Manifesting won’t make you happy: Express true emotion with Estelle Bingham

So many of us have had to shut down our heart and numb our emotions to survive. Estelle Bingham is dubbed ‘The Heart Whisperer’; she knows the greatest anxiety can come from suppressing parts of ourselves. In this chat with Fearne, Estelle – a holistic therapist and healer – explains how when the mind is spiralling out of control, the heart can bring us back to stillness. She shares how to feel your emotions in your body instead of just analysing them in your head. Fearne has done her own personal work with Estelle, and they talk though how Estelle’s guidance can banish shame and put a circuit breaker in negative thought patterns. Plus, why Estelle reckons the type of manifesting you see on Instagram is “a load of old cobblers”, and how she would recommend manifesting joy instead... Estelle’s book, Manifest Your True Essence, is out on April 8th. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Florence Given https://pod.fo/e/27d879 Gabby Bernstein https://pod.fo/e/10f5e4 Joey Hulin https://pod.fo/e/176947 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that gives you permission to take off whatever mask you're wearing for other people. Today, I'm chatting to Estelle Bingham.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  When we're in flow, we just manifest all the... we're in flow, so we're in the flow of who we are. And as you show up more authentically every day, you speak your truth, you speak your boundaries, you say, "I like this and I don't like that." What happens there is we're manifesting the life of our dreams. And ultimately, that vision board, "I want that, I want that car, I want..." That's just going to be manifesting more of that. And ultimately, that doesn't bring us happiness. What brings us happiness is, I'm in the car I want to drive and I also am enough without the car that I want to drive.

• 1:11Fearne Cotton?

  I'm excited for you to meet Estelle. It's important for me with Happy Place to introduce you to people that you know and love already and hopefully will get to know a bit better, but also people you might not know about, people who are doing really special work that might not be in the public domain. And Estelle certainly fits into that category. I've worked with her a couple of times personally, not professionally, and have gained a lot from her wisdom and knowledge. One thing I guess I've been finding recently, and when I say recently, I mean in the last year, is that I can sometimes feel a bit numb. And this is more of a recent thing because I've had periods of overwhelming emotion.

• 1:53Fearne Cotton?

  But I think when you go through a lot of stuff, and we all have, we've all gone through a bunch of stuff, sometimes I can be a bit numb and I don't let the emotion, especially the tears, come to the surface. And that was quite apparent when I met Estelle, because I had a big old cry the first time I met her. And I'm trying to get a bit, I was about to say better, not better, a bit more open to just letting that stuff come to the surface, to having a proper weep and letting sadness be there, rather than soldering on, numbing myself, blocking it all out. Um, I had a good cry at the weekend, actually. It was sort of half happy tears, half sad tears. And I think it's really important to let

• 2:36Fearne Cotton?

  that stuff come out, have a good old weep, basically. So let's properly talk about Estelle. She was introduced to transcendental meditation at the age of six, and her deep connection to the soul's journey has been a guiding force throughout her life. It's really hard to explain exactly what she does, but I do think she explains it rather well in a moment. But it's a guide, I guess, of sorts, to working out what's really going on within you and how you're feeling, when often we all numb and block out emotion. And she does it in the most beautiful and unusual way, actually. And that's why I love her work. She's written a book called Manifest Your True Essence, which will be out in April. Now, I was excited

• 3:19Fearne Cotton?

  to talk about this book, because I sway between thinking manifesting is the best thing since sliced bread, to thinking it's a load of old shit, usually the moments when things don't manifest that I'm wanting. Um, and that's obviously not how manifesting works. Hence why I put that to Estelle, and she gives a bloody solid answer. So that's on the way. Also, thinking about the heart. Now, when we do these podcasts, sometimes I probably am a little bit too focused on the cerebral, the cognitive element of mental health. We forget about the poor old heart. So that is what we're going to talk about a hell of a lot. We talk about the concept of feeling deserving of a great life and happiness,

• 4:02Fearne Cotton?

  and exploring your own backstory, which can be excruciating. Um, and whether we do have to revisit our childhoods to actually heal, which I think is a really interesting point. Also, why sort of those Instagramming, manifesting moments are a load of old cobblers, in Estelle's words.

• 4:24Speaker 03

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• 4:54Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them.

• 5:07Speaker 05

  Everybody listen up.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 5:24Speaker 06

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• 5:56Fearne Cotton?

  Can't wait for this. Here's the show.

• 6:20Fearne Cotton?

  Estelle, welcome to Happy Place.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  I am so excited to be here with you, Fan. So excited.

• 6:26Fearne Cotton?

  I'm really excited. I mean, it's always an interesting one for me when I have a guest on, not only that I know, but also... So we've worked together in a personal way. I have come to your beautiful treatment room, met your amazing dog, been in that space, worked with you. You've been hugely helpful to me, which is obviously one of the reasons that I was so keen to have this chat. First of all, I mean, we're going to talk about your book in a minute, but how would you describe either yourself and how you identify at work or what you do?

• 6:57Speaker 02

  That's such a good question, Fern, and I love the way that we've just gone straight in there.

• 7:01Fearne Cotton?

  You're no fucking about.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  Over to you. I feel like what happens to me, I mean, a great way to describe some of the people that come to see me often is there's been a lot of work that's happened. Maybe people have done some therapy, traditional therapy, talking therapy, which is amazing and wonderful. And they've kind of gained awareness around some of the blocks and the things that are holding them back. But they're still in their heads. They're still in the, these things are still going around in the head. They can understand the concept, but nothing really changes in the day to day. So really for me, what I do is I help people drop in, you know, we work with the heart.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  We work with that heart energy. This is for me, the gateway back to an authentic life, back to our authentic selves. Because we're not going to get there with the mind. Because remember, the mind loves to chit chat, talk all sorts of stuff to us all the time. All of these thoughts are held in the mind. So I just bring people back into their hearts. It's a little bit of a tweak, but we embody, then we start to embody in a different way. So we start to show up in a different way in our lives and kind of come home to ourselves, really.

• 8:13Fearne Cotton?

  Which is why you've been called the heart whisperer, which is a nice, that's a lovely title.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  It is a title. It is a lovely title. I feel, you know, quite honoured to be.

• 8:23Fearne Cotton?

  Gorgeous.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  It is a lovely title.

• 8:25Fearne Cotton?

