Live at ‘Everybody’s Live’ and ‘The Studio’ Season Finale

Chris and Andy talk about their experience attending a taping of ‘Everybody’s Live With John Mulaney’ and how the sort-of late-night show has evolved throughout its run (6:21). Then they discuss the final two episodes of ‘The Studio’ and how the show pulled off the difficult feat of satirizing Hollywood (31:48). Finally they talk briefly about the new Max (or HBO Max?) show ‘Duster’ (47:08). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Video Production and Editing: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 1:06Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan and I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, having imbibed in an old-school Hollywood buffet, it's Andy Greenwald!

• 1:21Andy Greenwald?

  Nice. So far, so good.

• 1:23Chris Ryan?

  What's up, man? Thursday in America. It's a hot one out there in Los Angeles. Today on The Watch, Andy. A little bit of Everybody's Live with John Mulaney, which we attended last night.

• 1:34Andy Greenwald?

  We were live.

• 1:34Chris Ryan?

  So some on-the-ground reporting from us. We're gonna talk a little bit about the final two episodes of the studio and the studio first season. It's been renewed for a second season, so I'm happy about that. And a couple of thoughts on the HBO Max show, Duster. Which aired its first episode last week. Long in development. We're just gonna chat about that broadly. Greenwald, it's great to see you.

• 1:56Andy Greenwald?

  Do you want to say it? Or do you want me to say it? Like, what's different today? There are a couple of things that are different today.

• 2:02Chris Ryan?

  Go ahead.

• 2:03Andy Greenwald?

  Well, one, I want to note that you have taken the note that Bill Simmons gave Amy.

• 2:10Chris Ryan?

  He didn't give me the note. It's my thing.

• 2:12Andy Greenwald?

  He gave it to Amy Poehler. And you listen.

• 2:15Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:15Andy Greenwald?

  You know, and you're like, well, if he's coming for Amy, he's coming for me next. Cause he's doing it in terms of like new hire.

• 2:19Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 2:20Andy Greenwald?

  And eventually he's going to get to you. And the note was no laptops during a podcast.

• 2:24Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:25Andy Greenwald?

  So currently, for those of you who are not watching on video.

• 2:27Chris Ryan?

  She defies him though, right?

• 2:29Speaker 05

  She has kept the laptop.

• 2:30Andy Greenwald?

  And she talks about it all in every episode. It's a recurring bit.

• 2:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:33Andy Greenwald?

  So, uh, and by the way, Kaya, great podcast.

• 2:36Chris Ryan?

  Great podcast.

• 2:36Andy Greenwald?

  I love Good Hang with Amy Poehler.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  Oh, thanks, guys.

• 2:39Andy Greenwald?

  This episode with Mike Schur and the, the gang, the Philly Justice Gang. It could have been four times as long. So good. Also, I feel like I can hear Kaya laughing sometimes in the podcast, which is our love language on this podcast. So it's great.

• 2:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51Andy Greenwald?

  Check that out. Anyway, so just for the update, before we get into the TV talk, Chris currently is at laptop closed?

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes. It's, it's, it's Jedi blast shield down.

• 3:01Andy Greenwald?

  Do you notice? That's right. That's right. And you notice what I'm doing? The worst of all worlds as usual.

• 3:06Chris Ryan?

  Half and half.

• 3:07Andy Greenwald?

  Half. I can't see it.

• 3:10Andy Greenwald?

  And yet it's open.

• 3:12Chris Ryan?

  This is really.

• 3:13Andy Greenwald?

  This is really us.

• 3:14Chris Ryan?

  You're taking a melatonin, but you're staying up, you know?

• 3:17Andy Greenwald?

  No, I've, I've had some wine and I've had a coffee.

• 3:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Andy Greenwald?

  This could go in any direction.

• 3:22Chris Ryan?

  Fantasy loves a, a Pilsner and a black coffee at the same time.

• 3:26Andy Greenwald?

  This is what I called, this is, first of all, I, I feel like I invented this. This is.

• 3:31Chris Ryan?

  Andy, you gotta let people have some stuff.

• 3:32Andy Greenwald?

  No, absolutely not. This is called the gentleman's speedball.

• 3:36Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 3:37Andy Greenwald?

  At four or five PM, you have a espresso and some wine. And then you just see, that's something that ended for me. I would say three to four years ago.

• 3:48Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:48Andy Greenwald?

  But he's younger, so he can, you know what? He can Columbus that.

• 3:52Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:52Andy Greenwald?

  If he wants, that's fine. I'll allow it, just like he Columbused having Chris on podcasts, you know? No problem. No problem.

• 4:00Chris Ryan?

  Um, we are going, we are going to talk a little bit about TV. Is there anything else you wanted to get off your chest before we get into it? I know everybody loves the 10 minutes of, of free Andy fire.

• 4:09Andy Greenwald?

  So, okay, so I had a, I had a charming anecdote to share, I thought, that apparently is potentially rubbing you the wrong way.

• 4:16Chris Ryan?

  It's not rubbing me the wrong way. I just wish you would have given me a heads up, but go ahead.

• 4:19Andy Greenwald?

  Well, first of all, ever since we've started being on video, there's a whole list of things that we probably should be discussing that, but we don't. So I feel like I could be forgiven for not doing like fit checks with you before we show up. The issue is, uh, we are currently wearing clothing from the same store.

• 4:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, which happens sometimes where it's like two guys both wearing J. Crew stuff.

• 4:41Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, shocking.

• 4:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but this is a very specific outlet.

• 4:45Andy Greenwald?

  So, but for me, this was a good story because the other week, uh, last weekend, I went into a wonderful independent boutique in Los Angeles called Brother Brother.

• 4:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Andy Greenwald?

  Because I went because Hugo and other people like, uh, guy Greg from, uh, Los Olivos. What? Sounds like I made it up. I'm just shouting out Greg.

• 5:04Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 5:05Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, he, he, he loves the store.

• 5:07Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 5:08Andy Greenwald?

  Bell's Restaurant, you know, good stuff. Uh, so I stopped in with my children and I walked in. It was like, uh, Pope Bob going to Villanova. No, Pope Bob's friend.

• 5:19Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 5:20Andy Greenwald?

  Because I walked in and Gary, the guy who owns the place was like, any friend of CR is a friend of mine.

• 5:25Chris Ryan?

  That's really nice.

• 5:25Andy Greenwald?

  It was wonderful.

• 5:26Chris Ryan?

  Gary's a great dude.

• 5:27Andy Greenwald?

  And you are an influencer and I felt like lucky.

• 5:30Chris Ryan?

  I'm not an influencer.

• 5:31Andy Greenwald?

  You've influenced me and I was basking in your, in your rays, you know, and so I'm wearing a shirt.

• 5:37Chris Ryan?

  I think that's fine.

• 5:38Andy Greenwald?

  That he gave me.

• 5:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Andy Greenwald?

  You're also wearing a Brother Brother hat.

• 5:41Chris Ryan?

  Which I do almost every day.

• 5:43Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, you haven't, I looked on Monday and you weren't wearing it and I was like, must be, not be that week. Second, he gave me a hat.

• 5:48Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 5:48Andy Greenwald?

  Am I wearing it?

• 5:49Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 5:50Andy Greenwald?

  Because I respect hats are your thing.

• 5:51Chris Ryan?

  And I think that the color hat that he gave you, the chalky kind of brick hat that he gave you is, is good for your skin tone.

• 5:57Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you.

• 5:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, in terms of your color story, it works.

• 5:59Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, that's beautiful and you're my best friend. But second, hats are your thing, so I'm letting you have that, but like white. Well, no, you don't tend to come in here wearing white t-shirts and cardies. I'm like, we gotta have brand identity.

• 6:11Chris Ryan?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 6:12Andy Greenwald?

  So what's the problem?

• 6:13Chris Ryan?

  But what, what do I, like, it's, you look great. I'm not, I'm just like, it says, it just makes it look like we are sponsored by Brother Brother.

• 6:21Andy Greenwald?

  Say it again. Look at camera one.

• 6:24Chris Ryan?

  Should we just start being sponsored by fake things? Should we bring back Halliburton Energy?

• 6:28Andy Greenwald?

  I would like, first of all, Halliburton Energy wouldn't sell well in New York right now. Two, I would love to be sponsored right now because we have to be on camera. So I feel like this is a fine thing.

• 6:39Chris Ryan?

  But, but like, once you, once you open up those doors, you can't control, you know, who, it could be full Abercrombie and Fitch if they, if they had hit our number.

• 6:48Andy Greenwald?

  My number is very low. That is not a big deal. Also, I mean, we have Kaya, we have John here. They can comment on our, on our visual brand identities.

• 6:55Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 6:55Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think, Kaya, is this clashing right now that, that one letter of a, of a logo is visible on my T-shirt? That is not on Chris's hat, which has Chinese characters?

• 7:06Speaker 05

  No, it makes it look like you guys, you know, coordinated. You guys texted this morning and said, I'm gonna wear my brother, brother shirt. I'm gonna wear my brother, brother hat and all is copacetic.

• 7:14Chris Ryan?

  I see you at dawn for a duel.

• 7:18Andy Greenwald?

  I think Chris is just gatekeeping. It's okay.

• 7:19Chris Ryan?

  I am gatekeeping. I'm not gatekeeping John Mulaney's talk show, though.

• 7:23Andy Greenwald?

  No, we went together.

• 7:24Chris Ryan?

  Everybody's invited because it's on every Wednesday on Netflix at 7:00 PM Pacific, 10:00 PM Eastern. One more episode to go in this first batch. He'd obviously done Everybody's in L.A. during the Netflix as a joke series last year.

