Rita Ora: "It's all about what your body needs!" Body confidence starts with self-care

The size zero trend... the circle of shame... the fad diets... Millennial women who grew up during the 2000s now have the lowest body confidence of any generation, and Rita Ora understands the pressure for women to look a certain way all too well. In this chat, brought to you by Dove, Fearne and Rita explore the factors that might have influenced their relationships with their bodies over time – from magazines, to catwalks, to so-called health hacks. As part of Dove’s Self Esteem Project, Fearne and Rita chat about how to focus more on how your body feels, than how it looks. Millennial women are 1.3x more likely to define self-care as working on their appearance, so, how can we create self-care routines that really listen to what our individual bodies need to be strong and energised instead? Rita also opens up about how she manages the anxiety that comes from her internal chatter. If you want more support, Dove has created a journal full of body confidence exercises to help in building better awareness about our internalized beauty belief systems that might be more harmful to you than helpful. You can find it at dove.com/why2k http://dove.com/why2k. Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me Fern Cotton. This is the show that looks to raise your self-esteem and body confidence. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Dove and we're going to be getting into the incredibly important topic of body confidence because let's be honest, how we feel about our bodies affects everything, our energy, our self-respect, our relationships, our work, even when and how we engage and socialise with our kids and friends. So Happy Place is teaming up with Dove's Self Esteem Project to help us all reconnect with our bodies in a way that's kind, accepting, respectful and real. Today, I'm chatting to Rita Ora.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Think for me, the idea of looking a certain way in my late twenties, that's when it started to hit me because my stamina was low, I wasn't looking after my body, I was getting sick a lot and I didn't feel like my body was hot and I didn't accept the idea of like, okay, well, I'm not as thin as these other people and so I'm ugly. And that's really sad to think back on because I know I wasn't. It's like what you do when you're attacking your younger self, like in therapy and you're like, that girl was still really beautiful and I felt like I didn't appreciate her.

• 1:40Fearne Cotton?

  I wonder if you've ever felt the way Rita says she did. I know I certainly have. I mean, if you grew up in the early 2000s like I did, you'll remember the intense pressure to look a certain way, the circle of shame in magazines, the endless diet fads and that truly awful phrase, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. I mean, listen, I definitely bought into some of those mad trends and of course it impacted how I saw myself. I guess I found it extra hard because not only was I imbibing that sort of content, but often my own body was scrutinised and put in magazines. And I think I put way too much attention on what my body looked like rather than what it felt like.

• 2:24Fearne Cotton?

  And, you know, that led to disordered eating and definitely a lack of confidence. And something that I've worked really hard to rectify since those days. And the petrifying thing is, guys, the noughties are back in a big way. And listen, I'm actually quite enjoying watching young women embrace low slung jeans and those teeny little sunglasses as vintage and nostalgic. But let me tell you, I'm not nostalgic for the days of intense body scrutiny. And I don't want us, you and me, to have our confidence zapped even more. Millennial women who grew up during that time now have the lowest body confidence of any generation. We're 1.6 times more likely to consider potentially harmful and expensive cosmetic procedures to change how we look.

• 3:08Fearne Cotton?

  So this conversation really matters deeply to me. So before we get into today's chat, I want us to take a little moment, have a pause and think about this. What do you do to take care of yourself? Physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, it can be anything. I'll leave that with you and we'll come back to it later. For brilliantly accomplished Rita, building body confidence means listening to her body, eating whole foods, moving regularly and prioritising sleep. Not so that she looks a certain way, but so that she feels she has the strength and stamina to achieve her goals. Massive goals, by the way, what a woman. We talk in this chat about how she looks for ways to appreciate her body for what it allows her to do.

• 3:48Fearne Cotton?

  Those energetic performances of hers, for one, because she understands the cost of trying to constantly chase and achieve society's ever-changing beauty ideals. Oh my gosh, I loved catching up with Rita so much. We talked about her new music and the incredible freedom of really dancing your socks off at a gig. That is such a good way of feeling connected to your body, letting yourself feel all that unadulterated euphoria in your bones. We talked about how she manages the anxiety that comes from her internal chatter. And she tells the brilliant story of how she and her husband got together.

• 4:45Fearne Cotton?

  How the hell are you? I mean, I haven't seen you for, I couldn't tell you when I last saw you.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  I know, I was thinking in the car and I was like, well, first off, I do love your podcast. I think you're a very good place. It's such a lovely, positive, cosy podcast, which is where I'm at at the moment. I like listening to cosy things. I like waking up and being in a good headspace and listening to inspiring or just funny chats or good music.

• 5:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, same.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  But I'm happy to be here.

• 5:11Fearne Cotton?

  So you're in a good cosy place?

• 5:12Speaker 02

  I am, full of adrenaline and anxiety because I'm releasing new music and it's definitely the same feeling I had when I put out my first single back in 2012.

• 5:22Fearne Cotton?

  Really? Why is that, do you think?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I think it's just, you always want it to be good. You always just want it to feel positive and everyone love it. And it's that whole thing of, I guess, like, you can't control it and you've worked so hard on something and you put it out in the world and it's just like, that's all you can do.

• 5:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  I don't know, that feeling never went away. But I like it. It keeps me alive, though.

• 5:49Fearne Cotton?

  No one wants to feel complacent, especially when it's to do with a career they love. I think, you know, we're both very lucky that we love what we do. So I think if it's any form of complacency, that's not a great feeling. But I was watching a couple of BTS videos on your Instagram the other day.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, my vlogs.

• 6:05Fearne Cotton?

  Your vlogs.

• 6:05Speaker 02

  I do love a good vlog now.

• 6:06Fearne Cotton?

  You do? And they're very entertaining. They're very entertaining. But on one of them, I was really, I mean, I don't know why I'm surprised because I feel the same about a lot of the things I do. But you were, you were saying to your team, how do I get these nerves to go? I want them to go. Like, I don't like this. You were about to do a big show. I think it was with Kylie.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:22Fearne Cotton?

  And you were like, how do I get rid of this feeling? Is that something that's always been there, that you have this surge of nerves before you go on?

• 6:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just comes to me. It's almost like a rush of... A wave of something. It usually comes when, I mean, listen, I'm very well prepared. I'm actually overprepared sometimes. I do a lot of rehearsal, like I definitely walk into the situation with like a full plan. But you just can't beat the thoughts. And I think that's kind of always been my thing. It's just this sort of voice in your head that is like, okay, but make sure you do it. Make sure you do a good job. Okay, but have you done da da da da? Like, there's that constant conversation that I've always had.

• 7:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  And, you know, I think that it just is what it is. I live with it now, but I breathe through it. And like I try and do a lot of physical, like, I think you saw it in the, in the diary, actually. I just do these like things where I bend over and I'm like, it's like a wash of air. And then you get back up. And so physically doing things like that gets me out of the.

• 7:23Fearne Cotton?

  I shake my hands above my head.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  This is good.

• 7:26Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know what this is, but this gets everything. I look like an absolute dickhead.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's one thing that we have to learn to be okay to look like.

• 7:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Dickheads at times.

• 7:37Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, having kids makes you really realise that you don't have a dickhead the whole time.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  I can imagine.

• 7:41Fearne Cotton?

