344. The Ogre of Indiana

On this episode, Payton and Garrett investigate the chilling case of Belle Gunness, a woman whose farmworkers seemed to disappear without a trace. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: AETV.com - https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/belle-gunness-the-early-20th-century-female-serial-killer-you-probably-havent-heard-of America’s Femme Fatale: The Story of Serial Killer Belle Gunness - https://iupress.org/9781684351596/americas-femme-fatale/ Biography.com - https://www.biography.com/crime/belle-gunness Hell’s Princess: The Mystery of Belle Gunness - https://www.mysteriousbookshop.com/products/harold-schechter-hells-princess LegendsOfAmerica.com - https://www.legendsofamerica.com/belle-gunness/ Most Notorious - https://www.mostnotorious.com/2022/12/12/mono-classics-indiana-serial-killer-belle-gunness-w-harold-schechter/ TheDailyBeast.com - https://www.thedailybeast.com/belle-gunness-promised-her-suitors-a-rural-paradise-then-murdered-them/ The Dark Histories Podcast - https://www.darkhistories.com/belle-gunness-lady-bluebeard-the-murder-farm/ The Truth about Belle Gunness - https://mysteriouspress.com/products/true-crime/the-truth-about-belle-gunness-by-lillian-de-la-torre.asp WikiTree - https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Størseth-7 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You know that feeling when too many things fall through the cracks? Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform where people and agents work side by side to deliver more together. Create your first Monday agent today at monday.com.

• 0:16Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 0:23Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 0:24Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:25Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband.

• 0:25Payton Moreland?

  And if you are watching on video, I don't know the last time I showered or anything. I don't know what's going on. I guess you guys are just going through this journey with us.

• 0:38Garrett Moreland?

  If you're watching on Netflix, you see a little human being with me.

• 0:44Garrett Moreland?

  That is our human being that we made. That is our baby.

• 0:48Payton Moreland?

  And a very protective big sister who loves her so very much. Yeah.

• 0:54Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, that's, we just kind of kind of update you what things are going to look like. So we came down to do a little intro real quick.

• 1:04Garrett Moreland?

  It's not going to be us doing a full video, but right after this intro plays, there will be a full video. It's going to be a video that majority of you have never seen before or heard before. For those who have heard it or seen it, it means you're subscribed to our Patreon. And we're going to send a separate message out on extra content we're going to be putting there instead. Just to even everything out. Anyways, that's what we got going. So majority of you have never heard or listened to this episode before. If you're upset that you cannot see our little baby girl, sorry, right now that is on purpose. As we just navigate exactly how we want to

• 1:45Garrett Moreland?

  figure out what we want to do with her social media wise and public wise.

• 1:52Payton Moreland?

  And I mean, to be honest, oh my gosh, guys, these new hormones are no joke. All I do is just cry and then.

• 2:02Garrett Moreland?

  It's true. Peyton been crying a lot, but that's okay. It's hard being a mommy. She is a trooper. She did such a good job. I guess we should update you. Everything went smooth. Peyton is feeling, I mean.

• 2:15Payton Moreland?

  I mean, I'm stitched up and in a diaper, but I'm feeling good.

• 2:18Garrett Moreland?

  She's feeling good and things are good. Baby is extremely healthy.

• 2:23Payton Moreland?

  She's just so perfect little angel. It's just.

• 2:27Garrett Moreland?

  She's very cute. Here's the back of her head.

• 2:29Payton Moreland?

  So crazy. Props to anyone who's done this before. It's so crazy and I'm actually really excited that you guys kind of get to. I mean, think like they started this journey with us back when we were just little kids getting married. And now here we are with our own little kid. And I'm so grateful that you guys are here and that you've stuck around and that you get to go through this with us. But this is our little update.

• 2:56Garrett Moreland?

  They're matching.

• 2:57Payton Moreland?

  So cute about what, um, yeah, what the next couple of weeks are going to look like. Again, thank you for being patient. It's new content. If you've heard the content before, you're also still getting new content somewhere else. So, uh, yeah, we love you. We do hope to get back to work sooner rather than later. But yeah, just kind of navigating this, this new part of our life while keeping you guys updated and along for the ride.

• 3:26Garrett Moreland?

  We're actually recording this before we even posted anything on social media. I don't know if there will be anything on social media yet. But if you want any updates, usually follow us on Instagram. And you can hear any updates there. If you don't give a crap, don't blame you. And you're just here for the true crime content. Skip ahead like 20 more seconds. It'll be playing. But thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting. I don't know. Anything else?

• 3:53Payton Moreland?

  No, we love you guys. We're doing great. Morland's are doing great. All four of us. Daisy's handling it good. She's just very in love and concerned about the new baby. But yeah, things are going good and I guess we'll just continue to keep you guys updated. I hope you enjoy today's episode. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my Husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 4:19Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 4:21Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 4:21Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband. Welcome back. Another Monday, another episode. Here we are. Thank you for being here. Just a reminder for those watching for the first time. Peyton is telling me a case that I have no idea what's going to happen. I haven't heard this. Yeah, just a reminder on that.

• 4:38Payton Moreland?

  I love true crime.

• 4:40Garrett Moreland?

  Peyton loves true crime. I've always hated it. I'm getting more.

• 4:44Payton Moreland?

  What is that?

• 4:45Garrett Moreland?

  Well, because everyone now is like, do you really hate it? Do you really hate it?

• 4:49Payton Moreland?

  Do you?

• 4:50Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, hate's a strong word.

• 4:52Payton Moreland?

  You're going back on your.

• 4:53Garrett Moreland?

