Pod Insights The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan Richie Sambora | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan About this episode In this candid, in-depth conversation, Billy Corgan sits down with legendary guitarist, singer, and songwriter Richie Sambora. Together they dig into how success comes at different speeds, the real story behind life in Bon Jovi, and the balancing act that happens once the show is over and you head back home to family. They talk about cutting tracks in the old days, the headspace it takes to perform for 80,000 fans, and what truly matters when the stage lights go down. Richie’s honesty reveals a side of him few get to see—how fatherhood, heartbreak, and a raw passion for making music have guided his choices. No overblown rock myths here—just two musicians talking about their craft, the road they’ve traveled, and the personal challenges that shape them both on and offstage.
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Transcript 11,911 words · 4 speakers
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1:08 Speaker 01 People experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands,
1:19 Speaker 01 core changes, man.
1:21 Billy Corgan? And you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing too good is a bad thing.
1:26 Speaker 01 Too good is a bad thing.
1:28 Billy Corgan? That sounds like one of your songs.
1:34 Billy Corgan? The Samboras.
1:36 Speaker 01 The Samboras. They are the best.
1:43 Billy Corgan? So.
1:43 Speaker 01 We would be, we would be pretty good together.
1:46 Billy Corgan? I think your flamenco playing would be better than mine, but I could fake it. A lot of A minor, right?
1:51 Speaker 01 We're talking songwriting school.
1:53 Billy Corgan? All right.
1:54 Speaker 01 For folks.
1:55 Billy Corgan? Let's jump in here.
1:58 Billy Corgan? Young William Patrick Horgan stays out all night at the then, the, uh, what was it called back then? Rosemont Horizon. Right by, right by O'Hare in Chicago, 1984, I think was the year.
2:11 Speaker 01 Oh, well, it was a crappy sounding room, wasn't it?
2:15 Billy Corgan? We'll get there.
2:18 Billy Corgan? Yes, notorious.
2:19 Speaker 01 Great crowd.
2:20 Billy Corgan? No, one of the best, right?
2:23 Speaker 01 Chicago, every time.
2:24 Billy Corgan? So, uh, I stay out all night and I get my Scorpions tickets. I'm 14th row, but I make sure I see the opening band because they have a hit on Chicago radio called Runaway. And there you are. So that's the first time I saw you was I was 17 years old. Pretty cool, right?
2:42 Speaker 01 We were junk, that's amazing. Uh, we were junkyard dogs, man. I think, you know, we were young and they, and they gave us 45 minutes to play. So it's like.
2:51 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
2:51 Speaker 01 Head down.
2:52 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
2:53 Speaker 01 And all you got.
2:55 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
2:56 Speaker 01 No, no breathing necessary in the whole thing.
2:58 Billy Corgan? It's like.
2:59 Speaker 01 It's like, yeah, 45 minutes of, plus.
3:03 Speaker 01 Ooh, she's a little runaway to the Scorpions crowd. No, we got a lot of, you know, I mean, she had to wear a baddie.
3:11 Billy Corgan? The Scorpions crowd didn't like you guys?
3:12 Speaker 01 It was so fun because it was like nickels and quarters and.
3:15 Billy Corgan? Is it because they had more of a hard rock crowd at that time?
3:18 Speaker 01 You think?
3:20 Billy Corgan? I'm asking you, I mean, I was in the crowd. I wasn't throwing anything at you.
3:24 Speaker 01 Hey, listen, man, you know, I'm, I was 15 years old, white kid from the swamp. My first concert was at Black Sabbath, man, you know?
3:33 Speaker 01 I was, I, I saw everybody.
3:35 Billy Corgan? What year did you see Sabbath?
3:36 Speaker 01 Uh, 75.
3:37 Billy Corgan? So that was Sabbath, bloody Sabbath?
3:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:40 Billy Corgan? Great period for Sabbath.
3:41 Speaker 01 Definitely. Yeah, but I liked them from day one, you know? I was a huge fan from day one. Still am.
3:46 Billy Corgan? You were OG.
3:48 Speaker 01 Still am. But I was, you know what, I was lucky enough to have this train. I lived literally on a dead end street next to a swamp. But I used to cut through the swamp and I could get to the train tunnel in about a minute and a half.
4:03 Billy Corgan? Okay.
4:04 Speaker 01 And it dropped me off in Penn Station underneath the garden.
4:06 Billy Corgan? Oh.
4:07 Speaker 01 I saw everyone there was ever seen.
4:12 Billy Corgan? Who comes to mind, because I love this period of music.
4:14 Speaker 01 Queen, Led Zeppelin, Elton John, Paul McCartney, Wings, Deep Purple.
4:23 Billy Corgan? So you had a very-
4:23 Speaker 01 David Bowie five times.
4:25 Billy Corgan? High standard of music, right?
4:27 Speaker 01 Rod Stewart.
4:28 Billy Corgan? Does it make sense what I'm saying? It's like, as a musician, you go, if I'm gonna do this, I gotta be up in here. Isn't that, everybody has a high standard. I come from the indie world, and you know, the thing about a lot of indie people, they think playing Too Good is a bad thing.
4:44 Speaker 01 Too good is a bad thing.
4:46 Billy Corgan? That sounds like one of your songs.
4:49 Speaker 01 No, it was a different type of the same melody.
4:52 Billy Corgan? It's a hit.
4:53 Speaker 01 It's a hit, ladies and gentlemen.
4:55 Billy Corgan? So, there I am, and, you know.
4:58 Speaker 01 How old were you?
4:59 Billy Corgan? Seventeen, seventeen.
5:00 Speaker 01 Seventeen, oh, you're old, old.
5:02 Billy Corgan? I was playing guitar already, and you guys were a good band, you know, but I mean, there were a lot of good bands back then.
5:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:09 Billy Corgan? You almost kind of couldn't be a touring band at that point and not be-
5:12 Speaker 01 No, everybody-
5:13 Billy Corgan? Everybody could play back then.
5:14 Speaker 01 Everybody was pretty damn good.
5:17 Billy Corgan? Did you have a sense at that early date that you guys were on this kind of jet stream? Because, you know, it was-
5:24 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
5:24 Billy Corgan? You felt it?
5:26 Speaker 01 Without doubt.
5:27 Billy Corgan? Tell me, tell me, because I always love this, because you and I understand something that very few people understand. There's that feeling where you're like, wow, this is gonna work.
5:36 Speaker 01 Big time, right?
5:37 Billy Corgan? You feel it in your bones and you see it-
5:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:40 Billy Corgan? And here it comes.
5:41 Speaker 01 Materialize.
5:41 Billy Corgan? Right, okay, so what were the things-
5:43 Speaker 01 As, as, as this materialized-
5:44 Billy Corgan? Beyond the obvious, you know.
5:47 Speaker 01 I really enjoyed it. You know why?
5:51 Speaker 01 Because-
5:53 Speaker 01 Before that, I worked like crazy.
5:56 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
5:56 Speaker 01 And I enjoyed it. I loved it. I still do.
5:58 Billy Corgan? Mm-hmm.
5:59 Speaker 01 You know, I was in the studio for the last five days, like ten, twelve hours a day. I love it.
6:07 Billy Corgan? Right.
6:07 Speaker 01 Completely.
6:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
6:08 Speaker 01 Always did.
6:09 Billy Corgan? Well, you're...
6:10 Speaker 01 So it kind of made sense to me.
6:11 Billy Corgan? Let me tell you something, because you may not know this, or maybe you do. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians?
6:19 Speaker 01 My who?
6:19 Billy Corgan? Your reputation. Do you know what your rep is with alternative musicians? You have a very strong rep with alternative musicians.
6:26 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
6:26 Billy Corgan? You're very respected with the alternative community.
6:29 Speaker 01 That's fantastic.
6:30 Billy Corgan? Because they see you as a musician's musician.
6:33 Speaker 01 Thank you.
6:33 Billy Corgan? You see what I'm saying?
6:34 Speaker 01 Thank you.
6:34 Billy Corgan? Where a lot of the rock guys, the alternative community kind of go, eh, too obvious, too lame, too cheesy, they want it too bad. You have a different rep in my world.
6:46 Speaker 01 Oh, that's beautiful.
6:47 Billy Corgan? Because...
6:48 Speaker 01 I did not know that. Thank you.
6:49 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah. Are you kidding?
6:50 Speaker 01 I didn't know.
6:51 Billy Corgan? You got a real rep because people understand where you're coming from.
6:55 Speaker 01 Thank you.
6:55 Billy Corgan? Like, you'll hear people like, eh, Bon Jovi, but Richie. They don't mean John. They're saying, you know, the music that's not for them.
7:04 Speaker 01 Right.
7:05 Billy Corgan? But they identify that you in that is something that they get it.
7:09 Speaker 01 Isn't that good?
7:09 Billy Corgan? So I think it's cool, right?
7:10 Speaker 01 Good thing.
7:11 Billy Corgan? So even me is my...
7:13 Speaker 01 That's so good.
7:15 Billy Corgan? Anytime.
7:16 Speaker 01 No, I really appreciate that.
7:17 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
7:17 Speaker 01 And you know I mean that.
7:18 Billy Corgan? I do. So tell me, tell me what were the things that you were seeing beyond the obvious that told you like, wow, this is really gonna take off?
7:27 Speaker 01 Well, our merch started, our merch started, Dising started doing like three times.
7:31 Billy Corgan? The merch don't lie, right?
7:33 Speaker 01 Merch don't lie, baby. You know?
7:35 Billy Corgan? The merch tells the tale.
7:37 Speaker 01 Hey.
7:39 Speaker 01 It really, you know, besides that, I knew with Slippery, it was the first time that we were really a band, really.
7:48 Billy Corgan? Okay.
7:49 Speaker 01 I mean, we spent years on the road, obviously, and years together, and took vacations together. We were idiots. And we didn't have, we still didn't have good songs because we didn't have an identity yet.
8:04 Billy Corgan? Okay.
8:05 Speaker 01 So, and I did not have a contract, and I still don't. I never changed it. Probably one of the most interesting deals in the business, by the way. But I just went, look, man, we make this a band. Oh, I gotta, you know, move on because it's like...
