EP.267 - RICHARD AYOADE & FRANK BLACK (LIVE)

DR BUCKLES' FRANK BLACK SELECTION https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4amwzlHb70XR7I6V7mVpoI?si=f8d5d0c4ceba41be&pt=e69b131ec77eecaa9d5a1ce25f03a632 (SPOTIFY) Adam talks with British writer, director, actor and comedian Richard Ayoade about Wes Anderson, the pain of returning an album, and their shared love of Pixies, before being joined on stage by Pixies frontman Frank Black, who sings a song from his classic solo album Teenager Of The Year and (in a conversation recorded before a Pixies show the previous evening) Frank tells Adam how he really feels about comedians making music and the trauma of his audition for David Fincher's film Zodiac. Conversations recorded face-to-face in London on 18 & 19 March 2024 Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell and Becca Bryers for additional editing, and the team from Crosstown Promotions, especially Richard Walsh, Annalisa Lembo, Ben Saunders, Phil Turner Listen to Adam's album 'Buckle Up' https://adambuxton.lnk.to/BuckleUp Order Adam's book 'I Love You Byeee' https://lnk.to/iloveyoubyeee_ Sign up for the newsletter on Adam's website https://www.adam-buxton.co.uk/ (scroll down on homepage) Podcast illustration by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/ NORD VPN EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal https://nordvpn.com/buxton Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! RELATED LINKS FRANK BLACK AND RICHARD AYOADE - HEY https://youtu.be/LJhFEqFa9x0 (REHEARSAL) - 2024 (YOUTUBE) FRANK BLACK AND RICHARD AYOADE - WHERE IS MY MIND https://youtu.be/e9DCxymPFdg (REHEARSAL) - 2024 (YOUTUBE) FRANK BLACK & THE CATHOLICS - DOG GONE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucBVVq_ztDM Directed by Adam Buxton and Joe Cornish - 1998 (YOUTUBE) FRANK BLACK - TEENAGER OF THE YEAR https://shop.4ad.com/release/477762-frank-black-teenager-of-the-year-30th-anniversary-edition?lang=en_GB 30th ANNIVERSARY EDITION - 2025 (4AD) THE UNFINISHED HARAULD HUGHES (AUDIOBOOK) https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/The-Unfinished-Harauld-Hughes-Audiobook/B0D8WPW25J?&source_code=PS1PP30DTRIAL452022924008X&ipRedirectOverride=true&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp_iGmqfOjAMV6D4GAB0mLxCrEAAYASAAEgLpv_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds - 2025 (AUDIBLE) Read by Richard Ayoade, Chris Morris, David Mitchell, Lydia Fox, Noel Fielding, Sally Hawkins, Stephen Merchant PLEASE STOP USING AI TO MAKE WES ANDERSON PARODIES https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/may/11/wes-anderson-parodies-ai by Stuart Heritage - 2023 (GUARDIAN) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buckston, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

• 0:31Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how are you doing, podcasters? It's Adam Buckston here. Just me today, Rosie is at home, dozing in her dog basket. In my wife's office. Her favourite place to be, other than by my side, of course. She's already been for a walk today with my son Nat. And it's a cold day, so it seemed a bit mean to get her back out again. Despite the coldness, it's a beautiful Norfolk afternoon. On, as I speak, the last day of November, 2025.

• 1:12Adam Buxton?

  The authentic sounds of the countryside.

• 1:19Adam Buxton?

  Sky incredibly clear and blue, there's not a single cloud up there. It's lovely and still and quiet, it's a Sunday.

• 1:29Adam Buxton?

  Only the sound of birds.

• 1:35Adam Buxton?

  The odd gentle, freezy breeze.

• 1:50Adam Buxton?

  Oh, that's cold, but fresh.

• 1:54Adam Buxton?

  And of course, the sound of a middle-aged guy doing his podcast intro. How are you doing, podcats? Hope everything's not too bad wherever you are. But look, shut up buckles, tell me a bit about podcast number 267. Okay, this one includes a small selection of waffle helpings from the live podcast show that I did at the London Palladium in March 2024, when my guest was British writer, director, actor and comedian, Richard Iawade. I played a very small section of that night's show on the podcast that I did with Richard earlier this year. But there's a couple more bits for you tonight, also including my other guest that evening,

• 2:38Adam Buxton?

  a significant musical figure in both my life and Richard's life, Frank Black, frontman of alt-rock legends Pixies. And in his solo capacity, the man responsible for many of my favourite songs of all time. I've done a Spotify playlist for you musos out there in case you're not familiar with Frank Black's solo stuff. I love it. Maybe sometimes even a bit more than the Pixies. Oh God, now I'm gonna be thrown into alt-rock jail. I have also included in this podcast a chunk of chat that I recorded with Frank Black the day before the Palladium Show,

• 3:22Adam Buxton?

  and that was recorded in his dressing room at the Forum in Kentish Town, where Pixies were playing that night. They were doing Bossa Nova from 1990 and Trompelemond from 1991, back to back. And in that short dressing room chat, you will hear me talking Frank through the arrangements for the Palladium Show the following night. I have met Frank, real name Charles Thompson, okay, Charles Michael Kittredge Thompson IV, to give him his full name, a few times. He was in one of our Vinyl Justice segments on the Adam and Joe Show. Joe and I also made a video for the song Dog Gone by Frank Black and the Catholics in 1998. You'll find a link to that in the description.

