Vogue Williams: My health anxiety is bad! How to stop catastrophising

Have you noticed your body changing with age? Vogue Williams has suddenly become aware that she needs to make a point of staying physically and mentally strong. In this chat with Fearne, Vogue explains why having a drink and having fun are just as important as exercising and sleeping well when it comes to feeling good. She talks through how her health anxieties have manifested in the past, and how she’s used medication and therapy to move her through difficult periods of heartbreak and grief. Vogue explores why she and husband Spencer Matthews are so good together. Plus, why she got kicked out of a yoga class, and why Big Brother’s Nasty Nick lives in her head rent free... Vogue’s memoir, Big Mouth, is out now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Spencer Matthews https://pod.fo/e/16dcf3 Joanne McNally https://pod.fo/e/294cdf Millie Mackintosh https://pod.fo/e/2a4636 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. Today, we are heading back to this year's festival in Tatten Park with Vogue Williams.

• 0:38Speaker 02

  With anxiety, you can, loads of people, you find a different way to manage it and it can only be managed, it will always come back and go away and come back and go away. And for me, I wanted to do therapy, which I do. I was struggling to like sleep properly and then if I wasn't sleeping, I was more anxious the next day. So I couldn't really get to the point where I was able to do even therapy because I'd just be going around like this the whole time, tensing my fists and just being anxious. So then I got beta blockers off my doctor. So that kind of allowed me to calm down a little bit and then to be able to actually think about what was making me so anxious and then to try and deal with it through that way.

• 1:12Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thanks to you gorgeous humans who came to the Happy Place festivals this summer. Tatten Park, which we've just had the other weekend, was an almighty event. I loved every minute. We had weird weather. It was either pissing with rain or glorious sunshine. But do you know what? You hearty northerners, you amazing Cheshire-dwelling buttes, I know not all of you came from Cheshire, but many of you live in Cheshire, you were so amazing and just cracking on with the yoga come rain or shine, meditating, whether it was pissing down or boiling in the tent, listening to talks, shopping, eating, you just cracked on and I love you for that. It was an amazing celebration and I'm so grateful. It was beautiful to meet so many of you. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

• 1:56Fearne Cotton?

  Now, on to our live podcast, which we recorded at the Happy Place festival. Gorgeous TV presenter Vogue was the first guest on the talk stage this year. So we had this chat at 9am, first thing. Vogue was terrified no one would turn up so early, but the tent was absolutely rammed. We were both very awake and very chatty. So we talked about a lot of things. I mean, I could talk to Vogue. For weeks, I sort of, I feel like we need to continue this chat but over a tequila because we had so much to chat about. We talked about what make her and Spencer compatible, that she was very honest about. We also talk about alcohol, her relationship with alcohol. There's alcoholism in the family. So she's kind of been dealing with her own relationship

• 2:39Fearne Cotton?

  with alcohol in a really level-headed, grounded way. We talk about intrusive thoughts and panic attacks, which I know many of you also deal with. I've certainly dealt with in huge bouts over the years. Health anxiety. We talk about body image, aging. I mean, it's just non-stop changing subject matters in the best way. And I really hope you love this chat.

• 3:06Speaker 03

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• 4:10Speaker 04

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• 5:14Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, here it is. This is the show.

• 5:37Fearne Cotton?

  Hello gorgeous, have a seat.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  I am totally blown away that like, I thought I saw nine o'clock, I was like, why is she giving me such a shit slot? I was like, no one's gonna be there at nine, this is amazing.

• 5:50Fearne Cotton?

  Have you met this lot? Like, we're early birds. We don't like staying up late, us lot, do we?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:56Fearne Cotton?

  This festival finishes at 6pm, thank you very much.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Darling.

• 6:00Fearne Cotton?

  By half six, I will be in bed, watching my laptop, watching obviously, Meghan with love, so, thanks very much.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Do you watch this?

• 6:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 6:09Fearne Cotton?

  Obsessed.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  What, really?

• 6:10Fearne Cotton?

  Absolutely obsessed with it, can't get enough.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  In a good way?

• 6:14Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, you mean in all the ways.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:16Fearne Cotton?

  In all the ways. Um, yeah, like, this is the crowd, this is what we're talking about.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  This isn't me.

• 6:20Fearne Cotton?

  There's no booze here, you can't, there's no drunk idiots, it's just gorgeous.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  Darling, and I've just given up drink again.

• 6:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  I do that every time I drink, I give up then, after it.

• 6:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  I'm a week in, eight days in actually.

• 6:33Fearne Cotton?

  I'm back on it.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Oh really?

• 6:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm loving it. I had a big old red wine in bed last night.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  I did see a half bottle of vodka back there, I wonder who owned this?

• 6:43Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, look, I'm so happy you're here.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  I'm delighted.

• 6:46Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so thrilled you're here. I was thinking about, I remember the first time I met you really clearly because I was covering for Lorraine, which you can't cover for Lorraine, that's impossible. You can't be Lorraine, she's Lorraine. So it's a nightmare job, but you were a guest on the show, which was so wonderful. And you had just been on, what was that show called, the skiing one?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Oh, The Jump.

• 7:08Fearne Cotton?

  The Jump?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  God, I loved that show.

• 7:10Fearne Cotton?

  You'd just been on The Jump and there were all these rumours going about, about you and Spencer. And they were like, you've got to ask her about Spenny. I was like, this is so awkward. And you were, you gave a really diplomatic answer that you were sort of friends or whatever. Now look at you.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  I know. Well, we were trying to be friends then. I wasn't really lying to you because I had, for the first time in my life, I was properly single because I've always, I'm like relationship girl. That's me. And I was, I was dreading being single and then I was like, I'm going to try it for as long as I can. I was really enjoying it. I'd only gotten to the point of not feeling depressed and alone. I was like, this is actually amazing. And it was the first time since I'd been 20 that I was single. So I was like, I really have to stay single, I have to do this for a while. And then I met Spencer and I was like, it was kind of like, we're together, no, I don't want to be with you. And we're together. Like it was like that, like we weren't, what's it called, exclusive.

