I mean, Neilson, so, I [bleep] Neilson, that's why I get the ratings. But that's just all those little variables, but what did I actually do wrong? That's what makes, that's the whole funny part. And I used to kind of do a story when I started doing all the retrospective stuff in the show, I would say. When I started out doing comedy, I couldn't do, they wouldn't let me do stroblights, they wouldn't let me have foggers, they wouldn't have music. And I had it all on a foot pedal, like you have in your... So I made a stroblight, a smoke machine, and a wind blower. And then there was a sound bite, and there was only one sound bite at the time. It was a, it was a Michael Jackson thing, where it did, did, did, did, did, did, oh! And I'd have it on a loop.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  And I would hit the blower with this foot, and I would hit the sound effect with this foot, and I would do this Michael Jackson thing. This is, you know, 35 years ago. And the comedy club owners were like, they loved it, but other comics would see it like, "What is this [bleep]?" I'm like, it's, it's, it's, the crowd loved it. And like, but why, you know, I, I go to the tonight.

• 1:16:00Billy Corgan?

  They think you cheat, okay.

• 1:16:01Speaker 02

  No, well, they think that, yeah, they think you cheated. Or it's not, it's not pure, a purist, you know, like.

• 1:16:06Billy Corgan?

  What's pure, okay, because I don't understand the comedy. What's pure comedy?

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  A purist is, would be.

• 1:16:11Billy Corgan?

  You and a mic and some pathos.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  Absolutely, it's, it's.

• 1:16:15Billy Corgan?

  But you can do that.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  Of course I do, but I, but they don't see them, they see them in the show now. But that's why people see me now, they're like, you are, don't say Carl, but you are, you are a purist. Those comics last night were like, you did 45 minutes of stand-up. And I'm like, yeah, they were, you gotta show that. And I'm like, they will see it eventually, I'm not worried about it. I just would like people to see it, but that's what a purist, so when I hit the scene, I was everything but that, you know?

• 1:16:40Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 1:16:41Speaker 02

  A comic has strobe lights and lasers and music and, and now I have a video wall, like, what is that? I'm like, that's called staying with the times. It's, it's upgrading your show to a modern day, people want to look and see and hear. I said that way back 40 years ago when I started.

• 1:16:57Billy Corgan?

  Makes sense.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  I said, show and tell with liquor, that's what I am. You go to a comedy club and I got.

• 1:17:03Billy Corgan?

  Sponsored by.

• 1:17:04Speaker 02

  To show.

• 1:17:04Billy Corgan?

  Is that why that's part of the show?

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of.

• 1:17:07Billy Corgan?

  Kinder or no?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  No, I used, they used to give me a lot of the free product. I never got money from them, but they gave me, they gave me, they gave me booze.

• 1:17:13Billy Corgan?

  I would be remiss to not ask you about performing in Vegas. I think you told me, you do six shows a week for three weeks and then you take a week off.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Billy Corgan?

  How do you not go completely insane being in Vegas for extended periods of time?

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Well, because I live in a normal life there, you know, I have a house and I, and I just go in the back door and go home. I don't go party, I don't go to the strip. I have my little backstage where you, that's, that's, that's my big, do the show, have a drink, chat with some folks and then head home. And next morning, wake up, go to lunch, go to the gym, go to the show.

• 1:17:47Billy Corgan?

  So you like living in that climate?

• 1:17:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a normal neighborhood, just normal, you can, you know, it's just a normal, people are always shocked, do you live in Vegas? I'm like, yeah, they have like an Albertson, they have an Albertson there, yes, they, yeah.

• 1:17:59Billy Corgan?

  Well, what do you, in your free time, because you obviously have a lot of free time.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:03Billy Corgan?

  Maybe you don't, but...

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  When I'm working during the day, it's not really too...

• 1:18:07Billy Corgan?

  Like, I can tell you what I'm doing in a given day, but like...

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  It goes by pretty, like I said, pretty fast. I wake up.

• 1:18:12Billy Corgan?

  When do you normally wake up?

