Caller: “I Envy My Daughter’s Relationship With My Husband”

📋 Weekly Rundown (your weekly marriage check-in) On today’s episode, we hear about: A wife envying the relationship her husband has with their daughter A man wondering how to win over his father-in-law A woman whose husband won’t let her take birth control Next Steps: 🔥 Microhabits for a Better Marriage: ⁠https://ter.li/l3b369p1⁠ ❤️Join Dr. John Delony at Money & Marriage Getaway 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Go to Joi + Blokes and get 65% off labs and 20% off products. Working knives for working people—go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I'm find myself being jealous of the relationship that my husband has with our oldest daughter. You know, my husband's a great guy and I didn't have the kind of relationship that I see them have.

• 0:18Dr. John Delony?

  Would it be the annoyance stems from grief? I should have had that with my dad and I didn't.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee, but not really live. I'm live right now, but you are not hearing this live. Hey, we're taking calls, real calls from real people going through real challenges, relationships, mental, emotional health, kids, everything in between. Um, we're pulling up a seat next to each other, figuring out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you click the link in the show notes. Don't forget the greatest marriage app on the planet, the Together app will change your marriage, one action step at a time. Go to the Apple store and download it right away and you can bring your spouse in and

• 1:12Dr. John Delony?

  I don't, it doesn't cost you anything extra, right? It's, I know everybody's struggling financially and the things are tight. Prices things so that everybody can do it for, for, from now until perpetuity. And you can bring your spouse along for no extra charge or you can do it in one player mode. If you just want to be the change inside your own marriage, go download the Together app right away. All right, let's go out to Richmond, Virginia and check in with Emma. What's up, Emma?

• 1:37Speaker 00

  Hi, hi, Dr. John. How are you?

• 1:39Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great. How are you?

• 1:41Speaker 00

  I'm good, nervous and ready.

• 1:43Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, I'm glad you're here. All right. So what you got? What you got? What's going on?

• 1:49Speaker 00

  Um, I'm calling because I'm find myself being jealous of the relationship that my husband has with our oldest daughter.

• 1:57Dr. John Delony?

  Ooh, tell me about this. Good one.

• 2:00Speaker 00

  Well, it's so annoying and I hate myself for it because it's really good. It's a good thing that they get along so well and that they enjoy like similar things and similar music and movies and stuff like that. But sometimes like when they're being silly and just, you know, like on the couch, just being goofy, nothing crazy or anything, just being, um, annoying to each other. I'm like, but that I want, I wish he was like that with me. I don't know why it has to be like her or me, but I feel like that sometimes.

• 2:31Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha. Okay. So first off, we're never going to say, I hate myself for X, Y, Z again, right? I know you're playing, but we're going to take that out of our lexicon. Okay.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:40Dr. John Delony?

  So.

• 2:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, I think you've set up a false dynamic of her or me instead of her and me. What I wonder is, so you see your husband being this way with her.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:56Dr. John Delony?

  Silly, goofy.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:59Dr. John Delony?

  Like free wrestling, fun poking, all the stuff. How old's your daughter?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's 14.

• 3:05Dr. John Delony?

  14, okay. And you also see your daughter eating this up. Tell me about that.

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Well, they're, oh, I didn't think I'd get emotional so early. They're just, you know, my husband's a great guy and I didn't have the kind of relationship that I see them have.

• 3:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, there we go.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  So, um, I just, I love it so much for them, which is why I'm annoyed at myself because of it.

• 3:35Dr. John Delony?

  So when you.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Cause their births are great.

• 3:37Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and so instead of being annoyed by it, and again, I'm saying things that are ridiculous, right? So like, like I feel depressed, well, just be happier, right? I get like, just stop being annoyed. That's not what I mean, but underneath the annoyance, if you, if you were to be curious about the annoyance, like, why does my body respond to an obviously beautiful thing?

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:02Dr. John Delony?

  Like, and not be pissed off at it or not hate yourself for it, but I'll be curious about it. Like, what is it about this interaction that sets my body off? Would, if you were curious from it, about it, would it be the annoyance stems from grief? I should have had that with my dad and I didn't? Or is it from, I don't have a better word to use here off the, off the cuff, but is it shame in that I don't allow that kind of relationship with my husband? I'm guarded. I'm not silly. I don't poke at him and when he does poke me back, I take offense to it, right? What about like when you did get beneath the annoyance, what's your body trying to,

• 4:47Dr. John Delony?

  what's your body bringing up? Or maybe it's both of those things.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Um, no, I, I think it's that, like, I feel like I missed him. Like, cause when he, he's been working so much lately because we've had a lot of unexpected medical expenses this year. So like when he's home, I, I like crave his attention.

• 5:07Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  And I know that he do too. Like I know they need it too. And I know that he's doing what he has to do, but I feel like, like I just, I just miss him, I guess.

• 5:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:23Dr. John Delony?

  What is, what is, what is, so you miss him and that's a real feeling. And also the more you talk about this guy, the more amazing he sounds.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:33Dr. John Delony?

  Like relationally. What is it?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:38Dr. John Delony?

  What, what is it about you that you don't feel like you come first?

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Um.

• 5:45Dr. John Delony?

  And what I mean by that is your 14 year old is reckless in her pursuit of him.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:51Dr. John Delony?

  Your 14 year old has no built in, um, I don't know, he's probably tired. He, she's coming full force on all of you.

• 6:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:01Dr. John Delony?

  What is it about the dynamic in your marriage? What is it about the dynamic that you've built around yourself? Maybe it's with him that when he walks in that door, you are not full force.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  I just don't want to, so he works in law enforcement and, um, so he's like, when he's at work, he is 100% all the time for other people.

• 6:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  So I don't want to add, like, I don't want, I want him to come home and you're always saying like, how do you want home to feel for him? Like, that's what I think. I want him to feel like this is a place where he can like, um, unplug and like, to like just be, so I don't want to be.