• 4:07Adam Buxton?

  And since then, we have stayed in sporadic contact. Frank is a big comedy fan. He especially likes a lot of British comedy. And I'm pretty sure that when I mentioned to him that Richard Iawade was going to be my guest for the live show, that was a big part of him agreeing to come along and be my other guest and play a song from one of my favourite albums of his, Teenager of the Year.

• 4:37Adam Buxton?

  And maybe because he enjoyed his experience on the Adam Buxton podcast live show so much, he returned to the Palladium earlier this year, 2025, to play Teenager of the Year in its entirety with the original band that recorded that record as part of the album's 30th anniversary celebrations. If you heard my podcast with Irish musician Seematt earlier this year, then you would have heard me talking about going to see that show, the Teenager of the Year show, and how much I enjoyed it despite some disruptive behaviour from some of my fellow middle-aged rock guys.

• 5:20Adam Buxton?

  But let's return to the Palladium now to join myself and Richard Iawade on stage for some Wes Anderson chat with reference to the AI Wes Anderson memes that did the rounds in 2023, for which people used AI image generation tools like Midjourney, Dall-E and Stable Diffusion to make trailers for films like Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter as if they had been directed by Wes Anderson. Then I talked to Richard a bit about music with both of us revealing which records by our favourite artists we were initially dissatisfied with and took back to the shop. Then I'll be back to say a few words before my Frank Black dressing room chat, but right

• 6:05Adam Buxton?

  now, in front of a live audience at the London Palladium in March 2024 with Richard Iawade. Here we go.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and fight your talking hat. Yes.

• 6:52Adam Buxton?

  Are you a crier at all?

• 6:56Speaker 02

  A crier?

• 6:57Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, do you cry? Is there any chance you could cry?

• 7:03Speaker 02

  I haven't yet. No, am I cry... I don't think I'm a huge crier. I mean, I grew up in Ipswich, so there's much to be sad about. But you learn to hold it in.

• 7:15Adam Buxton?

  Okay, so I'm not gonna probably get you to a place where you start weeping onstage tonight.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  I think it could be intriguing to try.

• 7:23Adam Buxton?

  All right. I'll bear it in mind.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:25Adam Buxton?

  But listen, Wes Anderson, working with him on Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:32Adam Buxton?

  That must have been amazing. Wes Anderson has come into the public consciousness in the last few years even more so because of the memes that popped up in the age of AI-generated imagery.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  It's interesting, he can never quite be captured by any of these things because there's something just so inhumane about these. And I find his films very humane and very restrained.

• 7:59Adam Buxton?

  Was that the first time working with him on that that you had met, or had you met before?

• 8:04Speaker 02

  He, when the film Submarine came out in America, he very kindly presented a screening of it in New York with Ben Stiller, because Ben Stiller knew Wes Anderson and Ben Stiller had been a producer on Submarine. So that, through no merit, it was given a very kind screening by him. So I'd met him then, 2011 or something like that.

• 8:33Adam Buxton?

  And what's it like? Just in general.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yes, what's it like? Well, he's extremely well-prepared, so he has what he calls a cartoon of the film, which is an animated storyboard of everything that's going to happen. And he's not one of those directors who films everything from lots of different angles and then pieces it together in the edit. More or less, everything he films is the shot that is going to be used and it's precisely got... It's a very pleasant set, very kindly-spirited collegiate, and he's worked with the same people for a long time, so they're incredibly adept. And, yes, it was a completely unearned joy.

• 9:23Adam Buxton?

  And then, how do you feel about the conversation around him, especially post the memes and stuff, now that he's become a kind of symbol for something fairly superficial, i.e. just almost like an Instagram filter?

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yes, in a certain way, I think with someone like him, you're penalized for your originality, because you can't really do memes about non-original people, because you wouldn't recognize them. As they show, they never quite capture what he does exactly, but I don't think they're sort of terrible, they're sort of people enjoying having their own version of some aesthetic in the same way that every band wants to be The Beatles, but they're not quite The Beatles.

• 10:10Adam Buxton?

  The criticism of Wes Anderson, though, is that he's easy to parody because all there is is the visual style. There's not enough meat underneath.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't-

• 10:21Adam Buxton?

  Deal with that.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Deal with that. Yes, I don't think there's a kind of...

• 10:28Speaker 02

  I don't think, "Okay, I'll deal with that." I don't think there's a straightforward separation between style and substance, in that style is the substance. Okay?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  The form is the message. I think McLuhan has dealt with this. And, well, I don't think there's any separation in the same way that the, um, the meter of a poem, you just go, it's all just dumpty dumpty dum. And I, I actually find his films really emotional because they're restrained. And there's, especially in, uh, there's a moment in Rushmore when, um, finally, uh, the Jason Schwartzman character and Bill Murray's character make up. And he offers him one of his, um, merit badges from school and the, the two different ones. And it's, I think one's either attendance or punctuality. And Bill Murray's character just goes, I'll take punctuality. And it's one of the most moving moments in the film, I think.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  And yeah, I'm a unabashed fan.

• 11:29Adam Buxton?

