Olly Alexander: “I couldn’t accept my identity” Queer joy and mental distress co-exist

There should be no shame in being who you are. Musician and actor Olly Alexander has felt first hand how grappling with your identity can lead to poor mental health. In this chat with Fearne, Olly explains why he feels there’s such a high level of mental distress in the queer community, and how acting in It’s A Sin helped him unpack his own lived experience. Both Fearne and Olly share their experiences of poor body image, wondering if bulimia felt like a helpful tool to regain control in an intimidating world. How can you go from disliking your body to recognising the brilliant things it can do for you? Plus, how to let yourself off the hook when you’ve messed up at work or in a social situation, and what to do when you don’t feel you’ve ‘achieved’ enough to be of value... Olly’s solo album, Polari, is out in February. CONTENT WARNING: This episode contains frank chat about suicide, self-harm, and bulimia, so take care while listening. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Perrie Edwards https://pod.fo/e/279633 Rebel Wilson https://pod.fo/e/238d13 YungBlud https://pod.fo/e/25cf34 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:27Fearne Cotton?

  Before we start, this episode contains chat you might find difficult to hear, so do check the show notes for more details if you need. Hello and a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that grapples with fundamental questions about identity. Today, I'm chatting to Ollie Alexander.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  People in the queer community, we'd kind of inherited some, some issues, right, around being able to live our lives the way we want to. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right? And that can manifest in these quite complex and variable mental health problems. It happened to me, you know, and it wasn't just because I was gay, but I knew that because I was gay, that was affecting the way that I, you know, had all these high levels of shame. I just couldn't accept my identity.

• 1:12Fearne Cotton?

  How are you, lovely lot? I hope you're okay. Now, this is weird because I'm recording this little intro a bit ahead of time, but I know by the time this episode comes out, I will have had to have an operation. And I'm hoping that I've mentioned that on Instagram already because I certainly plan to, because I don't beat around the bush or pretend that anything's happening other than my actual life. So I found a benign tumour, well, I found a little lump and it's a benign tumour, just below my ear, on my jaw, with a little one above it. So the beginning of the December means an operation and then rest, which for me is, like for many of you, an alien concept. Can't quite imagine how I'm going to rest or how that's going to feel, but I'm hopefully going to be right now watching Wolf Hall, because that is my plan, and loads of other

• 1:55Fearne Cotton?

  good TV, and hopefully seeing some friends. So I'll be doing a bit of resting. That's why I had to scramble and get all my Christmas prep done in November, quite frankly. So if you are going through something similar, or you are out for injury or whatever, we're in this together. I'm going to hopefully be under a blanket. I hope you are too, if you're listening to this during some sort of recovery. And hopefully, I'll be back at it very, very soon. But there'll be no break in the podcast. We've been extremely organised. And we've got episodes for days, so don't worry about that. But that's where I'm, I will be at. You know, I can't quite imagine it at this point in time. I guess it all feels a bit abstract and a bit too surreal to feel anything about it.

• 2:39Fearne Cotton?

  Um, what I will say is if you feel a little lump or bump, always go get it checked. I'm glad I did because you never know how these things are going to turn out. And I feel very grateful it's benign, but if you leave these things, that might not be the case. So, um, maybe that's a little nudge for you if you do feel like something's a bit off to go and get a little check. And I wish you all very well. So today then, Ollie Alexander. Now you'll obviously know him from the utterly incredible music he makes with Years and Years. But now he's gone solo. He's releasing his first solo album, well, the first album under his name in February. It's called Polari, which takes its inspiration from the almost lost art of Polari. And Ollie is going to explain exactly what that means so eloquently in a moment.

• 3:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, we talk about some really lovely things in this. First of all, I had to explain to him why I was wearing joggers. I was wearing joggers because I was having one of those days where I couldn't get my shit together. I'd bought this really lovely outfit with these new blue shoes that I love, that are sort of velvet high heels. I don't know what it was. I had this real block of, I can't get out of my joggers. I need to stay comfortable today. So lovely producer Anushka went, well, just stay comfortable. You don't have to put a silly outfit on. Just wear your bloody joggers. They were a bit grubby, okay? They had something on them, like a bit of food. Um, but Ollie didn't mind and had a cosy jumper. I just, it was a cosy day. I needed coziness. And Ollie was wearing a cosy jumper, so I felt all right about it. We talk about the history of gay culture, which was fascinating, so interesting.

• 4:09Fearne Cotton?

  We talk about shame around identity and we talk about poor mental health. One thing that we do touch on, and this is probably a bit of a warning if any of you have experienced this, or this is a triggering topic for you. We do talk about bulimia, which Ollie and I both have experience in. Um, so I found that greatly comforting, actually, really comforting. Also, I will absolutely not apologise for how much we talked about cats at the start of this. If you don't like cats, tough shit.

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• 5:07Speaker 04

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• 5:55Fearne Cotton?

  Just a quick one before we get to the show. I can't believe I'm saying this already, but, guys, have you got any summer plans yet? Well, you have now, because early bird tickets for our Happy Place Festival 2025 are going to be available in early 2025, so that's very, very soon. And I could not be more excited about all of the live podcasts, and the meditations we're going to be doing, and the shopping, and the sober dancing with the brilliant DJs. So come and join us, we'd love to see you there. If you want to come along, head to happyplacefestival.com to sign up to be the first to know when early bird tickets are available. Right, let's crack on, here's the show.

• 6:58Fearne Cotton?

  Hi Ollie.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Hi Fern.

• 7:00Fearne Cotton?

  So I have to be really honest, I bought with me a really zhuzhi outfit with these like blue shoes, blue sequin trousers and I got here, you know those days where I just thought, I haven't got it in me to put that on. So I'm in tracksuit bottoms and I'm really apologetic, but I didn't have it in me, I don't know why.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  No, but you look lovely, you look relaxed, maybe it would have been too much if you'd been wearing the like fancy outfit.

