Eckhart Tolle: “A New Earth” | Oprah’s Book Club

Oprah’s Book Club: Presented by Starbucks offers a conversation with global thought leader Eckhart Tolle about his groundbreaking work, "A New Earth," which has sold fifteen million copies worldwide. Oprah says it has had more effect on her than "any other book by a living author." Eckhart talks about overcoming cancer and reveals simple, transformative lessons on diminishing ego and becoming a more conscious human being. Oprah and Eckhart also engage readers, including the actor Chris Evans, as they share their favorite teachings and quotes from the book. Eckhart and Oprah are joined by a live audience at the Starbucks Reserve® Empire State Building® store for conversation over the new Starbucks Cortado, a small but robust coffee classic made with three Starbucks® Blonde Roast ristretto shots and velvety steamed milk. Whether you're new to Eckhart's work, or have been forever changed by his wisdom, this is the conversation for our times. BUY THE BOOK! “A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose” by Eckhart Tolle available ⁠here.⁠ https://amzn.to/4fHn5EW “The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment” by Eckhart Tolle available ⁠here⁠ https://amzn.to/4yVlV09. "Stillness Speaks" by Eckhart Tolle available ⁠here⁠ https://amzn.to/4q94Rj5. For more information you can visit Eckhart Tolle’s ⁠website⁠ https://eckharttolle.com/. SUPPORT THE SHOW Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah https://www.youtube.com/@Oprah%20 Follow Oprah Winfrey on Social: Instagram Facebook TikTok Listen to the full podcast: Spotify Apple Podcasts #oprahsbookclub

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Oprah Winfrey?

  We're gonna have a great show, you and I. Here comes the man, y'all. The man. Mr. Tolle.

• 0:21Oprah Winfrey?

  You can see it? We're in a coffee house having coffee with Eckhart, I'm telling you. Hi, everybody. I am so excited to welcome you to Oprah's Book Club presented by Starbucks. It's so good to be here at the Starbucks inside the Empire State Building, right in the center of Manhattan. So hello to all of you who are listening on the podcast or watching us on my YouTube channel. We joined forces with Starbucks to bring three of what I think are some of the best things in life: books, coffee, and conversation, all together in one place. And Starbucks paired this month's book club selection with a strong cortado. And so, enjoy yours, okay? Let's have a toast to you.

• 1:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Toast to you. Thank you. I also really appreciate the idea of meeting a friend for coffee with a book. Don't you like that idea? Especially if you get to talk about this book. After 109 book club selections, I have never chosen the same book twice, until now. Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose. As one of the great spiritual teachers of our time,

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Even one conscious breath is a mini meditation.

• 1:41Oprah Winfrey?

  I believe Eckhart's work has never been more relevant or needed as it is today.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Deep within you, there is a silent power.

• 1:50Oprah Winfrey?

  Over the years, Right now, you all are online with me. From every corner on our planet. I've always been eager to share A New Earth. This is my own braided copy of the book. This year marks the 20th anniversary of the book. It's been translated into 50 languages and sold more than 15 million copies. On this podcast, we're taking a deep dive into some of Eckhart's key concepts like recognizing the ego.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  And so to know your own ego is already an awakening.

• 2:23Oprah Winfrey?

  How to stay in the present moment.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  The beginning of present moment awareness is to be aware of your sensory perceptions.

• 2:30Oprah Winfrey?

  And we'll hear from readers.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  I was blown away when I read your book.

• 2:34Oprah Winfrey?

  About how Eckhart's teachings have transformed their lives.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  It was absolutely my aha moment, and it just felt very freeing, and it gave me a lot of hope.

• 2:43Oprah Winfrey?

  So I want to just say that 16 years ago, I read this book around 2007, and I really was changed by the book, A New Earth. I would have to say that this book has probably had more effect on my life than any other book I've read by a living author, okay? So that excludes the Bible. But by a living author, I would say this book has the most impact on my life. And I thought I was having a pretty good life. And my life experience, my experience of myself as a human being, as a being on the planet,

• 3:25Oprah Winfrey?

  my ability to separate my thoughts from myself and to realize that I am the awareness disguised as a person, my ability to understand what he says on page 41, that life will give you exactly the experience you need for the evolution of your consciousness. And how do you know that? Because that's the experience you are having right now. My ability to accept that, my ability to recognize that all stress is wanting the moment you're in to be something else, and that you are causing most of your suffering because you can't accept the present moment for what it is. I mean, it changed me and changed me and changed me and changed me.

• 4:06Oprah Winfrey?

  I thought I knew what ego was until chapters two and three of this book.

• 4:14Oprah Winfrey?

  It changed me and changed me and changed me. It uplifted my life and enhanced it in ways that I cannot even describe. And I will tell you, it's the one book that is constantly by my nightstand. So I have the Bible there, I have Mary Oliver's poems there, and I have Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth there consistently all the time. And every couple of years, I go back and I reread the entire book. And I was thinking about where we are in the world right now. And what our consciousness really needs is a little enhancement, I thought. And I thought, there's no book that's had more influence or power,

• 4:57Oprah Winfrey?

  in my opinion, to change the way you think about yourself and the way you think about the world than A New Earth. And this just happens to be, I think, the 20th edition of it. And I will also say this, over the years, I have met multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple spiritual teachers, spiritual thinkers, voices of our time. And I will have to say, no person have I met that had absolutely no ego, other than this man. This man is a walking example of walking the walk. Eckhart Tolle, welcome.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you.

