Dumb Blonde Podcast: Larry Birkhead (Part 1)

Part 1 of a 2-part series Bunnie sits down with former celebrity photographer Larry Birkhead to reveal the untold story of Anna Nicole Smith—beyond the headlines. From their first meeting at the Kentucky Derby to the chaos behind the spotlight, Larry shares what really went down. He opens up about Anna’s private struggles, media misconceptions, wild moments, and the side of her the world never got to see. From love and loss to legal battles and protecting her legacy—this is the real story. From intimate moments and unexpected kindness to public scandals and personal heartbreak, Larry reflects on the highs and lows of their relationship—and how it all began. Larry Birkhead: IG https://www.instagram.com/larryanddannielynn/ Watch Full Episodes & More: YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@Dumbblondepod

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bunnie XO?

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• 1:07Bunnie XO?

  Is this thing on? What's up, you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I am super excited about the guest that we have. I think this man has gone through a complete media hurricane and somehow managed to become this amazing father and I just really am so grateful and thankful to have you here, Mr. Larry Birkhead.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you. Well, what an intro. Thank you.

• 1:35Bunnie XO?

  I mean, it's real though, because I feel like everybody is like, oh, it's Anna Nicole's ex. And it's like, I think you're so much more than that. I think you survived a shitstorm and literally chose to raise a daughter over profit. And I think,

• 1:52Bunnie XO?

  Just your testimony and stood the test of time. There's so much that we're gonna dive into that I learned about you. And then I rewatched the documentary last night that we're gonna kind of dissect. While we're on the podcast together. But I mean, just starting off, you grew up in Kentucky. I was really, it was really crazy. Is this right information? Because sometimes I Google stuff and get like wrong information. You have a twin brother?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  I do have a twin brother.

• 2:19Bunnie XO?

  Do you guys look like identical?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  We don't, actually, we don't look a lot alike. We're fraternal, but had we looked a lot alike, I would have probably used him as a decoy during a lot of my craziness.

• 2:29Bunnie XO?

  Dude, that would have been so cool, right? That was gonna be my next question. Like, if you had a twin brother, why did you not just like you guys could have totally played the media?

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Which is, it's weird because I have a twin brother, but my dad's name is Larry Birkhead. So, or was, he passed away, but he, he, um, when all this stuff came out in the media, he had a lot of fun with his friends, telling them that he dated Anna Nicole.

• 2:52Bunnie XO?

  Oh, I bet.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  If you don't believe me, just look at the paper, that's my name, so yeah.

• 2:56Bunnie XO?

  I love that, that's awesome. So I, your family has had to stand beside you through this whole craziness, which we'll get into later. But I want to learn a little bit more about you. So tell me a little bit about you. You want, you grew up in Kentucky. I know that you went to college and high school, like, and you're still in Kentucky.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Well, we, what we, I grew up, you know, um, when, when I was young, my family moved just months old from Pennsylvania to Louisville, Kentucky. And then we, I grew up there, um, and, you know, it was, it was a great place to grow up. And while I was there, you know, going through high school, I started wanting to get into journalism and things like that. And, um, so I actually started, um, you know, taking classes with photography. When I was in college, I took, um, a lot of journalism classes and that was my major and everything. And so basically, um,

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Kind of just wanted to go down that path, but I didn't really know kind of where I wanted to fit in the, in the whole journalism thing. So I started getting interested in like celebrity photography and some stuff like that. And so I actually started out writing and, and when you're in Kentucky, there's not a ton of stuff when it comes to like celebrity stuff. So you have to either travel to Nashville.

• 4:14Bunnie XO?

  Unless you're into the Judds.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:16Bunnie XO?

  Shout out to Winona.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Or, you know, you go, you know, you travel to the big cities and you do work. So I kind of like carved out a little, you know, spot for myself to where, you know, my career took off when I was like just in the right place at the right time. I had a, I was doing a lot of volunteer work for the Derby Festival and they were recruiting people to come in for the Derby and things. And it was a year that I was kind of like, you know, like Mr. Haney on Green Acres, you're doing this, but you're also doing that.

• 4:48Bunnie XO?

  Right, right. Like jack of all trades, master of none.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  At the same time, I was trying to break into the photography stuff. So there was an situation where there was the whole movie Titanic craze, you know, had just happened. And there's always a steamboat race for the Kentucky Derby and as a part of this two week festival. They'll race anything, dogs, bids, you know, whatever it's like. So.

• 5:10Bunnie XO?

  I want to do the Kentucky Derby. I want to. He keeps inviting us and I want us to go. I think it would be so sick. If we can make it work in our calendars, we will. But I, I'm excited. I want to do it.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  It'll be awesome. But, um, so yeah, so that year, um, I want to say it was like 1998. I, uh, the, the, one of the steamboats that were racing against the other steamboat had just sank and some, somebody, a worker got mad. They got fired and they pulled something and the whole boat went under. So they just brought the boat up at the time of, for this whole big festival for that week. And on the boat was Gloria Stewart, which is like the, the old lady from the Titanic that threw the necklace in the ocean.

• 5:52Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  You know, and she was there and it was just kind of.

• 5:57Bunnie XO?

  She's like a history artifact.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:00Bunnie XO?

  Like seriously, in human form.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  I, I remember because I had like my little microphone, my little tape recorder and I had my camera and stuff and I had never had a picture published. I'd never written a story. I was, I was taking classes. So it was kind of like hyper to get out there before I really should have.

• 6:15Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  And, um, I managed to get her to come up to the edge of the steamboat that just sank. And she put her arms out like, you know, the king of the world and I snapped the photo. And I don't know, I mean, it's probably wasn't the greatest photo. I remember like one of her fingers got cut off. But at the, at the, at the time, it was like the beginning of like digital.

• 6:34Bunnie XO?

  But why is she always around boats sinking?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  I, I don't know.

• 6:37Bunnie XO?

  What is going on with this lady?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  I have to be honest. I'm glad she was that year because what it did for me was, um, I got my first byline and it to other people, you know, it's like, okay, whatever. But to me it was enough to energize the spark in me to say, hey, this is something cool that I want to do. So I kind of parlayed that into, um, trying to get into this big derby party. It's, it's, um, happens every year and I would see it on television. It's the Barnstable Brown Gala and it's like a diabetes fundraiser. And to me, growing up, it was almost like, um, getting a ticket to the Wonka Chocolate Factory.

• 7:10Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Cause on the news, they always, yeah, they show these gates and you don't know what's going on behind it. But everybody's talking about it, but you can't get in.

• 7:18Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  So I was like, that was the only celebrity stuff that was happening because the, when the derby happens, a lot of the celebrities come in and stuff. And that's really, if you're going to be in entertainment news, you know, area, that's like where it's at. So, um, I had called before, you know, to this hostess of this party and ask if I could cover it prior to me getting my, uh, picture that year. And, uh, I got hung up on like every year, like, you know, buzz off, you know, you know?

• 7:44Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  And so basically, um, after that byline came out and I thought, you know, I was bigger than, you know, anybody going. I took, I went over.

• 7:53Bunnie XO?

  Put a little wind in your sail.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. I went over there and I had it laminated and I dropped it off on the front porch. And then I went around the corner and got on my cell phone. It was probably like this big, you know, like the bag phones and stuff. And I was like, hey, you know, it's me. I, you know, I got my, uh, name in the, it was USA Today was my first ever article, first ever byline. So to me that was.

• 8:13Bunnie XO?

  That's awesome though.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Well, and I, I, only because a lot of people have to work their way to get to there. For me, it was just kind of being in that right spot. Because when I called the editor, like, okay, we want this. Don't give it to anybody else. And so that particular. Just that happenstance moment got me into that party. And I worked my way through that party every year. And I was kind of like the go to guy for all like the weekly magazines and the celebrity things and the newspapers. And I actually had it to where, I don't even know how I did it, but I would always be covering for like three or four magazines, two newspapers, you know, and everybody wanted their own exclusive. So I was like, but I wasn't really like a paparazzi. Like I didn't stand and like, like wait, you know.

• 8:59Bunnie XO?

  So that was, that was going to be my next question. Was it more like paparazzi? But you were interested in the journalism side of it, which I think is awesome because I love journalism and I feel like journalism is such a dying art, especially now with social media. So I think that's really cool.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Well, I started out, you know, the, even though the photograph was one of my first things, along with a little byline or whatever. I remember after that, I started, you know, doing the written reports. So I would go on like, I went on tour with like different music artists. They would assign me to like the Lilith Fair with the Dixie Chicks and all that. Remember all that?

• 9:35Bunnie XO?

  Of course. That was like, what a time to be alive.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:38Bunnie XO?

  Like it was awesome.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  And then they, I got on this, they stuck me on this Ricky Martin thing where everybody was like going crazy about, you know, it was like the whole living La Vida Loca thing.

• 9:48Bunnie XO?

  Give us some Ricky Martin tea.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Well, you know, honestly, the thing with Ricky Martin, I mean, I mean, he was always really cool to me. They always let me go backstage. I had really good access and stuff. The thing that happened to me is I wrote an article and after like the 15th concert, I was like, you know, what else can I say? But you know, when your editor is telling you what to do, you're like, you know, hey, I've got to do this. So I remember it was around Christmas and I had, I think I was all the way up in like Columbus or something and there was a Christmas show and there was a one, there's a lot of stuff that happened. I don't think that anything was like, oh my God, crazy. But it was like, I was like saying, okay, here's what happened to the editors and, and I turned my story in. Well, they took everything that I wrote and then one little sentence that I wrote that

• 10:33Speaker 01

  was said, that a male dancer gave Ricky a kiss on the cheek. So that was the headline.

• 10:39Bunnie XO?

  And ran with it.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  So then I started getting calls from like Ricky's publicist and she was like saying, You know, oh, he's, you know, what he's, what's going on? You know, it's like, so I mean, I don't want to get into like too much because it's really wasn't, it wasn't my, as far as like

• 10:53Bunnie XO?

  Intention.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  It wasn't my intention. And then I was at the, the mercy of like a newspaper, but like after that I, I, um, because of, I understood where they were coming from of like, you know, why did this happen when there was this and this? And, um, I kind of changed my focus. I was like, and I had a couple of run ins. I can't name the name of, but I had a celebrity run in that I had where, um, I had to stand up for the truth of what, you know, my interview was. And that led to, uh, me just getting kind of a sour taste in my mouth about like the written part of it.

• 11:29Bunnie XO?

  Especially back then, because I mean, we have clickbait now, but it's nothing like it was back then. And, you know, the early 2000s where the paparazzi and the, um, Inquirer and like all those tabloids were just insane. They were looking, they were like vultures. They would literally, I've had so many guests, celebrity guests that on the couch and talk about how, you know, back then they would pretty much blackmail people and say, you either have to do this interview with us or we're going to run our version of what we care to tell the world.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  It's, but they, um, I, I, I mean, there's always, um, you know, I guess after those stories and things and, and it wasn't specific like about, um, any one artist. I just kind of felt like it was a, it was a need to kind of transition to photographs because I felt like the photographs, they're not going to edit my photographs. I mean, they could, but they're, they're, you know, they speak for themselves.

• 12:28Bunnie XO?

  And they didn't have AI back then.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  So it was long before that. Yeah. That's how ancient I am. But like, you know, it,

• 12:34Bunnie XO?

  Same. We have the, we share a same birthday, which I love.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 12:38Bunnie XO?

  I love that you're born in January 22nd because I don't meet very many people who are born on January 22nd.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  The same day.

• 12:44Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  You know, and Anna's son, Daniel was born the same day.

• 12:47Bunnie XO?

  I do know that. I do know that. We'll talk about that in a little bit. I went and visited their graves in the Bahamas whenever I went there. Um, yeah, it was, I've always been a huge Anna fan. Um, so moving on from that, what, what was your most, besides, you know, meeting Anna Nicole, of course, but who was your favorite celebrity to work with? And who was your least favorite? If you can tell us?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  You know, I honestly, I don't know if it's just because I try to be nice to everybody and that's just I was brought up in a way, you know, you know, open doors for, you know, people and help people across, not to be cliche.

• 13:20Bunnie XO?

  You're a southern gentleman.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, thank you, but I never really, um, didn't have a whole lot of beef with people. I will say that, um, one of the sweetest people that I actually met way back before all my craziness and then had, and then I wouldn't say met again, but they didn't really remember me again, but we developed a great relationship and Dani Lynn was really, um, just loved this person was Loretta Lynn.

• 13:46Bunnie XO?

  Oh.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  Just the sweetest.

• 13:48Bunnie XO?

  That's amazing.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  And Dani Lynn actually looked up to her like she was a grandmother, you know, type figure. And we can talk about it later with the absence of, you know, Anna's mom being a, um, that grandmother type, but, but, um, yeah, so that was one of the nicest, I would say, but I like I had, I went on tour with like Tina Turner concerts and a lot of different.

• 14:09Bunnie XO?

  That is so cool.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:11Bunnie XO?

  Like no, not many people can say that. Like you went on tour with Tina Turner, like that's amazing. How was she as a, as a human?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  I mean, she was nice. I honestly didn't spend a ton of time with her. It was just to be in the presence of someone that that's.

• 14:25Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, to even see a show from her, like, that's amazing.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  But I like, I kept finding myself in these weird situations, like I would be sent from one job to the next and I was kind of on a roll and it did a lot for my self-confidence because I wasn't really a big, I wasn't always confident about myself and I was this always like the lanky kid in school that was like, you know, like stuffing my shirts with like fake muscles or something or a double layer in the clothes, you know? So for, to me, it was like, you know, it did a lot for me, you know, myself and my confidence for all that, but I, I just kept moving into something else. I remember like one time, um, I was out in LA and I don't know how this happened, but I was covering, uh, there was a reporter that canceled for what a major news organization and I did

• 15:11Speaker 01

  the red carpet for them and, um, I was backstage when Halle Berry won her award. For the best actress or whatever.

• 15:20Bunnie XO?

  For Monster.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:21Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  And it's weird because she came, I guess she did some press on a different area that I wasn't at. She came back off the stage and she ran off the stage. And I was like happy for her. I'd never met her in my life and I opened my arms and like she was like, oh my God. And like she hugged me and then it was like a good, probably 10 seconds and she started going like this.

• 15:43Bunnie XO?

  She's like, all right, enough buddy. Who are you?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it was like, like the reality set is like, I don't know this guy.

• 15:50Bunnie XO?

  But you guys were both so caught up in the moment. Like what a sweet moment.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  I was happy for her and you know, I'm sure she probably doesn't remember, but it was like, to me it was like, just, I just kept finding myself in weird spots.

• 16:01Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, well, you were meant to be there for a reason, even though you might not know why. You still were meant to be there for a reason. She needed that hug.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  I, um, but after that I, I went on and I continued to do the Derby Beat every year. And that's when in, um, 2000, I'd say 2002, it started getting really crazy. There were a lot of like crazy celebrity happenings. There was a time when Pam Anderson came. She was dating Kid Rock at the time to this, um, the Barnstable Brown Gala and it was like this. Real chaotic and like celebrities go, it's like a back door, backyard bash, but like a really cool gala. And it's like for diabetes, so people are doing a good thing, but also having a great time. And it's like, so Pam Anderson's there. It's a new relationship with Kid Rock and, um. You know, and I guess the, a lot of the media started spinning things from the night into different tales.

• 16:53Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  And, and.

