Caller: “My Boyfriend Won’t Propose”

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years.

• 0:08Dr. John Delony?

  Dang.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  Yep, and living together for nine. He has not proposed yet. I'm feeling really anxious and extremely rejected about it, especially since last January. He actually told me he bought the ring.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, right in the middle of America. Taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your kids, your relationships, whatever you've got going on in your life. I'd love to have you on this show. If you want to be a part of it, click the link in the show notes and fill out the form and it will send it over to Kelly and she'll get you on the show. Let's roll out to Boston and talk to Alice. Hey, Alice, what's up?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Hey, how are you?

• 1:00Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing great. How about you?

• 1:02Speaker 00

  Good, thanks. Thank you so much for taking my call.

• 1:05Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  It's a privilege. Um, so I am basically, a little backstory. I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years.

• 1:14Dr. John Delony?

  Dang. 10 years.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  I'm 60.

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  All right, so 10 years together.

• 1:19Speaker 00

  60 years old, yep. And living together for nine. Um, he has not proposed yet.

• 1:28Dr. John Delony?

  Of course not. Why would he?

• 1:31Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:32Dr. John Delony?

  Why would he? He's got the greatest situation ever.

• 1:36Speaker 00

  You're right. Um, we are very much in love. We have a great life together. Um, we have our dogs and a great place to live. Um, and it has come up. Marriage has come up, probably yearly. But, uh, I'm feeling really anxious and extremely rejected about it, especially since last January. He actually told me he bought the ring and it was in his nightstand.

• 2:12Dr. John Delony?

  Was that true?

• 2:13Speaker 00

  Uh, yes. I didn't actually look at it, but I saw the bag.

• 2:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:20Dr. John Delony?

  So what does, what does marriage mean to you? You, you just, you said you had a great life. You're getting the life that you've wanted to co-create together. But you're madly in love, you said. You've got your dogs. Like, what does marriage mean to you? What is it? What are you missing?

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Um, it definitely means 100% commitment.

• 2:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What percentage do you think you're at right now?

• 2:46Speaker 00

  For commitment?

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Um, I would say it's, it feels like 75% because of that. Because, because we've been talking about it for so long. It's almost like living in a lie. Do you know what I'm saying?

• 3:05Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I think beneath the marriage, and let me put my biases out on the table. I've done a lot of digging into the literature about this. The way you've just described this is actually bared out in the literature.

• 3:19Dr. John Delony?

  That long-term cohabitating relationships can be fine. They can be, I'll even say they can be great. But there is something the nerds call the marriage advantage. And it comes, I think, at the end of the day, from an anchor point.

• 3:34Dr. John Delony?

  Um, that, that married couples out, and I hate to use this language, this just feels gross, but they outperform cohabitating couples in everything from finance to relationship quality to sex to health outcomes because of that anchor point. That other 25% as you describe it. That was, I've never heard it put that way, but that was beautifully said. But I want to get beneath.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  I like that.

• 3:58Dr. John Delony?

  I want to get beneath the marriage question here.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:04Dr. John Delony?

  What I want you to metabolize or wrestle with is for 10 years, you've told this person that you're building a life with, "This thing really matters to me." And he has said, either through words or more importantly, through his actions, "I don't care what you think."

• 4:25Speaker 00

  That's heavy.

• 4:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Because it's easy to focus on marriage, marriage, marriage. It becomes a, a place to put extra energy when the real problem is in the foundation of this thing y'all are building together, which is, "I really want this." And the person you're building a life with says, "A, I don't, I don't want that. And B, I don't care that you want that."

• 4:54Speaker 00

  I didn't think of it that way, but you're right.

• 4:58Dr. John Delony?

  So back out of the marriage question. And sometimes I'm right on this question and sometimes I'm completely wrong. So I've got no stake in it. I just want to try to get to some deeper truth here. Um, where else do you have things in your relationship that really matter to you?

• 5:15Dr. John Delony?

  That he says, "Nah, I don't care."

• 5:19Speaker 00

  Oh, uh, there's a few things. Um, we live in a, an apartment in his daughter's house.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  And there are times when I feel like moving would be a good idea.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  And that's not really an option.

• 5:39Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, hold on. It is very, very much an option.

• 5:44Dr. John Delony?

  It's something he just says no to. "I don't care what you think."

• 5:47Speaker 00

  You're right.

• 5:48Dr. John Delony?

  "I don't care that you want to be a grown up and have our own place and our own nest and our own home. I don't care. This is what we're doing." Or, "This is what I'm doing," right?

• 6:01Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  Everything's an option. This is like the America in the 21st century. Not the America, but un-America, one of several. Like, everything's an option.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Oh, you're right.

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Um.

• 6:17Dr. John Delony?

  What else?

• 6:18Speaker 00

  So what?

• 6:22Speaker 00

  He is, um, he's an electrician. He has his own business.

• 6:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  Um, so I work on a very part-time basis, working on the books. And sometimes he's not, he doesn't follow through on paperwork type things, phone calls, um, certain things he needs to do. And it does affect me because I'm waiting to do that role. And so that, I guess I would call it chronic procrastination. So there's a lot of that.

• 7:02Dr. John Delony?

  So chronic procrastination can be a fancy way of saying unreliable.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:10Dr. John Delony?

  Which at a relationship level is a fancy way of saying, "Not trustworthy. I can't count on you."

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:18Dr. John Delony?

  Or, "You care more about not doing the thing than me looking bad because I'm the one that has to take the phone calls with angry customers."

• 7:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:30Dr. John Delony?

  So here's the, here's the spoiler alert, okay? And this is really hard to hear.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  You can't make him do anything.

• 7:42Dr. John Delony?

  The only person you can control is you.

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Agreed.

• 7:48Dr. John Delony?

  And the only thing I would ask of any of us, you especially, because you had the courage to call,

• 7:54Dr. John Delony?

  is don't choose misery on top of any decision you make. And here's what I mean by that.

