Pod Insights The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan Rudy Sarzo, Pt 2 | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan About this episode In this emotional continuation, Rudy Sarzo opens up to BillyCorgan about the heartbreaking moment he lost his bandmate and friend Randy Rhoads in a tragic plane crash, and why Ozzy had to keep moving to survive. They revisit the origins of Metal Health, Quiet Riot’s groundbreaking album that became the first debut heavy metal record to hit #1, tracing its roots to Rhoads’ influence, Slade covers, and LA’s Sunset Strip and how success, MTV pressure, and bad deals fractured Quiet Riot. Sarzo also reflects on the Ozzy/Sabbath farewell that brought everything full circle.
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Transcript 11,095 words · 3 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:09 Speaker 01 So I shut the curtains and go back to sleep. And I wake up to boom! And I go, guys, I'm startled, you know? The bus was shaking. And I open my curtain. And now, at that moment, I was not ready to accept the possibility of the reality.
1:31 Billy Corgan? Sure, I. You just lost your buddy, somebody you loved and was close to. How did you process that? Because that's not...
1:41 Speaker 01 I became a robot on stage.
1:44 Billy Corgan? To come from where you've come from, to actually reach the world stage and play with such great musicians and be involved with such great music. It's such a miracle.
1:54 Speaker 01 Metal Health took about 10 years to write.
1:59 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
2:00 Speaker 01 This is the first album. You've got all these songs that you've been working on for the last 10 years, you know? And the next record took like, what? You've got six weeks to make this record? And MTV just ate it up. So it was them against us.
2:15 Billy Corgan? So there was the competition. Did you guys lose?
2:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:21 Billy Corgan? But that's music, you see? That's the beauty.
2:28 Billy Corgan? Not everyone gets a part two.
2:30 Speaker 01 Wow.
2:32 Billy Corgan? I think you and Paul Stanley, you, Paul Stanley and Daryl Hall.
2:37 Speaker 01 You know, I got so many wonderful people to talk about because it's not about me. I've just.
2:42 Billy Corgan? No, it is about you.
2:43 Speaker 01 I'm like Forrest Gump. I just happened to be there and I got a lot of great people, history, I mean, stories to tell about.
2:50 Billy Corgan? Rudy from Cuba. We have a lot to talk about. Okay.
2:56 Billy Corgan? Hate to start on a sad note, but after Randy passes, Ozzy obviously has to stop for a time. How long was that stop?
3:05 Speaker 01 No more than 10 days.
3:07 Billy Corgan? Wow.
3:08 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
3:09 Billy Corgan? Was there internal discussion like, like, cause I was in a similar situation once, also tragic, not making light of it, but what's the internal deliberation? Do we keep going? Do you know, how do we?
3:24 Speaker 01 It was a combination of a few factors. Right before Randy passed away, there was
3:33 Speaker 01 a conflict between Randy and Ozzy because Ozzy, there was a commitment that was made for, to do the Speak of the Devil record, which is the Ozzy Black Sabbath re-recording.
3:48 Billy Corgan? And that was the record to get out of the Don Arden situation.
3:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, I.
3:53 Billy Corgan? I feel like Sharon just talked about that, so.
3:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, if that's what she said, but I, I never asked, why are we doing this? It's not my place to do that. All I knew is that we were told, okay, the next thing we're gonna do and it's gonna be here at this time and, and Randy spoke up and says, listen, I've already recorded two Ozzy records and I feel that for me, this is gonna be a step backwards. He didn't wanna do that and this is where his integrity came in and. It did not sit very well with Randy, I mean with Ozzy, because now Ozzy doesn't have his guitar player, bandmate to make the record with.
4:40 Billy Corgan? So that was kind of in the air?
4:41 Speaker 01 That was in the air. Uh, before, of course, before Randy passed away, before the crash, they had come to an agreement.
4:50 Billy Corgan? Okay.
4:50 Speaker 01 Randy was gonna do the record, a couple more tours and maybe another record. This is all up in the air. And but initially, what he wanted to do was go back to school and get his degree. I have never played since with another musician who was a rock star
5:11 Speaker 01 that decided to go back to school.
5:14 Billy Corgan? Did you guys talk about that personally?
5:18 Speaker 01 I would just listen.
5:19 Billy Corgan? Right.
5:20 Speaker 01 Because this was his wish to do this. And it was like, I understood, you know, he was in a place so different than mine. I did not, I would, I was, I did not take part of Blizzard of Oz and Direfuge Magnet. To me, playing Bud Daisley basslines or playing, uh, uh, Geezer Butler basslines, you know, and playing somebody else's bassline. It had nothing to do with any musical integrity personally.
5:47 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
5:48 Speaker 01 But for Randy, it did.
5:49 Billy Corgan? It's a job, but it's a great, and it's a great job, but it's a job.
5:51 Speaker 01 It's a job. But for Randy, it was a whole different thing, you know? And so
6:00 Speaker 01 within a few days of them coming to an agreement, and, and you know Sharon, we, we both know Sharon, at some point, if, if Randy would have not passed, would have not died on the crash, she would have come up with it, with a solution.
6:17 Billy Corgan? Okay.
6:18 Speaker 01 To keep Randy in the band.
6:19 Billy Corgan? Of course.
6:20 Speaker 01 Randy go to school.
6:21 Billy Corgan? Why wouldn't, why wouldn't, why wouldn't you? Because?
6:23 Speaker 01 Something would have, would have happened. But at that moment, that's what was going on. There was, there was a certain finality to Randy's contribution to Ozzy at that point.
6:33 Billy Corgan? Sure.
6:35 Speaker 01 And I remember the last night, right after we played Knoxville, it was a long drive from Knoxville to the Orlando area, a place called Kissimmee.
6:50 Billy Corgan? Yeah, that would have been about a 12, 14 hour drive, right?
6:53 Speaker 01 Yeah. You know, and in those days, it was, it was, it was the Wild West as far as tour bus travel. Drivers would drive for 12 hours and for them to be able to drive 12 hours, they had to get some little help, you know?
7:10 Speaker 01 And so anyways, uh, I'm, I'm sitting in the lounge, front lounge of the tour bus and there's Tommy and Randy and Ozzy and and we're watching, uh, I believe it was Tora, Tora, Tora. One of those Japanese war movies where there's a lot of
7:32 Billy Corgan? Yes, I think it's about the, the, the suicide.
7:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, the suicide, yeah.
7:36 Billy Corgan? Drive of fighters.
7:38 Speaker 01 That was on the screen and I'm like, okay, I just finished the show, uh, doing the show and I, I, I don't want to watch this. So I'll go, I go in my bunk
7:48 Speaker 01 and wake up the next morning, Randy is saying, Rudy, Roots, Roots. And I open up the curtain and he's standing in the doorway, looking at me and he says, hey, come up, I'm gonna go on a plane up with, uh, with, uh, you know, the, uh, the bus driver on racial. And
8:11 Speaker 01 and I said, no, no, I, I, I knew that we were in Florida. I grew up in Florida. The last thing I wanted to do was go, go up on a Cessna, flying around where I grew up. And he is like, no.
8:23 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
8:24 Speaker 01 I told him, I, I'm just gonna wait until we get to the hotel and I'm gonna get out of my bunk and lay by the pool. Okay. That was a day off. The next day we were playing the, uh, Tangerine Bowl with Foreigner. And so I, I shut the curtains.
8:41 Speaker 01 And go back to sleep and I wake up to boom. And I go, guys, I'm startled, you know, the, the bus was shaking. And I open my curtain and Sharon and Ozzy come out of the back lounge and we're all, you know, that area where the bunks are, it's the doors closed to the lounge and then I opened. And
9:09 Speaker 01 there's glass everywhere and the the passenger side window is blown. And I see our tour manager on his knees pulling his hair yelling, they're gone.
