OCD, perimenopause, and hitting rock bottom: This year on Happy Place

Which episodes of Happy Place have stayed with you this year? Reflecting on some of the chats she’s had this year, Fearne explores her own OCD diagnosis, how she copes when she’s gripped by shame, and why her attitude towards periods has shifted. She also talks about just how powerful her friendship with Davina McCall is, and why her recent episode with Malala has prompted conversations about women’s rights with her own kids. Listen to the full episodes here: Afua Hirsch https://pod.fo/e/2b12ae Will Poulter https://pod.fo/e/2bd0dd Charlie Mackesy https://pod.fo/e/33c0e3 Ashley Walters https://pod.fo/e/2da5a5 Davina McCall https://pod.fo/e/309799 Malala Yousafzai https://pod.fo/e/34f7d3 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place. I'm Fern Cotton and today it's our last episode of 2025, so I thought I would pause and reflect on some of the moments that have really stayed with me this year.

• 0:44Speaker 02

  There was two types of shame, and one is the toxic shame which remains in you for no apparent reason.

• 0:49Speaker 03

  And it's taken me till this big age to realise, actually, what I was doing was learning to ignore my body.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  And I've heard from a lot of men who have realised that it is a courageous thing to dare to show your weakness.

• 1:00Speaker 04

  So coming out of prison, I became a recluse to other people, but to me, I was like reevaluating what I wanted to do.

• 1:07Speaker 05

  I was so scared.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  And I slowly but surely just distanced myself from the world that I knew.

• 1:13Speaker 05

  That's, I think, the scariest thing about any mental health issues. You can never underestimate how alone someone can feel.

• 1:21Speaker 06

  It's okay to make mistakes, to be confused, to be adventurous. I'm not afraid of dying anymore, and it was the biggest journey of my life. The most important thing is that I stay true to myself and that I ask for help when I need it.

• 1:35Speaker 07

  After I got better and I came up to London and I started taking the tube again, and I remember sitting on the tube and looking at everybody, and I nearly turned into the weirdo that goes around down the tube going, "Smile, honestly, this is great!"

• 1:49Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my God, there have been so many topics over the last year that I want to get my teeth even deeper into today. We're going to go all over the place, from health scares and prison, changing people's mindsets, OCD and shame, and the power of menstrual blood. First, though, which conversation? Have really got you going. At stammer Sarah on Instagram, loved Mel Robbins because her theories are so helpful for people who suffer with anxiety. Oh my God, a hundred percent. I, I love Mel so much. Hanging out with her, I was sort of lulled into perhaps a false sense that we're now

• 2:30Fearne Cotton?

  best mates, but I just, I love her company and she has such a brilliant authoritative voice. Whatever she says, I'm like, I'm in, I believe you. At Barb's Kelly's favorite episode was Lulu because of her honesty. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, she really opened up about some really difficult stuff during that chat that she hadn't really talked about before. I was so, so grateful. And at official pally yoga said Malala's chat was inspirational, funny, lighthearted, and just awesome. Well, I'm so glad that you love that one. Keep listening because we've got a bit of that Malala episode for you in a moment, as well as loads of others that I really want to tell you more about.

• 3:14Speaker 08

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 3:44Speaker 09

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.

• 4:17Speaker 10

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 4:50Fearne Cotton?

  All right, let's do it. Here's the show.

• 5:13Fearne Cotton?

  Now, when storyteller and former barrister Afua Hirsch came on the show earlier this year, I had just read her book Decolonising My Body. This book? Oh my god. And there was so much I wanted to explore with her about the history and politicisation of body hair and female sexuality and tattoos. And one of the things I particularly loved hearing Afua's take on was the menstrual cycle. Let's chat about periods, right? Because why are we still so weird about them? What is going on? Even at my age, I'm still weird about periods. There are loads of reasons we're in this bizarre situation where we feel the need

• 5:53Fearne Cotton?

  to shove tampons up our sleeves and sheepishly shuffle to the toilet. And a big one is lost wisdom and rituals, coupled with the barrage of advertising that we see of women ice skating and smiling in the office when they're on their period. It's not real! That is basically teaching us that we've just got to ignore periods and crack on with it, which is often not the case.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  That was the marketing, I mean, the week we're up with, it was like, on your period, don't worry, put this up.

• 6:25Fearne Cotton?

  Crack on, exactly.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  That was, that was presented as a massive success. If you can hide it.

• 6:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Mark it, nobody knows it's happening. It's like all discretion, discreet this, discreet that. It's all coloured pink and told, telling you that you can be a boss, you can be in the C suite as long as you wear like an ultra tampon.

• 6:43Fearne Cotton?

  No, you can't.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  And, and, and take some, some, some specially pink packaged period painkillers.

• 6:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  And actually, when you are in pain, your body is telling you something. When you have no energy, your body is telling you to rest. And I was the worst. I was that person who was actually proud of the fact that I cracked on.

• 7:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Never took a day off, never slept late in bed, no matter how bad my period was, I'll be in the gym and I'll be at work. And I thought that was some kind of achievement. And it's taken me till this big age to realise, actually, what I was doing was learning to ignore my body. And that doesn't just apply to your period, you know, that might be how it starts. But in general, it's, it's cutting yourself off from a source of intelligence that's uniquely designed for you about what is happening to your own body. And it's understandable because we live in a society that doesn't give you menstrual leave. So what choice do you have? If you have a job and you have to be there, you have to put in a tampon, take a painkiller and keep it moving. And it's, it's just another reminder that none of this has been designed for us.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  None of this has been built around our needs or facilitating our thriving or our genius. It's all built for a model that we've been shoehorned into at whatever cost.