  I was singing on the school run this morning and my son went, cringe.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Cringe on the song Choice or just cringing singing?

• 7:50Fearne Cotton?

  Could have been any song, just cringey.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 7:53Fearne Cotton?

  But I think, you know, you do have to move nerves on physically. It's not, you know, you have the voice in your head, but it sits in your body and it's not a nice feeling.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  I don't know how to even talk about it. And it's probably going to be a surprise to some people that listen to this and think from the outside, wow, you've got so much. You should be so happy and so grateful. But it's not a sense of not being grateful. It's definitely just a sense of still wanting to deliver the right level of greatness that I think I want to deliver and that I know I can achieve. But those limits have never gone. Like, I've always had this like limitless idea of life. And so that's the reality. And it's like, well, why can't I do these things and feel the sense of accomplishment? And have that level of like. You know, identity and greatness, it definitely is something I've always believed in, in myself, that I can achieve.

• 8:46Fearne Cotton?

  And is it sort of striving for perfection? What would you call it?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  No, I've never had a sense of perfection. I've never been perfect. Grow, I've been now in the public eye probably over twelve years, like over a decade. And so, you know, everyone has, I think, seen me grow up a little bit in the sense of like how I speak, what I, how I dress, the mistakes I've made. And I just feel as if I've always been an open book. And that, I think, has made my fans and I really close.

• 9:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's a good thing.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  It is. And in the moment when you're like, oh damn it, I shouldn't have done these things. It really just brings you closer to people, knowing that you're human.

• 9:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  And I think that connection I have with my fans, believe it or not, even when I was coming out in twenty twelve, we didn't have Instagram, there was just Twitter, there still wasn't like Spotify and things. And so there was that sense of pure connection. And I think it's sort of paid off now because I will have built that then. So my fans have grown up with me. I think we still have that like real genuine like.

• 9:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love that you're so open and that we get to see. I've, I don't think I've ever seen you on a show or, you know, like if, whether it's a TV show or when you're performing and thought, oh, she's putting on a facade and it's, you know, it's a whole kind of fake thing. So we all think her life's perfect. I don't think I've ever got that vibe from you. You're just, what you see is what you get. And that's a good thing. But like you say, that means then that whether it's good, bad or ugly, it's out there.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  It's everything.

• 10:18Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like I've had pretty similar journey in, in some respects. And it's painful, it's hard when you either mess up or something goes wrong or, you know, whatever it is, or people are bitching about you in the press. You know, it's a horrible feeling.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's just also. I just try and find a sense of reality with my family and friends and people that I love.

• 10:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  To sort of really, I actually do think I have two lives. That's like how I view it. It's like, I have my work life, which is my baby. And definitely something I'm so passionate about creatively, cause it really keeps my juices flowing. Like being an artist is like, I wake up and I get excited. I still get excited about music and books and. You know, now film and being married to a filmmaker, like I, he, he really opened my mind up and still does. To films and books and things that I would never watch, like anime and comic books and things I definitely. Love watching now. And I was like, wow, I don't think I would ever have seen this if it wasn't for Tyka and things like that. Yeah, no, that keeps my artistic fluids going. But then I get home.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Or I get around friends and I just don't talk about it. I don't talk about my job. I don't talk about my like things outside of. Uh, you know, that have to do with work. And that's, I think, really saved me a lot.

• 11:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think you have to sort of compartmentalize things. Otherwise you go mad if you just live in that. Sphere constantly. It's so intense. It's so full of scrutiny. I think you do need that grounding and just to be.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  And it's routine. I find that having a normal routine. Is also something that people shouldn't be surprised about. Like, I like to take the train, you know, when I'm home. I definitely don't like driving. I prefer taking public transport, gets me places quicker. I walk to the shops. I go and get a coffee with my mum in the cafe around the corner. I mean, I did that yesterday when I got in. From Frankfurt, I had a concert and I got in at like three o'clock and I said, shall we just walk around? We live in, uh, she's in Queens Park. And we just went and got a coffee in Bobby's, which is like my favorite coffee shop there. And I see Louis through there all the time, actually.

• 12:34Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Louis.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  And I'm always like, hi Louis. And he's walking up and down as well. And those little things.

• 12:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, just normal stuff.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Are just so important.

• 12:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  And priceless.

• 12:45Fearne Cotton?

  They really are.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 12:47Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you have always seemed to me, again, you know, I only know you to a level, but you always see, seem to be extremely resilient, someone that will bounce back from everything.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  I take pride in that. Thank you so much.

• 13:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think it's amazing.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 13:02Fearne Cotton?

  Where do you think that comes from?

• 13:03Speaker 02

  I guess I just, um, my parents.

• 13:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  They're very resilient people. They've bounced back from real things like cancer and being financially really unstable at certain points of us growing up and keeping that out of our world. Like just parenting, I feel like I have so much respect for. I'm not a parent yet. Um, but I'm a step mum and I've decided that like, whoa, next level respect. It's for you guys, you know, you as a mum and it really is no joke.

• 13:35Fearne Cotton?

  Step parenting's no joke as well. It's, it's really complicated. It's a beautiful, beautiful dynamic, but it's not simple.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  No, I just see myself as a fairy godmother. Like, you know, I'm the one that gives them chocolate and I'm the one that doesn't have to worry about the sugar levels.

• 13:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, you can just go, here you go, bye.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  And I will buy your love and I'm okay with being okay with that until they love me. You will love me.

• 13:58Fearne Cotton?

  It's hilarious.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Um, but no, it's not about buying, but you know, I'll do those things that, you know, that the parents can't do. Cause I know that they have to worry about getting them to sleep at a certain time, whereas I've just given them a milkshake and I'm like.

• 14:11Fearne Cotton?

  But it is such a lovely, I mean, we've talked a bit about step parenting on the podcast. We've had, like Kate Ferdinand's been on and we've talked about it, a few other guests who I can't think of right now. But it's a really, it seems like a niche topic when it shouldn't be, because there's so many blended families out there now. We know that.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  I've actually noticed that a lot now, being a step mum, yeah.

• 14:29Fearne Cotton?

  But it's not talked about anywhere near enough, uh, in, you know, certainly in comparison to parenting. And many of us are, or have been for many years, trying to navigate step parenting and work out our own rules and how it works. Do you think you've taken to it naturally?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I don't know. I actually don't know. I just definitely didn't do the research.

• 14:48Fearne Cotton?

  No, I didn't.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  I don't know if you know that you need to.

• 14:51Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  And I feel like you just sort of get lumped in a scenario, you know, usually inspired by love, obviously. And you're like, okay, well, I'll do anything to make this work because I love this person. And then you end up genuinely loving the family that you're in. Usually, I mean, I'm I'm very lucky. I've been in a great position and I have really cool stepkids. They're so fun. But I just wanted it to be easy.

• 15:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  You know, and that's kind of the approach I took. And it is different for everyone.

• 15:23Fearne Cotton?

  It is.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  And I'm very lucky.

• 15:25Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  I was very lucky. I'm still very lucky, yeah.

• 15:28Fearne Cotton?

  I feel the same. I love my stepkids so much. They're amazing.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  And they're getting like, the teenage years is really fun because I'm also like in that point where I'm like, so tell me what's going on.