• 7:38Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  This, he's done how many, like 10, 12 weeks?

• 7:41Andy Greenwald?

  And this is, next week is the 11th and final.

• 7:43Chris Ryan?

  11 weeks in shooting over at Sunset Gower where we used to work at the, the Ringer in the early days.

• 7:49Andy Greenwald?

  Did it remind you of the old days being there?

• 7:51Chris Ryan?

  It was really nice. It did. It was a kind of weird to see like other production companies occupying the Ringer's old offices.

• 7:58Andy Greenwald?

  Similar aesthetic, though, I would say, that no matter what is being filmed there, being worked on there, whether it's Any Given Wednesday or Everybody's Live.

• 8:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Andy Greenwald?

  Or this podcast, the offices are all the same.

• 8:10Chris Ryan?

  I will say that, you know, I've watched, I think, half of the episodes of Mulaney this season. And it was one of those things where when you see it produced live, it kind of feels like this, like when you go to a Broadway show. Like, if I go to a Broadway play, I have like a, already I'm at a 75 because I can't believe human beings do this.

• 8:31Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, because, right, just the spectacle of this.

• 8:33Chris Ryan?

  Production, the level of coordination, all the people you can see behind the scenes are kind of moving around, doing stuff. I mean, everything about it is just kind of mind blowing when you consider like it's really hard to just like, put on clothing and drive to work in the morning, like.

• 8:46Andy Greenwald?

  Not if I just copy you, but. I get it.

• 8:50Chris Ryan?

  But it was an incredible experience. Last night's episode featured, obviously, Mulaney and Richard Kind, a sidekick, but also the guests were Sigourney Weaver, Natasha Lyonne, Amy Sedaris, who is sort of a Hall of Fame late night talk show guest, and we'll get into that in a second, and a woman who was a public transportation advocate.

• 9:09Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, yes, who, who announced on the show that she had taken public transportation to get there.

• 9:14Chris Ryan?

  To Sunset Gower.

• 9:15Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, which, which prompted John Mulaney to say, like, are you fucking serious?

• 9:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, she took a bus and a train.

• 9:20Andy Greenwald?

  I do want to say, this is a little bit of, you know, only people on site could report this, is that when, that when I was driving away from Sunset Gower, I saw her walking on Sunset towards the bus stop. She practices what she preaches.

• 9:32Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I, nothing but respect to her. Uh, the musical guest was Yul, uh, and let's talk a little bit about it, because I think there was a piece in the New York Times a couple of days ago by Jason Zinnaman that was sort of a reappraisal of the season as it was winding down. And I thought Jason had a bunch of really good ideas in the story that I am straight up just gonna jack for our conversation purposes.

• 9:54Andy Greenwald?

  By the way, you're gonna jack them off the dome, because just to remind people, we're doing this whole episode without laptops.

• 9:59Chris Ryan?

  But I wanted to see you just in general, as somebody who's a huge fan of the show, this season, and probably will wind up in your finagle top 10 of TV of the year, right?

• 10:07Andy Greenwald?

  Not the year bitter.

• 10:08Chris Ryan?

  Uh, is, what did you think of seeing it live? And what did you think of the episode?

• 10:12Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, it was so fun to be there live. I think the Broadway analogy is the right one to make, because it was just kind of exciting to be there. I'll say that as someone who has, this is not even intended as a brag, but like, I've been to other late night shows with Conan's show on NBC and Letterman, um, it did feel bigger than I expected. I mean, it was in a soundstage and the set itself was also bigger than I thought. Uh, maybe that's why they have all those glass grapes to help fill the space. Um, I thought that the thing, that ultimately, like, Zinnaman makes a lot of really smart points about how just the attitude of like, what the fuck, let's try this, is just so missing from our comedy, from our late night, maybe from our lives, that this show is filling an important void. Um, I think that's absolutely true. And, you know, there was a moment in this

• 10:56Andy Greenwald?

  episode when, um, Renee Goldsberry of Hamilton and Girls Five Eva fame stood up from the crowd dressed as Mrs. T. And sang a really quite long and involved musical number that had been apparently written by the brilliant Langston Kerman in like forty eight hours before this performance. Where I was like, I have I left Earth? Have I left my body? This is so surreal and I love it. All that is there. But my favorite thing about the show ultimately in person was how warm and kind it was like the people that was a great panel of guests. Everybody was in on it. Mulaney was really sharp, really funny, really good at very old school, like ringleader-y characteristics.

• 11:38Andy Greenwald?

  But everybody seemed to be having a lot of fun and that translates when I watch the show, but it felt really palpable in the room. In a way that was both exciting and affirming.

• 11:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so a couple of observations are just that like, I think there's something really cool about being there. Obviously, that's not something that lots of people can do. And I'm not trying to be like, you guys got to go to John Mulaney if you can, because obviously it's one more week.

• 12:03Andy Greenwald?

  Also, next week, he's fighting three fourteen year olds. So that's gonna be a tough ticket.

• 12:07Chris Ryan?

  I felt like very like much like it was like a safe production of a completely unsafe treatment. Or rather like an unsafe treatment of a very safe format. The late night talk show format is very durable. It's been going on for decades. Obviously, it's sort of the bedrock of primetime. And entertainment in some ways and leading up to Carson, leading up to Leno, leading up to Letterman or whatever. And I thought it was like interesting to see someone who clearly somewhere inside of him is kind of like, kind of want to do this.

• 12:39Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 12:40Chris Ryan?

  But I also don't want to do this. And like watching him sort of fight the impulses between really reliable, pleasing jokes. And then throwing out a joke that is intentionally unfinished. And when someone laughed being like, why did you laugh at that?

• 12:57Andy Greenwald?

  That didn't make sense.

• 12:57Chris Ryan?

  That was a test. It was to see if you would laugh at something. I only did that for the cadence, which is really funny in the moment. I don't know whether or not like everybody watching is like, oh, cool. John Mulaney is like experimenting with format here.

• 13:11Andy Greenwald?

  I think that you're on to something because the growth over the 10 weeks of this version of the show really, and we talked about this last time we checked in on the show like four or five weeks ago, that like there were things about it that felt smoother, like it was sort of relaxing into being what it kind of needed to be in terms of one guest at a time and like let's do an interview before we just crowd the panel. Like if the calls aren't working, don't do the calls. Like let it be a talk show if that's just naturally what it's gonna be. My takeaway from watching this one, I think it would have been the same if we hadn't been watching it in person, was he's really good at this and not everyone is good at this.

• 13:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:46Andy Greenwald?

  And he is so quick and he was so attentive to every aspect of the show that the idea of not fighting it did feel kind of evident.

• 13:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Andy Greenwald?

  It did make me think, and I feel like we're talking around this again, and maybe this is a very Mulaney type digression. It did in some ways remind me of the Pavement documentary that we keep saying we were gonna maybe talk about that is, I think, playing in some cities now.

• 14:09Chris Ryan?

  It's playing in some, I kinda wanted to wait until it's available to people to watch.

• 14:13Andy Greenwald?

  But I'll say the thing about that when I was watching it, and it's very, very, very 90s in the larger sense, is that watching that documentary is like watching, kind of like being a fan of a band in which the band is running a race and the band is fast enough to run the race, but they insist on running with their feet tied together.

• 14:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:32Andy Greenwald?

  Like just to make it harder, to keep getting in their own way to avoid being successful or popular or whatever the case may be. Watching Mulaney be like, I kind of like being the mad ringleader of this bizarre circus, even though maybe his vision of himself was like, I am a lone ronin. That's actually the correct Japanese pronunciation of the word of comedy. And I can dip in here, dip out, but I'm always a solo practitioner. I liked seeing that even if it's just totally analyzing it from a, you know, from a bird's eye view.

• 15:04Chris Ryan?

  Well, so, okay, I'll say this. I thought that the formal inventiveness really worked when he's doing like a 10 minute monologue at the top and doing like a standup routine.

• 15:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 15:15Chris Ryan?

  The challenging part, I think, is when he goes to the panel talk discussion and has people joining him because not only is he pretty much Throwing away the traditional like you're here to promote something and I have three bits prepared for you and you have four stories prepared for me.

• 15:30Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't even mention that Natasha Lyonne has a new season of Poker Face that he is on.

• 15:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 15:34Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't even come up.

• 15:34Chris Ryan?

  So he also is quickly, relatively quickly, bringing up the guests one after another and then they're all sharing the couch. So they have like about five or six minutes of just Amy Sedaris, then Sigourney Weaver comes out and it's five or six minutes of Sigourney Weaver and then there's a bit and then there's five or six minutes of Natasha Lyonne, but they all stay there for the whole show, for all the other stuff that's going on. And the fact that he's trying to kind of undo the celeb promo circuit thing, that was the thing I found most challenging because you're essentially just like throwing yourself to the wolves when that happens because you're just doing chit chat.

• 16:12Andy Greenwald?

  I think he likes the risk, you know, I think that that's exciting. It's also interesting watching, again, in real time, the themes that work and that don't work. Like the Conan episode from weeks ago when they were talking about like, are dinosaurs put together wrong? Was a great theme. It was funny and weird.

• 16:30Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna get to that. Like, and this week was like talking about whether Uber is good.

• 16:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and it, not only did they never really get anywhere with it because most of the panel was like, not only is Uber good, let's eliminate bike lanes.

• 16:41Chris Ryan?

  That's not what they said.

• 16:44Chris Ryan?

  They were specifically saying that they thought bike lanes didn't work in Manhattan.

• 16:48Andy Greenwald?

  I think Natasha Lyonne was just like, fuck bikes.

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but she was like, because Manhattan actually works. Like, you walk or you take the subway or you get a cab.