• 7:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, you talk about, um, you know, having friends who, you know, much like myself, have been through the menopause. And, and there's an element of grief, you're losing something, it's the, the acknowledgement of your fertility is over. And you're not having that cycle every month. And actually getting to that point and thinking. I didn't realise that they were a really powerful, important part of who I was as a female, from the age of whatever, you know, for me it was probably 12, 13, to when you finish your periods. How do you suppose we start really honouring them? Rather than, because we've been conditioned, it's not an inherent feeling that periods are awful, we've been conditioned to go, God, they're embarrassing, God, they're awful, they're so inconvenient.

• 8:38Fearne Cotton?

  And, you know, yes, there can be pain and there can be discomfort and they can be inconvenient. But I think a lot of it has been, it's conditional, that we've been told all of these things. Whereas actually, if we can slightly shift and see them as this miraculous, beautiful thing that we get to experience as women, then I think we can change our mindset, how we move through the world, we probably can choose rest at times over just pushing through. But I wonder how we start that shift, how we can start to think of our menstrual cycle as something beautiful and powerful, rather than just like, fuck it, I want to come on my period.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Do you know how it started for me? And it's interesting, isn't it, how life is sometimes like this, when you do something for someone else, it ends up helping you. So when my daughter started her period, I wanted her to have a puberty initiation, because again, this is something that almost all cultures did for young women. And we've lost. I mean, I don't know about you, when I started my period, my mum was like, here's a sanitary towel, kind of keep it moving. And that's what her mother did for her. And at some point, this practice of really initiating girls and teaching them that this is now they're stepping into a new phase of power, and also responsibility, is something that was totally lost. So I wanted to restore that for my daughter. So I worked with some amazing women, who I write about in the book called Laurence.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  She is initiated into the highest order of priestesses in Benin, which is one of the ancient centres of this kind of knowledge. And she did a puberty initiation for my daughter. You know, I'm thinking, this is for the young girls, you know, this is for my daughter and her friends and cousins to really understand this phase they're entering. And, you know, we'll just be there for support. The girls were completely chilled. We were the ones in pieces. It was the women my age who were on the floor because the initiation ceremony is telling these girls, you are entering a phase of incredible power and here's how to hold it. Here's how to use it. Here's how to harness it.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  And we're at the other end, you know, coming towards menopause, realising that after basically a lifetime of having that power, we didn't use it.

• 10:43Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  We didn't know we had it. We didn't appreciate it. We didn't use it. We just saw it as like a mess that needed to be cleaned up discreetly. And it's never too late. It's honestly never too late. And you know, entering menopause is not a loss. It's also a rebirth into a new phase where you have new powers.

• 10:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Do you know what? After having that game changing chat with Afua, who, as you just heard, is so clever, sort of so overwhelmingly clever that I wanted to just not speak. I'm just so in awe of her and so massively articulate. But what really made me stop and think was how we, I mean, it's not even like we've been conditioned to think of periods as this like terrible thing or thing we should ignore. We just don't talk about any of it. It's just sort of a given that it stays in the shadows. And I've become much more vocal, even in my friendship groups, talking about whether I'm on my period, it's just ended, I'm about to come on my period

• 11:39Fearne Cotton?

  and all the feelings that come with that and not to feel like it has to be this weird secret. Also, because I am perimenopausal, I am now thinking about the end of my periods in a completely different way. And rather than like, sometimes I think, oh God, can menopause just hurry up? I'm over it. Other days I think, oh God, I'm terrified of menopause and all that it brings. But actually, I'm seeing it as this kind of amazing closure to this beautiful experience that I've had, that yes, brings pain and discomfort and irritation and sometimes just wanting to stay in bed, quite frankly. But it's also given me my babies and has been this cycle that I followed on repeat since I was 13 years old.

• 12:24Fearne Cotton?

  And I have to honour the closure of that somehow. And I'm still wondering how I might, but I think, having learned so much from Afua. Ritual has to be part of that without a doubt. And also, I think just the general feeling that we all need to listen to our bodies a lot more, whether that's due to our menstrual cycle, our energy levels, how we're pushing them in exercise. That has been a big, big one for me, I'd say, in the last five years. Whereas I used to really love running and pushing myself, my knees are currently saying, no, no more running, not allowed. And my body just feels better when I do exercise that is actually gentler and softer and much more intuitive.

• 13:07Fearne Cotton?

  And I think everything that Afua said has made me take that seriously rather than think, no, no, look at these people on Instagram doing HIIT workouts and they're dripping with sweat. Actually, my body is telling me at this point in my life, it doesn't want that. And I'd be ridiculously stupid to not listen to it. Afua, we bloody love you. And if you're listening to this, Afua, I mean, just probably not, but please can you come back on? Because I feel like we could have talked for days, days actually. So we need a part two, a part three and a part four. That's to come down the line, hopefully. Oh, shall we talk about Will Poulter? The entire Happy Place team fell in love with him when he came in for a chat. What a thoughtful, kind-hearted and just regular guy.

• 13:51Fearne Cotton?

  He didn't turn up with some big Hollywood entourage, makeup artist and PR people. He just got on the tube and came to the studio on his own and we love him for that. Now, I was only diagnosed with OCD a few years ago and I'll tell you a bit more about that in a moment. So it was really nice to hear about Will's experience of being diagnosed as a kid.