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  I wake up, well, it depends. Usually nine, or I don't go to bed that late, so I get up at nine. I water all my own flowers, I blow my yard, the leaves and everything, I'd kind of make the place look good. And then I go to lunch.

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  And then I go to the gym, and then I usually go grab a little coffee somewhere and kind of just get my head together for the...

• 1:18:32Billy Corgan?

  Start to zero in on the night.

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it's already, you know, by four o'clock, you already got to go and do a sound check and a thing and a meet and greet, like you do. I actually do, believe it for a comic, I actually do a sound check. Because, you know, you just got to get warmed up and you got to, and we always play rock and roll and, and that's in the show.

• 1:18:49Billy Corgan?

  So you're getting in the zone starts when on the day?

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Usually, right, you know, that's what's weird about our business is you're always in that. It's like, I don't know of anyone, or I don't, well, I do a few, that just do whatever and then they go, "Oh, I gotta go, I gotta..." And they walk in right when the show's and they go onstage. I'm like, I'm like...

• 1:19:06Billy Corgan?

  That was the famous thing on Jackie Gleason. Didn't rehearse.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, see, yeah.

• 1:19:10Billy Corgan?

  Larry King told this amazing story where, because he was friends with Gleason during the honeymooners time. And he's literally on the side stage where Jackie would walk through the door. And Jackie's just chatting, I'm like, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And then he hears it's his cue and be like, "I'll be right back." Walks through the door, goes out and kills, hasn't rehearsed with the cast at all. Walks back through the door, closes the door and picks up the conversation.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 1:19:30Billy Corgan?

  And you believe it with the...

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, Gleason, Jackie, she's a genius.

• 1:19:34Billy Corgan?

  I wish I was that guy, or maybe you wish you were that guy.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  Of course, although I don't like, I don't mind being the other guy, but I...

• 1:19:39Billy Corgan?

  No, no, it's fine.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  But I like, I like, I get excited to go into work and I get excited to, you know, I always say, like, you're an actual rock star. But when I, you know, I always say, my friends are like, "Dude, you know, it's time to be a rock star." And we go out there and there's, there's music and there's strobe lights and there's fog and there's this, and you're, you're, you're just in that element. It's like, and that's why I picked that to, going way back a minute ago about what rules did I break? I broke all the good ones, man, because I love having all those bells and whistles on stage. That's what makes, that's what makes me happy and that's what makes the crowd like going to a stand-up comedy show and there's smoke and there's strobe lights and there's, there's the confetti. It's like you're at a rock concert and there's rock and roll blaring the whole night, the whole show's, you've seen it's all,

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  it's all music and, and, and it's just bam bam and that's, you know, you come off, you're exhausted. But that's, it's rock and roll. I know, I watch you in the side, I'm like, now that's we, we just kind of try to, you know, we try to be it as much as we can.

• 1:20:40Billy Corgan?

  It's a different thing to, to, to scream at the top of your lungs for an hour and a half.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I watch you.

• 1:20:46Billy Corgan?

  I don't want to say what you do isn't primal, but it's, it's more base primal.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:51Billy Corgan?

  You know, you've got to come from the gut.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Billy Corgan?

  You gotta like go so outside your comfort zone. There's nothing normal about screaming. You know what I mean?

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:21:00Billy Corgan?

  It's kind of weird. And on cue, with no, you know, no provocation.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:05Billy Corgan?

  You know, no fight or flight.

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:21:07Billy Corgan?

  It's just like, okay, here.

• 1:21:10Billy Corgan?

  I do want to ask you before we, before we end here. I'm like anything that's American institution, Vegas as an institution is sort of fascinating because it's, and I think you do a great job in the show sort of poking fun. Let's call it the bull that is Vegas. I mean, everybody knows, but you live it.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:21:32Billy Corgan?

  On some level.

• 1:21:32Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:21:33Billy Corgan?

  And I like, like one of my favorite jokes that you told was like, and tell me if I did it wrong, but Circus Circus so bad they named it twice.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:21:41Billy Corgan?

  Like I love Circus Circus. I went there the other day by myself, in fact, before I came to see you play.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  And do you really?

