'Sicario' With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey form a special task force and head to El Paso to revisit Denis Villeneuve’s 2015 crime thriller, ‘Sicario,’ starring Emily Blunt, Benicio del Toro, and Josh Brolin. Producers: Craig Horlbeck, Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Matt Pevic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink. Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion. It even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry, get orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard, cider company, LLC. Angryorchard.com. Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.

• 0:44Bill Simmons?

  All right, Rewatchables live. We're just talking basketball here, 3:00 PM Pacific time. I'm Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy, and it is CR month. This is happening. CR, you got your own month. People thought like you're either leaving the ring or dying, and neither. You're healthy. No, you just love me. You're healthy, you're here. You've been pushing for these movies for a long time. Yeah. That's Chris Ryan, you can find him on The Watch. That is Sean Fantasy from The Big Picture. We've been doing the Rewatchables since 2017. This is our first live podcast, right? Yeah, I think so. On Netflix, yeah. All right, here's the part where I awkwardly throw to break, and then we'll be back in one second.

• 1:25Bill Simmons?

  This episode of the Rewatchables is presented by TikTok. The online world moves fast. That's why TikTok approaches teen safety with families in mind. From the start on TikTok, teens get over 50 built-in protections right when they join. Their accounts are private by default, for those under 16, direct messages are turned off. Only friends can comment on their videos. When safety comes first, discovery can follow. Learn more at tiktok.com/guardiansguide.

• 2:14Bill Simmons?

  Sicario is a 2015 American action crime thriller film directed by Denis Villeneuve.

• 2:21Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:22Bill Simmons?

  Written by Taylor Sheridan in his screenwriting debut and starring Emily Blunt, Benita Del Toro, and Josh Brolin. I got that off of Wikipedia. CR, you love this movie.

• 2:31Chris Ryan?

  I adore this movie.

• 2:32Bill Simmons?

  You blogged about it for The Dear Leader Part of Grantland in September of 2015. One of your best pieces of work.

• 2:38Chris Ryan?

  Thanks.

• 2:39Bill Simmons?

  You have been advocating for this, for the rewatchables, for some time. It finished 41st on my most rewatchable movies of the 21st century's ranking, which caused you to jostle angrily in your seat and wonder if it was a bit.

• 2:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Bill Simmons?

  I've watched it three times since. I probably would move it up now.

• 2:57Chris Ryan?

  Top 30?

• 2:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 2:59Sean Fennessey?

  Higher or lower than 16?

• 3:01Bill Simmons?

  Limitless is higher. I've watched it.

• 3:03Chris Ryan?

  You think Limitless is better than Sicario?

• 3:04Bill Simmons?

  I, Limitless, probably is top 12 at this point. What is it? What is it about this movie, CR?

• 3:09Chris Ryan?

  This movie just engages every part of my movie-watching brain. The, every frame of every shot of every scene is interesting to look at. The story, the dialogue, the themes are deeply, like, fascinating to watch play out. And all of the performances are unique and wonderful, but, you know, even though they are expressing like an individual performance, they are all like in sync and in tune with each other. It's just like a perfect movie to me.

• 3:37Bill Simmons?

  And you're a big fan of Dallas Villanova, the director.

• 3:41Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 3:41Chris Ryan?

  Dallas Villanova.

• 3:42Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Jimmy Vills, one of my favorite filmmakers.

• 3:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's got a name like an Islanders forward circa 1983.

• 3:52Bill Simmons?

  He knew Guy Lefleur.

• 3:53Chris Ryan?

  He likes to muck it up in the corners.

• 3:55Sean Fennessey?

  But he's got, you know, he's like a little bit Ridley Scott, a little bit Stanley Kubrick. He's like a really nice little mixture of a filmmaker for me. So I really love his movies. This is by far my favorite of his movies.

• 4:05Chris Ryan?

  This is his best movie.

• 4:07Bill Simmons?

  It feels more timely than ever. Wrote that one down. Things have been happening in in Mexico. And anytime anything happens in Mexico, it's hard not to send your brain back. At from a rewatchability standpoint, which is the whole point of this podcast. This movie has a few different entry points. But you could just start from the beginning and you're just off for five minutes. You can wait a little later until we're doing the drop off or whatever we're trying to do. And we're going through border patrol. We could go to the the guys descending into darkness as we go into the night goggles in the tunnel. Or you could just watch the end as Del Toro takes out an entire crime lord and his family.

• 4:45Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 4:46Bill Simmons?

  Um, four entry points here.

• 4:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you know what? The structure of this movie is pretty fascinating. When I wrote that Grantland piece, I compared it. I compared Sicario to Apocalypse Now, and I still feel like.

• 4:56Bill Simmons?

  I liked it.

• 4:57Chris Ryan?

  It's my, it's our Apocalypse Now. Like it is a movie of our lifetime about a war that is seemingly never ending, that very few people truly understand. And maybe can't be understood. But one of the reasons why I think that that comp holds is the way that it kind of peaks viscerally in the, I think, 31st minute of the movie.

• 5:18Bill Simmons?

  Mm hmm.

• 5:19Chris Ryan?

  And that's not unlike the Flight of the Valkyries scene in Apocalypse Now. And then the rest of the film is much deeper and more contemplative than the that then the rest of the film is just way more contemplative than the beginning of the film. It's way more about this woman learning about the morality and the sense of justice that she's exploring. But like, do you think that that comparison holds?

• 5:45Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, it's not as epic as Apocalypse Now, but I think it's really smart. I mean, I think it's also, I was, I wrote down that I really like a movie with a debrief, where there's like, men go into a room and some men have important information and other men don't have that information and they're being brought into the scheme. And there's a very famous one in Apocalypse Now.

• 6:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Sean Fennessey?

  Where Harrison Ford is sitting there quietly as like a menacing officer. And Martin Sheen's character is brought in and his mission is explained to him. And it's almost like duplicated perfectly in this movie with the setup where we see Kate, you know, sitting outside of the glass room where Graver and the FBI and the DOD and the CIA people.

• 6:25Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 6:25Sean Fennessey?

  And like. It's a movie for, for, for adults, like, and I don't mean that in a sexual way. Like, it's a movie for, like, you wouldn't be nine years old and interested in this movie, really. Yeah, exactly. It's morally complicated, it's about history, it's about like, actual contemporary conflict, to your point. They're very serious. I don't know if it has quite the same level of like,

• 6:46Chris Ryan?

  Mysticism?

• 6:47Sean Fennessey?

  Like opera?

• 6:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Sean Fennessey?

  That isn't Apocalypse Now? You know?

• 6:50Bill Simmons?

  Well, it was made by people who were doing drugs and having a heart attack as they were making the film.

• 6:55Chris Ryan?

  Dennis Hopper is not in it.

• 6:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's more controlled, right? And it's tighter, it's two hours. But I, but thematically, the big idea is like, going to the scary place.

• 7:04Chris Ryan?

  Just going, it's going up the river, it's going through the tunnel, it's arriving on some other side where your, your view of the world has been completely changed.

• 7:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, you left out, also, you have the Kurtz character.

• 7:15Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 7:15Bill Simmons?

  You did this in your blog.

• 7:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:17Bill Simmons?

  Called a blog or an essay?

• 7:18Chris Ryan?

  I was just a blog post, yeah. Just jamming it out.

• 7:20Bill Simmons?

  I would have given you essay.

• 7:21Sean Fennessey?

  What about think piece?

• 7:22Bill Simmons?

  Think piece. But the Kurtz, Del Toro is Kurtz, right? And then Emily Blunt's character just descending into, by the end of the movie, she's just a shivering puddle of, of just,

• 7:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Bill Simmons?

  what the hell is gonna happen in the rest of her life? That's basically Martin Sheen.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 7:40Bill Simmons?

  In Apocalypse. What's gonna happen to him?

• 7:41Chris Ryan?

  It's Wilford, yeah.

• 7:42Bill Simmons?

  He's seen too much, too much has happened, he's lost his mind.

• 7:46Chris Ryan?

  And Brolin is a pretty functional Kilgore character, which is the Robert Duvall character in Apocalypse Now, which is a person who seems to almost get like, a sensory high from being in this incredibly chaotic, incredibly violent world.

• 7:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, reveling in the mania.

• 8:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:00Bill Simmons?

  One of the things I like about this movie is I probably had to see it multiple times before I fully understood what was happening. Cause it's really complicated. And even when you get to the FBI, CIA, CIA part of it all, what they're trying to do with her, the chess game of bringing her in, and the reasons behind that, you're just not gonna really get that on the first, uh, first airing of that.

• 8:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:21Bill Simmons?

  You know what you're gonna get, though? Probably a lawnmower in the background on our live rewatchables. And if to send a text about that one. Good times.

• 8:29Chris Ryan?

  You want us to vamp?

• 8:30Bill Simmons?

  We knew anything could happen.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  This is live.

• 8:33Bill Simmons?

  How about a lawnmower? I had lessons for, uh, from Sicario. Did this for a couple of movies. One lesson is to, uh, tell the lawnmower guy not to be outside the window. I have to do a live pod.

• 8:48Chris Ryan?

  If you want to send a text, Sean and I could keep talking.

• 8:51Bill Simmons?

  Shut the door.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Is that Fransio del Toro on the lawnmower?

• 8:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Bill Simmons?

  It might not be my house. Lessons from Sicario. There's no right, only degrees of wrong.

• 9:02Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 9:04Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes the ends justify the means. Allegedly. Sometimes it's not personal, it's business, it's, I'm sorry. Sometimes it's not business, it's personal. Isn't working when it's really, really personal for the other side.

• 9:19Bill Simmons?

  The personal's gonna trump the business.

• 9:21Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 9:21Bill Simmons?

  Don't expect your movie hero to end up the hero all the time in a movie. This movie sets up the Emily Blunt. Oh, it's gonna be her movie. And it's just not by the end of the movie. America is a little more responsible for the drug war than we want to admit. And then finally, you will doubt everything we do, but in the end you'll understand. Which is an actual quote from Alejandro. And he says it early in the movie, and that's the key quote from the movie. You will doubt everything we do, but in the end you will understand. Do you think she understood by the end?

• 9:52Chris Ryan?

  I think she accepted. I don't know if she understood, but I think she accepted what,

• 9:58Chris Ryan?

  what was going on around her and how she, how she, she was told to play a part in all of this.

• 10:04Speaker 03

  Should, can we talk about Kate?

• 10:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  Is Kate a good character? Kate Mercer, the FBI agent?

• 10:10Chris Ryan?

  She's a little bit of a cipher, I think. You know, I think that, I was thinking about the comparison. I've seen some other folks make it. The relationship between Kate and Alejandro, like the same as Clarice and Hannibal Lecter.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:23Chris Ryan?

  And this idea of like a novice, innocent.

• 10:28Chris Ryan?

  Idealistic person going in and meeting with someone whose experiences will shape her and can are the key to unlocking all of the truth of the world and what happens to that person when you get on the other side. Clarice obviously has like the backstory of her father. There's a little bit more stuff in there about the sexism of the FBI and Kate kind of moves through this movie more or less like a guy. You know what I mean? Like I think Taylor Sheridan has talked a lot about like, everybody's like, how did you write such a powerful female character? And, you know, it's a little bit of a back pat for him, but I, I, I think that she's a good character. She's not a deep character.

• 11:06Bill Simmons?

  He backpatted himself on that?

• 11:08Chris Ryan?

  No, but he was just like, I, I think that he was saying that when he first was pitching this script, a lot of producers or some producers were like, great, can you make Kate a man? And we'll cast this person as Kate.

• 11:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. If this can be Chris Pine, we're good to go.

• 11:21Chris Ryan?

  If you call him Cade.

• 11:24Bill Simmons?

  It just sounds a little Trump-esque where he's like, a lot of people are saying this is a really powerful character. Yeah, they flipped the Clarice Starling thing on us, which makes me think Silence of the Lambs actually weirdly helps this movie. Cause you're watching, you're like, oh, this is the Clarice. She's gonna come in here and, and it's actually not that. And she's just gonna get broken down and be questioning all of her professional decisions by the end of it. I have a bunch of stuff to go through here. The first one is that it was released on September 19th, 2015. Same weekend as The Martian.

• 11:59Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 12:00Bill Simmons?

  We really knew what we were doing 10 years ago, guys.

• 12:03Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, you, you're in my what's age of the worst right now. That The Martian and Robert Zemeckis's The Walk were released on the same day, which means three original adult dramas opened wide against one another in 2015. That would never happen today.

• 12:18Bill Simmons?

  Forgot about The Walk. I didn't even think I ended up seeing it.

• 12:20Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, it turned out to be a dud, but that was like, it's a big movie, you know? It's a remake of a documentary about a famous event that happened, you know?

• 12:26Chris Ryan?

  I forgot about that. Yeah. The, The Martian and, and Sicario, really good comparisons too of my favorite kind of movie, which is basically, it's like Heat, it's like Training Day, it's like Primal Fear or The Firm, where you go in expecting. A baseline like floor of an experience because it's the genre that you like.

• 12:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Chris Ryan?

  And then if you get somebody like Ridley Scott or Denis Villeneuve or Christopher Nolan or Michael Mann directing one of those movies. Like that pop that you feel when you're like, oh shit. This is gonna be even better than just okay.

• 13:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Chris Ryan?

  Like this could be great and you're watching it like. I think I saw Sicario like immediately twice in the theater, which I only do with movies like this.

• 13:08Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, you doubled up?

• 13:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think it was like a real like, I have to go back like in a day or two.

• 13:13Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you were nineteen, two thousand fifteen?

• 13:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Bill Simmons?

  So did you Sicario or Martian?

• 13:19Chris Ryan?

  Martian.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think Martian kinda blew it out of the water a little bit.

• 13:22Chris Ryan?

  I did, I saw them both, but Martian was the one to go out and see first. It was a more commercial movie.

• 13:27Sean Fennessey?

  It was a much bigger hit.

• 13:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Also, like at the time, nobody really knew the director, we just knew him from Prisoners. If you're like for actual mainstream movies.

• 13:36Chris Ryan?

  It was Matt Damon in space versus a gritty movie about the drug cartel.

• 13:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Chris Ryan?

  In the moment, it was easy to choose Martian.

• 13:43Bill Simmons?

  Also, it was a movie with stars, but they weren't stars. They were like that next level down, almost like putting together.

• 13:51Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 13:52Bill Simmons?

  A really good basketball team without a franchise guy. It was Emily Blunt, Josh Brolin, Del Toro.

• 13:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Bill Simmons?

  Daniel Kaluuya, nobody knew who he was at that point. But it's all, Berthold, who was like the Walking Dead guy at that point.

• 14:04Sean Fennessey?

  But this is how.

• 14:05Bill Simmons?

  Very smartly cast.

• 14:06Sean Fennessey?

  It's the kinda movie that makes stars in a way.

• 14:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Sean Fennessey?

  You know, like, obviously Del Toro was extremely well known, had already won an Oscar, but was a perfect use of him. Brolin, you know, had been a part of big movies to that point. You never would be like A plus movie star, but.

• 14:21Chris Ryan?

  This is like Brolin going to another level right here, which is this Everest and he does the cameo at the end of Avengers this year.

• 14:28Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 14:29Chris Ryan?

  And so he becomes Thanos and a giant movie star. Whereas I think from No Country On, it had been like, wow, Josh Brolin's like really good and like you should have it, like he should be in your movie and he's an American gangster and, and milk and stuff like that. But like this is when he starts just going to another level.

• 14:47Bill Simmons?

  This movie did not get nominated for Best Picture.

• 14:51Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think it was even ever really under consideration.

• 14:52Bill Simmons?

  Spotlight won it. Big Short, Bridges of Spies, Brooklyn, Mad Max: Fury Road, The Martian, The Revenant, and Room.

• 14:58Chris Ryan?

  Good movie year.

• 14:59Sean Fennessey?

  Famously a pretty interesting slate and the Spotlight won that year, but like, maybe everybody feels like Mad Max: Fury Road was kind of the way to go this year or that year ultimately.

• 15:08Chris Ryan?

  What a great movie year.

• 15:09Sean Fennessey?

  It was a good year.

• 15:11Bill Simmons?

  You know why Spotlight won? This is what I heard.

• 15:13Chris Ryan?

  Cause they did!

• 15:17Bill Simmons?

  Taylor Sheridan, first screenplay ever. He's a frustrated actor. Kicks off one of the most impactful and lucrative 11-plus year screenwriting runs anyone's ever had.

• 15:28Chris Ryan?

  Amazing what if here because, you know, Sheridan famously like kind of frustrated character actor had been on like Sons of Anarchy and stuff and wanted to write his own material. This is an amazing first script. I read the script.

• 15:42Chris Ryan?

  It's pretty different in not so much in tone, the story and the dialogue is all in the script. They cut so much and that is something that I imagine would not happen today if Taylor Sheridan was writing a feature film.

• 15:57Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 15:58Chris Ryan?

  I would imagine that he would be like, the condition is you shoot this move, this script as is.

• 16:03Bill Simmons?

  Well, we should talk about that because this is the key thing that happened.

• 16:06Sean Fennessey?

  Or it turns into a 10-episode season.

• 16:08Bill Simmons?

  Or there's more dialogue.

• 16:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it just turns into Lioness.

• 16:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they just, even for Del Toro's character, the director cut 90% of the dialogue he was supposed to say because they decided as they're making the movie, it's actually better if he's a little more mysterious and it's the best decision they made.

• 16:24Chris Ryan?

  Incredible decision.

• 16:25Bill Simmons?

  His character, all the little stuff, I think this is one of the reasons this movie's so rewatchable and so good. All the little things they do to set you up. There's a lot of like show don't tell stuff that you could teach in screenwriting classes. Like that, that nightmare that he has in the plane is so important. That could also have been a scene where he's like, yeah, 20 years ago, and he just tells the sob story.

• 16:46Chris Ryan?

  In the screenplay, you see the dream. In the screenplay, his dream is shown.

• 16:50Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 16:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. In the screenplay, the movie opens with like a VO of Alejandro talking about Mexico. Like, there's so much more stuff in the script. It's an interesting document to read. It's pretty widely available on Google, online, to look at.

• 17:04Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like you like this movie, CR.

• 17:05Chris Ryan?

  I do. Dude, this is a really good bit from Villanueva about the screenplay and working with Del Toro. And it's like, Villanueva said, "Dialogue for me is theater, an art for the stage. Cinema is not about dialogue. It's about images and moments and present tense. Benicio can convey way more, by the way he breathes in front of a camera, than any line, the way he portrays tension, the way you feel when you see him." So, so much of this movie that's successful, and parts that I remember, are all like a gesture Roland will make, like when he's just like to dramatically overreact, and he just kind of like puts his hands out a little bit.

• 17:45Chris Ryan?

  And it's like, the hands make it, the like, the pairing it back is what makes it.

• 17:51Sean Fennessey?

  I would also take it one step further and say that the movie is not really very interested in psychology, psychologizing any of its characters. Like, it is not really about explaining backstory, but it's also not even about saying like, what could have happened to this person that made them this way? We know specifically that Del Toro's character has that, and that's the motivating thing. But the first time you watch the movie, you're not like where I land on the movie, which is that this is Benicio Del Toro's movie, like that he is the titular character.

• 18:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:17Sean Fennessey?

  It is about him. And even though Emily Blunt is our perspective character, it's not about her.

• 18:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:22Sean Fennessey?

  She's just caught.

• 18:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it's pretty rare to have a POV character that's not the hero, I think, you know?

• 18:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, there's, you could say there's a theory with this, that she's kind of the audience of the movie. And you're introduced to all this stuff through her, but ultimately, like, she can't do anything.

• 18:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's right.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  You're not kind of the audience.

• 18:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I think that's right.

• 18:40Bill Simmons?

  I don't mind that theory.

• 18:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's a really good structure for the movie and really smart. And I feel like carving away a lot of Alejandro's dialogue makes that actually more coherent as an idea. Because if he's talking a lot and is doing VO and stuff, then you're like, okay, so we're watching a Benicio Del Toro movie, where this woman gets involved in his world.

• 18:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:58Sean Fennessey?

  As opposed to like- A third or two thirds of the way through the movie, you're like, oh, so we're like on Alejandro's mission. He is like the change agent inside the movie. The first, I remember watching it the first time being very confused.

• 19:11Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 19:12Sean Fennessey?

  Um, maybe like a halfway point. And now when you rewatched it again, you see like all the intention, but it's one of those things where you're right. Sheridan didn't have the power back then to say, do my movie the way that you want. You know, I'm not as big a fan of Sheridan's TV shows in part because I feel like he kind of can't get out of his own way sometimes with explaining what he thinks about something.

• 19:30Chris Ryan?

  Well, he's gotten to the point that very few writers ever have where it's just like, he runs the show. I mean, movie making is not a screenwriter's business. TV is, but even TV writers don't have the kind of carte blanche that he seems to when it comes to dictating, like, yeah, we're gonna do 10 hours, we're gonna have, like, if you watch Lioness, Lioness has set pieces that are as expensive as the ones that are in, that are in Sicario.