8:22 Billy Corgan? Was it in the beginning in your mind, was it more of a construct or was it a band? Does it make sense?
8:27 Speaker 01 It was a tribe.
8:29 Billy Corgan? Okay.
8:29 Speaker 01 I was in many bands. Record companies would come see like three bands in a week and I'd be in three of them now.
8:38 Billy Corgan? Just change your name.
8:39 Speaker 01 No, I'd be like, no.
8:44 Speaker 01 I'd be playing CDs or something like that.
8:46 Billy Corgan? Yeah, right, I get it, yeah.
8:47 Speaker 01 Gil just leaves on Friday.
8:49 Billy Corgan? Ross Alpin, you know Ross Alpin, the great Ross Alpin. He said he saw some flyer recently. Was the Richie something band?
8:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, Richie and Friends.
8:58 Billy Corgan? But it was maybe your birth name, your last?
9:00 Speaker 01 Richie and Friends, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's basically what, that's what I'd call my bands.
9:06 Billy Corgan? But it means, but like back in the day?
9:08 Speaker 01 Then when I got there, I'd say, ladies and gentlemen, it's the Cuban Yacht Club.
9:16 Speaker 01 It's Richie's number one, the Katy Perry dancers.
9:18 Billy Corgan? Yes.
9:19 Speaker 01 I would change the name.
9:20 Billy Corgan? Okay, but don't jump past my question. So what were the things that you were seeing? Because you have a front row seat. What are you seeing in the crowd? What are you seeing? You said the merch don't lie, but what else?
9:30 Speaker 01 No, it just, it was mania. It got to a point where it was, and it was, you know? People would just realize then they go, well, thank God, they finally got a good song for Christ's sake. You know what I mean? After all these years of like following them around.
9:47 Billy Corgan? What changed? Okay, so what changed in your mind that made, suddenly you went from we didn't have good songs to we had good songs?
9:53 Speaker 01 Well, MTV had a lot to do with it too. We cultivated MTV.
9:57 Billy Corgan? Sure.
9:57 Speaker 01 Certainly MTV's darling.
9:58 Billy Corgan? Can I tell you?
9:59 Speaker 01 It's only, it's only you.
10:00 Billy Corgan? Can I tell you an inside pumpkin's joke?
10:01 Speaker 01 You're good looking.
10:03 Billy Corgan? Can I tell you an inside pumpkin's joke?
10:05 Speaker 01 Sure.
10:07 Billy Corgan? You know, when you're making videos, right? And you've made many.
10:10 Speaker 01 Too many.
10:11 Billy Corgan? You have the meeting and what kind of video do you want to make? And so if they don't have a big budget, invariably, somebody wants to do the on the road video. You know, like, there you are backstage, thank you, there you are backstage, there you are on stage pointing.
10:25 Speaker 01 How many times we done that?
10:26 Billy Corgan? Okay, in the pumpkins, we called it the Bon Jovi video.
10:29 Speaker 01 There you go.
10:31 Billy Corgan? There we are stretching before the gig.
10:33 Speaker 01 But that was true, you know.
10:36 Billy Corgan? But that was an inside pumpkins joke.
10:37 Speaker 01 Oh, man, I don't know what happened to us. We were actually playing in Chicago. We're doing two nights at Soldier Field, right?
10:43 Billy Corgan? Right.
10:43 Speaker 01 And so, me and Bob are friends, right? So, he, he's great.
10:49 Billy Corgan? Bob, Bob.
10:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know, Kid Rock.
10:52 Billy Corgan? Oh, okay. When you say Bob, you know, the rest of us just know him as Kid Rock.
10:58 Speaker 01 I just happen to know him, you know, not that, that's like, no big deal or anything. So, anyway, I go, I think we do two nights, if you open up, man, you know, and it'll be good money. For an hour.
11:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
11:14 Speaker 01 You'll be happy.
11:15 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
11:16 Speaker 01 It's Soldier Field.
11:17 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
11:18 Speaker 01 We'll sell out two, two nights.
11:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
11:20 Speaker 01 Which we did.
11:21 Billy Corgan? Okay.
11:22 Speaker 01 And he was great. And he got, we gave him a bunch more gigs because of that. And we were able to do multiple nights.
11:26 Billy Corgan? Well, where are you trying to get at? Sorry, I'm just trying to understand.
11:28 Speaker 01 I don't know, what was I trying to hear?
11:30 Billy Corgan? You were bragging, I don't know. You were bragging.
11:33 Speaker 01 No, I wasn't, no, I wasn't bragging, I was just, it's just.
11:36 Billy Corgan? I think what I was trying to get at was, how did you get from, you said, we didn't, we didn't have good songs, then we had good songs, then you said videos, so I'm just trying to put those pieces together.
11:43 Speaker 01 Well, I knew we had the best record that we definitely ever made as a band, and the best sounding record with Bob Rock, who is still work with him religiously. And Bruce Ferbinger unfortunately passed away. Um, I said to myself, golly gee, I think we can make two million records out of this.
12:04 Billy Corgan? Right.
12:05 Speaker 01 Worldwide, I'm talking.
12:06 Billy Corgan? Right.
12:07 Speaker 01 You know, and we'll work our asses off, because we did every bit of press. Back then, there, it wasn't obviously social media and stuff like that, it was more. Journalistic newspapers, everything, whatever it took. And going to radio stations, obviously.
12:20 Billy Corgan? Right.
12:21 Speaker 01 You know, doing that was a big deal.
12:23 Billy Corgan? So the demand is there, the interest is there, but you guys are meeting the demand. And as you're feeling the demand coming, you're like, we better get even better songs, because it's...
12:31 Speaker 01 No, guy, beyond our control and security levels. Different things like that, like things you would never think of. You know what I mean?
12:40 Billy Corgan? People climbing through the sunlight.
12:41 Speaker 01 Just like crazy stuff. And you're just going about your daily job, basically, and doing...
12:45 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
12:46 Speaker 01 We said yes a lot to mostly everything and everywhere, but we did that beforehand, too, which seeded the garden for when we had a hit song.
12:57 Billy Corgan? Sure.
12:57 Speaker 01 We hit a song in 24 countries.
13:00 Billy Corgan? So I had to look this up because I did not know. As an institution, the Bon Jovi franchise has sold 130 million records. And to quote the lyric, "You have seen a million faces and you rock them all." I mean, that's pretty amazing.
13:17 Speaker 01 Thank you very much. It's more than that. But imagine the piracy, it's insane.
13:28 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah. No one wants to hear us complain about the money we lost.
13:31 Speaker 01 Maybe you. It's true.
13:34 Billy Corgan? Yeah, so, yeah, so what makes that number even more impressive is if you sold 130 million records that we know of.
13:41 Speaker 01 I was 17 that year, so I was pretty big. And we toured, you know what it's like when you take it that often, how much money?
13:53 Billy Corgan? Oh, no, you guys back in the day, you toured like crazy people. What was a, what was a normal run for you guys when you were young? Like, were you doing four in a row? No, but you were doing four in a row, or, you know, because like...
14:05 Speaker 01 No, we did five shows a week, and however they fit on a routing level to save that kind of money.
14:11 Billy Corgan? Because, you know...
14:12 Speaker 01 Because we were staying up to...
14:13 Billy Corgan? You guys are, those songs are high vocals, I mean, it's, you know...
14:16 Speaker 01 So it does, as that athletic event.
14:18 Billy Corgan? Yes.
14:18 Speaker 01 It truly is.
14:19 Billy Corgan? Yes, so you, you understand, and we understand, it's like, you know, you probably would have played seven days in a row if you could, right?
14:26 Speaker 01 I could.
14:27 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
14:29 Billy Corgan? Well, I'm, not that you don't sing, but as a lead singer of my band.
14:34 Speaker 01 You know what, I take that back.
14:40 Speaker 01 Because I've never done it for that long. I've been the lead singer, but I've obviously done my own tours for like three, four months at a clip and
14:52 Speaker 01 you know, play where I want to play, kind of thing.
14:55 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Yeah, no, I'd play seven days a week if I could. It's just
14:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know.
14:59 Billy Corgan? It's the vocal thing is.
15:00 Speaker 01 I never tried it, but I still take lessons.
15:05 Billy Corgan? Really?
15:05 Speaker 01 Of course.
15:08 Billy Corgan? Me, me, me, me, me?
15:09 Speaker 01 No, no. Yeah, all that. All that, yeah. Rigoletto, opera training.
15:14 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
15:15 Speaker 01 Yeah. I went, I went to see Andre Pacheco one day. Actually, Denise was here, my assistant, as a surprise, took me to see Andre. I love him. And he wanted to meet me and I go back there. And it's just like me and him. So I walked in, he said, "Hey, come here." And he's blind. He's taller than you. He's huge and skinny, not built like a normal.
15:36 Billy Corgan? Okay, yeah.
15:37 Speaker 01 And like we know each other forever.
15:39 Billy Corgan? Oh, okay.
15:40 Speaker 01 So he says, "I'm a little nervous tonight." "I'm a little nervous tonight."
15:45 Billy Corgan? Really?
15:45 Speaker 01 "I could hit nine high Cs in the second song." It's an aria, right? He says, "I'll show you." Sits down at the piano and just goes, bang, bangs them out. Like clears the bell, no problem. And I'm looking at him, I'm like,
16:05 Speaker 01 "Well, number one, you're not gonna have a problem. Number two, how'd you do that?"
16:10 Speaker 01 Because he had a lot of control.
16:11 Billy Corgan? That's a different level of chop.
16:13 Speaker 01 He goes, "But he should study his, you know." Just to get, 20 years just to get an opportunity in that world. That's tough.
16:21 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Yeah. I got trained by an opera singer once. That was interesting.
16:25 Speaker 01 Well, you know, what it did for me was, I don't know, it didn't increase too much, except my longevity.
16:36 Billy Corgan? Right. That's what I did learn from the opera teacher. I learned voice preservation.
16:41 Speaker 01 Basically, it's like going to the gym.
16:42 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah. It does, it does work. Okay. Bear with me here.
16:46 Speaker 01 I am.
16:47 Billy Corgan? No, you're gonna have to bear with me now.
16:49 Speaker 01 There's no bearing going on here. There's no bearing. Let's face it, I've got James Mason on.
