Why This Baseball Team Has a 4.2 Million Person Waitlist With Savannah Bananas Founder Jesse Cole

We talk a lot about building successful things. But what does it actually take to build something people love? Jesse Cole has built an entirely new genre of entertainment: The Savannah Bananas and the Banana Ball League. They’re a viral sensation, selling out stadiums across the country, and have over 4.2 million fans on their ticket waitlist. On the surface, Banana Ball looks like a wild and entertaining version of baseball. But underneath it all is something much more disciplined: an obsession with the fan experience. Jesse calls his approach Fans First and it’s more than a slogan and the title of his book… It’s a standard. Every minute of the two-hour games are crammed with attention grabbing spectacle. It’s a full-blown live experience designed for every seat in the stadium: players dance, fans are part of the show, trick plays defy the laws of physics, there are multiple sing-alongs… all during an actual baseball game. In this conversation, we talk about building something new for others, from embracing years of failure (including selling just two tickets in the first three months), to creating experiences that make people feel included, joyful, and valued. We also discuss how he took inspiration from Disney and PT Barnum, the importance of affordable in-person experiences, and how his team reviews every single detail after every show to get better the next day. Because what Jesse’s building goes beyond just entertainment. It’s a place where people can feel seen for generations to come. And in a world that often moves too fast to build things with care… Those human details might be what matter most. This… is A Bit of Optimism. --------------------------- To learn more about the Banana Ball League or sign up for the ticket waitlist, check out: https://bananaball.com/ Or if you want all things Savannah Bananas, head to: https://thesavannahbananas.com/ ---------------------------

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Simon Sinek?

  You're going to the nosebleeds.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:02Simon Sinek?

  And trying to understand the experience. And you understand there is a front of stadium experience that is different and better. Nobody minds front of the stadium, but not at the expense of the back of the stadium.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  First-class experience, they focus on that.

• 0:12Simon Sinek?

  Right. To go to the back and say, let's make this experience wonderful at this price range at this distance. How do we do that for you? It is unheard of.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  A term that you hear our team say every day is win the upper deck. We feel more purpose because it's like, these people, these fans have waited two, three years. For tickets, it's their bucket.

• 0:29Simon Sinek?

  That's what, that's, our waitlist is that long, they get their chance. If they go up there and they don't get to feel that interaction. You know, we say every night is someone's first show. Every single night. And so if it's their first show there, how do we make sure it's special? If you love sports, or if you have children, or if you happen to like musical theater, then your algorithm is probably feeding you videos of a baseball team dressed in bright yellow uniforms, doing things, let's call it differently. That's the Savannah Bananas. And like the Harlem Globetrotters from the 1960s, to professional wrestling through the 1980s, what the Bananas founder Jesse Cole has done is created an entirely new genre of sports entertainment.

• 1:10Simon Sinek?

  Jesse was a great ballplayer, whose dreams of going pro didn't happen because of an injury. But he still loved the game. Sort of. He found it boring. And so he changed it. Obsessed with every detail of the experience, he started experimenting, teasing out ways to cram excitement into every minute, and tailor the experience to fan enjoyment. The players spend hours with fans. They do trick plays and choreographed dances. And it's all happening during a real baseball game. No matter where they go in the country, they sell out stadiums. In fact, they have a four-year waiting list with over 4.2 million people waiting to get a ticket. For Jesse, fans-first isn't just a slogan or the title of his book.

• 1:55Simon Sinek?

  It's a standard. And maybe that's why it's working these days. Because in a world that's optimized for speed and scale, Jesse is building something with care. And his players, and his staff, and his fans can feel it. This is a bit of optimism.

• 2:20Simon Sinek?

  First of all, the fact that you have created an entirely new genre of entertainment, you know, where everybody's looking for apps, everybody's looking for online content, everybody's trying to sell something to Netflix and Hulu and, you know, Amazon. You decided to start a thing that's in real life, you can sell out a stadium more easily than the local team. What was the birth of the idea?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  Well, we wouldn't sell out when we first started. I mean, it was, it was a real challenge. The birth, we put ourselves in our fan's shoes. You know, I played baseball my whole life and loved playing, but as soon as I started watching, I realized there were challenges. Too long, too slow, too boring parts of the game that were just, why is this happening? You know, better stepping out of the box for 30 seconds and mound visits that take forever. And I realized that it was just, there was an opportunity to create something fun. And, you know, that's the greatest creators, they create something that they would love. And so I just, I remember watching a game once and I was like, I am bored out of my mind. Now, I played the game, Simon. So like, as someone who played, you should love it. And I didn't. And so, you know, I just said, what if it was nonstop entertainment? What if, you know, there was music? What if there was dancing? What if

• 3:26Speaker 01

  there was celebrations? What if it wasn't, you know, the same rules like everyone else? And then you just started watching how your fans reacted. After 20 years, you continue to find, you know, a method to it and how you can continue to plus it every single night.

• 3:41Simon Sinek?

  There's so much going on here because my favorite entrepreneurs, you know, the best entrepreneurial ventures are the ones who are solving a problem for themselves or somebody they love, right? Because that's when there's passion behind it. Like, why can't I get a good sandwich? I'll make my own kind of thing, you know?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Because you put everything into it. You put every ounce of energy. It's George Lucas. He wanted to create a movie he would love. He wanted to create all the sci-fi, all the effects. He wanted to create something that didn't exist. And that's why he built one of the greatest film franchises of all time.

• 4:07Simon Sinek?

  So, so I like baseball. I'm a baseball fan. And one of the things that I actually like about baseball, unlike basketball and things, is that it's a little bit boring because it's a social game. People, people always say, it's so boring. I'm like, no, it's a social game. You go with your friends, you talk. You don't talk at a basketball game. There's no time, or hockey. There's no time for social. But, so what was it? Because sports and entertainment, yes, sports is a kind of entertainment, of course, but sports and entertainment as properties are not the same thing. Sports is, is a different kind of passion. And though it's fun.

• 4:44Simon Sinek?

  You can walk away devastated. Nobody walks away devastated from a.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:48Simon Sinek?

  First of all, just as an aside, why didn't you two choose two words that rhymes? Savannah Bananas doesn't, doesn't rhyme. So like, what was it? I understand that the game of baseball was too slow, but as a player, we can see that what's happened in the major leagues. They put, you know, pitch clocks and things like that to try and move the game along. That's still, you haven't made the leap yet to entertainment.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, again, it comes to the origin. So I learned so much from Walt Disney and P T Barnum. So when I first started, I was a 23 year old G M in a tiny little town in Team Gastonia, North Carolina. There was $268 in the bank account. You know, they only had a couple hundred fans coming to the games and we were failing. I was meeting with all these people. I'd go, hey, come see our show, you know? And I call it a show because I was trying to make it into, and they're like, oh no, we don't like baseball. You know, it's too, too long, too slow. And I finally was like, well, we're going to make it all about entertainment. And you started getting interested and they're like, well, what do you mean? I was like, players are going to dance. And I said this before players danced. I just said it out loud, but I started thinking about all those things.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  And when you look at Walt Disney and P T Barnum, what they did is they said, all right, we are going to bring together some of the best, like P T Barnum. He's like, we're going to bring together some of the most unique entertainment forms and put them in together and create a show. And that's what he did at his museum first. And then Walt Disney said, I'm going to control the experience. What he realized is that literally when people come in, I'm going to control the music. I'm going to sound, I'm going to have custom rides, not like everyone else. It's not going to be the same amusement park. So you never know, it's the feeling you're going to get. And so I started reading about Walt and P T. I was like, we got to promote and create something that people haven't seen before. And that's when you start experimenting and failing and a lot of failure. Like almost every promotion that we came up with the first 10 years, to an extent failed. But that's how you learn from your fans.

• 6:28Simon Sinek?

  10 years is a long time to keep going.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  That was 10 years of a team that no one even knew about before we even started the bananas. And yeah, but we were having fun doing it. When you have a grandma beauty pageant and you have, you know, women in their, in their eighties, you know, strutting their stuff and dancing and watching the crowd react.

• 6:45Simon Sinek?

  You were having fun.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  I was having fun and some fans were starting to have fun.

• 6:48Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And when you'd see the players and now they're doing a choreographed dance during the innings and fans are like, that's fun and players celebrating after they score, not just like high fiving, but doing full on celebrations. It started to kind of slowly grow and in that team, we went from a couple hundred fans a game to, you know, 2,000 fans a game. And then I saw there was an inkling of something.

• 7:07Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  And so that's when I was like, well, what if we started from scratch?

• 7:10Simon Sinek?

  I don't think your origin story is entirely true. And I don't doubt, I don't doubt the veracity of it. When you said, I wanted the game to go faster and be more entertaining, I don't think that's true because like professional baseball, as we said before, yes, it's slow and yes, for some it's quite boring. And if you want it to go faster and be more entertaining, you would have put more stuff on the screen, you would have had stuff come in between and you would have added the pitch clock to make the game go a little faster. So what yours was slightly different. You were GM of a tiny rinky dink.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:39Simon Sinek?

