313. A Crime in the Digital Age - The Murder of Bianca Devins

On this episode, Payton and Garrett explore the heartbreaking case of Bianca Devins, a 17-year-old whose life was tragically cut short in a crime that unfolded both in real life and across the internet. Links: Netflix Video Every Monday @11am PST, 12pm MST, 2pm EST 1pm CST https://www.netflix.com/murderwithmyhusband Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case Sources: BBC.com - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49001706 USAToday.com - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/17/bianca-devins-death-posted-instagram-thats-not-story/1748601001/ Syracuse.com - https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2020/02/more-horrific-details-come-out-in-bianca-devins-murder-that-was-shared-online-to-the-world.html LawAndCrime.com - https://lawandcrime.com/federal-court/judge-dismisses-lawsuit-against-da-who-allegedly-sent-sex-and-murder-videos-of-17-year-old-bianca-devins-to-the-media/ CourtListener.com - https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60060872/1/estate-of-bianca-devins-v-oneida-county/ WKTV.com - https://www.wktv.com/archive/brandon-clark-sentenced-in-murder-of-17-year-old-bianca-devins/article_d1bdf090-7932-11ec-8d73-77f82ffcca9c.html CNN.com - https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/us/bianca-devins-killer-sentenced-trnd TheGuardian.com - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/17/bianca-devins-instagram-under-fire-over-shared-images-of-dead-teens-body WashingtonPost.com - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/16/bianca-devins-killing-photos-were-posted-instagram-by-suspect-brandon-clark-police-say/ Rollingstone.com - https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/bianca-devins-murder-brandon-clark-trial-video-951548/ Wikipedia.org - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Bianca_Devins CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bianca-devins-murder-violent-images-psychological-terrorism-48-hours/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Payton Moreland?

  You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Payton Moreland.

• 0:07Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm Garrett Moreland.

• 0:08Payton Moreland?

  And he's the husband.

• 0:09Garrett Moreland?

  And I'm the husband. Well, well, well, new merch. We got new merch. Got new merch. It's live. Yeah.

• 0:18Payton Moreland?

  We did take pictures in the merch.

• 0:20Garrett Moreland?

  We took pictures. We like, we like every drop, but we took pictures. We're trying to be better at content when it comes to that. So we took pictures. So if you want to see what you would look like before you buy it, you can see what we look like with it on.

• 0:33Payton Moreland?

  Here's the issue. Our merch has become so redundant because it's all good. So it's like every single drop, I, I feel like I'm like, no, this is like a really good drop. Like it's really cute. It's really trendy. It's good fits. Like we've made sure they're good quality. How many times can I say over and over again? You know what I mean?

• 0:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, we're, and we're trying to get better at content. Let's be honest.

• 0:55Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 0:56Garrett Moreland?

  The goal for us. I'm also having a horrible day. Having a horrible day. So if you want to go buy merch, go buy merch. I don't know. I could.

• 1:06Payton Moreland?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:09Garrett Moreland?

  Hmm. It's fine. I'll be okay. That's my 10 seconds. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. Truly, we love you guys and we appreciate the support, whether you're listening on audio, on whatever platform you're listening on, or whether you're watching on Netflix. We love the support. We appreciate it. Thank you for allowing us to do this. We're glad that it's entertaining for you guys and let's get right into this week's case.

• 1:38Payton Moreland?

  Our sources for this episode are bbc.com, usatoday.com, syracuse.com, lawandcrime.com, courtlistener.com, wktv.com, CNN, The Guardian, Washington Post, rollingstone.com, and CBSnews.com. Just a warning, this episode contains discussions of suicide, suicidal ideation, and the sexual assault and murder of a minor, so please listen with care. Nowadays, many of us share our entire lives with the internet. We celebrate our little wins, our adorable families, our happy vacations. But some people share their losses too, whether that's a post dedicated to a lost pet, a tough time we're going through emotionally, or even when we're

• 2:23Payton Moreland?

  struggling to just make ends meet. We turn to the internet for support and for understanding. But what we don't ever expect is for our own deaths to be shared on social media too. And I'm not talking about an obituary, or an old photo, or even a true crime podcast. I'm talking about your very last breath. The exact moment when life comes to an end. It's not something anyone should have to see or experience. Not the victim, the family, the friends. But in today's case, one young woman's life wasn't just taken from her. It was broadcast on the internet for everyone to see.

• 3:06Payton Moreland?

  And the battle that was fought after was something that feels so dystopian. It makes you wonder what the world is coming to. Because when death can just be exploited on the internet, it raises the question. Is anything in this world truly off limits? So today, I want to take you to upstate New York, to a town called Utica. This is about an hour east of Syracuse. Where in 2019, we get to meet 17-year-old Bianca Michelle Devins. Now Bianca spent her entire life in the Utica area. But unlike most teenagers, she actually isn't that eager to get out of Dodge.

• 3:51Payton Moreland?