• 14:12Speaker 05

  OCD is something I was diagnosed with in my early teens. And when I reflect on it, I think I had, you know, intrusive thoughts, which is sort of one of the kind of subsets of OCD, if you like.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  And I think I had intrusive thoughts, undiagnosed OCD, when I was aware of my imaginary best friend, for example, you know, it it just it just had a different and, you know, typically imaginative spin on it for a child. Like, I can remember having this kind of voice in my head that told me, you know, if I didn't, you know, walk on certain paving stones on the way up to my, like, mum and dad's house, that, like, something terrible was gonna happen to them.

• 14:56Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, I still have that.

• 14:57Speaker 05

  Right, exactly.

• 14:58Fearne Cotton?

  I I did that on the, probably on the way in.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  Right.

• 15:00Fearne Cotton?

  That's one I can't let go of. It won't, it won't fucking go. I can't do three drains.

• 15:05Speaker 05

  It's wild. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's.

• 15:07Fearne Cotton?

  Two drains, got to say something really positive about someone. Three drains, I will walk, I will make a scene to get around it. I can't get over that one.

• 15:15Speaker 05

  Across the street.

• 15:15Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I can't get over it. It's ridiculous. I mean, I can get over it, because I'll walk around it, but mentally, can't get over it.

• 15:20Speaker 05

  Mentally can't get over it. Yeah, it was so interesting. When I was younger, that was just.

• 15:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  That was just this, um, this voice in my head, this, like, figure that, you know, I I I labelled as this kind of like negative character in my life and only post my diagnosis and actually, like, well after, you know, knowing that I had OCD, did I look back on that and go, oh, that's what that was, you know?

• 15:43Fearne Cotton?

  So what what at what point did you think, oh, this isn't, because when you're a kid, whatever you're thinking is just your normal. So you assume maybe everyone thinks like this, or you don't even, you don't have the awareness or the detachment to think this is a thought, it's just you walking around. So at what point did you assume this is a problem, actually? This is causing me stress in my life now?

• 16:04Speaker 05

  Well, I was really lucky. I I got access to therapy in my early teens. I was probably, I was probably fourteen when I first started experiencing kind of obsessive compulsive thoughts and and the ruminations and intrusive thoughts. And, you know, until it was diagnosed and until I received that therapy, I just thought I was totally alone with this condition or or not even condition at that time, with this way of thinking, with this sort of defunct brain. I was so scared. And that that's the, that's, I think, the scariest thing about, you know, any mental health issues. And you can never underestimate how alone someone can feel in their state, you know, even when you're telling someone, you know, oh, I have

• 16:47Speaker 05

  anxiety too, or oh, I deal with intrusive thoughts, or I have OCD. I know, because I've been there myself, ninety percent of the time, the other person's looking at you going, yeah, but you do, but not like me though.

• 16:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 05

  And it may be that you are within five metres of someone at any given point who is experiencing the same thing, or a version of that thing, or, you know, it's really a quite a sad and potentially quite British expression, but it is also quite true that misery loves company.

• 17:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 05

  And one of the cruelest things about OCD is that often those intrusive thoughts, and the worst thing you can imagine, is the worst thing you can imagine, and is something that your OCD has created precisely because it's the antithesis of how you actually feel.

• 17:33Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 17:33Speaker 05

  And it actually takes what you value most, or the version of yourself that you most want to be, your idealistic self, the way that you wanna conduct yourself, your sort of idealistic behaviour, and it creates a kind of subverted version of that, whereby it convinces you that the opposite is going to happen, or you are gonna become the opposite of who you want to be, or you are going to behave in a way that is the most abhorrent way you could possibly imagine behaving, or the most terrible thing, you know, you could think of happening is gonna happen. OCD is so cruel that it'll, it'll do that.

• 18:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, we'll jump on that. I greatly appreciate Will talking about his experience of OCD. Mine fluctuates. I know some people have got it intensely and it lasts for years, it can be decades. It can be a lifetime. Mine sort of fluctuates, and at its worst, I would say in my early thirties, when I didn't recognise it as OCD, I had horrendous intrusive thoughts, ones that I'm not comfortable talking about at all. And I thought I was going mad, and I also thought that I was just an awful person. So that's why I think having a diagnosis is really important, because it, it sort of separates you from that experience. You aren't the intrusive thoughts, you're not actually even responsible for them.

• 18:53Fearne Cotton?

  It, it feels wildly out of control. So that was at its absolute worst, and then. Down the line, I'd say the fluctuation can be anything from sometimes intrusive thoughts still, but not as severely or regularly as I had them in my early 30s. And a lot of it revolves around safety checking. So it's constantly looking for danger and a lot of the time that's in my own home. So making sure that windows are shut, that alarms are on, that hobs are off, that candles are blown out. But the OCD bit forces me to do that countless times, depending on how anxious I am at the time, how stressed out I am. When I'm peak stressed, I mean, I have to check the hobs three, four times before I

• 19:38Fearne Cotton?

  can go to bed. And also, there's this other part of it, and I didn't realise that this was an OCD thing until quite recently, but if I'm particularly anxious or stressed, I have to go to the loo, like for a wee, it could be 10 times before I actually fall asleep. So I'll go for a wee, get in bed, can't fall asleep, go for another wee, get in bed. I mean, at its worst, I did that all night once. It was grim and I didn't get any sleep at all. That only happened once, but it was horrendous. So as you can hear, if it depends on how much you have experienced OCD or know about it, it can show up in so many different flavours and levels of severity and can fluctuate like mine does.

• 20:20Fearne Cotton?

  I actually didn't go looking for an OCD diagnosis because I didn't know I had it. I went to see a therapist because I assumed that I had anxiety disorder because my anxiety was particularly bad at the time, which was therefore a trigger for me doing all of these things that I have to do. And he very quickly said, look, this is not what you're expecting. You haven't got anxiety disorder, you've got OCD. And I was like, what? I don't think so. Because I think when you see OCD depicted on TV or in films, it's a very specific thing. It's like turning light switches on and off and it can be that. Or, you know, stepping on certain bits of the pavement. Again, it can be all of these things and mine wasn't that. And that's why I was like, what? OCD?