• 6:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but do you really, do you hear what you just said?

• 6:46Speaker 00

  Maybe.

• 6:47Dr. John Delony?

  What, this is big, okay? I want you to hold this cause it's going to be heavy to hold.

• 6:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:57Dr. John Delony?

  You want your home to be a place of peace. You want him, this guy who spends his whole life serving other people constantly in a dangerous situation. And I grew up in the home of a policeman. I grew up, my mom begged me to not go into law enforcement because she said, every time your dad leaves, I hold my breath.

• 7:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. And especially now, everybody hates the police.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. Exactly. And so now you're going into a place to serve and to care and to keep order and to love people well, and they hate you for it. Or at least, at least the media says they hate you for it.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 7:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right, right?

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:33Dr. John Delony?

  Um, in reality, people are so grateful, but like there are people that hate you for it, right?

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:39Dr. John Delony?

  But the story you've told yourself, and it may be a real story, it may be a dynamic that's emerged in your marriage, or it may just be you. You have told yourself the story that the most peaceful thing for my husband is for me to disappear when he walks in the door. Cause I'm a burden.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 8:01Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a lie. It's not true.

• 8:06Dr. John Delony?

  Cause as a guy that ran with police officers all day, who spent all day of my life, I wasn't getting shot at, I didn't have to wear a bulletproof vest, but who spent all day, every day in the mess of other people.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:18Dr. John Delony?

  The thing that I crave the most was not my wife's absence, not her becoming a ghost in her own house, but her becoming the warmest, safest place I could land.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:33Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:36Dr. John Delony?

  So what is it about you being warmth? What about, about you, what is it that when you look in the mirror, you feel like I'm not something to be plugged into? I'm not warm, I'm not safe.

• 8:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'm a burden to this guy.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Um.

• 8:53Dr. John Delony?

  Cause your 14 year old doesn't have any of that baggage. She runs full force. And if you see that interaction, it gives him life.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, it does.

• 9:03Dr. John Delony?

  So what is it about you that you don't believe you give him life?

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Um, I, um, so growing up, um, my family dynamics were weird and I was a lot. My parents were very, um, my mom was an ER nurse and so like they're very, I love her, she's my mom, but she's very cold and calculated and logical.

• 9:30Dr. John Delony?

  Don't, don't defend her on the show, just tell the truth. Okay.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. She's just a very cold, um, person and I was always a lot for her. Like she would be like, go be you somewhere else.

• 9:44Dr. John Delony?

  Stop right there. Stop right there.

• 9:47Dr. John Delony?

  That right there is trauma.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  But I just.

• 9:55Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, just, just sit in it. Don't try to solve it, just sit in it.

• 10:02Dr. John Delony?

  You can't be you around me.

• 10:06Dr. John Delony?

  There is a limit to our relationship and you just crossed it. You, the child.

• 10:15Dr. John Delony?

  That disconnects you from yourself. That's the definition of trauma.

• 10:20Dr. John Delony?

  And forces you into a different way of loving so that the adult in the room will accept you. I hate that happened to you.

• 10:35Dr. John Delony?

  I hate it. Because you're watching a 14-year-old get what should happen, which is her full too much self being met fully with the masculine energy of a good man. Right?

• 10:53Dr. John Delony?

  And that story took root years ago that I'm too much and that I'm a lot.

• 11:00Dr. John Delony?

  And if I want to be loved, if I want to really love somebody else well, that means diminishing myself.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  Just staying out of the way.

• 11:08Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And then you got a guy coming home who's been everything to everybody and all he probably really wants is full you.

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  And you see how you get in this figure eight dance, you kind of withhold and he kind of chases, which makes you withhold more or want to disappear even more. Withholding is a bad word. You want to get more like a ghost. And then he exhales and he's a man of duty and a man of honor. So he starts going other places.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:46Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I, for whatever it's worth, you're worth turning the music up way too loud and you're worth dancing when that man walks in the door.

• 11:56Dr. John Delony?

  And you're worth kissing him all over and you're worth boxing out that 14-year-old and you're like, huh, uh, I get him first.

• 12:05Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're thinking about, oh yeah, at four o'clock, then when he walks in the door at five, everybody's boxed out and we're locking the door for a minute.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:17Dr. John Delony?

  Or if you just need a hug from him. After he's spent a day serving and you want to rest in him, there's nothing better than being exhausted, but actually getting to serve the one person I care the most about.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  I just don't know how to change what I feel like change logically, it makes sense, but I don't know how to change how I feel like.

• 12:41Dr. John Delony?

  I have a, I have a callous word for it.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:45Dr. John Delony?

  It's practice.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:47Dr. John Delony?

  It is doing the thing that in your guts you want to do and punching through that mask you've been wearing for 20 or 30 years.

• 13:02Dr. John Delony?

  And then having him be honest and you be honest and practice. You coming to him and saying, I'm watching this happen and I was her.

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm falling in love more with you every day, watching how you receive all of our too much 14-year-old girl and I'm jealous because I was that girl and my mom shut me down.

• 13:28Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm still that girl.

• 13:31Dr. John Delony?

  And I want her to come back and it's just going to take some practice and then take some electricity. It's going to take me feeling so exposed and awkward when I'm dancing around the kitchen that I'm going to want to run and hide in the bedroom for a minute to recalibrate. That's okay.

• 13:47Dr. John Delony?

  But I want, I want to be your safe place. I don't want to be your invisible place.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  I really do.

• 13:56Dr. John Delony?

  I, I know, I know. And I, I, I almost speak for him, but I almost guarantee you, he wants that more than anything on the planet. He didn't even, probably didn't have the words for it.

• 14:18Dr. John Delony?

  I think this is a pretty awesome day for you.

• 14:23Dr. John Delony?

  It's going to take some writing, some journaling. Letting that little girl come to the forefront.

• 14:31Dr. John Delony?