  She's super close with her 15-year-old sister Olivia and her mom, 35-year-old Kim. Now Kim got pregnant with Bianca when she was Bianca's age, a 17-year-old high school student. It happened just a few months after she had met Bianca's dad, Mike. But for Kim, there was no question of whether or not she wanted to Raised this baby. She always knew that she wanted to be a mom. She figured, okay, even though I'm seventeen, now's my chance. So Bianca was born on October 2nd, 2001, and her sister Olivia came just two years after that. And meanwhile, Kim and Mike actually

• 4:31Payton Moreland?

  tried to make it work until 2010. All of this wasn't easy for Bianca's mom, Kim, though. She filed several domestic incident complaints over the years. And when Mike started to take his aggression out on their daughters, Kim finally drew the line and she let him go for good in 2015. Now, it definitely opened a wound for Bianca as she came into her teenage years. She felt abandoned by her father, but it also made her closer with her sister and her mother. At the same time, though, Bianca found plenty of distracting hobbies that helped her

• 5:11Payton Moreland?

  grow into her own as her home life was kind of going through this. She loved the band Nirvana, manga and anime and making art. The kids in her school said she was a shining light. One kid who was always bullied in her earth science class said Bianca was the only student who was actually nice to him and spent time getting to know him. She dedicated her free time to helping counsel other students who were overcoming mental health issues. And through that, she realized that she actually eventually wanted to get into psychology, mainly because Bianca had struggled herself with

• 5:51Payton Moreland?

  mental health issues in the past. According to her mom, Kim, Bianca first showed signs of mental health issues back in middle school. Kim said it was during that time that Bianca began losing interest in all activities and was no longer the extroverted kid she used to be. Suddenly Bianca had social anxiety and became more of a loner at school.

• 6:14Payton Moreland?

  That was when she could be convinced to go. Her mother said she had developed some separation anxiety, which then around the age of 13 turned into depression. And by that point, Bianca had been seeing a therapist for some time, but things get more complicated when she switched from private to public school in ninth grade. That was when Bianca's behavior became more erratic. She would come up with stories about her ethnicity and background that weren't necessarily true. She would talk about being on the autism spectrum, though she had never been diagnosed. She became extremely triggered by loud noises and shouting.

• 6:56Payton Moreland?

  She would sometimes just not respond to friends for weeks at a time. And eventually Bianca was finally diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder and then borderline personality disorder in 2018. She got this after her anxiety got so bad that she was refusing to leave the house. But as a result of that isolation, Bianca had found communities in other ways, primarily through means that didn't require her to leave her home. Meaning she had turned to the internet for social connection. It was there that shy, sweet Bianca started to play with her identity. She created profiles on Discord, 4chan, Reddit, Tumblr, and Instagram,

• 7:40Payton Moreland?

  where she grew a modest but not unimpressive amount of a few thousand followers. And eventually she found her aesthetic and cosplayed online with colorful makeup, brightly colored hair in this combo of emo anime goth style. The term used to describe her in a lot of the sources was an e-girl, which can have a derogatory or sexualized context. But for Bianca, I think it was just a form of expressionism, a way to bring her art into her style. And through this, Bianca actually amassed a larger following on 4chan. This is what's known as a more male-centered site that can attract what people online call orbiters.

• 8:24Payton Moreland?

  And these are users who have a somewhat parasocial relationship with girls like Bianca.

• 8:31Garrett Moreland?

  Is 4chan still used? Do you know?

• 8:33Payton Moreland?

  I'm sure.

• 8:34Garrett Moreland?

  I don't, I don't.

• 8:36Payton Moreland?

  I mean, I never used it.

• 8:37Garrett Moreland?

  Like Reddit's already, Reddit's already crazy enough? Can't imagine what 4chan looks like.

• 8:43Payton Moreland?

  Well, you have these orbiter, orbiters who have this parasocial relationship. These orbiters are also known to be obsessive and they sometimes have a history of threatening the young women on these sites with violence, stalking, or other threats, which was how Bianca came to have a love-hate relationship with this community. In a way, she had found some acceptance and in other ways, she found real-life danger. For example, when Bianca was just about 15 years old, she met an 18-year-old on 4chan and the two eventually started dating.

• 9:24Payton Moreland?

  But there was at least one incident where he sexually assaulted and drugged Bianca and then actually published a video of the assault on Discord. Now, if you were listening to this and you were like, "This is insane." This is dark parts of the internet that like fully exist, like-

• 9:45Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, it happens all the time.

• 9:46Payton Moreland?

  Fully exist. There are full pages of guys who post videos of their, the sexual assaults they commit for other guys who-

• 9:53Garrett Moreland?

  Rapes.

• 9:54Payton Moreland?

  They trade videos back and forth of their own wives. Like, there's full forms of like men who film their wives without their wives knowing.

• 10:02Garrett Moreland?

  Of your own wife is, that's kinda nuts.

• 10:05Payton Moreland?

  And then they all just share it. So-

• 10:06Garrett Moreland?

  That's nuts.

• 10:07Payton Moreland?

  I know this might be sounding wild to you, but when Bianca entered into this world, this is like, not that outrageous.

• 10:16Garrett Moreland?

  It's normal to them.

• 10:17Payton Moreland?

  It's normal to the people in this world.

• 10:19Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 10:20Payton Moreland?

  And again, like I said, a lot of the people orbiting this site are not necessarily there for the, for good reasons. Now, after this happened, Bianca and her mother actually went to the police to report the crime, but then this boyfriend threatened suicide and Bianca was like, "That's it. I'm not going forward with the investigation." Now, whether or not that video was removed from Discord, I don't know, but I can tell you this. It was an omen of what was to come. And it also didn't help the circumstances surrounding Bianca's own mental health. After that, she began telling counselors that she was experiencing suicidal ideation.

• 11:03Payton Moreland?

