229. Dr. Marty Makary: Vaccines, Chronic Disease, Drug Prices & Hormone Therapy

The people running our federal health agencies have finally pulled back the curtain, and what they’re revealing changes everything we thought we knew about how decisions get made at the highest levels of government. In this groundbreaking conversation, FDA Commissioner Dr. Marty Makary discusses the sweeping reforms transforming America’s approach to food safety, drug approvals, and medical transparency under the Make America Healthy Again initiative. What would you change first if you had the power to reform our entire healthcare system? CLICK HERE TO BECOME GARYS VIP!: ⁠https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg⁠ Get Dr. Marty Makary’s book, “Blind Spots“ here: ⁠https://bit.ly/3MIcg9x⁠ Connect with Dr. Marty Makary Website: ⁠https://bit.ly/48JPxCD⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://bit.ly/4j2IBUx⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://bit.ly/4qaIicv⁠ TikTok: ⁠https://bit.ly/48UlOFK⁠ Facebook: ⁠https://bit.ly/4pJ9QG4⁠ X.com: ⁠https://bit.ly/4pIWGcd⁠ Thank you to our partners H2TABS: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg⁠ BODYHEALTH: “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: ⁠http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV⁠ BAJA GOLD: "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa⁠ COLD LIFE: THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: ⁠https://bit.ly/4eULUKp⁠ WHOOP: JOIN AND GET 1 FREE MONTH!: ⁠https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW⁠ AION: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD⁠ A-GAME: “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: ⁠http://bit.ly/4kek1ij⁠ PEPTUAL: “TUH10” FOR 10% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/4mKxgcn⁠ CARAWAY: “ULTIMATE” FOR 10% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/3Q1VmkC⁠ HEALF: 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: ⁠https://bit.ly/41HJg6S⁠ RHO NUTRITION: “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: ⁠https://bit.ly/44fFza0⁠ GOPUFF: GET YOUR FAVORITE SNACK!: ⁠https://bit.ly/4obIFDC⁠ GENETIC METHYLATION TEST (UK ONLY): ⁠https://bit.ly/48QJJrk⁠ GENETIC TEST (USA ONLY): ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3Yg1Uk9⁠ Watch the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: ⁠https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8⁠ Podcasts: ⁠https://bit.ly/3RQftU0⁠ Connect with Gary Brecka Instagram: ⁠https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs⁠ TikTok: ⁠https://bit.ly/4coJ8fo⁠ X: ⁠https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf⁠ Facebook: ⁠https://bit.ly/464VA1H⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2⁠ Website: ⁠https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU⁠ Merch: ⁠https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1⁠ Newsletter: ⁠https://bit.ly/47ejrws⁠ Ask Gary: ⁠https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG⁠ Timestamps 00:00 Intro of Show 03:29 Leading the Food and Drug Administration 07:22 Setting the FDA’s Mission and Agenda 12:12 Time to Change the Medical Educational System 17:01 Going through the FDA’s Agenda 22:48 Rewriting the Food Dietary Guidelines 27:13 Unveiling the Scientific Data 30:01 The Truth behind Hormone Therapy 37:32 Dr. Marty’s Vision for the FDA 39:19 Are Children Over-Vaccinated? 43:21 FDA’s Movement on Vaccination 45:48 FDA Belongs to the American People, Not the Big Pharma 46:41 FDA on Peptides, Stem Cells, and Other Unconventional Therapies 48:14 Scientific Data on Gut Microbiome (Addressing Cancer, Diabetes) 1:14:31 FDA’s Challenges against Political Bureaucracy 1:17:01 What does it mean to you to be an Ultimate Human? Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not provide medical advice. It is not intended for diagnosing or treating any health condition. Always consult a licensed healthcare professional before making health or wellness decisions. Gary Brecka is the owner of Ultimate Human, LLC which operates The Ultimate Human podcast and promotes certain third-party products used by Gary Brecka in his personal health and wellness protocols and daily life and for which Ultimate Human LLC and / or Gary Brecka directly or indirectly holds an economic interest or receives compensation. Accordingly, statements made by Gary Brecka and others (including on The Ultimate Human podcast) may be considered promotional in nature. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If we were to evaluate the US healthcare system over the last 50 years in terms of the performance indicator of the health of the population, US healthcare has been a 50-year failure. We have got to do something different.

• 0:14Gary Brecka?

  The pendulum has swung so far. We are one of the largest, if not the largest, spender on healthcare worldwide. We're one of the sickest, fattest, most disease-ridden nations in the world. Forty-two percent of our children having at least one chronic disease. We don't have a lot of education around whole foods. We know that there's a lot of corruption in our nutritional research, which leads to things like poor food pyramid advice and nutritional guidelines.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  We've medicalized ordinary life and where we are drugging our nation's kids at scale and not talking about the underlying root causes. And we ignore all those issues and all we do is we give doctors a prescription pad and a surgical knife and say, "Go to work, fix all these problems." You're going to have a dysfunctional system. And that's where we are today.

• 0:56Gary Brecka?

  We're very good at disease management and symptom maintenance. We're not very good at disease prevention. Your intention is to try to keep people out of the system because we know that once they're in the system, they just continue to progress.

• 1:08Speaker 00

  You have to have a sense of mission that you want to address a broken system. My number one priority is to deliver more cures and meaningful treatments and healthier food for children. And we're getting stuff done.

• 1:19Gary Brecka?

  In a perfect world, what would you like to see accomplished by our FDA for the betterment of the population?

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Look, our legacy, I hope, will be...

• 1:41Gary Brecka?

  Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything: anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And I don't know if I've ever been more excited to run a podcast than the podcast that I'm going to run today. This has been a long time in the making for influencers like myself and my community. This is a watershed moment for us to actually have access at this level to our federal government, the government agencies, and the people behind the curtain that are actually moving the ball down the field for the Make America Healthy Again agenda. And today, I'm really honored to have the 27th Commissioner of the United States Food and Drug Administration, Dr. Marty Makary. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Good to be with you, Gary.

• 2:26Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, and first of all, I love how you got, you rolled in here. We had a whole food meal, right?

• 2:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:32Gary Brecka?

  And then you did your very first cold plunge.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  First cold plunge. It was quite an experience. I wouldn't say I'm high risk of recurring and doing it again later today.

• 2:42Gary Brecka?

  High risk of recurrence.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:44Gary Brecka?

  Smoking like a tree position.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  I think I'm good for a while.

• 2:46Gary Brecka?

  But no, you need to make this a regular part of your daily routine, Marty.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  How long was I in there for? An hour?

• 2:52Gary Brecka?

  No, three minutes. Three minutes at 52 degrees. But he did amazing. We did a, we did a sauna, then we did a steam room session. Then we went right from the steam. He and Kyle Diamantis got right in the cold plunge. And I'll give it to both of you guys. He stayed in there for the full, full three minutes.

• 3:08Speaker 00

  And the best way to learn about something is to try it.

• 3:10Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, no, I congratulate you for that. But you gotta admit, you feel a little better.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  I do feel an endorphin rush.

• 3:16Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  Similar to when I run, say, 50 milers, but I've never run a 50, 50 mile.

• 3:21Gary Brecka?

  Okay.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  If I did, that would be a similar.

• 3:23Gary Brecka?

  Not a, not a high propensity for recurrence there either.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, low risk of running long races.

• 3:29Gary Brecka?

  So, so Marty, you are in charge of the Food and Drug Administration. So, has that settled in yet?

• 3:36Speaker 00

  No, actually, it has not settled in yet. I still think about it a lot.

• 3:40Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  You know, because the FDA oversees 20% of the US economy.

• 3:45Gary Brecka?

  It's unbelievable.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  We've got offices in 50 countries. It's, it's everything. It's cosmetics, it's food, it's tobacco and vape products, it's devices, wearables, microwave ovens, CAT scan.

• 3:57Gary Brecka?

  Microwave ovens?

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, the radiation part of it. And then drugs, which is what we're known for probably the most. I mean, it's, it's a tremendous responsibility, but. You know, it's a bit decentralized. We have centers and center leaders and it's running, it's going great. The FDA is strong and it's going to continue to be strong.

• 4:17Gary Brecka?

  I gotta ask you, you know, what was the impetus for you to want to take on that kind of role? Because you came out of private practice, your background is a surgeon, right? I found out that you ran one of the first frailty studies linking frailty to, you know, post-operative outcomes, which I find really fascinating. I probably read some of your work because, you know, we know frailty is one of the greatest risks to aging. It's one of the greatest predictors of mortality, actually.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 4:47Gary Brecka?

