Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 25: Twenty Knives

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia! This week, K & G recap Episode 25: Twenty Knives. Georgia discussed Christopher Dorner’s killing spree and Karen covered the tragic Cheshire Murders. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and much more!

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Georgia Hardstark?

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• 0:10Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:12Georgia Hardstark?

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• 0:15Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:24Georgia Hardstark?

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• 0:29Karen Kilgariff?

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• 0:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Audible, stories that speak to you. Goodbye.

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• 1:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

• 1:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And if you celebrate, Merry freaking Christmas.

• 1:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, hi, Merry Christmas. What'd you get? This is our new Wednesday episode where we recap our old episodes. We give you case updates. We talk about what we'd wish we'd talked about the first time around, the whole shebang.

• 1:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And today, we're recapping episode 25, which came out on Thursday, July 14, 2016, which we named 20 Knives.

• 1:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Just a nice rhyme.

• 1:55Georgia Hardstark?

  And so 25, 20 knives?

• 1:58Karen Kilgariff?

  20 knives, yeah.

• 1:58Georgia Hardstark?

  That doesn't make any sense.

• 1:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It's just a rhyme, like it's so Amash to Nipsey Russell.

• 2:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 2:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, okay, look, listen. Okay, let's listen to how we started that episode.

• 2:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Here we go.

• 2:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Um.

• 2:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Did it start?

• 2:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi Karen.

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Georgia, hi.

• 2:20Georgia Hardstark?

  How are you?

• 2:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Pretty good. How and yourself?

• 2:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Good.

• 2:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, we've never met before. Is that correct?

• 2:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Not in person. This whole podcast has been over the phone.

• 2:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 2:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. But now you and I are legally married, so you can enter the country.

• 2:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm so excited to not have to be Canadian anymore. It's such a disgusting place.

• 2:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Hitting. But we have to like, we have to fake our mayor, our green card marriage to the authorities too.

• 2:50Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 2:51Georgia Hardstark?

  So you're gonna have to know a lot about me.

• 2:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Um.

• 2:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Who's my third grade teacher?

• 2:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You like.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  What'd you say? Who's my third grade teacher?

• 2:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, Mrs. Bacon?

• 2:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 3:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Sorry. Go ahead.

• 3:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, no, I, let's do more green card testing. I like it. That's a really funny thing. It's like if you, you're not a true friend unless you memorize someone else's green card information so that you could pass a green card test.

• 3:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Would you green card marry someone?

• 3:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, depends on the situation.

• 3:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. If you're like, it's cool.

• 3:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I, I feel like that's, I did that already.

• 3:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And you didn't even get anything out of it. You've got some nice china.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I really think that that china has gone untouched and can be negotiated for. Comes in a hatch, full set of gorgeous, totally untouched, yet probably slightly cursed.

• 3:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Cursed.

• 3:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Wedding china. Um, I think this time around, I'm gonna go for actually someone that I like and likes, who likes me back.

• 3:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it'll be better.

• 3:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't even think love needs to factor into it.

• 3:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I could go for just high school crush style enjoyment of another person.

• 4:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Just, I feel like the, like, this is the mantra, stoked to be around. Like, you don't have to love them. You should just be stoked to be around them.

• 4:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, what's the difference?

• 4:12Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a good point. Valid.

• 4:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's, that all works out in the end, right? You just kinda end up with somebody.

• 4:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. That's how, yeah.

• 4:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And try to remain stoked.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And try to, try to be your best stokeable person for them.

• 4:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Make sure you increase your stokeability.

• 4:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So you're not like resisting it.

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't even increase it, just like make sure your stokeability is like on an even plane at all ti- like not at all times. Cause you can, today I fucking lost my shit and cried and was like, probably not the stoke-iest person in the world.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I don't, who would want that all the time?

• 4:49Georgia Hardstark?

  To be around, yeah. Plus I look so cute when I cry.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  You really looked great when you answered the door, all mad.

• 4:55Georgia Hardstark?

  My eyes get bright green.

• 4:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, so do mine.

• 4:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I look like, um, that one alien lady from Star Trek when I cry.

• 5:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 5:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's like legit, it legitimately scares people, cause my eyes turn red in one instant.

• 5:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's, I kind of look like Firestarter a little bit.

• 5:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Also you like fires, cause you just get so angry.

• 5:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I tell you who I'm stoked on right now?

• 5:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Please.

• 5:21Karen Kilgariff?

  This is gonna go into, I'm not sure if this is Celebrity Center or, uh, our new segment called Recommendations. Wait, do we call, do we call that anything before? When we talked about TV shows we like?

• 5:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No, let's just call it Check This Shit.

• 5:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Check This Ship. Ben Air Boom.

• 5:40Karen Kilgariff?

  The new HBO series, The Night Of.

• 5:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, oh.

• 5:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Is so good.

• 5:44Georgia Hardstark?

  So good.

• 5:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And I am so intensely in love.

• 5:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 5:49Karen Kilgariff?

  With Riz Ahmed, who's the lead guy.

• 5:51Georgia Hardstark?

  How is he so cute?

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It's because his eyes are unnaturally large. And he uses them against you.

• 5:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 5:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, he is a trickster. Like, he, he looks so innocent in this.

• 6:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 6:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And sweet and like.

• 6:05Georgia Hardstark?

  What was he in before this?

• 6:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Sad. He was in Nightcrawler. He was the assistant in Nightcrawler. And he's been in, um, he's been in a bunch of stuff. He was like in the Centurion movie with Michael Fassbender.

• 6:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Like shit, you're just like, oh yeah, that guy was in that. That one guy.

• 6:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, well, he's often plays a Middle Eastern person, so it's that because he's Pakistani.

• 6:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, like, he was in The Reluctant Fundamentalist, I believe it was called, with, uh, Ray Donovan.

• 6:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 6:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Um.

• 6:36Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, it's, and he's British, that's the most amazing.

• 6:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Is he British?

• 6:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop it. So it's, it's one episode and that was like, and it was like a pre, pre showing of it.

• 6:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was a sneak preview.

• 6:49Georgia Hardstark?

  We don't even get the second episode. And what's his-

• 6:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Isn't it tonight? Someone told me it was tonight.

• 6:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone told me that they're showing the actual first episode tonight.

• 6:56Karen Kilgariff?

  So re-showing the one we've already seen.

• 6:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, which is stupid. So maybe not.