  You know, I don't even know if it's AAA, it's like.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Oh no, it's college summer baseball.

• 7:43Simon Sinek?

  Okay, so it's college summer baseball.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's keep going down.

• 7:46Simon Sinek?

  Right, it's like 7A baseball team.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  It's not even professional, you can't even pay the guys.

• 7:51Simon Sinek?

  You can't even pay the guys. It's. You have an unknown league with an unknown team with 200 fans coming and you were trying to get people to come, as you called it, to the show.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:01Simon Sinek?

  Which is different than trying to make baseball more fun.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  That's how it started, you're right, 100%.

• 8:06Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  It was trying to get them to come. We didn't change the game for 15 years.

• 8:09Simon Sinek?

  Right, so you're trying to get people to come to the show and people's first reaction was, well, I don't like baseball. So what's going through your head is, well, if I make it not baseball.

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:19Simon Sinek?

  Baseball is just the, the canvas, but it's not really baseball. Then they'll come for the show, not for the baseball. That is really interesting.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  You want, I wanted to create fans of people that weren't baseball fans.

• 8:31Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  And now what's crazy is that a lot of baseball fans have actually said, wow, these guys can play. They do trick plays. They can do it at a high level and there's entertainment.

• 8:39Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  But you know, it's the question more is, is not who are you for, but who are you not for? And I was kind of very clear that we are not for the baseball traditionalists. We are for the family. We're the people that want to come out and have fun and see things they've never seen before in a baseball field. So that made it very crystal clear, like we want to be fans first and entertain always. We're going to make the game fun.

• 8:56Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, because you're not competing against baseball. You're competing against Netflix and you're competing against video games and sitting at home or Disneyland.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And I mean, again, and without being cliche, it's like every day we compete religiously against ourselves.

• 9:09Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Like we do 15 to 20 things every night that we've never done in front of a live crowd. Every single night after every show, our whole team does an LCP, learn, change, plus two to three page report on every single promotion, every single detail, every single OTT moment, we call it over the top moment. Every celebration and we have full notes and then the next day it's how are we going to get better? Because we want to make sure that fans never feel like get stale.

• 9:32Simon Sinek?

  Well, this is something you and I have in common, the idea that the greatest competition is yourself.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 9:36Simon Sinek?

  This is the infinite game. And what I love about this is, and I hope whether people are entrepreneurs or not entrepreneurs, when they're listening to this, which is this has nothing to do with sports. This has nothing to do with baseball. This has nothing to do with live entertainment even. This has to do with a philosophy that you have to make a great product that people want.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Bring people together.

• 9:57Simon Sinek?

  Bring people together.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  That's, it's, it's joy.

• 10:00Simon Sinek?

  It's joy.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Cause if you learn it, when you feel alive, like I look for moments where you're not paying attention to anything else. You're not thinking about where you're going to be. You're on your phone. You truly feel alive and in a moment. And I think now more than ever, people need that.

• 10:12Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  And when I feel that and I, when I see our fans feeling that and everyone's singing yellow and the whole stadium, they're lighting up, they have their flashlights and everyone's singing yellow, 40,000 people. You look around and you can see goosebump, feel it. It's those moments that I know nowhere else in the world this is happening. And that's that live experience. And every night I'm chasing those moments that people get to feel that. And when you feel a part of something, I think we all want to feel a part of something. That's the bigger picture.

• 10:37Simon Sinek?

  So how many teams, you have how many teams now?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  We have six teams.

• 10:39Simon Sinek?

  And how many people work for the organization?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  We travel with 200, 150 to 200. We have three tours going on at once. Then we have hundreds back at home. I mean, we're probably approaching 1,000. I was told today we have 14,000 on our waitlist to work with us, which makes me even more proud than the waitlist of 4.2 million to get tickets right now.

• 10:56Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Because we don't focus on anything else. Every night we're focusing on how do we create a go get experience for our players, our cast and the fans. And if we can create a remarkable experience, an unforgettable experience.

• 11:08Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Everything else takes care of itself.

• 11:09Simon Sinek?

  I mean, you are modern day Walt Disney.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  That's one of the highest compliments I could, that means a lot, especially from you.

• 11:16Simon Sinek?

  It's refreshing. It's also so refreshing, right? I'm tired of the entrepreneur world. I'm kind of sick of it all. And it's, it's not as pure as it used to be. I sound fuddy duddy, but there used to be the belief that if you had a corporate job, for example.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:30Simon Sinek?

  There used to be the belief that if you worked for a private company, it was, you had more control, right? Like, because you could go to work at a public company and you can get laid off any day, but you know, there was stability in the private company, right? That's no longer true. Because so many small companies, so many startups are venture backed now, that the pressures from a venture capital or an investor base on these small businesses is the same or worse than the public markets.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Brutal.

• 11:58Simon Sinek?

  You see basically private companies operating like public companies where it's growth for growth's sake. Growth, you know, that's all they're doing is pressure for growth. And I'm kind of sick of entrepreneurs talking to me about their liquidity events and their IPOs. The purity of the reason to start a business, you know, the reason to start a business is because there's something lacking in the market that I thought I needed.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:20Simon Sinek?

  And I think that other people need this too, or other people have this problem. And you know what? Damn it, I'm going to be the one to give them. And that's where the passion comes from. I think you make better decisions.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  100%.

• 12:32Simon Sinek?

  When you're thinking of a human being on the receiving end of your product, not a shareholder or an investor on the receiving end of your product.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 12:40Simon Sinek?

  Because you have no desire to go public.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  I've said no to every single group that's reached out.

• 12:44Simon Sinek?

  Why would you want it?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Because they have different goals.

• 12:46Simon Sinek?

  Exactly. What I was, I've been so excited to meet you is. I hate to say it, but you're a dying breed. I mean, the willingness to spend 10 years trying to figure it out. That's only driven by passion.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  And sleep on an air bed and have to sell your house and be down your last dollar. I mean, when we started The Bananas, we sold two tickets in our first three months. And we got a phone call from our team that we were out of money. We had nothing, so we sold our house, we emptied our savings account, we were sleeping on an air bed. This is 10 years ago.

• 13:11Simon Sinek?

  You and your wife.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  My man wife. And we had just got married. We had just got married, within three months, we're on an air bed and we're grocery shopping with just $30 a week. That we'd go to Walmart.

• 13:20Simon Sinek?

  She never regretted her decision ever.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  She believed in me and she believed in us and she believed in what we're doing. And it was hard and we didn't sleep. But when we went through that, and every day we got up excited about get to that first show. We can show fans, get to that first show. Because we were doubted, you know, people were called The Bananas and the city was ripping us apart because, you know, why are you calling our city something silly and stupid as they would say? But once we got to that first show, we felt it. And what, you know, it was crazy, that first night, I'll never forget the first night, players have been here a few days, but we talk, fans first, everything we do, the reason why we do what we do is for the fans. Create moments that truly matter, because nothing matters more than making people feel like they matter. Like, we talked about that over and over again. And so I remember halfway through the night, a young woman comes up to me and she goes, can I get a signed ball?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  And I said, I'll do what I can, you know, right after the game. And she goes, no, it would mean more to me than anything. And I go, why, what's going on? She's like, you know, I'm here, my fiance had come to every single opening night at this stadium since he was a kid. And I'm here with his family, he just tragically died last week. And we're here in tribute to him to be here for the opening night. And she goes, if you give me a signed ball, it would mean a lot for the family. I said, of course, of course. She goes, there's one more thing. My fiance's name was Drew Moody, you have a player on your team named Drew Moody. And at that point Drew wasn't with us yet, but his younger brother Logan Moody was with us. And Logan's 18 years old. I go tell Logan the story. He goes, I got this. He went and got the entire team to sign the ball and he went up and he sat right down next to her.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  He gave her a hug and he stayed there for a whole inning, just sitting with her. And he came back down afterwards, they gave her a big hug, came back down and I said, Logan, what was that? He goes, he goes, fans first, right? He was 18 years old.

• 15:07Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  With us for two days. He understood what mattered most. And I watched that and those stories and moments happened every single night with people saying, it's not about me being on the field, being on my team. It's I'm going to create a moment and make sure I'm there for someone that needs it.

• 15:21Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  I was 30, 31 years old, this brand new owner of this team. And I just like, wow, all right. It's so much bigger than who wins the game. People need to feel those and that happens every night at our stadium.

• 15:31Simon Sinek?

  We're talking about the fans, let's talk about the players.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:33Simon Sinek?

  Cause they're good baseball players.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Tremendous.

• 15:36Simon Sinek?

