The Ridley Scott Movie Rankings and ‘The Dog Stars’

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to discuss the newest release from his guy Ridley Scott in ‘The Dog Stars’ starring Jacob Elordi and Margaret Qualley. They share their takeaways from the movie, debate Elordi’s performance and evolution as an actor, and assess where the film fits within Scott’s career. Before diving into ‘The Dog Stars’, they reflect on the passing of Dolly Parton and Tim Curry, celebrating their remarkable careers and discussing what each of them meant personally. Then, they check in on the latest James Bond casting race and debate the strongest candidates among the six remaining contenders, before touching on Ryan Gosling’s developing ‘Flintstones’ project and whether it means Chris’s king is officially dead. Finally, Sean, Amanda, and Chris take on the daunting task of ranking all 30 films in Ridley Scott’s vast filmography. (0:00) Intro (1:16) Dolly Parton and Tim Curry (5:51) The next James Bond (15:46) Ryan Gosling ‘Flintstones’ spin-off (19:23) ‘The Dog Stars’ (50:33) Talking Ridley Scott (1:02:53) The Ridley Scott Movie Rankings Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders Editor: Jamie Yukich Production Support: Sarah Reddy and Lucas Cavanagh It's on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:17Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fennessey.

• 2:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 2:18Sean Fennessey?

  And this is the Big Picture at Conversation show about Ridley Scott. Today on the show, we're reviewing The Dog Stars, a searing biopic of Keanu Reeves' beloved alternative rock band. Just kidding! We're talking about Ridley Scott's new movie, his 30th, a post-apocalyptic thriller starring Jacob Elordi, and we are ranking every single Ridley movie with our buddy Chris Ryan. We'll do it all, plus some movie news, right after this. Okay, bud, what's up?

• 2:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Hi. No laptop.

• 2:43Speaker 06

  Not for now. Maybe when we get to the rankings, but I do feel like I almost remember my rankings.

• 2:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:49Speaker 06

  I've committed that to memory. The big picture, it's just, it's second nature to me now.

• 2:52Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 2:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:53Sean Fennessey?

  Comes that easily. And yet, still questions about third chair.

• 2:56Speaker 06

  We don't have to get into that.

• 2:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 2:57Speaker 06

  I don't want to. I feel like we're giving it more oxygen by discussing it all the time.

• 3:02Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, who's "we"?

• 3:03Speaker 06

  Uh, just like this podcast, by talking about whether or not there's any... Like, I'm battling guys on all fronts.

• 3:10Sean Fennessey?

  Did you feel that Bill threw his hat in the ring?

• 3:12Amanda Dobbins?

  What kind of hat?

• 3:16Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, let's talk about some movie news. Very sad news. Two, two very sad deaths. Two 80-year-old icons, figures that are very notable to our youths and the youths of many. Dolly Parton, who passed away yesterday, as did the actor Tim Curry. And they both have a fascinating, sort of like modestly scaled experience, for me personally, but very impactful and very memorable. Dolly, how do you feel?

• 3:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Sad. I mean, and it is, it is a loss not just to the country music world and to movies, because she obviously had a huge impact, both on and off-screen. But, you know, not to the state of Tennessee, not just to the state of Tennessee, where I didn't grow up, but my family did. And I have, I have been to Dollywood. I have, I have toured the, the museums. I have ridden the log flume. I know what it is to be in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. But like the world at large, she was just one of the last great, good people, you know? Always on the side of right. And so she'd obviously, she'd been sick for a while. She'd been canceling appearances for the last few months and like, you know, sending updates, but, but you could tell.

• 4:26Amanda Dobbins?

  And so hopefully she is, you know, more at peace now. But it's, it was one of those where I felt like for the first 24 hours, everyone reminded you of like, and another thing, and remember how she just paid for the Moderna vaccine? And like, you know, I think my child knows how to read because of Dolly Parton. And all of these things are true. You know, that great Eminem shared the letter that she wrote him when they were inducted into the rock and roll, or he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Music Hall of Fame.

• 4:52Sean Fennessey?

  I love that. It's, that's a beautiful thing.

• 4:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Sean Fennessey?

  So he was sort of like, I'm not, no hip-hop expert, but I know that you're the best. And I really just appreciate your light and everything that you're bringing to art.

• 5:05Speaker 06

  That was the thing that jumped out at me. Obviously, somebody and of vanishing amount of people who have the approval rating of somebody like Dolly Parton. But I really thought it was cool, the, the way at which it seemed to impact the artistic community around her and the way like her peers and colleagues and the people who are inspired by her, everybody from like Sabrina Carpenter to Jack White, to whatever have been reacting to it. I mean, obviously, just a huge loss.

• 5:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And in the world of movies, she made a real impact. She didn't star in too many films. Really only this kind of 10-year period in the 80s and 90s where she was leading films like Nine to Five, Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, twice nominated for an Academy Award. Just last year, she was, received the Gene Herschel Humanitarian Award for her work in part with children's education. She's helped deliver millions of books to kids around this country. So, like, truly an iconic figure. The rare, decent mega-celebrity.

• 6:03Speaker 06

  True.

• 6:03Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I feel like I know too much about celebrity culture at large now, and it's so frequently heartbreaking. And didn't hear a single bad thing about Dolly Parton in my entire life, so...

• 6:13Amanda Dobbins?

  And I don't want to now.

• 6:14Sean Fennessey?

  Nor do I.

• 6:14Speaker 06

  You're still reeling from what you found out about Mark Walter. You thought he was just like...

• 6:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I thought he was the new Andrew Carnegie, you know? I thought, I thought we could believe in him and build a country around his ideas. You know, Tim Curry is sort of the opposite in that he is, was a famously very private man and wanted his legacy to be his roles on screen. And his roles on screen were huge and outrageous. Rocky Horror Picture Show, Legend, My Beloved Congo, My Beloved Clue.

• 6:41Speaker 06

  Hunt for October.

• 6:42Sean Fennessey?

  Hunt for October, It, as he was the original Pennywise in It, Muppet Treasure Island for the 90s kids, and...

• 6:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Home Alone 2, Lost in New York.

• 6:51Sean Fennessey?

  Who can forget?

• 6:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Never forget.

• 6:53Sean Fennessey?

  Who can forget? What is his credit card line? He's got one line delivered about the credit card. Totally memorable, but like an unmistakable screen presence. Also, a great and trained and skilled actor who performed on the West End for years and was in many, many, many great theatrical productions.

• 7:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Did he originate the role of Amadeus?

• 7:11Sean Fennessey?

  I believe he did.

• 7:12Amanda Dobbins?

  In the, in the play that was then turned...

• 7:14Speaker 06

  Oh, I had no idea.

• 7:15Sean Fennessey?

  I believe he did, in 1980.

• 7:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I think that's something that I learned after his passing.

• 7:19Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 7:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Um, and, you know, somebody who, for me, is in the wallpaper of movies, you know, who's somebody who was always a part of movies because I watched so many of these movies at such a critical age. And I remember seeing him as darkness in Legend at a young age, which is a real kind of gateway movie for me in terms of both fantasy and horror. And, and freaking out when I saw what he really looked like out of the makeup and that being a real movie magic moment for me. But I just loved him as an actor. I thought he was always a ton of fun in movies. So he's a big loss as well. Um, let's, let's pivot to James Bond.

• 7:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 7:54Speaker 06

  Oh, sure. Okay.

• 7:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 7:56Sean Fennessey?

  We've been intermittently covering this ongoing discussion about who's going to be the next James Bond. Just yesterday in Page Six, there was a report that the, the race to be cast as the next James Bond has been narrowed down to six men.

• 8:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Which in, according to many people, means that's actually, it's been widened from two to six because we weren't happy with our options.

• 8:17Sean Fennessey?

  So who, who were the two, in your mind?

• 8:19Amanda Dobbins?

  I had heard a lot of unsourced and scuttlebutt that it was between Callum Turner and Jacob Elordi.

• 8:27Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 8:27Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and now we just have some more names. Those two men are still in the running, but no one has nailed it down yet.

• 8:35Speaker 06

  And then there was another, and forgive me for not remembering where I read this, but another report that was about how it could be someone we don't, we don't know anything about. It would be like a wide casting call.

• 8:47Sean Fennessey?

  An unknown.

• 8:48Speaker 06

  Pluck this guy out of like a Netflix series somewhere, and it's going to be James Bond.

• 8:52Sean Fennessey?

  Well, you know, I think it's fair to say that one of the names, and the most surprising name that I saw was Jack Barton, who is another actor on Heartstopper, a show I don't watch, and whose work I'm less familiar with relative to the other five men who are up for this, which is Jack Loudon, Callum Turner, Jacob Elordi, Paul Meskell, and Harris Dickinson. So, you know, those are five of the most well-known under 40 Irish-British actors around.

• 9:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 9:20Sean Fennessey?

  Um...

• 9:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Plus Jacob Elordi.

• 9:22Sean Fennessey?

  An Australian as well.

• 9:23Amanda Dobbins?

  And then an Australian. And I, I think that that is material.

• 9:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Given the role and the history of who has played the role.

• 9:30Sean Fennessey?

  We've had an English, Irish, and Australian Bond before, right? So that wouldn't be shocking.

• 9:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 9:35Sean Fennessey?

  Any thought, who are you rooting for?

• 9:37Speaker 06

  I, on a personal affection level, Jack Loudon, but also may have played himself out of the role by being so good as a spy on Slow Horses.

• 9:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, he is Mr. Darcy in the upcoming Netflix Pride and Prejudice. And I really honestly can't have Mr. Darcy also be James Bond. Like, that, that's deeply...

• 9:56Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 9:56Amanda Dobbins?

  That's too overwhelming. And at what point does like, you know, continue on break?

• 10:01Speaker 06

  There's, there's...

• 10:02Sean Fennessey?

  The Amanda Continuum of popular culture?

• 10:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes!

• 10:05Speaker 06

  I'm really battling myself here because on one hand, like, his performance as River Cartwright is excellent. The next season of Slow Horses is fantastic. It's, that's coming out in September. He actually is, you know, phenomenal in this season and gets to be paired off with Gary Oldman quite a bit, which is a real delight. Part of me wants him to get Bond just to see if the Saoirse Ronan Bond villain thing happens, which she has been publicly advocating and campaigning for in somewhat of a tongue-in-cheek way, but...

• 10:37Sean Fennessey?

  Would be delicious if he were cast.

• 10:38Speaker 06

  I would prefer him to Meskell. I would prefer him to Elordi.

• 10:46Speaker 06

  I'm like, pretty okay. I'd be happy with Jack O'Connell. I think that would be. Well, yeah, wouldn't we all?

• 10:52Amanda Dobbins?

  But he should be.

• 10:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's not. He's not in the Page Six Report.

• 10:55Speaker 06

  Okay, sorry.

• 10:56Sean Fennessey?

  He would. He would be my pick.

• 10:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 10:58Sean Fennessey?

  Just because as an actor, he's my favorite of those actors. And we'll talk a little bit more about Alordi when we get into the Dog Stars today.

• 11:03Amanda Dobbins?

  What? Just so on the overlapping breaking Amanda's space-time continuum, can you have Paul McCartney and/or John Lennon also being James Bond? That's confusing.

• 11:13Sean Fennessey?

  To me, he is not James Bond.

• 11:14Amanda Dobbins?

  That's Paul Mescal and Harris Dickinson. I'm just, I'm just pointing it out, you know?

• 11:19Sean Fennessey?

  Harris Dickinson, I think we know as an artiste, as a cineast. That that would seem like an odd casting. I do think he has the appropriate look and style that would be a pivot away from previous Bonds, but still fit.

• 11:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And a second blonde Bond.

• 11:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. But also even a different kind of blonde, like it wouldn't be a replication of Craig, who was sort of more shorter and stout and more powerful.

• 11:44Speaker 06

  Do you think this Bond will wear barrel jeans?

• 11:50Amanda Dobbins?

  They can't. I mean, they can't have any of these guys be modern Bond, right? They have to do a retro.

• 11:55Sean Fennessey?

  I wonder.

• 11:55Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 11:56Sean Fennessey?

  That's an interesting question.

• 11:57Amanda Dobbins?

  But I mean, I'm open to it, I guess.

• 11:59Speaker 06

  Bond on hinge.

• 12:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Can we do a Bond running check for a second? Because we're gonna talk more about the Dog Stars later in this episode. But I do wanna check in now that we have recent evidence of Jacob Alordi running on screen to compare with recent evidence of Callum Turner running on screen, for those of us who saw One Night Only.

• 12:17Sean Fennessey?

  Not yet.

• 12:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Me and me only. So just to recap for you, Callum Turner, some work to do. It's not very ergonomic. It's sort of like a chicken dance situation when running.

• 12:26Sean Fennessey?

  I heard you discussing this.

• 12:27Amanda Dobbins?

  And I would say that Jacob Alordi is more aerodynamic. He doesn't look silly while running around in the Dog Stars.

• 12:35Sean Fennessey?

  A couple of things. One of the reasons I think why I'm intrigued by Jack Loudon is because he, he just, he seems height appropriate. Also, I'll say to your point about slow horses, you know, Pierce Brosnan was Remington Steele. Like, there, there is a history of sort of like pre-auditioning for Bond by showing that you can do components of the work before getting the job.

• 12:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Those slow horses is a different interpretation of the work and its components.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  Gets his ass kicked all the time.

• 12:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's just like, oh shit, I did the wrong thing.

• 13:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's gonna be interesting to see how classical Villeneuve wants to go with the storytelling. You know, does he want this to just be tuxedoed, shaken, not stirred? Or does he want it to be something even more modern than what Craig was able to pull off? I don't, we're gonna find out. But these, three of these guys are really fucking tall.

• 13:17Speaker 06

  And did?

• 13:18Amanda Dobbins?

  You're saying that like it's a bad thing.

• 13:20Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not saying it's a bad.

• 13:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And like, you're also not a tall person.

• 13:22Speaker 06

  But he's not Jacob Alordi tall.

• 13:24Sean Fennessey?

  I'm not 6'5". I mean, that's, that's a lot.

• 13:27Amanda Dobbins?

  And that's to your loss, so.

• 13:29Sean Fennessey?

  I'm getting along just fine. But I would say my height is Bond height.

• 13:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, interesting.

• 13:36Sean Fennessey?

  Now, that might be the only thing about me that is Bondish. But I think, I think six feet, and I don't even know how tall Brosnan or Connery or how tall those guys were.

• 13:44Speaker 06

  Do you think you would be a good 007, like practically speaking?

• 13:47Sean Fennessey?

  No. I think I love to drink martinis.

• 13:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. You doesn't really like international travel.

• 13:53Sean Fennessey?

  That's not true.

• 13:54Amanda Dobbins?

  You do like gadgets.

• 13:55Sean Fennessey?

  I sure do.

• 13:56Speaker 06

  I just think it would be so funny if

• 13:57Amanda Dobbins?

  That would be my problem.

• 13:58Speaker 06

  They were trying to get in touch with you because there is a nuclear missile aimed at England and you were like, oh, sorry, I was at an Austrian film.

• 14:04Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell you what, it would, it would be not surprising if I were distracted from time spent with a glamorous woman by my work. That is something that, you know, has happened from time to time. So I can relate to that component, you know? Sorry, wish I could lounge on the beach with you, my dear, with the, you know, insinuating name. I have to go hang out with Q.

• 14:24Speaker 06

  Anon.

• 14:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Sean Fennessey?

  What about you?

• 14:28Speaker 06

  Do I think I'd be a good Bond? No, I'm too short, apparently.

• 14:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I wasn't aware that there was such a narrow height range. According to you, the person who cares the least about Bond at this table.

• 14:39Sean Fennessey?

  That's very true. That's very true. I am intrigued by this kind of thing, though, as you know. This is, this is, this is the fun of movies.

• 14:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I just wanna go on record and say that I do not think Jacob Alordi or Harris Dickinson are too tall to be James Bond or anything else.

• 14:54Speaker 06

  They're not gonna put this out in 2028, though.

• 14:57Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 14:58Speaker 06

  They can't. They can't do it to us.

• 15:00Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, just because that's too important a year?

• 15:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's just like, that's.

• 15:03Sean Fennessey?

  Because that's the vice year.

• 15:04Speaker 06

  We're gonna go on Twitch for 365 days.

• 15:06Sean Fennessey?

  The heat two year.

• 15:07Speaker 06

  In, in 2028.

• 15:09Sean Fennessey?

  Twitch?

• 15:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, sure. Like, stream. We'll just stream.

• 15:12Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I just saw a foreign film this morning. And one of the characters in the film was, you know, 30-year-old woman laying in bed, playing video games. And I was like,

• 15:22Speaker 06

  Hot?

• 15:24Sean Fennessey?

  Is this it? Is this the way? Like, is this, is this where maybe my 50s be defined by, like, acting like this?

• 15:30Speaker 06

  Acting like her or getting your wife to start playing video games?

• 15:34Sean Fennessey?

  Why not both?

• 15:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 15:36Sean Fennessey?

  Thoughts?

• 15:36Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I know the film in question, and I wonder if there's anything else from that that you wanna imitate and import into your own life.

• 15:43Sean Fennessey?

  No, we'll get into that.

• 15:43Speaker 06

  Do you think we'll play Resident Evil 2 on some sort of gaming platform for people's entertainment?

• 15:48Sean Fennessey?

  You wanna do that?

• 15:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:49Sean Fennessey?

  Well, that's the key inspiration for Zach Craigers film.

• 15:51Speaker 06

  That's why.

• 15:51Sean Fennessey?

  Of which I've heard nothing about screenings, no communication whatsoever about this movie. I tried, looked into seeing if there were pre-sales available, not on sale.

• 15:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 15:59Sean Fennessey?

  The film comes out in 21 days. That's fascinating, considering where things are right now with Dune tickets and AMC's app crashing and Doomsday and all that.

• 16:08Amanda Dobbins?

  And Zach Craigor and the anticipation.

• 16:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 16:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I do feel like I saw, you know, a poster for it at the movie theater yesterday.

• 16:16Sean Fennessey?

  Sure. There's a second trailer. They're, they're, they're marketing it, but it's not the same frenzy. But I, I think it's actually gonna be quite big.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  Me too.

• 16:23Sean Fennessey?

  Because there's also gonna be this wide gap between a very popular movie coming out.

• 16:28Speaker 06

  There's also just like, across generations, many men have reached out to me and been like, I like Resident Evil.

• 16:34Amanda Dobbins?

  That's beautiful.

• 16:35Sean Fennessey?

  It is nice.

• 16:35Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, you guys didn't have anything to unite you, so it's good that you have this.

• 16:39Sean Fennessey?

  Will you play it is really the question. Would you play Resident Evil 2 with us?

• 16:43Amanda Dobbins?