• 19:57Bill Simmons?

  Once Sheridan figured out how to microdose the limitless drug, it was fucking off for that dude. He's running out of pills.

• 20:04Chris Ryan?

  Do you think he has one that was higher than 16?

• 20:07Bill Simmons?

  There's no question. I think, so you think it's, you think it's Kate's movie? Because Kate's the, in the first scene, and we're with her the whole time, we're following her and the structure of that. Goldman used, Goldman had a thing about this when he did The Saving Private Ryan. The movie starts with Matt Damon's character going to the cemetery, and then the flashback and it flashes back to things he couldn't have known because he wasn't there.

• 20:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Bill Simmons?

  And it's like, the diehard screenwriters, some of them are like, you can't bend the rules like that, because if you're telling the movie through the, through the eyes of somebody, you can't then just shift it the other way. That's basically what they do with this.

• 20:44Chris Ryan?

  This is also like a rule within mystery storytelling where you have to make a decision whether or not you want the audience to know as much as a character or more than a character. And so Sicario kind of plays with that a little bit because midway through the movie, pretty much when Kate goes to the bar with Reg and that's when the burn fall scene, we sort of start watching Kate the way that Kate was watching Alejandro earlier in the movie. And there's even camera moves that kind of suggest that, where it kind of shifts POV to Alejandro and it becomes his mission. And the second half of the movie is really about getting Alejandro to Fausto and all the things that they're gonna do to get him through that tunnel and into that car and into that house.

• 21:27Bill Simmons?

  What's your Del Toro relationship?

• 21:30Speaker 04

  It's a good question. Usual suspects, I guess.

• 21:33Bill Simmons?

  He really slides under the radar. He's.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  I know.

• 21:37Bill Simmons?

  Like two levels below a famous star.

• 21:39Speaker 04

  Definitely. You're never upset to see him in a movie. He elevates every movie he's in.

• 21:42Chris Ryan?

  He won for Traffic. I mean, right? Like, he's, he's a, he's, he's a face and an acting style that is not,

• 21:51Chris Ryan?

  not really in vogue. You know, it's like a weathered, older face, a very,

• 21:58Chris Ryan?

  kind of minimal acting style that's a lot about being quiet and a lot about looks and a lot about gestures.

• 22:03Bill Simmons?

  A lot of staring. He's a very, very good stirrer.

• 22:05Chris Ryan?

  And, you know, like a lot of our big actors now are like kind of glib, one liner machines and, and he's not like that.

• 22:12Bill Simmons?

  He doesn't want to do that. I actually have a little Del Toro game for you.

• 22:15Chris Ryan?

  Okay. Did you name the game?

• 22:17Bill Simmons?

  We've never done this on Rewatchables. Yeah, every decade, if you have at least four straight decades with a banger. So he's got Usual Suspects of the 90s, Traffic 2000s, Sicario 2010s, and then One Battle this decade.

• 22:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 22:30Bill Simmons?

  Four in a row. And it's like, oh, a lot of people have that. You'd be surprised.

• 22:34Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 22:34Bill Simmons?

  Like even if you go to Denzel, where it's like Crimson Tide 90s, we'll give him that, Man on Fire or Training Day in the 2000s. 2010s, Flight, Equalizer. Now we get to the 20s and it's like, all right, Equalizer 3? Kind of out.

• 22:52Sean Fennessey?

  He's just not really a movie star. He's like a, a grade A movie actor. Like he-

• 22:59Bill Simmons?

  Crucial to all of those movies, even though he wasn't the quarterback of the movie.

• 23:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I mean, I worship him. I think he is like one of the most interesting and daring actors. And he is a rare case where you hear a lot of stories about movie stars who get on set and are like, I'm not doing that. And they seem like assholes. And Benicio is very famous for reading scripts, calling filmmakers and saying like, here's what I think this is. This is what my gut tells me. And, and- Paul Thomas Anderson and Leonardo DiCaprio have been very open in promoting one battle after another about how much Benicio changed what they intended to do with that movie.

• 23:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:34Sean Fennessey?

  That the whole Underground Railroad period in that movie.

• 23:38Chris Ryan?

  Back and cross stuff, yeah.

• 23:38Sean Fennessey?

  That all that stuff is the stuff that he came up with and worked out with PTA. Basically, when he arrived on set, because he had no time to prepare because he came right from the Phoenician scheme. And they just like, kind of improvised it in a period of days, and it's the absolute heartbeat of the movie. And if that stuff isn't in the movie, the movie isn't nearly what we feel like it is. And that is like, literally him kind of acting as a writer and coming up with all those ideas for his character. The Sicario stuff is clearly very similar.

• 24:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:03Sean Fennessey?

  Where he and Denis were like, this guy shouldn't talk. And by him not talking, but then he gets like, seven lines of dialogue that are the most memorable lines of dialogue in the movie, and he gets to do the coolest shit.

• 24:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Every line he says is memorable. And even every line he says that's memorable is like, the what he says, the last line he has to Kate, the last line he says to Fausto, you're like, I'm gonna remember that for the rest of, rest of my life. Like, when he's-

• 24:27Bill Simmons?

  Craig, you remind me of my son. He drops that twice on her.

• 24:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:32Bill Simmons?

  It's like his only way to really have a human interaction with anybody.

• 24:35Sean Fennessey?

  But like, you're asking me how a watch works. You know, like, that stuff is just so, because he doesn't talk that much in the movie.

• 24:40Chris Ryan?

  To find him would be to find a vaccine, yeah.

• 24:42Bill Simmons?

  Five Decaders? This is the finals. De Niro, Godfather 2, Midnight Run, Heat, Meet the Parents, and Limitless.

• 24:53Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Limitless counts.

• 24:55Bill Simmons?

  Counts for me.

• 24:56Sean Fennessey?

  Not the Irishman?

• 24:58Bill Simmons?

  I'll give you the Irishman if you want to do the Irishman.

• 24:59Sean Fennessey?

  Killers of the Fire Moon?

• 25:00Bill Simmons?

  Fine. Cruise. Top Gun, Jerry Maguire, Collateral, Edge of Tomorrow, Maverick. Pretty tough to beat.

• 25:08Sean Fennessey?

  That's good.

• 25:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Bill Simmons?

  It's a five banger, five decades of bangers for Cruise.

• 25:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 25:12Bill Simmons?

  We'll see if he can get to six.

• 25:13Chris Ryan?

  Anybody else? Meryl?

• 25:15Bill Simmons?

  You know, Pacino, the 2000s are rough for Pacino. You really have to squeeze two for the money in there.

• 25:22Sean Fennessey?

  What's his 80s pick?

• 25:23Bill Simmons?

  Scarface.

• 25:24Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, right, that's 80, okay.

• 25:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And then, Stallone has Rocky, First Blood, Cliffhanger, 2000s are dicey, and then Creed. But 2000s falls apart a little bit.

• 25:34Sean Fennessey?

  2000s, what is it, like, Daylight?

• 25:36Bill Simmons?

  It's sad how much time I spent researching this.

• 25:38Chris Ryan?

  Stallone makes it before Meryl, though.

• 25:40Bill Simmons?

  Well, Meryl would have Kramer versus Kramer.

• 25:43Chris Ryan?

  70s, right?

• 25:46Bill Simmons?

  Pick a movie in the 80s, you could, there's like, seven of them.

• 25:48Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 25:50Chris Ryan?

  So his choice, yeah.

• 25:51Bill Simmons?

  90s?

• 25:54Bill Simmons?

  Rivers Wild.

• 25:55Chris Ryan?

  River Wild, yeah, that's pretty good.

• 25:57Sean Fennessey?

  Bridges Madison County?

• 25:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, good.

• 26:00Bill Simmons?

  Prada in 2000s.

• 26:02Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 26:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't know what's 2010s.

• 26:04Sean Fennessey?

  Iron Lady.

• 26:05Bill Simmons?

  Post. Iron Lady.

• 26:06Chris Ryan?

  August O'Shea County, right?

• 26:08Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 26:08Chris Ryan?

  When's that?

• 26:09Sean Fennessey?

  No, but it's 2017, but I wouldn't put it up there.

• 26:11Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 26:12Bill Simmons?

  We didn't talk about our director, third line center on the 1978 Habs. Denis Villeneuve.

• 26:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 26:19Bill Simmons?

  Those power plays, he was killed with Pierre Bouchard in Martyr of Troy.

• 26:22Sean Fennessey?

  He's number 13 all time points scored for the Edmunds Oilers.

• 26:25Bill Simmons?

  Great job by him.

• 26:26Chris Ryan?

  All time hockey.

• 26:28Bill Simmons?

  Are you an Incendies guy?

• 26:30Sean Fennessey?

  On Sunday?

• 26:30Bill Simmons?

  On Sunday's?

• 26:31Sean Fennessey?

  Uh.

• 26:32Bill Simmons?

  Never saw it?

• 26:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, it's extremely gnarly. It is a really raw.

• 26:38Chris Ryan?

  His first few movies are fucking disturbing.

• 26:40Bill Simmons?

  Prisoners and Enemy is not a.

• 26:43Sean Fennessey?

  No, Enemy is amazing, please don't.

• 26:44Bill Simmons?

  Liz loves Jake Gyllenhaal, did you sit through Enemy with her?

• 26:47Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 26:48Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 26:48Sean Fennessey?

  Enemy is about.

• 26:49Bill Simmons?

  Jake's really feeling it.

• 26:50Sean Fennessey?

  About the two halves of us.

• 26:52Chris Ryan?

  And a giant tarantula.

• 26:53Sean Fennessey?

  What lives inside of us. Each man have two wolves? Yes.

• 26:57Bill Simmons?

  That was a one timer club for me, I saw that once, not going back.

• 27:01Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 27:02Sean Fennessey?

  That was the one.

• 27:02Bill Simmons?

  I do like Prisoners though, and that will be on the rewatch.

• 27:04Chris Ryan?

  I have some bad news for you about CR month, we're ending with that.

• 27:07Sean Fennessey?

  Oh no.

• 27:09Bill Simmons?

  Well, you told me. So then he has Sicario, then he does Arrival, played Runner 2049, two Dune movies. And now he's going to do, what's his next thing?

• 27:18Chris Ryan?

  Bond.

• 27:18Bill Simmons?

  Good one, Bond.

• 27:20Chris Ryan?

  Dune 3 and then Bond.

• 27:21Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, he's on the mountaintop right now, he's in the top five dudes.

• 27:25Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down, style, feel, mood, substance.

• 27:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, pretty much.

• 27:31Chris Ryan?

  Roger Deakins. Worth mentioning.

• 27:33Bill Simmons?

  Big shot Raj.

• 27:34Chris Ryan?

  Which is our, this will be, this one and then next week, we are doing another Roger Deakins movie. He's out of his fucking mind in this movie.

• 27:41Sean Fennessey?

  Amazing.

• 27:42Chris Ryan?

  Some of the best cinematography I've ever seen in my life.

• 27:44Bill Simmons?

  I don't know how he gets the soldiers to disappear like that. It doesn't seem like it's CGI. When they just kind of walk into the darkness together and then they just kind of fade out.

• 27:52Chris Ryan?

  The absolute last second of sunlight.

• 27:54Sean Fennessey?

  It's dusk.

• 27:55Chris Ryan?

  Out in the desert and they were like, let's go. He also just has that sense of composition that if you watch scenes than any other director of photography or any other director for Villeneuve, not, you know, I think they're both equally responsible for the visual look of this film. Like, even if it's just Kate looking at Graver.

• 28:15Chris Ryan?

  Or actually, there's a good example. The scene that I love, which is like when Graver is talking to all the FBI guys about recruiting Kate. They shoot from behind Matt's head and they hold it there the whole time. Where they're like, hey, then this other guy, Daniel Kaluuya character, he went to Maryland and he's a lawyer from UNC. He goes, no lawyers on this train. And they never cut to his face or anything. And the way they shoot it is like, that's the fucking wizard.

• 28:40Sean Fennessey?

  It's like God. Yeah, exactly.

• 28:42Chris Ryan?

  They're like, what is about to happen? You don't want a lawyer to come. Like, that tells you everything about this character and about what's gonna happen. And it's their choice to frame it. And you can see all the guys in the frame and they're all like, oh shit. They're just like, we're about to send this girl to her death, probably.

• 28:58Bill Simmons?

  Do you think Deacon should have done one movie like That's My Boy with Adam Sandler? It's like, just, just like to test himself?

• 29:05Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, this is a running gag on the big picture, but you know, he comes in as a, as a cinematography consultant on animated movies. And so he has worked on my beloved Rango. And he was like, worked as a kind of ad hoc cinematographer on, on movies that have that tone. So he has done that, actually.

• 29:22Chris Ryan?

  There is like, if you go back to like the eighties and early nineties, some of the great cinematographers, because they were just working way more. It'll be like a run of movies where it's like a camera operator on The Exorcist and like this, this and this. And it'll be like sorority boob fever. It's just like, alright, I guess it was time to pay tuition.

• 29:44Bill Simmons?

  Hey, man. Three kids, I gotta be working. The Emily Blunt run was Devil Wears Prada in 06. That puts her on the map. And then she has a bunch of misses and near misses and it's just not really going. But then from 12 to 15, five-year engagement, loop or Edge of Tomorrow on Sicario.

• 30:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Bill Simmons?

  She's kind of submitted. And that was the run.

• 30:08Bill Simmons?

  I have some casting thoughts on her for a later category.

• 30:11Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, okay.

• 30:12Bill Simmons?

  I think I've landed on, I think she was the right person for this. Cause in my head, I think it was more probably Kate Winslet in the early 2000s would have been like the all-timer for me for this. But I think she was good.

• 30:26Sean Fennessey?

  I think she's very credible as an FBI agent and a person who's like, I'm trained to hold a gun. I can go into these spaces. I think there is some flaw in the writing of her morality, especially in the final third of the movie.

• 30:38Chris Ryan?

  I can't wait to talk about that. Okay, save that.

• 30:41Bill Simmons?

  And then our guy Josh Brolin.

• 30:44Bill Simmons?

  Comes on the map nineteen eighty-five Goonies, which had been floated around for the fourth spot in CR month.

• 30:49Chris Ryan?

  I know, I'm, I'm, I'm available.

• 30:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Bounced around for twenty solid years. It's just, his IMDb is all over the place. Never quite made it. He was a kid actor. Two thousand five Into the Blue.

• 31:02Chris Ryan?

  Hmm.

• 31:02Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if you guys know this movie. Paul Walker and Jessica Alba.

• 31:06Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 31:06Bill Simmons?

  It's basically a rip off of The Deep.

• 31:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:08Bill Simmons?

  Brolin's the bad guy and he's fucking great in it. And I actually liked this movie, but Brolin's like great. And it's like all the seeds of the Sicario guy ten years later is in Into the Blue. But then No Country Oh Six, Gangster W, In the Valley of Vila, Milk, all of a sudden he's Josh Brolin.

• 31:27Bill Simmons?

  And I think this is my favorite Brolin.

• 31:30Chris Ryan?

  Graver, Graver might be.

• 31:31Bill Simmons?

  Attitude and just charisma. And you don't know what he's doing. You know he's dangerous. He seems like he's having unusually great time for the circumstances.

• 31:41Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 31:42Bill Simmons?

  And I just really enjoy every minute that he's in this.

• 31:44Chris Ryan?

  His character's ability to sleep anywhere is very troubling. And it's, it's very indicative of how comfortable he is with everything that's going on, that he's like always like, I'm just gonna steal fifteen minutes of a nap. And it's a great little tick. A lot of the hand gestures are awesome. The flip flops or the, you know, the crocs that he's basically wearing. But he's still a guy who can just go into the tunnel with the Delta dudes and is, is basically like, fine, fine.

• 32:11Bill Simmons?

  I texted you guys, he's, his demeanor has been my professional goal since two thousand seventeen.

• 32:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Bill Simmons?

  Just wanna be like him at all times.

• 32:19Sean Fennessey?

  It's like I used to be a roughneck. If I have to get it on, I will. But I'm wearing flip flops today.

• 32:24Bill Simmons?

  I almost wore slippers on the Lab Rewatchables, just to, just to lay it down like Josh Brolin does in this movie.

• 32:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, he's an actor who just like always should have been forty, you know, and when he was twenty-five, you're like, now you're like kind of obnoxious a little bit. And he plays that really well in Goonies, you know, where he's like the overcompensating older brother who's like, not, doesn't really get on board with the guys.

• 32:44Bill Simmons?

  Also had a famous dad.

• 32:45Sean Fennessey?

  He did.

• 32:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Bill Simmons?

  And his dad's not famous to the Craig generation, but James Brolin was like a real dude for a long time.

• 32:50Sean Fennessey?

  Big star.

• 32:51Bill Simmons?

  So when his son was coming up, it was like, oh, that's, that was a little nepo, I think, thing that was something against him.

• 32:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and I think that it took him a while, and it took Hollywood a while to realize like how to use him. I mean, like, in some ways, I think No Country will probably be the movie I associate him with the most, but like, this is my favorite performance by him, I think.

• 33:12Sean Fennessey?

  I think also you can't really imagine, Matt Greaver's pretty fucking funny. You know, and he's like, maybe Satan.

• 33:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Sean Fennessey?

  Or at least one of Satan's overlords. But he's so charismatic. And whenever he's talking, you're like, that's the truth. There's something really powerful about that, that they like imbue that character with the idea that like, he's really, he's the only one who really knows how it works.

• 33:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I mean, he's gotta be charming enough to like, entice Kate to join them. But also is the guy who will be like, I'm gonna put your ex-wife's name on the internet to John Bernfall.

• 33:43Bill Simmons?

  I almost did this for hottest take, but it's not quite a hot take. Josh Barlow's second best career of any eighties child actor.

• 33:52Sean Fennessey?

  Beyond, beyond Leo.

• 33:54Bill Simmons?

  Leo's doesn't count because he's really a nineties child actor.

• 33:57Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 33:58Bill Simmons?

  I had runners up.

• 33:59Sean Fennessey?

  Fred Savage?

• 34:00Bill Simmons?

  Kiefer Sutherland, River Phoenix, C. Thomas Howell, Bateman, Jason Patrick, The Corries, Charlie Sheen, Christian Slater. I think the only one that beats him is Christian Bale, who counts.

• 34:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 34:14Bill Simmons?

  Cause he starts in eighty seven.

• 34:15Chris Ryan?

  Oh, because of Empire.

• 34:16Sean Fennessey?

  Empire of the Sun, yeah.

• 34:17Bill Simmons?

  The point is, it's very hard to go from.

• 34:19Sean Fennessey?

  River Phoenix would have been there.

• 34:20Bill Simmons?

  I'm a working child actor to, I've avoided all the pitfalls that come with being young and famous.

• 34:25Chris Ryan?

  There's like a fifteen minute, fifteen year wilderness run for him.

• 34:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 34:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:29Bill Simmons?

  And then he landed in the arms of my queen, Diane Lane. Everything was fine.

• 34:33Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 34:34Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, I think Christine, Christian Bale is the only one who's, I think, done better, IMDb standpoint.

• 34:41Sean Fennessey?

  We were just talking about he too the other day, though. It's been a little bit of a rocky road for Bale in the last six, seven years.

• 34:46Chris Ryan?

  He hasn't worked that much recently.

• 34:47Bill Simmons?

  I mean, how much money does he have, though?

• 34:49Chris Ryan?

  I think he likes driving like a Toyota pickup and being chill, you know?

• 34:52Sean Fennessey?

  Bale?

• 34:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:53Sean Fennessey?

  Just like you. It really is the R month.

• 34:56Bill Simmons?

  So we had a soccer game once in like, fourth grade at Brentwood, and he was on the opposite side and the parents, and we won like, six nothing. I was like, fuck you, Batman. Suck on that, motherfucker.

• 35:10Bill Simmons?

  Oscar nominations.

• 35:11Sean Fennessey?

  You said that to his daughter, you said?

• 35:12Bill Simmons?

  No, I was, yeah, I was telling the whole team. Oscar nominations for cinematography score, sound editing.

• 35:18Chris Ryan?

  How did they not get Del Toro in this?

• 35:19Bill Simmons?

  Well, let's talk about it.

• 35:21Sean Fennessey?

  So goofy.

• 35:22Bill Simmons?

  The Bridge of Spies guys wins. I don't think he's winning if we're doing that.

• 35:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Bill Simmons?

  Bale for Big Short, Hardy for The Revenant, Mark Ruffalo for Spotlight, Sly Stallone for Creed. It was just a really good category. He still should have got nominated. Who are you bumping?

• 35:35Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I have a real hot take about this.

• 35:38Bill Simmons?

  Sly.

• 35:39Sean Fennessey?