• 1:21:46Billy Corgan?

  I was there by myself, like playing the sad games and.

• 1:21:49Speaker 02

  Oh, that's great.

• 1:21:49Billy Corgan?

  I'm just into all that weird.

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  That's good. No, I love that.

• 1:21:52Billy Corgan?

  Last time I was there, like I went a couple of years ago with my kids. You know, you know, in the movie, there's that one movie where they, they filmed it in Circus, James Bond or something. And they have like clowns and now it's just like totally sad people with the barrel for 30 minutes.

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:06Billy Corgan?

  Sliding the legs. They don't even like switch acts. You're like, oh my God, this is so out there.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Right. But yeah, it's fun and that's what's great about, like you said, I, people are always like, oh my god, like, one, comics, like, they have the luxury of doing that kind of, as we pick on, like, I pick on the Luxor, and people are like, "They let you do that?" I'm like, "Well, they know I'm, I mean, I'm, I do it in a fun way." Yeah, yeah. I always, I make a joke, "I love this hotel, this is my favorite hotel right here at the Luxor." Like, it's just, like, I'm a hand for the answer, I mean, it's just a joke, but, I have had people, I had, we had a president of the hotel, Felix Rappel, who's a genius,

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  went on to Foxwoods, been everywhere, he was just one of the best presidents of a hotel, knew how to do it, man, right? Entertainment. He would come to the show all the time, one night he comes to the show, and I had this dumb joke, they had just built New York, New York. And I think he was, was, anyway, the joke was, I said, "If you go to New York, New York." I said, "You gotta go to New York, New York, you just leave here and you go through the Excalibur to get to New York." It's like going through Jersey to get to New York. And it's just a dumb joke, right, but it's funny, because you have to go here through Jersey to get to New York, New York. And we played that song, "Ooh, that smell." Killed, I mean, it would kill. And one night he comes back out of the show, and he's like, "Scott, no, he's never would, ever, never, ever."

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  He's not even allowed to tell me, they can't, they don't, they don't own my show, I own my own show. I just rent the space from the Luxor in a sense, that's how I do it. But, they're not allowed to say what I can do content-wise. And I try to respectfully not do things that I think would be wrong. So, you know, Circus Circus, so bad they named it twice, "That's a sh**hole." We're saying three times, "That's a sh**hole," you know, like that, just fun. Bellagio, you know, it's a dump, I call it a dump, it's beautiful, of course, they know it's a joke. So then, anyway, he comes back, he's like, he's, he says, "Oh, man, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta ask you something." I said, "Oh, what do you want, what do you want?" He says, "We're getting a lot of..." People that are upset about, and it's only one little thing.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  I said, "What? What are they upset about?" He says, "That joke you do about going through Excalibur." I'm like, "Oh, going to Jersey to get to New York?" He goes, "Yeah." I go, "You want me to take it out?" "Take it out." He says, "It's just, a lot of the employees here, when they come to the show, they get their feelings hurt because you're calling their hotel a piece of [BLEEP]." And I'm like, and then, but then I said, "Yeah, but if you listen to the joke, Felix, at the end, when I say it's a piece of [BLEEP], I said, "It's a nice piece of [BLEEP]." And I really did. That was the joke, how it ended. I go, "It's a piece of [BLEEP]." "It's a nice piece of [BLEEP]." And he said, "You do say that." I said, "Yeah, I'll take it out." So that's the one thing in my entire life that someone asked me to take out,

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  and I took it out respectfully because I thought, you know, it's not a deal breaker. You know, it's one stupid joke.

• 1:25:02Billy Corgan?

  Does the darkness of Vegas get to you at all?

• 1:25:06Billy Corgan?

  It's a dark place.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:08Billy Corgan?

  I mean, it's obviously a great place because

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Billy Corgan?

  It creates a

• 1:25:14Billy Corgan?

  It creates an atmosphere where someone like you can

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:25:16Billy Corgan?

  Reach for these types of stars.

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  We always say, we always say, even, you know, as beloved as I, but everyone says it, we always say, "Only in Vegas." We see something.