9:26 Speaker 01 I have no idea what is he yelling about.
9:30 Speaker 01 And so we're trying to get out of the bus and Sharon chubs the bus drivers. Andy Acock, Andrew.
9:42 Speaker 01 His wife off to one side so she, we could get out to see what's going on because she was frozen, standing there, holding, you know, the frame of the door.
9:52 Speaker 01 And I get out of the bus and I look over to my, my right. And there's a tree right behind the bus and there's a, there's a garage, attached garage to a house on fire.
10:08 Speaker 01 Now, at that moment, I was not ready to accept the possibility of the reality that was going on. So I'm, you know, like, you know, you know, I'm looking around what's going on. And then little by little, information comes up that that was the plane that crashed. Suddenly,
10:31 Speaker 01 I went deaf and all I heard was a low hum, like hmm, a frequency. It was definitely, I could see people yelling, crying out. But I couldn't hear anything.
10:47 Speaker 01 And then it just appeared again and I could hear the crackling of the fire, everything and all the chaos. It took about an hour and a half for the fire department to arrive. Because this is 1982, middle of nowhere in, in central Florida. There's no cell phones to be calling, you know, the cops or, or the fire department. So somebody that was on, on a horse, riding a horse, went, saw what happened. There's a house on fire. They ran, they rode back to their home and they're the ones who called the fire department. And so we were in this hell,
11:33 Speaker 01 trying to figure out what's going on, what, what, what can we do? And just in disbelief that we had lost Randy and Rachel, who were also on the plane.
11:51 Billy Corgan? So,
11:54 Billy Corgan? as you said, there's this 10 days where everybody's trying to figure out you guys are going to go back on tour.
11:59 Speaker 01 Yes, and we knew, we knew and we briefly spoke about it.
12:06 Speaker 01 Everything was very solemn decisions made by Sharon. And they were basically, let's keep Ozzy busy.
12:21 Speaker 01 Let's keep him occupied.
12:24 Speaker 01 Because at one of the triggers, it things start getting a little bit
12:34 Speaker 01 of kilt for Ozzy. Right around when Randy decided that he really did not want to partake on the Speak of the Devil recording. He would stay up for a few nights drinking. It was, it was tough for him. That it was a decision that he had no control on.
12:54 Speaker 01 You know? And I mean, as far as making that record and then Randy not wanting to, to be a part of that. Uh, so already Ozzy was.
13:05 Speaker 01 You know, very delicate at that point. And we knew that if Ozzy went home, he would drink himself to death.
13:16 Billy Corgan? Hmm. So on a, I'm, I'm paraphrasing what you're telling me, but tell me if this I'm understanding it's,
13:25 Billy Corgan? it's better to keep him moving forward.
13:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:28 Billy Corgan? And did you agree with that from a personal point of view?
13:31 Speaker 01 For being there?
13:32 Billy Corgan? Okay.
13:32 Speaker 01 Absolutely. That was the only, the only decision to make.
13:35 Billy Corgan? Okay. But set that aside. You just lost your buddy, somebody you loved and was close to. How did you process that? Cause that's not.
13:45 Speaker 01 I became a robot on stage. Uh, we did a show, filmed a show that Randy was supposed to be a part of at Irvine, nineteen eighty-two. That was the last continental US Diary of a Madman show. And when I saw myself in the video performing, I knew that I was being a robot, but I, but to actually witness it, to see myself like that.
14:17 Speaker 01 I said, you know what? I did not get into this to become
14:24 Speaker 01 inhuman. I wa- I was, I wasn't playing notes anymore. I was trying to survive.
14:30 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
14:31 Speaker 01 A moment, a show, an hour and a half of survival. I would not look at the audience. I would not look at Ozzy. All I did was, when we played the garden, Madison Square Garden, I just put my head down and I cried right through the whole show. Cause if, when I first looked out, there was banners.
14:52 Speaker 01 God bless Randy. It was all about Randy. It was a wake.
14:56 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
14:58 Speaker 01 And I just lost it completely.
15:02 Billy Corgan? Yeah. See if this tracks with you because I've had my own versions of these things where playing is the hardest thing to do because of loss. I played, uh, uh,
15:17 Billy Corgan? the night after I found out my mother died. And it was one of those things where the funeral was gonna be in a few days. So it was like, cancel the show or just go ahead and play the show. You know what I mean? And, and the reason I feel I understand, but I'm, I'm seeing if this tracks with your thing is, music is such a beautiful, joyous celebration. That when it isn't that, it's almost like the exact opposite. It's so painful. Because how do you do something that you love so much and it means so much to you? But when your heart is broken, it's like, you don't know how to do those two things. Does that, does that make sense?
15:57 Speaker 01 It took me decades to figure it out. I mean, nowadays I go on tour with Quiet Riot. And for the first time, I, I have a higher purpose than just being like, hey, Rudy's up there rocking. You know, no. It's, I'm there to celebrate the memory of those who have passed. Randy, Frankie Benelli, Kevin Dubrow, and the legacy of the band. That's my purpose for doing that.
16:27 Speaker 01 You know, but, but it took me decades because when I left Ozzy, it was because I had no idea of that responsibility that we, the bandmates who are left behind, we have to those who have passed on.
16:43 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
16:43 Speaker 01 To keep their music alive.
16:45 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
16:45 Speaker 01 Our music, you know? I didn't know then, all, all that happened to me is I went into a.
16:53 Billy Corgan? Shock.
16:54 Speaker 01 Shock. I, you know, it was trauma. It took me, again, I don't want to bring out the book, but it took me writing the book to actually put it onto paper to, to fully get closure of the trauma that I had. And it's a scar, it leaves a scar.
17:14 Billy Corgan? Of course.
17:14 Speaker 01 It's healed, the scar is healed, but the scar is still there.
17:18 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Yeah. So.
17:24 Billy Corgan? Quiet Riot's doing this song, Thunderbird. I'd heard this song before, but I didn't know it was connected to Randy until I listened to it again today. It's a beautiful track.
17:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:34 Billy Corgan? I mean, you can tell that, that everybody involved, their hearts there.
17:39 Speaker 01 It's how, how I got to, how I got to go back to what became known as Quiet Riot, because originally that was a continuation of Dubrow. When I left Dubrow to join Ozzy, all the members came in. You know, it's just Kevin named the band Dubrow, so it could be a revolving door.
17:59 Billy Corgan? So he wasn't, yeah, okay.
18:00 Speaker 01 Or he will be the only constant.
18:01 Billy Corgan? Okay.
18:02 Speaker 01 You know, because forty something years ago, I mean, in music, it's never easy to succeed in music. So you, you know, back then, just like we have right now, we have musicians who have multiple projects.
18:16 Billy Corgan? Sure.
18:16 Speaker 01 Until one of them takes off, you know?
18:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah, those were different times too, though, as far as what people, you had to kind of pick one lane.
18:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. You know, so, so it was named Dubrow. And I get a phone call from Kevin, I was getting ready to go and do Speak of the Devil at the Ritz in New York. And he says, hey, there's a possible record deal and how would you like to come down and, and record on Thunderbird? Which I, most of the songs that wound up on the Metal Health record were Dubrow songs that I used to play with Kevin when I was playing in Dubrow. So when I left Ozzy, I actually went back to Dubrow, which was the band that I was in. But it got renamed Quiet Riot because I didn't want it to join, you know, leave one of the biggest bands in the world to be in somebody else's band.
19:05 Billy Corgan? I see.
19:06 Speaker 01 You know, it didn't make any sense, you know? So I said, okay, we, we, we have to get a band name. And Kevin said, well, you and I, we're used to being Quiet Riot, so might as well call it Quiet Riot.