• 15:38Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, give me the goss.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Trying to get a goss, but I feel like they think that that's what old people do. I don't know if they think that that's what.

• 15:44Fearne Cotton?

  Do you just call yourself an old person?

• 15:46Speaker 02

  I think to them.

• 15:46Fearne Cotton?

  Lol.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:49Fearne Cotton?

  Hilarious.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  I think to them, obviously I am, because I'm like, all right, so what's the goss? Like, where's? You know, what's the boyfriend chat? And they're looking at me like, what?

• 15:57Fearne Cotton?

  I know, we are out of the loop.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  Is that like an old thing to ask? I don't know.

• 16:00Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it probably is. I I still think I'm eighteen. I mean, I'm.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 16:04Fearne Cotton?

  Turning forty-four soon, like, fucking out. I still think I'm eighteen.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  You're young, that's a lot.

• 16:09Fearne Cotton?

  No, and I and I don't know the lingo and I don't know what's appropriate, but.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Boyf- like boyfriend? Do we still say that?

• 16:15Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know, you're going out, like, what's the, what's the lingo? What is it? We need to get up on this, Rita. I thought you were young and cool and I was gonna learn from you. Clearly no.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  I just love the music, like, the young, I like, I like, listen to music, like, insane amount of time of my day, like, is in car rides. I always do research.

• 16:29Fearne Cotton?

  So you're connecting through that, because you can tip them off as to what's good.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, they get surprised when I know, like, M K G and like, all these sort of like, young, more underground. He's amazing. I think I'm saying his name right?

• 16:41Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, good.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  See, there I am, getting old but feeling young. But I don't know, but like, I listen to a lot of music. I think that's the way I stay.

• 16:48Fearne Cotton?

  That's the way to stay connected. I mean, if we go back to sort of parenting, clearly you will have by osmosis picked up some tips from your own parents, even with your step-parenting now, because you're doing it intuitively. It's not something like you say you've researched or you're. Really thinking too much about you're just doing it. And again, if we go back to the wonderful Louis Theroux, I loved your Louis Theroux documentary with him. And we saw you all having dinner together as a family, which was so lovely. And learning about, you know, your parents were Kosov and refugees. They they came here with very little, had to start all over, not really knowing anyone, which is so, so intense for a couple with a young family to deal with.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  They were young too.

• 17:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure a lot of your resilience is kind of just in you because of that. You've just imbibed it from seeing it.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's kind of why I've I notice it in other women more than I, I think, I guess people even pay attention to it. I feel like, actually, I know more women, I think, in my life that are resilient than men, to be fair. That's just the way I've been raised. I have a lot of women in my life that are so resilient. Not that the men in my life aren't, but I have more women in my life. And I loved that. I loved the jokes that they made, the sort of empowering, coffee breaks that all these wives and my mum's friends would have together and, you know, talking about things that they do and like laughing about it and almost feeling like, how could you not do seventeen things at the same time?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  Like, that was just how the women around me were. And with extra strong coffee too, like, we just had this conversation this morning, like, I'm talking like Turkish thick coffee.

• 18:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  And they would have like seventeen of them. And I'm just like, these women are, like, that was sort of how I grew up and some were smoking. And it was like smoke in the air and coffee going. I guess it's just that Eastern European environment. But yeah, I think my idols were that, you know, and I see that now in women like Jennifer Lopez and, you know, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. And, you know, I love that there's this ageless. Identity at the moment and I find that so exciting and it feels like there is a real shift in music. That there's no age, that you can be great and I love that.

• 19:17Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm, me too.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  You know, Gaga's, what, thirty eight? I don't know, sorry, I don't know how old she is, but like she's killing it and it's really cool.

• 19:26Fearne Cotton?

  Abracadabra, such a tune. I'm still determined that I'm gonna learn the dance routine to that. Like, I know four seconds of it.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  It's cool and I mean, it's so, she went back into her like dark, really cool pop love and that's how I fell in love with her. That's a bit like what I wanted to do with my new music, like I, coming out twenty twelve, hot right now in the sun, like feeling like I was in a rave, like I missed. That energy and so I was like, that's what we're gonna do with this music, with this new record.

• 19:54Fearne Cotton?

  What do your parents think of your music? Like, would you play them your album before anyone else?

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're old school though. They're like, when are you gonna sing a ballad?

• 20:04Fearne Cotton?

  So good.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  When are you gonna sing something that shows off your voice?

• 20:07Fearne Cotton?

  Like I am.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  And I love that and I do that, but it's true, my music, some of it is very sort of pop and more. Character, like I try and find a character and a persona in all my songs and some of them are more like talky sexy and like heat sex on sight. Which is like the start of the single, my new single, it's not singy and then my mum's like, oh. My Heart Will Go On was such a good song. I was like, you know, I do miss those types of songs.

• 20:34Fearne Cotton?

  Sliding.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, but I do, I miss those timeless moments, but it's different, music has just changed.

• 20:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and you can't really put that out right now, do you know what I mean? It's like, we need big dance bangers, that's what's happening in the music sphere.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Well, you can, I'm just not that artist. I love going out, I love being able to give people a sense of like. Freedom and joy and dancing and if you've ever been to one of my shows, like it's a lot of dancing and letting the music take you and. You know, my choreography isn't so in place and I like to feel free on stage and, you know, rock and roll and have that essence of just like sweat and skin and like freedom.

• 21:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I feel like your mum's a bit like my mum, like she's never gonna go, oh, sweetie, it was so great, well done you.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  That's not my mum.

• 21:21Fearne Cotton?

  My mum would be like your mum, sort of like, it's a sort of a dig, but disguised as something that's kind of half a compliment.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:29Fearne Cotton?

  But not saying too much about anything and.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  You're like, what's that?

• 21:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Was that a compliment or not? What was that?

• 21:36Speaker 02

  But it's such a good character, like I always love those characters in shows.

• 21:40Fearne Cotton?

  And it actually also drives you further because you can, you're never gonna just rest on your laurels and go, yeah, I've nailed it, I've smashed it, like, I could do better.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  I know, but then there's that thing, if it's like, is it ever enough?

• 21:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no, it's not.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  And then there's that constant thing, you're like, okay, what's next, what's next, what's next? And I, I have a dear friend of mine, he's a great filmmaker and photographer. And we grew up together in West London and we always meet up and he's been a friend of mine since I was like fourteen, like I used to sleep on his couch, he used to sleep on my couch and just yesterday I was like, oh my gosh, I've just got this like unsettling feeling, I have the single out and I just wanna make sure it's been reached out to as many people as possible, like internationally, like, how are we doing in Mexico? How are we doing in India? How are we doing in this? It's like, is it on the playlists over there? Is it like, I'm micromanaging.

• 22:30Fearne Cotton?

  And also like we're talking about the globe here, like the whole world, not just the UK. Like looking at all the countries.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yes, and he said to me, look, you're doing great, relax. And I'm like, but, ah, you know, it's, he said, you remember where you were? You've done so good from where you were and be okay with that and be happy with that. And I was like, yeah. And then I finally had a good night's sleep, but you just need somebody to tell you that sometimes.

