Fraud Friday: The Liar in Literature w/ Atsuko Okatsuka

Comedian Atsuko Okatsuka joins the show to discuss how Dan Mallory, the author of the best-selling novel “The Woman in the Window,” took many of the plot points from deception and fraud in his own life of publishing. Plus, Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of Theranos, was sentenced to more than 11 years in prison. Stay schemin’! (Originally Released 12/05/2022) Laci’s book is out now! Order “Scam Goddess: Lessons from a Life of Cons, Grifts and Schemes" here: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/laci-mosley/scam-goddess/9780762484652/?lens=running-press Follow on Instagram: Scam Goddess Pod: @scamgoddesspod Laci Mosley: @divalaci Atsuko Okatsuka: @atsukocomedy Research by Kaelyn Brandt. SOURCES: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/02/11/a-suspense-novelists-trail-of-deceptions https://www.nj.com/news/2022/05/nj-man-stole-150k-in-10-state-unemployment-fraud-feds-say.html https://www.nj.com/news/2022/11/unemployment-scammer-who-stole-400k-bragged-on-instagram-pleads-guilty.html https://www.thecut.com/2019/02/the-best-character-in-the-dan-mallory-scammer-story.html https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47144368

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:20Speaker 01

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• 2:01Laci Mosley?

  West Pop In Congregation, it's your girl Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays, where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess Vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the paywall, and as always, stay schemin'.

• 2:42Laci Mosley?

  West Pop In Congregation, it's your girl Lacey Mosley. Welcome back to another installment of Time Magazine's Top 10 Podcasts of 2022, Scam Goddess. I'm sorry, I had to say it because I was just freaking the fuck out when I saw that. Thank you guys for listening and telling your friends and playing it in the other room while your baby asleep, so I can get extra streams. I appreciate every scam, anything that we can do. But I really love you all, and I really am very excited about that. But I'm even more excited, yes, I'm even more what, yes, I already gave it away, I'm so sorry, y'all. But y'all know I'm thrilled, and I really, truly am thrilled to have today's guest,

• 3:21Laci Mosley?

  because I met this person online. I met this person online and somehow ended up at their house.

• 3:32Laci Mosley?

  Okay, having delicious food and drinks, and I was like, see, I hate a latte for taking online Twitter from us, because this is how I end up in people's houses. But today, we have a comedian and fashion icon, truly amazing stand-up comedian, writer, actress. During the pandemic, she and her beautiful grandmother had everybody dropping their ass on social with the drop challenge, which was hilarious, and so many people have done it, iconic. Now she has her first stand-up special entitled "The Intruder", premiering on HBO December 10th.

• 4:08Laci Mosley?

  Oh, I love that. That's like how I intrude her house. Yes, I wasn't invited, though. If you want to see her live hit comedy shows in Los Angeles, go to her website, and that is at otzko comedy dot com for dates, get into it, see her lives, get these fits in person with your eyeballs. Congregate, please, welcome Otzko Okatsuka.

• 4:29Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 4:30Laci Mosley?

  Woo.

• 4:31Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 4:32Laci Mosley?

  That might have been the longest intro I've ever done. I'm so sorry, but we gotta get these, these plugs. You got a lot of shit coming out.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  That was so gorgeous. You made me feel so special.

• 4:42Laci Mosley?

  You are. You truly are.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Oh, and that's why you are always invited to my house.

• 4:48Laci Mosley?

  Your house is cute. I had a good time over there, a great time. Oh my goodness, how you doing?

• 4:54Speaker 04

  I'm good. You know, you saying all of that made me think God, you know, that is sad that Twitter is crumbling because that is how maybe we were gonna be one of the last people that met there that got to, you know, meet in real life out of there, you know?

• 5:09Laci Mosley?

  I like that. That's a positive approach. That's a glass half full. You're like, but we met each other.

• 5:14Speaker 04

  Mm hmm. But I was saying, maybe we'll be the last people to do that because

• 5:17Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 5:18Speaker 04

  It's no longer. I mean, you know, it's still there, but it's a, it's a scary sight to look at.

• 5:25Laci Mosley?

  It is. It already was before, but somehow scarier now.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  I know. I know. I was like Halloween passed and I'm still getting spooked, you know? Real life is scarier, I always find.

• 5:37Laci Mosley?

  Real life is, is pretty damn scary. And then also Twitter is the place where they're like, hey, this is all the terrible stuff that's happening right now.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  For sure, for sure. And then you, so you bring it into your home, into your brain, into your heart.

• 5:50Laci Mosley?

  Yo, into your heart, bro. And it's so weird because you'll be watching like a video of like a, a baby chimpanzee and then it'll be like, World War Three is happening. Are you like, what?

• 6:00Speaker 04

  I know, I know. And even like on other sites, it's not safe, you know, like I, I literally, I don't know how I came upon this because I don't want kids and I don't really look at kids. I don't think about them, but I stumbled upon a YouTube video of a baby taking her, its first steps. Okay, a video of a baby taking its first steps. Four hundred and fifty-three dislikes.

• 6:24Laci Mosley?

  What? Oh, okay. Are you hating on the baby? The baby's just got here. You don't even know the baby.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  Wow. Yeah, I'm like, what what could the baby have done better? Like, walked better, or did you think it was not cute?

• 6:38Laci Mosley?

  Right, these were your your first steps were better? Let us see your first steps, because you know every damn thing. Like, what? People are mean spirited. How you gonna hate on a baby walking? Baby ain't do nothing to you.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, four hundred and fifty-three dislikes. I was like, oh, wow. I mean, I thought it was kind of funny. It it was so ridiculous. It made me laugh, because I was like, wow, like, people just are out here hating on two-month-olds.

• 7:01Laci Mosley?

  Right, like, that, you know what? But that should give us all, I guess, a little respite in that. People gonna be mad, and there's nothing you can do about it. Because if you, four hundred and fifty-three people is also a significant number of haters on a baby.

• 7:14Speaker 04

  It is.

• 7:14Laci Mosley?

  Too many.

• 7:15Speaker 04

  You don't even know the baby's name. The baby can't talk. The baby hasn't even had its first thought yet. What you're doing is making sure that the mom sees it, you know? Because the mom is the one that.

• 7:25Laci Mosley?

  Oh, wow. That's sick. You're right. Because the baby's not gonna see the hate until it gets older. But the mom will see the hate immediately.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  And you know what happens? Some, the baby will get older, and what they'll end up doing is maybe suing the mom for putting.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  That's what the Nirvana baby, that's what happened to the, you know, the baby that's on the cover of like, a Nirvana CD or something?

• 7:47Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, the very, very classic Nirvana cover. It's like on every T-shirt now and stuff. Did the baby win, though? I feel like the baby didn't win.

• 7:55Speaker 04

  I don't know, but I love that we still don't know the baby's name. It's still, to us, the baby.

• 8:00Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, will always be the baby. Will always be the baby. That's the reason to sue right there. You go everywhere, they're just like, yeah, oh, you the baby, right?

• 8:09Speaker 04

  He's like, no, that's the rapper.

• 8:13Laci Mosley?

  The very sad failing rapper, which is getting exactly what he deserves for being awful. Now he gotta sell two-for-one BOGO tickets to his concerts. I heard that he was at the Cheesecake Factory trying to give away tickets for free. And people were like, no, thank you.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  What? Oh, my gosh, that's so, oh, man. That is dwindling.

• 8:33Laci Mosley?

  Imagine if you see like a scalper outside who's like, I got these tickets to the baby concert. And then you're like, wait, are you the baby?

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. You're, wait, hold on. I thought you had an assistant, somebody.

• 8:45Laci Mosley?

  Don't you need to be onstage right now? They said the concert started.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  I do appreciate the relatability, you know? You never see a star at Cheesecake Factory selling their own tickets.

• 8:56Laci Mosley?

  Giving them away, no less.

• 8:57Speaker 04

  Oh, giving them, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Wow.

• 9:00Laci Mosley?

  Down bad. I mean, it's what she deserves. So, here we go. And also update, the baby did lose that lawsuit. The baby's lawsuit was dismissed.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  Okay, got it. Okay.

• 9:10Laci Mosley?

  Sorry, baby. You didn't win either. You and the YouTube baby are down bad, but good luck to y'all. We always ask though, I've gone on this podcast, what's your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them? Have you ever been scammed? Have you ever run any scams that have passed the statute of limitations? Anything?

• 9:25Speaker 04

  I've only sort of been like on the outskirts of them. You know, people that I was dating or, you know, someone I was dating's like aunt got scammed kind of thing. But I've never been scammed.

• 9:41Laci Mosley?

  I love that for you. Has anyone ever tried? Or you just, no one's even ever approached you with a good spicy scam?

• 9:48Speaker 04

  I've gotten an email and it was over that one boyfriend that I was just talking about. Saying, you know, it was just for asking for money. He had traveled, he, he had gone to like Montenegro or something anyway. And so he was gone. And so it was possible that he needed money suddenly, you know, and that he did get kidnapped and was put in the back of a car.

• 10:08Laci Mosley?

  Kidnapped?

• 10:10Speaker 04

  That was the email from him.

• 10:11Laci Mosley?

  Oh, from him.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:14Laci Mosley?

  So he said, I'm kidnapped, but they did give me email and cellphone access.

• 10:19Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes. They, they parked by a Starbucks when, you know, but I was still in the trunk. Uh, so that I could connect to wifi and I just need that money. That's so that they would let me go. You know, I'm still in the trunk right now. Hurry.