• 1:25:26Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  Or you experience something at a show, like, "Only in Vegas." Like, we had people, they had to be thrown out of the show the other night because the guy was just beyond obnoxious. And it's like, he was sitting right in the front with his five guy. And they were, I wasn't even on yet, they were just already causing a problem, so they had to throw, the guy took his big $87 drink that he must have just bought and threw it up on the stage, you know, in disgust and anger.

• 1:25:50Billy Corgan?

  Those props are expensive.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'm like, and, you know, they're on the radios, you know, "Oh, we're holding the show, some guy's been thrown," "Oh, [BLEEP], he just threw a drink on the stage." I'm like, "What? Who does that? Like, no one does that. I've never seen that. Ever."

• 1:26:06Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:26:08Speaker 02

  And it's just like, we just sit back, and we're always like, "Only in [BLEEP] Vegas, man." Like, you don't see people behave like this in

• 1:26:14Billy Corgan?

  Well, you do have a unique seat in that you see America as it probably really is. You get that cross-section every night.

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, we get everybody, everybody from the different countries come. I mean, even Louisiana, even Louisiana comes.

• 1:26:30Billy Corgan?

  Has it made you cynical to see America up close?

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  I mean, everyone has a little cynic in them. I mean, that's what drives the machine, right? Is all that, you know? A little bit of my dad's in me. I'm very, a little sinister, a little myself, a little cynic, but, but, um... Yeah, not too much. You just kinda just go...

• 1:26:50Billy Corgan?

  It doesn't seem to affect you, but I was wondering...

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it really doesn't. Yeah, I'm conscious enough of it, for sure. But, but, you know, I've been very blessed, you know, we've been there, Jesus, almost 30 years and... They, we just, going back to, you know, again, we, they just had an elec- an election. That's the thing I do in my show, "Hey, we won th-" So we, we won first place and it's like, you can't, you can't, you can't put up there that I won first place 'cause it's not funny.

• 1:27:13Billy Corgan?

  Did you win first place?

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm, I make me get third, 'cause it's only funny if I get third.

• 1:27:16Billy Corgan?

  Oh, so that's a bit.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I got, no, but, yes. So I got first place in the, uh, in the Weekly, which is a, like, more of a, um... The hipster man, you know, the Weekly magazine in Vegas. It's all the hipsters and you, you know?

• 1:27:30Billy Corgan?

  Stress me. I know all about the hipster world.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  And then, so we got, "Wow, we got first place." Then we got third place in the USA Today, which is a general poll, right? That's a, it's a broad, that's a, you know?

• 1:27:40Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  So, then we just won, like, two days ago, the, the, the paper.

• 1:27:46Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  So there's like, so first, third, first, but I'm like, so the bit in the show is I just leave it at third 'cause it's not funny if I win, you know what I mean? You have to say, "Hey, we got third." You have, "Yeah," you know? But people in Vegas have been very nice to me and, and, and the support, that's unbelievable.

• 1:28:03Billy Corgan?

  Okay, my last bit here.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Gotta hope I make it through it.

• 1:28:11Billy Corgan?

  I had this impression the other night, um, and it does kinda dovetail with my thought about you as Harlequin. I thought, and it was a weird impression, 'cause again, I'm having this kinda moment where I'm watching and thinking, "Wow, this guy's really got chops, like, everywhere, left and right." I found myself laughing about bits you were doing between the bits.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  I...

• 1:28:33Billy Corgan?

  Like you do your bits and then there's like little bits.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  More people, and I mean this, and I don't even know what the hell, everyone says that to me. And I swear, yeah, I'm now, I'm even trying to even be conscious of what the hell people are talking. They say you did, and then the mumbly stuff. I said, I don't even know I'm mumbling. They say, yeah, you do the bit and then you do this thing. And I'm like, but what is it that, what? So can you, you remember what the, was it in particular?

• 1:28:54Billy Corgan?

  It's like little, it's like little aside, it's almost like you're talking to yourself.

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  Right, okay. But I don't conscious of it.