  I watched Rushmore on the weekend with my daughter. She's 15.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 11:34Adam Buxton?

  And I think it was the first film for as long as I can remember that she actually sat through and really enjoyed.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Adam Buxton?

  It was great fun. I liked it much more as well than I, I hadn't seen it since it came out.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:46Adam Buxton?

  And I think I didn't get it really when it came out. I was too distracted by, but no one would do that. You know what I mean?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Right. Yes.

• 11:57Adam Buxton?

  No one would behave, no one would tolerate such a...

• 11:59Speaker 02

  No one would blow up the Death Star. It's too hard.

• 12:04Adam Buxton?

  See, that's different though, because as soon as you've got space and lasers and helmets and robots, then you can do any, anything goes. It's a totally different emotional playing field. But then when it's stuff you can relate to, when it's people in a high school, when it's superficially recognizable things going on, then, then my rational brain locks in and I need everything to be like it would be in life.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  You know, I feel reassured when someone shows that they're making something and feel hugely worried when someone expects me to believe that this is actually real. So, it would be, it'd be very strange if you had not in any way addressed the fact that we're sitting here, talking to one another and just pretended this was a drama. That would be one of the most tense things that you could ever witness. So, I quite like things where they face the audience and they sort of go, "This is a film and this is for entertainment purposes." And I like old Hollywood films where people speak faster than anyone could possibly speak

• 13:15Speaker 02

  and live in houses that are impossible for people to live in and huge ceilings and gowns. It doesn't sort of bother me.

• 13:24Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. No, I think, I think I'm just quite unimaginative.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  No, I sort of, I almost think I'm so suspicious that I feel reassured by someone going, "It's okay, we're pretending." And I go, "Okay, that's good."

• 13:38Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. It just takes me ages to appreciate things. I think I remember everyone going on about how great Rushmore was when it came out and I just thought, "Is it?" That tends to be my response to most things, that people are very excited about.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  What's this?

• 13:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. "Oh god, another thing that's way better than anything I'll ever do."

• 13:58Speaker 02

  It's too much. Well, also, it can be sort of overwhelming seeing something as well because you have an idea often of what you want a thing to do. And you're just going, "This isn't doing the thing that I want the thing to do at all. This is doing some other thing."

• 14:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, exactly. Or you sort of think that you know what it wants to do and you think, "No, you're doing it wrong." I, if I was doing this thing which I could easily if I wanted to, then I would do it like this and you've gone and screwed it up.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  That's the danger.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Hello my friend, it's good to see you again. I've got to say, you're looking great. I love what you've done with your nipples and your knees and your shiny bald pate.

• 14:55Adam Buxton?

  Richard, music.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:57Adam Buxton?

  Can I ask you this? I've written down here, "Why is music so important?" Feel free to be quite sincere and I might cry.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  That is...

• 15:07Adam Buxton?

  Because, to be serious,

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:09Adam Buxton?

  You and I are, can we say nerdy?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  I think regardless of whether we say that or not, that's the objective reality we're dealing with. Yes.

• 15:21Adam Buxton?

  I think a lot of people would imagine, "I love David Bowie and he is close to my heart as far as musical heroes go."

• 15:29Speaker 02

  David Bowie, yes.

• 15:30Adam Buxton?

  Who would be the equivalent for you? Is it Maskes?

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Jay Maskes is pretty well up there as my favourite guitarist. Bowie, I mean Bowie is, I mean Bowie's pretty amazing. Were you very emotional when he died? Were you swept up in the wave of emotion?

• 15:50Adam Buxton?

  Yes and no. I was in myself. I felt, actually no, yes and yes.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:56Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  So in a sense, yes.

• 16:00Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  On the one hand, yes, and on the other hand also, yes.

• 16:03Adam Buxton?

  On both hands.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:04Adam Buxton?

  It was a yes.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 16:06Adam Buxton?

  Well, my dad had died three weeks before. Didn't mind about that too much.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  No, of course not.

• 16:11Adam Buxton?

  I was fine with that. He was very old.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  And he didn't make hunky dory.

• 16:16Adam Buxton?

  Exactly.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Lest we forget.

• 16:18Adam Buxton?

  He didn't even come close.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  No. I mean, his early stuff was good, but the later stuff, it's indulgent, it meandered.

• 16:25Adam Buxton?

  What's the most upset you ever got about a musician dying?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  I found myself, when Bowie died, because we live past Buxton and cycling through and seeing the people out on Vigils and it was quite an emotional thing, I'd say. Bowie dying, yeah. I'd say, yeah, maybe Bowie.

• 16:47Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I'm just trying to get you to do the Bowie voice, that's all.

• 16:50Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yes.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  That's what we want.

• 16:53Adam Buxton?

  I wonder if David ever stood on this stage.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  I think he must have.

• 16:59Adam Buxton?

  Endulged in a bit of superlative theatricality. Here in the west end of London with the London Boys.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:09Adam Buxton?

  Now he's with the London Boys. Okay. One thing that I remember very fondly from watching Snub TV, this show, which was fantastic. I think you can still find bits of it flying around on YouTube. But was watching Pixies, seeing them on Snub TV. And they filmed a video where they were just jumping across some rocks very slowly.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, I remember that.

• 17:35Adam Buxton?