  I want Sly out and I want Harrison Ford in for The Force Awakens. And I also want Benicio in and I want Tom Hardy out for The Revenant. Which I think is like such a weird, that's an odd nomination.

• 35:50Chris Ryan?

  I know that this is kind of weird, but I would almost, I'm more of a fan of the Tom Hardy in Fury Road than I am in Revenant.

• 35:59Sean Fennessey?

  I feel like he's partially nominated for Fury Road in that spot.

• 36:03Bill Simmons?

  Do you like Tom Hardy in The Revenant?

• 36:05Chris Ryan?

  Versus Benicio in this?

• 36:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 36:07Chris Ryan?

  I'd much rather have Benicio.

• 36:08Sean Fennessey?

  What's your favorite line reading from The Revenant by Tom Hardy?

• 36:11Chris Ryan?

  There's like four lines in The Revenant. I can't think of a single line in the movie, probably, if I had to. It's like, oh, no, a bear.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  I've been scouting it for the rewatchables.

• 36:19Chris Ryan?

  Revenant?

• 36:19Bill Simmons?

  It's a rough watch.

• 36:21Sean Fennessey?

  Not a fan.

• 36:21Bill Simmons?

  Long, long stretches of not a lot going on. Wait, I have a couple more things here. Thirty million dollar budget made eighty four point nine million dollars. Spawned a sequel, which we'll talk about. Sadly, no Roger Ebert review because he died two years earlier.

• 36:38Chris Ryan?

  Did you ask AI to recreate it?

• 36:39Bill Simmons?

  I did.

• 36:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, god damn it, Bill.

• 36:44Bill Simmons?

  I did, sorry, Sean. I know you hate this. Chat GPT said he would probably have given it three and a half to four stars.

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  Well, you should start asking Chat GPT, what would Matt Graver do? In like professional management, like Chris's contract is coming up. What would Matt Graver do?

• 37:04Bill Simmons?

  He would take it for a while to Horace.

• 37:07Chris Ryan?

  We could take him to Tijuana.

• 37:08Bill Simmons?

  Chat GPT said.

• 37:09Sean Fennessey?

  Just keep running down that tunnel.

• 37:10Bill Simmons?

  Ebert valued films that wrestled with ethical complexity and he loved intelligent thrillers with political weight.

• 37:17Sean Fennessey?

  He did.

• 37:19Bill Simmons?

  Somebody who is alive right now, Wesley Morris, who you just saw.

• 37:23Sean Fennessey?

  I did.

• 37:23Bill Simmons?

  You just podcasted with him.

• 37:24Sean Fennessey?

  We did. We had a wonderful pod together. He was in my home last night.

• 37:28Bill Simmons?

  He did a kind of a thumbs up, thumbs down.

• 37:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 37:31Bill Simmons?

  He called it as much a gym selfie as a movie.

• 37:36Sean Fennessey?

  Wesley is so good. That's very funny.

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  His style demands that Michael Mans and Catherine Bigelow's of the world take notice, and they should.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  And he said, every shootout raid and detonated bomb is a dumbbell thrown to the floor and amped up fatigue.

• 37:50Speaker 04

  What does that mean a gym selfie? Like a look what I can do?

• 37:53Sean Fennessey?

  The movie is like a real flex.

• 37:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:54Chris Ryan?

  It's very muscular.

• 37:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 37:57Bill Simmons?

  Ciara's gone to the gym and watched people lift time to time. He loves it.

• 38:02Sean Fennessey?

  Like as a peeping Tom or?

• 38:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. We didn't have to break, right? Can I keep going? Great. We're live on Netflix. Most rewatchable scene.

• 38:12Bill Simmons?

  The opening scene.

• 38:15Bill Simmons?

  Big music, big car crash. We have a near Emily Blunt murder. We have multiple bodies in the wall.

• 38:22Chris Ryan?

  God.

• 38:23Bill Simmons?

  We have people throwing up. And then we have another explosion. We have a crawling guy walking toward two arms.

• 38:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 38:33Bill Simmons?

  And then we have her taking the SoCal shower at the end of it, and we're off. The movie has begun.

• 38:39Chris Ryan?

  It's one of my favorite shots in the movie is her getting all the blood out of her hair. I think is the functionality of this scene is just to make it feel like this is a level of depravity and violence that even these FBI agents and cops are not, not versed in. They're just, this is beyond it. And like all the shots of the bodies in that plastic are just supposed to be like, this is, this is a nightmare come to life.

• 39:01Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's like you're in The Mummy or something. It's a horror movie. And also that it's a war movie. I think it's really important to frame the movie as a war movie. Like Chris's apocalypse now comparison makes the most sense because it is very much about an enemy that you can't see. And the only way you can go get them is to go where they are, which is a very dangerous place.

• 39:17Chris Ryan?

  And it's, they're, they're already, they're already conducting a war. I mean, like they knocked down that wall. Like they, I remember that sound the first time I saw this movie and like the sound of the truck hitting the wall and that guy's whole living room coming down and just like, whoa, what the fuck is this? Like it's, it is a gym selfie.

• 39:34Bill Simmons?

  It's reminiscent of the heat truck in the beginning of Heat, hitting the, uh, hitting the bank armor thing.

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  I'll do this now. It's just some questions about the odor of the 42 bodies in the wall and just people hanging out in the house. Probably like 90 degrees in Arizona.

• 39:51Sean Fennessey?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if there's enough room freshener.

• 39:56Chris Ryan?

  I'm not sure.

• 39:57Sean Fennessey?

  Were they vacuum sealed?

• 39:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like I think.

• 40:00Sean Fennessey?

  What was that? What kind of bag are you talking about?

• 40:02Chris Ryan?

  They're drywalled in. Like, I don't know like what drywall can can prevent scent wise.

• 40:06Bill Simmons?

  You have thoughts on this, Craig?

• 40:07Chris Ryan?

  It's kind of.

• 40:08Bill Simmons?

  I should have you research this.

• 40:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that they're bagged pretty tightly. And so I have to imagine that that was a part of their calculus when they when they were thinking of where to stuff these bodies.

• 40:17Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. Ben left some chicken in the fridge last week in a Ziploc bag and it still smelled after like eight days. These are 170 pound bodies behind a wall. Just, I don't know. I think it would have smelled.

• 40:30Chris Ryan?

  We have these conversations all the time, like with the guys, like the different people in Seven. It's like, how are we not calling?

• 40:37Bill Simmons?

  Getting used to the odor. Maybe your nasal.

• 40:39Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think we should end the episode right now? It's such a flaw that maybe you just throw the baby with the bathwater?

• 40:45Bill Simmons?

  Next scene I have is the ride through Juarez, which includes um

• 40:51Bill Simmons?

  Del Toro saying, "Welcome to Juarez." It's like, thank you. I think Sheridan's borrowed from that in other places.

• 40:57Sean Fennessey?

  So you would not have the meeting Graver scene?

• 41:01Chris Ryan?

  Matt recruiting her.

• 41:02Bill Simmons?

  So I had that on what stage the best, but I'm happy to have it here too.

• 41:05Chris Ryan?

  It's among, it is not the best, it is not the most rewatchable scene, but it is up there for me.

• 41:10Sean Fennessey?

  I love that scene.

• 41:10Bill Simmons?

  There's so much information. Fine, put it in.

• 41:13Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  You got your way.

• 41:17Bill Simmons?

  Our guy Jeffrey Donovan preparing for his shot caller role two years later.

• 41:21Chris Ryan?

  Bottles.

• 41:22Bill Simmons?

  It's brilliant what they do.

• 41:25Sean Fennessey?

  Yellow with red dots?

• 41:27Bill Simmons?

  Next scene is when they're in traffic. Red and Paula, two lanes over. Donovan said, I'm getting a boner.

• 41:37Bill Simmons?

  We have two foursome car shootings plus the ninth guy.

• 41:40Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 41:41Bill Simmons?

  Tries to kill Kate.

• 41:42Chris Ryan?

  The federal police.

• 41:42Bill Simmons?

  This scene's awesome. Del Toro, the way he snaps into action. Also, just get your guns out. And then he's just like, this is great stuff.

• 41:51Chris Ryan?

  Let's talk about it, man. I mean, the thing about this scene. I don't even know if I really realized this until I was watching it for this pod is how you know exactly where they are in relation to where the toll is. Where the other two cars are, they're really clear about it, but also like, there's just very few directors who put you in a space and you are feeling the tension because you're like, I can see how slowly the traffic is moving. The dog is barking. It's hot. People are staring out their car windows and now these guys are over here and this guy's got a full face tattoo and is like looking itchy. And all these guys are like, what's the rules of engagement? Like, what's the,

• 42:33Chris Ryan?

  am I allowed to get out inside a perimeter? You can feel every single part of the elements of that scene. It's remarkable.

• 42:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's really, really well edited. I don't remember. I can't remember a single time when I felt more tense in a movie theater. It's kind of on par with watching Jaws in my house.

• 42:51Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:51Sean Fennessey?

  Where you're like, what the hell is going to happen here? Even though you kind of know what's going to happen, like there's, there's going to be a shootout.

• 42:58Chris Ryan?

  I think it's because Kate doesn't know. I think it's Kate's like, I, we're not supposed to be in Juarez, we're supposed to be in El Paso. Like, I don't really know what I'm doing here. And then this guy's telling me to take my gun out. And it's like she says at the end where she's just like, I'm not authorized to follow. Like, he's a spook, you're a spook. I'm like, I'm not a soldier.

• 43:18Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 43:19Chris Ryan?

  And they're asking her to participate and then she's complicit. Like, she does something in that shootout that essentially seals her fate with these guys for most of the movie. And it's just, I think because she doesn't know what's going to happen, we don't know what's going to happen.

• 43:32Bill Simmons?

  I almost feel like this could be a new rewatchables category, but the guy you mentioned, face tattoo guy.

• 43:37Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:38Bill Simmons?

  I mean, a profile, but I don't know if you could put a scarier guy in the passenger seat. He's just covered, shaved head, itchy, as you said, and he's also holding a gun. It's like, I'm positive this guy's up to no good. This guy's like not headed to a soccer game.

• 43:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think if you were gonna pick a nit, the cartel could have sent a guy like named Neil, who was like working for a sales.

• 43:58Bill Simmons?

  Told him to wear a hat.

• 44:00Sean Fennessey?

  So in that sequence specifically, that those guys are attempting to just get Guillermo back. That they're like, we know that you've taken Guillermo and we have arrived at this place at the same time.

• 44:10Bill Simmons?

  But this is the whole point of why they took Guillermo, because they're trying to lure these guys to cause the ruckus.

• 44:16Chris Ryan?

  I think that they are also, I wonder whether or not it's in play where it's like if Guillermo doesn't make it back alive, better that than he goes to.

• 44:23Sean Fennessey?

  Right, provides information.

• 44:25Chris Ryan?

  And provides information, yeah.

• 44:27Bill Simmons?

  I'm always rooting for Guillermo's because that was my name in Spanish class.

• 44:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 44:31Bill Simmons?

  That was Guillermo, eighth grade, ninth grade.

• 44:33Sean Fennessey?

  How come you didn't stick with it?

• 44:35Bill Simmons?

  ¿Cómo se llama Guillermo? I didn't stick with it. I did seven years of Spanish, never took.

• 44:39Sean Fennessey?

  It's not too late to change it.

• 44:40Bill Simmons?

  Couldn't, just couldn't get over the hump. They always said you had to go abroad and speak it for like two months. And I was just like, I'm, well, I'm gonna miss sports for two months, so.

• 44:48Chris Ryan?

  You're still like that.

• 44:50Bill Simmons?

  Speak?

• 44:50Sean Fennessey?

  You could say at the top of every episode, bienvenidos Guillermo Simmons Podcast.

• 44:56Bill Simmons?

  Guillermo.

• 44:58Bill Simmons?

  A couple of my college roommates still call me Guillermo, actually. Yeah, there you go.

• 45:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's great.

• 45:03Bill Simmons?

  Inside info for you.

• 45:03Sean Fennessey?

  Incredible Juarez cred.

• 45:05Bill Simmons?

  Next rewatchable scene.

• 45:06Chris Ryan?

  You would do great there.

• 45:08Bill Simmons?

  That's it, that's all I got. I'd be very comfortable. Kate and Reggie at the bar into the fight scene. It's hard not to think about CR when you see big bars like this.

• 45:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Bill Simmons?

  People drinking bottles and smoking and playing pool.

• 45:22Sean Fennessey?

  And dancing to country music. That's what I think of when I think of CR.

• 45:25Bill Simmons?

  Kind of wish CR was in the background.

• 45:27Chris Ryan?

  It's a great bar.

• 45:29Chris Ryan?

  It's a great bar, I would tell you.

• 45:31Bill Simmons?

  Reggie busting on Kate.

• 45:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:33Bill Simmons?

  Bet how she's letting herself go is just really good, really good scene.

• 45:37Sean Fennessey?

  Their chemistry is really good.

• 45:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:39Chris Ryan?

  Two Brits.

• 45:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:40Sean Fennessey?

  It's true.

• 45:40Bill Simmons?

  He's not Get Out guy yet. We don't really have a history with him.

• 45:43Sean Fennessey?

  No. You can see though in the movie now, when you watch, you're like, oh yeah, he's fucking cool. He's charismatic.

• 45:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, he's got a lot to him. Yeah, it's a nothing part and he's got a lot to him.

• 45:51Bill Simmons?

  Then Berthold comes in.

• 45:53Chris Ryan?

  Goddamn Reggie! Berthold puts a lot of Texas barbecue on that accent, considering it's taking place in Arizona. He's like, goddamn, you saw me at the softball game?

• 46:08Bill Simmons?

  His chest out, he's peacocking big time.

• 46:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we get pool and country music, we get dancing, and then we get a pretty, pretty heated hook up scene.

• 46:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:20Bill Simmons?

  Followed by her noticing that, wait, this guy has the money clip in his pants, that's probably not a good sign.

• 46:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, rubber bands.

• 46:27Bill Simmons?

  And then she almost gets strangled to death, and it turns out that, uh, Del Toro's been peeping, he's been doing the, how's the peeping, Tom?

• 46:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:35Bill Simmons?

  Tommy, Alejandro, how's the peeping?

• 46:40Chris Ryan?

  He, uh...

• 46:40Sean Fennessey?

  You think this was like a binocular situation, or was he just right outside the door?

• 46:44Chris Ryan?

  I think he's been following her.

• 46:46Bill Simmons?

  Did they also hope this was gonna happen?

• 46:49Chris Ryan?

  I think once she goes in the bank, like Graver says, like, she's like, you used me as bait, and Graver's like, you, you made yourself bait. You went, I told you not to go in the bank, they're gonna be watching you.

• 46:59Bill Simmons?

  I put torturing Berthold in the car, just because I could have watched it for 20 more minutes. At one point, Del Toro just sticks his entire finger in Berthold's ear, I don't know how they did it.

• 47:08Chris Ryan?

  I have Apex Mountain for wet willies, I don't know that it's ever been more powerful.

• 47:12Bill Simmons?

  He's like, ah, goddamn!

• 47:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think Berthold sells it very well, like, he's really working hard.

• 47:18Bill Simmons?

  Do you think he did like, he bent the finger this way, so when he put it in, it seemed, really seemed like it was in there?

• 47:24Chris Ryan?

  Also, Graver's lying about like, I get to decide whether you go to a work camp in Missouri or a kill house like Corcoran, I was like, holy shit!

• 47:33Bill Simmons?

  It's great, I can watch that for five more minutes.

• 47:35Sean Fennessey?

  This movie has a very soft tinge of evil, like, every 20 minutes, it's like, here's a fucked up thing.

• 47:41Bill Simmons?

  Uh, the infrared tunnel sneak attack, we talked about it.

• 47:45Bill Simmons?

  Alejandro goes rogue, grabs a guy, shoots our, shoots our girl Kate twice.

• 47:50Chris Ryan?

  My god, dude.

• 47:51Bill Simmons?

  One of the great, he shot her, but I forgot you're wearing a bulletproof vest and you're not dead, but whatever.

• 47:59Bill Simmons?

  Brolin telling Kate who Alejandro is.

• 48:04Bill Simmons?

  Really good, and then she's like, I'm just gonna go, and he's like, that would be a major mistake. And then I got the dinner scene.

• 48:12Chris Ryan?

  It's the dinner scene, is that what you're calling it?

• 48:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:17Sean Fennessey?

  They're just swung by Houston's.

• 48:19Bill Simmons?

  I'm awarding this the big Kahuna burger award.

• 48:21Chris Ryan?

  That's like calling Mo Green's death like the massage scene.

• 48:24Bill Simmons?

  The big Kahuna burger award for best use of food and drink. Keep eating.

• 48:29Bill Simmons?

  Go ahead and finish your meal.

• 48:30Sean Fennessey?

  What were they eating like lamb shank or something on the meal?

• 48:32Chris Ryan?

  It looked like it was a pork roast or something.

• 48:34Sean Fennessey?

  Pork roast, yeah.

• 48:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it looked like the chef had really put some time in.

• 48:37Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 48:38Bill Simmons?

  Worst dinner guest of all time, CR?

• 48:40Chris Ryan?

  Well. Uh. You know, they're not gonna live to give him a yelp for it, so I don't know what to say.

• 48:47Sean Fennessey?

  Good conversationalist, you know?

• 48:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Sean Fennessey?

  Had a lot of questions.

• 48:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Bill Simmons?

  Just, they're just hanging out, talking about the Mexico national team.

• 48:55Chris Ryan?

  vengeful avenging angels, you know?

• 48:56Sean Fennessey?

  In any other movie, this is the best scene in the movie. And this is somehow the second best scene, maybe the third best scene in the movie.

• 49:01Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 49:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's kind of amazing.

• 49:03Bill Simmons?

  The boom, boom, boom, shooting. I don't know how you do that.

• 49:07Sean Fennessey?

  They're like, we're killing the kid. We're killing both kids. That's also something that 99% of movies just do not do.

• 49:14Chris Ryan?

  And this is the biggest difference between the movie and the script. Script is pretty wonky. He's like, tells the wife to take the kids and like, hope that they become doctors. And like, they, they go run off and then he kills Fausto. And it's like, you have to, you have to have Alejandro completely lose himself in that scene to become like what it is that he's avenging. You know, he has to take from this guy what he took from him.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  Do you think he could have gone a little harder?

• 49:44Chris Ryan?

  How so?

• 49:45Speaker 04

  On Fausto? So Fausto dumped Alejandro's daughter in a vat of acid, correct?

• 49:50Bill Simmons?

  And beheaded his wife.

• 49:51Speaker 04

  And beheaded his wife and he just gets a bullet to the head.

• 49:53Chris Ryan?

  I think that for Alejandro, he's like, you watching your family die is the punishment.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  But even then, he gave him like five seconds to grapple with that. Maybe let it sit for a minute.

• 50:02Chris Ryan?

  Fausto also not, doesn't really make a compelling argument. You know what I mean? He's just sort of like, wow.

• 50:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think he knows what's coming, so he's just trying to get a shot up right before the end there. It's just one last shot on, on the Sicario's life. I think it's just because.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  He's in a hurry.

• 50:16Sean Fennessey?

  Alejandro's worried that somebody's gonna come, so he's gotta make quick work.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Could have been a little bit more sadistic.

• 50:20Chris Ryan?

  The shot, the cut to the wife. When Alejandro's like, don't forget about my daughter. And it cuts the wife and she's like, you fucking killed his daughter. I can't believe this, like, you're gonna get me killed here.

• 50:31Bill Simmons?

  I thought Craig didn't think it was sadistic enough.

• 50:35Bill Simmons?

  Two kids and a wife.

• 50:37Sean Fennessey?

  I brought a vat of acid with me. Can you guys step in here?

• 50:41Bill Simmons?

  Last one is Alejandro comes to get Kate's confession. You were not a wolf. And this is the land of wolves now.

• 50:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:49Bill Simmons?

  Great stare down. So what do you have for most of our watchable?

• 50:52Chris Ryan?

  I have the 21, 22 minute sequence of the border crossing.

• 50:58Sean Fennessey?

  Same. The war is and especially the, on the way back.

• 51:01Bill Simmons?

  Me as well.

• 51:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, okay.

• 51:04Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it is one of the great movie scenes of this century. It is, it is so captivating.

• 51:08Chris Ryan?

  It's my hardest take.

• 51:10Bill Simmons?

  That's it? We just did your hardest take?

• 51:12Chris Ryan?

  No, my hardest take is that this is as good of an action set piece as the bank robbery from Heat. With maybe the, the truck chase from Dark Knight of the last, of pretty much my lifetime, but like the last 30, 40 years.

• 51:25Bill Simmons?

  Not gonna fight it.

• 51:26Sean Fennessey?

  Did we see, we didn't see this together, did we?

• 51:29Chris Ryan?

  It would've been in LA. I don't know.

• 51:31Sean Fennessey?

