‘To Live and Die in L.A.’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

It’s CR Month, which means it’s time to crank up Wang Chung and take a ride on the wrong side of the road in Los Angeles to revisit William Friedkin’s ‘To Live and Die in L. A.’ starring William L. Petersen, Willem Dafoe, and John Pankow. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/REWATCHABLES Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.

• 0:44Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables is brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network. We can find the big picture with Sean Fantasy coming off a heroic live Oscars telecast.

• 0:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, and I predicted correctly that F1 would win Best Picture, and I feel very good about it.

• 0:56Bill Simmons?

  I can't believe Will Smith hit Chris Rock again. That was unbelievable. Why did he do that?

• 1:01Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know.

• 1:01Bill Simmons?

  The fucking maniac. Came back for more.

• 1:02Chris Ryan?

  Really got away from Conan up there.

• 1:04Bill Simmons?

  The sequel of The Slap. That's Chris Ryan right there.

• 1:07Chris Ryan?

  It is.

• 1:07Bill Simmons?

  You can, you can watch him and listen to him on the watch.

• 1:10Chris Ryan?

  It's true. Yeah.

• 1:11Bill Simmons?

  Big Picture sometimes.

• 1:12Chris Ryan?

  Sometimes.

• 1:13Bill Simmons?

  Bunch of different Ringer pods. More importantly, it's CR Month.

• 1:16Chris Ryan?

  Let's go.

• 1:17Bill Simmons?

  A lot of talk. We're taping this. Fargo's about to come up as we're taping this tonight. So this is the third movie of CR Month. We did Sicario as the first movie. And people are already saying like, where does this go from here? Is it?

• 1:30Sean Fennessey?

  I think it should end. I think this should be the last month of the show. Like, we did it.

• 1:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, we were talking, could there be a feast?

• 1:37Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38Chris Ryan?

  He was like, every year it's like San Gennaro.

• 1:41Sean Fennessey?

  I want to do like VR experiences like in the film Disclosure, but with you inside of the game.

• 1:47Bill Simmons?

  We're reenacting other stuff. I was thinking like that, where they filmed To Live and Die in L.A. There's a couple areas that are just not far from our downtown Spotify.

• 1:57Chris Ryan?

  They're really not. Yeah.

• 1:58Bill Simmons?

  Like, one of them is right next to where Major Domo is, basically where the entire scene before the chase scene. But yeah, anyway, To Live and Die in L.A., the third movie of CR Month, and it's next. This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by TikTok. The online world moves fast. That's why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind. From the start on TikTok, teens get over 50 built in protections right when they join. Their accounts start private by default. For those under 16, direct messages are turned off. Only friends can comment on their videos. When safety comes first, discovery can follow. Learn more at tiktok.com/guardiansguide.

• 2:56Bill Simmons?

  CR, we've been circling this one for a long time.

• 2:58Chris Ryan?

  This feels so right.

• 2:59Bill Simmons?

  Just doing laps. It's like a 1500 meter race. Just doing laps around it, kinda surveying it from afar.

• 3:07Chris Ryan?

  My wife was watching me watch this movie for the second and a half time this weekend. And she was like, don't you think you got it by now? And I was like, I had it. I had it 15 viewings ago. It just feels good.

• 3:22Bill Simmons?

  We always do this on the list between how much you love this movie. My love for Miami Vice and this whole era. And then Sean's love for Friedkin. We've just like been circling this forever. Friedkin said, "All the films that I have chosen to make are about the thin line between good and evil."

• 3:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:38Bill Simmons?

  Yes. That's what To Live and Die in L.A. is about. The thin line between the policeman and the criminal. The best cops are always crossed. The best cops are the ones who are able to think like criminals. But for a quirk of fate, they might've been criminals. I mean, this is Heat. This is half the movies we like. If there was an AI that could just go into our brains and write a final draft script, crime thriller. Good versus evil and cops and criminals getting too close to the line both ways would be the sweet spot.

• 4:07Chris Ryan?

  It would be, but I wonder whether if we had 100 chances, we'd have the balls to make it as unredemptive and dark and cynical as this movie is, which is still one of its greatest qualities.

• 4:17Bill Simmons?

  Red sun rising.

• 4:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:19Bill Simmons?

  The beginning, red sun rising near the end. Important Friedkin movie, because this is kind of it.

• 4:24Sean Fennessey?

  This is the big comeback. This is the, I'm saving it because he had two stinkers in a row, no offense to Cruising, which is obviously beloved in this house, but you know, not a big success.

• 4:34Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't use the word stinker, maybe commercially unrealized.

• 4:36Chris Ryan?

  How about misunderstood during its time?

• 4:39Bill Simmons?

  A conscious uncoupling of theatergoers in the movie?

• 4:44Sean Fennessey?

  Perhaps widely reviled.

• 4:45Chris Ryan?

  Bill sent us a picture of the combat zone this weekend, and the hairs on my arms stood up for the re-cruise.

• 4:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's an old time Boston Twitter feed in the combat zone. No response from anybody.

• 4:57Sean Fennessey?

  There has been a reclamation of Cruising, there has not been a reclamation of Deal of the Century, the movie that followed.

• 5:03Bill Simmons?

  No, sad in the theater.

• 5:04Sean Fennessey?

  It's a tough one.

• 5:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a tough one. And it was almost a career ender.

• 5:09Sean Fennessey?

  Almost a career ender, and he just strips way back down to what got him here in the first place with French Connection for this movie, which I agree, I wrote down, this is a super nasty and unflattering movie for every single person in it. It's kind of an amazing piece of fuck you cinema.

• 5:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're not even sure who the worst person in the movie is, and I'm still not sure, all these viewings later.

• 5:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, everybody you root for betrays somebody else, tries to get somebody else killed, gets corrupted. Probably the only person who's like most principled might be the Willem Dafoe character in some ways. And it's immersion not only in the language and procedures of the US Secret Service, of which there've really only been like a handful of really cool movies about Secret Service agents. That, plus the immersion in now lost art form, I think, of counterfeiting money. And an LA in a moment.

• 6:03Chris Ryan?

  That like I can kind of recognize the city that I live in in this movie. But it's so far gone that I feel like I'm nostalgic for something I never experienced. You know, like when they're driving around, they go to like the strip clubs and the bars and the, the bridges and the scrap yards and everywhere that they're hanging out. You're like, oh, I can see the bones of this, like the fossils of it under the dirt. But it's so gone that it's almost like a real period piece to watch.

• 6:30Bill Simmons?

  Craig probably didn't watch this one with Liz, I'm guessing.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  No, she kept saying, there's a lot of gunshots going on out there.

• 6:39Sean Fennessey?

  Was she sitting right next door? Like, did she have her ear against the door while she?

• 6:43Speaker 03

  I was blasting it pretty loud. I had to kind of lock in.

• 6:45Chris Ryan?

  Well, because Wang Chung kicks in, you're like, we're gonna work the speakers out.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Also, the car chase is quite long and she's like, man, this car chase is going for a while.

• 6:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it sure is. Thank goodness for that.

• 6:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would say this is a male fan movie would be my guess. The, the Venn diagram of people who like this, I'm gonna say it was very male.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  I did pause to show Liz, her favorite show is Frasier. I'm sure you see where I'm going here. I did pause to bring her in to say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ruin this, your favorite actress.

• 7:15Sean Fennessey?

  We praise Jane Leave's on this day.

• 7:17Bill Simmons?

  Well, we have Jane Leave's and Pankow, who was in, uh,

• 7:20Sean Fennessey?

  Mad About You.

• 7:20Bill Simmons?

  Mad About You for a while. So I'll give you my history of this movie.

• 7:26Bill Simmons?

  Was just against it when it came out and it was a Miami Vice thing, because I love Miami Vice. And the chronology of this movie tied to Miami Vice is really important because there's two reasons it didn't do well. One is MGM, Ted Turner, they just didn't get behind it. They buried it. Came out in November. Uh, the other thing was Miami Vice was too hot at this point. So Miami Vice is, this movie's filmed from late October 84 to late December 84.

• 7:51Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 7:52Bill Simmons?

  Miami Vice premieres in September of 84. Key point, Miami Vice not successful year one. Like culty successful, still watched by a lot of people on network TV. Not successful though, and it was very underground. I liked it because I was an only child who was home on Friday nights. A lot of the time.

• 8:11Chris Ryan?

  There's a since MythBusted myth that there was some litigation between the Miami Vice.

• 8:16Bill Simmons?

  It's just not true.

• 8:17Chris Ryan?

  I'm just saying, is it a MythBusted myth?

• 8:19Bill Simmons?

  You could see it from the dates. He's filming this. He didn't even know Miami Vice is a thing. So Miami Vice becomes successful that summer in the reruns, back when a reruns could really like.

• 8:30Chris Ryan?

  Summer of 85.

• 8:31Bill Simmons?

  Summer of, summer of 85. The reruns get it going. A lot of people catch up and there's real anticipation for the season two premiere, which is in New York. Tubbs goes back, Pam Grier's in it, our girl from Jackie Brown, 70s icon. Two parter, lot of buzz and the, the show hits and it's just like a massive show. The best show of season two was October 18th, out where the buses don't run. Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms. Maybe the best seven minutes of my life. Is this pod about Miami Vice? Well, I'm telling you.

• 9:09Chris Ryan?

  If we do 10 minutes on Tatum after this.

• 9:14Bill Simmons?

  Start to whip it out. Let me land the plane.

• 9:16Chris Ryan?

  Go ahead, go ahead. Sorry, Sol.

• 9:17Bill Simmons?

  So that's October 18th and we're kind of used to this Miami Vice elevated crime, bad guys, good guys, who's crossing the line? Video, all the things that the movie does, which comes out two weeks after that Dire Straits episode. And it's the first one where people are like, oh, we're making Miami Vice movie rip offs now? Fuck this. And you could feel it. I'm telling you, like, I didn't see this in the theater because I was like, oh, that's bullshit. They're doing, they're ripping off Miami Vice already. And meanwhile, it didn't. And I feel like it took for years and years for this to become what it became. Ebert, well, spoiling it now, gave it four stars. Like it was. Critically liked.

• 9:55Sean Fennessey?

  Really widely hailed, yeah.

• 9:57Bill Simmons?

  But it just didn't hit.

• 9:58Chris Ryan?

  And let's, let's be honest, it cost $6 million to make this. They made it with essentially no name actors at the time. Peterson, Pan Kao and Defoe are not household names at that moment. So I think it made a profit. It just didn't, it just didn't pop.

• 10:12Sean Fennessey?

  It grossed 17 million dollars.

• 10:13Chris Ryan?

  And the studio itself was

• 10:15Bill Simmons?

  Did okay.

• 10:16Chris Ryan?

  Very uncomfortable with the ending, which we'll definitely get into.

• 10:19Bill Simmons?

  And even when it was being rerun and it made the cable rounds in the eighties, it still felt like this is just like a better Miami Vice episode. And I really don't think it kind of took, had the legs until the nineties from a rewatchable.

• 10:33Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it has some superficial similarities in that it's just like a hard boiled crime drama set in a very glamorous and wealthy city, and it's about duos, right? And there are a lot of, there's a lot of duos and there's this huge criminal enterprise that these, this duo of cops is after. But after that, like, it's not really that similar, right?

• 10:51Bill Simmons?

  No, it's not.

• 10:52Chris Ryan?

  They're taking the law into their own hands slash.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  And the hard driving eighties music is the other thing.

• 10:56Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 10:56Bill Simmons?

  Like Wang Chung just blasting throughout this movie. There was a couple of other ones from that era, like Band in the Hand was like that, that people tried to tap into whatever was going on. But I, I'm convinced that they released this movie like four months earlier. I think it would have been like five times more popular, like before the real Miami Vice wave. I just think it was hard to compete with it.

• 11:17Chris Ryan?

  It's also, it's weird, we've talked about this with a bunch of movies that come out in this first half of the decade, but our concept of the eighties is much more refined now than our concept of the eighties was in the eighties.

• 11:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Chris Ryan?

  So this movie feels more like The French Connection to me than it does what I would think of an eighties cop movie like, I don't know, Tango and Cash or something, if that's late eighties, right? Like something that's like a lot of action set pieces with guys with long hair who's buff, you know? It's like, this is more like guys who are on their last leg trying to scam someone else at a 20 grand or like get revenge on a, on a, on a partner. It's not, it's not like the big Stallone Schwarzenegger kind of action movie of the eighties.

• 12:00Bill Simmons?

  Well, you're also, this is one of the great pop culture years of all time, 84 and 85. And so many movies came out in 85 that we've done on rewatchables. You know, and just, you're just fighting for. Attention against you have in music, you have Prince and Michael Jackson and Madonna and Huey Lewis and Springsteen. You just have these massive artists. TV is as big as it's ever been and you have the whole Cosby show at that point, but then Miami Vice. HBO started this point. Sports is amazing and movies could just kind of come and go. And I do feel, I do wonder if this movie just comes out in August. Does it remember completely differently? These gritty like movies, I don't think they hit like they would have in the nineties. Like I wonder if Heat came out in 1985, would it have hit? I don't know.

• 12:45Sean Fennessey?

  I just think there was a lot more polished alternatives to this kind of movie in that time. Like this is the time of Internal Affairs and Black Rain and you had a lot of much more stylized and like sleek crime dramas and this is a really nasty like boots on the ground kind of a movie and very purposefully so, right? It's so cheap and so like all that kind of architecture that you're talking about. It feels like it's kind of ancient and covered in soot as you go through it. It's not, it is not Miami. You know, it is like, it is the bowels of Los Angeles.

• 13:16Bill Simmons?

  No stars either, which I think is important because even if there's one star in this. I don't know, does it, does it play out differently? It's just, it's really weird to me that this movie wasn't more successful. Being there in the eighties, it's like, why was this a massive hit?

• 13:31Chris Ryan?

  If chances Richard Gere or Harrison Ford, it's a completely different movie. Cause you're bringing so much baggage with.

• 13:37Bill Simmons?

  Richard Gere would have been.

• 13:38Sean Fennessey?

  I have a whole take on this.

• 13:40Bill Simmons?

  Wow, we'll save it. Friedkin said he had seen Paris, Texas by Wim Wenders and uh got taken by the cinematography from Robbie Mauer and that was the style he wanted. He wanted the city to be portrayed as, quote, "A violent cynical wasteland under a burning sun."

• 13:57Chris Ryan?

  So Robbie Mauer makes three movies right around this time. Repo Man, set in the punk rock world of Los Angeles. Paris, Texas, which is about two guys on their road trip back to California from, from the Southwest. And To Live and Die in L.A. and he basically brings a European eye. So when he shows up to L.A., Friedkin's not like, here, do everything I tell you to do. This movie is all about its collaborators. It's all about Wang Chung. It's all about Robbie Mauer. It's all about Lily Cliver, who did the production design. It's like, you guys are good at what you do and you bring like a completely new eye. So all this stuff like. When Jeff and Rick are walking from the basketball game, talking about killing Totoro's

• 14:40Chris Ryan?

  character in prison, and they're walking by the mural in Watts and stuff, it's like, how did you guys decide to stage this year? Like, what an eye. And it's like that outsider's eye to LA that makes this movie so fascinating to watch.

• 14:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's high art, low culture. Like, that's my favorite thing. My favorite thing is when like, a complete, uh, aesthete comes into like, a really dingy kind of world. And there's like, other people in addition, like, Leslie Linka Glatter, who we know is like, a TV director now, did the choreography for the dance sequence. Um, Rainer Wedding, who is like, a very exciting German artist in the new German wave, did all the paintings for Willem Dafoe's character. That's a choice that Friedkin made. Like, you don't have to know that stuff to enjoy the movie, but there's so much cool things to look at. Because of all these choices that these people made.

• 15:26Chris Ryan?

  This is what happens when you get to like, watch number 10, 10, 15, 20, or whatever with a movie, is like, I'll be watching this, and like, they'll be talking about whatever, but I'm like, looking at the shit that's on the desk in the Secret Service Equipment locker room. I'm like, oh man, look at the drills and screwdrivers and all the stuff they've got hanging on the walls, and like, Pan Cao's gotta fill out a clipboard, because he's putting the shotgun back. And I'm like, this stuff feels so tactile, that you can just kind of like, live in it over and over again. And you always like, say this, this is a movie that's been completely revived, because you can see it now in 4K. And you can see it. It does not look like-

• 16:04Bill Simmons?

  The 4K is incredible. By the way, I had the poster ready, and it didn't show up in time.

• 16:10Chris Ryan?

  Oh, no.

• 16:11Bill Simmons?

  It's fucking bullshit. I thought, I thought we were gonna have it behind us. So we had to set off for Pacino and Kilmer and De Niro again.

• 16:17Sean Fennessey?

  You get that burning sun in the poster, right?

• 16:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Bill Simmons?

  It's a great poster. We'll have it for, maybe for the last episode, to see if it works. Um, Friedkin said he chose fringe areas, Nickerson Gardens in Watts, Temple and 18th Streets, the home of the Crips and Bloods, Slosson Avenue in South Central, the Vincent Thomas Bridge, Terminal Island Freeway, um, vast power plants in Wilmington, Louis, uh, St. Louis Abyssal Prison, et cetera, et cetera.

• 16:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, a lot of San Pedro in this movie. You see San Pedro over and over again.

• 16:47Bill Simmons?

  You know you're in LA, but it doesn't, it feels like in LA that there's no Hollywood shit. You think about the difference between this and Beverly Hills Cop, which comes out the year before, and it's, might as well be two different locations.

• 16:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, they shoot, like- One or two things in, in like, around where Beverly Center is.

• 17:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:04Chris Ryan?

  And Waxman's supposed to live in Pasadena.

• 17:07Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:07Chris Ryan?

  But other than that, it's mostly like, down by like, downtown, or south of that, or out in Long Beach, or out where.

• 17:14Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the cool things about LA, cause like, Swingers does that too, 11 years later. Just takes you into this different part of Hollywood and all these little tiny fringe pieces of it.

• 17:23Sean Fennessey?

  This was, this was my huge case for Crime 101, which I just feel like, you know, it was like a solid movie, but it's shot in LA, and there are so many moments in that movie where you can recognize the city that we live in. This would probably be less recognizable to anybody who was living in Beverly Hills at the time, though.

• 17:39Bill Simmons?

  Would you say was your sweet spot, when artiste film in dingy places?

• 17:43Sean Fennessey?

  When aesthetes, yeah, go to dingy places, yeah.

• 17:45Chris Ryan?

  High art, low culture.

• 17:45Sean Fennessey?

  Like, high art, low culture.

• 17:46Bill Simmons?

  So, could the Jets season qualify for this, or no?

• 17:49Chris Ryan?

  Well, you could've just, you could've been like, that's a great point, Sean.

• 17:52Sean Fennessey?

  I'm curious. I mean, there's, thank you. There's, no, there's no, there's no artistic soul in the Jets, that's why.

• 17:58Bill Simmons?

  Just wanted to make sure.

• 17:58Sean Fennessey?

  They're just, they're just low culture.

• 18:00Bill Simmons?

  Friedkin almost had a 10-picture, $100 million deal with 20th Century Fox. The studio got purchased by Rupert Murdoch and it fell through. So, he was back to be a movie-by-movie and optioned this Gerald Petrovich.

• 18:14Sean Fennessey?

  Petrovich.

• 18:16Chris Ryan?

  Who makes a cameo in the beginning.

• 18:17Bill Simmons?

  Secret Service agent, who had this whole thing laid out. Friedkin added the opening terror sequence, which we'll talk about in a second, the car chase. And then focused earlier on Chance and Masters, William Peterson, Willem Dafoe. Nobody knew who the fuck these guys were when they make this movie. And he, the Peterson thing's unbelievable. So, Chicago stage actor talks him into doing it. He's 33, nobody knows who he is.

• 18:43Chris Ryan?

  He's doing Streetcar in Toronto?

• 18:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:45Chris Ryan?

  And he goes and sees him, he's like, "Yeah, that's the star of my movie."

• 18:47Bill Simmons?

  Peterson does that and Manhunter back-to-back, which we talked about in the Manhunter thing. And he's off. Very strange career after that, but, um, one thing I wrote down. I don't know if you noticed this, Craig. Incredible athleticism by Peterson. Like Combine, I think he's like the winner of the Combine.

• 19:04Sean Fennessey?

  College football player.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  At the, oh, is that right?

• 19:06Sean Fennessey?

  College football?

• 19:06Bill Simmons?

  Is that what it was?

• 19:07Speaker 03

  At the airport, he jumps up on that railing.

• 19:09Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  And runs down the entire thing. That's all one take and clearly him doing it. Super coordinated.

• 19:14Bill Simmons?

  I think there's a bunch of like that bridge chase down scene.

• 19:16Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:17Bill Simmons?

  It's another one, but I think Combine, he goes in as like a fourth rounder, comes out like, people are talking about him, high first round.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  Cooper Dejean, kind of odds.

• 19:26Bill Simmons?

  Like, holy shit.

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Tom Hanks pounding the table for him.

• 19:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Also really wears the jeans in a unique way. I don't know how he does it. He's got kind of this, almost seems pigeon toed, but has style to him.

• 19:37Sean Fennessey?

  It's like John Wayne. He's got, he's got, first of all, incredible jeans movie. Just dudes are just crushing, every guy is crushing jeans.

• 19:44Bill Simmons?

  Jeans are just not great in this version of LA. Cause you're talking 80, 89 degrees every day. Just a lot of like undercarriage sweat and guessing the jeans. He doesn't care. Yeah.

• 19:54Chris Ryan?

  You think this movie would be better if everybody was wearing like Allbirds joggers?

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Fairly.

• 19:59Chris Ryan?

  They're all dressed like J.J. Reddick.

• 20:01Bill Simmons?