• 8:05Fearne Cotton?

  And what was it about Spenny?

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Persistence, I'd say.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  No, he is like, he's not, because obviously when I met him, I thought he was like what he was on Made in Chelsea. I nearly didn't say the name because he hates it so much, but I was like, that show. And he's not like that. He's just not like that at all. He's kind, he's generous, he's great crack. I mean, he's full on, I just met a guy who works with him back there. I was like, how many times has he texted you today? He's like full on like that, but he's just, have you ever met him?

• 8:39Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I've worked with Spencer.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 8:41Fearne Cotton?

  We did a talk together maybe five months ago, four months ago.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 8:45Fearne Cotton?

  We've done a few things like that together. I love Spencer.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's really, he's really, really good fun.

• 8:49Fearne Cotton?

  And he's hilarious.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he doesn't mind taking the piss out of himself and he doesn't mind when I take the piss out of him. Which is very important, I think, in a relationship.

• 8:56Fearne Cotton?

  Have you been together, what, seven years, eight years?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  Seven years, yeah. Oh, no, maybe, I don't know. Seven years married, seven years married.

• 9:03Fearne Cotton?

  Got that anniversary noted down.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Seven years married, eight years together, I think.

• 9:07Fearne Cotton?

  And you've got three gorgeous babies.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:10Fearne Cotton?

  Why do you think you are compatible? Why do you work as a couple?

• 9:13Speaker 02

  I think that genuinely, we kind of like doing the same things a lot. And he, at the start, we kind of struggled a bit because he was obviously a big drinker back then. He's not so much anymore. And now he's off it. And sometimes when he goes off it, he's real like, you should look, Vogue, look at your drinking. And I'm like, piss off.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  How many times did you drink in Spain? I'm like, were you counting? But I think we're compatible because we do enjoy doing the same stuff. He's very ambitious and he's supportive. So to meet somebody that's supportive of your job and like, we don't want each other's job either. You know what I mean? Because we're in the same kind of industry. I don't want to do what he does and he doesn't want to do what I do. And you're not going to catch me and Jordan running 30 miles.

• 9:59Fearne Cotton?

  What is he up to?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  I know. I think he's, I think he might be trying to get away from us at times.

• 10:06Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I mean, we are at the end of the summer holidays. It's one hell of a juggle. How's that been?

• 10:12Speaker 02

  It has been very full on, but I, my mum lives in Spain, so she, it gets too hot for her now. So she leaves there in, in June. We're trying to get her out earlier every year. And so then we go down and steal her house. So I was there for six weeks with them.

• 10:27Fearne Cotton?

  Nice.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  And it's lovely because I can work from there and it's like, it was really nice to just get away with them, from them.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  But you know when you're like, you're so desperate to stop the school run and all the like logistics and everything like that. And then when it's time to come back, you're excited to go back into a kind of routine with them.

• 10:48Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  And they're excited about it as well.

• 10:50Fearne Cotton?

  They need their mates, they need other people disciplining them. That's where I'm at.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I mean, I can't be taking them to the driving range and things like that when they go absolutely insane. And just were screaming the place down yesterday. So they're ready to go back. We're all ready.

• 11:04Fearne Cotton?

  We're all ready for this September reset. Now, I feel like the Happy Place Festival is a bit of you. Like, we see a lot of this online that you love looking after yourself and just essentially, I think the whole wellbeing thing is so misleading a lot of the time. It doesn't have to be one thing. It's just simply about feeling good. And that's certainly a priority for you.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. Like, I see people, like, you see all that biohacking kind of stuff now. Like, I just want to feel good, still have fun, eat crap when I want to eat crap. Like, it's all, it really is about balance. And I think that people, you kind of feel like if you go way to one end of the scale, you're not going to be able to, to keep it up and to, and to feel good all the time. I just try and prioritise sleep mainly. I'm obsessed with sleep. I love talking about sleep and I love sleeping.

• 11:53Fearne Cotton?

  Are you good at it?

• 11:54Speaker 02

  I'm really good at it.

• 11:55Fearne Cotton?

  That's great.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  I currently have two fitness rings on because I'm like, I wonder which one measures it better.

• 12:00Fearne Cotton?

  That's hilarious. They're competing.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  They're competing. This one I prefer because it gave me more sleep last night, but yeah.

• 12:07Fearne Cotton?

  It gave you more sleep.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  It said I got more.

• 12:11Fearne Cotton?

  Hilarious.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  I've become, I can be quite, like, I'm scared of my health sometimes. So when I do drink, like, I'll be really worried that I've ruined my body or something. So that's why I'll stop drinking for a while. But I would describe myself as a binge drinker. I know that sounds terrible, but I don't really, I don't drink very often. So if you don't, when you do drink, it's like you're drinking.

• 12:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but again, it's balance, isn't it? Like you just said, it's making sure that you keep, keep that in check. You've been really open over the years about anxiety and panic attacks. Where are you at with that at the moment?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I'm actually, this week is a good week. The last two weeks weren't good weeks. And I think what I do is that's why I'm not going to drink for a while because that really gets it for me. And I feel like if I train, like people think I'm insane because I love, when I go on holidays, I don't want to go on holidays, drink loads, not train, just eat rubbish and go home feeling crap. So I'll always go away and I'll train and people think that's kind of weird, but I just, it makes me feel like it kind of regulates me. It makes me feel better. It's really good for anxiety, I find. But I do have, I have medication as well. If I, if I'm having a really bad time with it, I'll take medication. And there's no problem with that either.

• 13:20Fearne Cotton?

  God, no.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  No, I love having a little backup of it, especially if I'm hungover as well.

• 13:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, if like.

• 13:28Fearne Cotton?