• 21:04Fearne Cotton?

  But like I said earlier, having that diagnosis has allowed me a little bit of room between me and these things that I sometimes need to do. I think I'm still looking at coping mechanisms. One of them for me has been if I look at, if I take my anger seriously, this seems sort of unrelated weirdly, but if I take my anger seriously and I look at it rather than ignore it. That seems to lessen my levels of anxiety, which therefore lessen the OCD triggers. And that's something that a therapist has helped me with massively. And it doesn't mean that I have to go like shouting off to people and going, I hate you, blah, blah, blah. It just means I can healthily look to exorcise that anger, get it out of my physical body. And that seems to lessen the anxiety greatly. And the less anxious and stressed I am,

• 21:49Fearne Cotton?

  the less these OCD rituals come into play. You know, as I said, it fluctuates. So sometimes it's particularly bad, other times not so much. But what I do love doing is having chats like that one with Will, to look at all the variations so that if you're listening to this now, you might go, well, maybe I need to seek a diagnosis. Or if you already have one, like, oh, thank God, it's not just me that is, is dealing with this. So thank you, Will. You are a total legend.

• 22:20Speaker 11

  Because you didn't just say, how can I provide these investments? You'd be, how do I holistically provide everything? How do I bring in the legal, the accounting, all this? And do it at a price point no one else is doing it.

• 22:29Speaker 12

  Learn more about how we approach wealth management at creativeplanning.com/integrated.

• 22:34Speaker 09

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.

• 23:07Speaker 10

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 23:37Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel.

• 23:38Speaker 13

  And Maisie Adam.

• 23:39Fearne Cotton?

  And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it?

• 23:42Speaker 13

  Only the best podcast ever.

• 23:43Fearne Cotton?

  Yes!

• 23:44Speaker 13

  A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel.

• 23:54Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too.

• 23:56Speaker 13

  Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip.

• 23:58Fearne Cotton?

  Num, num, num, num, num. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, you just need to search Big Kick Energy.

• 24:04Speaker 13

  Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 24:10Fearne Cotton?

  Now, I'm writing a book at the moment, and one of the topics that keeps coming up for me is actually a whole chapter on this subject, is shame. And since I've been bringing it up here on the show, it seems that pretty much everyone I've spoken to recently has their own stories of feeling very visceral shame. The incredible artist Charlie Macacy, he's the artist and brilliant author of The Boy, The Mole, The Fox and The Horse books. He has had some particularly gorgeous thoughts around shame. Have a listen.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  I remember reading somewhere, well, someone said it, I can't remember where, where there was two types of shame. And one is the toxic shame which remains in you for no apparent reason, just the fact that you have it and it sits there. And the other one is you feel ashamed of something you've done. And the second one is easier to deal with.

• 24:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Because you go, that was stupid, say sorry. And this is other weird shame that hangs in you.

• 25:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Just because you exist.

• 25:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  What?

• 25:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's mad.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And more of us feel like that than I think we care to believe, which is helpful because shame doesn't want us to know that other people feel like that.

• 25:18Speaker 02

  No, no, no, it's just you.

• 25:20Fearne Cotton?

  Just you.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  It was at my fault.

• 25:21Fearne Cotton?

  You're the problem. Yeah, was it my fault? Yeah, I know, it's mind blowing.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the moment you start talking, I did a drawing years ago, I think, and it was in a police cell somewhere, and I took that one down because I think it was worded right, but I said something like, shame keeps you silent, but there's no shame in talking or asking for help. It was something like that. And the words hadn't, but you know, I remember someone saying, oh, you know, shame has its uses. And I took it, took it down. But I think the moment you start talking about it is the moment people engage with it. And oh, I'm not alone then.

• 25:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  And I think it's, it's the feeling of it's just you. There's a deeply lonely feeling that, that at the moment we go, oh, you do that as well? You feel that? Oh, my God, me too. Okay. So, so there's hope then, because actually this is, this is a universal issue.

• 26:10Fearne Cotton?

  It's a human condition.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  It's a human condition.

• 26:12Fearne Cotton?

  Exactly.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  And how do we get free from this?

• 26:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  How do we walk freely? And I think it's conversation, connection, vulnerability, telling the truth. You do it in the right place, but daring to believe you'll be loved more for it.

• 26:28Fearne Cotton?

  I think there's something extra special about you being a man doing this, because we still know that there is a huge mental health crisis for men.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Men, yeah, yeah.

• 26:37Fearne Cotton?

  And, and the outcome is disproportionately awful compared to women.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  It kills more men than anything else.

• 26:42Fearne Cotton?

  It's just, it's horrendous. And, and I think for men to see, for other men to see you being vulnerable and writing about feelings is, is powerful.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a lovely thing to say. I mean, essentially the four characters are part of me. And I remember engaging with these different sides of me and then putting them into the world, not really fully realising at the time. You know, and I started to address things. And I remember, I remember years ago, doing this, I thought I'd do a show of drawings in some gallery, right? So I hired this space and thought maybe my mum would come, my sister and my friend. And like 10,000 people came in five days.

• 27:20Fearne Cotton?