• 6:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll watch it.

• 7:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, it's so good. It's about-

• 7:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like a play.

• 7:03Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like a play. It's about a dude who basically finds, let's say he finds a body. Let's just say.

• 7:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Why explain it?

• 7:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And go watch it.

• 7:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Because, because once you get into it, see like when I saw the previews, I thought I knew what it was.

• 7:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 7:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And then once I watched it, I was like, oh, this reminds me of the way The Wire felt.

• 7:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a whodunit.

• 7:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And John, it's like a whodunit with John Turturro. What more do you fucking need in your life?

• 7:32Karen Kilgariff?

  But also all those actors, like that guy that played the one cop with the mustache at the station is from Angels in America. Like there's all these Broadway and like very high level, but not like super commercially known actors in there. So it all feels really real.

• 7:48Georgia Hardstark?

  It does feel, I, I like that. So the main cop really, it's the procedural shit is interesting because the way they talk him into getting a DNA sample from him and then casually say, we also need to swab your dick, bro.

• 8:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Was like, it seemed so realistic.

• 8:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's horrifying. It's just horrifying.

• 8:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And they're like, why do you need a lawyer? Casualty of it all.

• 8:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's not give too much away.

• 8:15Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, get into it.

• 8:16Karen Kilgariff?

  You, you, it's, you, you'll thank us.

• 8:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Get into it. Come back to us. Let us know what you think.

• 8:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, keep your eye peeled for Riz Ahmed, who will be one of the stars of the next Star Wars movie. He's just an up and comer. He's, he's a fresh young face. That will be mine.

• 8:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Says Karen Kilgariff. Man, that's Karen Kilgariff's take. That's like, that's like the, like, the movie review on like Entertainment Tonight. And that's Karen Kilgariff's take.

• 8:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Didn't you have a recommendation?

• 8:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I think that was it.

• 8:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, we had the same one?

• 8:55Georgia Hardstark?

  No, yes, but we were also talking about um, bloodline and how you said it. What were you saying about Florida?

• 9:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I can't, well, I couldn't watch it for, I wa- I tried to like binge watch it, but I started getting high on Florida. Where I was feeling dizzy. It was all those like beautiful, slightly out of focus shots of the beach and like when all the Christmas lights go, it looks like the beginning of the fo- focus features title card. That's what that whole TV show's like.

• 9:20Georgia Hardstark?

  It's also like, you're, it's like, it's like a hundred and two plus all the humidity.

• 9:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, you know, and then what's her name? The sister?

• 9:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Linda Cardellini?

• 9:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Like, I knew you'd know that.

• 9:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I, yeah, I'm a fan.

• 9:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, her outfits for a lawyer are fuck, are you fucking kidding me?

• 9:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, y- you mean like her very skimpy sundress in all?

• 9:42Georgia Hardstark?

  She wears these skimpy as fuck shorts and these like platform, like Payless, and I'm not talking shit on Payless because I fucking wear the shit out of Payless shoes, but you can't go into a court of law dressed like that. You'd be held in contempt.

• 9:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Girl, that's Florida.

• 10:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, there, it's a lot. It's, and her hair is always so perfect. I know I'm lady shaming right now.

• 10:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's a TV show.

• 10:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And Kevin is just the most realistic character in all, in the whole show.

• 10:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Is that the fuck up brother?

• 10:13Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the fuck up brother.

• 10:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 10:15Georgia Hardstark?

  All right.

• 10:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we had one of those in my family.

• 10:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck up brothers?

• 10:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, no matter what happened, when they were coming back into town, it was like, oh, everybody get ready.

• 10:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why I'm scared to have kids. Like, what if you have the fuck up kid?

• 10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Oh, speaking of which, uh, it's not one in four every four people's sociopath?

• 10:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's do, this is corrections corner.

• 10:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Corrections corner.

• 10:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Because I was about to say you had a one in four chance. I was about to repeat my same incorrect information. That's what I'm like.

• 10:43Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, you guys.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Correct me. And someone I believe, off of memory, was named Clint Page on the Facebook page, who said, "I don't want to be a corrected person, but it is not one in four." And then all these other people were like, it is, I think they were saying it's 25%.

• 11:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. It's like, one, it's like.

• 11:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Heyo. So next week, look for next week's correction corner where we correct what we're saying right now. There's some, they're also, um, so there, so one, there's one in four people are not psychopaths. It's like one in, it's not a percent. I don't know. It's not one in four.

• 11:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It, it is not one in four. That's way too high. That's way too low. That's way too many.

• 11:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Also, we got a really beautiful, um, email just letting us know. So last week I did Kitty Genovese as my, uh, favorite murder.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Did you say kidney Genovese?

• 11:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Kidney Genovese. No, because I was sad because I think she got stabbed in the kidneys. So Karen, that's really insensitive.

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  I misheard.

• 11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, that she might've, it's probable that she was a lesbian.

• 11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. They talk about that in the crime to remember episode.

• 11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And it's not, you know, this real, this girl, this girl wrote a really beautiful email to us about how it's like, she's not trying to correct us and it, you know, it's not, it's just a part of it. That's like not fair that she didn't get it to be represented and as how she was. And this girl who had to pretend to be her roommate, you know, actually had a huge loss of her partner.

• 12:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And how sad that was. And, you know, now we're in a time when we can, we can say that she was a lesbian and not, it not be like somehow taint the tragedy of what happened.

• 12:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, in that episode of crime to remember, they talk about their, their gay relationship as being also why people weren't calling the cops. Cause they said there were other gay people in that building that knew, like you don't involve the cops no matter what.

• 12:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa.

• 12:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That was part of the element. But when you were talking about it, because it was from the brother's perspective.

• 12:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I wasn't going to be like, well, and also this, because it's like, if it wasn't in the movie or if he didn't talk about it, maybe they didn't.

• 12:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, here's the thing. I didn't finish it because my fucking computer wouldn't upload it. So that could be the whole second part of the goddamn show.

• 12:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay. Okay.

• 12:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's, yeah.

• 12:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, well, if everybody gets, I mean, that's awesome that somebody wrote in. If you get a chance, the, the, a crime to remember episode about it is, is really good too.

• 13:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, we always close, what?

• 13:07Karen Kilgariff?

  They were the ones that, that thought that that guy did not do it, that got caught.