  But what was it for you that made you say, "I'm willing to take on this level of responsibility"? Because, you know, in some ways, it's kind of thankless work. It can't be a part of your get-rich-quick scheme either.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah. Well, I think you have to have a sense of mission that you want to address a broken system. And I've been at the bedside for a long time, 23 years on faculty at Johns Hopkins. I've had a great run in academic medicine. But when you break bad news and you want there to be something available, or you want to have prevented the tragedy that you're watching unfold, it gives you a deep sense of purpose. And at the FDA, it is all about treatments and prevention and health and the food. People forget that the F stands for food. It doesn't stand for the word "federal."

• 5:46Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, right. A lot of people think it stands for federal.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  There was an FDA employee that thought it stood for "federal."

• 5:53Gary Brecka?

  Wow. They didn't read their paycheck.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  But, I mean, for the most part, there are amazing people that work there, amazing scientists, over 16,000 remarkable employees at the FDA.

• 6:04Gary Brecka?

  That is incredible.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  And so you have to have a sense of, "Look, we have to challenge deeply held assumptions. Why does it take 10 to 12 years for a new cure to come to market? Why do we accept these animal testing requirements that are now no longer necessary because we have better technology that predicts toxicity? Why do we..."

• 6:29Speaker 00

  Allow this grass standard for food to continue to allow pollutants and chemicals to affect our US food supply in ways we don't even fully appreciate. And so you have to have a deep intellectual curiosity. And one thing I love about you, Gary, is you've got the intellectual curiosity to want to roam and not stay in a lane, but to ask any question that is necessary to try to get at a broader question, and that is, how do we improve health at scale?

• 7:00Gary Brecka?

  Well, thank you, first of all. So, you know, when you, when you came in to the Food and Drug Administration and you sort of went from having this myopic view as an outsider to a very introspective view as an insider, and you probably realized at that point the enormity of what you had just been appointed to do. How did you set the agenda for the, and the vision for the FDA? Because, you know, in a lot of ways, I mean, it's a government organization, there's kind of tons of bureaucracy, it's very bloated. This is like an aircraft carrier that is going full speed in one direction, and you want to turn it around and start heading in the opposite direction.

• 7:45Gary Brecka?

  And I've heard you many, many a time, talk about the statistics that our nation is facing, and the very grim statistics, and how this didn't happen overnight, it happened over decades. And so there's like these deeply ingrained processes, and there's, there are bureaucrats that are lifetime unappointed bureaucrats that are in these agencies. How do you come in at the top and effectuate real change?

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, you have to bring in a lot of good people, and we brought in phenomenal people. We explained our mission and vision, and we encourage people to join that mission and vision. And if somebody says that they're not on board with the mission, then we're not afraid to move people if they block what we're trying to do. And what we're trying to do is very simple, and that is to deliver more cures and meaningful treatments to the American people and healthier food for children. Now, we do a lot of stuff. That is the directive that I have given to the agency, and I've said it a million times, and I think most employees at the agency can recite that off the tip of their tongue because...

• 8:53Gary Brecka?

  That's great.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  The last commissioner in the Biden administration had said that his number one priority was fighting misinformation. So I wanted to make it very clear, my number one priority is to deliver more cures and meaningful treatments and healthier food for children. And we're getting stuff done.

• 9:08Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  For example, they talked about banning one food dye for 35 years at the FDA. For 35 years.

• 9:17Gary Brecka?

  Bantered around different committees?

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Committees, frameworks, you know, citizens petitions. And when we got there, within weeks, we took action to remove all nine petroleum-based food dyes from the US food supply.

• 9:34Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  They'd been talking about making the rejection letters of the FDA when drugs are rejected. It's been a mystery, companies can spin the results. We talked about the value of radical transparency where our rejection letters and acceptance letters are now public information. They've been talking about that for two decades. We got it done within a couple of months. Hormone replacement therapy, fixing the

• 10:00Speaker 00

  very dangerous black box warnings.

• 10:02Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 00

  That have done tremendous damage. It was part of group think. It's, you know, fascinating story. I know you've covered it.

• 10:08Gary Brecka?

  No, I want to talk about that, actually.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  We can talk about it, but that, we got that done. We talk about SSRIs, we talk about all sorts of sacred cow topics that you're not supposed to talk about because the medical establishment has already decided that it's it's a settled science. There's nothing to discuss here.

• 10:28Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. You know, it's fascinating is the entire premise of science is based on a question. You know, you learn about the hypothesis when you, you know, first start learning basic biology and a hypothesis is a question.

• 10:41Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 10:41Gary Brecka?

  If we do this, this should be the outcome and then you test it. One of the things about a hypothesis to be valid is that the results should be repeatable. And, you know, if we didn't question science, as we sit here today, we'd still be using leeches, we'd still be doing frontal lobotomies. I think the last one was done in 1969. I mean, that's a barbaric, basically putting an ice pick through the eye socket and scrambling the front all over the brain. OB-GYNs wouldn't be washing their hands before they delivered a baby. Because we didn't have microbial signs until, you know, late 1800s, turn of the 19th century or 20th century. So I, I think. The very premise of challenging the status quo is what sometimes is attacked. It's like, how dare you ask the question?

• 11:23Speaker 00

  How dare you ask the question?

• 11:24Gary Brecka?

  Vaccine just settles. All autism is settled, you know? And, and just to, to broach the question. But we had a fascinating, and this happens with a lot of my guests. Fascinating conversation at lunch today, because you got here, we sat down for lunch. And you talked about medical group think and, and medical dogma. And what I liked is you alleviated the blame from the individual physician, because you talked about how the majority of people, and I think, you know, myself included, when I wanted to study human biology. And I think nearly every physician on the planet begins with the premise of, I want to help people.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:58Gary Brecka?

  Right? I want to make a difference.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:00Gary Brecka?

  And, and talk a little bit about that for people that haven't gone through the medical system, about the grind and the dogma, and how you emerged from this system and now you're a part of this collective.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Well, I will say, Gary, the young people that want to go into healthcare are beautiful people. They're doing it out of a sense of altruism, that there's something larger than ourselves, that contributing to the wellbeing of others is greater than any self-interest. It's a beautiful light that you see shining in a high school student that says, you know, I think I might want to be a nurse. They're different from their peers. A college student that says they want to be a psychiatrist and help people with schizophrenia. Or a nurse's aide who works in a nursing home. It's a different group of people that have this incredible sense of compassion. And that's what unites all of us.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  If I meet a doctor in another country, or a nurse at the train station, there's this incredible bond that we all have, that we have chosen a career out of sense of compassion. But what we do is we take these bright, creative, altruistic young people, and we beat them down for years and years. We give them this rote memorization and regurgitation.

• 13:20Speaker 00

  Curricula and they come out as robotic and they burn out, we burn them out. And then of course they're a little entitled and you fast forward and you go through this, this residency, medical school, memorized regurgitation thing, and they're different people. I mean, the medical school essays I would read of the pre-med students that applied to Johns Hopkins Medical School when I was there, 90% of them wanted to do missions, if not full-time, part of their practice. They wanted to do charity work

• 14:02Speaker 00

  locally or overseas. I mean, these are incredibly bright, creative, altruistic people. And then they come out reciting a canichism over and over again because it's a self-preservation survival mode. It's not their fault. It's just like, it's not the fault of six-year-olds that they're obese. This is something adults have done to children, right? It's not a willpower problem. It's something that the circumstances define. So we have to change medical school education. It is entirely broken. It is focused on treating disease

• 14:43Speaker 00

  with a whack-a-mole mindset and we've not allowed these bright, creative health professionals to go upstream and deal with the underlying root causes. And so you don't talk about food and nutrition. The little nutrition education I got at medical school was misinformation because nutrition science, as you know, is

• 15:05Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. If you want protein to build lean muscle, but without the caloric impact or need to cut, you need Perfect Amino. It's pure essential amino acids, the building blocks of proteins in a precise form and ratio that allows for near 100% utilization in building lean muscle and no caloric impact. So we build protein six times as much as way, but without the excess body fat we normally get during bulking. This is the new era of protein supplementation and it's real. If you want to build lean muscle without having to cut, you need Perfect Amino. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Historically, one of the most corrupted sciences in all of science. And so, we would be taught the dogma of Ansel Keys, that natural saturated fat was at the root of the heart disease epidemic, ignoring the role of refined carbohydrates and fiber, and the value of the soil that food comes from, and the types of food that animals eat before those animals turn into food. So, there's so much of that absent in the modern day world of medicine and medical education, that we've got to fix it. We have to fix it.