  Holy shit.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was completely, it was nuts. It was insane, right? And so I was, I was leaning against the wall and going, hi, and nice to see you.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  And you, but I remember, I, I remember some of the people who were there, and particularly the man. And I remember one girl bringing, sort of pulling her enormous looking boyfriend in to meet me. And he just was standing, looking at me. And she said, go on, say something. To to her boyfriend, to me, and I I I said, he doesn't need to say anything, you know, he was just, and he was kind of tongue tied. And then his eyes welled up. And we just looked at each other. And and she was looking at him. And then I I just thought, right, I'm just gonna ask. So we just had a hug and he was, we had this long hug and he started sobbing. And and then he just, he just pulled himself together and turned around and walked out.

• 28:17Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And I I never knew what his story was. And I've heard from a lot of men since who have been on the edge of things.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Who have realised that it is a courageous thing to dare to show your weakness, to say help to. These things are not failings. They're they're courageous things because because it's choosing life, it's choosing you over over not of being here as well as not being here.

• 28:47Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Charlie, what a beautiful chat that was. That was one of those conversations that I felt happily lost in. I almost forgot that I was doing the podcast. I could have just sat there chatting and going off on different tangents with Charlie and his amazing mind for for hours and hours. And I think it's really helped me recently because, you know, although I'm writing about shame, I like talking about it. It doesn't mean I'm immune to it. My God, if anything, it's the opposite. I think maybe the more I talk about it, the more aware I am of when I'm in it. And that always needs addressing because none of us should be living in shame. It's the worst feeling. You drown in it. It keeps you quiet. It keeps you in the shadows. It's just horrible.

• 29:30Fearne Cotton?

  And it's an important one to talk about because it likes to breed in secrecy and in the shadows. So if you're not talking about it, it seems to get bigger and more potent. So if you're in shame currently, or you've experienced parts of your life feeling like you're so ashamed and just living in that that sort of heaviness, then I'm hoping that that chat with Charlie has been alleviating somehow. I had a big period of feeling a lot of shame in my early twenties. It was sort of teamed with a depressive episode. But even more recently, I've had big, big bouts of it. And the one thing I've learned about shame is that talking about it dissipates it every time, even if there's like one specific incident. I remember doing this

• 30:12Fearne Cotton?

  exercise with a therapist where there was one tiny thing that I had done, and it's not a bad thing. It's not like, it's not like a criminal activity, but it's something I sort of clumsily said once, and I was so mortified and ashamed about it. And my therapist said, well, tell me what it was. And I was cringing and I was stuttering saying this thing. And then she said, right, I'll tell you my version of that story from my life. And she told me something she was so ashamed about. And I was like, that's not a big deal. Why do you feel ashamed about that? And often, when you tell someone that thing you're ashamed about, the other person, the beneficiary of that story is like, you don't need to feel shame about that. Like, that's normal. That's fine. So, once you say it out loud,

• 30:53Fearne Cotton?

  it just dilutes it. Charlie also talks this clip about men in particular finding solace in his words and art, but still feeling shame about being vulnerable themselves, which I found fascinating. And I think, you know, as we know from, well, certainly me doing this podcast, but we all know from the stats and figures we see, men allowing themselves to feel vulnerable and open up and talk or cry, which Charlie is very willing to do, thank goodness. It is still a massive issue and correlates to the mental health epidemic that we see. And if we're to be really extreme, the suicide rates that we see with men. So I think the work that Charlie is doing is incredibly important in giving men the space

• 31:35Fearne Cotton?

  to, to read his words, to see his pictures, and to feel the feelings and to know that it's okay to feel down or to cry. I think the work that he's doing in that area is exceptional. Thank you, Charlie. We love you. Oh, let's talk about Ashley Waters. Ashley Waters came on the show around the release of Adolescence on Netflix, which obviously gave us some really meaty topics to get into around masculinity and internet algorithms. Now, he's learned some huge life lessons himself, which he's very generous in storytelling around, particularly from his time in prison. It's something that could have defined his life very negatively if he'd let it, but he managed to switch his mindset and gain a lot from that period.

• 32:21Speaker 04

  That was a higher power moment for me. Now, now I look back on it. I don't think I understood that at the time, but. There's been several moments throughout my career where my higher power has done for me what I wasn't willing to do for myself. And at the time, at the, when that's happening,

• 32:43Speaker 04

  I get very disturbed by like what's going on around me like when I, when I ended up, when they shut that prison door on me. I was like, wow. Like, how did I end up here? You know, in your mind, you're like, I didn't see this for myself, or maybe I did. But like, I'm a, I'm a good person. Like, I, I, I'm not meant to be in this situation, but actually, where I was outside of prison, I wasn't meant to be. And I wasn't willing to step away from loyalty, from friends, from brotherhood, from some toxic sort of masculinity that was going on. Like, I wasn't willing to step away from it because I wasn't strong enough.

• 33:28Speaker 04

  And I was fearful of what the other side would be like or whatever. So my high power took it away from me. You know, he said, all right, you're, you're not gonna do what you, you need to do for yourself. There you go. And let me sit down by myself. And it was only in that moment, I was like, wow. You know, there's a lot of like, my gran, my gran's a very spiritual person, very, very religious. And she would never send me any letters talking about how are you or whatever. She'd just send me passages from the Bible. Just different passages to the point that eventually I started to, because in the beginning I was like, I'm not reading that. I'm not reading this. It's ridiculous.

• 34:10Speaker 04

  Um, but eventually, like, you, you know, you got time on your hands. Yeah. I started reading and just started understanding kind of this was meant to happen to me. And I think at that point, I started to take advantage of the position I was in, you know what I mean? I was like, I stopped feeling sorry for myself. Stopped kind of wondering why I was there or whatever and said, okay, well, what am I gonna do while I'm here? How do I get positivity out of this? You know, I hadn't, I hadn't passed my GCSEs in school. I did pretty well, but I didn't do as good as I wanted to in my English and Maths. They were offering GCSEs in there. I took that. I started working in the kitchen. I did a food hygiene course. Do you know what I mean?