• 22:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and I think if that's your personality, I'm the same, you know, you don't ever feel like, oh, I'm just gonna sit back and look at whatever achieved and pat myself on the back. I'm always thinking about, what's the next thing? What's the next thing?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Well, it's also, does it stem from pressure, external pressure of, you know, social media, as we all know, I know it's a very popular topic, explaining it and understanding it and trying to navigate that life now. Does it stem from then, social media leading into pressure, leading into mental health, leading into you changing your lifestyles and routines to meet or match these psychological comparisons that you might not be saying out loud, but you're doing anyway, without even, I feel like, knowing that you're doing it subconsciously?

• 23:40Fearne Cotton?

  I think some of it's definitely from that. I think, you know, we're all, we're all impacted by comparison and looking at what everyone else is doing and everything's so fast now. I also think, you know, like I said at the start, we're, we're both lucky that we love what we do and that's amazing. And I'm all, I don't know how you feel, but I'm always slightly on the side of it could all go, don't fuck it up. Even though I'm like 27 years into this, I'm like, it could go, it could all go. I'm never, I'm never relaxed enough to just think, I'm just gonna keep doing this forever. And there's fear, there's a little bit of fear there that it could go.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I say nice because that's a really good point. It's like, especially when you don't come from a lot, that fear of it all going in the blink of an eye. I don't think that ever leaves us.

• 24:26Fearne Cotton?

  Nope.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  It definitely keeps you grounded. I think that for sure.

• 24:29Fearne Cotton?

  I think so.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  It will also come out in the wash, I feel like, eventually. If that isn't in your DNA and you haven't been that true, authentic self, eventually people will find out.

• 24:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  And I actually think that's what's kept me, I think, in the, in, in this business for so long. I think people just now know that, oh, well, she has always been herself. And I've paid the price of it though, in the early years. But I think now I'm finally reaping the benefits of the honesty that I've shown since the beginning.

• 25:02Fearne Cotton?

  How, what do you think the price was? What do you think it cost you?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Just oversharing and sometimes the teams being like, oh, you could have done without saying that. And opinions and having sort of, I would say unpopular opinions at times, making choices at young ages that obviously you probably can get away with if you weren't famous. You know, being drunk on the street or like sort of trying to call a black cab. And I'm famous, so it's almost like, oh, my gosh, is that Rita that's had a few drinks trying to call a black cab in the middle of Camden, you know?

• 25:38Fearne Cotton?

  Which would be a completely normal saying if you weren't Rita Ora.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I still do those things and I have been and did those things. And now I'm feeling like it's easier for me to do those things. Like, that's what I mean. It's like, I think it's finally paid off a little bit and people aren't as surprised. And I genuinely recognise the cabbies that drive me sometimes. Like, that's how many times I've been in black cabs. And they're like, oh, I read, and I'm like, hey, babes, you all right? And they're like, you remember me? I'm like, oh, my God, I actually do.

• 26:08Fearne Cotton?

  Well, sadly, there's fewer and fewer of them as well, so we've got to keep them in work. We love, we love the black cabs. We love them.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:15Fearne Cotton?

  Save the black cabs. Um, let's talk about the era where you first came onto the scene. We became aware of you in 2012, but of course, you were doing music long before that, various iterations, trying to get your music out there.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:29Fearne Cotton?

  Signing with Roc Nation, you know, you had this whole history which predates 2012. But it's a really interesting era. If we go back to maybe even the early noughties.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:38Fearne Cotton?

  The crazy thing now, and you'll know this from even having stepkids, is that the early noughties, we're now, we've gone full circle and it's now like a nostalgia piece, which for me, I can't believe because it was four seconds ago, but we're now looking to the early noughties like it's vintage. And the fashion's back, I know, I can't, the fashion's back and the music influences back and people are kind of looking to that era like, oh, my God, the early noughties. What would, I can't, it was literally yesterday.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  I was born in 1990.

• 27:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so then in the early 2000s, you were, what, in West London at this point?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  I was, I was in, uh, Labyrinth Grove.

• 27:15Fearne Cotton?

  Labyrinth Grove.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Port Beller Market.

• 27:17Fearne Cotton?

  I love it there.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:19Fearne Cotton?

  So you're walking up the Port Beller Road, you were working in a trainer shop?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  I was.

• 27:22Fearne Cotton?

  Were you wearing like, what was the vibe? Was it, because around those, the, the early 2000s, it was like juicy tracksuit with the diamante balm, was that your style or?

• 27:31Speaker 02

  I love, I still love it.

• 27:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well, it's back, it's back.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  It is.

• 27:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  And I'm like, this is going to sound insane what I'm about to say, but I was just on a jet with Paris Hilton.

• 27:41Fearne Cotton?

  I saw these pictures.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 27:44Fearne Cotton?

  I saw these pictures.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  This is so disconnected.

• 27:46Fearne Cotton?

  This is also what we want.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Come on, you can have, they can be two truths. I have to just explain it to somebody because I still can't believe it. It was you, Paris and Cara Delevingne. Yeah. I saw the pictures. And it's called Sliver. Yeah. Because you're sliving. I don't know if you know the Paris dialect. Oh, yeah. But the Paris dictionary is iconic, also in the Paris dictionary. I love her. And she invited me on Sliver, first time she flew this plane. Right, so you get on the plane, describe it, what's going on in the plane? I met Paris a very long time ago and believe it or not, obviously she has this character that everybody knows of Paris Hilton. Yeah. But she is one of the most supportive, down-to-earth, I know it's crazy to believe. No, I know.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Unrealist, like, businesswoman, smartest woman, like, the things she was saying to me on this plane about business and team building and character building and an identity and finding an identity, it was unbelievable, like, she needs to, I know she's got a hundred books, but like, being a person and a character and a sort of pop star and anything, it is more than just being one thing. It's clever branding on her part as well, that in real life, she literally talks like this. When she spoke to me out of character, I was like, what the fuck? Anyway, on Sliver. Yeah. Going to Washington DC, it was Pride Month and we had this incredible like epiphany of still existing.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  And even with Cara, like, I've known Cara when she was like 18, 19 years old, Delevingne, and we would go out together, there's pictures of us like roaming up and down Oxford Street in central London and she would come out on my shows and, I mean, we were this close, like, we went everywhere together. And Paris, obviously still being Paris Hilton, we were like, how have we still, how are we still doing this? And Paris was like, because you're that bitch. Yes! Can that be on a t-shirt? And I was like- That's so good. You're right, I'm that bitch. And she was like, you have to keep telling yourself that, you have to. Yes! You're that bitch. And I was like- You're that bitch. Yes! And she made these t-shirts that said, Gay for Paris. Love.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  And like, we had to wear it. What was my point of telling you this Paris Hilton story? Who cares?

• 29:58Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, the juicy tracksuit.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Oh, that's it.

• 30:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, does she have one?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  And she had one on.

• 30:02Fearne Cotton?

  Course she did.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  She had one on.

• 30:03Fearne Cotton?

  She's been wearing them consistently since the early 2000s.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Pink velour, like, without a doubt.

• 30:08Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so jealous. I want that tracksuit.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  The Pride flowers on the jet. I mean, I had the best time of my life.

• 30:15Fearne Cotton?

  Of course you did.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Anyway, I just had to share it with someone. I, because I just got back.