• 8:03Dr. John Delony?

  If you look at the totality of your relationship, I got a guy that's, man, I love him. He loves me, but man, he's unreliable.

• 8:12Dr. John Delony?

  I love him. He loves me. He would rather live in his adult daughter's basement than build a home with me. I love this guy. He loves me.

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  But he's fine at 75%.

• 8:29Dr. John Delony?

  If that's, if you look at that world and you say, "This is, this is the bed I've made for myself and this is where I want to sleep." Then what I would ask you to do is

• 8:41Dr. John Delony?

  open your hands and let that other stuff go. Because choosing to focus on that is a choice to be miserable on top of the world you've decided to create for yourself.

• 8:52Dr. John Delony?

  Similarly, if you decide, how old are you?

• 8:55Speaker 00

  I'm 60.

• 8:56Dr. John Delony?

  I'm 60. Okay, so you're 60. If you decide, you know what? I got 40 years left.

• 9:04Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't want there to be any tread left on the tires.

• 9:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm worth more than 75% of somebody's heart and mind and spirit. I'm worth having a voice in my own home.

• 9:17Dr. John Delony?

  I'll call this last 10 years good, great, fun, but I'm worth more than this.

• 9:25Dr. John Delony?

  Then don't choose misery on top of it, looking back over your shoulder.

• 9:32Dr. John Delony?

  Say, "I'm worth more than this and I'm, I'm going to go take as much, um, action as I can."

• 9:41Speaker 00

  Is that a conversation I should be having with him?

• 9:44Dr. John Delony?

  I think he, again, all you can control is you. I always want folks to be honest in their relationship.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Definitely, yes.

• 9:56Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you're, if you find yourself getting to a point where you're ready to go

• 10:02Dr. John Delony?

  or you're starting to think, "I'm worth more than this."

• 10:07Dr. John Delony?

  Um, yeah, I think that's a fair thing to say. Here's the boundary. If we're not, if you're not all in on this deal after 10 years, "It breaks my heart, but you're allowed to do that. You're a grown man." If you want to keep living in your daughter's house until, you know, you leave this earth, you're allowed to do that. You're a grown man.

• 10:27Dr. John Delony?

  But as for me, I want more than that with my life. I'm worth more than that and I want more than that. I want somebody to give me 100% of themselves because I want to give 100% of myself to them.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  That makes sense and it doesn't sound like an ultimatum.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Which is not what I wanted to do.

• 10:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, an ultimatum is you do this or else.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:53Dr. John Delony?

  A boundary is, "If you want to be with me, here's the path I'm asking you to walk. Otherwise, here's what I'm going to do next."

• 11:07Speaker 00

  That's pretty scary.

• 11:08Dr. John Delony?

  It's very scary because he might call your bluff.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:12Dr. John Delony?

  Or more importantly, he might reveal what your guts know about the state of your relationship, which is he is doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. And he's got a pretty awesome woman who's willing to put up with it in his daughter's basement.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:30Dr. John Delony?

  And here's the

• 11:36Dr. John Delony?

  Can I throw a grenade in the middle of your lap?

• 11:40Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 11:41Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to have an honest conversation, a real truth, eye-opening, reality conversation with 70-year-old you, 10 years from now.

• 11:57Dr. John Delony?

  Because you're gonna have real health needs. You're gonna have real security needs. You're gonna need a roof over your head and lights on and heat on.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, those concerns have crossed my mind.

• 12:13Dr. John Delony?

  They shouldn't cross your mind. They should be blinking in the middle of your chest with an alarm going off.

• 12:21Dr. John Delony?

  Because let's play this out. What if, um, he has a heart attack in three years?

• 12:30Dr. John Delony?

  Where do you go? Where do you live? Not in his daughter's basement anymore.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a

• 12:39Dr. John Delony?

  What's your financial situation? You're probably, if he has a will, you're not a part of it. You're not even his wife.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Well, he doesn't even have a will.

• 12:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  Um, one of my best friends on the planet, his name is John, he said, "The only reason not to have a will is if you hate your wife and kids."

• 12:58Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 12:58Dr. John Delony?

  That's a, I didn't have one years ago. And he's like, "Oh, man."

• 13:02Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 13:02Dr. John Delony?

  That's what he told me. And I got one within the week. I was like, "Oh, my gosh, you're right." You know what I mean?

• 13:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's really important.

• 13:11Dr. John Delony?

  What a dismissive, irresponsible, irresponsible, unloving thing to do is to not have a will.

• 13:19Dr. John Delony?

  That is a middle finger in the face of those that you're gonna leave behind.

• 13:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely something that needs to happen.

• 13:29Dr. John Delony?

  But here's the thing, it's not going to. You know this, I know this. You know what I mean?

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, I mean

• 13:39Dr. John Delony?

  So I'm not saying you have to, play this out. Um, maybe you have to leave his business and go get a full-time job because you need to get some money in retirement ASAP.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  I definitely have a full-time job.

• 13:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm just doing that on the side. I work for myself, actually.

• 13:55Dr. John Delony?

  Are you, do you have money in retirement?

• 13:58Speaker 00

  Um, yes, a little bit. Not, uh, so while I was married, we were broke the entire time. So since I have left, I've been able to save money.

• 14:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  But I had a very late start.

• 14:12Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And so this is just a way to look at 70-year-old you and 80-year-old you and say, "What must I do at 60 to make sure my entire well-being is not outsourced to some government entity?"

• 14:32Dr. John Delony?

  Because I'm gonna have to

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's very good.

• 14:34Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna have to cross my fingers on that.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Very good advice. I appreciate that.

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. I know that's on top of, "What should I do about feeling rejected?" You know, I, I, I get that. But all of this, let me paint you a full picture. All of this

• 14:51Dr. John Delony?

  is why I'm such a proponent, um, such a biased proponent of

• 15:01Dr. John Delony?

  a legal and spiritually bound marriage. Because that's somebody saying, "You are now my responsibility till one or both of us dies," and vice versa.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:14Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm gonna do whatever I can to be well so that I can spend the rest of my days giving myself fully over to you," and vice versa.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, in general, the, uh, the whole lifestyle is, is, that we have is, is, uh,

• 15:37Speaker 00

  always, it's, it hasn't gone that, that forward, and it should, especially

• 15:42Dr. John Delony?