  Especially in this day and age where we don't celebrate that stuff. We celebrate IQ and, you know, how quickly you can work cognitively and are you ahead of the game? And are you thinking logically? And are you problem solving? Nobody ever stops to go, wow, that person's really moving through the world. From the heart and thinking about love and compassion for themselves and other people. We celebrate that a hell of a lot less, which is probably why so many people come to you or just in general, aren't feeling great. Because like you say, we're stuck up here ruminating, constantly worrying, stuck in negative thought loops and we're not, we ignore the heart altogether.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  We do ignore the heart altogether. And I think the heart, what I talk about often, it's in the book, is the heart gets a really bad rap, actually. Because, you know, the minute we think of the heart, we think, oh, it's a bit mushy, it's a bit, you know.

• 9:23Fearne Cotton?

  A bit woo woo, yeah.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  It's a bit fanciful.

• 9:25Fearne Cotton?

  It's a bit fanciful. Good for you, thinking about the heart. You've got time to, have you? That kind of thing.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  It's a bit indulgent or something.

• 9:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  But actually, you know, there is science behind how powerful the heart is. And so it's called neurocardiology, which is just the understanding of the mind of the heart. Because what neurocardiologists have discovered since the 50s and 60s is that the heart has a mind of its own. So it has neurons, it has neurotransmitters, it has support cells, just like the mind, just like the brain. So we don't really know that. And this is like, it's a little known truth, but it's out there. So it's science, backed by science. It's not a fanciful thing, actually. When we activate the heart, we really move and step into the heart. Every day, life changes. It's a very small tweak,

• 10:15Speaker 02

  but it works. And that's what I've found in my work, that it's actually quite exponential. It's actually, you know, we can sit with these concepts for hours on end and days and months, but not see any changes in our world. But when we step into the heart, something different happens. Because the heart sends more messages to the brain than the brain sends to the heart.

• 10:38Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. The heart also has a memory, so the heart remembers things and that's also scientifically proven. So when people have heart transplants, what they've understood, I mean, there's an amazing book out there about it, I reference it in my book, which is, you know, this, this woman who had a heart transplant, she had suddenly all her, her, her taste, her tastes changed. Suddenly she was, you know, she was looking at curvy blondes and she was, wanted burgers and she wanted to smoke and she, and actually it was this memory in the heart of the, the, her child, the person who had passed and, and whose heart she was holding, which was a young motorcyclist, um, who, who had passed away in a motorcycle accident

• 11:22Speaker 02

  and she was actually suddenly holding his memories in her body. So what my work does is my work, we bring focus into the heart to empty energy from the emotional body. And often what, what we're carrying, we're carrying so much, we don't know what we're carrying, but there's layers of stuff that we're carrying. And in these sessions and with this process, we kind of get to just let it go because ultimately we just need to put this stuff down.

• 11:50Fearne Cotton?

  We do. And I think it's so interesting because when you, and like we've said, talk therapy is brilliant. I do it and it's helped me massively, but sometimes the danger is you get stuck in a cycle of you tell your story and your story is something that's probably well-practiced or certainly something you've thought about a lot where this happened to me, I reacted in this way, I am this way because, and it's just words that are on a loop and their thought patterns on a loop. And actually this cuts through all of that. It manages to somehow negate this well rehearsed story you've got because it's stuff that is deeply held in your body. And, and we know that happens. There's brilliant books like The Body Keeps the Score. This stuff is, is in our cells, it's in our body. So to go

• 12:35Fearne Cotton?

  to the, the physical element and also the, the heart where, you know, which is obviously synonymous with love and compassion and self-care, we're actually uncovering stuff that we don't even know is there at all. There's, there's layers and layers of crap. That you need to get beneath. I've certainly realised from working with you and having an understanding of of this stuff. That it's not just this story we're telling ourselves. There's other stuff that we're not even aware of.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely, because what happens often is we're not really in touch with the feelings. So we understand the story, so we can look back at our four-year-old self or our six-year-old self and we're like, well, this is what happened at that time. And we can get in touch with the memories and a certain amount of the feelings. It's not that it doesn't work. But Peter Levine, who, you know, he developed the somatic experiencing technique, which some people out there may have heard of already. But that's just experiencing the feelings in the body. And that's really where I start. I start in that place. But bringing in the heart is like, it's basically our superpower. It's like in, we already have it.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  And that's really my big, you know, that's my mantra, like, you are already whole. So we're not, we're not, there's not the big healing story. I mean, we do do the healing work, we do do the inner work, but you've already got this. We're just returning to wholeness. And what happens with the heart, it's like, it's like, you know, you go into the dark room. And often what happens, people turn up, and I always say this, it's like, you, you know, we're in this dark room and we keep bumping into the same sofa. And falling over the same, you know, the same sofa and then having the same outcomes or experiencing the same things, being in the same types of relationships. Calling in all of these, you know, similar experiences. And I just say, let's just switch the light on.

• 14:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  So that's all it is. It's like we're activating the heart, just switching the light on. It's not a big fandango. It's actually really simple, you know, the, the, the heart technique coming into the heart is just, we take some really nice, deep heart and body breaths. Those really settle the parasympathetic nervous system. We know that from breath work these days and what that does. You know, those really breathing in and then taking deep exhales from deep in the body. So not up here, because a lot of us breathe, just up here. At the top, from the neck and nothing's really, we're just not, not doing anything. And we just come in with a certain amount of awareness into the heart. So it's actually. Really simple.

• 15:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and I think, I mean, I want to get into to manifesting and this relates to it to a degree because, like you say, we repeat the same mistakes. I can look back at certain things. I'm like, why am I having to learn this lesson again? I've done this one, but I've made the same choices. I've ended up because it's comfortable, it's familiar. I understand it. You know, you think you know what you need and you don't. And I think it's um, it's so interesting that so much of that is connected to a lack of self-love, a lack of self-compassion that we have. I think most people have a sort of a low-level self-loathing. We're so used to berating ourselves for every flaw, every mistake, every fault. We isolate ourselves in it. I mean, I do this all the time. I was,

• 15:46Fearne Cotton?