• 13:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. There was a neighbor. Yeah. Um, we, we always close correction corner, which we've never done before with saying, if you're getting your facts from here, like look, look somewhere else, bro. Right?

• 13:23Karen Kilgariff?

  We are, we like to discuss concepts more than facts.

• 13:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:26Karen Kilgariff?

  And fantasies also.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 13:29Karen Kilgariff?

  More than facts.

• 13:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, there's a reason that this podcast is categorized as comedy.

• 13:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, a very, a pretty good reason.

• 13:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not drama.

• 13:39Georgia Hardstark?

  We're fucking hilarious.

• 13:40Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not fact-based. We do our best, but there's so much talking that it's very easy to take.

• 13:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I guess what I did.

• 13:48Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 13:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Guess what I did in a fit of fucking manic episode last night?

• 13:52Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 13:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Started an Instagram account.

• 13:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, nice. I saw you tweet that, right?

• 13:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And my favorite murder Instagram account.

• 13:59Karen Kilgariff?

  And what are you putting on there? All our arts?

• 14:02Georgia Hardstark?

  I think, yeah, all the arts and crafts and all the like, I just love all the like, the inspirational quotes of every episode that are made by Shaz Amanda. She does an incredible job of just like finding the stupidest quotes we put and like making them into like these like great posters.

• 14:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Inspirational looking posters, but it's things like, I hope we don't get stabbed.

• 14:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:26Karen Kilgariff?

  To like a bride and a groom.

• 14:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking lunatic.

• 14:29Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very good.

• 14:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So there's a lot of art that people are making that I'm posting and.

• 14:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, are you talking about the memes or are you talking about that girl that does like hand lettering?

• 14:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Both.

• 14:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 14:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I put them both up.

• 14:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Got it.

• 14:40Georgia Hardstark?

  So I'm just gonna post, I'm gonna post things and stuff related to the podcast.

• 14:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's good. We can also do pictures. Like, remember that time that I did, that there was that terrible man? Oh, he was one of the, he was in the story about the babysitter killer?

• 14:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:57Karen Kilgariff?

  And he had the craziest, scariest looking mugshot of all time.

• 14:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to Instagram to see his photo.

• 15:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 15:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. This is where we started with a lot of beautiful things, our obsession with RZA Med, our fucking Instagram account.

• 15:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, things that really made us, built us as people and podcasters.

• 15:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 15:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 15:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That, if you have not seen the HBO series The Night Of.

• 15:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That was so good.

• 15:24Karen Kilgariff?

  It is one of the most incredible false imprisonment stories. Incredible. And he's such a good actor, as we all know.

• 15:31Georgia Hardstark?

  He is. Says he's gonna be Hamlet, upcoming modern adaptation of Hamlet.

• 15:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, well, he's gonna be in it. Is he gonna be Hamlet?

• 15:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Says he's going to be Hamlet.

• 15:39Karen Kilgariff?

  He's gonna be Hamlet.

• 15:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations. What a role.

• 15:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you know that somebody, and I wish I had your name right now, I'm so sorry, but it is in my drawer, in my bedside table, somebody embroidered that little bag, do you remember that? They gave it to me at a live show and it said, it's embroidered Briz Ahmed's face and my face. And then it's the quote I have that it's like, some insane quote I said where it's like, it's something crazy.

• 16:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Take a photo of it and send it, we'll post it on our Instagram account, which is at My Favorite Murder, which is still going strong.

• 16:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right. You know what? I'm gonna take it out of that drawer.

• 16:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Do it.

• 16:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna bring it, I'm gonna put it on the shelf behind me.

• 16:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, Alhundra, make her do it.

• 16:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Can you help me do that?

• 16:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And give her credit.

• 16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  It says something like, I love him, like, you know, with the power of a thousand suns.

• 16:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that sounds right.

• 16:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Something real crazy that when someone embroiders it, you start to realize how insane you sound and you try to stop saying stuff like that.

• 16:32Georgia Hardstark?

  But you don't, and eight and a half years later, here you are.

• 16:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Try as you might. So this episode is, it starts heavy and then it gets really bad.

• 16:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. You'd think we would have learned at some point, not just in the most recent past, to do a hard one and a soft one, but.

• 16:51Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 16:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope.

• 16:52Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the way we do it, and apparently this is the way the listeners like it. So this is Georgia, she went first on this episode. It's the case of murderer Christopher Dorner.

• 17:02Georgia Hardstark?

  This is a rough one.

• 17:08Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 17:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 17:17Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 17:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone and SimpliSafe is gonna show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there. They already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 17:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 18:03Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 18:11Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Nothing makes you take a good, hard look at your furniture like inviting people over for the holidays.

• 18:20Georgia Hardstark?

  So give your home a little holiday upgrade with Article.

• 18:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.

• 18:28Georgia Hardstark?

  They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

• 18:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And with Article's 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it.

• 18:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Plus, Article's customer care team is available seven days a week. I know we're getting into fall and winter, but we live in Los Angeles, so my outdoor furniture is just like the perfect focal point for the pool parties we still end up having. Sorry, everyone, when it's like sunny and gorgeous year round. I sit on my Article patio furniture every morning and have my coffee and watch Cookie lay in the sun. And the whole thing is just so peaceful and pretty. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 19:15Karen Kilgariff?

  To claim, visit article.com/murder and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

• 19:20Georgia Hardstark?

  That's article.com/murder for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 19:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 19:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

• 19:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

• 19:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Bombas has your favorite footwear for fall, including new suede moccasins with cushy soles, shearling lining, and water-resistant suede, plus soft slippers, slides, and booties.

• 19:44Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a Bombas sock for pretty much any fall occasion, from warm merino wool blends to sweat-wicking sport socks and dressier options for weather.

• 19:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties pretty much in every room, so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly. And they're so comfy, you can wear them around the house, I wear them to bed, and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 20:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to Bombas.com/MFM and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 20:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM, code MFM at checkout.