• 16:54Bunnie XO?

  Like they do.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was like, by the end of the time when it was done, she was on the ground licking like some bald head's fan's head or it was. You know, and then all of this stuff came into.

• 17:04Bunnie XO?

  Did that happen?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Well, there were some crazy things that happened. It was a year like when Anne Heche, the actress was there and you know, and like, there was a lot of like crazy things and. I, I, I don't want to say every single thing, but I'll say that, um, out of that, some of the stuff that was reported.

• 17:18Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  That whole thing got caught up in Pam Anderson, I think in Tommy Lee's divorce or something. It was going on at the time. And it was going back and forth and, and, and, uh, I don't know, or some divorce case she was in.

• 17:30Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  And so basically, uh, it was like, um. News. So the following year, you know, it was 2003 and I was back on the same beat again. And all these celebrities were announced of who was coming and one of the celebrities was Anna Nicole Smith. And I was going down the list of the celebrities with my editors and they're like, "Okay, good, good, good, good." You know, and they were like telling me what we want me to do. And they're like, "Okay, Anna Nicole's coming. Don't leave her side." And I was like, "Okay, all right, yeah, whatever." You know, and I-

• 18:04Bunnie XO?

  So, okay, pause right there. Were you a fan of Anna before meeting her?

• 18:09Speaker 01

  I had-

• 18:10Bunnie XO?

  I mean, I think she's like every guy's fantasy, but you know-

• 18:13Speaker 01

  I mean, obviously, like, you know, posters, you know, when she was, you know, when doing guests and stuff and all that, I had that. And, you know, I'd seen her in the magazines probably long before, you know, like, I should be, you know, like going through magazines in my dad's room and stuff.

• 18:29Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  But like-

• 18:31Bunnie XO?

  I mean, I did too. She was hot.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, yeah, I knew of her, but I also knew of like the headlines, the things that people had said about her.

• 18:39Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  So I, you know, had a-

• 18:41Bunnie XO?

  But even being in that industry, like you still believed headlines because you knew how they worked?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Well, I really don't, I don't know that I believe them. I'm always like open to like, you know, finding out for myself.

• 18:52Bunnie XO?

  Gotcha.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  But I was, you know, look, I mean, it's, it's-

• 18:55Bunnie XO?

  We're human, so we're gonna, we're gonna judge.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. But at the same time, you know, like, it was, it was during the, her reality show.

• 19:06Bunnie XO?

  Oh, okay.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  So basically, she was in the middle of shooting a reality show, the same year Jessica Simpson was there. She was shooting her reality show. I think Janet Jackson and Latoya Jackson hadn't seen each other in years or whatever they were together. It was like, all these weird things were happening.

• 19:20Bunnie XO?

  I feel like it was such a cool time back then. Like, we don't have that anymore.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:24Bunnie XO?

  There's no organic, like, celebrities don't talk anymore. They've learned their lessons because of that era.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  So, but it was weird, though, that, that night just seemed a little bit weird. But I will say, you know, Anna was doing her thing. She was, you know, you know, when they shoot reality scenes, it seemed like somebody was kind of telling them, "You're gonna do this, you're gonna do this," or whatever. And totally, she was busy. I kind of took note of her, took pictures.

• 19:48Bunnie XO?

  How'd you feel the first time you saw her?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  I honestly thought, you know, that she was extremely pretty. I thought she was now, and I don't mean this in any different way, but you know, Anna's weight had gone up and down. This was when she was at her heaviest and I looked at her and I thought, wow, you know, people were making fun of her in the press about her weight and stuff. And I still thought, I was like, say what you want, but this is like, she's beautiful.

• 20:12Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  You know, and so I, there wasn't a lot of interaction then because I felt like as far as between the two of us, but there was a time when I went over and I just introduced myself or whatever, and she gave me a kiss on the cheek and it was, it wound up somehow making it into her reality show episode that, and so my friends were calling me saying, hey, dude, I saw you on, you know, Nicole's, so I didn't think anything of it. And, you know, I went about my life, my business or whatever, and got some great pictures that year. But the next year was, it was 2004.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Attention all new and existing members of the WDNC. I'm Melanie Sanders and this is the We Do Not Care Club Podcast. We got to midlife and realized we just simply do not care much anymore. Now we gotta help each other make sense of hot flashes, dry coochie, chin hair, trifling families, brain fog, and bat wings. We are not alone and we will be heard. So come join the WDNC. Follow and listen to the We Do Not Care Club Podcast with Melanie Sanders wherever you get your podcasts.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Literally because the Derby is always the same day, the first Saturday in May, you know, so and this is parties always on Friday. I was literally standing in the same spot that I was a year before that and probably pretty much every year prior, but and Anna Nicole was placed at the same table. And she gets out of this bus first, though. This big bus pulls up and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And it's like, people are screaming and stuff. It was like the Beatles had arrived or something. And it was like, what's happening? And all of a sudden you see this big black bus go down the side with Anna's face on it and it said trim spa.

• 21:51Bunnie XO?

  That was her trim spa era.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:53Bunnie XO?

  Trim spa, baby.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  So, you know, and for those that don't know, I guess it's a, it's a diet pill that Anna was endorsing. So.

• 22:01Bunnie XO?

  That was the era of diet pills, because I was on diet pills then, too.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:05Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  But the door to the bus opened up. And I saw like this diamond ring fly out and like t-shirts started flying, like she was throwing t-shirts off and like, I'm like, what is she doing? It's like she started hitting the ground running with doing promo, like basically she was throwing Trim Spa t-shirts out to everybody.

• 22:23Bunnie XO?

  I feel like she was really good at promoting herself.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:26Bunnie XO?

  And like it says in the documentary, which we'll start talking about in a little bit, she, as soon as the cameras were on her, she came alive.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was a different, it was, it was almost like a light switch, like I think of, I was thinking about it earlier and I was thinking what the, the transition of that, but, which we could talk about, but yeah, so t-shirts were flying and people were screaming and, and, and there were a lot of celebrities there. And, and all heads turned when she got off that bus.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  She had on this black dress, it was like low cut with these rhinestones and she had, you know, her hair was all up, like jewelry just flashing. Every time I took a picture, it was flashing all over the, you know, it's like, it was like, it was kind of like an aura, you know, like when she moved through the crowd.

• 23:16Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  And people were like, but I mean, I was still in the mode because I had a job to do, I had like several jobs to do. So I was like, I, I really wasn't like reading too much into it, other than like that, wow. But also the transition of the year prior to that.

• 23:31Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  She had, and, and lost all of that weight, you know, and now she's this diet pill spokesperson, but she's still, people are still talking about her even more. She's like just literally reinvented herself.

• 23:43Bunnie XO?

  She was polarizing.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  It, it, and, and also like when I saw her in 2004, I thought she was, it was very distinctively different than she was in her guest days. But it was a totally different kind of beautiful. It was just, it was weird. It was almost like a different person. But

• 24:02Bunnie XO?

  A different era for her.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, but I also think she was exuding something like some different energy, you know, like if you believe in like energy and

• 24:10Bunnie XO?

  Of course, yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And I, I, it wasn't like, um, oh, hi, nice to meet you. And I talked to her. It was like, you know, she was bubbly and she was, and actually after the fact,

• 24:24Speaker 01

  video kind of came out of this and it, so it exists of actually the time in 2004 where she actually turns to her attorney, who was on her reality show and

• 24:33Bunnie XO?

  Howard.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, um, she says, who's that? And he says, uh, oh, that's Larry. And she's like, who? And it's really loud in there. And he goes Larry and she goes, uh, she, and then she still didn't hear him. So she asked again in this video and, um, Howard says, who cares? You know, you've had such a great year. And he was like pumping her up for like her, you know, that was just part of his job, you know? But it was weird that she was going out of way to ask. And I was like, um, well, after I've seen that since, but at the moment I still didn't think anything about it, you know? So she had this table all set up and everybody, you know, booze is flowing and everything's going and people are having a good time and, you know, um, Kid Rock was on the stage and like, there's all these performances.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  People just get up and start jamming for no reason. And so she was all into the performance and stuff, but she was watching me take pictures of her. And she was a master at not being obvious, but giving me the poses and stuff that she thought that I needed.

• 25:31Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So it was kind of cool because I'm like, okay, she gets this because it's like we were having a photo shoot.

• 25:36Bunnie XO?

  But she was flirting with you.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Well, I, you know, honestly, I, I like, it goes back to confidence again, I guess, you know, and I, I didn't, I didn't think that.

• 25:43Bunnie XO?

  You didn't think you had a chance with Anna Nicole?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Never in a million years. I would, it did what I ever, ever in my mind think that like, I literally, in fact, I was so embarrassed because like she handed me a drink or something off this table and I don't know what I was drinking, but I, and so I was drinking on the job, which was probably dangerous, taking pictures and whatever.

• 26:00Bunnie XO?

  Sorry, you don't work for them anymore, do you? Oh, yeah, you do, dude. Do you still work for them?

• 26:03Speaker 01

  You know, well, I don't work for them, but I, I'm my own boss. But like at the same time, like I, you know, it, it, you know, that's gone.

• 26:09Bunnie XO?

  It was a different era.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  A different time, you know, drinking on the job. But yeah, so I, I picked the drink up and it's in this video too. And I like literally drink and I don't drink much. So it didn't, it was like heavy bourbon or something like, and I almost spit it out. But when I look at my reaction on the video that I've seen now, I look like, you know, Don Knotts on Three's Company. It was like, you know, like some bubbling fool or something. And like, I don't know what it was, but she laughed.

• 26:34Bunnie XO?

  Oh.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  And.

• 26:36Bunnie XO?

  Women do love men that make them laugh. That's what I loved about my husband.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean, so something about that moment, I guess, I got another kiss. That this was a little bit different than the first peck on the cheek or whatever, you know? And I said to her, I said, you know, I'm going to be taking pictures tomorrow and I just wanted you to know that I'll be around. So I'm not going to bother you or whatever and whatever. And I got this call from Anna's attorney who said, Howard, who said, Anna's going to be down in the gift shop, shopping for her derby hat and some things. If you want to, you know, take pictures like, yeah, yeah. You know, so my editors I knew would eat it up. So I was like, got down there and I got there and she was wearing this tank top that said Anna Nicole on it.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  And she, I'm sorry, sorry about that.

• 27:31Bunnie XO?

  It's okay.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  It's too early to start.

• 27:35Bunnie XO?

  No, it's okay. I can imagine how you feel inside.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  But I, I, it's weird because I see that in my head, the photograph that I took of that. Cause my brain thinks like a photographer. So I think in my mind,

• 27:57Speaker 01

  when I think about these things, I see the pictures that I took. So anyway, so we're gonna.

• 28:02Bunnie XO?

  No, you're okay. This is a complete safe space. Trust me. We'll be crying with you by the end of this interview. I promise. Mimi's already crying.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  But anyway, so she, super bubbly, like, you know, and, you know, and she was walking around this hat store or whatever, it was kind of like a pop-up shop or whatever you call it. And she, she said, what do you think about this hat? What do you think about this hat? We went through the aisle and stuff and like, and she got to this one hat and she tried it on and I'd already seen her reality show, so I knew pink was her favorite color. And so the hat that she had asked me my opinion on was pink and I said, that's it. She put it on, I was like, that's it, you know, cause like it looked great on her and she had not, she wasn't dressed ready, ready for the Derby yet, but she just had her jeans and a tank top and stuff on.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  So took some photos, didn't think much of it. And I got ready for the big Derby race that next day, or that same day, actually, a couple hours later. And, you know, Kim Cattrall from Sex and the City was there and I was trying to get a picture of her and, you know, and she, I was like, can I get a picture? You know, I don't go up and stalk people and say, so I was talking to their publicist and stuff and tell them who I'm working for and stuff. And she's like, and Kim Cattrall turned to me and she's like, are you any good? And like, like Samantha, you know, like, you know, she said it just like that. I was like, oh, wow.

• 29:29Bunnie XO?

  I, I picture Kim Cattrall being how Samantha is. I feel that's very true to life.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it was like, it was like kind of surreal and I was like, you know, and then Jessica Simpson was there and, you know, she wasn't near as friendly as Anna and she was tied up with, I guess she was married to Nick Lachey at the time and they were doing that newlyweds or whatever. And so I was kind of just observing the room or whatever. And, and then it was weird. It was like the sea parted and I looked down this, this hallway and it was like a moment out of like Baywatch, you know, where they're in the Bay, or maybe it was just in my mind or whatever. But I saw that hat come, come.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  I saw it come down the aisle way and I was like, um, there, there she is. I was like, wow, you know, and I didn't see her outfit yet, but I, we were, she was getting closer to me or whatever. And people were just like mobbing her and stuff and she stopped and I literally got my camera out and I zoomed in to see like, you know, what I could see. And, um, cause I had forgotten what my job was after I saw.

• 30:47Bunnie XO?

  I mean, I would too. I would too. If I saw Anna Nicole coming towards me.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, um, so anyway, so she came closer and she had on this pink and kind of like low cut dress and these gloves and she looked kind of like a debutante, like, you know, like her big hat and she was playing, you know, the part and I, I, it was just, um, not to overplay it or kind of overemphasize it because I've said it before, like the previous night, the energy was different.

• 31:16Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  It was like, oh, it was like, she was just kind of like, it was just like rolling off of her good aura, you know, and people wanted just to be, and I mean, like.

• 31:25Bunnie XO?

  The stars were aligning for you guys, that perfect storm. And then also she was on momentum from all the, you know, stuff that she was doing.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  But she, um, you know, she, she was still shooting her show at the time and I think maybe her show, possibly the series could have ended, but she was shooting specials. And so this was part of a special that was rolled into like her makeover special. Um, she went up and cussed out the disc jockey, Howard Stern in the same episode and then she comes to the derby, you know, so.

• 32:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Just so we can, for people who are listening, when we talk about her attorney, Howard K. Stern, it is not Howard Stern, the disc jockey.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  No, not at all. And, and Howard Stern, the disc jockey will be quick to tell you that it's not me. He's like, no, no, no.

• 32:14Bunnie XO?

  I'll actually see him on Tuesday or Monday. I'm sitting down for an interview with him. So I'm excited. Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  So, um, I lost my thought.

• 32:22Bunnie XO?

  So you were talking about how the sea parted and she just had this energy exuding off of her.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. So she, um, it was just weird, like people autographs, pictures, and she never said no, not to one person. So it took her forever to get down this hallway where she was. And then there was, there were rows of tables, um, and. She sat down at this table and I had, um, there were some seats that were missing. I really wasn't supposed to be sitting down, but I was talking to people and I was tired. So eventually after she made her way and there was all this hubbub and you know,

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Kid Rock was on one side yelling at her about her cameras, turn off your effing cameras. And she was yelling back and he's like, your bodyguard's overdressed. And he's, she's like, uh, and she's like, you know, screaming back at him and they got into it.

• 33:14Bunnie XO?

  But it was like- Good to see old Bob hasn't changed.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  But it's, it's weird, but it was making good stuff for her TV show.

• 33:21Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  And along with just crazy stuff was happening, she was getting up. And by that time she started having a few drinks.

• 33:27Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  And there were tequila trays coming and all this stuff. I looked over at one point and like, some girl was like doing a shot off of her chest.