  you know, in therapy yesterday, talking about this, saying, oh, my God, I'm so flawed. There's something wrong with me and nobody else. And I know all this stuff and I still have that underlying feeling that I'm getting it more wrong than anybody and I'm way more flawed than anybody. I think we all have the propensity to do that. And I guess when you're doing this work that focuses on the heart, it's just reminding us that we've all got that going on, but actually we can still love ourselves, we can forgive ourselves and and that is, I guess, one of the biggest blocks when it comes to manifesting a life that you actually want is the fact that you fucking hate yourself.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, there are two things there that are really important, right? So imagine heart energy. Imagine that you've got a tap and most of the time, either that tap is just, it's not on at all, or there's a little drip, drip, drip. Okay, every three minutes, like, you know, a bit of a torture, torture situation. When we get into just thinking about the heart every day for a few minutes a day, we start to turn that tap and it's a flow. And what I will say, it's quite, it's, you know, it's a thing to think about, but when we twist that, that, that tap and there is heart energy flow, you are bringing a different energy into your life. So I always say to people, just stay curious. Stay curious and see what happens.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  And with the manifesting, you know, there's so much out there about manifesting at the moment. And I've been manifesting, that has been part of my practice for years and years. And we know about it from, you know, manifest, from law of attraction, it's out there in the world. But there is a ceiling to manifesting. If you're unconscious, if underneath all of this, manifesting, manifesting, manifesting is a sense of self-loathing, shame, you know, we're not accepting ourselves, we're beating ourselves up. But it up here, we're thinking, I want, I want this relationship, I want this job opportunity, I want to move here, I want to do this. I want to be seen, I want, I want people to know me, to hear me.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  But actually, what happens is, because remember, the mind is made up of sort of eighty seven percent or even ninety two percent, it was between there, is unconscious and the rest is conscious. So remember that tiny little bit of mind, the way we're saying, I want, you know, I'm manifesting, I'm making vision balls, I'm doing this, manifest, manifest, manifest. But the unconscious.

• 18:10Fearne Cotton?

  Is huge.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Is huge. So remember that, that big iceberg, okay, we can just see the top of the iceberg, but underneath is all of the truth of who, of who we are, of what we really believe about ourselves. And so what we need to do is we need to come in and to, and be with this unconscious. But when we activate the heart, we're coming in immediately with a gentleness, with a softness. We are activating that flow of compassion. Again, when we say, when we use these words, they get banded around, we see them on Instagram, we see them here, there and everywhere. Love, compassion, bring more compassion in, radical self-acceptance. What does it really feel like? People know what it sounds like, but do they know what it feels like? And so that's what we, we really work with.

• 18:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yes. Now, this is so exciting and so interesting because I was, I was instantly fascinated as to why you called the book Manifest Your True Essence. Because I think. True essence can feel almost sort of nebulous, like what, what is it? I don't know what my true essence is, but I think even you just describing that huge amount of subconscious thought we have. Just even having an awareness of what those thoughts are, I guess helps us work out who we are. Because a lot of the time, I think we're all quite confused, like, I don't know who I am, you know, I'm just sort of lost in motherhood and trying to. The hamster wheel of getting to work and have I remembered the school snacks and like even today, I totally forgot about an after school club and I've totally fucked up and blah, blah, blah.

• 19:40Fearne Cotton?

  But you sort of get so lost in the daily grind of all of it, that you don't even know what you like anymore, what you want out of life. And I think that's been, I've had so many interesting chats, like one of my really good friends, I think I'm allowed to just say his name, Harry. I don't think he's gonna mind, but we talk about manifesting all the time. And sometimes we believe we're really on to something and we're really in the flow of it and everything feels great. And at other times we'll ring each other and go, is manifesting a load of shit? And we'll really deeply dive into it and go, is it, is it a thing? Does it work? And I think for so many people, you don't even know where to begin. What do I want?

• 20:18Fearne Cotton?

  I don't even know. I don't, I have no idea what's gonna serve me best. I might, I might think I do, but then, who knows? I think it's that understanding of who you are and what you want that feels like the biggest first stumbling block to me. So how the hell do we work out who we really are?

• 20:38Speaker 02

  I mean, this is a big question, right? This is the big question of life. This is a big question of the lifetime and, and who are, who am I?

• 20:45Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I need you to answer it now.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  I get that. I love that. But it's also, it is, it is what we wanna be with because ultimately we're looking for all of us. And I, and I think it's, it's so wonderful how you just talk so freely about how you're feeling in the moment. Because all of us are feeling all these things, you know, we're, we're feeling all these things all, all day long, right? And we're not alone and it is, it's, and when, when you were talking to your therapist and you're like, it's me and it's only me and. This is what all of us, all of us are with this. In fact, shame, we all have a pocket of shame. Yeah. So shame is actually something that we, that just comes in in the childhood. And it's, it just comes in because there'll be a moment when someone says no to us.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  And we're like, oh, you know, and, and it's not about what happens with these emotions. It's just about how we hold the emotions.

• 21:41Speaker 03

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• 22:11Speaker 06

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• 23:21Speaker 07

  And you guys know, we don't do Halloween by harm.

• 23:24Speaker 04

  Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Then we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  We've got a spooky hotline caller. An update from our woman who was in love with the ghost of Prince Albert. And your tarot card dilemmas. Listen to our Halloween specials, search for The Girl's Bathroom.

• 23:51Fearne Cotton?

  You do a whole section in the book on shame, which I was again fascinated by because I've had whole periods of my life where I've been engulfed by it and it's ruled the show. And I think you assume in those moments, I need to get rid of shame. It needs to go. I need to not feel this. But you actually say, welcome it, welcome it with open arms.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  I say that there's nothing that we're holding that we can't hold more with love. And so coming back to your original questions, I think is so important about who am I? And how do I get to that authentic feeling or idea of self? Like so that I know what I want. So when I go into my manifesting, into my vision boards, I'm visioning with real clarity. Because remember, that alignment is what pulls things in, right? Really knowing, being really clear with the universe is what brings it right in. Okay. When it's, again, when it's, well, I want this and I want that, but underneath, I don't deserve any of that, right? So you've got, you know, the bulk of you, so 86% of you, I don't deserve that. And then you've got this beautiful vision board that, you know, you've spent a lot of