• 5:38Oprah Winfrey?

  And so, I read it back in 2007, 2008. We did a 10-part series on every chapter. And at the time, we were just beginning to Skype. Can you all remember those days? We were just beginning to Skype. So the very first sessions, every time we were together, Eckhart, we'd go, "Can you believe we're seeing people? I can see you, can you see me?" And now it sounds like, you know, that was ancient times, ancient times. So let's start with a basic, A New Earth 101. For those watching and listening who've not read the book yet, how do you explain the core message of A New Earth?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Well, first, the general context is that humanity or human beings are not a finished product. They are evolving. And the greater context for it is the evolution of consciousness in human beings. And we are all part of that evolution of consciousness. And so the subtitle is Awakening to Your Life Purpose. And life purpose is twofold. One is the personal purpose, whatever you're called upon to do in this lifetime, outer activities, your job, whatever it is you do, that is your outer purpose. There is a more important, underlying, deeper purpose

• 7:05Speaker 01

  that needs to flow into whatever you do in your outer life. And that deeper purpose is to become a more conscious human being, to embody the evolution of consciousness, the flowering of consciousness. And that's to do with diminishment of the ego, to discover within yourself that which continuously prevents you from evolving.

• 7:31Oprah Winfrey?

  So it's about, we are here to evolve more consciously as conscious beings. And the purpose is to work towards diminishing that thing we call the ego. One of Eckhart's core teachings is that we are not our thoughts. I know that's a challenging concept. Eckhart says, "The compulsive thinking that plagues most people is a form of addiction, one of the most pervasive on the planet. It fuels our ego. Thinking separates us from our true self, or the transcendent, as Eckhart called it. He says the only way to reach this deeper dimension is through the practice of presence. Now, I will tell you all a really funny story.

• 8:16Oprah Winfrey?

  When I first had this conversation with Eckhart, I remember saying to you, "I really think I have my ego pretty much under control." Okay? So, the very next day, I had a doctor's appointment to get a mammogram. And normally, because I am a known person, I am brought around the back of the doctor's office, and I'm taken in the back, and I don't have to wait in a line, and I don't have to sit. And so, on this particular day, I am brought to the front, and everybody's sitting there in the waiting room. And I think, "Oh, well, this is a nice experience." Okay? So, I thought, "Well, let me just enjoy the moment, the present moment." So, I start talking to people. "Oh, what are you reading?" So, the appointment was at 11:00.

• 9:01Oprah Winfrey?

  And about 11:20, I remember getting up and calling my assistant, Libby. And I said, "Libby, what is going on here? I am at the doctor's office to get the mammogram. What is going on?" And she says, "Oh, don't worry. What they're gonna do, they're gonna take you in the back, and then they're gonna put like an apron on you, and then you're gonna have to take off your top." I said, "Libby, I know what a mammogram is! I wanna know why am I in the waiting room?" And then, right in the middle of that went, "I think that's my ego. I think it's my ego. It's my ego that felt like, why am I waiting when I've never had to wait?"

• 9:46Oprah Winfrey?

  And it was shown to me the exact next day, after I told you how it was all in control.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  So, did you discover the ego in the moment that you were speaking? Or just afterwards? Or was it right in the middle?

• 10:00Oprah Winfrey?

  In the middle of me saying, "I know what a mammogram is!"

• 10:05Oprah Winfrey?

  I thought, oh, there she is. There's ego. That's the thing that you thought you had under control.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's a good sign because to discover the ego in the moment it arises requires already a fairly high degree of presence. Many people would only discover the ego maybe hours later or the next day and then think back about, oh, that was the ego.

• 10:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Ah.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  If you notice the ego in the moment it arises, means you're really quite present.

• 10:39Oprah Winfrey?

  It diminishes, yeah.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  And to notice the ego in oneself the moment it arises is a gain in consciousness. It doesn't mean that you failed. It's not a defeat. It doesn't mean, oh, there's the ego gain. Why am I still stuck in the ego? No, because presence is there at the same time.

• 11:01Oprah Winfrey?

  Because the awareness that that is what is happening is what helps you diminish that ego.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yes, the awareness frees you from ego. First, the first thing that awareness does, it breaks the identification with the ego.

• 11:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  So people who are ego possessed, they don't know they have an ego because they are so identified. The ego, it becomes them. It is the person.

• 11:24Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  And so to notice your own ego is already an awakening.

• 11:30Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  So what is it that awakens? The awareness. So there's the awareness is consciousness and normally consciousness is always absorbed by the mind and that becomes the ego.