  Uh, CR, where does he rank for your all time? He's not going to play by the rules characters for cop, cop movies. I'll give you Marion Cebrety. I'll give you any Steven Seagal cop movie. I'll give you Popeye and French Connection. I don't know who else is in there.

• 20:17Chris Ryan?

  I think Chance is almost unique in just how brazen he is about it. Like he's at his house and he's just like, I'm getting this guy. And I don't care. Like, I'm just going to keep going down the rabbit hole of crime until I find my objective. So Popeye Doyle like is constantly breaking what we would consider laws now. I wonder if it's more of a depiction of like the state of civil rights in New York City in the seventies, but Chance is up there.

• 20:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's a nine out of 10, but Dennis Peck is still a straight 10.

• 20:46Chris Ryan?

  Dennis Peck is Satan. Yeah.

• 20:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's, Dennis Peck's a full 10.

• 20:50Sean Fennessey?

  I, I thought a lot about Caruso in NYPD Blue, actually watching him. I feel like this is a little bit of like a model for that too.

• 20:56Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one.

• 20:57Chris Ryan?

  Um, you felt like he was dirty?

• 21:00Sean Fennessey?

  Felt like he stretched the limits of what was acceptable.

• 21:03Bill Simmons?

  Meaning, one of the first season, one of the great first seasons ever, but he finds out about Amy Brennaman's character and just buries the info for episode after episode because she's good to have sex with.

• 21:13Sean Fennessey?

  Pushed the limit a little bit on what was ethical.

• 21:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I like when the cop, you just can't get a handle on him. He's just willing to get dark.

• 21:22Chris Ryan?

  The fact that he gets to go undercover in this and be Mr. Jessup is great. I love it when they they get too deep into their cover stories.

• 21:30Bill Simmons?

  I've always, like, I've always loved this guy, obviously.

• 21:32Chris Ryan?

  Peterson?

• 21:33Bill Simmons?

  He does these first two, and then he does Amazing Grace and Chuck, which is a reprehensible movie. It's really awful. Uh, but does feature Alex English playing an exhibition game with the 86 Celtics. There's five Hall of Famers out there at the same time, Sean. I know that's meaningful for you.

• 21:48Chris Ryan?

  Who does?

• 21:50Bill Simmons?

  Really, really, truly awful movie. And then he's in Long Island, which I I kind of like. And just kind of came and went, but is a a really decent 80s sports movie. You don't like it?

• 22:01Sean Fennessey?

  No, I do. I mean, this is my hottest take.

• 22:04Bill Simmons?

  You want to do it now? Go.

• 22:06Sean Fennessey?

  He's two movie choices away from being in the Mel Gibson, Michael Douglas, Jeff Bridges, Richard Gere, Bruce Willis zone.

• 22:12Bill Simmons?

  Should we go through that?

• 22:13Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it's those two movies. He does those two movies. And if he doesn't do them and just does almost anything else in 86 and 87, and then makes one choice, maybe two, in 89 and 90, he's probably in the Mel Gibson zone in terms of how famous he is.

• 22:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, I'll give you the choices. He turned down Henry Hill and Goodfellas, allegedly.

• 22:35Chris Ryan?

  Allegedly.

• 22:37Bill Simmons?

  Tough one.

• 22:38Sean Fennessey?

  He turned it down to do Young Guns 2.

• 22:41Bill Simmons?

  And to do a Kennedy's miniseries.

• 22:44Sean Fennessey?

  Did play back Pat Garrett.

• 22:45Bill Simmons?

  Kennedy's miniseries he did as well. He also, so he turned down a major role in Heat, multiple sources, but I don't know what role it was. And it's a great question of what role would he have turned down? I would assume it's the Jon Voight?

• 22:57Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah, or Fichtner, or I can't see him.

• 23:01Bill Simmons?

  He's Roger Van Zant?

• 23:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but I can't see him being Chorito at that age.

• 23:04Sean Fennessey?

  Fichtner is interesting. I could see that.

• 23:06Bill Simmons?

  There wouldn't have been Kilmer's part, right?

• 23:08Chris Ryan?

  No. I don't think so.

• 23:11Sean Fennessey?

  He also reportedly declined an offer to play one of the characters in Platoon.

• 23:15Chris Ryan?

  So this is the thing.

• 23:16Bill Simmons?

  That's true.

• 23:16Chris Ryan?

  He is Sergeant Barnes. Like, it's right there.

• 23:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 23:19Chris Ryan?

  And watching him even with Defoe, you're like, oh, my God, what could have been in that?

• 23:24Bill Simmons?

  He turned down Platoon so he could do Amazing Grace and Chuck and Long Gone.

• 23:28Chris Ryan?

  Did he turn down the Behringer part in Platoon, or did they say?

• 23:32Bill Simmons?

  They didn't say which one.

• 23:32Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 23:33Sean Fennessey?

  It looks like, it's unclear. He was basically like, I don't want to go to boot camp for six weeks.

• 23:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:38Sean Fennessey?

  For, to do this movie. And that's the other thing with him is he's kind of like, I'm doing what I want. But the thing is, within five years after turning down Goodfellas, he's playing the dad in Fear. And like, that's how much it can change. Now, he gets the last laugh for sure, but you're talking about like, one of the major sliding doors in movie star history, I think.

• 23:56Bill Simmons?

  He does. I had, so he was in Fear. He's in The Rat Pack, which I think is one of the four best HBO movies of the eighties, nineties, two thousands. He plays John Kennedy in The Rat Pack.

• 24:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 24:08Bill Simmons?

  He's excellent in it. And that movie's awesome. It's only available on YouTube. I don't think they could get the rights to the music.

• 24:13Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 24:14Bill Simmons?

  So you can find it on YouTube. Then he's in The Contender.

• 24:16Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:16Bill Simmons?

  Which he's also really good in.

• 24:17Sean Fennessey?

  He is.

• 24:18Bill Simmons?

  But the moment's kind of over at that point. What happens? He goes to CSI in two thousand and just makes all time fuck you money.

• 24:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And also, like, twenty-five million people a week watching him.

• 24:30Sean Fennessey?

  And the reason he works on that show is the same reason he works in the movie. He's insanely watchable. You're like, you, I, you're just locked in when he's on screen. You want to be following along his journey and you care about him, which is why, and the choice this movie makes is a crazy one in terms of what happens to his character.

• 24:43Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 24:43Sean Fennessey?

  Because you're so with him through this, even though he keeps breaking the rules and keeps fucking up. Like, we can talk about how much he fucks up as a character.

• 24:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Sean Fennessey?

  But he's, he's, I think he's a great star. This is an amazing find by Friedkin to pluck this guy out because his casting director told him to go to Toronto.

• 24:57Chris Ryan?

  For him to be like, for my partner, we should, we should get my buddy John Pankow, who's like another Chicago actor, another Chicago stage actor. And it's like, those guys have instant chemistry. Their initial scenes together, especially like when he's just like, I'm no snitch, you just should have told me. Like, that whole scene in the, in the evidence locker area of the Secret Service is so good. Those guys have so much stuff going on between them. And I don't know if you get that, if you're like. Here's two random guys that have never had any relationship.

• 25:25Sean Fennessey?

  It's like you and Joe House, breaking down Khan, you know, like that's you guys, you have a lot of history.

• 25:28Chris Ryan?

  No snitch.

• 25:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Who was the guy, who was the, the prospect that you, you were talking about with, with House in the draft? And he was like, I knew this was going to be your guy.

• 25:37Bill Simmons?

  Acuff.

• 25:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 25:38Bill Simmons?

  We hadn't even talked about it. Yeah. We, we both, it was our favorite guy. We never discussed it. We're, we're usually aligned. So I mentioned this before, but Peterson has lived kind of in my relative neighborhood and would see him in different places. And it was everything you wanted, where he's just clearly like, I don't act anymore. I made so much money. I have a family. I'm just living my life. I'm having a great time. So it all worked out for him.

• 26:04Sean Fennessey?

  He did great.

• 26:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:05Bill Simmons?

  But I do feel like, could he have been Costa? Like.

• 26:09Sean Fennessey?

  It's on, it's on the table.

• 26:11Chris Ryan?

  You could definitely see him.

• 26:12Bill Simmons?

  Crash Davis? Yes.

• 26:13Chris Ryan?

  You could see him as Roy in Field of Dreams.

• 26:15Bill Simmons?

  Could his next movie have been No Way Out? Like, yeah.

• 26:18Sean Fennessey?

  I think there's like, can you hold a baseball bat? Can you hold a gun? Can you sit in the president's chair? Those are like big steps for movie stars. He could have done any of those jobs.

• 26:28Bill Simmons?

  Could you drive a car? Can like, it's him, Costa, Mel Gibson, there's only a few of these guys like this.

• 26:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:35Bill Simmons?

  And not like a short guy, like he's, he's got some size to him. He's strong. Um, there's a sexiness to him, I think, like that's some of those guys wouldn't be able to pull off, like.

• 26:44Sean Fennessey?

  The one little nugget.

• 26:45Bill Simmons?

  Shows up at what's-her-face's Darlene Flugel's house. He's like, I'm ready. Do you want to just do this now, Craig? Craig wants to do his flex category now. Speaking of William Peterson.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think it has to hit the, the Dan Campbell scale for holy shit, are they really going for this? I do think this is like the gratuitous eighties nudity triple axel, this scene. Where he walks in, she's already naked. He gives her a shirt.

• 27:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  She puts the shirt on, then gets out of bed. Bare ass, hand on the ass, to the straddle, to the lay her down, to the silhouette of his penis.

• 27:18Bill Simmons?

  But he's naked the whole time.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Yes. Underneath the straddle, you see this shadowed silhouette of his genitalia.

• 27:26Bill Simmons?

  He's, he's going full hanging dog.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  It is.

• 27:29Bill Simmons?

  It's not just like a dick shot. It's like dick and balls. I'm giving you the whole thing.

• 27:33Chris Ryan?

  It's like, apparently Free Quentin was like, make it as real as you can stand.

• 27:37Sean Fennessey?

  I listened to the commentary. He said, I'm setting the camera here. Do whatever you want.

• 27:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 27:41Sean Fennessey?

  And that is why, um, I would use a slightly different category for this film, which is

• 27:47Bill Simmons?

  I had it.

• 27:47Sean Fennessey?

  The Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award.

• 27:50Bill Simmons?

  I literally had this in mine too.

• 27:51Sean Fennessey?

  I think you need a better intimacy coordinator in 2026.

• 27:55Chris Ryan?

  Robbie's like, the lights are set.

• 27:58Bill Simmons?

  It's one of those in the 4K Blu-ray where you're watching it.

• 28:01Chris Ryan?

  It's unbelievable.

• 28:02Bill Simmons?

  He's naked, cause you see his, you see his whole franks and beans.

• 28:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Bill Simmons?

  She's definitely naked. And then she jumps on and they found her and you're like, wait a second, was there like, did anyone have any sort of?

• 28:12Chris Ryan?

  We're in Donald Sutherland, Julie Christie's zone.

• 28:14Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:15Sean Fennessey?

  Very clearly.

• 28:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 28:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:17Bill Simmons?

  Peter, so I, this had, this movie had a 48th anniversary. And Peterson took his sons, cause I think he remarried and has sons. And he was like, yeah, I'm excited to take my sons. I'm a little nervous. And I'm like, whoa, I think your sons are getting a little extra surprise from dad.

• 28:32Sean Fennessey?

  Little popcorn break during that scene, I think.

• 28:34Bill Simmons?

  Dad, is that my mom?

• 28:38Bill Simmons?

  Are those your balls?

• 28:40Sean Fennessey?

  The funniest thing about that scene too, is that in the final three minutes of the movie, Freegan's like, we're going back to that scene.

• 28:46Bill Simmons?

  He's flashbacking. Unbelievable. But yeah, he's really going for it this whole time. Great job by Peterson.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  I love that he gives her the shirt and she puts it on.

• 28:57Sean Fennessey?

  It's just so she could like, he like lift it, you know, and you're like, see her ass a little bit. It's great.

• 29:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cause we always talk with actresses, like, man, why didn't they have a couple more? And I think it's more understandable. Actresses, cause there was less good parts in the eighties and nineties, 2000s, you just get replaced by the next person. It's really hard to find a leading man like a Peterson, Costner, Gibson, name it. And it felt like he should have been on that. Now, he lives on in a couple of these movies and then CSI hits the jackpot. So I'm sure it worked out fine. Defoe is at the very beginning of his journey. Four Oscar nominations he ends up with. What do you think for IMDB credits? What number?

• 29:35Chris Ryan?

  He's, he works a lot. I would say over one fifty.

• 29:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I would say one twenty seven.

• 29:42Bill Simmons?

  Want to give an exact number?

• 29:43Chris Ryan?

  Let's go one seventy.

• 29:45Bill Simmons?

  One sixty three.

• 29:46Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, yeah.

• 29:48Bill Simmons?

  So eighty four to eighty eight is in Streets of Fire, To Live and Die.

• 29:51Chris Ryan?

  That's a four decade.

• 29:52Bill Simmons?

  Platoon, Last Temptation of Christ, and Mississippi Burning.

• 29:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Bill Simmons?

  So we have the KKK, we have Vietnam, we have.

• 30:00Chris Ryan?

  Jesus.

• 30:01Bill Simmons?

  Jesus.

• 30:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Bill Simmons?

  Um, we have this movie and we have, uh, Michael Prey's bomb.

• 30:06Sean Fennessey?

  But he's the good guy in Mississippi Burning, right? Isn't he, isn't he partnered with Hackman? I think he's partnered with Hackman.

• 30:12Chris Ryan?

  I think I've only seen Mississippi Burning.

• 30:13Sean Fennessey?

  I think he's an FBI agent in a square. And that's the thing in Streets of Fire and in this movie, he's the two of the most evil villains you could ever imagine. And then he plays Christ and an FBI agent. Um, he had range and then in Platoon, he's also kind of Christ.

• 30:26Bill Simmons?

  And then famously loses the Joker because the studio decides to get bigger and goes for Jack Nicholson.

• 30:33Sean Fennessey?

  He gets revenge.

• 30:34Bill Simmons?

  This whole run and Ben the Joker.

• 30:35Sean Fennessey?

  But he gets to play Green Goblin in Spider-Man.

• 30:38Chris Ryan?

  So both of these actors do things in this movie that I think more famous,

• 30:45Chris Ryan?

  more famous actors would just be like, I can't. We have to have some level of redemption. Defoe blowing Jimmy Hart's head off after being like, buddy, you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.

• 30:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 30:57Chris Ryan?

  And Chance doing like fifteen things in this movie. You would just be like, hey, man, like I got a career to think about. And I do think in some ways, I wonder whether or not the kinds of movies that Peterson was doing in this ascendancy, like, like To Live and Die and Manhunter are almost like, well, this guy's too dark.

• 31:14Bill Simmons?

  I think it fucked him up.

• 31:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:16Bill Simmons?

  From the post-Manhunter, I think he really had some issues trying to figure out what to do. He was like this anonymous stage actor.

• 31:24Sean Fennessey?

  Those choices that he.

• 31:25Bill Simmons?

  Dark places.

• 31:25Sean Fennessey?

  Those choices that he made in the late eighties to kind of show him like trying to shift away, like try to do more lighthearted movies.

• 31:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:31Bill Simmons?

  It's interesting. I wrote down for Defoe, really unique ceiling basement potential.

• 31:36Chris Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 31:37Bill Simmons?

  Because he's been great in some stuff, but I also think. Body Evidence and Speed 2 are two of the worst performances by a good actor ever. Like, ever.

• 31:48Chris Ryan?

  I don't think either of those.

• 31:49Bill Simmons?

  Speed 2 is like a truly, singularly atrocious villain scale performance. May even be in our villain scale like a zero out of 10. And Body Evidence is just a famous clunker with Madonna. It's like a Basic Instinct gone wrong. It's so bad, it's actually not even fun to watch. It's not like, oh, this is like campy bad.

• 32:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:09Bill Simmons?

  It's just awful. There's nothing good about it. So when he's bad, he's bad. And when he's good, he's really good. And he's got an interesting place in Hollywood history at this point.

• 32:17Sean Fennessey?

  He's done a really good job in the last 15 years of basically saying like, okay, I work with Sean Baker, Robert Eggers, Wes Anderson. Like, he kind of just lifts up, he still makes a lot of movies with Abel Ferrara, who he's been friends with for like 50 years.

• 32:33Bill Simmons?

  It checks out.

• 32:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. But you know, he was like, he was in an experimental theater troupe in the Worcester Group. He's an unusual dude. And the fact that he has managed to balance like really interesting art house movies with the most mainstream movies of all time, like Platoon and Spider-Man, is pretty fascinating.

• 32:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:51Bill Simmons?

  I, uh, I really like him in this movie.

• 32:54Chris Ryan?

  One of the great faces.

• 32:56Bill Simmons?

  I actually think you could argue he's more of a good guy than some of the good guys.

• 33:00Chris Ryan?

  That's what I'm saying. I mean, like Rick at least is like.

• 33:02Bill Simmons?

  Maybe don't go, maybe don't go to my site where I'm counter, doing counterfeit money there. Old guy with two guys dies left before he retires.

• 33:09Chris Ryan?

  He does send Bianca in to seduce Max Waxman, you know? And he's like, you're trying to fuck my lady, you know? But like, for the most part, he's like a pretty stand-up guy. They think.

• 33:16Bill Simmons?

  Good artist.

• 33:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Bill Simmons?

  Talented painter.

• 33:18Chris Ryan?

  And also, you know what? His own worst critic. Like, his painting's on fire. You know, you'd love to see that kind of really like, like, living up to your own potential.

• 33:26Sean Fennessey?

  He is also a professional counterfeiter and murderer, just for the record. See, you guys are fluffing him a little bit. Just want you to know, he is a rank criminal.

• 33:37Bill Simmons?

  I had a feeling the sex scene, they probably went for it to the point where even Friedkin was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna have to take this out."

• 33:43Chris Ryan?

  The one where they're videoing it?

• 33:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, where they're videoing it, where it's just like an abrupt cut.

• 33:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  Where Friedkin was like, "Yeah, you're probably right. We don't want to get an X here."

• 33:53Sean Fennessey?

  This movie is horny.

• 33:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, Darlene Flugel, mid-eighties babe, we talked about earlier, To Live and Die, Running Scared, which we've already done.

• 34:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 34:00Bill Simmons?

  She's in Crime Story, which is...

• 34:02Chris Ryan?

  Dennis Farina's wife, right?

• 34:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it just never, I really wanted it to work. It just never quite got there. She was in Hunter and she was Sly Stallone's wife in Lockup. A movie that I like and maybe five other people. Sly Stallone Goes to Jail.

• 34:17Chris Ryan?

  Did you and Kyle do Lockup or no?

• 34:19Bill Simmons?

  I'm just kinda waiting for my dance partner for Lockup.

• 34:22Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 34:23Bill Simmons?

  It's got, have we talked about Lockup, Craig? It's got the best sports scene in a movie that's not a sports movie, I think, ever.

• 34:31Chris Ryan?

  What do they play?

• 34:31Bill Simmons?

  They have this jail football game and it's fucking spectacular. Like, they could run it on NFL Network and people would think it was just a 1958 NFL title.

• 34:42Chris Ryan?

  Take you up on that offer.

• 34:44Bill Simmons?

  It's spectacular. Sly Stallone, it's really great.

• 34:46Sean Fennessey?

  I feel a nice like...

• 34:47Chris Ryan?

  Why are we showing fucking Lockup on a Thursday night?

• 34:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's some like cross promo with Kyle that you could potentially pull off.

• 34:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Sean Fennessey?

  If you can get Lockup.

• 34:54Bill Simmons?

  Kyle's not in a Lockup. I've tried.

• 34:56Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 34:56Bill Simmons?

  I've done some, some, it just never got, kinda like CR with some of his CR month movies.

• 35:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh my god, the poll.

• 35:04Chris Ryan?

  You want to talk about it now?

• 35:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, we just, well, we're gonna take a break in a second, but we should mention the poll.

• 35:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:09Bill Simmons?

  We had a poll for the fourth movie. And we had some bangers in there and now people are like, "Can you just do all 12 of these movies?" But the winner ended up being The Nice Guys.

• 35:19Chris Ryan?

  And I think an indication that the post-2010 generation has a voice as well.

• 35:25Bill Simmons?

  Don't fucking suck up to them.

• 35:27Chris Ryan?

  I'm not sucking up. I got my own month. I don't care.

• 35:29Bill Simmons?

  1985 movie.

• 35:31Sean Fennessey?

  He's trying to stay young, you know?

• 35:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I was surprised Goonies didn't win, but...

• 35:35Sean Fennessey?

  I was too.

• 35:36Chris Ryan?

  But Nice Guys is a big, big favor of people who listen to this pod, as it should be.

• 35:40Bill Simmons?

  People love Gosling, including Craig. Can't wait. Very excited.

• 35:44Chris Ryan?

  Very excited.

• 35:44Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're gonna take a, take a quick break, come back with the rest.

• 35:49Bill Simmons?

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• 38:35Bill Simmons?

  Wang Chung.

• 38:37Chris Ryan?

  I think you forgot two, well, sometimes it's two words, sometimes it's one. Wang motherfucking Chung.

• 38:44Bill Simmons?

  Wang motherfucking Chung.

• 38:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:50Sean Fennessey?

  Uh huh. Break it down. Put us, put us in the space.

• 38:54Chris Ryan?

  Does anything get you going more than this, man? Come on.

• 38:58Bill Simmons?

  I actually was gonna float to you guys whether we need to rename Apex Mountain.

• 39:04Chris Ryan?

  Wang Chung Mountain?

• 39:05Bill Simmons?

  Wang Chung Apex Mountain? Like when they do the college, it's like the Rose Bowl presented by State Farm? State Farm Rose Bowl?