  And so, you know, what's happening in their career that, that they decided to go this direction versus the pros or as a post pro?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  We all have something in common. At one point in our life, we've all been cut. We've all been rejected. We've all been told we're not good enough. That's happened to all of us. So they all got to single A, double A, triple A, one step away from the majors. Some of them in college and they were told they weren't good enough. And then this opportunity came up. And so a few guys take a chance on us in the beginning when we were kind of saying, who is this banana ball crazy thing? And they started working on trick plays, dances, celebrations, and it became a part of what they loved. What we realize is when you have fun, you play better. And it's proven, we've actually done study, like it's when you have fun, you play better. And so these guys come out and even if they strike out two or three times, they understand

• 16:28Speaker 01

  that, hey, I'm going to go make a trick play. I'm going to go have a celebrate. I'm going to go with the fans and go, you know, do some pictures and do whatever. That makes a difference. And so these guys now, at first we had no one that wanted to play for us. Like, what is this? Now, I mean, we have even a major league all star and world series champion who plays full time with us. And so now it's really become something because every night they're playing in front of a sold out crowd.

• 16:47Simon Sinek?

  That's the fun.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  And every night they're going out and having fun with the fans and staying. It's just a different purpose.

• 16:51Simon Sinek?

  Are the teams still playing to win? Like, there's no set outcome.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  No. So that's the big thing. When people compare us to the Globetrotters, at first I'm like, okay. But the Globetrotters, you know, 100 years, you know, that's pretty impressive. How many companies make it 100 plus years?

• 17:02Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  But the Globetrotters in 1940s, they were the most famous and popular sports team in the world. And that wasn't even close. They played in front of 70,000 people in Berlin. Wilt Chamberlain chose to play for the Globetrotters before playing for the Lakers. They beat the Lakers. They were playing competitive games. But then Abe Saperstein, who was one of the greatest promoters of all time, he said, oh, we can really expand this, let's grow this. And he said, we're going to do the same show every night. We're going to have three Globetrotter teams.

• 17:28Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  And we're just going to spread and go out. I learned from that.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  If the Globetrotters back in the 1940s, if they'd said, you know what? We're going to create our own league.

• 17:37Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  There might not be an NBA. And here's why. Because the NBA used to book the Globetrotters so they could get fans to stay for the NBA games. That's how popular the Globetrotters were. They were doing the flair, the fun, all this. But they said, we're just going to do the same show because it's easier.

• 17:50Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  I love every night, every week. We spend all week working on brand new ideas.

• 17:56Simon Sinek?

  It's not wrestling, like the game, they're still athletes.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  So they compete. So the big thing is they still compete every night to see who wins. But we do a show, celebrations, dances, performances that are brand new every night. So you have a brand new show for the fans. And then you also never know who's going to win at the end of the game. And so that's the world we're trying to create, that there's just constant excitement. You have to stay till the end because you never know what's going to happen.

• 18:15Simon Sinek?

  I mean, what I love about it as well is especially for athletes, which is their identities become intertwined with their, their careers. Especially in baseball where you don't have to go to college for baseball.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:29Simon Sinek?

  You're a kid that's got some aptitude. You go to high school, you're playing great. You, you know, you play triple A, you play double A, you can start to smell it. And, you know, you get rejected, you get turned down from the majors. And your whole life, you've been pursuing this one goal, which is to play in the majors. And then I have to imagine that a lot of them suffer some sort of identity crisis.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  I suffered it. My whole life was the goal to play professional baseball. That was my dream. That's what me and my dad worked on every day. And I got down, I got a scholarship, division one baseball. I'm starting hearing from the Mets and the Padres and the Braves and it's going to happen. And then I tore my shoulder and just like that, it was gone. And I was filming a documentary at the time for my capstone project and I turned the camera on me. I was devastated. That was it. My life was baseball.

• 19:12Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  That's what I was going to do.

• 19:13Simon Sinek?

  So what did your identity become after you tore your shoulder? Where you realized you're literally, your dream is zero.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  For over a week, I didn't know. Everyone was like, you'll go into coaching. Your dad was a coach. So I went, I coached in the Cape Cod League for one summer. And that's when I was bored out of my mind. That's when sitting on that bench, watching the game, I was like, I know what's happening. And I'm still bored, just like Walt Disney, sitting at Griffith Park, watching his daughters on the carousel. And he said, I wish there was a place adults and kids could have fun together. For me, I was like, this is a great game, but it can be so much more fun.

• 19:44Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  And so to answer your question, I went through that. And then it wasn't until that coaching, I was like, I don't want to coach. What if I went on the front office and I could create the experience?

• 19:52Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  When fans walk in, how they feel, when they leave, all those moments in between. And it took years of kind of crafting that to get to here. But I think when you mentioned the players, their identity was everything. What people don't realize, in minor league baseball and professional baseball, you are competing against everyone, your teammates even. Who's going to go to the next level?

• 20:12Simon Sinek?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  So you're competing with your teammates to get to the highest level. Here, you know, at the end of the night, our captain gets on the mic and he says, you know, I love this team. What people don't realize, we share a locker room together. These are my brothers. And we compete like crazy on the field. We all want to win. But at the end of the day, we're in this together. And it's a bigger picture. And even after a tough loss, you look around and see a sold out crowd and understand they came for that. As opposed to if you go watch your favorite team.

• 20:37Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  At the end of the night, they lose. You watch people leave that stadium. They are upset.

• 20:42Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  They are angry. I don't ever want to have people leave a stadium or event feeling that.

• 20:47Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. I mean, look, what you're doing wouldn't work in professional sports. You have the freedom to do these things. We could never make professional sports as fun.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I think there's pieces that can.

• 20:57Simon Sinek?

  Go on.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  You can break down the barrier between the fans and the players. Why do you have to have so much of a barrier? You know, people don't realize, our players go and meet the fans for hours. When the gates open at 2:00.

• 21:07Simon Sinek?

  I was blown away by this, that a game started at 7:00 PM, but the gates open at 2:00.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  At 2:00.

• 21:12Simon Sinek?

  That's unheard.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  And there's thousands waiting, because the players, the first impression matters.

• 21:16Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  The first thing they see, we do a big opening, first thing they see is all the players greeting them at 2:00.

• 21:21Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  They sign till 3:00. Then we do an hour and 15 minute show out in front of the stadium. And then at 4:15, we do our big march. This is where both teams are banned, all of our cast. We go through and march through 10, 15,000 fans. And we make sure we feel it. We know they're here for us.

• 21:36Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  They're not necessarily, are you going to get a single? Are you going to strike a guy? They're here for this experience. They're here to meet you. And when we get on the stage and do the big opening at 4:30, it's very clear who we're playing for.

• 21:45Simon Sinek?

  What did you learn from P T Barnum?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  I mean, you look at him, it's promotion.

• 21:48Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  He was the greatest. People always say, you know, Jesse, could you, could you do this right now without social media? You know, people know us a lot because of social media.

• 21:54Simon Sinek?

  Sure.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  35 million followers, but like, yeah, P T Barnum didn't have social media.

• 22:00Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  What people don't realize about marketing, I've learned this over the years. Everyone's like, "Oh, you guys are good at marketing." I'm like, "We spend zero dollars marketing." We invest everything in the experience and we capture that and share that.

• 22:13Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Make your experience so remarkable that it does all the marketing for you.

• 22:17Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  And so what P T Barnum did, the exact same thing. He made sure when you came to his museum, you were gonna see things, you were gonna feel things that you've never seen before. And people leave that museum and they tell everybody. And with Jenny Lind, he created a whole story about her. And when she came over overseas to perform, she sold out everywhere. And people didn't even know who she was, but he created stories and started talking about her. Not just her music. He could build and promote. And then she performed and people were blown away. And then they kept coming back. And so P T Barnum was the greatest promoter, I think, of all time. And then Walt Disney is where my biggest inspiration is. And, you know, his vision was a different level.

• 22:53Simon Sinek?

  What did you learn from Walt Disney?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  Well, he said, "It's kind of fun to do the impossible." And Walt was told every step of the way that he couldn't do something. But he saw a better way by putting himself in his guest's shoes. You know, you can't do a full-length animation film. You can't do sound, you can't do color. Amusement park? What are you talking about? He went to all those amusement parks.

• 23:12Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  And everyone said, "You can't do this. Look, they're dirty, they all have the same rides. It's not a good experience." He goes, "That's the exact reason why I'm gonna do it." And they told him it's gonna fail. They said, "Why you put all this money in landscaping and a castle and these..." You know, "There's no money. There's no money there." He goes, "No, I wanna create an experience that is truly special, makes you feel something." And Walt said, "You know, at movie theater, once you do something, it's done."

• 23:34Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  He goes, "The great thing about Disneyland, it's a living, breathing thing. It'll never be complete. We will always plus the show." And so that was great, cuz he learned, you go to a movie theater, the show's over. It might be dirty, how people treat you. He goes, "What if when you have one entrance..." Which everyone said, "Can't do one entrance, Walt. You got them coming in." "I want you to see the berm, see the flowers, come out and then see Main Street, then the castle, the music happens, and then you're gonna feel this." He mapped it like a movie.