• 20:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 20:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, I think you're first this week. Okay. Right as, right as you got perfectly comfortable. I was so comfortable just now. I waited till you adjusted that pillow. All right, so I didn't know that I have, I have a hometown murder, but it took place

• 20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  15 years after I moved away from my hometown. So is it technically my hometown? Yeah, if that's where you're from. So we got this really great email from this dude who was like, I've heard you mention you're from Irvine and that you worked in the Woodbridge Village Center at this place where I could have been killed. Um, and we're like, I just want you to know where we're doing it. And if you come and like, visit it, I'll take you to the parking, the parking garage where Christopher Dorner's killing spree started. Whoa. And I was, and he's like, which I'm sure you know about. And I was like, wait, what? Do you know about this? I know about Christopher Dorner. So I do too, but, and this happened in 2013, which is like, not that long ago,

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  which seems like, it seems like so much longer ago. And I didn't realize it started in Irvine. I didn't either. Yeah. So in February 2013, Christopher Dorner, who was 33, started his killing spree that lasted, I think, two days, a couple of days, a few days, like a week. What is life? So he grew up in Southern California. He was a former United States Navy Reserve officer. He was deployed to Bahrain. Um, he was discharged from the Navy in 2013. I think it's Bahrain.

• 22:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, that's a guess, though. I could also be wrong.

• 22:16Georgia Hardstark?

  As I was saying it, I was like, I'm not going to be like a Fox News correspondent who says everything wrong. And so I like, said it wrong.

• 22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 22:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No, don't sorry. Me sorry.

• 22:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 22:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So after his tour in Iraq, it's Iraq, right?

• 22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Or is it Iraq?

• 22:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I pulled that A out way longer.

• 22:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Or A-Rock?

• 22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  A-Rock.

• 22:41Georgia Hardstark?

  A-Rock. Um, he, he goes to Los Angeles. He's, he goes back to the police department in 27, in 2007. He's paired with a training officer named Teresa Evans to complete his probationary training. In 2008, he files a report against her.

• 23:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 23:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, that she used excessive force in her treatment of a suspect who was a schizophrenic with severe dementia. And he says that Evans, uh, twice kicked this suspect in the face while he was handcuffed and lying on the ground.

• 23:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 23:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So after he files this report, Dorner gets fired from the LAPD in 2008 for making false statements.

• 23:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh oh.

• 23:29Georgia Hardstark?

  They were like, you're fucking lying, basically. Um, and his attorney at the hearing is Randall Kuan, Q U A N. And he's like defending Dorner, saying that he was, he was treated unfairly and he's being made a scapegoat, basically, you know, saying the police department didn't want to admit that she used excessive force, so they fired him instead.

• 23:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow. Cause you're not, basically you're not allowed to rat out your fellow officer.

• 23:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what it seems like Dorner assumed. So he tries to get his job back, but the LAPD's Board of Rights rejected his appeal. Um, he took his case to court with Randall Kuan as his attorney and a judge ruled against it in October 2011.

• 24:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 24:13Georgia Hardstark?

  So Dorner's like, basically snaps at this point.

• 24:18Georgia Hardstark?

  So the murders start, weirdly enough, with the murder of this Randall Kwan's daughter and her fiance in Irvine in a parking structure, which I was just looking up and I'm pretty sure it's where my dad's apartment was.

• 24:36Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 24:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, which is across-

• 24:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Like they lived in the same place?

• 24:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I think so. So I think it happened across the street from where I grew up.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 24:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Where my dad lived. Cause I don't even know. So February 3rd, 2013, he just fucking goes up to them, they're in their car in a parking garage and shoots them. And like, remember that coming out in the news and it, and finding out who the father was and being like, oh shit, this is like, you could tell it was a revenge killing immediately. And it's just such a fucking huge bummer that this girl and her 27-year-old fiance,

• 25:19Georgia Hardstark?

  named Keith Lawrence, just got shot to death because this guy went crazy. So immediately you have no sympathy for this dude.

• 25:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So this is his public defender that he basically, or maybe not public defender, but this is his lawyer for that case.

• 25:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Who, they lost the case and he didn't get his job back. And so he went and killed that lawyer's daughter and fiance.

• 25:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And he had this crazy manifesto basically saying,

• 25:45Georgia Hardstark?

  basically saying that he didn't fight hard enough. He says, "Your lack of ethics and conspiring to wrong a just individual are over. Suppressing the truth will lead to deadly consequences for you and your family. There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep.

• 26:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Look, look your wives slash husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead."

• 26:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause you killed them?

• 26:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Just, I mean, and the, don't kill the judge, not the fucking lawyer's family. I'm sorry, right?

• 26:21Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't have to pick.

• 26:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, you're right. You know what? Don't kill anyone, A.

• 26:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I think that's the option.

• 26:27Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, great.

• 26:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna get hate, send your, send messages to

• 26:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Look, you were just trying to solve the problem, which would be, don't kill the family.

• 26:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 26:39Karen Kilgariff?

  But, yeah.

• 26:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So Monica Kwan and Keith Lawrence fucking shot to death.

• 26:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, so he has this crazy manifesto, he wants to seek revenge. And he just like writes this insane, "I will bring unconventional, unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in the LAPD in a form, whether on or off duty." Like this motherfucker is like,

• 27:03Karen Kilgariff?

  He's on one.

• 27:04Georgia Hardstark?

  He's targeting a large group of people rather than, you know, individuals, which is terrifying. Um, he says he was terminated after he reported excess force. Um, and his, and his attacks are retribution for his termination, as well as cultural racism and violence that continues within the department. So while searched, so suddenly this huge manhunt is on for Dorner. Police shoot two, so police suddenly just start shooting people.

• 27:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 27:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Cause they're freaking the fuck out.

• 27:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Georgia Hardstark?

  So there's a truck that, that the cops thought was his truck, they shot the shit out of it.

• 27:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's, those were the two women delivering the newspaper.

• 27:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 27:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And they just started shooting a truck.

• 27:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And if you, there's photos online of like, how many fucking shots are in this truck?

• 27:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 27:53Georgia Hardstark?

  They also shot another pickup truck matching this description of like, a dude who was like, on his way to go surfing. In fucking Orange County, or like,

• 28:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And they shot it up?

• 28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  They shot the shit out of this truck. Both, everyone lived, but they also sued the shit out of, you know?

• 28:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they did.

• 28:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 28:10Georgia Hardstark?

  But at the same ti- I'm, I'm pissed about that, but I'm also like, how terrifying. I mean, wh- which is, which is better?

• 28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I mean, this is the kind of the crux of everything that's happening right now.

• 28:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's very.

• 28:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It is a high pressure job, it is a scary job, and it's the kind of job where you have to be able to handle, handle yourself with a gun.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 28:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So if you think that, basically you can't start shooting vehicles, cause you think your suspect is inside.

