The First Person to Say NO to Ryan Holiday’s Book Recommendations

After recording their episode for The Daily Stoic Podcast, Ryan took Pete Holmes on the usual post-interview tour of The Painted Porch. Let’s just say Pete had some thoughts about a few of Ryan’s book picks... Here is the FULL list of books Ryan recommended to Pete: https://www.thepaintedporch.com/collections/pete-holmes 🎥 Prefer video? You can watch this on Ryan’s YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LjNengryJc: https://www.youtube.com/@RyanHolidayOfficial/videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LjNengryJc 📖 Preorder the final book in Ryan Holiday's The Stoic Virtues Series: "Wisdom Takes Work": https://store.dailystoic.com/pages/wisdom-takes-work https://store.dailystoic.com/pages/wisdom-takes-work 🎙️ Follow The Daily Stoic Podcast on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast/?hl=en: https://www.instagram.com/dailystoicpodcast 🎥 Watch top moments from The Daily Stoic Podcast https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast: https://www.youtube.com/@dailystoicpodcast ✉️ Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail 🏛 Get Stoic inspired books, medallions, and prints to remember these lessons at the Daily Stoic Store: https://store.dailystoic.com/ 📱 Follow us: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dailystoic/, Twitter https://twitter.com/dailystoic, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic, TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@daily_stoic?lang=en, and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/dailystoic See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Weekend Edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

• 0:43Ryan Holiday?

  My wife and I own a small indie bookstore outside Austin, Texas. And not too long ago, the comedian Pete Holmes was in town to do a gig, and he stopped by. We talked books, and these are the books that he left with.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  What are you reading these days? Well, I'm Rupert. Rupert. And Let Them on a Bad Luck.

• 1:05Ryan Holiday?

  We don't have that. We should. I don't know why we don't.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  It was one of those times where you just see the title and you're like, I think I get it. And then it turns out you did.

• 1:14Ryan Holiday?

  I mean, I think that's very much Stoicism of just like, why are you trying to change or control something that's not yours?

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:21Ryan Holiday?

  Which is like basically what all of life is about, most of us, most of the time.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've been doing it.

• 1:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Just let them. Just let it.

• 1:30Ryan Holiday?

  Well, I thought the premise of that book, the story, she's like, you know, my friends are on vacation and they didn't invite me, I'm gonna let them. It's like, yeah. I mean, the absurdity of the things that we won't let people do.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:41Ryan Holiday?

  Is like, just like, it's embarrassing.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:44Ryan Holiday?

  If, yeah, it's embarrassing what we try to prevent other people from doing.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:50Ryan Holiday?

  Like, what do you mean, other people are having fun with that?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  That's not allowed. Totally. It's not.

• 1:57Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, if you're a hiss, this looks funny. This guy's a...

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Where's your philosopher?

• 2:02Ryan Holiday?

  Uh...

• 2:03Speaker 01

  This is... This is parenting, thank you.

• 2:05Ryan Holiday?

  This is parenting, but this is... It's a book about having kids from a philosopher. And, um, it's like, the funny story, which it sounds like one of those ones that a comedian would tell, but you know isn't exactly true. Where his son is like, "I need a philosopher, I need a philosopher." And he's like screaming for his dad. His dad brushes in, and he's like, "I've trained for this moment." And, um, uh, his kid wanted one of those flossing sticks. That's the, like...

• 2:30Speaker 01

  And it's like, you mean... It's like, you had to know that he didn't mean a philosopher.

• 2:34Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, but I do love it. I do love it.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  That's in this book?

• 2:36Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  It's funny, I'll give a lot of commentary. I don't like this cover design.

• 2:41Ryan Holiday?

  Why not?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  So much that I won't buy it.

• 2:44Ryan Holiday?

  Well, you're not allowed to buy them, but, uh...

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 2:46Ryan Holiday?

  This is a...

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:48Ryan Holiday?