• 10:34Laci Mosley?

  Right now, currently in the trunk. Hello? You hear that? That's the trunk. Wait. So was this a current boyfriend or this was an ex at the time?

• 10:42Speaker 04

  This is an ex, yeah, at the time, maybe eight years ago or something, yeah. So I got an email from him and then, so the scammer was smart enough to be like, okay, this is his girlfriend. And then which one's his mom, so he, they knew to email the mom too, and the mom fell for it, yeah.

• 10:59Laci Mosley?

  Damn, so they found people who cared about him in his contacts and then were like,

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Right.

• 11:05Laci Mosley?

  Okay, well, I mean, I hate that his mom fell for it, but that's a good mom. She was trying to help out her son out the trunk, uh, at Starbucks in Montenegro.

• 11:16Laci Mosley?

  No. But it's also funny because if someone did run that kind of scam on me, I would feel some type of way if everybody was like, I'll pass. Like, nobody's gonna try to get me out the trunk.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  A hundred percent, that's true, you know, and I did, I did sort of like go down a rabbit hole of trying to figure out if he is okay. He wasn't answering, and to be honest, this was like a very toxic boyfriend. And he was always like cheating on me and stuff, so I did wonder like, did the scammer have a hard time figuring out which one his girlfriend was? Just reading emails, you know what I mean? I was like, I bet all these other girls got emails too, asking for money.

• 11:50Laci Mosley?

  All the side pieces, all the, yeah, and I bet you none of them would give it. Sounds like he wasn't a great dude, I feel like they would have left him in the trunk.

• 11:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, that's why I was like, this is a scam, you know, in my heart, I was like, well, if he needs help, he needs help, but you know, he did just see that other girl like a month ago.

• 12:09Laci Mosley?

  He was just cheating on me the other day, so.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  I know, it was very complex, and the mom was like, I gave the money, come over, I need, you're all I wanna see right now. Just someone close to him, and so I went and comforted her, and then I was like, you also need to halt that money if you can, you know? And it was too late, I think it was like eight thousand dollars.

• 12:29Laci Mosley?

  Oh my god, eight thousand dollars, oh, I definitely would have left him in the trunk, I've been like, that is, I am so sorry. They got AC, do they got AC in the trunk? I hope so, it'd be hot in Montenegro, good luck.

• 12:41Speaker 04

  Lacey, you know there's no AC, yeah, I know, I knew there was no AC, and I, I didn't even lift a finger.

• 12:49Laci Mosley?

  You were like, I get that he wrote it in the email that there was no way to see it. And I was like, perfect, even better.

• 12:56Laci Mosley?

  But you're sweet to go see the mom, but $8,000? Eight Gs, bro? And you're not even gonna give me a little photo with him in today's newspaper or something?

• 13:05Speaker 04

  No, totally. And the thing about scams is like you have got, really have to know your loved ones like voice, because you read an email, they can't write, that's the one thing you have is that scammers can't write in that personality. You know what I mean? They always write in their own way.

• 13:21Laci Mosley?

  Some can, but

• 13:22Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 13:23Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but mostly there's typos and it never sounds like the person, but some people, I've had some scammers write in my voice.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  No, I've seen that. I saw that, but I was still like, you made her sound lamer. You know what I mean? Cause I saw the screenshots that you posted, which is such a bummer that that happened. But it's true. If it's like fans or something, they might not know how you DM, you know, how you text.

• 13:46Laci Mosley?

  Right. Cause I never had my DMs open, so there was really no way to know, but that's, that's something, we'll get to Jada. Um, I'll, I'll let you guys know when we'll be getting to Jada very soon.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  Okay, no worries, no worries. It just came up.

• 13:58Laci Mosley?

  No, it just came up. We just talked about it, but yeah, that's just a little tease. Yes, but a mess. But guys, we're gonna take a quick break for some non-scam advertisements. We'll be right back with my, well, one of my favorite parts of the show, what's hot and fraud?

• 14:12Speaker 05

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 14:23Speaker 06

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• 14:39Speaker 05

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:43Speaker 01

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• 15:26Speaker 01

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• 16:16Laci Mosley?

  And we're back. And it's time for What's Hot and Fraud. This is where we warn our listeners about popping scams and the zeitgeist. And more often than not, we get a letter from you guys, as always. Snitch on your friends, your family, and your enemies at [email protected]. Just make sure the scam is retired, because we don't want a what? Yes. Fuck up your bag. Amen. I need a fake name for this person. We don't care about gender.

• 16:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. Miriam.

• 16:40Laci Mosley?

  Miriam. Oh, Miriam definitely is a librarian.

• 16:44Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes, yes. And just still has a lot of downtime. Cause you know libraries these days, people are just like, I got my Kindle. So yeah, Miriam's got time.

• 16:55Laci Mosley?

  Which is wild, cause the books be free at the library and online. You can get online books for free if you get a library card. Y'all get back into the library. But yeah, you're right. Miriam has a lot of downtime. She's always playing Sudoku. She knows everybody who comes in and out of the library by a first name basis at least. And stuff about their kids. I love Miriam. So Miriam says, "In my midwestern city, there's a scammer who has been scamming for years and getting more brazen. He's a handyman and usually preys on single women or lesbian couples. It seems like he's afraid that men might kick his ass. So he'll give a very low price for a project, but tell you that he'll need a deposit for materials very soon because he's super busy and won't have time for your project if you don't pay him and get on his schedule.

• 17:37Laci Mosley?

  So you pay him half up front for materials, et cetera, and then he goes." Wow, it's often a fence. "And he makes off with about twenty-five hundred dollars that you paid by Venmo. Before I knew this, I hired him to fix my gutters and tear down an old wooden garage. My boyfriend had to harass him and hold his hand and help him get it done. Months later, we discussed it and he only did about seventy-five percent of the work before my boyfriend gave up and decided that it wasn't good enough." So I have to pause here because I think it's so funny that this man is scamming, you know, women because stereotypically, oh, women don't know how to do any handiwork or whatever.

• 18:18Laci Mosley?

  So he's scamming them, but he didn't realize that she had a boyfriend.

• 18:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, that like people have loved ones around them and maybe like a neighbor, you know what I mean?

• 18:31Laci Mosley?

  He was like, "Oh, somebody love you? Damn. Okay, I guess I'll do a little bit of the work then. Shit, alright, I'm coming." Uh, let me go to Home Depot for, I thought you already did that. Uh, yeah, I'ma go for real this time.

• 18:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's like while at the job Googling like how to put up gutter, you know? He's like how to, what to put next, you know what I mean? Yeah.

• 18:51Laci Mosley?

  Like handyman, why, why are you on YouTube right now on the ladder? Don't, don't worry about all that sweetheart, you just go back inside.

• 18:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm gonna go on lunch one more time really quick, you know?

• 19:00Laci Mosley?

  Right. What's your wifi passcode?

• 19:03Speaker 04

  He's like, fuck, I have to, oh, I have to learn the skill. Damn, I didn't think about a boyfriend.

• 19:09Laci Mosley?

  Right. I feel like he has like a handyman survey and it's like, oh, how big is your fence? What are the proportions? Do you have a boyfriend? Why is that on the list?

• 19:18Speaker 04

  I know, yeah. Or do you have a girlfriend? And I'll only come over if you have a girlfriend.

• 19:24Laci Mosley?

  Right. Is there anybody, uh, who I would think is strong, who loves you nearby? Just answer that. That's just question number four. Don't worry about it. That's it.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  By the way, before, when I said Miriam has a lot of time on her hands, I, I thought we were describing the scammer. And so I take it back.

• 19:40Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, no, I was describing the name of just like a Miriam, you know? That's just where I think that they are.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:47Laci Mosley?

  So, uh, Miriam continues and says that we know at least seven women and non-binary people who were assigned female at birth, who he scams. And when he contacts or he contracts with men, he does some of the work, but is so slow and the work is so poor that they end up calling it done, then get, rather than getting what they actually supposed to. So he does take on men and he will show up. For the men, but he's like hammering one nail at a time, taking several lunch breaks, like you said. Like this man is always on lunch and you know, just hanging out at your house, probably being annoying. And so you're tired of having somebody at your house, so you just let him leave.

• 20:27Speaker 04

  Oh, my God. Yeah, it's just a case of like being really slow. You know, which is like, it's easy to catch a person like that, though. A, a person who's just snoozing, you know what I mean? It's not a well-thought-out scam.

• 20:41Laci Mosley?

  I mean, it's been working for several years, so I guess it must be doing something, right? And also I love that it's just working very slowly. They're like, he's been unwrapping the plastic on that. For three hours.

• 20:55Speaker 04

  That's how I tutored kids, by the way, cuz I I guess I kinda ran a scam in that like, you know, I with a name like Otsko Okatsuka, when I needed money, like in my twenties, I would just put up flyers at pediatricians offices saying, do you need a tutor? And I would get calls because my name, Otsko Okatsuka, you know, I didn't I didn't put my resume on there. It's, you know, you you should have.

• 21:20Laci Mosley?

  Your name was the resume.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Yes, and that's on them. That's on them to not check. Cuz like I didn't know geometry, but that's what I was teaching, for example, to a bunch of students, where I would just kinda like read up on it before I showed up, or while they're doing a math problem, I'm looking up the answer.

• 21:35Laci Mosley?