19:18 Billy Corgan? And how does Frankie Bonali come?
19:20 Speaker 01 He was in Dubrow at the time.
19:22 Billy Corgan? Okay.
19:22 Speaker 01 He was, he was in Dubrow before I came back to record Metal Health, and so was Carlos Cabasso.
19:27 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
19:28 Speaker 01 But Frankie had many other gigs going on at the time.
19:32 Billy Corgan? If we can talk about Frankie real quick, because I was listening to some of Frankie's stuff today, knowing I was going to talk to you. And it's interesting, because.
19:44 Billy Corgan? I see Frankie as a crop of those drummers from that time.
19:47 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
19:47 Billy Corgan? But now that I think about it and do the like, he ended, he's actually way more influential than I thought. He was like, he kind of set the template for the way a lot of those people played like. He was that guy before everybody else. Does that make sense?
20:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, um, from playing with him and knowing him personally, I, I know he had, well, he had the biggest record collection. He used to work at a record store in Fort Lauderdale.
20:14 Billy Corgan? Hmm.
20:14 Speaker 01 So he always, when I started playing with him, he's the one who brought me into that world. The, he got me closer to getting out of the Miami Cuban rock scene, which wasn't even rock. It was more Cuban.
20:29 Billy Corgan? Right.
20:29 Speaker 01 Than rock. And I wanted to be where everybody sang with an accent. We were in the quinceañeras, uh, circuit.
20:39 Billy Corgan? Sure.
20:40 Speaker 01 And one day, Willie shows up with his, with a band playing with a, with a Cuban band.
20:46 Billy Corgan? Willie, the, the bassist from?
20:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's right. David Letterman. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's from Miami. So it's Jacko. Yeah, Jacko and all that. But, uh, there's Willie and I'm going, this guy's like from Mars. He sounds just like the radio.
21:00 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
21:01 Speaker 01 He doesn't have an accent where he sings and he's playing amazing. Well, of course, his dad was the, uh, the, the dean of the music department of the University of Miami. So he had a proper music education. You know, it was a revelation, you know, as to what needs, what you need to have.
21:18 Billy Corgan? Oh, I see.
21:19 Speaker 01 You know, to, to make it, you know? So I made the transition from playing in Dade County, going to Broward County, which is Fort Lauderdale. You know, more of the American, you know, side of Florida. And Frankie is the one that turned me on to all the European, British bands. And he was always on.
21:39 Speaker 01 Ahead of anybody that I knew as far as what's coming. You know, music and he would always give me the records to listen to it. And he's the one who taught me how to be part of the rhythm section. That relationship between the drums and the bass.
21:54 Billy Corgan? I saw an interview that you gave and if you don't mind kind of picking up the point. You were talking about how heavy metal bass basically is, you know, Little Richard. You know, this idea of
22:08 Billy Corgan? or Jerry Lee Lewis.
22:09 Speaker 01 And Paul McCartney.
22:09 Billy Corgan? And I never, and I never put those pieces together. And when I heard you say it, I was like, wow, that's so. Because, you know, to the average sort of musician, whatever that means. Heavy metal bass is not particularly sophisticated, you know. The eighties style, let me finish and you tell me if I'm wrong. No, because you, because you have so much to do with this style. The Bob Daisley era bass, that sort of more walking around, which guys who grew up on McCartney, U2. Heavy metal bass ended up being kind of like
22:42 Billy Corgan? it's like the simplification of that, but it's not a lack of musical sophistication. It's, it's finding more musical drive.
22:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:49 Billy Corgan? From a rhythm point of view.
22:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:51 Billy Corgan? Even think of Van Halen bass, it's like bum, bum, bum, right?
22:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:55 Billy Corgan? Does that track with you, what I'm saying?
22:57 Speaker 01 Okay.
23:00 Speaker 01 I see from my own experience, being a musician, you go, they put you through a grinder or a filter.
23:08 Speaker 01 It go like this, right? It's like, okay, I would say 80% of what you can, you can do musically.
23:15 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
23:16 Speaker 01 You, nobody hears, hears it. It could be because of the mix. I recently did a recording.
23:25 Speaker 01 That. Okay, somebody asked me to, you know, they, they put together Tommy Aldrich and Brad Gillis and myself and say, we want you to do, uh, The Real Me by The Who.
23:38 Billy Corgan? Okay.
23:40 Speaker 01 You know, John in Whistle is like, you know, what can I say? You know?
23:45 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
23:48 Speaker 01 Any bass player of my generation, you know, he is like one of the most influential, if not the most influential and the utmost respect that I have for him. So I say that, you know, I knew John, we used to hang out. And it was like, wow, this is an opportunity to like, thank you, John.
24:06 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
24:06 Speaker 01 You know, so I studied the bassline. And I said, there's only one way to play this song. It's like the
24:15 Billy Corgan? Exactly the way he would have done it, yeah.
24:16 Speaker 01 Right? Okay, I studied his tone, you know, I got some
24:20 Billy Corgan? Very aggressive, yeah.
24:21 Speaker 01 You know, that tone, okay. Now, it's a tone that was in the seventies. If you put that tone in an occurrence recording, it's gonna get buried.
24:33 Billy Corgan? I see.
24:34 Speaker 01 Because all the other tones are modern.
24:36 Billy Corgan? And very bright.
24:37 Speaker 01 Very bright.
24:38 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
24:38 Speaker 01 Right? So that's what happened to my, it's all my bass.
24:45 Billy Corgan? You're in there somewhere.
24:46 Speaker 01 I'm in there, I'm in there, but you know, it's, that's what happened, you know. You know, it's like in a situation where they send you tracks and you record something, you're not in the same room working with one engineer who's gonna say, well, we're gonna work your tone a little bit and
25:00 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
25:00 Speaker 01 Because so it fits. I had no idea what the guitar was gonna sound like or any of the other instruments was gonna sound like. All I knew is that I wanna capture the essence of John and Whistle. I did, but nobody's gonna hear it.
25:13 Billy Corgan? So, let's talk about, you know, the evidence is there, the Quiet Riot Metal Health album first.
25:21 Speaker 01 Okay.
25:22 Billy Corgan? But can I ask questions?
25:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course, I'm sorry.
25:24 Billy Corgan? Or you wanna take over?
25:25 Speaker 01 No, no, no, no, no. I love your questions, I do.
25:29 Billy Corgan? You should interview me. We'll flip the, okay, so
25:36 Billy Corgan? it's a different way to come at it because, you know, when things are over explored, you know, they tend to fall into kind of like, there's a story and the story is interesting, but it's maybe not the whole story.
25:49 Billy Corgan? Metal Health album, first real heavy metal album ever go number one. You know, true, right? That's, is that fair?
25:57 Speaker 01 It was the first debut. There's been, there have been other metal records that went to number one.
26:03 Billy Corgan? Okay, first debut.
26:04 Speaker 01 Debut, yeah.
26:05 Billy Corgan? But I mean, it's a seminal moment.
26:07 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
26:08 Billy Corgan? Okay, I mean, there's before that album and there's after that album. Right? So.
26:15 Billy Corgan? A couple of things. One is, I love that record when it came out. I got it and I had it.
26:21 Speaker 01 Thank you.
26:22 Billy Corgan? And I, and I, and I, and I, I, not only did I get it, I got it. Like, I got it musically.
26:27 Speaker 01 Interesting.
26:28 Billy Corgan? You know, so that record came out, what, eighty three? Does that sound right?
26:33 Speaker 01 Well, it got released in eighty three.
26:34 Billy Corgan? Okay.
26:35 Speaker 01 It was recorded in eighty two.