  What happens in Resident Evil? Tell me about it. Tell me about the world. Tell me.

• 16:49Speaker 06

  Well, it's the film or the, the video games.

• 16:51Amanda Dobbins?

  The video game. You're asking me to play a video game. Tell me.

• 16:54Speaker 06

  Well, in the video game, you get to play as a woman named Claire, who arrives in a city called Raccoon City.

• 16:58Sean Fennessey?

  Centering a woman's story.

• 16:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I or A?

• 17:00Speaker 06

  Claire, A-I-R-E.

• 17:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 17:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I can't remember a lot of the vagaries of her character, but you have to solve a lot of puzzles and kill a lot of zombies.

• 17:10Amanda Dobbins?

  What a surprise.

• 17:12Sean Fennessey?

  It's a zombie apocalypse game, a survival first-person shooter game.

• 17:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 17:17Speaker 06

  One of the reasons why video games are so popular is that you get to project your own stuff onto the characters because you're playing as them. So it would be for you, you know, whatever you're going through that day, you're Claire.

• 17:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. What time of day would we be doing this?

• 17:30Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 17:34Amanda Dobbins?

  You want me to make a commitment? I'm asking the questions.

• 17:37Sean Fennessey?

  Chris and I will come over at midnight on a Tuesday. Yeah. I don't know. It's a good idea. And I'm interested, but I don't wanna be on Twitch. Speaking of things I don't want.

• 17:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 17:48Sean Fennessey?

  Ryan Gosling reportedly is developing a Flintstones spinoff movie centered on the character Bam Bam, who I guess is Barney and Betty's son. I've seen The Flintstones many times.

• 18:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, he has very, very blonde hair, like white blonde hair. And he, he has like a club that he uses as a baseball bat.

• 18:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, to say Bam Bam.

• 18:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Bam Bam.

• 18:12Speaker 06

  Is there any way in this world where this is saber rattling to Mattel and Warner Brothers to make the Barbie deal? And he's like, if you guys don't do this soon, I'm just gonna go be a Flintstone, and then I can't be Ken, you know?

• 18:28Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's a very generous interpretation.

• 18:32Speaker 06

  Yes. Otherwise, my king is dead.

• 18:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 18:37Amanda Dobbins?

  My interpretation was like, is he somehow gonna make this into a prequel for Barbie and connect the various universes? Because if you think about the character of Bam Bam and the character of Ken as interpreted by Ryan Gosling, not that different.

• 18:52Speaker 06

  Well, that's what I'm wondering. You know what I mean? Like, is it basically like, I'll just take my money and, and go over here then?

• 18:59Sean Fennessey?

  It's certainly possible. It just said that the film is, he's developing the film with his production company. It did not say that he would be starring as Bam Bam. I think that's notable.

• 19:08Speaker 06

  That's true.

• 19:09Sean Fennessey?

  I do think Bam Bam.

• 19:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Adult Bam Bam.

• 19:11Sean Fennessey?

  In this development is meant to be the teenage Bam Bam who we see in later season. There's like a spinoff Flintstones animated show. I spent some time reading into the Hanna-Barbera lore the other day. This, this made me wanna kill myself, so I just wanna, I was trying to find ways out of this feeling by reading more about these cartoons.

• 19:27Speaker 06

  Somehow loop this in with End of Oak Street?

• 19:29Sean Fennessey?

  Sure, yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 06

  Bam Bam is introduced in 1982.

• 19:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, maybe he gets flashed into that period of time in history. That's possible. I don't know. I, you know, the Gosling thing is, is, it's, it's. It's devolving.

• 19:43Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:43Sean Fennessey?

  Is what I'll say. And I hope this gets figured out soon and he is cast as a violent assassin.

• 19:50Speaker 06

  A broken man, boy. With a Metallica T-shirt.

• 19:54Sean Fennessey?

  Motorcycle racer who, you know, is going through a hard divorce. That's what I need next from Ryan. Let's save this last bit.

• 20:02Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 20:02Sean Fennessey?

  To discuss as we go through.

• 20:04Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 20:04Sean Fennessey?

  The Ridley experience. Any other news you want to get off your chest? Any other personal announcements? Oh, hey, thanks to the folks at American Cinematech.

• 20:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:10Sean Fennessey?

  For all three of us, we.

• 20:11Speaker 06

  A lot of fun.

• 20:12Sean Fennessey?

  We shared films this week.

• 20:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:14Sean Fennessey?

  With fans during that. You guys were at the Los Filos three last night.

• 20:17Speaker 06

  Bourne Identity last night.

• 20:18Sean Fennessey?

  We were at, um, at the Arrow on Wednesday night. No, on Tuesday night. We had a great time showing Out of Sight, which was wonderful.

• 20:23Speaker 06

  You know what's really good? Bourne Identity.

• 20:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say Out of Sight.

• 20:27Speaker 06

  And Out of Sight.

• 20:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Also really, really good.

• 20:29Sean Fennessey?

  Both good films. Yeah. And, and, and seems like we both had really nice raucous audiences and a lot of people who hadn't seen the films before.

• 20:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I know. That was very, very exciting. And I talked to a couple of people, um, on the way out who were there for the first time. And they were just like, hey, that ruled.

• 20:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Really good pick.

• 20:46Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty exciting.

• 20:46Amanda Dobbins?

  So I was pleased, pleased about that.

• 20:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You think these things that are, that we talk about all the time, that we feel like are endemic to the shows that we've been making for a really long time are universally understood. But you know what?

• 20:55Speaker 06

  Well, that's like what you were talking about with Matt Johnson, where it was just like these people under 25 that are essentially driving the survival and revival of movie houses.

• 21:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 21:04Speaker 06

  They haven't, they haven't necessarily up on all the Bourne movies.

• 21:07Sean Fennessey?

  Of course not.

• 21:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:08Sean Fennessey?

  And what, where should they go next after Identity?

• 21:11Speaker 06

  I think the ultimatum, or no, I mean, sorry, supremacy.

• 21:13Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, just because that's number two.

• 21:15Speaker 06

  Uh, well, it's also like very key to the first film.

• 21:19Sean Fennessey?

  I thought you were gonna say your sexual awakening, given Joan Allen's performance.

• 21:22Speaker 06

  Yes, that's right.

• 21:23Sean Fennessey?

  Um, okay. Let's talk about Ridley Scott and the Dog Stars. So.

• 21:29Speaker 06

  It sounds like an Australian pub band.

• 21:32Sean Fennessey?

  So this movie is based on a novel written by Peter Heller. Uh, the screenplay is adapted by Markell Smith, a very seasoned, um, screenwriter. Some notable heads of department coming in on this one that I cited to Chris last night, Amanda, that no Darius Waltski shooting this movie, two in a row now, not working with Ridley Scott, if you're working on many, many movies with Ridley over the years.

• 21:53Sean Fennessey?

  David Fincher alum Eric Messerschmidt, the Academy Award winning DP is on this. Um, Waltski shot Resident Evil, which maybe explains why he isn't on this movie. This movie stars Jacob Elordi, Margaret Qualley, Benedict Wong, Guy Pearce, Alison Janney. Set after a devastating flu pan.

• 22:09Speaker 06

  And Josh Brolin.

• 22:10Sean Fennessey?

  And Josh Brolin. We'll get to him. Don't worry. I know.

• 22:12Speaker 06

  Wanted to give him his credit.

• 22:13Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Yeah, we'll get there. I promise you. Um, set after a devastating flu pandemic that has almost eradicated humanity, the film centers on Hig, a former civilian pilot and Bang Lee, a hardened former Marine, as they confront outside threats and hold on to the possibility of a better life beyond where they currently live, which is in Colorado.

• 22:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 22:33Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda.

• 22:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:34Sean Fennessey?

  What did you think of the Dog Stars?

• 22:38Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, Yaouza is, is what I think of it. It is, it is many movies in one, which is not a compliment, but some of those movies are, if not interesting, then at least soothing. Um, I did think to myself about 30 minutes into this film, okay, so this is just a movie about Jacob Elordi feeding his dog for two hours, which I'm not, not into.

• 23:06Amanda Dobbins?

  And I think that Jacob Elordi is the right height to do that and to wear all the immaculate.

• 23:12Speaker 06

  Guys can't feed their dogs either.

• 23:15Sean Fennessey?

  Tough one for you.

• 23:16Speaker 06

  I'm good. I just don't understand.

• 23:19Sean Fennessey?

  Don't ever get a dog.

• 23:21Speaker 06

  I can't reach.

• 23:24Sean Fennessey?

  He's got a, that's good. I don't know. Is that even true? He's gotta bend down a lot.

• 23:28Amanda Dobbins?

  But you know, he's limber. That's good.

• 23:29Sean Fennessey?

  Hard on your back when you're tall.

• 23:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Mobility is an important part of health and longevity. So he's working on it now.

• 23:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You're like the Dr. Becky for Pilates moms.

• 23:41Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know whether that's really nice or the meanest thing we've ever seen.

• 23:46Speaker 06

  I think it means you've achieved your final four.

• 23:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Thank you so much. Um, yeah, he looks great in the Carhartt. There's an immaculate suede jacket that shows up at some point.

• 23:56Speaker 06

  I have to.

• 23:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay.

• 23:58Speaker 06

  I want to talk to you about.

• 23:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I guess the plot starts. And it's like, what's happening here? And it doesn't seem like anyone involved really has any of the, uh, the pacing or the narrative beats, uh, laid down. It didn't look as bad as it could have.

• 24:18Sean Fennessey?

  You know, there are parts of it that I think look beautiful.

• 24:20Speaker 06

  It was shot in Italy. Uh, both.

• 24:22Sean Fennessey?

  Devastatingly to me.

• 24:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I did say to him, I was like, you know what? This is the first time that Colorado's ever looked appealing to me. Spoiler alert, it was Italy.

• 24:30Sean Fennessey?

  I was talking to Chris yesterday and I was like, well, you know what? I liked being in Colorado for two hours. That was nice. And he was like, sorry, bud, that was shot in Italy.

• 24:36Speaker 06

  I mean, they seemed to have a delightful, uh, experience there. And they also shot at Chinchetta, uh, usually after we see a screening that I know that we'll be talking about, like days later, I'll try to like leave myself a voice memo uh, as I drive home, usually from Westfield. Uh, and it's, it's a longish drive. And so sometimes I can get lost in thought. This one, I only had one sentence. Zach Bryan's Cormac McCarthy's The Road. And I think I actually summed it up quite well.

• 25:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 25:04Speaker 06

  Um, I agree with a lot of what Amanda said. However, it's been weird to see the Rotten Tomato score and the critical, like rejection of this movie. Because I'm like, it was bad, but it didn't suck. If that makes sense.

• 25:20Sean Fennessey?

  I, I pretty much agree with that.

• 25:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. It's not.

• 25:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's unsuccessful.

• 25:26Amanda Dobbins?

  But it's not incompetent.

• 25:27Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 25:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Yes. Uh, and, and there are two times where we're like, why are you doing this? And I, I would have not done it, but the answer is pretty clear is that it's based on a novel. And so this is part of the plot and that they just, they made the.

• 25:42Sean Fennessey?

  There is one particular sequence, which is the most audacious thing in the movie that is not in the novel.

• 25:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 25:47Sean Fennessey?

  And that choice, I would say dramatically shifted my opinion of the movie because I was having what, it was sort of the way you were describing, um, watching Elordi do a lot of those things. Sounded like ASMR, like visual ASMR.

• 26:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 26:01Sean Fennessey?

  And the movie, this movie has a kind of like, I just love this terrain and I want to spend as much time as I can, as I can exploring it with aerial photography. Right? And there's some beautiful aerial photography. There's a lot of kind of quiet, contemplative moments with this sort of like sad, beautiful man who's lost his wife.

• 26:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 26:18Sean Fennessey?

  And is figuring out how to live in this post-apocalyptic environment. It's narratively like dead on arrival. Like the movie has no energy or pace whatsoever. But it does look good and you've got very handsome actors. You've got this kind of like men's influencer energy of guys ripping tree stumps out of the ground and using crosssaws together. And it does have something going on.

• 26:39Speaker 06

  It has like the most expensive, like outdoorsman YouTube video ever made of like, God, it's really pleasant watching him just like work on an old plane.

• 26:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Or it's like. Or fly the old plane or fish.

• 26:51Sean Fennessey?

  It's like MAGA Terrence Malick or something. Like there's just like something, like it's not, and, and, and so it looks kind of good. And you feel like you're watching a Hollywood movie, but as soon as, as you said, that the plot engine starts grinding, you can feel like I've seen at least 10 post-apocalyptic thrillers that are way more interesting than this.

• 27:12Speaker 06

  It's the inversion of what a lot of those post-apocalyptic thrillers do, which is typically spend a lot of time explaining the factions that are out there and, you know, like, oh, the reapers are gonna come for you or whatever. And this is kind of like, that's all brushed aside. Like there are awareness or understanding. The main two characters are Elordi, who plays a guy named Hig, and, uh, Josh Brolin, who plays a guy named Bang Lee.

• 27:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 06

  Uh, and they have like basically created a fortress and an airfield in eerie Colorado. And they are like somewhat aware that there are bad guys out there who are kind of trying to come for their patch, but.

• 27:50Sean Fennessey?

  And it's sort of suggested in the movie before we see them, that there might be like some zombie potential here, but they're really more just like kind of crazed survivors.

• 28:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, it takes place in 2035, I think, right? Uh.

• 28:05Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's right.

• 28:05Speaker 06

  So.

• 28:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, that's, yes.

• 28:07Speaker 06

  And so it's 10 years. I don't know when the apocalypse is supposed to have occurred, but it, I don't know. They, they, they've been doing this for a minute. And, uh.

• 28:15Sean Fennessey?

  And it's a pandemic era novel as well, right?

• 28:17Speaker 06

  I believe so. Yeah.

• 28:18Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I think that it's, I think it's pre, it's 2012.

• 28:21Speaker 06

  Okay. And so there's like an awareness of these people, but there's not, it's, it doesn't get like bogged down in like the ideology and or state of the people who are coming for them. I will say, I randomly happened to watch one of those mega trailers where they like cut together all the ads and, and different trailers. And I was struck by several things that are in the trailers that are not in the movie, including much more zombified looking

• 28:48Sean Fennessey?

  figures.

• 28:48Speaker 06

  Figures. So I don't know if that was in and out.

• 28:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Once we get into spoilers, I have a follow-up question about that because it did feel there were some sort of visual feints or like clues in the, in the movie that were never followed up on. And it did feel like things were chopped up.

• 29:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Or that things just kind of didn't gel together. I mean, it is also a Ridley Scott movie, so we know.

• 29:11Speaker 06

  Well, we could talk about.

• 29:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Four hours of footage somewhere that Chris is gonna do a director's commentary for.

• 29:16Speaker 06

  We could shoot, we could talk about that, his technical approach to making films and how that's impacted how these stories are told at some point. Um.

• 29:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it just seems like he shoots a lot of footage with long scripts. And if he has an idea, he explores that idea really deeply. And then they kind of figure it out in post. And this is, that was clearly true in Napoleon. It was clearly true in Gladiator two. It was a lot of the recent movies.

• 29:36Speaker 06

  He's shooting with 10 cameras. Like he's not, he's not shooting scenes with intention.

• 29:40Sean Fennessey?

  But I think there's also like, kind of a lack of fealty to hard story structure and script in terms of the execution of the movies. And you can feel it because they're all kind of baggy now. And, or they all feel like they're missing something. And, you know, I, I did eventually re-watch the Napoleon director's cut and I thought it improved upon the movie a little bit, but maybe not enough that it got to like, you know, an A minus. Even though I think all three of us kind of had a fun time with that movie. It's, it's, um, it's entertaining, but it's not the mega success that it should be. And he's now going through all these kind of series of styles of films. This is yet another genre zone that he's never, he's never really hit a movie like this before. And so he's going down the list of stuff like this.

• 30:23Sean Fennessey?

  And, you know, they're just not as sharp. You know, they're not as sharp as the movies in the early 2000s and certainly not the, those breakthrough movies in the late 70s and early 80s. But I still, I don't hate watching his movies. I really enjoy watching the movies. This feels like a case where both the script story and I think his general, like truly unlocking of the world is working against it. I also think.

• 30:49Sean Fennessey?

  I have some Jacob Elordi questions. And I think we should talk about it. It's important. Generally.

• 30:57Speaker 06

  Like what? Compared to what?

• 30:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:00Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I mean, he's very important to Amanda, right? She has grabbed him as one of her guys, right? She's climbed him. She's climbed him and.

• 31:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Not yet.

• 31:11Speaker 06

  Few more Pilates classes to get there.

• 31:14Sean Fennessey?

  I liked his work in Frankenstein quite a bit. I thought he was a terrific Elvis in Priscilla. I think he's a talented actor. He's very effective in the first two seasons of Euphoria.

• 31:24Speaker 06

  Not the third one?

• 31:26Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, I think the writing maybe failed him a little bit.

• 31:29Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 31:31Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I thought he was quite poor in this movie. And I think he was like, really lacking a deeper register that if you can't connect to this character, then you're going to have a hard time with this movie. And maybe that's the circumstances or the script, or the way that the movie's being filmed with 10 cameras or what, but I just wasn't with him emotionally at all. And so that's, that's a big drawback for the movie.

• 31:51Speaker 06

  I'll say this, there's a, a clip flying around about with Guy Pearce talking about making this movie and he's like, well, you know, I've worked with Ridley before, Ridley works very fast now. He shoots with many cameras so that rather than doing coverage and doing, you know, a master or two, and then everybody's close up coverage, there might be a camera on a hillside with a very long lens so that that's your close up. But then there's also these three or four other cameras and he's essentially cutting between the cameras like a live TV director and assembling the movie as he goes along. And he was like, so sometimes you don't know what camera you're playing to. And I was like, for Guy Pearce and Josh Brolin and Benedict Wong, that may not matter as much.

• 32:34Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 32:34Speaker 06

  For, for maybe actors who are still developing their, their craft and what they're doing. I think that might have been complicated and there are times, especially in the beginning of the movie, where you're just sort of like, you're putting this guy in a, in an airplane hangar with Josh Brolin and having them do a two-person play. And I, I think he actually is got something. I don't know what it is, but maybe not, maybe not man with no name mystique.

• 33:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I, I don't disagree. The first 30 to 40 minutes of this movie, as I said, is him feeding a dog, but is also silent. And it is him doing outdoorsy stuff and flying planes and being silent and being part of an, an image. And it's, and for the most part, they are very beautiful images. It is a little ASMR. It, it does test how long I can watch Jacob Elordi doing manly things without getting bored, but at the same time, it is very soothing. So I think he's, he's great at being photographed, which is part of being an actor and being part of a movie star. I don't disagree that once you have to get into the, the plot and especially the emotional

• 33:49Amanda Dobbins?

  motivation, that he's not really selling his backstory. But to be fair, the movie is not giving him much to work with. It's giving him, and if I can do some light spoilers here, you know, ghost hologram wife who comes in and out and, and like, and, and he just has to play the same scene of sitting in one room, like looking sad. And that is supposed to be the entire explication of his past life and everything that he's lost.