  The world you painted me is, reminds me very much of my college students.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  Why is that?

• 15:52Dr. John Delony?

  Just a guy who found a place to live.

• 15:56Dr. John Delony?

  And he's got a job that he's okay at, pretty good at sometimes when he's there. And his girlfriend moves in.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  Oh, I feel bad that I painted that picture. Um,

• 16:09Dr. John Delony?

  No, don't feel bad. He might be crushing it in his job, right? Like, he may be really an outstanding electrician, doing good, all that stuff.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:18Dr. John Delony?

  But here's the thing, you've been protecting his feelings for your 10 years.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Definitely.

• 16:24Dr. John Delony?

  At the expense of yours. You don't even like me saying the truth of what, you know, it

• 16:29Speaker 00

  I know. You're right.

• 16:31Dr. John Delony?

  You know, like, it's hard for you to hear.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so when you say, "I want this," and he's like, "Ah, bleh, bleh."

• 16:41Dr. John Delony?

  You think, "Yeah, I should probably just shut up."

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:47Dr. John Delony?

  And if you get nothing off this call, I want you to, like, at least hear me say, "You're worth not shutting up."

• 16:57Dr. John Delony?

  And at the most, I want you to have a conversation with 70-year-old you, with 80-year-old you, and listen to them plead with you to not shut up, to let your voice be heard, to, like, what you want to be put on the table and be received with open arms because this person loves you and wants to build a life with you.

• 17:20Dr. John Delony?

  You're worth that. Thank you so much for being brave, and thank you so much for the call. I'm really, really grateful. For the first time, maybe in a long time, consider protecting and honoring what's in the middle of your chest, what's in your guts, before you go play defense and make sure everybody else's feelings are okay, especially at the expense of yours. Thanks for the call. We come back. A woman asks how to find purpose and direction after leaving her decade-long career. We'll be right back.

• 17:53Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:38Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:11Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas and talk to Christine. Hey, Christine, what's up?

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Hi, how are you, Dr. John?

• 19:16Dr. John Delony?

  Doing great. How about you?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  I'm good. Thank you for asking.

• 19:20Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Okay, so I've sat here and tried to realize how I can break this down without being long-winded, so I'll just get into it. My question is, how do I move forward to my life after realizing I've spent years in a system that no longer aligns with my values? And I also realize saying that sounds like I'm leaving a high-demand religion, but I'm really talking about my career.

• 19:44Dr. John Delony?

  You're, you're, tell me more, tell me more.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  So, um, I'm 41 years old. I'm a nurse by trade. I've been in healthcare for 15 years. You know, I started as a CNA, then was a nurse. About 12 years ago, I was given an opportunity to go to the dark side, which is healthcare marketing, and I excelled in it. Um, I spent the last decade climbing the corporate ladder and found myself in a VP position. Um, I've never personally have been like this corporate mold person. I've always leaned into my own authenticity, which is my coaching and developing my teams was such a source of joy for me. Um, about six months ago, and this wasn't just six months ago, it was a buildup, but about six months ago, I made the decision to leave

• 20:32Speaker 02

  after voicing concerns of patient safety, employee burnout, and just the need for general culture to be a priority. And I was met with pushback by ownership, um, just over and over, politics over accountability. And I became the scapegoat and a target. And I just grew more to realize that my values no longer align with this corporate culture that I'm a part of. And now I don't know if I'm depressed, if I'm afraid to move forward, if I, I, I have a loss.

• 21:07Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. The way you told that story, you sounds like the last 10 years have been an extraordinary journey for you. And the way you told that story, it sounds like you're free.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 21:24Dr. John Delony?

  Like, and I think people underestimate the weight of freedom.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:32Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  I've always been such a high-achieving, ambitious person, and I, I feel lost now. Like it was all for nothing.

• 21:45Dr. John Delony?

  It was for everything. Because you know what you found?

• 21:50Dr. John Delony?

  You found yourself, finally.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:54Dr. John Delony?

  And she was hidden this whole time behind the next thing you needed to get to, and the next certificate that was gonna finally let you take a deep breath, and the next raise and paycheck and direct deposit that was gonna finally solve you.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:11Dr. John Delony?

  Now you found this amazing thing that few people ever find anymore, and that is a woman who knows what she cares about.

• 22:22Dr. John Delony?

  And it's untethered to job title and money.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Well, and that's the thing is I cared so much about my job title and how much I made and I just don't anymore.

• 22:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so forgive 28-year-old you, you know what I mean? Like in 28-year-old you was doing exactly what she was trained to do. Have some grace for her.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 22:52Dr. John Delony?

  The same is like if 16-year-old you snuck some drinks one time and made bad choices, right? How old are you now?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Forty-one.

• 23:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, 41, yeah, you told me that. You could look back on 16-year-old you at 40 and say, she was a kid.

• 23:11Dr. John Delony?

  She made dumb choices, put herself in wild, like, like, I got some, you would hug 16-year-old you.

• 23:19Dr. John Delony?

  In the same way, hug 32-year-old you, 33-year-old you, that exhausted fried woman who put off other things she wanted in her life to chase this thing that everyone said, once you get it, it will finally solve and fix and heal you.

• 23:33Dr. John Delony?

  Go hug her.

• 23:36Dr. John Delony?

  And say, hey, at 41, I want you to know we're finally free.

• 23:42Dr. John Delony?

  And let her sob on your shoulder.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  But then it's finding that, that piece of me that was always able to move forward and figure it out. I kind of feel lost in that now.

• 23:57Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, because you're trying to solve an emotional problem with your thinking, bro.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:03Dr. John Delony?