  But I don't enjoy it.

• 4:55Payton Moreland?

  But you don't mind sitting here?

• 4:57Garrett Moreland?

  No, no, no, that's a little far. I have mine sitting here.

• 5:01Payton Moreland?

  You just.

• 5:01Garrett Moreland?

  So I guess I go with hate.

• 5:02Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, I watch still true crime documentaries all the time. You won't watch it with me?

• 5:06Garrett Moreland?

  No, I'm like, hey, I'm going to go watch something else. That's true. Reminder for those who want bonus episodes, we have Patreon and we have Apple subscriptions. And Spotify subscriptions. You can hear all of our audio ad free. And we also post bonus episodes. So go and check that out. Jumping into my 10 seconds here, for those who play golf, I golfed at a place in Las Vegas called Shadow Creek. Extremely expensive. I'll probably never do it again, but it was a once in a lifetime experience. If you golf, you should know the name. If not, then you can go look it up on Google. Crazy experience. Um, I'm definitely not good enough to golf there, but it was fun.

• 5:48Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know how to explain it. It was probably the nicest golf course. It is the nicest golf course that I've ever golfed at. So yeah, that's what I did. It was fun. I had a good time. Daisy is over here going absolutely insane. She got this.

• 6:01Payton Moreland?

  I was gonna say.

• 6:02Garrett Moreland?

  She got this toy and she is tearing. She usually doesn't do this.

• 6:05Payton Moreland?

  No. If you're on audio, go watch video right this second because Daisy has a cow.

• 6:13Garrett Moreland?

  She's stopping now because we embarrassed her.

• 6:14Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, but she has been digging the insides of this cow out the entire intro.

• 6:21Garrett Moreland?

  That's all we have for you guys. Golf.

• 6:25Garrett Moreland?

  Bagel shop's coming soon. Stay tuned. It's coming. Peyton's going to be baking bagels there. So you definitely will want to check that out. And on that note, let's hop into today's case.

• 6:35Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for today's episode are AETV.com, Biography.com, Hell's Princess, Legends of America.com, Most Notorious, The Daily Beast.com, Dark Histories Podcast, Wikitree, and as always, our sources are always listed in our episode notes. Sometimes I do keep some out so I don't spoil the story. So feel free to go check the rest of them out. Now, before we get into it, this episode contains discussions of alcohol abuse, domestic violence, suicide and murder. So please listen with care. Have you ever had that moment when you realized someone that you thought you knew was actually kind of a total stranger?

• 7:20Payton Moreland?

  Like maybe you thought you were friends just to find out they were using you. What if they weren't just lying about their intentions, but kind of about who they were entirely? Now, obviously we know there's a word for that nowadays. It's called catfishing. And luckily these days it's not that hard to reveal. You just do a quick search, a reverse image lookup. Due diligence will probably lead you to the truth. But if you flashback to the early 1900s, when there was no internet and you had to just take people at their word, well, catfishing was a lot easier. Being a con man was a lot easier.

• 7:59Garrett Moreland?

  I was going to say, I bet you it was way easier to scam people back then.

• 8:03Payton Moreland?

  Drifting, the whole thing.

• 8:05Garrett Moreland?

  Granted, I know there's different scams now because we have the internet.

• 8:08Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Garrett Moreland?

  So I guess it's different.

• 8:10Payton Moreland?

  But I feel like everyone now is a little on edge.

• 8:13Garrett Moreland?

  Sure.

• 8:14Payton Moreland?

  Just like a little, we've heard a little too many horror stories with the internet.

• 8:17Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 8:18Payton Moreland?

  But if you think back then, you live in a local town, some newbie comes through and it's like, oh, I have this amazing.

• 8:25Garrett Moreland?

  Billionaire and I have.

• 8:26Payton Moreland?

  I do this and this. And I mean, why would you not believe them?

• 8:30Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, true.

• 8:31Payton Moreland?

  And this is at the center of today's case. So in the year 1901, literally early 1900s, 30-year-old Peter Gunness found himself in this situation. Okay? Peter was originally from Norway, but he had immigrated years ago to Indiana. And now he was married with a child and another one on the way. He had a thriving business as a butcher and he was really well-liked in his Indiana community. But then on September 1st, 1901, everything changed. Peter lost his wife during the birth of their second child.

• 9:15Payton Moreland?

  So he now needed help caring for his two kids, one a newborn. So he immediately starts looking for another wife. And as fate would have it, he reconnected with a fellow Norwegian immigrant. A woman he had boarded with years before, a woman named Belle Surenson.

• 9:38Payton Moreland?

  Now Peter had always liked Belle ever since they immigrated. He loved her Norwegian home cooking and he took comfort in her company as she was also widowed at this time. So now with both of them single, they decided to move out of the friend zone and they got married on April 1st, 1902. And Peter actually moved into Belle's house, making a family with Peter's two kids and her three. So now five kids for them. They should have been one big happy family. But terrible things started to happen almost immediately.

• 10:19Payton Moreland?

  So on April 6th, less than a week after their marriage, Peter's youngest daughter died while Belle was taking care of her. Again, she's just seven months old. And a few months later, on December 16th, 1902, tragedy struck again. Belle's eldest daughter, 12-year-old Jenny, ran to the neighbor's house in the middle of the night and she told the neighbor they needed help because something was wrong with her stepdad. So the neighbor runs over to the family's house and they find Peter on the living room floor with his face covered in blood.

• 10:59Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 11:00Payton Moreland?

  Now, Peter has no pulse, so the neighbor sent his son off to find a doctor and he stayed behind to comfort Peter's wife and kids.