• 34:23Speaker 06

  He was a simple guy with simple needs.

• 34:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. He was a mechanic, you know? Living the dream.

• 34:28Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe this is in the book too, but the characterization of his character and Margaret Qualley's character is so oversimplified and it feels like the new Hollywood and European cinema never happened. It's like, this is just a purely good man whose wife died.

• 34:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 34:39Sean Fennessey?

  Who loves his dog and he's a mechanic and he likes to fix things and that's it. Like there is no depth. There's nothing he's done that he feels bad about. The one thing we see that he feels bad about like.

• 34:49Speaker 06

  Is he a Broncos fan? Like, there's not a single personality trait to him, like.

• 34:52Amanda Dobbins?

  On a more basic level, I think he's too young. Cause even as you're doing the timelines, okay, I mean, he, Jacob Elordi in real life is, I think, just turned 29 and I know that because I was a little taken aback. But even then, if you're rounding him up to 34, then what, 10 years ago, he's 24, he's married.

• 35:11Sean Fennessey?

  What happens when the hunky guys that you dig are closer in age to your sons than you?

• 35:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't like thinking about it.

• 35:21Amanda Dobbins?

  And I just, I don't think that we need to.

• 35:23Speaker 06

  Me and John are like, first time.

• 35:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Franco meme.

• 35:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I, I, I think, I think what you said, I think what you both said is right, which is he's not given a ton of material to work with and he may be working in a way that is very different from, say, the hyper meticulous Guillermo del Toro style, right? Where like, he is looking for every specificity and knows exactly what he wants. And like, you know, I really was not a huge fan of that Frankenstein movie, but I thought he was fantastic as the monster and.

• 35:53Speaker 06

  Did you like him in Saltburn?

• 35:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think that's a fair, a more simple part, but I think he was very good at it.

• 35:58Speaker 06

  I, I, I thought that was an example of a director using what at that time he was very good at and, and photographing him in a very elegant way, but also like emphasizing his skills and hiding any of his weaknesses.

• 36:11Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I thought he was not as successful in Wuthering Heights. I thought both he and Margot Robbie were miscast. You seen Wuthering Heights yet?

• 36:17Speaker 06

  I haven't actually yet.

• 36:18Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, eh, it's okay.

• 36:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's yet another like, actually I kind of liked it from CR.

• 36:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 36:23Sean Fennessey?

  Not, not unlike Saltburn.

• 36:24Speaker 06

  Or materialist.

• 36:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's, it's right in that zone for you, but we're, we're on the front lines, which will allow you to then pivot.

• 36:31Speaker 06

  Of course, it's where I love to be.

• 36:33Amanda Dobbins?

  But I would say even in Wuthering Heights, there is a similar problem here where he's not, there's nothing, you're getting nothing from him in that. And so there's very little heat. There's very little, he's supposed to be longing and pining and, you know, this, this wild untameable character. And he's just kind of like there smirking.

• 36:54Speaker 06

  What do you think?

• 36:55Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 36:55Speaker 06

  I was trying to put my finger on this. If Ridley Scott had had his way and this movie could have been made at any time over the last 20 years, who do you think should have played that role?

• 37:07Speaker 06

  Like, is that, is that supposed to be Sam Rockwell? Is that supposed to be?

• 37:11Sean Fennessey?

  No, I do think it needs to be a more imposing, physical presence.

• 37:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so now his height is okay.

• 37:18Sean Fennessey?

  It doesn't have to be tall, but just a little more rugged, I guess. I don't like, could Val Kilmer have done this part?

• 37:25Speaker 06

  Sure. I'm trying to think of like what, it's like pretty, but tough, right?

• 37:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 37:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I have to say, this may seem like a superficial critique of the film, but I was distracted by his wardrobe.

• 37:40Amanda Dobbins?

  It's unreal.

• 37:41Speaker 06

  It's Jacob Elordi's wardrobe, right?

• 37:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 06

  Like he's wearing like a big puff, like a big floppy scarf, like a, what do they call those? Besides scarves? Like, but the way like the guys have like scarves that are like huge.

• 37:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Giant. I don't know if they have a particular.

• 37:56Speaker 06

  Big scarf for a guy. That's totally fine. Uh, he's.

• 37:59Sean Fennessey?

  Like a Kaffiyah? What do you mean?

• 38:01Speaker 06

  No, he's just wearing like a scarf that was popular like four years ago.

• 38:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Speaker 06

  Kind of.

• 38:05Amanda Dobbins?

  But I don't, I, I mean, it's Pashmina. So I don't think it is a Pashmina, but I know what you're saying.

• 38:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's more about the Carhartt jacket and the suede jacket and the jeans that fit just so, even though he's living desperately and sleeping on the ground every night.

• 38:17Speaker 06

  Like he's going full Gorpcore, like Black Hood Spy plane.

• 38:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Are amazing. Yeah. And it's, and it's true that all of the clothes are still in immaculate condition and he does have, I mean, we are shown that he goes back to his pre pandemic, excuse me, but it's, you know, right there home. So he maybe does have access to a full closet, but I would agree, the variety, the cut, the fit, and he's, he is 6'5", so I don't think it's that easy to find jeans that fit that well.

• 38:45Sean Fennessey?

  Mechanic had everything tailored?

• 38:48Speaker 06

  He invested in quality pieces and when you do that, you can expect them to last.

• 38:52Sean Fennessey?

  Honestly true.

• 38:53Amanda Dobbins?

  So there was a, there is a double Carhartt moment when he's visiting the Mennonites one time. And then the suede jacket, which I am assuming is Bottega because he has a, like a deal with Bottega, but I don't know. Anyway.

• 39:08Speaker 06

  Well, it took me out of the moment.

• 39:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought it was wonderful.

• 39:10Speaker 06

  I'm sure you did, but much like.

• 39:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Did it, did it threaten you because you would like to be able to dress like that?

• 39:18Speaker 06

  Nothing about him threatens me. I'm a 48-year-old man. I don't walk around being like, oh, I don't know.

• 39:24Amanda Dobbins?

  But I'm just like, listen, but listen, like Carhartt, well-fitting jeans, a vest, layering.

• 39:30Speaker 06

  I think he looks great.

• 39:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Color palette, but it's there, it's, it's in your lane. Like you're doing it the CR way, but it is similar.

• 39:38Speaker 06

  But a character who had essentially been living off of like beef chili and carrots for 10 years.

• 39:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 39:46Speaker 06

  Fixing shit and living with Josh Brolin.

• 39:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 06

  Would not look like he was throwing fits. Like he would, he would be wearing one fucking coveralls and that's it. Like, you know?

• 39:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I completely agree with you and yet I didn't care.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  I know.

• 40:01Amanda Dobbins?

  I tripped out on the beef chili and the preparation of the beef chili.

• 40:05Speaker 06

  It took two minutes to make it.

• 40:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. Thank you so much. And all he did, like, I guess he did brown the meat, but then he just poured something else in and he was like, congratulations, here's beef chili. Cause we're not shown the stew, so it may not be an appealing stew.

• 40:18Speaker 06

  We may sound insane. No, no, we may sound crazy, but you're supposed to think about that.

• 40:23Sean Fennessey?

  No, there's time spent on this, these parts of the story. There's a lot of time spent with Jacob Elordi not speaking, wearing jackets. That's a big part of the film. There are other incidents that eventually do happen. We should talk about them.

• 40:38Sean Fennessey?

  So Jacob Elordi's dog is killed during the film.

• 40:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And it's sort of Josh Brolin's fault.

• 40:46Sean Fennessey?

  And it's sort of Josh Brolin's fault because Josh Brolin is attempting to teach him a lesson by arriving at just the last minute to save his bacon when some survivors.

• 40:55Speaker 06

  Cause he's been like.

• 40:56Sean Fennessey?

  Hit his camp.

• 40:56Speaker 06

  Slacking on, making sure he's not being followed back on his recon runs.

• 41:00Sean Fennessey?

  And Brolin, who is his partner in survival and they have this kind of munitions and chili tent together.

• 41:07Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, it's an airplane hangar.

• 41:09Sean Fennessey?

  It is an airplane hangar.

• 41:09Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not a tent even, but then Elordi does sleep outside for like watch purposes?

• 41:16Sean Fennessey?

  It seemingly also, he just enjoys that and is a stargazer.

• 41:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, right. They under, they underdeveloped the title until the end there.

• 41:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. So when they're attacked.

• 41:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Much like the beef stew.

• 41:27Sean Fennessey?

  Jasper, his dog, takes a bullet and, and dies. And this sends him into a kind of existential despair and it leads him to leaving Erie, Colorado to go find, chase a voice that he hears over the radio in Grand Junction.

• 41:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 41:45Sean Fennessey?

  He doesn't make it to Grand Junction, quite. And he crash lands in the middle of a forest. Conveniently does not have his airplane destroyed landing in the middle of a forest. And he comes upon.

• 41:56Amanda Dobbins?

  He's a mechanic.

• 41:58Sean Fennessey?

  I just mean in terms of not hitting a tree. That was convenient that he didn't hit the tree.

• 42:01Speaker 06

  He picked a meadow he was going in. He did a good job in that.

• 42:04Sean Fennessey?

  I'm glad you approved.

• 42:08Sean Fennessey?

  And he stumbles upon a small Pioneer Town style ranch.

• 42:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, no, he stumbles upon a magical donkey.

• 42:16Sean Fennessey?

  That's true. He stumbles upon a magical donkey, which he then follows.

• 42:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Time out, time out. He is almost trampled by a herd of CGI bison.

• 42:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:25Sean Fennessey?

  Really could have done without that.

• 42:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Really, really, really tough. That was one of the one we looked at each other like, oh, no. This is real.

• 42:30Sean Fennessey?

  I forgot about that.

• 42:32Speaker 06

  Gladiator two baboon zoo from hell.

• 42:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Really, we gotta stop doing this?

• 42:36Sean Fennessey?

  We really didn't need that either. That was just not necessary. I guess maybe to show that the one of the wings was somewhat damaged when he later fixes it.

• 42:44Speaker 06

  He could have hit a tree.

• 42:45Amanda Dobbins?

  It's fine. It's fine. We did need to do our bison. And so then he finds the magical donkey, who also survived the bison stampede.

• 42:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 42:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And leads him back to this homestead.

• 42:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, which features yet another perfectly coiffed and uniformed, beautiful, young actor in Margaret Qualley.

• 43:05Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 43:06Sean Fennessey?

  And.

• 43:06Speaker 06

  Who's the last thing she did before the apocalypse was C-Boy Genius. You know, like.

• 43:11Sean Fennessey?

  And then she. Very much had that vibe. And her damned ornery father, who almost blows Jacob Elordi's head off. He's played by Guy Pearce. Now, as soon as Guy Pearce showed up, I was like, oh, good, a real actor. Like, no shots to Josh Brolin, who I love, but who I thought was kind of doing.

• 43:25Speaker 06

  Josh Brolin.

• 43:25Sean Fennessey?

  Josh Brolin core. He was like, I'm just kind of redoing my Sicario character, which is something that I enjoy, but was total shtick.

• 43:31Amanda Dobbins?

  But he's also like doing pushups in between takes.

• 43:34Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. And like there are many like revealing shots of his biceps. Like, it's a lot. I know it's something that you enjoy. I enjoy it. But Pearce, who also I love.

• 43:42Speaker 06

  He's an intensity that's very welcome.

• 43:44Sean Fennessey?

  But he brings something to the movie instantaneously where you're like, oh, okay, there's some stakes in this movie. People care. And he has an uneasy lack of trust for this man, as all, as people do of all outsiders there. But she naturally is drawn to this handsome 29 year old man in Carhartt. And a slow romance begins to evolve. And I guess this is really where the, the plot starts to hum in a bit. But I also felt like it never, the story never really took off either because we don't know what anyone is really after. I guess we think he's trying to get to Grand Junction because there might be something there. But I find that so interesting because what happens when they eventually do go to Grand Junction in a narrow escape from this homestead is something that is an invention from the book.

• 44:28Speaker 06

  Apparently, yeah.

• 44:29Sean Fennessey?

  It's so funny because when I was watching the movie, I, and this, the film takes this really hard turn. And we are fully spoiling, we're now into the third act of this movie. I was watching the movie and the film has a kind of stylistic shift where tonally and visually, something has changed. It's moved from this kind of naturalistic, homesteading adventure tale into something much more dystopian and absurd. And I was like, this is actually something in a great genre novel that you can do. Like you can just turn the page on a chapter and just shift the vibe pretty dramatically.

• 45:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Sean Fennessey?

  And you're, you're like, I'm going with it, right? I'm in the middle of this story. I'm still in the lead character's POV.

• 45:08Speaker 06

  Stephen King does that a lot.

• 45:09Sean Fennessey?

  All the time.

• 45:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:09Sean Fennessey?

  Where it's like, a story goes from being very nat, like, um, Dreamcatcher is the number one version of that for me. Where you're like in the middle of that story and then he just shows you what the, the story is really about. And you're like, oh, okay, it's this. So I was willing to forgive it because I was like, well, this is the novel. And then I learned that it's not even in the novel. And I was like, so where did this idea even come from? How would you describe this sequence in the movie?

• 45:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, it is, it's sort of like, well, I recently on vacation stayed at the TWA Hotel at JFK Airport, which is a, like a refurbished hotel originally opened in the sixties. Very like Jetsons, Mad Men type looking. And the, the TWA Hotel has preserved as much as they can about this experience. And then you get to watch planes, which if you have two sons is, is awesome. But so this was like the TWA Hotel from hell. It does have, it's a highly stylized, and to your point, you turned to me, Sean, as soon as we got there and said, well, how do they have power? Like very angrily, because the internal logic of the movie is ruptured.

• 46:13Amanda Dobbins?

  But so bright, like retro futuristic, very like eerie kind of Wario weirdo land. Like something weird is going on in this.

• 46:26Sean Fennessey?

  Every person's face, there's something off. The makeup is quite pale and darkened under the eyes.

• 46:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And there's, you know, whether it's like Stefford D or robotic or something, there is just clearly like you're in some, immediately in some uncomfortable.

• 46:38Speaker 06

  Kind of weird vibes.

• 46:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 46:40Sean Fennessey?

  And I guess it becomes clear that this is some sort of safe haven slash farm for a, a small colony of cannibals. And Alison Janney is the leader of former stewardess who has had a Stalin-esque rise to power in this community.

• 46:58Speaker 06

  True.

• 46:59Sean Fennessey?

  And it just like totally tilts the movie over and unmoored me from whatever story we were even trying to accomplish. And I don't even really know what the story was at that point.

• 47:08Speaker 06

  Well, because I think that other than that whole sequence, which like you said, is, is at least not any published synopsis sees of the book. I haven't read Dog Stars and, and seems to be a film invention from Mark Smith and Ridley. It's a slightly dull but legible movie about a guy who's very nervous to open himself back up to human connection because he's lost everything, he's lost his dog. His mentor is telling him that they can't let anyone on their homestead because everybody else is a roach. And we've got a good thing here where we defend what we have and we can just keep going, just the two of us. And then he meets someone, but by meeting her, he's like, fuck, like, what if I lose you too? That's all like.

• 47:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. And also I still haven't let go of my former life.

• 47:58Speaker 06

  But this whole thing with like, there's a, there's a Grand Junction thing, there's like, and.

• 48:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Then there's also the weird cult. That's sort of the, the problem also of the second and third act is that it's not just following Elordi. They're introducing whole new narratives. And so like you cut back for a long period of time to Brolin's homestead and, which is rated. And it's like technically pretty exciting and, you know.

• 48:29Sean Fennessey?

  It's a cool sequence, but it feels like it is in a different movie.

• 48:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, totally. And we like watching Ridley Scott like blow things up and he clearly likes to do that as well. And it is also some like excitement in a movie that's been pretty laid back. But you don't have any explanation of who those people are. And it goes on for so long that then it's a narrative strain that isn't really totally played out. And then you dip to Grand Junction where Elordi is not involved in that scene. He's just kind of standing there for the most point.

• 48:59Speaker 06

  That's in the trailer that I watched is Elordi has like a different scene with Alison Janney. It's a combination of the turn you get in a lot of zombie horror movies, which is A, the place that we thought was paradise is turns out to be hell. And B, like, um, the, uh, these people have been like, we're not the first ones to come here. Like they, we find all these passports from people who have tried to come to Grand Junction before and have obviously been killed for whatever reason.

• 49:26Amanda Dobbins?

  There's also, so when you first meet Guy Pearce, he has a very visible tattoo on his forearm that looks like the graffiti that's shown at the beginning of the film. And then when they show up in Grand Junction, he starts rolling up his sleeves in a very specific way. And I was like, oh.

• 49:41Speaker 06

  God, I didn't even notice that.

• 49:42Amanda Dobbins?

  So are you, um, is there something here where you have a connection with one of the cult things and blah, blah, blah? But then you guys couldn't make it work and so you cut it out?

• 49:50Sean Fennessey?

  I think that, I think you may be right.

• 49:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 49:53Speaker 06

  That's really interesting. I didn't even notice that.

• 49:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, and I, it was just purposeful enough and.

• 50:00Speaker 06

  Well, because their behavior at Grand Junction is strange across the board. Guy Pearce is not acting like the way Guy Pearce has been acting for the rest of the movie. Elordi is basically silent. Qualley is essentially silent. So it's just a very strange sequence. It goes on for quite a long time. In the book, apparently they like touch down and take back off again.

• 50:16Sean Fennessey?

  Essentially a trick where they, they're meant to just tripwire the plane as it's landing to trap them there. And, but he, he sniffs it out.

• 50:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 50:24Sean Fennessey?

  And they take off and they said they never really properly land at Grand Junction.

• 50:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, but it's supposed to be like, oh, this place that I, I thought I wanted to go, I'm not going to go there.

• 50:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. So it's interesting that this has been inserted. Now, one of the reasons why I think it's been inserted is because it's, it, it gives Elordi's character a chance to be like a man of action, where he's not really a man of action through a lot of the movie. And he's the one who finds, helps them find their way out of Grand Junction in an exciting, you know, 30 second sequence. But again, like, I think you're right that if you're reading the sort of character's emotional context of this is a guy who is having a hard time trusting anybody and letting anybody in because of the loss he's experienced. That makes sense in a sensitive drama about a man who's moved out into the middle of nowhere, not in a post-apocalyptic thriller.

• 51:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:07Sean Fennessey?