16:56 Billy Corgan? My, my, my, my goal, as I was telling you a little bit before we started rolling is, you know, when I bring in somebody that I admire and respect, and you're certainly one of those people. But it, it's like, there's 8,000 interviews with you telling variations of the same stories. And to me, what most journalists, if I'm a journalist at this point, miss is the real experience of being in a big band.
17:25 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
17:26 Billy Corgan? Like, you know what I mean? They want to hear that, they want to hear the night that the group be broken through the skylight, but they don't want to hear about the night you rode on a bus for 16 hours and were bored out of your mind and...
17:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, and who wants to hear that story, actually, you know? I mean, entertainment should be based as entertainment, not what's behind it.
17:42 Billy Corgan? Sure, but we experience something different than what most people understand our experience is. When you were on the road, like, we did tour, we did one tour 20 months, you know what I mean? And you, I know you did those tours, like...
17:54 Speaker 01 Oh, 18 and a half months, you know?
17:56 Billy Corgan? You know, where you like...
17:57 Speaker 01 52 countries.
17:58 Billy Corgan? Hello, right?
18:00 Speaker 01 I'm still okay, there's no... It's unbelievable.
18:03 Billy Corgan? No damage.
18:05 Speaker 01 No damage whatsoever. Actually, I've seen and played better than that.
18:08 Billy Corgan? I won't say, "Sitting, looking at you, you look really good."
18:10 Speaker 01 Oh, look at me.
18:12 Billy Corgan? Handsome man, handsome man. It's, it's the genes. But, um, so, you know, we could sit here and tell, or you could tell war stories and I could say, you know, when Desmond Child, you know, to me, it's interesting and it's important, but at the same time, I'm more interested in your experience of being in the band.
18:33 Speaker 01 Yes.
18:34 Billy Corgan? And, and your navigation.
18:35 Speaker 01 Good for you.
18:36 Billy Corgan? Okay, thank you. I'm trying to come at it from a musician's point of view.
18:38 Speaker 01 Yes, that's good, fantastic.
18:39 Billy Corgan? So, bear with me here. So, I'm interested, because obviously, there's a bit of controversy, as the English would say, with the documentary coming out. And I want to talk about it, but not probably how most people would want to talk about it.
18:55 Billy Corgan? I'm interested in your version of your story and what I mean by that is is like, is your story a rags to riches to heartbreak and redemption? Is it you had it all and walked away from it all? Is it local Polish kid makes good? And he's still Richie from the neighborhood? Are you the handsome gunslinger who marries a Hollywood star and has a beautiful kid? You know,
19:18 Speaker 01 I was all of that.
19:21 Billy Corgan? All of the above. I love it.
19:23 Speaker 01 Duly noted.
19:24 Billy Corgan? But it's, you know, when I say it like that, it comes off like a Desmond Child song. You know what I mean? It's got, it's got a little bit of a ring to it, but I, I don't.
19:31 Speaker 01 Well, where did you think I get some of those lyrics from? Some of those stories from?
19:36 Billy Corgan? Very good.
19:36 Speaker 01 Called.
19:37 Billy Corgan? But my point of bringing this up this way because I feel like, first of all, you're, you're, you're a respected musician, but I think your real contribution musically is underappreciated. That's my perspective as a musician to musician.
19:50 Speaker 01 Thank you very much.
19:52 Billy Corgan? And in, thank you. But it's, it's a genuine thing, you know, I'm not a compliment giver. So, uh, but what I'm trying to get at is, you know, it's not like, what do you want to see on your tombstone? That's a little grim. It's like, what do you want?
20:08 Speaker 01 Well, companionless.
20:10 Billy Corgan? But he had a great time.
20:11 Speaker 01 I spent it all. No, I lived. That's what it means.
20:15 Billy Corgan? He lived.
20:15 Speaker 01 It's just a metaphor.
20:16 Billy Corgan? I get it. He lived.
20:17 Speaker 01 Obviously.
20:17 Billy Corgan? Right, but I'm saying is what's your version of that story? Because right now, uh, you know, look, we've all been in big bands here, the two of us, you know what I mean? And sometimes the story of the band becomes our story, but it's not our story.
20:34 Speaker 01 Because, yeah.
20:35 Billy Corgan? It gets a bit boring.
20:37 Speaker 01 And it's cliche and.
20:39 Billy Corgan? And you're not a cliche.
20:40 Speaker 01 No.
20:41 Billy Corgan? Right.
20:41 Speaker 01 I would, look, I was out of the band at that point for 12 years.
20:49 Speaker 01 I was actually doing a songwriting clinic at like Abbey Road with these young songwriters and stuff like that and they said, would you sit for a half hour?
20:56 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
20:57 Speaker 01 Which I don't.
20:57 Billy Corgan? Just a half an hour?
20:59 Speaker 01 Well, an hour.
21:00 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:01 Speaker 01 I don't remember. And I said, all right, you guys get going on that and walked in the studio, got all makeup. And I didn't even know what the premise of this thing was.
21:12 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:12 Speaker 01 I mean, I had a band for, it seemed like a halftime at that point.
21:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:16 Speaker 01 Most of the way.
21:17 Billy Corgan? That's a long time.
21:18 Speaker 01 Thirteen years or something, you know. And so I was like, okay. So I was, you know, trying to be funny and they, and the questions that were coming at me were unintelligent.
21:29 Billy Corgan? Right.
21:30 Speaker 01 And did not demand any depth of answer.
21:33 Billy Corgan? Sure.
21:36 Speaker 01 I'm like.
21:36 Billy Corgan? I haven't seen the doc, so.
21:37 Speaker 01 I said, cut.
21:40 Speaker 01 And I, and I talked to the director, who I really like, Deepak Chopra's grandson.
21:46 Billy Corgan? Okay.
21:46 Speaker 01 And he's talented.
21:48 Billy Corgan? And hopefully spiritual.
21:50 Speaker 01 You know, I didn't know what you guys were looking for. What are you looking for?
21:54 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:55 Speaker 01 And things like that.
21:56 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:56 Speaker 01 And.
21:56 Billy Corgan? I get it. Like, what's the point?
21:58 Speaker 01 None of it, none of it really got in the documentary.
22:02 Billy Corgan? Okay.
22:03 Speaker 01 Right. But.
22:06 Billy Corgan? Well, you ain't the one editing it.
22:08 Speaker 01 It was six and a half hours.
22:10 Billy Corgan? Okay.
22:11 Speaker 01 It was, it's, yeah, look. So it's the band's voice, it's the anniversary.
22:17 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
22:17 Speaker 01 We did some unbelievable things. Mention those, mention those things, show how, like, you're asking me.
22:26 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
22:26 Speaker 01 What that feeling was like?
22:27 Billy Corgan? That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm saying, what's your version of that feeling? Because that's what's interesting to me.
22:35 Speaker 01 Seven, eight, seven, eighty thousand happy, happy, happy people.
22:40 Billy Corgan? Rocking.
22:41 Speaker 01 For three hours.
22:42 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
22:43 Speaker 01 You know, taking them through.
22:45 Billy Corgan? Great songs, great playing.
22:47 Speaker 01 They're coming back.
22:48 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
22:49 Speaker 01 It's an event.
22:50 Billy Corgan? Yeah, and, and, and, you know, the band had its up and then the band had its down and the band went back up. That's, that's pretty rare, as you know.
22:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:58 Billy Corgan? I remember, I don't remember what the year was, but somewhere in there, late 90s, 2000, people were basically thought you guys were done.
23:05 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
23:06 Billy Corgan? Like, you know, like you be, you, you become the oldies act thing.
23:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that's just in this country.
23:11 Billy Corgan? No, I get that, but you know how America is, we don't think about other countries. You could be the biggest band in Greece and America wouldn't give two shits.
23:19 Speaker 01 It's so hard, so.
23:20 Billy Corgan? You know what that feels like, because I know what that feels like.
23:23 Speaker 01 I'm still on stadiums in 52 countries. Okay, so say tragedy strikes and 20 go down.
23:30 Billy Corgan? You're still good. Yeah, right?
23:32 Speaker 01 Who does that?
23:33 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
23:34 Speaker 01 That, that's where I was at.
23:35 Billy Corgan? Right, but you know.
23:36 Speaker 01 But being there.
23:37 Billy Corgan? Right.
23:38 Speaker 01 Was sensational.
23:39 Billy Corgan? But you know, this business of music runs basically out of this city, LA. If, if they, if, but if they believe it, they believe in, if they don't believe it, don't matter that you sold out in Poughkeepsie. They don't give two shits.
23:52 Speaker 01 They don't, they don't understand it, they're not on the right.
23:54 Billy Corgan? That's what I'm saying. So what I'm trying to understand is, in the meta-narrative, which is a bit of a modern way of putting it, you know, what's your arc in this thing, not even related to the Bon Jovi years? Like, what's your arc in this thing? Like, what's your version of your story?
24:13 Speaker 01 Just that I, I understand, oh, for sure.
24:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah, but you pick one, just pick one.
24:19 Speaker 01 Gratitude beyond, whatever I had to deal with,
24:25 Speaker 01 what I received was way beyond the love and the warmth.
24:30 Billy Corgan? So your relationship with the fans and what the fans gave you is very high?
24:34 Speaker 01 Very high.
24:34 Billy Corgan? Right, okay.
24:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, and also.
24:38 Speaker 01 I started to like, I understood the business.
24:42 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
24:42 Speaker 01 You know.
24:43 Billy Corgan? Well, you've done some stuff before.
24:44 Speaker 01 A couple of times.
24:45 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
24:46 Speaker 01 I had had three record deals before I met John.
24:49 Billy Corgan? Right.
24:50 Speaker 01 So I had, and my best, one of my best friends was going to law school.
24:55 Billy Corgan? Right.
24:56 Speaker 01 And he owned a studio that I used to work at.
24:58 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
25:00 Speaker 01 And then he went to law school and I joined the circus. I was in college. And I was, after two years I split, I was a psychology major. And my daughter just got her masters in psychology.
25:11 Billy Corgan? I saw that. Congratulations. That's a, that's a big deal. What's her discipline in psychology? Does she have one? You know, because some, some people are union and.
25:20 Speaker 01 She is.