  Asking yourself, what do you want your house to feel like? And what role you can play and how your house feels. You sitting down with your husband and being honest.

• 14:42Dr. John Delony?

  I'm watching the way it should have been. And now I'm planning for how it's gonna be.

• 14:50Dr. John Delony?

  And giving him permission to say, hey, today was a really rough one.

• 14:55Dr. John Delony?

  Can we just hug instead of dance? And you being able to, because you're an adult, you're not 14, you can't like, yeah. And not go into a shame spiral and I knew it, I'm too much and all, but yeah, I can, I can, I can, I can switch up here.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:08Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 15:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:15Dr. John Delony?

  Today's Independence Day for Emma.

• 15:21Dr. John Delony?

  And it's just going to take some practice.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:25Dr. John Delony?

  And it might look like putting dancing on the calendar. It might look like putting sexual rendezvous on the calendar. It might look like putting couch time on the calendar. We're going to practice this thing.

• 15:36Dr. John Delony?

  Until it be, until 14-year-old me is free again.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  I can do that.

• 15:44Dr. John Delony?

  Might be you signing up for dance classes or yoga classes or an art class or a music, like whatever used to set you on fire. We're, we're, we're, we're opening the old boxes that we've stored in the back of the garage.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:58Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 16:03Speaker 00

  I can do that.

• 16:05Dr. John Delony?

  How about this? Not I can do that as yet another thing that you're doing wrong.

• 16:12Dr. John Delony?

  But I get to do that.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:16Dr. John Delony?

  You only get one lap around this track called life. I'd hate for you to cross the finish line and say, I, I kept most of the, the fun parts of me in a box in the back of the garage.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would too. And I don't want the example for my kids either.

• 16:32Dr. John Delony?

  That's there you go. The greatest gift you can give that 14-year-old girl is watching her mom be head over heels for a good man.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:41Dr. John Delony?

  And to not feel like I have to be reserved in my own house because it's my freaking house too.

• 16:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And you, you think you're a lot, you wait till your mama gets going.

• 16:54Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And I know like there's chores and dinner and food and you got a job. Like I know all that's real, reality. I said, I'm not, you know, you're not going to be a 14-year-old. But we're not going to live a hemmed in life with our ride or die. We're not going to live a hemmed in life when it comes to, I love you so much, I got to put a lid on it. No way.

• 17:16Dr. John Delony?

  I want my house to feel a place of peace and laughter and warmth.

• 17:21Dr. John Delony?

  But I'm an oven and I get too hot, so I'm just going to unplug myself. No way, dude. We're going, we're going to, we're going to go right through the middle of that tension. We're going to figure that one out.

• 17:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so proud of you, dude. Today's day one on a brand new day. Do me a huge favor. I want you to have a conversation with your husband, like a, like a deep one, a good one. And y'all co, co-imagined this together. And then in 30 days, I want you to call me back and let me know what's the state of things.

• 17:50Dr. John Delony?

  Today's day one, game on. Thank you so much for honoring us with a call. All right, we come back, a man asks how to build a relationship with his father-in-law who's openly disliked him for years. So we'll be right back.

• 18:05Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:48Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:30Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:15Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:50Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Denver, Colorado. Let's talk to Andrew. Hey, Andrew, what's up, man?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. Doolery. How are you doing today?

• 20:57Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, brother. How are you?

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Uh, hanging in there.

• 21:01Dr. John Delony?

  Hanging in there.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Another long day at the Long Day Factory.

• 21:04Dr. John Delony?

  It's the morning, man. We haven't even started the Long Day Factory yet. What's going on?

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Um, so I'm wondering if there's any way to improve my relationship with my new father-in-law after he openly dislikes me and has disrespected me for years.

• 21:23Dr. John Delony?

  Without even you telling me what's going on, the answer's probably no.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, I can give you examples on what he has said to me that kind of just sticks in my brain, but, um...

• 21:36Dr. John Delony?

  Before, you've ruminated on this. You've thought about it. You've had imaginary conversations with him over and over, right?

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I pre, like, whenever I have to interact with him, I think about how, like, pre-planning conversations and...

• 21:51Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  Obviously, they never go the way that I ruminate.

• 21:54Dr. John Delony?

  Never.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Because usually, I just sit there silently.

• 21:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, never. So here's what I think would be more instructive for me, in terms of gathering information. What's your wife say about it all?

• 22:07Speaker 02

  My wife doesn't have anything to say about it. She's just like, that's the way he's been.

• 22:12Dr. John Delony?

  And that, hold on, stop. That's the problem.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:15Dr. John Delony?

  That's why you're calling. Because if your father-in-law sucked, if he was a prick, a jerk, he didn't like you...

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:22Dr. John Delony?

  But your wife was on your team fully, he would just be a guy that doesn't like you.

• 22:31Dr. John Delony?

  But the real issue here is your wife dismisses what happens to you.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Okay, that, we did bring this up during our, like, couples coun, or like, pre-marriage counseling, and that, our counselor never brought that up to me.

• 22:46Dr. John Delony?

  Does that track with you?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  It makes sense now that you say it out loud, because that point has never crossed my mind, because...

• 22:54Dr. John Delony?

  And she keeps bringing you into situations, we're gonna go to this dinner, we're gonna go to this holiday thing, we're gonna go to this thing, where she knows you're gonna get belittled and dismissed and disrespected, and her excuse is, well, that's just the way he is. Instead of saying, I'm not letting anybody talk to my husband like that, much less, like, my dad, and so, no, we're not going. See what I'm saying? See the difference there?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  I, yeah, that actually opens up, that's like opening up the curtains. Yeah, I see the, there's a definite difference. I thought my problem was with him, not with...

• 23:30Dr. John Delony?

  No, because he's just a guy. And yes, all of us want to have a great relationship with our in-laws because we have, we want to, like, get new aging adults in our life, which is always awesome if they're great. We want our kids to have great grandparents. We have these dreams of the holiday trips and the cruises and the hunting and the fishing together, like, whatever the thing is, right?