  And they married it to one of their tracks. And it was around then that I had gone into a branch of W H Smith's on the King's Road. And I go into W H Smith's and they are playing Come On Pilgrim by Pixies.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:52Adam Buxton?

  Because you're a Pixies fan as well, right?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Yes, I mean, they're amazing. Trompe l'Mont was the first. So I started at the end and I distinctly remember hearing that they'd broken up. And I just was, I honestly, I just got the CD. You can't do that. I've just got into you. It's almost like you have your own consciousness and lives.

• 18:14Adam Buxton?

  You bastards.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  You can't.

• 18:16Adam Buxton?

  But then when I played the music, when I was out of the context of W H Smith's, I was quite intimidated by it. I just thought, I've gone above my pay grade here.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  You felt safe in W H Smith's, as do we all. And then outside of Smith's, it's dangerous.

• 18:32Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, because I was listening to this kind of thing. So here's a clip from around that time, Pixies on Dutch TV, and a very short blast of what they sound like.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  What does your mother think about your music?

• 18:47Adam Buxton?

  She's very, very proud.

• 19:13Adam Buxton?

  I just thought it might be a bit too much for young Buckles, who basically had only just come out of the Thompson Twins phase.

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 19:21Adam Buxton?

  And then I was dealing with that, and I took it back.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Stop it.

• 19:28Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  I'm going to say something that I haven't said out loud before. I took back "Pod" by The Breeders.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  I couldn't cope, it was too much. I'd gone, I'd travelled, I was, I'm from Ipswich. Okay, this needs to be, and I travelled down to London to buy it, and I just couldn't cope with it. I actually ended up going back to the same shop to buy it again. That was one of my most traumatic record purchases, because I couldn't go, and then I realised I was wrong and went back. And the only other really terrible experience, I bought "Hat Full of Hollow" by The Smiths vinyl. Got it home from a second-hand shop. I'm gonna tell all this story, some of it's gonna be in reverse, like Memento. So, I bought the vinyl, took it back, played it, all first side, very good. Turned it over, country and western music.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  And I went, "This is defective, this is not good." Went back to the shop, the second-hand shop, handed it over and said, "There's a problem with this record, it's only half Smiths, which is 50% insufficient." And then he took it and said, "Okay, thank you very much. Well, this is the original factory pressing of Hat Full of Hollow, and that's what they do, they press it on one side and on any old kind of junk, and then the other side will be country and western. So, I'll keep this and you can have your two pounds back."

• 20:55Adam Buxton?

  Oh, is that really true?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:59Adam Buxton?

  Oh, you dick!

• 21:01Speaker 02

  I know.

• 21:06Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 21:10Adam Buxton?

  Yes, please.

• 21:14Adam Buxton?

  Yep.

• 21:19Adam Buxton?

  Hey, welcome back. So that was a couple of moments from my onstage chat with Richard Iwaddy. And by the way, if you're wondering why I don't just play the whole recording from that live show, it's because there was a lot of video elements that wouldn't really work for audio only. And I think we did have a few technical problems that night as well, which interfered with some parts of the recording. Some of the music that we recorded was a bit distorted. And also with the Pixies songs, two of which Frank Black played with Richard, there's rights issues that means I can't play them in full. If you're curious to see how Richard and Frank Black sounded together, though,

• 22:02Adam Buxton?

  you'll find links in the description of today's podcast to a couple of video clips that I just filmed on my phone from the brief rehearsal that Frank and Richard did a few hours before the show. The first song that they played in front of the audience that night was "Hey" by the Pixies, which hopefully I'll be all right just playing you a short clip of. This is one of the bits that wasn't too badly distorted. So this is Frank Black on acoustic guitar and then Richard coming in with his Joey Santiago electric guitar parts.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Rock me, Richard.

• 23:06Adam Buxton?

  There you go. So that gives you an idea of what they sounded like on the night playing the Pixies stuff. But the day before the podcast show, I had met Frank Black in his dressing room at the Forum in Kentish Town, where Pixies were playing that night. And I recorded our short chat, with me talking Frank through how the podcast show at the Palladium might work. As you'll hear, one of the subjects that I thought we might discuss was the intersection of music and comedy. However, hearing how Charles felt about comedians who make music that isn't just straightforward musical comedy...

• 23:41Adam Buxton?

  Didn't really encourage me to tell him that I myself had been recording my own album. He was very diplomatic and I know that he absolutely loves people like Tim Heidecker and Matt Berry who make music. But I got the impression that he wasn't altogether convinced that people like me having a go at music is a great idea.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  I'm a big fan of Richard's. I've seen most of the programs and things that he's been associated with. My kids are all big Brit comedy fans.

• 24:13Adam Buxton?

  That's it, cool. Yeah, well, he's a very nice guy, Richard. I like him.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would imagine.

• 24:18Adam Buxton?

  And but he's a big music fan and he, you know, he went up on stage with Dinosaur Jr. Yeah. Played with them and.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  That's funny. He's my neighbor, the Jay.

• 24:29Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yes.

• 24:30Speaker 04

  Four doors down.

• 24:31Adam Buxton?