• 1:28:59Billy Corgan?

  You like, you like, you did the, you did the puffy, uh, baby oil joke.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 1:29:05Billy Corgan?

  You want to explain the bit? Or you want to skip that?

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, it's fine. It's a backpack for P. Diddy. It's a big oversized baby oil backpack.

• 1:29:13Billy Corgan?

  And then, and then you, you know, as you're putting it down, and you go, too soon?

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  Oh, right. Yeah, there's little things that I kind of mumble on my, yeah.

• 1:29:19Billy Corgan?

  But I found myself the next day laughing about the bits between the bits.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, a lot of people say so. I gotta make sure I keep doing that.

• 1:29:27Billy Corgan?

  Your Trump is something else.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  It's fabulous, it's great. Yeah, no, it's stupid, it's stupid because it started out, just, I was, I, I, I can't, you know.

• 1:29:34Billy Corgan?

  Now you're gonna do it, it's too funny.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  No, right, I couldn't do it, right? And now I, I, I just, and when you're sitting, that's the best part. When you're sitting like this is the perfect time because it's telling me when you're sitting like this, right? And it's just, it's just become, it's one of those things, it's not even picking on him. If you saw the show, I don't even pick on him. I just, I just do.

• 1:29:50Billy Corgan?

  I love.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  You pick a topic. I just say, just say, you say, just pick, and just say something random.

• 1:29:55Billy Corgan?

  You mean right now?

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, right now. Any, any, any.

• 1:29:59Billy Corgan?

  Dick Cheney.

• 1:30:00Speaker 02

  I made Dick Cheney. There was never Dick Cheney before me. There was never, Dick Cheney never existed. It's when you just say anything, anything.

• 1:30:07Billy Corgan?

  Wasn't I the person that told you?

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  No, he bottled water, bottled water, and people drank out of hoses. I made bottled water. I'm the first administration to make bottled water. I mean, it's just so dumb.

• 1:30:13Billy Corgan?

  You know how he doesn't have a heartbeat?

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  And I'm not even making fun of him. I'm just making fun of the, the, the character.

• 1:30:17Billy Corgan?

  But you know Dick Cheney doesn't have a heartbeat, do you know?

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  Yes, you told me this. I, yeah, you did. I did.

• 1:30:22Billy Corgan?

  You gotta do it, see, I gotta do it.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  Now, Dick Cheney?

• 1:30:24Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, he doesn't have a heart.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  Dick Cheney doesn't have a, he doesn't, not, not only not a heart, he doesn't even have a heartbeat. I mean, he has no heart, yeah.

• 1:30:32Billy Corgan?

  Okay, my last little riff here is I pile psychologically on top of your.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  I should have done my hair for this.

• 1:30:38Billy Corgan?

  There you go. But I had this interesting revelation during it, and again, I'm sort of sitting there like dealing with the three dimensional version of what you actually do as opposed to my poor latent impression. And I thought, this guy would make a great Shakespearean actor. Did you ever really, I know you've done some movies and stuff, but you're probably doing you, but I mean, did you ever think about acting actor?

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  Yes, I have definitely.

• 1:31:02Billy Corgan?

  I think you could be a great actor.

• 1:31:05Speaker 02

  I actually.

• 1:31:05Billy Corgan?

  I don't know what it is, I just, and by the way, when I say great actor, I was like, this guy should be a Shakespearean actor.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know about that, well, you're very sweet.

• 1:31:14Billy Corgan?

  I'm dead serious. You've got like weird skill sets I didn't know you had.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Well, I think everyone, well, not everyone, I think a lot of people, I do, especially, because I do what I do, is so dumb and over the top stupid, but then I always want to be that serious guy, like, I want to, I wanted, I've always wanted to be in a movie where I didn't, I could just be cool like.

• 1:31:38Billy Corgan?

  Remember when Jerry Lewis did Was a King of Comedy?

• 1:31:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, King of Comedy.

• 1:31:41Billy Corgan?

  Like, I think you got that, I think you should look at that.