• 11:10Garrett Moreland?

  To find a doctor.

• 11:12Payton Moreland?

  I mean, it's 1902.

• 11:13Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Payton Moreland?

  It's just weird.

• 11:15Garrett Moreland?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:16Payton Moreland?

  So a little while later, the neighbor boy returned with the doctor who also happened to be the local coroner. And by that time, Peter's body had grown cold. So the coroner takes one look at him and immediately thinks this man was murdered. So he asked the now two-time widow Belle, what is this story here? Like, how was he injured? How did this happen? And Belle tells the doctor, it all went down like this.

• 11:47Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, no.

• 11:48Payton Moreland?

  Last night around 11:00 PM, Peter, her new husband, went to put his shoes on to go outside and lock up the family farm. And while he was doing so, a meat grinder fell from the top shelf and hit him on his head. She says it knocked him to the ground and at that point, Peter accidentally flipped over a pot of boiling brine and burned himself. He calls out to Belle in pain, so she runs to him, tends to his injuries, and once he was patched up, she brought him his night shirt so he could just go to sleep in the living room while she was upstairs asleep with the kids.

• 12:29Payton Moreland?

  Now around 3:00 AM, she wakes up to Peter calling for her again, saying his head is hurting. So Belle sent Jenny to the neighbor's house for help. Sadly, by the time she got back with the neighbor, Peter was gone. And as detailed as this story was, and even for it being 1902, this coroner isn't convinced.

• 12:53Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, her first husband dies.

• 12:56Payton Moreland?

  His wife dies, then the youngest child.

• 12:59Garrett Moreland?

  And then now her second husband has died.

• 13:02Payton Moreland?

  In the house.

• 13:03Garrett Moreland?

  Coincidence? Not sure about that.

• 13:05Payton Moreland?

  So for one thing, Peter's wounds didn't match his wife's story and rigor mortis didn't support the supposed time of death. So the next day, the doctor performed an official autopsy and he discovered Peter actually had no burns at all on his body, but his nose was cut and broken, showing blunt force trauma. He also had a deep one-inch wound above the back of his skull, which led the doctor to conclude that his cause of death was shock and pressure caused by that fracture to the back of his head.

• 13:47Payton Moreland?

  He's so suspicious though, that he's not ready to leave it at that. He insisted on an inquiry just two days later, so now December 18th, 1902. The 43-year-old widow Belle called her daughter Jenny as a witness. Jenny gave pretty much the exact same story as her mom to officials. In fact, it was so close that the doctor thinks Jenny might have been coached what to say before this inquiry. And he decided to press the widow to find out. So he asked Belle, hey, did you receive life insurance from your husband's first death?

• 14:27Payton Moreland?

  Implying that she was making a business out of being a black widow. And Belle becomes absolutely hysterical, okay? And although he has this nagging feeling, with no hard evidence, the doctor is basically forced to retreat despite his beliefs. So he rules the death in accident, absolving the widow of wrongdoing, but not necessarily of suspicion.

• 14:54Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, because I mean, I guess it's not really his job as much as I'm sure he wants to press forward.

• 14:59Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, he's a doctor. He's not a detective, so yeah, I get it.

• 15:04Payton Moreland?

  So locals in the area wondered for years if Belle was really the loving wife and mother that she appeared to be, or something else. Little did they know, she was actually somebody else, a completely different person than the woman Peter thought he had married. The wonderful Norwegian cook that he knew as Belle was actually a serial criminal.

• 15:33Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 15:34Payton Moreland?

  So Belle was actually born, named Brynhild Strewset.

• 15:40Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, so her name's not even Belle?

• 15:42Payton Moreland?

  No, her name's Brynhild. And she grew up in Norway. She was born on November 11th, 1859. And she grows up in a big family on a pretty unimpressive farm. They didn't own, they leased, and Brynhild contributed by collecting firewood as a kid. And then in 1874, when she was 14 years old, she took a job as a dairy maid for a neighbor and started earning extra money for the family. And she did work hard. She became known around the area as sturdy and reliable. But then when she was just 17 years old, Brynhild got pregnant by a landowner's son.

• 16:26Payton Moreland?

  And not wanting to marry someone below his status, the guy actually just beat her up in hopes of making her miscarry.

• 16:36Garrett Moreland?

  Holy.

• 16:37Payton Moreland?

  And she did. So after this entire experience at 17.

• 16:44Garrett Moreland?

  Wild.

• 16:45Payton Moreland?

  Brynhild became bitter, which is definitely understandable. I think what's so crazy when we cover crimes from the early 1900s and even earlier, is that status is so often a motive of murder, which we don't as often see today.

• 17:06Garrett Moreland?

  No, I mean, status is still a thing now, but not like it was in the early, I mean.

• 17:11Payton Moreland?

  It was livelihood, it was survival.

• 17:12Garrett Moreland?

  It's not like it was. It's, yeah, it's, status was everything, actually.

• 17:16Payton Moreland?

  It was the way that you were able to flourish.

• 17:19Garrett Moreland?

  It's the way you were raised, it's like everything was based off of status.

• 17:22Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 17:23Garrett Moreland?

  To an extent, but yeah.

• 17:24Payton Moreland?

  And it is so crazy how in a lot of earlier cases that we cover, that is so often a motive for horrible crimes like this. So again, she is bitter, but what puzzled a lot of people in the area was pretty soon after this entire incident, the landowner's son actually became sick and eventually died.

• 17:49Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, pharma.

• 17:50Payton Moreland?