  It was Grantland times.

• 51:32Bill Simmons?

  We saw The Revenant together.

• 51:33Sean Fennessey?

  We did see The Revenant together.

• 51:34Chris Ryan?

  We saw a lot of movies together.

• 51:35Bill Simmons?

  That was your last month at Grantland, though.

• 51:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 51:39Sean Fennessey?

  But did we see Sicario together? I can't even remember.

• 51:41Bill Simmons?

  I didn't see Scar in the theater.

• 51:43Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, interesting.

• 51:44Bill Simmons?

  Oh, we had fucking All Hell Was Breaking Loose.

• 51:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, yeah, that was a crazy time.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  I'm pro football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of. Major depressive disorder. I carry sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit mddallies.com to watch my story.

• 52:14Speaker 06

  Paid partnership with Johnson & Johnson. Brian Dawkins has not prescribed Caplyta lumateperone.

• 52:26Speaker 07

  I needed more from my antidepressant, so my doctor added Caplyta lumateperone. Proven to provide greater relief from depression symptoms than an antidepressant alone. Building on my progress without starting over. Caplyta is for adults with major depressive disorder when used with an antidepressant and is available by prescription only. Individual results may vary. In clinical trials, weight gain was not common.

• 52:47Speaker 06

  Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Caplyta is not approved for Dementia-related psychosis. Call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. Antidepressants may increase these risks. Report fever, confusion, stiff muscles, which may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. High cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar, which may be fatal. Monitoring is recommended. Common side effects are sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, dry mouth, feeling tired, and diarrhea. These aren't all the side effects.

• 53:13Speaker 07

  Ask your doctor about Caplyta. Learn more at caplyta.com or call 888-252-4824.

• 53:19Bill Simmons?

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• 53:53Bill Simmons?

  What's the most 2015 thing about this movie? It's a tough one.

• 53:57Chris Ryan?

  It's funny to think about all hell breaking loose in comparison to the action of Sakkara. You're like calling Graver like, "Yeah, man, I've had a pretty crazy month. I have a new media company."

• 54:07Chris Ryan?

  It's like, "Wor- I started a war."

• 54:10Bill Simmons?

  Trying to figure out health insurance.

• 54:13Chris Ryan?

  You go, "No, you go, "Signa, it's really hard."

• 54:17Sean Fennessey?

  You think you and Graver would get along?

• 54:18Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would hire him.

• 54:22Chris Ryan?

  Did you what?

• 54:23Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. Just get shit done.

• 54:24Chris Ryan?

  Be the third chair on Game Over?

• 54:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:31Bill Simmons?

  I have younger Burnthall is the most 2015 thing about this movie.

• 54:34Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one.

• 54:34Chris Ryan?

  I got pre-

• 54:35Bill Simmons?

  It's a specific Walking Dead-era Burnthall.

• 54:37Chris Ryan?

  Pre Yellowstone Sheridan.

• 54:39Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 54:40Chris Ryan?

  Where the screenplays are tighter.

• 54:44Bill Simmons?

  What do you have, Sean?

• 54:44Sean Fennessey?

  I have rooting for border-crossing, non-jurisdictional pirate soldier squads attempting to end narco-terrorism with excessive force.

• 54:51Bill Simmons?

  Very 2015.

• 54:52Sean Fennessey?

  Doesn't really feel like something I would root for this year.

• 54:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:54Chris Ryan?

  I also, I mean, of 2015, I had the capacity to be scandalized by the behavior of shadowy elements of the United States government.

• 55:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Chris Ryan?

  Oh, God, knowing that from Craig.

• 55:05Speaker 04

  Pretty much.

• 55:06Sean Fennessey?

  This.

• 55:06Speaker 04

  Even like being surprised that the CIA is involved.

• 55:09Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, right. Yeah. This movie is almost as close to nine eleven as we are to the release of this movie. Isn't that crazy?

• 55:15Chris Ryan?

  Really?

• 55:16Sean Fennessey?

  Like that, like it's, it's fourteen years and eleven years. Like, it's really close now.

• 55:20Chris Ryan?

  God. What stage is the best? I have a couple. What do you have? Uh, movie starts in brilliant sunlight with the bombing at the drug house. Moves to unrelenting darkness throughout the tunnel, culminating with the tunnel. And then that last shot is just, or the last scene with Kayden. Alejandro is all gray. She's wearing gray. The wall is gray. What's happening is gray. It's, it's just a great arc of like cinematography matching story. Um, I think the character introductions in this movie are amazing. Kate in the truck following orders and being a soldier, even though she claims she's not one. Matt kind of directing everything intellectually.

• 56:02Chris Ryan?

  And then Alejandro, I think we see him first as she's pulling up in the Jeep. And he's like, that's my bird dog Alejandro. And he's like, kind of standing behind the plane a little bit obscured. Just awesome. I, I love a great character introduction.

• 56:15Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 56:16Chris Ryan?

  What do you have?

• 56:17Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, drug cartels running entire countries and subverting power structures has aged well. Um, it's still obviously something that is happening right now.

• 56:26Chris Ryan?

  Mister Happy.

• 56:26Sean Fennessey?

  You know?

• 56:27Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 56:28Sean Fennessey?

  The movie is weirdly way out of fashion, but also very accurate, like very accurate at the present times. There's certain things about it. We can talk about what, in what, in what stage the worst that don't make, don't work as well. But then there are a lot of things that are, I think Sheridan's a really interesting cat. Cause he is very, very smart about the way that things are. But he often tries to explain why they are the way that things are in a way that I find a little bit frustrating. But he's really good at being like, nobody else is talking to you about this right now. And I think it's important that we do talk about it.

• 56:58Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:59Sean Fennessey?

  So, you know, it's like, it's in Landman, it's in Lioness, it's in Yellowstone, it's in this, it's in Wind River, it's in, um, Hell or High Water, like especially in his movies, though, he's really good at being like, there's a problem in the country. Whether it be on a Native American reservation, or in the way that banks take advantage of small town people, or the way that the drug war has kind of like subsumed the American military, they're really, really incisive, and he's really, really smart about that stuff. Sometimes he like gilds the lily like five times, but all those movies hold up really well because whatever he was after at the time is on point.

• 57:35Chris Ryan?

  I think that the easy thing to think is that Taylor Sheridan thinks what these guys are doing is cool. And I think that part of that is because of the, like, the weird, ugly beauty that Villeneuve and Deacon's ascribe to the characters. I mean, like, it, it definitely romanticizes to some extent, but like, guys wearing bulletproof vests, and these dudes who know everything and take private jets, you know? But I don't think it's that simple. And I think that this was definitely a time period where he was a little bit more in tune with what was really happening in the world. And maybe like now it's kind of drifted a little bit more to where he's like, yeah, it's like pronouns and oil rigs, that's what's really important. But it's like, this was a little bit more like he had his finger on something.

• 58:20Sean Fennessey?

  I agree.

• 58:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And then he just wrote scripts for nine years in a row without leaving an office.

• 58:26Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 58:26Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 58:27Bill Simmons?

  I have the title for Age the Best. Sicario is a great title.

• 58:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And he like put it in the lexicon now, right?

• 58:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Combined with that, movies that begin with info cards, you're usually in good hands. In Mexico, sicario means hitman. But if the multiple cards, you always know you're in good shape. If I ever make an action movie, I'm gonna have info cards. They called him CR. We talked about the little touches in this movie, like Brolin wearing sandals, the crooked cop when he pours the liquor in his morning coffee.

• 58:59Sean Fennessey?

  He gets caught by his wife.

• 59:00Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, a lot of stuff like that.

• 59:02Chris Ryan?

  There's a moment where, when they're driving into Juarez, she's looking at Alejandro's hands and notices he has a wedding band on. And like, it doesn't get remarked upon, but she's, she just has this great little look at him, like, I wonder who this guy is.

• 59:17Bill Simmons?

  The long payoff with the Mexican cop, I like.

• 59:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 59:21Bill Simmons?

  My wife picked that up yesterday. I've been, never seen the movie.

• 59:23Chris Ryan?

  Kind of the, uh, the Haysbert.

• 59:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Chris Ryan?

  Heat character.

• 59:27Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 59:27Chris Ryan?

  Why, why are we here? What are we doing with this guy? And then it hits at the end.

• 59:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 59:31Bill Simmons?

  And then Berthold, it's just in general, he's done this in multiple movies. Where he's a good guy and a bad guy in the same movie and he can swing. And he also did it in Walking Dead. He's kind of like, this is his move.

• 59:44Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 59:45Bill Simmons?

  It's like, I like this guy. Oh no, I don't like this guy.

• 59:47Chris Ryan?

  Exactly who he is in Wind River, right?

• 59:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Chris Ryan?

  Where you're like, oh, he's gonna be the, the, the bad guy, right?

• 59:51Sean Fennessey?

  He's like it in a lot of things. I think it's because he has like a very like good old boy. Hey, man, I'm here with my buddy kind of energy, but he, there's something very malevolent about him. That like, it pops out really fast.

• 1:00:02Chris Ryan?

  The way that fight plays out is really good because. It's unclear whether he's supposed to, you know, like Alejandro does not think that that, that Ted is an assassin. He thinks he's just there to like, kind of see what Kate knows and see if he can get anything out of her. But it's definitely in play that he's gonna kill her. And when he's choking her out, he seems to be like, I didn't want this to happen. You know, I wanted just to like, find out what you were working on. And now we've gotten to this. It feels like a character out of control. It's just a great performance.

• 1:00:33Bill Simmons?

  I had this later for picking nits with that, uh, strangle scene. What's, what's the move after, all right, I had to kill her. Like, how's he getting out of that one?

• 1:00:44Chris Ryan?

  He's Phoenix PD. I mean, presumably he can figure some stuff out.

• 1:00:47Bill Simmons?

  She's an FBI agent, though.

• 1:00:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Sean Fennessey?

  I think part of the reason why he was a flawed hire on the cartel's part is that he's not really in control.

• 1:00:55Bill Simmons?

  I was, this leads to my larger point.

• 1:00:57Chris Ryan?

  Cartel HR.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  Horrible judgment.

• 1:01:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Bill Simmons?

  Cause that's the other picking net of this is why are you fucking walking around with the cartel? Money band as your, as like your wallet. Maybe like get another wallet.

• 1:01:10Chris Ryan?

  Ted.

• 1:01:10Bill Simmons?

  Come on, Ted.

• 1:01:11Chris Ryan?

  Striking out at slow pitch softball, maybe not like a brain genius.

• 1:01:14Sean Fennessey?

  Good sign. Yeah.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  Jesus, Ted.

• 1:01:15Chris Ryan?

  Maybe not Brad Stevens.

• 1:01:17Sean Fennessey?

  Great.

• 1:01:19Bill Simmons?

  Why'd you trade Jared McCain, Ted? You just got a non-modern pick? What are you doing? Great shot order award, most cinematic shot, we covered it.

• 1:01:28Chris Ryan?

  I got a couple here. It's soldiers disappearing into the setting sun.

• 1:01:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Chris Ryan?

  Or Kate walking across the rooftop to see the fireworks.

• 1:01:34Bill Simmons?

  I like that one, too. Yeah, that's good. Chess Rock World Broccoli Landers Award for best character name, Fausto Alarcorn. No, no. Alarcorn?

• 1:01:42Chris Ryan?

  Uh, Alarcon.

• 1:01:43Bill Simmons?

  Alarcon?

• 1:01:44Chris Ryan?

  I gotta say, though.

• 1:01:45Bill Simmons?

  Did I call him corn?

• 1:01:46Chris Ryan?

  You did.

• 1:01:47Bill Simmons?

  Fausto Alarcorn. I think I ordered that last night. Fausto corn corn.

• 1:01:51Chris Ryan?

  I would say that if your nickname is Medine, you win the Chess Rock World Award.

• 1:01:56Bill Simmons?

  True. Yeah. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for best needle drop. So every time the evil Jaws score kicks in, which we didn't talk about, but but our guy Denny was basically like, hey, can you make a really scary score like in Jaws? And the guy who did the score is like, I'll try. And then it's just fucking awesome. It fills them.

• 1:02:23Bill Simmons?

  It's your guy.

• 1:02:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I mean, this is an amazing piece of music just because you cannot imagine this movie without this.

• 1:02:29Bill Simmons?

  No, it almost wins the movie.

• 1:02:31Chris Ryan?

  Like if they're listening to Slow Ride, you're just like, well, this isn't working. You know, like there's no pop music really in this, except for diegetic stuff. It's great.

• 1:02:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, this is a big moment because we have a new rewatchables category that I didn't even clear with you guys.

• 1:02:43Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:02:45Bill Simmons?

  And I think it's a keeper. It comes from a listener named Abby Soul, who writes, sometimes movies we love carry subtle details or moments that speak to the individual viewer especially. My category idea allows for the rewatchables creator to share one moment or aspect of a movie that speaks to them more than 99% of the viewers. For example, Bill loves Sonny Corleone biting his knuckle when he's mad. C R can't get enough of the Eric Stoltz drug dealer lifestyle in Pulp.

• 1:03:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  So here's my succession, uh, suggestion. The Floyd Gondoli butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. Wow.

• 1:03:23Bill Simmons?

  What a great award. How did we not have this?

• 1:03:25Chris Ryan?

  From this film?

• 1:03:27Bill Simmons?

  So for this, my answer for this, for the Floyd Gondoli award is Gondoli?

• 1:03:33Sean Fennessey?

  Gondoli.

• 1:03:34Bill Simmons?

  Gondoli. Anytime a movie with drug stuff and somebody says in the movie, there's rumors of a tunnel, I'm in.

• 1:03:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Bill Simmons?

  I just fucking love knowing that there might be a tunnel because that means we might be going in the tunnel. And that's my Floyd Gondoli.

• 1:03:54Chris Ryan?

  Do you have one, Sean?

• 1:03:55Bill Simmons?

  You don't need to have one. I didn't prep you for this.

• 1:03:58Sean Fennessey?

  Is this all one game that you've been?

• 1:04:00Chris Ryan?

  Is there really an Abby?

• 1:04:04Bill Simmons?

  I think you guys would like the Floyd Gondoli.

• 1:04:06Sean Fennessey?

  I do. I'm trying to think of a really good answer to this.

• 1:04:08Bill Simmons?

  Well, no, for the next one, when we do the next movie we do.

• 1:04:10Chris Ryan?

  So it's just something you like, you really personally liked from the movie?

• 1:04:13Bill Simmons?

  It just resonates with you only.

• 1:04:15Chris Ryan?

  I honestly, a dude wearing a bulletproof vest who has big horn rimmed glasses.

• 1:04:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I kind of did mine. I said a movie with a debrief. When there's a debrief in a movie and it's like, all these important people are in a room and they're like, this is how it is and this is how we're gonna get the guy.

• 1:04:29Chris Ryan?

  But when you see a geek and he's got like an AR-15 and a bulletproof vest on and he's like, I'm, I'm just hanging out at this air force base. That's like, we're about to get in some shit.

• 1:04:38Sean Fennessey?

  I love, maybe you have this in half ass internet research, but who the Jeffrey Donovan character is like based on visually?

• 1:04:44Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:44Sean Fennessey?

  Is a former Ranger who is in Norman Schwarzkopf's security detail, who is like a bespectacled dude, who is like yoked and very scary, but also a big dork. And that, that fusing those two ideas together to make a character is really interesting.

• 1:04:59Bill Simmons?

  You're up with the Sean Fantasy Award for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

• 1:05:04Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, I don't want to overdo it, but there's three. There's one that's very obvious, which is, um, Del Toro says, keep an eye out for the state police. They are not always the good guys. Of course, Del Toro was state police in Traffic, for which he won his Academy Award. In Thief, there is a moment where, um,

• 1:05:23Sean Fennessey?

  Uh, well, in the movie, Alejandro ignores the maid as he continues clearing the house, which is an homage to the thief, which is something that Frank does in that movie. But the one that I like the most, and I think this is on purpose and I don't know, is the scene that you just talked about with the Mexican cop pouring booze into his coffee in the morning, and his son has his face down on the table, and the father winks at him, and then the kid winks back, which I think is a direct match to Jaws, where Shider's at the table with his son, you know? And they have that moment where they're connecting, he says, "Give us a kiss." And I feel like that's a nod to that.

• 1:05:58Chris Ryan?

  I have one more, which is just when Blunt and Coolia show up at the motel before the tunnel raid. Roland says, "Can I interest you in this tasty beverage?"

• 1:06:07Sean Fennessey?

  Oh.

• 1:06:08Chris Ryan?

  And I was like, "Here we go." Oh. Yeah. You have a flex category, Sierra. Okay. I have a special okay, motherfucker for the exact moment this movie jumps up a level, and it's seven levels of okay, motherfucker around. We're plus seven? Around the Juarez border crossing. Level one is when Alejandro tells Kate he goes where he's sent, and she says, "Where were you sent from?" And he said, "Cartagena." Like, okay. What, okay, motherfucker. Level two is Alejandro neatly folding his linen jacket before the op. Okay, motherfucker. Are you folding your jacket? Okay.

• 1:06:49Chris Ryan?

  Level three, the federal, the Mexican federal police pickup trucks going over speed bumps, and we're in the pickup truck? Yeah. Okay, motherfucker, we're doing this. Yeah. Level four, Steve saying, "Spotter vehicle left lane, I'm getting a boner." Yeah. Okay, motherfucker. Level five, take your service weapon out. Okay, motherfucker. Level six, Steve going, "Gun, gun." And level seven is just the shootout after Alejandro goes, "Do you want to die?" And they do.

• 1:07:26Sean Fennessey?

  You didn't hit us with the loudest.

• 1:07:28Chris Ryan?

  Okay, motherfucker.

• 1:07:32Bill Simmons?

  That was great.

• 1:07:34Bill Simmons?

  Now, we're up to the Butch's Girlfriend Award for Week Link of the Film. This is a pretty strong film.

• 1:07:41Sean Fennessey?

  It is a strong film.

• 1:07:41Bill Simmons?

  I would volunteer this. I think you really need to understand the CIA, FBI mechanics of what's really going on here to fully understand this movie. And I'm not possible, sitting in the theater in September 19th, 2015, for the first time watching this. You can comprehend everything that's happening.

• 1:08:02Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:02Bill Simmons?

  I do think it's a multiple watch before you really get it movie.

• 1:08:07Sean Fennessey?

  They do give you the one scene where Victor Garber explains what is going on, which is very helpful.

• 1:08:14Chris Ryan?

  It's like, I can't, I didn't dream this up.

• 1:08:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 1:08:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Sean Fennessey?

  They're like, this is above my pay grade aspect of that speech where-

• 1:08:21Chris Ryan?

  People who are elected, not appointed.

• 1:08:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yes. I think is very well written. I think Victor Garber is the perfect actor for it.

• 1:08:28Bill Simmons?

  So goodness.

• 1:08:29Sean Fennessey?

  I, I do think that it's like, it comes a little late in the movie and maybe that's on purpose.

• 1:08:34Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:08:34Sean Fennessey?

  But it takes a long time for us to kind of figure out those relationships.

• 1:08:37Bill Simmons?

  So basically CIA can't do assassinations.

• 1:08:41Chris Ryan?

  They can't operate within the domestic United States.

• 1:08:43Bill Simmons?

  FBI gives Brolin's team cover, because now it's a cross department.

• 1:08:49Chris Ryan?

  It's a task-

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  Semi-legal task force. And everything went great until Kate went the wrong way in the tunnel.

• 1:08:55Chris Ryan?

  I wouldn't say it went great, but yeah.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, but you know what I mean? Like, they were about to pull off what they wanted to without Kate being like, wait, what's happening?

• 1:09:02Chris Ryan?

  She goes into the tunnel that she has been used, because in the motel-

• 1:09:06Bill Simmons?

  But if she takes a left, we're probably, she's not as distraught-

• 1:09:11Chris Ryan?

  She'd just be like, where's Alejandro?

• 1:09:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Like, oh, yeah, he had to run. He had a fantasy draft.

• 1:09:15Chris Ryan?

  Before they go-

• 1:09:18Bill Simmons?

  Premiere link starts Thursday.

• 1:09:20Chris Ryan?

  Is it Drake May or what? In that first, that motel scene, she's like- He's like, we're going on this op, you guys stay behind. And she's like, yeah, well, we can't fucking go because we didn't bring our stuff because you didn't tell us that this is what was happening. So, but all he basically needs is her sign off. And that's when he reveals that the CIA can't operate domestically without FBI attached.

• 1:09:41Bill Simmons?

  But I think that would be the weak link, just that this is a pretty dense movie that of with a lot of themes that are hard to just embrace the way you would embrace some other. When you're watching Heat, you know what's happening in Heat the first time you watch it, heat right there.

• 1:09:56Sean Fennessey?

  I think to me, the weak link of the movie is always, and I think this is a five star movie, so it's kind of not a big deal, but her still being insistent on doing things the right way, even after she's been in the tunnel. And she's like, I'm gonna tell on you.