• 7:22Fearne Cotton?

  It felt too much.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  I felt a bit intimidated.

• 7:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, well I don't want to intimidate you.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  I'm just in a jumper and jeans.

• 7:28Fearne Cotton?

  I love your jumper.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Thank you, and you're in a nice jumper.

• 7:30Fearne Cotton?

  I reckon we could talk about jumpers or cats for about an hour and that would be the episode.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  That'd be amazing.

• 7:37Fearne Cotton?

  How are your cats?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  They're really well, thank you so much for asking, I was actually just saying on the way here, like people, lots of my friends talk about their young children, you know, and I'm like, hey, I can relate, my cats do this, they keep me up all night, they wake me up early, they always get into little fights.

• 7:51Fearne Cotton?

  Why are cats so great?

• 7:52Speaker 02

  They really are the best, I grew up with cats and ever since I've moved to London, I've been waiting until I could get my own cats and then two years, well, a year and a half ago I got my two cats and I just can't believe, it feels like I've had them forever.

• 8:03Fearne Cotton?

  You can't imagine life without them.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  I absolutely can't and it's, that really is their house, their rules, like I just, my routine is based around the cats.

• 8:11Fearne Cotton?

  That's why I love cats because there's no fucking about, they're like, this is what you're gonna do for me and you're gonna do it now and your world revolves around what I want.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Totally and it's very different to, I mean, I love dogs as well, I've never actually had a dog, but I feel like a dog, you know, their owner is the god, do you know what I mean? But cats, they're their own gods, they do whatever they want.

• 8:28Fearne Cotton?

  Dogs are more hard work, you've got to go on a walk, you've got to like take them out for a poo, cats just go, I'm just gonna go in the garden, shit in the bush, is that cool and you go, yeah, bye. Cats are so good, what are your cats called?

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Fanta and Sprite.

• 8:40Fearne Cotton?

  Fanta and Sprite, I've got Simon and Frank.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  That's so cute, do you have lots of names for them?

• 8:45Fearne Cotton?

  Um.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  We're literally gonna talk so much about cats.

• 8:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's more, it's more the voice, I do a stupid voice when I'm talking to them, I talk to them like they're idiots, but I'm the idiot.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  No, I completely, I do the same thing.

• 8:57Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, Fwink, I called Frank, Fwink, Fwink. And he's sat there going, what are you doing?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  It's a good thing cats can't talk because they tell us what idiots we are.

• 9:07Fearne Cotton?

  They'd go, you absolute dick, leave me alone.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  You embarrass me so much.

• 9:10Fearne Cotton?

  You embarrass me so much, but we've decided cats are better than humans and that is the law.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  Well, a cat, I mean, it's such a beautiful relationship with a cat. They never argue with you, they never, you know, they just love you. It's so sweet.

• 9:22Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best feeling. I'm so happy for you, having your cats.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 9:26Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm also happy for you because you have got your first album under your name out very soon indeed called Polari.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:33Fearne Cotton?

  Now, I was really interested to learn about the word Polari. You educated me greatly. I was scrolling through all the texts that you wrote on Instagram describing the meaning behind the word and the history behind the word. So tell us a bit about that.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, well, so Polari is the name of a kind of slang that was spoken in Britain. It actually has roots that goes really, really far back, 18th, 19th century. And it's a slang that's made up of all these different kinds of languages and dialects. So it's got Romani, it's got Cockney rhyming slang, it's got Italian words, German words, words that are just flipped back to front. And it was called Polari and it was spoken by all these different kind of marginalized groups. And it was kind of spoken in the theatre, in circus, among circus performers, people who were on ships. Kind of quite like communities that often moved around a lot. So that's why it got this influence, all these different languages. And then it was adopted by gay men as a way for gay men to kind of communicate with each other openly, but in secret.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  So they could talk about, you know, a guy they fancied or what they might be up to later that night without fear of being arrested. Because, you know, being gay was criminalised at that time. So it has, and so that's a very potted, tiny little explanation.

• 10:42Fearne Cotton?

  No, it's so cool to learn about it.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  But it's really fascinating and it's had such an interesting journey over the decades really and centuries. Because even by the 1960s, it had really fallen out of fashion. It wasn't really spoken anymore, but it was kind of, there were drag queens like Edna Everidge who started to use it. It became part of their kind of act and it's really synonymous with that sort of UK drag culture. Polari, like very working class, like it's just got such a rich. And fascinating history and I was so inspired by by all of that really, what it feels like to be gay and come from that sort of history. But also what it means to speak a secret language and to kind of have a code between you and the people around you. And as an artist, I feel like I do that with songs and then.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  As a community, being in a gay community, you do that all the time. You do that with your friends, you know, so so it was very inspiring to me. Yeah, so.

• 11:31Fearne Cotton?

  I went down such a rabbit hole. I ended up watching videos of people speaking in different dialogue and it was just, it was so, so cool. I just loved learning about it. And. I on your Instagram, you said, actually, previously you hadn't really looked into gay history. It hadn't been something that had really pulled you to sort of go and and do that research, but. Maybe your role in It's a Sin was something that ignited that, it being a period piece essentially.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  One hundred percent. I know, so crazy that it's a period piece.

• 11:55Fearne Cotton?

  It's very depressed, but it is a period piece.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  I know. Yeah, it is. And no, absolutely. Like, doing that show just really allowed me to kind of go into this. This this part of my life and my history that I'd always been a bit scared to go towards in a way.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  And, yeah, I mean, just the experience was so incredible in so many ways, but I'm so happy that it allowed me to grapple with my own identity and how it kind of fits in the world and where it's come from. And. You know, it really was like, oh, all these pieces kind of coming together for me, like, learning about all that history. It really helped me understand myself.