• 30:18Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so glad you shared it with us. Can I come next time? If there's, like, I know her a bit. I made a documentary about her a thousand years ago.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 30:24Fearne Cotton?

  I've been to her house. I've swung around her pole.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:27Fearne Cotton?

  But also, let's just go back to I'm That Bitch, which is now my new mantra, which I'll be using

• 30:31Speaker 02

  Maybe that's the name of this, this episode.

• 30:33Fearne Cotton?

  I think it might be, but I am making my own bespoke t-shirt. I'm stealing it.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  She's like, you're that bitch and don't forget it.

• 30:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  You're gonna land, you're gonna do this show, because I had a show at Pride and it was Washington DC, World Pride, which is like, for me, I've done all the Prides, like, in all the countries, and it's a big, big, big, huge priority for me, this community, the LGBTQIA+ community. I do everything for them, for the gays, for the queens, like, they've supported me through everything. And I feel like the World Pride was like the ultimate. And it was really fun.

• 31:07Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's so great. I love it.

• 31:11Fearne Cotton?

  Happy Place is partnering with the Dove Self Esteem Project to explore how women can build real body confidence, and self-care is a massive part of this conversation. Back in the early 2000s, we were sold fat-burning pills and appetite suppressants. Today, we might feel things are slightly better, but I think we're still being sold different ideas and early morning routines that might not be benefiting us at all. Here's the question, are these hacks really about your health, or are they a thinly veiled attempt to control the way you look? Because according to Dove, millennial women are 1.3 times more likely to define self-care as working on their appearance. So earlier I asked you to think about your self-care routine.

• 31:54Fearne Cotton?

  Now, whatever you answered, I now want you to ask yourself, am I doing this for me or because I feel I should? Is it something I deeply enjoy and my body genuinely needs? Or something I've absorbed from magazine covers, social media or airbrushed celebrities? What's the motivation behind it? I know that this can be quite confronting, I'm right there with you, but I think at this point in my life, I feel like I know myself a hell of a lot better. So I know what kind of movement for a start is going to work for me. I don't want to do these HIIT workouts that I used to do, like sprinting on a running machine for half an hour until I'm literally sweating and sweating and sweating. I want to move gently, I want to move intuitively, I want to feel good. It's so much more about how I'm feeling.

• 32:40Fearne Cotton?

  The same with what I'm eating, I want to eat foods that make me feel really energised and whole and like I can really take on the whole day ahead. And I'm really not into any overcomplicated beauty routines that are going to take up precious minutes that I could be with my kids or doing something that I know really makes me feel good. So how could you tweak your self-care to be more about listening to your body, not trying to fix it? Every body and its needs is different, which is why it's massively important not to follow the trends or do something just because your mate or that woman online does. Maybe self-care actually looks like letting go of routines that drain your time, money and energy.

• 33:20Fearne Cotton?

  Maybe it just really looks like going for a walk on your lunch break, booking a GP appointment for that niggling issue, calling a friend who makes you howl with laughter, just take a couple of seconds to really think about it.

• 33:33Fearne Cotton?

  All right, we'll check in on all of this later. Let's get back to Rita and how she takes care of herself. So look, we can, we can look at these juicy tracks, that was a sign of the times, we can reminisce. Sign of the times. I mean, I had, I had a lot of fun in the early noughties. You know, like all eras, there's a good side and there's a slightly darker side. The good side, I was really lucky, I was in the thick of the music industry at that point. I was having an absolute riot, it was just pure fun. You were just mixing, rubbing shoulders with literally the coolest people in the world. I mean, I was not one of them, but I was absolutely in the mix. I mean, you're cool. Very fun. In my upbringing, it was like, you, cool, Alexa Chung, like that era. I am not in her bracket, but I will. It was that time of like.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Going to see shows like.

• 34:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it was. The music scene was so exciting. There was a lot of bands and all the genres were kind of mixing together. It was really, really exciting. If we look at perhaps the sort of toxic undertone of that era. Like I said, there's a toxic undertone to most things and most eras, but if we specifically look at that, because it is this nostalgic piece that young people are looking to at the moment.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  It is.

• 34:42Fearne Cotton?

  It was also the inception of everyone talking about size zero, which, you know, was sort of an American concept that came over here. And we saw it in the press and it was like, what the hell is this? We had the size zero thing going on, which was, you know, incredibly confusing for lots of young people. I would have been, I can't do maths, I was in my early twenties? In the early two thousands, is that right? Yeah, I would have been. And so I was, and I was in the industry, so I was really susceptible to all of this messaging that was coming and going and, and seeing women that were, you know, incredibly tiny.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:13Fearne Cotton?

  With not much nuance, especially on the catwalks. It was really a time where that felt quite potent. I think it impacted me most definitely. I wouldn't say exclusively, because I think also just like growing up in TV. There's a whole bunch of other stuff going on and I, I mean, I did have an eating disorder. I had bulimia for about 10 years. But I think some of that was because of this. Some of it was control, some of it was other factors. But I think it's undeniable that most of us were impacted when we look at body confidence and how we saw ourselves. I mean, you were much younger at that point, but when you came on the scene in 2011, 2012,

• 35:53Fearne Cotton?

  and we've still got the kind of, the hangover of that era, how did that impact you? Where was your body confidence at?

• 36:00Speaker 02

  I think around then, I was very confident in my body because I was just so happy to be doing what I loved. And if you look back at my music videos and how I dressed, I had such a specific style to like how I wanted to look. That, that was, there was no compromising that. And that has to come with, from a sense of like. Determination and like no one is gonna change my mind. Because I was so, it was so important for me to be a specific character for my music. Like, you know, you create a world for your album and that world for me was like tomboy masculine

• 36:42Speaker 02

  with the mix of sexiness and hot pants but with trainers and I definitely didn't feel the pressures of being thin around then. I actually feel them more now than I did in the early, I would say, because I guess two thousand and twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, there was a real, I would say, celebration in plus size models. I remember that.

• 37:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  Because I do remember seeing something shift.

• 37:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  You know, I had breasts and, you know, it was all very like in my early twenties. I was just really confident in that, in my body then, but I actually think now it is worse than it was then.

• 37:24Fearne Cotton?

  Why do you think that is? You know, we're, we're working with Dove at the moment and this is their whole self-esteem project that we're basing this conversation on. And I think self-esteem, it's such an interesting topic, you know, where that confidence comes from, that sense of self comes from.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  It's so layered. It is.

• 37:42Fearne Cotton?

  So layered, but you know, some of it will be conditional, what we're experiencing now. Some of it will be how we've been brought up. Some of it will be the messaging that's targeted at women. So why would you say your self-esteem or your body confidence has maybe declined?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  So if we compare it back to when I first came out, I actually didn't, I wasn't prepared for the public, for the press, for the attention. I was very just happy to have music out and I hoped that people liked it. It was like that simple. And I ended up getting all these clothes and free clothes being thrown at me and campaigns and fashion and TV shows, The Voice, The X Factor and Adidas Ambassador and everything happened at once. And so I think I was excited and now I've gotten a grip of, I would say, reality a bit more, like with experience and sort of now being in the game a little longer. It all stems from what you think you need to look like.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  I think that that's again, social media and things that I've seen also in the health community, like I'm really into the gym. I think that's my sense of therapy and, you know, people do meditation and I don't have a phone or music during my workout, like in pilates and hot pilates, like I like silence. It's just how I am. I do listen to music towards the end to just like do my cardio blast and that is what gets me through because I hate cardio, but I have to do it. I don't think anyone loves it as much, but I need it to keep me going for my shows. So I think that it's really important to find your sense of purpose with your mental

• 39:21Speaker 02

  health and it's not going to be through the internet and through social media.