25:22 Billy Corgan? Some people do it with trauma survivors.
25:23 Speaker 01 She's still in transition.
25:25 Billy Corgan? Oh, she's in that.
25:25 Speaker 01 Because she's going to be, going for a doctor.
25:28 Billy Corgan? That's amazing. Congratulations. That's a big deal.
25:30 Speaker 01 She told me she was gonna take a break. One of those kids that works the summers.
25:33 Billy Corgan? Okay.
25:35 Speaker 01 Well, you know, you don't have to do that, but I really admire what you're doing.
25:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
25:39 Speaker 01 Because she was keeping up with some very smart people, obviously.
25:45 Billy Corgan? But also, and.
25:46 Speaker 01 And excelling.
25:47 Billy Corgan? I think you understand this context. Not every kid who grows up in LA with rock star dad and, you know, Hollywood star mom goes on to do something with your life. So you must be triple proud.
26:00 Speaker 01 We, yeah, and I'm triple thankful, you know, more for anything because
26:07 Speaker 01 it just was myself and I, and I was, I'm a good dad. I pride myself on being a very good dad.
26:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
26:13 Speaker 01 I mean.
26:14 Billy Corgan? It's obvious.
26:15 Speaker 01 When you love somebody.
26:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
26:17 Speaker 01 You love them all the way.
26:19 Billy Corgan? It's obvious in poking around in your life in, in prep for this, how much you love your daughter.
26:23 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, no, we, we got it.
26:24 Billy Corgan? It's humbling because I have a young daughter, six years old, just turned six.
26:28 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, but you're good. It's gonna blossom.
26:30 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah. What do they say? Daddy's in the daughter's right now.
26:33 Speaker 01 Just, we just spent a lot of time with each other and then when I, we got divorced. She was nine and I, I went to a child psychologist and went, what are the things I can say and I can't say and those kind of things, you know?
26:51 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
26:53 Speaker 01 And I went. But this is gonna be great because I have a undivided attention. Instead of having to split it with anger and things like that that were existing in the marriage, right? So it became a different happy life.
27:11 Billy Corgan? That's interesting.
27:12 Speaker 01 You know, and I bought a smaller house for us.
27:16 Speaker 01 It was only a mile away from her mom.
27:18 Billy Corgan? Right.
27:19 Speaker 01 So it was like, not like I was.
27:21 Billy Corgan? Yeah, you weren't.
27:22 Speaker 01 Absconding.
27:23 Billy Corgan? Yeah, get it.
27:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, so that, and I just really talked to her. And the rubber man that I had with her was more like.
27:34 Speaker 01 Cause I watched it. What would you feel like if you, that was being done to you?
27:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
27:40 Speaker 01 She was just kinda acting out.
27:44 Billy Corgan? Sure, that's kids, yeah.
27:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, I understand that, but I go, cause when I'm gone, you're gonna have to do this yourself. And eventually what would happen?
27:53 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
27:54 Speaker 01 Would be that sometimes it take a day, sometimes it take a week, sometimes it take a little more.
28:01 Speaker 01 But she go apologize and work it out with her friend.
28:03 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
28:04 Speaker 01 So I was essentially, cause of all the time I spent on the road.
28:09 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
28:10 Speaker 01 Teaching her to self-parent.
28:12 Billy Corgan? Oh, okay.
28:12 Speaker 01 As much as possible.
28:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
28:14 Speaker 01 Without, but you can't do it like.
28:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah, that's not gonna work. You have to learn self-reliance.
28:19 Speaker 01 You gotta kind of.
28:20 Billy Corgan? Yeah, I mean, my kids are young, they're eight, eight and six, and I'm in that, I'm trying to get them to understand like, you're gonna have to figure some of this out on your own. I can't be here all the time.
28:29 Speaker 01 For everything.
28:30 Billy Corgan? Like nine to five dad, I'm not a nine to five dad, you know?
28:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, it can't be, just for, plus you need that time for yourself.
28:37 Billy Corgan? That's true.
28:38 Speaker 01 To enrich yourself.
28:39 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah.
28:39 Speaker 01 You know?
28:40 Billy Corgan? And not go crazy. I was listening to your, I think it's your recent single, Believe in Miracles.
28:47 Speaker 01 I got two more, one that just got.
28:50 Billy Corgan? Of course, of course you do, but I'm.
28:52 Speaker 01 Oh, that one.
28:53 Billy Corgan? I'm Believe in Miracles, please.
28:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's.
28:56 Billy Corgan? I like this lyric in this song. I really like the song a lot, too.
28:59 Speaker 01 Oh, right.
29:00 Billy Corgan? Sing a song for our future days, a song for the days we sung alone, a song for the laughter of tomorrow. Help me sing a song of hope. We gotta believe in miracles when you dream too much and too high.
29:13 Billy Corgan? I thought it was really, I felt that lyric.
29:17 Speaker 01 It seems like that sometimes, doesn't it?
29:19 Billy Corgan? Well, I'm not trying to put thoughts in your brain, so that's why I'm asking you, but it seems like,
29:26 Billy Corgan? you know, when you experience, you know, you're playing eighty thousand people in Russia or wherever you were playing, you know, I mean, there's an adrenaline.
29:35 Speaker 01 And it's like, what mountain?
29:37 Billy Corgan? Yeah, right, okay.
29:38 Speaker 01 That's the.
29:39 Billy Corgan? Okay, well, at some point, and I'm not even talking about
29:44 Billy Corgan? you leave that situation behind. I'm talking about at some point, you're gonna be alone on a Sunday. You look in the mirror and you gotta like, you gotta find something to hold on to. Because once you've achieved those highs and you've felt that dopamine rush, it's, it's not, you're not gonna find it in normal life. You're not gonna find it going down to grab a coffee.
30:04 Speaker 01 I, no, not, not at all, not that, but I have found that, you know, what, because I left the band, obviously.
30:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
30:13 Speaker 01 It just.
30:14 Billy Corgan? You left, you left the band? No one told me.
30:16 Speaker 01 No one heard that?
30:19 Speaker 01 Did you hear about that?
30:20 Billy Corgan? I saw, I heard about the documentary.
30:23 Speaker 01 Thirteen hours.
30:24 Billy Corgan? I think about four hours into the Bon Jovi documentary, they mentioned that you left the band.
30:28 Speaker 01 It's unbelievable. But here another.
30:31 Billy Corgan? Sorry.
30:32 Speaker 01 Once again, that, it's all perspective, right?
30:36 Billy Corgan? God bless.
30:36 Speaker 01 It said, Marcus really said that. It's, you know,
30:42 Speaker 01 it's, it's not a thought, it's a perspective.
30:46 Billy Corgan? Interesting.
30:46 Speaker 01 Which is a.
30:47 Billy Corgan? So, okay.
30:48 Speaker 01 The difference between that. So, but I have a different perspective.
30:52 Billy Corgan? What keeps you, I mean, because I, this is what I read, like, what keeps you? Is it God? Is it family? Is it music? All of the above? Like, what keeps you when you really need to refocus?
31:05 Speaker 01 Obviously, it's a, you know.
31:11 Speaker 01 Has a lot to do with my daughter.
31:13 Billy Corgan? Right.
31:14 Speaker 01 It has a lot to do with my love and passion for music because I'm self-taught.
31:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:20 Speaker 01 I read a lot. I like to read. I just got my cataracts done and then it's fantastic. I could read better again. I still need readers, but my, I see stuff that I never haven't seen in my life. Because I grew up in a swamp in New Jersey.
31:36 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:37 Speaker 01 Pollution, you know?
31:38 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:39 Speaker 01 So that was, I mean, things like that are happening and it's just, and as far as business goes, you know, I, I, I saved my money. I did the right thing with it. And um,
31:53 Speaker 01 I don't have to do it for the money.
31:56 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:56 Speaker 01 You know, that was, that was the main thing. It's like, where did I start? Why did I get into this in the first place? Joy. Then you have to do all this stuff and from full circle and you're not quite back to joy yet.
32:14 Speaker 01 And
32:17 Speaker 01 that's what you shoot for.
32:18 Billy Corgan? Yeah. I read this interesting-
32:20 Speaker 01 To be that free as an artist and not care about these trappings, you know?
32:25 Billy Corgan? I read this interesting piece once by David Mamet, the great playwright.
32:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:29 Billy Corgan? And he said, you know, in the beginning, when you're an artist, you're free. You have complete freedom. And you beg for an opportunity and invariably somebody says, hey, sign this. And you sign away something and then you spend the next-
32:43 Speaker 01 You don't know what is at the time.
32:45 Billy Corgan? Well, you don't realize how valuable it is and they wouldn't have you signing it. And then you spend thirty, forty years of your life trying to get back to that freedom. So it reminds me, it's the same thing, right? You, you, you came in because you love music and to me, you know, you strike me like, myself, like we're lifers.
33:02 Speaker 01 Oh.
33:02 Billy Corgan? It's just like-
33:03 Speaker 01 Where are you gonna go?
33:03 Billy Corgan? There's no-
33:04 Speaker 01 Are we gonna fuck around with our sailboat somewhere?
33:06 Billy Corgan? There's no not music.
33:07 Speaker 01 I don't even have a sailboat. I don't know about you.
33:09 Billy Corgan? We're not David Crosby yet, but maybe we'll get there. Me and you like with the samboras on the yacht.
33:17 Billy Corgan? Sailing, we'll go down and visit Sammy in Cabo and.
33:20 Speaker 01 With fabulous women in bikinis.
33:23 Billy Corgan? Well, that's.
33:24 Speaker 01 Serving us martinis.
33:25 Billy Corgan? That's not a pumpkin song, that's a Bon Jovi song.
33:28 Speaker 01 Oh, you can, you can, you can dress them any way you want them.
33:30 Billy Corgan? Well, in our songs, they're dressed in goth, you know, flowing, flowing gods.
33:34 Speaker 01 I like that too. I do.
33:38 Billy Corgan? What do they say, whatever floats your boat?
33:40 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, you know what? With music, there was so much good music that was, you know, coming out when I was coming of age. Late 60s. I was absorbing.
33:55 Billy Corgan? You're just, you know, we're, we're, we're close in age.
33:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:59 Billy Corgan? You're just, you're like my older brother, but my point is, is.