• 33:35Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  You know, like, and of course I got a picture of that too, you know? And, uh, it just so happened to be, and, um, but during all that, she, I, I spoke to her again. And, um, I was sitting at the table behind her, she had her back turned to me. Her son, Daniel was there, they was kinda neat to watch the two of them. And, um, they were, you know, she was helping him pick horses and things and to vet on and,

• 34:02Speaker 01

  and just a lot of chaos and noise. And, um, she reaches behind the table and she grabs my, she puts her hand out and she's got this gigantic like diamond rock on these, over top of these pink gloves. And she was like, you know, and it was like blinding me and she's like grabbing my hand. She goes, come here, come here. And, um, I got up and she got up and then she starts squeezing on my butt. And I'm like, my face turned beet red because when I looked up, I had three reality show cameras pointed at me.

• 34:32Bunnie XO?

  Right. And I mean, she was in the crack.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:35Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I've seen the video.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Oh, sure. Have you seen it?

• 34:37Bunnie XO?

  I've seen the video, like, yeah, it's like how I wish Jay would let me rub his butt. All right, I mean- She was groping you.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Actually, my daughter saw that and she said it was cringe.

• 34:50Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  But, um, yeah, so I said something stupid like, there's nothing back there to grab or anything I could think of just because I was like so embarrassed, you know? And, um, so she was just having fun and, you know, at the time I said, uh, last year you were here and you gave me a kiss on my cheek or something. I don't, something stupid I said. And I go, my girlfriend wiped it off because she was mad. She goes, oh, come here, we'll do it again. She goes, I need a picture of this. And she turns and she tells people to take the pictures of us, you know? And so she starts kissing me and like, and her bodyguard's sitting there, you know, like this. He's got like one of those Janet Jackson headsets on.

• 35:31Bunnie XO?

  Was it Mo? Did she have Mo at the time?

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's a whole nother thing, but yeah, yeah. So he was there and like, you know, and I was like, I was like, I wasn't worried about anything, but I was like, at the same time, I'm like, I did have a job to do, you know?

• 35:43Bunnie XO?

  Right. I mean, but you're literally getting groped and just, um, immersed in Anna Nicole. So, I mean, at that time, I can understand why you wouldn't want to do your job.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was definitely a, a different day at work that day, but, um.

• 35:58Bunnie XO?

  Did you have the same girlfriend at this time?

• 36:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 36:00Bunnie XO?

  Okay.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  No, and, and, uh, didn't mean I didn't call her and tell her that I got another kiss.

• 36:08Bunnie XO?

  Just twist it a little bit more.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Give me that kiss you wiped off last year. I got another one. I got more this year than that one. But, uh, no, but like, so after that, um, you know, that my pictures came out. It was like another, I wrote another article for USA Today, different magazines and stuff.

• 36:23Bunnie XO?

  Well, wait, how does that night end? She's rubbing your butt.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  Well, honestly, so.

• 36:27Bunnie XO?

  She kissed you again.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  I, I was, it was weird because I, I am so, I am so shy when it comes to like that. I'm not, I'm really an introvert. Never in a million years would I think I have the courage to even talk to Anna Nicole. I wasn't really going to ask her on a date or anything, but in a way I kind of did. I was like, hey, so some, and this is all captured on video. I was embarrassed about it later when I see it, you know, today. Because I was so cheesy.

• 36:51Bunnie XO?

  You were shooting your shot, baby.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  And I was like, you know, hey, some friends are going down to whatever club and, you know, do you, if you think you want to go? And she's like, yeah, yeah, you know? But it was kind of like, I didn't, I didn't want to like be pushy. I didn't know like what was going on. I really, you know, like I said, confidence wise, I didn't read a bunch into it. And I was like, okay, another night. That was fun. That was cool. And, um, I didn't know, you know, if I would ever see her again. And so.

• 37:17Bunnie XO?

  Were you hoping that you saw her again? And did you want something more out of that?

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Honestly, like I, yeah, it's Anna Nicole, you know, but, but again, I still, because I was watching her like, you know, have some girls doing shots off of her with tequila and some guys talking to.

• 37:32Bunnie XO?

  She was working in a room, yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  I, I feel like I was just one of the people that got lucky to be in that kind of orbit, you know? And it was like a fun type of thing. It doesn't mean like, like I still remember it like, wow, and I was like taken back by it, but I, I don't know that I still, with everything considered of how she was acting with everybody, that it, it was like a, anything special.

• 37:52Bunnie XO?

  Right, right. You didn't feel.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  So I.

• 37:54Bunnie XO?

  That goes back to your confidence, though.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, what do you say? I'm working on it. I'm working on it. We'll talk about.

• 38:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  But at the same time, I like the, the, the, the pictures came out from that and like, you know, and, it was positive stuff for Anna, like, you know, how great she looked and it, and I think, her attorney saw it, took note of it. And I, I got a call from him and said, hey, Anna's going to be at this kids camp for charity for kids that are impacted by HIV. And would you mind coming and taking pictures? And I was like, sure, you know, and I literally.

• 38:33Bunnie XO?

  Do you think that was Anna having him call you?

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I, I don't know. Honestly, I know, I don't really know. I, I know that his job was amongst many things, you know? Her attorney, you know, he kind of was her publicist manager, everything was to kind of keep things going for her. And I think because she had always gotten a negative, not always, but a lot of the times got negative press.

• 38:54Bunnie XO?

  Right. And so what you were doing for her was giving her positive.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  I, I, I want to think that's probably why I got the call. And so like, I literally, started throwing things in my bag, you know, when I got the calls, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And, you know, took off to Nebraska and.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Met the whole crew and she had an entourage there. Her assistant was there, her son was there, her dogs were there. She's back on the bus again. She had some other people there, you know, floating around. And I, um, I was watching her that week because it wasn't like the, the diamonds, all the makeup. It was really like a stripped down version of her.

• 39:31Bunnie XO?

  Which I think was the most beautiful version of her.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really was. It was like, uh, I was like, wow, when I saw her with no makeup on, I was like, how can you get prettier? You know, it's, it happens. It's like, you know, I don't mean that in any disrespectful way.

• 39:47Bunnie XO?

  No, I get it. I'm the complete opposite. I look like a walrus when I don't have my face painted on. No, she, Anna was like, I'm telling you, when she didn't have makeup on, she was so gorgeous.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  It, it was just, it was kind of refreshing to see because we were kind of in the sticks somewhere. Uh, I went through cornfields like for hours just to get wherever I was. And all these kids were like, you know, um, you know, around this circle and she was meeting these kids. And I don't even know if any of the kids actually knew who she was, you know, because they were so young or whatever. I think by the end they all knew who she was because there was just a ton of hijinks that happened. But like, um, but watching her in those moments, spend time with these kids. And she started getting attached to like a lot of these kids and she, she, um, would want to spend time and, and, um, she would get contact numbers for them and stuff. And it was just such a different type of Anna. If I were writing that story, which I did write

• 40:41Speaker 01

  something about it and I took pictures and we were there for like a week. Um, it was, it was kind of like you would never think that that was a headline that would come out from Anna, like her spending time with these kids and stuff. And it was, I really, that was when like not just the derby and how pretty and like kissing and groping, whatever happened with that. It was that moment that I started feeling like, okay, this is, she's, there's something special about her, you know?

• 41:09Bunnie XO?

  So tell me about that week. Personally, work aside, was she happy to see you when you showed up to, when she first saw you and knew that you were there to take pictures? How would, how did she react?

• 41:19Speaker 01

  She, she was really nice. I mean, I didn't know, you know, if she would remember me. I like, I, you know, I didn't know, you know, like I didn't, honestly, like when you're, when you see the volume and amount of people that like she interacts with, I'm sure you guys get it.

• 41:33Bunnie XO?

  My husband, she's a Sagittarius. She was a Sagittarius, right? I believe, December.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  November 28.

• 41:40Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, she's a Sagittarius. My husband's a Sagittarius. They remember everybody's names. They are people. I mean, it is crazy. I, I call my husband a politician. He's not really a politician, but I, he's like, the way that he shakes hands and kisses babies all day long and like, will remember people from 10 years ago. It's wild. And Anna strikes me as the same type, like she might not remember people's names, but she just always makes people feel so welcome.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Everybody felt like they knew her.

• 42:09Bunnie XO?

  Exactly.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  And she was relatable. And I think that's what people gravitated towards her, not just because she was pretty, but also I think because.

• 42:17Bunnie XO?

  She was warm.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  She was, she was, but um, during that week at camp, I mean, I, you know, I don't know if it's just, you know, the way I'm wired or whatever. I, I literally, A was focused on my job, but also I was excited to see her, you know, at the same time. And to be completely honest, like, you know, I'm, you know, at the time I'm, I'm um, making good money, but like, I know I'm going to make good money off of this. You know, this is not, I'm not, you know, the, the pictures, you know, I already had like exclusive.

• 42:46Bunnie XO?

  It's a job. Yeah, for sure.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  It's what I do, you know.

• 42:49Bunnie XO?

  You're like, you're kind of like becoming her personal photographer in this moment.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  It started, it start, it started to feel like that, you know, after this event, during that event and after that event, it started to feel like that, but I um, I just remember just kind of like playing it cool, you know, and because again, she was she was also shooting a special Anna Goes to Camp.

• 43:12Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  So, you know, and there was there were storylines that were kind of like, I don't know if they were preset, but they were in the works and they were, I didn't want to be in the way of it.

• 43:21Bunnie XO?

  Were you also ever scared that you would become a storyline with her too? Was that kind of why you regarded?

• 43:27Speaker 01

  No, you know, the not really, but the first day in journalism school, they tell you, don't, you know, don't become the story, you know, don't, don't, it's hard when you cross that line, you know, so I was trying to be like, because I was still doing written work on her at that time.

• 43:42Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  And, you know, flirting aside or whatever, like I had a story to write. It wasn't like I was doing this hard hitting like 60 Minutes piece. It was a, you know, fluff story for a weekly magazine.

• 43:53Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  But I still wanted to stay, you know, like, you know, neutral and, and, and kind of just observe.

• 43:57Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  And, and so basically that's what I did, but I, I, I remember after the week progressed and there were activities and stuff, she started asking me to do the activities with them. And so like I would put my camera back down and I would like to start repelling and I'd start, you know, you know, they had like a day where they would do a talent contest and she was Whitney Houston and she was like, she had this white dress on and she was going to be like in the bodyguard and then her bodyguard comes in and rushes and saves her. And then the camp told her her dress was too, you know, too low cut and there was a whole thing for the reality show that kind of played into that. But so there was a lot of stuff going on and I just kind of tried to stay out of the way. But since she invited me into that space and she's like, why don't you come in?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  And even though they were filming, I was hesitant shy, I didn't like go out of my way to like start talking to the camp, you know, and, and make myself a presence in it. I just, you know, it was like kind of cool hanging out and doing stuff. And we got to the last night of the camp and it started to wind down. They had activities and they, they reflect on like how the camp changed you. And it was really, it was a, for me, Anna aside, it was like a really kind of moving week to see the kids and how they, it was either kids that were, that had HIV or were impacted by it in some way.

• 45:16Bunnie XO?

  Oh my goodness.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  And.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  That to to have them in a setting where they felt safe and to watch, you know, Anna interact with them and how she was doing, it was a weird, it was a, it was a cool thing. And I think in my mind, she got points because I thought, whatever you've heard about this girl previously, you know, this is, this is a little bit different than what you've heard, you know?

• 45:38Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  You know, Anna always was the gold digger, you know, we'd always hear things like out of control, train wreck things. This was so far from that.

• 45:47Bunnie XO?

  Right. Was she sober during these trips that you were on?

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, aside from like, well, up to this point, yeah, she, I mean, I'd only seen her like a few times, but the camp's stone cold sober.

• 46:01Bunnie XO?

  Okay.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  And like, there was no drinking allowed at the camp. I mean, she was like, I mean, she was digging in, doing art and painting and like, I mean, and it was enough to, you could see it was kind of exhausting her, like she worked herself up, even though she was filming and doing some, I felt like she still, it was just special. It was hard to explain. But after that, we left, we went to a retirement center and where she started just talking to all these, like the old people in the retirement center and she brought her dogs and was to pass them around. And that part wasn't filmed. So it wasn't like this was a setup for something. It was like some just random moment, you know, and, and I just remember watching her

• 46:43Speaker 01

  going, wow, you know, like this is something different and something cool. And I was getting my stuff together because they were getting ready to get on the bus. And she was in her room and I came into her room and she was dipping lollipops in pickle juice.

• 47:00Bunnie XO?

  Oh.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  And like, and I go, what are you doing? She goes, having some pickle pops. I go, what? She goes, pickle pops. I'm like, oh, okay. Sounds like I've never heard of that. She goes, why don't you try one? And I'm like, all right. And you know, so I was trying one and her attorney's buzzing around and like people are trying to get all of her assistants trying to pack her stuff up, dogs are barking and, and. She's signing some autographs for people to give to him before she leaves as you know, kind of a parting thing and you know, and I was like eating this pickle juice something or whatever.

• 47:32Bunnie XO?

  How did it taste?

• 47:34Speaker 01

  You know, that at first wasn't great, but then she, she decided she wanted to play a game with the pickle pops. So she put her pickle pop in her mouth and she told me to twist it in my mouth. So we were playing like spin the bottle with a lollipop.

• 47:48Bunnie XO?

  Oh.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  So it was just like, she was kind of a kid at heart.

• 47:52Bunnie XO?

  She's very childlike.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and out of that, the pop dropped and then of course there was some, a couple more kisses and stuff. And then, you know, I was getting, and then I got a couple little bad looks over my shoulder from, you know, like, you know, the entourage, like, oh my God, what is, you know, that guy doing? Get him out of here, whatever. And so I didn't want to wear my welcome out. And I was like, you know, thank you so much for this opportunity and I appreciate it. And I'm, you know, I'm going to turn this stuff in and I think you'll like it. What you did with this week was great. And, and she was leaving and she goes, here, let me write you one of these. And she wrote to Larry. And I was like, trying to figure out what she, right? And I was like, and she hands me this. It's like her,

• 48:39Speaker 01

  an eight by 10, like glossy promo shot of her Trim Spa stuff with like a, she's like basically shirtless with a towel holding up to her and like, and I read it and it says, to Larry, my pickly pop. And I'm like, P I C K L. It was spelled wrong. It's like, and it was like, I was like, all right. And then below that it said, love Anna Nicole. And I was like, I was like, oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I'm like, I'm going to put that in my room. And you know, it's like, still embarrassed and not even know what to say. And it was like, we were like, Eighteen years old.

• 49:17Bunnie XO?

  Like, yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Like, that's how we were maneuvering through this, you know?

• 49:20Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  And, um, so basically she gives me this and I, and I said, well, you know, hope to hear from you sometime. And if there's anything else coming up. She goes, oh, hold on a second. And she sticks the sharpie and she starts writing these numbers down. And she wrote her number on the, the picture.

• 49:35Bunnie XO?

  Oh.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  And I was like, what's that? And she's like, I was trying to play dumb. I was like, what's that? And she's like, my number. And I'm like, oh, I'm sure it's the wrong number. She goes, well, call it dummy. So I called it and of course it's ringing right there. And so she's like, and she goes, well, now I got your number, huh? And so like, and I was like, yeah. And, um, again, you know, I went home, did my thing. So my story came out.

• 49:56Bunnie XO?

  Okay, hold on though. So you're wa- you walk out of this room. You have Anna Nicole's number. How are you feeling in that moment?