  Now, he had previously been young and healthy, so people couldn't help wondering why. They believe that Brynhild, who was vocally and obviously bitter, had something to do with the landowner's son's death.

• 18:06Garrett Moreland?

  Ooh, I have a hard time with this one.

• 18:08Payton Moreland?

  But no one had any proof.

• 18:11Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 18:11Payton Moreland?

  Obviously. So life goes on. And in 1881, when Brynhild was 22, she left Norway and actually went to join her older sister, Nellie, who had immigrated to Chicago. Now, like many immigrants, Brynhild took a new name upon arriving in America. She decided on Belle Peterson, which sounded more American to her. Now Belle, at this point, was five foot 10. She was over 200 pounds. She was very capable and sturdy, and she immediately found work as a servant and started working toward her own American dream. Now, in March 1884, when she was 25 years old, Belle married fellow Norwegian immigrant, Mads Sorensen. Now, Mads was a gentleman.

• 18:56Payton Moreland?

  He was taller than Belle at almost six feet. He was five years older. He worked as a night watchman at a department store, and he gave Belle everything he could on his salary. A comfortable apartment, jewelry, nice clothes. I mean, they were both Norwegian immigrants trying to, you know, create a life together in America. But this wasn't enough for Belle. She wanted more. Specifically, she wanted to be a mom. So she and Mads tried, but she couldn't conceive. She brainstormed other ways that she could get a baby. Her sister, Nellie, had five. So Belle actually asked her sister, hey, can I adopt your youngest baby?

• 19:40Payton Moreland?

  Now, Nellie's like, no, you can't. Which makes Belle furious.

• 19:46Garrett Moreland?

  That's kind of a, maybe it's normal, but that's kind of strange. I mean, that's really strange, honestly. That's weird.

• 19:51Payton Moreland?

  I think it's also strange to them because it causes a rift and they stop talking.

• 19:56Garrett Moreland?

  Well, yeah, could you imagine being the sister? You're like, uh, no, you can't have my baby.

• 20:02Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 20:03Garrett Moreland?

  I don't know.

• 20:04Payton Moreland?

  Let's be honest. How many makeup products have you bought, loved for a week, and then completely forgot about? I think this is a common problem that anyone who loves makeup has run into. But that is where Jones Road Beauty Miracle Balm comes in to help us. Okay, I have been using this miracle balm for a while. I like to just put it places that I'm looking for a little bit more coverage, a little bit more sparkle, but nothing crazy. And the best part about it is it pairs so well with every other Jones Road product. They actually just launched the Bobbi Kit 6.0. It's Bobbi Brown's exclusive edit for the season, designed to give you a complete effortless

• 20:49Payton Moreland?

  look without having to figure out which products and shades work together, which honestly, that's a selling point right there for me is that everything works together seamless at Jones Road. Modern day makeup that's clean, strategic, and multifunctional for effortless routines. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free full-sized mascara on their first purchase when they use code MWMH at checkout. So just go to Jones Road, look around, look for what you want, and then make sure to use code MWMH at checkout. Head to jonesroadbeauty.com, use code MWMH at checkout, and after your purchase, they will ask where you heard about them, and please support our show and tell them we sent you. All right, you guys, we are jumping into an ad, and let me guess, you've got a folder

• 21:32Payton Moreland?

  of saved Instagram workouts that you never actually do. I feel called out. I literally do that. Or you've been doing the same routine for two years. Ladder is an expert strength training plan, not a content library. These aren't influencer workouts or challenges. It's real progressive programming designed by certified coaches. On Ladder, you get a new plan every week that builds on the last. The workouts connect. Each week progresses from the one before through structured training blocks, and your progress is tracked automatically. The app remembers your weights, your reps, your sets, so you can see yourself getting stronger over time. Like I said, I'm not sitting here scrolling through my phone, looking for workouts that

• 22:16Payton Moreland?

  probably don't even go well together. Ladder sets it all up for me, takes the headache out of going to the gym and makes it so I can just simply show up. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear, telling you exactly what to do for every single workout. No thinking, just everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/husband, take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. And then use this link, you can get a free seven-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join. Again, you guys, that's using the link ladder.fit/husband. So she doesn't stop looking for ways to get a child, though. And finally, in 1891, when she was 32 years old, one of Belle and Mads' neighbors becomes

• 23:01Payton Moreland?

  terminally ill. And Belle spotted an opportunity. She begged the woman to let her adopt her eight-month-old daughter, Jenny. At least temporarily. Like, you're dying, you're terminally ill, let me just take care of her for you.

• 23:20Garrett Moreland?

  I would, the reason it's messed up because it's so selfish.

• 23:23Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 23:24Garrett Moreland?

  She's doing it for her. She's not doing it for the baby.

• 23:26Payton Moreland?

  Right. But this neighbor, who's obviously struggling through their own things, agrees. So Jenny became Belle and Mads' first child. Now, several years later, after Jenny's birth mom had passed away, her birth father remarried and actually tried to take Jenny back.

• 23:48Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Payton Moreland?

  Belle's like, no, I love her, and she's mine. She's my baby. So the father took Belle to court, and he lost because she had been raising Jenny since she would, since she was eight months old.

• 24:04Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 24:05Payton Moreland?

  So Belle won legal custody of Jenny, and that whole process seems to have given her an idea. Between 1896 and 1898, Belle and Mads somehow came into four more children.

• 24:23Garrett Moreland?

  You're a lot like.

• 24:25Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 24:25Garrett Moreland?

  They, I'm not gonna say stole, but they somehow got.

• 24:29Payton Moreland?