• 23:59Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  So that's what we try to do every night. When people first come to our state and we map the feeling till the end of the night with Stand By Me, which is one of the most powerful things. All the cast, all of us arms around each other, the band playing in the middle, we're singing. Stand by me. It sounds kumbaya.

• 24:13Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  But it's a moment. Again, you feel together and you've gone through a whole experience. That I love.

• 24:18Simon Sinek?

  You know that Walt Disney was so obsessed with it. Do you know why there's the huge berm, you know, in front of the entrance at Disneyland?

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it was trying to block out the world and make you feel like you're a part of.

• 24:27Simon Sinek?

  Which I love. Like, once you're in, you can't see out anymore. And there's no newspapers in Disneyland.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Yes. You feel like you're.

• 24:32Simon Sinek?

  Cause you don't want any access to the outside world, which I love.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:35Simon Sinek?

  He wanted to create this escape. And do you know what the garbage cans at Disneyland? The spacing.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  The spacing.

• 24:40Simon Sinek?

  So what they did was, in the early days of Disneyland, um, the Imagineers, they would follow guests.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:47Simon Sinek?

  So if they had garbage in their hands, they would count.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:50Simon Sinek?

  How many steps they would take before they finally got fed up because they couldn't find a garbage can and just threw it on the ground. And I don't remember the exact number, but let's say it's twenty seven steps. So they put a garbage can every twenty three steps.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Walt said he had a hot dog. And so he walked with a hot dog. And once he was done with the hot dog, so he worked with them. Yeah. I mean, and he used to time the rides. He would time every ride. You know, he went on the Jungle Cruise once. And this is crazy, Jungle Cruise, and it was supposed to be seven minutes. It was four and a half minutes. Boy, he was upset after that. He went to Dick Nutis and he said, what's going on? Needs to be seven minutes. And so they made it seven minutes because they were trying to rush and get more people in. He goes, no, I want them to feel the full experience of it.

• 25:25Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  And he always said, whenever I go on a ride, I'm always asking what's wrong with this thing and how can be improved. People might say, oh, that's a pessimist. Nah, nah, that's the way of looking. How do you make something truly great? And so that's the way we look at everything with our shows.

• 25:36Simon Sinek?

  I love the obsession that you have. And again, you know, it's for people. It's not for a bottom line. You're built a business for a human being. And the irony is, is every business is for a human being. You know, whether you're helping people be entertained, or you're helping people solve a problem, or you're helping people enjoy something, or make their lives a little simpler. Like, whatever it is, there's a human being at the end of every single, every single business.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  And how do you make them feel?

• 26:01Simon Sinek?

  And how do you make them feel? And it is amazing to me in this day and age of engineers and AI and everybody forgets. And this is my big complaint about AI as well, which is everybody forgets there's still a human being interacting with it.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah. Well, and again, that goes back to the mindset of you're feeling alive. Like, it's human, human connection. As we get in the future, I think as AI gets more, people are gonna be more hungry.

• 26:22Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  For the human, human connection, the real connection, where you can just have something, you walk away and you feel alive. I'm in one financial meeting a year. It's less than two hours. It's in November. Our CFO shares where we are. I look at it and say, good. I have no interest in that. And again, we run an airbed with nothing. And so when you learn, you go, you go through it, you experience it like, no, I'm gonna create a billion fans. I, I'm so focused on the next, you know, it's like, you know, public next quarter. Focus in the next quarter century. What can we build? What can we grow? Where can we bring joy to places that people expect? And the youth and the kids, I have a seven year old son who, you know, every day he picks up a yellow banana ball, which is our banana ball, and he's doing tricks. He's out in front doing tricks and they call him Mavtrick. His name is Maverick. And it's just so fun to watch that joy.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  And I think kids used to have that even more. They'd play more outside. Like, there's a whole big future world where I believe we can bring this, where people think it's just a show, to a game, to joy. And so I think people think of the next chess move we're gonna make. I'm trying to see the whole chessboard.

• 27:21Simon Sinek?

  Do you, do you have fear?

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:24Simon Sinek?

  What are you afraid of?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  I'm at my worst when probably the gap in the game mindset, when I, we work so hard to nail something and it can go wrong. And I have this expectation of this amazing performance, this amazing show. That's when I'm at a tough point.

• 27:41Simon Sinek?

  I have to believe that the yellow tuxedo is in part branding, but also in part a reminder to you that you have to be this persona.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 27:50Simon Sinek?

  Because if you just show up in a, in a jersey and jeans.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  Or, or, or a buttoned up suit trying to be professional. So, so.

• 27:56Simon Sinek?

  This is as much a reminder to you, when you see this ridiculous color that you're wearing, you're like, I gotta be yellow all the time.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  The origin of this came from P T Barnum. He was putting on a show. He wore the tails, he wore the hat, he's putting on a show. But for me, it is permission for our team to have fun and not take themselves too seriously. If your owner is in a yellow tux top hat when it's a hundred degrees and he's throwing out.

• 28:16Simon Sinek?

  Technically, it's a bowler.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you're right. And he's, and he's, and he's. I mean, I throw Dolce and Banana underwear into the crowd. Like, literally, everyone thinks they're getting a T-shirt and it's actually our banana logo on the crotch. And I throw it to a grown man that's getting way too excited for a T-shirt. I get it to him and then he's putting on the Dolce and Banana underwear. It's on the video board. Like, if I'm throwing out Dolce and Banana and a yellow tux and I'm the owner, everyone else can have fun and not take themselves too seriously. So, yes, there is a method and that's why we all dress up and have fun. It's just, it's play. It's joy.

• 28:45Simon Sinek?

  It's joy.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think I fear if you go deeper than that, I go to fear, it's.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Sounds trite, but irrelevance, feeling like we don't matter. I feel what we've done, we've put so much effort into and something happens where it doesn't matter to people anymore. It doesn't have that same emotional connection. It doesn't have that same love and passion behind it. I fear losing that, losing that.

• 29:15Simon Sinek?

  But not money?

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we've it. No, money's not. It's it's never been a thing for me. When we, I didn't pay myself my first three months when I was 23 years old at the GM because there was no money in the account. My dad taught me to try to save. So I saved some money. I lived through that. We grocery shop with $30 a week. I did a 2026 fans first report like a quote unquote, like a shareholder letter, but I did to the fans and I shared everything, you know, even where we're investing money, where we're going. And it's like, I just want to put accountability and responsibility to we work for you, even though I don't have to share that publicly. There's no reason to share any of that. I guess I have a fear in five, 10, 15 years that where we are right now, I hope we're

• 29:57Speaker 01

  at this level of emotional connection, joy, people feeling a part of it, pride. We are at such a unique level we're playing. We did the Superdome two weeks ago. We found out that we were the only sporting event in history, in history of the Superdome to sell out back to back nights with 140,000 fans. Only like Taylor Swift, Rolling Stone, like only a few concerts have done it. We're at a very unique spot right now. I don't want to look in 10, 15, 20 years and feel like we can't make that same type of impact.

• 30:22Simon Sinek?

  So how, where, what's the vision for 10, 15 years from now? Like, you're not, you're definitely not doing the same thing.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  You have to, yeah, you have to continue to reinvent. So I think a lot of people think about where their current customers are. I think about where our future fans are. You know, I've been inspired by Disney. So what, you know, they created Disneyland. Where's our world? Is there any sports and entertainment world? We're building all these characters, singers, performers. We did a cruise ship. We sold out a cruise ship, which makes no sense for a banana ball. We did it because constraints foster creativity. What if we have to now entertain for five straight days with no Banana Ball? What could we figure out then? And so we did for five days and actually the last day, which was crazy. We couldn't get into port, Simon, because of the fog. So we had programmed four or five days perfectly. We had everything. And then they couldn't get to port. So we have a sold out cruise ship, 3,000 people, all of our cast. And Emily, who's championing this project, she goes, all right, let's go 8 a.m.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  So we get together, everyone. We planned 17 hours of programming from new shows, new musical numbers, new Q and As, new sessions of Banana Ball on the Court. And people left at around 1 a.m. We were the last ones off the ship at 1 a.m. And the feeling of pride. And fans said, we are so glad that we didn't. They missed their flights. They missed everything because they were all leaving that day in the morning.

• 31:34Simon Sinek?