• 24:55Speaker 02

  time, you know, collating and putting this and that, and I want to do this, I want to do that. But you don't believe that you deserve it. So this thing about how do we get back to our authentic selves? Firstly, it's about acceptance and forgiveness. And often it's about accepting the parts of ourselves that we've put under the carpet, that we've repressed and suppressed. Because remember that we have all done that somewhere. There will be a part of you. That's in the shadow and I call it the shadow lands and it's the shadow and some people would have heard about that. But you can just think about it really simply. It's parts of us that through our childhoods or at school, we have had to repress. Because there hasn't been any space for those for those parts to exist.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  So, you know, if we were in a a situation where we we had to, we couldn't be poetic and we, you know. You had to kind of get into sports because sports was how you related to your father and you couldn't, you actually wanted to be a poet. But there was no room for that. There was no space for that artistic self thing. Guess what happens to the artistic part of us? We have to shove it away. Also, so many of us are told that we're too emotional. So many of us have to zip it. So many of us have to, you know, we have to start to hide these parts of us to to survive. So it's all about that emotional survival. And again, depending on the childhood environment, if our parents don't allow that, sometimes we have parents. Who take up emotional space.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Okay, so with me and my my situation, the space was already taken up by the drama and trauma of my mother. And so that's who had the space, right? So there was no room for me. No one was asking me, how how are you feeling? Or how are you? And again, that's a cultural thing. Many of us have grown up with that. That was what it was like growing up before. But really, this return to self, this return to the authentic self is is about journeying, taking a step. That stepping on that path back to bringing those parts back in with love. Just returning to, you know, to to the to the six year old self that it was really sensitive. And then actually shut down. And what happened was she shut down her heart to survive.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  So we go back in and we would, we we kind of, these are all the parts of our beautiful, you know, we've got so many colors. To our rainbow and we want to just bring those colors, we want to bring them back into the room. Because from that place, when you've got that palette of color, all of those colors. Then we can kind of say, well, actually, I kind of feel like being that person because I've actually discovered in the last six. Months, I thought I was that person, but having got back in touch with the part of me that used to love to, you know, listen to the birds or used to love to paint, or I was quite loud, or, you know, and I was told to be quiet, or,

• 27:45Speaker 02

  you know, I want to manifest this suddenly. So when we get in touch with those, we just allow some space for all of it. And shame is part of that.

• 27:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Because shame, we don't run from these parts of ourselves, these repressed, you know, um, they're they're the sort of cut off parts of ourselves. We bring them into a safe place. So it's like bringing them in back into a room. And you can imagine that. And that's how we stretch into our heart. And we bring them in, and that's where the alchemy happens. It's okay that you felt shame when, you know, often we carry all sorts of things. You know, we can carry sexual shame, we can carry shame for just being who we are, for having emotions, sometimes, again, as I said, households can be emotion phobic, like we just don't do emotion, right? Like you're not allowed to be angry, you're not allowed to be sad.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  All sorts of different reasons why. But in this return to self and your true essence, we just spend, you know, some some moments in this process, bringing those parts back in, recovering ourselves. And from there, we get this kind of really solid sense of who we are.

• 28:55Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. I mean, you you have to have an element of willingness to be flexible because when you get so used to suppressing parts of yourself, I think we all start to build an identity based on that. And again, you know, we express it to other people. This is who I am. This is how I move through the world. I certainly in my forties have been sort of almost surprised at where I'm headed and ending up because of having intrigue into looking into what bits of me have been suppressed. And I know certainly, maybe some from childhood.

• 29:34Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sure, um, but certainly from starting in TV so young. And you are explicitly told constantly, you're to this or don't do that. And. I took on this role of I need to be the good girl and I need to get it perfect. Don't rock the boat, don't upset anyone, you'll lose your job, you won't get to do this anymore. But I carried that on for years and it's only now in my forties that I've started to. Let things fall to the wayside, things are a bit messy. I'm not being the good girl, I'm, you know, I'm very aware of my flaws and the, the parts of me that. Um, I've struggled with, but I'm happier.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:18Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so much happier, not tightly gripping the reins and just thinking I've got to be the good girl all the time and suppress all these bits of myself. That I know are there and want to be maybe outspoken or do something that. Might piss somebody else off or whatever it is, that I'm so massively suppressed for years and years. And it's by no means comfortable, but I'm certainly happier and I feel much more like myself. I don't think I'm at the place yet where. I'm like, I know who I am, I know exactly what I want, this is me manifesting it. I think I'm. A few steps back, but it, it certainly feels surprising to welcome those bits of yourself.

• 31:00Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, for me, it feels like I'm not even welcoming them back. I'm just like, oh, I've discovered them for the first time and I'm, and I'm letting them. Be there and breathe. It's, it's, and it's scary. It's quite a scary process to go through.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  It is a scary process in the beginning. It, it can feel scary because of course what's, what you're talking about there is so important and, and you know, you would have heard of that. Uh, be- before from so many people that you've interviewed about the masks that we, you know.

• 31:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh god, yeah.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  So how we mask and how we learn. So remember the masking is we repress things about us and then we mask. Kind of we mask up. So how we survive environments and the roles that we play. And so. Removing some of these masks, self, you know, the perfectionist, you know, whatever it is, I'm fine.

• 31:45Fearne Cotton?

  Always doing the right thing.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Always doing the right thing.

• 31:47Fearne Cotton?

  Making everything perfect for everyone.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  All of that stuff, people pleasing, all of the things. So we have to think about when we dismantle, you know, what, what then happens. And I always say that that's just a massive invitation because remember that. What is exciting about our time on the planet is that we get to grow, like it's so exciting that we get to evolve, you know. How amazing that you're sitting here in your forties, but in your sixties, you're gonna keep growing and you're gonna

• 32:16Fearne Cotton?

  Bring it on.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Keep evolving and and I also wanna say, cause it's really important, you don't have to be perfect or in your authentic self in order to manifest.

• 32:26Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  You can just be, the two can be, you know, moving side by side. I just say for the, for really powerful manifesting, this side needs to also be growing, right? So as long as we're growing, as long as we're in that flow, it doesn't have to be that you've gone into all of your unconscious and all of it's alchemized and you're meditating every day and you're in your heart every day. Just stay curious. When you feel you're going off a little bit, right? Because we all have those days. And that's the thing about the heart, the heart is there to anchor us. Nothing changes about life, like you're gonna miss the, you know, you're gonna miss the the school club and someone's gonna be late and it's not gonna be perfect and you're gonna say the wrong thing and, oh my god, did I do that? Yes, you did do it.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  The heart just brings us back into an anchoring that takes us out of the mind, cause the mind can take us spiral us out of control.

• 33:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  And this just brings us into stillness. And so we just wanna go into stillness, stay curious and keep growing. Like I wanna grow till I'm nine, in my nineties, I wanna be like, you know, today I'm a novelist, tomorrow I'm a gardener, the next, you know, that's what joy is.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  I agree, and it's so, I'm so glad that you're breaking all this down, because I think the toxic side of looking at even just wellness, very generic, huge pool of activities and whatever it is now, but also looking at the toxic side of how manifesting can be talked about is I think many of us believe, and this is what myself and my friend Harry have talked about, we, we sometimes could get drawn into I cannot have a single negative thought, I must just completely believe in the fact that I am deserving and this is the outcome and this is what I want to happen. And if I veer off that for a minute, then I've, I've screwed it up and I'm not gonna manifest my dreams and you're Saying the complete opposite of that, that let it all exist at the same time.