26:36 Billy Corgan? So I'm sixteen years old. So I'm the perfect age, you know what I mean, to really, am I sixteen? I can't even do math anywhere. Anyway, doesn't matter. So, um, but even back then, there was a bit of a vibe amongst the metal community that it wasn't heavy enough or something enough. Kevin obviously rubbed people the wrong way. MTV, Kevin rubbed people the wrong way. There was that vibe. And then over time, the record really hasn't gotten the respect it deserves. Do you feel, is that, is that a fair statement? Do you feel that's fair?
27:16 Speaker 01 That is interesting. I mean, to me, their respect it deserves is based on people going out and buying it and listening to the record.
27:28 Speaker 01 Still, in Sound Exchange, which is, which is a reflection of Airplay, yeah, it does really well.
27:37 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
27:37 Speaker 01 So, and we still sell records, you know, because we still get royalties.
27:41 Billy Corgan? I'm not trying to say anything negative, it's just a...
27:43 Speaker 01 No, no, I understand. So, the respect, see, I think they did not get the respect because there was not a follow through.
27:52 Billy Corgan? Okay.
27:53 Speaker 01 To it.
27:54 Billy Corgan? Pause that for one thought. Pause that for one second. Okay.
27:58 Billy Corgan? So here's what I'm after. Because I was there as a fan and I got it, like, I mean, I got the record. And some of the things you've even told me today, which I didn't know, like you were talking about Frankie's record collection. You're talking about you loving Bowie and Herbie Flowers and your influences, even your, even your Cuban music influences. There's a lot more in that record than meets the eye. That record in many ways is a, is a, is an eighties clarification of something that the seventies didn't solve, which was how to make that music pop.
28:31 Speaker 01 Interesting.
28:33 Billy Corgan? The glam influence in particular on that record, and obviously with Slade, Come On Feel The Noise, that's the sort of secret sauce of the record. It's like, um, for people who don't like hard rock or heavy metal, that don't really love it, who don't really understand the difference between Deep Purple and Rainbow, or even the Grand Bonnet version of Rainbow, you know what I mean? They don't really understand it. They just kind of paint it with a broad brush. I like to say I'm a music snob, and what I think that people don't understand about the Metal Health record is it's a lot, it's actually a more sophisticated record. It's so, it's so clear in its presentation that it comes off simpler than it is.
29:16 Billy Corgan? But putting those influences together in that way, Quiet Riot was the first band that ever figured that out. And you were there.
29:24 Speaker 01 I, I love that perception.
29:26 Billy Corgan? Okay, cool.
29:27 Speaker 01 I love that perception.
29:28 Billy Corgan? That's what I was after.
29:29 Speaker 01 Uh, because it just opens up all of these perceptions. See, now I can move like this because you open up that lane for me to move around.
29:42 Billy Corgan? That's what I, that's what I'm asking you to do. Take me, take me back into that.
29:46 Speaker 01 I'll take you back into that. Oh, boy. How much time do we have? Okay, okay. Many things were going on at that time. Uh, there was a turnover. There was the new British invasion of the new wave of metal happening.
30:00 Billy Corgan? Iron Maiden, Def Leppard.
30:02 Speaker 01 Exactly.
30:02 Billy Corgan? UFO.
30:03 Speaker 01 You, you, you named it. And, and these are bands that we either tour with, with Ozzy, like UFO and Def Leppard, Motorhead, Saxon. So I was, I could see them every night, what's going on? Meanwhile, here's Kevin Dubrow in L.A., in the band Dubrow, writing songs to impress Randy so he could leave Ozzy to come back and play with him.
30:26 Billy Corgan? I didn't know that.
30:27 Speaker 01 That is the product of that.
30:30 Billy Corgan? So Randy has an influence?
30:32 Speaker 01 Oh, major. I'll tell you how big a, you know.
30:34 Billy Corgan? That's so beautiful.
30:35 Speaker 01 Bang your head. Okay, so we're, we're touring with Ozzy in England. A girl is opening up, and this is when Phil Collin was still in the band, and.
30:47 Speaker 01 And we are watching the kids banging their heads on stage. So we were going back to LA to start Diary of a Man and pre-production. And first thing we always would do, Randy and I would get in the car, pick us up, go to Kevin's place, pick him up, go to the Rainbow and give him an update. Because there's no internet.
31:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:08 Speaker 01 Nobody knows what's going on.
31:09 Billy Corgan? Here's what happened. Here's the tour story.
31:11 Speaker 01 This is what's going on out there, right? And and we tell them about the kids banging their heads. That's where Metal Hell, the song, came from.
31:22 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:22 Speaker 01 Because originally it was a snow song. Now that's Carlos Cavasso's band before he joined the bro. And it was called No More Booze.
31:31 Billy Corgan? No more booze.
31:33 Speaker 01 There you go. You got it.
31:36 Speaker 01 So Kevin rewrote the song.
31:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
31:39 Speaker 01 And it became Metal Hell. So all along,
31:44 Speaker 01 Kevin was writing music and moving forward to impress Randy. So Randy, his idea was to come back to play with.
31:55 Billy Corgan? And their relationship was still good.
31:57 Speaker 01 Oh, it was always.
31:58 Billy Corgan? Brothers, yeah.
31:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was always brothers, you know. Once Randy died,
32:05 Speaker 01 Kevin just lost that. He had nobody to play for. Nobody to impress, nobody to like.
32:13 Billy Corgan? I see.
32:14 Speaker 01 You know, because Randy had been there from the very beginning.
32:17 Billy Corgan? Right.
32:18 Speaker 01 You know, something that I did not share with Kevin. I did not share that. Two or three years of them growing up playing music.
32:28 Billy Corgan? And you know when you're.
32:30 Speaker 01 Exactly.
32:31 Billy Corgan? You know.
32:32 Speaker 01 And that's what happened to Kevin. He got bitter because he lost Randy. He lost the opportunity to play with Randy.
32:41 Speaker 01 After Randy, you know, was in Ozzy.
32:43 Billy Corgan? I see.
32:43 Speaker 01 So that's, that's what really, you know, there, there were three Kevins that I played with. There was Kevin with, with the Randy Rose era, then the Dubro Kevin, and then the Metal Health Kevin. And that, he was damaged by Randy's passing by then. And then also, once we made it,
33:01 Speaker 01 all the leeches come out in LA and then the, you know, the easiest way to bypass all the struggle that you have to be to a musician to get into the circle of success is to like, come on, let me give you, you know, you, you want some of this, you want some of that? I'll give it to you. And then all of a sudden you become best buddies and you are in that circle.
33:23 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
33:23 Speaker 01 And that's what happens.
33:24 Billy Corgan? The fastest way to get to a band when they're young is drugs.
33:29 Billy Corgan? We had a, we had a guy once, walk up to us backstage and he just had all these drugs. And we just met the guy five seconds ago and next thing you know, we start doing all this guy's drugs. And as we're doing the drugs, we're saying, we might die. He might be, we might be taking poison. It's like so stupid.
33:45 Speaker 01 I know.
33:46 Billy Corgan? Made total sense, right? We met this guy, he's got a bunch of drugs. Hey, come on, what's your name? Phil, come on, Phil, come hang out with us.
33:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, all of a sudden he's your new tour manager.
34:00 Billy Corgan? One more, one more round on the, on the Metal Health album.
34:05 Billy Corgan? I know it's, it's overly simple to say, did you know you had something special? But did you feel why you were making the record? That something different was happening?
34:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, you know what?
34:20 Speaker 01 If you put together, uh, side by side, if you listen to Speak of the Devil, my performance on that.
34:27 Billy Corgan? Yeah. I had that record too.
34:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, if, and if you listen to Metal Health, it's like two different bass players. First of all, when I, when I, I went into record Thunderbird and there was enough time left in the session, uh, the producer said, do you remember Slick by Cadillac? Yeah, let's do it. So we cut it in two passes. Uh, my, my equipment was already on its way to New York to record Speak of the Devil. So I had my practice bass, which was a Roland synthesizer.
34:59 Billy Corgan? Oh, he had one of those.
35:00 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, one GR55, whatever. And that's what you hear on Thunderbird, which had like a chorus singing.
35:06 Billy Corgan? Yeah, yeah.
35:06 Speaker 01 For the rest of the songs, that wasn't appropriate, right? So I wanted to, I took off the synthesizer and just plug it in directly into the pickup that he had. And I say, well, you know, this is, there's no record deal, so I'm, I'm sure that if, if these guys ever get a record deal, this, this will be just a demo, you know? So it was kind of like.
35:27 Billy Corgan? Famous, famous last words.
35:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was kind of treated that way. And then they, there was, there was time for two songs that I knew from Dubrow, besides Thunderbird. Let's Get Crazy and Loser. So by the time I left that session, I'm still a member of Ozzy. I recorded four songs for Metal Health. And then I went back to New York and there's again, there's this doom and gloom.
35:56 Speaker 01 You know, of being, you know, playing in the band. I mean, I love playing musically in the band, but it had become, become very hard.
36:05 Billy Corgan? Well, it had to be hard for Ozzy to have to play Black Sabbath songs. When he's coming off all that success. You've lost Randy, which is beyond a tragedy. Here's poor Brad Gillis kind of thrown into the deep end.
36:20 Speaker 01 Yeah. It was tough. It was very tough. So I made one of the toughest decisions I've ever, ever made in my life, which was to leave one of the biggest bands in the world for the complete unknown. And especially the way that Ozzy and Sharon treated me so well. They were wonderful, wonderful, wonderful to me. Even to, to this day, inviting me to, to play, you know, with you and everybody else. And that was so unexpected, but they did. And I, I went there just, you know, out of being grateful for their invitation and find out that everybody else was there for the same reason.
36:57 Billy Corgan? Amazing, right? We'll get to that in a second. We gotta end strong, you know? So.
37:07 Billy Corgan? Record comes out, it's huge success. You know what I mean? So really, for the first time, you have your own success.
37:17 Billy Corgan? I must, I mean, it must have felt different. I can imagine.
37:22 Speaker 01 I was too busy. Thinking about it.
37:25 Billy Corgan? I didn't have time to think about it.
37:26 Speaker 01 Because remember, I just, I had been on tour. Blizzard of Oz, we took a month off, then Diary of a Madman. Randy passes away, we're looking, putting guitar players, you know, to come in and finish the tour. Then there's this Speak of the Devil and, and, and my friends were doing a,
37:47 Speaker 01 the Dubrow Band was doing this session and so it was kind of like, and then, so I record both records back to back.
37:54 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
37:54 Speaker 01 At the same time. And then, and then I leave Ozzy and finish the rest of the track that I needed to finish for the, for the metal health. And then we did not do any gigs at all until the record was released in March.
38:10 Billy Corgan? Okay.
38:11 Speaker 01 And then it just, it just took off.
38:13 Billy Corgan? Yeah, it just exploded.
38:15 Speaker 01 It was amazing. I mean, it was serendipity. How we played at the Oz Festival was because we had these, our agency also represented, a booking agent represented Scorpions. And they were doing a warm up tour, like for two weeks that led up to the Oz Festival because they had been in the studio recording. So we did that run from Duluth down to Denver. And on the last day
38:44 Speaker 01 of, of our tour, we do Denver and Barry Fay, who was the promoter for the Oz Festival. He's the one who booked the bands. He, he had just moved John Mellencamp, no, Joe Walsh.
38:57 Billy Corgan? Okay.
38:58 Speaker 01 From the Metal Day.
39:01 Speaker 01 To the pop day, Stevie Nixon.
39:03 Billy Corgan? So we had a spot open.
39:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, spot open.
39:05 Billy Corgan? So you guys just got kind of thrown on them.
39:07 Speaker 01 And he runs into our dressing room after our show and says, hey, guys, introducing himself. And how would you guys like to play the Oz Festival? So we said yes on the spot and we didn't really have a crew when we played there. We just had to call up friends to borrow equipment because all the equipment had been booked by the other bands.
39:25 Billy Corgan? Now, is it, is it a true story that Ozzy punched you at this gig?
39:29 Speaker 01 Not there.
39:31 Billy Corgan? Not there?
39:31 Speaker 01 I think we didn't see anybody because we were in the middle of our own tour. So we, we got off the stage like around 12:30 because we went on at noon. I think we did half an hour and then we towel off. My wife was my girlfriend at the time, she was there. This is 1983 and just went back to the airport and flew back out to on the road again. It was in 1984 that that incident happened.
40:01 Billy Corgan? Okay.
40:01 Speaker 01 And it was not at the event, it was at a hotel.
40:04 Billy Corgan? Yeah, okay. I just, I just thought it was so strange, you know what I mean?
40:08 Speaker 01 So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a better headline.
40:11 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
40:13 Speaker 01 No, but I, we, we didn't see anybody. We were just like this split.
40:17 Billy Corgan? Um, so as I alluded to before, uh, your man Kevin Dubrow, uh, his, his relationship with the press. And I say this as somebody who has a very fractious relationship with the press for many, many years. He seemed to really lean into it, right? Is that, is that accurate? That's my memory of the time. I, I, here's two things. I remember seeing you either on like American Bandstand or something. Does that sound right? It was like one of those types of shows.
40:48 Billy Corgan? On, on, on the quiet, on Metal Health.
40:50 Speaker 01 Solid Gold, we used to do a Solid Gold a lot.
40:53 Billy Corgan? Okay, I remember seeing you on there.
40:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:55 Billy Corgan? Right?
40:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:56 Billy Corgan? And it was like, you guys came from Mars or something, you know what I mean? Because it's like, I'd seen you, but it was like you being on one of those shows felt like.
41:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:03 Billy Corgan? But that's America, right? When something kicks in, suddenly you're on the show you shouldn't be on.
41:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:08 Billy Corgan? So there you are.
41:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, we're doing all that.
41:10 Billy Corgan? All of it, right?
41:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:12 Billy Corgan? So I have a memory of seeing you on there.
41:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:14 Billy Corgan? And then my, my other memory is a lot of MTV.
41:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:17 Billy Corgan? A lot of MTV.
41:18 Speaker 01 Come and Feel the Noise was on every half hour.
41:21 Billy Corgan? But what a great video, what a great song. I mean, I still think that's one of the great. I mean, it's so on point.
41:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:29 Billy Corgan? Um, but from a personal point of view, because I know I drove my band crazy with my mouth.
41:36 Billy Corgan? Okay, so I'm saying this in the flip side. You're somebody who's, you know, you're, you're not a person who's gonna go out and cause a lot of trouble with your mouth. That's generally been your MO through the years. But Kevin was a notorious.
41:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:50 Billy Corgan? Itster.
41:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, uh, well, he was bitter because. And this is a fact. We got signed to a production deal.
42:01 Speaker 01 And which means that, you know, you know what it means, but for the listener.
42:05 Billy Corgan? Yeah, you basically don't have, maybe, maybe not, and you're on, you're on somebody else's, you're not even signed to a label. You're signed to some, you're signed to some guy or girl and.
42:14 Speaker 01 We did sign to, to the label, but under distribution by Columbia.
42:18 Billy Corgan? Right.
42:18 Speaker 01 But we were signed to a Columbia record deal.
42:20 Billy Corgan? Okay.
