Monty Don: Get out of your bubble! Immerse yourself in a new culture on holiday

What does a truly restful holiday look like to you? Do you want novelty or routine? Horticulturalist Monty Don relaxes most when he knows the drill: same Greek island, same terrace for breakfast, same collapsable travel kettle packed! Welcome to The Happy Place Guide To Holidays! In this chat with Fearne – brought to you by British Airways Holidays – Monty explains the difference between all the globe-trotting he does for work, and a proper switching-off holiday. They chat about the excitement of stepping off a plane into an entirely different culture, as well as why you won’t find either of them staying up late for a social dinner. Monty also explores why it was important to be one of the first people to talk about his mental health in the media decades ago, and what more still needs to be done to support those with depression. Plus, how does Seasonal Affective Disorder manifest for Monty? British Airways Holidays are ATOL protected, offer a 24hr holiday helpline, and allow you to book with a low deposit. All holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. Go to Ba.com/holidays http://Ba.com/holidays to find out more. Listen to other episodes of The Happy Place Guide To Holidays: Fearne’s holiday likes and dislikes https://pod.fo/e/43f08a Chris McCausland https://pod.fo/e/53a62b Sophie Ellis-Bextor https://pod.fo/e/490ff3 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to the Happy Place Guides to Holidays, brought to you by British Airways Holidays. I'm Fern Cotton and today I'm chatting to Monty Don.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  I relax most in the garden or in my workshop. If I'm doing something that needs my attention, but is not stressful in itself, or doesn't need other people's input. I lead a pretty busy life and with a lot of demands. It's the demands really. To me, resting is not having demands. I am choosing what to do. And if I choose to do something that's incredibly hard work, or demanding, or difficult, or stressful, that's fine because it's my decision.

• 0:37Fearne Cotton?

  The Happy Place Guides to Holidays is the series where we remind ourselves why holidays matter so much and how we can do our best to get the most out of them. Whatever a great holiday looks like to you. And it does look slightly different to all of us. We've all got our own idea of what makes a truly brilliant holiday. But whatever or wherever that might be, I reckon we can all still take things to the next level. So this is the series where we can be a bit nosey about how other people do it and hopefully pick up some tips along the way. I am so looking forward to chatting to horticulturalist Monty Don because he has had quite an intriguing approach to holidays. He obviously travels a lot for work,

• 1:21Fearne Cotton?

  so he has to make a really clear distinction between enjoying new places for work and enjoying them in holiday mode. We also, by the way, talk about his approach to his mental health. And he talks very honestly about how unable to talk about depression he felt at first. It's really useful stuff. You're going to love this one.

• 2:03Fearne Cotton?

  Monty Don, hello.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 2:05Fearne Cotton?

  How are you?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  I'm fine. I'm good.

• 2:07Fearne Cotton?

  Good. Well, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. We've got lots to discuss. I've wanted to chat to you for a long time for many reasons. One is that you were one of the first people in the public eye to write about mental health, which is a topic I am hugely invested in personally, within the work that I do with Happy Place. I think it's super important that we have storytelling around mental health. And you wrote an article back in 2000 about your mental health for The Observer. I'm imagining that that was, I don't know, felt exposing or felt vulnerable doing it?

• 2:42Speaker 01

  You do. I did feel exposing and vulnerable, but I realised, no, it sounds pretentious to say it was important. I felt it was something I ought to do. I felt it was a duty about it because I was very aware that men, certainly back then and even now, were not talking about mental health. I mean, the classic story is, I've written about this a lot. My wife made me go to a doctor. She said, you know, we can't put up with this any longer. You're impossible to live with, which was fine and was true. So I went to the doctor and said, my knee hurts. And then the doctor said, okay, let's look at your knee. Fine, well, that seems to be okay. Anything else you want to talk about? At which point I burst into tears. Because it was just the relief, you know. In other words, I was completely inarticulate about it.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  I couldn't talk about it. And I did, and gradually I did, and you know, I put on medication, one thing or another. And that was about, oh, five or six years before I wrote that article. So I realised that you needed to talk about it. And if my job was communication, this, which was such a central part of my life, needed to be communicated about.

• 3:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, did you have any idea to what extent you were sort of expressing your depression, your low mood to everybody else? Because I had a really similar thing where a friend of mine said, enough's enough. She actually took me to a doctor. And I didn't realise it was that bad. I thought, oh, I'm just going through a tough patch. I hadn't realised how to the outside world that looked, or even how bad I felt actually.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  No, I think for a long time, certainly since my teen years, I'd had these very sort of dark periods when I felt like grieving really. That's what it felt like. I felt incredibly sad all the time. And I would cover it. I'm a bloke. I would just cover it up and carry on. And you know, if I drank too much or something, it would come out. But basically, I suppressed it and covered it up. And it wasn't really until Sarah and probably lots of other people said, you're just impossible to be with. And what you realise, it wasn't just me slightly romanticising being sort of sad and feeling things too much.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  I was actually irritable, bad-tempered all the time, nothing ever pleased, nothing was ever right. My body was falling apart, you know, mentally and physically. I was just not in a good place at all. Whereas I think, I mean, I'm looking back, but I think probably I slightly romanticised it. And also, when it was really bad, I never saw the future. I never saw me being part of any future. So I was wrapped up. You get, I mean, one of the worst things about depression is incredibly self-centred. You become, you're only interested in yourself.