• 1:10:10Bill Simmons?

  I had that in my biggest nitpick.

• 1:10:11Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a little like, okay.

• 1:10:13Chris Ryan?

  He just doesn't let her go, like walk away from that. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it is, it is a nitpick of mine as well.

• 1:10:21Bill Simmons?

  What's age the worst? I'll do one quick. And it's weird because she smokes in real life. I didn't like Kate smoking in this movie.

• 1:10:30Chris Ryan?

  I thought she was pretty good, but maybe British.

• 1:10:32Bill Simmons?

  I put a Tom Cruise, which end do I light award for terrible on screen smoking. I just didn't think.

• 1:10:39Chris Ryan?

  Have you ever smoked an Indian Creek?

• 1:10:41Bill Simmons?

  No, what are those?

• 1:10:42Chris Ryan?

  I think they're bigger in the southwest. I'm not, I haven't.

• 1:10:45Bill Simmons?

  Are they longer, fatter, shorter?

• 1:10:47Chris Ryan?

  No, they're just, they're just like a gas station cigarette. You know, it's like, go get them.

• 1:10:51Sean Fennessey?

  What's your policy on smoking mid pod?

• 1:10:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, they can't fucking stop us. We're live, brother.

• 1:10:57Bill Simmons?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:10:58Sean Fennessey?

  Like if I just pulled out some Indian Creeks?

• 1:11:00Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. There's just something, but it's weird because I researched it and she does smoke in real life, but I didn't like three puffs. I didn't like the way she threw it. Probably not still. She's got kids now, but I think back in the day, plus she's English. All.

• 1:11:12Chris Ryan?

  I think she, the only time I'm ever like reminded that Emily Blunt is probably much more delicate than Kate is when she lights a cigarette for some reason.

• 1:11:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Chris Ryan?

  It's like a very cool like way of lighting a cigarette.

• 1:11:26Bill Simmons?

  I had the handball game that they show as they're driving in.

• 1:11:30Sean Fennessey?

  That aged the worst.

• 1:11:31Bill Simmons?

  No, I could have used like 10 more seconds.

• 1:11:33Chris Ryan?

  Shouldn't that have been Ed Norton?

• 1:11:34Bill Simmons?

  I was really enjoying it. I was like, this is great. These guys are going at it.

• 1:11:38Chris Ryan?

  That'd be funny if that was what Benicio was like, welcome to ours.

• 1:11:41Bill Simmons?

  Welcome to ours. Hold on. I just want to see who wins this point.

• 1:11:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, not the hanging guys, just the handball game.

• 1:11:46Bill Simmons?

  We mentioned Crooked Cop Ted wandering around with a suspicious cartel money band in his wallet. And then Sicario 2 Soldado, it's fine. Don't have the same director or screenwriter.

• 1:11:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, got it. It does have the same screenwriter, doesn't it? Isn't it Sheridan?

• 1:12:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Chris Ryan?

  Stefano Salima directed it, yeah.

• 1:12:05Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. It's a cable movie.

• 1:12:07Chris Ryan?

  It's a pretty good movie.

• 1:12:09Sean Fennessey?

  Chris is a big fan.

• 1:12:10Chris Ryan?

  It just deepens the Graver side a lot, which is fascinating to me.

• 1:12:14Bill Simmons?

  It's fine.

• 1:12:15Sean Fennessey?

  It's one of the most evil movies ever made.

• 1:12:16Chris Ryan?

  It's fucking diabolical.

• 1:12:17Sean Fennessey?

  It is crazy.

• 1:12:18Bill Simmons?

  I had one more, but what did you have for what's yours?

• 1:12:21Chris Ryan?

  Well, when you're watching it, and I know it's supposed to be a joke between the two coworkers, but like the idea that 2015 Emily Blunt is supposed to be this like ratty piece of shit that no one wants to date is pretty wild. He's like, yeah, your fucking eyebrows are all out of control.

• 1:12:36Bill Simmons?

  It's tough.

• 1:12:36Chris Ryan?

  You're like, alright, man, that's fucking Emily Blunt.

• 1:12:38Bill Simmons?

  It's tough.

• 1:12:39Chris Ryan?

  They kind of skirt past the like Alejandro's Cartagena cartel connections. Like they, I know that he says like he works for anybody who will put him in the like, point him in the direction of the people who made him. But I think it would have been a little bit helpful to like learn a little bit more about like, so the United States government is working in concert with the remnants of the Colombian cartels to reestablish their control of the, that is what we're doing. Okay.

• 1:13:09Sean Fennessey?

  I do think that that is ultimately what the movie is saying. I think that that's Graver's point of view, that that is the approach that the CIA is taking to keep order, which is, which sounds horrible, but there is a significant amount of evidence to suggest that these kinds of things have been done in American history. So it's not that crazy. I don't know. I don't know if it's aged, I don't know if it's aged the worst so much as it's like, you gotta get on board with that idea for the movie to seem credible.

• 1:13:33Chris Ryan?

  The only other thing I would say is aged the worst is that in the screenplay Reggie, the Daniel Kaluuya character, his last name is Wayne, which just feels like Taylor Sheridan was watching a Colts game. It was like, good name, Reggie Wayne.

• 1:13:44Bill Simmons?

  Or didn't like the Colts.

• 1:13:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:13:46Sean Fennessey?

  Could be.

• 1:13:46Bill Simmons?

  Do you have any?

• 1:13:48Sean Fennessey?

  Well. Juarez, which is portrayed as the scariest city on earth.

• 1:13:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:53Sean Fennessey?

  Was not really happy with the movie.

• 1:13:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:56Sean Fennessey?

  And, you know, Sheridan has said that it was like 2010, 2011 when he was writing the screenplay, which is when the city was really in very, very dire straits with the drug war. And in 2015, it was like starting to improve. Um, and its crime rates were changing. And then now I just read that it is now fallen out of the top 15 most dangerous cities in the world.

• 1:14:16Chris Ryan?

  Wow.

• 1:14:16Sean Fennessey?

  It has fewer than 1,000 murders per year.

• 1:14:18Chris Ryan?

  Pretty significant if it was number three for a while.

• 1:14:20Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's, I mean, it was, it was one of the five most dangerous places to live for like 30 years. And it, it, the city has changed a lot. And so because of that, and you can like read all about this in all the El Paso newspapers and stuff. The movie has like, it does feel like more of an artifact of a time for that city. It doesn't mean that the drug wars is still happening.

• 1:14:37Bill Simmons?

  2015 thing.

• 1:14:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:40Chris Ryan?

  Although broadly speaking, El Mencho recently making some headlines, like I think that the, the violence is still.

• 1:14:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the Mexican drug will trade is still very much happening. Um, I think just in general, I, you know, the drug war itself is like, as the eternal quagmire of American life is still going on. And then we, we mentioned the Martian and the walk thing, which is so fascinating.

• 1:15:02Bill Simmons?

  My last thing, and it, it might be a possible new word, but I was thinking about Emily Blunt, the hookup scene with Berthold. They're really going at it. And anytime I watch something like this, I always think about what it's like for the husband or the wife.

• 1:15:16Chris Ryan?

  Krasinski.

• 1:15:17Bill Simmons?

  Of the person in the scene.

• 1:15:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:18Bill Simmons?

  And in this case, I was thinking about Krasinski, just like Sicario premiere. So just to warn you, there is a kissing scene with Berthold and then you're watching that on a 55 foot screen. What are your next like three minutes?

• 1:15:30Chris Ryan?

  I think it's why he became Jack Ryan and got fully yoked is because he couldn't handle seeing that.

• 1:15:35Sean Fennessey?

  It's probably something to that.

• 1:15:38Bill Simmons?

  What are your thoughts, Craig? I mean, this is why you're here for important questions like this.

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  How you can get over this as the husband of him.

• 1:15:43Bill Simmons?

  I don't understand it either.

• 1:15:44Speaker 04

  No, you can't come.

• 1:15:45Bill Simmons?

  I'm not like a crazy jealous person. I just think to watch somebody.

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  Well, it's why actors.

• 1:15:49Bill Simmons?

  Really go at it with your wife.

• 1:15:50Chris Ryan?

  This was also supposed to be a nude scene, which they got out of the movie.

• 1:15:53Bill Simmons?

  That's even worse.

• 1:15:54Speaker 04

  It's why actors date actors, you know? It's like, I can understand because I've been in these scenarios. If you get to hook up with Berthold, I get to hook up with somebody else.

• 1:16:02Chris Ryan?

  It's not even hooking up too. It's also then he chokes her out. Can you imagine being at the post premiere party and just being like, hey, man?

• 1:16:09Speaker 04

  It's like doctors date doctors because they're the only ones who really knows what it's like. You, I, actors have to date actors.

• 1:16:14Bill Simmons?

  Well, I was, I don't know what the award would be, but maybe it's a, the movie theater cuck award goes to John Krasinski, just watching this going, why? Why you didn't tell me this was in here? Why?

• 1:16:28Sean Fennessey?

  The only good use of AI would be putting Krasinski in the George C. Scott in hardcore scene. That actually, that I would enjoy.

• 1:16:36Bill Simmons?

  Then I was trying to think what would be the worst one to be the husband in the theater for, and there's just a lot of candidates, so let's move on.

• 1:16:44Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:16:45Bill Simmons?

  The Ruffalo Hannah Rubenek Partridge over acting award.

• 1:16:48Chris Ryan?

  Pretty, pretty understated.

• 1:16:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, this is a pretty mellow movie.

• 1:16:52Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, guys, it's burnt though. Like, let's, what are you kidding? Burnt though, the finger in his ear?

• 1:16:56Bill Simmons?

  Oh, in the car?

• 1:16:57Chris Ryan?

  I'm him over my head. Yeah.

• 1:17:00Bill Simmons?

  You have a flex category, Sean.

• 1:17:03Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I chose when would I have died? And I wrote down the first scene, the second scene, the third scene, the fourth scene.

• 1:17:10Chris Ryan?

  You'd die when Matt Graeber was just asking guys stuff?

• 1:17:13Bill Simmons?

  That day, you just died.

• 1:17:14Sean Fennessey?

  It would have been tough. I don't think I would have been able to hang in in this movie.

• 1:17:17Bill Simmons?

  I think I would have bought it in the tunnel.

• 1:17:18Speaker 04

  How bad do you think two shots to the chest, wearing a vest, hurts?

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  That would have been a good door flares to work.

• 1:17:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was what I was thinking about.

• 1:17:27Sean Fennessey?

  You want, you want to try it?

• 1:17:28Speaker 04

  Well, is that like something that anybody can do and like an hour later, you're fine? Or is it like you're out for a week?

• 1:17:33Chris Ryan?

  She's still wheezing when she's talking to, to Graeber.

• 1:17:37Speaker 04

  Are we talking like broken ribs?

• 1:17:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I definitely think so.

• 1:17:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Chris Ryan?

  She has, when we see her in her apartment after he's come back, I don't think she's like been on the jobs.

• 1:17:46Bill Simmons?

  It could be a new Ringer, maybe a new Ringer video series.

• 1:17:49Speaker 04

  The new intern each summer?

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  We just shoot people.

• 1:17:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, does a capella. Two in the chest with Craig Horlbeck.

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  Truth or DeHarrison? Truth or two in the chest?

• 1:18:01Bill Simmons?

  The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, how does take a word? I ever really, you did rears.

• 1:18:06Chris Ryan?

  I kinda did mine. The other one I had was just that this movie is like an excellent allegory for American foreign policy since the Cold War. That it's like you take advantage of a.

• 1:18:16Bill Simmons?

  Strong use of the word allegory.

• 1:18:17Chris Ryan?

  Thanks, brother. It's CR month. I gotta bring, bring it.

• 1:18:20Bill Simmons?

  CR month.

• 1:18:21Chris Ryan?

  You take advantage of a crisis or a tragedy and you prey on the personal or collective desire for justice among the population, or in this case, in Kate, and use overwhelming military force to bring an end to the chaos and violence, only to be exposed for having ulterior motives. Not that I'm saying the United States does that.

• 1:18:42Sean Fennessey?

  No, you would never. Not on Netflix, you wouldn't say that.

• 1:18:44Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:18:45Bill Simmons?

  Do you have a hottest take?

• 1:18:46Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the success of Yellowstone is the biggest loss for movies of the last decade.

• 1:18:50Bill Simmons?

  There you go. That's a great hottest take.

• 1:18:52Chris Ryan?

  You've been circling this.

• 1:18:53Sean Fennessey?

  It's, it's the most emblematic thing. This is like, this guy was like, I, maybe I'll be William Goldman. He was like, mm, just kidding, I want to be David E. Kelly. It's like, that's fucking boring.

• 1:19:01Speaker 04

  Are there any other examples of that, starting at prestige and premium and kind of like going the other direction? Not that Yellowstone is not prestige, but you know.

• 1:19:10Chris Ryan?

  A movie screenwriter who then just becomes like a TV writer? I mean, Pizzalotto, I think writes, is he very future star?

• 1:19:19Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell you who's an interesting example is Mike White.

• 1:19:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Bill Simmons?

  Mike White.

• 1:19:23Sean Fennessey?

  Now, the White Lotus is still very prestigious.

• 1:19:25Bill Simmons?

  Survivor 50 is Mike White.

• 1:19:27Sean Fennessey?

  But jacked.

• 1:19:29Bill Simmons?

  Jacked.

• 1:19:29Chris Ryan?

  Unreal.

• 1:19:30Bill Simmons?

  So proud of himself.

• 1:19:31Sean Fennessey?

  Crazy. I would be ripping my shirt off, too.

• 1:19:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:34Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that that was related to going on Survivor, or was he just like, I'm gonna get yoked up?

• 1:19:38Bill Simmons?

  I think he's, I think he got yoked up because he's a wealthy guy who was gonna be in Survivor and was like, I didn't like.

• 1:19:45Chris Ryan?

  Would you do that if you were going on Survivor?

• 1:19:46Bill Simmons?

  Last night. I wouldn't go because I have contact lenses.

• 1:19:50Sean Fennessey?

  What do you, I noticed in Survivor 50, there was a, was it Stephanie who has glasses on sometimes, but not all the time, which leads me to believe that she does have contact lenses there?

• 1:19:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I was, I think, are you reacting to the not being allowed to have contact lenses? Or?

• 1:20:03Bill Simmons?

  I just don't feel like that. I feel like I'd have an eye infection the first week.

• 1:20:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Bill Simmons?

  Also the allergies.

• 1:20:08Chris Ryan?

  I would just flip out because of the nicotine thing.

• 1:20:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'd be chucked in.

• 1:20:12Sean Fennessey?

  If you could bring Zen, you would go on Survivor?

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  I would just give a vote out first, because by like hour nine, I would be like motherfucking people like throwing games.

• 1:20:18Bill Simmons?

  You can't find out what's going on in sports on the island either, right?

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I think I would, if being on Survivor would, it has to take a little bit of pressure.

• 1:20:26Bill Simmons?

  Tatum's coming back on Friday night!

• 1:20:28Speaker 03

  So wait, you-

• 1:20:29Sean Fennessey?

  You can't take thirty-five days off from this.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  They're like, you can have a steak dinner or find out who won Celtics Sixers.

• 1:20:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would be trying to win the challenges.

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  What if that was your letters from home?

• 1:20:39Bill Simmons?

  You'll find three sports tidbits.

• 1:20:40Speaker 03

  Your letter from home was just, Thursday, February ninth, Celtics won oh four, Nets eighty-nine.

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  I thought I would have told my, I definitely told my wife.

• 1:20:51Speaker 03

  Five percent.

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  You would have told Carrie, fit as many scores as you can onto one page.

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  Dear Dad.

• 1:20:57Bill Simmons?

  The Patriots signed Alec Pierce.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  Oh my god, that would be so funny.

• 1:21:00Bill Simmons?

  You finally have a big play receiver.

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  And you're just sobbing, I knew Tatum was coming back! Everybody else is like, dude, it's from my box.

• 1:21:11Sean Fennessey?

  You should, if you, if you go on Survivor and-

• 1:21:14Bill Simmons?

  Just sports.

• 1:21:14Sean Fennessey?

  Know the episode where like, family could visit, you should have Chris come in.

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  SG, what the fuck?

• 1:21:20Sean Fennessey?

  You can update Joe on everything.

• 1:21:21Speaker 04

  You guys traded a first for AJ Brown, he's like, no!

• 1:21:24Speaker 03

  You're not gonna believe what Yasmine did on the season finale of Industry.

• 1:21:29Sean Fennessey?

  I've been circling the five feet, remember that scene?

• 1:21:31Bill Simmons?

  Yasmine is now Jelaine Maxwell.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  You just spoiled Industry for him.

• 1:21:37Bill Simmons?

  Sorry, guys.

• 1:21:40Bill Simmons?

  My hottest take.

• 1:21:43Bill Simmons?

  Benicio del Toro, uh, doesn't get enough credit for being a legendary stick man.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:21:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, never mentioned when they talk about-

• 1:21:51Sean Fennessey?

  Is that a thing known about him?

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  The big celebrity ladies man, uh, seriously dated Valerie Galena in the late eighties, the lady from Rain Man.

• 1:21:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 1:22:00Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the lady from Hot Shots.

• 1:22:01Bill Simmons?

  Claire Forlani in the mid nineties. Chiara Mastriani, late nineties, daughter of Catherine Deneuve. Sophie Doll in the early two thousands, dated Catherine Keener, Sarah Foster, and Kimberly Stewart. Also dated Heather Graham in the late nineties. Had flings with Alicia Silverstone in the mid nineties, Lindsay Lohan in the mid two thousands, and Scarlett Johansson in the, in two thousand and four. Benicio, just keeps it quiet like it's Sicario, just takes care of business, nobody knows what he's up to.

• 1:22:30Speaker 03

  I hope they save this for his lifetime achievement award.

• 1:22:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:33Speaker 04

  Lindsay Lohan?

• 1:22:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just, it's all, you can find all of it on Google.

• 1:22:37Sean Fennessey?

  Did they do a film together?

• 1:22:39Bill Simmons?

  I just think he was in the circles.

• 1:22:41Sean Fennessey?

  He was hanging out.

• 1:22:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Sean Fennessey?

  He starred with Alicia Silverstone in Excess Baggage, you may recall.

• 1:22:46Bill Simmons?

  Once you get vetted by a couple, it's just you're off.

• 1:22:48Chris Ryan?

  And she's in Alligator, right? With him?

• 1:22:53Chris Ryan?

  Isn't she the wife in Alligator?

• 1:22:54Sean Fennessey?

  Reptile.

• 1:22:54Chris Ryan?

  Reptile, sorry.

• 1:22:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, Reptile. Have you seen Reptile on Netflix?

• 1:22:58Chris Ryan?

  Really good.

• 1:22:59Sean Fennessey?

  Very, very like, I think you would like it if you haven't seen it. Benicio is a murder cop.

• 1:23:04Bill Simmons?

  I haven't seen it. It's on my list.

• 1:23:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:06Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it was like kind of critically reviled, but Chris and I had a text message one night. It was like, you see Reptile? Yeah, bro. We were like, yeah, it's pretty fucking good.

• 1:23:12Chris Ryan?

  And it's like sneaky, it's like two and a half hours long.

• 1:23:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's very long.

• 1:23:16Bill Simmons?

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• 1:24:00Bill Simmons?

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• 1:24:49Bill Simmons?

  Casting what ifs.

• 1:24:52Bill Simmons?

  Josh Brolin turned that in the film because he had just done Everest. And then Big shot Raj, Roger Deakin, sent him an email imploring him to join and Brolin changed his mind.

• 1:25:00Chris Ryan?

  Said, "Stop being an asshole."

• 1:25:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Said, "Come on, mate." That's all I have for casting what ifs.

• 1:25:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, there wasn't that, it seems like this was kind of like-

• 1:25:08Bill Simmons?

  Nah, we need 10 more years, then it'll be like Leo DiCaprio almost did it.

• 1:25:11Chris Ryan?

  Do you have, or do you want to wait, but I was curious whether you had some alternatives for Blunt?

• 1:25:17Bill Simmons?

  I really didn't, and I, and I looked hard, and I looked at all the best actress, best supporting actress nominations. Tried to figure out the ages and all that, and could have come up with a better one, because you go like Anne Hathaway, I don't see it.

• 1:25:32Bill Simmons?

  The Amy Adams, no. Like, you go on through and then-

• 1:25:35Sean Fennessey?

  Well, there's a big sliding door here, which is that she doesn't do Black Widow for Marvel, and Scarlett Johansson does it.

• 1:25:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:43Sean Fennessey?

  And is there a world where that's reversed and it's Scarlett, could Scarlett Johansson be?

• 1:25:49Bill Simmons?

  I just think Scarlett Johansson by 2015 has built up so much leading actress sexy cred that I don't think you could just buy her in this movie out of nowhere.