  You're Googling it, like Googling the Pythagorean theorem?

• 21:39Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:39Laci Mosley?

  What is shapes? She's been online a lot, asking about shapes.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  Yes, so this is what it reminds me of. I was doing that, where I was like, okay, trying to, just one step ahead of my client.

• 21:51Laci Mosley?

  That's a perfect scam too, because one, you set it up great. You put it at a pediatrician, so you know, people who have children are gonna be in and out, all over. Also, like, a doctor's office, that feels very official. Like, I wonder if they even thought, like, the pediatrician, like, recommended you.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Yes, it it feels, exactly, it feels like I have an endorsement, you know, from Henry Mayo Clinic. And, uh, and, you know, I was living in the suburbs, so, you know, I felt wronged all the time anyway, in Santa Clarita, so I was like, you know, I need some money. I'm gonna see what happens, and they didn't check. That's their own thing.

• 22:27Laci Mosley?

  And that's the great thing about tutoring, is you can get away with that for a long time, cuz it's like, well, don't nobody in this room know shapes. Yeah, I don't know geometry either, so how you gonna tell me I don't?

• 22:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz none of us do, but, you know, I have my face.

• 22:41Laci Mosley?

  Hey, Otsko, can we talk? Um, some of me and the other wine moms who hired you from the Mayo Clinic, we've noticed our kids' grades are going down.

• 22:51Speaker 04

  And I'm like, you know what? It's probably because they're not applying themselves.

• 22:55Laci Mosley?

  I love it. Like, they're just dumb. Like, I did my best. My name is Otsko. You know I'm the best. At the shapes, ain't nobody shaping shapes like I do. Your kids are stupid. I'm I tried my best, but I will need my money for this, uh, last hour.

• 23:09Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly. Meanwhile, I dropped out of undergrad, yeah.

• 23:14Laci Mosley?

  Listen, that's an excellent scam. That's that's perfection. I love how you're like, I don't, I've never seen any really. Or just the the one about the ex-boyfriend in the trunk, but turns out he was running a hole.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  I forgot about that. Yeah, well, because this man reminded me of myself. And, you know, so if I know any better, maybe one day he'll become a comedian too.

• 23:35Laci Mosley?

  Right, because he sounds hilarious. It feels like that might be his calling. So he's also scamming people on Facebook Marketplace, selling them broken tools and then blocking them. This scammer is very charming and beloved and acts contrite when he's called out, but he's been doing this for a few years. And it scams about twelve thousand dollars that we know about.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Damn.

• 23:55Laci Mosley?

  So some of which his mother paid people back for. Damn, you got your mama paying back? That's just like the ex. He sounded just like a, is this your ex-boyfriend?

• 24:03Speaker 04

  That's what I was gonna say. Twelve grand, that covers about a part of the Montenegro scam, so.

• 24:08Laci Mosley?

  Right. So the mother covered about twelve grand that he owed a person. Oh, so this is sad. We'll put a little warning here, but he owed uh someone who unfortunately took their own life. And the community got together, and uh this is Miriam writing. She says, the community is a lot of leftists and anarchists and prison abolitionists. So they're reluctant to get law enforcement involved and tried to have an intervention last year, and that's how his mom ended up paying some of his debt.

• 24:34Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 24:34Laci Mosley?

  And I love that all these lovely people were like, we don't want to call the cops. That's not the right. Let's go to his mama's house, y'all. Who's gonna bring snacks? I'll bring snacks. You bring the, yeah, you bring the juice. Okay, y'all got paper plates? Okay, great. We'll have a look in. Hey Stan, it's us, the community.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  I love that. Community. This is a great community. Oh, my gosh. Y'all are exemplary of how society should be more like, you know?

• 25:02Laci Mosley?

  Right.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  That's pretty, that's, they like Beauty and the Beast did it. Well, actually, that was a bad community. That was not a nice community.

• 25:09Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, that was, that was a wild ass community, but.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Judgy, yeah.

• 25:13Laci Mosley?

  But they did get together and and sat him down and were like.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:16Laci Mosley?

  Everybody's like reading letters, like shaking and crying, Stan.

• 25:20Speaker 04

  They did it.

• 25:20Laci Mosley?

  Well, you said you was gonna fix my gutters. And you found out that I didn't have a boyfriend and sped away with my money. That hurt me.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  They night stalkered it. A community came and actually stopped him first.

• 25:34Laci Mosley?

  Yes.

• 25:34Speaker 04

  Before the cops.

• 25:35Laci Mosley?

  Which, I mean, how often do the cops really solve crime? Look it up. It's low. Okay?

• 25:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:41Laci Mosley?

  And they don't prevent it.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  Yes, I'm glad these people stopped Stan or didn't stop, but like the, I love the intervention aspect. That's so much energy from a community to, you know what I mean? Instead of like beating him up, they were like, look, you need help and we need the money back. And the mom was involved.

• 25:58Laci Mosley?

  And Stan's in denial. He's like, I can quit anytime I want. I can stop scamming anytime I want. Y'all don't know me. Y'all don't know my life.

• 26:05Speaker 04

  They're like, Stan, you, you suck at what you do. Okay? He's like, I've always wanted to be a fixer-upper. You suck. Okay? Look, you're not good at your job. Just.

• 26:15Laci Mosley?

  You're not handy. You, okay, you got the man part, but you don't have the handy part and that's essential.

• 26:22Speaker 04

  And that's okay, you know? We, and then maybe someone like offered up a job, you know, in the, the community.

• 26:28Laci Mosley?

  Right. They're like, we still love you, Stan. You have a place in this community. I love that. That's just such a fun thing to do. And it's, you know, not punitive, but honestly, I, it didn't work. Miriam said, he kept scamming and didn't pay his mom back.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 26:45Laci Mosley?

  To be honest, he'll probably end up either being in small claims court or he's gonna end up getting his ass kicked every time he shows his face until he has to leave town. Which is eventually what happens when you piss off a community that doesn't like to call the cops. So you called the, I'd go, you said like, they, look, they tried. They tried the community intervention. They tried to do the healthy, holistic, you know, the right thing. And then that didn't work. So they were like, all right, well, y'all get the pitchforks and shit because now we gonna have to beat Stan's ass.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah. Too much grace. They've already shown him so much forgiveness.

• 27:20Laci Mosley?

  But I love that they have shown him grace, but they're also like, she didn't say, uh, they go, we might have to beat his ass. She said he go get his ass beat every time he shows his face until he has to leave town. So she said, no, we're gonna continue beating his ass until he moves. We're gonna relocate him through these hands.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  He should move, Stan, move and pick up, you know, oils, like it was looking good for, in the story earlier, I had hope. Okay, I had hope Miriam was gonna be like, look, there's an opening at the library where I work at. You know, you can come stock books there.

• 27:50Laci Mosley?

  Right, and do it as slow as you want. Nobody will care how fast you put the books back in the Dewey Decimal System. Nobody gives a fuck. The Dewey's supposed to be slow, you can do it as slow as you want. And make a honest living.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm, yes, he had his chances, oh my god.

• 28:05Laci Mosley?

  Stan like that bass money.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  Kick him out.

• 28:07Laci Mosley?

  I feel for the mom, she didn't get the money back. Her son is trifling and now he's a pariah of the community. She probably can't even go to Bunko Night without people being like, oh god, that's Stan's mom. Who invited her?

• 28:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh my god, oh, that's disrespectful. She should kick him out, mom should kick him out.

• 28:27Laci Mosley?

  Miriam, I'm sorry that happened to you, but at least you got seventy-five percent of your work done because, uh, someone with a penis showed up and Stan was.

• 28:35Laci Mosley?

  He was like, a penis have her, I'll get my tools, damn it.

• 28:40Speaker 04

  Yes, and I hope the work's by now, right, done? If not.

• 28:45Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, but someone else, I hope, someone who's actually got hands for handiness. But if not, you know, it's something funny to me just thinking that Stan can't go anywhere. I hope he's like in a Walgreens and then people just jump on him and it's like a cartoon fight, like where he's in a cloud of smoke and you just see like Stan's leg and his hand and some stars, like they're just pummeling him. That's what I want for Stan, cuz Stan, you ain't right, people were giving you a lot of grace.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, totally, yeah, that's a good ad for defund the police, that, and what you just described, the cloud, this, you know, of his hands coming out.

• 29:17Laci Mosley?

  Yes, exactly, like, we're not gonna rough him up too bad, but just enough that he starts getting fatigued with the fact that he can't pump gas without people pumping them hands, them fists.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they're like, and this works too, you know.

• 29:28Laci Mosley?

  Right, and I imagine him at Chevron, and they do like, finish letting him pump his gas, like they put their little auto pump thing on so that his car, his tank's getting filled up, but while it's getting filled up, he's being pummeled.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  You know, I always say the first line of defense for like someone you really wanna like change is Zumba Moms. Zumba Moms will really scare a person into changing, I feel like.

• 29:48Laci Mosley?

  Yep, they're fit and they got stamina.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  They got fit, they got stamina, they got synchronicity, you know?

• 29:54Laci Mosley?

  Yep, they're punching you to like Mr. Worldwide song.

• 29:58Speaker 04

  Uh huh, yeah, they're always on time, you know, and they're territorial.

• 30:02Laci Mosley?

  They're like uno, dos, tres, wow, dum, dum, dum, but it's punches, they're all punching, like in sync.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  Yes, have you ever been, if you were chased like that, you would, you would scream, you would run so fast. People in sync just being like, ooh, ooh.