• 16:56Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 16:56Chris Ryan?

  We didn't need like 17 other transportation options.

• 16:59Andy Greenwald?

  I think that's fair.

• 16:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Andy Greenwald?

  But I guess that, we can talk about the theme, but it was just more like, I thought it was interesting and an evolution of his abilities as ringleader to in real time be like, I don't think this is working. Clearly the calls aren't coming in the way that we want them to, so we're not really even going to them for the majority of the show. Our expert is, seems like a good hang and was very cheerful, but that wasn't necessarily being given a lot to comment on. So we're just gonna keep pushing forward.

• 17:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Andy Greenwald?

  Which I think is a separate, it's an interesting kind of skill.

• 17:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and it was just fascinating. Amy Sedaris, when she goes on Letterman or when she's, when she's gone on Letterman or when she's. Gone on other shows like is one of the great late night guests. She shows up, there's obviously some preparation of what she's gonna do. She has like a whole routine.

• 17:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Chris Ryan?

  She's got a great outfit on. She was all that tonight or last night. But it was really interesting to find her in a much more casual. Like, I don't really know what you're gonna ask me. I have a little bit prepared about Uber, but like not in a huge. Like, I'm not shouting it from the rooftops. It's kind of staying within myself.

• 17:59Andy Greenwald?

  So can I ask you then? So what are your preferences? So I kind of want to know what your preferences are for chat shows or chat opportunities.

• 18:06Chris Ryan?

  I mean, honestly, it's really not an important part of my life. And I don't mean that in a dick way. Like, it's late night TV even or like, like, talk show.

• 18:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Chris Ryan?

  TV has never been like a big deal to me. Like even Conan, who I like a lot.

• 18:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 18:19Chris Ryan?

  Or Letterman, who I understand like the pleasures of. Like, I was not a big like, it's time for Letterman. It's time for Conan.

• 18:26Andy Greenwald?

  I think what's, well, you were busy. You were going to parties.

• 18:27Chris Ryan?

  No, it's really actually, I mean, it really has always been like, this is cool. I think I probably would say Saturday Night Live is the closest thing I get to like appointment, late night comedy.

• 18:38Andy Greenwald?

  Okay. I think that what's interesting also about the Mulaney project is to think about it in the context of how celebrity interviews or interactions are mostly done now. And the reason I say that is because we, it's kind of trying to bridge the gap between the classic chat shows of yore and the more contemporary podcast space.

• 19:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Andy Greenwald?

  And, you know, it, the variance, there's obviously more opportunities to listen to people promote things or talk about things or be themselves than ever before. And sometimes the highs are higher and sometimes the lows aren't low, but they're weirder. I bring it up because I really enjoyed Sarah Silverman, who's doing the rounds for her Netflix show, which I would like to watch her Netflix special. She was on Marin and that podcast, which I listened to this week, was outstanding because they kind of found a vein that they wanted to talk about, which is aging Jewish parents, basically. And I was like, can I listen to this at point two five speed? So it goes on forever.

• 19:36Chris Ryan?

  This lasts longer.

• 19:39Andy Greenwald?

  But then I listened to her also on Conan's podcast and it was fine. And what you hear in that room is he was kind of trying to earnestly interview her, someone he's known for 30 years, someone who paid tribute to him in the great Netflix Mark Twain thing that was on that we talked about. Like, that interaction was so great and so funny and so on. And then in the casual format. It was just kind of, you could feel them feeling it out. You could feel a lot of courtesy laughs. This isn't bad. It's like you actually get to see the seams.

• 20:08Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 20:09Andy Greenwald?

  Mulaney seems to be the one who has the platform or the juice at the moment to try to merge the streams as best he can for the current moment.

• 20:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, there was obviously a connective tissue between him and Natasha Lyonne that was like.

• 20:21Andy Greenwald?

  She was the closer at his intervention. I didn't know that.

• 20:23Chris Ryan?

  And they were talking about how they first met at a table read for a project that she wanted to direct that never got off the ground.

• 20:30Andy Greenwald?

  Could Richard Kind also attended.

• 20:32Chris Ryan?

  And like, it was like, and she's like, and Nikki Kroll was there and Freddie Amoson was there. And she has that kind of like new Hollywood with an old Hollywood voice vibe to her.

• 20:42Chris Ryan?

  The one thing that was really fascinating was watching Sigourney Weaver, who.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  She was sweet.

• 20:46Chris Ryan?

  You know, you'll see people come out on late night shows and they'll be like, oh, I'm actually quite shy, but here's like three immaculately prepared bits that I have. Sigourney Weaver was like, I'm quite shy. And because I think that there wasn't a huge laundry list of like items for her to check off, to talk about. Her shyness came across in a very like endearing way.

• 21:08Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 21:08Chris Ryan?

  Where she's just like, I really just like to go to the premieres and then I kind of retreat back to my home life and my private life. And like, I live in Manhattan. I've been born and bred in Manhattan. I live there now. And it's like, it was kind of awesome. I think, I wonder when you watch it on TV, quote unquote, whether it plays as sort of intimately as it did in the room.

• 21:27Andy Greenwald?

  And the other advantage we had that I really enjoyed was that when he cut to pre-taped segments, which were almost entirely about the anticipation of his children boy fight.

• 21:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, can you set this up? So this has been a running gag for like half the season?

• 21:39Andy Greenwald?

  Just to say that when they were, yes, for half the season, he said he's going to, in the finale, fight three 14-year-old boys. And they were announcing each contender. And then this week, he was, his staff had him ambushed by three female stunt women. To test his metal and his reflexes. When they were showing the video of him being pummeled by three, quite petite, I believe, show women, stunt women. We could watch, we were watching it on the monitors, but we could see the panel. And Sigourney Weaver seemed very, very charmed by this. She seemed to think it was very, very funny, which I thought was sweet. Like, I think that there's an opportunity on shows like this to be like-

• 22:15Chris Ryan?

  When she came out, she was like, "I am so excited to be here." That I was like, "Man, Sigourney's really crushing tape." I can tell she's really into being here.

• 22:21Andy Greenwald?

  She thinks it's funny. And so she came out, like, like you said, there's a freedom without the tether of the promotional tour.

• 22:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:31Andy Greenwald?

  She's just there. And then she told a funny Jim Cameron story.

• 22:33Chris Ryan?

  She did, yeah, about, about breaking, sort of like the fake glass that was surrounding an alien nest. It was very funny.

• 22:41Andy Greenwald?

  Did you feel like the actress who played Newt should have been more present in these stories? Because Sigourney did keep saying, I don't think she was being disrespectful, but she was like, "I was supposed to break the glass and lift the child." She kept saying "the child" like she was the Mandalorian.

• 22:52Chris Ryan?

  It was probably a stunt child at the time, anyway, right? Like, when you're yanking a kid.

• 22:56Andy Greenwald?

  No, I think the real Newt was committed. And I think that's probably why she doesn't work as much anymore.

• 23:00Chris Ryan?

  Um-

• 23:01Andy Greenwald?

  But yeah, he's gonna fight boys next week.

• 23:03Chris Ryan?

  You know, one thing that Jason Zederman wrote about in his Times piece was the idea that shows need to find a rhythm, which is something that we've talked about, not necessarily about talk shows, but about sitcoms, about other series where-

• 23:14Andy Greenwald?

  Podcasts?

• 23:15Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, I think that there's really, it's a really under-discussed part, because it's such a consumer-oriented business, that it really is not, if I'm just watching a TV show, it's not really my concern whether or not you guys have your sea legs yet, right? And that's what makes it show business, right? It makes it hard for these things to sell. It makes it hard for these things to stay on the air, because you may be like, "Hey, I think we're pretty close."

• 23:41Andy Greenwald?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:42Chris Ryan?

  You know, I think we've dialed all the dials right here with the characters are here and here, or the host is, "Figure out how he wants to approach this." And then it's too late. I think it's, it's like, something that you and I will observe and be like, "This is really cool to watch people get their sea legs or figure out the show." Or decide where, you know, Amy Poehler's Parks and Rec character needs to register in like, her kind of social acceptability meter. But for consumers, I think they're like, "You guys have like, two episodes."

• 24:10Andy Greenwald?

  Well, also, the time I'm giving you out of my life is negligible between week one and week 10. It's still time in my life.

• 24:17Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:18Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't invest in a, this isn't a growth opportunity for me.

• 24:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right. This isn't a book or Hathaway, where I just have to wait for the long gains to hit.

• 24:27Andy Greenwald?

  Are you willing to talk more about your portfolio now? You brought it up.

• 24:31Andy Greenwald?

  I just feel like you keep teasing it.

• 24:32Chris Ryan?

  Why do you want to know about my finances so much? How much money do you think I have?

• 24:38Andy Greenwald?

  I'm really curious and I feel like, I feel like you're extremely liquid. I feel like you could go at any moment. I feel like, and I feel like you know something that I don't.

• 24:46Chris Ryan?

  About the future?

• 24:47Andy Greenwald?

  Just maybe, like I just, I'm a little concerned.

• 24:52Andy Greenwald?

  Truthfully, when I found out that also Sean and other people were giving you shit about it, I was like, this is a great pile on opportunity.

• 24:58Chris Ryan?

  You can't watch as many bank robbery movies as I do without having your money in the mattress, you know?

• 25:04Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 25:04Chris Ryan?

  No, I, I, I'm a really modest guy.

• 25:07Andy Greenwald?

  No, I, I know.

• 25:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Andy Greenwald?

  You're, but like, are you the kind of modest, like, do you remember the woman who had like?

• 25:11Chris Ryan?