• 12:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and that show, I mean, I can't imagine what it was like to be part of. It was so beautifully received. Everybody was just raving about it when it first came out and it's it was just so well loved and. Obviously, it being set in that era throughout the HIV AIDS epidemic. There's many people, I mean, I've got friends who lived through that era and remember it extremely painfully and well, and I can only imagine the feedback that you got from people who. Remember that time and losing friends and losing family members. Like, I imagine you got so much feedback from people.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Yes, I think it just resonated so deeply with people in like loads of different ways. And the people that were there, I think what was so cool. To hear in their response was that we we they were like, that was what it was like. You captured it really well, this kind of real blend of joy and and fun and then. Dream fear and stigma and and silence and things happening and being pushed under the carpet and not knowing what was going on because a lot of people that lived through that time, they didn't even know what was happening necessarily unless you were had friends who were in those communities. It was all very pushed under the carpet. And I think what Russell did is amazing and everyone that made it to sin was allowed those stories to kind of come out into the open and for people to share what happened to them and

• 13:42Speaker 02

  what that made them feel. And I think there's like real healing that can happen when when you do get to discuss something like that. So that was amazing. You know, people still come up to me all the time and say, wow, it's a sin was was amazing. And it's so cool to to be part of that.

• 13:56Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And also that era, you know, it really ramped up homophobia because people were sort of conflating being gay with having AIDS. And it was just such a toxic time for people to be living through that. I mean,

• 14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:12Fearne Cotton?

  We do see now today a lot more queer joy and TV shows like It's a Sin and people living more freely. You know, I'm probably looking at maybe people that I know and maybe it's a niche group on Instagram. But obviously, homophobia still hugely exists. I wonder, is it any better, really? Like, we're getting more balance because we're we're seeing, as I said, so much more queer joy. But it's still there, living alongside it.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I honestly, I think about this a lot, you know, because, you know, doing like doing it's a sin, we had this kind of direct comparison, you know, to go, here was what happened in the 80s. And look how far we've come now. And there are all these material changes, material progresses that we've made in terms of like, medical care, in terms of acceptance, in terms of rights and, you know, legislation. And you can really tick those off. But of course, like, there's this flip side to I think, you know, the progress of what's it they say, like, history doesn't move in that linear trajectory. Because it feels like there are wins and losses all the time. And and I think the world gets more and more fractured. And we we're all feeling like we live in a more divisive time

• 15:24Speaker 02

  than ever. So I think an identity has become such a huge part of our cultural conversation and about the way we see each other and the way we communicate. It's like, what's your identity? And I think so, I guess the problems and issues kind of develop as as.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  As even though you make these great changes and gains. And it also really depends on who you are, because everyone's living in these different environments and different circumstances, you know, like so. And we have all this information coming at us all the time, you know, we're able to hear stories and hear voices from all around the world. Queer people are everywhere, you know what I mean? So, so that's great, but then you, you, you see how much they're still left. How much pain and misery and the awful circumstances that so many people are still in. So it's like there's real dissonance to just living that experience. Does that make sense? I don't know.

• 16:12Fearne Cotton?

  Of course, well, it's also the fact that people still have to come out. It's still this moment of.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  I know.

• 16:17Fearne Cotton?

  You have to reveal yourself to people in a way that.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:21Fearne Cotton?

  Is taken for granted otherwise. So there is still, there is so much progress to be, to be had.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  I know.

• 16:28Fearne Cotton?

  So much progress to be had. One thing I just thought was so brilliant was your documentary that you made about.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 16:34Fearne Cotton?

  The connection between growing up being gay and mental health problems. And it was a confronting topic and something you've obviously got direct firsthand experience of. What, what did you learn about yourself, I guess, through, through that process?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, so much. I, um. Yeah, I, I kind of suspected that, because I just like anecdotally amongst friends and stuff. I felt like people in the queer community, we'd kind of. It's, we'd kind of inherited some, some issues, right, around being able to live our lives the way we want to. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right? And that can manifest in these quite complex and variable mental health problems. It happened to me, you know, it's not, and the reason that, you know, because I was growing, when I was growing up and a bit younger than I am now. I definitely had a whole kind of tranche of mental health issues I struggled with. And it wasn't just because I was gay, but I knew that because I was gay, that was affecting the way that I, you know, had all these high levels of shame.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I didn't know how to deal with, I just couldn't accept my identity. So I suspected that was similar to like other people going through similar experiences. And maybe that sounds obvious, but I just wanted to find out what other people's experiences were. And I was, I guess.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Not shocked, but taken aback by the levels of kind of mental health problems that are just so prevalent amongst the community. And doing the documentary was really trying to explore that link, like, why are there high levels of mental distress amongst the queer community? And like, there are loads of reasons why, like, let's try and get into that. And every individual case is going to be different.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  And I think as well, like, that documentary was 2016, 2017, and there was a real rise in kind of talking about mental health in the public space and kind of people in the, in the public eye really bringing it up in conversation. And I think it was kind of part of that, which was really great to get, to get on to. But I almost feel like, well, where do we go now? Because we can't, you know, I don't know, like, what happens next is kind of like my question. I don't know.

• 18:35Fearne Cotton?

  We're, you know, people are really suffering and struggling and, and there's all sorts of systemic issues and things that, you know, none of us can necessarily fix overnight. We can keep talking and we can, I think, you know, that's why I loved your documentary. And I love that you're very open about talking about your mental health because I do think it's not going to solve issues, but I do think I'm very open about my own and you do hope that someone out there feeling really lonely in it and isolated can think, oh, Christ, okay. Other people out there who are seemingly doing things they love are really struggling or have really struggled and have maybe moved through it. You've been very honest about depression, anxiety, bulimia, self-harm.

• 19:18Fearne Cotton?

  If we're playing some sort of mental health bingo, I've had three out of four of those.