  And so that's kind of the challenge of the movie. If like, we really had to get down to it is it's presenting as one thing and then trying to tell you it's another, but it's just not convincing enough to become another thing. And so it's just an odd movie and it does feel to me a little bit like a lot of Ridley Scott's movies in the last 10 years, where there's some really interesting stuff. There's some really beautiful photography. Maybe you get one or two performances where you're like, goddamn, Guy Pearce cooked. But they don't totally congeal. And like, I think if you receive them the way that we received House of Gucci, which is like, what a romp.

• 51:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 51:41Sean Fennessey?

  You'll have a nice time.

• 51:43Amanda Dobbins?

  They're all entertaining.

• 51:44Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 51:45Amanda Dobbins?

  And they all look better than movies that have this level of preparation or we'll, we'll figure it out later normally do.

• 51:55Speaker 06

  Yeah. I think.

• 51:57Sean Fennessey?

  Because he's such a pro.

• 51:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Sean Fennessey?

  Because he's made so many movies.

• 51:59Speaker 06

  In recent years, I would say the, the decline of, or his reliance on maybe fixing things in post or his.

• 52:08Amanda Dobbins?

  CGI animals.

• 52:09Speaker 06

  Reliance on, on shooting with 10 cameras. And I think to your point about tempo earlier.

• 52:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 06

  There's like a, I think there's a cause and effect. If you're, if you're just kind of like covering everything and getting two or three takes and moving on because you need to get to the next movie because you can't stop working, then it's like, what is any scene? Like, what are you trying to do? How do you build up to something? And that's something that like, as you go through his filmography, his 30 film from filmography at this point, up until the last like seven years, you would never say that about Ridley Scott. You would say everything is so.

• 52:43Sean Fennessey?

  Composed.

• 52:44Speaker 06

  Composed and like, it's, it's every department working at the absolute peak of their powers. And somebody who is, yeah, some of his movies are uneven and some are better than others. But you felt like a storytelling ebb and flow happening and like a real like old master at work.

• 53:01Sean Fennessey?

  I, for years on this show, because we've covered Ridley so much, because he's been so active in the last seven or eight years. I always say that he's a real, it's up to the script guy. And if the script doesn't work and you go back and you look at the 90s and 2000s and you can kind of choose, like if he has a Gladiator script, it's going to be a bang on classic. And if he has like a G I Jane script, it's maybe not going to work as well.

• 53:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:22Sean Fennessey?

  And I feel like that's not true anymore. I feel like now because of all of these changes in the production style that you're making.

• 53:28Speaker 06

  There's an LA Times interview with him this week and he was talking about how because of Scott Free, his production company is so busy, they developed their own material. And he's like, talking, Dogstars was handed to him, like, here's the screenplay. And he was like, the last time I took a script from outside of our development was Martian, which is also his last great film, I would argue.

• 53:49Sean Fennessey?

  His last classic.

• 53:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. I mean, we've now done both top five episodes and Hall of Fame episodes for him because he has released five movies in the last five years and he's released 20 movies in the 21st century and he's 88 years old and he is not stopping. The other piece of news is that he's developing yet another Alien movie centered around Michael Fassbender's David character and he's going to keep going. And I see him in interviews and I'm like, he seems like he's doing okay.

• 54:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:22Sean Fennessey?

  He seems pretty sharp. And as you say, like this movie is in some ways extremely well made. Like it certainly seems like it's made by grownups and there's quality components to it.

• 54:31Speaker 06

  Right.

• 54:31Sean Fennessey?

  So he shouldn't stop by any means. And you know, one question that I see online a lot is like, how does Ridley keep getting to make these 75 million, 100 million, 150 million dollar movies? Cause he hasn't had a major, major hit in a long time. And one of the reasons I think is because of what you're describing, which is that, you know, Scott Free is this huge business driver in Hollywood. That it's not just this production company that makes tons of television, but he, there's also a commercial house attached to it. And he of course is one of the pioneers of the commercial director to auteur pivot, which is something we've talked about in previous episodes. And he's responsible for some of the more memorable TV commercials of the 70s and 80s.

• 55:14Sean Fennessey?

  And so he is big business in Hollywood to this day, even though he's 88. He commands a lot of power. So it's not shocking to me that he gets to keep making these movies. But I don't, do you think this is like shifting his legacy at all? Cause we talk about like the Scorsese's and Spielberg's and they do one every two or three or four years and Tarantino's whole bit about only making 10 films, because great filmmakers like Billy Wilder lost it when they got into their late 60s and 70s. Do you think this is going to meaningfully impact how we think about him?

• 55:43Amanda Dobbins?

  So we've been talking a lot in the last five years about like a great director's like last great film and interpreting many of them, you know, Coppola, Spielberg, Scorsese, et cetera. Will this be the last one? Is this a mission statement? Like, is this, how does this explain the other work? And this is a swan song and all these sorts of things. And I think that Ridley Scott, he's clearly not doing that, but he's also so far not doing, away from doing that, that I, he maybe lets himself off the hook of the, the last 10. We're never going to look at one of them and be like, okay, now it's time for Ridley Scott, you know, to really tell us what the last 50 years have meant. Like he doesn't care.

• 56:25Amanda Dobbins?

  He's, what it's meant is just to keep working and we do have the original stuff. And nothing is so terrible in the last 10 years that I think it, he hasn't, as you said, he seems like pretty with it. He hasn't lost his curve ball. He's just doing what he wants to do. So it maybe changes what the final, how we'll write about the final chapter compared with some of those other directors. And I think we as, you know, cinephiles do have a tendency to lionize like the last great work and he doesn't have one. But also that's very in keeping with his career.

• 57:03Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 57:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Which is just putting up his shots.

• 57:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, true. The filmography is so chameleonic that it's hard for me to ascribe a, a map that he was following in the first place, that he's somehow deviated from the, the path. You know, like I think he's always been a grinder. He's been incredibly prolific throughout his career. He changes genres almost every movie. He clearly has like images and ways he likes to see the world that he repeats and goes back to. I would say that the thing that probably disappoints me about more or less that this decade of work is that you can start to see the seams and that you could start to see not a cheapness, but a speed at which he is working that I think he is actually cutting corners.

• 57:50Speaker 06

  And so they even, movies like Napoleon, which you should at least be able to trust, like the battle sequencer, sequences are going to be astonishing, kind of look, they look animated, you know what I mean? Like, which is fine and lots of movies have that feel, but I don't, Ridley Scott movies don't have that feel, right?

• 58:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, this was true in Exodus Gods and Kings. I remember coming out of that movie and being like, what?

• 58:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 58:12Sean Fennessey?

  Is this Ridley Scott? And then the next year, the Martian comes out. So it's, he's one of those things where like, I don't write him off ever. And I think he's still capable of great, fascinating visual ideas. And you guys are right, like he doesn't have some presumption of auteurship that so many of the other people who are like the heroes of this podcast do, because he's just such a grinder. And also that he is working so routinely that as he gets older and as the technology changes, but maybe his facility with it or hit the, you know, the teams that he's working with and their facility is evolving, it's not as sharp as it used to be. I just, I asked that question to you both because the 30% Rotten Tomato score on this

• 58:55Sean Fennessey?

  movie feels like a real like, we can say fuck Ridley now. Like we're, we're more comfortable just like dunking on a movie like this. Whereas I feel like it's, I think it's a little worse than House of Gucci and Napoleon and Gladiator two, but not like that much worse.

• 59:12Speaker 06

  And I don't even agree with you. You know what I mean? Like I, I think if this movie was directed by Francis Lawrence, we'd be like, that was pretty good.

• 59:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 06

  I mean, like it would be, it would have the same issues, but if it wasn't like a Ridley Scott film and you were sitting down and like, all right, Blade Runner, show me what you got now. I think if this was just like a workaday, like director, we would probably be like, that was fine.

• 59:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Sean Fennessey?

  Two and a half stars and it didn't quite hit, but I'm glad I saw it.

• 59:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Which is kind of where I'm at with the movie.

• 59:38Speaker 06

  Right.

• 59:38Sean Fennessey?

  So it's an unusual thing. The idea of him making another Alien movie is really interesting to me too.

• 59:43Speaker 06

  I don't think it's going to happen.

• 59:46Sean Fennessey?

  Well, why do you say that?

• 59:47Speaker 06

  Well, for one thing.

• 59:48Sean Fennessey?

  That was, that was my reaction when I heard about Alien Covenant. I'm like, you just did Prometheus, aren't we not done here?

• 59:52Speaker 06

  Yeah. He's 88 and he's making Treasure Island in November, he says. And then he wants to make a Bee Gees movie and he also wants to make a movie about an elephant. I think this is something he got asked about. I find.

• 1:00:04Sean Fennessey?

  An elephant? I didn't hear about that one.

• 1:00:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, he wants to.

• 1:00:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Is it, is it going to be a real elephant?

• 1:00:08Speaker 06

  I don't know.

• 1:00:08Sean Fennessey?

  Is it Babar?

• 1:00:09Speaker 06

  I know, it's like, he's like, oh, I was greatly moved by this story I read about Africa.

• 1:00:14Sean Fennessey?

  Ridley Scott's Babar would go so hard.

• 1:00:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh my God.

• 1:00:17Sean Fennessey?

  Would absolutely love that.

• 1:00:18Speaker 06

  Babar Runner?

• 1:00:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 06

  Babar trying to tell another elephant's an alien.

• 1:00:23Sean Fennessey?

  Like a Last Emperor style, an ascendant young king.

• 1:00:26Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:00:26Sean Fennessey?

  Come on.

• 1:00:27Speaker 06

  Uh.

• 1:00:29Amanda Dobbins?

  You also forgot the film about banking, which you're going to star in.

• 1:00:34Speaker 06

  You're making a banking movie?

• 1:00:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm reading here, I'm reading from R Ridley Scott. In an interview, interview with a British newspaper, The Times, Scott revealed that in addition to a pirate film, a Western, a World War One epic, a Bee Gees musical and a film about banking, he also has a quote, marvelous film about an African elephant, end quote, in development.

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  Yes. And then also another David movie for Alien, which I would welcome, but I just, I, I think at some point.

• 1:00:59Amanda Dobbins?

  That's a lot of movies.

• 1:01:00Speaker 06

  Time is going to come for everybody.

• 1:01:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Why don't you tell us about your banking movie script?

• 1:01:06Speaker 06

  I could never do it. I could never do better than margin call.

• 1:01:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. What are they, does he have any great unmade movies? He must have dozens. What are they? Look at his, let's look at his unrealized projects page, because that's another fascinating component of this. Like he was one of the guys attached to Neuromancer, which is now finally coming to the screen on television.

• 1:01:23Speaker 06

  It did look good.

• 1:01:23Sean Fennessey?

  It did look good.

• 1:01:24Speaker 06

  Yeah. Callum Turner.

• 1:01:26Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, look at all of these films. Just look at the Wikipedia for his unrealized projects.

• 1:01:31Speaker 06

  He's also one of the great yappers. So in interviews he'll be like, and then I would love to make Blackbeard's Delay. And everybody's like, oh my God, you know?

• 1:01:39Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he was attached to Blood Meridian. He was attached to The Passage. He was attached to Red Riding. He was attached to several Robin Hood sequels. He was attached to The Wolf of Wall Street at a certain point.

• 1:01:54Sean Fennessey?

  You know, some of it is the yapping and some of it is just like Scott Free is big business. So everything goes through them as well. And like if they put their names on a movie like that, or they option something, then they're gonna get a chance to do something big. It's such a, it's such a big career. And we've tried to put our arms around it multiple times. And I still feel like I'm scratching the surface. I watched Kingdom of Heaven last night for the first time in a long time. And I was like, this is okay. And I don't want to hurt your feelings.

• 1:02:17Speaker 06

  The director's cut?

• 1:02:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, there.

• 1:02:18Speaker 06

  You were like, this is okay?

• 1:02:19Sean Fennessey?

  Orlando Bloom is terrible in the movie.

• 1:02:21Speaker 06

  It doesn't matter.

• 1:02:22Sean Fennessey?

  It really does. He's the star of the movie.

• 1:02:24Amanda Dobbins?

  David Thewlis is in that movie. He's absolutely cooking.

• 1:02:27Sean Fennessey?

  I know. I, I, I just, my, my opinion of the classics has not really changed at all. And when I sit down to watch whatever he's, his seven to 12 confirmed grade films, I, I feel the same way about Alien as I did when I was 19. And I feel the same way about Gladiator as I did the day that I saw it. Which is to say Alien is like five star masterpiece and Gladiator is like a four star. Like that was fucking good. But it doesn't mean as much to me as it does to a lot of people. But some of the other stuff, like I didn't rewatch All the Money in the World, for example. That's a movie that I think we often forget is a Ridley movie, even though it came up on Monday's episode. I've only seen it once. Is that a movie that anyone needs to watch a second time?

• 1:03:05Speaker 06

  I've only seen it once as well.

• 1:03:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Same.

• 1:03:07Speaker 06

  And then they made the FX series that is essentially about the same thing.

• 1:03:10Sean Fennessey?

  Trust.

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Sean Fennessey?

  Which, did Danny Boyle make that?

• 1:03:13Speaker 06

  Yes. Uh, yes.

• 1:03:14Sean Fennessey?

  Strange.

• 1:03:15Speaker 06

  He directed the first one at least.

• 1:03:16Sean Fennessey?

  Um, how did you think about going back and looking at his work for this discussion?

• 1:03:21Amanda Dobbins?

  To be totally honest, I just knew that I was doing it with the two of you. So I went back and rewatched The Counselor, which was another movie that I have not watched.

• 1:03:28Speaker 06

  Every mother should.

• 1:03:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:31Amanda Dobbins?

  And I did in fact, watch it while sitting next to my son who was home from school. So I'm mother of the year. Uh, that was pretty much it. Cause we have done so much Ridley stuff. And for whatever reason, whether it's other Hall of Fames, a lot of these are pretty fresh in my memory. Um, so The Counselor, I hadn't seen in a while, wanted to give it its time of day. It's pretty great.

• 1:03:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:54Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, we'll, we'll talk about, we'll talk about my big note, but.

• 1:03:57Speaker 06

  I scanned, scanned through some of the turkeys. Cause I was like, is there anything here that I, like 1492 is terrible.

• 1:04:06Sean Fennessey?

  So bad.

• 1:04:06Speaker 06

  Uh, I went back and looked at, um, I had done Someone to Watch Over Me. It's not a turkey, uh, but I checked that out recently for rewatchables. What else did I have to get my list out now?

• 1:04:18Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. You made it very far. You made it well over an hour before.

• 1:04:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Congratulations.

• 1:04:23Sean Fennessey?

  You needed to break out the laptop. I mean, should we dive into a proper ranking?

• 1:04:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Sean Fennessey?

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• 1:05:35Sean Fennessey?

  Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime. As a reminder for you guys and for the listeners at home, when we did the Hall of Fame, we landed on these films. Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma and Louise, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, The Director's Cut, American Gangster, Prometheus, The Counselor, The Martian. Say the most controversial leave off was Matchstick Men, a movie that has a cult.

• 1:06:02Speaker 06

  Controversial for you?

• 1:06:04Sean Fennessey?

  I think just in general. That was the one that was sort of like, The Counselor's very divisive. Was talking to Jamie before we recorded. He gave it a go this morning. He was like, I don't know about this one. Um, you know, it happens. There are divisive movies in the catalog. Uh.

• 1:06:17Speaker 06

  Did you get to the Ruben Blade scene?

• 1:06:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he said yes.

• 1:06:21Speaker 06

  All right. Well, then I can't help you.

• 1:06:22Sean Fennessey?

  The Diamonds?

• 1:06:23Speaker 06

  And that's the one where he's like, the world where you made your mistakes and the one where those mistakes can be undone is not the same world. You are at the crossing.

• 1:06:37Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:06:37Speaker 06

  What a fucking movie.

• 1:06:38Sean Fennessey?

  We've lost Tony Scott and Cormac McCarthy now.

• 1:06:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's really sad. Any other mistakes you see here in this work? This 10 or 11 films that we talked about from that? Cause, cause in theory, you'd say, well, those films need to be in the top 10. So a lot of the work here is going to be about 30 through 12.

• 1:06:54Speaker 06

  I think I, uh, I think I basically have the same 10 here.

• 1:07:02Sean Fennessey?

  I think.

• 1:07:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I stand mostly, yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. I have different order, but the same 10.

• 1:07:07Sean Fennessey?

  And I think you can comfortably say five of these movies.

• 1:07:09Amanda Dobbins?

  This isn't an order, is it?

• 1:07:10Sean Fennessey?

  It's just chronological. Yeah. That's the chronological order that I just read.

• 1:07:14Speaker 06

  Yeah. I'm just saying, I have, I have those 10 movies in my personal top 10, I think.

• 1:07:18Sean Fennessey?

  And I think the top five are widely considered, if not all time classics, truly great movies. You know, I put Alien, Blade Runner and Thelma and Louise in like kind of a class of their own.

• 1:07:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Sean Fennessey?

  I think many people would have Gladiator in that conversation as well. Black Hawk Down was kind of kicked up again. Tarantino put that at the top of his 21st century list when he did his, I think a kind of a politically fraught movie, but stylistically and aesthetically like mind blowing. Um, and then the other five, some of them are personal preference. Some of them are, um, more accepted. The Martian, one of the great crowd pleasers of the 21st century.

• 1:07:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Sean Fennessey?

  Did we ever talk about that for 25 for 25?

• 1:07:58Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think so.

• 1:07:59Speaker 06

  Are you a fan?

• 1:08:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I like, yeah. It's wonderful. I like it a lot. I was, it was interesting to go back and watch it for Project Hail Mary. Cause I don't think I had in at least five years. And even the Martian, like watching it with 20, you know, with hindsight is a little shaggy in the Ridley Scott sort of way. It's like two and a half hours.

• 1:08:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Amanda Dobbins?

  And they spend.

• 1:08:18Sean Fennessey?

  It's cutesy too.

• 1:08:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, exactly. Uh, which was, which was interesting just because I don't think we received it that way at the time. We were just like, wow, remember a good old time at the movies. But it does predict sort of what's to come in the next 10 years.

• 1:08:30Speaker 06

  Yeah. A lot of the NASA stuff is kind of twee.

• 1:08:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:08:33Speaker 06

  In, in retrospect.

• 1:08:35Sean Fennessey?

  Don Glover and Kristen Wiig and all that stuff.

• 1:08:37Speaker 06

  That's one of those movies that I, I don't even know if I can articulate this. It's actually better to just watch 30 minutes of it when, when it happens to be on than it is to sit and watch the entire thing.