  Not modest in my like, yeah, I, I just mean like my, my finances are just, they're just fine.

• 25:16Andy Greenwald?

  No, but it's like the woman who had.

• 25:17Chris Ryan?

  I don't want to talk about this.

• 25:18Andy Greenwald?

  I know you're very nervous. The woman who had the, um, like the McDonald's fortune and then she died and then the, the woman who runs Poetry Magazine got an email that was like, you have been bequeathed $50 million for poetry.

• 25:29Chris Ryan?

  I do want to do that. I do want to do that.

• 25:31Andy Greenwald?

  But who, like, who are you giving it to? Eyewitness News in Philadelphia for investigations. What's the, what is, who is going to be the recipient of the CR fund?

• 25:41Chris Ryan?

  Oh God, that's a great question. I mean, now like so many different places need it, so.

• 25:47Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, right.

• 25:52Chris Ryan?

  I think I would give it to the local NBC affiliate to bring back, uh, what was the entertainment magazine?

• 25:59Andy Greenwald?

  I was thinking the same thing. Um, oh yeah, the one that was on with, uh, Ray, what's his name? And Nancy Glass?

• 26:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:05Andy Greenwald?

  Evening Edition?

• 26:05Chris Ryan?

  Even like, yeah, Evening Edition, something like that.

• 26:08Andy Greenwald?

  That would be great. I feel like right now in West Adams, Gary, is it brother, brother being like, rent's not getting cheaper, buddy.

• 26:15Chris Ryan?

  Where were we with, with Mulaney?

• 26:18Andy Greenwald?

  You were talking about, um, uh,

• 26:20Chris Ryan?

  Rhythm.

• 26:21Andy Greenwald?

  Rhythm and modesty in terms of your investments.

• 26:23Chris Ryan?

  So there's a, uh, self-imposed cap on, on this series that'll have an episodes and Zedman was sort of writing about how Mulaney had gotten his sea legs. You know, like that in the last couple of weeks, it seems to have really started like. Hitting a different register. And I was curious whether you felt like, is it ending its season too soon? Do you think that like, he can keep all of the sense memory if he decides to do this again next year?

• 26:49Andy Greenwald?

  That's what's interesting. I think we had a chance to talk to my buddy Brooklander, who makes the, who does a lot of the video direction stuff on the show afterwards. And he was saying that like vibes were excellent. That like it was, it is kind of like a marathon in the sense that there were a couple of weeks where they were dragging, where they felt tired and like, how are they going to find their way through this? And then they figured it out. And just like when they did the everybody's in LA show, right? When they figure it out, it's time to stop.

• 27:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Andy Greenwald?

  And, you know, Mulaney does not like to stop. He has already announced like dozens of tour dates throughout the fall. He's acting and stuff. My, we were talking afterwards, you and I were talking afterwards, wondering like, is this, regardless of whether Netflix wants more? And I do think things like that New York Times piece and maybe our 40 minute

• 27:34Andy Greenwald?

  just postmortem about watching the show might help as well. I think those things are significant to their investment.

• 27:40Andy Greenwald?

  Regardless of whether they want more, the question is, does he want to keep doing this? And he has young kids, so maybe this is a nice like anchor to have every year. But you're asking the right question, like a talk show with its rhythms, with the insane schedule of like, just thinking about things, generating content.

• 27:56Andy Greenwald?

  It seems like a hard thing to do, start and stop. And there is no version of this for his life, clearly, in his ambition, where this would continue as just a weekly show forever. This would probably, this would almost have to be a spring fling again. And because of that, are we going to be talking about the next season of the show? Should it come the way we were talking about Last of Us?

• 28:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Andy Greenwald?

  In the sense that like, this is, there are good things here, but it's, they have to be graded on a curve because two to three years between serialized storytelling is not working or whatever.

• 28:29Chris Ryan?

  Exactly what I was thinking. It's just like, have we gone past the point where in 25 years ago, the, the goal for any, any actor really outside of like major movie stardom would probably be to be on something like Grey's Anatomy and to have a really, really, really solid life and really stable employment for a long period of time on a show that lots of people loved. And obviously, talk show hosts have like different ambitions than that one would think. But. The model is like, like this is a really good indicator of how like all of the paradigm of television programming has changed. The whole point for a show like this is to be an ad sales cash cow, is to be the bell cow of, hey, like this thing is gonna be on,

• 29:12Chris Ryan?

  Tom Cruise is gonna be there to promote Mission Impossible, the musical guest is gonna have an album out on Friday.

• 29:17Andy Greenwald?

  And the studio will buy ad time.

• 29:18Chris Ryan?

  Everything, yeah, these things, and they're, they're supposed to be, I think they're economically functional because they're so long running. You have the stage, you have your set. It only needs to be built once, right? Like, you can't, if you start like tearing it down or reimagining it every week. And in terms of its creativity, like I said, it's not something I do every night, but when I've checked in on something like Fallon, it's like he's kinda running out bits that are similar to bits that he did five, six, seven years ago, right? Like, there's maybe a new coat of paint.

• 29:47Andy Greenwald?

  Fallon is rough right now.

• 29:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but like, I think that part of that is because it's fucking hard.

• 29:51Andy Greenwald?

  That's fair.

• 29:52Chris Ryan?

  To come up with a soup to nuts creative new show every week.

• 29:56Andy Greenwald?

  But, when, and that's when the pendulum swings back to, like, Kimmel is just old school, he's good at this, in a very, very Carson-esque way. Or someone like Seth Meyers, who is more in the, the Mulaney or the Maron, like.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  Almost like Dick Cavett, where it's like, he's having like thoughtful conversations.

• 30:15Andy Greenwald?

  He's a smart, sharp guy, and he's having conversations with people that he's interested in.

• 30:19Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 30:19Andy Greenwald?

  And it's just reliable in a different way. Ties might not be as high in terms of star power or ratings. I love your Grey's Anatomy analogy, like, do you feel like inside of every actor, there are two wolves, and one wolf is Ellen Pompeo and one is Sandra Oh? And which career do you want? Because I promise you, Ellen Pompeo.

• 30:36Chris Ryan?

  She could play the Dodgers, yeah.

• 30:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. But, she's only ever really gonna get to play that part again. Like, that's.

• 30:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think that that's like, you, you probably ask a stand-up comedian in 2003, what's your dream in life? And they'd be like, to host The Tonight Show.

• 30:53Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 30:54Chris Ryan?

  And now I think that they would probably say The Tonight Show would be a little bit of a drag on my podcasting and touring revenue.

• 30:59Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, a million percent. A million percent. Can I make one last comment about the show?

• 31:03Chris Ryan?

  Please.

• 31:03Andy Greenwald?

  Before we move on. The musical guests have been really wild and bold and like very much his personal taste and all over the place. An artist performed last night named Yul, who I was not familiar with. Yul's performance involved them astride a motorcycle while a fog machine blasted and a drummer, I know you like drumming a lot, was like hammering and then like these dancers were sort of like

• 31:27Chris Ryan?

  Riding around.

• 31:28Andy Greenwald?

  Riding around. And it was actually quite bracing for me because I was like, oh, this is what my parents felt like every time I was like, check this out. Like this, that was the most culturally disconnected I have ever felt.

• 31:41Chris Ryan?

  You thought it was provocative. I bet I was provocative, sure.

• 31:43Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't think it was provocative.

• 31:44Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 31:45Andy Greenwald?

  I just felt like, like my EKG meter would have just been the flat emoji. Like, I got nothing from it. I didn't understand it. And I was just sort of staring in like blank, slack-jawed confusion.

• 31:56Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 31:56Andy Greenwald?

  I didn't understand any aspect of it. Nothing penetrated.

• 31:59Chris Ryan?

  I got some, I got some vibes from it.

• 32:01Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that's because you like drumming.

• 32:02Chris Ryan?

  No, I felt like it was like, there was like some, some nine inch nails to it, a little bit of massive attack. There was elements of shoegaze to it.

• 32:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. No, yeah, I mean, there were elements in the sense that like this table is made out of atoms. I get it. Like, I get science, if that's science. I'm just saying that like, I, I, I've, and this is not a, I'm not bragging.

• 32:23Chris Ryan?

  I know you're not.

• 32:23Andy Greenwald?

  This is actually, this is a self-owned. Nothing penetrated. And that was really shocking. Like, I like to feel like I have, you know, I'm at least, if I don't have my finger on the pulse, like, I'm at least aware there is a pulse.

• 32:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. You have your finger on the pulse of Pedro Pascal's Last of Us character.

• 32:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 32:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Andy Greenwald?

  That was it.

• 32:46Chris Ryan?

  Sorry for the spoiler.

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• 34:33Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about the studio. How about that?

• 34:35Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 34:35Chris Ryan?

  It's another kind of comedy.

• 34:36Andy Greenwald?

  It is.

• 34:37Chris Ryan?

  And it really is a comedy.

• 34:38Andy Greenwald?

  And you love comedies.

• 34:39Chris Ryan?

  Well, when the show first came out and the first episode debuted, not only was I like struck by this cinematic visual urgency of it, the sort of just momentum and verve to like the oners and the flying around and the jazz score. And I was like, man, they really thought about this from all four directions about what they wanted this show to feel like. And you know, there's obviously the built-in joke that it is a TV show on a tech company's streaming platform about saving the cinematic experience. And there are multiple jokes throughout the series that, you know, allude to that. But as a television show, it was like real good. It was really good.

• 35:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Chris Ryan?