• 19:23Fearne Cotton?

  And, you know, fucking awful, like, really tough shit to get through. What came first for you? Can you even pinpoint it? Because I think when I look back at my own mental health and try and chart, what was I feeling first? What came first? For me, I thought it was the bulimia because it was such a

• 19:40Fearne Cotton?

  visual kind of expression of how I was feeling, but maybe there was something before that. I don't know. What about you?

• 19:48Speaker 02

  I, so when you were just saying that just then, I thought of, um, I was really into, I'm gonna take a bit of weird direction here.

• 19:57Fearne Cotton?

  We like weird.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  I was really into gymnastics when I was like ten years old. Nine, ten, eleven, I went to like a youth gymnastics thing in the Forest of Dean. And I loved it because I was getting to use my body and it was a little bit like dance, but it wasn't kind, and I wanted to do dance, but I was a bit scared to kind of go that far. And I got quite obsessed of going to, doing this gymnastics. They wanted me to go like three times a week, then like every night a week. They were like really, they were trying to train people to like go compete at high level.

• 20:22Fearne Cotton?

  God, you could have been in the Olympics.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  I know, no.

• 20:24Fearne Cotton?

  There's still time.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  That's legit, that's my secret thing where I still think I secretly could go and do gymnastics.

• 20:29Fearne Cotton?

  Come on.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 20:30Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  You know who can though? Benson Boone. Did you know that?

• 20:32Fearne Cotton?

  What, do a backflip?

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:33Fearne Cotton?

  Oh.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  He's quite incredible.

• 20:34Fearne Cotton?

  Learned something new today.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Um, anyway, sorry, what am I saying? Anyway, so, and then I started going to gymnastics and I, I don't know what happened, but something started to go funny with my eating. And actually, sorry, at the same time, my parents were separating. And I think you're kind of getting into that, your body's developing puberty, I'm starting to have an awareness of my identity that I didn't previously, like going to secondary school and all of that. So it's all happening at the same time. And I remember I like started to really restrict my diet and I just couldn't do my gymnastics training anymore. I was too, I was like, you know, too weak to go or just, that didn't really leave me for like ten years, basically. Um, throughout school and I, and I felt like it kind of, you know, I stopped the gymnastics and, you know, I was at school and that was fine. That I was kind of bullied quite a bit in my primary school and then picked on again a bit in secondary school.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  And I was still trying to figure out my sexuality and then I started self harming when I was like fourteen, fifteen and the bulimia started around then as well. And I think, yeah, I just, it was all this kind of cauldron of kind of like, ah, who am I? Like, I'm not right, I'm not good. There's something wrong with me, like, and trying to find these ways to get at that, whatever that was and.

• 21:45Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you're trying to cope, aren't you?

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 21:47Fearne Cotton?

  You're trying to find a way to just cope with what's going on in your head and.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:51Fearne Cotton?

  You know, I can only speak personally, but I think, I didn't necessarily restrict my food beforehand maybe, but with the bulimia, there was an element of I needed some control.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:01Fearne Cotton?

  But, you know, ironically, you're sort of completely out of control because you haven't got a hold on it at all. But I felt like it was some sort of. Moment of control and also something that was just mine. There was something sort of secretive that I quite liked about it. And I don't know what that's about. Can you, can you look back and make sense? I don't know if you can make sense of it, but can you kind of try and work out, oh, why was I doing that? What was the feeling that I was getting from it? Or what was I trying to gain from? Or, I don't know what the language is. I'm just only talking from my own point of view because I definitely know it was something about control. Even though that's a bit blurry even.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  But I understand, I really relate to that because I think that's definitely part of it for me as well, especially when things feel so chaotic and out of your control. What's something you can control? It's, it's your body. You think in your mind, anyway, you think that. And I was very much kind of at war with my body. I didn't like my body. I didn't like the way it looked. I didn't like that I was skinny, that people, and that was sort of like a strange thing as well because I was restricting my diet and I was making me skinnier and I think there's this, it's an act of punishment, but it's also an act of like trying to survive, like coping. So it's this very

• 23:22Speaker 02

  you kind of trap yourself in this very conflicted just spiral with your own body and the way you treat it. And, you know, we, we hope that we can love and tend and care for our bodies, you know. So it feels so wrong that if you don't do that, it feels, I had a lot of guilt around it. And similarly, I didn't tell anyone. I kept it secret.

• 23:43Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  As I could for as long as I could because I just felt so ashamed about it and I didn't want to talk about it and I didn't want people to worry. And I was like, oh, well, I'll get over it at some point and and it just got really bad. And for me, it just got to a point where I, I like got some health problems, like a regular heartbeat and I had to go to hospital and I was like, this is my, I was living with my mum and she was so distressed.

• 24:06Fearne Cotton?

  Did she know what was going on?

• 24:07Speaker 02

  She didn't really know very much and, but she found out and I couldn't hide it from her anymore. And it just like really, I was like, okay, this has to, this has to stop. And I didn't stop for a while, but that was definitely a turning point as well.

• 24:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, I had such a similar situation. My mum. Sort of somehow worked out what was going on.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:25Fearne Cotton?

  And I'd moved out, because mine went on for about ten years and she moved, I'd moved out and she came to my house and sort of door stopped me and I was mortified. It's just devastating because I thought, I don't want to stop doing this. Like, don't, don't out me. I don't want you to know about this. But I think, like you, it was a real turning point. It didn't stop, but it was a moment of, oh shit, this is real. This isn't some little fantasy in my head that I've created this little world.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:48Fearne Cotton?

  This is actually a real thing and it's going to have health implications and yada, yada. And it is a really tricky one to get out the cycle.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:56Fearne Cotton?

  To then heal, but then also to like your body.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  I know.

• 25:00Fearne Cotton?

  Where are you at with that?

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, it's, um, I, I feel like I'm in a good place. Like, I actually think I love it.