• 39:14Chris Ryan?

  Taxpayer.

• 39:15Bill Simmons?

  Is it just the Wang Chung Apex Mountain? They have this movie and they have Breakfast Club. She's burning fire in the twilight as they're trying to escape from the principal. Just in the same year?

• 39:25Chris Ryan?

  I wish that you would take some of your hard-earned money, buy a sponsorship of a college bowl game, and rename it the Wang Chung Apex Mountain Bowl. North Texas versus Hawaii.

• 39:39Bill Simmons?

  And they would only have to play Wang Chung music throughout the entire thing.

• 39:43Sean Fennessey?

  I appreciate how your announcer voice now is just Robert Loja.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  It's Robert Lujah doing monster trucks.

• 39:51Bill Simmons?

  I love that. So the story is Friedkin's like, I want you to do all the music for this, as you mentioned, very collaborative. And he's like, the one thing I don't want you guys to do, this is it. Your only instruction, don't make a song called To Live and Die in L.A. because there's no way I'm putting in the movie. So don't fucking do that. Wang Chung gets in the studio, they come out and they're like, hey, we made a song. Just can you give this a listen? Friedkin listens to it. It's like, that's fucking awesome. And films a whole new first seven minutes of the movie.

• 40:19Sean Fennessey?

  This is why it's the best. Come on.

• 40:22Bill Simmons?

  It sounds like something I would do, Ben and Jerry. There's no way we're fucking doing that.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  I'm on the next pod.

• 40:31Bill Simmons?

  Unbelievable.

• 40:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's really great. I love it.

• 40:33Bill Simmons?

  Can you imagine being in the, in the Friedkin's office when the Wang Chung guy's like, do they, were they British? Where were these guys?

• 40:39Chris Ryan?

  They were British, yeah.

• 40:40Bill Simmons?

  He's like, hey, William, we have a song.

• 40:42Sean Fennessey?

  Also, this is, this is Hurricane Billy. Like, he's not some shrinking violet. You're like, oh, yeah, sure, sure. He's like, known to be like, fucking don't do it. Do not put the song To Live and Die in L.A.

• 40:53Chris Ryan?

  Do you know what, though? He has said that this is the easiest movie he made, which is insane with this car chase and with some of the stuff in there. And I think probably this is the purest reflection of his talent is to just be like, running and gunning. I don't have a lot of studio executives messing with me while I'm shooting. They eventually messed with him when it was over. And then like, I, he obviously just like loves the collaborators he worked with on this because why else would he just be like Chung, Wang? You guys got it. You have the entire, the canvas is yours. It's blank. And if you guys want to call a song To Live and Die in L.A., let's do it.

• 41:28Bill Simmons?

  I mean, this was my music, that 8186. This was, this was the early alternative with the Cure and the Smiths. I'd order all those bands. This was not like a major band. They had like two songs that were like reasonably popular.

• 41:43Chris Ryan?

  Everybody Wang Chung.

• 41:44Bill Simmons?

  Dance All Days. Everybody Wang Chung. That song wasn't out yet.

• 41:47Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay. So that's after this? Dance All Days was on the third album. This is the fourth album, basically.

• 41:51Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Bill Simmons?

  Like, there were probably 50 Wang Chungs. And for some reason Friedkin's like, these guys.

• 41:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Bill Simmons?

  And just saw, like, what was your Wang Chung background?

• 42:01Speaker 03

  All I know is Everybody Wang Chung Tonight is the only song I really.

• 42:03Chris Ryan?

  But you were fucking driving around L.A. listening to this soundtrack yesterday.

• 42:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. Nothing better. I made Liz listen to it like five times.

• 42:09Bill Simmons?

  I actually, when I watched it last night.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  I was like, this is the best. Look at the sunset.

• 42:13Bill Simmons?

  When I watched the movie last night. I think it it the fir- it's like the first twenty-two minutes. Twenty-four minutes, I don't know what it is. That it's like you're just ribbited the entire time.

• 42:25Chris Ryan?

  Because there's like three montages and three beginnings of the movie and it doesn't matter. It's like.

• 42:30Bill Simmons?

  It's so good.

• 42:31Chris Ryan?

  And like.

• 42:32Sean Fennessey?

  But he he fucking does this over and over again. It's like Tubular Bells in The Exorcist. It's Tangerine Dream and Sorcerer. Like, he he just has incredible taste. And he doesn't have like the same composer that he uses every time. Every time he starts from scratch and he's like, here's what I think this movie's vibe is. And he just like plucks Wang Chung out of relative obscurity, not total obscurity, but they weren't, like you said, they weren't huge.

• 42:55Chris Ryan?

  The co-producer on the movie is the editor and there are scenes that they are obviously cutting around the music. Like, it's it's early music video style, where it's like, like when Chance is chasing Totoro through the airport. The music comes in right as the siren goes off at the metal detector and you're like, oh man, I'm fucking pumped for this.

• 43:18Bill Simmons?

  I mean, the bummer is that they gave Fire in the Twilight to Breakfast Club because there's like four scenes that they could have easily whipped that one into. Yeah, when, so my wife was like on on her phone like half watching, but when the opening credits came up. And they kicked in with the different shots and the colors and the graphics, like. There was just nothing better in nineteen eighty-five. This was, we peaked.

• 43:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  Even like Miami Vice, Michael Mann, like that kind of like, it was, this was at another level with the graphics and the colors. It was just great.

• 43:48Sean Fennessey?

  And Robbie Mueller, you know, like, that's the same thing. He just plucked this guy more or less out of Germany. I guess he'd come to America at that point, but like. It's a perfect fit and they never worked together again. This is the only movie they made together.

• 43:58Bill Simmons?

  It's so funny because Wang Chung, again, came and went as a band. They probably had five songs that everybody could remember, plus. Breakfast Club and this movie. And yet they have a much longer tail now because of the the two movies, right? Whereas like. Duran Duran was like a way bigger band, right? And can still tour and do all these different things, but was never integrated in a movie like this. Tangerine Dream was another one.

• 44:22Sean Fennessey?

  You haven't seen The Bone Temple.

• 44:24Bill Simmons?

  What do you mean?

• 44:25Sean Fennessey?

  Twenty-eight years later, The Bone Temple, which just came out, prominently uses the music of Duran Duran.

• 44:30Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 44:31Sean Fennessey?

  I want to check it out.

• 44:33Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 44:33Chris Ryan?

  It's like the one record that Rafe Finds His Character has.

• 44:36Sean Fennessey?

  It's really cool what they do with it.

• 44:37Bill Simmons?

  It would have been funny if Friedkin was like, there's this guy Morrissey I've been fascinated by. I think he can do all the music for To Live and Die in L.A. Just would have gone completely different.

• 44:46Sean Fennessey?

  Would have been a little sadder.

• 44:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it would have been a different vibe.

• 44:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I mean, there's a couple others that I think maybe, I think The Fix.

• 44:54Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:54Bill Simmons?

  Maybe could have done a ver- I don't think it would have worked as well as Wang Chung.

• 44:58Chris Ryan?

  In the research, like the alternative, the person that they first approached for this?

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  Was it Miles Davis, right?

• 45:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that made sense.

• 45:04Chris Ryan?

  And he's on the hot spot, I don't know if it's before or after this.

• 45:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think maybe right before.

• 45:08Chris Ryan?

  Okay, and so he's like, and that's a completely different film if Miles Davis is blowing on like all this stuff.

• 45:14Sean Fennessey?

  And the movie does still have basically Chicago blues, which a lot of Friedkin movies have.

• 45:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Sean Fennessey?

  There's still like some like cops in a bar stuff.

• 45:22Bill Simmons?

  It's the perfect pick, though. Like, if he'd gone to Howard Jones, Howard Jones was like a little more like, I don't want to say campy, but more romantic.

• 45:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 45:31Bill Simmons?

  Um, but if he'd gone to Duran Duran, I feel like it would have been too big. The Cure would have been, the mood wouldn't have been right.

• 45:37Chris Ryan?

  Or if it had been like Danny Elfman's Midnight Run score, it would have been too like bar bandy.

• 45:41Sean Fennessey?

  I was gonna say Oingo Boingo would have been possible. Um.

• 45:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like almost too happy. There's something about Wang Chung where it's happy, but it's also there's something deeper and sinister underneath it.

• 45:52Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I love the Midnight Run score, it's, but it is.

• 45:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, Midnight Run's great.

• 45:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Bill Simmons?

  Um, and then we mentioned Los Angeles.

• 45:58Sean Fennessey?

  CR month.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  Grimy L.A. movies. This, Den of Thieves.

• 46:05Chris Ryan?

  Repo Man.

• 46:06Bill Simmons?

  Repo Man, Terminator One.

• 46:07Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:08Bill Simmons?

  Training Day, the first Fast and Furious, and Fast Four a little bit too. You guys always laugh at Fast and Furious. You just laugh, you say you're a man of the people. What about all the Fast and Furious lovers?

• 46:20Chris Ryan?

  I'm sure they're out there. I, and I welcome them. I welcome the CR months.

• 46:23Sean Fennessey?

  They've received 10 films.

• 46:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Sean Fennessey?

  They got 10 movies. They did great.

• 46:27Bill Simmons?

  Anybody else you would have in the L.A.?

• 46:29Chris Ryan?

  Body Double?

• 46:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Chris Ryan?

  Collateral?

• 46:32Bill Simmons?

  Body Double's kinda happier, though. It's, it's like the.

• 46:35Sean Fennessey?

  No, except when that girl's getting drilled.

• 46:37Chris Ryan?

  That's not fucked up, L.A.

• 46:38Bill Simmons?

  It's like the wealthier era of L.A., though. I wouldn't say it's grimy.

• 46:41Chris Ryan?

  Would you say collateral is underground, K-Town, it's?

• 46:46Sean Fennessey?

  We're in my double feature corner here.

• 46:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's, it's close.

• 46:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Bill Simmons?

  It's close.

• 46:52Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, there are plenty of, you know, forties and fifties LA.

• 46:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of mine. Yeah, some of the people throw in Chinatown.

• 47:00Chris Ryan?

  What's the one that Maxine's based off of or like take is drawn from?

• 47:05Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, uh, the Wings Howser movie.

• 47:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, uh, oh.

• 47:10Sean Fennessey?

  Shoot.

• 47:10Chris Ryan?

  Not Maniac.

• 47:11Bill Simmons?

  Angel?

• 47:12Sean Fennessey?

  No, not Angel.

• 47:13Bill Simmons?

  I know the wing has a movie.

• 47:14Sean Fennessey?

  Angel is definitely also has some, um, is in is in Maxine as well.

• 47:21Bill Simmons?

  I like Wings Howser. Uh, while you look this up, Mount Rushmore of car chases?

• 47:27Chris Ryan?

  Bullet, French Connection, this.

• 47:31Bill Simmons?

  Ronin?

• 47:32Chris Ryan?

  Ronin.

• 47:33Bill Simmons?

  That's what I had for the four, yeah. It's a pretty unassailable list, right?

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  No, Fast and Furious. Are you fucking with them or is it?

• 47:40Bill Simmons?

  I did think about it. I think I don't. I think for the for most people, because the Fast and Furious movies all kind of blend into each other. You're just talking about like a relatively normal, whatever movie that then all of a sudden there's an just added control car chase in the movie.

• 47:55Chris Ryan?

  I will say.

• 47:56Bill Simmons?

  I think those are the four.

• 47:57Chris Ryan?

  Contemporary movies, it's not long enough probably to qualify for Mount Rushmore, but I think One Battles Car Chase is pretty incredible.

• 48:04Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 48:05Bill Simmons?

  Friedkin had a crazy quote, I won't read the whole thing, but it was basically talking about he can't believe he did this car chase. And he was he was talking about some, oh, he's talking about the movie Taken. It was one of the interviews I read and he was saying he really liked Taken. He thought Taken was good. So, welcome aboard, William Friedkin, even though you're dead. It's just really nice to hear another Taken fan out there. But he was saying what they did with it, there was more CGI and he's like, we didn't have that back then. We had to like put people's lives in danger.

• 48:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:37Bill Simmons?

  To make this stuff and he's like, I was young and stupid and I didn't really, you know, realize like, like multiple people could have died and these car chases we're making, but I was like, go, go, let's push the envelope, let's push the envelope. And now that I'm older, I kind of can't believe I didn't do it that way. I did it that way. Um, but that was interesting.

• 48:57Chris Ryan?

  I appreciate his sacrifice and the risks he's.

• 48:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't, I don't, cause when we watch movies now, we're like, these guys aren't actually in danger. I think they really were in danger.

• 49:05Chris Ryan?

  Peter's drove through a lot of the car chases.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think especially in the French Connection, it's incredibly dangerous what they did.

• 49:11Bill Simmons?

  They're going like 90 miles an hour.

• 49:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that one, this one is a little bit more controlled because they were able to shut down the highways. And then the productions take over the highways. So it's a little different. But if people have not read the Friedkin connection, it is one of the very best director autobiographies. It is amazing. You can hear his voice as you are reading and tell the stories. And he's a I don't give a fuck director, so he tells really great stories about this stuff. But he did a lot of dangerous stuff. I mean, Sorcerer, if we ever do that episode, there's a lot.

• 49:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Sean Fennessey?

  That is was insanely dangerous.

• 49:40Bill Simmons?

  Could be doing it next week if CR month hadn't let us down.

• 49:43Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I, I, we, we, once we open it up to the people, you can't really, can't really complain about.

• 49:48Bill Simmons?

  I really, oh, you guys turned me on to Sorcerer somehow, and, and it was never on my bingo card for years and years.

• 49:53Chris Ryan?

  I think it's another movie, though, that got incredible with its, with its DVD release.

• 49:58Sean Fennessey?

  Definitely. But you know, we talked about it on Star Wars. It was like, it came out two weeks after Star Wars. So it kind of like culturally got pushed aside.

• 50:05Bill Simmons?

  Um, the car chase thing.

• 50:10Bill Simmons?

  We're just probably never going to have another one because nobody would ever do it this way. And I actually feel like that Mount Rushmore could stay. It's one of those rare ones. We're in basketball, you never know, but I think with car chases, I don't see how you challenge it.

• 50:22Chris Ryan?

  Two from the Bourne movies that I would throw in there, the first, the, the one in the mini from the first one and.

• 50:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, The Last Mission Impossible had a great one, too.

• 50:29Sean Fennessey?

  The one in Rome.

• 50:30Bill Simmons?

  Or that, or the Fallout one, whatever the one from two movies ago.

• 50:33Sean Fennessey?

  Number seven has one in Rome, which is incredible.

• 50:36Bill Simmons?

  That one's great.

• 50:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Uh, I, I think it's really hard to crack in. I think one battle gets in the conversation because what it did, we just never seen before. It was like, and it was in a new terrain and the way that even just the camera moving up and down, we'd not really seen that specifically. I guess a little bit in Bullet with the car chases in San Francisco, but it was different in that way. It's just hard to iterate on because, I mean, Friedkin has two of the four best ever, like forever. And that's, it's hard to displace either of those.

• 51:00Bill Simmons?

  And he has the best fisting scene.

• 51:03Chris Ryan?

  He does.

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  Cruising.

• 51:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 51:04Bill Simmons?

  I think that he does get a lot of credit for that.

• 51:06Sean Fennessey?

  Did you bring your handkerchief today?

• 51:09Bill Simmons?

  His Christmas wearing yellow today.

• 51:12Bill Simmons?

  That's the ass he heard about every movie starts. Six million dollar budget made seventeen million. Hundred and sixteen minutes, Craig.

• 51:21Bill Simmons?

  Not bad. Five, ten minutes, maybe. You could have shortened it. Could have gone one ten? Yeah. So it's a plus sixteen. You think plus ten, you're a good one? Yeah. Okay.

• 51:31Sean Fennessey?

  I need ten more minutes of Jane leaves, so I need to extend the time.

• 51:34Chris Ryan?

  Way more interpretive dance.

• 51:36Bill Simmons?

  Roger Ebert, four stars. Called The Car Chase, an amazing sequence. The rest of the movie is also first rate. The direction is the key. Friedkin has made some good movies, put some imprentises in some bad ones. Cruising, deal of the century.

• 51:55Bill Simmons?

  Come on, Raj.

• 51:56Chris Ryan?

  Did Raj ever revisit Cruising?

• 51:58Bill Simmons?

  Probably. Turncoat.

• 52:02Bill Simmons?

  But he says this is his comeback, showing the depth and skill of the early pictures. You agree with that, Sean?

• 52:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's definitely a back to basics movie with him and the reason why he strips it down so much is so that he can control more of the movie and it's not a very expensive movie at a time when a lot of cop movies are getting very expensive. But I liked one other thing that Raj wrote, which is something that I will echo. I like movies that teach me about something, movies that have researched their subject and contain a lot of information casually contained in between the big dramatic scenes. This is technically in my what do you like about movies thing, you know, where it's like, yeah, you're in a world of counterfeiting that is so specific and focused and interesting, the way that he shoots it and shows the master's character going about it, but it doesn't have him sit down and be like, here's how I counterfeit money.

• 52:52Sean Fennessey?

  Like, that never happens. He doesn't really talk through his process. It just shows it to us.

• 52:56Chris Ryan?

  In incredibly cool way with Wang motherfucking Chung playing and it was so legitimate that fake money from the set of the movie got into circulation.

• 53:05Sean Fennessey?

  It's a crazy stat.

• 53:08Bill Simmons?

  We're going to the categories.

• 53:09Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 53:11Bill Simmons?

  Most rewatchable scene. I have opening credits and Wang Chung right into Peterson Hotel Chase.

• 53:20Bill Simmons?

  Guy was doing it for Islam.

• 53:24Bill Simmons?

  Culminating in, I'm getting too old for this shit.

• 53:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, now predates Lethal Weapon.

• 53:28Sean Fennessey?

  One year before Lethal Weapon.

• 53:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Sean Fennessey?

  Come on.

• 53:32Bill Simmons?

  Two years, right? Eighty-seven Lethal Weapon or eighty-six?

• 53:35Sean Fennessey?

  Two years.

• 53:36Chris Ryan?

  Two years, yeah. And we get a brief off-camera Ronnie Reagan. Could've gotten him, could've gotten him in the card game.

• 53:44Sean Fennessey?

  Very rare thing in a movie like this to use a real sitting president and you'd make his, make him a character in the movie.

• 53:52Bill Simmons?

  Opening credits into the art burning and the bungee jump.

• 53:57Bill Simmons?

  This whole stretch.

• 54:01Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down, this 4K is so fucking good.

• 54:07Bill Simmons?

  Peterson did the jump for real?

• 54:09Chris Ryan?

  He did. In jeans and a vest and chucks? He did.

• 54:12Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, I don't, this could almost be a new category. The, eh, we sure, this is safe enough for our lead actor? Cause it was just the one strap on his right leg?

• 54:24Chris Ryan?

  Bungee jumping, they're calling it base jumping.

• 54:27Bill Simmons?

  Is it base jumping, just one leg? I don't know, that made me nervous just watching it.

• 54:33Chris Ryan?

  A bunch of drunk cops, like who's measuring the wire there? Like who's doing the, the safety checks?

• 54:37Sean Fennessey?

  I heard Fink say they used a new piece of equipment to shoot it, like a new crane, um, which is now kind of standard operating. And so I think there was a lot of time spent on making sure that this was safe, but if this was Eddie Murphy, I don't think he'd be doing the jump for real.

• 54:53Chris Ryan?

  No. Base jumping now means you have a parachute.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Cops in a bar, I've said it before, I've said it, I'll say it again, I'll continue to say it. Something about the eighties and the early nineties, when cops all got together in a bar, it just seemed like the most fun place on the earth.

• 55:09Chris Ryan?

  Those guys are all getting blackout and then driving home. It's one of the best, it's like eleven in the morning.

• 55:14Bill Simmons?

  What's going on, brother?

• 55:17Sean Fennessey?

  This is literally how I was raised.

• 55:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Sean Fennessey?

  In bars, my dad was there.

• 55:21Bill Simmons?

  Great. And two guys are probably gonna get mad at each other at some point during the night, but it's fine and somebody's gonna have to be walked out.

• 55:27Chris Ryan?

  When they stumble out of the bar and it's still the afternoon, I noticed this time that the sign on the bar says bird sanctuary.

• 55:35Sean Fennessey?

  My dad, when he was a younger cop, was in a social club called The Raccoons. And they were just like, you know, 10 cops who just like to drink a lot. But they had like a whole ornate world that they had created around the raccoons.

• 55:50Chris Ryan?

  Like Fidelio or?

• 55:52Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I didn't see any masks in the home, but you know, they had a lifestyle.

• 55:57Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 55:59Bill Simmons?

  The counterfeit money scene.

• 56:02Bill Simmons?

  Watching someone make money from scratch with Wang Chung music blasting is really all I need in life. What a great three minutes.

• 56:12Chris Ryan?

  It's unreal.

• 56:13Bill Simmons?

  I agree with what Ebert said too.

• 56:15Chris Ryan?

  Blowing on the, on the plates, you know, to reveal them.

• 56:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we should, we should just have that rolling at the Sycamore Studio like at all times, you know?

• 56:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:25Sean Fennessey?

  When you're, when you, there's a TV on, it's just only showing that sequence and also the Peterson sex scene.

• 56:29Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring that up to Jeff Chow tomorrow.

• 56:32Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, great.

• 56:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:33Bill Simmons?

  I initially had that as my Floyd Gondoli before settling on something else, but I love watching

• 56:42Bill Simmons?

  somebody do something I don't understand how it's done and it actually seems realistic. Like as he's making it, it's like, oh shit, oh now he's doing the paint.

• 56:51Chris Ryan?

  When he's mixing up the paint.

• 56:51Bill Simmons?