• 1:26:00Chris Ryan?

  Also, Emily Blunt benefits from Edge of Tomorrow coming out a year and a half before.

• 1:26:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Sean Fennessey?

  Totally agree.

• 1:26:05Chris Ryan?

  You buy her physicality this movie.

• 1:26:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I do think though, if you Time Machine Kate Winslet in like 2005 and put her forward 10 years, that's the perfect one. I think this would have been, and it's a little like the Mayor of Easttown character, a tiny bit, like the beaten down, I think she would have been great. But I think she's a little older at this point, because this character needs to be what, like?

• 1:26:25Chris Ryan?

  I think she's like 30.

• 1:26:27Sean Fennessey?

  29, 30. 30, yeah, it feels like 30.

• 1:26:28Bill Simmons?

  So, I couldn't come up with a better answer.

• 1:26:30Chris Ryan?

  She's been married and divorced in this movie, but yeah.

• 1:26:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Best that guy word, Jeffrey Donovan is not eligible and neither is Victor Garber.

• 1:26:38Sean Fennessey?

  Maximiliano Hernandez.

• 1:26:40Bill Simmons?

  So what else is he in?

• 1:26:41Sean Fennessey?

  The Mexican cop, he's in the Marvel films, he's in Hydra.

• 1:26:44Bill Simmons?

  Oh, see, I didn't, I didn't-

• 1:26:45Chris Ryan?

  Oh, is that the guy who talks to Alejandro and is like, "I'm sorry about your kid," no, wait.

• 1:26:48Sean Fennessey?

  No, no, the cop.

• 1:26:49Chris Ryan?

  Oh, Silvio.

• 1:26:49Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, Silvio, yeah, the bald cop.

• 1:26:51Speaker 04

  You guys do realize that 99.9% of society could not name Victor Garber, right?

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think, I think the real answer is Victor Garber.

• 1:26:57Chris Ryan?

  We're, we're at a kind of a-

• 1:26:59Sean Fennessey?

  A famous stage actor who was on Alias for like 10 years.

• 1:27:02Chris Ryan?

  But could they say that's Victor Garber?

• 1:27:04Speaker 04

  I think it's Victor Garber. Or they say that's the guy from Alias.

• 1:27:06Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:27:07Bill Simmons?

  I think it sadly is Victor Garber.

• 1:27:08Sean Fennessey?

  That's Sidney Bristow's dad.

• 1:27:11Bill Simmons?

  Dion Waiters award is, uh, burnt off, I think.

• 1:27:15Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I got Donovan.

• 1:27:17Sean Fennessey?

  I have Donovan too.

• 1:27:18Bill Simmons?

  Over burnt off?

• 1:27:19Chris Ryan?

  Donovan's like, I have gonorrhea and I'm like the world's greatest killer, like, and he's in three scenes.

• 1:27:25Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a, I'm a CR.

• 1:27:26Bill Simmons?

  I voted for burnt off, but I got voted.

• 1:27:28Chris Ryan?

  When they, when they're about to waterboard Guillermo and he's like, I'm gonna step out of the room. Turns the camera off. It's like the most chilling shit.

• 1:27:37Speaker 04

  What's going on in that scene?

• 1:27:39Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 1:27:40Speaker 04

  There's, there's, there's like questioning about what he's actually doing, what Alejandro is doing when he gets up close to him.

• 1:27:45Chris Ryan?

  I think it's supposed to emasculate him.

• 1:27:47Speaker 04

  Is it intimidation or does something actually happen?

• 1:27:49Chris Ryan?

  Oh, no, he's not gonna do anything.

• 1:27:51Sean Fennessey?

  He's just taunting him.

• 1:27:52Chris Ryan?

  Sexual to him. Is that what you're talking about?

• 1:27:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:54Chris Ryan?

  No, yeah. I think he's gonna waterboard.

• 1:27:55Sean Fennessey?

  You mean just like drop his balls on his head? What do you mean?

• 1:27:58Speaker 04

  Like, if you read the Sicario Reddit thread, a lot of people think he like sexually assaults him.

• 1:28:04Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:28:04Chris Ryan?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:28:05Speaker 04

  No?

• 1:28:06Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was supposed to be.

• 1:28:06Speaker 04

  Putting his crotch in his mouth.

• 1:28:08Chris Ryan?

  Sexually emasculating him.

• 1:28:10Sean Fennessey?

  You think that would be crossing the line for Alejandro? Not the waterboarding or mass murder?

• 1:28:15Speaker 04

  Well, and that the idea was that.

• 1:28:17Chris Ryan?

  Not the child executions?

• 1:28:18Speaker 04

  Reddit was speculating.

• 1:28:19Bill Simmons?

  People really think that?

• 1:28:20Speaker 04

  Well, that he brought in the water jug to pretend as though he's gonna go waterboard him and that's what the cameras see. And then when they turn the cameras off, he does something else.

• 1:28:27Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I think the water's going into the drain.

• 1:28:29Speaker 04

  There's no water going down the drain.

• 1:28:30Chris Ryan?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:28:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:31Speaker 04

  I showed the drain deliberately.

• 1:28:33Chris Ryan?

  I don't, I don't know.

• 1:28:34Sean Fennessey?

  I guess that's fair.

• 1:28:34Chris Ryan?

  I didn't think that. I didn't think that's why they were.

• 1:28:37Sean Fennessey?

  It's all in play with Alejandro, you know?

• 1:28:39Chris Ryan?

  Sure. That was, that's interesting though, Craig. Thanks for bringing that to our discussion.

• 1:28:43Speaker 04

  It might be sexual assault.

• 1:28:44Bill Simmons?

  I think he would have brought the sisters in though.

• 1:28:47Chris Ryan?

  From Shawshank?

• 1:28:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think he would have come in and said, I could be a real friend to you.

• 1:28:52Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think he should be able to jump from movie to movie?

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  No water. I don't know.

• 1:28:56Bill Simmons?

  Uh.

• 1:28:57Chris Ryan?

  This is, does it, I, in my mind, I thought, I guess I thought I, I heard water.

• 1:29:01Bill Simmons?

  CR's done for the podcast. This is blue as per.

• 1:29:03Sean Fennessey?

  No, no.

• 1:29:04Bill Simmons?

  It's like, I don't know if I like Alejandro as much.

• 1:29:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, now I'm, now he's really like disappointed.

• 1:29:08Bill Simmons?

  Now I'm disappointed in a recasting couch director city. Uh, instead of Juarez, can I float Philadelphia?

• 1:29:15Chris Ryan?

  Real nice.

• 1:29:17Bill Simmons?

  They're trying to get Embiid out of Philly?

• 1:29:18Chris Ryan?

  Really classy. It's CR month and you're already taking shots at me? Philadelphia.

• 1:29:23Bill Simmons?

  Trying to get A.J. Brown to, to an AFC East team?

• 1:29:26Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:29:27Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Craig, you have a flex category. Do we have Craig's special camera or no?

• 1:29:30Chris Ryan?

  Jerk off.

• 1:29:34Bill Simmons?

  CR, if they could just yell at me.

• 1:29:37Speaker 04

  I want to implement a new, a new tool for the show. And you know, this, you guys are the preeminent counsel for Hollywood.

• 1:29:44Chris Ryan?

  From the producers of AI Roger Ebert?

• 1:29:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  As the Hollywood czars, I think, you know, tomorrow, March 3rd is the, is the NFL franchise tag deadline.

• 1:29:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:54Speaker 04

  Franchise tag, you can prevent a player from getting a second contract somewhere else and they have to stay on your team. I think there should be a movie franchise tag.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:30:02Speaker 04

  And for Sicario, the movie comes out, you guys get to vote. Oh, they want to make Sicario 2? I'm sorry, there is literally a franchise tag on this movie.

• 1:30:13Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so it's like a committee, almost like in college football. There's 10 people on it.

• 1:30:17Speaker 04

  When this, when I heard about the sequel, I was so disappointed. I'm like, ah. And it's like, oh, you want to make Devil Wears Prada 2? Sorry, it's been franchise tagged. Five movies a year that you actually get to put the stamp on, no sequels.

• 1:30:27Sean Fennessey?

  Wow, well.

• 1:30:27Speaker 04

  A literal movie franchise tag.

• 1:30:29Sean Fennessey?

  You are the rare.

• 1:30:30Bill Simmons?

  I really like this idea.

• 1:30:31Sean Fennessey?

  Full throated Sicario 2.

• 1:30:32Chris Ryan?

  I would say I'm closer to the guy on the Jags who was like, I'm getting, I'm moving up to get Travis Hunter. And that we didn't go far enough. Like, we should already be on Sicario colon capos, which is what the third one's supposed to be called. We should be, there's no reason that we have not gotten a third Sicario movie yet. If you're gonna break the seal, like, we should be on Sicario 4 by now.

• 1:30:55Bill Simmons?

  But why, why aren't we just on the best version of a prestige TV series with Sicario? Like, why aren't we in, like, season 8?

• 1:31:02Chris Ryan?

  Benicio Del Toro's not gonna do that.

• 1:31:05Bill Simmons?

  Is he? He's not?

• 1:31:06Chris Ryan?

  I don't think so.

• 1:31:08Sean Fennessey?

  He's in one battle after another.

• 1:31:09Bill Simmons?

  Did you think Billy Bob Thornton would be in three TV shows at this point?

• 1:31:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I think he likes hanging out and playing music and making some money and.

• 1:31:17Bill Simmons?

  I think we could have gotten Del Toro.

• 1:31:18Chris Ryan?

  Del Toro's not doing TV.

• 1:31:19Sean Fennessey?

  I'll do it. I'll play Alejandro. I can do it.

• 1:31:22Chris Ryan?

  Now that you found out that he's a sexual deviant, as well as a child murderer.

• 1:31:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it seems more approachable, yeah.

• 1:31:29Bill Simmons?

  So what else would you franchise tag from this year? It's also, it's like a franchise cross off.

• 1:31:35Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, Sinners 2 is coming.

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  Yes, you franchise tag that. Come on.

• 1:31:39Sean Fennessey?

  That's gonna happen.

• 1:31:40Bill Simmons?

  That's a tag.

• 1:31:41Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, there's, not next, it's gonna be Twilight Zone and Black Panther 3, but I mean, there's just way too much money there.

• 1:31:48Chris Ryan?

  So you think they'll set it in the 90s where they're hanging out?

• 1:31:50Sean Fennessey?

  I think, I think they should.

• 1:31:51Speaker 04

  Ugh, like Barbie, you franchise tag. I don't want to see another Barbie.

• 1:31:54Sean Fennessey?

  They only made Barbie to make more Barbies.

• 1:31:56Speaker 04

  Sinners, you have to franchise tag Sinners.

• 1:31:58Chris Ryan?

  Franchise tag Oppenheimer?

• 1:32:02Speaker 03

  No. I want Oppenheimer 2.

• 1:32:04Bill Simmons?

  What's Oppie 2 about?

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Uh, he's just like teaching after that, right?

• 1:32:08Bill Simmons?

  That'd be a great movie. It's like Dead Poet Society with Oppie.

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  But with Oppenheimer.

• 1:32:14Bill Simmons?

  I wouldn't franchise Tag Limitless. I could do like three more. Yeah. Did you watch the show? No, the show, it wasn't. Who was the star of the show? I don't know.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  But Coops is like in it briefly, right?

• 1:32:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he does a stop by. Half-Assed Internet Research, the border crossing scene, they had to build a full-scale replica of the Juarez border because they couldn't figure out how to pull it off with all the days they would have to stop traffic. They asked for permission, right? And they were like, nope.

• 1:32:44Bill Simmons?

  Like, thanks anyway.

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  Can we close the US-Mexico border for multiple days?

• 1:32:48Bill Simmons?

  They're like, actually, you can't. The thermal vision shots were filmed with an FLIRSC 8300 thermal vision camera.

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  What Gao is using for us today.

• 1:32:58Bill Simmons?

  Not added in post-production. That would have been sick if this was infrared.

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:03Bill Simmons?

  They only had it for one day.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  That's a good Gondolia word, night vision. There's night vision, I'm in.

• 1:33:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah. A props man heated the soles of his shoes to see the footprints. I love that. Yeah, great stuff. The word sicario derives from the Latin word sicarius, meaning daggery man. And then Emily Blunt got so sick from food poisoning in Mexico, she required IV fluids between takes to make it through scenes. And then, uh, there's a part in the tunnel scene, after the tunnel scene, Brolin's telling Kate about Alejandro, and he pauses for a second or two and talking about her going up the wrong tunnel. And he said in an interview, he paused because he forgot his lines. And he literally froze for like two seconds, but then in the cut, it actually worked. So great.

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:52Bill Simmons?

  For their fight scene, Bernthal assured Blunt that he was an experienced boxer and she could hit him at full strength, which she did. She does really take a shot at him, yeah. The Wild Pony Bar was in Los Lunas, New Mexico, 29 miles south of Albuquerque, 425 miles from Tucson, where it was supposed to be. Closed down in 2015 after a fatal gang shooting occurred between the Bandidos and the Poor Boys. Can't have nice things. Now, it's called The Horseshoe. It's a public meeting place. I don't know what a public meeting place is. I don't know either. I saw that and I was just like, do we have to go investigate this? What's happening?

• 1:34:24Sean Fennessey?

  Live rewatchables there.

• 1:34:25Bill Simmons?

  Public meeting, like? Like smoke Indian creaks and drink beers, or is like, let's have a? You just kind of meet? Folk dancing festival. Like a fantasy baseball draft there?

• 1:34:38Sean Fennessey?

  Should we do fantasy baseball this year?

• 1:34:40Bill Simmons?

  Please no. Oh, for the Ringer?

• 1:34:43Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I'm thinking about it.

• 1:34:45Bill Simmons?

  You know I'm in that crazy Alcibi.

• 1:34:47Sean Fennessey?

  I got dead last. Why am I not invited? Hyphens is not invited.

• 1:34:51Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you just want to leave those guys out because you got screwed? Can't have hyphens. Wait, no, like for the sake of the narrative. Apex Mountain, would you say blunt here or would you go quiet place? I? Or would you go day after tomorrow? Or edge?

• 1:35:08Sean Fennessey?

  I would say quiet place.

• 1:35:10Bill Simmons?

  It's probably quiet place. I think quiet place. This is a more interesting, I know that she's an incredible actress.

• 1:35:16Sean Fennessey?

  I love her. It's kind of sad. I think we're what's been going on the last five years. I don't really like the choices she's been making.

• 1:35:22Bill Simmons?

  You don't like Oppenheimer in Smashing Machine?

• 1:35:24Sean Fennessey?

  I think she's the worst thing in Smashing Machine, straight up.

• 1:35:28Bill Simmons?

  I want to see her have fun in movies. I really like Five Year Engagement. I think she's good in it. But I don't want her to be in? I want to make three more of those. In Jungle Cruise.

• 1:35:34Sean Fennessey?

  That's, I don't, that's, yeah, I have not enjoyed that stuff.

• 1:35:37Bill Simmons?

  She's good in Fall Guy. I like that movie.

• 1:35:39Sean Fennessey?

  She is, okay. They tried. They like, that's a swing and a miss and I like that they tried.

• 1:35:46Bill Simmons?

  Did you see Project Kill Mary yet?

• 1:35:48Sean Fennessey?

  I did. I liked it quite a bit.

• 1:35:50Bill Simmons?

  Heard it was good.

• 1:35:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:51Bill Simmons?

  The gas is back, man. Fucking gas.

• 1:35:54Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, it's really good.

• 1:35:57Bill Simmons?

  Juarez, Apex Mountain, probably not.

• 1:36:01Chris Ryan?

  I mean, represented on film, I think it, you know, put it on the quote unquote map.

• 1:36:05Bill Simmons?

  As a movie location.

• 1:36:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:06Bill Simmons?

  Brolin, I think it's that run after No Country when he was W and he was in like nine movies at once.

• 1:36:13Chris Ryan?

  That this is Apex.

• 1:36:14Bill Simmons?

  I would if it made 200 million, but it made 89.

• 1:36:17Chris Ryan?

  At the end of this year or whenever that, whenever Ultron comes out and he does the cameo at the end.

• 1:36:20Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's Infinity War.

• 1:36:22Chris Ryan?

  You do?

• 1:36:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I think the, the.

• 1:36:25Bill Simmons?

  What year is Infinity War?

• 1:36:26Sean Fennessey?

  2018. The level of success of that Avengers movie and him being the big bad that the whole thing is centered around and every character says his name. Now granted, he's CGI in the movie, but he, it is unmistakably Brolin, even though he's like a giant purple alien. I don't know.

• 1:36:42Chris Ryan?

  Can I tell you a story really quickly?

• 1:36:43Bill Simmons?

  Is that a Marvel movie?

• 1:36:44Sean Fennessey?

  It is, yeah.

• 1:36:44Chris Ryan?

  It's, you know, Thanos and he puts the glove on. Do you know the glove with the gems in it?

• 1:36:48Bill Simmons?

  Sure.

• 1:36:49Chris Ryan?

  The Infinity Stones, the Infinity Gauntlet.

• 1:36:50Bill Simmons?

  Totally.

• 1:36:51Chris Ryan?

  I was driving down Santa Monica yesterday and I was at a red light and a gentleman who'd probably seen better times in his life was riding a bicycle past me and he stopped on the sidewalk and reached down for something and I was like, I wonder what this guy's up to. And he picked up the, the glove from the.

• 1:37:08Sean Fennessey?

  Infinity Gauntlet.

• 1:37:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, the Infinity Gauntlet. And he was like looking at it and I was like, what if it's the real gauntlet? Like what if this guy just found the stones? No, but there was something in it. Like I think he was doing a drug deal, but like it was pretty amazing.

• 1:37:25Sean Fennessey?

  Was he hiding heroin in it?

• 1:37:27Chris Ryan?

  Whatever he found in there, he was excited. Yeah.

• 1:37:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:30Sean Fennessey?

  And it was, it was Brolin?

• 1:37:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it was, it was Brolin.

• 1:37:32Sean Fennessey?

  It was Brolin.

• 1:37:35Bill Simmons?

  Cartel movies?

• 1:37:37Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:37:39Bill Simmons?

  Trying to think, what's the competition?

• 1:37:40Sean Fennessey?

  I mean Scarface, of course.

• 1:37:43Chris Ryan?

  It had been largely Narcos, you know what I mean? Like on, I can't remember when Narcos debuted. I think after this, uh.

• 1:37:49Bill Simmons?

  I would have Scarface over Sicario. Just because it has a longer tail, it's forty-three years of people watching Scarface versus ten for Sicario.

• 1:37:58Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:37:58Bill Simmons?

  But ten years from now, I'm willing to look at it.

• 1:38:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I mean, do you consider like Carlito's Way a cartel movie?

• 1:38:05Chris Ryan?

  Not really, more of a, more of a New York crime movie.

• 1:38:08Sean Fennessey?

  There's not a lot of great movies set in this. I mean, obviously, Vincent Chase's masterpiece, Mete E.

• 1:38:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:38:17Bill Simmons?

  Forgot about that.

• 1:38:19Sean Fennessey?

  Who could forget?

• 1:38:20Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Vats of Acid as a plot device?

• 1:38:23Chris Ryan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:38:24Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if we've topped it.

• 1:38:25Sean Fennessey?

  I'll say Tim Burton's Batman.

• 1:38:27Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:38:28Sean Fennessey?

  Joker goes in.

• 1:38:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh, good point.

• 1:38:29Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  Del Toro?

• 1:38:31Chris Ryan?

  I guess Traffic is his apex mountain because he was in the Oscar for that.

• 1:38:36Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:38:36Chris Ryan?

  Traffic made more money than this, probably, I would imagine.

• 1:38:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, probably Traffic. He's been pretty much dope for twenty years now, though. Like, every time he shows on the screen, they're like, oh, hey, Veniseo movie.

• 1:38:47Bill Simmons?

  Kaluya?

• 1:38:48Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:38:50Bill Simmons?

  Dead people buried in walls?

• 1:38:52Chris Ryan?

  Probably.

• 1:38:53Bill Simmons?

  Can't think of it more effective. I really like when the bullet and he's looking through, he's like, what the fuck? Uh, Burnthall, no. Tunnels?

• 1:39:03Chris Ryan?

  Great Escape?

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  It's either this or Fast Five.

• 1:39:06Chris Ryan?

  You don't think The Great Escape is more significant than Fast Five?

• 1:39:13Chris Ryan?

  Or the tunnel in Shawshank?

• 1:39:15Bill Simmons?

  Mount Tunnelmore. Oh, Shawshank?

• 1:39:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:18Bill Simmons?

  Fast Five, Great Escape?

• 1:39:19Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:20Bill Simmons?

  Sicario, where the gun?

• 1:39:22Sean Fennessey?

  One battle.

• 1:39:22Bill Simmons?

  Mount Tunnelmore.