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:55Dr. John Delony?

  And so, there is a grief to a father-in-law who's disrespectful and whatever.

• 24:03Dr. John Delony?

  But the challenge you have before you is, actually, the problem is with your partner, with your wife. And if you're honest, here's the, here's the thing I want to prepare you for. When you head down this, this trail, you're gonna start to see it in other places, too. I'd be willing to bet. Not every, not every time.

• 24:22Dr. John Delony?

  But you're gonna find other places where she kind of just does it, because that's just the way things are. Maybe with your finances, maybe when it comes to sex and intimacy, maybe when it comes to purchasing decisions. Am I right, or am I off-base? Call me out if I'm off-base.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  No, I, um, I feel like you're on the right track. Like, there's some things that, it's always been that way, and it's just kept doing it that way. There's, okay, that, I think you're on the right track.

• 24:54Dr. John Delony?

  So let me ask you the hardest question of all. When you look in the mirror, are you a man that you respect?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I think so. I believe so. I mean, I just try to, I believe so. I mean, I have no reason to think, I just, I don't know, I believe so. I have no reason to not respect myself, I don't think.

• 25:16Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's often not a logical or a cognitive response. It's a gut response.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  I mean, I look at my physical self and I pick it apart, but as a person, I feel like I very much respect myself.

• 25:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, you speak up for yourself? You tell the truth?

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Uh, absolutely, yes. I pride myself on that.

• 25:38Dr. John Delony?

  Do you keep your promises to yourself?

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:41Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Are you, do you keep your promises to your wife about, here's who we're gonna be? You hold up your end of the bargain?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  So far, yes. I mean, we've been married for roughly, um, two months or so. So far, I feel like I'm doing, so far, I feel like I'm doing okay, pretty good.

• 26:00Dr. John Delony?

  All right.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  I don't have to ask her about that, but, you know.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. I, it may be worth a conversation. Um, I heard Alex Hermosy say this recently to our mutual buddy, Chris Williamson, and it, it stuck with me. And again, you could pull it apart with social psychology, and it sounds pop, internet-y, whatever, but it resonated with me.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:24Dr. John Delony?

  For a married man or a man in a committed, uh, relationship, romantic relationship, their capacity is limited by their partner's belief in them.

• 26:37Dr. John Delony?

  I married a woman who thinks I could take on the world.

• 26:44Dr. John Delony?

  She doesn't always like how I take on the world, and she doesn't like how I burn myself out at both ends trying to take on the world, but my wife believes, like, that's why my wife has never, she's never wanted to, like, play the game, like, who's on your hall pass list, whatever?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:00Dr. John Delony?

  Because she's like, you'll, it'll happen to you. That's her innate belief system. My husband can just about do anything. And what that's done for me over the years is allowed me to believe I can do anything.

• 27:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I also have people close to me whose wives roll their eyes. My husband's, bleh, he never, he always, he can't, I have to. And, and sometimes what they say is true, but it becomes a, it comes, it becomes a self-reinforcing fable, right?

• 27:35Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so, my question for you is, when you sit down across the table from your brand-new wife, do you get the sense in your chest, this woman believes in me?

• 27:46Dr. John Delony?

  Or this woman is managing me?

• 27:50Speaker 02

  I never thought about that, actually. Every time, I have never even thought about it, if this woman, if she believes in me.

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  Ask her.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  And I know that's bad.

• 27:58Dr. John Delony?

  Ask her.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  Okay, I will ask her. Um...

• 28:03Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, my wife doesn't think I could go play in the NBA, because that's insane, because I'm terrible.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  There's realistic, there's realistic things in there, yeah.

• 28:11Dr. John Delony?

  But she believes if I need, wanted to figure out how to work in the NBA and move my way up to the upper echelon, like, that guy'd figure that out. She believes that.

• 28:20Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So, like, there's, it's not irrational, right? I'm not saying something great, like, she doesn't believe I'm gonna go colonize Mars, but I've got a wife that believes if my husband puts his head down on something, he's gonna, he's gonna, it's gonna happen, so I gotta start planning for it.

• 28:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I want you to, all of this is in service to the question, is your wife on your team, or is she on her dad's team?

• 28:46Dr. John Delony?

  Is her allegiance to the world y'all are building together? Or is her allegiance to the life she used to have, that now she's just trying to figure out where you fit in that puzzle?

• 28:58Speaker 02

  And the odd thing is, she also has problems with her own father-in-law, or not her own father-in-law, I'm sorry, her father. So sometimes she'll complain about her dad, and that makes me think, okay, we're on the same page, but her actions show, by her not standing up for me, that she is on his team. Her actions show that, is what I'm hearing from you. Is that correct?

• 29:20Dr. John Delony?

  I'm asking you if that's, if that's the dynamic in your house.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  That's, I guess her actions, actions show it, right?

• 29:29Dr. John Delony?

  Because, because, I mean, it can be more nuanced than that, all right? So I, like, I don't want everything to be a nail, so I'm running around as a hammer trying to smash everything. Like, I, I, it could be that she identifies with her mom, who's an exhausted, like, weathered woman because this man is oppressive. And she knows, if I can just, if I can do look over here, he'll leave mom alone, and he'll keep his, like, so there could be a million different dynamics. It could be, like you said, that's what she knows. She doesn't know a different, a different kind of man that loves her for who she is and gives her equal voice at the table, et cetera, et cetera.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Okay. I never even thought about, I always thought my problem was with him. Wow. That kind of opened my eyes to a whole lot of things.

• 30:26Dr. John Delony?

  But recognize this is a way harder conversation.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That's.

• 30:33Dr. John Delony?

  So here's, I'm gonna give you a path into the conversation. You ready?

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Please, yes.

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  I talked to this goofball podcaster today.

• 30:44Dr. John Delony?

  Can we have a big conversation about some things he, he dropped on me?