  I could have watched it for, honestly, I could have watched it for the 25 minutes.

• 56:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:55Bill Simmons?

  I was so interested in how they did it. I was like, oh, now he's gonna dry it.

• 56:58Sean Fennessey?

  It's the coolest artist at work.

• 57:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Bill Simmons?

  And Defoe is great too at just seeming like he's been doing it nonstop for the last 10 years, like just effortlessly.

• 57:07Sean Fennessey?

  Totally.

• 57:09Bill Simmons?

  Torturo gets chased down in LAX. Craig mentioned the Peterson just looking, this was his combine reel.

• 57:16Chris Ryan?

  This is also, that shot specifically is essentially like stolen footage. LAX is like, do not.

• 57:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they got mad.

• 57:22Chris Ryan?

  Run up on the escalator or like the people mover.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:25Chris Ryan?

  They're like, no, no, we won't.

• 57:28Bill Simmons?

  Are you nostalgic for the days where somebody could just run through a metal detector?

• 57:32Chris Ryan?

  I am nostalgic for the idea, and this goes basically up to 2001, obviously, but like the idea of going to the airport and being like, I'm gonna buy a ticket to DC today. You know what I mean? They're like 40 bucks. And it goes like all the way through Kicking and Screaming where he runs in and he's like, I wanna go to Prague.

• 57:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:49Chris Ryan?

  But I'm probably glad that we have some safeguards, you know?

• 57:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think it's safe to say. I'm nostalgic for a time when it was reasonable that men would run through them in movies.

• 58:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 58:00Sean Fennessey?

  Now if that happened, you'd be like, that would never happen.

• 58:02Bill Simmons?

  If someone ran through an airport now, they would just be gunned down.

• 58:05Sean Fennessey?

  They would.

• 58:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  Tortura almost gets killed in prison, I have as a rewatchable scene.

• 58:11Chris Ryan?

  I knew you did.

• 58:12Bill Simmons?

  There's a whole other movie that I would have signed up for.

• 58:14Sean Fennessey?

  The Shotcaller prequel.

• 58:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, him in prison for three months, navigating people trying to come after him.

• 58:19Chris Ryan?

  Do you think Cody should have known, like, as those guys are walking across the yard, he's like, who are they going for? Somebody getting hit? Who's getting hit, man? Everyone's clearing out around him. Hey, it's you!

• 58:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we've seen so many prison movies where like, dude, get up, start running.

• 58:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:37Bill Simmons?

  The fight scene with Defoe and, uh, his, who, what was the name of his?

• 58:41Chris Ryan?

  Max Waxman.

• 58:42Sean Fennessey?

  Waxman.

• 58:42Bill Simmons?

  No, the henchman.

• 58:44Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 58:45Bill Simmons?

  Defoe's henchman.

• 58:45Sean Fennessey?

  The, the black guy.

• 58:47Bill Simmons?

  Him fighting the three black guys.

• 58:48Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Jeff?

• 58:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 58:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Jeff.

• 58:50Bill Simmons?

  I think they, him and his, but it was a two on three.

• 58:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Bill Simmons?

  I think they're plus, when they had the, uh, FanDuel odds underneath the screen at the fight spot start, I think they're like plus 490? It's like, no way, these guys are getting out of this and they, they turn it around.

• 59:03Chris Ryan?

  Not the Miami Heat again!

• 59:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:07Bill Simmons?

  Amtrak into the shooting, into the chase scene, uh, just 10 out of 10 on how'd you do this as you're watching.

• 59:13Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:14Bill Simmons?

  Like, how'd you guys do this?

• 59:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Bill Simmons?

  Tough beat for the, uh, FBI undercover FBI agent with fake diamonds.

• 59:21Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:21Bill Simmons?

  Just getting, uh, has his gun down with his pants down around his, uh, ankles. Not how I'd wanna go.

• 59:27Chris Ryan?

  Nope.

• 59:29Bill Simmons?

  Chance raids Tortura. I like that shot when they're on the opposite sides of the walls, so good.

• 59:35Sean Fennessey?

  That's my great shot, Cordo.

• 59:36Bill Simmons?

  It's great. Chance gets killed.

• 59:42Bill Simmons?

  Craig, have you seen this movie before?

• 59:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 59:44Bill Simmons?

  Were you expecting that one?

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Not at all. Something you can only do if it's probably not a star, right?

• 59:48Chris Ryan?

  And 1985.

• 59:49Speaker 03

  Richard Gere, you can't shoot Richard Gere in the face with a shotgun.

• 59:52Bill Simmons?

  No. It's still shocking to watch.

• 59:55Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it was shocking to the, to the studio. They were like, you better go back and.

• 59:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they shot a fake. You could find it online, an alternate ending.

• 1:00:02Chris Ryan?

  So atrocious.

• 1:00:04Bill Simmons?

  I think the only time an alternate ending actually ended up being the end of the movie is Fatal Attraction, that I can remember out of like ones we've done on this podcast. Where the studio's like, no, we're fucking redoing that. And Ann Archer's gonna kill Glenn Close in the bathroom, and that's how we're ending this movie, motherfuckers.

• 1:00:21Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sure there's some other examples I can't think of off the top of my head, though, where they recut it, and that's what we got.

• 1:00:26Bill Simmons?

  I'm just saying, for the episodes we've done.

• 1:00:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Bill Simmons?

  I think that's the only one I can remember where they literally redid it. Uh, final scene for rewatchable. You're working for me now.

• 1:00:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. He's got sunglasses on.

• 1:00:40Bill Simmons?

  Paco goes dark.

• 1:00:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Sean Fennessey?

  I would add two more.

• 1:00:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, let's hear it.

• 1:00:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think the murder of Max Waxman.

• 1:00:49Chris Ryan?

  Getting shot in dick.

• 1:00:50Sean Fennessey?

  When he gets shot in the dick, and then Defoe says, "Your taste is in your ass." So I don't, I don't totally know what that means.

• 1:00:57Chris Ryan?

  It's like 18th century Cameroonian.

• 1:01:00Sean Fennessey?

  And then, very shortly thereafter, the meetup at the gym, when they're all like getting changed.

• 1:01:05Chris Ryan?

  And they're nude?

• 1:01:06Sean Fennessey?

  And Willie Peterson's like, "Yeah, I've got a friend down in Hollywood, goes by the name of Donald Duck."

• 1:01:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I have a lot to say about this scene.

• 1:01:14Sean Fennessey?

  Trying to change the conversation.

• 1:01:16Bill Simmons?

  Why are they changing clothes, too?

• 1:01:18Chris Ryan?

  Well, it's like, the 1980s, the guys are.

• 1:01:20Bill Simmons?

  What gym is this? Just show up with the workout clothes on.

• 1:01:23Chris Ryan?

  That's not how I think it went in the 80s.

• 1:01:25Sean Fennessey?

  You're on your way to a workout, and you're wearing adult clothes, right?

• 1:01:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but I'm not gonna get fully nude and then, like, with like.

• 1:01:32Sean Fennessey?

  You should get nude right here.

• 1:01:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Start it up.

• 1:01:35Chris Ryan?

  I, I think, I think locker room, like, behaviors have changed.

• 1:01:40Bill Simmons?

  That may be the most nineteen eighty-five thing about this movie, which we're doing in a second. What do you have for most rewatchable scenes?

• 1:01:45Chris Ryan?

  Uh, the only other thing I wanted to add was, um.

• 1:01:49Bill Simmons?

  Hanging dog?

• 1:01:50Chris Ryan?

  No, it's, it's right after the hanging dog.

• 1:01:52Sean Fennessey?

  This is Floyd Gandoli.

• 1:01:53Chris Ryan?

  When she's just like, she's trying to peddle all this information to him and he's like, you know, Uncle Sam doesn't give a shit about your expenses. If you want bread, fuck a baker. And.

• 1:02:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Chris Ryan?

  Their whole conversation where she's just like, you know, what would you do if I stopped giving information to you? And he's just like, I'd revoke your parole. And walks out like, it's just, it's a great moment, character moment between those two.

• 1:02:15Bill Simmons?

  Well, how about when she's like, yeah, my kid's coming up from Vegas and he's like, cool.

• 1:02:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Bill Simmons?

  Can you get that information for me?

• 1:02:21Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you got a kid?

• 1:02:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Chris Ryan?

  Seems like a stable life for him.

• 1:02:25Sean Fennessey?

  He's not a super nice guy, Chance.

• 1:02:26Chris Ryan?

  The chase. It starts with Peterson at the bar drinking a high life and a shot. Then it cuts to the train going across, you know, the desert part of California, like a Sergio Leone movie, and just builds and builds and builds from Union Station on.

• 1:02:43Sean Fennessey?

  It's one of the craziest scenes in movie history. He has, they like, they shut down a highway over a weekend in Los Angeles. Imagine if just the one-ten or the seven-ten was just shut down for a week. They're like, sorry, William Friedkin's shooting a movie across five miles of road.

• 1:02:56Chris Ryan?

  And we got nine hundred cars there, like extras.

• 1:02:58Sean Fennessey?

  And the cars are going in the opposite direction.

• 1:03:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:02Sean Fennessey?

  So it's like an optical illusion when you're watching the movie. Look, the cars on the left are going the wrong way and the cars on the right are going the wrong way. And he only did that to make you confused as an audience member. Cause it, the whole sequence is so disorienting. That's a wild choice in the movie. It's such a crazy chase.

• 1:03:18Bill Simmons?

  I have the chase number one, too. It's an unbelievable seven minutes. And I love Peterson's acting in it, too.

• 1:03:24Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. He's so exciting.

• 1:03:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, and they do a good job of establishing from the beginning, the first time we basically see him, other than the secret service thing. First of all, when he's on the roof, he's really close to the edge of the roof. Like for real, I don't, I think it's like, it's probably two feet away from falling to his death. He doesn't care. And then the next time we see him after that, he's bungee jumping. So you're just like, oh, this guy's a fucking maniac. Okay. We've established that. Uh, what's the most nineteen eighty-five thing about this movie? LAX, definitely. There's the, when they finally finished the chase and the three guys are in the background and the one guy has his radio on his shoulder.

• 1:04:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:04:02Bill Simmons?

  That's just like pure eighty-five.

• 1:04:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Bill Simmons?

  The gym workout machines. They fly Trans World Airlines.

• 1:04:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Bill Simmons?

  And Continental, you can see in the background next to it, Bad Times For All there. Uh, being called a Miami Vice ripoff, Wang fucking Chung.

• 1:04:19Bill Simmons?

  And then I have one more.

• 1:04:20Chris Ryan?

  I have one more that I bet is the same as you.

• 1:04:22Bill Simmons?

  What is it?

• 1:04:23Chris Ryan?

  It's Chance getting out of the car chase, coming back to Ruth's house and talking immediately about Quentin Daly and Orlando Woolridge, sir.

• 1:04:30Bill Simmons?

  Uh, well, that, I have that coming up. Hold that thought.

• 1:04:34Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:04:34Sean Fennessey?

  I do as well. Uh, I mean, counterfeiting cash? Hmm. That's just in nineteen eighty-five.

• 1:04:40Bill Simmons?

  Now we just have fake.

• 1:04:41Chris Ryan?

  I wonder how long that went for. I did not do a lot of counterfeiting research, admittedly. And I.

• 1:04:46Sean Fennessey?

  You imagine this is around the peak, right? Because the technology has gotten so strong.

• 1:04:50Chris Ryan?

  Where they put like the, like a little band in your money that was just like now easily verified.

• 1:04:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's now printings on it.

• 1:04:57Bill Simmons?

  Things we just got better at stopping.

• 1:04:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:04:59Bill Simmons?

  Uh, my last thing, there's some stealth gay scenes in this movie, gay moments, that are just very nineteen eighty-five.

• 1:05:07Sean Fennessey?

  You mean like homo erotic or?

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  Well, for instance, his girlfriend, they have, she's got her dance performance.

• 1:05:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Bill Simmons?

  And then Defoe goes and goes to kiss her. And it looks like he's kissing a man the way they film it.

• 1:05:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Bill Simmons?

  And I almost wonder if it was a male actor and they flipped it. Um, there's that other scene when he stands right with Peterson, he's like, you got a package for me. And he like grabs it, but it's just fit in with how weird the eighties were with that.

• 1:05:35Sean Fennessey?

  Even just the use of Kabuki dance, which is like this ancient Japanese style where a lot of men who are performing female characters. Like, I think he's very purposely kind of trying to blend all this stuff up.

• 1:05:46Chris Ryan?

  Point earlier where it's like, whoa, the nudity. It's like, there's a lot of male nudity in this movie as well.

• 1:05:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, that leads us to the Floyd Gondoli Butter in My Ass, Lollipops in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy. You mentioned the Quentin Daly MJ thing. I, uh, it turns out I really enjoy realistically horrible sports opinions and neo noir movie thrillers.

• 1:06:07Sean Fennessey?

  Excellent.

• 1:06:08Bill Simmons?

  Um, this Quentin Daly take is just insane.

• 1:06:11Chris Ryan?

  Unfucking believable. First of all, it's never mentioned. How deep do you want to go right now?

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  I did the deepest.

• 1:06:16Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:06:19Chris Ryan?

  Get ready.

• 1:06:19Sean Fennessey?

  I'm listening.

• 1:06:20Chris Ryan?

  First of all, it's never mentioned that Chance is from Chicago. He's obviously from Chicago. I have an unanswerable question about this.

• 1:06:26Bill Simmons?

  Except he's wearing a Mike Webster Steelers jersey in the first time we see him.

• 1:06:30Chris Ryan?

  I wear like lots of different hats. I think it might've just been like in 1985, he had a cool jersey and he was wearing it all the time, but you're right.

• 1:06:36Bill Simmons?

  But why Mike Webster?

• 1:06:37Chris Ryan?

  I don't know, man.

• 1:06:37Bill Simmons?

  Why wouldn't it be like Terry Bradshaw or Mean Joe Green?

• 1:06:40Chris Ryan?

  Maybe he looks.

• 1:06:41Bill Simmons?

  I'd end up with the, like, you know who I love? The center on the Steelers.

• 1:06:46Bill Simmons?

  This is weird.

• 1:06:47Chris Ryan?

  I don't know.

• 1:06:49Chris Ryan?

  I found the game that he's talking about.

• 1:06:51Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty easy.

• 1:06:53Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I had to look on Basketball Reference for a minute.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, well, Quentin Daly had one awesome game and it was right as they were filming this movie. We know Friedkin.

• 1:07:00Sean Fennessey?

  Huge NBA guy.

• 1:07:01Bill Simmons?

  Maniac NBA guy who almost like bought, what was the team he almost bought?

• 1:07:04Sean Fennessey?

  The Celtics, wasn't it the Celtics?

• 1:07:06Bill Simmons?

  The Celtics, right. In the late 70s, back when you could buy a sports team for 12 million bucks.

• 1:07:10Chris Ryan?

  Well, here's my, here's my unanswerable question about this, okay? So, Ling, the Fed who's posing as the guy buying diamonds, supposedly arrives at Union Station at 4:45 PM.

• 1:07:26Chris Ryan?

  Call it, what, 90 minutes of the chase and the abduction, right? Chance has to take his car to a body shop because he can't return it to the motor pool. Then he has to get somehow back to Ruth's house where, you gotta call it 9:00 PM, something like that, 10:00 PM? But somehow in that interim time, he has found out the score of the Pacers-Bulls game from October of 1984? And has identified that Quentin Daly is really the number one option on the Bulls, not Michael Jordan? And when would you have gotten the highlights? When would you have seen the box score?

• 1:08:03Bill Simmons?

  I almost feel like it might've been a day later he saw in the paper.

• 1:08:05Sean Fennessey?

  Unfortunately, none of this holds water because at the beginning of the movie, we learn that it is the end of December.

• 1:08:10Chris Ryan?

  Yes, I know that. But like, if we're looking for Quentin Daly 30-point performance, it's from the time they filmed this movie. It is basically William Peterson knew about this game and came in on, on the set that day.

• 1:08:20Bill Simmons?

  I see. My, my take was, I think they wanted some sort of ad lib thing when he shows up with her.

• 1:08:25Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:08:26Bill Simmons?

  Be like, alright, talk about just something stupid. And Friedkin had been excitedly telling people about this Quentin Daly game.

• 1:08:32Sean Fennessey?

  See, I think it's the exact opposite. I think it is. I think it is Friedkin who wrote the screenplay, who is an NBA obsessive, who has a lot of sports takes, who's like, I'm zagging so hard on Jordan.

• 1:08:46Chris Ryan?

  Jordan's overrated.

• 1:08:47Sean Fennessey?

  He's like Quentin Daly who precedes Jordan. Yes. And he's like Quentin Daly was my guy, despite the fact that Quentin Daly, you know.

• 1:08:54Bill Simmons?

  Well, we gotta talk about this too.

• 1:08:56Sean Fennessey?

  You know, was convicted of a heinous assault.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  Quentin Daly was such a, he was such a bad guy that.

• 1:08:59Chris Ryan?

  He was kind of the Richard Chance of the Bulls.

• 1:09:01Bill Simmons?

  I knew he was a bad guy as like a, you know, a fledgling teenager in fucking New England. Like he, he was a, had like this rapist situation in San Francisco. I think it might've been more than one. And it was really controversial that they drafted him.

• 1:09:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Bill Simmons?

  And it was during a time when we didn't have social media or anything. And it was like, huh, should the Bulls be able to put this guy on their team when this happened? And it's really bad. It's like an awful story. Yeah.

• 1:09:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:09:29Bill Simmons?

  People were protesting in the 1980s. Think about that.

• 1:09:32Sean Fennessey?

  But it is almost like an interesting character choice that this scumbag cop, well, like we have to keep remembering, at least like keeping this, this woman in prison, basically to feed him information that he liked Quentin Daly. You know, it's like, it's almost, it's a character trait.

• 1:09:44Bill Simmons?

  Very talented scorer, went to University of San Francisco, which is where he had his situation. And then.

• 1:09:50Chris Ryan?

  Infamous for ordering food to be delivered to him on the bench during a Bulls game.

• 1:09:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I think there might've been some drugs with him too, but it was drugs with most of that team ironically. So yeah, so I wonder like, did Friedkin, maybe he liked the Bulls and maybe he was like, I don't know, why the fuck would we take Jordan? We have Quentin Daly. Like really felt strongly about this.

• 1:10:10Sean Fennessey?

  I think he was, he was more like, I'm writing a movie about scumbags. What's a real scumbag opinion I could put out there in the world in one of these characters?

• 1:10:16Bill Simmons?

  Well, I love it.

• 1:10:17Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it's an idea.

• 1:10:19Chris Ryan?

  You're ascribing a lot of like writerly intent to the, yeah.

• 1:10:22Sean Fennessey?

  Could be wrong. This, that was in my What's Age the Worst.

• 1:10:24Bill Simmons?

  Or he just loved Quentin Daly.

• 1:10:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's possible. It's possible.

• 1:10:27Bill Simmons?

  Maybe he went to a game a year earlier and was like, oh my God, this guy's, he's better than Andrew Tony.

• 1:10:32Chris Ryan?

  Anyway, those Quentin Daly highlights from that Pacers game, the 30-point game were up.

• 1:10:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's on YouTube. Yeah. He was, he was a little Andrew Tony-ish actually with this game. He was like a power two guard. What's Age the Best? It's also probably What's Age the Worst. The Middle East conflict being a key opening scene seems relevant right now.

• 1:10:50Chris Ryan?

  I have that in What's Age the Worst.

• 1:10:52Bill Simmons?

  Making counterfeit money has just aged the best as a viewing experience, as we discussed.

• 1:10:59Bill Simmons?

  Calling people amigo?

• 1:11:01Sean Fennessey?

  Love it.

• 1:11:02Chris Ryan?

  I gotta bring it back.

• 1:11:03Sean Fennessey?

  We should bring it back. Let's do it.

• 1:11:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Sean Fennessey?

  Let's just make it part of our thing.

• 1:11:06Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna start doing this, Kah, when I see you and you come over. Big A, amigo.

• 1:11:10Chris Ryan?

  Let me tell you something, amigo. I'm gonna get Rick Masters.

• 1:11:14Bill Simmons?

  I have a few. I have actually surprisingly many more, but what'd you have?

• 1:11:18Chris Ryan?

  Uh, so when William Peterson introduces himself as Mr. Jessup to, uh, to Rick Masters, he turns to Pankow and he goes, and this is my associate, Dr. George Victor.

• 1:11:35Chris Ryan?

  And I just, it's never commented on again, but it's like, doctor of what? What if Rick Masters had been like, doctor, I have this weird bowl. Can you take a look at it? Like, did they really think that through?

• 1:11:45Bill Simmons?

  He would just say, it's an honorary doctorate I got in college.

• 1:11:49Chris Ryan?

  Sure, but like, that would have been like one extra layer of the lie that you didn't need.

• 1:11:53Bill Simmons?

  I'm a prostate doctor.

• 1:11:54Chris Ryan?

  Um, I love the remnants of the 1960s that kind of thread through this movie, especially Waxman being a hip, ex hippie lawyer. And in the, Pankow talks about this in interviews, but you can kind of get the sense from all these 1980s cops that they were Vietnam veterans.

• 1:12:10Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:10Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and there's just the kind of, the sort of waste of the 60s washing up in LA and the 80s.

• 1:12:16Sean Fennessey?

  Definitely his character, his partner who gets killed is meant to be one of those guys. Like a roughneck, basically.

• 1:12:20Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely. Um, and I love Rick being a bisexual fine artist who just has like a guy with a bomber jacket killing people as a psychic. That guy Jack is just like always spitting tobacco.

• 1:12:33Sean Fennessey?

  Jack Horr, legendary LAPD detective.

• 1:12:37Bill Simmons?

  You have any Woodstage's best?