• 1:08:47Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I think that brings up a challenge with a lot of his filmography in general and including his all time classics, which is like, he's a great big screen director. He's one of the great canvas painters. That's his whole thing. So when you watch these movies at home, like me watching Kingdom of Heaven at home, even though it's on a beautiful 4K, it's not the same. It's never going to be as enveloping.

• 1:09:04Speaker 06

  No, but I will say, uh, I was, I was watching Thelma last night when I got home and I was like, it's fucking ridiculous how good this movie looks. Like, yeah, it looks.

• 1:09:13Sean Fennessey?

  You watched The Criterion?

• 1:09:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 06

  It's just beautiful though. Like, you know, you're just like, this is just like two ladies on the run. Like it doesn't have to look like this.

• 1:09:21Sean Fennessey?

  It's his western. And that's the thing is it's a beautiful, it's him doing a John Ford movie with, with, um, with those two actresses at the center. Uh, I don't know. Any, anything else like pop out that you're like, we're missing something here before we start kind of getting into the nitty gritty of it?

• 1:09:33Amanda Dobbins?

  In the top 10?

• 1:09:35Sean Fennessey?

  Or whatever, in that, in that top zone.

• 1:09:38Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I think kind of the, the medium zone is what's going to be the trickiest. Like what do we, what do we want to give credit to? And what do we want to put kind of in just like the silly Ridley tier? Because everything else you are to the Martian point kind of picking for like the magical 30 minutes or the magical achievement of, you know, how it looks or a great performance or just the audaciousness of, um.

• 1:10:07Speaker 06

  Yeah. You get into also like a lot.

• 1:10:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Cameron Diaz in a windshield.

• 1:10:09Speaker 06

  A lot of, uh, personal preferences.

• 1:10:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. To me, when I was thinking about it, I feel like both White Squall and Black Rain have shooters. You know, those are movies that like people are huge fans of those movies. They're never huge movies for me personally. So I don't feel like I need to defend them when we're having a conversation like this. But if you were like, my number nine is Black Rain, I would get it. Super stylish movie.

• 1:10:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:33Sean Fennessey?

  Would it be in your personal top 10? Okay, let's do, I mean, what's his worst movie? Let's, let's just start at 30.

• 1:10:40Speaker 06

  I had 1492 there.

• 1:10:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Exodus Gods and Kings is also pretty tough.

• 1:10:45Sean Fennessey?

  It is pretty bad.

• 1:10:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Just gonna, just gonna put that there. I, you know, it can be 29. It can be 29, it doesn't have to be 30. Excuse me, I just saw what you have at 29, and I think that you're gonna need to reassess some stuff.

• 1:10:57Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:10:58Amanda Dobbins?

  You know?

• 1:11:00Sean Fennessey?

  Let's keep the audience at home engaged.

• 1:11:02Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:11:02Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 1:11:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Would you like to share?

• 1:11:05Speaker 06

  Are we, so 1492 is the turkey?

• 1:11:07Sean Fennessey?

  I'll, I'll say, I would say Exodus Gods and Kings, then 1492.

• 1:11:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:11:11Sean Fennessey?

  Or 30 and 29 in some order.

• 1:11:13Speaker 06

  I had Gucci at 29.

• 1:11:15Sean Fennessey?

  House of Gucci at 29.

• 1:11:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Which I just think, just, you've lost your joy of life.

• 1:11:20Speaker 06

  Maybe.

• 1:11:20Amanda Dobbins?

  You know?

• 1:11:20Speaker 06

  Perhaps.

• 1:11:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm sorry, Adam Driver in a turtleneck in the Swiss Alps? Or the Italian Alps, excuse me.

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  Lie.

• 1:11:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Speaker 06

  Like a pigeon. I just, I, I'm sure I was nice about it when we did it, cause I was just going insane at home or whatever.

• 1:11:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it was funny in the moment when they're having the weirdly violent sex on the office desk. And, uh, what is it, George Michael's Faith starts playing for the wedding scene. It's, it's pretty good. I had a nice time. I don't think 29 is fair, Chris Ryan.

• 1:11:49Sean Fennessey?

  Entertaining. I have not revisited it. It may be a while. Do I own it on 4K? I do.

• 1:11:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, good.

• 1:11:55Sean Fennessey?

  I do. Got the whole stack. I got the whole Ridley collection at home.

• 1:11:59Amanda Dobbins?

  You're putting that over G.I. Jane?

• 1:12:01Speaker 06

  I like G.I. Jane. Don't you?

• 1:12:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, I don't know.

• 1:12:04Sean Fennessey?

  I think there are worse movies in every direction.

• 1:12:06Speaker 06

  That's about a woman who achieves in a place where nobody expects her to, to do so, you know?

• 1:12:10Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely true.

• 1:12:11Amanda Dobbins?

  So true. You're right.

• 1:12:13Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:12:14Amanda Dobbins?

  So, so we're okay with 30, so 30 Exodus Gods and Kings, 29, 1492.

• 1:12:21Sean Fennessey?

  Conquest of Paradise, starring Gerard Depardieu.

• 1:12:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:12:24Speaker 06

  And Armand Des Sante.

• 1:12:25Sean Fennessey?

  Biopic of Christopher Columbus.

• 1:12:27Speaker 06

  A French guy, yeah.

• 1:12:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:28Sean Fennessey?

  28.

• 1:12:31Sean Fennessey?

  Now, some people would say House of Gucci, we can keep talking through that. I would probably submit A Goodyear, which-

• 1:12:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I was also going to-

• 1:12:38Speaker 06

  Absolutely not.

• 1:12:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Why did we, did I re-watch this? Did we do a 2006 draft again?

• 1:12:43Sean Fennessey?

  Possibly.

• 1:12:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Is that, why did I-

• 1:12:44Sean Fennessey?

  You think A Goodyear is good?

• 1:12:45Speaker 06

  I would, I will quit if A Goodyear is ahead of All the Money in the World? Or is behind that?

• 1:12:52Sean Fennessey?

  I, I would say they're comparable to me.

• 1:12:54Speaker 06

  It's a beautiful, first of all, who, did you fucking get body snapped?

• 1:12:59Amanda Dobbins?

  I was like, okay, so you can appreciate the setting of A Goodyear, but not House of Gucci?

• 1:13:05Speaker 06

  I like the setting.

• 1:13:06Amanda Dobbins?

  You don't like that people, like, people are having fun in House of Gucci?

• 1:13:10Speaker 06

  Tennis and makes wine with Marion Cotillard, right?

• 1:13:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I know.

• 1:13:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:13:14Amanda Dobbins?

  But it's just, it's kinda like sad and weirdly-

• 1:13:17Speaker 06

  It's boring as fuck.

• 1:13:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Emo.

• 1:13:19Speaker 06

  What are you talking about?

• 1:13:20Amanda Dobbins?

  I like that movie. And House of Gucci, they're killing people, they're in Milan, there's fashion, Tom Ford shows up, not really, but a version of them.

• 1:13:28Sean Fennessey?

  We're splitting hairs here between two unsuccessful movies.

• 1:13:31Speaker 06

  It's funny, it's like, this is what happens with these rankings, is that like, we all fucking be like assassinate one another about, what's 29? And then it's like 11, it's like, I don't give a shit.

• 1:13:42Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, that's gonna happen, cause you and I are gonna start crying about Alien Covenant, and then it's gonna be like, whatever.

• 1:13:46Amanda Dobbins?

  But like, I'm not, I'm not against that. I'm just not interested in it.

• 1:13:51Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:13:52Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:13:52Amanda Dobbins?

  And I just, I don't really know why you need to be against House of Gucci.

• 1:13:56Sean Fennessey?

  On paper, A Goodyear is very Amanda-coded.

• 1:13:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Jeremy Irons sitting in the garden in House of Gucci, just being Jeremy Irons, come on!

• 1:14:03Sean Fennessey?

  It's interesting, cause, you know, Provence, where A Goodyear is set, is a very important place to you, but you're also a fashionista.

• 1:14:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, so, so is Italy, I'm going next week, you know? Like, I contain multitudes.

• 1:14:15Sean Fennessey?

  That's true, be careful, don't break any laws.

• 1:14:17Amanda Dobbins?

  In the southern European-

• 1:14:18Sean Fennessey?

  They might not let you out of here, don't hurt Chris.

• 1:14:19Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I know. Um-

• 1:14:20Sean Fennessey?

  No violence against him on, on camera. It'll be held against you in a court of law.

• 1:14:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Why are we choosing between A Goodyear and House of Gucci at 28? Why can't we also have?

• 1:14:33Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think All the Money in the World is that bad, but why can't we have that in the conversation?

• 1:14:38Speaker 06

  I did, I put it in the conversation. I, I would, I would honestly put-

• 1:14:41Amanda Dobbins?

  G.I. Jane is not really for me, but that's fine.

• 1:14:45Speaker 06

  Did you like Dogstars more than G.I. Jane?

• 1:14:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, I guess G.I. Jane is more of like a, a whole movie, even if it's not a very good one. So, okay, Dogstars.

• 1:14:59Sean Fennessey?

  They're all different sides of the same coin, you know? It's a, it's a Dungeons and Dragons, uh, die of interesting visual components and unsuccessful narratives.

• 1:15:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Gladiator 2.

• 1:15:11Speaker 06

  Well, cause that had Denzel.

• 1:15:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:15:13Speaker 06

  And I thought, I think that he's-

• 1:15:14Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't hate it.

• 1:15:15Speaker 06

  I think-

• 1:15:15Sean Fennessey?

  You didn't hate it.

• 1:15:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't hate it either, but it did have a lot of CGI animals.

• 1:15:19Sean Fennessey?

  I really did, you can listen to the pod that we did, I think you were on leave when that-

• 1:15:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I was.

• 1:15:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, but I went and saw it at 10:00 in the morning by myself.

• 1:15:26Sean Fennessey?

  Big problems that start and end with Paul Meskell, in my opinion, but-

• 1:15:30Amanda Dobbins?

  I think that was unfair. That's my feedback on your podcast, was, it's not Paul Meskell's fault. I, I root for him.

• 1:15:37Speaker 06

  What a shock.

• 1:15:39Amanda Dobbins?

  But can you have Paul McCartney and-

• 1:15:43Sean Fennessey?

  Maximus's son.

• 1:15:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Maximus's son, then also be James Bond?

• 1:15:47Speaker 06

  Uh, that would be-

• 1:15:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think that that-

• 1:15:49Speaker 06

  The Amanda Triple Crown.

• 1:15:51Sean Fennessey?

  Why are we not asking it about whatever guy he played in Normal People?

• 1:15:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, Connell? Was that his name? Connell? Yeah.

• 1:15:58Speaker 06

  You're so dismissive of television now.

• 1:16:00Sean Fennessey?

  No, I love Normal People, I thought that was great. Daisy Edgar Jones, she's got, she's got the juice. Um, I think, I think Dogstars, All the Money in the World, for me, Robin Hood, A Goodyear, G.I. Jane, and, and, and Legend are all in this zone. I think all of those movies are all in that like 27 to 22 zone.

• 1:16:21Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I agree with that.

• 1:16:23Sean Fennessey?

  So-

• 1:16:23Speaker 06

  I think I have-

• 1:16:24Sean Fennessey?

  And each one has something about it that I like, that, and that's maybe why I'm not as dismiss- And I get, House of Gucci, I should add that to the, to the list here.

• 1:16:31Speaker 06

  I have A Goodyear and Robin Hood at 18th and 19th personally.

• 1:16:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, you have a beautiful, yeah, and you have a beautiful heart, and-

• 1:16:41Sean Fennessey?

  Chris, we saw Robin Hood together.

• 1:16:42Speaker 06

  It was pretty cool.

• 1:16:43Sean Fennessey?

  It was not cool.

• 1:16:44Speaker 06

  Roger Isaac is cooking in that movie! And they start out there like-

• 1:16:49Sean Fennessey?

  So vividly.

• 1:16:52Sean Fennessey?

  We've had a few of these, Chris and I have had a few of these, right? Miami Vice is the number one.

• 1:16:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:16:55Sean Fennessey?

  That's the number one version where we went together, and I was like, I don't know about all that. And you were like, I have seen God.

• 1:17:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Sean Fennessey?

  And I was like, is this my best friend? Like, who is this person?

• 1:17:04Speaker 06

  You're getting worried about this, cause you're like, if we agree 99% of the time, and the 1% is so upsetting for you, rather than it just being like 50/50.

• 1:17:12Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's only upsetting when you get on podcasts and you're like, this movie changed me as a man? When you're like, talking about 2010's Robin Hood, which stinks? What are you talking about?

• 1:17:20Amanda Dobbins?

  And you're like, I was there.

• 1:17:20Sean Fennessey?

  It's like a dirge, it's so boring.

• 1:17:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Do you care about Robin Hood, generally speaking?

• 1:17:24Speaker 06

  Not really.

• 1:17:25Sean Fennessey?

  Did you see the death of Robin Hood?

• 1:17:26Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:17:26Sean Fennessey?

  And did you see the news that the uprising will be a secret Robin Hood backdoor film?

• 1:17:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, sort of like what they were going to do with Tony, but that didn't do.

• 1:17:35Speaker 06

  I mean, there's-

• 1:17:36Amanda Dobbins?

  At the end, is he just saying, I'm Robin Hood!

• 1:17:39Sean Fennessey?

  What's your name, sir?

• 1:17:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Andrew Garfield singing Robin Hood, Little Don walking, that would get me in the theaters.

• 1:17:44Sean Fennessey?

  Not getting the sense that's the tone of the film.

• 1:17:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:46Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:17:47Sean Fennessey?

  But it is from your guy Paul Greengrass.

• 1:17:49Speaker 06

  And is it cause it's public domain, you can just throw Robin Hood at anything?

• 1:17:52Sean Fennessey?

  I think we talked about that, didn't we? And when we talked about the death of Robin Hood? Where are we like, this is a story that you can just kinda keep doing, you don't have to license anything. Um, just like Mickey Mouse, who's also in the public domain.

• 1:18:01Speaker 06

  Just like Moses.

• 1:18:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:03Speaker 06

  Right?

• 1:18:04Sean Fennessey?

  Damn, good point.

• 1:18:04Speaker 06

  Nobody owns the IP for Moses.

• 1:18:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:07Speaker 06

  That'd be cool if like, they were just like, Anthony, Tony, a Moses story.

• 1:18:10Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he made Exodus Gods and Kings, right? Uh, okay, so what, what, let's put some numbers against these titles. I'm gonna just start throwing some ideas out.

• 1:18:20Amanda Dobbins?

  How many times have you been to Provence?

• 1:18:22Speaker 06

  He just said, let's put some numbers against these titles, I'm gonna start doing this. And then you were like, how many times have I been to Provence?

• 1:18:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, what do you like about it?

• 1:18:31Sean Fennessey?

  I've been once and it was phenomenal.

• 1:18:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:34Sean Fennessey?

  Truly one of the most magical places in the world.

• 1:18:37Speaker 06

  It's like, I'm tired of the rat race.

• 1:18:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:18:38Speaker 06

  I've inherited this, this, you know, estate.

• 1:18:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:42Speaker 06

  And then he gets in touch with the things that actually matter.

• 1:18:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, it's under the Tuscan sun, but-

• 1:18:47Speaker 06

  Forgot, for Russell Crowe.

• 1:18:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:48Sean Fennessey?

  For Wine Boys.

• 1:18:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. You also don't like wine?

• 1:18:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:18:53Amanda Dobbins?

  What's, what's up with you and wine right now?

• 1:18:55Speaker 06

  I've, I've been loving the rosé that they're serving at Cavell. I mean, like, I've, I've just been- You missed a lot, you had two kids, you missed a lot of developments on my side, you know?

• 1:19:06Sean Fennessey?

  I've been on, I've been on some wine vacations with you.

• 1:19:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Sean Fennessey?

  You as well, but more and more with him.

• 1:19:10Amanda Dobbins?

  That's true, but that was-

• 1:19:11Sean Fennessey?

  In our early days in Los Angeles.

• 1:19:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, and we all heard about the edibles and Spanglish, right? But like, so-

• 1:19:17Sean Fennessey?

  We all, what about the young men and women who just started listening to this show four days ago?

• 1:19:21Amanda Dobbins?

  You've told the Spanglish story on this podcast before, right?

• 1:19:24Speaker 06

  I'm not afraid to say it.

• 1:19:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:25Speaker 06

  Took an edible with my wife, I did not really experience with it. I, I don't think we took the proper amount, or we took too much. We went into a K-hole and we tried to watch Spanglish, and it seemed like it lasted six hours. And then my wife was like, I need to go walk outside. And I was like, I don't know if I'll ever find you again.

• 1:19:45Sean Fennessey?

  Spanglish not directed by Ridley Scott, let's stay on track.

• 1:19:50Sean Fennessey?

  Number 26, House of Gucci.

• 1:19:53Amanda Dobbins?

  What's 28 and 27?

• 1:19:56Sean Fennessey?

  27, I, I can't believe you're going to bed for A Goodyear, my head hurts. I, we barely started this.

• 1:20:02Speaker 06

  Do you want me to just be here to agree with you guys?

• 1:20:04Amanda Dobbins?

  No! Is the rosé at Cavell from Provence?

• 1:20:07Speaker 06

  Uh, no, it's Italian.

• 1:20:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you say it was 18 A Goodyear on your list? 18?

• 1:20:12Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:20:14Speaker 06

  Right after, and Robin Hood's 19. I have A Goodyear and Robin Hood over Duelists.

• 1:20:18Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, All the Money in the World, 27. Wait, what?

• 1:20:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Sean Fennessey?

  Over the Duelists?

• 1:20:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, listen-

• 1:20:25Sean Fennessey?

  What happened to you?

• 1:20:25Amanda Dobbins?

  The Duelist is a, can be a little dog-

• 1:20:28Speaker 06

  Oh, yes, I did.

• 1:20:29Amanda Dobbins?

  The last time that we did this, I watched The Duelist again, and I was like, okay, it's good, but like, it's a little slow, it's it. All right, and now his mind is melting. But over the Goodyear-

• 1:20:38Sean Fennessey?

  A Goodyear over the Duelists?

• 1:20:39Speaker 06

  That's fucking, you should go to the hay for that!

• 1:20:42Sean Fennessey?

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:20:45Sean Fennessey?

  What kind of Ridley Scott fan are you?

• 1:20:47Speaker 06

  What are you talking about? I just, I don't need, I watched The Duelist once. It's like, take your driver's license test once and then you drive for the rest of your life.

• 1:20:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, right off the fucking cliff like Thelma and Louise.

• 1:21:00Sean Fennessey?

  Spoiler alert.

• 1:21:03Speaker 06

  You wanted to rank 30 movies. You knew this was gonna happen. And if you guys want-

• 1:21:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you came holding a fucking grenade and you pulled the pin. And you're like, let's fucking drop this thing in the middle of the room with a Goodyear and Robin Hood.