  And then she was admitted to a psychiatric facility for the next month. And Kim said Bianca really seemed to like it there. She felt like it was helping. But when she wasn't in the facility, things were difficult for Bianca and her family. She ran away from home on more than one occasion, sometimes to be with that same ex-boyfriend, who she was still like in a toxic, somewhat relationship with. At one point, she was even placed under a persons in need of supervision hold and given an ankle monitor to wear under house arrest. But then she found a way to cut it off and then run away again. So it's safe to say that into her teenage years,

• 11:46Payton Moreland?

  Bianca had really taken a turn down a treacherous path. And I think a lot of teenagers explore and rebel and try to figure out, you know, who they are and what they want. But Bianca's especially just seemed to be really intense and kind of maneuver into some dark places. By the fall of 2018, Bianca was back in treatment, working on her mental health again. And when she came home in February of 2019, it seemed like Bianca was on a great path. She was excited about finally graduating high school that spring. She was planning to stay nearby for college, hoping to attend Mohawk Valley Community College.

• 12:31Payton Moreland?

  That's just 15 minutes away from her house. And again, she still wanted to go into psychology. For her, it was important to keep close contact with her family, have a place where she could come home to when she needed it. But everything changed for Bianca when that April or May, right before her graduation, before her life was finally going to turn around for the better. She met a guy on Instagram. He was a 21-year-old Lyft driver from the Syracuse area named Brandon Clark.

• 13:07Payton Moreland?

  Keep in mind, Bianca is still in high school. Brandon was also someone who was chronically online. But he'd also experienced his fair share of trauma as a kid, according to some sources. When he was about 12 years old, his father held his mother at knife point for 10 hours because he believed she was cheating on him. After that, Brandon's father was sent to prison while his mother was arrested on separate charges, causing Brandon to be in and out of foster care. But when Bianca finally met Brandon in real life, after meeting him on Instagram and introduced him to her family, he did seem like a put together young man, despite the fact that he was 21 and she was still in high school.

• 13:52Payton Moreland?

  Kim said he was charming and polite. He spoke to her candidly about his experiences in the foster care system. Bianca really seemed to have found a good friend in Brandon. You know, they shared a lot of interests from anime, online world to the same type of music. The only thing that worried Kim at the beginning was that Brandon seemed to have pretty strong feelings for Bianca and she didn't necessarily return them. Bianca is insisting to everyone that they're just friends, but Brandon is openly calling Bianca his girlfriend.

• 14:29Garrett Moreland?

  Okay, interesting.

• 14:30Payton Moreland?

  Everyone says Bianca was clear with him about being platonic. She was getting ready to start a new chapter in the fall. She was wanting to go to college. They were saying she was just a little scared to have another guy in her life, to be tied down before she's really trying to take this next big step. Brandon is aware of this, but it doesn't seem to matter to him. He hoped, he wished that Bianca would change her mind, which was why he went to great lengths to try and win her over. He would drive her and her sister anywhere they wanted to go, even though he lived about an hour away with his aunt. And he would buy them alcohol because he was 21.

• 15:12Payton Moreland?

  He would stay out all night with Bianca if she wanted, even if that meant that he would miss work the next day. He even got not one, but two tattoos dedicated to Bianca.

• 15:24Garrett Moreland?

  Oh no, this is. Oh no.

• 15:27Payton Moreland?

  Brandon just really seemed like someone who had a huge crush on Bianca.

• 15:34Garrett Moreland?

  It's more than a crush, yeah.

• 15:35Payton Moreland?

  But I mean, it's also just like everyone around her is like, oh, this guy just loves her. How sweet. Like, it wasn't like they were red flags going off. This guy's obsessed with her. He's controlling her.

• 15:47Garrett Moreland?

  Should be going up, but maybe it's because he isn't controlling her.

• 15:51Payton Moreland?

  Yeah, it's more like he just has a really big crush on her.

• 15:54Garrett Moreland?

  Love bombing the, you know what out of her. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support and for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too.

• 16:20Payton Moreland?

  Women inherit a lot of unwritten rules. Be ambitious, but not intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time for yourself. Have it all together, but don't look like you're trying too hard. And I have definitely fallen into all of these traps. But if you have been wanting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. If you don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month.

• 16:52Garrett Moreland?

  And Peyton and I are big advocates for therapy. Give it a try. Life can be crazy. There's a lot going on. Like we were talking about, sometimes it feels like you need to have everything figured out. You don't. Go talk to someone, go see what's going on. Visit betterhelp.com/husband to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp, H E L P dot com slash husband.

• 17:13Payton Moreland?

  All right, guys, we are getting into a sponsor and it is one of my favorites, Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? The sweater that just somehow works with everything, the jeans you know are always gonna fit? That bag you carry everywhere? Well, that is Quince in my closet, okay? All of my Quince products. Have become my staples, which is why I highly, highly recommend going to Quince's website, checking everything out. It is the quality. It is the quality that sets them apart. I mean, you have the price that they've been able to cut out the middlemen and work directly

• 17:53Payton Moreland?

  with factories. So it is cheaper, but the quality of Quince items, I have had them for years. And again, I continue to reach for them time and time again. I'm talking loungewear, silk skirts, cashmere sweaters, and not to mention they sell baby stuff. Okay. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And guys, at the very end, when Quince asks you where you heard about them, please, please, please just let them know Murder With My Husband. It is the best way to support the show. It lets them know that you heard

• 18:35Payton Moreland?

  about it here and it would mean a ton. Again, if you've never shopped on Quince, go take a look and then let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. So when Bianca asked Kim if she could go to a concert with Brandon in July of 2019, just two weeks after she graduated high school, Kim was like, yeah, go. The concert was set for July 13th and Bianca was extremely excited because this was the first show her mother had given her permission to, to go to alone. In fact, Kim said that she felt more comfortable knowing Brandon was going to be with Bianca because he was kind. He had earned her trust by that point. She knew that he would take care of Bianca. So that afternoon, Brandon