  All the pills. I mean, my struggle, if you're having a terrible time, I, again, I think it's all personal choice. There should be no judgment around any of this stuff. I took antidepressants for a while. And if you're in a bad way, you've got to, you've got to do what you've got to do.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  I feel like with, with anxiety, you can, loads of people, you find a different way to manage it. And it can only be managed. It will always come back and go away and come back and go away. And for me, I wanted to, I do therapy, which I do kind of irregularly now, but I was struggling to like sleep properly. And then if I wasn't sleeping, I was more anxious the next day. So I couldn't really get to the point where I was able to do even therapy because I'd just be going around like this the whole time, clenching my fists and just being anxious. So then I got what they're called beta blockers off my doctor. So that kind of allowed me to calm down a little bit and then to be able to actually think about what was making me so anxious. And then to try and deal with it through that way.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  But I wouldn't say it gets that bad all the time. I think when you, when you go through big life disturbances really is probably when it gets the worst.

• 14:27Fearne Cotton?

  So what, what would you say sort of triggers it on a every, every kind of week basis? If there's stuff that's bothering you, what triggers it?

• 14:35Speaker 02

  I, I could catastrophise anything. Like I booked flights to Turkey the other day and like the flights didn't go through. So then I decided it was a really bad home. And then I was really anxious that like I shouldn't be going to Turkey because there was a reason they didn't go through. And just like if my mind is anxious, I'll catastrophise. Absolutely anything and think the worst is gonna happen with anything and you you kinda can't stop it. So I just, after a while, I realise how ridiculous it is. And then it's only after you've kinda come through it, or if you're having a panic attack. And like Spencer, my husband, he doesn't get anxiety. So like when he first saw me having a panic attack, he was like, what have I married? And then the next day, you're kinda like, sorry about that.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  It's so, it just consumes you and you can't get out of it. And you're just, you're you're just in a panic, basically, and you and you can't stop it until it kinda runs its course. And you exhaust yourself in a way.

• 15:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, spirals, I mean, those, I mean, for me, it could be like intrusive thoughts almost. Where you believe like, this is a fact, this awful thing is gonna happen. And you can't get out of that cycle of believing it. And I think even in the moment, you can intellectually tell yourself, I know what this is. Like, this is an intrusive thought, it's not real, or I'm totally catastrophising. But it doesn't stop the manifestation of the panic bit. You just have to, like you say, go through it, go with it.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, kinda ride it out. And I think that like, I know that anxiety almost feels like a newer thing. But like, I remember back in Ireland, it'd be like, oh, her nerves are at her. Like, that's what they used to say about like, any anyone, I remember my parents' friends and stuff like that. Somebody who would have just had anxiety, but it was called your nerves are at you. And I think that now, life is full for everybody. We're all trying to do a million things and go a million miles an hour and be the best at everything that we're doing. And actually, it's causing more stress and more anxiety. And you just kinda have to be a bit nicer to yourself. And I think that's why trying to look after yourself in in certain kind of ways, trying to like, be healthy in certain kinds of ways. It's just helpful for how fast paced our lives are now.

• 16:40Fearne Cotton?

  Are you good at being nice to yourself?

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, kind of, I feel like I'm always on the move. I think the juggle with parenting and working, you always have that guilt. No matter what you're doing, if you're doing more of one and more of the other. Like, even yesterday, my son was like, why do you have to go to work? And I just said, I'm I'm, I've been with you all day. I had to go do a podcast for an hour, but you kind of, you'll just always have that guilt. And that causes anxiety as well, because you're just like, I wish that you could just stay with them and, and do stuff all the time. But that's not good for them either. They need to be going out and doing their own stuff.

• 17:17Fearne Cotton?

  Too right. And they, and they are fine. I think that's the other worry we have. It's like, they're not fine unless I'm with them 24/7. They're fine. They're absolutely fine.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  And actually, like, I love my job. I love work. I get such satisfaction out of it that I, it's kind of like, for me, it's like a day off going to work. I just really enjoy it. And, and they're happy out and you can kind of try and make it all work. But it's always that thing where you're like, ugh, trying to balance it out.

• 17:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's possible to ever find a level of peace with that. I'm not sure anyone does. I think it's.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  My mom, I was like, did you ever feel bad when you worked? No. She never.

• 17:55Fearne Cotton?

  Actually, Lyn's like that.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Not an ounce of parenting guilt.

• 17:59Fearne Cotton?

  No, no, no, very much like, off you go to school. And we were, this is what I sort of, I look back at and I think, I wish I could just do 80s parenting. 80s parenting was so great. My mom would be like, bye. And I'd just walk to school, probably from the age of like 10.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:15Fearne Cotton?

  And did she ever, like, obviously we have now like apps with like what's going on at the school and Google classrooms and all this stuff. As if she knew what I was doing at school. As if she had a clue or like said, do your homework or even went to parents' evening. Ah, it's a waste of time. I'm not going to that. Fine. Do you want to know how I'm doing at school? Not really. No, we are, we're like, I'm at the school more than my kids are. What is going on?

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I know. It is, it is wild. But I was only, I was talking to my sister on our podcast the other day and it was like, what did you do when you were bored as a child? And I was like, we were never bored. We were just, we were kind of just like kicked out of the house. And like, we were just told to go and play and we'd go and play, we'd come back for lunch, we'd go and play again, we'd go back. And it's, I, I do find that a shame in, with, with my kids. Because we live in London. It's just, it's kind of not safe to do that. But when we were younger, there was none of this, like going to all these classes and things like that. But even my friends in Ireland are like, you do what? Like, because I do, there's so many different things in London.

• 19:14Fearne Cotton?

  After school stuff and.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you can sometimes do too much, but you're always trying to keep them entertained. Where we were just kind of booted.

• 19:20Fearne Cotton?