• 11:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Awareness is really who you are because you say in the very beginning of your book, Stillness Speaks, which if you just want to introduce someone to these principles, I think Stillness Speaks is a wonderful way to do that because you don't have to read it all at one time. They're like little paragraphs that bring you in to the space of stillness and you say on the very first page that it is the awareness of these words on the page and that awareness bringing them into thoughts, you are. That awareness disguised as a person.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:19Oprah Winfrey?

  That is who you really are.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 12:22Oprah Winfrey?

  And if you are not operating from that space, which most of us can't do that all the time, you do, I've seen you live your life this way. But there are many times where I have to bring myself back to that. And I will say that before reading A New Earth, I thought ego meant people who were arrogant or people who were, you know, always trying to boss other people around or admit that you were somebody who thought you were better than other people. I didn't realize that every one of us has an ego and it's your role in life to keep that thing in check and to separate and understand your true self

• 13:05Oprah Winfrey?

  from the ego that is consistently trying to rule your life.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yes, but also you don't need to wait for the challenge to come into your life. But also discover that awareness at any moment, even at this moment as you're sitting here, there is your experience of this moment, sensory experience, visual, auditory, that's part of the present moment. And if you want to go deeper into the present moment, that's already a wonderful thing to become aware of your surroundings rather than being totally absorbed into the stream of mostly useless thinking.

• 13:44Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  So you become more acutely aware of your surroundings and often you find there's an aliveness around there, no matter where you are in this room. So you, I call it sometimes the beginning of present moment awareness is to be aware of your sensory perceptions. Oh, and for some people, that's like waking up out of some kind of dream because they were always immersed in thinking of past and future, only peripherally aware of the present moment.

• 14:14Oprah Winfrey?

  And also wanting to be, I remember reading this, I think it was either in A New Earth or Power of Now, that stress is wanting the present moment. To be something other than what it is.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:27Oprah Winfrey?

  And that, you all relate to that, right? And that you're stuck in traffic and you're like stressing about getting to the da, da, da. If you just relax, first of all, if you can't move the traffic, then what are you stressing about? And if you just relax into it and accept, get to acceptance of this present moment, it makes everything flow more easily.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:50Oprah Winfrey?

  And I have found that that principle of being able to be in the present moment, which has now become my greatest gift to myself, is the best offering you can give to yourself and to, and to anybody else. Because it means you accept this moment for what it is, and even if the moment isn't what you want it to be, you can't begin to change it until you get to acceptance.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yes, that's a basis for, also a basis for intelligent action or wise action. I think the key word is wise, where there's wisdom and there's intelligence.

• 15:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  An intelligent person can easily have a huge ego. So you cannot equate the ego and intelligence often come together easily. Wisdom is something different. Wisdom arises out of the awareness.

• 15:39Oprah Winfrey?

  Out of the awareness.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Moment. So to have, to make wise decisions, the basis for wise decision is first an acceptance of what is right now, rather than a reaction against what is, an emotional reaction against it. That prevents you from arriving at a wise decision of what to do. But if you can accept this moment as it is, and then one could say a higher intelligence begins to operate, and that is wisdom, that higher intelligence is wisdom. It can then operate.

• 16:15Oprah Winfrey?

  The moment and then say, now what do I need to do?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 16:18Oprah Winfrey?

  Then I've accepted it. You get it? You get the difference? Instead of resisting the moment.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:23Oprah Winfrey?

  And I find a lot of people are in resistance of whatever the moment is right now. In big ways and little ways in their life.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 16:31Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  I also notice or sometimes observe people who run a business. And of course, if you run a business, continuously obstacles arise, it's normal.

• 16:40Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Some kind of obstacle arises. And people who are egoically possessed, they become angry and reactive and they fight their obstacles. They immediately have an angry reaction when an obstacle arises. But there are some people, the most successful people, they immediately, they look at the obstacle instead of reacting against it. They immediately see what it is that can be done to either circumvent the obstacle or transform it into something positive.

• 17:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Right.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  That you did not direct attention to the situation. And I call it responding rather than reacting.

• 17:12Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes, yeah. For me, that is the obstacle shows itself and I immediately say to the obstacle, what are you here to show me? What are you here to teach me?

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:21Oprah Winfrey?

  And accept that you're here to show me something and then try to figure out what it is you need to do.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:28Oprah Winfrey?

  I know Annabelle in our audience is a first timer. Annabelle, tell us about your experience.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Hi. I felt like reading this book now was at the right season of my life. And knowing that I was going to read it in community, I wanted to be very present. So I highlighted and took notes in a way that I've never done before. I don't like writing in my books. I want them to be pristine. I kept a list of all my aha moments. But I loved writing my notes and my questions because I feel like it's going to be a gift to my kids. When they read it, it'll be almost like a conversation and it'll shed light on what I took away from the book. So, thank you.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Right, very good.

• 18:08Oprah Winfrey?

  Terrific. Director and actor Chris Evans is an avid reader of Eckhart Tolle. And we asked if he wanted to join this book club conversation. And even though he's filming a movie on the other side of the world, Chris is zooming from Athens. Whoa, look at you. Hey, hi, Chris.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Hello, hello, it's an honor to be here.

• 18:29Oprah Winfrey?