• 5:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  And that makes you a very boring person apart from anything else, you know.

• 5:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  And that to sort of connect to other people, and that I think is part of the writing about it, you're just connecting.

• 5:47Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm imagining that that was a deep connection with your readers, that you had a huge response to that.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, what did happen, and subsequently, you know, I've talked about it on the radio, I've talked about it on the internet, I've written books, I wrote a book about it. The thing that keeps me doing it is not to say, look at me, how much I've been suffering.

• 6:02Fearne Cotton?

  God, no.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  It's because the response I get from people who have been too frightened to own up to it or to talk about it, or not known who they could talk about it to. Invariably, you get those responses and you think, well, I'm for them. I have to be a voice.

• 6:19Fearne Cotton?

  Without a doubt. And do you know what sort of kept you suppressing, whether it was you acknowledging how bad it was personally or reaching out and saying to your wife or a friend, I am really not in a good headspace. What stopped you doing it?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I don't think, we talked about mental health in that way. You were either a loony, you went, you know, I don't think anybody had that conversation.

• 6:42Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  You know, it wasn't there. And you might be saying, you know, you would say something, oh, perk up, you're looking, you know, you're... And there were examples. There was Churchill's black dog and there were various things. But I don't think it was in the sort of general province. It wasn't something you talked about down the pub or you talked about when you played football or tennis or whatever it was you did. Don't forget, men in particular, they don't sit and chat very much about themselves. And I don't think that's changed.

• 7:11Fearne Cotton?

  It hasn't.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  And certainly the way I was brought up, which was very conventional, Middle England, boarding school from the age of seven, all that sort of thing. You suppressed your feelings always, you know. And that was all just part of it.

• 7:26Fearne Cotton?

  That's why I think it's deeply powerful that you so early on in this discussion around mental health thought, this is worth the risk, I'm going to do it. And like you say, before we had the language essentially, phrases like black dog were used, which is sort of like a way of going, there's a problem, but I'm not going to give it a proper name. And then now we have, you know, names and labels and diagnoses that I think are mostly helpful.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  They are. I mean, if you talk to anybody in the profession, I mean, what is shocking is we still don't know much about how the brain works. I mean, there are a lot of drugs that are helpful, but no one knows quite how they work. You know, they can make the chemical connections, but they don't quite know what's going on in the brain. So there's still a lot to learn. And I certainly increasingly connect mental health with physical health, with what you eat, with what you, you know, everything. The whole, everything being very holistic about the whole thing. But I think above all, I see myself as a communicator in various mediums and media.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  And if I can communicate about that and feel I'm doing something that needs to be said, I've always spoken, I've always talked too much. My mother said, from the moment I could speak, I never stopped. And certainly if you spoke to my wife, I just talked too much. And so in a sense, writing is talking. Television is talking. What we're doing now is talking. So I like articulating what I'm feeling or seeing or experiencing, whether it's on the page or on the screen or across the office. So in a sense, that's what I do, you know. It's, so it was natural to do that. I mean, other people would write a bit of music about it

• 9:16Speaker 01

  or would paint about it or go and, you know, chop wood about it or whatever it might be, but that's how I express myself.

• 9:24Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I'm the same. It almost makes it real. I don't know. I need to go that full circle.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  No, I completely understand and agree with that. Is that, and this is, is that I need to share something in order to make it real. But then I'm a twin, you see. And I think that might be to do with it.

• 9:41Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. And what do you think that connection is then?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Because literally from my first consciousness, I've shared with somebody. And so from the womb, up until I went away to boarding school, we were never apart. Everything we did was a shared experience, whether it was breakfast, school, having a bath, getting up in the morning, you know, anything, anything. Snow, rain, dogs.

• 10:05Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  So that I think that, although in fact my twin and I are very different people, we're brother and sister, we're not identical, we're completely different people. We're almost opposites. That experience shapes how you see the world and do the... And I think that's true of my relationships I've had. You're always looking for a soulmate. You know, I mean, there's all kinds of things going on. But at the same time, and I think that for me, yeah, I can't really experience anything that matters to me without wanting to share it.

• 10:41Fearne Cotton?

  I totally get that. I mean, I don't have the excuse of being a twin, but I just need to say the thing. And I'm not very good at, I'm not very good at not exposing the truth about stuff or things that I believe to be true. I like to dig around in it and try and work it out with words. And but I also like, I love writing, I also like painting. I don't know if I find that translates in quite the same way. I maybe try to get that feeling of bringing it to life.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  I think we're all, most of us are better at some things than others. So you find the medium that suits you. So for me, it's always been words. And I do like lots of other things, but I know I'm not as good at it.

• 11:26Fearne Cotton?

  Is gardening communicating?

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Well, gardening plots, no, no, it isn't actually. No, it is communicating with nature.

• 11:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  But that's private, that's between me and, that's between me and me. Gardening for me has always been healing. It's always been about, I mean, literally getting back to earth, getting back to, to the ground, what matters. And completely solves a lot of problem. I mean, you know, one of the ways, and I have to say, by and large now, I avoid bad depressive episodes. I've learnt how to see the triggers and ward them off at the past sort of thing.