• 19:17Payton Moreland?

  picked Bianca up and they headed towards the city for what was going to be a long, at least four hour drive. And as the night wound down, Bianca texted her mother that the concert was over and they were going to start making the long trip back. Now, Kim probably went to sleep shortly after that, thinking she would wake up to find Bianca at the breakfast table tomorrow. But that was not the case. Instead, around 7:30 a.m. the next morning, July 14th, there was a knock on Kim's door. And it was the Utica Police who wanted to know if Kim had seen her daughter. Now, at this point, Kim's like, okay, so Bianca didn't come home.

• 20:01Payton Moreland?

  I'm, no, I haven't seen her. The cops are here. Her heart is racing. She just assumed that maybe Bianca had just broken their agreement to come straight home and had maybe like stayed the night. But now Bianca's cellphone was going straight to voicemail. And then police are like, okay, well, we need to tell you why we're here. They said earlier that morning, they had received a flood of 911 reports. Because around 6:03 a.m., a message was posted to Bianca's Discord account.

• 20:37Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 20:37Payton Moreland?

  Remember, she's very active on here. She has amassed some followers. It's a pretty, a pretty heavy group. And this message read, sorry, F-word, Earth.

• 20:49Garrett Moreland?

  Got it.

• 20:50Payton Moreland?

  You're gonna have to find-

• 20:51Garrett Moreland?

  Sorry, F-ers.

• 20:52Payton Moreland?

  Oh, thank you.

• 20:53Garrett Moreland?

  You're welcome.

• 20:54Payton Moreland?

  You're gonna have to find somebody else to orbit. Remember, orbit is like someone you follow, you're obsessed with, you have a parasocial relationship with.

• 21:05Garrett Moreland?

  Are they saying that she posted this, or it was posted to her account?

• 21:09Payton Moreland?

  They don't think she posted it.

• 21:10Garrett Moreland?

  Well, no, but it did it. Sorry, I'm saying, did it come from her account?

• 21:13Payton Moreland?

  Yes.

• 21:14Garrett Moreland?

  Got it. So obviously, yeah, okay.

• 21:17Payton Moreland?

  Well, here's the thing. The message had a picture with it, like a post. And the post is a picture of Bianca with her throat slashed and her face covered in blood.

• 21:30Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my.

• 21:32Payton Moreland?

  So the police show up hoping this is fake.

• 21:34Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, that is.

• 21:35Payton Moreland?

  Like this was just an online stunt.

• 21:37Garrett Moreland?

  Awful.

• 21:39Payton Moreland?

  But then her mom's like, yeah, she never came home. She's not at her phone's going to voice. Well, we don't know where she is. And now this picture. It probably is real.

• 21:46Garrett Moreland?

  What is wrong with people?

• 21:48Payton Moreland?

  As her friends started to wake up that day and check their social media. I mean, yes, they're all into this online world, but that doesn't make murder. Okay, you know?

• 21:58Garrett Moreland?

  Well, it also doesn't mean that they're into killing.

• 22:00Payton Moreland?

  Exactly. So the image and the caption does begin circulating. Many did think it was a prank, but others were like, no, this is way too far. This is pushing the boundaries. We're calling police to like, check in on her. But as officers are speaking with Kim, there is another call coming in over the radio.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  911, what is the emergency? Uh, my name is Brandon. Um, the victim is Bianca Michelle Devins. I'm going to kill myself.

• 22:27Payton Moreland?

  So dispatchers are like, okay, what's going on? Like they try to keep Brandon on the phone to pinpoint his location. To which he says, quotes, I'm not going to stay on the phone for long because I still need to do the suicide part of the murder suicide.

• 22:43Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 22:44Payton Moreland?

  But he called 911. Eventually though, he reveals where he is on a dead end road, actually not that far from Bianca's house. So a team of officers rushed to the spot where they find Brandon still alive. He has a knife and a gun. He's threatening himself and he does start stabbing himself.

• 23:05Garrett Moreland?

  Oh my gosh, dude.

• 23:07Payton Moreland?

  Um, in the neck.

• 23:08Garrett Moreland?

  This is insane.

• 23:09Payton Moreland?

  He had like a tarp under him, like it was set up. He lays down on the tarp and then he takes a selfie on the tarp and posts it to social media. The caption of it says like ashes to ashes. But as Brandon's doing this, surrounded by police, but you have to understand the reason police aren't rushing in is like, this is a like a like a standoff kind of because he does have a gun. And they're, they are worried he's going to hurt himself, but also them. They don't know the situation they're completely in.

• 23:39Garrett Moreland?

  You have no idea.

• 23:40Payton Moreland?

  And so he lays down, he's surrounded by police on the tarp, but police have also noticed. And this is another reason they didn't rush in is Brandon is not alone on this tarp, this green tarp that he's laying on now. Has like a patch of dark hair sticking out from underneath it.

• 24:00Garrett Moreland?

  Oh yeah, so Bianca's body is there as well.

• 24:02Payton Moreland?

  Um, and here's the thing, like they're like, is this person alive? Is this a hostage? Is this beyond like they know they're not really sure what they're dealing with. Either way, they move in, there's a struggle. They do get Brandon in handcuffs. They remove the tarp and underneath they find a body of a young woman. And of course it is 17 year old Bianca Devins. And before Kim can even hear the news of Brandon's arrest, her daughter Olivia sees the photo circulating online. You have to understand the police did not show.