  That's funny. And yeah, he was in one of Richard's films called The Double. Anyway, so I'm kind of thinking in terms of it being a little bit theatrical and saying to Richard, I want to ask him about music. Anyway, he loves music. He's directed a lot of music videos. Show a couple of clips. He's directed videos for Arctic Monkeys and Vampire Wee and a Breeders' Clip recently. So we show a few clips of those and then I say, I know you're a Pixies fan. I am too. We exchange Pixies. How did you get into them and that kind of thing? And then I say to him, can you play any? And he's like, well, I can play the riff to Hey.

• 25:15Adam Buxton?

  So he has a go at that. And I say, are you gonna sing? He's like, no, I'm not. I can't sing. Are you gonna sing? I was like, no. And then.

• 25:23Speaker 04

  Hey!

• 25:24Adam Buxton?

  Exactly. So I sort of, at that point, I get you out, if that's not too.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, no, that's a view.

• 25:30Adam Buxton?

  And then you just sort of play it through and he'll play along with you. And then I was imagining you'd come down, sit with us. I guess I was thinking we could talk about when we first met, talk about my dad a little bit. I have a clip of you and he sitting and chatting about wine in nineteen ninety-eight. And then I found some of the rushes of the video that we did with him. I forgot that he he learnt Dog Gone, so he could sing it. And the audio is not very good because we didn't have him mic'd up or anything. We just wanted to use the lip sync. But he's out there in the middle of the street with cars rushing past, singing Dog Gone in quite a nice way. So I was gonna show a short clip of that.

• 26:10Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, sure. You gotta do that.

• 26:12Adam Buxton?

  And then a bit more chat. Thought we could talk possibly about like funny music. What would you talk about in that case? Like, do you like funny music?

• 26:22Speaker 04

  I do, and I think that there are people that do it well. And I think that there are people that love it so much. And they it's almost like they're in in some kind of a dilemma between doing it for real and also still trading in on their on their comedic sensibilities, right? And so they're kind of very in between, you know what I mean? I find that a lot with Tim Heidecker. He wants to be in a band, you know, he wants to do the thing. But because of his station, he is not quite allowed to. And so he pushes it right to the thing and like where you almost get to the point where like, well,

• 27:07Speaker 04

  is this still comedy music or are we just doing music here? You know what I mean?

• 27:13Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  And and like I and I feel like that sometimes they don't even know. Or it could be that they're not confused, but their his audience, me, whoever, is watching, well, I've just spent the last half hour laughing at your comedy. And now you're playing this really beautiful music like, you know, I'm I'm already in a certain mode. And so I'm kind of like trying to find the funny in the thing that you're doing. And maybe you're not even trying to be funny. You're trying to just be musical. Anyway, it's an interesting thing. I I think actors, of course, it's the same thing, you know, and it's the same thing, right? Musicians who maybe they like the idea of like, oh, acting and and and

• 27:51Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  being something in in front of a camera, you know, and on a stage. I understand being on a stage and you see them and you just go, oh. Ah.

• 28:03Adam Buxton?

  Don't do that.

• 28:03Speaker 04

  Wow. You really can't act, you know, and it's more than anything, I end up having a lot of respect for people when they're, you know, it's easy to say, to watch someone's performance, a comedic person, and say, oh, I didn't find that very funny, you know, I like this old stuff better, right? And, but I guess what a lot of people don't realize is how difficult it is to be funny, you know, and they just have no clue, or how difficult it is to act. Well, you're just up there saying words, right? I remember, um, what's his name, uh, Fight Club.

• 28:43Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yes, David Fincher.

• 28:44Speaker 04

  David Fincher. He called me up and said, I know you're not an actor, but, uh, doing this, uh, film about the Zodiac Killer, you know, and you have a physical resemblance to the Zodiac Killer, would you read for it, you know, no pressure? I said, fuck, all right. So like, I went and saw an acting coach, right, for an evening, just like, I have to read this thing tomorrow, I don't know what I'm doing, like, give me your best two pointers or whatever, you know? I went and bought the, the killer's boots at the Army Navy Supply Store, cause he was ex-Navy, and he, uh, I said, well, he would have worn these Navy boots or whatever, and I tried to be a, a method actor for five fucking minutes, you know?

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Like, get the boot, the Navy boots, and, and I went down there and see David Fincher was there, his producer, they were very nice, oh, we know you're not an actor, it's fine, just, all he has to do is just read, we just want to hear your voice, just read. And literally, it was like, uh, uh, and I was just like, I couldn't speak, I couldn't finish a sentence, I could not, uh, ooh, I'm sorry, and I completely fell apart in the most pathetic way. I wasn't even trying to act, I just wanted to get through the lines, and I could not do it. But I knew part of the reason was because it was a lot harder than I realized, and I didn't have a cocky attitude about it.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  I knew it was, I wasn't an actor, but I thought, well, I could read, I know how to read and to speak. I can do that. No, the whole context of it and everything, you're trying to read through this script while they're reading the other part, whatever, could not do it, could not do it, it was laughable. But musical comedy, I guess, is probably my station as a musician performer guy or whatever, that when I am confronted with musical comedy.

• 30:38Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  Or whatever, um, I, I'm probably a lot more, not judgmental, whatever, but I'm like the wrong audience to kind of totally feel that. Someone else who's not a musician and not a comedian, they look at that and they're just like, oh my God, two things that I love going on at the same time. But then you get, if you're a musician, you start to go, mm, it's kind of like if you were to go observe, you know, a musician try to be funny and be a comedian, you would go like, oh, I really love your music and oh.