• 30:49Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 30:51Dr. John Delony?

  Can we put both of our phones away and just like have some directed conversation? Sure. After thinking about this all day, this, you know, I've got a problem with how your dad talks to me, how he treats me. The story I'm making up is,

• 31:08Dr. John Delony?

  you don't come to my defense. The story I'm making up is maybe you're on his team more than you're on my team.

• 31:17Dr. John Delony?

  The story I'm making up is the wife I really want, I want a wife that is ride or die with me, not with her dad first and then me.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  And that makes me feel apprehensive. That makes me feel scared. That makes me feel small. That makes me feel like we're always gonna have three people at our kitchen table whenever we're having dinner. Me and you and your dad. We just need to make him a plate too, because he's a part of our house buying decisions and job decisions and moving decisions and kid decisions.

• 31:51Dr. John Delony?

  What I would love is you and me to decide what's best for both of us. And if anyone's gonna disrespect us, we're gonna, we're gonna be fighting for who's in front, who's gonna take the first, the first, the first shrapnel. You know what I'm saying? But it starts with, here's the stories I'm making up. If you sit down and just start lobbing accusations against her.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:11Dr. John Delony?

  That's a way to get further apart.

• 32:17Speaker 02

  Okay. That, that is a good way to get into that conversation. I didn't even think about, wow, okay. And we are, we're still continuing our couples counseling. Would you recommend doing this like tonight? Or with our couples counselor? So we have a mediator in there. So in case emotions get flared.

• 32:37Dr. John Delony?

  Well, A, emotions 100% will get flared.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:41Dr. John Delony?

  Um, B, I like the idea of y'all practicing this conversation together. And then if it opens a can of worms, then, then you take that conversation to the therapist and you sit down and say, here's a conversation I had. Here's some revelations. Here's some things I was wondering about. And less the dynamic of, I mean, less the actual conversation itself,

• 33:07Dr. John Delony?

  but the dynamic opened up this whole other arena.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 33:13Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Like, so I, I sat down with my wife, my new wife and said, hey, here's a big thing that's sitting in the middle of my chest. And here's a story I'm making up. And now she hasn't talked to me in three days.

• 33:25Dr. John Delony?

  Or the first thing she did was she grabbed her phone and called her mom, which is the exact issue we were bringing up.

• 33:32Dr. John Delony?

  Or she came back and said, oh yeah, well, you never, and lobbed a bunch of grenades back over the wall at me. Or she put her hands in her face and sobbed and said, you're exactly right. I don't, I don't know how to break the, break it. I don't want to disappoint my dad. I've always disappointed him. He's always said I was not enough.

• 33:51Dr. John Delony?

  I hate the way he talks to you, right? So that, that, those responses become great conversations for, here's how we create a model for having hard conversations in our particular marriage.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Okay, that.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  I'm nervous to have that conversation. I won't lie. I'm sitting here, I'm sitting here sweaty palms, like thinking about having it already.

• 34:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so start the conversation with, I'm nervous to have this conversation.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:22Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I'm, cause I'm a guy I respect. And because I respect myself, I tell the truth. And the truth right now is I'm real nervous.

• 34:34Dr. John Delony?

  It's like the first time I was gonna talk in front of 5,000 people, my son was with me. His eyes were as big as saucers and he kept looking up to me. And I could tell he was looking up to me as I was some kind of,

• 34:45Dr. John Delony?

  I was different than him. And I wasn't. And I said, hey, let me see your hand, his little bitty hand. And I took it and I opened, I unbuttoned my dress shirt and I put it in on my chest. And he could feel my heart beating out of my chest. And we made eye contact and I said, I'm so nervous right now. I think my heart's gonna jump out of my chest. And I watched his shoulders just drop.

• 35:11Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:13Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I'm gonna try to be a man I respect. I'm gonna tell the truth. Have I prepared for this speech? Yep. Am I super, super nervous? Yep. Both are true. I'm not scared to say that out loud.

• 35:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so lead with that, lead with that. I'm nervous to have this conversation. I'm nervous to cause a big fight here. Cause I don't wanna fight at all, but I'm also nervous to keep my mouth shut two months in.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And wow, I never even, okay.

• 35:46Dr. John Delony?

  Game on?

• 35:47Speaker 02

  That's game on. I guess, I guess I'll have that conversation tonight with my sweaty palms.

• 35:52Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. Sure, sure. Hey, my palms are sweaty. Right? But, but, but again, then, yeah, we're just gonna be as honest as we can and as open and vulnerable as we can and as curious as we can.

• 36:07Dr. John Delony?

  And yeah, it's gonna be a hard conversation for sure. Two months in, 100%.

• 36:12Dr. John Delony?

  Hurt. And think about it, flip it around. The guy's appro, the first man's approval she wants more than anybody in the world is her dad's. And he's not approving of the one lifelong decision, forever, forever decision, the first one she's ever made. You. That's a tough place for her to find herself. But she made the decision. And now her dad gets to be an adult and say, I'm gonna trust my adult daughter who I raised, that she married a good man and I like to whatever, and he likes whatever.

• 36:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not gonna be that guy that belittles him, that makes fun of him, that badgers him. I'm gonna invite him out. I'm gonna do whatever.

• 36:53Dr. John Delony?

  But then he gets to be a grown up or he gets to opt out of a relationship, which I hope to God he doesn't do. Thanks for the call, brother. And if this conversation goes sideways, or if it's great, and you and your wife wanna call back on the show, we'll get you back on as a follow-up. Thanks for the call, brother. We come back, a woman asks how to navigate conflicting beliefs about birth control with her husband. We'll be right back.

• 37:15Dr. John Delony?