  I really enjoyed it. I think that there was an element of the early season where I thought it was going to be a more probing character study of Matt, the Seth Rogen character who's running a film studio at a moment of pure chaos for the seemingly every day for this studio and for the movie business in general. And I thought it perhaps like a little bit more of a character study and a little bit more of like a... I don't know whether sober is the right word, although maybe it is after the last two episodes of the season, but a little bit more of a accounting of like what's going on in the movies.

• 35:57Andy Greenwald?

  Or maybe more of a sharp satire rather than a farce.

• 35:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and I became much more of like a farce where it was like curb your enthusiasm on coke. It was like very awkward situations that kept getting turned up and turned up and turned up until everything is like exploding everywhere. And I liked that version of the show quite a bit.

• 36:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 36:16Chris Ryan?

  But did you ever have like a this show pivoted for me in a way that I didn't expect moment?

• 36:22Andy Greenwald?

  I think we both had a similar arc in that when it turned into in the middle episodes, just kind of a, you know, a riotous.

• 36:31Chris Ryan?

  Slapstick.

• 36:32Andy Greenwald?

  Slapstick leading up to a massive fall, literally, like him falling into a table of something every episode. Or, and I think we referred to this a couple of weeks ago, that like the joke of the first episode with the Kool-Aid movie was that art house movies can't be made, but then for the purposes of Matt destroying a oner, he's also funding a Sarah Polley art film starring Greta Lee that's a period piece.

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:54Andy Greenwald?

  Which kind of undoes the premise of the of the first episode. I felt then, as I feel now, which is Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg need to play to their strengths because their strengths are particular to them and they're very strong.

• 37:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 37:07Andy Greenwald?

  Like they're really, really, really funny filmmakers. So by the time we got to the end, the like the almost, almost on the line of too much ness of, you know, of Bryan Cranston, high on impossible amount of mushrooms and cocaine fellating a statue outside of a Las Vegas casino.

• 37:27Chris Ryan?

  Going down on Aphrodite.

• 37:28Andy Greenwald?

  I was like, okay, I see, I see, I see what we're doing here and I get it. All of that is to say, where the season ends in episode 10, with an absolute catastrophe being saved by Matt, the Seth Rogen character, leading the nation cinema owners in a at first sort of pathetic, but then ultimately rousing cry of movies, movies, movies, was kind of sneaky smarter than any more cerebral satire could have been.

• 37:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 37:59Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's important to remember that this entire project, like it's a call for help from the inmates who are in the asylum. So their perspective on the industry is very particular. It's not, you know, a cutting like, I mean, there's an element in the player of like Michael Tolkien, who wrote, who wrote it, right? Was a journalist who had written about and a screenwriter, but had written about the industry.

• 38:20Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 38:20Andy Greenwald?

  And had been burned by it in certain ways. And Altman, who made the movie, was always the perpetual outsider. So there was a little bit of, a little bit more teeth there. Rogan, the movie business and the streaming business, platonic season two coming to Apple next year, has been very good to him.

• 38:34Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 38:35Andy Greenwald?

  They are doing this from a place of-

• 38:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, they have like 14 things in production on air.

• 38:38Andy Greenwald?

  So they're doing this from a place of comfort and security and-

• 38:41Chris Ryan?

  I would say they have been quite great, which is his company with Evan Goldberg.

• 38:44Andy Greenwald?

  Right. So I, I think that it was ultimately that sense of like, this crazy business of show is going to be less barbed.

• 38:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:54Andy Greenwald?

  But the whirlwind that he created and the chaos, when taken in total, I think does paint a really, shockingly accurate and ultimately sympathetic portrayal of a well-meaning, potentially doomed industry in a kind of freefall.

• 39:15Chris Ryan?

  I wonder whether or not there was some element of when it first began, I mean, nobody really starts TV shows anymore like this and certainly not on Apple, which is like routinely I'll get notifications that it's like season six of this show is on Apple. And I'm like, where were the other five seasons?

• 39:30Andy Greenwald?

  You just say the name, say Foundation. Just say it. Say the name.

• 39:33Chris Ryan?

  But, you know, that obviously the show has been renewed and frankly-

• 39:37Andy Greenwald?

  Well, not obviously. We weren't sure what the project was.

• 39:40Chris Ryan?

  I didn't think that Seth Rogen was gonna do a nine episodes about this unless it was like the, about the death of movies.

• 39:46Andy Greenwald?

  What if, what if I told you he did 10 episodes?

• 39:48Chris Ryan?

  Was it 10?

• 39:49Andy Greenwald?

  Well, you don't have your laptop out today.

• 39:50Chris Ryan?

  Um, oh, right.

• 39:52Andy Greenwald?

  It was a two parter.

• 39:53Chris Ryan?

  You know what it is? It is a two parter. Yeah. So I felt like- Yeah, there was a version of this show that was like the rise and fall of Matt Remick's studio head and it's like this guy who gets everything he's ever wanted and it gets taken away from him because of the natural disaster force of making movies. But to have it just be like, you know, Matt goes to a fundraiser and gets in an argument with a bunch of oncologists about who has got a more important job, a movie studio head or a cancer doctor is really funny, honestly.

• 40:24Andy Greenwald?

  It is. I mean, and it helps for me. It takes away some of the saccharine notes of the like, what matters to me most are my friends. Let's bring out all, because as much as like, especially in interviews, Rogan is talking about like, a lot of this was inspired by the well-meaning but absolutely handcuffed executives that he's worked with.

• 40:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 40:45Andy Greenwald?

  And I've met many nice people who work in Hollywood. I don't know any of them who would get on stage at CinemaCon and be like, and my junior executive's assistant. I don't talk to you enough.

• 40:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, if they were tripping on mushrooms, would they do that?

• 40:57Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, great, great, great call. It is really, I assume most executives are microdosing at this point, but he was macrodosing, which is a different vibe.

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  I want to shout out a couple of things. Number one is that Seth and Evan probably are our greatest chroniclers of drug binges, up there with McBride.

• 41:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Chris Ryan?

  But when they introduce a bunch of chemicals into any situation, whether it's, what's the, what's the stuff in the boys? V?

• 41:23Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah, sure, V.

• 41:26Chris Ryan?

  Whether it's that kind of drug or whether it is mushrooms and cocaine, they just have a blast and that kind of chemical influence really, I thought that the style that they make the show in really met that, where it wanted to be.

• 41:40Andy Greenwald?

  Met the moment.

• 41:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know, and running through all these suites at Caesar's to document like Zoe Kravitz's ego death and stuff like that was just really great.

• 41:49Andy Greenwald?

  She really bought in.

• 41:51Chris Ryan?

  I thought Dave Franco, honestly, it was like, I laughed so fucking hard. He was so good. And the fact that he kept referencing Now You See Me as like how he was gonna be a card cheat.

• 42:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. Did you, I don't know what your experience was watching it. I don't know if you watched the screeners that Apple weren't kind enough to provide us, but when I fired up.

• 42:09Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry, I watched it. It was just like a regular Joe.

• 42:11Andy Greenwald?

  Joe 50 bucks. That you were just trying to like, you were Thomas Friedman in a cab in Mumbai. You were like, How do the pores watch television as you sit on your mattress full of money? I get it. Um, I watched also like a normal. I fired up the finale on the actual service. And did you watch the recap?

• 42:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, where Franco's doing.

• 42:32Andy Greenwald?

  Franco narrated the recap.

• 42:34Chris Ryan?

  Previously on the studio.

• 42:35Andy Greenwald?

  Fantastic. Yeah, sorry. I cut you off. I thought he was also great.

• 42:38Chris Ryan?

  He was fantastic. Zoe Kravitz was really good and really a good sport and I thought grew into the, uh, over the course of the, well, she was in like three episodes, right?

• 42:47Andy Greenwald?

  She was in.

• 42:47Chris Ryan?

  She's in Golden Globes.

• 42:48Andy Greenwald?

  Eight, nine and 10.

• 42:49Chris Ryan?

  And then she shows up in CinemaCon.

• 42:50Andy Greenwald?

  You know what they call that? She did an arc.

• 42:52Chris Ryan?

  She did, and she was great. I saw a Hollywood Reporter article, interview with her where she was like, I would like seriously love to come back and do that again.

• 43:00Andy Greenwald?

  It seems pretty fun.

• 43:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:01Andy Greenwald?

  Have we talked to our, uh, Ringer colleague Matt Bellini about his experience acting with these people?

• 43:05Chris Ryan?

  I haven't talked to Matt. Matt on-screen cameo multiple times or just the one scene?

• 43:10Andy Greenwald?

  No, multiple times and referred to constantly.

• 43:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:14Andy Greenwald?

  They keep yelling about, don't let Bellini see this.

• 43:16Chris Ryan?

  How did you feel about that?

• 43:18Andy Greenwald?

  Well, should I say that I turned it down?

• 43:22Chris Ryan?

  You can say it. Was it true?

• 43:25Andy Greenwald?

  I, I, I mean, I think that we should have more podcasters and journalists on screen generally. I just think that's a win.

• 43:32Chris Ryan?

  We're a photogenic bunch. I'm so glad we're on YouTube now.

• 43:34Andy Greenwald?

  I'm thrilled about that. No, I thought he, I thought he was pretty good and I especially thought it was remarkable that he maintained during his last appearance, which is when they are trying to weekend at Bernie's. Bryan Cranston through the casino floor and the mania leaching off of those. I mean, it's hard to be in a scene with actors.

• 43:55Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 43:55Andy Greenwald?

  It's hard to be in a scene with actors of that caliber doing something that big. Like with Rogan and Berenhalts and Cranston, who was just dining out. Respect.

• 44:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Andy Greenwald?

  Respect, Matt.

• 44:06Chris Ryan?