• 50:04Speaker 01

  You know, honestly, I, it, the whole week was such, kind of crazy and, and emotional with the kids. And, um, you know, and it was, it was a contrast from the Derby, which was crazy. And this was kind of like low key, but like still things were going on. And, um, I, I, I don't know. I, I might be just dumb. I just, I was, I did, I still thought it was cool.

• 50:28Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  And I, I thought I liked this girl, you know, but I did.

• 50:31Bunnie XO?

  So you weren't sending any you up texts at two eight, eight, two o'clock in the morning or anything?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  No, because honestly, I, it, I, I went home and I, I was scared to call it. Cause I thought maybe she just kind of felt guilty about, and gave me the number.

• 50:43Bunnie XO?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  You know, I feel, I, I just feel like I wasn't entitled to it. You know? And I still felt like part of me was like, not that I was working for her, but I had just done this story and things. And I was like, this is, I was in my head thinking, you know, that my journalism teacher was talking, saying, you know, blah, blah, blah. Don't blur the lines.

• 51:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  So anyways, it was, it was fine, but I, I left, I went home and, um, um, I was literally little ways down the road. And I get this call from Anna and she's like, do you want to go out to California? And work on some calendars and some photos for me? I'm want to jumpstart my store. And I'm like, Sure, you know what, when? And she's like, right now. So literally, I wound it up going straight from there. I said, well, I said, listen, I've got to go home, but I definitely want to do this. And I went home and I said, can you give me, when will you guys be in town? And she's like, well, it'll take us a few days to get there with the bus.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  Went home, she calls and she's like, there's something has come up. I need you to go to Vegas. So I wound up getting rerouted to Vegas. There she had a party out there. And after all that, I wound up going back to her house from all that. And so it was like, it was like this whirlwind thing that I didn't know what was happening, to be honest.

• 52:06Bunnie XO?

  So let's pause right there because I want to ask a couple of questions. Um, being around her crew and seeing how they all interacted and stuff like that. What was the vibe that you got from like Howard K. Stern and just her crew that she had around, around her? Did it feel like they were very enabling? Did it feel like they were controlling? Or at this point in time in the story, was it kind of like copasthetic?

• 52:34Speaker 01

  You know, still at this time, it was kind of so early that I, I was, you know, I, I was kind of getting used to what the hierarchy was.

• 52:44Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  And, and, and knowing that like who did what and what was expected of this person. I think that, um, I don't know that the beginning that I got the idea that anybody was controlling her. I think that people were, um, a lot of people were telling her things like,

• 53:05Speaker 01

  yes, answers to everything.

• 53:07Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Like, you know, yes, men and, you know, oh, you know, should I do this job? Yes, you know, this is going to be great for your career. Do this.

• 53:14Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  And it was like a lot of advice that she was getting from people. There was also like, you know, um, a lot of people jockeying for her attention.

• 53:23Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  You know, all the time and everybody honestly that, um, That was around her, I felt like had a different interest.

• 53:30Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  You know?

• 53:31Bunnie XO?

  Somebody is, somebody, it was just different ulterior motives all around.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't, and I don't mean that always really in a negative way.

• 53:38Bunnie XO?

  Right, right.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Somebody could be like in love with her or obsessed with her, or they could be in a, and, or just dedicated to her.

• 53:46Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  You know, but she had people at her beck and call.

• 53:49Bunnie XO?

  Do you feel like Howard K. Stern was one of the people who was obsessed with her and in love with her?

• 53:56Speaker 01

  At first, I didn't think that because I knew what she told me about him. But it wasn't until, um, I didn't get a feel for any of this stuff, like in detail where I started making like,

• 54:12Speaker 01

  mental notes of like what people's agendas were, what they thought about different things until I actually came to her house with her. She said, come on, and I brought some of my stuff out. I did, I still had a place back home. I didn't like get rid of my stuff. I wasn't moving in. I was just coming out there to work on the calendar.

• 54:30Bunnie XO?

  So this was the first night that you guys had spent together where we paused?

• 54:33Speaker 01

  The first time that we were in, um, in Los Angeles and together, yeah.

• 54:38Bunnie XO?

  So take me, take me on that journey, the first night you guys are together, and then we'll kind of intertwine it with what you learned by being in her house.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Well, the first, backing up in that, that trip in Vegas was one of the first times that we were together together. I had actually, um, you know, the fastest version of it is, is that I actually.

• 54:56Bunnie XO?

  We don't want the fastest version, Larry. We do not want the fastest version.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  So actually, I was, to get ready to go to that trip that put me to Vegas to meet her, I actually fell in the bathroom and I like hurt my back in Kentucky and I didn't think I was gonna make it.

• 55:11Bunnie XO?

  Oh, no.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  I was literally getting ready to cancel the trip.

• 55:15Bunnie XO?

  How did you fall in the bathroom?

• 55:16Speaker 01

  I was running into the bathroom, slid in some water or something and, and just fell down straight on my back and crashed. And I was like, okay, this is, it's over.

• 55:24Bunnie XO?

  Larry, poor baby. You're just having a rough go over here.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  So I, I, I, um, I got, I was like, I'm gonna cancel. No, I'm gonna try to do this. So I got on the plane. I went. I get to the hotel in Vegas. They were at the Hard Rock in Vegas and, um, I, I let her assistant know that I'm there, come up to this room or whatever I was told. I got a, you know, I'm having a suitcase or whatever. And I get there and, um, I go down this hallway and it's like this gigantic suite or whatever and

• 56:00Speaker 01

  I get to the back room and Anna's in this bed. She's in the bed watching like Nightmare on Elm Street or something, you know, it's like, it was like a scary movie. She's like, oh, hi. And like literally, cause I see things like from a photography standpoint.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  She, that she was in a totally white bed with white sheets, pillows and everything. And all you saw was her face, like in all of that. So in my mind, I was framing up a shot, but I, I remember it clearly because I was like,

• 56:30Speaker 01

  you know, and, and without thinking for a millisecond, I'm like, wow, I'm in Anna Nicole's bedroom, like where she's at. And um, she saw me kind of walking away with my suitcase and she's like, what's wrong? I go, I'm sorry. I have like, I, I hurt my back and oh, you know, she's like, um, can we get something for him for his back? And I don't know, they gave me some, I don't know what it was, but I, I conked out for like, well, I was getting sleepy.

• 56:54Bunnie XO?

  Oh, so they just handed you a pill and you were like, did any question?

• 56:57Speaker 01

  I don't think it was like anything like major, like I, I don't know really what, really remember what it was, but like, anyway, I was like, go get him something for his back. And I'm like, she's like, let me call a massage, a masseuse up here for you or whatever. And I was like, what's going on right now? I'm like, where am I supposed to put like, can I take this to my room first? She goes, oh, just sit it over here. And I go, where? She goes, by the bed. And I was like, oh, okay. So I was like, I put my suitcase down. The next thing I know, someone's knocking at the door. There's like this lady coming to give me a massage. I'm like, like trying to figure out like, she's like, well, just take your clothes off and come in here. And I'm like, so I'm like going back in the room and I'm like, I go, um, okay. And I'm like, I'm like,

• 57:38Bunnie XO?

  You notice Larry doesn't say no to anything.

• 57:43Bunnie XO?

  He's like not questioning anything. He's like, you know what? We're just gonna go with it.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  So I, I literally, um, I was literally gonna take my pants off and I was, I paused for a second. I turned around and I'm like, oh shit, there she is in the bed. She's like, it's okay. I like small penises. You can take your pants off. I'm like, what?

• 58:02Bunnie XO?

  Sounds like a challenge to me.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:04Bunnie XO?

  To challenge you. She sounds like she was a ball buster.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And um, so after that massage over, whatever, and like, I literally conked out, went to sleep and I woke up. It was like the next morning, Anna's still watching Freddy Krueger movies.

• 58:16Bunnie XO?

  Okay, who passes out in bed next to Anna Nicole?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's some, that's what I'm saying. Like say, I don't know if it was something that I, when I took it, I passed out.

• 58:25Bunnie XO?

  Right. Or you were just so exhausted from the travel.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Like, I literally couldn't move my back. Like, literally, if she wanted to do anything, I would probably be like. Like, it was probably better to, like, nothing happened that night.

• 58:38Bunnie XO?

  How did the back feel in the morning?

• 58:39Speaker 01

  It was, I was actually feeling better, but I had problems with it for a while. So after that happened, um, they were getting.

• 58:45Bunnie XO?

  She was still watching.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  When I woke up, she was still watching Freddy Krueger. And like, it was like, I think she was on like the third or fourth trilogy, or something like the movie or something.

• 58:53Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, and she's like, how's your back feeling? And I was like, I was like, what the, where the fuck am I? Like, where am I? Like, I feel like I was in a dream or something. Like, I look back and I'm like, um, but I, you know, and again, it was like.

• 59:09Bunnie XO?

  I love that she laid next to you, though, while you were sleeping.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  And, um, and there was knocks at the door. It was really chaotic. It wasn't like, even though we were in that room together, dogs were being handed to her, your dog wants to see you. And like, what did they say that? Or did you, it's like, hey, you know, it was like, but, you know, and the people, here's your food. And like, the dog, room service were coming for the dog. And she's like, can you sign that bill for the dogs? And I'm like, looking at the thing, I'm like, $800 for like steaks for the dogs to, and like bottles of like special water and stuff. And I'm like, I felt like I was in like, like I fell down like a rabbit hole or something. Like, I didn't know where I was.

• 59:46Bunnie XO?

  Acid trip.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, um, so anyway, like, you know, she, she had an event to do. I photographed that. She, we, we, um, that's when she asked me, like, hey, do you want to come back to the house? And so I went back to the house.

• 1:00:00Bunnie XO?

  So when you woke up, did you guys make out? Was there any hanky panky? Like, when was the first?

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Not really, because after she woke up that morning, there were, that's when like people knocking on the door, people were coming in for fittings. There were people doing her hair, makeup, you know, and all that stuff. And I really kind of felt like, um, when her assistant and some people came back in the, in the room, I was like, I felt like, um,

• 1:00:25Bunnie XO?

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• 1:01:09Bunnie XO?

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• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  I just got a different feeling, like I don't know if they want me to be here.

• 1:02:40Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  So I don't know that I, so I was trying to like be respectful that she had a job to do. At the same time, like, you know, I'm just stupid me. I'm like, okay, you know, let's move on to the next stuff.

• 1:02:53Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Nothing really crazy happened until like, she's like, you do want to go back to my house? And I'm like, sure. And so.

• 1:03:03Bunnie XO?

  Larry's got long game.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  We got not actually, no, I don't. That's why this is so this like.

• 1:03:08Bunnie XO?

  I'm totally playing with you.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Part of my life has been from even going back to like breaking into journalism, just being in that right spot.

• 1:03:19Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Some people might say I was on the wrong spot.

• 1:03:21Bunnie XO?

  No, but I think your intentions are pure and that's why you end up in these situations because you don't have an evil spirit about it. Like you really just want to love people and you know, show them in a good light. You're not trying to show these people in a negative light. And I think that that, you know, God and the universe has placed you in these people's lives for a reason.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Thank you. I appreciate that. I, but I'm still, you know, like I'm, I'm, we, we took the bus back and.

• 1:03:49Bunnie XO?

  This is still in California, right?

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  We're in Vegas and we're going back on this bus.

• 1:03:52Bunnie XO?

  Gotcha.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  And this trim spa bus and stuff. And so it has all these bunks in it, you know, side to side and you know,

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  and there's like a room in the back and I grabbed one of the lower bunks and they said, you can take that one or whatever. And.

• 1:04:07Bunnie XO?

  Not the low bunk on the, on the ground.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  It wasn't the low.

• 1:04:10Bunnie XO?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  I mean, that's probably where I deserved to be because I was like the low man on the totem pole as far as like the, the group.

• 1:04:16Bunnie XO?

  I was like, they did you wrong if they put you on the bottom bunk.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  I was kind of like, I remember I was up like in the middle and then I, Anna was getting her stuff and of course she was always being briefed on stuff like tomorrow we're doing this, tomorrow we're doing that. And like people were coming in and I was kind of like trying to stay out of it and stuff. And again, I still felt like I didn't earn my place on the bus. I don't know if that's just.

• 1:04:36Bunnie XO?

  No, I get it. I understand that.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  And I, I, I was kind of like, I remember closing the curtains and I was like, like trying to like, I was watching a movie in front of me that was on the bus and and finally I was like, what's going on here? Like I still was in kind of disbelief that this was happening.

• 1:04:53Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  But I wasn't like, because I'd been and I'd covered celebrities and stuff. I'd never had this situation. I, I, I think it helped me like deal with what I was, I wasn't like, oh my God, I'm like, you know, I'm.

• 1:05:04Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  So it was like, I was real kind of cool, probably not as cool as I was, you know, trying to act, but, but. You know, I woke up in the middle of the night and the bus is all jumping and stuff and you know, and I opened my curtain and I look across and Anna's in one of the bunks across the way and I'm like, wait, I thought, you know, she stays in the back, you know, and she's watching a movie and stuff and she's like, she just starts talking to me and stuff. And I was like in the middle of a text and stuff and she's like, who are you texting? And I'm like, oh, just back home to tell, you know, this girl to watch my stuff. What's, she got a girlfriend? What's her name? You know, what's, she was like getting involved in my story and I was like, oh, no, not really. She's just a friend, you know, watching my apartment while I'm gone and, you know, and she's like,

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  oh, cool. Okay. Okay. You know, but I could tell she was kind of like, you know, it was kind of weird, you know?

• 1:05:53Bunnie XO?

  She was feeling you out.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think. And I was like, so I was like, um, you know, we were just talking and stuff and had like, talk about, we were like talking over like, um, stuff from like, you know, childhood and different things, not, not deep stuff. It was kind of like surfacey stuff like, you know, and I didn't really ask her too much about her. So she was kind of asking me, you know, about my family and different things. And I was like telling her and just like little conversation. And, um, you know, that happened, nothing really major. We get to LA and she lived in Studio City. And the bus wouldn't go up her hill or canyon or where she lived. And so we stopped in this parking lot. And I remember getting out of that bus and thinking, are they going to blindfold me now? Like in not where I don't know where I'm going to like

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  the Bat Cave, you know, like, you know, and it was, I had that weird, just kind of like, you know, feeling.

• 1:06:44Bunnie XO?

  I saw it when you walked in here. You're very suspicious. Like you, like you like to know what you're walking into.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I, I, well, part of it's probably PTSD and like stuff from like just crazy stuff happening from my situation. But yeah, I do like to kind of like, and I'm always scanning when my daughter's with me, like, um, I, like a security guard. Like I scan around.

• 1:07:07Bunnie XO?

  Oh, you have to. Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  And I know the people that want to take pictures. I know the people, it's, I think because I'm ADD, but I'm also, uh, I feel like I'm a little bit semi-intuitive because they say people that are ADD, you know, they have high heightened, you know, um, senses.

• 1:07:23Bunnie XO?

  Awareness.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  And I feel like that I um, read the room a lot. And I can tell BS when I see it.

• 1:07:29Bunnie XO?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  I can tell all the liars. I, I, I mean, I, and so I do, I kind of scan ahead, but I, I was in this moment, I was still kind of like the new kid on the block, you know, and feel like I didn't deserve to be there. And um,

• 1:07:44Bunnie XO?