• 1:21:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, Robin Hood is also over Duelist on this list.

• 1:21:17Speaker 06

  I said I haven't seen Duelist in a long time. I'm sure it's fine.

• 1:21:21Sean Fennessey?

  It's excellent. What are you talking about?

• 1:21:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:21:23Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, alright, alright.

• 1:21:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Alright, so, so we're missing number 28. Right now, we have 30 Exodus Gods and Kings, 29 1492 Conquest of Paradise.

• 1:21:32Sean Fennessey?

  Do we have any Hannibal defenders here?

• 1:21:34Speaker 06

  I have Hannibal-

• 1:21:35Sean Fennessey?

  What, 14?

• 1:21:36Speaker 06

  At-

• 1:21:37Sean Fennessey?

  9?

• 1:21:37Speaker 06

  22.

• 1:21:39Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, it's, it's just not really in my interest set.

• 1:21:42Sean Fennessey?

  Is Dog Stars 28?

• 1:21:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:21:46Speaker 06

  Alright, yeah, I had it at 26, so that's totally fine.

• 1:21:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, and we're, and you had Gucci at 29, and we're moving it up at least to 26.

• 1:21:53Speaker 06

  You know, I feel like my list is getting a lot more scrutiny than your list.

• 1:21:57Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't, I haven't made a list.

• 1:21:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'm making it here with you right now.

• 1:22:00Speaker 06

  Oh, so I did the work, but I'm getting criticized for it?

• 1:22:04Sean Fennessey?

  As always.

• 1:22:08Sean Fennessey?

  We've got 30 through 26.

• 1:22:10Speaker 06

  Okay, alright.

• 1:22:12Sean Fennessey?

  25 through 20.

• 1:22:14Speaker 06

  I have, I'll do 20. Duelist, you can put it as far up as you want for Letterboxd. 21-

• 1:22:20Sean Fennessey?

  Excuse me, how dare you? Watch your mouth.

• 1:22:23Speaker 06

  21 G.I. Jane, 22 Hannibal. 23 Napoleon, 24 Gladiator 2, and 25 Legend. I'm not a big Legend guy.

• 1:22:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm not a Legend person either.

• 1:22:33Sean Fennessey?

  I'll put Legend at 25, that's, um-

• 1:22:35Amanda Dobbins?

  That's, that's good.

• 1:22:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know, if you put it any lower than that, eh, one day after Tim Curry's death, you should also be sent to The Hague.

• 1:22:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:22:41Sean Fennessey?

  But, the film itself is, I think, quite dull and Tom Cruise is-

• 1:22:45Speaker 06

  Just give me another, give me another sentence, I don't care, you know? Do you wanna put-

• 1:22:50Sean Fennessey?

  Another spoiler alert.

• 1:22:51Speaker 06

  G.I. Jane-

• 1:22:53Sean Fennessey?

  24.

• 1:22:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, 24 for G.I. Jane seems good.

• 1:22:55Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:22:56Amanda Dobbins?

  And also mixing it up a bit.

• 1:22:58Sean Fennessey?

  There, there are some very interesting aesthetic things about that movie. I think to be more doing her absolute best, Viggo Mortensen excellent in it.

• 1:23:09Speaker 06

  Morris Chestnut's in that movie.

• 1:23:10Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. I did re-watch it, I think, for our last conversation and it felt like it was fine. Alright.

• 1:23:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so this is where we start to get into Hannibal, Robin Hood territory for me personally.

• 1:23:24Speaker 06

  Sure, we can do that. I mean, we can, we can drop a Goodyear and Robin Hood down and move Duelists up.

• 1:23:29Sean Fennessey?

  Hannibal is a freak show, right? Like, it's a very silly sequel-

• 1:23:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Sean Fennessey?

  That is significantly worse than its predecessor.

• 1:23:41Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I don't, I don't mind watching it.

• 1:23:45Speaker 06

  It's a diabolically toxic movie.

• 1:23:48Sean Fennessey?

  It is.

• 1:23:49Speaker 06

  I admire it for that, but yeah.

• 1:23:51Sean Fennessey?

  It, it is quite gross and quite evil seeming.

• 1:23:55Amanda Dobbins?

  As I said, it's just, it's not my bag.

• 1:23:58Sean Fennessey?

  Not your interest set, yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:59Amanda Dobbins?

  But that doesn't, if you wanna, you know-

• 1:24:02Speaker 06

  That's the way Leota went, right?

• 1:24:03Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine.

• 1:24:03Sean Fennessey?

  Well, the one in which his brain is being eaten on screen, yes.

• 1:24:08Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, to me, the three Crow movies are not successful, so-

• 1:24:16Speaker 06

  Robin Hood, Goodyear-

• 1:24:18Sean Fennessey?

  And Body of Lies. Now, I know Body of Lies is one of your faves.

• 1:24:21Speaker 06

  No, it's, that's, that's one where we've got a problem then.

• 1:24:24Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I'm willing to broker with you. That's why I bring it up, because I'm saying, I'm not, I'm not letting Robin Hood and a Goodyear go much higher here. Cause I don't care, I don't care for them.

• 1:24:33Speaker 06

  Put it right there.

• 1:24:33Sean Fennessey?

  Because I know that you do have a place for Body of Lies.

• 1:24:36Amanda Dobbins?

  No one, no one said anything about a Body, well, Sean did, but not me.

• 1:24:40Speaker 06

  Okay, Leonardo DiCaprio with a new piece and his Nokia rolling around.

• 1:24:45Amanda Dobbins?

  No, Isaac, Oscar Isaac. Once again, what we're talking about right now are Robin Hood and a Goodyear. Okay?

• 1:24:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, they can, they can go down.

• 1:24:53Sean Fennessey?

  23 a Goodyear, 22 Robin Hood. How do, how do we feel about that?

• 1:24:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I like a Goodyear more than I like Robin Hood, but-

• 1:25:00Sean Fennessey?

  That's fine, swap them, that's fine.

• 1:25:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:25:02Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, they both stink. I don't know what we're talking about here.

• 1:25:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Italian rosé, and I'm not there?

• 1:25:08Speaker 06

  I, the invitation is open to you, whatever you want.

• 1:25:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I was actually thinking about bringing the kids to the home state near you.

• 1:25:14Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:25:15Amanda Dobbins?

  And then like combining a home state coval experience.

• 1:25:17Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:25:17Amanda Dobbins?

  So I could try this Italian rosé.

• 1:25:19Sean Fennessey?

  Relaxing wine bar, night out.

• 1:25:20Speaker 06

  Thinking about this right now?

• 1:25:22Amanda Dobbins?

  No, on the drive here.

• 1:25:23Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 1:25:25Sean Fennessey?

  You were thinking about that on the drive here?

• 1:25:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, you know.

• 1:25:28Sean Fennessey?

  You're about to go-

• 1:25:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, sure, but-

• 1:25:31Sean Fennessey?

  To Italy for 10 days. When are you gonna go to the wine? You're gonna have Italian wine in Italy. On your calendar. Uh, okay, number 21.

• 1:25:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm living out loud, you know?

• 1:25:42Sean Fennessey?

  What is number 21?

• 1:25:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, let's see, so what's left that-

• 1:25:46Speaker 06

  Do you like Duelist more than Someone to Watch Over Me?

• 1:25:48Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's Napoleon.

• 1:25:50Speaker 06

  Oh yeah, we gotta get Napoleon out here.

• 1:25:51Sean Fennessey?

  Napoleon is, if we're doing the bottom third-

• 1:25:54Amanda Dobbins?

  What, you, you just said that disrespectfully, but I think 21 is the right place for something that we enjoyed.

• 1:26:02Sean Fennessey?

  I can neither confirm nor deny the P.T. Anderson wrote, rewrote the script for this movie, but all the things that we talked about in the episode that we thought were so funny in that screenplay and everything that Joaquin Phoenix is doing, which I think, I don't know if it saves the movie, but it at least like shields it from some of the jankiness of the classical historical drama stuff that you expect to be so buttoned up in a Ridley movie. It certainly feels like Paul Thomas Anderson's script when it is funny in that way.

• 1:26:29Amanda Dobbins?

  The lamb chop.

• 1:26:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, yeah. And all the sex scenes and the way that he's characterized as this buffoonish guy.

• 1:26:35Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:26:36Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:26:37Speaker 06

  So Napoleon at 21.

• 1:26:38Sean Fennessey?

  This is the hardest work, 20 to 10, in my opinion.

• 1:26:43Sean Fennessey?

  I think this is, we're in Someone to Watch Over Me, Black Rain-

• 1:26:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree.

• 1:26:49Sean Fennessey?

  Last Duel territory.

• 1:26:50Speaker 06

  Do you want me to do my 10 to 20?

• 1:26:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, let's hear it.

• 1:26:53Speaker 06

  My 10 to 20, Covenant, 10. I don't know how I have this.

• 1:26:57Sean Fennessey?

  Go from 20 to 10.

• 1:26:58Speaker 06

  Okay, 20 I Duelists, Robin Hood, a Goodyear.

• 1:27:04Speaker 06

  Someone to Watch Over Me, Black Rain, Last Duel.

• 1:27:07Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:27:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:08Speaker 06

  Matchstick Men, White Squall, Body of Lies. I have American Gangster at 11. I don't know, it was in the top 10.

• 1:27:14Sean Fennessey?

  You put Covenant at 10, we didn't have that originally, and-

• 1:27:17Speaker 06

  And I have Covenant at 10.

• 1:27:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, so I would say here we should do White Squall, no, we should do Black Rain, Someone to Watch Over Me, White Squall and Last Duel.

• 1:27:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yep, I'm okay with that.

• 1:27:33Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:27:34Sean Fennessey?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:27:35Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:27:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:27:35Speaker 06

  I think we're, we're actually, we have a lot more in common than we think.

• 1:27:40Amanda Dobbins?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:27:40Speaker 06

  And that we're like, generally, we have tiers that are very similar, with some exceptions. You may be getting a little caught up on a Goodyear and Robin Hood, but like, we're, we're a lot closer than you think.

• 1:27:50Sean Fennessey?

  I just, I saw Red Meat and I just chased after it. I was going, CR likes a Goodyear since when?

• 1:27:54Speaker 06

  I've always liked that movie, I don't know why.

• 1:27:56Sean Fennessey?

  You know, it's the only movie of his not available on Blu-ray.

• 1:27:59Speaker 06

  Maybe it's because it lives as a memory for me.

• 1:28:02Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, sure.

• 1:28:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:28:04Sean Fennessey?

  So Black Rain, Someone to Watch Over Me, White Squall, and we said, what comes after that?

• 1:28:11Speaker 06

  Do you think you'd ever send your sons on-

• 1:28:13Sean Fennessey?

  And the Last Duel, yes.

• 1:28:15Speaker 06

  On a boating, like yacht summer camp with Jeff Bridges as their only mentors?

• 1:28:21Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I don't, I don't, I don't really think, I think they would need at least like one person per boy on a, on a boat. I don't trust, you know, we need man-to-man coverage at least until they're 18.

• 1:28:36Sean Fennessey?

  Let's play a little White Squall game, okay, Amanda?

• 1:28:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:28:39Sean Fennessey?

  Scott Wolf or Jeremy Sisto?

• 1:28:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, uh, in-

• 1:28:43Speaker 06

  That time?

• 1:28:44Amanda Dobbins?

  In 96, Scott Wolf.

• 1:28:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Scott Wolf or Ryan Phillippe?

• 1:28:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, Scott Wolf.

• 1:28:50Sean Fennessey?

  Scott Wolf or Balthazar Getty?

• 1:28:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Balthazar Getty.

• 1:28:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Scott Wolf or Ethan Embry? Or, excuse me, Balthazar Getty or Ethan Embry?

• 1:28:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Balthazar Getty.

• 1:28:59Sean Fennessey?

  Balthazar Getty or Zelchko Ivanik?

• 1:29:04Sean Fennessey?

  Chris, James Rebhorn or Zelchko Ivanik?

• 1:29:07Speaker 06

  I think Ivanik.

• 1:29:08Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:29:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Sean Fennessey?

  Is there anything you wanna say about Black Rain, Someone to Watch Over Me, White Squall or The Last Duel? We talked, we spoke of The Last Duel on our Flops Draft.

• 1:29:19Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:29:20Sean Fennessey?

  White Squall is-

• 1:29:23Speaker 06

  It's just-

• 1:29:23Sean Fennessey?

  Decent.

• 1:29:24Speaker 06

  A good example of-

• 1:29:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:29:26Speaker 06

  Of, he can take a 65% movie to an 75% movie, just by, by his like eye alone.

• 1:29:35Sean Fennessey?

  This is one of his most famous bombs, actually, and this never came up in our Flops Draft, but this movie only made $10 million despite its starry and exciting young cast and I think a, a setting and an idea.

• 1:29:47Speaker 06

  It's kind of a bummer of a movie.

• 1:29:48Sean Fennessey?

  It is, but it's, it has exciting components, but it really didn't work, which is kind of unusual, but he has a, a number of these over the years, I guess. Someone to Watch Over Me, I've never really joined Bill's cult on that movie.

• 1:30:01Speaker 06

  I mean, it almost exists outside of like the Ridley Scott canon.

• 1:30:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:04Speaker 06

  If it was directed by, um, I don't know.

• 1:30:08Sean Fennessey?

  Carl Franklin.

• 1:30:09Speaker 06

  John Madden, you would be like, yep, like, it's, it's just like a kind of good-

• 1:30:14Sean Fennessey?

  An atmospheric thriller.

• 1:30:15Speaker 06

  Corny cop drama.

• 1:30:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Black Rain's super cool.

• 1:30:20Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:30:20Sean Fennessey?

  A little problematic.

• 1:30:21Speaker 06

  It looks fucking incredible, though.

• 1:30:22Sean Fennessey?

  It does.

• 1:30:24Speaker 06

  I don't think there is a single street in this movie that hasn't been hosed down beforehand.

• 1:30:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, there is a wedded pavement.

• 1:30:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:30:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, uh, Michael Mann-esque crime overseas drama. Um, okay, so 16 through 11.

• 1:30:40Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda, what do you think?

• 1:30:41Amanda Dobbins?

  So, so, and we're agreed that the top 10 from the Hall of Fame have to stay the top 10? Or do we want to?

• 1:30:49Speaker 06

  No, we can keep it.

• 1:30:50Sean Fennessey?

  They don't have to.

• 1:30:50Speaker 06

  I don't think he has changed. I, I would say that different films since we've done the top 10 have risen higher for me and some have dropped down.

• 1:30:58Amanda Dobbins?

  So how is Gladiator 2 not yet on the list?

• 1:31:01Speaker 06

  Oh, we fucked up.

• 1:31:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I think, yeah, we messed up. I think Gladiator 2's gotta go somewhere, maybe between...

• 1:31:09Sean Fennessey?

  You're right, we're gonna have to fix some of this.

• 1:31:10Speaker 06

  Do you want to put Gladiator 2 in front of, do you think it's better than Napoleon?

• 1:31:16Sean Fennessey?

  I don't.

• 1:31:16Speaker 06

  So you do think it's better than a Goodyear?

• 1:31:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's right in that zone.

• 1:31:20Speaker 06

  Okay, so put it between Napoleon and Goodyear.

• 1:31:22Sean Fennessey?

  So, yeah, let's make 21 Gladiator 2. God, it's probably worse than that. Like, is Gladiator, I don't know.

• 1:31:28Speaker 06

  Will you ever watch it again?

• 1:31:29Sean Fennessey?

  Probably.

• 1:31:30Speaker 06

  But like when he dies?

• 1:31:31Sean Fennessey?

  Cause I don't respect myself.

• 1:31:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, like, not like randomly to like...

• 1:31:34Sean Fennessey?

  I just think Denzel's having an absolute blast. I think Fred Heckinger is having so much fun and Joseph Quinn, they're both, they're both, that, that part of the movie is very entertaining and gaudy and silly and, and just kind of great off the rails Hollywood stuff that I really enjoy. It's like Peter Usnov was reborn. So I really dig that stuff. All the Palmasco stuff I find very dull and I find the CGI animals.

• 1:31:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Upsetting.

• 1:31:58Sean Fennessey?

  Very disappointing.

• 1:31:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Sean Fennessey?

  The shark stuff's kind of funny, filling the Colosseum with water.

• 1:32:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04Sean Fennessey?

  And it turned out that there was some truth to that, that they did do some version of that back in the day.

• 1:32:07Speaker 06

  But it's, it's a cool idea, but it just feels very...

• 1:32:11Sean Fennessey?

  Not very well executed. Yeah, yeah, no, it's true.

• 1:32:15Sean Fennessey?

  How you doing there, guys? Everything going okay with resetting? Okay, I know, we're, this is, this is hard work. This is really not easy. Okay, so now we're down to 15.

• 1:32:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so what we have, Covenant, Body of Lies.

• 1:32:30Sean Fennessey?

  From outside the top 10.

• 1:32:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Matchstick Men.

• 1:32:33Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like Duelist at 15 is respectable.

• 1:32:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, and Hannibal.

• 1:32:37Speaker 06

  I like that.

• 1:32:38Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Hannibal's still there, too?

• 1:32:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so I think Hannibal.

• 1:32:40Speaker 06

  I thought we put Hannibal down, okay, my bad.

• 1:32:41Amanda Dobbins?

  No, we didn't, so...

• 1:32:43Speaker 06

  I think Hannibal goes after Napoleon personally.

• 1:32:47Sean Fennessey?

  At 19?

• 1:32:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Sean Fennessey?

  I'm good with that.

• 1:32:49Amanda Dobbins?

  That's fine with me.

• 1:32:49Sean Fennessey?

  Let's put Hannibal at 19 and that makes the Duelist 14.

• 1:32:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, you gonna be okay with that?

• 1:32:56Speaker 06

  Yes, I fought my battle and I lost, it's okay.

• 1:32:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:32:59Sean Fennessey?

  I, I think you should give the Duelist another look.

• 1:33:03Speaker 06

  Sure, I'm not trying to be a dick. I was like, I just happened, I'm being honest about how many, like, what movies I have returned to.

• 1:33:11Sean Fennessey?

  Haithel in period pieces, undefeated, unable to change his accent. So just some guy from Brooklyn just showed up.

• 1:33:23Sean Fennessey?

  Body of Lies has to go at 13, cause I don't get it. Like, I get, I get why you like it as a Lioness prequel, but like, I don't get it.

• 1:33:30Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:33:31Sean Fennessey?

  Do you get it?

• 1:33:31Amanda Dobbins?

  This is, I, it's one of those things where I better understand Chris.

• 1:33:36Speaker 06

  Based on the novel by Washington Post columnist David Ignatius.

• 1:33:41Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:42Amanda Dobbins?

  There, there's...