• 39:27Fearne Cotton?

  So would you say like even going to the gym or doing pilates, is that because you want your body to look a certain way? Is it for your mental health? Where's that pressure coming from, would you say?

• 39:37Speaker 02

  It started from stamina. I started working out intensely when I turned thirty because I noticed I was just, my stamina was low on my shows, like I was losing my breath after the third song and I started to feel like sick and I was getting sick a lot and I was not being able to show up. And I thought, what is going on? And like nutrition and got a new, I didn't even get a nutritionist actually, I just started to just cancel out rubbish food. And I noticed things and I started to feel lighter in my body and I looked in the mirror and I was feeling really good, but it wasn't because I was getting thinner, it was because I was feeling good. I just was getting healthy and so my muscles started to react in a good way and I was

• 40:21Speaker 02

  doing weights and then I started to pick up three kilograms, two kilograms. And now I've noticed that I, I sleep better and I feel better and I can handle an hour show.

• 40:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  And I think it just comes with age, like in my twenties, I could handle an hour show without working out.

• 40:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, you can do anything in your twenties?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  I could do an hour show hungover and I was like now in my thirties, you know, I can't do a show hungover, I can't drink on the days of work, I can't, but I look forward to my cheat days, like that's me going out and I'm going to eat whatever I want and I think that is vital to have like a free day.

• 40:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, my god, absolutely. I think you're so right, as you get older. The why behind everything that you're doing changes. I wanna feel strong, you know. I know that from my age onwards, muscle is just gonna decline naturally and I've got to work extra hard to keep it and I wanna feel strong. And I think in my twenties and especially that sort of early naughties era, I did feel a lot of that pressure was from the outside world. And I wanted to look a certain way and I care so much less about that now. I wanna feel energized. I wanna feel strong. I wanna feel capable in all the stuff I wanna do in the day.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  I do think, I hope people can look at it as coming from a place of how do you wanna feel? Rather than how do you wanna look?

• 41:43Fearne Cotton?

  Women's bodies have forever throughout history been scrutinized disproportionately, you know, compared to men's. It's, you know, even women chatting about other women's bodies or our bodies is scrutinized. There's so much attention on the female body. It is wild.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  I know.

• 42:03Fearne Cotton?

  It's absolutely wild. And I think you do have to have a certain, it doesn't have to be confidence, but a certain feeling as like, I know, for instance, I've got small tits, flat ass. I'm never gonna have hips and a gorgeous voluptuous, you know, set of hips. I'm just sort of straight. And that's my body's, it doesn't matter if I'm bigger, smaller, that is the shape of my body. And I've got a characterful nose, that's not going anywhere. Like, I know these things about myself and actually with age, I'm pretty, I sort of don't think about them really. I just sort, I just wanna feel like I've got energy. I wanna, I want my digestive system to be working well. I wanna, it's all the basics. I wanna have a good shit in the morning. Let's just be plain speaking about this. I wanna have a good shit in the morning. I wanna have energy. I wanna feel strong. They are the

• 42:47Fearne Cotton?

  main things I'm going for.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Me too. And I think feeling strong is everything.

• 42:51Fearne Cotton?

  It is.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  And I see that now with my mother and I'm always telling her to go and exercise and she does like light pilates and it's really changed her body and she goes for walks and I can see it just, I'm trying to think about the longevity of life and I really hope. That everyone does the same. Yeah, me too. I bought my mum dumbbells the other day. Yeah, me too. Lynn, I hope you've picked them up. I hope she has, she's not listening. I've got my mum ankle weights. Oh, they're good, aren't they? Just one kilogram. Yeah, that's good. And yeah, you just walk with them around and it really, I do that myself. What are your absolute self-care non-negotiables, your musts that you have to do? My routine in the morning is pretty complex, but it's important. Taking my supplements.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  I do, you know, your traditional vitamin C, omega threes. I do a bit of mushroom extracts, not the psychedelic ones, like the lion's manes and the turkey tails and all of that. Brain food, I call it. Yeah. And I do a little green juice. I do an AG1 at the moment, which has all your NAD and minerals and all of that stuff. I can talk about this forever. The typical supplements I would recommend, if any, would just simply be vitamin C, magnesium, omega threes, like start there. I'm big on magnesium. B12. And B12. Yeah, and then I do my exercise routine. And so 20 minutes minimum if I don't have any time. What are we talking, like, you're doing HIIT, are you doing Pilates?

• 44:14Speaker 02

  I have an in-home Pilates setup, so it's as simple as a yoga mat and a couple dumbbells. You honestly don't need much. I do two kilogram, three kilogram weights. And I do like a 20 minute class on Zoom, not live, just like an app. Just to get that blood flowing. It's important to just keep your body moving. I need to sleep more than eight hours. I just have to. Really? Christ, I'm happy with seven. Wow, that's amazing. Maybe that'll change once I have kids. I'm like, absolutely buzzing. Well, that's also maybe now because you've had kids and you've, they wake up at the crack of dawn, I've noticed. I don't need it anymore. I just, I just can't lie in. Just can't. Yeah, no, I need eight hours, but that's non-negotiable, especially when I have to work. Like I have, obviously like jet lag and things, you can't beat it, but

• 44:58Speaker 02

  for the Kylie Minogue tour, I was, I'm in bed, like, we didn't go out at all. And she's very strict too. I learnt a lot from her as well. It's like being an athlete. Like you really have to try not to get sick, go to bed,

• 45:11Speaker 02

  take your magnesium. But guys, it's not rock and roll. No. It's not, it's not. I mean, if I was in a rock and roll band, it'd be different, but it is a one man show at this.

• 45:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's magnesium and good night.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I think my routine's important, taking my supplements, trying not to get sick, sleeping eight hours. Winding down is hard for me. That's a big one. Like, when I come off stage, it's difficult. My adrenaline is booming. And I have to, like, I don't know, read a book or something, listen to a... I've started audiobooks. I've never been into an audiobook. Like, I've usually physically liked to read, but I like now closing my eyes and listening to music or words.

• 45:52Fearne Cotton?

  Nice.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Like, I've been listening to this Henry Miller incredible, like, interview on YouTube. And it's just him talking about, like, books and his library and Big Sur and, like, I actually went to visit it. It's unbelievable. And I love just him explaining it. And you can hear him, like, inhaling a cigarette. And, like, there's something so nice about the atmosphere.

• 46:13Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Um, and so, yeah, I've been into really doing things like that. I love that.

• 46:19Fearne Cotton?

  And what helps you keep your self-esteem afloat? Because, you know, there's all these things we can do, like taking supplements, exercising. But I think also just the amount of imagery we're bombarded with and the sort of level of comparison that we can all slip into can really affect us mentally. Are you quite disciplined with your phone? Do you look at it a lot?