  Just doing our own thing. I know that, but there is this sort of like new weird pressure that again, I don't suppose our parents had that your kids had to be doing all these extracurricular things. And I think we then feel like, oh my God, am I not giving my kids enough exposure to different things? And I always take it back to, did David Bowie go to alternative music club after school? Of course he bloody didn't.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  That's such a good point.

• 19:46Fearne Cotton?

  He just like found his own thing. Like, what are we worrying about?

• 19:50Speaker 02

  I know, I know. I suppose you're always just trying to help them out. But I, I don't know if anyone else's kids are like that, but if my kids stay in and like, let's say we're up at half six in the morning. Yesterday is an example, by nine, they're just tearing at each other and like ripping the place apart. And I'm like, we have to, I had to take them to the playground.

• 20:08Fearne Cotton?

  To get out.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Nine o'clock yesterday morning, I was like, they have to be out, they have to be doing something. They just get bored.

• 20:13Fearne Cotton?

  It's also the arguing, the fighting, the fighting drives me insane. Can't bear it. They'll argue over anything. Could be like a stone. That was my stone. It's a stone, mate. What are you arguing about? Like, everything.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Why do they love rocks?

• 20:29Fearne Cotton?

  Rocks, anything.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  The piles of rocks they have in the buggy. I'm like, why do I have to bring those and sticks?

• 20:35Fearne Cotton?

  And sticks, yeah. They just argue over everything. It's absolutely a nightmare. I know that when you were writing your book, which we have very perfectly placed here. You were assuming that a lot of your anxiety was something that perhaps came from a relationship breakdown in your twenties. But actually from writing this, you can chart it back more so to childhood. And I guess involving like your dad's story and his ill health, you think that might be where your anxiety began?

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd say it did. I think writing this book, I learnt so much about myself, about anxiety, about all those kind of things. And I did think it was from a big breakup that I had, because like, I think that kind of triggered it to a really dark kind of place. But I, now any English people reading this book, my childhood is not that mental. We all had that childhood in Ireland. But Svenny read it and he was like, Jesus, that's traumatic.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  It's not, but I think that I grew up, my parents divorced when I was about six. And my dad was always sick from as as young as I can really remember. And I think it was very difficult, always going in and out of hospital, always worrying if he was gonna die. So I do think a lot was put on me at a young age. My parents, well, I'd say more so on my mom's side, hated each other. And that was kind of difficult for us to navigate because they didn't want to hear anything about him. They didn't want to know anything about him. I'd say it was annoying that we went to see him. And I think it was, it was difficult for them, but it was difficult for us. And we just had to navigate a lot from a very young age. But I think that's probably why I'm so close to my sister and my brothers. Because we kind of just really stuck together in all of it.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  And but I definitely think that that's where the anxiety must have started. Because just the stress of seeing my dad sick and the first time being taken in to see him when I was 11. And he was just hooked up to all these machines. I was like, gosh. And so I'd say that that's probably where it all started.

• 22:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's like giving you a sort of element of health anxiety. Because that's again, a newer term, but one that, you know, I meet so many people through this job, but also just in my personal life, who have listened to a podcast and they've gone, oh, my God, that's what I have. I just didn't know it had a name because it's quite a niche anxiety.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Health, yeah, I do, I get that. I'm just, I'm constantly, this will tell you if you're, what your heart health is. And mine's gone down, it was better. And I'm always like trying to make it better. But I I just, a little bit of health anxiety, but a little bit of, I just want to feel good. I want to feel healthy. I want to, I remember I did, I did gladiators this year, so I did, I did the.

• 23:12Fearne Cotton?

  Has that been on yet?

• 23:13Speaker 02

  No, it's on, it's on.

• 23:14Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I am watching that.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  On New Year's Day, but it was the first time I was like, I'm old.

• 23:20Fearne Cotton?

  Sorry, did you have to run up that travelator at the end? I want to do that so bad.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  It's so hard.

• 23:25Fearne Cotton?

  Course it is.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Like, you know, the way you always laugh at people when they're doing it, yeah, not until you've tried it.

• 23:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, when you fling off the other end of it, it's so fast.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  But I did that and that was the first time I thought, oh, my God, I'm old. Like, my body is feeling absolutely battered. And I had to, I hate hotel baths. I'm really weird about things in hotels. So I don't like the throws on the covers. I'm like, I just have to kick them off because I know so many people have touched them. I'll never.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  I do, I'm like, and I'll never get into it. Doesn't matter what hotel it is.

• 23:57Fearne Cotton?

  Are you not getting in the bath because other people have laid in it?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Other people's bums have been on the bath. And they don't clean it as well as I would clean it at home. But when I do.

• 24:06Fearne Cotton?

  Please tell me you travel with bathroom spray, please. Are you scrubbing that bath?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  I just don't get in the bath. I'm like, but I was so sore after Gladiators, I had to get in a bath. And I remember being like, oh, I actually showered after and I was like, oh.

• 24:22Fearne Cotton?

  A shower after the bath, that's great.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  But yeah, but that's the first time I felt old. So I was like, I'm really like on this buzz of trying to improve my running. Cause I run like a snail and I'm quite happy with that. Like I just, I like to run and talk to people. But I'm trying to, I'm always trying to up my game a little bit so I can feel healthier and stronger.

• 24:41Fearne Cotton?

  I can't wait to watch you on Gladiators. I love watching Gladiators.

• 24:46Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sure you can't say too much, but no, I am. I'm very, very excited.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  It was so fun though. Like when I was doing it, I just thought having those women on TV for our kids to see. And they're just strong and amazing and just powerful.

• 24:59Fearne Cotton?

  Did you have to do the one when you climb up the big wall? That's my worst nightmare, having someone chase me up the wall.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to say what I did.

• 25:06Fearne Cotton?

  Right, no, that's fine. I won't pressurise you on that one.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  I'll tell you backstage.

• 25:08Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, oh my god.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  And anyone who bumps into me, I'll tell you.

• 25:10Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sorry. So yeah, basically I tell everyone. So we're just not on a mic.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Separately.