• 28:41Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 28:41Karen Kilgariff?

  That's not the way you're allowed to apprehend people.

• 28:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And the other thing too is like, as a police officer, there's, there's an amount of danger involved with your

• 28:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Job that you sign up for.

• 28:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 28:55Georgia Hardstark?

  So you approaching the vehicle and IDing the suspect and possibly getting killed by doing that is what's supposed to happen, not the possibility of civilians getting killed.

• 29:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Yes, and I mean, and that's why there's procedures so that when you approach that vehicle, you're calling in, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, did they yell, put your hands outside of the vehicle? And those two women, they didn't get close enough to see it was two women, they didn't get close enough to see that they didn't speak English. I don't know what the problem was, I don't know the details about it, but like, it doesn't make sense that you just.

• 29:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It's also a large, Jordan was a large black fan. And they shot up two women and like, a white guy, who was a surfer.

• 29:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So like, clearly they weren't, yeah, they weren't doing enough, um, research into this. So they find his truck abandoned and burning near Big Bear. And I remember this, at this point, I was like, fuck, thank God he's not in Los Angeles. Like, I totally didn't leave the house.

• 29:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 29:58Georgia Hardstark?

  And then two of Riverside's officers were shot in an ambush. One died, the other one was taken to the hospital. And then they believe, they believe he just drove up to the vehicle at a stoplight and fired with a rifle at these two dudes. Thirty-four-year-old Michael Crane, who was on the fucking Riverside force for 11 years, died. They searched at least 400 homes in the area. Terrifying. Do you think they found anything in certain people's houses that were like, we'll be back for this?

• 30:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Your weird sex swing in the corner.

• 30:28Georgia Hardstark?

  The meth lab, we'll be back for this.

• 30:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Right now?

• 30:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Today's your lucky day.

• 30:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Karen Kilgariff?

  If not that. But we'll be back. Tomorrow will be your unlucky day.

• 30:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, right, right, right. Um, so the manhunt enters its second week, so it's two weeks. Um, and then Karen and James Reynolds are cleaning out their Big Bear cabin that they own and rent it out, not far from the command center. When they were confronted by Dorner, who had been living there for a couple of days.

• 30:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, so he broke into their empty big bear cabin?

• 30:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I also want to talk to Karen and James about why they're cleaning out their cabin at a time when there's a massive manhunt for like.

• 31:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that's not going to affect us. We'll just go up there and grab that wood bear toilet paper dispenser.

• 31:11Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, my Aunt Suzie is coming up for the weekend and you know how she gets about dust bunnies. Why are they, why are they southern?

• 31:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's fun. That's how people know we've gone into a scene lit, which is our newest segment. Scene lit.

• 31:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Scene lit. So Karen and James, but they're kind of badasses because they were tied up in blindfold, blindfolded. He took the keys to their maroon Nissan Rouge. Didn't know that was a car.

• 31:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't think it is anymore.

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It probably isn't because of this.

• 31:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Discontinued.

• 31:41Georgia Hardstark?

  But he, he kind of was like, he said to them, like, I don't want to kill you fuckers. Like, he, he wasn't trying to kill civilians, except for the lawyers. I think he thought.

• 31:53Karen Kilgariff?

  No, he had his kill list. He wasn't just going berserk.

• 31:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. He didn't want to kill this dude, this, this, this couple. He just had, you know, he could have shot them and like taken whatever he wanted and lived there. He could have shot them and stayed there and he didn't.

• 32:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 32:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Not defending him, just saying.

• 32:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Georgia Hardstark?

  So they used their teeth and a knife. They knocked off a nearby table to remove the pillowcases from their heads and the zip ties from their wrists and then called 911.

• 32:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit.

• 32:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude.

• 32:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen and who, what's her husband's name? Richard?

• 32:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Georgia.

• 32:28Karen Kilgariff?

  We're the heroes.

• 32:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen and James Reynolds.

• 32:34Georgia Hardstark?

  So these, I mean, who escaped, escaped zip ties on the rag?

• 32:38Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Ryan Reynolds' parents. That's why they're so awesome.

• 32:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So, let's see here. The, duh, duh, duh, okay. They spotted him driving.

• 32:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, this was in, what season is it? Is, is there snow up there?

• 32:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 32:53Karen Kilgariff?

  This is summertime?

• 32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  This is December, right? What did I say?

• 32:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 32:57Georgia Hardstark?

  October?

• 32:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen, you're really fucking. I'm trying to paint a, a mental picture in my mind.

• 33:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Quiz, your quizzes every week. You quiz me.

• 33:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, what season was it?

• 33:08Georgia Hardstark?

  And what was he wearing underneath his coat? So, this started in February, so.

• 33:13Karen Kilgariff?

  So, there was probably snow.

• 33:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Mid-ish February, yes, it was probably cold.

• 33:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 33:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Why?

• 33:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause I love Big Bear, it's fun. Have you ever gone, like, inner tubing up there?

• 33:22Georgia Hardstark?

  No, but I need to.

• 33:23Karen Kilgariff?

  The best.

• 33:24Georgia Hardstark?

  You mean, like, uh, when you, like, hang out in an inner tube and drink beer and wander around the, or like when you.

• 33:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that would be on a river.

• 33:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 33:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Is what you're thinking of, right? That's summertime. But in the wintertime in Big Bear, they have mountains just off the side of the road, and you can rent inner tubes. And then you go up a little, like, cloth escalator up the side of the snowy mountain, get up on the top, there's like a teen there with a whistle or whatever.

• 33:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 33:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And then you just go down, and it is the most fun.

• 33:52Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're following my Instagram account, you will see a photo of me at five years old, inner tube, in Big Bear.

• 33:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, going down that snowy hill?

• 34:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 34:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 34:01Georgia Hardstark?

  My dad lived in Lake Huron for a hot minute. Do you have a photo? Let's post our fucking tubing photos.

• 34:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's give the people what they want.

• 34:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Instagram, inner tubing.

• 34:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Murder and tubing.

• 34:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I might just put up a picture, uh, just a picture of an inner tube, and just a celebration of inner tubes. Cause they really, summer, winter, fall, what a great vehicle for fun.

• 34:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Tubes.

• 34:25Karen Kilgariff?

  The inner tube.

• 34:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Tubes, dude.

• 34:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Tubes.