  Thanks for listening. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle. Welcome back to you. I'm talking with a great spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle. I am so glad that you You are with us. Thank you for joining us. I have to tell you, I thought I was the biggest Eckhart person on the planet. But you have taken it to the next level, I hear. Tell us about your tattoo. I don't have an Eckhart tattoo.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Yes, I do have an Eckhart tattoo. It's actually from Stillness Speaks. And of the, you know, the many lines in his books that have resonated, this one just felt like a real north star. It was a line that said, when you lose touch with inner stillness, you lose touch with yourself. When you lose touch with yourself, you lose yourself in the world. And, you know, I put enormous emphasis on the practice of stillness, which is basically the practice of being present. But, but you can't be present unless you're accepting of the moment, accepting what is, surrendering to it.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  You know, I think, I think, well, as I'm sure you all know, most suffering comes from resisting, in some capacity, what is. You know, you're either, you either resist and struggle, or you surrender and accept. And one of those things will bring you closer to who you are, and one of those things, you know, you're on the risk of losing yourself completely.

• 19:59Oprah Winfrey?

  Wow. So why do you think this particular quote resonated so profoundly with you, Chris?

• 20:05Speaker 04

  I think to some degree, the industry I'm in, you hear stories of people losing themselves. But, but I think through the practice of stillness, all those other downstream lessons and practices occur. The act of recognizing that you're not the voice in your head, you know, you are just the awareness of it. That, that voice, that compulsive stream of labeling and comparing, that's not who you are. That voice wants to pull you out of the moment. That voice wants to, you know, analyze the past and worry about the future. If you follow that voice too long, you identify with it and your suffering will just spiral.

• 20:45Speaker 04

  So that, that initial quote that I have on me forever, just felt like a real foundational building block to this work.

• 20:52Oprah Winfrey?

  And where is it on you?

• 20:55Speaker 04

  Right on my chest, right there.

• 20:57Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, okay, I love that. Okay, I love that. And did you have a question for Eckhart?

• 21:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, I do. I had, well, it was kind of a two, it was kind of a four-parter, but I'm gonna spare ya. Um, I, I guess my, my question is, you know, you've, you've been doing this for so long. Do you still have access to your former suffering? Can you recognize it? And, and do you, do you still feel that suffering the way you did then? Or do you look at it through different eye, through a different lens? Does it, does it still resonate the same way?

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I, I don't feel the suffering anymore at all. It's, it's like evaporated. I remember it. I remember, for example, that in my childhood, I was mostly unhappy because of an unstable family background. I didn't have a happy childhood. I remember that. But on a feeling level, I don't revive it. It's not there anymore. It exhausted itself. It evaporated. Or it got burned up by the presence. I don't know exactly how to put it. But, um, the unhappiness has not survived in me. Except as a mental memory, but not, not on an emotional level.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  So it's, it's gone, which is good.

• 22:15Oprah Winfrey?

  Isn't that a profound thing to be able to say? The unhappiness has not survived in me.

• 22:23Oprah Winfrey?

  The seeds of Eckhart's evolution emerged from a difficult childhood. Born in Germany in 1948, Eckhart's parents separated when he was a child. He eventually became a distinguished research scholar at Cambridge. But his burgeoning success failed to soothe the anxiety and depression that dogged him. At age 29, pushed to the brink of despair, Eckhart contemplated suicide. It's in this moment of pain, a new awareness was born. Eckhart says he experienced a spiritual transformation so profound, his suffering disappeared.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Unhappiness for many people becomes an intrinsic part of their sense of identity.

• 23:05Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  And so that also explains why many people have a resistance, as every therapist knows, many people have a resistance towards letting go of their unhappiness. So the therapist tries to...

• 23:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Because that has become their identity. That's their story.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  They think they lose themselves if they let go of their unhappiness.

• 23:26Oprah Winfrey?

  They're not complaining about being unhappy.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:28Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:29Oprah Winfrey?

  I know, Chris. I was saying to the audience before, and I don't know if you heard me, Eckhart is actually the only person of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people I've interviewed who has no ego, who just, I mean, who is, who not only writes about it, but actually lives it and walks the walk. And so I'm not surprised that your unhappiness has not survived in you. Yeah. Yeah, pretty incredible.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 23:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Well, thank you so much for joining us on the other side of the world. Thanks for taking the time to do with us. Thank you so much. We love that.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 24:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Thank you, Chris Evans. Thank you.

• 24:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Michelle, where are you? You have a question. Go ahead.