  They're collecting children.

• 24:31Garrett Moreland?

  Collecting, there you go, that's a good word.

• 24:32Payton Moreland?

  So sources conflict, but it seems like all of the children were adopted. Two died within the first five months of their lives. Which is not completely unheard of back then. But what was strange is Belle actually had life insurance policies on these babies.

• 24:51Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, dude.

• 24:52Payton Moreland?

  I don't know, maybe it's a precaution. Mads apparently thought so because he's staying with Belle. That was all the way up until July 30th, 1898, when one day he came back from work very sick. It was just a cold and a headache, but Belle gave him something for it and sent her husband off to bed. But when she went back to check in on him later, Mads was dead. Belle called the family doctor. He declared the cause of death a cerebral hemorrhage, and he asked to see the medicine that Belle had given Mads earlier that night. And Belle's like, oh, doctor, I can't give it to you. I've thrown it away.

• 25:33Payton Moreland?

  And then she proceeded to collect on Mads' life insurance policy, the third person in her family that has now died, and she's collecting the policy on. She made a total of $5,000 off her first husband's death. Today, that would be about $192,000.

• 25:49Garrett Moreland?

  Wow.

• 25:50Payton Moreland?

  She then proceeded to use this money to buy a 13-room farmhouse on 48 acres in northern Indiana.

• 25:59Garrett Moreland?

  It sounds like she wants to collect children and be a single mom.

• 26:05Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Garrett Moreland?

  Like, that's, that seems like that's what's happening right now.

• 26:09Payton Moreland?

  This purchase, having all of these children without actually having birthed any of them, and then this purchase of this beautiful farmhouse on land that she now owns is quite the come up for the once poor Norwegian. And this is basically where she's at when Peter and the residents of their Indiana community get to know Belle, okay? As we've already discussed, Belle is this well-to-do Norwegian widow to all of these people, and she did everything she could to keep up this image. She raised her kids and Peter's one remaining daughter.

• 26:50Payton Moreland?

  She took care of the farm until the day that Peter died on her living room floor. And then people started asking questions. It was just the doctor at first, but then one day Belle got a visit from Peter's brother named Gust. And Gust wanted to make sure that Peter's life insurance policy paid out to his biological daughter, Belle's stepdaughter. Belle said, ah, sorry, brother. Peter had changed the policy to invest in a mining company, which would eventually make his daughter rich. And so Gust was like, great, let me see the paperwork. Show me the shares. Belle's like, I don't have them.

• 27:31Payton Moreland?

  So he starts becoming suspicious of his brother's wife. Belle responded to Gust's concerns by inviting him to stay at the farm. She said he could help work on the land and look after his niece for as long as he wanted. But Gust decided on a different course of action. One night, he packed up and ran, kidnapping his five-year-old niece and taking her with him. I must have.

• 27:56Garrett Moreland?

  I don't blame him.

• 27:57Payton Moreland?

  It must have been a shock for Belle to wake up and find her stepdaughter missing, but she didn't end up taking action. After all, she still had three kids of her own to take care of, not to mention this gigantic farm. So over the next two years, she tries to run things by herself. But by 1904, the farm was getting unmanageable, so Belle took out a want ad in a local Norwegian language newspaper, seeking a farm worker. And it ended up being 30-year-old Olaf Lindblom, who got the job.

• 28:32Garrett Moreland?

  Olaf.

• 28:33Payton Moreland?

  Olaf. Well, it is, it was a Norwegian newspaper.

• 28:36Garrett Moreland?

  Seems like such a Norwegian name.

• 28:38Payton Moreland?

  He just wanted to work there for the summer, like in Frozen, Olaf? Wants to see what Frozen things do in summer.

• 28:44Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, really?

• 28:45Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:45Garrett Moreland?

  I didn't know that, that's cute.

• 28:47Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, cuz they melt.

• 28:48Garrett Moreland?

  Oh.

• 28:49Payton Moreland?

  He said, I've never been through a summer cuz he melts.

• 28:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Payton Moreland?

  So Olaf moved onto the farm with everything he owned, including his $600 life savings, and started working on the land. And obviously, things soon get very steamy with him and his boss. Olaf started writing letters to his parents in Norway, saying he had met a woman that was his boss that he was now planning to marry.

• 29:13Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, great. He's gonna die. He's gonna get killed.

• 29:16Payton Moreland?

  He also begins bragging about it when he goes out for a night on the town drinking. The whole town at this point basically knows that Belle had hired this man to come work on her farm, and now he's telling everyone they're engaged. So people were surprised a little while later when Olaf suddenly disappeared.

• 29:35Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 29:36Payton Moreland?

  They asked Belle where he had gone, and she tells different people different stories. People were curious, but Olaf was an outsider, so eventually they kind of just let it go, and they noticed that Belle placed another ad, and then another. And every time that she hired a new Norwegian immigrant farmhand.

• 29:56Garrett Moreland?

  He disappeared.

• 29:57Payton Moreland?

  They would write home about her and then disappear.

• 30:00Garrett Moreland?

  That's in- that's insane.

• 30:01Payton Moreland?

  Mysteriously leaving their belongings and money behind. Now Belle would always say she didn't know where they went, and she would just kind of help herself to everything they left behind. She had basically become the ultimate catfish, as her tactics would soon show.

• 30:20Garrett Moreland?

  The problem is, yeah, sure, she's a catfish, but she's killing people.

• 30:26Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. She's a grifter.

• 30:29Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Payton Moreland?