• 1:12:39Sean Fennessey?

  Um, yeah, sort of related to that, being able to pretend to be a businessman and having the contents of your glove box be enough proof. The fact that they're like, I don't know about this guy. So his girlfriend goes and looks at his glove box. I'm like, I'm seeing some receipts here, you know?

• 1:12:50Chris Ryan?

  From the Cayman.

• 1:12:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Bill Simmons?

  He's not tan enough.

• 1:12:52Sean Fennessey?

  That's really good. Uh, calling money paper?

• 1:12:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:56Sean Fennessey?

  Which is something that obviously got very popularized in the last 20 years. And then just Willem Dafoe as a villain. I just feel like he's become one of the great villains the last 50 years.

• 1:13:04Chris Ryan?

  I also had, um, Dean Stockwell playing a defense attorney who's having a beer, uh, on his lunch break during a trial.

• 1:13:13Chris Ryan?

  Grimes in general is just an awesome character.

• 1:13:15Bill Simmons?

  Dean Stockwell also in Legend of Billie Jean this year as the Senator.

• 1:13:19Chris Ryan?

  And in Paris, Texas, yeah.

• 1:13:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Sean Fennessey?

  And soon to be married to the mob, completing his comeback and getting an Academy Award nomination.

• 1:13:25Chris Ryan?

  Uh, yeah, so those are some of mine.

• 1:13:27Bill Simmons?

  I also have bungee jumping. I have Jane Leaves with an underrated hot girl run here of To Live and Die in L.A. Marla the Virgin from Seinfeld, who ends up sleeping with J.F.K. Jr. and then Frasier's girlfriend. Always liked her.

• 1:13:44Sean Fennessey?

  This is sort of Floyd Gondoli, sort of like always aging the best, but I enjoy when an insane person in a movie has an artistic hobby.

• 1:13:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Sean Fennessey?

  You know, like Jack Torrance, you know, and his writing. You've got Toni Collette's miniatures in Hereditary. You've got Gary Oldman being really into Beethoven and the Professional. Like, usually that's like a great little character trait where they can like really appreciate fine art, but they are insane.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's a good one. That's good. We'll put that in our AI movie.

• 1:14:14Sean Fennessey?

  There's no AI movie.

• 1:14:18Bill Simmons?

  I like when villains refer to themselves as the third person.

• 1:14:22Chris Ryan?

  Rick Masters doesn't do that, man.

• 1:14:25Bill Simmons?

  Everyone knows Rick Masters won't do a deal without upfront money. It's like, you're Rick Masters. You say that about your, what?

• 1:14:36Bill Simmons?

  I also wrote down 80s movie lawyers dressed like Dean Stockwell, who always had a cocktail and looked like they were about to play tennis. There was, this was a weird era for the perception of lawyers was like between tennis games. They were just gonna go to trial.

• 1:14:52Chris Ryan?

  They just have like a Mercedes convertible.

• 1:14:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:54Sean Fennessey?

  Right, you have like a Lacoste polo, but with a suit.

• 1:14:58Bill Simmons?

  The decision to show Peterson, but not the body in the dumpster was really good. When he opens the thing and his face changes, I just thought that was a really good shot.

• 1:15:07Sean Fennessey?

  I love how he discovers it where he sees the hole, like the bullet hole in the bottom of the dumpster too. That's really good.

• 1:15:13Bill Simmons?

  I like having a witness out of jail and then losing the witness is just a great movie thing. It's like, oh my God, he lost him.

• 1:15:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Bill Simmons?

  What are we gonna do?

• 1:15:22Chris Ryan?

  We shouldn't have gone to the hospital. That was just a really dumb move.

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's best. And then, um.

• 1:15:28Bill Simmons?

  The decision to show, uh, oh, Jimmy, who was too old for this shit, two days to retirement, but he was getting too close. I just feel like this has been ripped off in 30 other movies. I don't know if this was the first.

• 1:15:45Sean Fennessey?

  One Last Job.

• 1:15:46Chris Ryan?

  McBane.

• 1:15:47Bill Simmons?

  This is like ground zero for, he only had two days left.

• 1:15:50Chris Ryan?

  He's got his fucking fishing rod.

• 1:15:53Bill Simmons?

  Uh, this came from an email. Oh shit, I deleted who wrote this.

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  Now I feel bad. All right. I'll give him credit the next time.

• 1:16:01Sean Fennessey?

  It was me, Bill. I wrote the email.

• 1:16:03Bill Simmons?

  Uh, just a reader wanted to point out, he was really excited we're doing the movie, that, uh, when Chance walks in the building to get the judge to sign the writ to get the terror out of prison, and supervis released, he walks into 444 South Flower Street, the same building Neil and his crew walk out of in heat, just prior to the all time greatest shootout scene ever.

• 1:16:22Sean Fennessey?

  Great stuff.

• 1:16:23Chris Ryan?

  Isn't that where the charito part?

• 1:16:25Bill Simmons?

  He really wanted you to know this.

• 1:16:25Chris Ryan?

  That's great.

• 1:16:26Sean Fennessey?

  Downtown.

• 1:16:27Bill Simmons?

  Great shot, Gordo. You had...

• 1:16:29Sean Fennessey?

  So many. Eye through the windshield during the car chase. Unbelievable. Amazing, iconic shit. Um, Defoe looking at his burning painting in the opening of the film.

• 1:16:40Sean Fennessey?

  Peterson bungee jumping, cars driving on the opposite sides of the road. And you already mentioned the Rastafarian dudes with the boombox at the end of the, which is like in the big wide.

• 1:16:47Chris Ryan?

  Crane shot, yeah. Um, I had, uh, the shot when, uh, Chance goes to see Ruth at the topless bar and she's working the door. And it's like all green and all red, and she's leaning back against the counter in the like skin tight dress. Is the hottest anyone's ever looked in the world. Like, they fucking broke the meter on that one. And that scene is apparently like very improvised and they were just like, just fucking explore the studio space. And it's like, if you miss your mark, like it won't make it into the movie, but who cares? And it's so good. I just want to say one other thing about the car chase in regards to the cinematography. Robbie Mueller was like, I don't know how to do this. So, the car chase is shot by Robert Yeoman,

• 1:17:31Chris Ryan?

  who would go on to shoot like all of Wes Anderson's movies.

• 1:17:34Bill Simmons?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:17:35Sean Fennessey?

  And I will add to that, Just Last Night won a Lifetime Achievement Award at the American Society of Cinematographers. Robert Yeoman.

• 1:17:45Bill Simmons?

  I wanted to mention the bridge sprint chase scene because I like sometimes when they go wide.

• 1:17:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  And it just looks like I'm watching your game for 10 seconds. Uh, we'll take one more break and then, uh, we'll do the rest of the categories. This episode is brought to you by Viori. All right, let's talk about a category we appreciate clothes that stay in the rotation. Viori earned that spot. Their core shorts are good for workouts, travel day, weekend, whatever. And the Strato Tech T ridiculously soft. It's the kind of gear you keep reaching for because it's comfortable while still looking put together. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com/rewatchables and discover the versatility of Viori clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Truvia. Sweeteners are like movies. The best ones don't leave an aftertaste.

• 1:18:36Bill Simmons?

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• 1:19:07Bill Simmons?

  Denethys Benihana Awards Scene Sealing Location. Bakersfield counterfeit spot. That wide shot of like, what's going on with that street behind and this warehouse in the middle of nowhere? I just really like that spot.

• 1:19:19Chris Ryan?

  That's, that's the Ringer 4.0 headquarters.

• 1:19:23Bill Simmons?

  Just us.

• 1:19:24Chris Ryan?

  Just outside of Indio, you and me.

• 1:19:25Bill Simmons?

  Washer dryer.

• 1:19:26Chris Ryan?

  I'm in the horse trailer.

• 1:19:29Chris Ryan?

  You got a dryer.

• 1:19:30Bill Simmons?

  Sounds great. That's when things have gone wrong.

• 1:19:32Sean Fennessey?

  I, I feel like rooftop of the Beverly Hilton Hotel is pretty good too.

• 1:19:35Chris Ryan?

  I had the burger place where Chance tells.

• 1:19:38Bill Simmons?

  Oh, great burger place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:40Chris Ryan?

  They're gonna rob Ling and they come out with burgers and then sit in like barber chairs.

• 1:19:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, with like a whole city being, that's also Big Kahuna too.

• 1:19:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:48Bill Simmons?

  Good use of food. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award, we get the opening scene, obviously.

• 1:19:54Chris Ryan?

  I have Dance All Days.

• 1:19:55Bill Simmons?

  Or Dance All Days.

• 1:19:56Sean Fennessey?

  Dance All Days too.

• 1:19:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:57Bill Simmons?

  At Shipwreck Joey's Cabaret.

• 1:20:00Chris Ryan?

  God, look what they took.

• 1:20:00Bill Simmons?

  What's it like there on Wednesdays?

• 1:20:02Chris Ryan?

  It's gone. It's gone. They took it down.

• 1:20:04Sean Fennessey?

  Used to be a special country. Yeah. It used to be a really special country.

• 1:20:09Bill Simmons?

  The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate.

• 1:20:11Sean Fennessey?

  Hold on, hold on.

• 1:20:12Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:20:12Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like you've been interested in, in real estate over the years.

• 1:20:16Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 1:20:16Sean Fennessey?

  And so before we get to this category, like, would you consider buying a piece of property in that area and reopening Shipwreck Joey's?

• 1:20:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, why don't you ever do that?

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  Shipwreck Billy's?

• 1:20:26Chris Ryan?

  Like, you could definitely afford to open a series of nameless dive bars that I would be happy to manage.

• 1:20:32Sean Fennessey?

  Sure. So there's like a show.

• 1:20:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:34Sean Fennessey?

  Like a show with, with performers.

• 1:20:36Bill Simmons?

  I gotta say, that bar seemed great. Good security.

• 1:20:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:38Bill Simmons?

  I thought the stage seemed nice and big.

• 1:20:40Chris Ryan?

  The lighting is awesome.

• 1:20:41Bill Simmons?

  For the girls.

• 1:20:41Sean Fennessey?

  What's the entry fee right now with inflation?

• 1:20:44Chris Ryan?

  A dollar fifty in nineteen eighty-five, it's probably like fifteen bucks now, right?

• 1:20:47Bill Simmons?

  Shipwreck Joey's Cabaret, ever taken a road trip?

• 1:20:49Chris Ryan?

  Where was it?

• 1:20:50Bill Simmons?

  I think Long Beach.

• 1:20:52Chris Ryan?

  Where's that? Oh, Long Beach?

• 1:20:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, round about. Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate. Chance's Malibu House.

• 1:20:59Chris Ryan?

  Way too, what?

• 1:21:01Bill Simmons?

  I have some questions.

• 1:21:02Sean Fennessey?

  Sick.

• 1:21:03Bill Simmons?

  He's like about twelve houses down from the pier. Eighty's much cheaper in Malibu, but you're still looking.

• 1:21:09Chris Ryan?

  Look into this.

• 1:21:09Bill Simmons?

  You're still looking about a mil.

• 1:21:11Chris Ryan?

  Uh, so it's, there, there is a moment in Malibu where the celebs haven't started driving prices up.

• 1:21:18Bill Simmons?

  We're, we're, we're getting close. Madonna has the wedding in eighty-five with Sean Penn. That's kind of a, a tipping point.

• 1:21:26Chris Ryan?

  Is he in the Secret Service though? Is he living in LA? I mean, it, it, it suggests he's skimming, honestly.

• 1:21:33Bill Simmons?

  I, I freeze framed it. Yeah, the skimming, I think, is, is a good thought. I freeze framed it. It was a three-story house. Wasn't like one of those, like, one-story, but, so he might have just been renting, like, one of the floors.

• 1:21:46Sean Fennessey?

  Top floor.

• 1:21:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Bill Simmons?

  Possible. Um, not that far away from Neil McCauley's house.

• 1:21:52Sean Fennessey?

  It's very similar to the place where Hemsworth's character lives in Crime 101.

• 1:21:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:56Sean Fennessey?

  Very similar.

• 1:21:56Chris Ryan?

  But he lives in a series of, like, condos. Like, if I would have bought that. And then, a couple of years later, Martin Riggs is living in a trailer on the beach, I think in Malibu, like in Lethal Weapon. But this is nuts. This guy has, like, a fucking ten million dollar house.

• 1:22:10Bill Simmons?

  We got away with this in the eighties and nineties because we didn't have the internet yet. And people were like, you know, it'd be cool if we had a shot where the character's looking out in the water. And now, now that we know the logistics of LA, it's just, there's no way this guy would be making the drive home on PC. First of all, he would have had a drunk driving accident and crossed the

• 1:22:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:22:28Bill Simmons?

  divider and killed himself and multiple people.

• 1:22:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's another mirroring Michael Mann moment too, where it's like, of course, this guy lives on the water, so he can look out into the ocean and have an existential think on how he's spending his life.

• 1:22:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I mean, he was in a prime spot. Speaking of prime spots, the Sean Fantasy Award for Stealth Homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

• 1:22:48Sean Fennessey?

  I got a fucking doozy.

• 1:22:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:51Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:22:53Sean Fennessey?

  Of Human Bondage from 1934 is playing on the television, being watched by John Turturro and Jacqueline Giraud in that sequence. That's what the movie that you hear.

• 1:23:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:01Sean Fennessey?

  When, when Chance shows up. So it's about a young man played by Leslie Howard, who finds himself attached to a cold, unfeeling waitress, played by a woman who will ultimately destroy them both. This is Betty Davis's fifth film. It's her first Academy Award nomination, where on the eve of the Oscars, she got this nomination via write-in vote. So this movie is important for a few reasons. One, this is the year Frank Capra's It Happened One Night, which is one of only three movies to win all five of the top five awards. Do you know the other two movies?

• 1:23:34Bill Simmons?

  Silence of the Lambs?

• 1:23:35Sean Fennessey?

  Silence of the Lambs is one.

• 1:23:36Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I know this. We just, we did this on rewatchables. But what was it?

• 1:23:40Sean Fennessey?

  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

• 1:23:42Bill Simmons?

  God damn it.

• 1:23:42Sean Fennessey?

  That's picture, director, actor, actress, and screenplay. This was the first of only-

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  Sinners is gonna take it. We haven't, we're taping after the Oscars. Sinners will be the fourth.

• 1:23:51Sean Fennessey?

  Probably not, because it's not nominated for Best Actress.

• 1:23:53Bill Simmons?

  Still gonna be the fourth.

• 1:23:54Sean Fennessey?

  This was the first of only two years in which write-in candidates were permitted, a response to the controversy surrounding the snub of Betty Davis in, for Of Human Bondage. She was snubbed, and then they created a write-in ballot, and she got written in. So because of that, Claudette Colbert, who was the star of It Happened One Night, thought because Betty Davis got this incredible outpouring for her write-in ballot, that there was no chance that she was gonna win the Oscar. So she gets on a train to go to New York the night of the Oscars, and just before the train takes off, they announce her name at the Academy Awards, she runs back to the award show, accepts her award later on in the show, and then goes back, and the train holds for her, and she, she gets on the train at the end of the night and goes to New York.

• 1:24:33Bill Simmons?

  I thought you were gonna say she drove the wrong way down the 110.

• 1:24:35Sean Fennessey?

  No. Anyway, of human bondage, it matters. That's fucking Friedkin.

• 1:24:41Bill Simmons?

  So you don't think Turturro's character would have been watching a 1934 artsy movie?

• 1:24:46Sean Fennessey?

  I did like. Well, we know his girlfriend is an actress.

• 1:24:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Sean Fennessey?

  So she's watching Betty Davis in her breakout role.

• 1:24:52Bill Simmons?

  I love those stories about when nobody cared about the Oscars as much and like Goldman choosing to go to the 1970 finals or something over winning his first Oscar.

• 1:25:03Chris Ryan?

  Uh, the other criteria orgasm that I had was just that when, right before he gets shanked or attempted shanked in the yard, Turturro's like, what's the movie tonight? And they're like, oh, I don't know, some galactic shit. And he's like, I hate that sci-fi shit. And I always thought that was a diss of.

• 1:25:20Bill Simmons?

  Star Wars.

• 1:25:20Chris Ryan?

  Of Star Wars for taking out sorcerer.

• 1:25:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, see, I was got a flex category.

• 1:25:24Chris Ryan?

  I got two here. I don't think either of you guys would have one. So I'll just, this was fun because I feel like, uh, the Ed Norton reverse dunk award did this movie need a random sports moment?

• 1:25:35Bill Simmons?

  And we were right there.

• 1:25:37Chris Ryan?

  Come on.

• 1:25:37Bill Simmons?

  We're so close.

• 1:25:38Chris Ryan?

  Rick Masters isn't gonna fucking go out and play one game of pickup with the homies.

• 1:25:43Bill Simmons?

  Just sitting there.

• 1:25:43Chris Ryan?

  Just install the Princeton offense, dude.

• 1:25:46Bill Simmons?

  Um.

• 1:25:46Chris Ryan?

  Throw some backdoor passes.

• 1:25:48Bill Simmons?

  By the way, Sean's got the white shadow behind him. I'm reasonably sure that was the exact same court that the white shadow played Michael Warren's character Bobby Wagum in the greatest one-on-one game ever filmed on TV in like the fifth episode of the white shadow. I think it's the exact same court.

• 1:26:04Chris Ryan?

  Is it really?

• 1:26:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:04Chris Ryan?

  I think it's in Watts.

• 1:26:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:06Chris Ryan?

  Uh, so I had that. The Dennis Peck relationship test.

• 1:26:10Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:26:11Chris Ryan?

  I bring up because I think this is the first place where Peck melts in the face of the sexuality shared between Rick, Bianca and Serena. I think he tried to.

• 1:26:21Bill Simmons?

  He can't, yeah, he can't get there.

• 1:26:22Chris Ryan?

  And they're just like, whatever you want, Dennis, like, come on in.

• 1:26:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:25Chris Ryan?

  He's like, so I'm not destroying anything? And they're like, no, this is about dance and art.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:31Chris Ryan?

  And funny money, man. I just think it would have been.

• 1:26:33Bill Simmons?

  Like, all three of us are up for whatever. He's like, wait, this is too weird for me.

• 1:26:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. So this is where Peck loses his, it's kryptonite.

• 1:26:41Sean Fennessey?

  Can I ask you, where are you at on polyamory in 2026? Just general thoughts.

• 1:26:46Bill Simmons?

  Is this a new movie theme?

• 1:26:47Sean Fennessey?

  No, I've just, I've just been hearing some things out in the world that have, that have raised my eyebrows.

• 1:26:51Chris Ryan?

  About polyamory in the wider world, not Bill?

• 1:26:54Sean Fennessey?

  No, not with Bill. No, of course. Uh, just like. Just like it's, it seems to be expanding.

• 1:27:00Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's been an untapped movie slash HBO TV show type of theme.

• 1:27:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we need like consenting adults, but for 2026.

• 1:27:09Bill Simmons?

  Here's the thing, as you know, my theory on, I think the COVID little break all of us had, I think people have lost their minds. And we're ready for a show like that.

• 1:27:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:19Bill Simmons?

  Just couples just saying fuck it.

• 1:27:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, big love, but just set in Hancock Park. Yeah.

• 1:27:23Bill Simmons?

  That sounds great. I'd watch that. Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. I have Quentin Daly a second time. Quentin Daly got 30 points. This guy's unbelievable. He's a great fucking ball player. He's got a gun like a howitzer, man. 30 feet, boom, boom.

• 1:27:39Chris Ryan?

  Say what you will about Michael Jordan.

• 1:27:42Bill Simmons?

  But backup choice. Can we have the Pankow conversation?

• 1:27:46Chris Ryan?

  No, come on.

• 1:27:47Bill Simmons?

  No, let's do it. Let's do it.

• 1:27:48Chris Ryan?

  What's your problem with him?

• 1:27:50Bill Simmons?

  He's a TV actor in a really important movie.

• 1:27:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm sorry. I agree with Bill.

• 1:27:55Chris Ryan?

  Transformation.

• 1:27:55Bill Simmons?

  He's not a good enough actor. He's not good enough.

• 1:27:58Chris Ryan?

  He's a good actor.

• 1:27:58Bill Simmons?

  No, not for this.

• 1:28:00Sean Fennessey?

  I, I think he could do a lot better.

• 1:28:02Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:28:03Sean Fennessey?

  It's interesting because, you know, the, the story that, that Peterson tells is that Sinise read for the part of Chance.

• 1:28:11Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:28:11Sean Fennessey?

  And that he didn't get the job, but that he recommended Peterson to Friedkin.

• 1:28:15Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:28:16Sean Fennessey?

  And that the reason that Pankow gets the job is because Peterson recommends him.

• 1:28:19Bill Simmons?

  But you think Sinise should have been the Pankow part?

• 1:28:21Sean Fennessey?

  But it should have been Sinise.

• 1:28:22Chris Ryan?

  I have an alternative for who it should have been because we get it basically a year later in The Untouchables and it's Andy Garcia.

• 1:28:29Bill Simmons?

  And he's too handsome.

• 1:28:30Sean Fennessey?

  A little pretty, yeah.

• 1:28:31Chris Ryan?

  So you gotta get an ugly guy who's not.

• 1:28:34Bill Simmons?

  It doesn't have to be.

• 1:28:34Sean Fennessey?

  Sinise is kind of nondescript and there's something a little sinister underneath him.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  So I was gonna do this on recasting couch. Can I offer you John Malkovich?

• 1:28:43Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah. Another Chicago guy.

• 1:28:44Bill Simmons?

  Let's bring some fucking firepower.

• 1:28:46Sean Fennessey?

  Another stage guy.

• 1:28:49Bill Simmons?

  Malkovich going, taking us for a ride in the Pankow part?