  Um, what else did I really like about it? Oh, you know what? The writing? There, there's a part of me that kind of rejects the, it's all improv. Like, let's just try six lines and I'll do one in the script and then five my way. I, I, I've laughed very hard at largely improvised or rewritten comedies in the past, but there was something structurally really sound.

• 44:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Chris Ryan?

  About even though the chaos is happening, like the, what's a, is it a runner? Is that what they call jokes that kind of keep appearing throughout? Chase Suery Wonders' character is like trying to complete her film education. Cause like, you know, she's like, you guys are referring to these things as cinematic classics, but they're just movies that you got out on videotapes when you were young, which is essentially the rewatchables.

• 44:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 44:50Chris Ryan?

  And, uh, but she's like, sort of piecing it together. And she's the one who comes up with the Weekend of Bernie's plot. Like, she's like, I have seen that one.

• 44:58Andy Greenwald?

  I, I think there's a lot more going on behind the scenes in the show that, I mean, I hope we get to talk to people involved in the show because, um, if you notice, I feel like people who listen to this podcast do notice these things. Every writer on the show is credited as a co-creator of the show. That is both generous and rare. Every writer on the season of the show who is a co-creator is credited with writing the finale.

• 45:22Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 45:23Andy Greenwald?

  There is a sharing of credit, which is just nice. It's bring your, it's assistance out on stage at CinemaCon level nice.

• 45:30Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 45:30Andy Greenwald?

  But it also seems to be thoughtful in the sense that.

• 45:33Chris Ryan?

  It's don't gatekeep a Los Angeles boutique from your best friend.

• 45:36Andy Greenwald?

  It's brother, brother, but also brother, brother, sister, brother is what it is and how it should be.

• 45:41Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh. I'm glad we could bring that back. Now it feels more relevant.

• 45:44Andy Greenwald?

  It's called a runner.

• 45:47Andy Greenwald?

  They, uh, no, the, just that like, if you're doing something this high pitched, like have a core group of creative people and have them work on the show and, and keep it consistent. And especially when your other co-creators, one of whom is starring in the show, and both of them are directing every episode. Another thing that I learned, um, that I thought was really fascinating about the show is that the studio was edited by an old, uh, college friend of mine named Eric Kisek, who's done great work. He worked on Veep, he worked on The Good Place.

• 46:17Andy Greenwald?

  Because the nature of the show was so specific and there were so many oners, even within each episode, not just the episode that was a oner.

• 46:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Andy Greenwald?

  Seth and Evan asked Eric to be on set for the entire show so that he could say, I.

• 46:31Chris Ryan?

  I can't do that, actually.

• 46:32Andy Greenwald?

  Here's what I need.

• 46:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Andy Greenwald?

  Here's how I'm going to do it. And that's a thoughtfulness and an inclusion.

• 46:36Chris Ryan?

  It's very cool.

• 46:37Andy Greenwald?

  Doesn't often happen.

• 46:39Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna make a stupid joke about like, that must've been an easy gig for Eric. He's like, cut and cut and I'm done the episode.

• 46:44Andy Greenwald?

  Think, I've not spoken to him about it. I apologize if you're listening, Eric, I, let's text about this, but he, um. Mostly an editor, you know, comes in and is handed the, it's not, it's now all digital, but like theoretically is handed just like a pile of stuff.

• 46:57Chris Ryan?

  It's like a thumb drive.

• 46:58Andy Greenwald?

  And you go play with it.

• 46:59Chris Ryan?

  Born.

• 46:59Andy Greenwald?

  And you piece it all together. One of the benefits of that is, you know, you can keep your own hours and you can work in like, you know, air conditioned piece. Being on set every day for a TV show is a different job.

• 47:12Chris Ryan?

  Sure. I would love to know more about the production of this show, like how quickly they shot it.

• 47:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Chris Ryan?

  Like, you know, obviously they did Cranston for the first episode. Bring him back, but that, I imagine they shot that on stages in LA, but did some exteriors in Vegas and maybe like one or two minutes of.

• 47:29Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know, this casino stuff was casino stuff.

• 47:32Chris Ryan?

  I don't know where they shot it or how they shot it, but I'd be curious to know how long it took. You know, how many takes of various sequences did they do?

• 47:38Andy Greenwald?

  Or how much time they required of the people?

• 47:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right. Exactly. And like, did Cranston come back for like one and then come back later in the season? Or did they just shoot him out like in the beginning or what?

• 47:47Andy Greenwald?

  I think the other thing that again, like you wouldn't give a lot of, you wouldn't necessarily think to give a lot of credit for this, but everyone who has worked in Hollywood for 20 years has relationships.

• 47:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Andy Greenwald?

  But how many people are as able to call in favors, call in friends and create an atmosphere of, of, you know, just collegiality and goodwill that they seem to have been able to create with a really wide variety of celebrities from, you know, from Martin Scorsese to, I don't know, pick your poison.

• 48:16Chris Ryan?

  Nick Stoller.

• 48:16Andy Greenwald?

  Nick, the great Nick Stoller. Exactly.

• 48:18Chris Ryan?

  Who has obviously an amazing sense of humor about himself because he's used as like a getting kicked in the dick like for nine hours.

• 48:26Andy Greenwald?

  Repeatedly. I also, we didn't, because we kind of skipped over it if we're talking about the show in total, the Golden Globes episode was, was the one that was promised. I thought that was so, so funny and so accurate about neediness within the industry. Also a reminder, also for me, it was great to see.

• 48:47Andy Greenwald?

  Because some people who listen to this podcast may know that I was a little mixed on Severance, season two. Adam Scott remains one of my favorite actors and especially comedic actors.

• 48:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I missed him. That episode gave me a little bit of Eastbound vibes.

• 49:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, he's so.

• 49:02Chris Ryan?

  Him showing up with the black card. He's bound.

• 49:04Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, that's. Was he from Tampa? Is that what he claims to be?

• 49:07Chris Ryan?

  He was from the Tampa Rays scout.

• 49:09Andy Greenwald?

  I think they can't say Rays. He just says Tampa.

• 49:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Andy Greenwald?

  Because he is a fake scout offering key bumps and black card access. Go figure. Even the Tampa Bay Rays drew the line somewhere. He was awesome on that. It was a great Berenholz episode.

• 49:22Chris Ryan?

  It was awesome. Berenholz was fantastic the entire season.

• 49:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm very happy that the show is renewed.

• 49:27Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that the second season of it will be like now that people have gotten a chance to see it, like more and more people are going to be like, I want to be on the studio?

• 49:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. One gets the sense that it wasn't really a hard ask. You know, like they were filming the Golden Globe stuff at the Golden Globes, right? They were doing some of the carpet stuff in camera, I think, I mean, in character.

• 49:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:45Andy Greenwald?

  So I feel like they have the relationships already, but I would imagine, yes, more people will want to play themselves and show what good sports they are.

• 49:53Chris Ryan?

  Should we wrap up by talking about Duster?

• 49:56Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 49:56Chris Ryan?

  Briefly.

• 49:57Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 49:57Chris Ryan?

  So I wanted to have more of a general conversation about a quietly ending era of TV than I did about the show itself. People can check this out. It's a show from Latoya Morgan and J.J. Abrams that's on Max. It stars Rachel Hilson and Josh Holloway.

• 50:16Andy Greenwald?

  Look at you off the dome.

• 50:17Chris Ryan?

  I can't believe it. I almost feel like I'm getting stronger as the episode goes on and I want to go back to the beginning and do it again.

• 50:22Andy Greenwald?

  Which is incredible because I was sitting here, I took out my laptop for people not watching because I was like, you know, I'm always, I'm always thinking like you, I'm dressing like you, I'm just really just trying to, what's the word? Be you. And when you were, I was like, if he's really going to just name the actors here, there are a lot of pitfalls because Rachel Hilson is close to both Rachel Bilson and Kerry Hilson, who had some hits in the Noughts.

• 50:44Chris Ryan?

  I was a Kerry Hilson aficionado.

• 50:45Andy Greenwald?

  Were you?

• 50:46Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I was, I was, I found her quite charming.

• 50:50Andy Greenwald?

  Knock You Down is still a great song. Wow, good, look, see? We even shared the same reference points.

• 50:54Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, but like, here's the thing.

• 50:55Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Chris Ryan?

  Is I'm just worried that as I get older, my reliance on devices is making it so that I need a teleprompter to have a conversation with you and I don't want to be, live in that world.

• 51:06Andy Greenwald?

  Is that why you keep looking over my shoulder? God damn it.

• 51:09Chris Ryan?

  No, the log lead from Twin Peaks is behind you.

• 51:12Andy Greenwald?

  That's right. I just, I just thought I saw a certain like deadness in your eyes and you were like, and I'm doing my podcast with my best friend.

• 51:19Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 51:20Andy Greenwald?

  Pause for laughs.

• 51:20Chris Ryan?

  Rachel Hilson plays an FBI agent, a young FBI agent, um, and Josh Holloway plays a, uh, mob affiliated getaway driver who becomes her confidential informant in 1970s Arizona, of all places. This show is got the bones of a network, week to week, kind of adventure of the week, crime of the week, show, but has serialized storytelling. There's a plot line with, uh, Keith David, the wonderful Keith David's crime boss of Phoenix. It is a, uh, period piece that I would not say screams authenticity or, you know, grit of the area.

• 52:01Chris Ryan?

  But I get what it was going for. It's going for like a little bit of like cop solves mystery and a little bit of drive and a little bit of, wouldn't it be fun to get like some grindhousey blaxploitation vibes going? And the reason why I was bringing this show up in the first place is just that we've just did an episode where we talked extensively about HBO, Warner Brothers Discovery going away from Max and going back to HBO Max and possibly doing away with the like, here, there are certain things that are Max shows and there are certain things that are HBO shows. And then there's all the Warner Brothers Discovery reality stuff that we have.