• 1:31:43Speaker 02

  We, I, no, but I did, I did, I've done a couple of things where people were like, that's pretty good, like, I'm not, I would say, you know, I'm not a trained actor, but I think every comic can kind of, to a degree, act a little bit. But I've always wanted to have that. I did one movie that's not come out yet where I played, again, I'm like, I don't want it to be like the Joker, because it looked like, you know, I'm trying to be, you know, me with blood all over me is automatically I'm Joaquin Phoenix, I don't want to, so I made sure they knew I'm like this clown, but I don't want to be, I don't want to rip off that.

• 1:32:21Billy Corgan?

  I get you.

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  So they said, okay, you're gonna, you're gonna be this like crazy dude. And I am like literally just like a drug dealer.

• 1:32:30Billy Corgan?

  Is this a big budget or small budget?

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  Small, but I get to play, you know, I just, I get killed, I'm covered in blood, the guys, you know, but I'm acting like a real actor. It was so much fun at the end of the day. And they were like, that was great. And I said, you know, it was great, it was just, I got a chance to not be Carrot Top, like it was like, it was like just being Scott. It was, it was cool, you know?

• 1:32:52Billy Corgan?

  Well, I can only encourage you in that, because I saw it somewhere in one of your Mumbly bits.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  I was this close to being in a movie with Nicolas Cage's dear friend of mine, who lives in Vegas.

• 1:33:02Billy Corgan?

  I know Nick from Lisa Marie days.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah. So he says, we hang out all the time, he says, he's like, you'd be a good actor, right? So, you know, bra, you know, hey man, you'd be a good actor. So I'm like, yeah, I guess I'd read lines with him sometimes, but he's like, no, man, you're good. I got this movie, man. It was great. And we never did it, but I got to play exactly what I just described. I'm this drug dealer and I'm just, I can pick whatever. I don't, I don't have to be me at all. I can be shaved head, I can be shirtless, I can be whatever. They wanted me to have a little bit of muscle because I'm like this crazy strung out drug addict. But it was, the script was just like, oh my God, I want to do this, man.

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  But it might come one day, that kind of, that kind of role, that kind of movie. Because it would be fun to jump into it.

• 1:33:52Billy Corgan?

  I get it. That's all I can say. And I would highly recommend anybody go see where you're playing. Because I laughed for 90 minutes straight and I can't think of the last time I laughed like that. The only other person who's made me laugh as much as you was Dice.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, Dice. Hey, Dice is good. I love Dice. Dice is one of those guys you think would hate me, right? Just because, right?

• 1:34:16Billy Corgan?

  I don't know, I don't know him personally.

• 1:34:17Speaker 02

  I'm just saying like, or at least maybe I'm thinking this too strongly. Because back then when everyone were just out to get me, I did this Gene Simmons roast.

• 1:34:26Billy Corgan?

  Throughout this Guns N' Roses song, "They're Out to Get Me."

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  "They're Out to Get Me," yeah, indeed. I'm on this.

• 1:34:32Billy Corgan?

  There's the start of your documentary.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:34Billy Corgan?

  If they'll license it to you.

• 1:34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that. I had a TV show called Toys in the Attic and I asked Steven Tyler if that. He's like, yeah, man, I'd do it. It never came to fruition, but the.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  The roast is, oh, because you're from Dice, so I'm, and they, they fuck with me, I'm, I'm, I'm on the dais and I'm.

• 1:34:58Billy Corgan?

  This is Dice's roast?

• 1:34:59Speaker 02

  No, I don't know, he's there, it's, it's.

• 1:35:02Billy Corgan?

  But you're doing a roast?

• 1:35:03Speaker 02

  No, I'm on the dais, roasting Gene Simmons.

• 1:35:05Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 1:35:06Speaker 02

  And it was everybody, I mean, it was, you know how they are, all the celebrities and da, da, da, da. And I think Danny Partridge, whatever his name was, was, was, was on there, now, now I've been friends with him forever. He has a radio show and he, he's actually, he's a really cool dude.

• 1:35:21Billy Corgan?

  Oh, Danny Bonaduce?