• 34:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Tubing.

• 34:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry.

• 34:29Georgia Hardstark?

  No, don't, never be. Oh, wait, where was I? Duh, duh, duh.

• 34:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Karen and Richard have just escaped from the clutches of.

• 34:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god. Then they find a purple car, cause how many purple Nissans are there on the roads? Probably not a lot.

• 34:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Purple Nissan Rouge.

• 34:46Georgia Hardstark?

  I feel like that was his, besides killing people, his biggest mistake.

• 34:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, don't get into a purple car.

• 34:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't get into a purple car.

• 34:51Karen Kilgariff?

  What are you, fucking Guy Fieri? Get out of that car. No, this is not the time to flash.

• 34:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, this is not the time to be quirky in your car. Escapism means a beige or white car.

• 35:05Karen Kilgariff?

  That's, that's exactly right.

• 35:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 35:07Karen Kilgariff?

  How about a nice gold, uh, Corolla? No one will ever look at you.

• 35:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Gold?

• 35:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you will. Not like bright gold, but you know, like a kind of.

• 35:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Muted. A muted gold. A bronze.

• 35:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Muted tones, a bronze.

• 35:22Georgia Hardstark?

  But you know what? A light blue. The car I drive, so boring.

• 35:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, that's right. Light blue.

• 35:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I hate it.

• 35:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's.

• 35:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I want a car that like, I walk into a parking garage, such as the one that these poor people got killed in.

• 35:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And I'm gonna be like, that's my orange car over there.

• 35:36Karen Kilgariff?

  You do want that?

• 35:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 35:38Karen Kilgariff?

  You do want an orange car?

• 35:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 35:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 35:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I really want an orange car.

• 35:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, what, can you give me an example of an orange car?

• 35:45Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a lot of Honda Fits that are orange.

• 35:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yes.

• 35:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 35:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, would you say it's a little more copper than like, say a clown?

• 35:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a burnt orange.

• 35:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 35:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And I love it.

• 35:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what I'm looking for, is not clown orange.

• 35:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Good.

• 35:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 35:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Can I go on?

• 35:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No. Also, see, well, how do you feel about dark blue?

• 36:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Electric blue, I'm cool with.

• 36:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

• 36:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

• 36:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Cool, cool.

• 36:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool, cool, be cool. Elvis, you cool?

• 36:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm cool.

• 36:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Uh, let's see, they find, they spot his car. He's tailing two school buses for cover. So a purple car is tailing two school buses.

• 36:24Karen Kilgariff?

  You mean like to hide behind them?

• 36:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like to just be like, I'm inconspicuous.

• 36:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, no.

• 36:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't do that.

• 36:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-mm.

• 36:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Gun battle ensues. Um, he crashes and, and he runs and quickly hijacks, carjacks a pickup truck. Again, saying to the dude, I don't want to kill you, get the fuck out of the car. Like, not gonna kill innocent civilians. Or like, un, not innocent, but un.

• 36:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Involved.

• 36:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Involved civilians. Goes to a cab.

• 36:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You say not innocent. Are you just worried that maybe?

• 36:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm saying, I'm not saying that.

• 36:54Karen Kilgariff?

  The driver's a douche.

• 36:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm just saying that those people are innocent.

• 36:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 36:58Georgia Hardstark?

  The people that killed. Yeah, but they're not involved. So I don't say they're not innocent. They're innocent too.

• 37:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, duh, duh, duh. This dude Collins shows up at the, at the big bear cabin where, um, he's at. The first there, wanna know where he gets shot?

• 37:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, wait, wait. Who's Collins?

• 37:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Collins is this cop, this, uh, San Bernardino police officer deputy. He gets to the cabin where Doran has run into after his, he crashes his pickup truck.

• 37:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, got it.

• 37:24Georgia Hardstark?

  He makes his final stand here. We're coming to a close. Don't worry, people who aren't into killing sprees, which I understand. Um, gun drawn, he gets from the cabin, he's shot. But he does, he lives, so don't worry about it.

• 37:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 37:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Beneath his left nostril.

• 37:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 37:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Shattered his teeth and exits slightly below his jaw.

• 37:44Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the Collins, the, the new guy or?

• 37:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Collins dude.

• 37:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 37:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Who made a joke later that he looks better now than he did before. Like, he's a sweet baby angel.

• 37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  God bless him.

• 37:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, and he survived.

• 37:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I wouldn't hate getting my teeth shattered out in brand new ones. So I'll just say that. I'm just saying, there's always a positive.

• 38:03Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 38:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. I'd like him kicked out.

• 38:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Just kidding. So you're gonna come with your P O. box or what?

• 38:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how we'll do it. All of our dreams are gonna come true.

• 38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my.

• 38:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll keep you from getting killed by putting my teeth in front of whatever the weapon is.

• 38:19Georgia Hardstark?

  She threw her teeth in front of the bullet.

• 38:21Karen Kilgariff?

  She gave up those slant, upward slanty Irish teeth as if they were nothing.

• 38:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Your teeth are fine.

• 38:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-mm.

• 38:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Says the girl with Invisalign.

• 38:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Invisalign.

• 38:32Georgia Hardstark?

  That sounds like a Madeline book.

• 38:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 38:34Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Shot again, mother, the fucking Collins shot again below his left knee. That's gotta hurt and in his left arm.

• 38:41Karen Kilgariff?

  In his face and knee and arm.

• 38:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Which this guy, this guy, uh, Dorner was a, um, sharpshooter from the Navy. So maybe he didn't. I mean, you get shot in the fucking face, you're trying to kill someone.

• 38:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You're trying to kill someone, that's a headshot.

• 38:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a headshot.

• 38:54Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't really talk your way out of that.

• 38:55Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 38:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, you made that list of people you were gonna kill.

• 38:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:58Karen Kilgariff?

  In Massapezzo.

• 38:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like, this guy who like, lives in San Bernardino, probably with like, his sweet kids and like, wife, whatever. Ex-wife, I don't know.

• 39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And now he's okay to the point where he can make jokes about it.

• 39:10Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what it seemed, that's what the news says.

• 39:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 39:12Georgia Hardstark?

  What the news.

• 39:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's all I need to know.

• 39:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Sometime, okay, yes.

• 39:15Karen Kilgariff?

  So, yes.

• 39:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Good. So, police toss smoke devices into the cabin. Cabin catches fire and burned for hours.