  So let me ask you one question. When anyone asks me privately behind closed doors, jillionaires ask me this question, of really famous people ask me this question, successful people ask me this question, and I'll give you the same, I'll, I'll, I'll ask you the same question I ask every one of them, okay?

• 24:21Dr. John Delony?

  Not forever, but today, tomorrow, who do you want to help?

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  I, I still go back to people, like, I still wanna, I, I still wanna, I want to help others become the better, the best versions of themselves.

• 24:42Dr. John Delony?

  Period. Just let that sit for a second.

• 24:48Dr. John Delony?

  Now, the work is,

• 24:52Dr. John Delony?

  were you training people and loving people and supporting people on the illusion track you were on?

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely not, that's the problem.

• 25:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, amazing.

• 25:07Dr. John Delony?

  So now the only question, here's the thing, if you went and worked at Arby's today, if you went and decided, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back into

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  hospital administration, and I'm gonna throw myself in the gears of this thing.

• 25:26Dr. John Delony?

  I've decided it's the hill I'm gonna die on, but I will make a change for the nurses that come after, because if I make a change for the nurses, I'm gonna make a change for the exhausted, fried, scared-to-death families that are gonna walk in our, in our hospitals.

• 25:41Dr. John Delony?

  Or if you decided to start a lawn care company today,

• 25:46Dr. John Delony?

  you are somebody who cares about other people.

• 25:52Dr. John Delony?

  Whatever, whatever, like, outfit you have to put on to go do that, whatever costume you have to wear, whatever uniform you have to wear, whatever job title you can have, who cares?

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  I know this, you know what I mean? Like, I, again, logically know this. I just don't want to be stuck in this feeling forever. Like, it's almost, it's almost left me with a feeling of what's wrong with me that I want to, I just want to help build others up.

• 26:30Dr. John Delony?

  But there's two, two things to this. Number one, you can't give what you don't have. So my first question to you would be, what are you doing to build yourself back up?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 26:44Dr. John Delony?

  That's physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally? What are the action steps you're taking on a day-to-day basis? So that you can refill your pitcher, so you can spend the rest of your life doing what you were put on this planet to do, which is to fill everybody else's water glasses?

• 27:02Speaker 02

  I think that's the real question.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  What, what, what should I be doing, John?

• 27:08Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, that goes to the same thing. Can I, I, I learned this from Michael Easter, it's one of the greatest one-word answers ever. You know what you should do? Something.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:23Dr. John Delony?

  You have boxed yourself into a paralyzed right or wrong. If I take one more step, it's gonna end up on another 10-year trajectory of fill in the blank.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, wow.

• 27:37Dr. John Delony?

  And then you try to drag 10 years' problems that are imaginary and not real yet back into your body today for them to solve it, and it can't. It's too much, and it's not even real.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  That's exactly what's happening, that's exactly what's happening.

• 27:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, so you know what we're gonna do? Something. What does that mean? Do you still have your, your nurse's license?

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Oh, of course, yeah.

• 27:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, then go get a job tomorrow.

• 28:04Dr. John Delony?

  Go plug pick lines in for six months.

• 28:09Dr. John Delony?

  Spend the extra 30 seconds smiling at a scared mom.

• 28:18Dr. John Delony?

  And ask yourself if the system is worth saving?

• 28:25Dr. John Delony?

  Or was it just that you got burned by a couple of unethical, immoral leaders? But actually, every system on the planet has problems?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:39Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying? And I just made that up, go, go to Starbucks and, and start working tomorrow.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:45Dr. John Delony?

  And look at the, the line of exhausted men and women coming in and smile at them.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  And just say, I'm glad you're here.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, you're right.

• 29:01Dr. John Delony?

  It, it's, you're not going to think your way through a feeling.

• 29:09Dr. John Delony?

  The way to disprove a feeling in your body is to take action and let it experience other feelings.

• 29:22Dr. John Delony?

  Do you get what I'm saying?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  It's so simple, but it sounds so hard at the same time.

• 29:27Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I completely understand.

• 29:30Dr. John Delony?

  A feeling is just your body trying to get your attention.

• 29:34Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you think, try to think it away, it's gonna keep trying to get your attention. But I'm gonna go do something else, do something different, I'm gonna feel different things.

• 29:46Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I do.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  I do, thank you.

• 29:54Dr. John Delony?

  Can I ask you two reality questions? What's the state of your finances right now?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Um, well, they were, they were, they were good, and it's been six months, so now they're not so good anymore.

• 30:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, what does that mean?

• 30:10Speaker 02

  It means I need to get a job tomorrow.

• 30:12Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but what does it mean on paper?

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Um, I'm struggling at this point.

• 30:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, what does that mean?

• 30:22Speaker 02

  It means I have no money at this point.

• 30:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Are you in danger of losing your house?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Are you having to pick which bill to pay and not pay each month?

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 30:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Your body would be failing you if it wasn't sounding every alarm it has right now.

• 30:44Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, here, and here's why I said that. Your body's working perfectly, it's trying to love you well.

• 30:54Dr. John Delony?

  It's not the enemy, you're not the enemy of you.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  I just feel like a failure.

• 31:02Dr. John Delony?

  I know. What do you think you failed?

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Uh, myself, I don't know, I put so much of my own identity into my job, which I know is unhealthy, but I have. It was, uh, for so long, a sense of joy and accomplishment that I didn't have in my life. Because I knew I was doing something, I, I was getting that, um,

• 31:29Speaker 02

  when people are telling you that you're doing a good job, you know, your team is happy with what you're doing. It was just a sense of joy that I wasn't getting for a long, long time.

• 31:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And do you see now in the rearview mirror how that was an outsourcing?

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 31:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Dr. John Delony?

  And the question-

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Even in the moment I knew it was, but-

• 31:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I, I, yeah, we all, we all do, and dude, I've been there, man. I call it my wall of plaques. Like, I, you know what I would do for another plaque on my wall? Anything. Anything. You know what I'd do for an extra $1,000 raise? Anything.