• 30:18Laci Mosley?

  I know you want me, I know I want you. I'm like, get him, girl.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  Dolly, dolly.

• 30:23Laci Mosley?

  Dolly, dolly.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 30:28Laci Mosley?

  And it's just the most on beat kicks.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, and then corner him, and then if that doesn't work, you bring in your second line of defense, comedians. Who have nothing to lose.

• 30:37Laci Mosley?

  We the second line?

• 30:38Speaker 04

  What?

• 30:39Laci Mosley?

  I was like, we the second line of defense?

• 30:40Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, with our own microphones, we drag it in, you know, in their face, just try out jokes, you know what I mean?

• 30:47Laci Mosley?

  Oh, yeah, that's harmful. Trying out jokes on someone who's not willing and didn't sign up for it, that's pain.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:54Laci Mosley?

  We would definitely get him to move.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  He would voluntarily move.

• 30:57Laci Mosley?

  We gotta send our strongest hacks. We gotta send our strongest like nineteen ninety six, but they, they still doing those jokes in twenty twenty two.

• 31:05Speaker 04

  A hundred percent, and think it's really funny, and so they're doing it right in your face.

• 31:09Laci Mosley?

  We're gonna bitches be shopping you to death, bro.

• 31:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've thought of this, and if that doesn't work, the last line of defense would be you bring in the people who are brave enough to go on that show naked and afraid.

• 31:20Laci Mosley?

  Oh, those are wild motherfuckers.

• 31:22Speaker 04

  That's the last intervention, yeah, bring them as they were on the show, naked.

• 31:27Laci Mosley?

  They're not afraid no more, they still naked, but they are unafraid.

• 31:30Speaker 04

  They are unafraid. Do you know what that blank stare could do to a person? You know, bring them out, still sunburnt, fresh off the show, you know what I mean? People who volunteered to go to the middle of nowhere, that's scary people, you know what I mean? For free, that show doesn't pay, for free.

• 31:45Laci Mosley?

  It's like, why are you trying to punish yourself that much? Did you kill somebody and you gotta take it to the grave? So you're like, I gotta punish myself somehow, I'm gonna go on Naked and Afraid, like, cause yeah. Everybody who signs up, they should have like a first line where they're like, "Hey, we have it pre-interview and it's just, are you okay?"

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they're just like, "Lacey, I, I grew up in Santa Clarita. I need this," or whatever.

• 32:11Laci Mosley?

  Like, "My life is too good."

• 32:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:14Laci Mosley?

  "I've never had to worry about money. I have a thick, full head of hair. I'm a tall man. I need punishment."

• 32:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, so you mentioned those people, you know, that, that would be the last line of defense for me. I've thought about this.

• 32:26Laci Mosley?

  I think this is a solid strategy. We would definitely get Stan packed the fuck up out of here and on to his next town where he'll continue to be the least handy of handyman.

• 32:37Laci Mosley?

  We're gonna take a break for some non-scam advertisements and we'll be back with historic Hood Weeks.

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• 33:30Speaker 05

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• 35:15Laci Mosley?

  And we're back. It's time for Historic Hoodwicks. This is where I will regale Asko the famous con, caper, group of criminals. We'll see if we like them, we'll see if we hate them. Today, we're talking about Dan Mallory, his 2018 bestseller, "The Woman in the Window." Brief content warming in here, there's a brief mention of someone taking their life and some medical trauma. Much of this story was researched from Ian Parker's New York investigation, "A Suspense Novelst Deceptions." Okay, how your old title gonna be better than the title of the man's book?

• 35:49Speaker 04

  I know.

• 35:50Laci Mosley?

  Because... Dan Mallory's book, his 2018 bestseller is called The Woman in the Window.

• 35:57Speaker 04

  Those titles always irk me that are like, the man who was in the car, the man behind the door. And then there was one called like, The Killer's Cousin's Wife, or something like that.

• 36:09Laci Mosley?

  Damn, that's too many, uh, steps away from the killer.

• 36:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's like-

• 36:12Laci Mosley?

  We're doing six degrees of Kevin Bacon of the killer.

• 36:15Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah, where it's like, let's just make it general, you know? Who is she? Who is she? Who, who the fuck cares? She's a woman, she's just in the window. Does she have a name? No, she just stands there.

• 36:27Laci Mosley?

  She's a woman, in the window, getting in the way. You know, how women do. And, and, oh, this is the, uh, actual book cover. And we don't even get to see the woman, that's how inconsequential she is. It's like, oh. It's the title, we'll post it on the Instagram, but it's the title, and then it's like blinds. It looks like there's like an invisible finger holding the blinds down, like that someone's peeking through. But there's no woman.

• 36:52Speaker 04

  Right, and who's peeking through is the woman. But this real star, Lacey, here is The Window.

• 36:57Laci Mosley?

  It is. The Window is the true star. Also, the woman doesn't even have a name, and The Window gets to be on the cover of the book.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would say, mhm.

• 37:06Laci Mosley?

  Sounds about right.

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Oh, it's like The Time Traveler's Wife, it's like that kind of title. Where I'm like, you've immediately, you say it's about her, but you immediately named someone with a more interesting job. I want to know about The Time Traveler.

• 37:19Laci Mosley?

  No, no, no, we only talk about his wife. No, we want to know about-

• 37:22Speaker 04

  But what'd she do?

• 37:23Laci Mosley?

  And this is Dan, and look at Dan. He's got the face of a grifter. He got full head of hair, he looks charismatic.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  Haven't, haven't seen a day in the sun.

• 37:33Laci Mosley?

  Oh, no, yeah, it's given Edward Cullen.

• 37:38Laci Mosley?

  He, he could have been in Twilight with no makeup. They would have been like, yeah, don't come as you are.

• 37:44Laci Mosley?

  You got the look. He looks like he would get a book deal. He has the face of someone who just gets a book deal. Like, you have the name of someone who just gets, like, uh, people to sign up for their tutorials. He has the face of someone who just walks into a publishing house and is like, "Give me one of them books y'all got round here."

• 38:00Speaker 04

  Wait, I prefer that look, I want that look. I don't want a tutor, I don't want a tutor.

• 38:06Laci Mosley?

  Well, look, that has nothing to do with your look. Your look is fantastic. I was just talking about you. You were right to put that name, like Osko, you put that up and and the girls came running, okay?

• 38:14Speaker 04

  I know.

• 38:15Laci Mosley?

  He walks into the publishing house and they were like, yeah, whatever you want to write about.

• 38:18Speaker 04

  Yes, and he's like, I thought so. Thank you. So I have ideas. There's a woman. Hmm. We'll call her Woman. There's a window. And they're like, are you kidding me? Four hundred million dollars.

• 38:31Laci Mosley?

  Up front, up front. You can have whatever you want. We'll take a book out right now. Write it on a Post-it note. That's just the woman in the window. Good. Sold. So this book features an unreliable, first-person female narrator and an apparent murder and a possible psychopath. But it turns out many of the plot points involving deception and fraud in the book were taken from Dan's own life in publishing. Right? Well, you know?

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah. That's kind of interesting.

• 39:01Laci Mosley?

  So the creation of his persona. Dan Mallory was born in nineteen seventy-nine in New York City. His parents were very, very WASP-y. This is in quotes, okay? In spirit of Catholic practice, know that WASP stands for white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, if you don't know. Typically, you know, very buttoned up people who are gonna have three cocktails before dinner and cheat on their, you know, significant others with the gardener and just really fun stuff, you know? Never cry, lots of whispers at parties, but never any confrontations directly. Beautiful shit. It takes so much restraint to be a WASP. Sometimes I do like, love it, because I'm like, oh, they're fighting, but like with eye movement.

• 39:42Speaker 04

  It's like stuff I definitely mostly just seen in movies.

• 39:47Laci Mosley?

  Same.

• 39:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:48Laci Mosley?

  I would love to see it in person, up close.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And then I'd be like, oh shit, I'm here, up close. Ooh, I'm too close. I, okay, I'll call an Uber.

• 39:59Laci Mosley?

  I want to go to croquet events, okay? I want to be stopping divots with my best friend, who I secretly hate, you know?

• 40:08Speaker 04

  That's not, I mean, I love that. It sounds fun, you know? Yeah, I would, I would do like five minutes at a place like that in person.

• 40:15Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, I love shenanigans. So it sounds good to me. So his grandfather was born John Barton, and he was born a poor. Oh wait, his name, his last name was Poor? Never mind y'all, his name is John Barton Poor. I feel like if my last name was Poor, I would have to change that just because the vibes aren't giving what I want.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  And I got kinda confused just now too, hearing it, where I was like.

• 40:37Laci Mosley?

  I did too.

• 40:38Speaker 04

  I, I thought, you know, whoever wrote this was calling them a Poor.

• 40:42Laci Mosley?

  That's what I thought as well, but no, their last name is Poor. But Mr. Poor was a chairman and chief executive of RKO General, which owned TV and radio stations. So maybe he was trying to throw the girls off the scent. He was clearly very rich. Let's go by Poor.

• 40:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:58Laci Mosley?

  Maybe the government won't notice.

• 41:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  They love irony, don't they?

• 41:03Laci Mosley?