• 34:17Fearne Cotton?

  We don't have to be this pure person that only has good thoughts and I only think good things constantly. That that seems like this very sanitized Instagrammable manifesting thing where you're doing your cute little journaling and you're only thinking positive thoughts and you're doing your vision board and you never ever veer off of it. Of course, that's not real life, you know, shit's happening all over the place constantly that's completely out of our control. People are gonna piss us off, people are gonna say things we don't like, people will say no. We're allowed to have negative thoughts, feelings, but it's going back to that self compassion of, I'm a human. Of course, I'm gonna have a whole mixed bag of stuff.

• 34:57Fearne Cotton?

  I think that's the bit that has irked me about manifesting this sort of, I must be a pure person that doesn't do anything wrong or say bad things.

• 35:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that that pure person doesn't exist, right? So if we were in that dimension.

• 35:09Fearne Cotton?

  It's on Instagram, but it's bullshit.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  It's it is a load of old cobblers.

• 35:13Fearne Cotton?

  Life of version.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's basically, it's a total load of old cobblers.

• 35:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  What happens is, is that that's toxic positivity, right? So that becomes, it becomes something to then, you know, self flagellate, like punish ourselves. Like, we want to do all that stuff. We every day we're waking up thinking, how can I give myself a hard time about something, right? Let's not give up, start giving ourselves a hard time about how we're not the perfect manifestors, okay? You can have, there are two truths in life all the time. It's called dialectical truth and two truths can exist at the same time. So, for example, someone can pass away in hospital with cancer or, you know, and you're, it's so sad and so, and this has happened to me. And it's so awful and so sad and you're so devastated, but you're actually really relieved that they're not in pain anymore.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  That's the truth that you're holding and you really want them to be alive, right? So these two truths, dialectical truths, it's not either or, it's and, can exist at the same time. So I always say, allow, you know, that day when you wake up and you're like, I don't really feel like I deserve X. That's okay, let that be there and then meet that with a sort of compassion, you know, or you you you see something on, you know, you see the LA fires or something's happening that's really upset you or you are grieving, you know, these things are like, this is what life is. This is the stuff of life. We want to meet these experiences because that's the fullness of life. We want to be the person who is moved by something and feels sad about something like, oh, I'm feeling really sad.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  I'm not the perfect manifester in this moment. No, but you're human. And we come back to that, you know, sense of I deserve. It doesn't it doesn't rock you completely, but this idea of I've got to be perfect or I'm not enough is a nonsense. Yeah. A hundred percent a nonsense. So when we allow that, and that's what when these words become real, like when we actually say, I'm not feeling so great today. I don't really know if I deserve. I feel a bit nervous. I'm anxious about that. Oh, wow. But we notice it. We think, oh, okay, I'm I'm triggered. I'm I'm getting triggered right now. So or I'm this feeling of I I'm noticing this feeling of shame inside me. And I get that, that, you know, I I see that and I I see you.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  And I'm going to just meet you with acceptance and some compassion and a little bit of love. And we're going to work this out. You start to adult, you start to companion yourself. You start to companion yourself. So what is self-love? What is it? What does it really mean when I, when you say I love myself? What it means is when you're having that moment of shame, that real feeling of I got this wrong, I've let someone down, that rather than spiraling, okay, we step into the heart and we sort of go, okay, let me hold you. Let me hold this feeling and meet it with some. Um, a little bit of space, a little bit of a breath, a little bit of a pause. You know, and and be with you and and meet you differently rather than going straight into that spiral.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Recognize that spiral like, oh, my God, why did I, you know, it does, it starts to move. And then it starts to take over. So then it starts to show up physiologically. And as anxiety or whatever it is, and we're saying, we're gonna, we're we're tweaking that.

• 38:30Fearne Cotton?

  It's a big tweak because I think for the majority of us, it's all of this is unconscious. Behaviour. We don't even realise that we're, I know, I did it yesterday. I beat myself up. About this one thing, just on a loop and I couldn't get out of it and. It wasn't until I've sort of had the awareness of like, what am I, why am I doing this to myself? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that's, you know, felt like this before or is clinging on to one negative thing and obsessing about it. It feels so alien, especially the first time you do it, to. Not walk down that route of calling yourself every name under the sun and thinking you're the worst person on the planet.

• 39:14Fearne Cotton?

  And meeting yourself, that part of yourself with compassion, it feels so alien. That's not a reason to not do it. But I think it feels utterly absurd the first time you do it and you you let yourself off the hook essentially.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, all of this feels really unknown, doesn't it? So when we, anything, the minute you, if you're listening to this and you're thinking. Wow, like, I don't know, you know, I've never been to a therapist or I've never, I don't, this doesn't make any sense to me, but. Because it's all new. When something is new, it's new, you know, and as we get older, that the un, the not knowing or that that aren't the unknown. It's kind of like, wow, like, it's scary. Like you said, it's a bit scary still, you know, like, that's, it's, oh, I'm standing on the edge of that. What do I do if I just, I I I go over that cliff? Like, am I gonna fall? What's gonna happen? But actually, you know, the the the most important thing to to recognise and remember is that. This is is, this part is backed up by science too. So it's, we do create new neural pathways, right?

• 40:12Speaker 02

  So that's what happens when we start to, and and they do happen with those kind of really a bit in the big beginning. Kind of itchy, scratchy, like, you know, like you can imagine in the car and you're kind of pressing, you know, like reverse, you wanna go into that cul-de-sac, everything's pulling you into that cul-de-sac, spiral, spiral, spiral, it's where, it's what you know, it's what you do. You know, something happens and then boom, you're in the cul-de-sac. And you're stuck, you're stuck there for the duration because that's what you know, that's what your body knows. That's where you go. So to kind of start reversing out of that, you don't really know how to reverse because you haven't really worked that part of this, you know, this, this operation yet. So in the beginning, it feels really weird, it does.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  But every time we do it, and so I say, and I do say this because that moment of awareness that you happened, hallelujah, it's all, it's, it's just, these are our seeds, it's all we need, we just need to start somewhere, we all have to start somewhere. So that moment of awareness, asking that question of like, hang on a minute, like, why, why am I doing this?

• 41:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. Do you think it's essential to go back to childhood to look at where these blocks started? Is that something that is worthwhile doing? In the context of manifesting and wanting to work out what you want out of life?