• 32:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right? It wasn't even about the money, it was about, I, like, one more little notch that I had some sort of value.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:15Dr. John Delony?

  But I, I, I'm not saying this just, I'm not just throwing words at you. You didn't fail, you won. You've set yourself free from a prison that's always been locked on the inside.

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  You said eventually, I'm worth more than this.

• 32:38Dr. John Delony?

  We are all collectively worth more than this, and they burned you to the ground for it.

• 32:45Dr. John Delony?

  And in the same way, the external praise was never really real.

• 32:52Dr. John Delony?

  The external criticism isn't real either.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Oh wow, yeah. I sat on that for a second, yeah.

• 33:11Dr. John Delony?

  It's all a shadow.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  It feels just as real.

• 33:13Dr. John Delony?

  It's all a shadow.

• 33:17Dr. John Delony?

  The question is, can you look yourself in the mirror and put your fist in your chest and say, "I love this woman"?

• 33:26Speaker 02

  I think I can, yeah.

• 33:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. If you can't, I've been there, and I want you to go sit down and talk to somebody. I'll give you three months of BetterHelp for free for somebody to call today, okay?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:39Dr. John Delony?

  Because I know finances are tight.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 33:43Dr. John Delony?

  But after you get your feet underneath you, I want you to go sit down with somebody in person. Unwinding identity is hard. It's hard, hard, hard. But it's not a thing you think yourself towards.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:59Dr. John Delony?

  I've told a few people this recently on the show, I'll tell you this too, tonight, or this morning, this afternoon, I want you to write a letter to a 50-year-old you.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:12Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to tell her the things that you did when you stood up and dusted yourself off at 41, so that she could have the amazing life she has.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  I'll do that.

• 34:27Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to think amazing life bigger than square footage and dollar amount.

• 34:34Dr. John Delony?

  There is a financial reality you've got to meet, right? But I want you to give that woman peace. You've never had that.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 34:43Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to give that woman laughter and warmth and friends.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  Someone to go on dates with and make out with. Ew. Right? I want you to, like, what do you have to invest in now?

• 34:58Dr. John Delony?

  Well, 50-year-old, you know how to dance? Will she know jiu-jitsu? Will she be, run a marathon by, like, what, what life are you gonna give her?

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:11Dr. John Delony?

  Because you are officially free from the burden and the shackles of performance. And you're also-

• 35:18Speaker 02

  I know, and that feels amazing.

• 35:20Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And just, just because it doesn't feel amazing doesn't mean it isn't amazing.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:25Dr. John Delony?

  Right? It can feel scary. It can feel terrifying. Freedom usually is. And that's why we cash in our freedom for convenience and we, and illusions and whatever, because it's scary. It's, it's heavy. It's a responsibility.

• 35:44Dr. John Delony?

  But I bet you could have a job within 24 hours. Is that fair?

• 35:49Speaker 02

  I, 100%, yes.

• 35:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Give it 30 days. Put 30 days on the calendar, and if you find yourself getting buried again, you find those old demons coming back, you find you can't sleep again, you're getting anxious again, put in your two-week notice and walk out the door, okay?

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 36:09Dr. John Delony?

  Nothing you do next is a forever thing.

• 36:18Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 36:19Dr. John Delony?

  I'm six and a half years into a two-year experiment, right? It just is.

• 36:30Dr. John Delony?

  I'm really, really honored that you called.

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. John.

• 36:34Dr. John Delony?

  You're a good woman.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 36:37Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm glad you, um, the hill you died on was on behalf of people working for you and with you and those patients who are scared to death bringing hurting kids into your hospital. Thank you for that.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 36:50Dr. John Delony?

  Because one day, that's me bringing my daughter in. That's me bringing my son in. And I, I want someone like you that cares enough to say, "We're gonna treat these people differently. And we're gonna treat the people, taking care of them differently." Thank you for that.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Thank you for saying that. Thank you for what you do.

• 37:05Dr. John Delony?

  No, thank you.

• 37:08Dr. John Delony?

  And tomorrow, if a burly, mean, tattooed-up Texan walks into your hospital, jab him a little bit harder and just say, "That's for you, Deloney. That's what you get." Appreciate the call, sister. We come back, a woman asks how to quit smoking when she's tried everything and spent years on a healing journey. We'll be right back.

• 37:30Dr. John Delony?

  All right, this drives me bonkers, but our culture has made being exhausted something to be proud of. People brag about how busy they are, how little sleep they get, and how exhausted they always feel. Being tired is not a flex. You know what's a flex? Getting good sleep. And good sleep starts with a great mattress. And that's why I love mattresses from Helix Sleep. Helix is not just a show sponsor for me. I love them. My kids sleep on Helix. I sleep on Helix. Even my extended family members and friends, they're all starting to sleep on Helix mattresses because I won't shut up talking about them, even in my private life, when the cameras and the microphones are off.

• 38:11Dr. John Delony?

  Imagine if the people who made your pants made just one pair of pants for everyone, regardless of size, fit. That's what companies do with mattresses. They just make one, and they ship them out to everybody. Helix doesn't do that. Helix builds mattresses just for you and how you sleep. Just get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes, and they're gonna match you with the right mattress from more than 20 different models designed for different sleep styles. And if you're a hot sleeper during these summer months, they've got cooling upgrades too. Go to helixsleep.com/Deloney for their best of web, and you'll get the biggest savings right now.

• 38:51Dr. John Delony?

  27% off site-wide. That's 27% off exclusively for my audience right now. Go to helixsleep.com/Deloney. With Helix, better sleep starts right now.

• 39:06Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and talk to Colleen. Hey, Colleen, what's up?

• 39:11Speaker 03

  Hey, Dr. John. Good morning. How are you?

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Good morning. How are you?

• 39:14Speaker 03

  I am well. Can I just say, before we go into this, I want to thank you on behalf of all ADHDers in the world that you are speaking the language of our people on a regular basis.