• 12:06Fearne Cotton?

  And, and how are you doing that?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Well, it's just old age, you know, I just now recognise the symptoms. I, I, I avoid situations that I think are bad.

• 12:15Fearne Cotton?

  Which might be what?

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, for example, I can't cope, never have been able to, with too much social interaction.

• 12:23Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  You know, so I don't like big parties, or at least I only like them with friends.

• 12:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, same.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  You know, I do, I mean, what's weird is I'm really happy on a stage in front of thousands of people.

• 12:35Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  But you see, I think that's because.

• 12:38Fearne Cotton?

  There's rules.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  There's rules and you're in control and you're not, you know, whereas if I have to go to a, you know, I mean, various things one has to do.

• 12:50Fearne Cotton?

  Work party.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, not good. So there's that and I avoid those and, you know, you get all night, you say, actually, no, I love you, but I'm not coming to your party.

• 12:58Fearne Cotton?

  Correct, love that.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  I went to a party on Saturday night with people I love dearly and we slipped away very early.

• 13:06Fearne Cotton?

  You did a little secret exit, I love that, just a backward walk out, don't make eye contact with anyone, never say goodbye.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  No, that's fatal, fatal. And we, I think also, I know for me that I get exhausted, I'm, I find it really hard to rest.

• 13:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  So when I'm, the more tired I am, the more sensitive I am, the more fragile I am.

• 13:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  So there comes, I now know, stop, go to bed, you know, tomorrow will be another day, just, or just let things go a bit.

• 13:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think we're very similar in temperament, because if I'm in a social environment, I am so sapped from, that all my energy is just seeping out of me in that transaction with lots of other people. I am useless the next day, or even after I've left, I have to sort of sit in silence, or even if I were to do, I don't know, three of these interviews in a day. You know, we've got the, the crew and the team, I, I am knackered.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  But you see, and I mean, I find that, I mean, I, I really enjoy filming, I've always enjoyed filming.

• 14:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  But I like it best when I'm with people I know.

• 14:14Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm, me too.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You know, if you go and film, last week I was filming up in Lancashire with incredibly nice people and they were very impressive. I didn't know any of them, it was quite a big crew. And I thought, well, okay, that was fine for a day, but I wouldn't want to do more than that.

• 14:28Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Whereas when I go off for two, three weeks with people, I know them, I've known them for years, we, I know when not to say anything.

• 14:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, and I think that's part of it, isn't it, knowing you can sit in a long car journey and not speak and no one's judging you or thinking, oh god, Monty Don's a bit quiet, what's wrong with him? I completely agree and I'm deeply fascinated by people that are boosted by social situations where they get charged up. I am envious, I am not that person.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  But I do not think that's something to do with being a performer. That if you, because you are creating the rules by putting yourself in front, you're actually putting a distance between you and everybody else.

• 15:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And that's probably subconscious, I mean, I don't think it's something you deliberately choose to do, but you're just, and part of that is not admirable. I mean, I, I, I'm not particularly saying that's a good thing at all, but it's a fact.

• 15:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I completely agree. It's interesting when you get to know yourself properly and you can start to honour what you know works and doesn't.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  I think that's all part of, of, of health too, you get to know yourself, you know what works, you know what is bad for you. And in time, if you're lucky and with help, you learn to manage the situation.

• 15:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you've also got seasonal affective disorder, so there are triggers that are cyclical that you're going to have to face every October, November, December.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Funny enough, when it's bad, July and August can be really bad because there is this sense of things slipping away.

• 15:56Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's already, the days are already getting shorter.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  We're okay, but, but what I'm saying is, November, December, I've always hated as months and I've, all my adult life, I thought, I'm going to spend my winters abroad in the sun. I don't care how hot or cold it is, just in the sun, I never have done yet, I'm in my seventies and I've never done it yet.

• 16:15Fearne Cotton?

  Why do you think you haven't?

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Because I've always been either too busy or there've been dogs or children or, you know, just life stuff.

• 16:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, so how do you manage, because you know it's coming, so what do you do?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  I, well, the route, pattern of my life is I tend to be really busy filming from March through till October. So I, that, you know, I'm busy and I'm outside and doing things. And then November, December, January, February, I normally write.

• 16:42Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  So I completely change my lifestyle, I spend a lot of time indoors, I hole up, I wear the same clothes every day. I only shave when I feel like it, you know, what have you, in other words, I'm not putting on, I'm entirely private.

• 16:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  I hardly, occasionally I have to go and do things, I have to remember what it's like, you know, you, what, what you have to do to be that person. And I just focus on the project.

• 17:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  And, I mean, you know, you've written books, it, it's, there comes a point with any book, when there's an exciting period of planning it and thinking about it.

• 17:14Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  And that's very exciting.

• 17:16Fearne Cotton?

  And you've got to do it.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  And then you start to do it and after about a week or two, you think, this is just so bad, it's so embarrassing, you know. And then there comes a point which is the sweet spot, when you can't think about anything else at all and you're just flowing.

• 17:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  And that's not to do with speed, it's just, and that for me has never lasted more than about 10 days, two weeks.

• 17:39Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  And then after that, it's, you know it's happening, it's just procedure.