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• 27:56Fearne Cotton?

  Obviously, you know, your dad had ill health, but you've said he lived life to the max. Like, he lived really, really fully. How do you think that impacted you, sort of? Because you're seeing someone living life to the max, having a great time, but you're also seeing the impact it's having on them negatively.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  I think that, I think that some people just want to live their life in a certain way and that's fine. Like, he was very fond of the drink, um, and like, it was great for us when we got, I used to nick so much booze off him. Um, but like, I remember when he'd had two heart attacks in two days and he was in hospital. And just when he was able to start standing up, he was caught smoking out the window of the bathroom. And I was like, this is bad. And he would just, he was just, he was never gonna give up. And I think he got to the age of sixty eight and I think he was very lucky to do that. And some, I'd, I still, even now with all the wellness and nice things going on, I just can't imagine him ever giving up smoking or slowing down on the boozing. He used to put butter on his chips.

• 28:56Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:57Fearne Cotton?

  That actually sounds so good.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  It was good.

• 29:00Fearne Cotton?

  Might try it.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Like, I don't think I ever saw him walking anywhere where he ne- he'd never have been in a gym or didn't really do sports or anything. So the fact that he even got to that age was quite amazing. But I think some people just are like that. You can try and make them be a little bit healthier because I always think if you just, even if you're in the gym and you just do a tiny bit, or if you just walk somewhere or take the stairs, you just, you naturally become fitter and you just, it makes you feel so much better about yourself. And I think especially when you get to forty, I think that's the age that you have to start doing little bits of weights and things like that. It's really good for your, yeah, you just.

• 29:37Fearne Cotton?

  That's where I'm at.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, me too.

• 29:39Fearne Cotton?

  And it's the hips, it's a lot of like, I'm having to do a lot of like, getting those hips moving in the morning because I am stiff.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  I know, yeah, and I hate stretching, it's so boring.

• 29:48Fearne Cotton?

  It is so boring, but it is so good.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  I know, but I always avoid it unless I'm really in bits.

• 29:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's the str- I think as we get older, it's the flexibility, the strength.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  You're a big yoga head though.

• 29:59Fearne Cotton?

  I do, I do love, I do love yoga, but it is, it's, it's the more, you have to be in the right frame of mind. Because if you're kind of, I don't know, if I'm feeling really like I've got excessive energy, I need to like,

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Run.

• 30:10Fearne Cotton?

  Run or do something, like yoga, you've got to be, I think, in that headspace to.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  I'm never in that headspace for yoga.

• 30:17Fearne Cotton?

  Well, we've got a yoga tent here, babe, we'll chuck you in there later and see what happens.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  I went, the last, the last time I did yoga, I did hot yoga.

• 30:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, that's hard.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  And I was like, I was, obviously everyone was having a great time, I'd never been there before and I was just like, Jesus, is it meant to be this hot? And then eventually the teacher.

• 30:33Fearne Cotton?

  You're gonna faint.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  The teacher was like, I think you shouldn't be.

• 30:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, stop talking.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  So I had to leave. I was like, I'm obviously not made for this.

• 30:42Fearne Cotton?

  No, I don't like hot yoga.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  It's rotten, it smells, it's so hard.

• 30:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. If you're not getting in a bath, how are you standing on that floor?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  I brought my own mask.

• 30:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, good. Too right. Share a mat.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  I think I've always been weird about, even pre-COVID, I'm a bit weird about germs. I wish everyone could just keep wearing the face mask.

• 31:03Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, so if you see Vo today, don't touch her. She's not here for hugs. Just like a polite wave and that is where we're calling it a day.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  In England, like you guys love kissing each other, Jesus.

• 31:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  And you do two.

• 31:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we've gone very French.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  In Ireland, we're kind of like, and I was like, that's it. You just give a little ta. Yeah.

• 31:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, no, we go right in for the snug. We absolutely love it.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Have you ever met, like, my family hang out with a Swiss crowd. You'd be all night kissing them. Three kisses on each.

• 31:28Fearne Cotton?

  Three?

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Three.

• 31:30Fearne Cotton?

  I've got time.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  No, and you have to do it or you're rude. You're like, oh, God.

• 31:34Fearne Cotton?

  It's so lengthy.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  And we went to Christmas with them once. I was like, are we ever gonna have dinner?

• 31:41Fearne Cotton?

  We're still kissing.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  I used to do it at the end as well. I was like, for God's sake.

• 31:47Fearne Cotton?

  Don't go in for three kisses, is what I'm saying. Something else that you write about in the book is your relationship with grief and how you were on the run from it for a while. Your dad died when you were in your early twenties. And then this coincided with a big life change for you. You moved to the other side of the world and you were slightly on the run from it, would you say?

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I'd broken up from not a great relationship and then my dad died. And then I met somebody who lived in Australia and I was like, see ya. And then I kind of just went and it was really unlike me because I was such a home bird. And the whole thing, like, I don't regret it, but looking back, I can see that I just wanted to get away from just feeling sad. Everything reminded me of my dad over there. Like, I wanted to get away from the breakup and I'd met somebody that I was getting on really well with. And like Australia was the furthest place I could probably go. So I went there and it was, it was good enough at the time, but eventually everything catches up on you and it doesn't really matter where you are, the same problems will still be there.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  So I was in Australia, still not really feeling great, but also being away from my family and also probably being in a relationship that I shouldn't be in, trying to make it work. And then, yeah, it kind of all went tits up from there.

• 32:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but like you say, it catches up. Do you, did you, when did the grief hit? Can you pinpoint it?

• 33:04Speaker 02

  I'd say it was probably a year into it. And like, grief is a funny thing because now I kinda, I would still get quite, like, I'm lucky that it's, I haven't lost too many people. Oh God, there's no wood. Okay. I was gonna touch wood.

• 33:19Fearne Cotton?

  Gosh, touch your head, babe.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Oh, there we go, there we go, yeah.