• 24:13Speaker 05

  Just to share that I read your book back in, I guess, 2007, and it sparked that awareness in me. But it wasn't until these past couple of years of great trials and tribulations that the discipline, the motivation to become more present, to survive very challenging things, to get relief from great pain and suffering. So it's been an awakening in me. I still get lost in the illusion of my mind,

• 24:48Speaker 05

  but with great gratitude. It happens for shorter and shorter periods of time. And the gift has been a true reclaiming of my spirit, that which is unshakable.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  Thank you. So, thank you. I have a comment on that. When life gets challenging, a human being can go two ways. And very often, when life gets difficult, some loss, obstacles, many ways challenge can present itself. You can either become more identified with the ego and you become more unhappy. You become a very unhappy human, reactive, angry, resentful, despondent. Many, many, many negative states can arise when you're being challenged. That is one way you can go. Or the other way you can go. And that usually happens if there is already

• 25:48Speaker 01

  a certain amount of presence in you. If already practiced or you've had glimpses of presence or even more than glimpses of presence. When then a challenge comes, it can easily happen that the challenge, one could almost say forces you into becoming more present. It then deepens your presence. So, an example from even from my life, there's always a presence in my life. There's always a presence. Sometimes it's in the back. When I talk now, there's a presence in the background. I can sense the stillness behind the words. And one could say the words come out of the stillness. And that's even in the... When I go about my daily business, there's always two ordinary things.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  There is that sense of peace in the background.

• 26:34Oprah Winfrey?

  You are aware of the awareness.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  I'm aware of the awareness. And then, two and a half years ago, I went to the doctor. Another doctor's story. You had one, now I have one. I had certain symptoms, intestinal symptoms. Finally, I had to have a colonoscopy. After the colonoscopy, the doctor said, "You have cancer." "Oh." And when you hear that, usually, I mean, it could mean, yes, you could have a few more years. It could also mean you only have six months or 12 months. When you hear that, that's... So, I was a little shocked. The person was shocked.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  And immediately, I noticed an enormous intensification of presence.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  As if somebody had turned up the dimmer switch. And the, um, on a practical level, uh, ten days after the diagnosis, I had an operation. But in those ten days, uh, I spent hours and hours in intense presence, usually presence in the background. And this okay, presence came into the foreground. So I would sit in my room, just no thought in my head at all, just an enormous amount of awareness, just filled with awareness. I could feel the cells of the body filling with awareness. And I believe that was a kind of self-healing also. And I had the operation and they took section out of my colon. And then after the operation,

• 28:16Speaker 01

  another scan and said, fine, it hasn't spread anywhere. And I continued with the wonderful presence practice because presence is also extremely healing. So I gave that as an example for when you're really challenged and you're already familiar what presence is, then you will find that you become, through the challenge, you become more present. Uh, so it, it, it deepens you at any challenge, then deepens you to, rather than a challenge making you more unconscious.

• 28:52Oprah Winfrey?

  I think this is really hard. What you're saying is we're, you are really ET. Your initials are ET and you are like ET, sitting here in the chair. Cause I don't know nobody else who could do that. You know, you, you, you, you hear that, you get the cancer diagnosis and you go, oh, oh, I think my presence is going to come forward. You know, that's really, really challenging for most of us in the world. Yes, yeah. And that's just because you stay in that space. It's always there. You are always aware that you are aware.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 29:33Oprah Winfrey?

  And you are always aware, even when you're speaking to us right now and having this conversation. That what you're saying, that your thoughts are not you.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Not losing oneself in this thought stream, even when one speaks. You can often see, when you observe people having a conversation or discussion, they easily, they lose themselves in their thought stream.

• 29:55Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Uh, when emotion comes in, the moment you identify with the thought very quickly, an emotion will come in also. And, and then you start arguing. When you have conversations with your family, do you lose yourself in your mental positions? And then, then the other mental position, it comes to you, an enemy. So that's, it's very important to practice presence. When you meet your family members and they may have different opinions than you, different mental positions. Can you allow them their mental position? And don't equate their mental position with who, who or what they truly are. There's a being underneath their mental position. They are not their mental position, that's just the ego.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  So then you can, sometimes you can be compassionate towards their mental position and allow them to have theirs. You don't need to put them right and say, no, you're wrong. The moment you get into right and wrong argument, your ego is back. The ego loves proving other people wrong. Uh, and so of course you need to be right. Being right is one of the great things that the ego strives for.

• 31:00Oprah Winfrey?

  That's right. And so I think in one of the books you talk about, uh, do you want to be right? Or do you want peace?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, that was another huge lesson for me. Do you want to be right? Or do you want to have peace? And I didn't realize in all those years when I'm like, well, I know I'm right. I know I'm right. I am right. I even had a T-shirt that says, I know I'm right. Uh, that, that, that is, that's an egoic move. You know, I thought it's just like, I know I'm right, so.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Even if, I mean, sometimes you do know that you're right because there are certain facts, some facts you cannot.

• 31:37Oprah Winfrey?

  You know you're right.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  And some people may deny certain facts. Uh, and you know very well that you are right and they are not. And yet, you can state your belief or your position. You can say, well, uh, let's say, how long does it take for the light from the moon to reach the earth? And this person says, oh, it takes 10 minutes. And you say, no, I know it takes, and. One and a half seconds. Okay, you happen to be right, but then allow that person to have their opinion instead of beginning to argue.

• 32:09Speaker 06

  So your need to prove that you're right is your ego.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  That's the ego.