• 17:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  You go to work and you finish it.

• 17:45Fearne Cotton?

  And that sort of routine manages to sort of get you through those winter months.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that means that I'm, I'm at work and I go to work every day and I do it like a job.

• 17:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  You know, I'm at my desk and, and, and I walk the dogs and I do garden and, and, you know, make it a point of going outside and all that sort of thing. And, you know, life goes on, I have grandchildren and, and, and family and one thing or another. But then suddenly, when you get to January, snowdrops are appearing, acenotes are appearing, the days are getting inching just a little bit longer and longer and longer. And I'm one of these people who actually rather likes January and February, because it's getting better.

• 18:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  It's not good, but it's getting better.

• 18:26Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  And I don't mind bad weather, that doesn't bother me at all, you know, it's, it's lack of light I don't like. Whereas November, December, there's practically nothing good to say about them in my book. I like Christmas because it's near the end.

• 18:40Fearne Cotton?

  Right, got you, I totally understand, I mean, I, I do really like November and December because when it gets dark at four, I think, right, I can shut shop for the day, lovely. It gives me the excuse to do nothing.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  I do know that feeling, absolutely. And whereas at this time of year, I think, I mean, I will be out in the garden till nine.

• 18:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you feel like you have to.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Exactly, why can't I just go to do it?

• 19:02Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly, I went for a walk at eight PM last night because I was like, I must make the most of this lovely sunny day.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Actually, you see, how I like to, I now take great pleasure in going to bed at sort of half past nine on a, on a July evening, when it's still light.

• 19:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, lovely.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  And I don't care about that at all.

• 19:19Fearne Cotton?

  No, nor me, I love going to bed early, it's my favourite thing. Now, in these podcasts, I often speak to people who say, do you know what, I wish I took more holidays, but I don't think that's going to be your response to this topic.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  No, it isn't, I mean, when I was thinking about this podcast, I thought, how, I'm, I'm such a sort of contrary, cantankerous person when it comes to holidays. I have never in my life thought about a holiday, literally, never, which does not say I haven't taken holidays.

• 19:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  But I think if I was left to my own devices, I'd never take a holiday.

• 19:56Fearne Cotton?

  Is that because you are satiated with work travel, that gives you the hits of travel?

• 20:00Speaker 01

  For the last, when did I start doing the holiday programme? Ninety-two or three, so what's that, that's the last thirty-three years, I have travelled a lot.

• 20:11Fearne Cotton?

  A lot.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  A lot, a lot, a lot. So for example, the holiday programme, which I did for about four, five years, I think I worked out something like eighty-two trips.

• 20:19Fearne Cotton?

  Whoa.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Now, not all of them were to the far flung fields, you know, some of them were to Tainmouth or wherever, but the vast majority were meant getting on a plane and going to visit places. And some of them were at Jouris and some of them were distinctly not, but you travelled, you travelled a lot. And the name of the programme, I mean, they were all superficially about holidays, although as you all know, actually, they could be quite hard work.

• 20:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  So I saw a lot of places and up until that point, I hadn't travelled very much. I mean, my wife Sarah was a great traveller and when I met her, she'd lived in New Guinea and she'd hitched like round Europe and, you know, done all that, whereas I'd barely been out of Basings though. But I did live in France for eight months when I was nineteen and I was learning French and I was gardening and, and doing things there. But the first overseas holiday I ever went on, I was twenty-six.

• 21:12Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  That was with Sarah.

• 21:15Fearne Cotton?

  And where did you go, where was your first trip?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  We went to Venice.

• 21:19Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, gorgeous.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  We went to Venice for ten days and blew a huge sum of money.

• 21:23Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I bet.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  And it was fantastic, it was absolutely fantastic, I loved it and I've been back many times since. And then the first sort of sun holiday I went on. Well, it's about two years later, we went, I remember, where did we go? We went, it wasn't Mykonos, we went to Coz.

• 21:41Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  We went to Coz, in the days when there were no tourists going there.

• 21:44Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  I remember there were just sort of two hotels.

• 21:47Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's quite a clubby destination. I mean, there's quiet bits, I know, but it's quite a clubby place.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  I'm talking, that would have been, what, forty five years ago?

• 21:54Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  So, you know, a long time ago.

• 21:57Fearne Cotton?

  So with travel for work, because obviously you do these beautiful shows where you go and look at extraordinary gardens all around the world in really special places. When you're headed to film one of those shows, what do you think makes a place very special? So I'm imagining you want to turn up somewhere and go, wow.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think when you arrive, everybody has that thing, you come out the plane and you, there's a sensation of the air. Is it, is it hot? Does it hit you like a wall? You know, is it cold? Is there a, that, that, the otherness of the air.

• 22:30Fearne Cotton?

  I love it.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  I remember going to New York for the first time in about eighty three or four. And on the car from the airport, looking at the trees and thinking, I wonder if they've got the same trees as us, you know, what are they? And it's the otherness that you're looking for. So the most depressing thing is to go, you suddenly could be anywhere. I mean, anywhere is no, and of course, modern airports are a bit like that. All the airports we like are the ones that we remember.

• 22:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  That are distinctive, either got great architecture or got quirky things, you know.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  And so that matters, but I think when you're trying, you're looking at food, I always try and eat local food.