• 33:21Fearne Cotton?

  Your leg, there you go.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Touch your head three times. I think grief is a funny thing because eventually you kinda get to a stage where you'll still think about somebody all the time, but instead you're just thinking about nice things. You're not thinking, but then you do get to it, you're like, oh, they would have loved this, they would have loved that. But it becomes less sad and actually you're just like, you just kinda deal with it. But when you're in the like throes of grief, it's, I think it's really hard. But like, I almost think when you go through a really bad breakup, that's like a level of horrendous grief. And I know somebody gone through a breakup now and it's just, it's horrible to see just the sadness and just, it's kinda like a despair. So I think a grief from a breakup and a grief from somebody dying is kinda like similar.

• 34:04Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you had both going on. You were getting divorced in your twenties. You were very young to get married and dealing with the loss of your dad. How, how did you get through that period? What helped you?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  I think that's when I started taking beta blockers and I found that really helpful. And then when I just kinda came to terms with the fact, like, cause you know, when you're like, I was still living with somebody I was getting divorced from. And then I just, I got to a point where I was like, right, I need to move out, like create my own kinda life. And I had a friend that I moved in with and oh my God, he was so messy. And I was like, this is, I don't know what's worse here. Will I, will I go back?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  He used to make chicken for his lunch, right? At the start of the week. And he would, I know he'd make chicken because it would just, every handle of the cobras would be greasy. I'd be like, ah! But um, no, I just getting through that, I think as well that you have the huge embarrassment because you have such a massive epic failure in front of, I felt like, I'm sure nobody really gave a shit. And but like, you feel like everyone's just kinda like, oh, saw that coming. And I mean, they were like that as well, but particularly my family. And they're like, oh, how surprising.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  When I was getting married, the first time, I tell my brother, and he lived in Australia, and he was like, Vogue, I can't, I can't make it back, but don't worry, I'll go to the next one.

• 35:25Fearne Cotton?

  Brilliant.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  And he did, he went to the next one.

• 35:28Fearne Cotton?

  That's amazing. But also, you know, you were in the public eye at this time, it was the sort of start of your relationship being in the public eye. I mean, it's not fun.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  It's really not fun.

• 35:40Fearne Cotton?

  It's not.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Do you know what, that was probably, I think, I think in this, in this relationship that I'm in now, it's probably, it feels almost worse, some of the stuff that, like, you're kind of dealing with. And back then, I suppose a breakup is easier, but when people are just like rumours and stuff flying around and like shit that you know is just untrue, and you just, you can't respond to it because it just makes it worse.

• 36:04Fearne Cotton?

  That's the pits.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  It's so frustrating.

• 36:07Fearne Cotton?

  And you have to ignore it, you have to ignore it, there's nothing, and you have to block out that noise, that incessant noise.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  And I can draw, and like, it affects you, no matter what you do, it will affect you and it will affect your relationship, and it's very difficult to go through something like that. But going through the breakup, I think it was just really embarrassing, and I was so glad when I'd kind of like gotten away from that and started, that's when I was like, I need to be single for a while, which I hated, and then I loved it, and I thought it was so empowering to be single and to just be on my own and figuring out life on my own and living on my own, well, I was living with a chicken, chicken fingers, but like just being, like, having to look after myself, I really enjoyed all of that and I liked it.

• 36:49Fearne Cotton?

  And how do you deal with just being in the public eye in general? You know, it's not an easy thing, having people, like you say, whether it's rumours or just thinking they know who you are, do you cope well with it?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I think we, like, and it's the same with Spenny, we really, we really have a small circle, we have a small circle of people that we spend a lot of time with, we spend a lot of time with our family and stuff like that, and we have really amazing friends and people that I can trust, like, with everything, with anything. So we just try and keep it like that, and any time that we kind of veer out of that is when stuff seems to go around, because I just think that certain times, people just, they're different to us, and we, I'd rather not be In the public eye in that sense. I have my friends outside of the public eye and when I'm, when I'm working and stuff like that, like I get on really well with everybody that I work with, but my friends are my friends since I've been 12.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  And they're kind of the people that I spend most of my time with and, and my family and stuff like that. And I think having that kind of safe space and that really like steady group of people around me is, is very helpful.

• 37:55Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, obviously you love like, I do, I absolutely love what I do, my job. I, I get a kick out of it. I spring out of bed most mornings. I feel incredibly lucky that I get to do something I feel passionate about. But that side of it, I really still struggle with after all of these, like, I don't know how long I've been as a teenager, sort of in and out of the public eye. And I, I mean, probably once a week I think, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to open a cat sanctuary and I'd be quite happy. I'm not even joking. Um, that would be so much nicer, but when you love what you do, it is just a downside to it.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is just part of it. And I think that you can kind of block it out to a point. And, and even with stuff online and social stuff, I, I just, I, I, I just try and ignore it because people will say things, people will like, what was that site again? The one that's just gone down tattle.

• 38:45Fearne Cotton?

  Oh God.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Like that is just, that just shows how dark people can be. And you have to kind of feel sorry for people like that, that just want to say horrible things about people they don't know for no reason. And I'd avoid all of that kind of stuff. I never really see it, but with my Instagram, I feel like, I don't know about you, but I've such a nice group of people following me and like, and as well.

• 39:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, this lot. Lovely. Look at them.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  You're all sent. Well, they're your followers.

• 39:12Fearne Cotton?

  Heavenly. They love you too. Otherwise I'd be doing yoga or something, wouldn't you?

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Not after what I've been saying about it.

• 39:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  But I think as well from doing podcasts, like that people get to see what you're actually like. And, and when people come up to me and they, and they listen to the pods and stuff like that, I'm like, I could probably go in the piss with you, like, cause they're just great fun. They're the same kind of like-minded people. So I feel like in that sense, I've found the people that are like, that I want to be around.