34:02 Speaker 01 Which is lovely.
34:03 Billy Corgan? But, so I was born in 67, you would have been born 60.
34:06 Speaker 01 I was born in 59.
34:07 Billy Corgan? Okay, so the era you grew up musically, I mean, come on.
34:11 Speaker 01 I had it, it was looking Hendrix and Dylan.
34:15 Billy Corgan? Ridiculous.
34:16 Speaker 01 Beatles.
34:17 Billy Corgan? And in New York. And in New York, I mean.
34:19 Speaker 01 And everybody.
34:21 Billy Corgan? Well, everybody comes to New York.
34:22 Speaker 01 Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Hendrix, it's like, everybody, everybody works in New York, that's what I'm saying. When I said that I had that tunnel, my mother used to let me go to New York City.
34:34 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
34:35 Speaker 01 Cause I never left the building.
34:37 Billy Corgan? I get you.
34:38 Speaker 01 That's the reason she let me go.
34:39 Billy Corgan? Ah.
34:40 Speaker 01 And I would go to, I'd stand there in line to get Gabriel tickets and stand there in line to get Zeppelin tickets and, and then go back and it was like, like, I'm tired.
34:51 Billy Corgan? Did you ever, uh, did you ever get tired of meeting your heroes or does this still, does it still hit you?
34:56 Speaker 01 Of course. Every time, even when I.
34:59 Billy Corgan? Who's, who's somebody that you would meet and geek out for?
35:04 Speaker 01 Oh, anytime I'm with Jimmy Page, I geek out. Anytime I'm with Paul McCartney, I geek out.
35:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
35:09 Speaker 01 Bob Dylan, I'm geeking pretty heavy with them, you know?
35:15 Speaker 01 I mean, The Who.
35:17 Billy Corgan? Right.
35:18 Speaker 01 Pete. Pete and Roger.
35:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
35:20 Speaker 01 Those guys. What?
35:22 Billy Corgan? And Pete's so smart, it's like, you feel like you're going to science class. It's cool, right?
35:27 Speaker 01 I tell you, it's just.
35:27 Billy Corgan? It's one of the great indulgences of our, of our job.
35:30 Speaker 01 Yep, to be fair, the Rolling Stones.
35:32 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
35:33 Speaker 01 That was when we're done was on my second solo album, on Discover Soul, and we're just running a hair late. Because I was taking on, I was playing on a, I was playing on all these different records, as I was doing that.
35:47 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
35:48 Speaker 01 And the Stones started their record, so I had the opportunity to kind of like.
35:54 Billy Corgan? Hang around.
35:56 Speaker 01 He said.
35:58 Billy Corgan? I've heard they're kind of.
35:59 Speaker 01 A corner, a dark corner of the control.
36:01 Billy Corgan? I've heard they're kind of finicky about that.
36:03 Speaker 01 Well, they don't, they just don't hire any people, they got enough.
36:06 Billy Corgan? Well, yeah.
36:06 Speaker 01 You would imagine.
36:07 Billy Corgan? I can imagine.
36:08 Speaker 01 So anyway.
36:09 Billy Corgan? So you're hiding in the corner.
36:10 Speaker 01 So, yeah, so.
36:12 Billy Corgan? Then anyone spot you?
36:12 Speaker 01 It was then, Don said, hey, you know, because they didn't think much of Bon Jovi, there just wasn't a cup of tea.
36:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
36:20 Speaker 01 But it don't bother me, I still, I still love them, I don't care what anybody says, I still listen to all their records.
36:27 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
36:27 Speaker 01 Constantly, they were so well-produced.
36:29 Billy Corgan? Amazing.
36:30 Speaker 01 So well-arranged.
36:31 Billy Corgan? It was a great Jimmy, Jimmy Miller. Jimmy Miller.
36:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know, like.
36:37 Billy Corgan? And Andrew Lou Goldman was kind of a visionary, maybe not the guest producer, but, you know, very interesting kind of vibe.
36:44 Speaker 01 Ah, their records continue to astound me to this day.
36:48 Billy Corgan? Glenn Johns, and he produced, yeah, he also produced Who stuff.
36:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:52 Billy Corgan? Great, great talent.
36:53 Speaker 01 Amazing talent.
36:54 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
36:55 Speaker 01 But the songs, Jesus.
36:56 Billy Corgan? Oh, come on, it's not fair.
36:58 Speaker 01 God.
36:59 Billy Corgan? It's not fair.
36:59 Speaker 01 It's not even fair, after a while.
37:02 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
37:03 Speaker 01 They're all.
37:03 Billy Corgan? And of course, you've heard the stories how they would just party for days and just jam and.
37:08 Speaker 01 I know, and they were about a buck twenty-five a piece.
37:10 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah, just kind of, songs would emerge out of the morass of this.
37:16 Speaker 01 I went to see them every time, it was one of those bands that I saw every time.
37:21 Billy Corgan? Right.
37:22 Speaker 01 Had to.
37:22 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
37:23 Speaker 01 It was that, it was that kind of.
37:24 Billy Corgan? Okay, go back to your story, because this is a good story, so Don was.
37:27 Speaker 01 So, yeah, they were recording Crystal, so then Don said, hey, why don't you listen to my stuff, because I had like, I've got like Billy Preston and.
37:38 Speaker 01 Cats.
37:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
37:39 Speaker 01 You know, like, but it it sounds like a band.
37:42 Billy Corgan? Okay.
37:43 Speaker 01 You know what I mean?
37:43 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
37:44 Speaker 01 I give good band.
37:45 Billy Corgan? Okay.
37:46 Speaker 01 I always have.
37:48 Speaker 01 That's not sexual, but. But so, so, so then I was allowed
37:56 Speaker 01 to come in and hang out while they were cutting.
37:57 Billy Corgan? That's cool.
37:58 Speaker 01 Which was so beautiful to watch.
38:02 Billy Corgan? Is this, is, is, is Bill Wyman still in the band at this point?
38:05 Speaker 01 No, no.
38:06 Billy Corgan? He's post.
38:06 Speaker 01 Daryl's with.
38:07 Billy Corgan? Daryl's.
38:07 Speaker 01 Who, who played on my record.
38:09 Billy Corgan? I, I know Daryl from Chicago. Daryl's lovely guy.
38:11 Speaker 01 Lovely to play with Miles. You know, very, hello.
38:15 Billy Corgan? He's okay.
38:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's just all right. He's right, and he's just a beautiful cat, too.
38:19 Billy Corgan? Love him.
38:20 Speaker 01 So, but I'm watching and it was fun to watch them, how they started up.
38:24 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
38:25 Speaker 01 Keith was really good just getting, he, they all had understudies.
38:32 Billy Corgan? Right.
38:32 Speaker 01 Very interesting. I'm sorry if I'm giving your secrets away. But, you know, Charlie was alive, he had Kelly.
38:37 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
38:38 Speaker 01 Right? Waddy.
38:40 Billy Corgan? Right.
38:40 Speaker 01 You know? And Keith said Keith had Waddy and everybody else didn't have anybody.
38:47 Billy Corgan? Okay.
38:48 Speaker 01 Kind of thing. They'd get a riff and a groove going. And tape is, they're doing it.
38:54 Billy Corgan? We just run tape all day.
38:55 Speaker 01 I'm looking at Don and I'm seeing piles.
38:58 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
38:59 Speaker 01 You're gonna have to go through that stuff.
39:00 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
39:01 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
39:02 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
39:02 Speaker 01 And we're really good friends at this point, Don and I, you know? So then it's me and Don, Keith are listening and mixes. I'm sitting there. This is surreal. Keith's.
39:14 Speaker 01 You know, if Brian didn't jump, I would have pushed him. Sorry about Brian Jones. I went, oh, it's cold.
39:22 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah.
39:23 Speaker 01 Brian was great, I thought. I mean, he had a lot in that band.
39:27 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
39:28 Speaker 01 You know, I mean, everybody, there's so much music there. God bless him. Go Mick.
39:34 Billy Corgan? Hey.
39:35 Speaker 01 Unbelievable.
39:37 Billy Corgan? I mean.
39:38 Speaker 01 I have heroes. They're all my heroes. They're, they're still my heroes.
39:42 Billy Corgan? Mick's a hero in many regards. Right? We all should be so lucky as we age.
39:49 Speaker 01 His, and his business acumen has, has, has taught me that it's cool to know the business.
39:57 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah. Nothing, nothing wrong, nothing wrong with know what you're signing away or signing.
40:02 Speaker 01 Or what you're getting.
40:06 Billy Corgan? I don't want to, you know, let's go back to the beginning, but I get the sense that you're
40:11 Speaker 01 You can, Billy.
40:11 Billy Corgan? Well, okay, but I read some stuff, so you know, it's who knows what you read, but it was talking about the loss of your father, Adam, and your mother. Is your mother Joan still alive?
40:21 Speaker 01 Yes.
40:22 Billy Corgan? God bless.
40:22 Speaker 01 I've just, I've been, I've stayed with her for five weeks. She's 88.
40:26 Billy Corgan? Amazing.
40:27 Speaker 01 I, first thing I did, I'm very proud of this, I'm not bragging, first thing I did when I made money.
40:35 Billy Corgan? Like a good boy would.
40:36 Speaker 01 Got my little father out of the swamp.
40:38 Billy Corgan? Yeah, God bless.
40:39 Speaker 01 And
40:40 Billy Corgan? It must have been a proud, must have been a proud day in your life.
40:43 Speaker 01 For me.
40:44 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
40:44 Speaker 01 The house that I, my partner used to let me stay at, and I told him I was gonna buy it from him. I got some DASH.
40:51 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
40:52 Speaker 01 And I bought it off cash, knocked it down, rebuilt it for my parents.
40:58 Billy Corgan? Right.
40:59 Speaker 01 And designed it, a boat, couple of jet skis, Cadillac, Lincoln.
41:04 Billy Corgan? Nice.
41:06 Speaker 01 Sold their house, put that money in the bank for them, and went, you're done, I've retired you. I'm going back to work.
41:14 Billy Corgan? Wow. Proud day.
41:17 Speaker 01 Proud day. First thing I ever did with money and
41:20 Billy Corgan? I tried, I tried that with my, uh
41:22 Speaker 01 You know what else it does? It shuts them up.