• 16:21Gary Brecka?

  And I think it's because, you know, the pendulum has swung so far. We don't need to go through all the stats, but you know, we are one of the largest, if not the largest spender on healthcare worldwide. We're one of the sickest, fattest, most disease-ridden nations in the world, civilized nations for sure. Morbid obesity, chronic, you know, multiple chronic disease in a single biome. Forty-two percent of our children having at least one chronic disease, which is just astounding. You don't see that in other countries. We don't have a lot of education around whole foods, around the importance of mobility. Things like community connection, purpose, go largely pushed aside as not having any impact on lifespan or health span. What's really refreshing to me is, I've heard you speak a number of times.

• 17:06Gary Brecka?

  One of the things that you talked about were some of the specific agenda items that the FDA is doing. And I want to talk about some of those, because you talked about, for example, the number of warning letters that went out during the last administration. I think it was one. The number of letters that went out under your administration, and it was over a thousand. And if you could talk specifically about, you know, your orientation towards prevention versus treatment. You know, your intention is to try to keep people out of the system.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:39Gary Brecka?

  Right? Because we know that once they're in the system... They just continue to progress. All right. And this is, this is what we have right now. We're very good at disease management and symptom maintenance. We're not very good at disease prevention and symptom alleviation or, you know, remission, you know, cure, to use that word. So will you talk about some of the specific agenda items? And, and certainly I would love to my audience to know, what are some of the big wins at the FDA? And what are some of the, you know, agenda items, legislative items that you've got squarely in your crosshairs? You are like, I am going to accomplish these during my tenure.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, I think we have to be honest with ourselves. If we were to evaluate the US healthcare system over the last 50 years, when it comes to gene therapy and sophisticated operations and proton beam therapy for cancer, it's been a sophisticated success story for some individuals. But if we talk about the US healthcare system in terms of the, the performance indicator of the health of the population, US healthcare has been a 50 year failure. We have got to do something different. We cannot just hope that the next gene therapy is going to solve all our problems or the next pill is going to come along.

• 19:03Speaker 00

  We have got to talk about school lunch programs, not just putting six-year-olds on Ozempic. We've got to talk about the quality of sleep, not just putting somebody on first and second line antihypertensives. We've got to talk about natural light exposure, something I know that you talk about. Think about what we do with kids. We take a kid in the middle of their circadian rhythm of a deep sleep. We rattle them, put them on a school bus while it's dark outside.

• 19:32Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  Not because it's good for their circadian rhythm or natural light exposure, but because it's convenient for adults going to work. And then they sit under a micro flashing fluorescent light.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  All day long, sometimes with less natural light exposure than an inmate in a penitentiary.

• 19:50Gary Brecka?

  That is astounding.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  And then we hit them with massive glycemic indices. Over and over again, we pound them with things that make their insulin levels spike. The cells don't like high sugar in the, in the circulating system, so they try to block it. We call it insulin resistance. And that blockage does damage, it's at the root of probably half the conditions we treat. Seventy-five percent of healthcare costs go to chronic diseases. Most chronic diseases are related to the same old problems of insulin resistance and, and inflammation. We get almost no education about in medicine.

• 20:26Gary Brecka?

  Which are preventable.

• 20:27Speaker 00

  Which is avoidable and modifiable with diet and other things. We never talk about that. And then we tell a kid to sit still at a desk for seven hours. And they have trouble doing it. In the middle of those seven hours, we hit them hard with another high sugar ultra-processed glycemic load. They can't sit still for seven straight hours, sitting at a desk under fluorescent light. And what do we do? We say, you're a bad kid. We're going to drug you.

• 20:56Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, you have a behavioral disorder, a mood disorder, yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:59Gary Brecka?

  Impulse control disorder, yeah, we got a lot of labels.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  We have a whole catalog of disorders that we can assign to you. I mean, the most bogus of all ICD diagnoses or DSM diagnoses in medicine is

• 21:15Speaker 00

  oppositional defiant disorder.

• 21:18Gary Brecka?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, what is that?

• 21:20Gary Brecka?

  I don't know.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  A kid disagrees.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  Disagrees. Kid doesn't light the fluorescent light desk for seven hours. Now you have a diagnosed, you're, we've medicalized ordinary life. And when we have a mass societal level of the medicalization of ordinary life and where we are drugging our nation's kids at scale and not talking about the underlying root causes, the types of foods they eat, the importance of natural light, the value of community, the dangers of screen addiction. And we ignore all those issues. And all we do is we give doctors a prescription pad and a surgical knife and say, go to work, fix all these problems. You're going to have a dysfunctional system.

• 22:08Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  And that's where we are today.

• 22:11Gary Brecka?

  And I think that, you know, every parent that's listening to this, you know, just wholeheartedly agrees. And it's so thankful now that we have Food and Drug Administration that's actually listening and doing things. But, you know, in terms of specific line items that you're addressing, because the problem is so vast. You have to start somewhere.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:28Gary Brecka?

  Right? And so how do you start slowing the ship and changing direction? Because, you know, the Food and Drug Administration is not an independent, all encompassing entity. I mean, you're fit into this governmental framework. You know, the Department of Agriculture, Health and Human Services, National Institute of Health. You know, we know that there's a lot of corruption in our nutritional research, which leads to things like Poor Food Pyramid advice and nutritional guidelines. And can you talk a little bit about specifically where are we going from a nutritional perspective? Dietary guidelines, food pyramids, things that the masses can actually begin to rely on to make reasonable choices for, you know, food choices?

• 23:13Speaker 00

  Well, in talking about medical dogma, one of the greatest medical dogmas in modern history has been the broken food pyramid, written by the industry, not based on what the science supported, but based on what the companies wanted you to buy. And so we're rewriting that. And I was excited to see you had Kyle Diamandis, our Deputy Commissioner for Food, on recently.

• 23:33Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, I did.

• 23:34Speaker 00

  He's an amazing guy, isn't he?

• 23:35Gary Brecka?

  Amazing, very well spoken, great background and really committed, you know, like most of the people I meet in the administration.

• 23:40Speaker 00

  Committed and in this purely for the betterment of kids and for the future generation. I mean, a very selfless guy.

• 23:48Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  And that's the kind of person that we have brought in to the FDA. It's a new FDA. We are rewriting the food dietary guidelines and food pyramid with USDA, you know, I say it's Department of Agriculture. And we're going to end the 50 year war on natural saturated fat. We're going to talk about protein, the importance of protein. It's been downplayed. It is very important to the body's physiology. We are going to talk about the type of grains and the importance of fiber. One of the Damage, one of the sources of damage of the modern day health of the nation has been the dogma that

• 24:33Speaker 00

  calories in equals calories out. And it's a zero sum game. It didn't matter how you get those calories. Didn't matter if it's ultra processed food or cardboard with sugar on it. Didn't matter. It's just, you could walk it off. It did. It was a, it was a equation that became the dogma. And, and this was what I was taught in medical school. It's done tremendous damage. We are finally going to talk about the importance of the quality of whole foods, fruits, vegetables, uh, food that comes from

• 25:03Gary Brecka?

  Whole foods.

• 25:03Speaker 00

  Whole foods and food that comes from animals that's, that are raised well. So, um, we're, so we're rewriting all that now. I think it's going to be an amazing moment in American history.

• 25:14Gary Brecka?

  And how soon will the new dietary guidelines be out?

• 25:16Speaker 00

  I think in the next, then, within the next two months.

• 25:20Gary Brecka?

  Within the next two months. Okay. And is this going to be, I mean, are we going to take the food pyramid out of the ground and flip it over and stick it back in the ground, basically?

• 25:29Speaker 00

  I guess, probably.

• 25:30Gary Brecka?

  It's almost like, uh, we're going to, the, the grains, which are the big, the base now might become the, the apex. Cause you said, we're going to talk about the importance of proteins. I mean, and, and you having been a surgeon and done work on frailty, I mean, you understand that sarcopenia, age-related muscle wasting, frailty, like grip strength, inability to actually support your own weight. Um, these are enormous risks to our elderly population. I, I, I watched it happen to my own father. Um, you know, just, uh, you know, he broke his humerus, getting into the bathtub, uh, here over Thanksgiving last year. He ended up staying here for a couple of extra months because he, you know, he's gotten so, so frail in, in older ages.

• 26:14Gary Brecka?