  Right, right, right.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  We got so many letters of appreciation and gratitude. They said it made the cruise ship because of all the extra obsession of programming and details. And when I look at moments like that, I say, well, how else can we entertain? Is it a theme park that we build that's in our own worlds? Each one, party animals and the tailgaters and the firefighters and the coconuts and the bananas. We create something truly special. We're creating original music. We're doing all these things that we can create. And so, yeah, I see us more in the ethos of a Disney that we are an entertainment company. Youth, Banana Ball, bringing that to kids all over the world that they can play and not be afraid to celebrate and do walk ups and dancing and do trick plays, not be afraid about what people think and say about them. This is a world where you can have fun. And so I think there's a lot on the table. It's just what can we try and experiment with to get to that next at bat and keep

• 32:21Speaker 01

  getting to that next at bat?

• 32:22Simon Sinek?

  Timing matters, right? Because Walt Disney opened Disney World in the 50s and it was post depression, post World War II. There was new wealth in the nation. There was a, um, an entire generation that had missed out on their childhood. That's how they felt, like they went from the depression to the war. And this was a place that they could escape the pressures of the real world and disappear for a while. It's somewhat classless, you know? It's sort of for everybody kind of thing. And so, you know, the question is, could Walt Disney have founded it, you know, 20 years earlier or 20 years later? Who knows? But timing's a thing for a lot of, for a lot of companies. What is it about the times we live in now that makes? The bananas so important, like, why now?

• 33:06Speaker 01

  We learned to create moments, you know, we followed a Saturday Night Live model and how every night we're doing brand new things that are timely, that are relevant, that are trending, and we're able to do, create those moments. And so we've been able to grow rapidly. I mean, you know, we only sold two tickets when we started, but now, like I said, we're going to be approaching 40 million followers.

• 33:22Simon Sinek?

  But that's the shows.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:23Simon Sinek?

  But why, I mean, the enterprise, would it have worked 30 years ago? Where are people's heads that, that you fill a gap, you give an escape, you give somebody, you giving a family something that, like, your moment is now.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Well, what do you think?

• 33:41Simon Sinek?

  I think that we are living in disconnected times. I think that families struggle to come up with things to do that make them feel like a family, you know? There's a TV in every room. At least when we were younger, there was like the TV in the TV room, and that was it.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  You do it together, at least it's communal.

• 33:58Simon Sinek?

  You either watch the same show or you don't watch TV, you know? And maybe only mom and dad had a small TV in their bedroom. And then we all have personal screens. And so I think it's a time of extreme disconnection. I also think what we were talking about before, which is the hyper competitiveness of business, which is growth for growth's sake, and I'm better than you. And the idea of doing something for the sheer joy of doing it, and the sheer passion of doing it, that there is no necessarily a finish line or a goal, that you know you've won when you've hit this dollar, or this number of followers, hit your metric. I mean, it's sort of corny, but it's the joy of the game, right? So I think the time is right now for what you do.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  But what the question is, it's like what Bezos used to always say is, you know, everyone asks what's going to change in the next 10 years, but he said, well, what's not going to change? You know, people are going to want things faster, a wider selection and better prices. What's not going to change? So what you just brought up right there, the question is, will that change in the next 10, 20, 30 years? Or will you even grow even stronger?

• 34:56Simon Sinek?

  I think, I think it's to your favor.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:58Simon Sinek?

  Because I think it's getting worse.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:01Simon Sinek?

  I mean, not to get dramatic, but if things continue as they are with AI and social media, and there's no significant restraints or constraints, or interventions, or re-understandings how these things impact our lives, my prediction as AI grows, you'll watch the suicide numbers go up.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:25Simon Sinek?

  Right. The more that AI becomes integrated in our lives and AI become friends in our social lives, watch the suicides go up, right? That's the metric to watch. And I think that what you do is profoundly the opposite. Because suicide, again, I know this is dramatic for what we're talking about, but suicide is a response to loneliness and feeling unseen, unheard, misunderstood.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:49Simon Sinek?

  And you're creating the exact opposite. You're creating togetherness, you're creating joy, you're creating feeling seen. And I love that, that your players were almost all, it'll change, but almost all rejected.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:06Simon Sinek?

  You know, they're not rejects, they were just rejected.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:09Simon Sinek?

  And they felt like rejects. And you've given them a second lease on life, that they have found out that they're talented and that they're gifted and that there's even more joy in doing something else, still in the thing that they love, which is baseball. But professional players would dream to have this kind of response, especially a second tier or third tier player who's not, you know, Otani or something, you know? And so I think what you're doing now, and it's one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan of yours, is more important now than ever before. You're making families drive somewhere and have an outing. And by the way, it's not like a Disney vacation, which for some families is a year's worth

• 36:51Simon Sinek?

  or two years or three years worth of savings to go on that week vacation. This is a reasonably priced on purpose experience.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Forty, fifty, sixty dollars, no ticket fees, no convenient fees. We pay your taxes, I mean, intentionally.

• 37:05Simon Sinek?

  And there's no open market, so the tickets don't spike. And I know you've put a lot of effort into, you know?

• 37:10Speaker 01

  We built our own secondary market at all face value, which we.

• 37:13Simon Sinek?

  Is unheard of.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:15Simon Sinek?

  And thank you for taking on Ticketmaster. Thank you so much for taking on.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  It's a problem, it's a challenge.

• 37:20Simon Sinek?

  That monopoly. Your time is now and I'm, and I'm glad you're seizing it.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. I think that's a huge responsibility. And I think because our group has purpose and why we do what we do, we show up to every stadium, the first thing we do, we get together, we go to the upper deck, the furthest away seats.

• 37:37Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  And we talk to them and say, we put ourselves in our fan's seats, say, how are we going to make this experience special? We always break it down on fans first. And at the end of the night, we talk about the stories, the moments that truly matter. And. I'm hope as we grow that continues to not be taken for granted. And it's understanding why we do what we do. And it's, it's the feeling. And you mentioned the players, but we have 150 cast members. We have so many former pro wrestlers that have now become part of our dad bod cheerleading squad, the Mananans, or have become, you know, part of the Beefy Boys on the Tailgaters. And they never fully made it. And now they're here and they're entertaining in front of thousands.

• 38:16Simon Sinek?

  Which is what they wanted to do.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  They get to entertain thousands.

• 38:18Simon Sinek?

  That's what they wanted to do.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  They get to feel a part of something and proud and, and doing things. I mean, yes, the Mananans dancing to Beyonce on the field. They probably didn't have that on their bingo card, but they're doing it and fans are going nuts and wanting pictures and signing autographs. I'm watching regular, you know, just our cast members or people in merchandise and tickets. They sign autographs. Think about that. The idea of signing an autograph and that people, you go and go to your job and during your job, people come and thank you and ask you for their autograph. You know, I'm very fortunate as the owner and my wife, we get a lot of the recognition, but nothing makes me feel more fulfilled than seeing our people get that every single day on the job.

• 38:56Simon Sinek?

  But this is, again, I know this is a broken record, but I can't stop. But I'm like running other businesses through my head as we're talking. So airlines put all the attention on the front of the plane and for the most part, ignore the back of the plane. You're going to the nosebleeds.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:12Simon Sinek?

  And trying to understand the experience. And you understand there is a front of stadium experience that is different and better and you're closer and you don't take that for granted and you get more by being in front, of course, because you paid for it. Nobody minds the front of the plane, but not at the expense of the back of the plane. Nobody minds front of the stadium, but not at the expense of the back of the stadium.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Everyone's on the first class experience. They focus on that.

• 39:31Simon Sinek?

  Right. And, and I think to, sure, you have a focus on the front, but again, not at the expense of the back, to go to the back and say, let's make this experience wonderful at this price range at this distance. How do we do that for you? Is, is unheard of.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. It's, it's.

• 39:46Simon Sinek?

  Or rarely heard, I should say.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  A term that you hear our team often say every day is win the upper deck, win the upper deck. But it starts at the top, Simon. I think this is really important. Like if we just talk about it, every night I'll spend two, three innings in the upper deck. We all pass out roses to little girls. So imagine you're sitting up in section 562 and a three year old girl's getting a rose from a player, myself, our cast. And then we do, I do the sing off there. So instead of just be easy to just do, have the whole stadium sing and be on the field, I get in the section 527 with them. And. It's so amazing because they feel, as soon as we walk up there, they're blown away.

• 40:21Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  And but for us, again, we feel more purpose because it's like, these people, these fans have waited two, three years for tickets.

• 40:28Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  It's their bucket.

• 40:29Simon Sinek?

  That's crazy.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Our waitlist is that long, they wait two, three, four years, they get their chance. If they go up there and they don't get to feel that interaction, you know, we say every night is someone's first show.

• 40:38Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Every single night. And so if it's their first show there, how do we make sure it's special? And so we always, at the end of the night, what are the stories from the upper deck? What do you guys, what'd you guys do? What was special?

• 40:48Simon Sinek?

  Do you know Tim Harris?

• 40:49Speaker 01

  No, I don't.

• 40:49Simon Sinek?

  He's the former president of the L.A. Lakers.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 40:52Simon Sinek?

  For many, many years.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:53Simon Sinek?