• 41:28Speaker 02

  What I've understood in my process, when, when I, you know, is that we all, we have to understand the root of, of where these things come from. And that's also, I, I would say, rather than this idea of, some people get overwhelmed by that thought, you know, having to go back, do I have to go back, really? But I want you to think of this as your treasure trove. This is, and we, we spoke about it at the beginning, like, how do I get back to the, my authentic self? Well, imagine your treasure trove, imagine this big chest of stuff. And it's locked. And it's in the middle of your room, right? So remember our, our room, we switched on the light. Okay, so now we can see what's in the room and there's certain things in there that we want in there and there's certain things we don't want in there.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  We get to open the curtains, we get to open the windows, we get to create the right type of space for us and that's what knowing ourselves is. You know, I want to create a safe space for me to be and, and the first thing to do, know thyself. So in the centre of this room is a big chest and we've got to open that chest, it's locked, right, it's all, it's on lockdown. And it, yes. We're going to open that chest and in there might be some murky stuff. But this is also our gold, right? So remember that our, all, every single thing we've been through has made us, you know, we are who we are today because of all of those experiences, the good and the bad and everything in between.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  And what we want to do is just be with all of it because we turn the trauma into wisdom. Okay, because it is our wisdom. Our, whatever we've experienced, when we bring that into the light, we open the chest and we're like, okay, I'm gonna take my inner child out of this chest right now and I'm gonna put her on the sofa and I'm gonna hang out with her. And I'm gonna let her know that it's, it's okay to be here. It's okay to be in the room. It's okay to be noisy. It's okay to be artistic. It's okay to be shy. It's okay to be, you know, it's okay to cry. Whatever you want to do, do it. I'm here adulting. That's what reparenting is all about.

• 43:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  And it's safe. It's safe to be you. So that moment is an integration. That moment, she's not stuffed away in that box anymore. This is a treasure trove. She becomes, she's added to your energy in a beautiful, bright way because she is beautiful and bright. Right? That's why we want her back. We don't want her stuffed away in the darkness. So these things, the reason why the return to childhood is important is because we, we are recovering parts of ourselves. And, you know, shamans call it soul retrieval. You know, psychotherapists call it, um, you know, the, the, these are the abandoned parts, the abandoned parts of ourselves. But we really learn about how we abandon ourselves by understanding how our child was abandoned.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Because that is a pattern, right? So however your child is abandoned is how you'll abandon yourself. So guess what? We've got to go back to her and we've got to get her on the sofa. We've got to feed her properly. We've got to tell her that she's okay. We've got to say it's gonna be all right. We've got to tell her that she's beautiful. We've got to say, yeah, you know what? You, you're actually quite good at writing or drawing or singing. Or don't worry if you've got dyslexia, we'll figure it out. So these, these, these are the things that she is yearning for still inside you. So while she stays in, while she stays in that, in the, in the treasure trove, okay? That, that little voice, she's calling to you. And every time you say, no, no, no, no, no, you're leaving her in the cold. And that's what I always say to people.

• 44:52Speaker 03

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• 45:54Speaker 06

  It's time.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  It's the most wonderful time of the year. Halloween.

• 46:02Speaker 04

  And you guys know we don't do Halloween by halves. Full costume, full prosthetics, full commitment. I'm a rat. And I'm the chef. It's our Ratatouille special. Ben, we're grabbing our broomsticks for the witches.

• 46:15Speaker 04

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• 46:31Fearne Cotton?

  The word abandoning feels really key because I, I can look back and think, you know, probably again yesterday, I completely abandoned myself. I know I do. I just go, I'm ditching you. Bye. See you later. I'm checking out. And actually, it was so interesting yesterday. I was talking to a friend and I said, I know that sometimes when people are talking to me, I've checked out and I'm listening. But I've, I've thought of a hundred other things because everything's too intense. And I wanna do a bit of a runner. And they went, oh yeah, no, I know you do that. I was like, you know I do that. Yeah, I can see it in your eyes. What do you mean? You've checked out. I thought I was just discreetly doing that, but I,

• 47:14Fearne Cotton?

  I can sense when I'm doing it, when I'm like, it's all too much. Eject. And I'm just, I've, you know, I've shot off somewhere. I can't handle it. And I think probably a lot of that, again, is to do with, you know, being exposed to lots of different people and feedback and just, putting my fingers in my ears and going blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think, once you've, you've recognised that, okay, someone told me I was this one. Somebody said I shouldn't do that. And you're, you know, and we're now talking about, we need to parent that younger version of ourselves. Then we're at the place where maybe it's habit, it's habit that enables us to not abandon ourselves so often perhaps. And start to rebuild new neural pathways, new more positive habits, not trying to be a perfect person, but just to write some of those

• 48:00Fearne Cotton?

  little slippery slopes we end up on. What then? How are we manifesting? Let's get to the bit where we are, we've got a clearer idea of who the hell we are. And now we're looking to the future or the person we wanna end up being or the sort of life we wanna lead. Where do we even begin?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Well, when we return and we, we're in that place, we actually know what it is that brings us joy. So like, like we've spoken about already, the things that we thought may have brought us joy. So I see that a lot, you know, in my practice. People come to see me and they're like, I'm this high-powered person and, and, and. But now I'm thinking, this isn't making me happy. So we, we get to allow that question in, okay? Remember before, we wouldn't even, we wouldn't dare look at that question because we're so defined by the mask, by the role, by, you know, how we've survived, how we've made ourselves palatable, how we've made ourselves lovable and accepted and, you know. I'm defined by this, look at this. And actually, when we we get into this place of bringing all these parts back to ourselves,

• 49:03Speaker 02

  then we we kind of like, hmm, I don't really feel that I need that anymore. I want to look at this. This is where my, this is the sort of life I want, I want to lead. This is where I I I find my joy. And that truth, because ultimately, when, what is it, what does it mean to live your truth, speak your truth and be your truth? The truth has more power than anything else. And so as a frequency, when we talk about frequency and vibrations, everything's made up of energy.

• 49:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  When we're in sort of embodying that truth, that's when we get to really manifest. So that's when we sort of, and we can manifest in the beginning, allow your vision board. I mean, I've got a whole chapter, it's called the Cosmic Canvas and a whole chapter about manifesting. Allow it to, as you're getting to know yourself, to sort of be quite malleable. Like, it doesn't have to be, I want this job or, you know, it can't, but maybe it's, I want a job that really makes me, makes my heart sing. I want a job that I get, I want to get up and do, but also pays the bills. You know, obviously, all of these things are real, this is real life. But you can, you you you you can afford to give yourself permission to want and and to to experience more joy.