• 31:20Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that didn't really feel like the perfect time to say, actually Frank, I've been recording some songs too. But right now, we are going to head back to the London Palladium on the 19th of March 2024. Frank Black has just sat down after playing Hey with Richard Iowady on guitar. As you'll hear, my own Frank, my eldest son, was in the house that night too. He'd helped me play a couple of jingles as he did a few times on that podcast tour. And he stayed on that night as a stagehand. It was lovely to have him there, despite the potentially awkward moment of witnessing

• 32:00Adam Buxton?

  his father confessing to his musical hero hesitatingly, that he may have, well, kind of named his son after him. Back at the end for a bit more waffle, but right now, back to the Palladium with Frank Black, or is it Black Francis or Charles Thompson? Let's find out.

• 32:21Adam Buxton?

  Now, how should I refer to you? Because you have many aliases. How do you wish to be referred to onstage tonight?

• 32:31Speaker 04

  Frank. We'll do Frank, because your son is Frank, too, right?

• 32:34Adam Buxton?

  Well, you know, the honest truth is that he's called Frank kind of because of you.

• 32:45Adam Buxton?

  I mean, it helped that it was a name I liked, anyway. You know what I mean? If your name was Turd Face, I still would have liked you, but I wouldn't have named my son after you. So it all, the stars aligned. So, yes, Frank, thank you so much for coming along tonight.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  Oh, it's been a pleasure.

• 33:04Adam Buxton?

  Oh, man.

• 33:05Speaker 04

  It's just, do you always play here at this place? This is nice.

• 33:08Adam Buxton?

  Yes, this is where I try stuff out. And then I do the main shows at the O2, generally. I find them impersonal, so this is like a sort of fun indie night for me.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  Frank?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Right on time.

• 33:30Adam Buxton?

  You can mind, great work, Frank.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  That's good. I think you can get one more bend in it.

• 33:46Adam Buxton?

  Hey, thank you, Frank.

• 33:48Speaker 04

  On his way.

• 33:51Adam Buxton?

  Now, we've met before, Frank.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 33:55Adam Buxton?

  Do you remember when the first time would have been?

• 33:57Speaker 04

  I think you turned up at my house in Los Angeles on 22141 Long dealia Street, West Hills, 91302, I think.

• 34:10Adam Buxton?

  There you go.

• 34:10Speaker 04

  Just came to me.

• 34:11Adam Buxton?

  Dressed as policemen?

• 34:13Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:13Adam Buxton?

  To go through your record collection for Vinyl Justice?

• 34:17Speaker 04

  That's the one, yeah.

• 34:19Adam Buxton?

  And you improvised the theme from Beatles About?

• 34:23Speaker 04

  I did?

• 34:25Adam Buxton?

  You hadn't heard of it, but you started saying, "Oh, watch out, Beatles are about. Oh, watch out, Beatles are about." I was ve- I was very pleased. And you also gave us some screaming lessons.

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:40Adam Buxton?

  Because on my 50th birthday, my wife had a surprise party for me, and she had assembled some of my musical friends, who had rehearsed a load of songs that they knew I really love. And one of the songs was "De Basa." And I stripped my throat out so badly, and I had a few shows that week and I had to cancel them, because I had, I had screamed my way through the best birthday I ever had, singing "De Basa." Can you give us an example for people unfamiliar with that track of what we're dealing with here?

• 35:14Speaker 04

  The shouting in it?

• 35:15Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just like, "Waaah!" You know, it's just a lot of, you know.

• 35:18Adam Buxton?

  How do you sing like that without immediately stripping your throat out?

• 35:23Speaker 04

  Well, the guy that taught me how to shout was my neighbor, and I used to deliver flowers for his flower shop. He was from Thailand. His name was Bob Samban Suk. And he used to be in a Thai band back in the day, I guess. His day would have been in the 1960s, I'm guessing. So, uh, I used to deliver flowers for him. But, uh, he knew that I liked the music. Did you ever deliver flowers?

• 35:53Adam Buxton?

  No. I mean, once to my wife on her birthday, but it was just the once.

• 35:59Speaker 04

  It's a terrible job, 'cause about one out of every five or six deliveries, you gotta go around to the funeral home.

• 36:06Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yes.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  You know how they deliver flowers at the funeral home? You have to find a secret door that's unlocked, 'cause you don't get a, a signature. You have to look for a room with flowers in it. And sometimes you don't find the room with the flowers in it, you find other rooms. And it's very stressful.

• 36:26Adam Buxton?

  Oh, man.

• 36:27Speaker 04

  So I don't recommend it.

• 36:30Speaker 04

  For anybody. But anyway, Bob, I used to deliver flowers, but he knew I liked the music, so I brought over my Beatles book to his studio and he said, we did a pick a Beatles song and I, he knew I liked the Beatles and we did Oh Darling in his little home studio. And he said, sing it like you hate that, you know, I don't want to say the word, but it was a bit frightening for me. I was only about fourteen or so, but he taught me how to shout. And so I'm very grateful to Bob, wherever he is today.

• 37:04Adam Buxton?