• 39:40Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I think people also know with you, like I love your podcast with Joanne. Joanne's been on Happy Place. I just think you two together are magic and I howl with laughter and you cover. Every topic, but people know that you're not bullshitting them. Like it's you're both being completely yourselves. You're always going to be honest when you're talking about a subject. Do you ever, because I think we're probably quite similar in that fact that I don't want to lie. I don't want to.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:06Fearne Cotton?

  Cover over the truth. I want to talk about things that I feel deeply passionate about, or I feel are important, or sometimes not important, but I'd rather just give it an honest take. Do you ever worry about that or regret things that you've said?

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, well, sometimes.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  I think when, when I do my podcast, well, with Joanna, I do one with my sister as well. We don't, I don't think you can try and not say stuff because the flow will be gone. Like we will talk for, we could do an hour of chatting and it gets cut down to a 40, 45 minute podcast. I listen back to all the edits and sometimes I'm like, Jesus, take that out. But sometimes, yeah, sometimes things get left in and I'm like, I don't really care. Like I said something about a lip flip the other day.

• 40:48Fearne Cotton?

  A what?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  A lip flip. So it's when you get botox just here, so your lip kind of goes, we've had a bit. But then I saw it written about and I was like, oh my God, they're basically making out like I've had a facelift or something. So there's certain things like that. I'm like, shit, I probably shouldn't have said that. And now I've said it again.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  But there's certain things that like I see in the papers and I'm like, oh God. I, there was, I think Spenny gets kind of the brunt of this because it's usually something about him. And I don't mean it, I, I only say it because it's quite funny. I said once that he overdosed on cold sore medication, but I thought he did. And then there was one article saying that he died and stuff. I was like.

• 41:26Fearne Cotton?

  Oh God.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  It had gone really far. So certain things like that, I'm like, I try not to involve too many other people now, just in case they get written about and they don't like it.

• 41:36Fearne Cotton?

  Well, because of course, when you say something with a certain cadence and tone and people are saying, oh, that is a joke. And then when it's in a paper, it's not, it's in black and white and you're like, oh no, I didn't mean it like that. You know, it's a whole other thing.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:49Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, do you care if people like you? This is something that I'm deeply fascinated about because I've had such a weird relationship with. People liking me or not. And I think at times it feels like in this job, it is survival. If you're not likeable, then you don't have a job. So it's sort of, it's more heavily weighted than it should be perhaps.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  I think, I think everybody wants to be liked. Like, no one wants to be disliked by people. You wanna be a nice person that people wanna be around. But, I mean, I don't mind if, like, not everybody is gonna like me.

• 42:19Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And like, I'd probably find me annoying sometimes.

• 42:23Fearne Cotton?

  I find myself annoying, and I'm me. Like, I do.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Sometimes, and I know that as well, because my, my brother and Spencer were bitching about me once and they sent it to our group. I was like, excuse me.

• 42:35Fearne Cotton?

  No, by mistake.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:38Fearne Cotton?

  What were they saying?

• 42:39Speaker 02

  God, she's asking about the bins again. I was like.

• 42:43Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  I know, because my brother used to live with me and I kicked him out. I didn't, I didn't kick him out, by the way. I loved him living there. But, uh, I don't, I, I think you do wanna be liked in a certain, like, you don't wanna be hated. Like, that'd be hard. Remember that fella, Nasty Nick? I don't know why he's come to my mind.

• 42:59Fearne Cotton?

  From Big Brother?

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Why is he in my head? But like, that must have been really hard for him.

• 43:06Fearne Cotton?

  Poor Nasty Nick.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Like, everything just gave, everyone just gave him so much shit. And it was like, he was playing a game. And it's like, you asshole. He was hated so badly. And I'd say that must have been really hard, or maybe he didn't give a shit.

• 43:21Fearne Cotton?

  I thought this story from Big Brother 20 years ago is living in your head, run free. You're just up at night worrying, is Nasty Nick okay? I can't get to sleep worrying about his wellbeing. Is he gonna be all right?

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Is he okay?

• 43:36Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know. Where, what's he doing? Probably panting somewhere, I should imagine, or something. Playing the bad guy, ob. Um, poor Nasty. No, I know, but I think as you get older, in that cliche sense, I'm sure many of you, you know, we have all, all different ages come to this festival and have a very interesting chat, especially with women who are older than me, who go, honestly, the older you get, you just care less. And it is a sort of cliche that is true, that as the older you get, you just care a bit less.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  You do. I think you become more comfortable with yourself. So, like, in my twenties, I'd obsess about, like, trying to have skinnier legs and like, just being, like, just not, kinda hating my body and all that, because I'm so tall, I hate it. I saw pictures of myself as well, so it was from like the age of 14, no one fancied me and the boys were like here and I was like this lurch beside them. And, and I think that when I got to like my 30s, kind of mid 30s, then you kind of just feel more comfortable, not only in yourself, but like your body and everything like that. And you're comfortable in what you're doing, you're kind of finding your feet a bit more in life. Well, in my twenties, I was wild. You were wild too.

• 44:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I'm glad that we did that. I'm happy for us.

• 44:43Fearne Cotton?

  I am. I'm, I'm really happy for us. We had so much fun.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  And there's no phones, so no one knows what we did.

• 44:53Fearne Cotton?

  Thank God. If social media had been around then, we would not be working.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  No, I don't think we would.

• 44:59Fearne Cotton?

  Nope.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Canceled. Were they still counseling people back then?

• 45:02Fearne Cotton?

  Probably, in a different way. But yeah, I am so glad. And also, I think, you know, this is the this is the interesting thing about wellbeing. I was having a chat with a 27 year old in the summer.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:13Fearne Cotton?