  Still kind of wondering why you are there too, I'm sure.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  I mean, I, you know, I, I had planned on going home, it didn't happen. So, you know, I'm, now I'm in, in Los Angeles at Anna's house. And um, so we get into the house and um, and I'm, I'm thinking, I've seen this house on the reality show. I, I, you know, and we were, we would sit back on, you know, Sundays or whenever it came on and we would laugh at it, you know, the show and we would hear some of the crazy shit she did and you know, and like, and, you know, and, and um, it, it was, you know, it was just like you saw on television. But there were actually, it's like the studio is, there's like working lights still set up. So like, if you go under like a catwalk and there, there's like strips of light and there's cords and different stuff.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  So like, you kind of felt like you walked onto a hot set, but you were like in her house.

• 1:08:35Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  You know, and, and I was like, okay, this is different, but whatever. And who am I to say anything, you know? And um, we were up in this canyon, I remember, and I remember thinking, I mean, this is nice, this is a cool house and you know, whatever. And I was nervous still like, you know, and I, cause it was kind of like, when the door opened for me to come in, that everybody's demeanor dropped. You know, not Anna's, but everybody else, I felt like the, the mood was flat. Um, and I was like, okay. And then Anna was telling her assistant, go do this, get Larry, show Larry this and whatever. So,

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Anna's room is upstairs.

• 1:09:14Bunnie XO?

  Just to pause you right there, do you think they did it because they were jealous of Anna's attention going to you?

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, honestly, at that point, I didn't know. I knew that, and I'm friends now, and we can talk about that later, with all these people. But in that moment, I felt like they might have felt like they were threatened because I was getting the attention from her that they wanted.

• 1:09:38Bunnie XO?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  And I felt like that maybe, it was just awkward, you know?

• 1:09:46Bunnie XO?

  You're the new guy, so they were probably, you know, like, you know, what's going on with the situation? Trying to figure you out.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  So I remember taking my suitcase and I was going upstairs and there's three, an office and two bedrooms upstairs. Downstairs was Daniel's room, the lowest level, and a art room. And they kind of showed me around or whatever. So I'm looking around at the time that they're showing me going, well, where the fuck am I gonna sleep? You know, like going thinking, you know, like, I don't see a bedroom that's open.

• 1:10:16Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  And I'm like, my back's still fucked up and I don't know about the couch, but I'm like, I guess I do what I have, I'm told to do, you know?

• 1:10:23Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  So I get upstairs with her and she, she shows me, you know, this is my room, this is a, and I, you know, and we've, did you watch her show?

• 1:10:33Bunnie XO?

  Of course.

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  Okay, so remember when she had the big, the pink and white fluffy wall and I think, you know, a decorator did it for her at the show and stuff? So, and there was like clouds on the ceiling with penises in the clouds and like all this weird stuff.

• 1:10:49Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Speaker 01

  And then there's this gigantic pop art painting of like her oil husband on one side and there's like all this stuff. Dogs are barking, yapping, you know, and stuff just hung everywhere, clothes and, and a real chaotic time, you know, when we first entered there and I was like, she's like, you could put your stuff in the office. And I was like, okay, I'm going to the office. She goes, but, you know, but you can stay in here. And I go, well, first I went in and I said,

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  is, is there like a thing I can put on the floor for, there's like, because there's a desk in there. It wasn't that big. And my suitcase was in there, but she also had extra clothes in there too. There was clothes everywhere, like racks and racks and racks. So I was like, okay, maybe this is where I'm gonna stay. So I want to be respectful and I was like, you know, I was like, you know, is there something I put on the floor for?

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  No. And Anna said, no, you're gonna stay in here with me. I was like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, okay. And, uh, yeah, so I, that's where I went. And so, um, she was territorial about her closet. And I guess a lot of women, you know,

• 1:11:56Bunnie XO?

  I was like, I get it.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  So my, my stuff was put in one room, but I was allowed to stay in her room with her. And, um, so I, you know, it was one of those things where, um, I, you know, I still was kind of a little bit disbelief and I was honestly nervous, to be honest. Because if you think about, um, Anna Nicole and like everything she was and, and, you know, and seeing her all this time. And not like that I was like obsessed with her, like growing up or whatever. I knew I was aware of her. And I thought she was like this beautiful, just like Pam Anderson, all these other women, just like her. And, um, I, but I, I, I don't know that, um, I didn't, I still,

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  I, I don't even know, you may think I'm the dumbest person in the world. I still honestly thought she wanted to hang out and I, I know she was being flirty and I'm not stupid. But like, at the same time, I didn't wanna, I didn't know her enough to know where she was coming from.

• 1:12:53Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  You know, I'm not stupid. I know, like you get, you're invited to the bedroom, but also I was nervous. There were so many different emotions going on. I was trying to be like,

• 1:13:01Bunnie XO?

  And there was so much chaos too. So you're like,

• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  I was walking on eggshells, like, you know, in the house, kinda,

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  her dog was, Sugar Pie was like snapping at my ankles and like attacking me, you know, it was like, you know, and, and, but anyway, so like, things kinda settled in and, and, um, we just started talking and like, kinda like connecting. And, and I learned a lot about her in, in those next few days, like, you know, and, but she still, as forward as she was out in public and like grabbing on me and stuff, she didn't give the same vibe off where we were in that moment. So like, it wasn't like, I, I thought, well, maybe I've done something wrong or maybe I'm like, not like, maybe she doesn't like me. Maybe, you know, I don't know, you know?

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  So, um, but she wanted to talk a lot and she wanted to sit up and like, watch TV and like, paint stuff and do like, Crafts and like it was really weird. I'm like, okay, so I'm playing along.

• 1:14:04Bunnie XO?

  You're in bed fucking doing arts and crafts.

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  I still have a stack of paintings to this day from that.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it it uh it was just like I I felt like I was having fun like she was almost kind of honestly though. I felt like um in that room, the oil man's picture and there was one on the on the dresser. And she started talking about him and she started getting emotional about it. And to where I felt like there was something there that she hadn't let go of yet, like that she wasn't like even interested in in anything else from me. I thought, you know, she's saying she's saying one thing, she might be doing another. But then you see this real emotion from her about like how she felt about this man.

• 1:14:54Bunnie XO?

  And we're talking about her ex husband.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Bunnie XO?

  He had already passed by then.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  He had passed in the 90s, I believe. And he um, you know, was this crazy rich oil man. And then she was fighting forever, you know, for for his estate to get what she said he promised her. And that was going on and on and on. And she had talked a little bit about that. I didn't get into too much because here's the problem. You know, when I um first came to her house, she um, you know, there was there was um. She was quick to let me know I was a member of the press. And that in her head, she couldn't get past that in a sense.

• 1:15:34Bunnie XO?

  So she was kind of scared.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  A little skeptical, like I think she liked me and she knew she she saw I had good qualities, I think. I don't know. But I think that she would and maybe it was a jab or something. She's like, oh, yeah, she goes, you know, you're you're a photographer. You're a reporter. Uh, I gotta be careful what I say around you. And I'm like, no, you don't. And it took me a while to get over that hump of building that trust up with her. And I saw things, a lot of crazy stuff. I witnessed stuff in the house that just, and I also was privy to things that weren't like as crazy, but things that I'm sure any magazine would print if I wanted to talk about it.

• 1:16:13Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  You know, and I, and I felt like it was a test. I was having to pass or something.

• 1:16:19Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  And I felt like-

• 1:16:20Bunnie XO?

  Which rightfully so on her part because, you know, she couldn't trust anybody.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:16:24Bunnie XO?

  Everybody was, and during that era was trying to just have a piece of her.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Well, and she had, she had gone, um, um, to your point, she had gone like to hospitals and people had called and said she's in the hospital and then her medical chart was released and then, you know, or she had, you know, stalker ex-boyfriends who came to the, her house with a knife and was gonna, so she had a lot of just crazy stuff happen. Um, she also had a file folder in her house from different people that mailed crazy stuff and then she'd give it to security and they would have to vet it. And so I, like, she was extremely, um, I say paranoid, but also like she-

• 1:17:00Bunnie XO?

  Guarded.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Some, some rightfully so and some a little bit because of her situation made her a little bit more extreme, you know, on the side of paranoia or, or alert, I should say, you know, maybe both.

• 1:17:11Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. In those moments that you guys were having those private conversations, what do you, what is something that you could tell the world was the biggest misunderstanding about her? Because you've actually got to spend one-on-one time with her alone.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  I, I, I think that, um, that in, in many ways that she was kind of misunderstood, you know, about, um, so many things in her life because she projected this persona of, um, of Anna Nicole. And even though I called her Anna Nicole, I never called her any other name, you know, other than Anna Nicole. Um, her legal name was Vicky.

• 1:17:54Bunnie XO?

  Vicky.

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  And so I felt like I was getting to know Vicky, but it was, you know, it was Anna that was when she went out.

• 1:18:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  And as soon as a light came on, as soon as that last, you know, drop of lipstick went on, it was, it was, you know, it was almost like she, it was a different person.

• 1:18:12Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  You know, it was, it was wild, but, um-

• 1:18:15Bunnie XO?

  Well, her idol, Marilyn Monroe, was the same way.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Bunnie XO?

  And I think a lot of women that grow up idolizing Marilyn, you know, you learn how to turn it on.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  And I, I think when she, what, part of what, um, Anna, her-

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  In a way that she was misunderstood. I think her story is a survival story. You know, she was, she was always in survival mode. And I think that what she did with the time she was here on earth is that um she, she was a, she dreamed big, you know, she lived, you know, fast and, and hard in so many ways and, but at the same time, um, she built this um wall around herself and her outlet was to perform for these people, for everybody. And she told me once, she said, I gave myself to Hollywood.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  So she really believed that, you know, they had a lease on her life and that basically that, that's why she signed every autograph, that's why she did what she did. But I think that this, you know, she was renamed Anna Nicole by the founder of Guess after she was in Playboy.

• 1:19:28Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  So that name for her was another outlet to be somebody totally different.

• 1:19:34Bunnie XO?

  Like an alter ego.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  It was. And I think that she went back um and she um was able to feel safe in that moment and get the things that she didn't get. She had a really fractured um childhood, family relationship with all of her, you know, I won't say all, but a lot of her family. Her mom, totally another crazy, you know, situation.

• 1:19:58Bunnie XO?

  Which I would like to touch base on, especially when we start talking about the um You Don't Know Me documentary on Netflix. Um, that is an unauthorized documentary that you actually turned down.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:11Bunnie XO?

  And why did you turn that down?

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Well, the thing about it is, uh, with that, at the time, listen, I have, if I had a dollar for every time somebody called me and said they're gonna do a show about Anna Nicole and we participate, you know, like, you know, there would be no worries, you know, in life. But, but the problem is, is that I had sat back and watched, you know, time after time, um, people.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Kind of do the same show over.

• 1:20:40Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  The same cast of characters. You know, they go back through talk show transcripts of that time when Anna passed. And that was a time when like a lot of different vultures came out and they were rewriting history. People's checks that dried up, they went out and they'd say this or that. One day they'd say one thing, you'd be the greatest person, the next day, you know, you'd be the worst person or, you know, whatever. And the stories kept changing and evolving and nobody was like checking anything and vetting it.

• 1:21:03Bunnie XO?

  Nobody was doing real journalism.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  No, and so what to me was it got a little bit.

• 1:21:09Bunnie XO?

  And you said that it was repetitive, people aren't vetting stories.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, nobody was really, you know, checking into anything like, you know, in a lot of these past projects. And I got tired of seeing the same people and.

• 1:21:22Bunnie XO?

  Can we talk about some of the characters that were in here? You know, at the end, they do bring up her mom.

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Bunnie XO?

  And they do say, because you were just touching base on her mom, so I kind of want to rope that in. Her mom says something in this documentary where she pretty much is shooting down everything that Anna has ever said about her. And saying that Anna said, well, mom, it's Hollywood, this is my life.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Bunnie XO?

  When you talked to Anna about her relationship, what was her with her mother? What was her side of things that she told you?

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  Well, that was one of the things that was a lot of the times early on in the relationship when I went to her house, you know, that was off limits that you didn't talk. She's like, no, no, no, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. But it got to the point where when trust was built up and she started, you know, talking, you know, different things and disclosing things. She would tell me like some really crazy stories about her childhood and having to deal with her mom and things. And they were so crazy that I was like, you know, are these real stories or whatever? But I would see like the fear in her eyes and like the, the emotions that these just telling the stories would invoke, you know, in her. And so I, I didn't ever really push it too far on that, but she, when she brought it up, I would definitely, you know, listen and talk.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  But the story is about.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  Her mom, the fact that, here's the thing with the Netflix to back up. So the problem with the Netflix show was after, you know, seeing a bunch and being disappointed in a lot of the different projects and stuff. They were, they came to me at a time when I was helping my mom through chemo and radiation. And they started coming on really strong and pitching saying, hey, we'd like for you to do this. We'd like for you to do that and stuff. And I said, well, you know what? Right now, it's not really a great time for me, but I'll tell you what I'm gonna do for you. I said, I will tell you and a list, if you want to write down names or whatever, of who the good people are to talk to and who the bad people and who really didn't play a part in her life, who's been on these other things. And that's why I'm leaning towards not doing this.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  And they were like, oh, oh, well, you know, and they got on the phone and a zoom call with this director and they were giving me the pitch that this was gonna be a female director, who would totally give Anna a totally different look about one of the most misunderstood iconic women in pop culture history. And I was like, well, now you got my attention, you know, but I'm still dealing with this personal thing with my mom. And so I said, I just don't know if this is gonna fit right now. And then it was kind of like, well, we can help you with your mom's cancer. We can help you, one of our producers or whatever's connected to a doctors and stuff. And they are the cancer specials. And I was more worried about my mom at the time. So I was like, oh, my God, there's hope for my mom, you know, as I'm pushing her wheelchair,

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  you know, through, you know, radiation and stuff. And I'm like, and she ultimately passed away after this. But like during this, like my focus was laser on her. And I was really juggling, you know, still being a dad and taking Danlin to school and all these things and different things that I was doing for her and trying to keep everything normal there. So it was, it was a combination of things of timing, the right people. And it's just that it just didn't work out. So then they started saying, how much would it cost for us to get you to do this? They knew I had a ton of archives that no one's ever seen. I had like all of Anna's journals that I discovered, I even discovered more recently. And it's like, they were like, wow, wow. And I had like videotapes, audiotapes, and like things that no one has ever heard or seen that would totally.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Show a complete like legacy piece, which was what they were talking about.

• 1:24:56Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  So when I actually said no, and they were playing higher and lower, what would it take for you to do this? And let me just be honest, like the, those things belong to Danny Lynn. So if somebody wants to use those things, I'm not letting them use them without giving her something for them.

• 1:25:10Bunnie XO?

  Absolutely.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Because those are her things.

• 1:25:12Bunnie XO?

  And rightfully so.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  And so why does anybody get to use and, and think they could do that for nothing? So, but I didn't really get into negotiations with them. They said, okay, we're going to go back to Netflix. We're going to do this, we're going to do this, and we're going to come back to you. And I was like, okay. And I never called them, her back from them or anything.