  Right. So Dan began his fiction writing career in nineteen ninety-nine and towards the end of his sophomore uh year at college at Duke University. A lot of scammers who've come out of Duke University, just wanna say that. I'm not the first Duke University scammer. What y'all doing over there, Duke? And how can I get involved? He published an essay detailing events of his lonely teenage life entitled, "Take Full Advantage of Suffering." Okay, so you grew up rich and waspy. And then you wrote a book called, "Take Full Advantage of Suffering." So, the piece described his life growing up in a single parent home, acting as a caretaker to his mother who had cancer. A section of his book reads, "I do not know whether she spied on me as I gazed downward contemplating the unjustly colloquial

• 41:48Laci Mosley?

  sound of lumpectomy, or if some primal maternal instinct alerted her to my presence, but in coarse, ragged voice, she breathed my name. Dan."

• 42:00Laci Mosley?

  It's an excerpt from the book.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 42:03Laci Mosley?

  Dan had employed a similar Gothic style of writing in his college application essays, which he often used words about, or wrote about the tragedy of his mother's illness and his own childhood. The strategy did not work for all schools, and when Princeton rejected Dan, he sent a letter to Frank Hargadon, the dean of admissions, that started, "You heartless bastard. What kind of latter day Stalin refuses admission to someone in my plight."

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Dang. Yeah, my god, so dramatic.

• 42:31Laci Mosley?

  The entitlement.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:33Laci Mosley?

  To reach out to someone at Princeton and be like, "Wait a minute, did you read about my suffering?"

• 42:39Speaker 04

  I know.

• 42:40Laci Mosley?

  You know, I'm, I'm suffering hella hard. How you not gonna let me into Princeton, you raggedy bitch?

• 42:46Speaker 04

  But I prefer a sentence like that. People who write in like poems only or something, I'm just like, what? Are you trying not to make sense?

• 42:54Laci Mosley?

  Like you just said that like uh the dean of admissions at Princeton, a limerick like what?

• 43:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, you dramatic fuck. Oh, my god.

• 43:04Laci Mosley?

  We gotta put you on a watch list cuz like sir, who does these types of things? Who does this? Also the entitlement.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  Very serial killer to be like, catch me if you can, catch me if you cannot, my plight.

• 43:13Laci Mosley?

  Right. Also, the entitlement of not getting into a school and then reaching out to them is just so beyond me. Like my mom made me apply to Harvard. I knew I wasn't gonna get in, but I had a college coach. And so I applied under women's studies, which wasn't as popular of a major.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:27Laci Mosley?

  And when I got the rejection letter, I was like, yeah, makes sense. Moving on.

• 43:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:32Laci Mosley?

  It wasn't like Harvard, you raggedy bitch, y'all don't know my plight. I'm a black woman in America, y'all racist as hell for not letting me in. Like what?

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's just like because things usually should work out for him kinda thing, you know?

• 43:46Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, very much that energy. So the truth was that Dan grew up in a relatively loving home in the suburbs of Long Island, complete with private school and two very alive, not sick, parents.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. Why did I not see? I was so into like the Gothic form of writing and the plight and the poems. I

• 44:08Laci Mosley?

  That's his scam.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  I kinda didn't see that part coming, that like.

• 44:11Laci Mosley?

  He's like hit him with the poems, then they won't worry about the facts.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. It's like, no wonder you sound like a hot topic. Like, mm, I'm so sad. You know, it's very like cosplay. It can be.

• 44:22Laci Mosley?

  Yes. Cosplaying is tortured, which is interesting because it's what a lot of people who have an incredible amount of privilege do. They often like to make themselves the victim because they know they're really the predator. You can't hoard wealth and be the victim. Like, that's just not how that works.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  A hundred percent. Okay, so private school and

• 44:40Laci Mosley?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Parents who are very well.

• 44:42Laci Mosley?

  Very, very much alive and healthy. So the same summer of nineteen ninety-nine, Dan interned at New Line Cinema in New York because of course he did. Like, of course, he's got all the opportunities. In a later interview, he claimed that he spent the summer polishing James Wrong's Final Destination. So he said he was helping polish the book Final Destination.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 45:03Laci Mosley?

  Or excuse me, the movie.

• 45:04Speaker 04

  Yes, I remember this, a movie, okay.

• 45:07Laci Mosley?

  And Final Destination was definitely a movie that really fucked me up in my childhood. Because the, when they started getting everybody, if you don't know what Final Destination is, it's a movie about people being on a flight, like, young hot people. And then the flight, like, crashes and they live, but everybody was supposed to die on the flight. So then they all start randomly dying and they're like outrunning death because death was like, oops, my bad, I I meant to get all of y'all.

• 45:33Speaker 04

  That's hilarious, okay, yeah, I've never seen it, I knew it was about like running away from death, you know, and you're.

• 45:38Laci Mosley?

  It was very popular at the time, yes.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:41Laci Mosley?

  And it freaked me out because it was like, oh, if you were someplace, if you, it was like even people, I think, I I, it's not really spoiling it, it's been out forever. But I think there was even people who like didn't make the flight because like something, you know, went wrong or whatever and they were like, nah, you're supposed to be on this flight, so we gonna kill you too.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Wow, yeah, okay, now I'm gonna go watch, it's very goth.

• 46:02Laci Mosley?

  It is. I also just love death being like, my bad, I actually meant to get all y'all, hold on.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's really funny.

• 46:08Laci Mosley?

  Be over there six business weeks.

• 46:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:11Laci Mosley?

  For your life.

• 46:12Speaker 04

  He's like, this is my only job, okay, I fucked up, I don't usually do that, like, who does he answer to, I mean, I feel like.

• 46:19Laci Mosley?

  Right. Death reporting to HR like, I know, I know, I don't know how it happened, I usually kill everybody. Give me a few weeks, I'm gonna get them in interesting ways, I'm gonna make it hilarious.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  They're like, your job isn't complicated, it doesn't even have to be interesting, he's like, yeah, but I'm an artist, I misunderstood. I'm like a misunderstood artist, you know, I gotta be original.

• 46:40Laci Mosley?

  No, death, you could just stop their hearts, nah, nah, I got something better for their ass, hold on. What about several trucks that are holding pipes and then the pipes just start flying out of the truck, death, that's gonna take forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but listen, it's gonna be cute.

• 46:54Laci Mosley?

  Just wait till you see the headlines, it's gonna be cute, you gonna like it, you gonna fuck with it.

• 46:57Speaker 04

  So then this Dan Mallory guy co- connected to this idea, this movie.

• 47:02Laci Mosley?

  Yes, and so he was basically saying that he was help, helping James Wrong polish this movie up. And the movie was very successful at the time. So an opportunity offered to him because of his youth and and his amazing writing ability. And uh, he was giving the movie edge and helping sex it up in quotes.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 47:23Laci Mosley?

  So James has since said that Dan never worked on Final Destination, surprise, surprise. So he's just up here lying. So in 2001, he was a student speaker at Duke's commencement ceremony. He bragged about having talked his way into the thesis program of Duke's English Department despite not having done any qualifying work. Yeah, we know, Dan. That's what you do. You show up places looking like you deserve things and then people give them to you. He said he had honed hi- his personality to a fine lance and could deploy his character as he did his intellect. This is a quote. So he said he honed his, you are crazy, Dan.

• 47:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:58Laci Mosley?

  You honed your personality.

• 48:01Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:02Laci Mosley?

  He was like, I practiced lying so hard. Every day I get up, I tell lies to myself till I believe them in the mirror and then I practice on other people.

• 48:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, you can't have that much time on your hands, you know, when you do have the wealth.

• 48:14Laci Mosley?

  Well, he did work hard at lying. You know, I will say he did put in the 10,000 hours to be deceitful. Okay? Love that for him. So fake it till you make it. So let's get into the publishing. So between 2002 and 2004, Dan left New York to study for a master's degree at the University of Oxford in England, studying literature and writing. To his peers and professors, these years were interrupted by frequent trips back to America to take care of the recurrence of cancer. He even brought his mom back in- into the cancer.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 48:43Laci Mosley?

  So he had to go back and take care of her, in quotes, and no one dug deeper out of politeness. Because what are you gonna be like? How are you gonna be like, does your mama really? Like, that's a question no one can ever ask anyone.

• 48:53Speaker 04

  For sure, yeah.

• 48:55Laci Mosley?

  They're like, show us a picture. Like, what are we gonna do? Like, that's crazy. Like, you just, you believe it.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  You're an asshole, start crying. I'm sure he's worked on that too. So he's like, oh, I can't, like, you want me to?

• 49:05Laci Mosley?

  He honed his skills.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

• 49:08Laci Mosley?

  So, uh, just to clarify here, he also was saying that he had cancer. So he was saying, I'm going back to see my mom and take care of her with her cancer, but also I got a little cancer as well. It did me too, so I gotta go take care of mine too, but I'm gonna be back, but both of us, you know, very sick. So he did not have cancer, surprise, surprise. And while his mother briefly fought breast cancer in his childhood, neither did she. She was, has been in remission for many, many years. So he received his master's in 2004 and moved back to New York and applied to be an assistant to Linda Marrow, the editorial director of Valentin, a publisher under Random House. He got the job by describing during the interview how he loved his, this woman's literature and he came, like, he would read it to his mom while she was fighting the cancer, and, and he was too.

• 49:54Laci Mosley?

  And so that's how he kind of worked his way. He's been using this grift in every single way possible.

• 49:59Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 50:00Laci Mosley?