• 1:39:23Sean Fennessey?

  Leo crawls through the tunnel under his house.

• 1:39:25Chris Ryan?

  That's right.

• 1:39:28Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, some good tunnels.

• 1:39:30Bill Simmons?

  Dinner scene executions?

• 1:39:32Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 1:39:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:36Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, the menu. Right, there's a lot of executions there.

• 1:39:41Bill Simmons?

  And then Jeff Donovan, I still have Shotcaller.

• 1:39:44Chris Ryan?

  Since you mentioned Jeff, you mentioned the dinner scene execution?

• 1:39:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:48Chris Ryan?

  And it is your month. Can I just throw one more flex category in there?

• 1:39:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:52Chris Ryan?

  Because I did want to talk about this a little bit, which is the, I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for craziest quote. Telling a guy a time to meet God before you kill his family is like as hard as it gets.

• 1:40:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:03Chris Ryan?

  You wanna say apex mountain for hardness at the dinner table like about like, if, if, can you imagine?

• 1:40:09Sean Fennessey?

  I'll tell a quick true story that just happened two hours ago. I pulled up to your house and I was shoveling a salad in my face so that I could get some food in me before this recording. And parked right outside the place and a car rolls up next to me, drops its window. It's Chris. He turns to me. He says, time to meet God. Then he drives away.

• 1:40:30Chris Ryan?

  There's also a really good, I used to fuck guys like you in prison, quote, when the Delta guy holds Reg down when Graver and Kate are going at it. And he just goes, just lay back and let it happen, baby. It's like, what?

• 1:40:49Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:40:50Chris Ryan?

  I, I don't know.

• 1:40:52Sean Fennessey?

  Hanks as Graver, Cruise as Alejandro.

• 1:40:56Chris Ryan?

  Cruise as Alejandro.

• 1:40:57Bill Simmons?

  Oh, doing like the collateral cruise?

• 1:40:59Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, doing Vincent.

• 1:41:02Chris Ryan?

  I'm trying to imagine him saying you were in the land of wolves now.

• 1:41:05Sean Fennessey?

  I think he could do it.

• 1:41:06Chris Ryan?

  Kate, you're in the land of wolves now, Kate.

• 1:41:09Sean Fennessey?

  He couldn't sell the South American aspect of it, obviously.

• 1:41:12Bill Simmons?

  Cruise is the Berthold part?

• 1:41:14Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 1:41:15Bill Simmons?

  Cocktail Cruise?

• 1:41:16Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but as Frank T J Mackey. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:18Chris Ryan?

  That'd be pretty good.

• 1:41:19Bill Simmons?

  I don't think there's place in this movie for Hanks.

• 1:41:20Chris Ryan?

  You don't think Cruise could be Brolin?

• 1:41:23Sean Fennessey?

  He could.

• 1:41:24Chris Ryan?

  He could.

• 1:41:25Bill Simmons?

  This is more Cruise than Hanks. Scorsese or Spielberg Scorsese?

• 1:41:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:32Bill Simmons?

  Best hang, worst hang. Brolin, best hang.

• 1:41:34Sean Fennessey?

  Hey, Graver seems kinda fun.

• 1:41:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, Graver, I would definitely get beers with Graver.

• 1:41:38Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:39Bill Simmons?

  I almost had Kate for worst hang, but she's pretty fun at the bar.

• 1:41:42Chris Ryan?

  Kate would be like, let's get some Indian creeks, man. Let's go.

• 1:41:45Bill Simmons?

  She just needs to be in her element.

• 1:41:47Sean Fennessey?

  You just don't wanna get into like an argument with her about like jurisprudence, you know, like she definitely has got some hangups about who gets to do what.

• 1:41:52Chris Ryan?

  Just talk Broncos, smoke cigs, you know?

• 1:41:55Sean Fennessey?

  She thinks she's a Broncos fan?

• 1:41:56Chris Ryan?

  That area in, you know, you know.

• 1:41:59Bill Simmons?

  One of those like definitely seemed uptight, but the bar, you just saw a different side.

• 1:42:03Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:03Bill Simmons?

  Those are, those are some of my favorites back in the day. It's like, oh.

• 1:42:07Sean Fennessey?

  Favorite what?

• 1:42:08Bill Simmons?

  Really home, just, just to hang out with.

• 1:42:12Bill Simmons?

  Like those pool tables, picking nits. How did the Mexican guy miss Emily Blunt in the beginning in Arizona?

• 1:42:20Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 1:42:21Bill Simmons?

  She opens the door and he's where Craig is and just completely misses her. So you have one job, you're in a fucking cartel with a gun.

• 1:42:29Chris Ryan?

  The federal guy?

• 1:42:30Bill Simmons?

  The guy when she opens the door and he shoots at her and she kills him.

• 1:42:36Sean Fennessey?

  You'll find out soon with two shots with Craig Horlbeck coming up next.

• 1:42:39Chris Ryan?

  I thought that he might be aiming for the Delta guys. Oh, I guess he was shooting because he shoots out the window. Yeah, he's a bad shot.

• 1:42:47Bill Simmons?

  At the Wild Pony, Kate orders two beers. It's a pet peeve of mine for all movies and TV when people don't say the beer.

• 1:42:55Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:55Bill Simmons?

  McLaughlin would have been great because we love McLaughlin.

• 1:42:57Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  I'm always like when they're protecting the integrity of we can't have spot. Like you're doing all this other stuff in a movie. And it's like you have to draw the line in integrity of just have her say two beers. Nobody's ever ordered two beers.

• 1:43:10Sean Fennessey?

  What was the primal fear fight that we had though? Where it was like, was it the usual? What was the order that he does at the bar? And you guys were like, this is not correct. I was on the opposite side of you guys.

• 1:43:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you were like, I would love to be able to say the usual and I get like a nice cold martini or something. But we were like, this is horseshit.

• 1:43:24Bill Simmons?

  Names, all these things in movies, just make up a name of beer. So like, give me the Amarillo and Amarillo Light. Great, okay. Just give her the Amarillo Lights and we're ready to go.

• 1:43:35Sean Fennessey?

  So this is really more like you have an issue with the prop master. Like he should have been working a little harder.

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  It takes man of the movie.

• 1:43:39Chris Ryan?

  I share with him where it's like. Everything about the movie is so authentic, except for somebody being like, two beers.

• 1:43:44Sean Fennessey?

  What do you think she likes to drink in real life?

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  Oh, she's definitely pounding light beers.

• 1:43:50Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:51Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, with shots.

• 1:43:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:52Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:53Chris Ryan?

  Tequila.

• 1:43:53Bill Simmons?

  Couple shots.

• 1:43:54Sean Fennessey?

  Michelob Ultra Boilermaker.

• 1:43:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, 90 calorie light beers, but with shots.

• 1:44:00Bill Simmons?

  And she definitely didn't eat all day.

• 1:44:02Sean Fennessey?

  That's very attractive.

• 1:44:03Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:44:03Bill Simmons?

  Didn't, probably didn't eat the entire day.

• 1:44:05Chris Ryan?

  After she is had a near death experience with Bernthal, she's so fucking haggard.

• 1:44:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Chris Ryan?

  Dark circles under her eyes, her hair is all oily and she's smoking a cig in the bathroom. I'm still like, let's go.

• 1:44:20Sean Fennessey?

  Dana, Dana Wheeler Nicholson Award.

• 1:44:22Chris Ryan?

  I'm just like, like all the draft picks for that.

• 1:44:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. At the end of the day, she looks like Emily Blunt.

• 1:44:28Chris Ryan?

  That's what I'm saying, yeah.

• 1:44:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they can't, they can't change it. Well, that leads to another nitpick I had. Would you really have a cigarette right after you've almost been strangled? I feel like I'd wait six hours.

• 1:44:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but when you really smoke, the cigarette comes after everything. Like, when you're really about it.

• 1:44:43Bill Simmons?

  I almost had the life choked out of me. Do you guys have another, what were the cigarettes called?

• 1:44:47Chris Ryan?

  I would have a cigarette after the Heimlich maneuver if I could, you know, like, yeah.

• 1:44:51Bill Simmons?

  I don't know, I think she would have waited. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make the inappropriate comment. I had Kate trying to arrest Alejandro in the tunnel was ridiculous. It's the worst part of the movie. And then Alejandro forcing Kate to sign the document saying it was all legal. Just sign it and then tell them after he put a gun to my head and forced me to sign it. And I didn't really mean to sign it and here's what happened.

• 1:45:11Chris Ryan?

  Also, just strange that after the Victor Garber character has said they have the authority to do whatever they want, basically, that they're, they're like, this entire thing rests on Kate signing a piece of paper. Now, that whole piece of paper might incriminate Kate, which also may be why she's like, I don't want to sign this because I didn't do anything wrong.

• 1:45:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:31Chris Ryan?

  But, yeah, there's, there's like a weird end of this movie where Matt allows her to leave the tunnel area despite saying, I'm gonna expose this entire operation.

• 1:45:41Bill Simmons?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:41Chris Ryan?

  And also Alejandro is like, I can't, I have to kill you if you don't sign a piece of paper that we could easily just, like, doctor.

• 1:45:51Bill Simmons?

  She's calling him Al by that point. What do you have for nitpicks?

• 1:45:54Sean Fennessey?

  Well, what's Ted's plan?

• 1:45:57Sean Fennessey?

  Ted has been following.

• 1:45:58Chris Ryan?

  Absolutely.

• 1:46:00Sean Fennessey?

  Kate so that he can seduce her, so that he can get the information that the cartel wants about what she knows because they spotted her going into the bank, right? That's the setup there. But she, did he know that she was gonna go with Reggie, who was a pal of Kate's and who could serve as an, an intro? Is that just good luck?

• 1:46:22Bill Simmons?

  It's the kind of mistake you make when you write a movie not realizing people are gonna watch it 35 times.

• 1:46:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. It's just a little strange credulity.

• 1:46:30Bill Simmons?

  He's trying to get in with her and get closer to her. I don't think he's trying to solve everything in one night, but maybe become like a steady hookup and then he can get information.

• 1:46:38Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:46:38Chris Ryan?

  The same thing happens with what's Alejandro's plan.

• 1:46:43Chris Ryan?

  So it's like Sylvia or did they know Sylvia was gonna be at the end of the tunnel? Like, what happens if Sylvia's not there and there are no cars there? Like, how does he catch up with Manuel?

• 1:46:55Bill Simmons?

  Once they kidnapped Guillermo, they know they have like two days, right? Before they destroy the tunnel?

• 1:46:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:46:59Bill Simmons?

  So they're like, immediately it's go time.

• 1:47:02Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, but then once you get there, how do you find Manuel?

• 1:47:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like if-

• 1:47:05Sean Fennessey?

  I guess you just there, you have to assume you can get a car.

• 1:47:08Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 1:47:08Sean Fennessey?

  Right? And you're going somewhere because they're tracking Manuel.

• 1:47:11Chris Ryan?

  Right. Once he crosses into Mexico, yeah.

• 1:47:12Sean Fennessey?

  But having a, a police cruiser is like the ultimate hack for nailing Manuel.

• 1:47:18Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:47:20Bill Simmons?

  How did he know it was dinner time?

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  Could've come like right after when they were playing video games.

• 1:47:25Sean Fennessey?

  Great note.

• 1:47:27Bill Simmons?

  She's really, really fortunate.

• 1:47:29Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:29Bill Simmons?

  Shows up.

• 1:47:30Chris Ryan?

  Walks up, the kids are playing Madden.

• 1:47:33Bill Simmons?

  I'll let them finish. It's the fourth quarter.

• 1:47:35Chris Ryan?

  Are you running the spread?

• 1:47:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:41Sean Fennessey?

  Time to be Bill Parcells.

• 1:47:44Bill Simmons?

  Any other nitpicks?

• 1:47:45Chris Ryan?

  Uh...

• 1:47:46Bill Simmons?

  We covered a lot.

• 1:47:48Chris Ryan?

  I think we've hit all of them. Sometimes it feels like Graver will be candid with Kate when it's convenient for the movie, but why would he be like that otherwise?

• 1:47:56Sean Fennessey?

  Agree with that. He explains a lot of stuff he doesn't have to explain.

• 1:47:59Bill Simmons?

  Did we cover everything?

• 1:48:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:48:01Bill Simmons?

  Alright. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all Black Cast or Untouchable? Um, Prestige TV would work for this.

• 1:48:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I would take-

• 1:48:08Bill Simmons?

  I actually think it could evolve with the news and, um, kind of what, what should've happened with Homeland and they just kind of fucked it up. But Homeland, I, I, they got so, Brody was so popular that it kind of fucked up the show and then they brought him back.

• 1:48:23Sean Fennessey?

  Could've been a different kind of conflict. Yeah.

• 1:48:25Bill Simmons?

  It just should've been new, new season, new everything.

• 1:48:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, that's-

• 1:48:28Bill Simmons?

  Like 24. 24 would do that.

• 1:48:30Chris Ryan?

  Very realistic. Um, the, uh-

• 1:48:36Chris Ryan?

  The sequel, there is a sequel. I take a third, but I would also watch, albeit I think I would go to hell for watching it. Alejandro, Mexican prosecutor and Colombian cartel assassin, like the prequel to how he gets hooked up with them. And also-

• 1:48:51Bill Simmons?

  I think that's that Patrick Dempsey show. I think that's the premise.

• 1:48:54Chris Ryan?

  Was that what it's called?

• 1:48:55Bill Simmons?

  Memories of a murderer.

• 1:48:56Chris Ryan?

  Oh, and he's like a hitman?

• 1:48:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:58Chris Ryan?

  Uh, I would also watch Kate, small town sheriff after she like moves out of Arizona and he's like, go to a small town where the rule of law still exists.

• 1:49:06Sean Fennessey?

  I want the Jeffrey Donovan show.

• 1:49:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, well, that's essentially two.

• 1:49:10Bill Simmons?

  Him just getting boners?

• 1:49:11Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Kraken wise.

• 1:49:14Bill Simmons?

  Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else CR? It is CR month.

• 1:49:19Chris Ryan?

  I'm getting too seduced by Zane, but I gotta do it. Uh, Zane talking to Ted before he goes into the bar. Ted, man. Here we are. You've been low, man. You struck out in slow pitched softball in front of the entire Phoenix law enforcement community. But you're ready to rise again like a phoenix, brother. And here you are. You got Kate in there. Just make sure you don't use the rubber bands of the snoring cartel, brother. That, now that I hear it out loud in my head, sounds a little like Danny Archer in Blood Diamond.

• 1:49:54Chris Ryan?

  Like I'm saying, TIA.

• 1:49:57Sean Fennessey?

  Diplomatic community.

• 1:49:59Bill Simmons?

  Add Danny Archer to the possibility.

• 1:50:02Chris Ryan?

  I'm sorry, Zane, you're not, you're not, it's not that for you. But yeah, that was what I had. Tell me about your Jenny Ted.

• 1:50:08Sean Fennessey?

  Oh my god.

• 1:50:10Bill Simmons?

  I thought for sure we're getting Wayne. Wayne must be officially retired.

• 1:50:13Sean Fennessey?

  Sounds like it.

• 1:50:13Chris Ryan?

  I think Wayne's gotta take a minute. Wayne's gotta, we gotta put Wayne in the bullpen. I, I mean, I would use Fergie, but there's a lot of chemical way in this movie, so.

• 1:50:21Sean Fennessey?

  Does he, when they, when they, when Benicio's finger goes in his ear, does he say, goddamn?

• 1:50:29Bill Simmons?

  He kinda does. He does go Wayne for a second. Just want to ask her who gets it. I would go Del Toro personally.

• 1:50:37Chris Ryan?

  Del Toro or Deacons, yeah.

• 1:50:39Sean Fennessey?

  Johan Johansson for the score?

• 1:50:43Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if there is enough music, but it's such a distinctive.

• 1:50:48Sean Fennessey?

  It's very effective.

• 1:50:51Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions.

• 1:50:54Bill Simmons?

  Is this a better movie if Kate shoots Alejandro in the head? At the end.

• 1:50:59Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:51:00Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:51:00Chris Ryan?

  But is it a better movie if the last shot is Alejandro walking away from the apartment building and not going to Mexico one more time? Like, did you think that the soccer game was like a little too?

• 1:51:10Bill Simmons?

  I almost did nitpick for this. I didn't like the soccer game. I thought the quality of the play was low.

• 1:51:16Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 1:51:16Bill Simmons?

  These kids are in Mexico.

• 1:51:17Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 1:51:17Bill Simmons?

  They, they start out, they start from the middle, does the kick.

• 1:51:20Chris Ryan?

  Not the best pitch.

• 1:51:21Bill Simmons?

  Fucking defender misses it.

• 1:51:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:22Bill Simmons?

  Completely. It's like, you guys, it's just the, your national sport. You couldn't have even controlled one pass. You guys are 11 year olds.

• 1:51:29Speaker 04

  They're playing on dirt.

• 1:51:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, so it was probably a little bit.

• 1:51:32Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like the quality of the game. I thought I would have done a second take.

• 1:51:35Sean Fennessey?

  You going to the World Cup?

• 1:51:37Bill Simmons?

  It's very possible I will. Why?

• 1:51:40Sean Fennessey?

  Just curious.

• 1:51:40Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:51:41Sean Fennessey?

  Are you going?

• 1:51:42Chris Ryan?

  Maybe. We have it.

• 1:51:45Sean Fennessey?

  You think we won't have it?

• 1:51:46Bill Simmons?

  Should I ask the Swedes?

• 1:51:47Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Bill Simmons?

  Probably, and it's, so you think not a better movie if she shoots Alejandro?

• 1:51:54Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 1:51:55Sean Fennessey?

  I, for the record, I like the ending of, of Mexico, because I do think that the movie is ultimately like, nothing has changed, nothing has been fixed.

• 1:52:01Bill Simmons?

  I like the ending.

• 1:52:02Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a very strong point, and I, I love that.

• 1:52:04Chris Ryan?

  And these are the real people this is impacting.

• 1:52:06Sean Fennessey?

  And the Haysbert note you point, point you made about heat, where it's like, you have to have these threads in the movie that show other worlds. It can't just be like two trains on a track ready to hit each other, that there's other stuff that is affected by this. I think it's actually a very graceful thing that isn't in the other Sheridan movies that Villeneuve brings to it.

• 1:52:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:22Speaker 04

  I mean, weirdly, the only character you really care about in the movie is Silvio and his son. Like, that's the one you actually have the most connection to emotionally.

• 1:52:28Chris Ryan?

  I care about Graver.

• 1:52:30Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, we know that.

• 1:52:32Bill Simmons?

  Unanswerable questions. Is there a worse Halloween costume than dressing up like the body bags in the wall from Sicario, just showing up at a party?

• 1:52:39Chris Ryan?

  I've never thought about it.

• 1:52:40Bill Simmons?

  Who are you guys? I'm one of the body bags from Sicario. Cool. Want a beer? It's gotta be number one, right? I guess being the little girls from The Shining would be bad?

• 1:52:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that would be pretty tough.

• 1:52:53Sean Fennessey?

  That's a pretty common one. You'll see that on and about, yeah.

• 1:52:56Chris Ryan?

  Burnt to a crisp Gabriel Byrne from, from Red and Terry.

• 1:53:01Bill Simmons?

  Did Kate remarry? Did Kate ever date again? Does the Watanabe Award, what happened the next day? What happened with Kate?

• 1:53:07Sean Fennessey?

  I think maybe she-

• 1:53:08Bill Simmons?

  Let's really talk about the next five years.

• 1:53:09Sean Fennessey?

  I think maybe she and Ted got back together. I think they worked it out. Yeah, they figured it out.

• 1:53:12Bill Simmons?

  Bailed them out?

• 1:53:12Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:12Chris Ryan?

  But he's in the kill house at Corcoran. She's visiting him.

• 1:53:15Bill Simmons?

  Did Kate move to a desk job? What do her next two years look like, CR? Lot of, other than a lot of nicotine?

• 1:53:22Chris Ryan?

  That's a, I, I just, I would like to believe that she still believes in the power of law enforcement. So like, you know, maybe she's a cop somewhere.

• 1:53:30Sean Fennessey?

  No, she works in a post office. Come on.

• 1:53:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:33Bill Simmons?

  Or she's like at a desk job?

• 1:53:34Chris Ryan?

  Selling knitting on Etsy or something?

• 1:53:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Knitting. Yeah, she knits bras.

• 1:53:42Bill Simmons?

  Unanswerable question. It's the land of wolves. Are you a wolf, CR?

• 1:53:46Chris Ryan?

  I don't think you can answer that about yourself. It's like giving yourself a nickname.

• 1:53:49Bill Simmons?

  Somebody else has to do it.

• 1:53:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, you have to, you guys would have to tell me.

• 1:53:52Bill Simmons?

  Do you have any unanswerables?

• 1:53:54Sean Fennessey?

  You got them all.