42:21 Speaker 01 But there was a certain percentage that we took.
42:25 Billy Corgan? Sure.
42:26 Speaker 01 And, and, and the bulk went to the production company.
42:28 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
42:29 Speaker 01 You know, but without that record deal, we would have, you know.
42:32 Billy Corgan? Sure. So he was bitter about the deal.
42:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, what he was bitter about was that after our record went to number one. Every label out there signed bands from the strip.
42:44 Billy Corgan? And probably, they probably got better deals.
42:46 Speaker 01 And they got standard deals. And so he was bitter about that.
42:52 Speaker 01 I, my perception was completely different. I looked at it like if it wasn't for that, you know, crappy deal, we wouldn't have this.
42:59 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
42:59 Speaker 01 And plus, we were killing it with merchandise. We had masks that we would sell, the choir ride mask, and we had hats and shirts and you name it. That's how we were making the money. Before credit cards.
43:13 Billy Corgan? Right.
43:17 Billy Corgan? I don't want to get you any kind of tax implications.
43:19 Speaker 01 I know, because we, we had a company that did that.
43:21 Billy Corgan? Right.
43:22 Speaker 01 We, and they, they would say, okay, there's not much money to make and that's it.
43:26 Billy Corgan? So was it a happy time in the band or? I know it's so hard to sum these things.
43:32 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. And, and we were actually too busy to even, you know, Kevin would do interviews. And of course, we, the interview would not be printed until like maybe three months later. And by then it was like, we're moving on to some, something else, you know? Uh, yeah, it, it, it did not get really crazy until, see, because the interviews were, the, the bad rap were, were aimed at musicians.
43:58 Speaker 01 You know, I, what were your
44:04 Speaker 01 rants about?
44:06 Billy Corgan? You mean me?
44:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:07 Billy Corgan? Oh, uh, everybody. I didn't spare anybody. I still have people mad at me. I still, to this day, will see people and go up and apologize for things I said or did.
44:18 Speaker 01 Well, see, you apologize.
44:19 Billy Corgan? And some people will never let it go.
44:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:21 Billy Corgan? Never let it go.
44:22 Speaker 01 They apologize. But you know, that, that to me is, it's a learning, uh, journey.
44:29 Billy Corgan? I think, I think what's hard to explain to people who wouldn't understand, and especially back then, maybe less so now, is you were put into such a competitive atmosphere that it, you couldn't help but see people around you as the competition. Like it was like, it was like a, it's me or you, when it wasn't me versus them. It was actually us versus all of them.
44:56 Speaker 01 That's such an interesting perception because I always saw you, your band being totally unique.
45:02 Billy Corgan? Well, we were, but we were still put under the same forces as everybody else. The crappy record deal, the, the being threatened. You could be dropped at any moment, all that, you know?
45:13 Speaker 01 Really?
45:14 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
45:15 Speaker 01 So it was more of an industry?
45:19 Billy Corgan? Well, I wasn't sophisticated enough to understand that, that, um, the guy in the other band wasn't my enemy. You know what I mean? And in many ways, the record company wasn't my enemy. I think it was just a way of expressing discomfort in a very juvenile way.
45:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:35 Billy Corgan? I thought it was kind of funny too, and I said a lot of funny things.
45:38 Speaker 01 But is, isn't it ironic that the same rebellion that would make you a rock star could, can destroy your career?
45:44 Billy Corgan? Oh, yeah. Still destroying my career. I mean, uh, in the very seat you're sitting in, Gavin Rossdale La Bush. I mean, we talked about it when I did the interview with him. I mean, at some point, he came up to me in the 90s and said, why are you saying bad things about my band? And I later went and apologized to him, and I apologized even to him again when he was sitting in this chair, because he's proven my perception of the moment wrong. You know, I mean, like, the reason that I was being critical of his band or other people's bands is, seems so irrelevant now in the, in the, looking back through time.
46:22 Billy Corgan? Because anybody who can rise up to a level of, like, you, like, we've, we've sat here and talked for hours about your story, to come from where you've come from, to actually reach the world stage and play with such great musicians and be involved with such great music, it's such a miracle.
46:39 Speaker 01 It is a miracle.
46:40 Billy Corgan? But in the moment, in the competitive heat of the moment, you don't always necessarily respect everybody in the game. And/or I do think that people in the media and the, and the record companies don't mind you being in a competitive spirit.
46:54 Speaker 01 You know, that is such an interesting button that you just push. Because I, I, I've dealt with that before.
47:02 Billy Corgan? Okay.
47:03 Speaker 01 And mine is like, again, it's, it's a spiritual journey. So if, if I want to be spiritual about my creativity or where I'm at in my career,
47:20 Speaker 01 I cannot be bitter about it, because I must look at it as a blessing.
47:24 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
47:25 Speaker 01 So it's, I've been in bad situations that I know I have to get out, but I know that I made a commitment, and I'm not going to walk away from them until I've completed
47:35 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
47:36 Speaker 01 the assignment.
47:37 Billy Corgan? Yeah, at some point, I woke up from all that, and I realized it was a miracle that we were successful, and I should be grateful and not. Because you know, you have your list, I have my list. We can sit here and talk about all the times we've been screwed over and this thing and that thing and this promise, but the fact that we made it through is the miracle.
47:56 Speaker 01 Yes.
47:57 Billy Corgan? But it takes time sometimes, and in my case, maturity to appreciate how incredible it is. And, and one of the reasons I like talking to people like you that I admire is, is to celebrate how unique that journey is.
48:11 Speaker 01 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was 30 when I joined Ozzy.
48:15 Billy Corgan? Right.
48:16 Speaker 01 You were younger than I was when you started.
48:19 Billy Corgan? Well, the, we got our first record deal when I was 23.
48:23 Speaker 01 I was different, a different person at 23.
48:26 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
48:27 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
48:32 Billy Corgan? So, back to, uh, The Quiet Riot.
48:40 Billy Corgan? Like you said, the inability to have a, uh, let's call it a, as successful follow-up or, or maintain that momentum. Did you feel that internally?
48:49 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. This, this is what happened. You know, with every successful record, it's a lot of touring involved.
48:55 Billy Corgan? Well, sorry, but back then they'd want to get you, keep you on the road into infinity because you're making a lot of money.
49:01 Speaker 01 Until they feel that it's, well, the record company, until they feel that-
49:05 Billy Corgan? Did management too for you guys too?
49:07 Speaker 01 Well, we, we were on the road for a year and a half after the record was released. And it was like, okay, guys, we need to have your record out for the third quarter, because four quarters, it used to be, uh, Christmas albums.
49:20 Billy Corgan? Yes.
49:21 Speaker 01 So the third quarter will be like, you know, the record.
49:24 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Okay. Write, write another classic album, go.
49:27 Speaker 01 We got pulled off the road, put it right in the studios. We, we don't have time to write. Metal Health took about 10 years to write.
49:38 Speaker 01 You know.
49:39 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
49:39 Speaker 01 It's the first album. You got all these songs that you've been working on for the last ten years, you know, and the next record took like, what, you got six weeks to make this record? It was like, wow. So now it became time. Okay, well, what were the rejects from the last album? So half of it of that record is that and the other half is just songs, bits and pieces that were we used to do during sound check, you know, that could have been cool riffs that became songs.
50:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
50:09 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then while we were doing the radio promotions from every city, because you know how it goes, you know, you get up and you you leave town and then you go in the parking, drive to the parking lot of the radio station, you roll out in the morning, you do the interview, you get back on, then you check into your room, repeat. Okay. And so every DJ would say, well, you know, you're you're the slate song is so great. You should do another slate song for the next record. And most of them said, Mama, we're crazy now. So we thought, okay, let's do Mama to please the DJs.