  And Tim, nobody knows who he is.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:56Simon Sinek?

  You know, he doesn't wear a bright yellow suit.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  (laughing).

• 40:59Simon Sinek?

  Tim would go to the, to the nosebleeds in the arena.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:03Simon Sinek?

  And he would always look for a father and son, right? He wants that bond.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:08Simon Sinek?

  Because he knows that somebody worked hard, they wanted to take their kid out, and for the most part, that's what they can afford is the back of the arena. And he'd look for that relationship. And he'd sit down and he'd see a couple and he would talk to them. You know, it's just a dad who wants to take his son out, he's like, come with me. And he would just slip them two tickets. And he would put them courtside.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 41:25Simon Sinek?

  He would give them an experience that only sort of money and celebrity gets.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 41:29Simon Sinek?

  By the way, he never sat courtside. He could every night if he wants, he doesn't. He sits up a little bit because he wants other people to have those seats. What he's doing, and he, he's very open about it, is he, there's no financial interest to the team. There's no ripple effect whatsoever. It's that he wants to use his bully pulpit and his influence to create a magical experience for a father and a son. I'm gonna tell you one more Disney story.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  I love this, man, I love the love of Disney.

• 41:55Simon Sinek?

  This is one you don't know.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 41:59Simon Sinek?

  I had the opportunity to give a talk to the Imagineers, which is the greatest fun, right? To meet the people who make the rides, design the parades, everything physical the Imagineers do, right? They were asking a lot of questions about the why, and I decided to do a little exercise out loud for fun, just to let people see how it works. So I picked a random guy in the audience to do this exercise with. I picked some gray hair because I figured he had some tenure.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:26Simon Sinek?

  And what I didn't know that I found out later is that his nickname in the company was Ice Chips. Because he's a cold bastard.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Jeez.

• 42:34Simon Sinek?

  Okay, I didn't know that. So I pick on Ice Chips and I don't think he knew his nickname either.

• 42:42Simon Sinek?

  And I start asking him questions, things like, tell me, um, something you worked on that like filled you with joy and love. That there was um, a new ride that they had built. And he went to the opening day to see the ride and just check that everything was okay. And he saw there was a guy in a wheelchair with his son waiting in line to get on the ride. And he said, you know, at Disneyland, they obsess about accessibility. Not because they're trying to meet some ADA requirements. And people who are in wheelchairs will find it unbelievably easy and seamless to go to Disneyland.

• 43:26Simon Sinek?

  And he says, there's a reason for it. He says, everywhere you go in the world, people see a guy in a wheelchair and his son. That's how the world sees that scene. Only at Disneyland, he said, only at Disneyland, we can only see a father and his son.

• 43:47Simon Sinek?

  I mean, I'm crying now, you know, I'm choking up now. The room, there was not a dry eye in the room. And by the way, this was a long drawn out, beautiful story. I'm telling the quick version. And in an instant, everybody understood why he was so hard to work for. Because for him, that was the standard. That you want to make this guy feel like a father, not like a guy in a wheelchair.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:12Simon Sinek?

  And now after that, everybody wanted to work for him.

• 44:18Simon Sinek?

  Because the stakes were high and the standards are high.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:21Simon Sinek?

  And I think that the reason I tell you this story is is that's what Tim Harris is doing on a very small scale. That's what you're doing at a very large scale, which is you're not making people feel like

• 44:39Simon Sinek?

  a bottomless wallet that they you can, you know, we're going to charge you fifteen dollars for a hot dog because we can.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:45Simon Sinek?

  You know?

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:47Simon Sinek?

  It's one of the things that I love that Arthur Blank does over in his stadium because he owns his own stadium over in Atlanta. He's the owner of the Falcons and and the and the soccer team as well. Which is, his rule is, if we give you a license to sell your wares, your food and whatever in the stadium, you have to charge the same price in the stadium that you charge outside the stadium. Of course.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Makes a lot of sense.

• 45:11Simon Sinek?

  A hot dog should be a couple bucks, not thirty dollars.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 45:15Simon Sinek?

  And but this is what you're doing at a massive scale.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  You know what the pricing for hot dogs and burgers in Savannah is?

• 45:21Simon Sinek?

  What is it?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  It's free.

• 45:23Simon Sinek?

  Free?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Every ticket in Savannah because we control the whole experience.

• 45:27Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Includes all your hot dogs, your burgers, your chicken sandwiches, your soda, your water, your popcorn, your dessert all night long.

• 45:33Simon Sinek?

  Wow. I assume you don't have control of the local stadiums when you travel?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:36Simon Sinek?

  Which sucks.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  We can control the tickets.

• 45:39Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  Most of them.

• 45:40Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  And so then you think about Walt Disney, he wanted to control. So when you look at the future, where we go, how do we control the entire experience? Parking now. People charge more for parking than our tickets to the games.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  And so when I think about that, that hits me at my core. I mean, I was sending messages today to all of our team about this. How do we stop this? What do we do? How do we take control? Because just like what you shared, it's like it's controlling the entire experience. So when a parent, we could, if we charged what our tickets can go for. And what they are in the second market, two, three hundred dollars. It's another hundred million. It's dramatic. The numbers are staggering.

• 46:17Simon Sinek?

  Right. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  We're serving three point four million fans this year. I want to continue to serve more fans. How do we do it without raising prices?

• 46:25Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Our president always like, Jesse, we gotta, you know, but I'm like, find a way. Let's find a way. Let's keep it there and find a way. And what people don't realize is our fans support us with merchandise more than anyone would ever imagine because they want to wear the logos because they feel pride in who they represent. We don't have sponsorships like everyone else. We don't do TV rights like everyone else. We keep every game free on YouTube. It is an obsession and it's hard.

• 46:47Simon Sinek?

  And there's other places to make money. As you said, merchandising. If you do a good job, people will, the fans will pay, buy the merchandise.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  The business is extremely healthy.

• 46:54Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  But what, could it be dramatically more? Yeah, but then every day you'll lose a fan. Every single day. Every day I want to create a fan. It's a different game.

• 47:02Simon Sinek?

  And it's a long game, right? Because you're not there yet. It's not old enough yet. But when I was your age, my dad took me to Banana's games and I'm going to take you to a Banana's game.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yes, and it's, it's, it's

• 47:11Simon Sinek?

  And it's boys and girls and it's a family thing. It's not just a, it's not just a sports thing. It's an entertainment thing.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  It's amazing. The other day, so we have, before our game, we did this first game in 2016, our first year, we have a Banana Baby. So we have a baby go into a Banana costume and lift it up and all the players and the whole stadium is going, nah, Savannah, nah. And it's kind of a ridiculous ritual to start the game. And we've kept it every year. It's been a tradition. One of the first original Banana Babies now just went to our Banana Ball Youth Camp. They're going to all the games, literally a baby. And so for the last 10, 11 years, they've been a part and their family travels around the country to come see shows and to see going from Banana Baby to now part of it. It's just, it's, it's, it's on the way. And that's what I hope. It's the nostalgia in 30, 40, 50 years.

• 47:53Simon Sinek?

  And this, this is what I appreciate about you as an entrepreneur more than most businesses, which is most businesses, there's a fear that if we don't cash in now, we're going to lose the customer, right? So let's max out the number of amount we can get because you never know, dot, dot, dot. Where what you're saying is, what's the lifelong value of a family? It's generational wealth. It's generational, it's generational income, rather. You know, subscriptions, the obsession of every business now. These are basically lifelong subscriptions because people will come as much as they can for the rest of their lives.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:22Simon Sinek?

  And buy the merchandise and watch the games.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  And they travel around the country. They have signs with all the places they've gone. It's like, I learned this from The Grateful Dead.

• 48:28Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  The Grateful Dead, I mean, the Deadheads, they travel around the country.

• 48:31Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 48:32Speaker 01

  And they gave up, they let them record, which was crazy. Let them record the music. They brought their own sound to Control the Experience. They started the first newsletter. The Grateful Dead did things for fans that even now, thirty, forty years after Jerry Garcia's done, they were still selling out everywhere.

• 48:44Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 01

  Because they built that fandom.

• 48:45Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  I don't even think about generational, like, the value. I, I think of it as like, how do you continue to create fans in these moments? And when they think back in twenty, thirty years, wow, I remember when I saw it, it was here, and now it's here, and it just keeps improving and it keeps feeling something. And so.

• 48:59Simon Sinek?

  When we did pricing, um, we were made aware that our competition for similar product was charging things like eleven hundred dollars, twelve hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars. We could.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:09Simon Sinek?

  And the pricing we said is we want everybody to have access to our stuff. And so we said, what would a college kid be able to afford? Even if they went, oh, but they could afford it.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 49:19Simon Sinek?

  And that was always our standard.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:20Simon Sinek?

  It would hurt, but they could still afford.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:23Simon Sinek?