• 25:11Fearne Cotton?

  Good.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Like, not all the time, you know, but sometimes I really do. And there was a big shift in me about, yeah, maybe five or six years, maybe a bit longer. When I started going, I started exercising again, uh, but in a way that wasn't sort of like, I must have my body in this shape. I just, just sort of kind of casually fell into it and it started to make me feel really good. And I realised my body, I wanted to be able to do things. I wanted, I wanted to like last a long time and just get me through the day. I don't want to feel, you know, especially when you're touring and stuff, when you're doing things, I'm sure, like anybody, like you need to nourish your body. It's really simple, but I can't believe how, how difficult it can be to just three meals a day, look after yourself. That can just be so tough.

• 25:56Fearne Cotton?

  Why is it so hard?

• 25:58Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 25:59Fearne Cotton?

  It sounds so simple on paper and it's really hard.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Um, but like now, I feel like I look after myself better than I ever have and I like what my body can do, you know, it gets me around. A to B, I'm so thankful. Um, so I have that kind of relationship now. Of course, I get sometimes in these spirals where I go, I wish I looked different. Or this was different, but it's just kind of, I, I sort of like watch it happen away from me now instead of kind of being like, bruh.

• 26:25Fearne Cotton?

  That's such an important thing when you have that step back and you're slightly detached and you can, you're an observer of the behaviour, all the thoughts.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:32Fearne Cotton?

  Such a big game changer. So what, how did you heal? What was it? Therapy? What was your?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Did it happen?

• 26:37Fearne Cotton?

  What happened?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  I know. Um, well, I guess, yeah. So it's like so many combination of so many things. I mean, I still. Yes, therapy for sure. I have had like so much therapy and

• 26:53Speaker 02

  I guess time and like getting older has helped, obviously. I had to really, have you seen Inside Out?

• 27:02Fearne Cotton?

  Of course, I love Inside Out.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  It's so good.

• 27:04Fearne Cotton?

  I met the guy that created it not long ago. He's amazing.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. I love that movie so much. It's so good. And I watched the second one recently.

• 27:10Fearne Cotton?

  So good.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  I was just like, it felt like massaging my brain. So I was like, finally I see a visual representation of what's going on inside there.

• 27:16Fearne Cotton?

  Maybe we don't need therapy. Maybe we just need to watch Inside Out every day.

• 27:19Speaker 02

  Exactly, on a loop. But where she has that, like her, there was that moment in that second movie, and I know it's for kids or whatever, but like

• 27:25Fearne Cotton?

  It's for everyone.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  It's for everyone. And that she has that core belief about her and it switches from like, you know, I'm good or whatever, to I'm not good enough. And I was like, oh, I know what that's like. I've had that for a long time. You know what I mean? It's this constant kind of kind of tug of war and, and, and, uh, and that comes from a lot of different places, you know, like I felt very to blame for like my parents separating and for like health issues that were happening in my family. Like, I really felt like, oh, if I can just become this exceptional, amazing performer and really like lift my, and like get my mum a house, help my brother out, do X, Y and Z, fix everything, then I'll have, I'll be good, you know?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  So I, I was just really stuck in that for, for a long, long time. And, um, I, I'm lucky that I had a lot of help and support, you know, like I had a really good therapist. So I, right, right before I got signed to a major label, I like found this really good therapist.

• 28:21Fearne Cotton?

  That's the right way around to do it. Not post being a pop star, before you're a pop star. That's what you need to do it.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  And I'd had some before, help before that as well. And I think because you know, I was lucky that I could have access to that. I mean, I moved to London when I was eighteen because I, I did an acting job and I had enough money that I could just like rent for a while. So I was spending a bit of money every now and then on like a therapist, but I didn't really have enough to like just keep doing it. It wasn't until I like started to make money where I could actually pay a therapist every week, do you know what I mean? And like, that's just the unfortunate nature of like being able to access what everyone should be able to access.

• 28:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  And so I don't know. So I was just kind of trying to like Work at, you know, and like I was, and like when I was living in London, I was kind of jobbing actor, I was trying to make it with years and years, I just couldn't, like I needed my body to work, I needed it to like, and I was just not treating it well, I was pining all the time at the weekends, I just wasn't in a good place. And I actually remember a moment as well where I, I was totally sober, but I fell over, I tripped and I knocked my head and I got concussion. I don't know if you've ever had concussion?

• 29:24Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  It was awful.

• 29:25Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 29:26Speaker 02

  It really, really spun me out for, for, for, perhaps even for months afterwards.

• 29:28Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just thought there was something on my brain, that my brain was bleeding. And so I was, I was actually in and out of A and E, going to A and E all the time, going, I'm, I'm dying, like, I'm having a panic attack. Obviously, there were panic attacks, but I was convinced I was dying and this concussion had altered me somehow. Anyway, it was, and there were all these things happening and then years and years kind of started to take off. And I ju, I think I just managed to kind of align myself in a slightly better place to take on what was going to come next. And so I wasn't, you know, I was in a better place with my diet, I wasn't self harming. And, and also I take antidepressants, you know, and I have done for like 15 years. I still, I still take, I mean, I'm on actually a very, very low dose now. My doctor was even like, it's probably placebo.

• 30:09Fearne Cotton?

  That's good to know.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  That'll good.

• 30:11Fearne Cotton?

  It's not doing anything, great.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  It's just a little tic tac.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  So, so that was a really long answer, but I guess it's just like, I don't know when I, when it started to happen.

• 30:22Fearne Cotton?

  Well, there isn't always a moment.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:24Fearne Cotton?

  It's an incremental combination of all sorts of factors and things.

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• 32:17Fearne Cotton?