  But, why don't... What do you hate about the cover?

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Well, these are Calvin and Hobbes rip-offs.

• 2:51Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Which have been so much...

• 2:53Ryan Holiday?

  All right.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  I don't like the joke. Is this title about us? I think so. That immediately makes me not trust this author.

• 2:59Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  No, no offense, Scott, but I'm like, "You made me read this, and I felt nothing."

• 3:05Ryan Holiday?

  Well, also, I'm just realizing, "I'm on the cover."

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Are you?

• 3:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  But you like it?

• 3:09Ryan Holiday?

  No, well, no, no, no. I mean, I do like the book. I'm sure the book... No, the concept of the books are the only books that we like. But I... I interviewed this guy when this book came out, and I must have said this, but I didn't... I didn't know I was on the cover.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Blurb it!

• 3:22Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, so that's funny.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  How many books have you blurb that you haven't read? Me, it's, uh, 20.

• 3:29Ryan Holiday?

  Well, so the best thing is just to have a policy of not blurbing books.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's good.

• 3:33Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, just say like, "Sorry, I don't... I don't blur books." Have you read... Have you read this? This is good. This is up your alley.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, the parents doubt itching.

• 3:43Ryan Holiday?

  This is sort of like, it's loosely based in the thing, but...

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  You're gonna uncover, do you wanna hear a bias I have? I'm like, everything is not as good as just reading The Tao Diche.

• 3:57Ryan Holiday?

  Well, of course.

• 4:00Ryan Holiday?

  But you can do that and then also read this.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. I also, what, oh, I need my phone, cuz most of my books are audiobooks. I do have some-

• 4:09Ryan Holiday?

  You only do audiobooks?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Well, I drive a lot.

• 4:11Ryan Holiday?

  Right. Oh, yeah, the O I drive?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  The O I drive. So I rip through a lot of books that way.

• 4:16Ryan Holiday?

  Let's see how many books I can give you that you immediately put back and are not interested in.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  I wouldn't read this.

• 4:21Ryan Holiday?

  It's impressive.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  I wouldn't even pretend to read that.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  But I'm, you know-

• 4:28Ryan Holiday?

  That's amazing.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  It's sort of like picking a bottle-

• 4:31Ryan Holiday?

  Have you read Good Inside?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:32Ryan Holiday?

  Do you like Dr. Becky?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  I love Dr. Becky.

• 4:35Ryan Holiday?

  Okay, all right. Dr. Becky is amazing.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I would get that on audio. For me to wanna read a book, a book, it would have to not, like, I would read Good Inside to learn something.

• 4:47Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  And I'm like, I might as well just, as opposed to like an experience book.

• 4:51Ryan Holiday?

  Sure. Have you read Outdoor Kids in an Inside World?

• 4:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 4:55Ryan Holiday?

  That's good. That might be up your alley.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  I don't know why, but I immediately, I'm not into-

• 5:00Ryan Holiday?

  Is this a cover reaction?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  I don't like the title.

• 5:04Ryan Holiday?

  What, you don't, you would disagree with the idea of having an outdoor kid?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  I don't like it.

• 5:10Ryan Holiday?

  Okay.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  You know what's, I read this.

• 5:15Ryan Holiday?

  That's good.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  It's a good book.

• 5:16Ryan Holiday?

  Drive is very good.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Did you recommend Drive to me?

• 5:19Ryan Holiday?

  Maybe. His, his book about dying is very good.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 5:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Oh, this one?

• 5:23Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, very good. He's just, he's hanging out with his wife one day, and he doesn't feel well, he goes to the hospital. He, like, just an artery burst inside his body, and he bled almost out entirely. Just, for no reason, just could've died, has a near-death experience in the hospital.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Like a what kind?

• 5:41Ryan Holiday?

  Like a float, it floating outside-

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Like the real time?

• 5:43Ryan Holiday?