• 39:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And he was inside?

• 39:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The sheriff, they said they found charred human remains among the ashes. So, do we even know if it's his body? And also, people said that um, he had, he had a gunshot in his head, but we don't know that. I don't know if that's.

• 39:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So, he killed himself and then the cabin burned down?

• 39:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I think he probably was dying from smoke and then, I don't know.

• 39:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And then shot himself?

• 39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, I stopped investigating at this point. Karen, sorry, sorry.

• 39:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I just remember the story.

• 39:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And it was like, they have him surrounded, they had him surrounded for a while, then it was like, we're going in.

• 40:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Ever.

• 40:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it was like, he's dead, it's over.

• 40:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I was watching this shit probably at a bar.

• 40:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 40:05Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, like, this was a big news story here in LA.

• 40:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It really was.

• 40:08Georgia Hardstark?

  We, I think LA, we hate our car, uh, what are they called? Car chases.

• 40:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Carjackers?

• 40:14Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we, we as people who've lived in LA for a long time are sick of uh, the news being like, uh, car chases. They're fucking egregious and stupid and obnoxious. I only saw one recently that ended amazingly where this, this woman is like making all these crazy, no, no, no. This person is making all these crazy turns, I just gave it away. And she like finally stops, gets out of her car, hands up, it's a woman. Everyone in the public house that I'm in cheer, because they're shocked that it's a chick. And she starts walking towards him with her hands up, then fucking makes a bolting beeline to the cop car to steal the cop car. Go away.

• 40:51Karen Kilgariff?

  No way.

• 40:52Georgia Hardstark?

  And everyone in the bar like is fucking cheering for her and she gets caught. But it was like the sweetest move.

• 40:59Karen Kilgariff?

  That's amazing.

• 40:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 41:01Karen Kilgariff?

  What drugs do you think she was on?

• 41:02Georgia Hardstark?

  All of them.

• 41:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 41:04Georgia Hardstark?

  At least, um, what's the one they always told you not to do? Because it could like.

• 41:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Angel dust?

• 41:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 41:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's the one where you lift the cop car over your head.

• 41:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's, how about our Paris, or uh, what's not, what's it called, our um?

• 41:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Instagram?

• 41:15Georgia Hardstark?

  No, the one you make money off of.

• 41:18Karen Kilgariff?

  On social media?

• 41:20Georgia Hardstark?

  The um.

• 41:20Karen Kilgariff?

  PayPal.

• 41:21Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 41:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Anyways. Patreon. Patreon, thank you, Stephen. How about Patreon, we do angel dust. Just see what happens. It's just a video of us doing angel dust. Like, with kids, here's what happens.

• 41:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm putting this on the to do list. We're gonna get dusted.

• 41:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Alright.

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Um.

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm finishing this up, I'm so sorry. But, but here's the crazy thing, is the police, Los Angeles Police, announced the department reopened the investigation into his case that led to his termination after he was dead.

• 41:50Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 41:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And Chief Beck said, "I do not appease a murderer, I do it to reassure the public that their police department is transparent and fair in all things we do."

• 42:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 42:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 42:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Wouldn't that happen recently?

• 42:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, this happened on Google.

• 42:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Why have I asked you one question? I feel very bad.

• 42:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Should I be embarrassed? No. Not at all.

• 42:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I just meant like, was it a, a?

• 42:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I know what you mean.

• 42:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I get, here's my thing. Every, it seems like every day we spend, every other police department in the world looks terrible.

• 42:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And slowly but surely, LAPD doesn't seem so bad.

• 42:31Georgia Hardstark?

  They really don't.

• 42:32Karen Kilgariff?

  These days.

• 42:33Georgia Hardstark?

  These days they don't.

• 42:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, if you watch the, uh, The Simpsons 30 by 30, they don't look so good.

• 42:40Georgia Hardstark?

  They don't, and that's why I feel like they're trying to be like, "Sorry about that one."

• 42:43Karen Kilgariff?

  But I mean, something like that where it would be worst case scenario if it was like, what if he was right the whole time?

• 42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:49Karen Kilgariff?

  That's nightmarish.

• 42:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, some people get fired and don't go fucking nuts. But guess what? They don't get talked about on My Favorite Murder, do they?

• 42:57Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Uh, well, also, the fact that there's probably a, at least a 50 to 50 chance he had PTSD from being.

• 43:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 43:06Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, like it was.

• 43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Baharun?

• 43:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Where was it?

• 43:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Bahrain?

• 43:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Bahrain. He probably had PTSD, his neighbors said that.

• 43:16Georgia Hardstark?

  He was a member of an admired, well-liked family who usually kept to themselves. That's always a bad sign. Don't keep to yourselves, you guys.

• 43:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Put it out there on the porch.

• 43:24Georgia Hardstark?

  He was divorced in 2007, no kids, so he probably lost his mind. And then you lose this job that you've been working towards since high school when you went into the Navy.

• 43:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's probably your identity.

• 43:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's like, what?

• 43:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And he was probably correct in her using excessive force.

• 43:41Karen Kilgariff?

  And he was probably correct in the internal racism, which we all know is a very real fact that all police departments aren't allowed to acknowledge.

• 43:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, this guy would have gotten his day of celebrating if he just had not gone on a killing spree. Like, I feel like by now, he would have been like, uh...

• 44:00Karen Kilgariff?

  But, you know what? They'd... Well, I wonder. That'd be really interesting to know if, like, if it goes back that... If it reverses itself. But the problem is, like, he was one of those people where he couldn't handle the shame.

• 44:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, he was basically publicly shamed and had his identity taken away. And then it's like, there are people who, if you do that to them, they have to retaliate.

• 44:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 44:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, they can't sit with it.

• 44:26Georgia Hardstark?

  He reported this crime in 2008. It happened in 2007. He got a divorce in 2007. So it's just like, he's in a world of pain.

• 44:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 44:37Georgia Hardstark?

  So I did... So I, of course, went to Reddit because I'm like, what do they have to say? It's always something good. So, docgray187000, as I read that, I'm like, he might be not... 187? He says his manifesto sounded so plausible. "I don't want people killed," uh, or otherwise. "But it's understood that sometimes humans have to kill humans, isn't it? Cops carry guns, soldiers carry guns. The only question is justification, right? So if the government and their guard dogs are thoroughly corrupt," as Donner asserted, "and use unnecessarily deadly force, have callous disregard for human life, and are in a mutual protection agreement with prosecutors, what are good people supposed to do?"