• 24:40Garrett Moreland?

  Which.

• 24:40Payton Moreland?

  Which, why would you? They're like, you don't need to see this photo.

• 24:44Garrett Moreland?

  And I feel like this does happen a lot with social media now where, yeah, there'll be a photo that no one should see. Uh, where like parents find out on social media before.

• 24:56Garrett Moreland?

  Anywhere, it's just. It's hard, it's really hard. Um, there's so many cases. I mean, I think the Gabby Petito cases, probably one of the most, I guess, uh, talked about social media cases. Same thing with like the Idaho case and everything.

• 25:11Payton Moreland?

  Well, I was just gonna say with the Idaho case, like someone just requested to get the crime scene photos released, which is a right, like citizens do have a right to request it if it's available. Um, but the issue is, is they then take those and they're not posted on like, you know, some true, they're posted on TikTok.

• 25:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 25:33Payton Moreland?

  And you have family members who are on TikTok and are swiping and then you see the, and listen, this is a, this is a hard situation.

• 25:40Garrett Moreland?

  It's a hard, it's, it's, it's, it's hard, it's hard.

• 25:43Payton Moreland?

  Citizens do have the right to understand what's going on around them. Like you, we have the right to understand what other human beings are doing.

• 25:51Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 25:51Payton Moreland?

  Um, but at the same time, there is that just thinking about someone else, thinking about, in this case, the police didn't show her mom the photo because there was no need. They explained there was a photo post online. She looked like she was in a, like not a good situation. We're wondering if you've seen her, but then her sister Olivia gets online and sees this photo of her dead sister before they even know what's going on, like they don't even know that he's been arrested.

• 26:18Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I know there's so many gray lines everywhere. I mean, I think it's part of it is why like when we do these cases, obviously. Partly for entertainment, but also to bring awareness. And we try to be as respectful as possible. It's just, it's, it's hard. It's.

• 26:32Payton Moreland?

  It is. It really.

• 26:34Garrett Moreland?

  There's, there's a lot to it. I mean, but you have like news, you have your news sources and you have articles and it's just what's it's part of the world and social media these days.

• 26:44Payton Moreland?

  Well, here's the deal. We can't live in a world where everything bad is kept secret.

• 26:48Garrett Moreland?

  No.

• 26:48Payton Moreland?

  Because that's not safe for anyone. Like everyone needs to understand the dangers out there. They need to understand what people are capable of. They need to understand how to look for red flags, psychological things. Honestly, this is just an unfortunate situation. Like, like I said at the beginning, no one, no one should ever be scrolling Tik Tok and see a picture of their dead.

• 27:08Garrett Moreland?

  Correct. That's horrible.

• 27:09Payton Moreland?

  That's not.

• 27:10Garrett Moreland?

  That's absolutely horrible. Horrible.

• 27:11Payton Moreland?

  I mean, even in the Idaho four, everything's blurred.

• 27:14Garrett Moreland?

  Yes.

• 27:14Payton Moreland?

  In these pictures and that doesn't, I'm not saying that that makes it perfect, but.

• 27:18Garrett Moreland?

  I mean, it makes a difference.

• 27:19Payton Moreland?

  It does.

• 27:20Garrett Moreland?

  Makes a huge difference.

• 27:21Payton Moreland?

  It does.

• 27:21Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 27:22Payton Moreland?

  This is obviously going to haunt this sister, but with Brandon now in custody, already being charged with murder. The question isn't so much a whodunit rather than why. I mean, he's, he's, he clearly did it. He clearly said this was a murder suicide. He murdered her. And then was gonna commit suicide, but called the cops first. So I don't actually think he was wanting to commit suicide. We're wondering what happened leading up to this moment. Well, it turns out there is so much more to this story. It was clear that Brandon was way more into Bianca than she was into him. And like everyone in her life said, it seemed innocent enough.

• 28:03Payton Moreland?

  It seemed like he just had a major crush on her, but here's the thing. Like I said, she told him their relationship was purely platonic. Which might be where things started to fester for Brandon. I mean, immediately she rejected him, not even like a, oh, let's just stay and see. Immediately she was like, no, this is platonic.

• 28:24Garrett Moreland?

  There's a difference between liking someone and being enthralled in, enthralled to someone's life and so on and so forth, and liking what they do and their content. Like these celebrities that have actual like stalkers where they think they have like a right to their lives or they get so obsessed where they. Already get into their houses. It's dangerous.

• 28:46Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 28:46Garrett Moreland?

  Like it's crazy. And it's obviously what what happened here to an extent and it's pretty wild.

• 28:52Payton Moreland?

  Mm hmm. So Brandon invited Bianca to the concert, offered to take care of her. Maybe he thought, okay, this concert, our one on one alone time, alone time, four hours away from her home in the car together. Maybe he thought this was a chance to like make it more than platonic for her. But instead, she proved to him that he definitely wasn't the one she was interested in. Because during the concert, Bianca met up with another guy. So he invited her, she said yes, and then told another guy, hey, I'm gonna be at this concert with a friend, because she's clearly told Brandon, this is platonic. So the other guy comes up.

• 29:38Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, that's kind of all it pissed him off and.

• 29:42Payton Moreland?

  Does this suck? Yeah.

• 29:45Garrett Moreland?

  Sure. Welcome to life.

• 29:46Payton Moreland?