  And it's, I mean, I'm much older than that. And I was sort of absolutely, I, I, I was stunned hearing what she had to say. So obviously, back when I was in my twenties, it was sort of celebrated that you'd go out and get pissed off, like go to watch bands and, you know, go to the pub. And it was all part of that kind of culture, especially in London, there was like a big music scene and, and it was really celebrated. Now, apparently, and I don't know if this is just like a thing with, with my 27 year old friend and her mates, but apparently, this is a big red flag now for men. Like we've gone back to the 50s. And yeah, and, and they're like, if you see a girl behind a DJ booth, it's a red flag. She's not marriage material. We want a Palates queen

• 45:56Fearne Cotton?

  or whatever. And there's this whole thing where, yeah, where now people in their twenties are being sort of force fed this. And this is my problem with wellbeing. We're at a wellbeing festival, but I've got massive issues with it because I think wellbeing is just about feeling all right. I believe it is that simple. You don't have to be, be good at anything or stop going out and having fun or perbing that side of yourself at all. I think it can become so toxic when it's that extreme and one sided. And certainly in your twenties, like if you're in your twenties, any of you lovely lot, oh my God, go out on the piss. I mean, this is a dry festival, the irony. But when you've left here, feel free, go to the pub, have a great, we only have it as a dry

• 46:39Fearne Cotton?

  festival because it's not a great idea to do yoga when you're shitfaced.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:44Fearne Cotton?

  Or be in a meditation. Like, you know, freaking out whilst everyone's trying to have a peaceful time. That's the only reason. I'm not against drinking at all. But I think in your twenties, you've got to go for it. Have a great time. Have fun.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  I think though, even with my little brother, he's just turned thirty and they're like, he's very different to what I would have been like. Like, he drinks a little bit, but like, they don't really, him and his friends wouldn't go that wild, like, not as wild as I would have gone. They're kind of more about like, just not drinking and all that kind of stuff.

• 47:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think get it out of your system.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 47:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, me too.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  My mom read that book and she's like, what is wrong with you?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  You can't say that. I was like, oh Jesus, don't read chapter eleven, Sandra.

• 47:27Fearne Cotton?

  Oh Sandra, oh Sandra. I know, quite a thing for your mum to read that book. Quite a thing.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  I mean, I was, I was very worried about that because of all the stuff about my dad. And I warned her about it and I gave her the book first and obviously I had to get the legal written letters off anyone who's mentioned in the book, that they could be mentioned. And I think, she probably found it a bit difficult, but she was very nice about it.

• 47:50Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well, of course, you've written a book, something to be very, very proud of. Are you doing a book signing at some point, I'm assuming?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  I am, I'm doing a book signing over there.

• 47:57Fearne Cotton?

  So great, that's the book tent. So do get your book signed by Vogue. There's loads of brilliant authors in there all weekend, by the way. It's just, and there's some lovely, lovely books on sale, all of our Happy Place Book Club books, et cetera. I'd love to know where your happy place is, Vogue.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  I've just come from there and poor Espeny, I was like, we should consider it. Where I live in Ireland, I love it. It's on the cliffs. It's in a little place called Hoth and anyone who's from Hoth is obsessed with Hoth. And we, we think it's the only place to exist in the whole of Ireland. It's just really quiet, it's really calm. Everyone that I know since I was younger is there. My family's there and it's just, it's lovely. It's so nice, it's so relaxing.

• 48:38Fearne Cotton?

  What are your top things to do when you're there?

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Eat. So really good seafood restaurants, go on the cliff walk.

• 48:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Not in the afternoon, a lot of tourists. So I'd suggest very early morning walks. And I was gonna say sea swimming, but that would be a lie, but loads of people like that.

• 48:54Fearne Cotton?

  Ah, it looks great.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  It looks amazing.

• 48:57Fearne Cotton?

  It looks like they're having a fun time.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  I bought water shoes, I was like, this is the summer. This is it. It hasn't happened. It's now, and I'm making it sound really tranquil and amazing, but there are like 23 pubs in Hove and there's, I think there's 8,000 people. It's a very small peninsula. So like, if you go out there, like if you want to go out on the piss, it's a great place to go because it doesn't matter if you know nobody, someone will make friends with you. You'll end up at a party, you'll get home at four o'clock in the morning and you won't know how you got there.

• 49:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I love it.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  So it's quite fun like that.

• 49:28Fearne Cotton?

  Well, just because the Irish is so lovely and friendly and welcoming.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  We do, I kind of knock it back at me because I'm going back to London, but in Ireland you're like, hiya, hiya, hiya. And it's like, you don't know anyone, but you just say hello to everyone. But in London, they're like...

• 49:41Fearne Cotton?

  If you do that in London, people are like, what is wrong? Who are you? Why are you saying hello to me? Yeah. I think we do that up north. Why are you saying, yeah?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, you do.

• 49:49Fearne Cotton?

  Absolutely. Say hi to me. Correct. Beautiful thing. Well, thank you so much for being at the festival.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me. And thanks everyone for coming at 9am.

• 49:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, what a gorgeous crowd. We're so grateful. Have a lovely book signing and thank you so much for being on the podcast. Give it up for Vogue, William, everybody!

• 50:09Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Vogue. I love Vogue. I mean, I say this all the time, but I do believe me and Vogue could be best pals. I think we need to hang out. But I love that chat. The great thing about Vogue is, obviously because she has her own podcasts, she's incredibly good at storytelling. And I think that's also something to do with being Irish, because any of you Irish listeners, you are the best storytellers out there. And also she's just funny and engaging. And because she's a podcaster, she's extremely honest. You know, it's just, she tells the truth and she's incredibly authentic. That word's so overused, but my God, she really, really is. Thank you, Vogue. This is just the first of a number of high-energy chats that we had at Tatten Park Festival last week at the Happy Place Festival. So

• 50:53Fearne Cotton?

  keep an eye on your feed in the next few days because there's going to be a special live edition of the Happy Place Book Club podcast, and it's a really funny one. In the meantime, a massive thanks again to Vogue, to the producers of this episode, Anushka Tate and Basil Oxterby, and to you. You are the best.

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