• 1:25:27Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  I think there was like a couple of texts about, you know, um, they came back to me and said, um, it was no longer like, would you participate? It's, um, this director got on the phone, she's like, hello, love. It's, you know, so and so, I'm, want to come over for a spot of tea? And you know, like, it was like, real chummy and stuff. And they were nice at first and stuff, but as I started pushing back and saying, I just don't think this is going to happen. It was weird. I started seeing, um, on, um, Facebook, social media, different things. A couple of people that I had on the no list had posted the fact that they were going to be on the show. One person I didn't have on any list because they didn't really even know Anna that, that, that well, you know? I'd heard the name, but or whatever.

• 1:26:13Speaker 01

  And I went back to the producers and said, this is the reason why I'm not doing your show. This is a clear, you know, here's the receipts, you know, these people are saying they're doing it. So they were like, oh no, this person could talk about this and this person could talk about that. Well, the person I said that person doesn't know Anna, they're like, well, that person could speak to her reality show because they were on one episode. And I was like, okay, is that where we're going with a legacy piece?

• 1:26:35Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, that's a hit piece. That's not a legacy piece.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  So I just, I, I sat back and I was like, okay. You know, and I went back into daily life with my mom and everything I'm doing daily. And I was like, all right. So, um,

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  I guess over time, back and forth, there were a couple of communications. I got a call from an auction company, which we did an early auction of Anna, so a few overflow things of Anna's and did some stuff with charity. And Anna actually had creditors, you know, when she passed away. So the court said, some of the stuff, why don't you just get rid of it and sell it? So we gave them some things that were like, you know, the Bobby Trendy couches from the reality show and, you know, some things. And a lot of fans got a lot of cool things. And it was kind of, it served, you know, a few purposes. But somebody in the production went to the auction company, was asking for how much was made off the auction. And it turned into like, they were investigating me. And I was like, what? You know, like, I didn't make anything, you know, like, and literally, like, I, you know, was disappointed.

• 1:27:33Bunnie XO?

  It just felt gross, right?

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really felt gross. Because I remember, like, I spent like $60,000 on a headstone for Anna in the Bahamas. You know, I think you said you went to, yeah. Like, I had that design in my hometown of Louisville. We flew it on FedEx over to the Bahamas, had a crane, had to lift it off of the truck, down, you know, place it in place. And, you know, when Anna passed away, her house was in, her mortgage was behind. You know, we'll get to like, the Bahamas stuff later, but like,

• 1:28:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, we'll get to all that.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  They turned their back on stuff. And so like, I walked into like, a lot of stuff that like, I had to pay for. So to hear someone say, like, you know, what is this? Or what is that? So they didn't really come out and accuse me of anything. But I was hearing from a lot of different people. Then the show actually hit a bump. That show was announced at one point. And then Pam Anderson's documentary was announced way after that.

• 1:28:21Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  Well, like, you know, fast forward, Pam Anderson's show aired, even though it was announced way after Anna's show. And I was hearing from people that they were having trouble getting people close to Anna to participate.

• 1:28:32Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  So it was kind of like, you know, and so, you know, I didn't think anything else of it. I got a couple of requests from that same director, if I would license them photos of Anna and Daniel and the hospital that were circulated before in the press. And I said, if you can guarantee me that this is the show that you said it was gonna be when you pitched this to me, then I'll think about it. Yeah, let me know. What do you want?

• 1:29:01Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  And I said, she goes, all right, love, have a think on it. I'll get back with you and hung up. I knew then that this show was not going to be the show that they had told me that the show was gonna be. So, I mean, with all that being said, I, I sat back and then it's they started running promos for it. And I saw some of those people that I said, this person shouldn't be this person. Not all of them, but a most, most, a lot of them there shouldn't have been like they had the sister of Howard, the attorney.

• 1:29:30Bunnie XO?

  That was gonna be my next question is like, you know, how? There's so much that we still have to unpack, but you know, how are they gonna have his sister? Like, did he authorize that for her to go on there?

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, I, I, I don't think so. He didn't really know that she was gonna be on there. I think you don't have to, I guess, because it's a document and people are free to do whatever and say whatever, I guess. But like, the thing is, is that it was like an uncle that wasn't close, a person. And they didn't tell that some of these people, like the, the, the situations behind the scenes with these people.

• 1:30:06Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  This person was estranged and hadn't seen her since, you know, whatever. This person, you know, met her a couple of times. It was just kind of like people were given, they were elevated.

• 1:30:15Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  And when I, I started seeing all that come out, I was like, wow. And then I remember the show came out and I didn't really want my daughter to see it. And I was like, because when I saw some of the people, I was like, okay, it's gonna get, probably get ugly, you know, you know, on here. And I was like, I remember sitting back and I watched it one night when she went to bed and I, I, I was like, I was like pretty much frozen. I was like, wow, when it got to different parts.

• 1:30:47Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  You know, and it was, the show was kind of a slow burn. So I was like, sitting there going, okay, okay. And I, in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, selfishly, I'm like, okay, they're gonna get to me next. They're kind of, you know, I'm coming, you know, like it's going chronologically here. And so it's something's coming. But like the show, the problem that I had with the show was for two things. One is Anna's fans reach out to me all the time and there's tons of them all over the place.

• 1:31:10Bunnie XO?

  Oh, still for sure.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  And they still love her and they hold her in high regards. And people know that she wasn't perfect and they, they, they know.

• 1:31:16Bunnie XO?

  That's why people love her though.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think when people were. Literally, they're just waiting for a new photo that no one's ever seen and they all fight over it on Instagram and they start watermark and stamp and that's mine, that's mine, you know? And so like when this came out, people were like, oh my God, there's this new Anna Nicole thing, this is gonna be crazy and, and, um, and they, everybody had high hopes for it. But the problem was, um, the two main problems that I had with the show was that they, they took the, the, um, they, they used the thought that, um, there was a girl who danced with Anna in a, in a club.

• 1:31:54Bunnie XO?

  Missy, right? Was that her name? Yeah, that was gonna be my next question is, she said that she was Anna's assistant, that she was in a sexual relationship with her.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  And here's the thing that I've learned, because I, you know, that I'm sure we'll get to later, but like, I don't wanna ever say that Anna didn't have a relationship with someone that predated me, cause unless she told me otherwise, or I have some kind of written proof or something in her archives. And there's a lot, you know, like in her journals and stuff, but I, I don't wanna take that part away from that girl that said that.

• 1:32:27Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  The problem that I had with what that girl said, and that what the show was totally wrapped around and framed around, was that Anna hijacked her life.

• 1:32:36Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:32:37Speaker 01

  And took every story that was about this girl, the most, you know, crazy nasty, tawdry things that you could think of.

• 1:32:43Bunnie XO?

  She said her childhood, she said that Anna was stealing her childhood story, which I thought was really kinda crazy to say about somebody.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, and honestly, like, um, I, I, I was like, what? First off, I'm like, who's this girl? Cause I've never heard Anna even, you know, she never mentioned her, not that she would mention everybody from her past, but I, I know a lot of the people, you know, from her past, and, and I was like, okay, uh, this is weird, you know? And I was watching as this whole show was framed around, you know, Anna supposedly hijacked this girl's life, and I'm like, it kinda made it sound like kinda like single white female movie, you know?

• 1:33:19Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  And I'm like-

• 1:33:21Bunnie XO?

  To me, it was a bunch of people who were in love with her and obsessed with her, even her own family members.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I'm, that, it's interesting that you say that, I mean, I just, because I'm like, why are these people getting a platform-

• 1:33:31Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  -for this show?

• 1:33:33Bunnie XO?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:34Speaker 01

  And-

• 1:33:35Bunnie XO?

  The brother didn't even seem like he knew anything about her.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Who's that?

• 1:33:37Bunnie XO?

  The, her brother?

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like literally, I think, you know, I, I, I don't wanna like- What I'll say to this, because

• 1:33:44Bunnie XO?

  We don't want to discredit.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Well, I don't want to discredit, but I also want to be sensitive because I know how it feels to be in the shoes of saying that you weren't in a relationship with, you know, Anna, or you didn't do this. So I want to be sensitive to those people.

• 1:33:57Bunnie XO?

  I understand.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  But I will say to you that based on everything that we have in Anna's archives, it paints a totally different picture from what every one of these people are saying.

• 1:34:07Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  And this predates this girl and it postates this girl.

• 1:34:11Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 1:34:11Speaker 01

  So if Anna was, you know, hijacking a story, how can she hijack the story that she wrote years before she met you?

• 1:34:17Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  You know, I have her stuff way back when she's still Vicky.

• 1:34:20Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  I have her school stuff when she was a kid.

• 1:34:22Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Talking about her biggest dreams. I have all kinds of things that like, if I were to have done the show with Netflix, that, um, that it would have been a totally different show, not because I would have tried to like, you know, manage it or whatever.

• 1:34:38Bunnie XO?

  Right, but she's written her own story.

• 1:34:40Speaker 01

  She had, they had the opportunity for her to tell her story herself.

• 1:34:44Bunnie XO?

  Exactly.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  You know, long after she passed and it would have, it was such a unique story because whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Michael Jackson, all this stuff, and all those people left things behind. But the things that Anna left behind, because one, she was a hoarder and two, she, she kept every single thing. I mean, like I have.

• 1:35:01Bunnie XO?

  If you watched the reality show, you knew she was a hoarder.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I mean, and, and, um, it's been my job to kind of be the curator of that stuff for my daughter all these years. And so basically I, I, I've gone through it and I'm still finding stuff. I'll open up like an old purse. You know, Danilyn might say, Dad, that's not in style really, but I, you know, I, you know, I don't want to offend, you know, mom, but.

• 1:35:22Bunnie XO?

  She's so sweet.

• 1:35:22Speaker 01

  You know, and I'm like, honey, it's whatever you want of this stuff, you know, like, so basically like of that stuff.

• 1:35:28Bunnie XO?

  Save it though, because those vintage purses will come and she'll, trust me, she'll want them later on in life.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Well, it's weird because five years ago I asked her questions about storage and it was like, where's Daniel's Pokemon cards? Or, you know, like 10 years ago, you know, that's what she wanted, like the video games. And because his stuff's there too, you know?

• 1:35:43Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 1:35:45Bunnie XO?

  And we'll talk about how you inherited all of that stuff.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:47Bunnie XO?

  Once we get to, you know.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  But anyways, uh, going back like to the Netflix and, and, and that, um.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  The promotion of it, it promised like these bombshell revelations. One of them was the girl Missy who said that basically, you know, Anna hijacked my life. And then they said, and then in the final fourth, you know, quarter of the show, we're gonna have the bombshell of them all that tells why Anna was the way she was. And that was a video of Anna's mom. And the video, like you said, it was like basically Anna saying that she made everything up. And that good stories don't sell as well as bad stories.

• 1:36:25Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  Well, they left out a few things, you know, from that, you know, discussion in the tapes and the promos of that. For starters, that video from her mom, her mom had long passed since after that. Her mom filmed that video in retaliation to Anna being upset that after Anna's son died, her mom came down to the Bahamas and did a bunch of photo ops in the Bahamas.

• 1:36:52Bunnie XO?

  I remember that.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  And it made Anna furious. In fact, there's a whole, there was a whole Entertainment Tonight video that have now been labeled the mommy dearest interviews that Anna comes out and she just tears into her mom. And that's because, and she says, and you came down here and you laid your fat ass on my grave. And, you know, and, you know, I just think that that wasn't like the, the problem between them. There was, there were long problems.

• 1:37:21Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, long childhood trauma.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  But when Anna, when Anna's mom, when Anna, when Anna's son Daniel passed away, Anna, you know, I wasn't around at the time, but I remember when Anna would open up about her family and we had those moments where I felt like it was safe for her and she felt like was safe to talk to me about it. She would long for her mother.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  And she, and I actually tried to play peacemaker and say, hey, why don't you call her? And she would just start shaking, you know, and it wasn't, it wasn't, that wasn't on the table. So I, I would go as far with it as I could. Because for me, like I come in from the South and like we, you know, we, we get together, you know, everybody gets together on, you know, holidays and things. And Anna, I felt like that was a part of her that was missing when I met her. That it was just like she was kind of on autopilot.

• 1:38:18Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, she was trying to create her own family around her.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  She was collecting, like, I felt like I was a part of a collection. You know, like she pulled me into like, you're gonna be this and you're, you know, like she had a role in her mind that everybody was.

• 1:38:31Bunnie XO?

  So in the documentary, they actually say that Anna had sought out, and this is gonna tie back into you guys' relationship, that she had, was seeking a ba-, a father. She wanted to get pregnant.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:45Bunnie XO?

  When you guys, you know, are having these conversations and you guys are getting to know each other and we're on this journey, did you guys talk about having a baby together?

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Oh, sure, sure. So, um, obviously, like, you know, as things became intimate, like, you know, like, we're, I'm literally in her room every day, basically, you know, and we're literally a couple, but I can't tell anybody, you know, and, and, um, you know, and still having the tensions from the outside, you know, outside the room, really, you know?

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Basically, you know, um, we, we talked about having kids. Anna thought it was, um,

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  well, one of the first nights I was with her, she said to me,

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  "I, I think that you were sent here by my husband as an angel to protect me." And I don't know if it was the biggest pickup line in the world, you know, or, or what, but then she was reduced to tears. And it was a time when like, you know, um, you know, I'm pretty, you know, modest for like, it was a time when like, things could have like heated up in the bedroom, but it was like, that stopped that moment because she's crying about her husband.

• 1:40:00Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  So I'm like, it was one of those things that I had to deal with, like, you know, like, you know, and, and,

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  You know, it's like you're rolling around in the bed and you turn this way, you know, like, whoo, you know, like, you know, you, you, you look up and there's a pop art painting of like J. Howard Marshall and you turn over the other way, you know, put your arm around her.

• 1:40:19Bunnie XO?

  That'll get anybody's minds quivering.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  And like you turn around and put your arm around her the other way and you're knocking off like a picture of J. Howard Marshall on a wheelchair where, you know, it's like that's got like, you know, this whole thing on her, like a, this tribute thing on her, her nightstand. So.

• 1:40:33Bunnie XO?

  Do you think she genuinely loved him like romantically or as a girl who was in the industry myself, I had love for men that took me out of terrible situations and like you have a love and a respect for them that is never replaceable. And it's almost like a, I don't want to, it's kind of weird, but it's almost like a father's love that you never got. Do you think that's how it was for her and Mr. Marshall?

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  Honestly, there's so much, you know, like, um, that she said privately that I've got, we're working on some things that are coming up that like are going to come out of that. But I will say to this in, in general, like basically that, um, she, from what I thought about her relationship with him is that, um, and I'm speaking about this from like my perspective.

• 1:41:26Bunnie XO?

  Correct.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  I felt like that I was held to that standard of J. Howard Marshall.

• 1:41:32Bunnie XO?

  No.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  And I felt like that, um, in some ways, not, not the ways that you might think, you know, or maybe so, but like, she felt like that he was a saint and he got her, like you said, out of a situation. So it wasn't like, oh my God, I was lusting over this, you know, 90 year old man.

• 1:41:52Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  It was like, he helped me out of a way.

• 1:41:54Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know that, like, and, and, and you, like, I feel like you can relate to this in so many ways because you know, like, when you, um, like you said, your experiences and things that you've dealt with, but I think she was just trying to survive.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  And this guy comes along and can help you get out of all this stuff.

• 1:42:15Bunnie XO?

  Who saved her?

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  You don't have to take your clothes off. You don't have to talk to these people. You don't have to do, you know, crazy dances, you know, and all this stuff. And, you know, you're literally at, um, you know, Harry Winston's buying jewelry and all this other stuff. And this is a totally different thing for her. And she was getting attention. But she also felt like, I will say this, that she was serving a purpose for him. Because he had lost a previous wife that died and,

• 1:42:38Bunnie XO?