• 23:05Fearne Cotton?

  Lovely.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Usually with disastrous results.

• 23:08Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, no.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and there's that thing, you know, when you're filming with a crew, you, when you, we always go with a light. So when you're filming gardens, you've got to have the best light. So depending what time of year it is, you may well have to start filming at six.

• 23:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  And then what we nowadays, because budgets are low, in the old days, you would have, you know, you'd turn up somewhere about sort of four in the afternoon, do a recce, film a bit until it got dark, go back the next morning, you know, film a bit, and then maybe pick up at night. Nowadays, you're lucky if you just do one garden in a day.

• 23:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  So, so you might well film from six till nine, say, have some breakfast, get in a vehicle, drive three hours and then film another garden and hopefully get some good light later in the day. So you're, you're looking at, I mean, for me very much, it's, it's what does this actually look like? Vegetation, what's growing? And obviously it's different, you know, I mean, I filmed in the middle of the Amazon, I've been in the Arctic Circle, I've been sort of in the outback, you know, all the time. Because it's always gardens, there is a theme that runs through it, but it's different, so you want. And that, the different food, the different languages, and I'm terrible at languages, by the way.

• 24:16Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, me too.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  So, but I'm listening and I'm, I'm hearing, but I'm not really understanding, but it's all part of it.

• 24:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, what, where really stands out? What's, what's stuck with you?

• 24:27Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh, so many places. I mean, I think Japan is extraordinary.

• 24:30Fearne Cotton?

  I'd love to go to Japan.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Well, I've done three filming trips to Japan and I would willingly do more. It's just such a different culture, that's the thing, you know, it's, I keep going back to this. The truth is, every trip I do, it's usually the last one. I mean, I remember having one wonderful week, not so long ago, about three, four years ago, filming in Venice, when we just visited Venetian gardens, all Venetian gardens are hidden. They're all, you, you know, you can go to Venice and not really realise there are any gardens at all. So you're going behind walls, down little canals, and we stayed in not a fancy hotel, but it was really perfectly nice. And I had a little room at the top, which became my sort of base camp. And you literally stepped from this door, from the breakfast room, into a boat.

• 25:13Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  So there was no street involved at all. And we had this big boat, which was a barge, I mean, it wasn't fancy, but it was big enough for the whole crew and the kit, which was our home for the day, and we had it for a week. And we just explored Venice with guides and, and this sense of really getting to know somewhere. And since, and I've been there a number of times before and I'm, so that was a really good filming week. I mean, you know, going, I think the coast of Chile was incredibly beautiful, I'd like to go back there. But then, I mean, everywhere, I go to beautiful gardens, so it's all beautiful. But I think in tons of places, I love Italy.

• 25:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  I go to Greece a lot, that's where I tend to go on holiday, but it's usually connected with gardens. Italy, I love Italian food very much, so it's, but, you know, China, I've been to China, I mean, the extraordinary thing of having a disgusting breakfast in a Chinese hotel and thinking, this is great. Because it's so interesting, you know.

• 26:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  You're obviously like, do you think this is edible? Well, there's nothing, you know, try, give it a go. And, and then I remember also, just in China, seeing, and this was what, two thousand and, early two thousand and seven, seeing a power station being built and a sort of high speed train going by and someone ploughing with oxen next to it.

• 26:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  All these different things going on at once. And you think, I'm at this moment in history, you know, which, which is really a privilege, but I love New Zealand.

• 26:44Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I've not been to New Zealand.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Go in our December and the light is unbelievable.

• 26:50Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Unbelievably beautiful country.

• 26:53Fearne Cotton?

  That's on my, that's on my hit list.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  I mean, South Africa is probably one of the most beautiful places on this earth.

• 27:00Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm, I went for the first time this year.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Really?

• 27:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I loved it.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been a few times and driving, or even if you drive from Cape Town across to Stellenbosch and across the mountains, go that way or up through the Drakensberg Mountains, driving from Durban to Johannesburg, so beautiful.

• 27:16Fearne Cotton?

  So beautiful, yeah, we did Stellenbosch, and it was just, the expanse of horizon was overwhelming, it was so beautiful.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  It is incredible.

• 27:24Fearne Cotton?

  I love, like, like you were just saying, you're in China, you're eating something completely random. I love that feeling of being in a completely different place, like you say, that the otherness of a different place, the air, the food, the whole thing. And being reminded that we can step out of our own little bubbles, our own little worlds, our own routines. There's something about that that I find really inspiring, like, oh wait, I don't have to always do the same shit, like every day.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  No, and also realising that for them, that is the norm.

• 27:54Fearne Cotton?

  That's their norm, yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  That's their bubble. And so it's not, oh, look at us, we're studying, we're stepping out into this extraordinary strange world. Actually, it's not, you're going to their normal.

• 28:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, I love that.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  And if they came to your life, it would be weird and exotic.

• 28:08Fearne Cotton?

  Totally.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  The thing that always exemplifies that for me is, you know, when you go to a hotel and there are a lot of Japanese tourists and at breakfast, you know how, and especially if you're filming, you're sort of in a bar filming, everyone's coming in and doing their stuff. And Japanese, you often see loading their breakfast plates with sort of cornflakes, fried egg, croissant, maybe a sort of, you know, the whole thing on one plate, you're thinking, how weird is that? How is that? Go to Japan, you understand why, because at breakfast, the idea is to have seven different things on your plate.