• 34:53Speaker 04

  I was like, let me try and better myself whilst I'm in this environment. And let me sit down and analyze where it went wrong. You know, and I quickly realized like a big part of why I was there was because of the company that I was keeping. Um, and no one in my circle, I looked around me and no one in my circle, I actually wanted to be like. I, I didn't wanna be like any of these people, like, I was more scared of them than anything else, do you know what I mean? It was like, and I realized that I had to like, I, if I put my, I needed to put myself in a situation where I'm the dumbest sort of person in the room, right?

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Like where I, like, all the people around me, I'm aspiring to, do you know what I mean? Like, I, I wanna copy what they've done. I wanna be like them. I wanna get to where they are. And that changed my whole mindset. That was like a big thing for me. And that came through books. That came through reading like The Long Walk to Freedom, Nelson Mandela. Um, I read, um, The Scholar by, uh, Courtney Nuland. There was little gems in those, in those books and my granny's letters. That really made me understand about that kind of, like, how I could change things for me im- immediately. Hmm. Um, so coming out of prison, that was the first thing I did.

• 36:15Speaker 04

  I became a recluse to other people, but to me, I was like reevaluating what I wanted to do. And I slowly but surely just distanced myself from the world that I knew.

• 36:27Fearne Cotton?

  God, do you know what? I'm so grateful to Ashley in, I mean, it's not like he's just done this on Happy Place. He's talked openly about his life experiences in a book form and also when he does talks. And he is so willing to go there and talk about those rock bottom moments, which, you know, many of you listening may have had. I've certainly had myself. And I think it's probably only with time and distance that you can look back and recognise it as a rock bottom, but also see the gifts that it gives you. And that might sound like reductive or like a bit wishy washy, like, oh, yeah, you know, this terrible time, but look at the silver linings. But I honestly think if you, if you have enough space between

• 37:11Fearne Cotton?

  the rock bottom and where you are today, you can see them. I couldn't for years. I was just angry and resentful that I had to go through certain things. But now I'm further down the line, I can see. I mean, for one, I'm doing this podcast. If I hadn't felt so absolutely ghastly, I would have just carried on presenting TV shows and doing radio shows, probably quite happily, actually. But I'm so glad that I've gone off on this totally different tangent because I'm, I'm learning, I'm learning constantly. And it's just forever interesting and I feel massively motivated. So that is certainly one gift right there. I also think what Ashley was saying around sort of like victim mentality

• 37:51Fearne Cotton?

  is huge because yes, we need to feel our feelings and sometimes that might mean there's a sense of injustice there or that there's wrongdoing from another person. But that period has to end at some point. You can't live in that forever, as tempting as it is. And I definitely lived in a victim state for too long. Like I reached an expiration date and I didn't get the hint. And I think now I look back, I'm like, oh, I wish I'd recognised that in myself earlier. Because it doesn't, doesn't help you, it doesn't benefit you in any way. You just sort of stay trapped in it. And I love that Ashley tackled that one head on and saw that there was the opportunity for change and has massively changed the whole landscape of his life and how he sees

• 38:36Fearne Cotton?

  life and, and what he's able to achieve. It's, it's incredible. Also how surrounding yourself with the right people is massively important and it doesn't have to be an almighty posse of humans. It can be a handful, two, three, four people that are the right people. People that lift you up, that boost you, that inspire you, that motivate you. Oh my God, there is nothing better. And Ashley again is absolute hard proof of that. Ashley Waters, you are incredible.

• 39:11Speaker 09

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of the best one yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 39:46Speaker 14

  It's time. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween.

• 39:54Speaker 14

  And you guys know we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches. We've got a spooky hotline caller. An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert. And your tarot card dilemmas. Listen to our Halloween specials, search for The Girl's Bathroom.

• 40:23Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god, can we talk about Davina McCall? I could do a whole hour podcast on Davina because I love the bones of her. She has had a huge mindset shift as a result of a very scary moment in life and she's one of my greatest friends. We had this chat about her attitude towards her recent brain tumour surgery with all of you lot live at this summer's Happy Place Festival.

• 40:52Speaker 07

  I was gifted things along the way and I thought I need to get my body, so I exercised a lot before the operation. I mean, I exercised, you know me.

• 41:02Fearne Cotton?

  Always in a legging.

• 41:03Speaker 07

  I exercised a lot, all the time.

• 41:06Fearne Cotton?

  Always got a dumbbell on the go.

• 41:08Speaker 07

  And then I thought I need to get my brain in the right place and that was to a place where I could be calm.

• 41:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 07

  And what did I need to do to do that? Were my kids gonna, sorry.

• 41:23Speaker 07

  Were my kids gonna be okay?

• 41:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 07

  If I didn't make it, like that's all I really cared about. I knew Michael, Michael's like a whole person, Michael's Michael. But I was really worried about my kids, so I went forensic on thinking about my children and where they were at in their life, what stage they were at. You know, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child, right? And I came to a realisation after about six months of like cross-examining them about their life and telling them the whole time how much I've loved my life. My eldest daughter kept caught on, she was like, you are not dying.

• 42:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 07

  I was like, no, no, no. And I realised that they would be great. They'd miss me, you know, and I want to be with them, but they would be okay. And I felt like I could go to sleep on the operating table and know that they were all here to help me, but I can let go of the outcome. And it was the best gift. I am not afraid of dying.

• 42:27Fearne Cotton?

  You still feel that way?