• 1:33:42Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe I should look at this again.

• 1:33:43Amanda Dobbins?

  There are some things that I treasure as a, as a way to, to, to feel closer to you idiots and Body of Lies is on the list, so I'm not gonna stand in the way.

• 1:33:53Speaker 06

  The first hour of this movie is incredible, uh, the second hour. It's, it, to me, it's just Leo's spy game and it's, you know, it's, it's okay and, and the second half of it, I think, lags a little bit. Russell Crowe is in, at his insider weight and is acting from a backyard in Bethesda, Maryland for most of the film, with any, just with a Bluetooth headphone on.

• 1:34:19Speaker 06

  I mean, what do you want? What do you want from movies?

• 1:34:21Amanda Dobbins?

  It's really true. And it's a perfect distillation of what you want from a movie. We should get you a Bluetooth headset. We haven't really done enough comedy with that. Why, like, in general, I advocate for more props, but him with a Bluetooth, let's, you know, many things are possible in this life.

• 1:34:39Sean Fennessey?

  Has anyone ever asked you to appear in a film as an actor?

• 1:34:42Speaker 06

  No, uh, I was hoping to be cast. Van and I put ourselves forward to play parts in Lioness.

• 1:34:48Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:34:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:34:49Sean Fennessey?

  Like two guys in a truck who are observing it?

• 1:34:51Speaker 06

  Like guys with data entry.

• 1:34:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 06

  Like, and all the crazy shit is happening, we're like, what the fuck?

• 1:34:54Amanda Dobbins?

  So you, you don't want to play yourself?

• 1:34:56Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:34:56Amanda Dobbins?

  You want to be someone, you want to be like a Easter egg? I feel like this is possible for you.

• 1:35:00Speaker 06

  It's, we're getting closer. We did, we, we did a bit about it on the pod and we put up an Instagram clip and Michael Kelly, the, the great character actor, said, "That's fucking funny." And then Zoe Saldana liked it.

• 1:35:13Amanda Dobbins?

  All right, there you go.

• 1:35:14Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:35:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:35:15Sean Fennessey?

  That's, that's, that's real forensic analysis of social media.

• 1:35:20Speaker 06

  I was unaware of this, I was made aware of this.

• 1:35:21Sean Fennessey?

  I see.

• 1:35:22Amanda Dobbins?

  So, people who have liked to watch clips on social media so far, we've got a list of two, Zoe Saldana, two famous people, Zoe Saldana, Travis Kelce.

• 1:35:29Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:35:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, anyone else I should, we should add to the list?

• 1:35:32Speaker 06

  Not that I know of, I don't look at the, the, the likes generally.

• 1:35:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:35Sean Fennessey?

  So someone let you know about this?

• 1:35:37Speaker 06

  Kyle let me know.

• 1:35:37Sean Fennessey?

  Was it, did she call from a Body of Lies styled Bluetooth headset? Ciara, have some news. Okay, there's two films that need to go at 12 and 11, given our lists. Those films are Alien Covenant and Matchstick Men.

• 1:35:49Speaker 06

  I think that's great.

• 1:35:50Sean Fennessey?

  I think Alien Covenant is 12, Matchstick Men is 11.

• 1:35:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Agree.

• 1:35:53Sean Fennessey?

  I like both equally.

• 1:35:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly the same.

• 1:35:57Speaker 06

  Exactly the same.

• 1:35:57Sean Fennessey?

  They're different kinds of movies. I did revisit Alien Covenant this week and it is a, it is a, it's the male version of A Bodis Ripper. It's just like sci-fi, dork fantasy shit of just like people's innards being thrashed at every turn.

• 1:36:15Speaker 06

  Probably the greatest cast ever assembled that he then kills within 40 minutes of the film starting.

• 1:36:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, which is a great trick, something I always enjoy.

• 1:36:24Sean Fennessey?

  And that leaves us with 10.

• 1:36:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:36:27Sean Fennessey?

  And this is the 10 from the Hall of Fame and now we have to order them.

• 1:36:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:36:31Sean Fennessey?

  I...

• 1:36:31Amanda Dobbins?

  We can do it.

• 1:36:32Sean Fennessey?

  I believe that Alien is his crowning achievement.

• 1:36:35Amanda Dobbins?

  I think we're unanimous at the table.

• 1:36:37Sean Fennessey?

  I start there.

• 1:36:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:36:38Sean Fennessey?

  As saying, I think that's his best film.

• 1:36:40Speaker 06

  I think Alien and Blade Runner are the two, top two.

• 1:36:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:42Sean Fennessey?

  Would you want to make a case for Thelma and Louise as number two? I think that's, there's a case.

• 1:36:45Amanda Dobbins?

  No, uh, I mean...

• 1:36:48Sean Fennessey?

  Cause it is a different register and Alien and Blade Runner are so interwoven in terms of like the worlds that they're creating and living within science fiction and the kind of like paranoid doom laden quality of those movies, whereas Thelma and Louise is very different.

• 1:37:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, I mean, I think in terms of influence, all three have their own, like, very significant lane, but, I mean, Alien, for my money, the greatest sci-fi. And then Blade Runner, just, you can't watch another movie or TV show or commercial for the next 40 years that imagines the future in any way without Blade Runner. So I do think, you know, the, the ending of Thelma and Louise and that final shot, not to mention everything about it and featuring two women in a movie that people wanted to see is important. So it's equally important, but three seems fine.

• 1:37:39Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:37:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I, like Blade Runner is like, kind of his, his, his brand after Alien.

• 1:37:45Sean Fennessey?

  Nope, you think we'll ever do Blade Runner on the rewatchables?

• 1:37:48Speaker 06

  I hope so, I think he's, it's kind of undeniable and it's begging, I think also Bill would love, I think Bill would love, like, the idea of like, what's the right version of it and like all the, the production stuff.

• 1:38:00Sean Fennessey?

  Great cast, great cast to talk about the careers.

• 1:38:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, and he also loves, what's, um, Sean Young.

• 1:38:07Speaker 06

  He loves Sean Young.

• 1:38:08Sean Fennessey?

  Sean Young, Daryl Hannah, yeah, yeah. And, oh my God, Joanna Cassidy, also fantastic.

• 1:38:15Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, number four, I, I guess Gladiator, right?

• 1:38:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, probably.

• 1:38:18Speaker 06

  Oh, I don't have, I don't have it anywhere near that.

• 1:38:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:38:21Sean Fennessey?

  Let's talk about that, I, I thought I was the Gladiator.

• 1:38:24Speaker 06

  Well, I, I think we're talking about some of my favorite movies here, so it's not a big deal for Gladiator. I had it at eight.

• 1:38:33Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:38:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:38:34Sean Fennessey?

  Do you have Kingdom of Heaven at five?

• 1:38:35Speaker 06

  I have Kingdom of Heaven at three.

• 1:38:37Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:38:38Speaker 06

  For my sins. I think I have...

• 1:38:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's a little rich for my blood. But I, I care about you and I want you to feel good about this.

• 1:38:46Speaker 06

  Kingdom of Heaven, one to one, I think is better than Gladiator.

• 1:38:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I haven't rewatched it in a while. I did see it, not the director's cut, obviously, but I remember seeing it in theaters.

• 1:39:01Speaker 06

  It's a terrible movie.

• 1:39:02Amanda Dobbins?

  And it was terrible.

• 1:39:03Sean Fennessey?

  2005.

• 1:39:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I was in college.

• 1:39:05Sean Fennessey?

  And they added 45 minutes to the cut.

• 1:39:07Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:39:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Uh, I guess I revisited some of it. I, I, I mean Gladiator won the Oscar, you know?

• 1:39:14Speaker 06

  It's fun.

• 1:39:14Amanda Dobbins?

  I understand, I understand that we want to, like, be cool, but I don't know we can be that cool.

• 1:39:21Sean Fennessey?

  Taking some, some arrows in this episode.

• 1:39:22Speaker 06

  I am, I just think she's really not over the idea that I'm drinking wine without her.

• 1:39:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Cause I didn't know.

• 1:39:32Sean Fennessey?

  I, I didn't vibe with it as much as I thought I would and I didn't, I didn't participate in the, in the director's cut stuff. I thought I did. And I, I understand why it's improved upon the original, but it being a number four, I don't, but I thought, I thought Gladiator would have been a concession at, at four from, from my perspective. Like, for, just for my money personally, I would rather watch Black Hawk Down, Prometheus or The Counselor, like, and The Martian. I would rather watch all four of those movies.

• 1:40:00Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I, I think Prometheus is the best of the bunch.

• 1:40:04Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing take.

• 1:40:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Whoa.

• 1:40:05Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing take.

• 1:40:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:40:06Speaker 06

  This is great.

• 1:40:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, have two C-sections then call me.

• 1:40:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I didn't re, I didn't look at that again, though I've seen it at least four or five times.

• 1:40:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:20Speaker 06

  I, I, like you, revisited The Counselor. That movie is extraordinary and worth noting, a personal favorite of Ridley's, probably also because it was such a...

• 1:40:31Sean Fennessey?

  It's tribute to his brother, right?

• 1:40:32Speaker 06

  Tribute to his brother, yeah.

• 1:40:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:33Speaker 06

  I think he's also like, this is, this is sort of when my style of filmmaking works best is, he did that in essentially like two weeks.

• 1:40:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, well, he tells that story about the script came in, he's like, Cormac's words are perfect, we'll change nothing, and then within five days, the entire cast, which is one of the stariest casts of its time, you know?

• 1:40:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:40:50Sean Fennessey?

  Pitt, Fassbender, Bardem, Cruise, Diaz, like, all those actors.

• 1:40:54Speaker 06

  Down to people doing one scenes like Rosie Perez and Ruben Blades.

• 1:40:59Speaker 06

  Who's the diamond merchant?

• 1:41:01Sean Fennessey?

  I thought that was Ruben Blades.

• 1:41:02Speaker 06

  No, Ruben Blades is like the guy who's like...

• 1:41:04Sean Fennessey?

  It's Bruno Ganz.

• 1:41:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, Bruno Ganz.

• 1:41:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he, he had the, the audacity to put Ruben Blades and Bruno Ganz in the same movie.

• 1:41:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think that Covenant can be number four.

• 1:41:15Sean Fennessey?

  No, no.

• 1:41:15Speaker 06

  I don't have Covenant at number four.

• 1:41:16Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, no, I meant, I don't think The Counselor can be number four, sorry.

• 1:41:20Sean Fennessey?

  I would go...

• 1:41:21Amanda Dobbins?

  It can be...

• 1:41:22Sean Fennessey?

  So you're not a Gladiator person either? This is so interesting.

• 1:41:26Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it's really good.

• 1:41:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And I, I'm, I'm with you, like, I really enjoyed it, four stars.

• 1:41:34Amanda Dobbins?

  And it's, it's not some like classics major type thing at all. I honestly just, I guess I'm not that much of a Russell Crowe person. I think it's really good and I think all of the buildings look really fake. And I just, it honestly has aged very poorly from a tech, technical perspective.

• 1:41:54Speaker 06

  It makes me hype as fuck, but I don't think it's actually particularly profound film, you know what I mean? I think it's kind of like, says what it does on the box, strength and honor and all that.

• 1:42:07Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:42:09Amanda Dobbins?

  But I mean, also.

• 1:42:09Sean Fennessey?

  You put me in the position of defending Gladiator. And I felt like, I thought I was gonna be the wet blanket about this.

• 1:42:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it should be in the top five. Cause I mean, one that.

• 1:42:16Sean Fennessey?

  So what's our audacious pick at four? If we, let's say Gladiator's five, what's four? I guess Prometheus?

• 1:42:22Speaker 06

  Prometheus or Martian?

• 1:42:27Sean Fennessey?

  I think Prometheus is a better movie than the Martian.

• 1:42:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I do as well.

• 1:42:30Speaker 06

  Then let's put Prometheus at four.

• 1:42:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, let's get freaky.

• 1:42:32Sean Fennessey?

  Let's get freaky.

• 1:42:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:33Sean Fennessey?

  I like it. Um.

• 1:42:36Amanda Dobbins?

  And I will do.

• 1:42:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I would accept the counselor at six, if you want to get really, really, really weird with it.

• 1:42:46Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I think that Cameron Diaz is, you know, not good at acting in this movie, but that's okay.

• 1:42:52Speaker 06

  You could only love.

• 1:42:53Sean Fennessey?

  You've never been more wrong in your life.

• 1:42:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, let's, let's, I'm sorry. Let me rephrase that because what she does physically is, um, is forever.

• 1:43:02Sean Fennessey?

  I've never seen an actor achieve her goal more clearly.

• 1:43:06Amanda Dobbins?

  That is true. I would say that I don't think Cameron Diaz is good at line readings in this movie. I think she.

• 1:43:13Speaker 06

  She had an idea. She knew the text.

• 1:43:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:16Speaker 06

  And she arrived. You know, and then, and then that didn't quite jive.

• 1:43:19Amanda Dobbins?

  But it doesn't matter because she does the other things with, with such force.

• 1:43:23Speaker 06

  What do you think of Javier Bardem in this film?

• 1:43:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, listen, he was in his groove from Skyfall on, you know? Just like, you know, you put on some hair and some crazy accents.

• 1:43:32Sean Fennessey?

  Do you guys watch him on subway takes talking about his love of metal?

• 1:43:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was fucking awesome.

• 1:43:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's so good.

• 1:43:36Amanda Dobbins?

  It's just.

• 1:43:37Sean Fennessey?

  So good. He likes a lot of bad metal.

• 1:43:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Sean Fennessey?

  Like really bad.

• 1:43:41Speaker 06

  He was like, rock is back.

• 1:43:44Amanda Dobbins?

  And then did you?

• 1:43:45Sean Fennessey?

  But I love his passion.

• 1:43:46Amanda Dobbins?

  And then did you see Penelope Cruz talking about how she just like researches, reads medical texts at night? When this was one of the interview, not the interview, the invite, like press junket things, where that's her hobby. She was like, I don't have a degree, but I go home and I read like very thick medical texts about the nervous system.

• 1:44:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's awesome. Wow.

• 1:44:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I mean.

• 1:44:03Sean Fennessey?

  Such learned people.

• 1:44:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. What a, what a life.

• 1:44:06Sean Fennessey?

  Much to admire.

• 1:44:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:08Sean Fennessey?

  I think they probably have a spirited marriage. What do you think?

• 1:44:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I hope so.

• 1:44:10Speaker 06

  Based on this film? Yes.

• 1:44:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:12Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 1:44:15Sean Fennessey?

  So seven is going to be.

• 1:44:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Martian?

• 1:44:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think Black Hawk Down.

• 1:44:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:44:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure. Yeah. Yes.

• 1:44:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:44:25Sean Fennessey?

  I, I, I rewatched it. I, there's a moment before the true mayhem begins when the helicopters are loading up and the men are gearing up for the battle.

• 1:44:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:44:34Sean Fennessey?

  And.

• 1:44:34Speaker 06

  Jimi Hendrix.

• 1:44:35Sean Fennessey?

  Stevie Ray Vaughan's cover of Voodoo Child starts. And to me, that was cinema.

• 1:44:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, we are in this list already valuing imagery over, uh, message.

• 1:44:46Sean Fennessey?

  Say hello Ridley.

• 1:44:47Amanda Dobbins?

  And exactly, and that's in the spirit of, of the man. So.

• 1:44:50Sean Fennessey?

  There's no doubt some discomforting perspective on, uh, African identity and how that's, their story should be told. And there's this sort of like weak faint towards the African perspective in the film, you know? That is, that really kind of undermines its goal because it's so one dimensional.

• 1:45:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Sean Fennessey?

  Um, and it is, you know, it can be read as an expression of this kind of jingoistic, American power, military propagandist machine. I don't think that's what it intends to do and mostly evades that, though there are some times where there's some glorifying going on that is not ideal.

• 1:45:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Sean Fennessey?

  There's one particularly horrible Eric Bana moment at the end of the movie that I wish was just completely cut out of the movie.

• 1:45:35Amanda Dobbins?

  There's another issue. I mean, this, this era from 2000 to 2010, you get some wishy washy actors in main roles. I mean, I, I do feel like every time we talk about movie, I'm like, well, Eric Bana's in it. And so that's really. Yeah, and Bloom.

• 1:45:51Sean Fennessey?

  And you know.

• 1:45:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. It's tough.

• 1:45:53Speaker 06

  Are you also, is this like a Munich shot you're gonna take?

• 1:45:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:56Speaker 06

  Yeah. Wow.

• 1:45:58Sean Fennessey?

  When I rewatched that, I was like, this is a stone cold masterpiece.

• 1:46:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I think that it is a stone cold masterpiece, except for the.

• 1:46:04Sean Fennessey?

  The performance.

• 1:46:05Speaker 06

  Eric Bana should switch roles.

• 1:46:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Are you kidding me?

• 1:46:08Sean Fennessey?

  What about his work in This Is Forty?

• 1:46:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That's more.

• 1:46:12Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty funny.

• 1:46:12Speaker 06

  To bring it all full circle.

• 1:46:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:14Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty funny.

• 1:46:14Speaker 06

  Mark L. Smith, who wrote Dogstars, also wrote Eric Bana's Netflix series Untamed, where he plays a forest ranger in Yosemite.

• 1:46:23Sean Fennessey?

  Haven't seen it.

• 1:46:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:46:23Sean Fennessey?

  Is it good?

• 1:46:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, that's, that's some real Dogstars core.

• 1:46:26Speaker 06

  I, I, I've gotten pretty into mountains in the last 24 months, like watching content about mountains.

• 1:46:32Sean Fennessey?

  My brother.

• 1:46:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:46:33Sean Fennessey?

  Join me in Telluride.

• 1:46:34Amanda Dobbins?

  What?

• 1:46:35Sean Fennessey?

  Come on, come out.

• 1:46:36Amanda Dobbins?

  What mountains?

• 1:46:37Speaker 06

  Well, I, did you watch the series Dark Wizard?

• 1:46:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes, in full. What are you talking about?

• 1:46:41Speaker 06

  Well, I don't know.

• 1:46:42Sean Fennessey?

  It's a climbing documentary.

• 1:46:43Speaker 06

  You know, I've seen you all summer. Told Zach about it.

• 1:46:49Speaker 06

  Uh, it's a docu-drama about a Alex Honnold sort of main rival in free solo climbing.

• 1:46:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:46:54Speaker 06

  Um, and what else did I watch? A lot of stuff like recommended if you liked this.

• 1:47:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so America.

• 1:47:01Sean Fennessey?

  Me and Chris are gonna be living in Colorado in 10 years. I'm telling you.

• 1:47:03Amanda Dobbins?

  North American mountains primarily?

• 1:47:06Speaker 06

  The Alpinist is in Alp.