  But what are, you know, concrete things that you can do? Because, you know, there are some big legislative wins. I mean, I want to give you credit for, you know, folic acid, you know, being added as a frontline to events for some of these neurodevelopmental disorders. I love to see nutrients, raw materials, vitamins, minerals, amino acids being used to combat those deficiencies.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:36Gary Brecka?

  Big, uh, you know, tip of the hat for removing the black box warnings from female hormone therapy because as somebody who is married to a woman that just went through menopause, and someone that Has been in the functional wellness space for about 11 years. So many women suffered unnecessarily. And because as soon as you said estrogen, they thought breast cancer. And you talked about a little bit about this study, the Women's Health Initiative. And how the study actually found the polar opposite of what was reported. How does that happen? How do you take data that's resolute? And then restructure that data and create, you know,

• 27:21Gary Brecka?

  a mass misinformation campaign? What would be the impetus for something like that?

• 27:27Speaker 00

  It's, you know, it's old fashioned medical dogma. Careers were built on certain ideas. So one hypothesis was that women should not be taking estrogen because it could increase the risk of breast cancer. And the guy who led that study, the famous Women's Health Initiative study that was first published in 2002, had gone on record, I found out when I looked into this, he'd gone on record saying in a medical journal, we have to stop the HRT bandwagon. In other words, you know, we gotta get women off this. Well, you haven't done this study yet. You know, the purpose of science is you evaluate the data as it comes in. And Albert Einstein had said,

• 28:09Speaker 00

  the sign of an intelligent human being is someone who evolves their position as the data comes in. And so we have to show humility. Well, I didn't see humility in the way that study was presented. There was no statistical significant increase in breast cancer in the women that got hormone replacement therapy compared to those who did not, the control group, in that original 2002 study, but they sold it to the media as an increase in breast cancer.

• 28:39Gary Brecka?

  But why do you think they would do that? I mean, if the study conclusion was something different, why not report the data? So was there, was there a corrupt intent? That was driving some kind of bottom line profit somewhere? There had to be an intentionality behind manipulating that data.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  You know,

• 28:58Gary Brecka?

  At least what's your opinion?

• 28:59Speaker 00

  I think there's a cognitive dissonance involved. It's in psychology, they call it effort justification. It's the same justification by which this cycle of abuse continues in residency, education and medicine. Or in fraternity hazing, it's this sense of, you know, I went through it and then we glamorize it and then it's, it's okay. Entire careers were built. This was a $1 billion government funded study, the largest study of any medical study of its kind.

• 29:30Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, it was massive.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  Up until that time, and so they were dead set on proving this association.

• 29:36Gary Brecka?

  Ah.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Then now the numbers, there were, as there was a slight increase in the number of breast cancer, non-fatal breast cancer cases diagnosed in that treatment group, but it was not statistically significant. So why do we do statistics if you're going to ignore when the statistics tell you it's, it's a difference attributable to noise in the data, not a true association?

• 30:00Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Now, there's been lots of criticism of the type of progesterone used called MPA, which is not a type commonly used in hormone therapy today.

• 30:10Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm. Now we have bioidenticals, right?

• 30:12Speaker 00

  That's right. And some people say, well, that slight increase may have been attributed to that type of progesterone. What was hardly ever discussed was that if you were on estrogen alone in the study, that is, you had your uterus removed, in which, in which case doctors generally do not recommend taking progestin or progesterone.

• 30:32Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  And so they're on estrogen alone. Well, they had a 22% reduced risk of breast cancer.

• 30:40Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 30:40Speaker 00

  Sort of a weird twist of irony.

• 30:41Gary Brecka?

  Hmm.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  Now, I did some research and I had found out that in the meeting of the scientists before they announced that hormone therapy causes cancer.

• 30:51Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  There were dissenting scientists who felt that they got ambushed. They were handed the final publication. They were, they were showing up at a meeting at the Sofitel in Chicago

• 31:04Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  for what they thought was a regularly scheduled meeting to review how the study was going.

• 31:10Gary Brecka?

  Okay.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  There were investigators from around the country. They convened. They thought this was a check-in meeting. And at the meeting, they were told, hey, you can throw out the agenda. We have a finding. And they said, this, we found it causes breast cancer, and they were handed a final written manuscript.

• 31:27Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  And they were like, well, you wrote the whole manuscript. We didn't know about this.

• 31:32Gary Brecka?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  And then they said, the leader says, and it's been submitted to the Journal of the American Medical Association and accepted. And of course, they're like, We didn't, our names are on it. We didn't review it or have input. Right. And so a shouting match erupted. Wow. And a couple of the guys said, you can't put this out there. You dangle something as sensitive as breast cancer to women, quote unquote, you may never be able to put that genie back in the bottle. Hmm. That's exactly what happened. It was prophetic. Wow. Now, um, it turns out that, uh, some of those people came out later and voiced their dissension

• 32:13Speaker 00

  against that group think at the time. And one of them was significantly punished. He was, had his NIH funding removed. Wow. Disagreeing with that party line. Wow. And you realize, uh, this was a personality ego battle that had little to do with the scientific evidence. Masqueraded or camouflaged in high science. Hmm. And the way that it went to the media before it was published, the media told the story that then, let's be honest, a lot of doctors get our, we get our news from the media. Mm hmm. And so we see this study out of the NIH with all these big branded institutions like Harvard, where part of the study, you just assumed. Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  That's the case. All these women were called and told, stop taking it.

• 33:01Speaker 00

  Or women would come in and ask about, hey, I'm having symptoms of menopause. What can I do? They were either never offered hormone replacement therapy or talked out of it. Hmm. Fifty million women. Wow. Were talked out of, never offered or discouraged from taking hormone replacement therapy. Even though when you start it within 10 years of the onset of menopause, it not only reduces the short-term symptoms of, of menopause. That is the hot flashes, night sweats, mood swings, difficulties, sleep. Water retention, you know, all these. Water retention, pain with sexual activity.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  But it also has profound, long-term health benefits, reducing the risk of fatal heart attacks by 25 to 50%. I mean, that's the number one cause of death in women.

• 33:52Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Prevents osteoporosis better than anything else out there. You can take all the calcium in the world.

• 33:59Gary Brecka?

  Right. We talked about this earlier, too.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:01Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this: you're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak, and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart: you're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for our private podcast segment. So that world-renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human community.

• 34:43Gary Brecka?

  And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory, this is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than $100 a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com/vip and step into your ultimate potential. Now, let's get back to the Ultimate Human podcast. I mean, you know, I often say, if there was, if there was like, one thing that you could choose to torture a woman, it's estrogen.

• 35:25Speaker 00

  Taking away their estrogen.

• 35:27Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, you take away their estrogen. Skinny elasticity, you know, overnight, their skin begins to sag and wrinkle and become thinner. Mood changes, frozen shoulder, you know.

• 35:41Gary Brecka?

  Depressive-like symptoms, mood numbness, loss of libido, water retention, you know, weight gain, hot flashes, all of those things. And I think it's just so unnecessary for women to suffer when you have a bio-identical solution that is relatively inexpensive, that in most cases is covered by their health insurance, that could completely turn their life around. I mean, my, my wife entered menopause, and we've been very transparent about this. We've done podcasts about it. We put her Dutch test up on, you know, in the public domain. So she wouldn't be upset that I say this. But the wheels fell off the wagon sort of so fast, you know, for my wife. She was one of those that advanced very quickly into menopause. Some women do it sort of very slowly and they can tolerate a lot of these changes. But literally like flicking a light switch. Wow.

• 36:26Gary Brecka?

  Within days of starting hormone therapy, the symptoms started to resolve. By the third week, frozen shoulder was gone. She didn't have the water retention. The brain fog had lifted. Her mood was noticeably different. And the biggest thing that we noticed was sleep. You know, her sleep started to normalize. And, you know, and I had seen this for the last 10, 11 years in our, in our functional medicine clinic, because by the grace of God, we have a very good OB-GYN that was our clinic director, and she's a functional OB-GYN. So she was on the hormone bandwagon, you know, for years before. She never fell for the dogma. She never fell for the dogma. She read the study herself. Dr. Sarda, big shout

• 37:09Gary Brecka?

  out to you. So, you know, and I just saw these, so many women's lives just change, and it's really sad that so many people have suffered. But this is really what the role of our Food and Drug Administration should be. In, in your view, you know, and I asked this about, to Kyle too, in a perfect world, because the sun's going to set on your tenure in another three years. Yeah. So during your four-year tenure as the, what is it, the 27th Chairman of the Food and Drug Administration, in a perfect world, what would you like to see accomplished by our FDA for the betterment of the population, the American people?