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think for me, the discipline is about just learning how to switch off. So putting my phone down, making sure I'm present, staying really clear in conversation and communicating. I think that's important more than ever. You know, to really take away that comparison that we get subconsciously in our minds just by scrolling on our phones.

• 46:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we all do it.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  I know we all. And it's okay to say that out loud. And it's okay to also say, you know what, for 30 minutes, I'm gonna scroll, but then put it down.

• 47:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Give yourself, like, a time limit.

• 47:07Fearne Cotton?

  We all know, when you get to that bit, we were like, I'm still standing in the same spot. And I'm sure I was meant to be going to the kitchen to do something. And I haven't made it there yet because I'm still stood here scrolling.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Well, when your hands get, uh...

• 47:19Fearne Cotton?

  Locked.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Numb, numb. You get, you know, you get, you're like, wow, I think I've been holding my phone too much.

• 47:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's not good.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:26Fearne Cotton?

  That's time to put the phone down.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 47:28Fearne Cotton?

  We've all done it. We've all done it.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:29Fearne Cotton?

  Would you say, like, looking back over your career or even? You know, years predating your career, have there been self-care habits or things that you've done that you've just thought, I don't know why I'm doing this, but everybody else is doing it and it seems like I should be doing this, or it's come from a place of pressure rather than what actually feels good to you?

• 47:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would, I think for me, the idea of looking a certain way in my late twenties, that's when it started to hit me because my stamina was low, I wasn't looking after my body, I was getting sick a lot. And that's when I was thinking, I was like, not hot. I didn't feel like my body was hot and I didn't accept the idea of like, okay, well, I'm not as thin as these other people and so I'm ugly. And that's really sad to think back on because I know I wasn't and I felt really, it was that, it's like what you do when you're attacking your younger self, like in therapy and you're like, that girl was still really beautiful and I felt like I didn't appreciate her.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  And now I'm looking back and I'm like, she was awesome. And I think, I mean, I learned that in therapy, I do therapy once a week and I'm very into talking to my younger self. And I just feel like we should never forget that. And now I'm looking back like, you were awesome Rita, you went through a lot and you still were able to like, show up every day and be a judge on The Voice and do concerts and all of that stuff and so, yeah.

• 48:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we all do, we're all horrible to our younger selves, it's not nice. And I think most women out there.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  I don't have my phone, I'll show you, I have a picture of myself on my phone as a kid.

• 49:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  I love it.

• 49:05Fearne Cotton?

  Little baby Rita, that's so nice. And you can say nice things to her.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  And I always asked my parents, do I have fingers? Because my thumbs were like that, my hands were always inside and I'm like, did you guys like buy me fingers or did you chop my fingers off? Because why is every picture of me as a kid like that, crunched up?

• 49:19Fearne Cotton?

  What was that about?

• 49:19Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 49:20Fearne Cotton?

  It was a safety thing?

• 49:20Speaker 02

  They're like, you were always holding something. I'm like, that is so weird.

• 49:23Fearne Cotton?

  How funny.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  I was always supposed to be a star.

• 49:25Fearne Cotton?

  You had a fake mic in hand, yeah, exactly, ready to bow out a ballad at any point. How have you made the distinction between a routine that is based on outside pressures and one that feels right to you, one that is bespoke, that makes you feel good?

• 49:39Speaker 02

  I think it's about making the decisions, so like learning what sort of exercise works for your body. I'm not just doing something that you've seen on Instagram because somebody looks good and you want to look like them because it won't work for your body. You need to do things and test things out. To figure out what your body needs. It's all about what your body needs instead of what you think it needs.

• 49:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, most women out there have have felt they worried about people judging their appearance, which is, you know, specifically many women and men, but many women feel sixty two percent of women worried that they've been judged for their appearance. And I think, you know, so many things feed into why we feel like that. But I think, you know, the majority of women feel that pressure. And I don't know what the answer is to for us to all feel slightly less judged. I mean, just kind of, I think the the one thing.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Well, it's just being present. Sixty two percent is a lot.

• 50:30Fearne Cotton?

  It's probably more than sixty two percent, I would say.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  And that's more than half.

• 50:34Fearne Cotton?

  I think also what we forget is, you know, I used to just, you know, worry all the time about I did not like my nose from the side. If I saw it on a monitor or whatever, I would really not be a fan of it, or parts of my body at times because of these pressures. And what we all forget is that we're not being, you know, maybe some of us have been judged by other people. We've been called awful names. That happens all the time. We've, we've had it in the press. We've had it from people on Twitter, Instagram. But most of the time, people are worrying about themselves.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  True.

• 51:05Fearne Cotton?

  They're not worrying about you. Everyone's sat there worrying about themselves and their own insecurity that you won't have even noticed. Whether it's like, I should be breathing in, or, oh, my god, I don't like my forehead, or whatever the thing is. Everyone else is worrying about their version of that.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  I think there's a stigma on the word selfish. You know, there's, there's nothing wrong with being selfish because prioritizing yourself is different to being selfish. Like, you need a bit of selfishness to be your own priority.

• 51:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you and your mum have chats about whether it is body image or confidence levels or low self-esteem?

• 51:40Speaker 02

  We're best friends, me and my mum. No, we talk a lot. Like, I tell her everything. I tell her, like, did I look okay in that? Or, and she's like, you, of course you did. You look great. You are fucking great. And that's nice to hear from your mum. I'm really lucky.

• 51:55Fearne Cotton?

  Does she love your husband?

• 51:57Speaker 02

  Oh, the jokes that they have. She loves him.

• 51:59Fearne Cotton?

  They're like little best buds.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. My dad loves him even more, which was important for me. Yeah, all the jokes are flowing in the house. We have really big laughs in our home.

• 52:09Fearne Cotton?

  That's so lovely. I mean, you and your husband started off as mates before you got together. How do you think that impacts the dynamic once you're married? Does it have a different feel to other relationships you've had?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  I think it's like the key. It's. Hasn't changed anything. I think when you get married and it hasn't changed, that feels, I think that's a good sign. Listen, I'm in my own, my only marriage, I'm not trying to teach anyone anything. I'm just telling you that having that sense of friendship built so much confidence in our now marriage. Like, we are like that. Like, we would date, we were dating other people when we were friends. We were talking about our relationships to each other when we were friends. We would see each other at dinner parties and at parties and I would be like, ugh, this guy I'm seeing is literally making me sick. And I would like tell him why and he would laugh.

• 53:01Fearne Cotton?

  So he's like, make a note for that when we're dating?

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Well, he makes a joke of that, um, that he's always tried to tell me and give me signs since the first day we met, but I honestly never saw him.

• 53:10Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  I literally was like, what are you talking about? He would like, what about all those nights when everybody went home and it was just you and me in the kitchen? And we were just sort of like drinking and talking. I was like, I thought that was just simply because we were talking and you were enjoying my company.

• 53:23Fearne Cotton?

  You're so cute. He was already in love with you and you didn't even know?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I guess, I guess. And he was like, well, do you think I want to stay up till 5am for anybody? And I was like, that was a bit late and I was thinking, why are you staying?

• 53:35Fearne Cotton?

  Rita, you weren't getting the cues, babe.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  And I was trying to say like, go home, I'm tired, but he was trying to stay.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  And I was like, do you want me to call you an Uber?