• 1:53:55Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Anything? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

• 1:54:03Chris Ryan?

  I would want the rubber band from the bankroll and just like leave it on tables and see if you notice.

• 1:54:09Bill Simmons?

  I think it's the burnt all rubber band.

• 1:54:11Sean Fennessey?

  That's what I had too.

• 1:54:12Bill Simmons?

  The fake cocaine bricks in the car when Alejandro kidnaps the cop and there's all those bricks? You could talk me into that.

• 1:54:20Chris Ryan?

  It would be pretty cool if that was my backdrop for this month.

• 1:54:23Bill Simmons?

  Fake cocaine bricks?

• 1:54:24Chris Ryan?

  Keys of cocaine behind me.

• 1:54:28Bill Simmons?

  Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were best words, life lesson. You will doubt everything we do, but in the end you'll understand. I think that's gotta be the answer, right?

• 1:54:36Chris Ryan?

  It's been, it's been how I feel working for you.

• 1:54:37Bill Simmons?

  Thanks. Best double feature choice?

• 1:54:42Chris Ryan?

  Sicario two Soldado, if you want to just keep the Graver and Alejandro train rolling?

• 1:54:47Sean Fennessey?

  I chose Abel Ferrar's King of New York.

• 1:54:50Sean Fennessey?

  Another like vicious movie about the way things are.

• 1:54:54Bill Simmons?

  I have Fast Five.

• 1:54:56Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 1:54:57Bill Simmons?

  Brazil.

• 1:55:00Bill Simmons?

  Tunnel. It's, it's the happier entertaining version of Sicario.

• 1:55:04Chris Ryan?

  Oh shit.

• 1:55:05Bill Simmons?

  And I would start with Fast Five and then I would go to Sicario.

• 1:55:08Chris Ryan?

  Where would you be?

• 1:55:09Bill Simmons?

  I would go happy.

• 1:55:09Chris Ryan?

  Triple feature.

• 1:55:10Bill Simmons?

  No, just two.

• 1:55:11Chris Ryan?

  Oh no, double feature. You want to start.

• 1:55:12Bill Simmons?

  Fast Five.

• 1:55:14Chris Ryan?

  Great idea. Yeah. That's good.

• 1:55:17Sean Fennessey?

  And then Furious Six after that? Like?

• 1:55:18Bill Simmons?

  No, just those two. What do you have for double feature?

• 1:55:22Chris Ryan?

  Probably Happy Gilmore.

• 1:55:24Sean Fennessey?

  It's a really funny movie.

• 1:55:25Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie? I actually think there's an obvious choice for this.

• 1:55:31Chris Ryan?

  I'm gonna make a case for Taylor Sheridan.

• 1:55:35Chris Ryan?

  I don't think I have that written down here. I had Benicio written down, but the more that we talked about it, first of all, sends him on this incredible trajectory where he's arguably one of the most powerful people in entertainment right now.

• 1:55:48Bill Simmons?

  That was who I had and I think it's the obvious winner because he literally won the movie. It jumpstarts an 11 year and counting career that Sean now detests.

• 1:55:57Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I don't, I wouldn't say detest.

• 1:55:59Bill Simmons?

  Nah, you've kind of said.

• 1:55:59Chris Ryan?

  He just thinks it's a, it's a.

• 1:56:00Sean Fennessey?

  I think it's a, it's a waste of skill.

• 1:56:03Chris Ryan?

  Screenwriting talent.

• 1:56:04Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:04Bill Simmons?

  Should you do the Chaz Palminteri speech to him? Wasted talent. There's nothing worse than this. It's a wasted talent.

• 1:56:10Chris Ryan?

  Some of his filmmaking experiences like making without remorse and having that get chopped up and stuff. I mean, I think he's probably like, I want control over my scripts.

• 1:56:19Sean Fennessey?

  I totally understand.

• 1:56:21Bill Simmons?

  Is that my camera? Taylor Sheridan, don't stop what you're doing, man. I love your work.

• 1:56:25Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think he listens?

• 1:56:26Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:56:28Chris Ryan?

  Do you think he listens to pods?

• 1:56:30Bill Simmons?

  No. He's, you know why? Cause he's writing like 10 pages a day for seven shows.

• 1:56:34Sean Fennessey?

  I had him on the big picture in 2017 for Wind River, but he's the only guest who's ever called in by cellphone.

• 1:56:40Chris Ryan?

  Was he cool?

• 1:56:40Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:56:41Sean Fennessey?

  Um, he was pretty cool, actually. He did.

• 1:56:43Chris Ryan?

  All the video, when you watch him on the videos for Sicario for the featurettes, he's, he seems a little bit chiller than he does now.

• 1:56:50Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:51Bill Simmons?

  That was your only cellphone? I had Alton from The Real World call in once on a cellphone in year one of the BS Report in 07. And at one point he bought cigarettes.

• 1:57:01Sean Fennessey?

  I remember that.

• 1:57:01Bill Simmons?

  He's like, hold on one second. And then he's like, can I get a pack of Camels?

• 1:57:05Sean Fennessey?

  Alton, who is of course, the greatest athlete of the 21st century.

• 1:57:08Chris Ryan?

  Didn't Bueker and Steiny Mo used to call in on cell phones while they were walking around Dallas and stuff?

• 1:57:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's, that's why we had to eventually stop that combo. Yeah, it wasn't great from a cellphone standpoint.

• 1:57:17Chris Ryan?

  Three man weave, dude.

• 1:57:19Sean Fennessey?

  How do you do a three man weave with a cellphone?

• 1:57:21Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing. That was, we didn't know any better back then.

• 1:57:24Chris Ryan?

  He was Amadeus, dude. He was just conducting it.

• 1:57:26Sean Fennessey?

  I know. He was just figuring it out in real time. Masterful. Those were, those were also, me and CR would text about those pods. Be like, did you hear the three man weave today? Pretty fucking awesome.

• 1:57:35Chris Ryan?

  It would be the three man weaves, Chad Ford.

• 1:57:39Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39Chris Ryan?

  Um, oh god. Obviously Sal. Who were some of the others that I was just like, this is?

• 1:57:44Sean Fennessey?

  Jacko.

• 1:57:45Chris Ryan?

  Jacko.

• 1:57:46Sean Fennessey?

  Jacko elite guest.

• 1:57:47Bill Simmons?

  Jacko had a great run. The Yankees.

• 1:57:49Chris Ryan?

  I remember the first time I heard Lombardi talk about blue chips. I was like, this is blowing my mind. Like, I'd never considered this.

• 1:57:57Bill Simmons?

  Who'd you have for who in the movie?

• 1:57:59Sean Fennessey?

  I wrote an ECO down, but I thought that was a very compelling Taylor Sheridan case.

• 1:58:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's clearly Sheridan. Craig, your thoughts on Sicario?

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  I'm surprised no one said Denis, or not even with the just one Oscar that nobody said Denis.

• 1:58:08Chris Ryan?

  I guess, I even feel like we talked about it.

• 1:58:10Sean Fennessey?

  This is the lowest grossing of his Hollywood movies. This is not like a movie that, like, put him on the map. Like, Prisoners put him on the map, and then I think Arrival is where he elevates.

• 1:58:20Speaker 04

  But what you guys talked about with how much longer the script was, how much they cut out of it, how they kind of changed the perspective.

• 1:58:26Chris Ryan?

  It's not actually that much longer. Like, pretty much all the plot beats and a lot of the dialogue is in this screenplay. They cut lines. So like, a lot of Alejandro's lines were given to Graver, or they get cut from the movie.

• 1:58:38Speaker 04

  And the opening scene you said is initially of Alejandro killing somebody, right?

• 1:58:41Chris Ryan?

  And it doesn't, doing a voiceover about like-

• 1:58:42Speaker 04

  And they cut the dream that, I don't know, I feel like-

• 1:58:45Chris Ryan?

  There's even a part-

• 1:58:46Speaker 04

  Denis tightened the screws on this in a way that makes this borderline a perfect movie, and it takes it from a pretty good movie to a perfect movie.

• 1:58:52Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Like, a good example is like, at the end of the screenplay, Alejandro actually says the last title card about like, Sicario's where, go back to like, ancient Jerusalem, like, expelling the Romans. He says all that. And it's like, this is really awkward.

• 1:59:07Sean Fennessey?

  Soldato has more of that energy.

• 1:59:08Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 1:59:09Sean Fennessey?

  It's a little, you can kind of feel Sheridan's words more in the screenplay. It's a, it's a very good point. I think he was already on the train to becoming who he was gonna become. This movie become, you know, like I said, it's still my favorite, but- I think a lot of people would say Arrival is his best movie. I think the Dune movies are beloved now. He's had a really cool career.

• 1:59:30Chris Ryan?

  I go back and forth between this and Arrival.

• 1:59:33Bill Simmons?

  I don't think this movie is nearly as big as the Dune movies have been for him.

• 1:59:36Sean Fennessey?

  Definitely not, yeah.

• 1:59:38Bill Simmons?

  And especially with 25 and unders, like my son had never seen Sicario and I don't think any of his friends. I, I think it's in that perfect sweet spot of beloved, but not, it's also like you can discover it, which is the best thing about it.

• 1:59:51Chris Ryan?

  Have you, are you a Prisoners fan?

• 1:59:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Speaker 04

  Also, I was wrong. Thinking back, I did not see this in the theater. Cause I saw, I remember seeing The Martian, did not see this. Watched it on my laptop and I think I was 19 or 20. And I, I remember leaving it kind of underwhelmed because I think I went in thinking it was a, a bigger action movie, fast paced. And it's a little bit slower than that.

• 2:00:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:12Speaker 04

  Re, upon rewatch last night on the TV blasting the speakers, lights off, this is like the best movie ever made.

• 2:00:19Speaker 04

  It's so fucking good. Um, I mean, he can make, no one's better at aerial shots right now than.

• 2:00:24Chris Ryan?

  Those shots of Juarez as they're going in.

• 2:00:25Bill Simmons?

  That Affleck is giving up. He's like, I thought I had the helicopter corner for a while.

• 2:00:29Speaker 04

  You can watch a car on the freeway from above for like a minute.

• 2:00:32Chris Ryan?

  All those shots have, all those shots have ideas too, man.

• 2:00:36Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:00:36Chris Ryan?

  Like so many of those drone shots that people will do now are just transition shots and they'll be like, all right, here's the cityscape and it's like.

• 2:00:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's usually one lonely car on a lonely road going over a forest space, but just giving you, it's not really Chandler, Arizona, but the very beginning of the movie when you see the kind of like pueblo town almost, this like suburban kinda, it's kind of like the, the inlet in, um, in the rip. You know, where it's like, almost like an abandoned suburb that is just exists only to house drug money.

• 2:01:01Chris Ryan?

  Sicario vibes.

• 2:01:03Sean Fennessey?

  It does.

• 2:01:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:01:04Chris Ryan?

  The, uh, the shot, there's a shot on that when they're in the private jet that they've requisitioned to go to the air force base. The shot of like the shadow of the jet, like kind of rippling over the landscape is just fucking crazy, dude.

• 2:01:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, you hold your breath this entire movie. Also, we didn't do the category of what's the perfect age to see it?

• 2:01:21Bill Simmons?

  I know, I was gonna, I forgot to set you up for it.

• 2:01:24Speaker 04

  Um, the perfect age to see this movie is not 19. Like.

• 2:01:29Speaker 04

  Like you just, I, I, you couldn't, you can't grasp the, what they're trying to say. And even now, I'm, it's like, I'm now just being like, oh, this movie means so much more. And you understand the subtext so much more because nothing is very deliberate in this film. It's all kind of something you have to read into. So that also probably played a factor in why I was, as a 20 year old, I was like, pretty good.

• 2:01:48Bill Simmons?

  I forgot to set you up at the top about, it's 200 and.

• 2:01:51Speaker 04

  It's two hours flat.

• 2:01:52Bill Simmons?

  Two hours flat.

• 2:01:53Speaker 04

  I was shocked. I would have bet my life this movie was two hours and 25 minutes. It's remarkable, this type of movie is always two hours and 25 minutes now. Remarkable that it's too flat.

• 2:02:02Bill Simmons?

  So was it on the Horlback scale where you think every movie has to be 100 minutes?

• 2:02:06Speaker 04

  There's almost.

• 2:02:07Bill Simmons?

  Plus 20.

• 2:02:09Bill Simmons?

  There's not a lot to cut out of this movie.

• 2:02:11Speaker 04

  Well, the only thing you could cut out is the burnt thal stuff, which is probably saves you 10.

• 2:02:14Bill Simmons?

  No, it's essential.

• 2:02:14Speaker 04

  I like it.

• 2:02:16Chris Ryan?

  It's also like that binds her to Alejandro. It's like almost why she follows him down the tunnels. Cause she's like, I need to know what this guy is about.

• 2:02:22Bill Simmons?

  I don't think there's anything to cut.

• 2:02:23Speaker 04

  There's kind of two different categories of movie. There's like the 100 minute types of movie. And then there's the two hour kind of movie where I think most two and a half hour dramas now could be two hours. And then there's a lot of comedies and rom coms that are two hours that should be an hour 40.

• 2:02:37Bill Simmons?

  I will say this, if you were forced to cut, the studio is like, we're not releasing unless you cut five minutes. I would cut all the stuff with the, with the cop and the beginning and the end and the soccer.

• 2:02:46Chris Ryan?

  Sylvia.

• 2:02:47Bill Simmons?

  I would just, I just think that would, you need everything else for the plot.

• 2:02:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't.

• 2:02:51Bill Simmons?

  That's like a luxury that you could still have mostly the same movie, but I, I really like having it. I just think it's so grounding for the story.

• 2:02:58Chris Ryan?

  Also, it makes the scene, which I don't even, we talked about it when Benicio is sitting in the backseat of Sylvia's car. And take, and making him go to Manuel.

• 2:03:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:07Chris Ryan?

  And he's like, you know, run your lights and tell him to get out of the car.

• 2:03:11Bill Simmons?

  You're a very good police officer.

• 2:03:12Chris Ryan?

  It makes that way more tense because you're like, we've spent this whole movie with this guy.

• 2:03:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, that's it for the first round of CR month. We have five movies this month. Next week, we're doing Fargo.

• 2:03:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:22Bill Simmons?

  Week after, just announced we're doing To Live and Die in L.A. Sean's gonna be in, even though he's in like full Oscars thing. We're trying to kill Sean this month. I can do it. I just rewatched it. I'm very excited.

• 2:03:32Chris Ryan?

  We were saying outside, we could probably start To Live and Die in L.A. rewatchables like right now.

• 2:03:37Bill Simmons?

  Like just do it blind? Yeah.

• 2:03:39Speaker 04

  Do you want to announce the other project?

• 2:03:42Bill Simmons?

  No, cuz I'm not positive that's this month.

• 2:03:44Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 2:03:44Bill Simmons?

  We, we're gonna do a sixth thing, but it's either gonna be a mailbag or the mystery project. Then we have two more, which we haven't decided on yet.

• 2:03:51Chris Ryan?

  We're, we're constant negotiations.

• 2:03:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:53Chris Ryan?

  It's, we have the last one.

• 2:03:55Bill Simmons?

  L.A. Confidential is the fifth one.

• 2:03:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:03:58Bill Simmons?

  I guess we didn't announce that one.

• 2:04:00Chris Ryan?

  We just did.

• 2:04:00Sean Fennessey?

  How does it work? Is, is Chris pitching you on the movies? Does he have you?

• 2:04:03Bill Simmons?

  No, well, he, he has, he can ultimately decide.

• 2:04:06Chris Ryan?

  Oh, wow. Thank you. I don't think I've ever gotten you to say that.

• 2:04:09Bill Simmons?

  So the fourth one, well, I still have to prove it.

• 2:04:14Chris Ryan?

  I did not.

• 2:04:16Bill Simmons?

  The fourth one, so the third one, deliver it, does that count as a?

• 2:04:20Sean Fennessey?

  The boundaries haven't, haven't moved.

• 2:04:20Bill Simmons?

  Does that count as a one for us, or do people want that one?

• 2:04:23Chris Ryan?

  People wanted it. People were very pumped out.

• 2:04:25Bill Simmons?

  So we still have a one for us card for the fourth one, potentially?

• 2:04:28Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:28Bill Simmons?

  Or we could just go nuts.

• 2:04:30Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, the streets really want a couple of big titles, but I think we, we, we, we have to hold Hunt for October for October. There's nothing like doing Hunt for October in the fall.

• 2:04:39Sean Fennessey?

  For the Phillies playoff.

• 2:04:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly. So we're, we're, we're scouting a couple.

• 2:04:44Sean Fennessey?

  I'm really honored to be a part of this.

• 2:04:46Bill Simmons?

  C R month?

• 2:04:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, every, every month of your life has been C R month since like 2006.

• 2:04:52Sean Fennessey?

  And what a joy, and the gift that keeps on giving.

• 2:04:54Bill Simmons?

  Greenwald said it's been C R month for him since 1996.

• 2:04:56Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So we're getting Greenwald for the last one.

• 2:04:59Sean Fennessey?

  You know, the universal approval rating, like that's, that's, it should be his other nickname.

• 2:05:03Chris Ryan?

  It's right before the fall.

• 2:05:04Bill Simmons?

  Well, we're gonna do.

• 2:05:05Chris Ryan?

  I peek here and then everything goes downhill.

• 2:05:07Sean Fennessey?

  But I'm getting you redacted, unredacted out of Epstein. So now it's all gonna come, come to light.

• 2:05:12Chris Ryan?

  And it's just Epstein being like, this guy C R loves Heat.

• 2:05:14Sean Fennessey?

  Chris, Chris wrote that scene in Sicario where Alejandro sexually assaults him, you know?

• 2:05:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, we have Heat in the background.

• 2:05:24Bill Simmons?

  What language is that?

• 2:05:25Chris Ryan?

  It's Spanish, dude. Didn't you, didn't you take Spanish?

• 2:05:31Sean Fennessey?

  Un epico de crimen y obsesión.

• 2:05:34Bill Simmons?

  That could be a bunch of languages. I don't know.

• 2:05:36Chris Ryan?

  We're, we're.

• 2:05:36Bill Simmons?

  You can tell me that's Italian.

• 2:05:38Sean Fennessey?

  It's like Spanish to me.

• 2:05:38Chris Ryan?

  I think it's Spanish.

• 2:05:39Bill Simmons?

  I think it's probably Spanish.

• 2:05:40Sean Fennessey?

  The highest, I think, to give away.

• 2:05:42Bill Simmons?

  We're not doing Heat.

• 2:05:43Chris Ryan?

  Way to go, Guillermo.

• 2:05:44Bill Simmons?

  We're not doing Hunt of Red October.

• 2:05:46Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 2:05:47Bill Simmons?

  And we're, we're. And we're not doing Aliens.

• 2:05:48Chris Ryan?

  We're not doing Aliens.

• 2:05:49Sean Fennessey?

  Is Heat's?

• 2:05:50Bill Simmons?

  Because we're gonna do Aliens this summer.

• 2:05:51Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:05:52Bill Simmons?

  Because it's the anniversary.

• 2:05:53Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 2:05:54Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, okay. So no Hunt for October, no Aliens, no Five.

• 2:05:57Bill Simmons?

  We're crossing those off. And the fourth one is gonna be one for us-ish.

• 2:06:01Chris Ryan?

  But we don't, but, but people have asked for the revise, but I think we're gonna hold on to that.

• 2:06:07Bill Simmons?

  No, because I think we, yeah, we're gonna hold on to that one.

• 2:06:11Chris Ryan?

  In case Jamie Foxx wants to do it.

• 2:06:13Sean Fennessey?

  Is Ted Sarandos watching right now, do you think?

• 2:06:15Bill Simmons?

  Probably not.

• 2:06:17Bill Simmons?

  He probably can't believe he just got $2.8 billion to back out of a deal.

• 2:06:23Chris Ryan?

  He's like, you're telling me I get $2.8 billion and these three guys? Yes!

• 2:06:29Sean Fennessey?

  Is Heat's tagline, "Epic of Crime and Obsession"? Does it say that on the American poster?

• 2:06:34Chris Ryan?

  It's an L.A. crime saga, is the tagline.

• 2:06:36Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting.

• 2:06:37Bill Simmons?

  There you go. All right, thanks to Craig Royalback, thanks to Gahow and Eduardo as well. Thanks to Jack Wilson, everybody behind the scenes. It was very fun doing a Netflix Live.

• 2:06:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:46Bill Simmons?

  We had no real-

• 2:06:47Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to your gardener.

• 2:06:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, thanks. You almost ruined the beginning of the pod. And we'll see you next week with Fargo on C.R.M. Thanks for watching.

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  This is U.S. Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza.

• 2:07:14Speaker 09

  You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart, you are capable, you are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing, now streaming. Member FDIC, copyright 2026 U.S. Bank.

• 2:07:38Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats, and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lasages, and supplements? Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.