• 1:28:51Chris Ryan?

  Is it the performance or is it the part?

• 1:28:54Bill Simmons?

  No, I think it's the performance.

• 1:28:55Chris Ryan?

  Because I think he's asked to do things a lot. Like he's sitting in the backseat during that car chase about to puke crying. Like it's a, it's a good, I think he's good in this movie.

• 1:29:04Bill Simmons?

  I think you just love the movie.

• 1:29:06Chris Ryan?

  Can I tell you what my Butch is?

• 1:29:07Bill Simmons?

  Here's the evidence.

• 1:29:08Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:29:09Bill Simmons?

  The rest of his career.

• 1:29:11Sean Fennessey?

  He's never done a part like this ever again.

• 1:29:15Bill Simmons?

  I'm just gonna throw that out there.

• 1:29:16Sean Fennessey?

  Found him to be enjoyable on Mad About You.

• 1:29:19Bill Simmons?

  Likeable actor, I just think he's miscast.

• 1:29:21Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:29:21Bill Simmons?

  I think this guy, I think there has to be a little bit more of a dark side established before all of a sudden we have this crazy swerve at the end.

• 1:29:28Sean Fennessey?

  He's incredibly funny on episodes. Did you watch that show with Matt LeBlanc on Showtime?

• 1:29:32Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:33Sean Fennessey?

  Where he played like a, like a, the head of HBO, basically, the head of Showtime. He was really funny.

• 1:29:38Bill Simmons?

  One other guy I was thinking was Kelsey Grammer.

• 1:29:42Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm. He, Cheers was going, right?

• 1:29:46Bill Simmons?

  Cheers had like, he had just started to be on Cheers.

• 1:29:49Chris Ryan?

  Are you picking guys based on hairline?

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  I was, no, I was just trying to think of like, out of the box, non-leading man, but just people who were around.

• 1:29:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:58Bill Simmons?

  Like Jeff Goldblum could be another one.

• 1:30:00Sean Fennessey?

  Too tall.

• 1:30:01Bill Simmons?

  But too tall. It's tough.

• 1:30:02Sean Fennessey?

  I'm, I like my sneeze pick.

• 1:30:04Bill Simmons?

  Stanley Tucci yet, but I think Tucci could have been a good one.

• 1:30:07Sean Fennessey?

  What about Will Patton?

• 1:30:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if he was Will Patton yet, was he?

• 1:30:11Sean Fennessey?

  Well, he was in No Way Out, like, two years later.

• 1:30:13Chris Ryan?

  What about Michael?

• 1:30:14Bill Simmons?

  He was.

• 1:30:14Chris Ryan?

  What about Michael Bean?

• 1:30:15Bill Simmons?

  Will Patton's good. Michael Bean too handsome.

• 1:30:18Sean Fennessey?

  Michael Bean, this would be coming right off the Terminator.

• 1:30:20Chris Ryan?

  What about Bill Paxton?

• 1:30:23Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting. Very interesting.

• 1:30:25Bill Simmons?

  Interesting. Not bad.

• 1:30:26Chris Ryan?

  Okay, thanks.

• 1:30:27Bill Simmons?

  Not bad.

• 1:30:28Chris Ryan?

  I love his game. Get there with it.

• 1:30:29Bill Simmons?

  I really like Malkovich.

• 1:30:31Chris Ryan?

  My butch's girlfriend for this is, the first eight minutes of this movie, it's cool. I like it when they're like Reagan's gonna come play poker. It has no relevance for the rest of the film.

• 1:30:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Chris Ryan?

  And I think it would be a bigger deal if someone tried to suicide bomb Ronald Reagan. I think the US Secret Service would be busy and not going after Rick Masters.

• 1:30:52Sean Fennessey?

  So, as I said, I listened to the commentary and he talked about this, and this also was shot after the fact.

• 1:30:59Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:59Sean Fennessey?

  This was not in the original script, along with that title sequence that you were talking about.

• 1:31:03Bill Simmons?

  It was after Wang and Chung came over and said, hey.

• 1:31:07Sean Fennessey?

  And I, I, I think the reason for it is very logical, whether or not you think it works. I like the sequence a lot, but it's from a different movie. Um.

• 1:31:14Bill Simmons?

  It's also the eighties and everyone's on cocaine and nobody cares.

• 1:31:17Sean Fennessey?

  And it's more diehard than it is whatever this like, street level crime movie is, but. It being a Secret Service movie, I think it would be like a little confusing to a general audience, like, why is the Secret Service so involved in the treasury and counterfeiting? And they needed to like establish the bona fides of these agents and what they do.

• 1:31:33Chris Ryan?

  But you could maybe throw that away of like, oh, I haven't done much body work recently. I'm just working on counterfeit. Like, you could probably get that with a line.

• 1:31:40Sean Fennessey?

  True.

• 1:31:41Chris Ryan?

  And not have a guy explode over Los Angeles and then have it be like, yep, back to Quentin Daly highlights.

• 1:31:46Sean Fennessey?

  I think they also want, it also help, helpfully establishes the relationship between the two partners and that like the older guy, you know, who's kind of like at the end. I, I think it's effective, even though it is tonally a little different from the rest of the movie.

• 1:31:59Bill Simmons?

  Quentin Daly's got a gun like a howitzer, man.

• 1:32:03Sean Fennessey?

  Boom, boom.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? Cops as incredibly fun hangs? We don't really get that as much in movies and TV these days.

• 1:32:10Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:32:12Bill Simmons?

  Not like in the 2020s.

• 1:32:13Chris Ryan?

  Not until I read my script, no.

• 1:32:16Bill Simmons?

  I feel like we're hanging out at the dive bar with six cops.

• 1:32:18Chris Ryan?

  I think it's more like this behavior is probably clinically alcoholic.

• 1:32:23Bill Simmons?

  Copland, mid, well, Copland mid 90s is when we start to.

• 1:32:28Sean Fennessey?

  It shifts.

• 1:32:29Bill Simmons?

  A little flip.

• 1:32:29Speaker 03

  So what's the current group that you want to see in a bar having drinks after work in a movie?

• 1:32:34Sean Fennessey?

  Podcasters, obviously.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, podcast producers.

• 1:32:37Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, they know how to talk.

• 1:32:38Chris Ryan?

  Emergency room doctors. I like it when the pit guys have a beer after the shift.

• 1:32:43Sean Fennessey?

  Those are some grisly stories, though, no?

• 1:32:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but like it's, they, they, they deserve one.

• 1:32:47Sean Fennessey?

  They do.

• 1:32:48Chris Ryan?

  They deserve a cold one.

• 1:32:48Sean Fennessey?

  They do. We salute them.

• 1:32:49Bill Simmons?

  I would say NBA assistant coaches.

• 1:32:52Sean Fennessey?

  That's good for intel.

• 1:32:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, fun group. Uh, what's age the worst? By burning expensive paintings for real instead of just doing CGI.

• 1:33:01Sean Fennessey?

  Rayner Wedding actually painted that painting that he burns.

• 1:33:05Bill Simmons?

  And they said it was worth like real, real, real money. And Ben Simmons, who watched first half of this movie with me before deciding he had to go back because he had an exam the next day, um, was like, that painting's fucking awesome. I can't believe they burned it.

• 1:33:17Sean Fennessey?

  He painted it for the movie and Friedkin speculated it would have ultimately been very, very valuable.

• 1:33:22Bill Simmons?

  Tough one. Maybe do like some sort of backup. Friedkin said, uh, after this movie, his agent fired him. His dear friend and agent, Tony Fantazi, who left William Morris, signed with a series of agents and managers who were no more effective. And it was very, very sad for him.

• 1:33:43Chris Ryan?

  That's Age of the Worst?

• 1:33:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that but that story bummed me out. Stick with Friedkin, man. He did French Connection, The Exorcist, The Cruising, and To Live and Die in L.A. You can't get fired after that.

• 1:33:53Sean Fennessey?

  Weird little skip here where he goes Rampage, The Guardian after this too. Two movies that I will defend but are very flawed.

• 1:34:02Bill Simmons?

  Are we thinking, what's the cocaine level here with Friedkin?

• 1:34:05Sean Fennessey?

  I thought it was in the seventies. I didn't think it was in the eighties.

• 1:34:08Bill Simmons?

  Recovered?

• 1:34:08Sean Fennessey?

  He's like getting married to Sherri Lancing. Like, he's become, he's a very, he's much more of like a a citizen at that point.

• 1:34:14Bill Simmons?

  What's Age of the Worst? They have a deleted scene where Vukovich goes to reconcile with his wife. And they show in the special edition DVD and Friedkin says he doesn't remember why it cuts it but regrets doing it.

• 1:34:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it would have been given the Vukovich character a little bit more depth, I think.

• 1:34:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He probably wanted less pankow in the movie. It's like, fuck that guy. Jesus. This is a really bad What's Age of the Worst. The the bridge that he bungee jumps from was the Tony Scott bridge.

• 1:34:42Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:34:42Bill Simmons?

  That's tough.

• 1:34:43Sean Fennessey?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:34:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Chris Ryan?

  Uh, my biggest one's Age of the Worst is you can see them on YouTube is the alternative ending. Where Chance is only shot in the chest, uh, gets, lives. And Chance and Vukovich are exiled to a Anchorage, Alaska, secret service base where they live in a hut together. And they're just sitting there at the end of the movie and then there's a long tracking shot that shows the Alaskan outback. But it's very funny that Friedkin was like, you guys want another ending? I'll go to Alaska and shoot you another ending.

• 1:35:14Sean Fennessey?

  So funny.

• 1:35:16Bill Simmons?

  Fucking maniac.

• 1:35:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:18Sean Fennessey?

  Wait till the sorcerer episode.

• 1:35:20Bill Simmons?

  The Hans Gruber score villain ranking, Defoe is Rick Masters.

• 1:35:25Chris Ryan?

  Six, seven, something like that.

• 1:35:27Sean Fennessey?

  I had eight.

• 1:35:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would have eight.

• 1:35:28Chris Ryan?

  He's a painter, you know? He's got a lot of redeeming qualities.

• 1:35:31Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I forgot. I had the Marion Cobertie pizza cutting award for why didn't anyone in the set stop the star from doing this? The painting.

• 1:35:39Bill Simmons?

  Shouldn't somebody in the set been like, yo, man, we can't actually burn that. Can we go wide shot where he's about to burn it and then we go wide shot and replace the painting?

• 1:35:50Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know. It's life is art, you know?

• 1:35:53Bill Simmons?

  Ruffalo Hannah, Ruben Perchidge, overacting word. I have Pank out here.

• 1:35:59Sean Fennessey?

  What are we gonna do now?

• 1:36:01Chris Ryan?

  It's good, though. It's good shit. That's what you would feel like.

• 1:36:04Sean Fennessey?

  I would, I got Robert Downey Senior here as Thomas Bateman as well.

• 1:36:09Chris Ryan?

  Did you like him in this movie?

• 1:36:09Sean Fennessey?

  I did. He's just putting a little mustard on it every time he gets into a scene.

• 1:36:12Bill Simmons?

  I was just coming to see you. Yeah. You must be a mind reader.

• 1:36:17Sean Fennessey?

  He's very amusing, but uh, it's a lot. It's very noticeable every time he shows up.

• 1:36:22Bill Simmons?

  You have a flex category?

• 1:36:25Sean Fennessey?

  Mine was the uh, it's a book about medals award belatedly best quota exchange. I'm getting too old for this shit two years before lethal weapon.

• 1:36:34Bill Simmons?

  See, I think Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, how to stake a word.

• 1:36:40Bill Simmons?

  I, I have multiple Peterson, Don Johnson things here, and I think they're intertwined here because his movies coming as vices. I, I think what we said about Costner before, I also think could have been the case for Don Johnson. And I'm just endlessly fascinated why some careers go one way. These two guys, Don Johnson kind of peaks with Miami Vice, can't get out of it, misses that window where he can make movies. Peterson gets freaked out by the first two movies he did and just zags. And then you have Costner who's just, just hitting, hitting it right down the fairway. Just like, yeah, Bull Durham, cool. Let's do that one. Field of Dreams, sounds great.

• 1:37:22Bill Simmons?

  Bodyguard, like he's just doing Clint Eastwood movie, okay. And just has the wherewithal over and over again to make these picks that continue to vault him. Now, he made some crazy ones too, right? He does, Dance with Wolves worked, worked out great. Waterworld did not. Postman, by the mid 90s, it's over. But uh, I'm always interested, these guys that are basically the same.

• 1:37:45Chris Ryan?

  And then somebody vaults.

• 1:37:46Bill Simmons?

  In sports, it's like you have quarterbacks that are around the same and then it can come down to coach, offensive line. The owner, how much money you're spending, not getting injured. But with actors, it's really like all these guys were kind of next to each other and then some went up and some didn't.

• 1:38:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, there's like a whole strain of them. I'm, I, the ones that I was thinking of were Mel, Michael Douglas, Jeff Bridges and Richard Gere. Those were like, and I guess Bruce Willis to some extent, but then you also have like William Hurt. You've got Raoul Julia, you know, you've got like a, a band of actors in the 1980s who were sort of like-

• 1:38:19Chris Ryan?

  Jeremy Irons in there?

• 1:38:20Sean Fennessey?

  Jeremy Irons, like B tier stars who are always in good films. And he, Tom Berenger is kind of in that class.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent in there.

• 1:38:29Sean Fennessey?

  And-

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  He's another one. He's like somewhere to watch over me, when, someone to watch over me when we did that one. But my hottest take was Peterson and Don Johnson could have just switched careers in 84. And I think it would have been absolutely captivating to see what happened and I think-

• 1:38:45Chris Ryan?

  Transplanted Johnson to this movie?

• 1:38:48Bill Simmons?

  Ben Sonnenkraucher.

• 1:38:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:38:50Bill Simmons?

  And I think Don Johnson could have been in those two movies and I think if he had been in those two movies, I don't think he would have gotten freaked out by them like Peterson did. And I think he just would have been right on the coster corner from that moment on. And that would have been that. And it actually would have been better for him and it would have all ended up with him on CSI.

• 1:39:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. Did he ever do one of those procedural shows?

• 1:39:10Bill Simmons?

  Nash Bridges.

• 1:39:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's right, of course.

• 1:39:14Bill Simmons?

  You have a hottest take?

• 1:39:15Chris Ryan?

  I got two. This movie is what he would feel like with no Natalie Portman character.

• 1:39:22Chris Ryan?

  Essentially like has that kind of-

• 1:39:24Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:39:25Chris Ryan?

  LA crime saga, two sides of the law coming at, to a head, has incredible set pieces. It basically has minus the fat of like the Natalie Portman character, the Dennis Haysburg character or something like that. My other hottest take is just that this is a better movie than The French Connection.

• 1:39:43Sean Fennessey?

  Certainly more watchable to me.

• 1:39:45Bill Simmons?

  It's tough, early 70s versus-

• 1:39:47Chris Ryan?

  I mean, it's not as influential, obviously.

• 1:39:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:49Sean Fennessey?

  The, the, The French Connection has not aged well as a watch.

• 1:39:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:52Sean Fennessey?

  It's not that fun to pop on. It's, which is weird because The Exorcist is insanely watchable and it's only two years later. But The French Connection, I don't like revisit a lot.

• 1:40:00Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a hottest take or no?

• 1:40:02Sean Fennessey?

  I, I did one already, the E.B. Mel Gibson.

• 1:40:04Bill Simmons?

  That's that guy a word. Have a little switch for this one. After all Craig's bitching.

• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

  Have it separated into casuals, real ones and deep cut.

• 1:40:14Chris Ryan?

  Wow, damn, call me out.

• 1:40:15Bill Simmons?

  Casuals, Dean Stockwell, that's a that guy to Craig.

• 1:40:19Chris Ryan?

  Of course, of course he is.

• 1:40:20Sean Fennessey?

  He was a huge star, a child star in the 50s and 60s.

• 1:40:23Chris Ryan?

  On Quantum Leap for 10 years.

• 1:40:24Sean Fennessey?

  2026.

• 1:40:25Bill Simmons?

  Real ones.

• 1:40:26Sean Fennessey?

  On the TV show in the 80s.

• 1:40:27Bill Simmons?

  Real ones, John Pankow.

• 1:40:28Sean Fennessey?

  He's in Blue Velvet.

• 1:40:29Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Became that guy from this movie and from Frasier, John Pankow. Deep cut. They go to the doctor at one point after Peterson gets.

• 1:40:38Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:39Bill Simmons?

  Totoro hits him. Doctors reconcile his dad from Field of Dreams.

• 1:40:42Sean Fennessey?

  That's right.

• 1:40:43Bill Simmons?

  Thwire Brown.

• 1:40:44Sean Fennessey?

  That's a great one.

• 1:40:46Chris Ryan?

  I don't know what category you would put this one in, but the guy that Chance chases across the footbridge is Gary Cole.

• 1:40:54Sean Fennessey?

  That was mine.

• 1:40:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 1:40:56Sean Fennessey?

  It's his first movie part.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  He's more Gary Cole.

• 1:40:58Chris Ryan?

  I.

• 1:40:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's, we had.

• 1:41:00Sean Fennessey?

  Craig, who's Gary Cole?

• 1:41:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you know Gary Cole.

• 1:41:03Sean Fennessey?

  He's Lumber from Office Space.

• 1:41:04Bill Simmons?

  No, he was in what, no, he was in what, what comedy?

• 1:41:07Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, sure, he was in the Brady Bunch movie.

• 1:41:08Chris Ryan?

  Deep, no.

• 1:41:10Bill Simmons?

  He was in the Brady Bunch. No, he was in one of the Feral McKay movies though, wasn't he?

• 1:41:13Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Talladega Nights, he's Ricky Bobby's brother's dad, he's his dad.

• 1:41:17Sean Fennessey?

  So, but you, but you don't know the name Gary Cole?

• 1:41:19Chris Ryan?

  I think I do know the name Gary Cole, but that doesn't mean I don't think he's not a that guy.

• 1:41:23Bill Simmons?

  Who'd you have for Dion Waiters?

• 1:41:24Chris Ryan?

  William Peterson is a that guy.

• 1:41:26Sean Fennessey?

  How, that's just obscene. He was on the number one show on television for 10 years.

• 1:41:32Chris Ryan?

  People don't know the name of those actors.

• 1:41:33Sean Fennessey?

  You're just young, that's all that is.

• 1:41:36Chris Ryan?

  Craig gets taken off the group chat. Uh, my Dion Waiters, uh, was Totoro, who we haven't really talked about.

• 1:41:42Bill Simmons?

  I had Totoro as well.

• 1:41:43Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and the check is in the mail and I love you and I promise not to come in your mouth.

• 1:41:54Sean Fennessey?

  This is really early for him, right? He also is unknown.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  He's playing all the hits, all the future Totoro hits.

• 1:42:01Chris Ryan?

  Like every other swinging dick in here, day by motherfucking day.

• 1:42:06Sean Fennessey?

  I ca, I, I can't argue with that. I do really enjoy though Bob Grimes, Dean Stockwell's character at the very end when he's watching the videotape and he's, he turns to Bianca and he's like, you may want these, there's some personal things on there.

• 1:42:22Chris Ryan?

  She's like, yeah, thanks.

• 1:42:25Bill Simmons?

  Recast the couch director, I already gave you Malkovich. Can I offer you for, uh, Defoe's girlfriend, who we didn't really talk about, Deborah Fuer?

• 1:42:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Bianca.

• 1:42:36Bill Simmons?

  Just a couple of test drives here.

• 1:42:38Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:42:39Bill Simmons?

  Melanie Griffith.

• 1:42:40Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:42:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, coming off body double.

• 1:42:44Bill Simmons?

  Rosé and Arquette.

• 1:42:46Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm. Desperately seeking Susan. Is that eighty five?

• 1:42:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Jennifer Jason Leigh.

• 1:42:53Sean Fennessey?

  Sure.

• 1:42:54Chris Ryan?

  When's, when's fast times?

• 1:42:56Bill Simmons?

  Eighty two.

• 1:42:58Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:43:00Sean Fennessey?

  What about a homegirl from Top Gun?

• 1:43:02Chris Ryan?

  Kelly McGillis?

• 1:43:03Sean Fennessey?

  Kelly Mille, yeah.

• 1:43:05Bill Simmons?

  She was a year after Witness.

• 1:43:07Chris Ryan?

  Trying to think of like a great dancer in that area, like, cause you want to have somebody who's like convincing as a dancer.

• 1:43:12Sean Fennessey?

  Farishnikov?

• 1:43:14Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 1:43:16Bill Simmons?

  I think that's a good.

• 1:43:16Chris Ryan?

  Not Yoko Meich, I don't know.

• 1:43:18Bill Simmons?

  That's basically a Melanie, Melanie Griffith light performance.

• 1:43:21Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:43:23Bill Simmons?

  I don't, not a lot of stuff happened.

• 1:43:24Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, Daryl Hannah is really, I think also.

• 1:43:26Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Sean.

• 1:43:28Sean Fennessey?

  That's.

• 1:43:28Chris Ryan?

  Great.

• 1:43:29Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:43:29Sean Fennessey?

  But she's doing.

• 1:43:30Bill Simmons?

  She's in the news lately.

• 1:43:30Sean Fennessey?

  She's doing very similar makeup in Blade Runner.

• 1:43:33Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:43:33Sean Fennessey?

  As well.

• 1:43:35Bill Simmons?

  And I would go Melanie Griffith.

• 1:43:36Sean Fennessey?

  I had other names written down for Pankow. Sorry, no disrespect to her, but actually I forgot that I wrote this down.

• 1:43:41Chris Ryan?

  Not my dad, but just go ahead.

• 1:43:44Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, David Patrick Kelly from the Warriors.

• 1:43:47Bill Simmons?

  Ooh.

• 1:43:48Sean Fennessey?