  And so the book is an exploration of one, how quickly that you can die, but also how-

• 5:50Ryan Holiday?

  How the interesting, that's a point that other people made, but how similar the near-death experiences are for people that they all often describe very similar things. And so it's more mystical than you would expect from someone like Sebastian Navarro. It's very good. Okay, I would be into that. All right, take that one. Let's see if I can get, how hard do I have to work to get? I also like the size. Yes. This is not an ego trip. This is a guy that goes, like your books, your books are nice. You want to be able to finish it on a flight or a couple of drives? This is smaller than yours. Yes, that's like, it's like a hundred pages. I also, I do love Milky Glad. Yes, yes. But I don't want to just grab an author. Uh, well, what, now I'm, now I have to work hard.

• 6:31Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, you might be. You ever had anyone put them back? Usually they just sugar me.

• 6:50Ryan Holiday?

  I don't know about memoir. You don't like memoirs? I think you would like A Gift From the Sea. What is that? It seems very up your style. You just sort of riff on stillness and quiet and, uh... Okay, it's an older woman, that makes me more interested. Yes, it's, the book's from the 50s, 60s. I like this paper. Yes, it's a beautiful little book. I think you would like that one.

• 7:23Ryan Holiday?

  It's not telling me anything about it. Well, just read it. I see how this is done.

• 7:30Ryan Holiday?

  I didn't know I would have to work.

• 7:37Ryan Holiday?

  What books do you read to your daughter? She wears your kid stuff, should say. Hey Mike.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Now we're in the... Oh, you know what?

• 7:48Ryan Holiday?

  What?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  It's very similar to a book she loves, but it's not.

• 7:51Ryan Holiday?

  What book is it?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  There's these fake anthologies about dragons.

• 7:56Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  And unicorns.

• 7:58Ryan Holiday?

  This one's Dragonology.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  It's not that one, though, so I guess it's not.

• 8:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, like, does it have, like, this one, they have, like, little pockets in them and stuff, like treasures and things. These books are popular. Yeah, like, my kids love these.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Oh, this is, that's a little too much, I think, for my daughter. A lot of words.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Maybe for me is what I mean.

• 8:22Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, when I open a kid's book and there's like a paragraph on the page, I go, nope.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 8:27Ryan Holiday?

  It should be one sentence. Uh, no, what is it about? Okay, this is a kid's book.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  I think I told you about it.

• 8:33Ryan Holiday?

  That is amazing. Hope they tried to ban in Texas.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Um... I need a new butt.

• 8:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, because it has a crack in it.

• 8:41Ryan Holiday?

  It's amazing.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  It's fantastic. Should ask that kid.

• 8:46Ryan Holiday?

  Uh...

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, this is right up my daughter's alley. It's, it's...

• 8:49Ryan Holiday?

  What's the kid's book?

• 8:50Speaker 01

  What is this? Why is there a fake?

• 8:51Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, is it, does it make sounds? I don't know. This is like a...

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Oh, it makes sounds.

• 8:56Ryan Holiday?

  Does it?

• 9:00Ryan Holiday?

  I don't know.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  I told you about my kid's book. It's called Spells to Cast on Your Parents.

• 9:04Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, yes.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because you were the one that was like, um, you had encouraged me to say that. I'm very, I'm doing the other way.

• 9:11Ryan Holiday?

  You're just doing it, right? Or did you sell it?

• 9:14Speaker 01

  I sold it and I'm doing it.

• 9:15Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, well, you know, like...

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Oh, I see what you're saying.

• 9:16Ryan Holiday?

  When I did kids' books, I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna, I don't need a, I don't need a book deal on a deadline to write 800 words. Let me just sketch it out.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Ryan Holiday?

  And then, uh, figure out what I want it to be, and then I'll figure out what the best path to do it is. Like, I ended up self-publishing these two just because of...

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have this.

• 9:34Ryan Holiday?

  I wanted it to be longer or something.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I see.