  In one essay, he describes how his mother made him read aloud to her a passage in Little Women, which Beth dies stoically so that his mother could sneer at it, basically. I'm like, what? So I guess he's trying to say like he kept his mom fighting for her life by reading books that came from this publishing house.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  Right. Oh, my god. Yeah, all of it sounds so psychotic. In a way, I'm kind of glad he put it towards like, trying to be a writer instead of, you know, actually killing people in the streets.

• 50:31Laci Mosley?

  Cause it feels like that was his second career choice is murderer.

• 50:34Speaker 04

  While people were sleeping.

• 50:35Laci Mosley?

  Took one of those surveys and they were like, what, which job is best for you? Crossing guard, writer, murderer? These are things you would really excel at. Like, what?

• 50:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, totally.

• 50:47Laci Mosley?

  So Dan was so impatient to advance at his work, he used his boss's office after work hours and worked on her computer. On a few bizarre occasions in two thousand seven, after Dan said that he would be leaving the company to go back to school, several people found plastic cups of urine around Linda Mero's office. The pee incident stopped when he left, but not the credit card fraud. What? Wait a damn minute.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, wait.

• 51:12Laci Mosley?

  So he was working in his boss's office after hours, couldn't even go to the bathroom and pee. So he's peeing in cups. Don't even have the decency to take the pee cup with him when he leaves. And also doing credit card fraud?

• 51:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm like, okay, credit card. I can't even say that word. Cause I was thinking about that urine and how that was a very quick reveal. Like, I'm still thinking about it.

• 51:38Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, it was a bit of a, it hit me from left field as well. Oh, he was peeing in cups, but also credit card fraud anyways. You know, as one does, peas in cups does credit card fraud. I'm with you. It tracks. It all makes sense. So a few months later, Dan's former employers noticed unexplained spending at amazon.com.uk on a corporate American Express card. When confronted, Mallory acknowledged that he had used the card, but insisted that it was an error and also that his cancer had come back.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. Okay, but did they ask about the urine?

• 52:11Laci Mosley?

  I it doesn't seem like they asked about the urine and that would probably be my first question like yeah let's get to the credit card fraud for sure. But Dan, why were you peeing in these cups?

• 52:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:20Laci Mosley?

  And leaving them?

• 52:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz that's like that's that was that was disruptive. And that that was, you know, in my way and I had to smell it.

• 52:29Laci Mosley?

  And can you imagine going into your office and then just finding a cup of pee? I would be so incensed.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  It's insane because you have to like, oh, you have to like get near it to know. You have to like smell it or something go, oh, my god.

• 52:42Laci Mosley?

  Oh, god forbid you pick it up and then you smell it. Oh, what if a little bit get on you? Oh, no, no.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  And I can't believe he stayed for that long. They said, oh, it stopped happening when he was no longer there, but it's like first time, first time, I would fire him.

• 52:56Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, y'all need to have an office meeting. Like, I need to take a page out of Miriam's book when she had the intervention for the handyman. That's you have to have an office meeting where you find one cup of pee. You definitely don't find two cups of pee. It'd be like, hmm.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:09Laci Mosley?

  Curious.

• 53:10Speaker 04

  Totally. Yeah, every, oh, my gosh. Okay, so he was buying things on for Amazon in UK.

• 53:17Laci Mosley?

  Yes. So in his application to Oxford's doctorate program, he's still getting more education. Dan included an unusual extended personal statement similar to his college applications describing an epic history of personal suffering, including his travel to help his sick mother as well as his disabled brother, who also had cystic fibrosis. So now he's taking it up a notch. Now the brother's sick. He's munchausen the whole family at this point. And what's interesting to me is that his strategy is like, people feel bad for me. If I make people feel bad for me, then they'll give me what I want. And and so far, it's been working, you know? He did credit card fraud, didn't go to jail, pissed in everybody's office, and and nobody even brought that up. So while Dan took care of his mother, he also got a brain tumor and then his brother died under his care,

• 54:00Laci Mosley?

  followed shortly by his mother passing away. In reality, Dan's mother was very much not dead. Dan has even spoken about traveling with her in recent years. So he done forgot that he told some people that she was dead. And he was like, yeah, me and my mom just got back from the Caymans. Wait, your mom? Oh, uh, her spirit is with me everywhere I go, including, uh, a first-class trip to the Caymans. For her, yeah. We get her a plane ticket for her spirit. That's my main.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  That would be my main concern because his life is getting so public. You can't be yourself. You have to like, he could never see his mom. And yeah, just like that, the stories don't match up.

• 54:40Laci Mosley?

  Like, why you gotta treat your mom like a side piece? She's like, oh, let's take a photo for Easter. He's like turning his head.

• 54:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, your entire family. You know what? No wonder he was peeing in cups and forgetting to like, put them away or throw them away. Cause his mind was so busy having to remember, where did I lie? Who do I have to hide from the public? You know what I mean?

• 55:01Laci Mosley?

  So I gotta keep a lie journal. You have to write it down.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Oh, my god.

• 55:04Laci Mosley?

  Who was I lying to? Went on January fourteenth, two thousand fifteen, I told Oxford, my mama died. You just gotta write it down and read it to yourself every day, like the notebook.

• 55:18Speaker 04

  That's so true. Oh, my god, it's so much work. That was his real job, was having to keep up with being a liar.

• 55:24Laci Mosley?

  Mm-hmm. And Dan's father's also still alive. His brother is in excellent health. Additionally, though, doctors take three to four years, but by two years in, Dan was also ready. He was already signing his emails, Dr. Dan Mallory. So he said, I'm gonna get it eventually. I got enough of it to put doctor in front of it now. He was like, oh, my god. Dr. Phil not really a doctor. Same thing. So he never actually completed the degree. Dan would also later say he completed another PhD in the psychology department of American University. Ironically, for research into Munchausen syndrome, though there is no evidence of such research was conducted. So he even said the thing that he was doing. He was like, I gotta start incorporating the truth into my lies.

• 56:07Laci Mosley?

  Uh, I studied Munchausen's, which he does really study it by practicing it all the time, everywhere he goes. So towards the end of two thousand nine, he was hired as a mid-level editor at the British company Sphere, a commercial imprint of Little Brown. To the puzzlement of his New York colleagues, he worked with a. He was working there as an assistant. Okay.

• 56:28Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 56:28Laci Mosley?

  In his new role, Dan Flourish is a charming flattering colleague to both literary agents and authors. At the same time, he didn't, he didn't let others forget his own achievements and passing. He mentioned that he modeled for Guess jeans and that he appeared on the cover of Russian Vogue. Now, this is just random lies.

• 56:44Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 56:45Laci Mosley?

  But.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  No, you can't be a doctor and a liar and a model.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  No, I will not give him that.

• 56:54Laci Mosley?

  And a pee man.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  That I believe. That's the only thing that rings true, is that he has a small bladder.

• 57:01Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. That's the only thing he said honestly. But he, he's traditionally attractive. I wouldn't go Russian Vogue model attractive, but you know, I, I guess people would believe this. His flamboyant work to seduce Little Brown's authors. But they later became disenchanted when he missed deadlines or didn't do the work altogether. Yeah, of course, because he wasn't doing his job. That's going to disenchant anybody like, hey, man, can you actually do the employments? And he's like, didn't I tell you about how when I was a model?

• 57:31Speaker 04

  But.

• 57:31Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, damn, we heard.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  Some people think I'm hot. They're like, cool. Good job. Good job.

• 57:38Laci Mosley?

  That's his deadline. He comes in and the paper just says, some people think I'm hot. It's like, this is not the manuscript we asked for. Yeah, but don't worry about all that. I'm sexy. Remember that. I'll be in my office, not peeing in a cup.

• 57:50Laci Mosley?

  So in 2010, Dan, now 30 and impatient to move further up the ladder, told Little Brown he had received a job offer from another London publisher that earned him a raise and a promotion. He said he had another, he was like, somebody else want me, y'all? And they gave him a raise and a promotion, even though they were already disenchanted with the fact that he not doing the work at the workhouse.

• 58:09Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 58:11Laci Mosley?

  This fan just gets everything. I honestly, I'm in awe. So in addition to speaking often about his own personal achievements, he also spoke often about his inoperable brain tumor that he had that gave him just to 40 years to live. So he's also being like, hey, I need this promotion because I only have 10 years left to live because of my inoperable brain tumor. So y'all need to give me a raise.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  Wow, that is insane. I've been, I didn't, wow, okay.

• 58:38Laci Mosley?

  He's like, I don't have much time left to be CEO of this company, so we got to start the upward mobility today.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  Wow, I mean, I am, I'm also in awe. I like.

• 58:49Laci Mosley?

  I love it. I love it and I hate it. So, his coworkers wept at the news and he took time off to seek experimental treatments. Dan even told his coworkers he toured on an assisted death facility in Switzerland. Uh, the facility he mentioned, Dignitas, does not offer tours. So, it's a facility where if you wanna, you know,

• 59:11Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:11Laci Mosley?

  choose how your life ends on your own terms, they, you know, will help you. So, he's saying that he went and did a tour of that place to try to even garner more sympathy. However, this place that really does exist does not give tours. And think about it, that would be a really weird tour to be given. So, yeah, this is where we, we do you in. Uh, we, it's very comfortable. We have leather seats and, and memory foam. Like, what, what, what?

• 59:35Speaker 04

  I know, exactly. Cause it's like, you know, the last moments of your life.

• 59:40Laci Mosley?