• 52:41Chris Ryan?

  And I have no idea if this is actually the case, and I'm sure we'll be corrected on that matter, but this feels like the last Max show to me. It's, um, it's also feels like a show that is one of the last gasps of extended COVID and strike related development. Now, I can be proven wrong by that, and there have been plenty of, uh, ripple effects that we felt on House of the Dragon and possibly even on Last of Us of shows that are kind of like, we gotta get a season up, but it's not quite where we wanted it to be in terms of the story. I don't know that that's the case for Last of Us, but it was certainly the case for House of the Dragon. It was economic as well. The show is like, fine, but is not something I'm gonna probably keep watching.

• 53:23Chris Ryan?

  But it's just an interesting, like, kinda neither here nor there experiment.

• 53:27Andy Greenwald?

  I couldn't agree more. It's an analogy I think I've used before, but it's like when people tell you, "See that light you're seeing from the stars? That light is hundreds of thousands of years old."

• 53:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah!

• 53:36Andy Greenwald?

  That's what this show feels like. And it is borne out by those of us who are still laptop-bound. I can give you some facts and figures here. The show was given a straight-to-series order at HBO Max when it was called HBO Max the first time, in April of 2020.

• 53:50Chris Ryan?

  I think I remember mentioning it on the pod.

• 53:52Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, like, how cool.

• 53:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Andy Greenwald?

  And it was notable also because it was, and I know this sounds crazy to say it, J.J. Abrams hadn't had shows on TV, and still doesn't.

• 54:02Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 54:02Andy Greenwald?

  And had this enormous deal, which has now been kind of like politely downgraded to a first-look deal.

• 54:08Chris Ryan?

  But it's also used as like the, uh, the sort of example of like the excess and largesse of that late teens.

• 54:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 54:16Chris Ryan?

  Overall madness that happens.

• 54:18Andy Greenwald?

  And so just getting something from the Bad Robot Factory, like, on the air, that was considered both, it was a win for everyone, like, including internally within this company that was now trying to pump up its streaming service in a different way.

• 54:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:30Andy Greenwald?

  I think what's, I mean, there's a lot of things that feel kind of vestigial and odd about the show. One of the biggest problems to me, actually, is the J.J. Abrams of it, which is no disrespect to him. It's more that it feels incredibly polite.

• 54:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Andy Greenwald?

  For a show, and this is maybe what you meant, maybe you said it more articulately, or at least more kindly, when you said it was felt sort of broadcast-networky, because...

• 54:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that almost would work better as a CBS show.

• 54:58Andy Greenwald?

  The pleasures of Pulp Fiction, quite literally, you know, are kind of sanded away here with, you know, in the visage of Josh Holloway's, like, perfectly bright white teeth, and the kind of like, wink, wink, "We don't have many people who look like you around here, Agent whatever her name is, you know, but like, we're not actually talking about anything. We're all just sort of having a good time." And the kind of quotes around everything.

• 55:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's like, trying to be a good dad while he's a getaway driver for the mob.

• 55:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and the kind of polite quotes around everything definitely put me at a distance. And then there's just other things that feel like older decision-making. And I mean that quite literally, because the Jim character played by Josh Holloway is supposed to be a Vietnam vet, but Josh Holloway is 55.

• 55:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:41Andy Greenwald?

  In 1972.

• 55:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:43Andy Greenwald?

  And... Look, Sawyer's gonna Sawyer. Like, I am a big fan. He's got great hair. He's very handsome.

• 55:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 55:49Andy Greenwald?

  And you kind of trust him with your-

• 55:50Chris Ryan?

  He definitely drives the car. He does a good job.

• 55:53Andy Greenwald?

  But you are kind of shooting yourself in the foot for getting a series off on the right first step by casting someone who just kind of breaks the show.

• 56:03Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:04Andy Greenwald?

  Like, you make the show because of him, but then that decision kind of has ripple effects that cost you other things down the line. Now, it was still a J.J. Abrams HBO Max thing, and the Corbin Burnson essence continues. He's awesome in the show. Speaking of broadcast favorites, Gale O'Grady shows up.

• 56:19Chris Ryan?

  Interesting, yeah.

• 56:21Andy Greenwald?

  J.J.'s guy, Greg Grunberg, gonna be in the show. The pieces make sense in a very 2019, here's my, here's my big flashing green light button kind of way. The bummer is, five years later, I mean, it is a, that is a wild amount of time for, for development.

• 56:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:40Andy Greenwald?

  It's not unheard of.

• 56:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:41Andy Greenwald?

  And yes, it was COVID-affected and strike-affected, and then industry-rattling-affected. But the, the bottom line is, when this arrives, I think that we, especially us, who loves this type of thing, really would have been open to something just kind of grungy and fun. And it just feels too labored to be light. And that, even though I like all the ingredients, the final dish feels overworked.

• 57:05Chris Ryan?

  Well, this goes back to what we were talking about with Mulaney. That's what, this is kind of one of the reasons why I wanted to pair these two things, is this is a show that I bet, even if I stuck with it this first season, might find its rhythm.

• 57:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, right.

• 57:17Chris Ryan?

  I mean, there is an almost internal metronome of forward momentum that's being begged to take it out. They're begging to take it out on the road and open it up.

• 57:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 57:26Chris Ryan?

  Which is, you could do a show, and I hate doing this where you're like, what they should have done is this, but you could do a show where Josh Holloway, getaway driver in the 1970s, goes from town to town- Because he's got some mission he's on, but he's also always on the run. Uh, and he offers his services to various underworlds around the American Southwest as he's being chased by the FBI.

• 57:51Andy Greenwald?

  So cool. I love it.

• 57:53Chris Ryan?

  Just, and you could just basically have it be Kung Fu and he's wandering the earth. Uh, there's like a little bit more of a contained setting for this one. I, maybe in future episodes, he goes all, he goes to Boise. I have no idea, but.

• 58:03Andy Greenwald?

  Well, it's whatever Albuquerque can double for.

• 58:06Chris Ryan?

  Um, so this is what I was gonna say is they're almost, it's a show crying out for an older era of TV production and an older era of TV delivery. It just feels like an on the road show that's stuck in one place and is instead trying to build like a rogues gallery full of recurring characters who are in that town. Um, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is something that would have found its legs in a season two. Or would have found its legs over there, like a tweak of introducing something a little bit later. It's, instead, it just feels like it was kind of taken off the shelf a little bit.

• 58:41Andy Greenwald?

  It's a, it's a very smart analysis and I think, and I think it's a generous one because there are many, many, many problems with the industry right now that we belabor week to week.

• 58:51Andy Greenwald?

  That said, there is a different level of rigor being applied to the decision-making and sometimes a lot of good things are just not, you know, are getting snuffed out because of budgetary concerns or whatever. The, the decision-making that gets shows greenlit today, I feel confident saying would not have greenlit this show at this level with this cast on this service.

• 59:13Chris Ryan?

  Well, I want to ask you another question here. This is like the last thing I wanted to ask you about because you've casually mentioned it a few times about the current state of development, pitching and stuff like that. Are people done with period pieces?

• 59:24Andy Greenwald?

  Well, period pieces are incredibly hard because they're just automatically more expensive.

• 59:29Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 59:29Andy Greenwald?

  So people, you, you, you might not get in the door with a period piece.

• 59:34Chris Ryan?

  Right. Cause any shot that you have, the cars have to be.

• 59:37Andy Greenwald?

  Picture cars have to be dressed and the whole place has to be dressed and everything is more expensive. I think that there is, at least anecdotally, people say that that's also a barrier for entry for some people. Some, some audiences or some segments just don't want to time travel, which is weird because I would go to literally any other time in history than the one we're living in. For every certainty that people say about what the town is buying, there is an outlier.

• 1:00:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Andy Greenwald?

  So you can't actually confidently say this will not happen. Some things do happen. Often they are unicorns, or they are unicorns being ridden by very successful established creators.

• 1:00:12Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:00:13Andy Greenwald?

  But to your question, yes, period pieces are very, very hard to do, even when, you know, they are done at a, what they say, at a price point, which sometimes means in Albuquerque.

• 1:00:24Chris Ryan?

  The thing I was thinking about was, you know, when we were in college, the 70s were very

• 1:00:30Andy Greenwald?

  Speaking of a period piece.

• 1:00:31Chris Ryan?

  Well, here's my point. When we were in college, the 70s were in vogue, you know, Dazed and Confused, like the way that Tarantino kind of had, his like roots in 70s grindhouse cinema. And now it's 2025. Obviously, Duster is not one of dozens of shows set in the 70s on TV, but I almost think you should probably say, hey, man, like, should this be, and I'm thinking of this because Fantasy just beautifully articulated this genre to me when we were doing our Final Destination podcast, but Final Destination is a product of, I believe he called shitcore, limp biscuit, dead tech, or something like that. But like, maybe that's

• 1:01:13Chris Ryan?

  the period we should be going back to, because that's 25 years ago, which is what in the 70s

• 1:01:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 1:01:19Chris Ryan?

  it was in the 90s.

• 1:01:20Andy Greenwald?

  Sean lost me when he sipped tea and said Top Gun was bad, actually.

• 1:01:24Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm back. Sean, you got me back. I totally agree. This is a bigger and deeper conversation also about certain generations' stranglehold on culture, let alone political life.

• 1:01:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:36Andy Greenwald?

  That like, the culture is still absolutely in a chokehold by people who are

• 1:01:42Chris Ryan?