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• 37:59Dr. John Delony?

  who can tell you what it means and walk you through it and give you an actual plan to start living better. Joy and Blokes pairs you with a clinician who reviews your results, helps you create a personalized plan, and helps you take action. Whether the answer is a few lifestyle changes or a supplement tweak here or there, or a much more comprehensive treatment plan, everything can be prescribed and managed through Joy and Blokes. Joy and Blokes is for men and women who want to be proactive with their health and get to the root of their health challenges. Go to joyandblokes.com/deloney and get 50% off labs and 20% off all products. That's J O I and B L O K E S dot com slash Deloney.

• 38:46Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Let's go out to San Diego, California, one of the most beautiful places in the world and talk to Nancy. Hey Nancy, what's up?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call.

• 38:57Dr. John Delony?

  You got it.

• 38:57Speaker 03

  I'm a little nervous, but how are you?

• 38:59Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  I prepared a short statement.

• 39:03Dr. John Delony?

  Thank you for calling, even though you're nervous.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Thanks for taking my call.

• 39:07Dr. John Delony?

  So what's up?

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Um, I did prepare a statement so that I don't fumble over my words.

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Because we're in court, I've prepared a statement.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Right?

• 39:15Dr. John Delony?

  All right, uh, read it. Read it, hold on, read it in the least reedy way.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh. Let's see, um, in Espanol?

• 39:27Dr. John Delony?

  See, see. No, uh, read it, read it in a, in a very conversational way.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  Okay, absolutely. Uh, so my husband and I have been married for 11 years. We have three kids together. Um, we're married in the Catholic Church and I actually converted from an evangelical background. I did fall away for a while before I met my husband for my faith, but then I came back, um, and we got married in the Catholic Church. So I had to convert to Catholicism. He's been cradled to probably the grave Catholic raised and he does not believe in any type of birth control. Um, I have started using it, uh, birth control for health reasons recently and to reduce symptoms of PCOS and other health reasons.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  But how do I find the peace of myself and our marriage if we're not on the same page about this big issue?

• 40:24Dr. John Delony?

  You can't look for peace as resolution of this issue. Peace has to come elsewhere. On who we're gonna be despite this, what I would call a perpetual, as the Gottmans call it, it's a perpetual problem. This will never go away.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  I know.

• 40:38Dr. John Delony?

  And so, uh, I, I think the number that it's 68 or 69% of marital conflict is perpetual. It will never not be there.

• 40:48Dr. John Delony?

  He's always gonna wanna stay up late while you wanna go to bed early. He's always gonna wanna have sex in the evenings and you wanna have it in the morning. He's always got like,

• 40:56Dr. John Delony?

  think about it, seven out of 10 problems in your marriage are gonna be kinda always. So trying to solve the problem in terms of who's like a win or a loss, who's right or who's wrong, is a recipe to burn your marriage to the ground.

• 41:11Dr. John Delony?

  The real question is gonna be, how do we communicate our differences, especially on something as deeply seated or that's anchored to a faith practice as birth control or no birth control?

• 41:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, and we recently went to couples therapy, um, for five, about five sessions or less. It didn't help. Uh, I feel like he just dug his heels into the ground, which is interesting because it was a, a random, um, we actually found a Catholic couples therapist and sweet lady and she was able to kind of confirm with him like my view, but he didn't seem to wanna acknowledge it. Um, I've gone to our priest, um, and talked to him about it. Uh, he did give me kind of a, not a warning, but if this is gonna cause big issues in my marriage, the priest actually told me, wait until you feel comfortable opening up

• 42:11Speaker 03

  to your husband about this. But I was so excited to feel, and that's another layer of it, is the idea of salvation. I was so excited that I felt like, oh, I'm forgiven. I'm allowed to be on birth control for health reasons. I can tell my husband. I was super excited to tell him and he's like, no, absolutely not. This is still a sin and it can cause, you know, we can lose our salvation. And it makes me sad that he believes that. I don't agree with that viewpoint.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  Well, there, there's multiple viewpoints here. Viewpoint number one is if I do this thing, I go to hell.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:47Dr. John Delony?

  If he looks in the mirror and truly deeply believes that,

• 42:53Dr. John Delony?

  um, like, that's, that's, then trying to talk him out of that is trying to talk you out of not pushing your child out of the way if a truck is flying down the street.

• 43:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right? He's trying to shove you out of the way of a vehicle moving down the road in your direction. If he truly believes, if you take this pill to keep your body from, like, like, causing you such pain that you are immobile.

• 43:28Dr. John Delony?

  Right? If he believes that, then that conversation is a futile conversation because everybody's gonna try to push their loved one out of the way of a truck flying down the road. Everyone. I'll push strangers out of the way, right?

• 43:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:41Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing here is,

• 43:44Dr. John Delony?

  is a, what I would call, moving that question over to the side, because that, that will be what I would call a values, that's not just a perpetual problem, that is a, we're at a crossroads here.

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. I was, I was prepared for that when I told him, but I honestly didn't expect him to dig his heels deeper after consulting with priests.

• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  Which, which makes me wonder if it's not about that. It's about control.

• 44:17Dr. John Delony?

  Your body's mine. I don't care how much pain you're in. I don't care how uncomfortable you are. I don't care, I don't care any of that stuff. It's mine.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  And that's where sometimes these teachings get really dangerous. They get really abusive and they get really wrong-headed.

• 44:39Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 44:42Dr. John Delony?

  Now, I, I, hopefully I just painted you two barbells, meaning like opposite ends. You got one guy who is trying with every fiber of his being to love you and keep you out of what he believes is eternal damnation. Right? The other side is a possessive, abusive man that doesn't care how much you hurt, doesn't care what medical doctors say, don't care what his faith leaders say. Your body's mine and you will do with it what I say.

• 45:18Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 45:21Dr. John Delony?

  One of those can be addressed with compassion and I don't share your same belief and I get the angst you have. And I want you to know that at the end of the day, I believe in this particular faith and I believe I'm gonna stand in judgment and I believe I can weather that judgment, given all the other things.

• 45:41Dr. John Delony?