• 42:28Speaker 07

  I am not afraid of dying anymore and it was the biggest journey of my life. From August 23 to November 24 was an amazing time where something changed and Begin Again, the podcast, I started.

• 42:45Speaker 07

  To help other people on their journey of living a life that they love enough to feel on their deathbed, whenever that may be, that I have no regrets.

• 43:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 07

  I have lived the life I wanted and I don't, I'm not lying there going, I wish I'd done that thing.

• 43:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 07

  I wish I'd done that job.

• 43:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 07

  I wish I'd not stayed in this relationship. I wish I'd, you know, all of those, I haven't lived the life I want and begin again is about just begin again.

• 43:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Speaker 07

  And live the life you want, you know.

• 43:20Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it's a, it's a really amazing place to get to.

• 43:23Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 43:23Fearne Cotton?

  A, not being scared of dying, but I think having no regrets and feeling like you are living fully in the life you want to be in. And I think it's quite rare and I think with a health scare, there'll be plenty of people here, I've spoke to many of you this weekend who have been in that position, they've had a big health scare and it does wake you up to that, that we've not got all the time in the world, that we haven't got time to waste.

• 43:46Speaker 07

  I, um, I took the, after I got better and I came up to London and I started taking the tube again and I remember sitting on the tube and looking at everybody and I nearly turned into the weirdo that goes around the, down the tube going, smile, honestly, this is life, you're alive. This is amazing, we're on a tube and it gets us through London much quicker than a car. This is great, you're alive, this is gonna be amazing, do something brilliant today, you're gonna see a friend, you're seeing a friend, yes. Like, I, I, I literally wanted to do that, I thought, no, don't do that.

• 44:20Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I wish you had.

• 44:21Speaker 07

  You will scare people.

• 44:23Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, but it would have gone viral on Instagram and it would have been so cool. I love that, but I get it, I get it.

• 44:31Speaker 07

  Well, you were, you know, you had a scare and it's like, it's a wake up call.

• 44:35Fearne Cotton?

  It's a massive wake up call. We're so lucky.

• 44:38Speaker 07

  You know, we had a wake up call and we're here.

• 44:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 44:42Speaker 07

  It's a gift.

• 44:43Fearne Cotton?

  So me and Davina have been friends for years and years. I've known her for a long time, but we kind of really solidified that friendship when we did this horrendous sport relief cycle. I hated it, I hated every minute. The only redeeming factor as well, we raised lots of money, but also us with Davina on a tour bus and on the back of a bike quite often. But we really became close then and have been ever since. And weirdly, we went through this strange period at a similar time where I was having a tumour removed from my parotid gland, which is your saliva gland, and Davina was having her tumour removed from her brain. Her operation was a few weeks before mine and I found so much comfort in the advice

• 45:27Fearne Cotton?

  that she had for me after we spoke every day whilst I was in hospital. I was checking in on her recovery, she was checking in on me. And we both get quite emotional whenever we sort of talk about it, that we both went through that experience together. And she, I mean, I owe her big time. I'm so grateful to Davina for life, for how amazing she was and supportive she was during that time, considering she was going through it as well. And I think both of us have landed on the fact that we need to slow down in life, like rush around less. I certainly, I can't speak for Davina, but I certainly need to manage my stress levels better, because we all know that stress manifests in various ways in the body and creates inflammation, etc.

• 46:12Fearne Cotton?

  And we never know where that's going to lead to. So it's definitely been a big one for me in terms of that. Davina also talked about being on your deathbed, knowing that you've squeezed everything out of life and knowing that it's never too late to start again, which I think is hugely important, especially for women, women in midlife, where we're sort of, I don't know, supposedly meant to just disappear. I think you can just do whatever, you can start again in terms of whatever you want to do and your mindset, your hobbies, your friendship groups, whatever it is. And Davina will always for me be that person that I look to, who is that little bit older, that is living life on her terms, wearing these like incredible little hot pants with

• 46:53Fearne Cotton?

  little white socks and heeled loafers, looking fit as can be, and just living life how she wants to. She'll inspire me forever. Davina McCall, I love you for life. All right, let's end on this absolute gem from last month. Getting to chat with Malala was one of the highlights, not only of the year but of my life, and I'm not exaggerating saying that. I mean, what an opportunity. I felt so privileged that I got to experience her unbelievable passion for the rights of women and girls all over the world, as well as getting to know the real her, like just the real young woman Malala, beneath all the impressive accolades and titles and things that she's received.

• 47:37Fearne Cotton?

  She brilliantly summed up the insane standards all women are held to when I asked her about the time the paparazzi took a photo of her wearing jeans at uni.

• 47:46Speaker 06

  I was very careful in the beginning at university because I thought somebody would take a photo, put it out of context and there would be a whole controversy. I was not expecting that it would be my jeans. And somebody took this photo of me, of course without my consent, and that photo went viral. And there was a whole backlash and controversy saying shame on Malala for wearing jeans. And I just could not understand what was happening. Why was I not supposed to wear casual university student-like clothes? Because I wanted to look like every other student. I know when I wear my traditional Pakistani shalvar kameez, I look more like the public figure that I am.

• 48:30Speaker 06

  So in college, I intentionally did not want to wear that. And I am proud of my dress and I love wearing it, even right now I'm wearing it. But at college, I just wanted to have the choice to be able to wear the clothes that I preferred. And I remember getting a call from my parents. They were really upset and I told my parents that I am not going to defend myself on this and people will always have something to say. I'm not here for some pilgrimage, I'm here to be a student.