  Of your life.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  It's not a long-term stay.

• 59:42Laci Mosley?

  It's not even hospice.

• 59:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, pictures will do. Pictures will, no tour. Are you kidding me? Oh, my god.

• 59:49Laci Mosley?

  This man is just truly insane. So, several months later, Little Brown's CEO had dinner with the CEO of the company Dan claimed to have received a job offer from, and was told that there was never such an offer. Duh. So, when confronted, Dan said that the CEO was lying in retaliation for having once rejected a sexual proposition. Wow. So, now he's saying he lying because I didn't wanna sleep with them. So, now he lying on me. And also, remember my brain tumor and that I was a model. Let's move on. We got other things to talk about.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  Remember, Russia thinks I'm hot.

• 1:00:19Laci Mosley?

  Okay, anyways, I'll be back in my office. Not being in God. Like, why does he keep saying that?

• 1:00:27Laci Mosley?

  So, Dan's response inspired very little faith, and he left Little Brown in 2012 under reasons covered by an NDA, though others speculate his bosses caught him in other lies. I'm sure they did. At the same time, he accepted a position at the New York publisher. I love that he can just keep getting jobs. Lie at Stellix. And he moved back across the pond where they were apparently unaware or ambivalent to the reputation that he was leaving behind. Though he was very much a blundering American in London, back in New York, he spoke in a British accent and used British phrases that even made their way into his writing. So, he went back to America and was like, now I'm British. Oh, Madonna. At one point in 2013, he stopped coming into the office due to unknown reasons. You know, he don't like to work.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:01:10Laci Mosley?

  He's like, I want a job, but I don't wanna do the jobbing.

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm so curious to see his day to day, like if it's just like a few sentences he types on a laptop and he's like, okay, I guess I go now.

• 1:01:22Laci Mosley?

  So at one point in 2013, he just stops coming to work for unknown reasons. And that's when the emails from his brother Jake started. So the Jake emails. In February of 2012, some of Dan's former London colleagues received an email from Jake Mallory, whom they'd never met before, telling them that Dan was about to go into the hospital for a high-risk surgery on his tumor. In addition to describing Dan's daily routine, Jake also mentioned Dan was treated terribly by the people throughout his childhood and teenage years and into his twenties, which left him a very deeply lonely person, so he does not like or trust many people. The following day, Jake sent a similar email to Dan's New York colleagues. Jake, in quotes, continues the dialogue with several editors. And while most didn't

• 1:02:05Laci Mosley?

  question such a story, Dan's writing is so idiosyncratic that a few people started to catch on. They're like, Jake writes a lot like Dan. Jake's writing a lot of poems.

• 1:02:14Speaker 04

  He sounds like a Gothic vampire, too.

• 1:02:16Laci Mosley?

  Exactly. And also, online impersonations are a plot point in Dan's book, The Woman in the Window. So to bring it back, we're about to get back to the woman in the window. But not really the woman, just the window.

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:28Laci Mosley?

  So meanwhile, the actual Jake was busy preparing for his wedding during the time that he was supposed to be playing nursemaid to Dan. A few days in emails later, after what Jake said turned out to be a seven-hour spinal surgery, Dan was in his own inbox again, reporting to colleagues, today I start weaning myself off my sweet Vicodin. So I am, oh my God, I hate the way this man's writes. I hate how he fucking writes so much.

• 1:02:54Speaker 04

  It's so creepy.

• 1:02:55Laci Mosley?

  I can't even read it. I'm gonna try again. I feel like I'm having a stroke this episode. Dan gets back on his email, his real one, at dandefinitelyarealemploy.com，并且 发送了

• 1:03:09Laci Mosley?

  And he says, "Today I start weaning myself off my sweet, sweet Vicodin, so am at least fit to correspond." That is what it said. I had to read that. Like I'm a five-year-old, like with one hand under each word. What are you saying?

• 1:03:27Speaker 04

  I hate the way he writes too. Just say the thing. "I'm lying, sorry, been lying."

• 1:03:32Laci Mosley?

  Right. Just say, "I'm high on Vicodin from my fake surgery, but I can say what's up now."

• 1:03:39Laci Mosley?

  "But I'm still very much sick and need to not come into work, but also hello." I have a feeling y'all know that though, because maybe a mysterious Jake hit y'all up. I don't know.

• 1:03:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, or the last "All My Life."

• 1:03:51Laci Mosley?

  So in the following months, Jake continued his correspondence updates about Dan's health, which apparently declined again in March, so he didn't make his health decline again. I, okay, Dan, get to the book. Shit, I'm tired of you. So Jake noted that Dan had been working with abused children and infants at the hospital where he was treated, and included anecdotes about their childhoods that implied that Dan briefly suffered some sort of physical abuse. So now they're saying he's at the hospital getting treatment, but also he Patch Adams.

• 1:04:20Laci Mosley?

  He be in there on Red Nose Day, just turning the fuck up, really helping the kids. What?

• 1:04:26Speaker 04

  He's so busy. This is the story of like 10 people.

• 1:04:31Laci Mosley?

  Right, I'm exhausted by him. Like I'm truly exhausted by him. I'm scrolling down because I'm like, how much more? Like, please shut up. Go away. So he's lying. He lying some more. That same night, the email was sent. An ex-colleague of Dan's at Little Brown received an anonymous email calling her one of the nastiest cunts in publishing. Oh my God. Dan denied sending it, though in the book that he wrote, "The Woman in the Window", oh, the woman has a name, Anna Fox. "She seeks advice about a threatening anonymous email and is told that there's no way to trace a Gmail account", in the book, so.

• 1:05:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:05:09Laci Mosley?

  He's writing about his real life and shit that he did to people. So several weeks later, Dan finally returned to work, but looked no worse for the wear. So he comes back to work looking great.

• 1:05:18Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:19Laci Mosley?

  Like, he done had all these surgeries. He was entertaining the kids, you know? He had a downturn in March, then an upturn in May. But somehow, he looks the same.

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  Right, and he's like, oh, you know, he's not working on a limp or something, you know?

• 1:05:33Laci Mosley?

  No, he should have did at least a limp. And it, that doesn't really make sense, but what he was saying was wrong with him. Give us something.

• 1:05:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, curved back, I don't know.

• 1:05:40Laci Mosley?

  So on one occasion, when a coworker inquired after Jake, Dan casually told him that he killed himself. So now he done killed Jake off.

• 1:05:51Laci Mosley?

  He's killed his brother no less than three times at this point.

• 1:05:54Speaker 04

  His coworkers must have felt so crazy. They all probably sought mental health help. Maybe they all were taking pills at this point, like, maybe we.

• 1:06:03Laci Mosley?

  I would have.

• 1:06:04Speaker 04

  You know, I'd be like, no, I'm the crazy one then, you know? I'm, I, I'm losing my mind. This man comes in here every day. He loses a family member every day. I've lost count. I'm crazy.

• 1:06:16Laci Mosley?

  And in the most tragic ways. Also, how you just gonna be like, you sending these emails to people as Jake all this time? Keeping them updated on your fake health? And then somebody asks you about Jake, you just like, oh, he did? Like, what?

• 1:06:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't, I would be like, give me all the pills, doctor. I need to be high every day.

• 1:06:34Laci Mosley?

  I need a therapy session after this, because this is really just getting in my head. So yet again, his colleagues and his bosses either believed his stories or didn't care enough to do anything about it, despite having since admitted that he has never had cancer. So they're just like, oh, whatever, man, we're busy. We got, Prince is dying, we have bigger fish to fry than Dan and all of his lies. So if only you could put them on paper, that's where the lies would really cook, and he does. So plagiarism of the woman in the window.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:07:02Laci Mosley?

  So it was the summer of 2015, we're getting to the end of this, guys. Uh, it was the summer of 2015 that Dan said he came up with an idea for his debut novel, The Woman in the Window. The book is about a mid-career psychologist with professional experience in psychopathy who is trapped at home by crippling agoraphobia brought on by traumas. The premise is closely describing the 1995 thriller Copycat, starring Sigourney Weaver and Holly Hunter. So he literally copycatied Copycat.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  That's so wild. It's like he was trying to get caught.

• 1:07:36Laci Mosley?

  I love it a little bit.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Laci Mosley?

  The respective protagonists of both the movies even share similar usernames to their online forums. She Doc and The Doctor Is It. So though Dan has said he took the pseudonym AJ Finn because it was easily recognizable and readable pixelated. In reality, it was because he worked at a senior level in publishing. Publishing and film rights were bid on, though when Dan revealed his name, many publishers dropped out. So the reason that he dropped under a fake name, which a lot of authors do, they'll do a pen name. He did it because his real name is so soiled that

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:08:13Laci Mosley?

  nobody was gonna get involved. He was like, I just wanna keep my anonymity. No, bro. You don't want people to know you a thief.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Dang.

• 1:08:22Laci Mosley?

  So the novel entered the Times Bestseller List at number one. The first time in 12 years that a debut novel has done so. Just months after Gillian Flynn's The Girl on the Train swept the publishing world by storm. So you were right, Asko, this was the time of

• 1:08:38Speaker 04

  Bitch on a train.

• 1:08:40Laci Mosley?

  Bitch on the train, bitch in the window, bitch in the attic, bitch in the basement.

• 1:08:47Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 1:08:48Laci Mosley?

  And we were eating these bitches up.

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Laci Mosley?