50:43 Billy Corgan? Okay.
50:44 Speaker 01 Perfect Storm. There was a band called Mama's Boys that at the same time recorded Mama, We're Crazy Now and MTV just ate it up. So it was them against us.
50:56 Billy Corgan? See, there's the competition.
50:59 Billy Corgan? Did you guys lose?
51:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:02 Billy Corgan? So I remember your version, so I didn't know that there was a competitive version.
51:05 Speaker 01 Mama's Boys. Yeah.
51:08 Billy Corgan? Where's Mama's Boys now?
51:09 Speaker 01 I I.
51:14 Billy Corgan? Okay, so we've all been there. The energy starts to dissipate. The record company starts acting weird. The DJs aren't as nice anymore. The people stopped taking you out to dinner. There's not as many fans in this in the wherever you're playing. Was that did that all happen that way? Does it?
51:30 Speaker 01 Can I add something else?
51:31 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
51:32 Speaker 01 Every single band in the world that you are a fan of now is against you.
51:38 Speaker 01 End the press.
51:41 Speaker 01 We brought together metal. That I I think that was the biggest accomplishment that we did for for the second record. Everybody against us, united.
51:51 Billy Corgan? Really?
51:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, oh, yeah.
51:52 Billy Corgan? What was the what was the what was the consistency of the criticism? Not a good band, not good song.
51:58 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, I I remember, I think it was either right, right? Uh, one of the guys from Queen or or Billy Squire saying, oh, these guys by next year, they're they'll be hairdressers.
52:15 Billy Corgan? Well.
52:16 Speaker 01 Well, it's the eighties, you know, there was still enviable.
52:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
52:20 Speaker 01 Occupation.
52:21 Billy Corgan? So.
52:23 Billy Corgan? How did you deal with? Let's call it the diminishment of the situation or the adversity of the situation? How did how OK, start there. How did you? How did you take the?
52:33 Speaker 01 I left the band.
52:34 Billy Corgan? You left the band?
52:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, because all of a sudden, my friends hated me or hated the band. And you you start going down down with the ship. I couldn't fix the situation because all of a sudden, they turned on me.
52:47 Billy Corgan? Who turned on you?
52:47 Speaker 01 The band, my band.
52:49 Billy Corgan? Your band from within turned on you because?
52:52 Speaker 01 Because that was me. First of all, I was married. I. One thing, see. One of the major differences in our trajectory was that I already been through it with Ozzy.
53:09 Speaker 01 I've seen what success looks like and how it should be handled.
53:13 Billy Corgan? And you they hadn't, so you had the OK.
53:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I I I was already, let's say, mature.
53:20 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
53:21 Speaker 01 I had a spiritual center. That was my compass, you know? Moral and integrity and everything else having to do with life. I was married happily married. And they were still on the other path. You know, the new rock stars.
53:39 Billy Corgan? But did they blame you for something or or?
53:42 Speaker 01 No, I I, you know, sometimes at the in the eighties, because of course, you know, your your generation is more nineties, which is post or during AIDS.
53:55 Billy Corgan? OK.
53:56 Speaker 01 Pre AIDS.
53:59 Speaker 01 Was wild.
54:00 Billy Corgan? I know, because my father was from that generation.
54:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was wild. And if you do not partake in the wild lifestyle, you're an outcast.
54:10 Billy Corgan? I see. So you were kind of ostracized because you sort of weren't hanging with the gang anymore.
54:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:18 Billy Corgan? Okay, so.
54:22 Billy Corgan? Let's just stop there because there's other things I want to talk about that are important. Because, as we know, you're still carrying forth the banner of Quiet Riot. You're the only sort of original member in the group.
54:37 Speaker 01 Well, of what became Metal Health, I'm the only original member.
54:41 Billy Corgan? Yes, so you're the only tangible link to that.
54:46 Billy Corgan? But I do, I do want to talk about your, your, your marriage, because as you know, a successful marriage in, in the music arts is very rare. And a successful marriage over forty years is even more rare. So, besides the obviousness, the obvious part, which is you love your wife and you, you celebrate her, what, what do you think has been the sort of the thing that's kept you sane through it all? Because, dot, dot, dot, you literally came from the time when excess was part of the game. It's different now, it's different, but back then it was celebrated.
55:23 Speaker 01 Two towns, I came from Miami.
55:27 Speaker 01 And it's in the seventies.
55:32 Billy Corgan? Somehow I know what that means, even though I wasn't there.
55:34 Speaker 01 Scarface is a home movie.
55:36 Billy Corgan? Okay.
55:38 Speaker 01 And then you have LA, you know, but then, you know, I did not partake in Miami because I, or in LA, because I knew that was gonna get in the way of me making it. I knew it.
55:49 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
55:50 Speaker 01 Because I, I used to run into huge rock stars at the Rainbow, who were completely out of it, and nobody wanted to play with them.
56:00 Billy Corgan? I see.
56:01 Speaker 01 Because they were irresponsible. I mean, these are people who are gigantic talents, and now they have cleaned up. You know, and they have their own story. But I learned from that.
56:12 Billy Corgan? I see.
56:12 Speaker 01 You know.
56:15 Speaker 01 And so it, it.
56:20 Speaker 01 You know, when you're with the right person, you you just know it. Because every day you want to be with them. You know, even if I'm on the road, you know, this is the person that I want to come home to. But you know, as much as it is a journey of a celebration. When I go on the road with Quiet Riot. As soon as I step in my garage, garage to get in my car to go to the airport. It's my journey home.
56:44 Billy Corgan? I see.
56:45 Speaker 01 It's the beginning. It's all about me coming home.
56:47 Billy Corgan? I see.
56:48 Speaker 01 To my wife and my little dogs, you know, Willow. And it's been like that, I mean, since we first got together in nineteen eighty one. I found that she was the only person that I really wanted to be when I was back in L A. And I think same to humor. We have fun. I think fun is such an important part of any relationship.
57:14 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
57:15 Speaker 01 Even in a band, you gotta have fun.
57:16 Billy Corgan? What would you, what would you say to somebody because, you know, especially young people? You know, there's still, we all know what it means when we say rock and roll fantasy.
57:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:26 Billy Corgan? So what would you say to someone who's young? That hasn't lived their rock and roll fantasy or their version of the fantasy? What, what is it about? Love and fidelity in marriage that always trumps the rock and roll fantasy?
57:42 Speaker 01 I, you know, that's a great question and often, you know, couples were asked, man, we want one of one from the couple. How do you know it's the right one? It's as well, if you. If you can imagine your life going on without this person. They're not the right one.
58:01 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
58:01 Speaker 01 You gotta find the one that. You cannot imagine your life.
58:06 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
58:06 Speaker 01 Going on without them.
58:08 Billy Corgan? Yeah, I, I to praise my wife in the, in the, in the thought. It wasn't until I had that relationship with her and now with my children. It was the first time in my life I actually. Understood what was missing in my life because I had everything else.
58:27 Billy Corgan? It was the one thing I couldn't buy. It was the one thing I couldn't manufacture with my talent. I had to commit to one person to really get the best out of life. And what was amazing was for the first time in my life, I started enjoying my musical life. Because I didn't need my musical life to be what I didn't have. My musical life could just be my musical life, which is fantastic.
58:51 Speaker 01 I know exactly what you're talking about.
58:54 Billy Corgan? Okay, last thing, because we, we shared this incredible three days with the Ozzy final show, the Black Sabbath final show. And, you know, we had to play with such great, you know, you know, you were, you were, you were kind of one of the MVPs that was playing with a lot of different musicians, but Sammy Hagar, Tom Morello, Nuno Bettencourt, Chad Smith.