  That could, that could be interesting. Could see that. Um, Young Michael Madsen, too handsome, but wet behind the ears.

• 1:43:54Chris Ryan?

  What's that, Raymar?

• 1:43:56Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Raymar would be good.

• 1:43:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:43:59Sean Fennessey?

  The other, the other one I had was JT Walsh.

• 1:44:02Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:44:02Sean Fennessey?

  Which who was once a member of one of our hallowed categories, but is no longer a part of that category. And I feel like JT in eighty five.

• 1:44:10Bill Simmons?

  It's a good one.

• 1:44:10Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty credible.

• 1:44:11Bill Simmons?

  So John Heard could be another one too for that, right?

• 1:44:14Sean Fennessey?

  Coming off Cutter's way. Yes.

• 1:44:15Bill Simmons?

  Craig checked out. He's not even with us anymore.

• 1:44:18Sean Fennessey?

  I could do this all day.

• 1:44:20Bill Simmons?

  You have a, Craig, you did your flex.

• 1:44:22Chris Ryan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:44:23Bill Simmons?

  Want to talk about the Pittman trade or no?

• 1:44:26Chris Ryan?

  It's not bad.

• 1:44:26Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:44:27Chris Ryan?

  We needed a number two.

• 1:44:28Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:44:28Sean Fennessey?

  There was a Pippen trade?

• 1:44:29Chris Ryan?

  Pittman.

• 1:44:30Bill Simmons?

  Pittman.

• 1:44:30Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, Michael Pittman, yeah.

• 1:44:31Chris Ryan?

  Scotty Pippen got traded.

• 1:44:32Sean Fennessey?

  I wanted him on, on the Jets.

• 1:44:34Chris Ryan?

  He came back, can run free now.

• 1:44:36Bill Simmons?

  Well, so we're, we're running, we're at a hundred minutes already. We're past the Craig Century thing. A half assed in research. I'll, I'll zoom through a couple. They produced one million dollars of counterfeit money and they put deliberate errors in the money. And put X and that didn't stop some of the money from leaking out and the son of one of the crew members tried to use some of the prop money to buy candy and was caught and some of the money was still out.

• 1:45:00Chris Ryan?

  That's incredible. That's like its own movie.

• 1:45:02Bill Simmons?

  The Secret Service was picking up bills like years later.

• 1:45:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:06Bill Simmons?

  From this movie.

• 1:45:07Chris Ryan?

  Some defo classics.

• 1:45:08Bill Simmons?

  And I had the same thought Craig did. There's kind of, like, there's seven movies that could have come out of this movie and one of them is the counterfeit bill movie that they made for the movie, but then it's like. Ah, so cool. Car chase sequence took six weeks to shoot. The best part is it was the last thing shot, so if anything happened to the actors, they would have enough banked already.

• 1:45:30Chris Ryan?

  And they shot it the way Sean was describing also because Friedkin was just like, I just like the landscape and the horizon on the other side of the road. So we're just gonna do it that way.

• 1:45:39Bill Simmons?

  Friedkin came up with the idea of staging the chase against the flow of traffic in 1963 when he was driving home from a wedding and fell asleep at the wheel and spent the rest of his life wondering what would happen if he could use that in a film. And eventually he did. And then, uh. Dreams do come true. All Panko's reactions were real. Wang Chung saw a rough cut of the film. Shitty actor. Wang Chung got, saw a rough cut before they did the song.

• 1:46:10Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:46:11Bill Simmons?

  I heard Panko got a cut from his JV basketball team. How about that?

• 1:46:17Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Apex Fountain, Panko?

• 1:46:19Chris Ryan?

  No, Mad About You.

• 1:46:20Bill Simmons?

  Mad About You. Wang Chung, yes. Cause we're on Wang Chung Apex Fountain, no.

• 1:46:24Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:46:26Bill Simmons?

  Peterson, I think is CSI.

• 1:46:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:46:29Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 1:46:29Chris Ryan?

  Secret Service movies?

• 1:46:31Bill Simmons?

  Can we do the list?

• 1:46:33Bill Simmons?

  I made the list. Isn't it in the line of fire?

• 1:46:35Chris Ryan?

  That's a, that's the alternative.

• 1:46:36Bill Simmons?

  Most successful, right?

• 1:46:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:38Bill Simmons?

  Okay, so it's in the line of fire. It's Olympus Has Fallen and the other has fallen films. I, even I can't fully support those. The Interpreter. Oh.

• 1:46:47Sean Fennessey?

  The Sentinel.

• 1:46:48Bill Simmons?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:49Sean Fennessey?

  Starring Michael Douglas.

• 1:46:50Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I like The Sentinel.

• 1:46:52Sean Fennessey?

  Along Came a Spider.

• 1:46:53Bill Simmons?

  Do you like The Sentinel?

• 1:46:54Chris Ryan?

  I like The Sentinel.

• 1:46:54Sean Fennessey?

  Morgan Freeman and Ashley Judd.

• 1:46:55Chris Ryan?

  I haven't seen it in a while.

• 1:46:56Bill Simmons?

  Like The Sentinel.

• 1:46:57Chris Ryan?

  For BS Month.

• 1:46:57Bill Simmons?

  It's a good one.

• 1:46:58Sean Fennessey?

  Guarding Tess, Nicolas Cage in a comedy, Shirley MacLaine. And then The Bodyguard.

• 1:47:05Chris Ryan?

  Oh, well, Bodyguard's gotta be Apex. Yeah. I would also say In the Line of Fire, you know, in terms of depicting the Secret Service in a good or bad light. That guy lost Kennedy. So like, it's kind of already playing from behind.

• 1:47:16Sean Fennessey?

  Great point.

• 1:47:17Bill Simmons?

  Would you include Dave just for the Ving Rhames scenes?

• 1:47:19Sean Fennessey?

  Love that part.

• 1:47:20Bill Simmons?

  I would take a bull for you, Dave.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  It's on MGM. It's been showing it lately.

• 1:47:26Chris Ryan?

  Have they?

• 1:47:27Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Chris Ryan?

  This is on MGM.

• 1:47:28Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think that's because there's a new MGM Plus show called, I forget what it's called, starring Kevin Kline?

• 1:47:35Bill Simmons?

  I saw that with Kevin Kline and Laura Linney's in it.

• 1:47:38Sean Fennessey?

  And Laura Linney. Yeah.

• 1:47:40Chris Ryan?

  What?

• 1:47:42Bill Simmons?

  It's like a Mad Libs for like, this show exists.

• 1:47:44Sean Fennessey?

  It's called American Classic.

• 1:47:46Chris Ryan?

  American Classic.

• 1:47:47Bill Simmons?

  Kevin Kline and Laura Linney.

• 1:47:49Sean Fennessey?

  Right? John Tenny is the third lead.

• 1:47:50Bill Simmons?

  John Tenny.

• 1:47:53Bill Simmons?

  It's some famous Broadway actor goes back.

• 1:47:57Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:47:57Bill Simmons?

  And is in a local play near the end of his career. All Hell Breaks Loose.

• 1:48:01Sean Fennessey?

  I almost fired it up last night. Love Kevin Kline.

• 1:48:05Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, William Peterson. We did Willem Dafoe. Platoon? Spider-Man? Platoon.

• 1:48:12Chris Ryan?

  Spider-Man.

• 1:48:12Bill Simmons?

  After Platoon, it felt like he was gonna be one of the next big actors. Like he could pick his parts for a while.

• 1:48:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, he was in Last Temptations of Christ.

• 1:48:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Every other actor in this movie except John Turturro, probably Apex Mountain.

• 1:48:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Darlan, Deborah Fuhrer.

• 1:48:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, all those. Friedkin, no. Setting Art on Fire?

• 1:48:35Sean Fennessey?

  Not prepared for that one.

• 1:48:37Bill Simmons?

  Bungee Jumping in a movie?

• 1:48:38Sean Fennessey?

  Two is probably up there for that one.

• 1:48:40Bill Simmons?

  Bungee Jumping, probably one of the crews.

• 1:48:43Sean Fennessey?

  Jackass Number Two?

• 1:48:44Bill Simmons?

  Jackass Number Two.

• 1:48:45Chris Ryan?

  Good one.

• 1:48:47Bill Simmons?

  Getting shot in the dick?

• 1:48:49Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:48:49Bill Simmons?

  Pulp Fiction?

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  Goldeneye bungee jump.

• 1:48:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:48:52Chris Ryan?

  Goldeneye, great bungee jump, Pulp Fiction, obviously, dick, apex mountain.

• 1:48:56Bill Simmons?

  1985 Chevy and Palace?

• 1:48:59Chris Ryan?

  There's a Ferrari in this one, too.

• 1:49:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:01Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:02Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:49:04Chris Ryan?

  Cruise is Rick.

• 1:49:06Sean Fennessey?

  Agreed.

• 1:49:08Bill Simmons?

  Cruise, almost like Interview the Vampire Magnolia type of Cruise?

• 1:49:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:14Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:15Chris Ryan?

  Slick, long hair.

• 1:49:16Sean Fennessey?

  Demon eyes.

• 1:49:17Chris Ryan?

  Loves his, would probably insist on doing the art himself.

• 1:49:20Bill Simmons?

  I had Cruise as Rick as well. Scorsese over Spielberg.

• 1:49:23Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 1:49:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:49:25Bill Simmons?

  Best hang, worst hang?

• 1:49:27Sean Fennessey?

  Best hang is Rick. Rick has got.

• 1:49:29Bill Simmons?

  Rick's an amazing hang.

• 1:49:30Sean Fennessey?

  He's got money.

• 1:49:31Bill Simmons?

  He gets you presents on your birthday?

• 1:49:32Sean Fennessey?

  Ah! He's got, he's got style and taste. He'll introduce you to the art world.

• 1:49:37Chris Ryan?

  Can I play, can we play this out a little bit? What is minute 11 of a conversation with Rick?

• 1:49:41Sean Fennessey?

  I grew up in a house with cops.

• 1:49:43Chris Ryan?

  I'm just saying.

• 1:49:44Sean Fennessey?

  It's Rick times a billion.

• 1:49:46Chris Ryan?

  I know, I know the, I know the real plus minus of the Chicago Bulls night. What do you want to talk about?

• 1:49:52Bill Simmons?

  For me, it's, it's Chance.

• 1:49:54Chris Ryan?

  Chance number one, worst hang is Cody, always complaining about, complaining about his ulcers.

• 1:49:58Sean Fennessey?

  Be real, like shoot straight here, come on.

• 1:50:02Chris Ryan?

  This is the most interesting person.

• 1:50:03Speaker 03

  I think Rick can introduce you into fun nights and new worlds, but you, I think conversationally, Rick might not be the best. But I, but he can, he can have the craziest night with you.

• 1:50:11Chris Ryan?

  Me, a chance.

• 1:50:12Bill Simmons?

  Want to take a sauna? No, just get naked.

• 1:50:14Sean Fennessey?

  Chance is a bar. Is it best hang, worst hang forever? Is it like, it's not best friends forever?

• 1:50:19Speaker 03

  It's like one night.

• 1:50:20Sean Fennessey?

  One night.

• 1:50:21Bill Simmons?

  Well, one night it's Rick.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  Rick is, has the craziest night, for sure.

• 1:50:24Bill Simmons?

  It's just you wake up without pants on, no money.

• 1:50:26Sean Fennessey?

  I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Jane Leves.

• 1:50:28Chris Ryan?

  Sure, but like Chance might be like, let's go to the topless bar in Terminal Islands. Like, you know what I mean?

• 1:50:35Chris Ryan?

  I know the door girl.

• 1:50:36Bill Simmons?

  There's a Steelers game.

• 1:50:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:40Chris Ryan?

  Long snapping, I got a lunch.

• 1:50:45Bill Simmons?

  Uh, picky knits. I'd never sat right with me when Chance notices something's wrong with the room service order.

• 1:50:53Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah. Why? I mean, wait, wait.

• 1:50:56Bill Simmons?

  He's just about to leave and he just hears a clank and sees somebody walking.

• 1:50:59Chris Ryan?

  There's nobody supposed to be on that floor. You're not supposed to be on the same floor as the president.

• 1:51:02Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:51:03Chris Ryan?

  Supposed to be clear.

• 1:51:04Bill Simmons?

  How about, uh, Jimmy pulling the guy down from the floor below, the terrorist, pulling him back? Where's he coming from?

• 1:51:12Chris Ryan?

  He's like climbing up from like probably a lower roof onto the top of the building. But I, I think it's a stupid scene.

• 1:51:19Bill Simmons?

  Totoro's talking to Defoe on the, uh, on the jail phone?

• 1:51:23Chris Ryan?

  Unbelievable shit.

• 1:51:24Bill Simmons?

  Do people just do this? They just openly confess crimes on the jail phone?

• 1:51:29Chris Ryan?

  For you, man.

• 1:51:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, motherfucker. And he's like, don't, but you can just do this?

• 1:51:33Sean Fennessey?

  I'm sure criminals do it all the time.

• 1:51:35Bill Simmons?

  Good podcast format. Why don't they just monitor the jail phones? Why don't they like do surveillance?

• 1:51:39Sean Fennessey?

  That's nice. That's a really good pod idea.

• 1:51:41Chris Ryan?

  Prison pod, like a prison, prison wall pod?

• 1:51:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, like convict and his, and his plug and his connect and they meet up.

• 1:51:47Bill Simmons?

  Should we, should we cha-change like the reality TV pod where they're just calling each other through?

• 1:51:52Chris Ryan?

  A funny minute on my, you know, it's just the most random shit on your Instagram algorithm sometimes. I was getting women in the Idaho prison system.

• 1:52:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the most random stuff on your algorithm that tracks all of your interests all the time.

• 1:52:08Bill Simmons?

  So you obviously clicked on one.

• 1:52:10Chris Ryan?

  Date women in the Idaho prison system.

• 1:52:14Sean Fennessey?

  Do they all look like Darlan Flugel?

• 1:52:17Chris Ryan?

  No, sadly not. But I was just like, these chicks seem pretty interesting, you know, like.

• 1:52:29Bill Simmons?

  Wow, that's when we have to go in the algorithm and remove it.

• 1:52:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:34Chris Ryan?

  I think I did eventually, but not for like, there was still like nine days where I was just like, wow, Bree.

• 1:52:41Chris Ryan?

  From outside of Boise City.

• 1:52:45Chris Ryan?

  She loves anime.

• 1:52:53Chris Ryan?

  I have a picking it.

• 1:52:54Bill Simmons?

  I had, I only had two more, which was the cars on the wrong side of the road, even though we talked about the intentionally and then why does Vukovich get Chance's Bronco at the end of the movie?

• 1:53:04Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 1:53:04Sean Fennessey?

  A lot of questions.

• 1:53:05Chris Ryan?

  Probably doesn't have a will and testimony, but yeah. I, my question is, it just seems like it would be much easier for Chance to execute Masters rather than like create all these different crimes to cover up for each other to arrest him.

• 1:53:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like to do the, by, by the book, you arrest them, but you're also breaking laws to do it by the book.

• 1:53:25Chris Ryan?

  There's no way that case would have ever stood up. And to say nothing of the fact that Dean Stockwell already knows how criminal their investigation is.

• 1:53:31Sean Fennessey?

  Well, relatedly, I feel like picking this could just be an entire Vincent Chase award. Like, are we sure this character is actually good at his job? Cause here's some of the things that Chance does. He races through security and alerts Carl to his presence in the airport rather than just show his ID quietly and find him on the people mover and apprehend him. Then he allows an affair with an informant to shade his ability to make good choices. And that ultimately leads to him taking the deal with Thomas Ling, which is clearly a setup. And he says to a judge, when he's trying to get his escaped prisoner back, if I was one of your asshole cronies, you'd be spread eagle on your desk to do this for me. And then later he gets shot in the face by a bodyguard. Chance is not good, like at all.

• 1:54:12Chris Ryan?

  He just takes risks.

• 1:54:15Bill Simmons?

  Second.

• 1:54:16Chris Ryan?

  And it's also not, it's pretty telling. I don't think that there was a long line of guys to replace Jimmy Hart. Like when, when Chance loses his partner, it's not like everybody's like, damn, Chance is up. I can, I can be his partner.

• 1:54:27Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:54:28Chris Ryan?

  No, like they were like, you can have Vukovich.

• 1:54:30Bill Simmons?

  That's why he had nobody to leave his Bronco to.

• 1:54:32Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:54:32Sean Fennessey?

  It's a good point. There, that's a great moment early in the movie when they're all drinking Hart after they apprehend or they're, you know, they've foiled the terrorist plot and Hart's like,

• 1:54:42Sean Fennessey?

  this fucking yahoo, you know, and he's pointing at Chance and he's like, this guy's gotten me into some trouble.

• 1:54:47Chris Ryan?

  How come, but Vukovich gets the Bronco, does he get the Malibu house?

• 1:54:52Chris Ryan?

  Good question.

• 1:54:53Bill Simmons?

  I also have some questions about, uh... What's Darlene Flugel's character's name?

• 1:54:58Chris Ryan?

  Ruth.

• 1:54:59Bill Simmons?

  Ruth, who in the book is called Ruthie the Rat.

• 1:55:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:02Bill Simmons?

  She's the rat, as we find out during the movie. She's probably feeding info. No other guys ever over at the house? So it's just the, uh, unannounced stop by and nobody else there, but they're not really dating? And she can't do the, "Hey, when can we get more serious?" Cause he's like, "I'll just revoke your parole."

• 1:55:22Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:55:23Bill Simmons?

  This is gonna be the arrangement. But is she not allowed to have other guys over?

• 1:55:26Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, I feel like she's just been fully coerced into that relationship.

• 1:55:29Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:55:29Sean Fennessey?

  You know, it's not...

• 1:55:30Chris Ryan?

  I know what you mean, though. It's like, at what point is she like, "Well, I do have a boyfriend." You know, long haul trucker.

• 1:55:35Sean Fennessey?

  Maybe she gets sent back to prison.

• 1:55:37Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I'm going all black cast for this one. We haven't had it in a while.

• 1:55:43Sean Fennessey?

  I said the same.

• 1:55:43Bill Simmons?

  The all-black cast would be amazing for this.

• 1:55:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that'd be pretty sick. They tried to make a prestige series of this for WGN. Freaking tried, but didn't go off the ground.

• 1:55:52Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else?

• 1:55:57Chris Ryan?

  How are you guys feeling about Zane?

• 1:55:59Bill Simmons?

  I mean, every week it's the highlight of my week.

• 1:56:01Sean Fennessey?

  I love it.

• 1:56:01Chris Ryan?

  Chance, man. You just jumped off of Vincent Thomas and nobody thought you could do it. Alvarez didn't think you could do it. Your partner Jimmy Hart didn't think you could do it, but here you are. You got Jimmy Hart killed in some ways, cause you didn't get his back, but Vukovich is here now and just tell me, man, what are you gonna... What are your plans? What are your plans with Ruth? What are your plans for Masters? Such a talented artist in his own right.

• 1:56:30Sean Fennessey?

  Just the whole... The whole idea.

• 1:56:37Bill Simmons?

  I thought you were gonna have him interviewing Rick Masters and go, "Rick?"

• 1:56:40Chris Ryan?

  Rick.

• 1:56:41Bill Simmons?

  "The artist."

• 1:56:41Chris Ryan?

  Yes, the artist. The artist is here. You've done such beautiful work, both with money and with painting. What is it?

• 1:56:52Sean Fennessey?

  I can't get over the idea of Zayn Lo inviting a local cop on his show.

• 1:56:59Sean Fennessey?

  To talk to him about his like, what he's investigating, what's going on in his life.

• 1:57:05Chris Ryan?

  It's like, we've got a lot of episodes of this show, it's hard, man.

• 1:57:09Bill Simmons?

  I was pet driving a little Ryan Ruko and Doris Burke doing the car chase.

• 1:57:15Bill Simmons?

  And Doris Burke's just calling everybody mister, but my heart's totally in it.

• 1:57:18Chris Ryan?

  We see you, Mr. Chance.

• 1:57:20Bill Simmons?

  We see Mr. Chance. He's driving up the one-way ramp and then Ruko's like, is he gonna get there?

• 1:57:26Chris Ryan?

  You bet.

• 1:57:30Bill Simmons?

  Just want to ask her who gets it. Can I offer you an original song? Hey.

• 1:57:35Chris Ryan?

  Original song or soundtrack?

• 1:57:37Bill Simmons?

  Original song, best music.

• 1:57:38Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:57:40Bill Simmons?

  The winner was Say You Say Me from White Nights by Lionel Richie. I mean, honestly, that song kind of sucks and I like Lionel Richie. I wouldn't put that in the top 12 Lionel Richies.

• 1:57:50Sean Fennessey?

  Tough one.

• 1:57:50Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:57:51Bill Simmons?

  Say you, say me, say it together naturally. That song sucks.

• 1:57:57Sean Fennessey?

  I wasn't really hoping you were gonna sing it, so that worked out for me.

• 1:57:59Bill Simmons?

  Wait, am I right? Does that song suck?

• 1:58:01Chris Ryan?

  I never fucking liked Lionel Richie. I don't know.

• 1:58:02Bill Simmons?

  I'm pro Lionel Richie. All Night Long is amazing, easy, like, I'll go on and on, but that song's bad.

• 1:58:07Sean Fennessey?

  Wang Chung not nominated.

• 1:58:09Bill Simmons?

  Wang Chung not nominated. Color Purple's song was nominated. The Power of Love from Back to the Future, honestly, also could have won.

• 1:58:15Sean Fennessey?

  Banger, yeah.

• 1:58:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, come on.

• 1:58:16Bill Simmons?

  Separate Lives from White Night and then A Chorus Line One. But fucking Wang Chung. Could have seen them at the Oscars.

• 1:58:23Sean Fennessey?

  Pretty cool.

• 1:58:24Bill Simmons?