  And sure were. I was like, where the bitch at now? Let me get it. Let me buy that book.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  Girl who hangs out with

• 1:08:55Laci Mosley?

  She got a dragon tattoo?

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Exactly. Girl with the Earring. Girl with the boyfriend who's more important.

• 1:09:02Laci Mosley?

  Wait, why are you naming real books, though? The Girl with the Earring is a real book, too.

• 1:09:06Speaker 04

  No, I know. It's like, oh, my gosh, we just wanted to get to know girls doing stuff.

• 1:09:12Laci Mosley?

  Women are down. Girls being girls, being girls, being guys. Like, women are down bad in the publishing world. They hate us, god damn. The bitch on the train, the bitch getting hit by the train. Like, what? So.

• 1:09:28Laci Mosley?

  So a debut number one because we were eating up the, the bitch books. We was like, yes, where's the bitch now? Where's Waldo, but a bitch in a book?

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. We haven't seen A Woman in the Window. Yeah.

• 1:09:39Laci Mosley?

  Right. We seen her other, like, oh, the woman by the dishwasher. Okay, she's moving.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  A whole ass book.

• 1:09:47Laci Mosley?

  And I'mma, and I'mma read it. So a film adaptation starring Nicole Kidman and Gary Oldman was shot months later after its debut, followed by a subsequent parody, The Woman in the House Across the Street From the Woman in the Window, which I auditioned for this show. This was with Kristen Bell.

• 1:10:03Speaker 04

  I love this. This is, that's funny.

• 1:10:06Laci Mosley?

  If you haven't, it's a fun show. It's a fun parody of like, the woman just being not listened to and being places and no one believing her.

• 1:10:16Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 1:10:16Laci Mosley?

  And I love Kristen Bell. She's so good. So it's, it's a fun one on Netflix. So despite his reputation, he has not broken any major laws and Dan still has plans for a second book to come out with Harper Collins. A television series is set to come out about Dan's deception starring Jake Gyllenhaal as Dan.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  Ah, Dan, you can't lose. Yeah, because you, you probably get paid for that, right? If someone plays you?

• 1:10:40Laci Mosley?

  If he's a part of the licensing, which it seems that he is. Well, there's, it's a television series set about his deception. So I actually don't know if he's a part of the licensing because you don't get paid if it's public knowledge and people decide to do a movie or a TV show about your life. That's why Pam and Tommy, even though it was so brilliantly acted, when I found out that Pamela Anderson was like, I don't get paid from this. I'm being exploited again. And I was like, the whole show is about her exploitation. And then they're like, girl, we don't need your permission.

• 1:11:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. Cause I think they did Selena, the TV series and the family was like, we didn't get anything out of this either and we.

• 1:11:16Laci Mosley?

  Yep. Dahmer, like, they were recreating traumatic moments from court scenes, word for word, bar for bar. And none of those people even were alerted that the show was coming out. They found out on Twitter, like the rest of us.

• 1:11:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay, okay. Well, hopefully in this case, Dan doesn't see a dime.

• 1:11:34Laci Mosley?

  Yeah, we actually, in this case, we hope that. Dan is not getting coin. And and and no recognition. That's what I hope. Jake Gyllenhaal, you go get that bag, sweetie. And hopefully he sees none of it. In the other cases, I'm like, ah, it's not really so great. But here, I'm like, Dan, I hope you get robbed. Cause you were just scammed up. I've never seen someone fail up so far. He kept getting fired from places. Or leaving under mysterious circumstances and then still getting another job.

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  I know, and then promoted. I'm also like how, I wonder what his family actually thinks, you know, or like. If they're like, hey, this has gone really far. Can you stop?

• 1:12:09Laci Mosley?

  I know his family is so tired of funeral homes calling down.

• 1:12:16Laci Mosley?

  Shady Pines, if you don't get your bitch ass off this phone.

• 1:12:19Speaker 04

  Exactly. Yes, a hundred percent.

• 1:12:22Laci Mosley?

  Forever interred. No, we do not need your business. We, everybody's alive. They just get flowers all the times into the house.

• 1:12:30Speaker 04

  Yes, yes. Oh, my god.

• 1:12:32Laci Mosley?

  If they see another casserole, they're just gonna pass out. Like, they're like, please, everyone is alive over here. We swear.

• 1:12:39Speaker 04

  Yes, Jake is the healthiest of us all.

• 1:12:44Speaker 04

  Or whatever. Oh, my god.

• 1:12:45Laci Mosley?

  Oh, well, that brings us to the end of this historic hoodwink, which, wow, Dan, I'm tired of you just from reading about you. Like, I'm tired of reading your writing. It's absolutely horrendous, but apparently people love it. But that's also because people love to see a girl or a woman somewhere.

• 1:13:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, and that's a greater, you know, comment about society.

• 1:13:05Laci Mosley?

  Truly. And now, we've reached the saddest part of the show. The end. We're after let Otsco go. But before we do, we just want to update you guys scammer of the week. This is a short one. On November eighteenth, Elizabeth Holmes, Lizzie, our black turtleneck evil girl boss royalty.

• 1:13:23Laci Mosley?

  The founder of Theranos and the tiny thing was sentenced to more than eleven years in prison on Friday for defrauding investors about her company's technology and business dealings. Her team had asked for just eighteen months on house arrest while prosecutors sought fifteen years and eight hundred and four million dollars in restitution for twenty-nine investors. Though Elizabeth's specific charges carried a maximum sentence of twenty years, it's a rare fraud sentence that is so heavy. And Elizabeth obviously plans to appeal.

• 1:14:00Laci Mosley?

  Pour one out for Lizzie, y'all. Throw a black turtleneck out the window.

• 1:14:06Laci Mosley?

  Cause this is straight, I mean, like, I want her to go to jail. Oh, actually, I'm not into carceral systems and like, I think it's a waste of money to put people in jail, but if you defraud rich people, oh, you going to jail, jail. You're going to Club Fed. If, because this isn't even about all the poor people and the sick people that she tricked and lied to with a tiny thing. This is solely about the rich investors that she stole money from.

• 1:14:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:28Laci Mosley?

  Which is sad, that that's what it takes to get.

• 1:14:31Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 1:14:31Laci Mosley?

  Justice.

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  I know, that you had to have covered, you know, yeah.

• 1:14:36Laci Mosley?

  And someone, a Walgreens executives quoted her saying that pretty people like me don't go to jail. And that quote kind of got out and everybody was like, mm, well, it seems like they gonna put your cute self in jail, Lizzie.

• 1:14:50Laci Mosley?

  And you'll still be cute behind bars, I guess.

• 1:14:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Laci Mosley?

  I don't know, child.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, the people will still be doing portraits of you or something. You could have a caricature person.

• 1:15:00Laci Mosley?

  And people are saying like, oh, well, she'll get out earlier than that, but if she loses her appeals, you have to serve eighty-five percent of a federal sentence regardless. So the earliest she could get out right now is nine and a half years.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:15:13Laci Mosley?

  So Lizzie, Lizzie, and she pregnant, I know she was cooking up them kids to be like, okay, we gotta time this baby for when we gonna be at the sentencing. So then they'll look at me with the baby inside me while I'm cooking it and be like, no, we can't send this, this maternal queen to prison.

• 1:15:28Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, oh. And this is why I support abortions, like, people just will, people will just get pregnant and that baby, can you imagine?

• 1:15:38Laci Mosley?

  Now, that baby's not gonna have a mama, like, you had a whole baby for a publicity stunt.

• 1:15:43Speaker 04

  You did that to the baby, the baby's like, what did you use me for? What? Why am I here on earth? Oh, you know, I was trying to get eighteen months.

• 1:15:52Laci Mosley?

  Oh, house arrest.

• 1:15:53Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 1:15:55Laci Mosley?

  That's why you exist, because I was trying to get eighteen months house arrest instead of prison, prison.

• 1:15:59Speaker 04

  But I love you.

• 1:16:01Laci Mosley?

  I don't regret it, no.

• 1:16:05Laci Mosley?

  This is all being said on a phone in the prison.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:16:08Laci Mosley?

  Oh, damn. Well, y'all, pour one out for Lizzie.

• 1:16:11Speaker 04

  Thank you for that update.

• 1:16:13Laci Mosley?

  Of course, and we always ask at the end of the show, Atsuko, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to promote? We know you got this special coming out on HBO that I'm super excited about. That's December 10. Anything else you want to promote? Socials, whatever.

• 1:16:24Speaker 04

  No, I mean, you can find me at Atsuko Comedy for, you know, on all the socials and that's where you'll see more updates. But yeah, just my HBO special. I worked so hard on it and so excited to share with y'all.

• 1:16:37Laci Mosley?

  Yes, and you really should follow Atsuko on socials because she's very entertaining, very funny, so many great videos of her with her grandma, other hilarious comedy videos. Like, you're very entertaining to follow and a lovely timeline cleanse from the doom and gloom, so thank you.

• 1:16:51Speaker 04

  Thank you, Lacey. Thanks for having me.

• 1:16:54Laci Mosley?

  Thank you for being on. As always, guys, you can find me at Diva Lacy, Diva Lacey, on all platforms. If you want to follow the show and see the photos, scamgoddesspod. And if you want to email us, send it to your friends and family at [email protected]. Congregation. Stay being in windows.

• 1:17:14Laci Mosley?

  This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Cargbo, engineered by Ryan Connor and Abby Aguilar. Our researcher is Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming.

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