59:19 Speaker 01 KK?
59:20 Billy Corgan? KK, I mean, so incredible, right? And, and one memory that I have, that I will always hold is me and you looked at each other about 10 times during those three days and thought, this is really fun. This is awesome. We're having such a cool time. But I don't know, I don't, I don't have a question as much as a, you know, for you, because particularly because of your relationship to Sharon and Ozzy. It's a lot of emotions to process because we went through the whole joy of playing together. It's the, I don't know, you tell me, it's the most behaved I've ever seen a group of rock stars in my life. And to me, it was everybody, it was in tribute to Ozzy and Sabbath.
1:00:04 Billy Corgan? Everybody was on their best behavior. I've never seen anything like it. I never saw one ego moment. I never saw one tantrum where somebody's dressing room was. It was, everybody was just on their, it was like summer camp. Everybody was just a great mood. Was that your experience too?
1:00:19 Speaker 01 Absolutely, absolutely. And the day before the show, July 4th, I was standing with Sharon and Ross Alvin.
1:00:32 Billy Corgan? The great photographer.
1:00:34 Speaker 01 And I, we're talking and it dawned on me, and we talked about this, that we were the only people besides Ozzy and my wife that had been present at their wedding on July 4th, 1982.
1:00:51 Billy Corgan? I mean.
1:00:52 Speaker 01 You know, and then I just happened to have a photo that somebody sent me recently that Ross Hoffman took of during the wedding, there was a luau band.
1:01:05 Billy Corgan? And Ozzy got up or something, right?
1:01:06 Speaker 01 We got up and I, I'm playing a stand up bass and Brad Gilchrist is playing an acoustic guitar and Ozzy singing, he's got a lay on and we're doing Paranoid. The rum version.
1:01:19 Billy Corgan? Yeah, the rum version.
1:01:20 Speaker 01 Paranoid and, and we're going like, wow. And then the year before, what was our first Ozzy show in, at a stadium? It was a, a Day on the Green, Bill Graham's Day on the Green in San Francisco, Oakland, Oakland Stadium, actually. And so we had, and Ross was there taking the photos. It was like this, this moment that we all shared, you know, in our lives and,
1:01:50 Speaker 01 and watching Ozzy so energetic during his performance with both, uh, this solo and Black Sabbath.
1:02:01 Speaker 01 It gave me the sense of like, well, maybe he's not as ill as
1:02:05 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:02:06 Speaker 01 we think he is or that we experienced.
1:02:09 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:02:10 Speaker 01 Because you know, during the photo session, you and I, we were hanging and Ozzy was kind of like conserving his energy. He was rehearsing still.
1:02:16 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:02:17 Speaker 01 With both Black Sabbath and, and the Ozzy. But he was kind of like, you know, you could see he was a bit frail, but his performance was like, it was like a maniac.
1:02:26 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:02:27 Speaker 01 Still, he was sitting down, but still, you know, jumping up and down. And then a couple of weeks later, I get a text from a friend giving me condolences. And I go, what's going on? And he tells me what it was and it was like.
1:02:43 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:02:44 Speaker 01 And immediately, immediately started getting requests to, you know, to make a
1:02:53 Billy Corgan? Statement or talk, or yeah.
1:02:55 Speaker 01 And it was like.
1:02:57 Speaker 01 I I'm I'm speechless. I I don't know what to say.
1:03:02 Speaker 01 And it took me two weeks, two weeks to get a sense of why I was feeling like that. A feeling that it was just like I had when we lost Randy. I I was lost.
1:03:21 Speaker 01 Why am I feeling this loss? And then it came to realize that Randy, Ozzy, and Sharon are the three people responsible for my career. And to lose one of them again, another one.
1:03:37 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:03:38 Speaker 01 I I it was the same sense of sense of loss.
1:03:42 Billy Corgan? Yeah. Yeah, I think, um, you know, I because I'd been involved in the in the final show, I got drafted to do some interviews afterwards. And because out of respect for Sharon and of course Ozzy, I I I wanted to help set maybe the right tone.
1:04:05 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
1:04:07 Billy Corgan? And I'll give you a quick, quick funny thing, funny.
1:04:11 Billy Corgan? So that night, the the day Ozzy passed, that night I was on BBC Radio, which is obviously a pretty big deal in England. And I was in England at the time because I was rehearsing with my band.
1:04:23 Billy Corgan? And they said, OK, you know, uh, we're going to play this thing and then we're going to come come to you. And Henry Rollins was also talking. And so it starts with like a news report. Like today, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was all the dumb stuff with Ozzy, the biting of the head and the thing, even talking about stuff that had gone on between Sharon and Ozzy. And I thought, my God, he's he's not even been passed away for six, eight hours. So they play all that. And then they come to me, you know, live, you know what I mean? So I felt like I was in the right place because I wanted to say the right things that people like us care about. Ozzy's influence, Ozzy's longevity, you know?
1:05:07 Billy Corgan? And even at the end, the guy said, how would you rate his legacy? And I said, well, you may not understand what I'm saying, but I would put Ozzy up there with Sinatra as a singular voice who for four to five decades touched people through the magic of their voice. And I, I, I don't even think that they as singers even understand the power of that. Because for them, it's just natural. They open their mouth and that comes that sound. And the guy laughed. Like, I've never heard a comparison to that before. And then they cut me off, you know what I mean? They, they didn't cut me off to cut me off because they were going to something else.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:48 Billy Corgan? So I felt it was right to be in that
1:05:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:51 Billy Corgan? media
1:05:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:52 Billy Corgan? thing, you know? Um, I'm trying to think of where I'm trying to go with this. It's, um,
1:06:02 Billy Corgan? this is where our two thoughts connect.
1:06:08 Billy Corgan? We love our fans. We love the people who've made us have this great dream of music. Um, even today I ran into Paul Stanley in Los Angeles. And Paul was saying, don't we have amazing lives? Is only Paul Stanley can say it, you know what I mean? And if I could give any, and I'm asking you if you want to contribute to this thought, but if I could give anybody like a little bit of a magnifying glass into the world that we've touched in different ways. And obviously here talking about Sabbath, Ozzy and Sharon, and of course the Osborne kids. Is it inside? It's a family. It's not perfect family.
1:06:52 Billy Corgan? And when we were taking that picture with Ross. Pantera, me, you, Tool, Metallica. It's a family in a way that people could never understand. And maybe not even everybody's a friend. But it's a family that's because it's such a unique fraternity of people. And in that case, it's like you said, it's Ozzy's connection. Metallica, because without Ozzy, Metallica would never would have reached that level of success. And they say it's, it's not some music critic writing it. It's Metallica saying, we're indebted to this guy. And even you talking about, I mean, Rudy Sarzo, you know?
1:07:36 Billy Corgan? So I think that's the beauty of it is for a rare moment in rock history where it's about egos and insanity and the stupid stories. We just made it about music for one day and the love of this band and this artist. And to be there, it was truly a magical thing. It truly was a magical thing.
1:08:01 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And the fans, so many messages that I'm sure you have also read from your fans. How Ozzy and Black Sabbath changed their lives, you know, saved their lives.
1:08:15 Billy Corgan? Yeah.
1:08:17 Speaker 01 It's, it's, it's, um, it's, I think it's, again, it's, it's gonna be an infinite emotion.
1:08:25 Billy Corgan? But that's the way, but that's music, you see?
1:08:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:28 Billy Corgan? That's the beauty.
1:08:29 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:08:30 Billy Corgan? The, the song will outlive us, right?
1:08:33 Speaker 01 The consciousness.
1:08:35 Billy Corgan? There you go. Thank you, Rudy. God bless you.
1:08:39 Speaker 01 Bless you.
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