• 9:37Ryan Holiday?

  So I was like, you know what? I don't, I'll just do it myself.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think the art of the kid's book, because I read kids' books every single day.

• 9:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, of course.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Uh, is...

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Underappreciated.

• 9:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Is there someone that's absolute dog shit?

• 9:52Ryan Holiday?

  Well, we maybe we talked about this, but I love the ones that are like, and I'm not this like anti woke person, but they're like just trying to shoehorn a horribly dark historic event into a kid's book that like they don't need to read about.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  We have those. Yeah.

• 10:06Ryan Holiday?

  It's absolutely. We don't, we don't need this.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  No.

• 10:09Ryan Holiday?

  Like.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  It's rough.

• 10:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. Well, what are we doing?

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Who? My daughter loves.

• 10:14Ryan Holiday?

  You need a turtle.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Specific iteration of an intro, but she's, I think she's level one on this. Yeah, we, we have these, but like for her.

• 10:23Ryan Holiday?

  Have you seen the Minecraft movie?

• 10:24Speaker 01

  No. It's great.

• 10:27Ryan Holiday?

  Amazing.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  What?

• 10:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  No way.

• 10:30Ryan Holiday?

  We're gonna watch, I mean, my oldest is eight, but like, we're gonna watch Nacho, it's Nacho Libre is great. Napoleon Dynamite.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  We just watched Napoleon Dynamite.

• 10:37Ryan Holiday?

  It's that, but with the IP of Minecraft. I mean, like they wear a lot of the same clothes. Like it's ridiculous.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Is it the same director?

• 10:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, it's the director.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 10:48Ryan Holiday?

  And, and then obviously it's Jack Black, you know, anything funny. And so it's actually like, yeah, amazing. I, I would say no one laughed harder in the theater than her family. And like, it was almost like, like it was amazing. I thought it was incredible.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  That's so cool. I'm happy to hear that.

• 11:01Ryan Holiday?

  That's very good.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Oh, I loved.

• 11:03Ryan Holiday?

  You're probably not into Minecraft yet, are you?

• 11:06Speaker 01

  No, I, I also thought that was like a, you're really not supposed to let them play Minecraft.

• 11:10Ryan Holiday?

  That's Roblox.

• 11:12Speaker 01

  Road?

• 11:13Ryan Holiday?

  Mines, Roblox. Minecraft is like very low, low key.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  These guys, I think about these guys a lot.

• 11:21Ryan Holiday?

  I know Adam.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  How'd they do that?

• 11:23Ryan Holiday?

  Uh, Dragons of Tacos?

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like, what's the difference between a bad idea and a good idea?

• 11:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I think that's.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I also have issues with Grumpy Monkey.

• 11:31Ryan Holiday?

  I'm not ready for Grumpy Monkey.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I, I'm not mad at it, but the, the lead's name is Jim Panzi, which is great.

• 11:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  But then every other animal isn't, they don't even try to make it.

• 11:43Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, they don't continue that?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Ryan Holiday?

  Oh.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Come on. I can't think of any, but I, I have, while I was reading it to Lila, I was like, his name should be this. And she's six and she's like, yeah, don't set up a gimmick.

• 11:55Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. No.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  But I don't know, I like.

• 11:58Ryan Holiday?

  Have you, have you actually done Curious George?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 12:03Ryan Holiday?

  BJ Novak was like, no, no, you gotta get the actual full curious George. It's like amazing.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Really?

• 12:10Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, and all you do is one, it actually is incredible. But look, I, I love this sentence. Because with the hook on the string and the string on the stick and the cake in the box in his hand, George went back to the lake.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 12:20Ryan Holiday?

  I just like, I.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 12:22Ryan Holiday?

  No, this one, this is all the actual, there's one where he goes to space. It's, it's.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  And that is excellent.

• 12:29Ryan Holiday?

  See this?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  I love this, thank you.