  And so I appreciate you wanting to shove me out of the way of this truck, but I don't think this truck's gonna actually hit me. So please don't push me. Right? That's one conversation. The other is, I'm not gonna be in a relationship with you because you're abusing one of the most sacred responsibilities, which is a husband to his wife, and you've turned it into an ownership conversation.

• 46:02Dr. John Delony?

  And that's pathological.

• 46:06Dr. John Delony?

  Here, here's a few like litmus tests, okay? Um,

• 46:13Dr. John Delony?

  do you get a say in the family finances?

• 46:17Speaker 03

  We, we were doing well.

• 46:19Dr. John Delony?

  That's not what I asked. You're about to, you're about to give me a kind of a, all right, do you get a say?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Yes and no.

• 46:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. More no than yes?

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, did you name your kids? Did y'all name your kids or did he name your kids?

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Oh, no, we, we did it together.

• 46:40Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, what other places are you living in his world?

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Um, I would say with in-laws, there's a lot of conflict and then with parenting styles.

• 46:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So the bigger issue is, is y'all have, I, I, I, I'm wondering, again, he's not on the phone and I'd love to sit down and talk to him.

• 47:07Dr. John Delony?

  The, the bigger question I would have here is, is this a, are we talking about a salvation conversation here? Or are we talking about a guy who wants his way, the way, any way he wants it? I'm not, I'm not having any man, whether a doctor, a priest, I don't care who it is, no one's telling my wife what she can do with her body. It's my job. And I got real problems with men like that.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  I think where I, I've seen like both sides of him, like he, and it's like on the spectrum where I do see like the, his, his deep belief in God and his, you know, Catholic faith, but then there's that more overprotective side where he sees things well and he, he has a really hard time seeing other people's perspective. And that comes out in his workplace, at home with us. Um, what was really the most upsetting of it all was, I mean, besides having a difficult conversation and him not seeing my point of view, but him bringing up the possibility that he could seek an annulment through the Catholic Church, so

• 48:12Speaker 03

  divorce, if I don't go off of birth control.

• 48:17Dr. John Delony?

  And this was- Hold on, I, I want you to stop using the word birth control. I want you to, I want you to name it what it is. I'm gonna seek an annulment if you don't do what I say with your body.

• 48:37Dr. John Delony?

  Because birth control has become the miniature little proxy war. That's not the issue here.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:46Dr. John Delony?

  Because now he's threatening the integrity of your relationship. He's threatening your safety. He's threatening your time with your kids. He's threatening you financially.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:54Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 48:58Speaker 03

  He hasn't proceeded in that direction. I think he just said that out of anger.

• 49:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, you don't threaten, don't threaten relational breaks out of anger.

• 49:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:14Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, people do all the time.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was hard to hear.

• 49:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  And I was, I was fearful that it was really going to go in that direction.

• 49:24Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Because if nothing else, that's like what I, I really value, like the sanctity of marriage and being together to become one.

• 49:36Dr. John Delony?

  But you're not, two aren't becoming one here over time. You are becoming his.

• 49:47Dr. John Delony?

  You get the difference there?

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:51Dr. John Delony?

  And if you were becoming his and he was becoming yours,

• 49:56Dr. John Delony?

  it's, we're playing semantics, but that would be two becoming one.

• 50:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:03Dr. John Delony?

  The challenge for you ahead of you is you've gone to sit down with a marriage counselor. You've gone to sit down with a spiritual advisor.

• 50:10Dr. John Delony?

  They've both looked at him either directly or indirectly and said, your wife's right here.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:18Dr. John Delony?

  And he said, I don't care.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  And then how do I find peace in that? Because I'm digging my heels in.

• 50:29Dr. John Delony?

  There's no peace to be had there.

• 50:35Dr. John Delony?

  There's capitulation. You're an adult, so I'm not going to say what to do. You can look at the totality of the situation and say, okay, I'm going to choose this or I'm going to go sit down with my OB-GYN and see if there's another thing I can do

• 50:49Dr. John Delony?

  for the stabbing pain I deal with on a regular basis. Is there another avenue here that's not this? Like you can, you can capitulate. You can say, okay, your way.

• 51:02Dr. John Delony?

  You can do that. And that's the life you want? Like, I want to be with my kids? You get to choose that. You're an adult in America in 21st century. Or you can say,

• 51:13Dr. John Delony?

  here's what I want. Here's what I need.

• 51:18Dr. John Delony?

  And my biggest concerns with these conversations are you're taking into no account of your wife. I'm your wife.

• 51:31Dr. John Delony?

  My well-being, my heart, my body.

• 51:38Speaker 03

  I think that's the biggest thing for me is like making sure that I have, and without going into details, I've always wanted to feel more ownership over my own body. And this is very important to me.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  And after, you know, having five pregnancies, losing two of them, three kids here on this side of earth, you know, of heaven. I feel like my family is complete. So it's, it's a mixture of, yes, this is for my health, but also the side effect of not having more children. I feel like it's the right fit for our family to take care of my physical health, my mental health, everything.

• 52:21Dr. John Delony?

  And however you believe on that issue, I'm, I support whatever, whatever you put in front of me. I'm going to say, I'm like, thank you for sharing that. But the, the challenge before you is not that you've landed here. It's, it's that your spouse doesn't care where you land because you don't get a vote.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:48Dr. John Delony?

  And that's agency. That's autonomy at its deeper level. It's not about him saying, well, I want two more kids and we're going to have to negotiate this out. This is hard.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  He says he doesn't really even want more kids. And that's the confusing part, why he cares so much.

• 53:05Dr. John Delony?

  Because you keep focusing on the birth control and that's not the issue. The real issue is control, control. It's you control, not birth control.

• 53:20Dr. John Delony?

  You hear what I'm saying? And I, dude, I, I, I in no way, shape, form or fashion have any sort of, I, I couldn't even begin to wonder why he would choose what he's choosing.

• 53:34Dr. John Delony?