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, I'm glad to hear, I love your wife.

• 37:50Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  I say she's amazing.

• 37:51Gary Brecka?

  She is amazing.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  I'm glad to hear that.

• 37:52Gary Brecka?

  She came into the sauna fully clothed for the record. So Marty and Kyle and I are in there in our bathing suits, we're all sweaty in sauna. She got a text message from one of our, one of my clients and she was like, I gotta share this with you.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, she kept talking and talking. I'm like, how long can you stay in a sauna?

• 38:08Gary Brecka?

  I know, fully clothed.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Fully clothed. Almost like with a sweater on it.

• 38:11Gary Brecka?

  I'm throwing water on the hot coals. We're sweating.

• 38:16Speaker 00

  But we got a lot of feedback on that. So the FDA jumped on the bandwagon 22 years ago and put these black box scary warnings. We removed those black box, black box warnings.

• 38:28Gary Brecka?

  Big win for women, yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  You know, I get women that stop me all the time and say, thank you for setting the record straight. And if that alone is one of our lasting impacts, then I'll consider our time a success. But we've got very ambitious goals. We are eliminating animal testing that's unnecessary.

• 38:50Gary Brecka?

  That's fantastic.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  That also lowers R and D costs. We are committed to lowering drug prices in a significant way. We have a protocol now to get drugs approved in weeks instead of the forever time.

• 39:05Gary Brecka?

  Yep.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  We are doing it with the same scientific integrity and not cutting any corners on the safety. We are making things transparent, adverse events, internal documents. There was stuff on myocarditis and the COVID shot in children. We went fully transparent with that stuff.

• 39:27Gary Brecka?

  So you put the data out, I mean, nobody wants to touch the vaccines, but while we're there, I mean, you've put the data out on vaccines and I know that there is no causal link between vaccines and there's a direct line to autism. But there is.

• 39:42Gary Brecka?

  Definitely data that we are over vaccinating our, our children. What is there 72 vaccines now? 79 vaccines on the schedule?

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Just before we came into office, yeah, there was a recommendation to give a six-year-old girl 70 more COVID shots in her average lifespan.

• 40:00Gary Brecka?

  That is

• 40:01Speaker 00

  One every year.

• 40:02Gary Brecka?

  One every year.

• 40:03Speaker 00

  And we don't know if, we don't know if it's necessary. There's, where's the data showing it's necessary? There's high population immunity. Many people feel that we've been lied to with medical dogma during the COVID years. The worst thing you can do as a doctor is to tell someone to do something with such absolutism, masqueraded as evidence-based, settled science, when the actual data is very flimsy or not, nonexistent, and it's just your opinion. So unfortunately, we did see the use of science as political propaganda.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  But look, our legacy, I hope, will be a healthier generation of children. We're doing so much on the healthy food side, the stuff that Kyle talked about. We're looking at the thousand-plus chemicals that are in the European food supply that are not in the Ameri-, sorry, that are in the American food supply, that are not in the European food supply because of our grass regulation that we are changing.

• 41:04Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  We took action on pharma ads. Many of these ads can be misleading, and so we're going to enforce the regulations. We're sending out those warning letters and letting the companies know you cannot, you know, create a misleading impression.

• 41:20Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  There's a regulation that says they can't be, create a misleading impression, and so we plan to enforce those regulations.

• 41:27Gary Brecka?

  That's great.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  They sent out zero letters last year.

• 41:30Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, you too. I remember you talking about that at the Maha Summit, zero letters, and you had over a thousand that you'd sent out.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:35Gary Brecka?

  You know, just warning. I want to go back to the vaccines for a minute because it's a real hot topic, and I think it's a hot topic because, not because of the real science, but because of the, you know, political cloud that surrounds it. And if we lay politics aside for a minute, and we understand that, you know, that Pharmaceutical companies that make these vaccines that make it under the schedule are, you know, protected from liability. There's a liability shield for them. You know, as a purely capitalistic move, if I could create a product and not have any liability,

• 42:12Gary Brecka?

  I would drive a truck through that, right? And I think that's what you see happen. You see the number of vaccines on the schedule absolutely explode.

• 42:22Gary Brecka?

  You know, what, 18 vaccines in the first 18 months of life? A lot of which are vaccinating against statistically insignificant risk or almost nonexistent risk, hepatitis B, for example. Is there a review process for, excuse me, for these vaccines? Because the, the attack on the FDA, and I guess you to a lesser extent, is that, you know, you're going to kill millions of people because you're banning vaccines, which has not happened.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 42:51Gary Brecka?

  Which has not happened at all. I think you're, I mean, from my perspective, you're taking a very intelligent approach to say, hey, we can't have mandates for something where we don't have data, right? We can still make it available if you choose, if through the informed consent process, you make the decision to be vaccinated or have your child vaccinated. But we're not going to say, to get into public school, you are required to have X, Y, and Z. So where, where do, where does the FDA land? And where is the FDA going on its investigation of vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, which are highly controversial now?

• 43:31Speaker 00

  So we're going to return to a gold standard science threshold for approvals at the FDA. We're not going to be blindly rubber stamping mRNA COVID vaccines every year in perpetuity with no data. That's the path that we've been on.

• 43:47Gary Brecka?

  I like that.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  And it's a very different day today than it was back in 2020, when the vaccine was a good match for the circulating strain at the time. There was low natural immunity levels. We didn't understand a lot of what we know now. And we recognize that myocarditis is a real complication that is seen in young men and that some individuals' children have died from it. So we need all the information to be out there. And our promise has been that we're not going to Take away anybody's vaccines, but we are going to provide information so that people can make their decisions. We at the FDA have a simple job, and that is when companies

• 44:30Speaker 00

  present data, we decide whether or not that data supports the claims they want to make about their products. That's our job. It's pretty simple.

• 44:40Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  At the CDC, they decide what vaccines to recommend. And I know that there's an ongoing evaluation that is going on to, to, to look at that.

• 44:52Gary Brecka?

  And how in lockstep are you with the CDC?

• 44:56Speaker 00

  I mean, we really have different roles, but we do have a lot of conversations. And so, you know, we do an intensive review of the data, and sometimes we share the results of that directly. So for example, there is an mRNA flu shot. mRNA vaccine technology is being used for other things now. Our philosophy is, that's great. Let's see the data. And if something works, we will do what we do at the FDA, and that is approve it if the benefits outweigh the risks.

• 45:30Gary Brecka?

  Right. But it's going to be real gold standard science to say, we're not going to allow pressure, we're not going to allow, you know, corruption, we're not going to allow political lobbyists to determine how we come to a decision. We're going to make it based on gold standard science.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  People believe that the pharma industry thinks that they own the FDA, but they don't own the FDA. The FDA belongs to the American people.

• 45:59Gary Brecka?

  Wow, so good to hear you say that.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  We're going to keep it scientifically independent. It is not a fourth branch of government. It is within the executive branch, and we are going to have a series of policies that we plan to implement. The top policy of which is a return to independent, objective, gold standard science. So when the mRNA flu shot failed in its clinical trial in seniors just weeks ago, it was announced, guess what that means? We're not going to be approving it. So you can't have a drug that doesn't work. Get approved because of lobbyists and corporations. I have a charge from President Trump,

• 46:41Speaker 00

  and that is do what's right, go big, go bold, and don't worry about the corporations and the lobbyists. And that's what I'm gonna do.

• 46:49Gary Brecka?

  That's fantastic. So good to hear you say. So if I were looking down the lane of the FDA for the next three years, and areas where it's gonna widen, areas where it's gonna narrow. I mean, obviously, we need to widen the lanes for functional medicine-like

• 47:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:05Gary Brecka?

  treatments and modalities, lifestyle medicine, you know, which is things like dietary, exercise, those kinds of things. Peptides, for example, which have been used at scale and have been proven to be, you know, it's safe in the mass population. Where do you fall on some of these areas that I would consider them gray areas right now, where they're kind of being done and people are benefiting from it, but the FDA hasn't really taken a strong position, like peptides, for example, which we used in our, in our practice and with astounding results.

• 47:46Gary Brecka?

  Things like BBC 157 for tissue and wound repair, for healing and sealing the gut for people that had gut dysbiosis, Crohn's disease, diverticulitis, ulcerative colitis, these inflammatory bowel conditions that, you know, were not responsive to anything other than high doses of corticosteroids, which just bought you another problem down the road.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:07Gary Brecka?

  Where do you see some of the lanes potentially widening, if you can talk about it?