• 12:35Ryan Holiday?

  So, so you're only, you're only willing to accept children's books apparently, you won't?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  We don't, you know, we don't, we just read Where the Sidewalk Ends. We've read it many times. Do you recommend this one or this one?

• 12:48Ryan Holiday?

  I.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  You don't know?

• 12:50Ryan Holiday?

  Not as you, Charles, I'm just a person. I mean, I don't like dislike them or anything, but. What, you guys into Bluey?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  We love Bluey. Something's gotta go back. My, my Karen doesn't have specs.

• 13:01Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, we can mail them to you.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Oh, really? Alright.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Hey. Hi. Nice to meet you.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Hi, what a pleasure to meet you.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  The kids could talk some books for your child, but I don't know my kids.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's those books.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Oh, those might be.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Find my children to tell you.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Okay, let's do that.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  I would love to meet them too.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  It's one of those situations where I was like, here's, here's my phone.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  How's it going?

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Well, what a great story. I'm like, I'm doing really well.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Really well. Yeah, I love it.

• 13:49Ryan Holiday?

  Me too.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Books better fit.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  To tell you about books, my book? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get really distracted in podcasting. Because I am cataloging the titles.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  I found myself reading the titles.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  It was, and then I'm like, I'm following this conversation, but I'm like, a little distracted with this, just like, this poor.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  And there's an L. Ron Hubbard right by Ryan's eyes.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Right by his eyes.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  You know this?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Yes. There's two in there.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there's one like, is it to say like?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's actually, this is like a sneaky sign.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Just so you know, any second.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  It's your gateway.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  I, I sort of felt that coming.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  So, yeah, there's, well, and there's like a lot of books that feel like it's calling me out, like Driven to Distraction, like Your Brain on ADHD or whatever. And I'm just like, I don't need to be attacked while I'm...

• 14:35Speaker 01

  I saw the Av Diet.

• 14:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, a lot of Avs. There's like a Dad Vod Diet, yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Uh, Do Hard Things stood out. But, and, and Ryan's books, I kept seeing Ryan's.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  I'm glad that that, that, and that's not the entertainment, I mean, I should be paying attention to what Ryan's saying. I mean, you're not trying to make a trip.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Oh, here's the Rob.

• 14:54Ryan Holiday?

  They want sepsis.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Oh, anytime. That's what we do.

• 14:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, we have two of you.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, twins or? No. Fun. I always want to make a cycle, a sequel to this, Outlive, and then what? And then? Peter, when you've won, and you're 93 and doing squats. Well, who cares?

• 15:16Ryan Holiday?

  Peter's, I actually really like Peter.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 15:19Ryan Holiday?

  Hilarious, but I do think it's funny that like, that Brian Johnson guy, the other one who's like obsessed with living forever?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 15:25Ryan Holiday?

  The one that looks like a vampire?

• 15:26Speaker 01

  I don't know him.

• 15:27Ryan Holiday?

  Oh, he, it's like, the people who are obsessed with living forever don't seem to be living lives worth prolonging that much.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Which is true, Marcus Aurelius joke.

• 15:35Ryan Holiday?

  Well, yes, so there's enough.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  You're afraid of dying and not being able to do this, and he's jumping on a box.

• 15:39Ryan Holiday?

  There's, there's, Seneca has a similar joke, where he's talking about this criminal who's set to be executed, and the emperor walks by, one of the more cruel emperors, and he's like, uh, uh, he's like, please don't kill me, don't kill me. And the emperor goes, oh, you're really alive, are you?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:58Ryan Holiday?

  And how many people's lives are some version of basically already dead. Already dead.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's kind of the joke I'm making there, or I'm trying to make.

• 16:07Ryan Holiday?

  What?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Because I keep living so you can keep checking your O2 levels or whatever. Like, I do, though, believe that he enjoys that.

• 16:16Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, guys.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  But to your point, with this book, your death happens now.