• 1:47:07Sean Fennessey?

  What's your favorite national park?

• 1:47:10Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know. I don't think, do I have one? It's not, it's just like not really my scene, but you do know that I love the American Southwest. So I went back to, to New Mexico recently and I thought the boomers were evil and.

• 1:47:23Sean Fennessey?

  You gotta get into Utah.

• 1:47:24Amanda Dobbins?

  The, the natural scenery and everything. Yeah, but.

• 1:47:28Sean Fennessey?

  Arizona?

• 1:47:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Hmm, I don't know.

• 1:47:31Speaker 06

  Do you know what I find deeply moving and also really somnambulant when I want to go to bed? Ken Burns's National Parks.

• 1:47:36Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:37Sean Fennessey?

  Wonderful series.

• 1:47:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:47:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:47:39Sean Fennessey?

  What about you? Do you have a favorite national park?

• 1:47:43Speaker 06

  I love Big Bend in Texas.

• 1:47:45Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, never been.

• 1:47:49Sean Fennessey?

  Any Yellowstone?

• 1:47:49Speaker 06

  Is Shenandoah.

• 1:47:51Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know if that's a national park.

• 1:47:52Speaker 06

  Like, what would be that area?

• 1:47:54Sean Fennessey?

  It might be.

• 1:47:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Let's see, Shenandoah. I see you've closed the giant laptop.

• 1:48:00Sean Fennessey?

  Is that not the Adirondacks?

• 1:48:00Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a national park in Virginia.

• 1:48:02Speaker 06

  In Virginia.

• 1:48:03Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:48:04Speaker 06

  It's beautiful.

• 1:48:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:48:05Speaker 06

  That's Blue Ridge, right?

• 1:48:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, so now I'm Googling Smoky Mountains National Park. Oh, Great Smoky Mountains National Park is, I guess, my answer in honor of.

• 1:48:14Sean Fennessey?

  Did you go there as a child?

• 1:48:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, of course, all the time. Cause I mean, that's where like Dollywood and, and you know, Knoxville's not that far from it.

• 1:48:19Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:20Amanda Dobbins?

  Chattanooga, Ruby Falls.

• 1:48:25Speaker 06

  Arches in Zion for you?

• 1:48:27Sean Fennessey?

  Zion was life changing. I need to go back there, although I'm so much physically weaker than I was when I first went there. When I, when I went there, I was like, I'm probably the strongest I'm ever gonna be.

• 1:48:35Speaker 06

  Don't underestimate yourself.

• 1:48:36Sean Fennessey?

  And you gotta get back in the gym. Um, we have 10 through eight to do.

• 1:48:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:48:42Sean Fennessey?

  So.

• 1:48:43Speaker 06

  What's left?

• 1:48:44Sean Fennessey?

  We need to put American Gangster, Kingdom of Heaven and the Martian on the board.

• 1:48:49Speaker 06

  I think it probably goes, for the purposes of our podcast, I think we all know it's gonna go American Gangster, no Martian American Gangster, Kingdom of Heaven.

• 1:48:59Sean Fennessey?

  No. 10 is American Gangster, in my opinion.

• 1:49:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I agree with that.

• 1:49:03Speaker 06

  I think you, you misunderstood.

• 1:49:04Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, you were on the other one.

• 1:49:05Speaker 06

  You think American Gangster's better than Martian?

• 1:49:07Sean Fennessey?

  No, I do not.

• 1:49:08Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 1:49:09Amanda Dobbins?

  So the Martian, number eight, Kingdom of Heaven, nine, American Gangster, 10. I think that's right.

• 1:49:14Sean Fennessey?

  You agree?

• 1:49:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:49:16Sean Fennessey?

  I know you want Kingdom of Heaven higher.

• 1:49:17Speaker 06

  That's okay.

• 1:49:18Sean Fennessey?

  What do you want to take out? You want to take Gladiator out, put Kingdom of Heaven in there? That's what you really want?

• 1:49:21Speaker 06

  I mean, that's what I said. I said that I think it's actually secretly a better film. And when I say secretly, according to me.

• 1:49:27Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, your strong point of view is part of what makes this such a special company, you know? I think this is.

• 1:49:33Sean Fennessey?

  Not even joking. I.

• 1:49:37Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know, Amanda, what's your zaniest opinion here? What's something that you, when you look at what we've done here and ranking these 30 films?

• 1:49:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49:43Sean Fennessey?

  Which will probably be our last ever Ridley Scott episode. We will not need to speak about this. God willing, he lives another 20 years.

• 1:49:49Speaker 06

  But we won't re-rank these movies.

• 1:49:50Amanda Dobbins?

  To 108.

• 1:49:52Sean Fennessey?

  This podcast.

• 1:49:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, so right now we're looking at May 2028. We've extended it.

• 1:49:58Sean Fennessey?

  It's because of X-Men.

• 1:49:59Amanda Dobbins?

  Cut of X, because of X-Men.

• 1:50:00Sean Fennessey?

  We got April will be Beatles.

• 1:50:01Speaker 06

  No, you guys, you guys have to keep it going until Heat Two. What are you talking about?

• 1:50:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay, so once he.

• 1:50:06Sean Fennessey?

  I know.

• 1:50:07Speaker 06

  A late 28 probably.

• 1:50:08Amanda Dobbins?

  But weren't we told that that's yours? That's yours and Bill's?

• 1:50:11Sean Fennessey?

  Bill already claimed Chris for Heat Two.

• 1:50:12Amanda Dobbins?

  I know. I heard about this.

• 1:50:14Speaker 06

  Oh, he did?

• 1:50:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:15Speaker 06

  He did to your face?

• 1:50:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:50:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:17Speaker 06

  I see him a lot. It's hard to remember everything he says.

• 1:50:19Sean Fennessey?

  I was listening. I don't know what podcast it was, but he was just like, I know you're always on the big picture and you got a lot of loyalty to those guys, but for Heat Two, you're mine.

• 1:50:28Sean Fennessey?

  All right, good to know.

• 1:50:30Amanda Dobbins?

  So.

• 1:50:30Sean Fennessey?

  So we don't have to wait for that. We can wrap it up with X-Men.

• 1:50:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:33Speaker 06

  And then what are you guys gonna do?

• 1:50:35Sean Fennessey?

  Surf.

• 1:50:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm gonna learn about the national parks.

• 1:50:40Speaker 06

  Lucrative.

• 1:50:41Sean Fennessey?

  No, I'm gonna move to Provence. Open up a winery. Get in touch with myself. Sure, of course, my whole family.

• 1:50:46Amanda Dobbins?

  And I'm gonna move with Marion Cotillard, so.

• 1:50:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

• 1:50:50Sean Fennessey?

  Um, that would be kind of weird if I left my family and moved to Provence.

• 1:50:53Speaker 06

  If Lea St. Dhu is waiting there.

• 1:50:55Sean Fennessey?

  Man.

• 1:50:57Sean Fennessey?

  So special.

• 1:50:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:58Sean Fennessey?

  Um. Any, any zany takes? Any top rope stuff you want to do here at the end?

• 1:51:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Don't we feel that most of the zany takes are in the list?

• 1:51:08Sean Fennessey?

  Prometheus at four is, is zaggy, but in a way that I like.

• 1:51:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Counselor at six, you know? It's the most honest version of Ridley Scott.

• 1:51:17Speaker 06

  So the conventional wisdom would be that matchstick men should be higher. I assume gangster should be higher. Kingdom of Heaven and Counselor should probably be lower.

• 1:51:27Sean Fennessey?

  I think Prometheus and Counselor are very divisive.

• 1:51:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:51:30Sean Fennessey?

  Very divisive. You and I especially have always been into them. In fact, I don't know when we wrote about Ridley. Did we write about Ridley for GQ? Or Tony for GQ?

• 1:51:39Speaker 06

  I thought we did Ridley for Grantland.

• 1:51:41Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe we did Ridley for.

• 1:51:42Speaker 06

  Cause wasn't it the genres finding inside height of each of these movies or something like that?

• 1:51:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and we did something similar about Fincher, but at Grant, at GQ, we wrote something about Tony Scott. We were sort of like, it was when Unstoppable was coming out and it was like, why doesn't anybody talk about Tony Scott? Tony Scott is one of the great auteurs. Let's revive him in a kind of a mainstream way, even though he was basically just kind of like a for hire.

• 1:52:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's like Unstoppable and stuff.

• 1:52:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, genre guy. Um, and then we did a couple of different versions of that and we wrote about Ridley. Was it on for Prometheus or was it for the counselor?

• 1:52:11Speaker 06

  I think it might've been Prometheus, cause that would track with like when you had moved out here, we went and saw Prometheus at Cinerama.

• 1:52:16Sean Fennessey?

  With Andy.

• 1:52:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, so those two movies were always very big for us, but they were sort of similar to my Congo story earlier this week. I'd read reviews and people would be like Prometheus, one and a half stars.

• 1:52:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:26Sean Fennessey?

  What the fuck?

• 1:52:27Amanda Dobbins?

  That was crazy. I don't really understand that.

• 1:52:29Sean Fennessey?

  But there's very few people I think would put it, put it at four, even though we all like it for different and similar reasons. Um, it's interesting that he has made three Alien films.

• 1:52:41Sean Fennessey?

  I never would've guessed that 10 years ago.

• 1:52:43Speaker 06

  He's like mad that he doesn't get to make Blade Runner still and that he lost the rights to that.

• 1:52:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that is so interesting. All right, I'm gonna read the order. Is there anything else you want to share?

• 1:52:52Speaker 06

  Nope. I, I think that I, I made my best efforts to revive Goodyear on this pod.

• 1:52:57Sean Fennessey?

  You got to share your point of view.

• 1:52:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:59Sean Fennessey?

  Right? Did you feel that you got to do the same?

• 1:53:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Absolutely. I'm still reeling on the mountains thing from the last 24 months. What about oceans near mountains?

• 1:53:11Amanda Dobbins?

  That's really, wow.

• 1:53:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:53:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, like, I don't know you anymore.

• 1:53:14Sean Fennessey?

  She doesn't want the mountains because she feels trapped.

• 1:53:17Speaker 06

  I thought you don't like it because you don't like flat.

• 1:53:19Amanda Dobbins?

  It's flat spaces. It's flat spaces that I don't like.

• 1:53:21Sean Fennessey?

  The plains, yeah, Montana.

• 1:53:22Amanda Dobbins?

  When you ask my favorite national park, I couldn't be anything in Montana because when I went to Montana, I was like, where do you hide?

• 1:53:28Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there's a lot of mountains in Montana, too.

• 1:53:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I was on the plains. I was in Big Sky Country and it was just like it went on forever and ever and ever. I like mountains.

• 1:53:37Speaker 06

  Did you ever decide who you're hiding from?

• 1:53:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, just, you, you never know.

• 1:53:41Speaker 06

  But like Dog Star is hiding or, or?

• 1:53:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:44Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:53:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, just, no, not like survivalist. It just, just like a very primal, every day I wake up and my job is to survive, you know? And I gotta be scanning.

• 1:53:54Speaker 06

  What are you talking about?

• 1:53:56Sean Fennessey?

  If you could be a movie podcaster or a reclusive writer of mystery novels who lives on top of a mountain, what would you choose?

• 1:54:05Amanda Dobbins?

  I have to be on a mountain?

• 1:54:07Sean Fennessey?

  No, well, it's funnier that way, but continue.

• 1:54:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I mean, it matters if I'm living by the ocean.

• 1:54:12Sean Fennessey?

  In this hypothetical scenario, it matters?

• 1:54:14Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. Because if I'm living like by the ocean and I'm writing mystery novels.

• 1:54:20Sean Fennessey?

  Never just get a straight answer, are you?

• 1:54:21Amanda Dobbins?

  That seems great, but mountains, eh, I pick this podcast. So there you go.

• 1:54:26Sean Fennessey?

  That's heartwarming.

• 1:54:27Amanda Dobbins?

  You know?

• 1:54:27Speaker 06

  That's nice.

• 1:54:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Altitude really fucks with you or fucks with me anyway.

• 1:54:31Sean Fennessey?

  It takes one day and then you're fine.

• 1:54:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but I don't know. I just, like, I like them and I like beholding them.

• 1:54:38Sean Fennessey?

  Before Dog Star started, I turned to Amanda and I said, um, next year, or no, 2028, I go to Venice, you go to Telluride. And she got really tight and like nervous, like anxious.

• 1:54:51Speaker 06

  Which, what we should do is make her go to like a drive-in movie theater festival in the middle of nowhere where there are no hills, like in Big Sky Country.

• 1:55:00Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Number 30 is Exodus Gods and Kings. Number 29 is 1492 Conquest of Paradise. 28, The Dog Stars. 27, All the Money in the World. 26, House of Gucci. 25, Legend. 24, G.I. Jane. 23, Robin Hood. 22, A Good Year. 21, Gladiator 2. 20, Napoleon. 19, Hannibal. 18, Black Rain. 17, Someone to Watch Over Me. 16, White Squal. 15, The Last Duel. 14, The Duelists. 13, Body of Lies. 12, Alien Covenant. 11, Matchstick Men. 10, American Gangster. 9, Kingdom of Heaven. 8, The Martian. 7, Black Hawk Down. 6, The Counselor. 5, Gladiator. 4, Prometheus. 3, Thelma and Louise. 2, Blade Runner.

• 1:55:39Sean Fennessey?

  And number 1 in the Ridley Scott 30 film all-time rankings from The Big Picture is Alien.

• 1:55:48Amanda Dobbins?

  How you feeling?

• 1:55:49Speaker 06

  I actually thought of another question I wanted to ask you about Jacob Elordi's clothes.

• 1:55:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Go ahead.

• 1:55:54Speaker 06

  Do you think that if the world functionally, like, society collapsed tomorrow, would you, if you were one of the survivors?

• 1:56:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:02Speaker 06

  And had, let's say, pretty decent access to clothing?

• 1:56:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:56:07Speaker 06

  Let me finish.

• 1:56:08Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:56:10Speaker 06

  Do you think you would continue to iterate your style? Or do you think you would stick with the clothes that you were wearing and the style that you had the day the society collapsed?

• 1:56:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, don't you think necessarily at some point, if you survive long enough, you do have to iterate? Because the clothing?

• 1:56:25Speaker 06

  The leg cut of your jeans?

• 1:56:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, at some point, if you're wearing the jeans and wearing them out to the extent that Jacob Elordi is, because, you know, he's doing manly stuff, like fishing and feeding dogs and sawing, then theoretically, because this is not a world that is producing new things, right? Like, he has, he has access to supplies because he has a plane and he actually still has weapons.

• 1:56:52Speaker 06

  He could probably go to Uniglo in Denver, but where else, you know, it's like?

• 1:56:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. And, and, but like, he can get some things, but he's gonna run out of, he's gonna run out of supply of vintage Levis that fit him specifically, right? Because, and I was thinking about like, okay, so that's a, that's a pretty long cut of jean, right? For 6'5". Um, you know, it's like a big and tall store situation. So he's gonna run out and I guess you have to iterate. Oh, but for me. Oh, I'm sorry. Do you have somewhere to be?

• 1:57:26Sean Fennessey?

  I do.

• 1:57:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. For me?

• 1:57:31Sean Fennessey?

  Just been checking my email here. Continue.

• 1:57:34Speaker 06

  Where do you have to go?

• 1:57:36Sean Fennessey?

  You know, it's only my daughter's first day of kindergarten, so, you know.

• 1:57:39Speaker 06

  Okay. So, anyway.

• 1:57:42Speaker 06

  No, I'm just kidding. I just wanted to know whether you think style is a function of like consumerism? Or whether like you would have like?

• 1:57:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it's a function of consumerism and also a, a function of, to me, it's an expression of, of self, an expression. But I think that the ways in which I would want to express myself, were I just surviving and trying to find a continuing contact supply?

• 1:58:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:58:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Would change and I probably wouldn't need the reinvention on such a regular basis.

• 1:58:18Speaker 06

  I would shop at Dick's Sporting Goods for the rest of my life. Thanks for joining The Big Picture.

• 1:58:26Sean Fennessey?

  You guys done?

• 1:58:28Sean Fennessey?

  Thanks to Jamie and Sarah for filling in in Jack Sanders's absence. Appreciate you guys. Thanks to Lucas Cavanagh for his production support. So next week, I got one with you and I got one with you.

• 1:58:39Amanda Dobbins?

  It's beautiful.

• 1:58:40Sean Fennessey?

  With you, we're previewing the fall film slate. I'm gonna tell you this right now. Here's what I'm thinking.

• 1:58:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:44Sean Fennessey?

  You choose five movies you can't wait to see.

• 1:58:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:58:47Sean Fennessey?

  And then you choose three movies you think everyone should see that you've already seen.

• 1:58:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:58:51Sean Fennessey?

  Sound good?

• 1:58:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I can do that.

• 1:58:52Sean Fennessey?

  And I'll do the same.

• 1:58:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Beautiful.

• 1:58:54Sean Fennessey?

  You?

• 1:58:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Sean Fennessey?

  We have something fun planned.

• 1:58:57Speaker 06

  Very special.

• 1:58:57Sean Fennessey?

  We've seen the film Onslaught.

• 1:58:58Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:58:59Sean Fennessey?

  And it inspired an idea, which I'm loosely calling the Black and Chrome Action Pack, which is a very specific kind of movie. Think The Terminator. That Onslaught is paying homage to and that Chris and I will build a kind of tribute to, a canon.

• 1:59:16Speaker 06

  Do I, should I still see Insidious for that pod?

• 1:59:19Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen it yet and I don't think that's necessary. We're gonna do a 10 movies we missed later in September.

• 1:59:23Speaker 06

  Okay, Amanda can see Insidious for me then?

• 1:59:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:26Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I heard the jump scares are pretty good.

• 1:59:27Speaker 06

  I'm not against seeing it.

• 1:59:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:59:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:59:30Sean Fennessey?

  But I feel like our mission, which we have accepted already, will be more than enough and soon you'll, you'll be disappearing.

• 1:59:38Amanda Dobbins?

  That's right.

• 1:59:38Sean Fennessey?

  Into the wilderness of Europe.

• 1:59:40Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm doing, I'm doing.

• 1:59:40Sean Fennessey?

  Like Jacob Elordi.

• 1:59:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Doing the fall preview.

• 1:59:43Speaker 06

  So will you not be here for Resident Evil?

• 1:59:45Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I'll be back by then.

• 1:59:46Sean Fennessey?

  She'll be back.

• 1:59:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Sean Fennessey?

  But will she be on the Resident Evil podcast?

• 1:59:51Amanda Dobbins?

  I'd like to see it, but we don't know anything about screenings.

• 1:59:54Sean Fennessey?

  Not a thing.

• 1:59:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:55Sean Fennessey?

  Until then, we'll see you next time.