41:27 Billy Corgan? Well, I tried that with my mother and she told me no.
41:30 Speaker 01 She didn't take it from you.
41:32 Billy Corgan? But, uh
41:32 Speaker 01 My mother tried to, no, you know what? My mother tried to not take it from me too. And my dad was like, my dad was working two jobs, man, for like 18 years.
41:41 Billy Corgan? I'm ready, I'm ready.
41:42 Speaker 01 We would love a mother.
41:43 Billy Corgan? So where, where's your mom living?
41:45 Speaker 01 One plus in New Jersey.
41:47 Billy Corgan? She still wants to be up northeast?
41:49 Speaker 01 You know what?
41:50 Billy Corgan? She likes the weather? I mean, I thought you were gonna say Florida, you know?
41:53 Speaker 01 It's just, this place, it's on a river, it's just
41:56 Billy Corgan? Okay.
41:57 Speaker 01 peaceful.
41:57 Billy Corgan? I get you.
41:58 Speaker 01 And
41:59 Billy Corgan? That's what she knows.
42:00 Speaker 01 When I was like 19, I had a partner, and he had owned 13 houses you could own in the 70s.
42:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
42:08 Speaker 01 And ride them all.
42:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
42:09 Speaker 01 That America was doing that for you.
42:11 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
42:11 Speaker 01 And so it was this beautiful house on the river, but it wasn't that beautiful or big, very, uh, I could take care of it myself.
42:20 Billy Corgan? Sure.
42:21 Speaker 01 You know, but I had freedom to play at night. My house was this big. My grandparents lived upstairs. We lived here, a kitchen, a living room, and one bathroom. Thank God, a basement.
42:38 Billy Corgan? So you're down there with the black.
42:39 Speaker 01 I was down there playing with my bands and my mother let my mother and father let me do that and that was cool. They they loved music. They were ballroom dancers. They weren't.
42:49 Billy Corgan? Oh, okay.
42:50 Speaker 01 At one point, yeah, that's how they met, dancing. So music was always.
42:56 Billy Corgan? I love it.
42:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:01 Billy Corgan? I'm I'm not trying to be morbid, but it's it's it's it is a personal question and you can jump around it if you want. But I I I looked at the dates of when your father passed and I looked at the data when you left Jovi. And it was about five years, right? And the reason I bring it up is my mother passed away in ninety six. And five years, almost like five years to the date, I just lost it. It I had this like weird delayed reaction. Did that happen to you?
43:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:33 Billy Corgan? It's almost like a bomb went off in my head. I thought I was.
43:36 Speaker 01 Couple of time puddles.
43:37 Billy Corgan? I thought it was like cool, you know, I mean, like you're good.
43:40 Speaker 01 I I thought that was it was releasing, yeah, it was releasing tremendous grief.
43:44 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Did you did you have a delayed reaction to grief?
43:47 Speaker 01 Yes.
43:48 Billy Corgan? Isn't that an interesting phenomenon?
43:50 Speaker 01 I explained that to my daughter. I said, sometimes you'll wake up and everything's going great and then you'll have a thought.
43:58 Billy Corgan? And then boom.
43:59 Speaker 01 And puddles.
43:59 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
44:00 Speaker 01 And it's okay.
44:01 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
44:02 Speaker 01 It's better.
44:02 Billy Corgan? Your father had cancer, is it?
44:04 Speaker 01 Yeah. It was a greaser from the fifties. They didn't know any better.
44:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
44:09 Speaker 01 And he smoked the worst, like lucky he's no filter.
44:11 Billy Corgan? Yeah, my mother same thing.
44:13 Speaker 01 Three packs.
44:14 Billy Corgan? My mother same thing.
44:15 Speaker 01 Can't do the lungs that did and luckily I was in investment with the the head of M D Anderson, which is the largest cancer center in America. I invested with him in a few different things. He was in this group I was in and.
44:33 Speaker 01 Herb and Herb, you can't get in there for like six months.
44:38 Billy Corgan? Right.
44:39 Speaker 01 And I happened to be with Denise Richards at the time. And her mother had lung cancer too. From smoking, almost similar ages. And I go, just get on a plane and meet me in Houston. And I called on Friday and we were in on that Monday.
44:55 Billy Corgan? Right.
44:56 Speaker 01 Just her, because friends, you know, and business partners.
45:00 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
45:01 Speaker 01 A few different things.
45:03 Billy Corgan? So.
45:04 Speaker 01 Works.
45:05 Billy Corgan? In, in this, because again, I don't care.
45:10 Speaker 01 But it does come back. I actually wrote a song, Seven Years Gone.
45:14 Billy Corgan? Okay.
45:15 Speaker 01 About that.
45:15 Billy Corgan? That, because I.
45:16 Speaker 01 And I brought you that album, actually.
45:18 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
45:19 Speaker 01 I did.
45:19 Billy Corgan? Um, I, I, because the reason I thought of it is, is like, you know, people always go to the lowest hanging fruit of any situation like, oh, you left your band, why, what happened and this and, and, and they often miss is that there's this, like a river, there's underlying things going on. Life goes on.
45:41 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:41 Billy Corgan? Like, we're getting older.
45:42 Speaker 01 The same life.
45:43 Billy Corgan? We're getting older, we got kids, this other things going on.
45:46 Speaker 01 I wrote a thyme song the other day and it said, the poorest and the richest still needed an ambulance.
45:53 Billy Corgan? Yeah, right.
45:54 Speaker 01 It doesn't, you know, just because you're a rock and roll star or you're a successful musician, um, you're gonna have the same problems that everybody else has.
46:06 Billy Corgan? So, so in, in this, if you follow my thought on this, if, if there's this delayed grief, did you have that moment where you're like, not what am I doing with my life? But I, a lot of my life is flying by here. My father's gone, my mom ain't getting any younger, you know?
46:25 Billy Corgan? Did it, was there a kind of a cumulative effect for you where like, well, I need to kind of, does it make sense the way I'm putting it?
46:31 Speaker 01 Well, yeah. But no, the definitive cumulative effect, literally, was I was having a mental health issue with my ex.
46:41 Billy Corgan? Right.
46:42 Speaker 01 And that was, and I was leaving my young daughter, who was very bright and beautiful.
46:51 Billy Corgan? She would have been around what age?
46:52 Speaker 01 Um, just exactly what the child psychologist told me, about nine.
47:00 Billy Corgan? Okay.
47:00 Speaker 01 They're gonna start realizing things.
47:03 Billy Corgan? Okay.
47:03 Speaker 01 Nine, ten.
47:04 Billy Corgan? So you're at this point of like,
47:05 Speaker 01 Well, now the,
47:06 Billy Corgan? Yes.
47:07 Speaker 01 Explain Lucy, you know, that, that point.
47:10 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
47:11 Speaker 01 And it, I'm like, I, I actually enjoyed therapy, I was a psych major. And I went to a child therapist, I said, I'm just brushing up, but, what can and what can't, what would be
47:27 Billy Corgan? Sure.
47:28 Speaker 01 the proper thing to do for this goal.
47:30 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
47:30 Speaker 01 At the end of the day.
47:31 Billy Corgan? Here's where my focus is.
47:32 Speaker 01 Yes. And she basically said, you can't say nothing.
47:37 Billy Corgan? That's gonna be hard for you.
47:38 Speaker 01 No, it's true. You can, you can, you can say about the time you spend, but not her mom. Can't say anything about that. They have to realize these things for themselves. And I said, oh, okay. You know?
47:54 Billy Corgan? Right.
47:54 Speaker 01 It was, it was that kind of thing. And I have a great rapport with her, I mean, we're, we're even closer than ever, I don't know how that can happen, but we're just, we're just ourselves, you know? It's like, it's okay.
48:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
48:07 Speaker 01 Like, there's a bunch of stuff over here that was taken care of for you out of love, you know?
48:13 Billy Corgan? If I'm oversimplifying, you're, you're still in process of grief over your father, you're dealing with issues at home, you're in a band at that point for X number of years, you toured, your brain's out. You know, you've had all the success that anybody could have. Like, at least put me emotionally at the crossroads you were at.
48:32 Speaker 01 Oh, I felt like, um,
48:37 Speaker 01 John was changing his focus and he often wanted to, you know, be a solo artist. And I go, can you make a solo? Well, I made five, I think, you know, and toured.
48:49 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
48:50 Speaker 01 And enjoy it, you know, immensely.
48:52 Billy Corgan? Was it that he was trying to turn the band into a solo band? Is that makes any sense?
48:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, it seemed, it seemed like he was, well, he was definitely changing directions. I came off the road with the aftermath of Lowdown record that I did, which was an independent release. And I brought you one.
49:07 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
49:07 Speaker 01 Just because I.
49:09 Billy Corgan? I was listening to some of it today.
49:10 Speaker 01 Just a little thank you.
49:11 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
49:12 Speaker 01 And it was out tuned, I had great musicians. And he said, all of a sudden, nah, you don't gotta worry about it. John Shanks and I wrote like thirty songs and.
49:25 Billy Corgan? Wow.
49:26 Speaker 01 And I went.
49:27 Billy Corgan? Hello.
49:27 Speaker 01 Oh, that hurt a little bit.
49:29 Billy Corgan? That hurt me.
49:30 Speaker 01 It hurt.
49:31 Billy Corgan? Hello.
49:32 Speaker 01 Now, here's a process of like thirty-one years of it going, not just well. Like, you can't even think about well.
49:40 Billy Corgan? You did okay.
49:42 Speaker 01 The well meter is well beyond the meter.
49:45 Billy Corgan? You're in the red.
49:46 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? And I got nothing but gratitude for the opportunity.
49:51 Billy Corgan? Yeah, you know. Yeah.
49:52 Speaker 01 And that just, it shook me a little bit, but I said, I said, what do you got? And it didn't sound like Bon Jovi. It sounded like the band.
50:01 Billy Corgan? What did it sound like to you like?
50:02 Speaker 01 I don't, it sounded like every song that I didn't want to write or something.
50:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
50:08 Speaker 01 It just, it was.
50:09 Billy Corgan? I hope you take this as a compliment, because I really mean it as a compliment.