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 48:12Gary Brecka?

  Potentially widening for some of these therapies?

• 48:14Speaker 00

  So I would say in the, in the lane of cutting-edge new areas, we've got to talk about the microbiome, and we cannot use our old model of approving drugs for the microbiome. If somebody has

• 48:28Speaker 00

  A probiotic that has a reasonable safety profile.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  We've got to have a different amount of regulatory flexibility for something like that. Because the microbiome is a lining of a billion different bacteria that is in an equilibrium naturally in the body. And so, things alter that microbiome and things can help repair that microbiome. And so, we want to run a randomized trial for each molecule or component of some probiotic therapy. We're going to be spinning our wheels for a long time.

• 49:08Gary Brecka?

  Twenty years, yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  And so, we, the agency, and this is common of regulatory agencies, tend to fall behind and not be able to keep up with the times.

• 49:17Gary Brecka?

  I agree. We talked about that.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  The microbiome is the biggest frontier of medicine that we are not talking about, that we need to talk about. We know things mess up the microbiome and directly result in diseases. One of the biggest studies in modern medicine that has been ignored, and I think the, one of the most important studies, has been a recent study out of the Mayo Clinic that looked at kids who got antibiotics in the first two years of life, and then tracked them as to what diseases they developed later. Now, why would antibiotics potentially cause disease? Well, the theory is that it's, we know antibiotics alter the microbiome. It's almost like carpet bombing parts of the microbiome.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  And you get bacterial overgrowth, we don't know what to do with it, we know overgrowth is associated with inflammation. And so, here's, I just wrote down some of these study results. The kids that got antibiotics in the first two years of life, 20% higher rate of obesity.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  21% higher rate of learning disabilities. 32% higher risk of developing attention deficit disorder. 90% higher rate of asthma.

• 50:31Gary Brecka?

  90% higher.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  90%.

• 50:33Gary Brecka?

  Higher rates of asthma in kids that were given multiple antibiotic dosages.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Any antibiotic exposure in the first two years of life. And there was what we call a dose dependent relationship. The more courses of antibiotics a kid got, the greater the risk of obesity, learning disabilities, ADHD, asthma. Celiac had a 200, nearly 300% higher risk. And if a kid took antibiotics.

• 50:58Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 50:59Speaker 00

  Crohn's disease, nearly a 300. All these diseases are going up.

• 51:03Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  Crohn's disease was ultra rare a century ago.

• 51:06Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Right now, it's like.

• 51:08Gary Brecka?

  So is celiac. I mean, true celiac, you know, gluten allergy, gluten's been around forever. Now all of a sudden, everybody's allergic to gluten.

• 51:15Speaker 00

  So it's not, this is not the riddle of the Sphinx. This is a byproduct of an altered microbiome in an era where the microbiome is carpet bombed. It is altered with ultra-processed foods. It is perturbed in so many ways. Now, some of the things that perturbed the microbiome also save lives, like antibiotics, C-sections, other things. But half of antibiotics, at least, are unnecessary. That study after study shows that.

• 51:47Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 51:48Speaker 00

  And the guy who invented or discovered antibiotics, Dr. Fleming in 1928, he warned about its overuse and abuse and how this would be an evil and result in resistance. That's exactly what's going on.

• 52:04Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  So, so, and we've got to talk about the microbiome.

• 52:09Gary Brecka?

  Love that.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  And then on the, on the other lane, I would say, we want to see a cure or meaningful treatment, and we're laser focused on this. For type 1 diabetes, for certain types of cancer, for neurodegenerative disorders, for PTSD. I mean.

• 52:29Gary Brecka?

  And what are the promising frontiers for those kinds of diseases? Because chemotherapy, surgical excision, radiation haven't really advanced leaps and bounds in the last two decades.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  No, they haven't. I've been taking care of pancreatic cancer for a good part of my career. It's roughly got the same five-year survival as it did 30 years ago.

• 52:50Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  We're talking about small. But there is a new KRAS inhibitor molecule that is, for a subset of patients, appears to be miraculous. Appears to be. There is a new PD1 inhibitor that has resulted in rectal cancer tumors melting away and disappearing right in front of the eyes of the physician over serial checks, what we call a complete pathologic response. No chemo, no radiation, no surgery.

• 53:23Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  And so.

• 53:24Gary Brecka?

  How does the population get access to these?

• 53:27Speaker 00

  So they have to have a certain type of gene mutation, microsatellite instability. It might be 5% to 10% of individuals with a GI cancer that have this gene.

• 53:38Gary Brecka?

  Still, GI cancers are so prevalent and they're absolutely exploding right now. I mean, colorectal cancer is on a parabola right now.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  That's right. It's doubled in people under 55 in the last two decades. So we need new, meaningful treatments that make sense. We have to address root causes. With diabetes, there are some very promising new technology where islets are now infused and are not being rejected.

• 54:06Gary Brecka?

  Into the pancreas. Donor islets.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  Donor islets injected into a human with type 1 diabetes. And traditionally, the body rejects these islets, just like a foreign organ. And sometimes there's been protocols to try immunosuppression. Well, there's at least one potentially promising therapy where they have not seen. The immune rejection and the patients are not taking immunosuppression.

• 54:34Gary Brecka?

  Wow, that's a huge win. You know, I'm all about optimizing performance and lately I've been using the Ion weighted vest during my workouts and it's been a game changer. It isn't your average weighted vest. It's designed to fit like a second skin, activating your core, improving blood flow and even helping you with recovery while you train. What I love most is that the weight is perfectly distributed. It doesn't pull on your shoulders or throw off your alignment. Whether I'm doing strength training or cardio or just taking a walk, I'm burning more calories, building muscle and pushing my endurance even further. If you're serious about leveling up your training and unlocking your full potential, check out the Ion weighted vest at iongear.com.

• 55:15Gary Brecka?

  That's A I O N gear.com and you can use code ULTIMATE for 10% off and start training smarter today. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

• 55:25Speaker 00

  Look, so we have got to reach out to these companies, the scientists and the developers that are working on this stuff and say, look, send us whatever data you got. We want to be walking through this process with you. Don't worry about the the margins and the font size of your application. We want to partner with you. I personally will go to scientific reviewers at the FDA and ask them, are you seeing anything that looks amazing? Game changing, something that gives you chills up your spine because of what it could mean for a population of patients with a disability or a certain condition. And most of the time they say, no, there's nothing I'm seeing that's, you know, that dramatic, but sometimes they do say, look, there's this thing in animal studies.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  We're seeing this dramatic improvement and maybe it's got some promise. Well, those are the applications we want to put at the front of the line.

• 56:20Gary Brecka?

  Are you accelerating the process of the applications? You know, at the Maha Summit, you talked about a very specific case. I can't recall the specific case, but there was a, I think you were actually reading. About a. Yeah. And, and, and you, the FDA reached out to this company and said, hey, we'd like to fast track you. I mean, that's unheard of.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, a form of congenital deafness.

• 56:44Gary Brecka?

  Congenital deafness, that's what it was.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  So in the New England Journal, they report that about 12 kids got this gene therapy and three of them were able to get normal hearing.

• 56:54Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  And I think another seven got improvement in hearing.

• 56:58Gary Brecka?

  Hmm.

• 56:58Speaker 00

  Well, what are we waiting for? These kids are deaf, right? So we reached out to the company and within a matter of days,

• 57:04Gary Brecka?

  Hmm.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  we were able to issue them a national priority review voucher to get a decision out in weeks once they submit their data.

• 57:11Gary Brecka?

  And is this national priority review? Is this something new at the FDA? Is there like a, can I use this term? Fast track system now where we're, you know, companies with novel therapies that have some evidence based? And, you know, we talked about blood filtration, for example. Um, um, and non specifically in use for recess, therapeutic plasma exchange, seraf blood filtration and, and, and how, um, I certainly am a big believer in these just, just subtractive medicine of taking things out of the body that could be distracting its normal function. Heavy metals, you know, mold, mycotoxins, parasites, viruses,

• 57:50Gary Brecka?

  microplastics.

• 57:50Speaker 00

  Microplastics.

• 57:51Gary Brecka?

  You know, um, these things that are causing biological havoc. Right? Uh, because our immune system is spending all of its time protecting us from those, but not policing us. Right? And, and, and then there go the senescent cells and circulating tumor cells. And, and now you've got the genesis of, of, of chronic disease.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, immune fatigue.