  People always ask me what I'm gonna do after The Ringer.

• 1:01:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Chris Ryan?

  And I think like, I'm prime Congress age when I, you know?

• 1:01:47Andy Greenwald?

  Except, our generation doesn't get to do stuff. It's boomers, and then maybe millennials will save us, but we're out. I'm prime Congress age. That's so sick. But the culture is still in a chokehold of people a little bit older than us, you know, who And that's that whole generation of like legacy sequels where it's just like, we're gonna make things feel like Amblin movies from the 80s because we love them.

• 1:02:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Andy Greenwald?

  But we're not gonna advance them because we're arrested people still in our childhood who don't take our toys out of our boxes.

• 1:02:16Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:02:18Andy Greenwald?

  Let's move the Overton cultural window up a little bit. It is hard for people like us to say it.

• 1:02:23Chris Ryan?

  Let's have a bunch of kids riding bicycles, listening to Disturbed.

• 1:02:27Andy Greenwald?

  There you go. What could be better? No, they'd be riding Razor scooters. Listening to Disturbed. So sick.

• 1:02:33Chris Ryan?

  Listening to the first iPod.

• 1:02:34Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, a little shoe leather reporting.

• 1:02:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Andy Greenwald?

  12 year old daughter thinks the 90s are cool. She say what she said to me today? She was like, all the good movies came out in the 90s.

• 1:02:44Chris Ryan?

  Like what?

• 1:02:45Andy Greenwald?

  Clueless and Titanic.

• 1:02:48Andy Greenwald?

  And I was like, I had no comeback. I was like, you know, Uncle Chris does a whole podcast about movies from the 90s, basically. Uh, no.

• 1:02:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh, with that.

• 1:02:57Andy Greenwald?

  Can I just do one last Duster thing?

• 1:02:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, of course. Do whatever you want.

• 1:03:01Andy Greenwald?

  I just, I just, one more plea. I don't even know where it's streaming, but, but the one season wonder quarry is still the best version of post, yet not more.

• 1:03:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Andy Greenwald?

  Pulp that I've seen. Like, and it's crazy to me. I, it's not crazy to me if the show is underseen. It was a Max or Cinemax original.

• 1:03:18Chris Ryan?

  On streaming anywhere?

• 1:03:18Andy Greenwald?

  I, I.

• 1:03:19Chris Ryan?

  You got your laptop right there. I can vamp.

• 1:03:22Andy Greenwald?

  Do you want me to Google at the end of this podcast?

• 1:03:24Chris Ryan?

  I want people to have like a service relationship with our pod.

• 1:03:26Andy Greenwald?

  Available on.

• 1:03:28Chris Ryan?

  Peacock?

• 1:03:29Andy Greenwald?

  Amazon? We'll have to buy it. I mean, it's just crazy. You want me to buy it right now on air? That would be riveting. I, I don't know.

• 1:03:35Chris Ryan?

  I don't want you to buy it. I just want to know if it's out.

• 1:03:37Andy Greenwald?

  Tell you my, I'll tell you after the podcast. Our listeners are active.

• 1:03:40Chris Ryan?

  I don't care.

• 1:03:41Andy Greenwald?

  I just wanted to make a case for it. You're so servicey.

• 1:03:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:03:46Andy Greenwald?

  Berkshire Hathaway, Hathaway podcasting.

• 1:03:49Chris Ryan?

  People make an investment in this podcast. They expect a return.

• 1:03:53Andy Greenwald?

  See, that's, that's your investment strategy, not mine. I just like to vamp until I run out of money.

• 1:03:59Andy Greenwald?

  Just that, it's crazy to me that, that Michael Fuller and his colleagues and coworkers, and Greg Yatanes, who directed on Your Friends and Neighbors, was the director on it, made a show that did it, like really captured a certain type of fiction that we like and a certain kind of hazy vibe, and no one else has been able to do it.

• 1:04:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Andy Greenwald?

  And clearly, there is interest in it still. And that's a bummer. It's a great show.

• 1:04:21Chris Ryan?

  I have one more thing to tell you.

• 1:04:23Andy Greenwald?

  Wherever you may be able to watch it. I don't know.

• 1:04:25Chris Ryan?

  Um, before we go.

• 1:04:26Andy Greenwald?

  Uh huh.

• 1:04:26Chris Ryan?

  I have an assignment for you. Now, we're gonna be back on Tuesday again. I know people are probably like, "What's up with you guys?"

• 1:04:32Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Chris Ryan?

  "You're my Monday. You're getting my week started, right?"

• 1:04:35Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, it's a federal holiday.

• 1:04:36Chris Ryan?

  Okay, but like, we're also doing it because we're gonna try and go see, we're definitely gonna go see the final reckoning, Mission Impossible.

• 1:04:41Andy Greenwald?

  So excited.

• 1:04:41Chris Ryan?

  We're gonna talk about that. We'll talk about the season finale of Last of Us.

• 1:04:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Chris Ryan?

  I do have one thing I'd like to ask of you.

• 1:04:45Andy Greenwald?

  Is it what to wear?

• 1:04:46Chris Ryan?

  No. I know that you've been behind on a couple of our favorite reality-based television. I know you're behind on Top Chef.

• 1:04:54Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Chris Ryan?

  It's okay. We haven't talked about it that much. I do think it got more interesting. I don't know if I would say it's my favorite season by any stretch, but it's interesting what's been going on on that show.

• 1:05:04Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 1:05:05Chris Ryan?

  I have to ask you to do something for me. It doesn't even matter if you watch the first two. You have to watch the third episode of Hundred Foot Wave, season three.

• 1:05:12Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, gosh, I haven't even, yeah.

• 1:05:14Chris Ryan?

  Just set it up for you. So the first two episodes are still Nazaree stuff and Garrett stuff. The third episode, you're like, "Okay, maybe Nazaree, we've cooked it." You know what I mean?

• 1:05:23Andy Greenwald?

  We've done enough.

• 1:05:24Chris Ryan?

  Like, we've got it. Honestly, every time you're watching the Nazaree stuff, you're like, "There seems like there's like a thousand people in the water."

• 1:05:29Andy Greenwald?

  Every time.

• 1:05:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and like, between, just because like, it's become such a destination. Third one starts, I'm like, "All right, there's a couple of like, plotlines that we've got going here. Garrett's had some head injuries."

• 1:05:40Andy Greenwald?

  Oh no.

• 1:05:40Chris Ryan?

  And it's like, is he gonna be okay, or is he gonna, you know, be able to stay out of the water?

• 1:05:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Chris Ryan?

  And the episode is called, I believe it's called The Wall of Cortez.

• 1:05:49Andy Greenwald?

  Wasn't the third episode-

• 1:05:49Chris Ryan?

  Or no, The Cortez Bank.

• 1:05:50Andy Greenwald?

  The third episode last season was insane, too. That's sort of their sweet spot.

• 1:05:54Chris Ryan?

  Do you know anything about what the Cortez Bank is?

• 1:05:56Andy Greenwald?

  Of course not. Is that where you keep your money?

• 1:05:58Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:06:01Andy Greenwald?

  Are you finally giving the tips?

• 1:06:03Chris Ryan?

  There is apparently off the coast of California, a submerged island in the middle of the Pacific.

• 1:06:09Andy Greenwald?

  So sick.

• 1:06:10Chris Ryan?

  And like fucking hu- like long way from land. Like land is nowhere near.

• 1:06:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:16Chris Ryan?

  But there's just like mad waves because this submerged island.

• 1:06:21Andy Greenwald?

  This is crazy.

• 1:06:21Chris Ryan?

  And they go there.

• 1:06:22Andy Greenwald?

  Oh shit.

• 1:06:23Chris Ryan?

  And it's like surfing on the moon because like you don't see the earth anywhere else.

• 1:06:27Andy Greenwald?

  How do you, how do you, you start?

• 1:06:29Chris Ryan?

  You gotta watch.

• 1:06:30Andy Greenwald?

  How do you, how do you begin your journey?

• 1:06:32Chris Ryan?

  By ship, but you must watch. You must watch it. It's awesome.

• 1:06:36Andy Greenwald?

  Wow. This is, this is also giving me like Wakanda forever vibes. Like Namor comes out and he's just like, you must not surf here. My name means no love. Do you remember that? Like there's certain things about the MCU that people are just gonna be like, we didn't. I don't know if we really did that or not.

• 1:06:51Chris Ryan?

  I kinda don't wanna stop podcasting. Honestly, I think that I was really nervous about the first 10 minutes without the reference point and I didn't expect the brother, brother bit to go on that long, but now I feel good.

• 1:07:03Andy Greenwald?

  I think this is a turning point for us. I feel like you have been shackled to some sort of, you know, plan, some kind of schedule.

• 1:07:11Chris Ryan?

  Also, now I can just be more like, less afraid to just be like, I don't know. I'm not looking at this information and I just don't know the answer to your question.

• 1:07:18Andy Greenwald?

  You're like a young Charlie Parker. You just invented Bebop.

• 1:07:21Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Kaya and John for producing as always. We'll be back on Tuesday with a little bit of Ethan Hunt, a little bit of Ellie and Dina probably.

• 1:07:28Andy Greenwald?

  We gotta trust them all one last time.

• 1:07:30Chris Ryan?

  And maybe Andy will go to the Cortez Bank.

• 1:07:33Andy Greenwald?

  I am.

• 1:07:34Chris Ryan?

  Take a little deposit.

• 1:07:35Andy Greenwald?

  Just doggy paddle out there. Can I make it?

• 1:07:36Chris Ryan?

  See you guys.

• 1:07:46Speaker 06

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