  A college kid buying it. Like, that was always like our pricing model.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you do it well enough, you'll have enough people that want to be a part of it. See, that's what, like, we, a lot of, like, you have like a golf tournament, for instance. They're like, oh, you know, we lost our sponsor. We're not sure if we're gonna be able to do it again. Well, then your tournament's not good enough.

• 49:38Simon Sinek?

  Right.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  If people won't pay for it, your tournament is not good enough that you need a sponsor. Oh, we need a sponsor to be able to do this. Create something so good that people want to invest in. We never hear complaints on pricing, on our real pricing, because it's, again, we keep it at a price that we feel.

• 49:53Simon Sinek?

  It's accessible.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  It's very accessible.

• 49:54Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  And so I, just the whole mindset is like, again, we have to figure out ways how to serve our fans in unique ways and more.

• 50:00Simon Sinek?

  Tell me one fan story, a specific fan story, that when you think about it, it is the most emblematic story of what you're trying to create for bananas. Like, when you think, when you're trying to explain to a new cast member, a new, a new team member, what we're trying to do is this. Let me tell you the story of X, this captures it better than any of the story.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Oh, jeez, I mean, there, there, there's a lot of stories, but I, I go back to the, the root. So, when we started, our first seven years, Simon, we Called every single fan that buys a ticket and thank them. We did this up until about 150,000 fans. Now we do it sporadically because we're serving 3.4 million. But we call every single fan just to thank them and got a lot of voicemails, but they'd get a voicemail from us. And now we do it during Christmas time. We thank people that buy merchandise and we like our players, our team, our cast. It's part of what we did. So I said, first year, because we were fighting for fans. Remember, we only sold two tickets at the beginning. I go, guys, anybody who wants to even buy a ticket from us.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  You're genuinely grateful.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  We are genuinely appreciative because they're giving us a chance. All right. And so we're calling fans and we're into the season. You know, the first show happened, a lot of craziness, but we start selling out games. We're doing well. We're still calling our fans. So even our interns, first day there, we're calling fans to thank them. And an intern was with us, Barry, and he sees like nine tickets. Like that's all, that was a lot of tickets back then. Someone bought nine tickets, like a family bought nine tickets. And he called and they didn't answer. And he came in, I was like, hey, just try again later. We want to really make sure that they're appreciative. So he tried the next day. They were coming to a game this coming week. And the dad answered the phone and he goes, I'm so sorry, you know, we have seven kids. We're not going to be able to go to the game. My wife just tragically passed away. Seven kids, dad.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  And so I remember Barry, this, I remember vividly. He goes, Barry goes, I'm so sorry, you know, he's 23 year old intern. He goes, I'm so sorry, you know, is there anything we can do? He's like, no, no, but appreciate it. Thanks. Quick phone call. Barry walks in my office. He goes, Jesse, this is what happened. He goes, what can we do? And one of the best leadership advice I learned from the first owner that I worked for when I was 23 years old, I'd ask him crazy ideas like, hey, what about a midnight madness game? What if we did this? What if this? And he'd always come back to me and say, well, what do you think, Jesse? And he empowered me as a 23 year old. So in that moment, I just turned that on and I said, Barry, what do you think? He goes, Jesse, we got to do something. And I go, all right, well, what can we do? He goes, well, how can we get them out and really do something for the kids? And I go, well, what else do you think? Keep going. He starts writing all these ideas.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  I go, call him, call him back and when you give him something, say, we'd love to take care of your kids and create a special moment. So he called the dad back and the dad answered and he said, you know what? It would probably be good to get the kids out of the house. So Bear gave him his number. He said, as soon as you show up, just give me a call. Showed up, brought him in. He had the front row of seats and Barry had merchandise and all these things for the kids. But then as soon as they sat down, all the players came and they just spent time with them. This was before the gates opened, just 20, 30 minutes, players just, these are all college players at this point, just spending time. And throughout the game, the. Players would come up and sit with them and celebrate with them. And they stayed till the end of the game, which back when we played traditional baseball, didn't happen at all. No one stayed till the end of a baseball game.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  They stayed till the end of the game. They stayed till the end of the night. The players had a moment. We gave them some things. And the father, the dad said to Barry, that was the last gift. My wife gave our kids. I could never imagine a better gift. And the kids walked out and now they they've become a part of our family when they come to the games. And we do a lot more now and a lot more details. But when I think back to a 23 year old intern. Fulfilling a whole night, going to the extra level and having the seven kids there and seeing that impact. And now that they've become lifelong Banana fans, Banana Ball fans. I just think about that. He put it together. The players were involved. The cast was involved. They stayed till the end. We created a moment and it was it was pretty special.

• 53:46Simon Sinek?

  What was your childhood like?

• 53:48Speaker 01

  As an only child, my dad was an only child. My dad's dad was an only child. My dad's dad, dad was an only child. So many generations of boy, only child. I was a kid trying to make my dad proud and I'm still that kid trying to make my dad proud. My parents got divorced.

• 54:03Simon Sinek?

  How old were you?

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Eight years old. And yeah, baseball was everything. Me and my dad playing catch and being a part of the game. And so now he travels around the country and is able to to see what we do. And so there's a lot of stories of my dad that that mean a lot. And I grew up outside of Fenway and I had a dream to play at Fenway Park, play for the Red Sox. And I was a shy introverted kid when I grew up crazily now.

• 54:26Simon Sinek?

  I mean, it doesn't, yeah.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Doesn't fit me at all. I was shy and introverted. I was scared of everything. But my dad wanted an opportunity for me to be honorary bat boy for the Red Sox. And I was sitting in the dugout by myself alone. And one player came up and sat down next to me. And it was a Hall of Famer, Lee Smith. And he spent 20 minutes with me. And just talking to me, he could have been warming up, doing, he saw me alone and he spent 20 minutes with me. And at that point, I told my dad, I said, Dad, I I want to play baseball. I want to play for the Red Sox. And I didn't realize at that point, but Lee Smith gave me my first fans first moment as a five year old kid. And what's crazy, so after that I started playing baseball and my dad always tells the story. He said, Jess, you know, whenever you came up, I used to yell, because I was so nervous again. I'd say, Jess, swing hard in case you hit it.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  And every time I came up to bat, my dad would say, swing hard in case you hit it. And that's been a mindset that's stayed with me. And three years ago, we got a call from the National Baseball Hall of Fame. And they said, we can't ignore the Savannah Bananas anymore. Not exactly how I expected to get that call, but they said, we want to honor you guys and have an exhibit for you. And invite your fans, your players, everyone. And so we show up at the National Baseball Hall of Fame, there's hundreds of people.

• 55:34Simon Sinek?

  Cooperstown.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Cooperstown.

• 55:35Simon Sinek?

  Wow.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  And we show up there and the first person there greeting me was Hall of Famer Lee Smith.

• 55:40Simon Sinek?

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  And he had the picture from when I was five years old there. And the reason why we were in the Hall of Fame is because we were fans first. And I learned that from Lee Smith as a five-year-old. And it's changed everything. So it's full circle from that shy, introverted kid to now realizing it's a much bigger purpose.

• 55:58Simon Sinek?

  You know, we've been talking now for, what, the better half of an hour, I guess. And the thing that is consistent in the specific stories you tell. I mean, you told two stories of loss.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:11Simon Sinek?

  You tell the story of being a shy, introverted kid. You tell a story of sitting on a bench by yourself.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:17Simon Sinek?

  You tell stories of going up into the nosebleeds. You tell stories of players who were rejected and had their dreams dashed.

• 56:31Simon Sinek?

  And it's, it's, they're all the same story. They're the story of how the world makes us feel. They're the story of having something taken away from us.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:46Simon Sinek?

  The story of not being able to participate because of cost or. Or ability, the stories of being sidelined or put on the side. It's and you're telling the story of self-worth and it's not enough simply to say, you're worth more. It's what insight that counts. Sure. Sounds great. Totally true. But the reality is we're social animals and we do need external reinforcements. And you can have all the confidence of the world. And if the world rejects you, it's gonna hurt.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 57:21Simon Sinek?

  So it's Pollyanna to simply say, it's just about looking inside.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:25Simon Sinek?

  Yes, do that.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:27Simon Sinek?

  And the world matters.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:30Simon Sinek?

  And in all of your stories, it's filling this void to make sure that every single person feels included.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Can I share one more?