  I'm wondering, so, you know, obviously, I was at Radio 1 when Years & Years came out and it was just a huge, big deal and you're all of a sudden these international superstars and the schedule you're working to is outrageous. But at this point, when you've kind of, you've done the, you've done the dream, you're a big superstar, you're very successful, you can buy your mum the house, whatever, did you feel enough then?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  No. No. So annoying.

• 32:48Fearne Cotton?

  So annoying. It doesn't work like that.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I know.

• 32:52Fearne Cotton?

  And we forget, we think it's gonna work and it doesn't.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was quite shocked and then also that it wasn't changing me and then embarrassed that I had held on to this belief for so long that becoming successful and famous or whatever would, would make me a different person or something, because I, I didn't think that that was what I was expecting. But I thought something would happen, there would be some transformation that I would feel different, but...

• 33:16Speaker 02

  But sometimes the opposite happened, where the kind of the gulf between who you feel that you've become, put on this elevated place, and who you feel like you really are inside, starts to widen and widen and widen, you just think, oh no, this is, it can feel like a bit of a nightmare. I mean, that sounds really dramatic.

• 33:33Fearne Cotton?

  No, I know what you mean.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  I didn't, you know?

• 33:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  It's not like it was always like that, but, but, but, and I was only 24, 25, which seems so young to me now, and it is young.

• 33:43Fearne Cotton?

  It is young. It's young to be dealing with that bombardment of outside opinion.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:49Fearne Cotton?

  And praise. I think that can be really tricky. We assume it's going to make us feel great, but like you just said, it can completely throw you, and you think, well, am I worthy of this praise? Am I actually who they think I am? Do they like the real me? There's so many things that come with that success. But I think the most important thing, and weirdly, I did a talk this morning, and it was along these, these lines of, we assume that when we get the job, or the partner, or we are the shiny pop star, whatever the thing is that you think's going to fix you, you get there, and then you go, oh shit, I've brought myself along. Like, I'm still me. I thought I was going to be the new person, and I'm still me. Why hasn't this worked? And we all believe it, and we forget it, even in like tiny, tiny ways, like when we're on holiday or something, and we think we're

• 34:33Fearne Cotton?

  going to then be changed for life. And

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:35Fearne Cotton?

  Until you sort your shit out, you're still going to bring your old self along. And it's a really tricky one to square with and go, oh, okay, I can still be ambitious, I can still have drive, but I know I'm going to be the same person. And, you know, even sorting your shit out, you're still you, but you maybe can cope better, and you can deal with your lot.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:57Fearne Cotton?

  It's a tricky one.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  It is.

• 34:59Fearne Cotton?

  Where's your anxiety at today? How's that going?

• 35:02Speaker 02

  My anxiety was actually middling today.

• 35:06Fearne Cotton?

  Okay. In what way?

• 35:09Speaker 02

  I don't know, because I was kind of nervous to come and speak to you, if I'm honest.

• 35:12Fearne Cotton?

  I'm like the least scary person ever.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  You literally are, but it's because I think to speak, even though I've spoken like really openly about all my experiences, it still always feels like, even sometimes now, I feel like it feels, it just feels hard still.

• 35:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  And I listened to actually Perry's episode and I was really moved by how just honest she was and and she's so smart and but and like she was just, everything she was saying, I really related to it. And I think that it's like, oh gosh, having to go to that vulnerable place isn't always, it's always, it's not always easy. And I feel like for me as well this year, I've been really trying to like just really be like, okay, I try and get to grips with,

• 36:02Speaker 02

  I don't know, like how I feel about myself as an artist and, you know, because I have so much anxiety about like so many things about being an artist and it really, I feel like it really kind of kills the joy. And I'm really trying to like both, so I'll find myself trying to just put that in a, put, compartmentalize it and ignore it. But then it bubbles back up and you're like, oh no, I have to deal with this, you know, so it's kind of, so you're always sort of in that tussle a bit.

• 36:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  And yeah, but my, so sorry, that was a, that was a long answer.

• 36:31Fearne Cotton?

  No, I get it. Look, it's complicated. And that's the whole point of these conversations is none of this stuff of mental health is linear, you know.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:38Fearne Cotton?

  You have good days and then you have bad days. I'm going through a period right now where I haven't weirdly had any anxiety and it's kind of freaking me out, you know, I was.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Anxiety about not having the anxiety?

• 36:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I know. What an absolute lunatic. I was so plagued by panic attacks. I thought, oh, this is me for life, blah, blah. I've actually luckily found a bloody good therapist and it's changed so much for me.

• 36:59Fearne Cotton?

  But the panic attacks aren't there.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:01Fearne Cotton?

  And I can't put my finger on why. Some of it, I think, is something to do with what you're talking about, which is. Feeling you can do your job well, you can be an artist in your case, yet you can still have unsolved mysteries of mental health and you can still, I now turn up to work like I have today going, for some reason I can't put a nice outfit on, I'm really blocked. I can't put the fucking high heels on and I don't know why I can't do it today. I know I can do the job, but there's that bit where you go, no, I meant to turn up all shiny and look professional and blah, blah. But I'm sort of all right with living in the mess of it all a bit now.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:40Fearne Cotton?

  And I'm really finding comfort in that, that things can be really fucking messy actually. And it can all still function and be all right. So I think the worst thing any of us can do is talk about this stuff openly and go, yeah, it's all in the past, I'm fixed, I'm, everything's perfect now. And then everyone at home's going, yeah, but how do I get there? I want, I want to get there and you can still overcome hurdles, whatever, but it's not linear. It's, and it's, it never will be.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  It's really not. And I think you're so right, you have to kind of, what, what helps me is to just acknowledge that everything's like fucking paradox. Like everything is just like, kind of contains this like opposing.

• 38:19Fearne Cotton?

  Yep.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Conflicting feelings, you know, it's like, I want to be here, I don't want to be here. I'm good enough, I'm not good enough, you know?