  So eventually Belle started posting ads looking for love and money. She boasted about this beautiful farm and said the man would need to have some cash. She had a ton of potential suitors, eight to 10 letters a day from all over the country of men who wanted to come, become her husband.

• 30:49Garrett Moreland?

  It's like the modern, it's like the modern day Tinder.

• 30:52Payton Moreland?

  Bachelor.

• 30:53Garrett Moreland?

  Or Bachelor.

• 30:53Payton Moreland?

  This is literally, we're watching Bachelorette.

• 30:55Garrett Moreland?

  I like this.

• 30:56Payton Moreland?

  In real time. So one man who replied was a 49-year-old Norwegian farmer named Andrew Helgalian. Okay, I really looked up these names to try to figure out how to say them, so I hope I'm saying them right. Andrew had actually struggled since moving to the United States. He often missed Norway, and Belle promised him, here, come move with me. We will have traditional Norwegian feasts. We will be a Norwegian family. Um, and she's like, you won't be lonely anymore. Come, come quick and take all your money out of the bank and come move here as soon as possible.

• 31:33Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 31:34Payton Moreland?

  But Andrew isn't ready just yet, so she keeps moving. Potential suitors dropped bi-weekly to visit and prove their worth, and no matter how well the visits went, no one seemed to stay very long, and a lot of them left without taking their stuff. Belle practically collected trunks left behind by men during their quick visits and departures.

• 32:00Garrett Moreland?

  I'm so confused.

• 32:01Payton Moreland?

  Literally, her farmhouse soon had an entire storage room full of men's belongings that they had left at her house when they were coming to visit. So this went on until the summer of 1906, when Belle was now 47 years old. She noticed her beloved Jenny, who was now 16 years old, was getting a lot of attention. Jenny even had a new boyfriend, someone who was taking her away from Belle and the farm. Obviously, she's 16 years old, any 16-year-old girl. So Belle didn't want to give her favorite daughter up to anyone. She announced she was sending Jenny to college in California, and when the time came to

• 32:44Payton Moreland?

  see Jenny off in December of 1906, she departed rather abruptly. She never said goodbye to anyone. She never wrote anyone letters. She never answered anyone's letters. It's kind of just like all the men who had visited the farm. The child Belle had once wanted so, so badly had simply disappeared.

• 33:04Garrett Moreland?

  What is happening? There's just no way she's just killing all these people.

• 33:09Payton Moreland?

  Now, if Belle was torn up over her missing daughter, she didn't show it. She just kept looking for love, like continuing this on. By June 1907, she was still doing long distance with Andrew. This was the reluctant 49-year-old farmer who hadn't decided to come visit yet. And at the same time, she also hired another guy, Ray Lambfair. He was a local whose family had actually fallen from grace. Ray's dad was a justice of the peace who had lost it, basically becoming a drunk, which back in these days was, again, not a good sign for your reputation.

• 33:47Garrett Moreland?

  Status.

• 33:47Payton Moreland?

  Yes. And Ray didn't learn from his father's mistakes, even though he was a skilled carpenter. He had got drunk one night and gambled away all his money. Now Belle, however, didn't seem concerned about this behavior. She invited him to live with her in the Grand Central Station farmhouse. This is what she referred to it as. And that lasted until January 1908, when surprise, Andrew, her long-distance boyfriend, finally decides, I am going to move in with you, Belle. He arrived at the farm with his entire life savings sewn into his underwear. So Belle sent her side piece, Ray, who had no cash in his undies, to sleep in the barn. She's like, you're gonna keep working for me. They were hooking up.

• 34:32Payton Moreland?

  You're gonna go sleep in the barn because Andrew, my main boyfriend, is coming to take your room.

• 34:38Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 34:39Payton Moreland?

  Now Andrew probably felt like a winner at this point, but sadly for him, his honeymoon didn't last. By January 14th, Andrew had fallen ill, and by the end of the day, he had vanished. So obviously, we know the pattern here. Belle places an ad in the paper. The guy would come being lured in with promises. He'd fall in love and then he'd disappear.

• 35:01Garrett Moreland?

  I'm just trying to figure out if all these people have died, even her daughter. I mean, I guess her daughter. I don't even know if I can call her her daughter, but.

• 35:09Payton Moreland?

  I mean, she legally got custody, so.

• 35:11Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, true. Okay.

• 35:13Payton Moreland?

  So here's the thing, though. These disappearances, although being noticed, weren't investigated much because most of the men were immigrants without ties in the community. But this time, Ray got involved. This is the man who was living in the barn, who was the side piece. Okay? This jilted carpenter was furious about being kicked out and replaced by Andrew. And when he got back that day and found that Andrew was now missing, his eyes kind of opened to who Belle really was. And remember, he is a local. His dad is a local.

• 35:56Payton Moreland?

  So angry that he was kicked out and then having this realization about who Belle is, he starts harassing Belle, implying to her that he knows what she was doing to the men who were coming to visit her. And Belle responded by firing him and chasing him off her property at gunpoint. She then proceeded to write a letter to local law enforcement, telling them Ray was showing up to her house unwanted, and she hired a new man to replace him. But none of that stopped Ray from sneaking onto her farm. So in March of 1908, Belle had Ray arrested for trespassing. So I just want to make it clear here. Ray isn't just doing this out of the goodness

• 36:41Payton Moreland?

  of his heart. He was in love with Belle and then scorned. He's now a man scorned and out for vengeance, which is why he is even sneaking onto her farm and getting trespassed.

• 36:55Garrett Moreland?

  Got it.

• 36:56Payton Moreland?