• 28:41Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  And so you have these, often with sort of like school dinner plates with, with compartments, and you have a bit of seaweed and you maybe have a bit of egg or something, lots of different things. And culturally, it's completely normal

• 28:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  to have lots of different tastes and flavours on the same plate.

• 28:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  It's weird, we who are odd to them.

• 29:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we're so basic, we're like a piece of toast and then I might go back for something else after. We're the weird ones.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  And you layer it, you do it in succession. So I think, I think it's, I mean, for me, the huge privilege of being able to travel the world and seeing how other people live. I remember when I, I did a series called Around the World in Eighty Gardens, which was the first big one. And that was, you know, it was eighteen months doing that.

• 29:24Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  And something like, I think it was about thirteen trips, each one of about two or three weeks. So it was quite a big project. And going to the head of BBC Two and saying, I think it's a pretty crappy title, Around the World in Eighty Gardens, you know, it's a bit drivel. He said, listen, we are gonna do a series called Around the World in Eighty Gardens. If you wanna do it, fine, if not, someone else will.

• 29:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Okay, I was put back in my box. But, he said, what I want from it is to get under the skin of a culture through its gardens. And ever since then, that's what I try and do.

• 29:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  So it's not just about gardens.

• 29:59Fearne Cotton?

  It's the storytelling around it.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It's about, you know, what's happening here, why, what's, what's the history, what's, it's stories, as you say.

• 30:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  It's always stories.

• 30:07Fearne Cotton?

  I love that. So outside of your extensive travel for work, what is a holiday for you? Where do you go?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  I go to two places. We have a farm in the Black Mountains in Wales, which is only an hour away from us.

• 30:21Fearne Cotton?

  Lovely.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  So our holiday home is an hour away. And so, you know, I might, well, you know, one week I might spend three days there, I might not go for three weeks because someone else is managing the farm, but I'm always in touch and what's going on. So a real luxury is to go and spend a week or ten days there.

• 30:38Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, lovely.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  And there is no, no work connection there at all. I used to occasionally, occasionally I've done Zooms from there, but not very often, probably three or four times.

• 30:49Fearne Cotton?

  But I'm imagining not totally relaxing, because you've got, you've got livestock, you've got, yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but I relax by working.

• 30:55Fearne Cotton?

  Right, yes.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  I relax by doing things.

• 30:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  So to me, to get on a tractor all day or to go and plant trees or to chop firewood is relaxing.

• 31:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so you're not, you're not wanting a book on a sun lounger?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  No, well, it has been known for about an hour or two.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  I, you know, I mean, I read a lot, but not, I find, and this is where it's still, because Sarah loves a sun lounger.

• 31:20Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  And, and, you know, she's got used to me and, but we're not really very compatible in that way.

• 31:27Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Occasionally, not so much now, when the children were little and we had a bit more hope, we would go away for sort of somewhere, anything between four and six days, get in a plane and go to Portugal or the Canaries or something like, and just rest.

• 31:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Just flop.

• 31:44Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  So barely leave the hotel.

• 31:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but your, your brain is the sort of brain that needs to be doing to kind of flatline.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and I, that's fine, I mean, I relax most in the garden or in my workshop or as I say, if I'm doing something that needs my attention, but is not stressful in itself or, or doesn't need other people's input. I mean, I, it always sounds so pathetic, but I lead a pretty busy life and with a lot of demands. It's the demands really. So to me, resting is not having demands.

• 32:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so that you can, I am choosing what to do. And if I choose to do something that's incredibly hard work or demanding or difficult or stressful, that's fine, because it's my decision.

• 32:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and the outcome, there's no one judging it or saying you haven't done this correctly.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  And also, I really like, I realise, I mean, when I was coming here today and thinking about it.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Goes back to my rather sort of neurodiverse mentality. I, I like to know where things are. I like to, I really like knowing where the bread knife is. And I really like sort of having the coffee I like.

• 32:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  And, and all that sort of stuff. It's not fancy, you know, but, but so therefore I'm very happy on the farm. You know, everything, the great luxury we have, the huge sort of result of, of earning enough money is that we can kit out a second house exactly as we want it.

• 33:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  And leave it.

• 33:19Fearne Cotton?

  I am exactly the same, but what I do is even if I'm going on like a little trip with the kids or whatever, I take my own pillow, my own instant coffee, because I only like instant coffee. I take my own mug, because I'm really specific about the mug.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  I'm teased on all filming shoots. I take my own mug.

• 33:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  I take tea bags.

• 33:36Fearne Cotton?

  I don't want a weird shaped mug.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  I take green tea bags.

• 33:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  And chamomile tea bags. So you don't need milk.

• 33:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, heaven.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  And it's, I sometimes take a kettle if I'm going to places where I don't know.

• 33:46Fearne Cotton?

  I've got a mini travel one, a cylinder one.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  I've got one of those too.

• 33:49Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Uh, I've got a collapsible kettle. It collapses.

• 33:53Fearne Cotton?

  What?

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Yep. It is such a thing.