• 53:45Fearne Cotton?

  And he's like, no, let's just keep on talking.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  And he was like, well, I guess. I don't want you to call me an Uber, but, okay.

• 53:51Fearne Cotton?

  It's so, how long you been married for now? Couple of years?

• 53:54Speaker 02

  It would be, it's gonna be three years this August.

• 53:57Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god, that's so lovely. Do, I mean, obviously you're both so busy, which I think is actually a really beautiful pairing. That you are equals. You both have things you're super passionate about. You can champion each other. You know, you both understand that your work's gonna take you away and lead you to travel and have unsociable hours. Do you have set times where you're just at home doing married things? Or is it just kind of relentlessly chaotic?

• 54:22Speaker 02

  We definitely have busy timetables. It is all about.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Making time for each other through conversation, like physically, I understand it's sometimes impossible. But we have to talk once a day, like at least, at least on a FaceTime or a phone call and text throughout the day and check in. That's like a non-negotiable for me. I'm a very like, I need attention in a relationship and I don't think that's a bad thing. I just want you to, I just wanna know that you're thinking about me.

• 54:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Like all the, every second of the day, if possible. Can you text me scheduled every thirty seconds?

• 54:54Speaker 02

  I'm a Sagittarius, that's just, we're fire signs and so he's a Leo, he's also a fire sign. So Leo and Sagis, I don't know if people, you know, follow astrology, but I'm a very spiritual person, so I believe in these things. And like, he is also an attention seeker and as am I. And so it goes from us wanting both to check in on each other. And I said, since we both like that, then we both should make an effort to do that.

• 55:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  So it's lovely that we like the same things.

• 55:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's really good. Exactly. You, you agree on it, it's fine. It's a mutually agreed situation.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:29Fearne Cotton?

  It's a good thing. Knowing that you're in the thick of, you know, that promo part of a musician's career is wild, especially when it's global. Because you're constantly doing back-to-back interviews, performances, you're on live TV, you could be in two different continents in the same day. It's absolute mayhem.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:47Fearne Cotton?

  If we think about this self-esteem project and knowing that for you, that's got to be intact, for you to be in front of big audiences, to be on camera, you need to be feeling good about yourself. What three things will you keep in mind to ensure that you feel confident and that your self-esteem is in check?

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a great question. I love this question. Um, again, routine. So like if you're traveling, I think it's important to have the skincare you like or little sort of weights in your hotel room, that's what I do, and a yoga mat. And that's why I do a quick twenty minutes, like that's the minimum twenty minutes. I just make sure I check in with my family before I get crazy, like before I look at emails and things. Look, do I look at my phone when I wake up? Sometimes. I'm not like amazing at it. Yeah. Um, but I put it down and then I do my routine. Like I think you just have to check yourself. I'm confident. I love my team. They make me happy. So I have great friends in my team. I think that's important.

• 56:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Familiar faces, friendships. If you don't have a team around you, checking in with friends, making, having a little chat and making sure that the work is done. Like, I actually enjoy working. I'm a very hard worker. I think discipline is important. And when I finish a day of work, I'm like, really happy. I'm proud of myself. There's nothing wrong with being a hard worker, especially with women. And I think that there's a stigma on like, women not feeling like they can do more than one thing and, or not wanting to talk about it as much. And I actually love talking about the fact that I do a hundred things at once. And my husband is a huge champion and I think that that's important too. And he's like, I just can't believe you do so much. And I love that my husband thinks that.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  And having that identity is really empowering for me.

• 57:36Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. He's proud of you.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  And I do think that if you ever find somebody and has, you need to have that mutual respect and proud of each other of whatever it is that you guys do.

• 57:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, because I think, you know, for someone like you doing so much and achieving so much and having that high level of success, there could be some men out there that would be intimidated by that. They wouldn't know how to deal with it, perhaps, did you say?

• 57:59Speaker 02

  I've experienced it in past relationships. It sucks. And it's like, why would I dim my light? You know, there's an you do it also without knowing, by the way, that you're starting to sort of dim your light a little bit and you don't say the same jokes or go out as much. And you're a bit like, what's going on? And then you realise when your friends are like, where have you been? And you know when your friend goes, oh, well, I didn't really like him anyway. I'm like, you could have told me that.

• 58:21Fearne Cotton?

  You could have told me five years ago, mate.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Jesus Christ. Um, but yeah, it's, it's all of those little elements. I think that make you a better person.

• 58:30Fearne Cotton?

  You are quite literally doing it all, Rita Ora. It's wild and brilliant.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  I'm grateful. I want to keep going.

• 58:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well, no, we, don't we all? We've just got to keep working hard.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  And doing it all.

• 58:41Fearne Cotton?

  And being that bitch.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yes. Oh, my gosh. Paris Hilton.

• 58:44Fearne Cotton?

  Paris Hilton.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  You are that bitch.

• 58:46Fearne Cotton?

  You are that bitch. You bloody well are. Rita, where would you say your happy places?

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Oh, honestly, like at home with my husband, my family, and eating a really lovely meal, like a burger and chips. I love a burger. I just can't, I just am so inspired by whoever decided to put like meat or whatever type of, if you're vegan, whatever, in the middle of two pits of bread.

• 59:12Fearne Cotton?

  Such a good idea.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  Genius.

• 59:14Fearne Cotton?

  It's genius, yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  But I just want to shout out Dove for having me as well. I love Dove. It's been a part of my upbringing since I can remember.

• 59:22Fearne Cotton?

  Rita, what a joy to have you on Happy Place. Good luck with all of your endeavours this year. You are nailing it.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  I love you. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Happy Place.

• 59:32Fearne Cotton?

  Oh Rita, thank you. What a joy you are. The thing I love about Rita is she just says it as it is. She, there is no lying or hiding the truth with Rita. She just says what she's thinking and I love that about her. I've seen her over the years at different work events and interviewed her several times and she's just always so polite, so pleasant, so full of energy and joy. We love you Rita. And how are you feeling? Has your brain been ticking over thinking about your own self-care habits? Maybe you've realised some of them are a little bit more about pressure than pleasure. That's okay. Listen, look, we're all about learning. No judgement here. I know there's that saying that you have to suffer for beauty, but we can just put that one in the bin right now. Beauty should not hurt or be stressful or unhealthy.

• 1:00:16Fearne Cotton?

  It's not about looking like someone else, it's about being fun and playful and celebrating your own unique size, shape, skin tone and creativity. And also, none of this is about what you do, whether it's pilates or journaling or meditating. It's about why you do it. From today, promise me we're going to commit to caring for our bodies because they deserve it, not because we want to change them. Okay, this is such a huge conversation. Let's carry it on on Instagram. @dove and @happyplaceofficial. I can't wait to hear what ridiculous naughtyst trends you're absolutely putting in the bin. Celery juice cleanse, goodbye. And if you want more support, Dove has created a brilliant journal full of body confidence exercises to help in building better awareness about our internalised beauty belief systems

• 1:01:00Fearne Cotton?

  that may be more harmful than helpful. You can find it at dove.com/y2k. For now, a massive thanks again to Rita, to Dove for making this episode happen, to the producer, Anushka Tate, at Happy Place Studios, and to you, redefine self-care on your terms, my loves.