• 58:10Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, immunofatigue. Yeah. Um, which, which, you know, I told you I was asked this question, you know, on a stage talk not too long ago about what is the one prevailing theory of aging that everyone would agree on? And there's lots of theories of aging and, um,

• 58:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:24Gary Brecka?

  Uh, and I don't purport to say that this is the one, but immunofatigue is one that, you know, a lot of leading MDs, PhDs, researchers would say, yes, that is a large category that we need to address. Like, how do we empower the immune system to do what it does best? Which is not just protect us, but also police us.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:46Gary Brecka?

  You know, to, to actually keep senescent cells from. Sticking around for too long, having cellular autophagy and, you know, go back to homeostasis, you know, regulating, you know, we call redox homeostasis, the balance between inflammation and oxidation, you know, that, and there's nothing more powerful than our God-given innate immune system.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  It's amazing.

• 59:11Gary Brecka?

  I mean, if you want to ask me, that's what got us out of the pandemic. But so, you know, where does the FDA fall on some of these things like that I would, maybe you call them gray areas, like, you know, peptides where you have mass numbers of prescriptions that have been written with very little adverse effects and, and, you know, large data to finding benefit. How do you address an industry like that and say, rather than sort of turn a blind eye and just kind of let it quietly do what it's going to do on its own, how do we actually train an eye on this and widen the lanes for certain things, narrow the lanes for other things?

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah. Well, we have to use some common sense. And the peptide world is a very large bucket. So we have to sort of review different groups and subgroups and ask ourselves, what is harmless, been out there for a long time and already has an established safety profile? What is equivalent to a drug in a current phase three clinical trial where we still don't know the results? On your question about, is this the first time we're doing a priority voucher review? It is the first time we're piloting a program to get a decision out in four to eight weeks or so.

• 1:00:30Gary Brecka?

  That's insane for the FDA, man. That's amazing.

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  I mean, they've had programs to get it down, you know, accelerated, breakthrough designated, there's all these terms that have been out there, expedited.

• 1:00:39Gary Brecka?

  It sounds great.

• 1:00:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, sounds good.

• 1:00:42Gary Brecka?

  I hired a permit expediter for my last construction project, took me three years.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, who doesn't like the word expedite?

• 1:00:48Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, we don't like that word.

• 1:00:49Speaker 00

  So, but we got to try new things. The

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  The goal of lowering drug prices is such a major goal that if we can lower R and D costs, get more drugs out faster and safer, then we can have more competition. We're lowering the barrier for generic versions of drugs, especially of the expensive biologic drugs. Those generic versions are called biosimilars. And it's been hell for those companies to come to market after a biologic drugs patent expires or market exclusivity expires. I mean, with Humira, I think it took five years.

• 1:01:33Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 1:01:35Speaker 00

  And the average time to develop biosimilars has been five to eight years. Well, we cut the R and D costs in half and we cut the time in half. And so we're going to see a lot more generic versions. We want to move more to more drugs to over the counter. Why do you need a prescription for naloxone?

• 1:01:55Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:01:56Speaker 00

  Right? What are we, who are we protecting?

• 1:01:58Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, who's going to abuse that?

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Who's going to abuse it? If there's no abuse potential, if it's safe, if it's something that people can figure out with, you know, it's, they can have a discussion with their doctor and decide, hey, this, you know, may benefit you. And they're not going to abuse it for some, for the creation of something else in society. And you don't need laboratory tests to monitor, say, your liver function when you start a drug. Then what are we doing?

• 1:02:31Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  What are we doing? So we want to get more drugs to over the counter.

• 1:02:34Gary Brecka?

  So that's, that's where you can widen some of these lanes.

• 1:02:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can. And also when a drug's over the counter, now it's got a price on the shelf of the pharmacy, right? Cause you're picking it up and now there's price competition.

• 1:02:46Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  It's no longer in a black box of the insurance company and the pharmacy benefit manager.

• 1:02:51Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:02:52Speaker 00

  So there's a lot to do.

• 1:02:53Gary Brecka?

  So there's so much to do. I think for folks that are in, in my industry, you know, we see, you know, when we, when we had our clinic, we had a large population of patients that were going outside the United States for a lot of treatments, you know, mainly stem cells, exosomes. So they're, they're having to go to third world countries. And some of these facilities are very, you know, they're, they're, they're US doctors there and they're, they're. Well-run facilities, but people are still going to Medellin, Tijuana, Panama, Costa Rica, and I'm not throwing shade at any of those countries, Nicaragua, to get therapies that

• 1:03:34Gary Brecka?

  are helping them regenerate their joints, that are giving them promise for neurodegenerative disorders, that are helping them repair tissues, amniotic stem cell injections for type 1 diabetes. And is there, in, let's call it the stem cell biologic exosome space, is there a view that we might be able to bring this back in under the FDA's purvey in a reasonable timeframe, so people can have access to safe, evidence-backed therapies that include some of these biologics like stem cells? Where do you see that lane widening?

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, we've got to modernize. And so if people are all leaving the United States for a therapy that has good data to support it, what are we doing? We're just, we're just blocking people from access to therapies that may have good data. If a therapy has good data, we'd like to see it, and we've got to get over these sort of prejudices that exist sometimes, not among the scientists at the FDA, but larger prejudices that the medical establishment has had.

• 1:04:45Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:04:46Speaker 00

  And I'm being honest, because I was a part of the medical establishment in all of its academic regalia, at all the top, you know, I've trained at a bunch of the top institutions, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown. And let's be honest, when we don't know what to do with some new therapy, we just downplay it and say, oh, we don't have a 10-year randomized controlled trial, therefore, you know, it's bad. No, that means you don't have a 10-year randomized controlled trial. It's a scientific unknown. Maybe there's other ways of learning.

• 1:05:19Gary Brecka?

  Big data, for example.

• 1:05:20Speaker 00

  Big data.

• 1:05:21Gary Brecka?

  We talked about parachutes. We've never done a randomized clinical trial on parachutes.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, where's the randomized trial on parachutes? I mean, you can see it in front of your eyes, that it's saving lives, right? I mean, who wants to be randomized to jump off a plane without a parachute?

• 1:05:32Gary Brecka?

  I want to see who signs up for that control group. I want to be in the control group.

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  I remember Gary at Johns Hopkins. And this is to the point that we need to listen to patients and realize that we can learn from patients. There was a patient with brain cancer, a certain type of incurable glioblastoma, multiforme, brain cancer at Johns Hopkins. And I didn't know the patient, but this case is well known. And the guy beat the odds and is a long-term survivor. You really rarely see a long-term survivor.

• 1:06:10Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, glioblastomas were terrible.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, terrible, right. And no one's really cured of it, but the recurrence rate is high. But this person is out 15-plus years. I remember at one point, now it's probably much more. And they would re-review this case in one of the conferences at Johns Hopkins as sort of a learning, teaching case. Now, what happened whereby that patient beat the odds? Well, it turns out that that patient had an infection after the tumor was resected. And that infection bed got the standard treatment that we do for an infected area. It was, the infection was relieved. In that case, they removed the skull plate,

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  evacuated the bacteria or the infected tumor resection bed, and then bring the patient back in another staged procedure to put the skull plate back on. Patient did fine from that. That's sort of a standard complication management strategy in surgery. Now, something happened. I don't know what it is, but we can learn from that case. Maybe the bacteria ate into the tentacles of the tumors. Maybe it activated an immune response.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  That fought that cancer even harder and longer than somebody who didn't have that infection. Maybe it was the evacuation, maybe it was some molecules or interleukins that were increased from the stress of the second and third operations. I don't know.

• 1:07:44Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  But we can't, those are data points that we can learn from.

• 1:07:47Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 00

  And when you talk about whether or not petroleum-based food dyes alter the behavior of children, yes, we can do a randomized control trial, and that's been done, but we can also listen to parents that say when we removed these petroleum-based food dyes, their aggressive abnormal behavior improved. And then a year later, when the kid got back into those artificial food dyes, we noticed their behavior regressed to that bad behavior. We can listen to parents and learn. That is data also.

• 1:08:19Gary Brecka?

  And also, you look at the risk of potential harm that comes from removing food dyes. What's the worst thing that could happen? Because nobody is dependent upon them. You know, this isn't an essential fatty acid or an essential amino acid. And you're like, well, let's just see if they can survive without these essentials. And then you have this catastrophic outcome. I mean, when the risk that is that it doesn't work, but it does no harm, those seem like viable risks, right? I mean, when the risk is that it doesn't work and it causes harm, I mean, that's where I would think the FDA needs to step in and say, because, you know, I have firsthand knowledge of clients of mine, and I'm not a physician, so I don't treat them,

• 1:09:04Gary Brecka?

  but I just help direct them to the people that can give them care, that have done, that have had late-stage cancers. One in particular is late-stage lung cancer that was inoperable because of the size of the tumor. And went to Cabo, Mexico with US physicians and got a dendritic cell vaccine. Actually, culture the tumor.