• 33:55Fearne Cotton?

  I am Googling that immediately.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  And I take, no, no, I have to have, I don't take my own pillow because that doesn't matter, but you have to take what matters to you.

• 34:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, a lot of things matter to me.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  But make it, and I'm endlessly teased about that, but, but.

• 34:11Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:11Fearne Cotton?

  When I was doing this TV show, we were going to like, I don't know, Yorkshire for a night and everyone's got a tiny holdall. And I'm wheeling a massive suitcase of all my shit.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  There is that, but also I think if you're in front of the camera, you have to have duplicates. So for example, I never buy one of anything.

• 34:30Fearne Cotton?

  Right, yeah. And mine was less clothes and more just like stuff from my house that I did for myself. So look, let's, let's talk about taking holidays seriously. How do you do that? What does that mean for you?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Well, I'm lucky in so much that the last, what, 12 years or so, I've, I've gone to the same place in Greece every time. So I know what's needed. So what we need to do is obviously we're going to Athens to, to fly in and then we have to get a boat or a car. I try and only take hand luggage. What, what happens is.

• 35:02Fearne Cotton?

  Terrifying thought.

• 35:03Speaker 01

  It's a terrifying thought and doesn't always work.

• 35:05Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  If someone else is taking luggage, I always take carry on luggage too, because there's no point. You're still going to have to wait for them.

• 35:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, exactly.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  Um, so nearly always go with friends because it's their place. And I, I leave there. I always leave some shirts and shoes and things. So I have my own sort of stash there. I think, I've, I've learnt from travel. Get the earliest flight you possibly can. So I very often stay at Heathrow.

• 35:31Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, really?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. So because we live miles from, from Heathrow.

• 35:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Um, it's sort of, you have to allow three hours.

• 35:37Fearne Cotton?

  Be like the early flight?

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I stay at a hotel at Heathrow.

• 35:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Arrive at 10 o'clock at night.

• 35:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Pay an inordinate amount of money for what is just a bed, because you know, you're not a, but.

• 35:47Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Get up at five or half past four, or whatever it is, check in and get the earliest flight of the day.

• 35:54Fearne Cotton?

  Wow. I like the civilized, I'm, I prefer like a ideally 10am flight.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  Trouble is that takes up the whole day.

• 36:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  Whereas if you get the seven o'clock flight, and okay, you're a bit short on sleep, you can sleep on the plane, you can sleep.

• 36:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Get the seven o'clock flight. Uh, now with Greece, it's two hours ahead. So it's a three hour flight. So it's five hours anyway.

• 36:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, you've lost a lot of the day.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  You've lost a lot of the day. But it means if we can get the seven o'clock flight, then get a car to Piraeus to get the boat, which takes, getting off the plane, getting the car, you have an hour and a half or so. But it means that, and then the boat is about an hour and a half, two hours. It means you can arrive about sort of five in the evening.

• 36:33Fearne Cotton?

  Lovely.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Still hot.

• 36:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  You can, you arrive at the port, there are no cars, it's only donkeys. You can sit, before going to the house is, is only four minutes walk away.

• 36:46Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, lovely.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  So before going to the house, you can just sit there, bar, have a, have whatever it is you want.

• 36:50Fearne Cotton?

  Dreamy.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Go to the house, everything's there and there's a garden there that I've been helping make.

• 36:55Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, wow.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I always go to garden.

• 36:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, I love that.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  But so there's, um, that's me doing something. It's still a doing. And I love it. I mean, the point is, is it, it sounds sort of rather smug, but I happen to really love what I do.

• 37:10Fearne Cotton?

  How brilliant.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  So it's not, it's not work that.

• 37:14Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I would do it anyway.

• 37:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  I always say if I, if I work less, I garden more, not the other way around. So, um, there's that. But at the same time, I know the guy who sells, sells the best bread. I know where the shop that has the oranges that come in and the peaches. You know, there's, there's people you meet, hello, how are you? How are the children? I like all that.

• 37:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I do.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  And I know that for a lot of people, they go on holiday to explore. I explore through work.

• 37:42Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly. You've ticked that off the list already. Okay. So that's how you take holidays seriously. What's the best decision you've ever made on holiday?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  When we were in Venice, back in 1980, the first holiday Sarah and I ever had together, mailing for more money. In those days, there were no credit cards. You had traveller's checks.

• 38:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  We spent all our traveller's checks and we took a lot. And bearing in mind, we had no money. I mean, this is the point. And I had just got a grant and I worked out that I could get access to that grant from Venice. If I, so I remember we decided to mail our bank and we had to wait 24 hours. So we had no money for 24 hours.

• 38:26Fearne Cotton?

  God, what palaver.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  So we didn't eat for 24 hours.

• 38:29Fearne Cotton?

  In Venice?

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Uh, in Venice. So we had the hotel. We didn't, that was okay because we didn't have to, you know, we, we didn't have to pay for that until the end of the day. So we decided, okay, we will risk it. Instead of when we ran out of money going home, we mailed for more money. And I think something like another 500 quid came through and we blew it, of course. And of course, bearing in mind, this is 1980, so 500 quid is probably the equivalent of about what, three, four grand, something like that. Yeah.

• 38:55Fearne Cotton?