• 39:25Dr. John Delony?

  I am your leader, Colleen.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  I, I can follow perfectly, so.

• 39:30Dr. John Delony?

  Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  So, I'm 50 years old, and I, for the better part of 30 years, have been, well, at, at first, it was trying to quit smoking, and then somewhere in my 40s, I had this epiphany that perhaps I should put a positive spin on it, and I should be healing and seeking freedom, and et cetera, et cetera. I have done everything from deep breathing and ice baths to, I mean, I went as far as guided psychedelic journey with a heroic dose. So, um, I've done every, the alphabet soup of therapies. I've done everything. And I did have one very brief, but successful, um, smoke-free, three whole days.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  But it wasn't just that. It was, it was nothing short of miraculous, and it was euphoric, and it, it's the, the only way I can describe it, it was, I was literally touched by the hand of God and had the Lord's perfect peace over me for three solid days.

• 40:35Dr. John Delony?

  What happened on day four?

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Oddly enough, I was in church. I was silently crying in the back of the church, thanking God for this miracle that, you know, I wasn't living on cloud nine. I was still living in reality, but it was just, I knew things could happen, but I could handle them, and everything was great. And I was in just such awe of this beautiful experience. And I got home from church, and I explained to, whenever I was being screened for the call, I explained that I've always described smoking for me like a toothache that never goes away. And those three days, it was like, not only did I get an antibiotic, but the dentist took care of it, and it was beautiful. And then all of a sudden, the toothache was back.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  And from like 11:30 noon that Sunday after church until about 8 o'clock that night, I did everything from this quit program that I had learned.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  It was a CBT-based quit program, and it was very profoundly helpful. It was like reverse engineering what I had learned to program EntiMe to smoke. It was brilliant, and it was the first time I was ever really hopeful that this could be, you know, an easy experience and, and be happy about it, and I truly was. And by 8 o'clock that night, everything that I had done was just like, I'm just going to buy a pack of cigarettes. And that's what I did.

• 41:57Dr. John Delony?

  So what is, what is, um, so let me say at the outset, I am so far from an expert on this, okay?

• 42:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 42:10Dr. John Delony?

  The, the most, um, like, what I would call, like, the word I would use is wild, which is not helpful. The most ardent smokers I know who've stopped smoking swear by a few things, and I'll pass those along to you, okay? But you've gotten enough of that advice over the last 30 years that I'll just be putting it, another couple of things in the wheelbarrow, right?

• 42:38Dr. John Delony?

  The real question I want to ask you is, um-

• 42:43Dr. John Delony?

  What does smoking do for you?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  It's a vicious circle of anxiety and I can't live without it.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  I mean, that's been married around I've been on for years.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  That's a, that was like a really dramatic way of saying, what does it give you? Peace?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  No, anxiety.

• 43:06Dr. John Delony?

  Smoking doesn't give you anxiety.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Something gives, well, let me say this, I actually put this in my email to you all. Um, I heard a quote somewhere in my 40s, um, I don't know who said it, um, but it's the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. And that's when I was like, wow, that's, that's really swimming in my head, like that just resonated. But I didn't know what the connection was to, so that's what started me on this very different, you know, you know, CBT and IFS and EMDR and the alphabet soup of therapy.

• 43:43Dr. John Delony?

  That quote is from Johann Hari and, um, he wrote a phenomenal book called Lost Connections, which is, it's an extraordinary book. There's been some clinical pushback to that, like that statement. I, I like it and also it doesn't solve every problem, right? So it's one of those, it's a great new lens to look at addiction. Um, but I think underneath it is reframing addiction as not the problem. Addiction's solving a problem.

• 44:14Speaker 03

  Right, and for the life of me, I'm not sure what that is.

• 44:18Dr. John Delony?

  So let's back all the way out.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 44:24Dr. John Delony?

  Even if what Johann Hari said is 100% accurate, that addiction is a lack of connection.

• 44:34Dr. John Delony?

  You haven't sought connection. You've sought a whole bunch of different modalities.

• 44:42Dr. John Delony?

  Like you went on yet another adventure to not make close, personal friends who love you and let you see, and let you feel seen and known and celebrated.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  I have that.

• 44:52Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, if you got that, great.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Thousands, yeah. I'm very, very blessed with family, with extended family.

• 44:59Dr. John Delony?

  I've got six.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Well.

• 45:04Dr. John Delony?

  Thousands.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Six is better than none.

• 45:06Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, thousands is a lot. You can hide in a crowd of a thousand, you can't hide in a crowd of three.

• 45:13Speaker 03

  No, and it's not thousands, of course, being facetious, but, um, I, I don't have just a handful of great friends. I have multiple, multiple handfuls of great friends, good family, et cetera.

• 45:24Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let's assume then for you, smoking is not about not being connected.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 45:33Dr. John Delony?

  What if, and I'm over my skis here, um,

• 45:39Dr. John Delony?

  uh, I'll phrase it this way, when somebody calls and says, I can't, like, I yell at my kids all the time and I want to stop. And so I'm going to see a therapist to figure out where the yelling started in my life and yada, yada. I always tell them to stop, like, stop that adventure for a second.

• 45:58Dr. John Delony?

  Don't ever yell at your kids again.

• 46:01Dr. John Delony?

  Do whatever you have to do. Figuring out where the yelling comes from, that's important, we'll get there. But the yelling at your kids has to stop now, today. Walk out the front door, smash yourself with a hammer, um, go set your hair on fire. I don't care what you have to do, don't yell at your kids. And what I find almost always is people will go, oh, okay. Cause you know what, they don't yell at their boss and they don't yell at their grandmother. They have the ability to do that thing, that really hard thing. They just have to shift the context.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  Okay, well, I've done that very thing too, uh, with the yelling, but that was me for a long time and I did manage to tackle that and I never set my hair on fire, I hit myself with a hammer.

• 46:46Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, don't do either of those things, don't do either of those things.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Way easier than I expected it to be.