• 50:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think that feels more sensible than pinning everything, because I've done that. I've thought, I'm going to write this book, it has to be a Sunday Times bestseller. And all these silly, lofty, very specific things, that I'm setting myself up for failure immediately. Because if that exact thing doesn't happen, then I, you know, I feel like shit. Because I've pinned every bit of happiness. But actually, if you go, I guess, more for a feeling, I want the outcome to make me feel worthy and loved or excited or joyful, whatever it is. That feels like a much more sensible plan to to go for feeling rather than a a direct outcome. And I guess, again, that's probably the Instagrammable manifesting trope is.

• 50:56Fearne Cotton?

  You know, you want that thing, go, you know, it's yours, go get it, rather than how do I wanna feel?

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:01Fearne Cotton?

  How do I wanna feel?

• 51:02Speaker 02

  The feeling is a really important part of that because, because the universe does respond to the, to feelings when we're embodying feelings. The universe also responds to specifics, so it does respond to specifics, but what would be really useful is to think, you know, that feeling and embodying that feeling of like, I feel so complete. I've written this book and I'm feeling on top of the world because so many people have sent me messages saying, how it's changed their life or how they love this book or, you know, and we don't have to get into the Sunday time, we don't have to get into, but it's actually that feedback and, and also what you're seeding, I'm seeding the novelist in me, the great novelist in me. I'm meeting the great novelist that this lifetime, my destiny, you know, forget about all of the stuff on the outside.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Think about the moment, you know, because remember life is so short, it's long and it's short, it's so brief. So when we take our last breaths on, on the planet and we look back at the lifetime, you know, just to have met the great novelist in you is enough, is more than enough because we can trust that the great novelist in you is great. And she's gonna write some phenomenal books and they're gonna be, you know, whether it's this one or the next one or the third one, is, is stays on the New York, New York Times bestseller list for, you know, 10 weeks or 10 months or 10 years, whatever. It's coming because actually this underbelly, this deeper thing of my destiny, my joy, like I'm going for my truth, I'm just,

• 52:25Speaker 02

  like, let her be great. So that sends different types of messaging, you know, it's different types, it's not fear based.

• 52:32Fearne Cotton?

  No, and also I think what we get obsessed with is timing, like we go, well, I've done eight, boards, mood boards, and I've been saying this affirmation for the last six months on repeat and it's not happening and, what, it doesn't work. We think that this stuff is a linear timescale. If it hasn't happened within 12 months, we go, I'm ditching it, I'm out, this is, it's clearly not working, whereas I don't think linear time necessarily correlates to what we're talking about here.

• 53:01Speaker 02

  It it it does and it doesn't. So it's again, it's both, but it's like, it's how we approach the thing. So again, like what I'm hearing behind your approach is that.

• 53:12Fearne Cotton?

  It's not happening quick enough.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there's a.

• 53:15Fearne Cotton?

  I'm impatient. I'm a Virgo. I've got shit to do. Why is my manifestation not happening today?

• 53:21Speaker 02

  I was about to say it's quite Virgs, right?

• 53:22Fearne Cotton?

  Very Virgs.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  It's very Virgs, yeah. And I get that because I'm a Virg, so I am rising sign Virgo, so I get that myself. It it's when we do manifesting, we do have to go, it's not white knuckle, okay? So we have to really think about, it is energy and it does work. So I will say that, like, it does actually work. But there are some tweaks that have to happen in there. And one of them is the letting go, that the surrendering part is really important.

• 53:45Fearne Cotton?

  That's hard, isn't it?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:46Fearne Cotton?

  I'm not very good at that.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that thing about, because, because remember, well, that remember, so remember that control.

• 53:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  Remember the trust, when the lack of trust is not trusting the universe and it is white knuckling.

• 53:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  And you're in something. So then, when we think about the vibration, you're sending out a vibration with your manifestation that's like, happen now, happen now, happen now.

• 54:06Fearne Cotton?

  It's fraught.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  It's fraught, right? So what we have to do is just go.

• 54:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  It's just, I'm gonna let you go. And sometimes to create that new neural pathway, because it's not easy. I'm not saying it's the easiest thing in the world, but it's possible and we can do it. We just have to say every time, I let you go.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  New York Times bestseller, Sunday Times bestseller, I'm putting it out there and I let you go.

• 54:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  And it really, but with that, with that, that intention.

• 54:33Fearne Cotton?

  We're not clinging on. We're not clinging on.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Clinging on is fear. Clinging on is I don't trust. Clinging on is it's not gonna happen. I don't, I I'm clinging on because I don't believe you. I'm clinging on because I don't believe me. Okay, so it's that thing of, I'm like, I'm just gonna let you go.

• 54:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, this is ringing true. As well as making perhaps a vision board, are there other very practical things that we can do? Whether it's daily or weekly or when inspiration strikes that we have a feeling of the direction we want to head in? What can we be doing to help us really stay on track in a non-toxic way?

• 55:14Fearne Cotton?

  With letting go in mind, just to get us in the, again, habit of thinking positively, rewriting this negative self-talk we've got to to move in the right direction.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Well, again, I mean, there's different ways to do that. So if it's a wellness hack or, you know, affirmations, do they do work? Affirmations do work. So you can.

• 55:34Fearne Cotton?

  I love Louise Hay, big fan.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Well, Louise Hay is amazing. So she's my publisher. And actually, what happened with Louise Hay, that was one of the first books that I read, You Can Heal Your Life.

• 55:43Fearne Cotton?

  Incredible book.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Which is, which is incredible.

• 55:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 55:45Speaker 02

  And she breaks it down. So she breaks down mirror work, you know, standing in front of the mirror and speaking to yourself, because often what happens is we hate the the image of ourselves. Like, we can't even look in the mirror and say, I love you. Can't even look in the mirror and say, you're beautiful. So it's a really good place to start. There are some, there are some very basic, but very effective wellness hacks that work. The mirror work's one of them. Affirmations is another. I feel like, um, actually, watching the cycles, more people have tuned into this now. I've been doing full meditations for over 25 years. But one of the reasons why, and I've, I, is because it brings you

• 56:26Speaker 02

  into a kind of, a bit of a momentum, a bit of a cycle, that just noticing the cycles, the sacred cycles that are existing, and being in relationship with those two. Because actually, then we start to, because a lot of the stuff, a lot of the time we spend in our heads worrying, what we want to do is take ourselves out of our heads and and we want to just be, right? So that being really supports our manifestation, really supports our manifestation, just that, those moments of alignment, just, you know, and that's why taking a few moments to just breathe, to meditate, but if you haven't got time to just do an affirmation on the bus, and I also say, on your way to work or whatever it is, but noticing the full moons and the new moons, because they happen every two weeks,

• 57:10Speaker 02

  and they're quite a nice. Every two weeks and then every, every, every four weeks. And also depending on the moon, depending on the full moon, you get to release whatever that full moon is about. So each full moon has a different medicine. So, you know, Virgo full moon will be in its, in its light side, you know, we can harness the power of, of organisation and getting things done and, you know, really so in sort of intelligent and really creative. Amazing problem solvers Virgo, we want to harness that, but then in the shadow can be over critical, can be, you know, really um over controlling all of those things. So we get to every month, look at the full moon and then release what it is, whatever we, we get to just think about that thing.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Sort of, okay, this is a full moon in Aries and I, I can be sometimes too impatient or I can, you know, and I don't finish things and I need to let that go. So that can really help just in terms of bringing us back into whatever that, the, our sort of true essence, really.