50:14 Billy Corgan? If you sat me in a room and you said, here's all the Bon Jovi songs.
50:23 Billy Corgan? Pick the ones you like and you'd be okay with on a desert island. And discard the ones that you just don't have any connection to. So I know those songs because I've heard them. And, you know, even I've found deep cuts that I like and stuff like that. And it's one of those things where I've grown to appreciate the band even more as I've gotten older. Maybe at the time, the hair metal-y kind of times, you know, the grunge thing, we were all kind of like, ah. It felt so oppressive to us, you know what I mean?
50:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, they have to be categorized.
50:53 Billy Corgan? It was in our, right, but you know, for us in that generation, it was in our face with MTV.
50:58 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
50:58 Billy Corgan? Every time we turned around, you guys had really big hair and you looked really cool and you had hot girls, you know? And we were like, you know, in clubs. So I'm saying-
51:05 Speaker 01 It was working.
51:06 Billy Corgan? Right, but, but you understand the joke I'm making, which is like-
51:09 Speaker 01 Of course.
51:10 Billy Corgan? It's a generational thing to just reject whatever is there. It's not even personal.
51:14 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
51:15 Billy Corgan? Like, I liked a lot of your songs, but it was like, get out of the way.
51:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, but it wasn't cool, too.
51:20 Billy Corgan? Sure, but I'm saying now that I'm older and I look back, there's a lot of stuff there that I really like. I mean, genuinely, I think this is great.
51:28 Speaker 01 Well, thank you.
51:29 Billy Corgan? Okay, so when I was listening to a lot of your solo work in preparing for today's interview, it was like, I had this feeling, I'm getting chills, and I hope you take it as a compliment. I was like, this is the Bon Jovi that I like. Where is this Bon Jovi? And then it's like, ah, it's Richie-
51:49 Speaker 01 Thank you.
51:49 Billy Corgan? -that I like in this mix. The magic is Richie in the mix.
51:55 Speaker 01 And-
51:55 Billy Corgan? And the musician in me goes, it's that, the way you synergize blues, pop, other influences-
52:03 Speaker 01 Well, look at you. You did the same thing. My God, you infiltrated so many different genres, and that's what I'd love-
52:09 Billy Corgan? I'm a thief in the night.
52:10 Speaker 01 That's what I've loved about your records.
52:11 Billy Corgan? Thank you, thank you.
52:12 Speaker 01 I couldn't wait to see what you were gonna, well, what you-
52:15 Billy Corgan? How it was gonna destroy my career next.
52:17 Speaker 01 What really you were gonna pull, artistically.
52:20 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
52:20 Speaker 01 No, I mean that.
52:21 Billy Corgan? I appreciate that.
52:22 Speaker 01 You would change your voice.
52:23 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
52:24 Speaker 01 And, uh-
52:25 Billy Corgan? Why, I, you know, when you sing, when you sing like a reggae, you have to, you have to figure some stuff out.
52:30 Speaker 01 Sheila, Daphne.
52:32 Billy Corgan? Thank you, thank you.
52:33 Speaker 01 All those records were phenomenal.
52:35 Billy Corgan? Okay, we've, we've entered the, we've entered the final stretch of our psychological dissertation here.
52:40 Speaker 01 Okay.
52:44 Billy Corgan? I want to talk real quick because I was sort of fascinated and I it was hard to find some information. I saw something about so the band was called Message, right?
52:53 Speaker 01 Yes.
52:54 Billy Corgan? 1982. I saw somewhere where it said you were signed to Swan Song and then I saw somewhere where it was like a failed. So give me the story on that real quick.
53:04 Speaker 01 Well, I got signed to Swan Song like nineteen and a half.
53:06 Billy Corgan? You must have been freaking out.
53:07 Speaker 01 I was like, "Zepplin, man, what are you kidding me?" I go.
53:11 Billy Corgan? Did you get to meet them?
53:12 Speaker 01 No, not then.
53:13 Billy Corgan? Okay.
53:14 Speaker 01 Not then.
53:14 Billy Corgan? But was there a contact?
53:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:16 Billy Corgan? Who was your contact with that?
53:17 Speaker 01 I was in the studio, Mitch Fox, Sam Azner.
53:21 Billy Corgan? Okay.
53:22 Speaker 01 And Stephen Mars was the lawyer.
53:24 Billy Corgan? Okay, and you're in what studio at this point?
53:25 Speaker 01 Uh, lots of different ones. I was in Power Station.
53:29 Billy Corgan? Okay.
53:29 Speaker 01 I was in, uh, what's the one on 57th, dealing with church media.
53:34 Billy Corgan? Okay, okay, so.
53:35 Speaker 01 A bunch.
53:36 Billy Corgan? Put me in the room with Message because there's not a lot of information about it.
53:39 Speaker 01 Well, it started out, it was a bunch of guys that had a band in New York and they were looking for guitar player and I got in. And the name of the band was Screaming Mimi's for a while.
53:50 Billy Corgan? Okay.
53:50 Speaker 01 It was a punky kind of New Yorker's, it's musically finest.
53:55 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:56 Speaker 01 I believe.
53:57 Billy Corgan? Okay.
53:57 Speaker 01 Max's and.
53:59 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
53:59 Speaker 01 Everything was, I was playing Guilds to lose a couple nights a week, you know, and just all around town. And that name wasn't working and tried another name that wasn't working. But we had the label and just Led Zeppelin and that was everything. And they were serious.
54:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
54:16 Speaker 01 And they put up the money.
54:18 Billy Corgan? So did it, did it ever, I know it came out later, but again, that's.
54:22 Speaker 01 No, you know what?
54:22 Billy Corgan? The information is really messy online.
54:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, that never came out yet. The, um.
54:27 Billy Corgan? Okay.
54:28 Speaker 01 But I am planning on recording a song from that era.
54:31 Billy Corgan? What, why didn't it work? I'm just curious because because the reason, the real story is.
54:35 Speaker 01 Business, the label blew up.
54:37 Billy Corgan? Okay.
54:38 Speaker 01 You know, Jimmy and Robert and all that.
54:39 Billy Corgan? Okay.
54:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, and they were running the label and Bad Company was on the label, it was like they were my label, man.
54:46 Billy Corgan? There were a couple of other bands that were on the label that were kind of good.
54:48 Speaker 01 Uh, Frank Corleone, that's it.
54:51 Billy Corgan? There's a name that.
54:52 Speaker 01 How do I remember that? I don't know.
54:54 Billy Corgan? You were there.
54:55 Speaker 01 And he was, he was very good, but there was like. You know, to try to get Peter Grant, I mean, Peter Grant's attention was.
55:04 Billy Corgan? Hello.
55:05 Speaker 01 People would wait a month.
55:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
55:07 Speaker 01 Downstairs, at his house.
55:09 Billy Corgan? Really?
55:10 Speaker 01 What? I'm not kidding, like, employees.
55:15 Billy Corgan? All right, final stretch. It's not as cheesy as, hey, look at the camera and tell Bon Chovy fans what you want them to know. But I feel like there's like, let's call it the cheesy version of like, you know, I still love you. And like, what don't they under, maybe this question, what don't they understand about the story?
55:38 Billy Corgan? Like, what's the missing?
55:39 Speaker 01 I like the first part of that question, because I don't like to accuse anybody of not understanding, because everybody has their own perspective.
55:46 Billy Corgan? Sure.
55:46 Speaker 01 On understanding, right? But all I would say, sincerity.
55:55 Speaker 01 Beyond the image, beyond what you might think, beyond what you even might have heard or read. It's, I'm a sincere musician and sincere artist, and I will try my hardest till I'm dead.
56:11 Speaker 01 Like Billy said, that's it, but it's really sincere. I love it.
56:14 Billy Corgan? That's the you I know. I don't know you well, but that's the you I know. You're a straight shooter.
56:19 Speaker 01 You know me well.
56:20 Billy Corgan? Okay, and we have mutual friends and they speak very highly of you.
56:25 Speaker 01 And vice versa.
56:26 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
56:27 Speaker 01 And rightfully so.
56:28 Billy Corgan? Right.
56:29 Speaker 01 On your end.
56:30 Billy Corgan? That's the part, I guess, but that's the part that sort of annoys me, because I see the clickbaity stuff. And, you know, I see where people are like, you know, well, the phone didn't ring. And it's like, it's a lot more complicated, and then on another level, it's a lot more simple than that.
56:46 Speaker 01 You got it? You don't got it.
56:49 Speaker 01 You know?
56:50 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
56:51 Speaker 01 And if you, like, I feel like I was born with it. It was a language I understood immediately. It didn't take me long to teach myself how to do any instrument.
57:02 Billy Corgan? Sure.
57:02 Speaker 01 And pick it up very quickly.
57:03 Billy Corgan? Yeah, I mean, you can.
57:04 Speaker 01 I had to go backwards and take theory to put it the other way. I really had muscle memory and ear.
57:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
57:14 Speaker 01 And then notation, to go back and learn that was, I learned backwards, basically.
57:19 Billy Corgan? Right.
57:20 Speaker 01 But going out and playing live, you know, and getting paid for it, it's like going to the gym.
57:29 Speaker 01 Lovely.
57:30 Billy Corgan? Okay, last thing. When you reached that point in the band where you're like, I gotta get the hell out of here. I have that about once a week, so I'm with you, you know what I mean? Where you're looking, you go.
57:42 Speaker 01 Like, shut up already. I've had it with you.
57:46 Billy Corgan? Right.
57:48 Speaker 01 No.
57:49 Billy Corgan? It's not fair to go back in time, but what happens in critical moments in our life, in our associations with our bandmates, you know, because like, and you know this feeling. No matter what we do in life, I'll always be a pumpkin and you'll always be in that band.
58:07 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
58:08 Billy Corgan? It's weird because in the fans' mind, you're in the band even if you're not in the band.
58:12 Speaker 01 It pisses you off somehow because it's hard to get around the image.
58:15 Billy Corgan? Sure, but it's also on some level, it's a testament to what you've done, right?
58:20 Speaker 01 Okay, but I think both of us, at least me and my solo career and you and your whole life,
58:29 Speaker 01 covered so many genres and covered them well.
58:32 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
58:33 Speaker 01 That you'd be able to go and find a genre in your maturity.