• 1:09:29Gary Brecka?

  Grew it in a lab, cultured their own natural killer cells, their dendritic cells, grew those in a lab, introduced these two, had the dendritic cell identify the cancer as a foreign antigen, it created an antibody, they reinfused that patient's own antibodies into their system and it ate the cancer like a termite. And I've watched this happen, be happy to give you the data. And I look at the risk of taking a patient's own natural killer cells out of their body, introducing them in vitro to cancer, creating this immune response, and then reinfusing those back into the body. The risk of rejection is obviously

• 1:10:10Gary Brecka?

  very low, it's their own natural killer cells. And seeing in multiple cases that this, you know, was a miracle for these patients. Those are the kinds of things I would love to see the FDA at least have an open eye to and say, look, we know that intra-articular stem cells have actually avoided joint replacements. We know that they've accelerated wound healing. We've actually accelerated the post-surgical timeframe to full recovery. And there's a promising frontier here, but whether it's pharma or medical dogma that's standing in the way of a lot of these technologies that are being widely used outside the United States, blood filtration technologies, biologic filters, plasma filtration, dendritic cell

• 1:10:55Gary Brecka?

  vaccine, natural killer cells, these, I've seen these therapies work in front of my own eyes for people that are going outside of the country and having them done. Are you saying that the FDA is open to looking at that data and helping potentially advance those therapies?

• 1:11:12Speaker 00

  We have to be. We have to, we have to use common sense. I mean, if somebody, you know, and this is the case of this PD-1 inhibitor where the rectal cancers have shrunk to nothing, no detectable, they've even resected the mucosal lining of where the tumor was, and they can't find a single cancer cell.

• 1:11:32Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  Now, that's, I guess you can call it a conventional therapy, PD-1, it's going through the process. But how do you look at that and say, you know what, there's a lot of people suffering with debilitating rectal cancer, surgery where you become incontinent, claustrophobia bags, I mean, very debilitating stuff. And there's this amazing therapy, but...

• 1:11:55Speaker 00

  And we see it just eliminate cancers that melt away. But you know what? Let's just give it the standard five years to run through the process. What are we protecting people from? Many of these therapies we know are safe. We have to get away from a paternalistic mindset.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  And we have to let people respect them and their judgment and their decisions. And you saw that sort of paternalism surface during the COVID years. Now, it's been there for a long time. When home pregnancy tests were technically feasible, the medical establishment blocked them. They didn't want them, right? Women can't handle this information.

• 1:12:41Gary Brecka?

  They can't handle it.

• 1:12:42Speaker 00

  We have to tell them, right?

• 1:12:45Gary Brecka?

  We gotta be there to catch them if they fall.

• 1:12:47Speaker 00

  Same thing with HIV testing. Same thing. You had, you could only get it done. You can only get your results by coming in and meeting with a physician. You couldn't just get, look up your results. Or, so when COVID hit, it was the same thing. We wanted COVID home testing. And the medical establishment blocked it. While people, they might not know how to use the information. They might, we have to tell them what precautions to take. So you see this medical paternalism rear its head up. Hormone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women.

• 1:13:21Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  Right? Well, you know, they should not take it because there is a risk that we believe exists, even though the data didn't really support it. And therefore, we don't think it's wise for them to take it. And therefore, we, a lost generation of 50 million women missed out on this incredible opportunity. And you can't really start it more than 10 years after the onset of menopause. Because the risk benefit ratio went.

• 1:13:46Gary Brecka?

  Right, very true.

• 1:13:48Speaker 00

  According to many doctors who do a lot of.

• 1:13:50Gary Brecka?

  We saw that too. Yeah, yeah. We saw late 60s women not have the same kind of massive turnaround.

• 1:13:56Speaker 00

  So we have to get away from this medical paternalism.

• 1:13:59Gary Brecka?

  I love that. I love that. So what are, what are the biggest headwinds that you face right now? Is it the? Medical establishment not necessarily being anti your agenda, but just being so dogmatic in their belief. Is it political opposition? Is it pharma and food not wanting to take their grips out of, you know, these agencies? What's the biggest headwind that you're facing at the chairman of the FDA?

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  Well, I think one of the cool things-

• 1:14:28Gary Brecka?

  If you're willing to say it.

• 1:14:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:14:31Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  I mean, I'm unfiltered and I'll tell you exactly-

• 1:14:35Gary Brecka?

  That's what I like about you.

• 1:14:36Speaker 00

  But it may not be a polished answer, but it's honest and unfiltered. So we are at an amazing time when people from all political persuasions are aligned on healthier food for kids. We want to see more cures and meaningful treatments for Americans faster and more safely delivered. And so we think we can deliver on those. And so there's a lot of tailwinds. The biggest headwind is it's hard to work in government just to get anything done.

• 1:15:09Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  10 people will tell you 15 reasons why you can't do it. And it could be, oh, there's this language and this regulation. And you realize the regulation was created by the agency itself. So these are like self-imposed policies. So I'll typically, you know, say, hey, let's socialize this reform around the agency. And then I might get feedback that says, well, this is not how we typically do things around here.

• 1:15:42Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. Marty, let me tell you how we do things around here. I know you're new to this. You're so full of hope. Right? But this isn't how it goes. I could see that. I mean, I mean, this is a big bloated bureaucratic machine. I mean, we've got 370 million people here and it's been dysfunctional for decades, you know. And I think it's commendable that you're coming in with, first of all, I commend the administration as a whole and the FDA and some of these other departments for the level of transparency. That I think the American people appreciate, no matter what side of the political aisle you're on. The second

• 1:16:21Gary Brecka?

  thing is I commend you for not being afraid to ask questions, to question the science, which is the foundation of science. You know, it was for so long that if you ask the question- You were ostracized just because you, you know, were outside of the Overton window.

• 1:16:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Gary Brecka?

  McCarthyism.

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  McCarthyism. Yeah. So, um, well, as, as, as you know, first of all, I'm, I'm actually more proud of you for doing a cold plunge than I am for you running the Food and Drug Administration.

• 1:16:55Gary Brecka?

  That's where you got my, I mean, that's where you earned my respect. I was like, oh, he's really gonna do it. You got right in there. Um, so Marty, I, I, you know, I wind down all my podcasts by asking all my guests the same question. You probably heard me ask this to Kyle, so you have a, a tip off. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

• 1:17:14Speaker 00

  Hmm. I would say, so I've spent a lot of time at the bedside of people that are dying, and they'll often share words of wisdom. And one thing that I think is profound is that none of us are going to be here in 100, 150 years. None of it. Our kids. And so what is our mark going to be? Are we going to be able to look back and say that we did something to contribute to a better world? And I think the, the big need right now in society with the echo chambers of social media, with the affirming news that people listen to, with the toxic

• 1:17:56Speaker 00

  polarization that exists, the need right now is for us to all show some humility and to listen to one another. And so I hope I can do that, and I hope I can be a good dad. And to me, that would be being the ultimate human.

• 1:18:12Gary Brecka?

  Well, you got my vote. Um, you know, I've, I've said many times, I've been very impressed by the reception this administration has shown, you know, influencers like myself and our, our industry as not, maybe not being so rogue and as, you know, deserving a voice and a seat at the table, you know, we're, we're both headed up to Washington after this and, and. The thought that I actually have a seat at the table in the White House to come and bring the consensus of folks that are that are on my platform, you know, and actually have a receptive ear, you know, at the level of the White House to me just shows that

• 1:18:53Gary Brecka?

  human beings at the top of these pyramids that really have the right intention, an authentic intention to make a change. So I really want to thank you for that on behalf of my entire audience. You know, I really want to thank you for that.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  Oh, thanks, Larry. And thank you for educating not just the public, which is what we badly need, but for willing to ask big questions. You are actually educating medical students, residents, doctors in practice, because we're hungry for the type of stuff that you're an expert in. And so you're doing an amazing service out there. And I've been learning from you. Wow. So thank you, Gary.

• 1:19:32Gary Brecka?

  Thank you so much, Marty. I hope you'll be back on the Ultimate Human Podcast.

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  Would love to.

• 1:19:36Gary Brecka?

  And until next time, that's just science.