  Hmm. After our time in Los Angeles, when you were very welcoming to us and it was very exciting meeting you, after listening to your music all those years and then suddenly flipping through your CD collection and finding like, oh, he's got a lot of the same stuff as me. That was very satisfying. There was lots of Ramones and there was Beck was in there and Donovan was in there and all this sort of stuff that I didn't necessarily expect you to have. But it was good. And then, a couple of years later, or maybe just a year later or something, we met when you were in a band called Frank Black and the Catholics.

• 37:43Speaker 04

  That's right.

• 37:43Adam Buxton?

  And it was 1998. And we were doing our show, The Adam and Joe Show, and we had an idea that maybe we could get you together with my dad, who was part of our TV show, Nigel Buxton, AKA Bad Dad. We thought we'd sit you down, just in Joe's flat in Exmouth Market. And we, that's as far as we got, as far as planning it. And we just sat you both down. My dad had a bottle of wine that he was chugging away. And he was there in his suit and tie, aged 74 years old. And what did you make of it?

• 38:20Speaker 04

  I just figured that's how you did it over here in England, you know.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  With your dad and wine and all that and uh So I just kinda went along with it and it seemed fine. He was a very nice man, as I recall.

• 38:36Adam Buxton?

  I loved it because he was on his best behavior with you. Because I think he knew how much you meant to me. So whereas normally, he only had bad things to say about pretty much everything that I really liked. What are you listening to? What is this loathsome music you're listening to? But then you turned up and suddenly he was all soft and excited to be there. By the way, this footage never saw the light of day because it was mainly my dad talking about wine and some of his favorite roads in France and

• 39:16Speaker 02

  That's a Netflix special now.

• 39:20Adam Buxton?

  Anyway, and then years later when I got married, sorry, this has just been talking to Frank Black about all the nice things he's done and uh

• 39:29Speaker 05

  Memories.

• 39:30Adam Buxton?

  But when I got married, 2001, you were in town and I went to your rehearsal studios and you sang a song for my wife. My wife. And it was from maybe my favorite album in the world, which is your album Teenager of the Year, one of your solo records. And you sang a song called Calistan. It's a great song. I was wondering if you might sing that tonight?

• 39:55Speaker 05

  It would be my pleasure. See how the Calistan goes now?

• 40:01Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 40:03Speaker 05

  Been a while. So far, so good. I took three days to drive down one street. Radio on, tuned to the big fleet. Invisible planes are cracking the concrete. That's just what some people say. Hey, hey.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  I put down my blanket on cigarette butt beach.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Saw the old man, he was doing okay. He's making his last stand on old bottles and cans. Around there, Calisthen way.

• 41:04Speaker 05

  Hey, hey.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  It used to be sixteen lanes. It used to be Huawei. It used to be Mexican. It used to be a Spanish nuevo. Yeah, it used to be Navajo.

• 41:27Speaker 05

  It used to be Yippee-ye-ah. I don't know.

• 41:39Speaker 05

  Halfway point.

• 41:55Speaker 05

  I went in from the weather when I got wheezy. I play some Pachinko, I play Parcheesi.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  In Saint Anistale, making it breezy. In the valley of tar that once was LA.

• 42:17Speaker 05

  Hey, hey.

• 42:21Speaker 05

  And my best friend, he's the king of Kuroki.

• 42:26Speaker 05

  He struck up a chord and he took it away.

• 42:32Speaker 05

  Out of the pan. And into Japan. Around there, Calisthen way. Hey, hey.

• 42:49Speaker 05

  There used to be sixteen lanes. There used to be Juan Wayne, yes. There used to be Mexican. There used to be Mexico. There used to be Navajo.

• 43:09Speaker 05

  There used to be Yippee, yeah, I don't know.

• 43:26Adam Buxton?

  Calisthen.

• 43:29Speaker 04

  Just a typical wedding kind of a song, you know.

• 43:35Adam Buxton?

  I love it. And then we drove down, I'm just gonna carry on talking about my life. We ended up honeymooning in California and drove up Route One and listened to that. Anyway, thanks, man.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  Pleasure.

• 43:56Adam Buxton?

  Wait. Continue.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  You hear the collapse and there's nothing, and then you ask yourself. Woo hoo.

• 44:15Adam Buxton?

  Hey, welcome back, podcast. That was Charles Thompson, aka Frank Black, playing the track Calisthen, one of my favorites from Teenager of the Year, live on stage at the London Palladium in March 2024. Thank you so much to everyone who came along that night. It was a lovely audience, I remember. It was the first show of that podcast tour last year. And it was lovely to have Richard there and Frank Black. And very exciting to see them both play together and enjoy each other's company. Me and Richard sat dewy-eyed watching Frank Black playing that lovely version of Calisthen, a song that we both love.

• 44:58Adam Buxton?

  And the fact that my own Frank was there, too. He's also a big fan. I'm very grateful to everyone else who helped that night, too. There was Seamus, my producer. I'm grateful as well to Becca Bryers, who helped me out wrangling the live recordings. And... Also to all the people at Cross Town Promotions, especially Richard, Ben, Annalisa and Phil, and everyone at the Palladium that night. Thank you all.

• 45:32Adam Buxton?

  Wow, it's really a very beautiful afternoon here.