• 46:51Dr. John Delony?

  The most common thing I hear from successful people like yourself who want to quit smoking is Alan Carr's book.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  I've read that.

• 46:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, that's been the most successful thing I've heard and I've had some, a few friends who've done, um, the hero's dose and they don't touch alcohol or cigarettes or anything anymore.

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do I have like some kind of chemical block in my brain or something? That's like, I'm, I'm just at a loss, like, how does this work for so many people? And I had this amazing experience and then lost it. And I even went and repeated the program.

• 47:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  But of course, at that point, I was, I, I fully admit, I was very hesitant and unsure of myself at that point, like I failed this.

• 47:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  In the meantime, I did do it and I, for a long time, didn't focus on that part of it.

• 47:42Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  I was more focused on, I went back, I went back, I went back, I did it again. So I kind of pulled myself out of that loop, but.

• 47:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but you keep putting yourself back, you, you, the stories you tell yourself are so powerful.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 47:57Dr. John Delony?

  Like so powerful about just how the world is. I can tell by how you talk, like, you have such a powerful storytelling machine. Every human being is a storyteller, that's who we are. Um, I tell stories for a living, that's my job, right? But you are a powerful internal storyteller.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Yes, like A+.

• 48:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and so if, if ultimately the, the meta story you've told yourself is, I can't. And there is not a single modality on planet earth that will overcome that.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:31Dr. John Delony?

  Period.

• 48:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like I'm doing okay and then I would do revert back to that.

• 48:36Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you, you live in such binary either or, I'm the greatest ever or I'm the worst ever and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. You have no capacity for grace for yourself.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  Well, it's very small, whatever it is, because it comes in very small doses. And then I'm again, break back on the spiral.

• 48:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but you, after three blissful days and a really hard Sunday, could have had a cigarette, two cigarettes, four cigarettes at eight o'clock

• 49:09Dr. John Delony?

  and got up at 5:30 the next morning and said, you know what, for the last five days, last four days, I've only had four cigarettes. What a freaking win.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally didn't do that.

• 49:23Dr. John Delony?

  No, you smoked half a pack and you said, again, like, confirmation, I can't do this, I'm a loser, I'm always going to have a problem with this. And you went to bed and got up and woke up next morning and started smoking again. So it, it, it's so much of it depends on the framing, the stories that you're telling yourself.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:42Dr. John Delony?

  But at the end of the day, if, yes, let's say nicotine is a world-class addictive substance. Hello, pot, this is pot talking to kettle here. It's good, right? Um, and so if, if you've made the move to Zens and Alps and whatever pouches and sprays and whatever, and patches and none of that's worked, then I, I don't think it's a, a chemical thing.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  No, oh, no, it's, and when I did quit, like, the program explained three to five days, you know, all nicotine should be out of your system and explained about the withdrawals. I had absolutely no withdrawals.

• 50:26Dr. John Delony?

  You did on Sunday?

• 50:27Speaker 03

  And I did, I had a mental one on Sunday, the physicality part of it was fine.

• 50:33Dr. John Delony?

  I know, dude, you spending energy telling yourself, oh, this is a mental one, this is a body one, this is a gut one. You're just, it just goes back to like, don't yell at your kids.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:48Dr. John Delony?

  Does that make sense?

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Okay, yes, yes, that does.

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 50:52Dr. John Delony?

  And, but no, you've tried everything on the planet I would have told you to try. And at some point, I'd sit down with a physician and say, what's next? I, I wouldn't give up the search.

• 51:07Speaker 03

  No, I definitely, I definitely am not. Um, it's just a matter of, you know, like I questioned some of the modalities that I've used even like EMDR was helpful in the moment, but I didn't really feel like it, you know, it helped me with the instance we worked on the EMDR with, but never really got to the root cause of, you know, why I still have these thoughts or why I can't get over them.

• 51:32Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Um, I move, you know, move forward in a progressive fashion with this particular vice. Um, and I just firmly believe that this one vice, when I conquer this, I will conquer the world and I know I can conquer the world, conquer the world now. Um, it's just a matter of convincing my, my subconscious or my unconscious brain of that, whatever, whatever the story is that I'm repeatedly telling myself, I need to tell myself a new story.

• 51:59Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and I would spend, this goes counter to what I normally tell people, I would actually recommend spending less time in your subconscious right now.

• 52:12Dr. John Delony?

  Like, try a radical approach of your new identity being, "I don't smoke."

• 52:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:19Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm a woman who doesn't smoke."

• 52:24Dr. John Delony?

  And the new, I'm almost thinking of like James Clear's like, "I'll buy a pack of cigarettes and I'll smoke one, then I'm gonna throw it away." The same as when he's telling people to, who want to lose weight and start getting in shape, "Just for the first two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot for five minutes and go home." Because your new identity is, "I'm a guy who drives to the gym."

• 52:48Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna change this thing a little bit at a time.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:53Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm a woman who just smokes one cigarette per pack. That's who I am."

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:58Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna get really pissed off really quick, because it's, that's a lot of money you're gonna be throwing away.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Oh, I, I mean, I've spent thousands, but to quit while still smoking and spending thousands, so it's, I mean, you know, I would, I, I, I shudder to think if I totaled that up over, you know, 30 years.

• 53:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, don't do that.

• 53:16Speaker 03

  I'd be really angry.

• 53:17Dr. John Delony?

  You'd be a multimillionaire, that's right. I, I mean, at, at the end of the day, you've done,

• 53:25Dr. John Delony?

  you've gone to a lot of boxing lessons, but you haven't had a fight yet.

• 53:32Dr. John Delony?

  You've done a ton of modalities, you've learned about a lot of stuff, you've circled the wagon on so many things. And all of this has still managed to avoid

• 53:46Dr. John Delony?

  the story you tell yourself when you look in the mirror.

• 53:51Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm a woman who..."

• 53:53Dr. John Delony?

  "I'm a woman who is."

• 53:56Dr. John Delony?