• 48:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 06

  And I reminded my dad that when my brothers moved to this country, they immediately switched to jeans and tops. Nobody criticised them, there was no controversy, but I decide to wear jeans right now and it's a problem. So it's women and girls who have to take the burden, who have to cope with the trolling and the abuse. And we cannot allow that. So I I I never defend myself. People always have something to say that is very, very crazy. If it's a helpful input, I take it. But other than that, I know there there'll always be something.

• 49:34Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean trolling is never helpful input ever. It's just it's just not. And you were called everything from, you know, too casual to a porn star.

• 49:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:43Fearne Cotton?

  Which is wild.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  Yes, and I also saw that there were some people who were criticizing me for wearing a headscarf. Because they thought that I was not liberal enough, or I was not fully free if I was still following my culture and my tradition. And I disagreed with all of those opinions because everybody was trying to control the way I dressed. But, you know, the message that we are promoting, those of us who are talking about women's freedom and liberty, is that women should be able to make these choices for themselves.

• 50:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 50:13Speaker 06

  And freedom and liberation is not following just the Western culture, but like it it can look different in every culture. It's about women and girls having the ability to make choices for themselves.

• 50:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 06

  That's the most important thing.

• 50:26Fearne Cotton?

  Too right. And that's exactly what this whole chapter of your life has been about, is finding out what you want. Not what everybody else is telling you you should be or how you should live. It's it's what you want. And that's never an easy path.

• 50:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:40Fearne Cotton?

  For the majority of us, if we stay in line, if we fit in with what pleases other people, life is seemingly easier, although it's not, because you're constantly not showing up authentically and not working out who you are. Do you feel at this point in your life now, with everything you've been through, and having that as normal as it can be experience of going to university, that you're any closer to knowing who you are?

• 51:03Speaker 06

  Definitely. I am more of myself. I'm at peace with myself.

• 51:09Speaker 06

  I have a lot of friends, I have found love, I know how I want to do my activism. Girls' education is my lifetime mission and I want to see that world where every girl can go to school. But I also have a better understanding that this is a lot more difficult and it's more complex. But I'm determined to ensure that every girl, especially those who are banned in Afghanistan, can go to school. And every child can have a normal, safe life. And I also know that I will not have an answer to every question in my mind. As I explore the coming years, there would be so many things that would be happening for the first time.

• 51:49Speaker 06

  It's okay not to know it all, it's okay to make mistakes, to be confused, to be adventurous. Yeah. But the most important thing is that I stay true to myself and that I ask for help when I need it.

• 52:03Fearne Cotton?

  Do you know what? This is one of those chats that actually continued after the recording and found itself at the dining room table. Me and my kids have talked a hell of a lot about Malala. Some of the time, my kids are massively unfussed about, obviously, anything I do. I'll be like, oh, guys, I interviewed blah, blah today, and they're like, yeah, cool, can I play Playstation? It's literally that. But there was something about me explaining who Malala was and what she's done that captured their imaginations massively. And even this morning on the school run, my daughter again asked me, oh, can you talk about Malala? Because we saw her on newsround in school today, because they watch it at school every lunchtime. And we had this really amazing chat about the suppression of women in parts of the world

• 52:48Fearne Cotton?

  and the girls that Malala is trying to massively help and the rights to education. And my kids, rightly so, couldn't believe their ears hearing about how some young women don't have the rights to do anything. And they were asking me such intriguing questions and that just felt like such an amazing gift that that chat then enabled me to have this amazing conversation with my kids that is, quite frankly, still ongoing. But I think that story in particular about Malala wearing jeans and the absolute outrage is emblematic of everything, well, everything that women are still up against today. Like the basics, the basic, basic rights.

• 53:30Fearne Cotton?

  I think, you know, I obviously live in the Western world where we do have many more rights, but I still think... Weirdly, my position in the public eye means that often, as a woman, I am judged for everything that I do or say, and a lot of the time, you can't win, and you certainly can't please everybody. But you might think you're doing the right thing by saying one thing or doing one thing, but then another group of people are pissed off with you. Certainly around, again, like, women's choices as to how they express themselves with clothing, or body image, and how women have been shamed, you know, even in the 90s, when I was on TV and in magazines around that time, the shaming of women's bodies was just abhorrent, and,

• 54:15Fearne Cotton?

  you know, not much has really changed. I also loved the way that Malala tackled the difficulty she's had with her own mum, and the sort of rules and expectations that her family have put on her. But she's done it all with humour in the book, it's very, very clever. I loved her discussions around that, and how many of us still feel like we're disappointing our parents, or we're sort of waiting for their validation. I found that part of the conversation really, really interesting. And I think it motivates me even more to want to live life on my own terms. And as I reach my mid 40s, I feel deeply passionate about that. And I don't even know what that looks like entirely,

• 54:57Fearne Cotton?

  but I do feel a fire in my belly that I want to really do that. And Malala is someone that we can all look to, to see that we've all got that in us, to be brave and courageous, stand up for what we believe in, and to live life on our terms in 2026, and beyond. Now, do keep an eye out on your podcast feeds, because next year, you're going to be hearing a little bit more of me and my musings, which I hope you're up for. In the meantime, massive thanks again to every single person who shared their story with Happy Place this year. My god, I'm grateful. And that includes you lot, too. I feel like I get to know you better, you lovely listeners, every year online, and at the festival, and other Happy

• 55:42Fearne Cotton?

  Place events. So honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for being here. You are absolutely the bloody best. And thanks to my amazing producer, Anushka Tate, at Happy Place Studios, for another amazing year of the Happy Place podcast, and have a very happy new year. Love ya.

• 56:29Speaker 09

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 57:02Speaker 08

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 57:33Speaker 10

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 58:03Speaker 13

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisie Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yes! A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, you just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.