• 32:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, needing to you.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:14Speaker 06

  And how are the ways does the ego show up? Because we wanted to establish that from the beginning. Like, the difference between you and your ego is? I'm so glad you all are joining me on this podcast. We will be back in a moment with more of Eckhart Tolle. We're back with Eckhart Tolle, talking about his life-changing seminal book, A New Earth.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Yes, the question is, how do you recognize the ego in you when it arises? It's usually, it's not a pleasant place to be. The ego is usually recognized as ultimately dysfunctional in yourself. So any negative emotion that arises tends to be part of the ego. It starts with irritation. It's a relatively minor negative emotion, can easily become amplified and evolve into something bigger. But let's start with simple irritation. If you're able to observe an irritation in yourself, you can observe how does it arise?

• 33:18Speaker 01

  And you may find, and this investigation, how does it arise, already requires some awareness.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  And so, and then you might notice that the irritation arises because there's a thought in your head that says something about whatever it is that you're irritated about. You were sitting in the waiting room in the doctor's office. So most probably, your mind was saying, beginning to speak to you, saying, this is awful. Why are they totally ignoring me? Don't they know who I am?

• 33:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  And then you, if awareness comes in at that moment, you can observe that what your mind is saying. Creates the irritation.

• 33:59Speaker 06

  What your mind is saying is creating the irritation.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Not the situation.

• 34:02Speaker 06

  Not the situation.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Right, and if you can discover that, that's an enormous discovery. And I sometimes, when I went, you should ask yourself, how would I experience this situation if I did not add any thought to it? If I just accepted it for what it is, the bare is-ness of this? And then you're sitting in the waiting room, to go back to the example.

• 34:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  And you're just.

• 34:24Speaker 06

  Enjoying the people.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Reading, observing.

• 34:27Speaker 06

  What are you reading? Okay, good.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So the discovery that.

• 34:32Speaker 06

  Same thing with sitting in traffic. People get so crazy sitting in traffic.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Yes, how would I experience this moment if I didn't add any thought to it? They're just present. You're present with what is. And that's also, that is how the ego shrinks and shrinks and shrinks as you practice that.

• 34:51Speaker 06

  Eckhart says, as we grow spiritually, the ego becomes less reactive. When we encounter obstacles or difficult people, we face them consciously. The ego believes fighting back is power. But Eckhart says, the opposite is actually true. Authentic power comes when we surrender. And as he writes, love the is-ness of the present moment.

• 35:16Speaker 06

  Okay, Denise S., where are you? I heard you gave this to your adult children for Christmas.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, three are going under the tree.

• 35:25Speaker 06

  You had an awakening about the ego also?

• 35:27Speaker 02

  I believe so, yes. I was blown away when I read your book because I had been on a search for years, five years digging, and I felt defeated. And so I read your book, and on page 193, it says, knowing about yourself is not who you are. And at that moment, I thought, I lived in my identity my whole life.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Every, you know, coming from divorced parents, narcissistic influences and mother. And the minute I read that chapter, I slept like a baby. And I haven't thought about that since. Would you say that's an awakening?

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, definitely.

• 36:16Speaker 06

  An awakening.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yay!

• 36:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Pretty good.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you for your work.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  That's a wonderful awakening.

• 36:25Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, that's a big one. That's big. That's a big aha. That opens the door to many other ahahs. It's fantastic.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yes, one of the most important teachings from ancient Greece is the dictum, "Know thyself," from ancient Greece. That was inscribed in the temple of Apollodelfi, the famous place carved into the walls of the temple. Know thyself.

• 36:49Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  So, and it doesn't mean, at the deepest level, it's not knowing about yourself, the stories of your life, the story of your life. There's a place for that, too. If you go to a psychoanalyst, psychoanalysts will bring up all kinds of hidden memories and so on. That might have limited usefulness, but eventually you have to go beyond that and go to deeper. Yourself is the awareness. Your true self is not whatever arises in the awareness. Your true self is the awareness itself. And the recognition of that in yourself is also stillness. The recognition of the awareness in yourself is also stillness.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  And whenever you accept this moment as it is, that portal opens up. Because that acceptance of what it is brings you to the state of inner peace. And that's how it works. So, the practice then should be this continuous endeavoring to work with the present moment. Sometimes they say yes to the present moment. Say yes to your experience of this moment, whatever is you experiencing this moment. Accept it because it already is. If action is called for, that's fine. Then the acceptance becomes the basis for action. So, that is, to find yourself, you need to let go of that continuous resistance that

• 38:18Speaker 01

  is inseparable from the ego. That continues. When you let go of resistance, the ego begins to shrink. The ego needs fighting. The ego needs enemies. Enemies in the, not necessarily, but also in the form of other people. Enemies in the form of other groups of people, political groups or whatever it may be. But it also needs enemies in the form of even situations in which you can find yourself and you don't like the situation. So, you make the situation into an enemy. Or something that you have to do. You're doing it, but you don't really want to be doing it. You're doing it reluctantly. So you make the doing into also into a kind of enemy.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  So whenever you're doing something also to give your fullest attention and not doing with some hidden resentment, that's also very dysfunctional state.

• 39:09Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  And that also strengthens the ego. It's all, these are all aspects of ego.

• 39:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  So it requires a lot of inner vigilance that all the, and your, your, your main purpose in life is to, to have that inner vigilance.

• 39:22Oprah Winfrey?