• 38:25Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  I, I think that is just, that's us unfortunately. And especially if you do something which brings you into contact with like, you know, other people, which is most of us, right? But I'm just thinking as an artist, as a performer, or as, you, you, you're kind of, we're all in this feedback, right? This almost feedback loop with social media, with how we're perceived. And it's just very kind of, um, that's going to trigger anxiety in anybody.

• 38:49Fearne Cotton?

  Of course.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  No matter who you are. So I think can help to acknowledge that it's just a lot sometimes.

• 38:55Fearne Cotton?

  It's a lot. And I'm wondering, you know, I've obviously been lucky enough to interview so many people that their job is being on a stage, whether it's acting or singing or whatever. Do you have moments where you're so in your flow on stage that there is just no anxiety? You are just literally in it.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, I do, yeah. I know, which is why I love it so much.

• 39:14Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. Is that a bit of a safe space for you then, do you think?

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes, but I don't always get there. Like, I don't always have that. And sometimes I like, feel like it gets completely like knocked off its perch. I'm like, ah. But when it all feels like it's working, and I can get there like in the studio, making music. You just feel connected to something that's outside of your body and. But performing is always so amazing when you feel in that moment. Cause you're just connected with the audience. You're just there on stage with the band, the music, it's all just, you know. And I love that feeling. It really is quite transcendental, you know. But it's also very boundaried because you're on stage, you're singing a song that has a beginning, middle and end. You're here, some, the audience is there, you know, it's a show. It's, there are those kind of easy to understand rules.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  And then outside of that, it's um, just like chaos.

• 40:06Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it is.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  But, yeah.

• 40:09Fearne Cotton?

  Get on that stage.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Get, get, but then, I don't know, I don't like always have that. Like sometimes, and that's when I feel really sad, like if I'm on stage. Cause I'm like, this is what I love. But if I'm there and it's not working and I feel just, oh my God, I'm singing badly. Or the audience aren't on my side, or this is gonna sound terrible on television. Like, I just.

• 40:31Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's the pit.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  I hate it.

• 40:33Fearne Cotton?

  Well, it's do, it's when your mind gets in the way of doing something you love. It's so awful. I, you know, I had it with doing live telly, you know, I don't wanna do live telly. I might in the future, but I haven't done it for years. Cause my anxiety is so bad in that setting, I don't feel safe.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:48Fearne Cotton?

  I feel really safe now and I can literally say anything and I'm wearing a fucking tracksuit. But on TV, I don't feel safe. I feel like I've infiltrated someone else's front room and I've got to be perfect. And that makes me just lose the plot. And it's so awful when you think, I can do this really easily, but my mind's stopping me from doing it. It's so horrible.

• 41:08Speaker 02

  It's so frustrating. I really thought that like all the way through when I was doing Eurovision, because Eurovision was.

• 41:12Fearne Cotton?

  I can't imagine, how many millions of people watched in the end? What was the figures?

• 41:15Speaker 02

  I don't know, I think it's like over a hundred and fifty million.

• 41:17Fearne Cotton?

  It's just ridiculous.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  And I just go to myself like, I, I can do this, I can do this, I'm a singer, like, I, I do this all the time. But, but when it came to doing the performances, just, and also it was so kind of concentrated on this one song. It was all you're doing is performing a song. And I also felt like things would just kept going wrong. Like I was kind of cursed or something, like the audio would cut out, my mic pack would fall off or just something would go wrong. And I was just getting this extreme anxiety about performing this song. And it's like, okay, well, you've got to go out and do it, and literally in front of a hundred and fifty million people. So you better get it together, Ollie.

• 41:48Fearne Cotton?

  I feel anxious thinking about it.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  I know, I know. It was, it was quite, yeah, it was, I mean, I'm really proud of what I did. Like, in the end, I was so, I loved it. I think it was, it was, it was great, but it was, it was tough.

• 42:02Fearne Cotton?

  The pressure is immense. And there's no margin for error these days. You know, people are sort of much less forgiving if things are a bit wonky or something doesn't happen as, as it's meant to. There's just, I hate that. I hate that.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  We're so used to perfection as well, like hearing and seeing it, because everything can be tweaked and altered and made, and made perfect, so.

• 42:20Fearne Cotton?

  I'm trying to go against grain with that one. Like, this morning I did a podcast on Zoom and I called the guest Leanne and she's called Leon. And normally I think I would have really beat myself up about that. I'd done a very, like, comprehensive bit of research as well, but I just didn't hear anyone say her name that loud. And then I thought, who cares? I'm a human. Like, I'm not a robot. And I really let myself off the hook. And it's down to us, isn't it? Like, we let ourselves off the hook. It's not what everyone else is saying.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  This is the thing, and this is, like, we place these expectations on ourselves all the time. And they can come from other people, like, you know, you feel this burden to perform and say and do a certain thing, but it's, a lot of those expectations come from ourselves, you know? It's like, well, I need to just give myself a break here. And like, like you say, most of this stuff, it doesn't matter. Really? I mean, it, it, it, it's.

• 43:07Fearne Cotton?

  It just doesn't matter.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:08Fearne Cotton?

  You know a really dark thought I have?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Go on.

• 43:11Fearne Cotton?

  Which is like, if something goes a bit wrong, I think, I'll be dead in a hundred years.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 43:16Fearne Cotton?

  No one will give a shit. And that's so bleak, but I just think, no one will care. But we put so much pressure on, what's everyone gonna say? And what's everyone gonna think?

• 43:25Speaker 02

  But that's also why it can feel so maddening at the time, because this is how I felt during Eurovision. I'm like, this is a song contest. It's about songs. Like, we're all just here singing, singing our little songs. But, but it feels so far from that. And it's just, it's bizarre.

• 43:37Fearne Cotton?

  Like you're going into a battle of sorts.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  This is so strange that it's. That it happens this way, but it does.

• 43:43Fearne Cotton?