  Welcome to life.

• 29:47Garrett Moreland?

  Welcome to life.

• 29:48Payton Moreland?

  If you can't handle being told no, go back to preschool.

• 29:52Garrett Moreland?

  You can't handle a little rejection, I don't know what to tell you.

• 29:55Payton Moreland?

  Exactly. So this is another person that she had met online. This guy, his name is Alex. Now Bianca had had a crush on Alex for a while. She was like, I just like him. He's perfect. I'm literally in love with him. So Bianca was looking forward to that concert, not just for the music and definitely not because she was going with Brandon, but because she knew Alex was gonna be there. During the show, she introduces Alex to Brandon. This is how platonic she thinks this is.

• 30:26Garrett Moreland?

  Okay.

• 30:27Payton Moreland?

  She comfortably is like, yay, this is my friend Alex. And after Brandon disappeared to get rolling papers, he returned to find Bianca and Alex kissing.

• 30:40Payton Moreland?

  Alex said that after this point, like when he saw, he came up on them kissing, Brandon became cold and nasty to them. But when Bianca got in Brandon's car for the long ride home around 10:00 PM, things got much worse. Bianca texted Alex because she was picking up on Brandon's like cold behavior and said, "I think he saw me kiss you." So she's clearly like, "Oh no, he's upset."

• 31:12Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Payton Moreland?

  She's picking up on Brandon's behavior that like he's upset and now she's texting Alex being like, "Shoot, like I think that I hurt his feelings." Which became clear when Brandon picks a fight with Bianca in the car. He tells her he felt like she had used him to get to the show, just to meet up with another guy. Eventually though, things seemed to kind of calm down because apparently Bianca fell asleep on the long ride back. But when they get close, instead of bringing Bianca home to her house, Brandon turned off onto that dead end road. He then fixed his phone, like up on the dashboard, pressed record,

• 31:56Payton Moreland?

  and then woke Bianca up and sexually assaulted her on camera in the car when she thinks they were just going home.

• 32:04Garrett Moreland?

  Okay. Oh, this is, this is horrible.

• 32:07Payton Moreland?

  Now, in total, he made five videos this night and each video lasted about a minute or two. So he didn't just keep the camera rolling. But then about 30 minutes later, he takes another video and this time he's accusing Bianca of basically being unfaithful to him. And then as the video is rolling, he begins stabbing her as she's begging for her life in the car.

• 32:35Garrett Moreland?

  I can't like this stuff. This is like, I would say this is probably why I hate true crime. Like I just cannot comprehend what is wrong with people. Like I cannot comprehend it. I don't care. Honestly, I don't care. I don't care what you have going on in your life. I don't care what's going on in your mind doing something like this. I just, I don't care. Like I just don't comprehend it. You're a horrible person.

• 33:01Payton Moreland?

  Here's the thing, like, we've seen people, you know, video or take evidence of their crimes and a lot of time it's just for them to revisit their crime, right? Like,

• 33:12Garrett Moreland?

  True, yeah.

• 33:13Payton Moreland?

  He wasn't even videoing these things just for himself because the second, like from there, he begins posting to all of his social media accounts to all of his sick and gross, dirty friends. One story showed a photo of the New York State thruway with the caption, "Here comes hell. It's redemption," right? Shortly after that, he posts a blurry photo, which I think went to his feed that showed a bloody torso.

• 33:40Garrett Moreland?

  I also would say that I pro, I mean, I could be wrong. It's probably, he's probably watching this type of content.

• 33:47Payton Moreland?

  A hundred percent. A hundred, this is what I'm saying. This is like a-

• 33:50Garrett Moreland?

  This is something he's sick and twistedly into.

• 33:54Payton Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 33:54Garrett Moreland?

  Like, it's not just like, oh, let me just do this. Like, no. It's a thing. He's watched it. He's-

• 34:01Payton Moreland?

  Just find an episode of Law and Order SVU that has to do with the dark web and you'll realize that like-

• 34:06Garrett Moreland?

  Granted, that's not like-

• 34:07Payton Moreland?

  No, I know, but even they cover things about like these twisted groups online.

• 34:11Garrett Moreland?

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• 34:17Payton Moreland?

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• 34:58Payton Moreland?

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• 35:18Garrett Moreland?

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• 35:31Payton Moreland?

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• 36:14Payton Moreland?

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• 36:59Payton Moreland?

  And then he posted the image on her Discord.

• 37:04Payton Moreland?

  It was very clear Bianca's dead body with the message, sorry effers, you're gonna have to find somebody else to orbit, which is just like gross, like the disrespect on top of that. He then continued posting to Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, other social media sites. And after that, he made phone calls to his family, saying goodbye. He called his grandmother, left her voicemail, called his brother in Alaska, his aunt who he lived with at the time, and then like, pretends to kill himself, but calls police first to make sure that they-

• 37:36Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, poor me. Let me call my family.

• 37:38Payton Moreland?

  Find himself.

• 37:39Garrett Moreland?

  Get out of here, dude.

• 37:39Payton Moreland?

  I'm like, bro.

• 37:41Garrett Moreland?

  Get out of here. Like, the, I just, I just don't feel bad at all.

• 37:46Payton Moreland?

  I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say, but like, he clearly wanted the cops-

• 37:50Garrett Moreland?

  This case is kinda pissing me off.

• 37:52Payton Moreland?

  He wanted the cops to intervene. You know what I mean? Like, he wanted to walk the walk and make it seem like-

• 37:58Garrett Moreland?