• 58:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think like you're saying, moments of rest are so key because when it comes to manifesting and the way that it's talked about today, it does feel like it's this actionable relentless thing that we need to be doing rather than having the moments where you are cognizant of what you want and, and how you're moving towards it, teamed with moments of nothing.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:33Fearne Cotton?

  Which we're so bad at.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:34Fearne Cotton?

  And that feels like a healthy way of looking at manifesting rather than you've just got to keep focused and you've got to keep thinking of this thought and you've got to keep moving in this direction. It's actually about having those moments where you're doing sweet F A and you're just being. We're all bad at that.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Well, remember with all of these things, I mean, ultimately what we want, what we're, what we're all looking for is we're looking, all of us are looking to, to feel peace and to feel joy.

• 59:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  But mostly to feel like we're enough, okay? Ultimately, it's all about, did I allow myself to love, you know, and did I love like, but to the, to fully, you know, did I love myself fully? And so that's all it's all about, okay? And when manifestation comes in as a practice and it's not helping you. Towards that, you know, it's not helping you with that. Remember, we, we, we do these things concurrently, like, stay, stay curious, you know, you can have a practice, but stay curious. It's not about just getting wrapped up in that prac- in that, in that practice. And, you know, giving ourselves a hard time every day about, about that practice and how we're getting it wrong. How we're not showing up to that, because that just becomes like everything else. It's just a rod to kind of, you know,

• 59:43Speaker 02

  give us a hard time, you know, to beat us with. It's not about that. It's, it's about this bigger picture of coming back to ourselves, you know, manifesting ultimately is just, when we're in flow, we just manifest also, we just, we just, we're in flow. So, you know, we're, we're in the flow of who we are. And as you show up more authentically every day, you speak your truth, you, you speak your boundaries. You say, I like this and I don't like that. I love that, that about you, but that's really hard for me. What happens there is we're manifesting the life of our dreams, right? And, and ultimately, that, that vision board, I, I want that, I want that car, I want the, that's just gonna be manifesting more of that. Okay. And ultimately, that doesn't bring us happiness.

• 1:00:28Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  What brings us happiness is I'm in the car I wanna drive. And I also, I, I'm enough. I'm enough without the car that I wanna drive, you know, so, so it's this thing, it's this thing of really not getting swept up in these, in these kind of zeitgeists of, you know, oh, this is a, a thing, you know, a, a energy is, we, we, we're all energy and, and this is what we need to spend our lives doing. But it's, we, we, we wanna spend our time feeling, you know, where's our happy place, right? Like, that ultimately, when all said and done, and it's, you can see that anywhere, like in, in all of the things that happen around the world. You know, when you're running from a fire, what do you take? Right? You take your, you, you, obviously your family, but your, your cat, your dog, you just wanna get out of there.

• 1:01:14Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Right? And also, it's, it's, this is, this is all we, this is what we have. This is, we're born alone, we die alone. And, and this is, this is what the lifetime is about. So let this, you know, let this be your manifestation. And when we talk about manifest your true essence, let this be your greatest manifestation. Your return to yourself, you know, that's the greatest manifestation. It's the greatest gift you can ever give yourself.

• 1:01:38Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. Oh my God. Alleluia. Where is your happy place, Estelle?

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good question. My happy place really ultimately is with my animals. It's, you know, I have my son, he he's he is my happy place, you know, you know what we know what motherhood is like.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  And it's sort of, you know, but these and my partner and, you know, it's the people that I love. But also I really get a lot of support from nature. So I need to go out into nature. I do to I do the walks like. Everything that people talk about, you know, I I that's that is on Instagram, it does work. So when you go for a really good walk or even twenty minutes, actually. You get to rewire the brain, you know, the brain just rewires. So. My happy place are those moments of silence, I and but and but then it's also dancing on tables because I love, you know, I'm a Sagittarius moon. I love a party. I saw a meme on the way in today and it was like this one person with a DJ and like the one person because the.

• 1:02:40Fearne Cotton?

  Left.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  The DJ keeps playing great tunes and I'm like, and I'm not, that's me, yeah. Completely like that's me and I'm usually there with my, you know, with my iPod doing whatever, you know, with my phone. But basically, it's like, it's all of it, really. The moments of the moments of silence, the moments of connection. Being in nature, being around my animals, being around people I love, being around my friends and dancing on tables.

• 1:03:05Fearne Cotton?

  Dancing on table. It can all exist at the same time, as we've discussed.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:10Fearne Cotton?

  Um, this, I mean, it's absolutely flown. It I feel like we've really knuckled down on what manifesting is in. It's truest form without the bullshit, without the the glaze of Instagram. We've got to the bare bones of it and that is exactly what I wanted to do and I'm extremely grateful and love spending time with you. Thank you, Estelle.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  It's been such a privilege. Thank you for having me, Fern, so much. I've absolutely loved it.

• 1:03:37Fearne Cotton?

  Oh God, Estelle, that was for me like having a little therapy session. I bounded out of that studio feeling ready to conquer the world, manifesting and my own precious heart. Um, Estelle's book, Manifest Your True Essence is out on April the 8th. I would preorder your copy now if I were you. I've read it and it's fucking great. As ever, these big conversations don't end here. What I really want is for the podcast to be a jumping off point for your own chats that you go and have with your mates and with yourself, actually, once the episode is over, if poss. And of course, we can carry on exploring everything together on Instagram, at Happy Place Official is where you'll find us. A massive thanks to Estelle, to the producer, Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and

• 1:04:21Fearne Cotton?

  to you. Go and say something lovely to yourself in the mirror now, you beauties.

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