  So she wrote a statement saying that he showed up almost every night drunk, harassed her, and committed various small crimes on her property. Now Ray pleaded guilty and paid Belle $1 in fines, but he keeps showing up.

• 37:09Garrett Moreland?

  $1, okay.

• 37:10Payton Moreland?

  So she had him arrested again, two more times, actually, until finally, this hard-drinking son of a justice of the peace was put in jail. It's pretty safe to say that Andrew, Ray, and Belle.

• 37:25Payton Moreland?

  Whether Andrew, who's now missing, by the way, knew about it, it had kind of become this like love triangle where Ray really saw Andrew as his nemesis, but also Belle was now his nemesis. And it was an entire mess. Okay. But around this time in March of 1908, Ray has been arrested. Andrew's brother sends a letter to Belle, asking how Andrew is doing. So Belle writes back saying, oh, um, he's not here anymore. He actually went off looking for another sibling, a long lost brother who was addicted to gambling. So he's not going

• 38:08Payton Moreland?

  to be back for a while. And Andrew's brother's like, oh, this is so far fetched. So he wrote again, asking Belle to send Andrew's letter, explaining all of this, so he could read his brother's own words.

• 38:27Garrett Moreland?

  Imagine sending letters, it'd be way easier to ghost people.

• 38:31Payton Moreland?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:31Garrett Moreland?

  You ghost anyone, you could use any excuse, no one would ever know.

• 38:35Payton Moreland?

  And that's why she is getting away with this so easy.

• 38:37Garrett Moreland?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 38:38Payton Moreland?

  And Belle's like, oh, I actually don't have the letter anymore because Ray, this guy who was working on the farm when Andrew was here, he stole all of Andrew's.

• 38:49Garrett Moreland?

  This is just turning into a complete cluster.

• 38:51Payton Moreland?

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• 39:33Payton Moreland?

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• 41:15Payton Moreland?

  So it's at this point where Andrew's brother is now sus, wondering where Andrew is, that Ray is now going to trial for his crimes against Belle. And Belle shows up, she acts distraught on the stand. And honestly, Belle had fully convinced her community that she was a grieving widow, basically being harassed by this local hardened criminal. And as a result, Ray was found guilty and charged $19. That's about $620 today. Now, not surprising, this doesn't deter him. Within a week, Belle has him arrested again for creeping around her hog pen.

• 41:53Garrett Moreland?

  Okay. Okay. That's so cool.

• 41:56Payton Moreland?

  And as this.

• 41:58Garrett Moreland?

  Nothing like creeping around a hog pen, man.

• 42:00Payton Moreland?

  Entire mess with the pigs is going down.

• 42:03Garrett Moreland?

  I'm talking about.

• 42:03Payton Moreland?

  Belle receives another letter from Andrew's brother saying, you know what, I'm coming into town. I am tracking Andrew down. Belle begins to panic. She's like, um, okay, sure, I'll help you in any way possible. And it's at this point, she also starts telling everyone in town that she thinks Ray is going to burn her house down, that he had been threatening her for a while, she feared her life. And it was just the beginning of her final story. On Monday, April 27, 1908, Belle, who was now 49 years old, visited her lawyer to get her will in order. She left all of her property to her children, Myrtle, Lucy, and Philip.

• 42:46Payton Moreland?

  No mention of Jenny in this will. Jenny, who's missing.

• 42:50Garrett Moreland?

  Jenny's a hundred percent dead.

• 42:52Payton Moreland?

  And no one's like, what about your daughter Jenny, who's in college in California, whatever? And she made contingency plans for if any or all of them were to die. Now, after the lawyer, she went to the bank to put the will in her safe deposit box. Then she went to the grocery store. She bought candy, cake, and a toy train to give the children basically a treat. She also bought two gallons of kerosene. She went home, she ate with her family, and then hung out in the living room with the kids. And Joseph, okay, he's a new farmhand that she had replaced Ray with. Okay, so there's another guy now living at the house, but he's not important to the story. Okay, it's just that he was also there with the family. And all seemed

• 43:37Payton Moreland?

  good. The next morning, however, one of Belle's neighbors gets up at 4am to make breakfast and notices flames pouring from the farmhouse.

• 43:47Garrett Moreland?

  That's crazy. What a coincidence that she bought two gallons of kerosene.

• 43:52Payton Moreland?

  She woke up her husband, son, and brother in law, the men all ran over to find Joseph, the new farmhand, trying to split the front door with an axe. He had woken up just in time to escape his bedroom before the ceiling had caved in. He was now trying to get back into the house to rescue Belle and her kids. Now, as the fire grew, there was nothing more the men could do. The farmhouse started to collapse. So Joseph rode off to alert the authorities and he returned at 5am with the sheriff and volunteer fire department, but by then it was too late. By daybreak, Belle's 13 room farmhouse was just a pile of embers.

• 44:32Payton Moreland?

  Joseph, the neighbors, and some onlookers poured water over the ashes to cool them down. And the firemen found signs of a concentrated blaze by the cellar door, which told them, this fire was probably arson. Now, some begin to whisper that Belle had started the fire herself, but many knew about her problems with Ray. And he begins being named the primary suspect.

• 44:59Garrett Moreland?

  Well, she a hundred percent did it, but that makes sense.

• 45:02Payton Moreland?

  He dispatched his deputies to pick Ray up. And meanwhile, the excavation team found four bodies huddled together in the ruins. Three children and one adult female. And that trumped the naysayers. Everyone's like, look, Belle was a hero. She died. She died trying to save her kids.

• 45:21Garrett Moreland?

  That's crazy.

• 45:21Payton Moreland?