  I could, yeah, I see what you're saying.

• 37:59Payton Moreland?

  But like, he had zero plans to-

• 38:04Garrett Moreland?

  Honestly, he's trying to make himself seem like a victim at this point.

• 38:07Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. After his arrest, Brandon was brought to the hospital, treated for his wounds. And the following day, he was formally charged with second degree murder. However, the more investigators dig into Brandon's life, the more they realize, which is kind of like what Garrett was talking about, this was not a spur of the moment decision. This wasn't a murder of passion done in the heat of the moment that he just like came up with in his mind. This wasn't second degree murder. This was well thought out, premeditated, planned, and Brandon was a lot more disturbed than he ever let on. So, early on in his arrest, Brandon began writing letters to a vlogger from prison, saying that he had blacked out after the concert. He had no memory of what had happened that night. And this might have

• 38:50Payton Moreland?

  been on the advice of his attorney, so he could try and make it look like he was insane. But the reality was, there was evidence that Brandon had been planning this before that day ever came. So, the blackout excuse doesn't really work. For starters, when Brandon was texting and saying his goodbyes to people, he told his aunt that there was a will in the top of his dresser. What 21-year-old has a will? Investigators also learned how truly obsessed Brandon was with Bianca. He had searched for images of her repeatedly online. Definitely to the point of stalking, he took screenshots of all of their conversations and like saved them in like a folder. As I mentioned, he got tattoos for her.

• 39:31Payton Moreland?

  What I didn't share was that he got the first one just a week after they met in person. When he went to a graduation party, he like showed all her friends. He was like, look, I got this for her.

• 39:42Payton Moreland?

  And I mean, now, looking back, that seems like ownership or power, like some type of I have this and you don't thing. But according to a jailhouse diary taken from Brandon's cell, he got extremely mad at Bianca about a week before the murder when he saw another guy show up on her phone. The was the ex-boyfriend who um she tried to like take that case to and after this, Brandon is like, are you cheating on me? And she's like, we're not in a relationship. Like, I'm not cheating on you. Still, as a way to make Brandon feel better, she then added him to her Discord server, which meant

• 40:27Payton Moreland?

  he then had all the time to go through her complete history on Discord as well. And that's when he saw there were a few guys who had been asking Bianca for nude photos. And investigators think this is when his obsession with her really escalated. Brandon realized he had a lot of competition for Bianca when he had access to her Discord and realized like what was happening over there. And he decided if he couldn't have her, well, then no one else could either. Turns out, he had also done multiple internet searches before Bianca's death on how to kill someone.

• 41:00Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, my God.

• 41:01Payton Moreland?

  Quote, how to choke someone out. How do you hit the artery to kill someone? How do you stage a hanging? And then two days before Bianca was killed, Brandon had made a list in his notes app on his phone for how he would stage a crime scene, which police noted in their report when they found Brandon. He had spray painted a phrase at the crime scene that read, may you never forget me. And bought that spray paint and put it in his car days before.

• 41:33Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah, I mean, so it sounds like he's gonna get charged with first degree murder.

• 41:36Payton Moreland?

  Police later learn this was a phrase, actually, from a series of Japanese comic books that he and Bianca loved called Pun Pun. Brandon also had a Bluetooth speaker at the crime scene when they arrived and it was playing the same song on repeat over and over again. And this makes me sad because it's actually a song I like. It's called Test Drive by an artist named Joji. And the song's basically about someone who is more invested in a relationship than the other person. And then there was the fact that Brandon had planned to tape Bianca's murder so he could post it, watch it back on later. Now, thankfully, the actual murder video didn't make it onto the internet.

• 42:19Payton Moreland?

  But when police discovered the video, they discovered that Bianca fought back. She fought back hard. So with all of this evidence, prosecutors are like, yep, we think we have enough to get a conviction. The only thing is in the state of New York, they would still consider this a second degree murder, even if it's premeditated. Turns out, New York doesn't use first and second degree murder in the same way that other states do. Their first degree murder is reserved for more specific situations like killing a police officer or a judge or multiple victims or terrorism. But before they can even get to court, there's another battle that the family and lawyers have to fight, and that is social media themselves.

• 43:05Payton Moreland?

  Now, unfortunately, the image of Bianca after her death spread like the plague across social media platforms. And even after Brandon was locked up and charged, this image continued to circulate. Why? Because Instagram was extremely slow to shut down Brandon's account. And again, this was on his Instagram account.

• 43:24Garrett Moreland?

  What year are we in again?

• 43:26Payton Moreland?

  2019.

• 43:27Garrett Moreland?

  Okay. I'm surprised they weren't a little faster, but I feel like that wouldn't be the thing now. I feel like they're pretty fast at that stuff now. But I mean, that was seven years ago.

• 43:36Payton Moreland?

  Okay, this is like a dead body.

• 43:38Garrett Moreland?

  But that's true.

• 43:39Payton Moreland?

  Unblurred.

• 43:40Garrett Moreland?

  I think people, I think like Instagram and other these other social media websites were.

• 43:48Garrett Moreland?

  For some reason, when they, not that they just started in 2019, it's been around for a bit, but they didn't think like, oh, like no one would do that, you know? Like, no, no one would actually do that. It's like, no, people would do that.

• 44:01Payton Moreland?

  So it took close to a day for them to remove his profile for violating their terms of service, which then removed his posts. And in the meantime, both he and Bianca, like both of them, had amassed thousands of new followers. And like Jared and I were talking about, Brandon began receiving public praise from men who agreed with him that she deserved to die, like publicly saying this, that she led him on.