  And the nominees are To Live and Die in L.A. by Wang Chung.

• 1:58:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:30Bill Simmons?

  Would have been amazing.

• 1:58:31Sean Fennessey?

  Was that Anthony Hopkins? Who were you just doing there?

• 1:58:33Bill Simmons?

  I don't know.

• 1:58:33Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:58:34Bill Simmons?

  Probably Unanswerable Questions.

• 1:58:35Chris Ryan?

  Can I give my Oscar to Robbie Miller, please?

• 1:58:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sure. I don't have any more Unanswerable Questions yet, because we've done all of them.

• 1:58:42Chris Ryan?

  I did my whole, like, how did you find out who won that game?

• 1:58:47Chris Ryan?

  I always wondered about this. Chance says Jimmy Hart wasn't just his partner, he was his best friend for seven years. Can somebody really be your best friend after seven years? I just feel like you gotta make a deeper investment in somebody.

• 1:58:56Sean Fennessey?

  You think that'll go longer?

• 1:58:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:58Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, interesting.

• 1:58:59Bill Simmons?

  Is Hifit your best friend?

• 1:59:05Bill Simmons?

  You've done hyphen seven years.

• 1:59:06Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 1:59:07Bill Simmons?

  Craig's a good person to ask.

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  Good call.

• 1:59:10Speaker 03

  I love them both equally, Danny and DK. Probably not my best friends.

• 1:59:13Sean Fennessey?

  You're not taking this question.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  They're my brothers, really.

• 1:59:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, sure they are.

• 1:59:16Bill Simmons?

  I actually do have an unanswerable question. I was debating whether to trot it out or not.

• 1:59:20Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:59:21Bill Simmons?

  Just, I have some counterfeit money questions. So the amount of time, energy, money expenses to make counterfeit money. It didn't seem like a small operation, right? You have all those printing presses and the paint and

• 1:59:36Chris Ryan?

  Chemicals.

• 1:59:36Bill Simmons?

  Paper, chemicals, not cheap.

• 1:59:40Bill Simmons?

  And then somebody's buying the money. So they're, so I'm paying a hundred thousand dollars, but I'm getting five hundred thousand dollars of money, something like that?

• 1:59:49Sean Fennessey?

  Probably like something like that.

• 1:59:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I don't think it's a good business. Not to mention you could be arrested and go to jail.

• 1:59:55Chris Ryan?

  Jeff is like, if you're printing the money, what do you give a shit what I make? Like, he's like, just print more money and give it to me, like.

• 2:00:03Bill Simmons?

  How about if you're printing the money? Why don't you just keep the money and just buy shit with it? Or bring it to like Columbia and buy drugs? And then take the drugs and bring them back? Like, what's the point of selling counterfeit money for money?

• 2:00:15Chris Ryan?

  Because I think it's probably supposed to be the criminal act that's closest to artistic creation for masters.

• 2:00:21Sean Fennessey?

  I think this is a really interesting examination of how your mind works. Cause I don't think the generally held opinion is that counterfeiting money is a good way to make money or a good job or safe.

• 2:00:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:31Sean Fennessey?

  It's a terrible idea.

• 2:00:33Bill Simmons?

  It's a terrible idea. It's very likely you're gonna get arrested.

• 2:00:37Sean Fennessey?

  It's so dangerous.

• 2:00:38Bill Simmons?

  And I think for all the expense and time that you put into it, I don't see the upside.

• 2:00:42Sean Fennessey?

  Well, the only people that are buying the money from you were also criminals. And if you sell that money to the wrong person and then that person gets caught, you're fucked. Cause not only either they're gonna rat on you or you're gonna get killed.

• 2:00:53Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 2:00:54Bill Simmons?

  There's 40 things that can go wrong and the only thing that can go right is that. You don't get caught.

• 2:00:59Chris Ryan?

  And it seems like Rick is like making like thirty grand here and eighty grand there. It's not like a huge number.

• 2:01:04Bill Simmons?

  I would rather make the counterfeit money. And if I'm already going to jail for being a criminal, at that point, like I'd, I'd wanna try to buy large, large quantities of cocaine and heroin.

• 2:01:14Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 2:01:15Bill Simmons?

  Use the counterfeit money for that to fool the drug dealers, bring the drugs back. Now selling that, now I'm gonna make like quintuple. I'm in the eighties where everybody's doing drugs anyway. I just, I wanted more from Rick Masters. I thought he was a better businessman.

• 2:01:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I just think maybe get a job feels like a better way to do it.

• 2:01:31Bill Simmons?

  Well, like, so the, we're going to Bakersfield to make the money. That's smart, right? He's saving on rent and expenses. He's out of the.

• 2:01:39Chris Ryan?

  He's got low overhead. It's just him and Jack.

• 2:01:40Bill Simmons?

  Low overhead?

• 2:01:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:42Bill Simmons?

  But I just don't see the upside.

• 2:01:43Chris Ryan?

  There's probably not a health plan for those guys.

• 2:01:45Sean Fennessey?

  I think for Rick in particular, there's just a nice crossover with his artistic interests. And the precision that is required to do the work. So it's like, it's kind of an, it's like an artisan. You know, it's like a blacksmith who really loves the work that they do.

• 2:01:59Bill Simmons?

  My other question is, how much did his, uh, bodyguard guy make? How much do those guys make CR? They get a cut of the proceeds?

• 2:02:06Chris Ryan?

  I bet he is.

• 2:02:07Bill Simmons?

  He cut in like, yeah, I signed a new deal. I get ten percent.

• 2:02:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and I bet for a guy like that, probably, like, what are the other career options for him? Right?

• 2:02:16Bill Simmons?

  Probably get out of jail.

• 2:02:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:17Bill Simmons?

  Craig, where do you stand on counterfeiting money and just in general?

• 2:02:20Chris Ryan?

  That whole phenomenon probably passed you by.

• 2:02:22Bill Simmons?

  I don't feel like anybody's doing it anymore because I don't think it was a good business.

• 2:02:25Speaker 03

  Like if you ever.

• 2:02:26Bill Simmons?

  Nobody uses paper money anymore.

• 2:02:27Chris Ryan?

  But have you ever seen like when you go to a bodega or whatever and you pay with a twenty, they like do something with a highlighter on it? See if it's real?

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, that, that rings vaguely familiar, but, uh, you know. Now there's digital counterfeiting. Now you have some.

• 2:02:42Bill Simmons?

  Much better business.

• 2:02:43Chris Ryan?

  I was thinking about.

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  Bitcoin and crypto.

• 2:02:45Bill Simmons?

  That is fun for Rick though, cuz he's an artist.

• 2:02:47Chris Ryan?

  The move in Eyes Wide Shut where Bill is like, gets there in the cab, tears the money in half. And he's like, I'll give you the other half of this when I come out.

• 2:02:56Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:57Chris Ryan?

  And I was like, what if you tried that on a cab driver today? Do you think you would just be like, get the fuck out of my car?

• 2:03:04Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, well, he'd still want to get paid somewhat.

• 2:03:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but like if you were like, here, like you can tape this back together, like wouldn't you, wouldn't he just be like?

• 2:03:11Sean Fennessey?

  He does that when he arrives at the big house outside of the party. I mean, the problem is he's all the way out in bum fuck. Eastern Long Island, so he kind of has nowhere to go. It's a tough one.

• 2:03:18Bill Simmons?

  What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

• 2:03:20Chris Ryan?

  Rick's burned painting before he burns it.

• 2:03:22Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I wrote Masters' art collection.

• 2:03:26Bill Simmons?

  I would, I would want the briefcase that Peterson slams, which we forgot to mention how funny that was, that he's

• 2:03:33Sean Fennessey?

  I love that.

• 2:03:33Bill Simmons?

  For real slamming the briefcase until it opens. I would have that briefcase, but also with the counterfeit money that they made for the movie.

• 2:03:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:41Bill Simmons?

  Inside the briefcase.

• 2:03:42Chris Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 2:03:42Bill Simmons?

  I think would be the sweet spot. I think it'd be cool to have like one dollar bill from this movie that had the X on it.

• 2:03:48Chris Ryan?

  Maybe come with like a poker chip, like the ones they used to beat it up. That'd be cool.

• 2:03:52Bill Simmons?

  Double feature choice. I had Man Hunter. What'd you have?

• 2:03:57Sean Fennessey?

  Thief?

• 2:03:58Chris Ryan?

  Very good.

• 2:03:59Sean Fennessey?

  Or have you, have you seen Boiling Point? The Wesley Snipes movie, which is also about counterfeiting money.

• 2:04:06Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I haven't.

• 2:04:08Sean Fennessey?

  Nineteen ninety-three.

• 2:04:09Chris Ryan?

  I haven't seen this.

• 2:04:10Sean Fennessey?

  Dennis Hopper, he plays a counterfeiter and Wesley Snipes is on his trail. They're very similar. Boiling Point is not as good.

• 2:04:17Bill Simmons?

  Money, are there enough counterfeiting movies for counterfeiting movie month?

• 2:04:21Sean Fennessey?

  Well, we've just knocked one off and I've named the other. Not sure if I can name another. There's gotta be. There's gotta be.

• 2:04:25Chris Ryan?

  Catch Me If You Can is checks. Yeah, does that count?

• 2:04:28Bill Simmons?

  That's true. That was another one. We loved when, in that movie, when he was counterfeiting the checks.

• 2:04:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:33Bill Simmons?

  Maybe I just like counterfeiting.

• 2:04:35Chris Ryan?

  I had a Point Blank, John Borman movie. Kind of has like some of the in, like impressionistic moments of this.

• 2:04:42Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 2:04:44Chris Ryan?

  I think Free.

• 2:04:48Sean Fennessey?

  I'll say Peterson.

• 2:04:49Bill Simmons?

  I think it's one hundred percent Peterson.

• 2:04:52Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:04:53Bill Simmons?

  Because this starts his career and eventually leads to CSI. And him just wandering around Larchmont jogging pants, just throwing twenties at people to get him a Starbucks.

• 2:05:06Chris Ryan?

  Did he do that?

• 2:05:06Bill Simmons?

  No, I'm making that up. Do you think he's ever running a Remar in, in, in the neighborhood?

• 2:05:11Chris Ryan?

  I bet those guys had some war stories.

• 2:05:13Bill Simmons?

  Like, like a handshake?

• 2:05:14Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Maybe they, did you see like the handshake Defoe and, and Jeff have?

• 2:05:18Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 2:05:19Chris Ryan?

  When they're like, kind of like. Pounding, but also like doing a little fummy war action.

• 2:05:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, you think, should we start doing that?

• 2:05:26Bill Simmons?

  Craig, do you want a handshake for when we see each other?

• 2:05:29Speaker 03

  We don't have one.

• 2:05:29Bill Simmons?

  Like LeBron James has with his teammates?

• 2:05:31Speaker 03

  That'd be great.

• 2:05:32Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 2:05:32Chris Ryan?

  But like a full dance move.

• 2:05:33Speaker 03

  There's too many ways for men to dap each other. It's, it's tough. What are you, are you like a bring it in guy? Depends on who you're greeting. It can go all over the place. You could do a stern handshake, you could do the full dap and rap. When you, when you see your father-in-law, what's your move? Uh, handshake into the wraparound hug. You will hit the hug. Yeah, yeah. Good for you.

• 2:05:53Chris Ryan?

  My man radar has been on the fritz recently. I feel like I've gotten hugged when I thought we were shaking and I think I've gone for the shake when, you know what I mean? Like.

• 2:06:00Bill Simmons?

  It's hard to read. I've, I've just been going hugs lately for everybody.

• 2:06:04Speaker 03

  But if you, if you meet someone for the first time, you're just going pure handshake, right?

• 2:06:09Speaker 03

  No?

• 2:06:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, sometimes do the high, high five with the quick, quick hug.

• 2:06:13Chris Ryan?

  Jacoby seems very committed to the fist bump.

• 2:06:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:16Chris Ryan?

  He's stuck with it.

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, safe.

• 2:06:18Chris Ryan?

  But it throws me off because like I'll sometimes go up.

• 2:06:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:20Chris Ryan?

  And like grab his fist. I'm like, this is, I don't even know how we're gonna hang out anymore, you know?

• 2:06:25Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Craig, your thoughts on To Live and Die In A Way?

• 2:06:27Speaker 03

  Man, um, literally the first five seconds of the movie. Do, do, do, do, do. I was like five, five stars.

• 2:06:37Speaker 03

  Uh, it's great. Music's out of control. I, I really, I, I can't tell if I'm starting to develop poor music taste because that kind of music now is really speaking to me. And I'm like going back to that kind of early eighties.

• 2:06:50Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  Kind of music and I find it to be great. Um, but this movie falls in that category of, maybe these don't make a ton of sense, but they do in my brain of like, uh, body heat, American gigolo, blowout, what I wrote it down, body double. I love these like fucked up eighties movies where the city plays a real role in the movie. Like the city is a character. And like you were saying, what was it? Uh, high art, low culture. That sweet spot I really, really like. Um, and this is like as good as it could get. I loved it.

• 2:07:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm not suppressed. There's only a couple of cities that you could do a movie like this to, right?

• 2:07:27Chris Ryan?

  But this is back in the day when you could run and gun in LA and it wasn't.

• 2:07:30Sean Fennessey?

  It's gotta be warm weather. It's a movie about the sun.

• 2:07:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I do like movies where everyone's hot, sweaty. It just works. And it's like, the movie is two things at once. It can be a turn it on, check out, just have a good time. And then if you really watch it, like you guys are saying, even the more you talk about it, having seen it ten plus times.

• 2:07:48Chris Ryan?

  Was Ruth selling out Chance the whole time? Like to who?

• 2:07:52Speaker 03

  There is clear meaning and messaging within.

• 2:07:54Bill Simmons?

  I didn't even think that was a debate.

• 2:07:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think.

• 2:07:56Chris Ryan?

  I mean, she was, but like, who was she calling? Was she calling Grimes? Was she calling Masters? Who was she calling?

• 2:08:00Bill Simmons?

  I think, I mean, the true masterminds of the movie are Grimes and Ruth, right?

• 2:08:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Darla- is it Darlan?

• 2:08:06Sean Fennessey?

  Darlan.

• 2:08:07Speaker 03

  She would have meant a lot to me in 1985.

• 2:08:10Sean Fennessey?

  She's very special.

• 2:08:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes, that checks out. Can I ask, what is the modern comp for this kind of movie? Is it caught stealing?

• 2:08:19Sean Fennessey?

  So one of my other double features was dragged across concrete, which you and I were just talking about, which I think is pretty similar to this, where it's like really nasty.

• 2:08:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:27Sean Fennessey?

  And like, it's more at night instead of during the day, but very beautifully shot.

• 2:08:32Chris Ryan?

  They took a run at this, like, late 90s into the early 2000s, like Narc.

• 2:08:37Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, Narc is a good version of this.

• 2:08:39Chris Ryan?

  What's the one with?

• 2:08:40Bill Simmons?

  What about Rush with Jason Patrick?

• 2:08:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Dude, you wanna do, when are we gonna do Rush, brother?

• 2:08:47Chris Ryan?

  That'll be good.

• 2:08:47Bill Simmons?

  I mean, if we do Rush, Jason Patrick will probably show up and crash it.

• 2:08:50Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think if you were an undercover cop, drug cop, at that time, you would have gone in too deep and not been able to get out?

• 2:08:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you do. What about you?

• 2:09:02Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:09:04Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:09:05Bill Simmons?

  Get in too deep.

• 2:09:06Chris Ryan?

  What would be the point of being an undercover cop? To keep it just shallow enough?

• 2:09:09Sean Fennessey?

  You guys kinda have a heart and chance thing going on now that I think about it.

• 2:09:13Bill Simmons?

  An undercover cop that gets in too deep, but working with a cop who doesn't play by the rules? Has they never crossed those streams before?

• 2:09:22Chris Ryan?

  Oh, a guy who's like, I'm in too deep.

• 2:09:24Bill Simmons?

  They're just both, they're in two separate movies basically, but they're partners?

• 2:09:27Sean Fennessey?

  Right. Yeah, the cowboy and the drug addict.

• 2:09:33Bill Simmons?

  I feel like Sierra's gonna be thinking about this Pankow thing for some time.

• 2:09:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's gonna haunt me all night.

• 2:09:38Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like Pankow might.

• 2:09:40Chris Ryan?

  Eighty-five bulls.

• 2:09:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's why I always feel bad when we talk about, listen, he had a great career.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  I do have to point out, when, when Chance is pretending to be Jessup.

• 2:09:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:50Speaker 03

  Some of the worst tricep extension form I've ever seen.

• 2:09:53Chris Ryan?

  So I was curious about how you felt about doing, doing deals with your boys while, while doing lifting.

• 2:09:58Speaker 03

  It's, it's another great idea for a pod, perhaps.

• 2:10:01Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't think we played that up enough, the lifting scene.

• 2:10:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:05Bill Simmons?

  I'd said it was the most nineteen eighty-five thing about this movie.

• 2:10:08Speaker 03

  They're all incredibly close, like all three of them are within ten feet of one another.

• 2:10:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, you notice there's two other people behind, one of whom is like this jacked female like bodybuilder with bleach blonde hair.

• 2:10:17Speaker 03

  Freaking.

• 2:10:18Bill Simmons?

  Who's just doing this in a mirror and it looks, it honestly looks like there, it's about to be a porn scene.

• 2:10:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he was such a little freak. I love freaking.

• 2:10:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:26Sean Fennessey?

  It's just the weirdest shit in these movies. I cannot get over the flashback to the sex scene in the final minutes, like the final minute of the movie. We even talk about the end when he's like, you work for me now. That's the craziest thing in the world.

• 2:10:38Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 2:10:38Sean Fennessey?

  He's like, I'm your pimp just because my partner died?

• 2:10:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:42Sean Fennessey?

  Fucking nuts.

• 2:10:43Bill Simmons?

  That goes fast with Pankow going dark.

• 2:10:46Chris Ryan?

  The end goes by fast, but I think that's because there was the tension around like the alternative endings and stuff.

• 2:10:51Speaker 03

  I care less even about what actually happens. The movie is more of just a vibe to me. Like watching the last ten minutes, I'm like, I don't even really care.

• 2:10:56Chris Ryan?

  That's what I'm saying. It's like you watch it now and you're just like, oh my God, I can't believe the sign on the bar.

• 2:11:01Bill Simmons?

  The movie's a great hang.

• 2:11:02Speaker 03

  Every room you're in is cool. I literally made a, like halfway through the movie, I realized every single room we're in looks cool for some reason.

• 2:11:07Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:08Speaker 03

  And I tried to think about that for the rest of the movie and it holds true.

• 2:11:10Chris Ryan?

  When he's drinking, uh, Miller and a shot before he rips off Ling, the sign behind him says, uh, Tiempo Dorado Miller. And I was like, that's the best Miller time sign I've ever seen.

• 2:11:23Bill Simmons?

  CR Month, three in the books.

• 2:11:24Chris Ryan?

  Roland, this is part of the LA trilogy we're doing.

• 2:11:27Bill Simmons?

  Do we have one, is it, are we doing five movies or four? We're doing, it's a five movie month. So do we know what the fifth is? Yeah, LA Confidential.

• 2:11:33Chris Ryan?

  Oh, LA Confidential.

• 2:11:35Bill Simmons?

  So Nice Guys is fourth, and then LA Confidential is fifth. So you might join us for that one, if the Oscars doesn't kill you. For LA Confidential? Yeah. Yeah, I'll be down. And Andy Greenwald, it's gonna be the first four person rewatchable we've done in a while.

• 2:11:50Bill Simmons?

  At the other studio. At the other studio.

• 2:11:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I can't wait.

• 2:11:53Bill Simmons?

  More thing. Any other feedback on CR Month before we go?

• 2:11:56Chris Ryan?

  I just really appreciate everybody's kind sentiments. This has been a lot of fun. These movies are awesome.

• 2:12:00Bill Simmons?

  People have been asking for merch. Merch?

• 2:12:03Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 2:12:03Bill Simmons?

  Merch. Do you, what, how do you feel about a Phillies hat but with CR in the Phillies script?

• 2:12:09Chris Ryan?

  I sort of, would the Phillies get litigious about that?

• 2:12:12Bill Simmons?

  I feel like you're a vocal advocate.

• 2:12:14Chris Ryan?

  I am, I am. I believe in everything Dave Dombrowski does.

• 2:12:19Bill Simmons?

  If the Phillies got litigious about that, that'd be fucking bullshit.

• 2:12:22Chris Ryan?

  It'd also be like.

• 2:12:22Bill Simmons?

  How dare they do that to CR Month?

• 2:12:24Chris Ryan?

  It would also be great for the pot. If I got sued into bankruptcy by Dave Dombrowski.

• 2:12:29Bill Simmons?

  Just deepen your folk hero status. You bought the hats with counterfeit money, from your counterfeit money business?

• 2:12:35Chris Ryan?

  And then like, we would have Bryce Harper come on, he'd be like, yeah, fuck Dombrowski. I am elite.

• 2:12:41Bill Simmons?

  Have you followed that story?

• 2:12:45Bill Simmons?

  Great story. That's it for the rewatchables. Thanks to Craig and to Gahow as well, to Eduardo. We'll be back with CR Month, which will be.

• 2:12:53Chris Ryan?

  Nice Guys.

• 2:12:54Bill Simmons?

  Nice Guys, Gosling, Crow. Excited for this one.

• 2:12:58Chris Ryan?

  Me too.

• 2:12:58Bill Simmons?

  See you next week.

• 2:13:10Chris Ryan?

  This is US Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza.

• 2:13:16Speaker 07

  You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart, you are capable, you are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing.

• 2:13:35Speaker 07

  Now streaming. Member FDIC Copyright 2026 US Bank.

• 2:13:40Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lozenges and supplements? Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.