• 45:37Adam Buxton?

  I'm down near the road now, you can hear the traffic.

• 45:43Adam Buxton?

  But I can't see it from where I'm standing. All I can see is a field with gently swaying wheat beginning to grow.

• 45:56Adam Buxton?

  Autumnal trees over in the cops that I'm looking at.

• 46:03Adam Buxton?

  This is the last podcast I'm putting out before Christmas. In a few days, I'm meeting Joe and we're going to record our traditional Christmas podcast, keep it low key this year, face to face. Last couple of years, we've done the Christmas podcast in front of a live audience at the Royal Festival Hall. But this time, it's old school. That episode, of course, will be with you on Christmas Day. Speaking of Christmas Day, I pre-recorded a show the other day with Deb Grant, who co-hosts the New Music Fix Daily with Tom Ravenscroft on Six Music. But I believe she's sitting in for Lauren Laverne a few days over Christmas.

• 46:47Adam Buxton?

  And I don't know exactly when the show that I recorded with her is going to go out, but it might be Christmas Day. Anyway, look out for it. The format was that we were playing each other a selection of songs that were new to the other person.

• 47:05Adam Buxton?

  And talking about why we liked them. I got quite emotional at one point. But it was so nice meeting Deb. I hadn't met her before. I loved the songs that she picked for me. It was fun playing her, the ones that I picked for her. And I hope you will enjoy it. So look out for that show around Christmas on Six Music.

• 47:28Adam Buxton?

  Speaking of getting emotional, don't worry, I'll try and keep a lid on the wobbly voice, but talking to Frank Black there about my dad. And doing that doggone video, which is a really happy memory. It wasn't stress-free making the video, but I really love the result. I love the fact that my dad ended up being part of the Frank Black musical universe. Anyway, it's, as I speak, exactly ten years since he died. This is the kind of day he would have loved as well.

• 48:02Adam Buxton?

  Very beautiful but cold. Like my wife.

• 48:08Adam Buxton?

  Oh, come on. That was, in case you're listening, that was a joke. You're very beautiful and hot. I think she'd hate me saying that even more.

• 48:19Adam Buxton?

  But yeah, ten years. I was already doing the podcast.

• 48:25Adam Buxton?

  But a lot of other things were very different. Since then, I have talked about him a lot. Written about him in two books, particularly in Ramble book.

• 48:40Adam Buxton?

  And also a bit in I Love You Bye.

• 48:44Adam Buxton?

  But as regular listeners will know, he pops up a great deal in my conversations with my guests. And I think about him all the time. I think about mum all the time as well. But it's different. Dad relationship, that's a weird one. It's not a competition though, is it? I finished audiobooking Anthony Hopkins memoir the other day. I really enjoyed it. It's read by Kenneth Branagh. I mean, I guess I knew Kenneth Branagh is a good actor, but he knocks it out of the park. I suppose he is doing a Anthony Hopkins impression. And the first couple of minutes, I was a little bit worried.

• 49:28Adam Buxton?

  But actually, it's really good and not too extreme. He just does a brilliant job.

• 49:34Adam Buxton?

  And there's a lot of really moving stuff in there. I read a review that said, oh, it's quite melancholy. This book, I suppose it is in a way, it's a lot of stuff about mortality and regret and sadness over decisions that Anthony Hopkins made in his life and challenges that he's faced, personal challenges and lots of very interesting stuff about the craft of acting as well. He's one of my favorite actors, I think. I'd recommend it if you like his stuff. But there's a lot of, uh, you know, dad angst in that book. As there is in, I guess, most memoirs, isn't there? I don't think anyone's relationship with their dad

• 50:19Adam Buxton?

  or either of their parents is ever totally straightforward.

• 50:24Adam Buxton?

  I was lucky in so many ways with my parents and what they did for me.

• 50:30Adam Buxton?

  And yet, you know, you're always feeling like you could have been closer, you could have done things differently. You're angry at this, you're resentful at that, you're regretful at the other. And you miss them badly when they're gone and you wish so much that you had another chance just to just to sit down and tell them what you've been doing and ask them what they think about what's going on in the world and ask all the questions you never asked and give them a hug and say, thank you, I love you.

• 51:08Adam Buxton?

  But of course, the truth is that if you could, they'd be exactly the same and you'd probably have an argument or it'd just be a bit awkward like before. I don't know. Anyway, if you're listening and you're in a similar spot, if you're in the process of saying goodbye to your dad or maybe you have done recently, well, I'm sorry. And you'll be all right. There's actually a few rewards on the other side of it, let me tell you.

• 51:39Adam Buxton?

  Um, but in good ways and bad ways, it never quite goes away.

• 51:47Adam Buxton?

  Hey, come over here, hey.

• 51:51Adam Buxton?

  Good to see you. Thank you so much for listening and for coming back.

• 51:59Adam Buxton?

  Have I said all my other thank yous? Thanks to everyone at Acast. Thanks to Helen Green, she does the artwork. Thanks to Seamus, Becca Bryers, but thank you most of all for coming along. And until next time, we share the same sonic space. Maybe on another episode, or maybe on Christmas Day. Please go carefully, it's crazy out there. And in case it's useful, I love you. Bye!

• 52:37Adam Buxton?

  That was a long franked black one.