• 44:28Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, I already know the type of people they are.

• 44:31Payton Moreland?

  And then just even after they removed the account, I mean, screenshots, screen grabs, shared to different platforms, like it's, it's already everywhere, even though the account was taken down, the damage had been done. After that, images of Bianca's death had spilled over from mainstream social media to the fringes of the internet places way less regulated than Instagram. Because if you comment that on an Instagram picture, your comment is most likely gonna take, get taken down. But if you comment this on a darker site, well, they're gonna just like encourage this conversation to keep going. So a lot of Bianca's friends, as well as complete strangers, began reposting happy images of her to try and like, when you search her name, push these images away.

• 45:15Payton Moreland?

  But that didn't stop trolls from sending those disturbing images to Bianca's friends, family, and even her own mom. Many of them were, I guess what you could say like incels, essentially, like they just have their own little community and they thought that this was so funny. And while Brandon doesn't necessarily like openly be like, oh, I'm an incel, he did become a mascot for this hate fueled community after Bianca's death. Like, they were like, yeah, this guy's amazing. All of which brings up a much larger conversation. How do you even police this? Which is kind of what we were talking about earlier.

• 45:52Garrett Moreland?

  And we've talked about it in another, another, in another case where we were talking about freedom of speech, but at what point does it? Because we were talking about how, what point is it just like harmful and effective to someone's like mental health and the sense that it makes them kill themselves? I think this is when we were talking about how, what case was it where he can, she convinced him to commit suicide?

• 46:23Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 46:24Garrett Moreland?

  And we're talking about at some point, like, is it freedom of speech? Or we just, is it just full blown hate speech? And it's just not okay?

• 46:30Payton Moreland?

  Like, yeah, we need regulation on this.

• 46:32Garrett Moreland?

  Correct.

• 46:33Payton Moreland?

  It is, it is such a sticky, and here's the thing, sites like Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, who like, you would say are more.

• 46:44Garrett Moreland?

  Well, they're regulated.

• 46:45Payton Moreland?

  They're regulated. They do use human moderators. But like, how do you even monitor all of this? Like even on those sites, you then get to the darker sites? How is this even possible? Instagram alone has three billion users a month. That's over a third of the world's global population. And if Instagram takes a day to remove a picture of a dead body, imagine how other sites who don't have that much power.

• 47:14Garrett Moreland?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Payton Moreland?

  So unfortunately, this is why a lot of it works on an honor system. You have to trust other people to flag it, hopefully get it to their attention sooner. Right now, there's nothing immediately stopping people from posting something like this. Like when you go to post, there's not something that like can immediately flag it and not post it. At least in this case, the person responsible was caught quickly. Though at first, Brandon was pleading not guilty to second degree murder charges, but on February 10th, 2020, right before his trial was set to begin, he changed his plea to guilty. And then in June of that year, right before his sentencing hearing, he changed it back to not guilty and his motion was denied.

• 47:55Payton Moreland?

  He was sentenced to 25 years to life and will be eligible for parole around 2044. Now Bianca's family is working to make changes regarding content on the internet, obviously.

• 48:07Garrett Moreland?

  Gosh, it really is such a, it's. It's a never ending battle, I feel like.

• 48:12Payton Moreland?

  Then that included actually helping the state of New York pass Bianca's law in December of 2022. This law criminalizes the posting, sharing and publishing of personal images of crime victims with intent to degrade, harass or glorify.

• 48:29Garrett Moreland?

  Oh, good. Okay.

• 48:29Payton Moreland?

  So there's an intent behind it, right? Like, this isn't for information. This isn't for case study. This is an intent to degrade this person, harass this person, glorify, like praise someone for their acts. And then it's not just a post story. If you share it, like if you reshare it, you can get charged, which I think is a good, like is a step in the right direction.

• 48:52Garrett Moreland?

  Well, I just think majority of it, like majority of, like all of our stuff we post, we like we blur it.

• 48:58Payton Moreland?

  Right.

• 48:59Garrett Moreland?

  And I think it should be blurred for a reason. Like you don't need to see the unblurred versions.

• 49:02Payton Moreland?

  No.

• 49:03Garrett Moreland?

  Like we just, we don't, we don't, as humans, like we don't, honestly, we don't really need that.

• 49:09Payton Moreland?

  No, there's just some things we don't need to see.

• 49:11Garrett Moreland?

  We weren't meant to have that. I don't even think we were meant to have social media, but hey, here we are.

• 49:15Payton Moreland?

  Yeah. The family has also set up a scholarship in Bianca's name. It will go to students who want to follow the same ambitions Bianca did. Pursue a degree in psychology and helping other adolescents overcome their mental health struggles. And we have provided the link, but before I end the case, I did just want to say, I clearly covered Bianca's history. I covered that she had struggled, that she had gone down a darker path on the internet. She had stumbled upon forums that allow people to have this parasocial relationship, be obsessed with you.

• 49:57Payton Moreland?

  But in no means does that mean that she was like, yes, murder me and publish it on the internet. You know what I mean? That doesn't mean that she was on murdering forums. That doesn't mean that she was on the dark web. I mean, she really was just basically being an influencer in a different space. And so I don't want any of it like, well, when you mess with this kind of stuff, it's like she wasn't messing with that kind of stuff. That is our episode for today and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.

• 50:28Garrett Moreland?

  And I hate it.

• 50:29Payton Moreland?

  Goodbye.