• 57:41Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Because that I think epitomizes what we do is we want everyone to feel a part of something. And especially when maybe at a point in their life they weren't. And I don't know if that was a root of me or something in there, but that we all feel that way. And so we had a young man our first year who wanted to get a job with us. His name's Reggie and he called every week. Hey, it's Reggie here. Just want a job. And they go, Reggie, the job fair is in April. He goes, okay, I just really, really want this job. He called every week, spoke to someone. So finally he shows up the job fair and he's got a big smile and we're like, all right, Reggie, we're gonna find something for you. And so, you know, we had him help out and greet fans and, you know, help with trash and do all different things. And so every day he showed up to the ballpark with a big smile, every day.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  He was more noticeable than me in the yellow tux because he's just walking around. He'd say, it's a great day for a ballgame, even if it's about to rain. Like every day Reggie said it was a great day for a ballgame, best spirit. And then so after three years, he said, Jess, I just want to, for the first time, I just want to let you know that my birthday's on a game day. Just want to let you know. And he tells, then he proceeds to tell everyone on our staff that his birthday's on a game day. So finally his birthday comes. We were a big pep rally with all our team getting ready for the night and we bring him over and we start singing happy birthday and he goes, "For me?" Of course Reggie, it's for you. And so, we had cake and we had balloons for him and then I said, "Hey Reggie, one more thing." And I learned this from Steve Jobs, always have one more thing.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  I said, "Reggie, come down to the dugout right before the game." He said, "Sure, whatever you need, I'll be there, I'll be there." Comes down to the dugout before the game. This is in Savannah, so sold out crowd, 4,000 fans, everyone standing, the band on the dugout, the players are lined up, you know, running to the starting lineups of the tunnel. Everyone runs through the tunnel, batting first for the bananas, batting second for the bananas. Everyone's running through the tunnel, going to the line. And then we say, "Last but not least, fans, you know him, you love him, let's hear it for Reggie." He throws his arms up like this, runs through the tunnel, high fiving everyone. And at the end, our coach is there waiting for him with a jersey with his name on it. Puts the jersey on him. And he goes to the line for the national anthem with all the players. And you can see a tear

• 59:51Speaker 01

  coming down his face. At the end of the night, he stayed in the dugout the whole game. So he's in the dugout the whole game, he's having the time of his life with the guys. At the end of the night, he said it was one of the best days of his life. So I thought, "All right, this is great, the story's over." But it wasn't. So, the next day, the players come to me, said, "Jesse,

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  we loved having Reggie in the dugout. He was bringing energy, we felt like we were playing for him, we were giving everything we have for him. So, we'd like him to be a coach for us." I go, "A coach? Reggie?" And they said, "Yeah, we want him to be a coach for us. And he really wants to make his special drink for us." I go, "What is his special drink?" He goes, "He won't tell anybody what's in it." I go, "What is he giving you guys?" And then he goes, "I gotta, I gotta find out." So I go over to Reggie, I go, "I go, "What's this special drink?" He goes, "You mean Regenade?" I go, "Whatever, whatever." And he goes, "I can't tell you what it is." I go, "Reggie, you're serving our players, I need to know what it is." He goes, "Promise not to tell anybody?" I go, "Yes." He goes, "It's water, ice, and Gatorade mix." I go, "Keep going Reggie, you're good, keep serving, I hear you're good to go." So what happens is, so, what's crazy is now Reggie, after, after the games...

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  He's signing more autographs than everyone. He's out there meeting people. He's signing autographs. Now, he travels around the country with us as our motivational coach. He gives pep talks to the guys. Every couple of weekends, he breaks it down at the end of the night. He goes, stay tapped in, stay locked in, stay accountable. He gives a pep talk and everyone starts chanting. And Reggie, people might say, oh, you empowered him. Nah, he empowered us. And every day, we see Reggie and his smile and his joy. Before every game, I'm out there dancing on the field with him. And it's a moment and what we've been able to do that happened 10 years ago that now is continuing. I feel so much pride in the Reggie and the Reggies in the world.

• 1:01:35Simon Sinek?

  What was the name of the Red Sox player that sat next to you?

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Lee Smith.

• 1:01:38Simon Sinek?

  I mean, your whole being is Lee Smith. You are become Lee Smith. I mean, you are seeing the lonely kid or the kid who wants or the kid who's trying. And you're going and you're sitting next to them. I mean, that's basically what Savannah Bananas is and it's who you are.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's why I and our cast, we stay till the last fan leaves and signs autographs. Even with security kind of pushing us out, we stay till the last fan because we don't want everyone to feel not included.

• 1:02:01Simon Sinek?

  Where's that picture of you and Lee Smith?

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I have it. I mean, it's, it's, oh, my parents, I'm at my parents' house right now. It's obviously social. I have it out in everywhere.

• 1:02:09Simon Sinek?

  I mean, that, because that to me is like, that's, it's, that's, that's.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Little five-year-old kid with a hat pulled up like this.

• 1:02:14Simon Sinek?

  But that's the story, right?

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's everything.

• 1:02:16Simon Sinek?

  I mean, the five-year-old you is in the, is in the nosebleeds. And five-year-old you is calling every day and five-year-old you just lost a parent, you know? And somebody's willing to just take time out of their moment when they don't have to.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:02:29Simon Sinek?

  And, and it's the most, one of the most important players on the team who just comes and sits next to you. I, it's just, there's, it's the most human, beautiful thing.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  I appreciate that.

• 1:02:39Simon Sinek?

  Nothing, nothing, it's coincidence that it's baseball because you happen to play baseball.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  It's our platform.

• 1:02:43Simon Sinek?

  It has nothing to do with baseball.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, you mentioned that we, we had $5 bleacher seats. Me and my dad, we would sit up in the bleachers up at Fenway. And that's where we was $5 back then, right when we started. I remember those feelings and I think that everyone wants to feel something like that.

• 1:02:59Simon Sinek?

  I want you to be wildly successful. I mean, you are wildly successful. I want it to be bigger and I want it to last for a long time because it's so pure and what you're building is so pure. And as I said, it's, it's so necessary for the times we're living in. And I want, I want your success, you know, for better or for worse, people will follow you if you're successful, not just that you're nice or fun.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:20Simon Sinek?

  And the fact that the model works, I'm hoping it spurs other, other properties to be born that are so obsessed with fans like you are and building it for the long-term life of the fan, not just for the short-term gains of the ticket or the, or the upsell.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  But it's tough, Simon. See, the thing is, is because if you don't feel the short-term, it's really hard to keep going. So like we, you say, long-term fans over short-term profits. There were no profits at the beginning.

• 1:03:44Simon Sinek?

  Yeah. Well, I think that's why you don't fear it.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Simon Sinek?

  I mean, every successful entrepreneur I know who's done anything worthwhile either came very close to or completely failed.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  And losing everything.

• 1:03:53Simon Sinek?

  You know, I was there. I mean, I, I hit very near a rock bottom. You were there, you on the air mattress. And I think what ends up happening is when you get to that point, you don't fear it as much. It's not fun. I never want to go back to that place ever again.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Simon Sinek?

  I hated it, but at the same time, I survived.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, get, it gets to the, we say this all the time, get to the next at bat.

• 1:04:12Simon Sinek?

  You know?

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  When we fail something, get to the next at bat.

• 1:04:14Simon Sinek?

  I love what your dad said, just swing, you might hit it.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  Swing hard in case you hit it.

• 1:04:18Simon Sinek?

  And swing hard in case you hit it.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  And every day, that's, that's the mindset.

• 1:04:21Simon Sinek?

  I mean, that's the mindset. It's not wait till you get the perfect pitch.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:25Simon Sinek?

  It's swing hard in case you hit it.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Well, you think about, you know, who, who had the most hits in Major League Baseball was Pete Rose. He had 2,000 more bats than anyone else that ever played the game. You know, it sounds so simple, but like people are so afraid to keep coming up to bat and swinging hard because the way failure at this huge thing's pedestal, it's like he, 2,000 more bats than anyone else. And then who, who struck out the most? He's a Hall of Famer. It's Reggie Jackson.

• 1:04:48Simon Sinek?

  Well, the, the, the year Babe Ruth broke the record for home runs, he also broke the record for strikeouts.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Simon Sinek?

  And I think when, I think Hank Aaron was, came next.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Simon Sinek?

  Like when Hank Aaron broke the record for home runs, I think he broke the record for strikeouts also.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  It, it's crazy.

• 1:05:02Simon Sinek?

  So all these guys who hit home runs, they, they all strike out more than anybody else.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  They don't talk, that's why I push our team every night to do 10 to 15 to 20 new things because I know we're going to fail at five, seven, eight, 10 of them, but there's going to be a few that are gold.

• 1:05:11Simon Sinek?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  And that's how you keep, that's what excites me because you can find the gold in all the

• 1:05:15Simon Sinek?

  The ones you try. It's fun. So inspiring. Jesse, thanks so much for coming in. What an absolute joy. Lots of lessons for us, too. There's a lot of stuff I filed away where we can plus one ourselves. That's good stuff. Thanks, Sam. So good.

• 1:05:31Simon Sinek?

  A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by our team, Lindsay Garbenius, Phoebe Bradford, and Devon Johnson. Subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts, and if you want even more cool stuff, visit simoncinek.com. Thanks for listening. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other.