  So soon, the story hit the newspapers. Reports praised Belle as the loving mother she'd always claimed to be, and blasted Ray, calling him a firebug, a maniac, and a murderer. The papers gave all the grisly details of the bodies, but the most important was that Belle's remains had no head. So they couldn't technically identify the body. Some speculated Belle had been decapitated by the flames. Others suspected she had been murdered and the fire was a cover up.

• 45:53Garrett Moreland?

  She's got to be alive somewhere.

• 45:55Payton Moreland?

  In both situations, Ray was to blame. He was charged with murder and arson. The next day, he pleaded not guilty and awaited trial. And meanwhile, folks continued searching the ruins, some hoping to find Belle's missing head. So days go by. By Sunday, May 3, most people had given up. The only searchers left were Joseph and a single neighbor. So they were the ones on site the day Andrew's brother shows up to the farmhouse to find his brother. The farmhouse that is now burned down.

• 46:27Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Payton Moreland?

  And apparently everyone is dead. So he had actually seen news and the fire and thought showing up to the farm was just the best way to find his brother. He was hoping that Andrew would be there. But when he wasn't, he also begins digging through the ashes. And at first he finds nothing, but as he reached the edge of the yard, he had an idea. He asked Joseph if any new plots had been dug on the grounds recently. Joseph was like, actually, yeah, I've dug several trash pits in the hog pen. Belle had planned to bury fish and tomato cans there. So all three of the men go there and start

• 47:09Payton Moreland?

  digging. And as soon as they start digging, they discovered the dirt smelled putrid, much worse than tomato cans. And then three feet down, Andrew's brother hit something soft. And at the bottom of the pit, he saw a torn gunny sack filled with human remains. Now, somehow, the men managed to excavate the body and they laid it out in the barn. And they discovered it was Andrew.

• 47:38Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh. Okay.

• 47:39Payton Moreland?

  They had found

• 47:40Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Payton Moreland?

  his brother. Belle had lied to them, to all of them. She wasn't this loving widow. She was a murderer. And with that revelation in mind, Joseph runs for the coroner and the sheriff and he's like, uh, stop, stop. We, we genuinely do not know this woman and I dug more pits. Like, I'm pretty sure that I dug holes that she put dead people in. We need to begin excavation. So everyone goes back to the hog pen and they begin digging up body parts. And by the afternoon, they had what the coroner judged to be four victims. Two men, one woman and one teenage girl.

• 48:25Garrett Moreland?

  So crazy.

• 48:26Payton Moreland?

  These bodies had been cut into pieces. Due to the state of the remains, the adults couldn't be ID'd. But the teenage girl had tufts of matted blonde hair. And all of the friends and family figured this was Jenny. So all thoughts that Belle was a hero saving her children dissipated. People begin calling her different names. Lady Bluebeard and Hell's Belle. By May 6th, the excavation team had found nine sets of remains. And I'll just fast forward, the final grand total of bodies found in this hog pen was 14.

• 49:05Garrett Moreland?

  That's insane.

• 49:07Payton Moreland?

  14 dead bodies. But the head of the woman found in the fire, that is still missing. So obviously next, people begin to think, did Belle die in this fire? Or had she just taken one of the bodies of the 14 people she had killed, maybe 15? And put them with her children that she actually did kill in the fire. So the mayor goes to the press with all of this information. He says Belle lured in single men and widowers with her want ads, stole their money, and then poisoned them, dismembered their bodies and buried them in her yard. Even though all of this happens, Ray has still been arrested and charged with the murder of Belle and her three kids.

• 49:51Payton Moreland?

  So he ends up going to trial. And basically, everyone goes on the stand and is like, yeah, we've discovered that Belle was a really bad person and Ray most likely didn't do this. And we've also never found Belle's body. Like, we've never officially been able to identify her in any of the bodies that were found. It took the jury a day and a half to come up with a verdict. They found Ray guilty of arson.

• 50:18Garrett Moreland?

  Weird.

• 50:19Payton Moreland?

  But not murder.

• 50:20Garrett Moreland?

  That's really weird.

• 50:22Payton Moreland?

  So he's given a $5,000 fine.

• 50:24Garrett Moreland?

  What the?

• 50:25Payton Moreland?

  And a sentence between two and 21 years. He didn't last anywhere that long. Ray actually died in prison on December 3rd, 1909.

• 50:35Garrett Moreland?

  They basically killed this guy.

• 50:37Payton Moreland?

  Some believe the truth of what happened to Belle died with him, but others think the truth might still be out there. That if Belle didn't die that night in the fire, whose body was in the ruins? And where did Belle go? What's her new name? And did she have a next victim? And that is literally the end of the story.

• 50:57Garrett Moreland?

  Kind of crazy because I bet you she's still out there. Well, I mean, she's not alive anymore. But for sure, she escaped. Threw her body in there, killed her kids and now she's gone somewhere.

• 51:08Payton Moreland?

  The town gossip is that Ray did not start the fire and kill anyone. And Belle escaped and started a new life somewhere. All right, you guys, that was our episode today and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 51:23Garrett Moreland?

  I hate it.

• 51:24Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.

• 51:32Speaker 00

  Great meeting. Who took notes? Anyone?

• 51:37Speaker 04

  With Monday Notetaker, nobody has to take notes again. It joins your call, transcribes it and turns the whole conversation into a clear plan. Action items, owners, deadlines, all right there on your monday.com board, ready for the team. So the meeting ends and the plan already exists. Meetings aren't just talk anymore. Go to monday.com, the AI workspace platform.