  I love that decision.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:57Fearne Cotton?

  Slightly reckless, but in the funnest way.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Because it was just, it was such a combination of, it was the first trip we were away together, you know, so we, and we were young and it, you know, still are.

• 39:07Fearne Cotton?

  So exciting.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  But it, it was wonderful. And also Venice, you know, and the Biennale was on. And so it just felt the most romantic place in the world, which it is of course.

• 39:17Fearne Cotton?

  It's so gorgeous. And where is your holiday happy place? It might not be a place. It could be a little moment or a scene that you can really picture.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  On the terrace of this house we stay in, on this Greek island, which is going to be nameless because I don't want everyone else going to it. My friend's house is on two levels and you go up steps and then there is a kind of terrace with a kitchen and a bedroom and a sitting room and things leading off it. It's a very beautiful house. And on that terrace, having breakfast, very leisurely, but, but you know, and we were all having breakfast and having that, knowing there's no time. You can have the third cup of coffee if that's what you want. With the sun coming up, if it's very hot, protected because there's a thing over the top. And it, it could be March and, and the sun, it's still, that to me, I know I'm on holiday.

• 40:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  I know. It's the beginning of the day. I might spend the day gardening. I might, we might go off on a boat somewhere. We might, the point is it doesn't matter.

• 40:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  It's up to you.

• 40:17Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  And it's that, that I'm such a day person, not a night person anyway. So it's the beginning of the day.

• 40:23Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. I'm morning all the way. I lose my personality at about 7pm.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Interestingly, on holiday, the thing I find most difficult is when it's really hot. We, and as I say, I mean, we tend, and I know people on this side, so you very often you meet people for dinner or whatever. So it's really very, very rarely just Sarah and I. If it's very hot, you tend not to go and eat until nine or 10. It's so hot otherwise, because you always go and eat outside and it's, and I struggle with that. I struggle with that. So normally at home, if I haven't eaten by nine, I just don't eat.

• 40:57Fearne Cotton?

  Oh God, same. I hate eating late.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  I'm really happy not to eat.

• 41:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Uh, and then, so I have, that's where I have to get a grip, not get too grumpy.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  And just sort of be a big boy and cope with it. And then it's, and actually what I find is if I can get, and I've found this all my life. If I can get to about 11 or 12, I get a second wind.

• 41:21Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, nice.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  And I'm good till about one ish.

• 41:23Fearne Cotton?

  I do not, I do not get a second wind. I like, if I could choose to pick a time for dinner, if I'm having a little meal with a friend in London, it would be granny o'clock, 6.30.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:35Fearne Cotton?

  Dreamy.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Sarah's the same.

• 41:36Fearne Cotton?

  Absolutely dreamy. The other day, my friend suggested eating at eight, which you know means you're going to eat at half eight, quarter to nine.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  If you go out, definitely.

• 41:44Fearne Cotton?

  Nightmare. I'm not here for that.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  This time of year, we usually at home don't eat till eight or even half past eight because of the, we're outside and gone. And suddenly, you know, I'll say, what are we doing for supper? Have you got any ideas? And of course we live in the, we can't deliveroo. We eat, everything we eat, we cook.

• 42:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I mean, last night we had French beans from the garden, tomatoes from the garden, courgettes from the garden, potato from the garden. We had beetroot from the garden.

• 42:10Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, this is dream.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  But it had to be grown and dug up and cooked and washed.

• 42:15Fearne Cotton?

  But it tastes so much better.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  It tastes much better, but it takes time.

• 42:18Fearne Cotton?

  It does. I just got a bunch of my dad's runner beans from the weekend and they are the best runner beans out there.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have it any different, but, but we tend to eat later. And increasingly this time of year, I eat, tidy up, potter a little bit and go to bed.

• 42:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  You know, that's my nightlife.

• 42:33Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven. That sounds like the absolute dream. Um, well, look, Monty, it's been just wonderful talking to you today. Thank you so much for being on Happy Place. And have a lovely holiday.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

• 42:46Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Monty. Honestly, I've been wanting Monty on the podcast for so long. Having really looked to how he's talked about his own mental health, as one of, as we said, one of the first people in the public eye to do so. Very courageously. And I just think he's a brilliant person. And let me tell you, when we turned the mics off, we carried on chatting for some time. He is just the most wonderful person. I think we've got to get him back on. I feel like we could chat to Monty about all manner of things. He's worldly wise and also incredibly honest. And as he pointed out, lots of men out there still feel unable to talk about their mental health.

• 43:24Fearne Cotton?

  And he's definitely doing brilliant things to help move things in the right direction. Thank you, Monty, so much for your time. And I do hope that you manage to get away and do a bit of gardening in Greece. Let's hope so. Now, if you want to help taking your holidays more seriously, then you know where to go. British Airways Holidays allows you to book with a low deposit and pay off your holiday in flexible instalments. They offer a 24 hour holiday helpline and all holidays include a generous baggage allowance per person. What's more, all British Airways holidays are at all protected, so they've got you well and truly covered. Huge thanks again to Monty, to British Airways Holidays and to you, you brilliant lot.

• 44:30Fearne Cotton?

  Happy Place is researched by me, Fern Cotton. The producer is Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios with studio engineering by Basil Oxtaby.