  Who knows? Who knows?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  I feel like this is a more common issue than not in the Catholic community. And I see a lot of families. I have friends who are a lot of time, my kids are in Catholic school. We go to church every Sunday. But I feel like it's not talked about enough and it makes me feel like I'm crazy. Like people are, and, but then I look around and I'm one of the women with three kids. Most people have two or less. So I'm like, is this, is this just something that's unspoken? What is happening here?

• 54:07Dr. John Delony?

  There's a ton unspoken in all faith practices.

• 54:13Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's one of my goals of this show is to have open conversations with people of all different beliefs and faith practices.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:22Dr. John Delony?

  And we're going to say the hard truths and we're also going to call out nonsense.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of beautiful things about the Catholic faith.

• 54:30Dr. John Delony?

  Of course there is. There's amazing things.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'm not Catholic and I see it.

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Yes, the traditions that.

• 54:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So I, I, here's the thing. I can't speak on the Catholic Church broadly. A, I'm not in that community. I, I don't want to speak about somebody else's family, right? I will speak about abusive behavior and I will speak about, um, uh, controlling behavior. And I will speak about how to navigate like unsolvable problems and how to navigate abusive problems in front of you. Like it, it can be, it can cloud your, what do I do next? What's my next right step? When it becomes, well, what about the whole church as a whole? And what about all this unspoken silence? And what about all of this? What that can lead you to do is read a whole bunch of blogs and listen to a whole bunch of podcasts and have a million cups of coffee with a million different people,

• 55:22Dr. John Delony?

  but never take action steps to solve the problem in your life as we are right now. And so what I want to do is all those things are real. All those things are big. All those things are, are even worth exploring. But for you right now, the question you have to ask is, what am I going to do next?

• 55:41Dr. John Delony?

  And I, I don't see a path out without a couple of men in his life that you trust to sit down and have a bigger conversation without you writing some things down and saying, here is what I believe to be true. Here's what I'm afraid of. Here's what I'm scared of. Here's the world I'm experiencing. Do you love me enough to have this conversation? Do you care about me and the mother of your kids enough to have, to hear me say?

• 56:11Dr. John Delony?

  Or he can say no. And then you're going to have to decide what, and I'm, I'm not, I can't give you that pass. I can tell you what I would do. I can tell you what I would recommend to my close friends and family, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to give you the pass. You have to decide for yourself and for your family, what's the best, next right move for me? And you've gotten therapeutic wisdom. You've gotten spiritual wisdom. If you have some girlfriends in your life, you can sit down, but I want you to make a wise, informed decision, but you have to take full ownership of that decision. Not just some knucklehead of podcaster.

• 56:42Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe it's way more complex than this, but the more I hear, the anger I'm getting on the inside and the more my heart's breaking for you. And so I'll stop now and wish you the absolute best and hope you get some wise counsel in your life. But hear me say this, you're not crazy. You're not crazy. We'll be right back.

• 57:03Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So the folks at BetterHelp just released their annual state of stigma report. It's full of all sorts of data about why so many people avoid getting help for their mental and emotional health challenges. Here's a data point that stood out to me that kind of shook me. More than three out of four Americans, three out of four, reported anxiety or depression symptoms over the last two weeks. If that's you and you're carrying stress, anxiety or depression symptoms, talking to someone can help you more than you could ever imagine. I want you to reach out to BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with one of their 30,000 plus licensed therapists based on your goals and preferences.

• 57:45Dr. John Delony?

  It's easy and it's convenient and you can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. Don't let stigma stand in the way of you getting the help that you need. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney and get 10% off. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash Deloney. All right, Kelly in her super deep V. What's up?

• 58:13Speaker 04

  Do you know that, so in the mornings when I'm figuring out what I'm going to wear and I get dressed, one of the things that I think about is what is John going to say? So I will have you know.

• 58:23Dr. John Delony?

  Is that why you wore your Cecil necklace?

• 58:25Speaker 04

  Yes. Yeah, that's it.

• 58:27Dr. John Delony?

  I was going to start doing some Kenny Chesney lyrics, but I'm not going to do that. I like it.

• 58:31Speaker 04

  Maybe some Jimmy Buffett. You know, hey, we'd all like to feel like we're at the beach.

• 58:34Dr. John Delony?

  With a cheeseburger.

• 58:35Speaker 04

  When we're not.

• 58:36Dr. John Delony?

  Exactly.

• 58:37Speaker 04

  So.

• 58:37Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you look great today.

• 58:38Speaker 04

  Thank you. All right. I have some cool crap that happened from Esther in some city that I can't pronounce in Michigan.

• 58:47Speaker 04

  She writes, my husband is in a high conflict co-parenting situation with two teenage daughters still at home. He's in a tricky spot wanting to help his girls process the reality that they're in, having a parent who they will always love, but is very hurtful to them, while never talking bad about their mom. He started listening to your show or Kelly's show that John hosts.

• 59:09Speaker 04

  I like Esther.

• 59:10Dr. John Delony?

  Shout out Esther. That was good. That was good.

• 59:12Speaker 04

  When the family was on long car rides. This opened up opportunities to talk about similar, uh, situations similar to theirs while keeping it safe hypothetical distance. The first big change we noticed was that one daughter started opening up about the difficult friendships at school and how she was using your advice to handle them. More recently, she has started to share with my husband some tough situations with her mom. She is also talking about how she plans to navigate the relationships going forward as she will soon turn 18. Thank you for this.

• 59:40Dr. John Delony?

  Dang, that's awesome. Good on everybody in that family. That's awesome. And glad we could be, uh, on the car speakers on the way there. I, I love, this is Kelly's show hosted by John. That is so true in so many aspects, in almost every aspect.

• 1:00:00Dr. John Delony?

  Well done, Esther. You called it out. You're the first person to ever call it out like that. And you are 100% correct. So that does it for Kelly's show that I'm a host of. Love you guys. Bye.