  Is to have inner peace.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:23Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, and it's, it's the thing that I ask myself all the time before making any decisions is, is this my ego? Or am I doing this from the state of real awareness? What is the reason? What is the real intention behind it? Because if it is an ego-led decision, it's going to get me in trouble. Or I'm going to end up being resentful, or I'm going to end up being upset with myself or someone else. And I think being upset with yourself is actually worse than being upset with other people. So I'm constantly asking that question of myself for almost everything that I do. Is that, is this an ego move? Or is this coming from my pure self?

• 40:02Speaker 01

  That's a wonderful question.

• 40:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  But at other times, the, the ego can also arise so suddenly and spontaneously that you don't have time to ask yourself, is this because, suddenly it's there.

• 40:14Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  And then you can, you can recognize in that moment or just after that moment, ah, there it is.

• 40:21Oprah Winfrey?

  There it is. Yeah. Grace is twenty-six years old and here with her mother. And I heard you wrote a note in your book. What is it?

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Yes, so my aha moment came fairly early into reading the book. And it is when you explain that we are not our thoughts. We are that space before the thoughts. And that really floored me so much that I, I needed to take a pause. And I just kind of sat with it for a second.

• 40:51Speaker 05

  And then I really wanted to visualize it. So I wrote in my book, "You", and I underlined it and I left a space in between. And then I put "thought" and underlined it. And that might sound simple, but I really just needed to actually see that physical space between the two things. For me, I've spent a lot of my life struggling with anxiety and depression. I've been through a lot of therapy. And reading that gave me pause because I had just accepted that over-intellectualizing, over-analyzing my thoughts, that's just been my normal for quite, for most of my life. And this made me realize that that might not actually have to be the rest of my life.

• 41:36Speaker 05

  And it felt-

• 41:37Oprah Winfrey?

  Oh, I love that so much. That's good.

• 41:43Oprah Winfrey?

  That's a big aha!

• 41:45Speaker 05

  It was absolutely my aha moment and it just felt very freeing and it gave me a lot of hope. And I want to thank you for that. And my question is, what does that space, I guess, mean to you? That space before the thoughts? And also, how do we protect it when we're so socialized to constantly attach to our thoughts or to solely identify with our thoughts? How do you protect that space before the thoughts? How do we protect our "I"?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yes, wonderful question and a wonderful insight you had. It's just amazing.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  Really good.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  So yes, protecting it because this world will always challenge you with continuous, continuous noise, continuous mental clutter. Especially since we have invented all these devices that can amplify the mental clutter that was already there. Before I go deeply into your question, a little thing. You know, people always send text messages and then you have to look. And so, what message comes in and what's going on? I sometimes send, I haven't done it in a while, but I'll do it again soon. I sometimes send people a space message. I send them its brackets.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  An empty space and another bracket. And so they get a message of one bracket. Another bracket, no words. And people, they know that if they get that from me, they know, "Ah, it's a space, inner space."

• 43:20Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, ET, go ahead.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  I'll send you one soon.

• 43:26Oprah Winfrey?

  Okay, good.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  But you're fine, you don't need it.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  So that space is extremely important. So how do you protect it? You protect it by, as much as possible, being aware of that space. To be aware of that space, a little help, something you can do is, don't underestimate the importance of breathing, conscious breathing, not necessarily as a structured practice, but simply, no matter where you find yourself,

• 44:01Speaker 01

  there isn't anything in particular to do. Maybe you're waiting for something, or whatever. Be aware of your breathing. Take attention. Observe the breath as it flows in and out of the body. The moment you start observing the breath, the mental clutter stops, and there's a spaciousness there. It creates spaciousness. It takes attention away from the stream of thinking, because you cannot both think and be aware of your breath. That's difficult. So even now, you can verify that in your own experience. Be aware of the breath as you're breathing now.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  And while you're aware of the breath going in and out, in that moment, you're not thinking. There's an inner spaciousness that arises. You can use, because the breath is always there, but we are not conscious of it mostly. And then the breath also puts you in touch with the inner, what I call the inner body feeling.

• 45:00Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  To feel the energy in your body. Especially if you feel into the abdomen, you breathe into the belly region, and then you feel that there's an energy here, which the Japanese in Zen called "haro", which is the energy that is here.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  And you feel an energy that lives in you, that's the animating presence, the intelligence that inhabits the body. And then if you feel it here, you can also feel it spread out into the other parts, into your legs and arms. And then you begin to be aware of the animating presence in your body. And that is spacious. It takes you out of the mental clutter.

• 45:46Oprah Winfrey?

  One of Eckhart's renowned practices is what he calls "inner body awareness meditation." He says, "When we focus on our breath and the aliveness in every cell, we free ourselves from the grip of the ego. Our compulsive thinking recedes, and with it go our fears, resentments, and negativity." Over time, Eckhart says, "Breathing and inner body awareness lead directly to alert stillness and inner peace."

• 46:17Speaker 01

  So breathing breath awareness and leading to inner body awareness. And then you can be somewhere, you're in traffic for a moment before you were irritated, and suddenly you remember spaciousness. Breathing, inner body awareness.