  Right. She was bringing him happiness. It was an even trade.

• 1:42:41Speaker 01

  And I, I, I think that it was, um, a mutual thing. I think it was, it's one of the things that's kind of, um, she got a lot of slack for. Every night, talk shows and monologues for late night shows.

• 1:42:54Bunnie XO?

  I mean, that's, people do that to me and my husband, you know, like I have been called a gold digger my whole life. I feel like that is what, it's like a tale as old as time.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:04Bunnie XO?

  And it's like, it gives people something to talk about. And it's like a subject that everybody is like interested in for some reason.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:11Bunnie XO?

  And that doesn't necessarily mean that's how she was or who she was.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Well, had I not seen, like, listen, I had heard the rumors beforehand. In fact, I mean, this is like, um, I, I told Anna this and she smacked us. But some friends, we were actually, um, Jay, I was Jay Howard Marshall in a wheelchair for Halloween. And some girl was Anna Nicole, like, we made fun of it.

• 1:43:30Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  She's like, how dare you? You know, but she thought it was funny later and stuff. It was a joke, like, because of the age difference, you know?

• 1:43:36Bunnie XO?

  I mean, people are still doing that Halloween costume.

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  And, and I mean, some singers are doing it. There was an album cover, you know, and like recently Danny Lynn showed me that and, and, um, and so basically like, had I not seen behind those doors in that room.

• 1:43:52Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  You know, like, and I say that room in a way because it represented like,

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  it was kind of like her place within her.

• 1:44:00Bunnie XO?

  Sanctuary, her safe space.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  And, um, I mean, she never hardly used the other parts of the house. It was like, that's where the, that's where it was. I mean, like, I was, you know, I, and I, I wound up dating her for like two years. So that was where our time was spent.

• 1:44:14Bunnie XO?

  I think a lot of people don't even know that you guys were together for two years.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Well, and the reason is because, um, the, the problem with that is, is when, um,

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  When Anna always did interviews, and you can find dozens of them out there. Her big shtick was she was this available sex goddess, sex kitten that people desired to be with. And so when she went out on a red carpet, that was what she projected. Like, you would want to be with this woman, you know, if you could be with this woman. That was part of her image.

• 1:44:50Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:44:51Speaker 01

  So she would, like, if she was on an interview, I mean, there's tons of them out there. "I haven't had sex in years. I haven't like, you know, oh my God, no guys ask me out. I don't, you know, I don't, no one goes on a date," you know, all that stuff. That was part of her thing.

• 1:45:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  She said it just because she wanted to appear to be available.

• 1:45:10Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  And for you to think that you could have a chance with Anna Nicole.

• 1:45:14Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:45:15Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  And so, but she also did not want, because she had some weird situations and she had mistrust issues with people in a previous relationship and then like some stalker, he got a lot of press off of it.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  I will say this, and it took me a while to unravel this in my mind, that she did not want to share the spotlight that she was getting and that attention she was getting with anybody else. Because that was where she felt loved. And you're taking a piece of that love away when you take a piece of whatever away.

• 1:45:49Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:45:50Speaker 01

  So, you know, that, you know, that's where I think that, you know, she was the way she was and that what motivated that. But I might have got off track with what you asked me.

• 1:45:59Bunnie XO?

  No, you're good. So you guys being together for two years, you were around enough to start figuring out characters in her life.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:07Bunnie XO?

  So I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth about Howard K. Stern, and it's only because I met Anna. I met her at the Palms.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  I didn't know her.

• 1:46:19Bunnie XO?

  Yep, I met her at the Palms in Vegas and I was walking and she grabbed me and she's like, "Oh my God, you're so beautiful." And like, she asked me for Xanax. And, and I was like, "Yeah, I have Xanax, of course."

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Hey, by the way.

• 1:46:34Bunnie XO?

  Instant besties, you know? And I get how we're trying to protect her, but he was just, his energy was so dark and so evil. And he literally put his arm out in between us because we were like this close together. Put his arm out in between us and pushed me and was like, Anna, no, and like pushed me out of the way. And like to the point where she was like, I'm so sorry. Like she was apologizing for him.

• 1:46:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I've seen that, you know, I've seen him do that to different people and different events. But just as a question to you on that, was it, do you think it was because she, you say she asked you for medicine? Or was it because he didn't want you near her?

• 1:47:14Bunnie XO?

  Now that I'm out of it, it's probably because she was asking for Xanax. And I mean, you don't want anybody just giving anybody pills. But also I think it came from a place of, I don't know, I just really, I'm like you. I can read people. And I mean, in the first five minutes of being in their, you know, energy. And to me, he seemed like he was in love with her and it was extremely controlling. And I don't know, she just seemed like a little kid who was getting literally carried away by her shoulders. And she's looking back at me like, I'm so sorry, you know?

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  I've seen that look a million times.

• 1:47:50Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, here's the thing I'll say about this. Obviously, when I first came to the house, there was, you know, I would, you know, when I, I would come to the kitchen, hang out, you know, like it was like the common. I kind of felt like it was, I don't want people to like run with this, but like it kind of felt a little cult like, you know? Like we were in like some kind of cult.

• 1:48:13Bunnie XO?

  The Anna Nicole love boat.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, I was resistant to, I didn't want to be an entourage member or whatever. So I maintained independence. I tried to as much as I could. I still worked and did my own thing. I wasn't asking her for money, you know, that kind of stuff. But I will say that, you know, You know, the people in the house, they were having their bills paid, but at the same time, the people in the house were working for, and I will say this, I had my own issues with Howard as far as like him stepping into the relationship territory between myself and Anna, but at the same time, on the flip side of things, I watched him like work tirelessly, you know, and negotiate all of our contracts and not take a fee, you know, an agent would take, you know, 10% or whatever, a manager would take this, nothing was taken out of

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  it, everything went to her, you know, and it was fiercely negotiated for her benefit, like, you know, it was, and I, but I would also see, you know, him spend time with Anna's son, Daniel, kind of a father figure, you know, and take him out to learn to drive and do things like that, or take him out to a restaurant when Anna was just so exhausted that she didn't get out of bed for days, you know, so I saw like both sides of it, and the side that I saw that didn't bother me was the side where he's helping Daniel and this stuff, the side that bothered me was when he got involved in our relationship. And there, there came, became petty stuff like, you know, Anna, I was telling you, she was painting, I was painting, you know, Anna, Howard, who's, who's painting is better? Well, Anna, yours is better, you know, and I'm like, so, it was like, kind of like that kind of stuff, you know, like, okay, let's get Kim in the room, Kim, who's painting's

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  better, and like, it was like a round two, you know, and it was like, just like some childish stuff going on. I look back and I was like, you know, Anna was in her 30s, I was in my younger 30, I'm five years, I was five years younger than Anna, so I was, you know, I want to say I was like 30, maybe when I was there, right at 30, and, and basically, we were all operating, even myself included, a little bit, the maturity level wasn't to where people in their 30s, you know?

• 1:50:06Bunnie XO?

  And I feel like Anna liked to triangulate people.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:10Bunnie XO?

  That was her thing.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Well, and, and, you know, like the thing about, like, you know, what 30 something, you're a woman, puts a trampoline in her house and tells you to jump off the rails, and it was almost like we were, you know, you hear about celebrities who didn't have a childhood, like Michael Jackson, these people, and they tried to recreate stuff, so it was almost like we were kind of going along with the gag, like, oh my God, today we're gonna jump on a trampoline, you know, tomorrow we're gonna, you know, paint faces and paint, so it was like, it was like activity time, you know?

• 1:50:39Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:39Speaker 01

  And in between that, you know, obviously, we had our own personal time, but in the house, when that was happening, like Howard slept on the couch below, which we auctioned, thank God we got rid of it. But Anna's room was right above that, you know, and everybody kind of had a room and stuff. And so he really didn't have room, but he would stay around and stuff. And it was like a little bit uneasy for me because like, he'd bring the dogs in, the dogs want to see you again. I'm like, okay, you know, the, you know, and our, here's what we're doing today. And it, and some of it was necessary, but some of it, I think, was kind of like, to get in there to figure out what we were doing and stuff. But in his defense, and it took me a while to kind of like, I don't want to say mature up, but also to kind of reflect

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  on it. His, he was the cleanup man for a lot of the past stuff.

• 1:51:27Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  For her relationship. So I don't want to make excuses for him because in the moment, it hurt what he was doing to me, hurt like my feelings and hurt like, you know, this, the relationship and it suffered because of it. But on the flip side of things, if you look at from his perspective, where, you know, could he sit back and watch this person take advantage of Anna, if he thought or whatever? I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I don't know what somebody else might say. I try to see everything from both sides. But I do know that it became difficult to just exist in the relationship with her. And it wasn't just him. It was literally like when people would come over, there was like, I mean, there's like, um, but going back to the Netflix show, there's two of these people that, that dressmakers that came out and took swipes

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  at me and said Anna hated me. They were never in the house one time with us.

• 1:52:14Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Like one of them came, I think one and put a tape measure around her and I saw them one time and they never came back or whatever.

• 1:52:21Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  You know, but now we're her best friends and, and we're her this and we're her that and, you know, and, and whatever. And, um, it, in that show, you know, those people, you know, Howard aside, those people took swipes at me and was like you said, and said that I was, I want to go back to that, just if I can, real quick.

• 1:52:40Bunnie XO?

  Of course.

• 1:52:40Speaker 01

  This, the, she was looking for a person to have a baby with. Well, that was partly born out of, like I said, that she would say she's not dating anybody. So there was a mystery of who she's dating.

• 1:52:50Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  So when she actually got pregnant, and not to jump ahead of what you're, you know, might ask me, but like, it created a mystery of, well, who the hell's the father? Cause she said she ain't dated anybody.

• 1:53:01Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:53:02Speaker 01

  So, you know, that was the whole thing where, um,

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  The tension started to build because Anna, her show had ended. She still was the Diet Pill spokesperson. She, we knew she was pregnant. She came to me and told me she was pregnant. I was actually getting ready to just close up shop and say I'm done because I couldn't deal with a lot of the stuff.

• 1:53:22Bunnie XO?

  So yeah, let's not gloss over that. So when she found out she was pregnant, how did she tell you? And where were you guys at in your relationship?

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Well, we had previously had a miscarriage and, and she had a difficulty with, I didn't think she was able to get pregnant, to be honest. Not that I'm like, not that we were trying not to, or really.

• 1:53:48Bunnie XO?

  It was just hard for her to get pregnant.

• 1:53:49Speaker 01

  Well, and we really weren't sitting down going, oh my God, today at first, we weren't saying, oh my God, today we're gonna, let's have a, you know, we weren't really, it was just like we were just being ourselves and, you know, it's like, whatever. And I was convinced after hearing so many stories from her that like she had like some, I don't want to say it wrong, the,

• 1:54:09Bunnie XO?

  Endometriosis?

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  No, the, the type of pregnancy that, ectopic?

• 1:54:14Bunnie XO?

  Oh, ectopic pregnancy.

• 1:54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So she had something like that in the past and stuff. She had difficulty with that. And so like, when she did talk about wanting to have a baby, she had an ovulation meter by the bed. And she was like, I mean, I literally would be sitting there in the bed, oh my God, it's time, it's time, it's time. You know, it's like, it's like closer flying, like, you know, it's like, it's like she really, she was laser focused on wanting to have a baby. But what she did with me was she said, after saying she thought I was sent as an angel to help her, then she thought because of Daniel's birthday being the same as mine, that there was just too many signs that this was something that was meant to be. And then she went a step further and said, you know what?

• 1:54:59Speaker 01

  You actually kind of look like Daniel. And I think that, you know, if we had a kid together, we'd have some kids that look like, you know, Daniel and, you know, and she always wanted a girl. I mean, years and years of collecting like baby girl clothes.

• 1:55:14Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:15Speaker 01

  Even dressed Daniel up as a girl when she could because, you know, because she wanted a girl so bad, you know?

• 1:55:20Bunnie XO?

  Poor Daniel. What was your relationship like with Daniel?

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  You know, I honestly, I, I, I feel bad because I think in all of this, you know, after Daniel passed away and his, his mom and the paternity stuff, that he gets forgotten, you know, in so many ways. He was a really, really, really good kid. And I think that, um, super shy, you know? If you ever watch the show and, you know, and then finally they took him off the show. And then he, he did homeschool and stuff. And there was some kind of like, you know, tension, whether he should be on the show or not, and he didn't want to. And then, you know, as he got older and when I came into the picture, he was kind of warming up to like even doing some modeling and some things like that. And kind of coming out of his shell a little bit.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  But he was like super quiet to himself. But I would go down because he was the only person in the house that I could talk to who would talk to me at some points. Because we got to a point in the house that when you went to the kitchen and you got something to eat, you were not supposed to talk to the person you saw in the hallway. It's like, don't talk to her, you don't talk to him.

• 1:56:29Bunnie XO?

  Why?

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Because she was telling people in the house different stuff.

• 1:56:33Bunnie XO?

  Okay.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  So she didn't want anybody to compare notes to what she was telling them.

• 1:56:37Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:56:39Bunnie XO?

  Wow, what a crazy way to live.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:43Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  And I.

• 1:56:44Bunnie XO?

  And everybody has to abide by it because she is the breadwinner.

• 1:56:47Speaker 01

  Well, they did, the, the people, the employees had to.

• 1:56:50Bunnie XO?

  Right, that's what I mean, yes.

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  Maybe her son. But like she would actually get to the point where sometimes like she would come to me and I would listen to her talk to employees in the house. And she'd say, you're back talking me. And then, you know, fast forward to us and, you know, you know, in the bedroom or wherever. And so she's like, and you're back talking me. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am not your employee.

• 1:57:10Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  You know, don't put me in that pocket. When you do that, then this goes to a different level. And so I stood my ground for that. And so she was like, oh shit. But it was kind of like a little bit of respect I got from doing that. But it took me to say, hey, I'm not, you're not paying my bills. You're not this. I don't want your money. I don't, you know, like, literally, I didn't, I didn't ask her for anything. Like, you know, um, she brought me this necklace I'm wearing, you know, like, literally, that's the only thing that, other than like holiday stuff or whatever. And, you know, I've, I've never, I don't take it off. I think I took it off once. I went into an MRI machine.

• 1:57:44Bunnie XO?

  And for Tyler Henry, is that the one that you were wearing on Tyler Henry?

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, and I don't, I don't take it off. But I, listen, uh, the thing is, is that,

• 1:57:54Speaker 01

  with Howard, with all of that, with him, you know, I had my problems with him, that, you know, um, he had a job to do. I didn't really fit in that whole thing. The irony of it is, is that he was one of the ones that actually brought me into the fold. Why don't you come and take pictures and stuff? So, I mean, he's probably kicking himself when he saw where I was versus where he might want to be.

• 1:58:14Bunnie XO?

  Were they ever intimate?

• 1:58:16Speaker 01

  Never to my knowledge. In fact, when I talked to Anna, she's like, that's gross. That's this, that's that, you know, and then.

• 1:58:21Bunnie XO?

  But I mean, you can't really trust what Anna says because she's telling the world she doesn't have a boyfriend.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  That's true. So, but the thing that I will think, what I would say to that was, is that the only thing that I can attest to is that like, there was in no circumstances was like she getting sex from me and going downstairs on the couch and getting sex from him.