  And to the day I die, one of the hills I'll die on is that people have the ability to change their story. And when you change that identity, then you start reverse engineering with actions that affirm that new identity.

• 54:11Dr. John Delony?

  And you, sometimes you gotta get radical. "I have no access to my money." "For six months, I have no access to my car keys. I can't drive to the store." "I don't have my, I have a flip phone now, so I can't even order, like, cigarettes on delivery." "I'll go to the ends of the earth."

• 54:29Dr. John Delony?

  "And it's gonna be a miserable one week, two week, four week, six weeks."

• 54:35Dr. John Delony?

  "But I wanna quit this thing, because I'm not a woman who does X, Y, or Z."

• 54:41Dr. John Delony?

  But you're putting in the work. I applaud you for keeping going. Don't give up.

• 54:46Dr. John Delony?

  Don't give up. We'll be right back.

• 54:49Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer's a time when people escape. Whether it's relaxing, going on vacation, we've all been sold this lie that if we could just get away from it all, everything will magically work itself out when we return. Here's the thing. A vacation won't fix what you won't face. If you're anxious, burned out, or struggling, these problems will be waiting for you when you get home. And this is why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that fits into your life. You can talk with a licensed therapist by phone, video, or messaging from anywhere. No commuting, no sitting in a waiting room, just a safe place to process what's actually going on in your life. And all of BetterHelp's therapists follow a strict code of conduct.

• 55:33Dr. John Delony?

  You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the app. If it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime for no extra cost. This summer, don't ignore what's coming to the surface. Sometimes the strongest thing you can do is stop running from it and start dealing with it. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com, slash, deloney.

• 55:57Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back. Kelly, let's talk more about the app. Yeah, you know me.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  Yes, for those that don't know what he's talking about when he says that, we're talking about the Together app.

• 56:08Dr. John Delony?

  I think everybody knows what I'm talking about.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  Everyone should.

• 56:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 56:11Speaker 04

  But...

• 56:12Dr. John Delony?

  I'm naughty by nature.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  Yes. We're moving right on past that. Um, this one's a little deeper, this question I have. You know, usually we talk about kind of the, "Make your spouse a cup of coffee, write a note." People that are just disconnected, or they're feeling a little more like roommates or that kind of thing. So, we, you know, our bread and butter on the show is people been cheated on, or something's happened that's blown up their marriage. So, this is a step farther than just the, "We don't talk like we used to."

• 56:45Speaker 04

  When you have somebody that they've, there's been a breach in trust, how can something like this help them?

• 56:54Dr. John Delony?

  Actually, we're working on some very specific tracks inside of this thing. I think all of us were caught off guard by the number of people who buy this app and report they're dealing with some sort of betrayal, is the word that we use inside the app. But it, in some way, their spouses betrayed their trust. And so, moving forward, I think there's a couple of things, and it feels so big, right? You find out your spouse cheated on you, you find out your spouse has a secret, whatever, or a past, or they didn't tell you about, whatever. It feels so big, and so it's hard to see what's a path through this. The first path is always asking yourself, "Do you wanna stay?" And if you do,

• 57:37Dr. John Delony?

  what most people don't realize is if I choose to stay, I have responsibilities inside of this too. And it's easy when somebody betrays you that they need to carry it all. They can't. That you're gonna get out of the boat, y'all shared, that they just blew up, and you're gonna cross your arms and watch as they row, and see how fast they row. They're gonna get better at rowing, but you're not, your relationship isn't gonna rebuild. And so, the first thing you have to ask yourself is, "Do you wanna stay in this thing?" And if you do, then

• 58:06Dr. John Delony?

  in the app, we have bite-sized chunks of seven days, and then seven days, and then 14 days of, "What must be true for me to reestablish trust, or you to reestablish trust with me?" And it's a roadmap for rebuilding trust, and we're gonna go walk through that thing together. And on a daily basis, we're gonna have that conversation. "How can I trust you today? How can I love you today?" And it's gonna be a practice. And at the end of that, and it's not always gonna feel a certain way, that's why the app is so important. It's not always gonna feel like you're, "I can trust you yet, but you did all the things I asked yesterday." "We're gonna get up and go again today. We're gonna get up and go again tomorrow." And what's gonna happen is you're gonna lay a new foundation, brick by brick, and you're gonna look up in six months, and there's gonna be an entire foundation and half of a wall built to this new marriage you're rebuilding. So,

• 58:51Dr. John Delony?

  it's hard, but it's a step-by-step process. The, the biggest challenges I see people run into is, A, they lay down a, "Here's what must be true. You cheated on me. Here's what must be true for you to reestablish trust." And your spouse says, "I'm not doing that. I'm not giving you my cellphone. I'm not gonna quit that job where that woman still works there." Like, and you gotta deal with that. App can't help you with that, right? Or, like I said, you want your spouse to have to participate in everything, and you don't wanna, you wanna put that affair in your back pocket, that pornography addiction in your back pocket, and hold it like an ace of spades. And the app walks you through exercises to tear that ace of spades up. If you say you're back in, you got work to do also.

• 59:31Dr. John Delony?

  Is that helpful?

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is. Um, and I think that applies also. I can see it applying to not just like, Brexit infidel, like infidelity type things.

• 59:40Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, financial infidelity, job loss.

• 59:43Speaker 04

  Whatever it is, something big.

• 59:44Dr. John Delony?

  Lack of respect, yeah, yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 04

  I can see that being helpful.

• 59:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 59:47Speaker 04

  And the hard part of that is, the work that you have to do, like yourself, that's the, I mean, it's a hard part on the other person's too, but yeah, it's real easy to just stand there and go, "You do the work." I may be speaking from personal experience on this one.

• 1:00:01Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe, maybe.

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  You do the work and let me know when you're done, when you're better, when you've fixed it, and then I'll participate.

• 1:00:08Dr. John Delony?

  Exactly. We both, we both got a work on together, and that's never fun. Bye.