58:38 Billy Corgan? Sure.
58:39 Speaker 01 As an artist where an amalgamation of a couple of those categories or just one or two.
58:45 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
58:46 Speaker 01 Would be at your access to paint sound.
58:52 Billy Corgan? Sure.
58:53 Speaker 01 I feel that way about myself.
58:55 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
58:55 Speaker 01 I feel like I'm like.
58:57 Billy Corgan? Well, you're just as capable as ever. You haven't lost a step.
59:01 Speaker 01 No, I still take lessons and I was like a whole other thing, like the guys that stayed in the band, God bless them.
59:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
59:07 Speaker 01 And they were in that groove. I was in no groove. I was in, I was teaching myself and getting into jazz more.
59:15 Billy Corgan? Sure.
59:17 Speaker 01 Different areas of music and it was very enriching.
59:19 Billy Corgan? But the last thing I'm after. Is, you know, I'm not saying as dramatically as the last day before you step through a door and you're like, okay, I'm done. But I'm saying is, there are moments in those situations, and I've certainly experienced them, where you don't feel you're getting the support you need. You feel like you're saying, does anybody here see what I'm going through? Can you, can you, I'm your brother.
59:41 Speaker 01 All the time.
59:42 Billy Corgan? Can you relate to where I'm at?
59:44 Speaker 01 Yes.
59:44 Billy Corgan? And it becomes about either dollars and cents, or ticket sales, or cancellations, and you're like, hello, my name's Richie and I just, you know, I want to be loved. You know what I'm saying?
59:54 Speaker 01 Yes, yes.
59:55 Billy Corgan? Okay.
59:55 Speaker 01 I feel that way. And, and what I've gained to experience out of many, many years in this business, as you know, is that people experience fame and fortune at different speeds and do different things with their lives. So the element of bands.
1:00:15 Speaker 01 Core changes, man.
1:00:17 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:00:17 Speaker 01 And it's like, you know.
1:00:18 Billy Corgan? It magnifies and then at some point it can.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:21 Billy Corgan? Right?
1:00:22 Speaker 01 It does. You, you know, the, um, the straight on focus of when you're young and you don't have any other things to bother you or annoyances.
1:00:34 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:00:34 Speaker 01 Or things to tend to.
1:00:36 Billy Corgan? Ferraris.
1:00:36 Speaker 01 Or not even, just the responsibilities.
1:00:38 Billy Corgan? That was a joke, but.
1:00:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I, I do have Ferrari, but. What are you gonna do?
1:00:43 Billy Corgan? Sorry.
1:00:43 Speaker 01 Sorry about that. It's 20 years old. You wanna buy it? It's for sale.
1:00:48 Billy Corgan? Richie's car.
1:00:49 Speaker 01 No, no, I'm okay. But that's true. I think that we, as artists at our age, and, and being very sincere at every.
1:00:59 Billy Corgan? Right.
1:00:59 Speaker 01 Every second. It's not even, the, the music is the way I spend it. But people should have gratitude for every second and really understand the weight of it.
1:01:10 Billy Corgan? If you'd gotten some of the support you needed then, would it have turned out different? Or you had to go at that moment because it was just, that was the time?
1:01:20 Speaker 01 The turning point was obviously my daughter. I mean, daughter looks at you and goes daddy, I need you.
1:01:26 Billy Corgan? That's it.
1:01:26 Speaker 01 And I go, you know what? I need you too. In other words, it's like.
1:01:32 Billy Corgan? Did you try to explain that to the guys?
1:01:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, and plus they should have saw it. And so, and then, you know what? We're all friends. Everything is, there's not like, there might be some animosity towards me in some directions, but I fought for that band to put that band together. And then I really wanted us to be a band and help the guys get involved with even the financial and this end of it, which is boring stuff to be talking about.
1:01:59 Billy Corgan? But it does matter behind the scenes.
1:02:02 Speaker 01 It matters because there is a glue and a caring.
1:02:07 Billy Corgan? Yeah, you're ultimately a family, whether you want to be or not.
1:02:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:11 Billy Corgan? And it includes the crew and.
1:02:13 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:02:14 Billy Corgan? The guy selling T-shirts, he becomes part of your.
1:02:16 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:02:17 Billy Corgan? Outer world.
1:02:18 Speaker 01 Yes. It's, it's, I chose to actually be.
1:02:23 Billy Corgan? Okay, last question. Last question. And I'm not looking for dirt, I'm looking for an opinion because.
1:02:29 Speaker 01 You're looking for dirt.
1:02:30 Billy Corgan? No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm really not.
1:02:32 Speaker 01 He's looking for dirt.
1:02:33 Billy Corgan? I'm not that interested. No, because I think.
1:02:35 Speaker 01 You know what? I loved this interview, by the way.
1:02:37 Billy Corgan? Thank you.
1:02:37 Speaker 01 And I want to thank you for asking me because you're a great interviewer.
1:02:40 Billy Corgan? Now I got to ask the dirt question.
1:02:41 Speaker 01 You could jerk me off if you want, I don't care.
1:02:44 Billy Corgan? You're a very handsome man.
1:02:48 Speaker 01 Stop already, I'll put my intelligent glasses on.
1:02:50 Billy Corgan? If, if, if there's a, in my mind, there's like a, like a dial sometimes with the decisions we make, right? So if, if, if a band is 70% music and 30% business or 60, 40, you know what I mean? At some point, did that dial get to become too much about business and not enough about music? Does that make sense?
1:03:13 Speaker 01 Yes, but not to me, it wasn't that.
1:03:15 Billy Corgan? No, but I'm saying with the people you were in business with, did you feel that they got too much about business and less about music? Because you was a musician person.
1:03:25 Speaker 01 I didn't feel that way.
1:03:26 Billy Corgan? Okay, so you were good with that?
1:03:27 Speaker 01 I was, I was good with that. I was more, it was, it was getting stale. It was 30, almost 32 years.
1:03:35 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:03:35 Speaker 01 And there was some.
1:03:38 Speaker 01 Feelings that needed to be communicated.
1:03:40 Billy Corgan? Sure.
1:03:40 Speaker 01 That were not.
1:03:42 Billy Corgan? But that's not atypical, you know.
1:03:44 Speaker 01 It's not.
1:03:45 Billy Corgan? Especially with, especially with guys.
1:03:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, from New Jersey, give me a burger. So, you know.
1:03:50 Billy Corgan? You're not known as the feelings thing.
1:03:51 Speaker 01 I didn't want to bring my problems to work.
1:03:53 Billy Corgan? Sure.
1:03:54 Speaker 01 They were everywhere anyway.
1:03:55 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:03:55 Speaker 01 You know, I didn't even have a public assistant. I was just everywhere, no matter what I did. It was just one of those things.
1:04:02 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:04:02 Speaker 01 And.
1:04:03 Billy Corgan? You were clickbait before clickbait.
1:04:07 Speaker 01 I was. And that sexy? But I, I have a girl now. I have a woman now that I've had now over two years and we have a wonderful relationship and to fall in love at sixty-three with the wisdom.
1:04:23 Billy Corgan? Okay.
1:04:23 Speaker 01 And she's also smart. And she's also healthy and, and beautiful and sixty.
1:04:33 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:04:33 Speaker 01 And it's a different way. It, it invigorates you very much. It's a different way to fall in love.
1:04:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:04:40 Speaker 01 It's like, it's like, yo, people that wish they say, um, wow, I wish I knew that damn one. I was damn in high school back then.
1:04:49 Billy Corgan? What's the, what's the line from the Rod Stewart?
1:04:51 Speaker 01 I do know that.
1:04:51 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Yeah. I wish I knew now what I knew. Ronnie Lane, I think, wrote that line.
1:04:56 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:04:57 Billy Corgan? Beautiful.
1:04:57 Speaker 01 I wish, yeah. But so that kind of happened to me and it was crazy because I was at my singing teacher's house. And I was getting ready to do a show, which was a ridiculous show, but a lot of fun to do called The Masked Singer.
1:05:10 Billy Corgan? Okay.
1:05:10 Speaker 01 In England.
1:05:11 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:05:11 Speaker 01 Hard. The costume, very wild. It's wild.
1:05:16 Billy Corgan? You did that? I didn't see that.
1:05:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I almost, you can't really win. It's like, who's fooling who?
1:05:22 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
1:05:22 Speaker 01 But I got a chance to just go out and sing.
1:05:25 Billy Corgan? Okay.
1:05:26 Speaker 01 Right? And whenever I took that damn mask off, people were going to be surprised.
1:05:29 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:05:30 Speaker 01 You know, so I was doing it for a little bit of an ulterior motive.
1:05:34 Billy Corgan? Sure.
1:05:34 Speaker 01 But. There were three networks that wanted me in England to be a judge on this, that kind of thing. And I go, that's the hardest one, Noah, but I think it'll have the most value in the end. You know, and I didn't pick the songs. And they don't want, it's a really wild operation.
1:05:55 Billy Corgan? What they have you sing?
1:05:57 Speaker 01 I sang, I opened a show as the first artist, and it's the biggest show on TV there in England, with Elvis, "Viva Las Vegas."
1:06:08 Billy Corgan? That's an easy song to sing.
1:06:11 Speaker 01 I gotta admit, I don't like anything.
1:06:14 Billy Corgan? You killed.
1:06:15 Speaker 01 I killed it. Then I did "Hallelujah" after that.
1:06:20 Billy Corgan? Okay.
1:06:20 Speaker 01 And I nailed it.
1:06:24 Speaker 01 And that was good. And then they wanted me to do something by a woman. And I said, "Name it, whatever you'd like." So I had "Back in Black" and "Sweet Dreams" by Annie.
1:06:39 Billy Corgan? You're a rhythmic singer.
1:06:40 Speaker 01 She's a mezzo, and that's an A, that's perfect for me. I have to change the key for Amy. And as a goof, I did a version of "If I Could Turn Back Time."
1:06:50 Billy Corgan? Oh my God. I think that's where we end, right there. I can't talk.
1:06:54 Speaker 01 No, no.
1:06:56 Billy Corgan? Thank you. God bless you.
1:06:56 Speaker 01 Thank you. God bless you, Billy. It was a lot of fun.
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