• 1:58:38Bunnie XO?

  No, but I mean, even before you or like after you.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Honestly, don't know. I mean, I can tell you that we had, you know, so many private conversations about that, that, um, that, that.

• 1:58:50Bunnie XO?

  She never wavered.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  She would never, she would never say anything but we're just, he's like my brother. He's like my friend. He's like my, you know, and I'm like, okay. I mean, I didn't have any reason to think that they would have. So I didn't really go further with it until later.

• 1:59:05Bunnie XO?

  Right. After the baby was born. So take me on the journey of her telling you that she's pregnant and where you guys are at.

• 1:59:12Speaker 01

  Sorry, I'm all.

• 1:59:12Bunnie XO?

  No, you're, it all ties in together, I promise.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  And the thing is, is like, like I said, I'm like.

• 1:59:17Bunnie XO?

  There's so much lore. It's hard. You know, you're gonna have to go down different avenues just to tie it in together.

• 1:59:22Speaker 01

  And like I said, I'm ADD, so I'm like, go back and then I'm like, oh shit.

• 1:59:24Bunnie XO?

  It's all making sense, I promise. It may not feel like it, but it is.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  So honestly, like at a time when, um,

• 1:59:35Speaker 01

  We had just kind of cut off, got over the miscarriage several months prior to that. And then there were some rough patches we hit and, and, um, and I just was like, I'm, I gotta go. I, I, I gotta go home.

• 1:59:47Bunnie XO?

  What were the rough patches?

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  Well, it was like, um,

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  you know, I mean, like she expected so much out of me that I, I was, I was drained, honestly. Like I was, it was, it, it was, and I, I honestly, like, like I said, I'm hyper. I like, I have things I've got to get done. I, I literally would go, we would go to an event and we would, um, say New Year's Eve in Vegas. And like, I was like, okay, that was fun the next day, but she needs to sleep for two weeks to watch movies and stay in the bedroom and do whatever. And, um, just to recover from it. So to me, I was like, I felt like I was just sinking into the bed.

• 2:00:30Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:00:31Speaker 01

  You know, like I was, and, and, and some people like, well, what's your complaint? It's Anna Nicole. But, but I mean, after so much, like mentally, I was like, I, I, because also it wasn't just that. It was like, I was told like, um, I, I had nieces and nephews I was super close with. You know, uh, when they were growing up and I never missed one holiday party with them or a birthday or whatever. I, she, there was one time I wanted to go home for my niece's birthday and she told me no. And we had to get a, um, birthday cake. And she put my niece's, uh, she sent her assistant to go get it. Go get a birthday cake that says happy birthday, Amber. And I was like, okay. Um, and then her assistant comes, brings it in. She goes, now go get your camera.

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  And she says, here, you take a picture. Told her assistant, take the picture. She gets in the bed. She, she's got like a, um, a white fluffy hat. Remember the hats the girls were wearing in the fall? You know, and, but. She wanted me to send this picture back to my niece, but she I wasn't supposed to tell anybody that I was dating her, my family or anybody. So what she did, which was weird, was she puts glasses on, she makes me put glasses on and a sombrero. So I have a cake, a sombrero, and she's got these things on, and I'm holding this cake cup that says, Happy Birthday Amber. And she goes, okay, now it's done. You had a party. I go, what? And that she, she said, you're not going back home. Christmas came up.

• 2:01:57Bunnie XO?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  No, you can't go home because she didn't have anybody.

• 2:02:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:01Speaker 01

  So she felt like I was abandoning her when I said, I need to go just take care of normal things.

• 2:02:06Bunnie XO?

  And she wouldn't go with you because she didn't want people to know you guys were dating?

• 2:02:10Speaker 01

  Sometime. We got to a point where she finally got over a little bit over the hump of that by it was actually out of no, it was a, it was by mistake, actually.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  We were in a Hooters restaurant in Burbank, and we had just went shopping for, it was around Christmas time, and Anna had all these people's charities. She, you know, those Adopt the Families on TV you see, and like, there were so many families that were like, she was giving things to and stuff, and we were getting gift cards and stuff to send. And we went by Hooters afterwards, and she was like, there was nobody in the restaurant at all. And so they came over, waited on us and stuff, and all of a sudden, the paparazzi shows up at the window. And I have a feeling somebody probably inside called him or whatever, because it was like, where we were, there's just really not a lot of paparazzi in that area.

• 2:02:58Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  So the waitress is waiting on us, and Anna's looking out the window at the paparazzi, and I'm telling her, look, and I had already taken pictures inside with her doing like dances with the Hooters girls and stuff. And we were just having lunch and stuff, and, and I was always to take my camera back because I always had to look like the photographer.

• 2:03:20Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:03:21Speaker 01

  So it was like, I was playing a role within my relationship of really being something that I actually was. So, you know, so the paparazzi is outside, and the waitress comes over, and she's like, oh, my God. She goes, I love your earrings to Anna. And she had these like earrings with a star on. She's like, they're so, so pretty. She goes, oh, my gosh, and your son is so cute. And she's looking at me. So Anna immediately.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Turns her back to the waitress. She looks at me and we both had beers in our hand and stuff. The paparazzi is outside still. We were still dealing with that. And she takes a swig of her beer and I and tears start coming down her face. And she says,

• 2:04:09Speaker 01

  "You're gonna eat five meals and you're gonna lift weights and you're gonna get big and no one's gonna think you're my fucking son and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, you know, I, but she had already told me I look like her son. You know what I mean? So it was like she was taking that and going now it was being used against me. And I was like, I didn't really think we looked anything like other than like it was cool. We had the same birthday, but whatever, you know? And so.

• 2:04:33Bunnie XO?

  Well, I think what happened in that moment was it, it was an ego hit because you're her dude. And you know, she's like, what are you trying to say? Like, I look old, like what's happening? Yeah.

• 2:04:44Speaker 01

  She, and she was always sensitive about, she was always sensitive about criticism about, you know, the way she looked and she was, she was used to being picked apart. And she had just kind of, you know,

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  transformed herself, you know, back in this was like the trim spa era where she was like, you know, you know, and, and she thought all of that for this to just say that. And then obviously no, nobody wants to feel like they look old and stuff like, you know, women especially is like, you know, so it's like, I, I didn't know what to do in that moment. Cause I was like, the paparazzi is out there. Tears are streaming down her face. She's, you know, crying and

• 2:05:25Speaker 01

  I, I remember I didn't want, my, my instinct was to obviously like to comfort her and to hug her. But I, I remember the paparazzi is there and I'm like, um, so I kind of froze. And so she turns and she takes her arms and puts them around me and she's still crying. And, uh, and I'm like, and I know this sounds petty because like, but. From what it was, it hurt her feelings. It hurt me to see her hurt. But at the same time, that particular incident, when we left the Hooters restaurant, then they started taking pictures of us leaving. I'm holding her, my camera bag, I'm holding one of her dog's bags. And she's trying to compose herself and she's flipped the switch again and she's like,

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  she's got her leg wrapped around a pole and she's leaning back and doing poses and stuff. And she's really, she's working the camera on the way out because that's, she's trying to recover in that moment. And those pictures wound up, I, I think they came out in a magazine, who's Anna Nicole's mystery guy? And blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh shit. And so, um, she really didn't get that worried about that. It because it, it didn't, I don't want to say it was like breaking major news. It was, it was in magazines and stuff and it was like, next, you know, next week's edition's coming out next or whatever.

• 2:06:44Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:06:45Speaker 01

  But it, to me, um, later on, that would be a moment that, um, would actually come back and be a piece of evidence that would prove that I had a relationship with her after the paternity stuff hit.

• 2:06:59Bunnie XO?

  Wow.

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Because Howard, her attorney went out and said that I didn't date Anna. And that I just had about 15 pictures with her and that we're not going to respond to every Tom, Dick and Larry that goes out and says they had a relationship with Anna. And, you know, and so that was part of the paternity stuff when news broke about her getting pregnant. And people were trying to figure out, well, who's this and who's that? And so, um, but that particular moment in Hooters was a mistake that actually kind of put Anna's foot forward to say, okay, that wasn't so bad, you know, he didn't, he wasn't trying to get the press. And it was my fault. She recognized that there's nothing really that we could have done to get out of the moment. Um, but she, uh,

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  And moving forward, you know, there was other things and other times that would test whether she was open to me being seen with her or not. And I never forced that because I was always respectful of the fact that this was her image.

• 2:07:58Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:59Speaker 01

  And, you know, and I didn't want to be, um, I also felt like I would fail that test.

• 2:08:05Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:08:06Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 2:08:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  Like, I felt like I was always, somebody was always waiting for me to fuck up.

• 2:08:10Bunnie XO?

  Exactly.

• 2:08:10Speaker 01

  You know, and, and, and when that happened, I felt like, um, then it's, it's game over. You know, and to me, it was more important because I, I was in love with her at that time. We, we had these big moments, these things that like, I never experienced miscarriages and things like that, that brought us like, it was hard, but it brought us closer. We got over things like all couples did. We, you know, like, you know, cheating and, you know, not me, but she cheated on me and like, but she expected exclusivity from me and, you know.

• 2:08:39Bunnie XO?

  Who'd she cheat on you with?

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  Um, you know what? I, I would like to say it maybe happened once, but I think, you know, maybe, you know, a couple of times, but I think.

• 2:08:48Bunnie XO?

  How did she get away from you to cheat? Just like business trips and stuff like that?

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  There was a time when I actually, we went to Australia for, um, the MTV Music Awards. They were launching the Australian network and it was, um, Sharon Osbourne was there and Ozzy Osbourne and.

• 2:09:06Bunnie XO?

  They just had Sharon on the podcast.

• 2:09:07Speaker 01

  I saw that and Anna loved Sharon and she was like, she actually called Sharon mom. Because she needed that mom figure and, um, and they were all over there and Carmen Electra and stuff. And so there was this whole big thing and it was a whole big thing that we filmed that's never been seen, but like, it's like this whole big, um, thing where Anna was trying to outdo all of the other people that was slated to perform and stuff. And so, um, during that trip, there was, she was over there to do some business.

• 2:09:38Speaker 01

  There was a guy who was flirting with her. I was forced to take pictures of her flirting with this guy. And really, every time that we went to every event, everybody that flirted with her, I'm having to document my girlfriend being flirted with with somebody else, you know?

• 2:09:51Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:09:52Speaker 01

  And it'd be girls, it'd be guys, whatever, like whoever was taking up that time, you know? That was like, like it was a weird spot to be in.

• 2:09:59Bunnie XO?

  And they had no idea, but you did, and you had to just bite the bullet.

• 2:10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:04Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, that's wild.

• 2:10:05Speaker 01

  And so anyways, I, what were you asking me? Sorry.

• 2:10:10Bunnie XO?

  No, I actually forgot what I was, oh, how did she get away to cheat on you?

• 2:10:14Speaker 01

  So, so during that Australia trip, there was a guy flirting with her.

• 2:10:19Speaker 01

  You know, there was a business deal on the table.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  We, I flew 24 hours. We were, we were, and Anna was there. We filmed the whole thing. No one's seen that either. And it's like all this behind the scenes craziness and, and basically,

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  there was a situation where the guy came up to the room that we were supposed to share together. And I was given a key for the room next door, like I was now the help. And I was like, wait a second, or you know, I was like, I didn't belong in that room. And so there, it, it, you know, she denied it later. I, you know, you know, but out of that, I, you know, I, I, I feel like something probably happened to where I like, I obviously I wasn't in that room. But I had to put my foot down from that point. That's when I, that was like, I said, all this, this is all bullshit. I don't give a shit what your public persona is. I don't give a shit if you're this.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  I had enough, like, you know, like, and I was, you know, I flew all this way, you know? And I was with, it was just me, Anna and Howard. And then we met people there from the different events and stuff. And, you know, Anna was looking forward to this, like this was, she's like, we're going to the most, one of the most romantic places in the world and blah, blah, blah. And, and it was supposed to be this time and still like, again, the miscarriage was fresh in my mind. We didn't talk about it.

• 2:11:46Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  We, she didn't want to talk about it. And she somehow.

• 2:11:52Bunnie XO?

  How long was she when you guys lost the baby? Do you know?

• 2:11:55Speaker 01

  It was a few, two, three months, I think. Yeah. But somehow she turned that into.

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  The, my suspicion about her cheating to denial to, she wanted to talk about that. And I don't know if that was just, it was a brain switch or a maneuver. But that, that thing was wiped away. We were now onto something else. And that's what happened in that, in, in her world, really. You go from one thing to another. You don't have much time to spend on it. But I was told in that moment that I did not get the big picture. That, that you don't get what this is all about.

• 2:12:34Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:12:35Bunnie XO?

  Sort of gaslighting you.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  Well, like I, like that I wasn't a part of that picture. Like, and I wasn't like, and, and, and I understood the business aspect of it. I understood like what I was supposed to do and say and not do and say and all that stuff. But that trip, which was, um, it was a turning point for many things for me to put my foot down for respect. And the odd thing was Anna's show was over. So we have it all. She was still filming.

• 2:13:01Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:13:02Speaker 01

  So she filmed everything after. So in like, all this stuff has just been in vaults and stuff. And so like, it, it just shows a totally different picture of what, if I would have taken all of this stuff that we have, that it's never been seen and dumped it in the courts when all the paternity stuff was going and all these different, the doctor trials and all the different things. They would, it would be, okay, this all makes sense now. But I, I didn't, we didn't do that. And, and, um, and so, you know, people, because I have taken the high road in many ways, that has worked against me and my relationship with Anna. It also worked against me after she passed away. Cause people think that they can rewrite history, that I'm not going to say anything because I haven't said anything.

• 2:13:42Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:13:43Speaker 01

  Doesn't mean I don't know anything, or I don't have the receipts and all the archives and things to show, to totally blow everybody out of the water.

• 2:13:49Bunnie XO?

  You also had to protect.

• 2:13:51Speaker 01

  It, that was the main thing. It was, you know, my daughter is just now, she, you know, Danlyn's 19. She'll be 20 in September. She's at the, at the point where now it's kind of like, okay. There's some questions here, you know, I have this, or why is this person saying this? But she did, she sat back and she did not watch the Netflix show. But she watched. The pain that I had from it. And she felt for me in that moment where I was actually feeling. And I will say honestly, it hurt me what they said about me. I was more afraid that she would hear some of the things that they said about her mom. And that not, not because there's things that she. They're not all great things. They're not bad things. They're not things that like.

• 2:14:36Speaker 01

  I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and saying that, you know, I haven't done bad things or whatever. But what I was more afraid of is that. The discrediting of her life story was taken down.

• 2:14:47Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  In a two hour show. For the purpose of what? You know, for somebody to make money, to make ratings, to make, try to get awards. The vindication in that was that the show was called Anna Nicole, You Don't Know Me. And people said, and you never will after you watch this show because blah, blah, blah. So I was like, yes, yes. And I was watching the Rotten Tomatoes score and it was like way down. I was like, let me frame that and send it to that.

• 2:15:10Bunnie XO?

  So take me on this journey of when she does tell you that she's pregnant because you guys are beefing and we'd learned why. Tell me about this journey because this is like right before she moves to the Bahamas, correct?

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  So.

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  The, I guess the, the thing with. Me, you know, I got to the point where I was like kind of fed up and.