• 46:35Oprah Winfrey?

  I love that process. I also, anytime you're having a conversation or having a thought, and you are aware of the thought, like you can hear yourself speaking and you are aware that you're having that thought, remembering that you are the awareness. You are not the thought. You are the awareness disguised as a person. You are not the thought. And the thoughts that you're thinking are very separate, are separate from your awareness of the thoughts, whereas the big Y-O-U resides.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:10Oprah Winfrey?

  The big I-M. That's where the real I-M resides.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:14Oprah Winfrey?

  John, are you following? You know what we're talking about? I know y'all do over here. Y'all are like,

• 47:19Oprah Winfrey?

  "Yes, yes, yes." Eckhart says,

• 47:22Speaker 06

  Most people carry within them an accumulation of prior emotional pain, what he calls the pain body. It can be unresolved stress, negativity, or fear that impacts a sense of well-being and is a source of suffering for many. Eckhart explains, "Once we recognize the pain body for what it is, we are held hostage no more. Awareness is the first step toward freedom. Our discomfort becomes so great, we take action to alleviate it." Eckhart explains, "The pain body may seem like a huge obstacle. However, it also can be a powerful catalyst to awaken." Thanks for listening.

• 48:04Speaker 06

  We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle. Welcome back to more of my conversation with spiritual thought leader Eckhart Tolle. Let's get to somebody on this side. The difference between your thoughts and the awareness of the thoughts. Who wants to speak to that on this side? Hi. You know, I was thinking just when you said that about the parent-to-child relationship, the pain body. Right before I was born, my parents lost a child. Yeah. And to say that defined who I was for decades, you know, is putting it lightly. And when I, you know, let that thought go that I didn't replace someone,

• 48:47Speaker 06

  I am not here just to fill a void, it really started to help me learn, oh, I'm a person. I'm an individual. I exist for a reason. And, you know, the pain that my parents went through was so passed down to me. Yeah. I was in my mom when she was suffering. And I think, you know, I just think about the power of that thought, that I replaced someone and I wasn't meant to exist. When I, you know, I read the book in college in 2005 or '06 because I was so confused. I was so lost.

• 49:31Speaker 06

  I was so sad. And I think back to those times and I'm like, I can't even recognize that person. Until my early 30s, where I finally, it all clicked. Like you said, it stays by my bed.

• 49:48Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 06

  And I read it all the time. Because it makes me feel less alone. This room makes me feel less alone to know that I matter and I'm here for a reason. And it's not just this thought in my head.

• 50:03Oprah Winfrey?

  Right. I hear exactly what you're saying. But that would color your whole life. Because it's the way your parents would treat you. Talking about the loss that they had. That would color the way you were raised and the way you're born and the way you saw yourself. And then to reach a point, first of all, I want to cry because we celebrate the fact that you reached the point that you realize that your being here is because you matter and not because you were here to replace somebody else.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Well, another comment on this.

• 50:32Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  Yes, it's, well, one can easily inherit a painful sense of identity. Every human is born into a particular situation, the environment, parental environment, cultural environment. And humans can easily be born into an environment that gives them a painful sense of identity. It can be individual identity, as in your case. It can also be a painful collective identity. If you're born into a group of people that...

• 51:06Oprah Winfrey?

  Were enslaved.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Yes, for example. And then you're born with a painful sense of identity. And again, it's important. The ego does not want to free itself from that because that is its identity.

• 51:22Oprah Winfrey?

  The ego loves that. And the pain body really loves it.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  And that becomes a danger for considering yourself as a victim.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  There's no denying that there were and are people who are victims of other people. There's no denying that. However, the danger is when you recognize that there's a... you were a victim or even your ancestors were victims, that you can inherit that. The important thing is to go beyond having a victim identity, which means you seek your sense of self in having been a victim. The ego loves that too. The ego will cling to that because then the ego... It seeks always superiority.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Now, you might want to ask, well, how is the ego superior if it has a victim identity? Well, the reason it is superior when it has a victim identity, the implication is that other people who do not have the victim identity, you're morally superior to those who are not victims or who are regarded as perpetrators. Immediately to be a victim puts in an imagined moral superiority to what that's the ego loves that, obviously. So you need to differentiate between recognizing certain facts that happened.

• 52:50Oprah Winfrey?

  The ego loves to think, I'm better than them.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:53Oprah Winfrey?

  Better than they are, and the ego loves to other.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  It seeks some way of doing it.

• 52:58Oprah Winfrey?

  Yes.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  If you can't be the great victor, then you can be a great victim.

• 53:02Oprah Winfrey?

  Yeah, yeah. We had so much more to talk about. We're going to continue with another episode. So I hope you'll join me for part two with Eckhart Tolle and A New Earth. Thank you, Eckhart Tolle. Thank you for the gift that is A New Earth. Thank you to our extraordinary partner, Starbucks, for supporting us here. I hope this episode actually inspires you to read A New Earth and talk about it with a friend, maybe over a couple of Starbucks. And thank you for listening and watching. We hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on the Oprah Podcast. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, everybody. A new earth.

• 53:47Oprah Winfrey?

  Thanks.