• 16:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  That's the disturbing thing.

• 16:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Whether you're 99 or 29.

• 16:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  It's happening in the present.

• 16:32Ryan Holiday?

  Well, Seneca's other point is that, he says, like, it's wrong to think of death as something in the future. It's like that he says the time that passes belongs to death.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  The time what?

• 16:41Ryan Holiday?

  That passes belongs to death. So we wrongly think of death as this conclusive event, as opposed to death being every second that's passed. So like, like a 90-year-old, you die at 90. You've died 90 years.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:56Ryan Holiday?

  Like, you know what I mean?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  For 90 years, you trailed like a star.

• 16:59Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, and that because you can't go backwards, that time is dead. And so, so thinking about the passage of time as this kind of living death is supposed to create a sense of urgency and awareness.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Well, that's useful. What I'm saying is less useful. It's like when you die, it'll be the only thing that's happening.

• 17:14Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, that also true.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  We, that's why we like movies, because movies depersonalize it, and you see someone dying.

• 17:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  And we think we'll see ourselves dying.

• 17:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yes.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  But you won't. It'll be subjective, like The Sopranos, which is the most unsatisfying ending to a show ever. Are these your boys?

• 17:28Ryan Holiday?

  Yes, yes.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Hey, dudes.

• 17:29Ryan Holiday?

  You guys got all your Easter clothes on. That's a fancy upgrade.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Do you want to look at his, they picked out books for your child.

• 17:36Ryan Holiday?

  Ooh, let's see if they'll.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  This one?

• 17:39Ryan Holiday?

  His daughter's name is Lila. They picked out some books for, for your daughter.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  One.

• 17:44Ryan Holiday?

  One? What's that dragon book we're listening to in the car?

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Dragon.

• 17:49Ryan Holiday?

  Dragon Girls, yes. It seems good.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  The show's great. Oh, no. It's this one. I don't want that.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Those are for you, are you broccoli?

• 18:07Speaker 01

  The Bakery Dragon? Well, that one's good, actually. My daughter loves dragons. Oh, we actually have this one.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Do you? Do you have A Hundred Dragons Named Broccoli? That was the other one that they were trying to do.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I think we have the Bakery Dragon. I know I've read it. But you have A Hundred Dragons Named Broccoli.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  We don't have that one right now, but that's the other one that they really wanted to do.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  Oh, this is Jones pick this one? Oh, thanks. I'm gonna take this one too, because I don't, I think we read it in a store.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  And didn't buy it. You can't do that. Everyone can't. This is not a library. This is a library.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  If she likes dragons and she doesn't have A Hundred Dragons Named Broccoli, they also wanted to give her that one, but we don't have it.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Thank you.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  It's a good one.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Appreciate it. The book I'm making has a dragon. Really? Gotta have a dragon. Of course. Has a small dra- black dragon named Jesse. Is there a pun in the name or no? His name is Jesse. Or I should say- Well, I'm sorry, you said Jim Chimpanzee or whatever. No, but I don't establish games and not follow through. Right, right.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  But I would say that it fiercely follows the rule of if you set something up, you continue with it. Yes. There's not. Look, Grumpy Monkey, wish you all the success in the world. In fact, you're doing just fine without me wishing you success. And I think the artist's fabulous. The plot holes. I just... You know, I guarantee if I met that author, I'd be like, "Did you try?" And they would say, "Yes, and we couldn't think of one for the gorilla." You know what I mean? Uh huh. But there are ones for like giraffe or- So, so some of it has it and some don't? Just one has it and none of the others do. That is annoying. I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that. All right, let's do this. I read a lot. It's sort of my job. You can't write without reading.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  For almost 15 years now, once a month, I send out an email with my favorite book recommendations for that month. Books that I've been reading, books that I've been going through, books that changed my life, that inspired me, that I can connect to what's happening in the world. And you could sign up right now at ryanholiday.net/readinglist.