  So what are you feeling about this new album with everything we've just discussed? This is, it's a big deal for you. It's your first album under your name.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:51Fearne Cotton?

  You know, you, you want that to go, but you're proud of it. You want people to receive it in the way that you've produced it. What did you, what did you want to say on it?

• 43:59Speaker 02

  Well, this album, I guess like, yeah, it's a big deal for me to be doing this under my own name. Because I didn't really think I would until relatively recently when I was like, no, it's time to do this. And it's a really an album, it's like a love letter to being gay, really. I mean, and it's also about love. Cause I'm very in love with my partner and we, we actually got back together like, and so a lot of the songs are kind of about like finding love and.

• 44:22Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I love it.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I was also really inspired by what it means to be gay, be a gay artist and kind of speak across decades, you know, to like your, to the people that came before me and inspired me, you know, all those artists and people and everything. So that was just kind of what I was trying to do with Polari to try and channel all of that. And it's just sort of funny timing really to be an artist putting out music. Like the industry is completely wild. It's just, and the, the kind of the rules and the infrastructure that have been in place for the last kind of 10 or 20 years. It's gone. Completely gone. It's all different and that's really exciting, but it's also kind of scary.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  And especially if, you know, I've been on a major label for 10 years. I'm actually on my last album now. I have this feeling of actually like excitement and liberation because I'm about to sort of, I also feel a bit like the label of, because Dizzy with Eurovision. I like really begged them to like, give me the budgets and the money to do all of that. And it didn't really make a huge return for them, let's be honest. So they've kind of washed, I feel a bit like they've washed their hands of me a bit and they're like, okay, well, just do what you want. It's your last album. It's fine. But that's actually been such a good thing for me because it just means I can just do what I want.

• 45:39Fearne Cotton?

  Just be you.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  And just be me and put it out there. And I actually. You know, of course, I want it to do well and I would, I would love it to be received well. But I am just so grateful that I'm getting to do it in the way that I want to do it. And, and let go of the kind of, any expectations of how it's going to perform commercially or. I didn't do it for that, you know what I mean? I really didn't.

• 46:00Fearne Cotton?

  You can't because you just can't. You have to do it because you love it.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:05Fearne Cotton?

  It's the only thing you can do it for is the joy of the process.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  It really is. And a lot of stuff can get in the way. It can make you go, I don't like this anymore. Or like, you know, people don't like it, so I don't want to do it. Or like, people are mean. And I definitely get in my head about that, like, oh my god. People are gonna just tear me apart and tear me down. And they do, but it doesn't feel so bad. And also. I'm not doing it for them, you know, I'm doing it for me, like literally, I don't, no one else.

• 46:33Fearne Cotton?

  Best thing ever.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:35Fearne Cotton?

  And that's probably because you're in a really good place of liking yourself.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 46:38Fearne Cotton?

  I've definitely had that switch of like, I, I don't want to do all this stuff so other people like me anymore. What do I want to do? What do I want to say? Some people might not like it. Tough shit.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Life's too short, isn't it?

• 46:51Fearne Cotton?

  It's too short. It's really freeing.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:54Fearne Cotton?

  How exciting.

• 46:55Speaker 02

  So yeah, so that's, that's good. I'm kind of, yeah, so I feel good about it. I feel like, um. It's just such a crazy, I mean, it sounds so stupid, but it really is such a crazy world. And I feel lucky, like really lucky to be doing what I'm doing still, you know, like, because I do love, I love it, so we'll see.

• 47:13Fearne Cotton?

  Well, it shines through everything you do. I love watching you perform. I just think you're the best and you've just got such beautiful charisma on stage and I'm so excited to see what you do next.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 47:25Fearne Cotton?

  The new iteration of the liberated Ollie.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:29Fearne Cotton?

  It's exciting.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  That's nice.

• 47:30Fearne Cotton?

  I've loved talking to you today, Ollie. Good luck with everything.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Thank you, Fanny. You're so sweet. And like, thank you for being such a caring and light, like a person of light, you know what I mean? And I feel like you're very, and you always have been, and ever since I've known you, like really caring and you. Remember you sent me some like really cute happy place, like kind of, um, like, like a notebook and everything ages ago. I loved it.

• 47:50Fearne Cotton?

  I love a little gift.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was so good.

• 47:53Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thanks, Ollie.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  So thank you for having me.

• 47:55Fearne Cotton?

  Lots of love.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:58Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, Ollie. Oh, Ollie, do you know what? I felt so full of love when he was talking about how he was nervous about opening up and being vulnerable and how it's draining doing stuff like that, talking about your problems in front of loads of people. I really appreciate Ollie for doing that. It's not easy. And I just thought it was a lovely episode and I really want to be his best friend. I don't know how to go about it. I mean, I'm kind of saying it here and putting it out there. I don't know if he's going to listen to this, but I sort of feel like we could be really, really good best mates and we could like just chat about cats and where will he jumpers and he could maybe sing to me. It's just an idea. It's just a thought. Ollie's solo album, Polari, is out in February.

• 48:43Fearne Cotton?

  In what ways do you feel like your identity and sense of self are connected to your mental health? I wonder. Let's chat about it on Instagram. Let me know, at Happy Place Official. By the way, that episode that I mentioned that I'd recorded with Leanne, who's actually called Bloody Leon, I was talking about Leon Moriarty, the absolutely amazing author. Her book, Here One Moment, was our November Book Club pick. So you can actually listen to that episode if you want. It was really nice. I loved that chat. All right, I'm back here next week, of course.

• 49:14Speaker 03

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• 49:43Speaker 07

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• 50:13Speaker 06

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• 50:45Fearne Cotton?

  My time with you is the highlights of my sodding week. But in the meantime, a massive thanks again to Ollie, to the producer and Ashka Tate at Happy Place Studios, and to you, I love you.