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  Bonaduce, so he's there and I'm, whatever, and I, everyone's fucking with me, because that's how you do it on a roast, right? Finally get up, I'm like, you know, Jesus Christ, not, they're not roasting me, we're, we're roasting Gene Simmons, what the fuck? Take it easy, right? Everybody was just going on and on and on. And I said, and you, and you of all people, Danny, I said, look, this is what you would look like if you took care of yourself. He was like, he was all just, he was in rehab at the time and he's just all fucked up and, and fat and bald, and I said, and, because he was making fun of me. So it's my turn, I'm like, and by the way, you know, but, so why did I do that? I'm, but, and they said, we have a special guest.

• 1:35:58Billy Corgan?

  Uh oh.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  In the back of, the back of the door, not even on the, behind the dais, the door's open, he comes through the crowd, this cigarette and the whole nine yards, and I'm like, oh, God.

• 1:36:07Billy Corgan?

  I'm gonna get murdered.

• 1:36:08Speaker 02

  Murdered. And he comes up and he goes, look.

• 1:36:12Billy Corgan?

  He's fucking funny.

• 1:36:13Speaker 02

  Well, absolutely.

• 1:36:15Billy Corgan?

  He's funny at a like a crazy level.

• 1:36:17Speaker 02

  He looks up and he goes, what the?

• 1:36:21Speaker 02

  What the?

• 1:36:22Billy Corgan?

  That's a good, that's a good impression.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  The fuck is this? The, where, where is there a celebrity? Right? And all of a sudden, he looks right at me and he goes, and Carrot Top, right? And I'm like, here goes. Is the only celebrity in this dais. This, literally, I'm talking about a love fest. I'm like. What, like?

• 1:36:44Billy Corgan?

  I love you, Dice.

• 1:36:45Speaker 02

  Oh, he was just like, "He, this guy's got a, has a, a show in Vegas for thirty years. You got nothing. This guy's worth eighty million dollars." Carrot Top. "Yeah!" And I was like, "Yeah, yeah." Great. And now we're best, best friends. I mean, he called, we called each other time. He was like, "I gotta, you gotta, you gotta do this gig. I got this guy in Florida." And I'm like, "I can't do it, Dice. I gotta, you know, I gotta bring all my shit."

• 1:37:13Billy Corgan?

  I have a tea house in Chicago called Madame Seuss, which is where this is from.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:37:17Billy Corgan?

  But I've been, I'm trying to beg Dice through friends to come do the tea house.

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  He'll do it.

• 1:37:20Billy Corgan?

  But he won't, no, he won't do it. He said no.

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37:23Billy Corgan?

  He only works with one guy in Chicago who I actually know, but he's more on the south side of the city. He flies in, does the gig splits.

• 1:37:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, I knew that part.

• 1:37:30Billy Corgan?

  And I was like, "He could do two nights, it's..."

• 1:37:31Speaker 02

  He won't do it.

• 1:37:32Billy Corgan?

  No, so I'll let you, I'll let you beg him.

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  I'm gonna have a talk with him. I'm telling him, I'm serious. I'm gonna say, I just, I just finished the podcast with Billy. Get the, do his TM.

• 1:37:40Billy Corgan?

  I got married to my longtime partner last year and at one point I flirted out paying Dice to do the wedding. And everyone, like, you could see them with the wheels turning. You know what I mean? Like, imagine you're married, everyone's there, families, and then you give Dice the mic.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 1:37:57Billy Corgan?

  Right? It's like, it's like people's palms start sweating.

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, just be, oh, God, great with him. How great would that be?

• 1:38:03Billy Corgan?

  So, we'll, we'll, we'll let Dice have his word.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  God, I hope he does.

• 1:38:06Billy Corgan?

  Anyway, thank you for doing us.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Thanks for being the...

• 1:38:08Billy Corgan?

  I hope it wasn't too psychobabble-ish.

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  No, I, actually, this is one, I'm not making this up. This is one of the only podcasts that I, I learned something.

• 1:38:17Billy Corgan?

  Thank you, brother. That was so great. Thank you, thank you.