• 45:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 45:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And he says, do you know how Dorner was caught? He carjacked a dude on a secluded road and told him, I don't want to hurt you. And then let him go. And that dude turned him and he also commandeered that cabin, but let the residents live.

• 45:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Contrast with the innocent civilians, the LAPD hurt in their quest to get Dorner and his gruesome death. Who am I supposed to root for?

• 45:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, that's a, it's not a binary thing. It's not, you don't root for anybody because here's the thing, those cops didn't want to kill anybody, but they were reacting. They are the ones being hunted.

• 45:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And maybe they weren't trained well enough.

• 45:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 45:58Georgia Hardstark?

  To know what to do in a situation like that.

• 46:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It immediately just makes me go, the night, the night that they investigated the John Benet murder, they sent the two newest cops over because of his Christmas.

• 46:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:10Karen Kilgariff?

  It's that kind of thing.

• 46:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Before we get hate mail, I want to assure everyone that I don't hate cops. I think they're fucking, I think the majority are working their asses off to be good people and have, you know, the best interest of, and it's a hard job and you're putting your life on the line. You just only hear about the bad ones.

• 46:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, but, and you, but the problem is I heard a DJ talking about this. I tweeted about it. A DJ, he was just saying, there's never any, they just never cop to anything. And you can't do that when you're shooting people.

• 46:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Dead in cars. When, when you have people who are shooting people in the back or strangling them on video, you can't continually be like, they're innocent.

• 46:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 46:54Karen Kilgariff?

  They're innocent. That's when you're built, if you, if you're never being a stand up, you know, and, and never, you know, these are obviously.

• 47:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Getting, if you're not getting punished by the higher ups and saying that they did this thing wrong.

• 47:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That means that there's no accounting for the behavior.

• 47:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's acceptable.

• 47:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That's a huge fucking problem. And if it's the same people, but getting targeted all the time. I mean, this snares you right into, the Christopher Dorner story snares you into everything that's happening right now.

• 47:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 47:23Karen Kilgariff?

  In our culture.

• 47:23Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 47:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. That'd be horrifying if it, if he was completely innocent and then just basically snapped.

• 47:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Karen Kilgariff?

  As opposed to the story that was built in the media is kind of like, oh, here's this crazy guy that like tried to lie about somebody else. And, you know, they had him, they had him like vilified from the beginning.

• 47:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 47:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, I just touched probably a ton of nerves of listeners. So go to my P O box and let me know what you think.

• 47:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like people listen to this to get nerves touched. I mean, that's the whole idea.

• 47:54Georgia Hardstark?

  By the way, I also checked out my P O box number.

• 47:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, if you can't live with it, why do it?

• 47:59Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't do it.

• 48:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Georgia Hardstark?

  I'd rather not have presents

• 48:03Georgia Hardstark?

  from listeners. I think it's fine. So yeah, that's my favorite murder of this Irvine.

• 48:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Irvine.

• 48:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen, how was that? Was that okay?

• 48:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, we're back. Do you want to start with some case updates?

• 48:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I mentioned that the L A P D reopened the investigation into Dorner's termination, and it concluded that Dorner's firing had been factually and legally proper, and that his termination was not only appropriate, it was the only course the department could have taken based on the facts and evidence, end quote. And they also found no basis for the allegations of racism that Dorner cited in his manifesto. So there's just like a blanket, you know, no fault.

• 48:50Karen Kilgariff?

  We didn't do anything.

• 48:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, we didn't do anything wrong.

• 48:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 48:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So take that. Take that with 2024 eyes.

• 48:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, yeah, it's been going on for a long time.

• 49:00Georgia Hardstark?

  In August of 2024, these thieves robbed a man at gunpoint in Beverly Hills, who they targeted for his expensive watch, and they were arrested. And it was discovered that they had a handgun that was once registered to Dorner in their possession. And as of right now, it's unclear how they got their hands on this gun. It's possible it was either stolen or sold by Dorner, but somewhere along the line, they acquired it.

• 49:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 49:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Just an interesting little update.

• 49:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 49:30Georgia Hardstark?

  As you've heard in that story, you know, we talk a lot about the police department. And I want to remind people that it was 2016 when this was recorded, and we had a very different view.

• 49:40Karen Kilgariff?

  We still are two white ladies

• 49:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  who have a very different experience with the police every single day

• 49:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 49:46Karen Kilgariff?

  than many people do.

• 49:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And there have been changes in recent years, but the LAPD continues to be one of the most corrupt forces in the US. According to policesscorecard.org, between 2013 and 2021, there have been 154 killings by police. Based on population, a black person was 4.4 times as likely and a Latinx person was 2.3 times as likely to be killed by police as a white person in Los Angeles.

• 50:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  And there have been almost 15,000 civilian complaints of police misconduct as well.

• 50:20Karen Kilgariff?

  I think I recommended this already, but a reporter named Cerise Castle did an amazing 15-part series about, it's called "The History of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department", and that was for the website KnockLA. There's been a lot of reporting and deep dives into the corruption and the kind of like, in-depth, I don't know how to explain it.

• 50:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Gang mentality.

• 50:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Gang mentality in what is supposed to be a public service that has a budget of like $2 billion here. So it's definitely the kind of thing that we didn't have to think about or worry about at that time. And it is, I think, a lot of white people since 2016, especially after 2020

• 51:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Karen Kilgariff?

  and Ferguson and all that stuff. You know, people's eyes have been really opened in a way that we got the, almost like, option to not have those eyes up

• 51:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 51:16Karen Kilgariff?

  for a long time.

• 51:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. All right, let's go to another horrible story. This one is just one that comes up in your head

• 51:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oof.

• 51:24Georgia Hardstark?

  all the time, you know? It's just, it sticks with you. This is Karen's telling of the story about the Cheshire murders.

• 51:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Just a warning, it's a horrific case and it involves sexual assault and violence against children. So listen with caution.

• 51:43Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 51:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 51:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 51:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone, and SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know, and if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 52:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 52:39Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm, and when you order, write in MFM at checkout, and it tells them we sent you, and it really helps the show.

• 52:47Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time. Goodbye.

• 52:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 52:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

• 52:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

• 52:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Bombas has your favorite footwear for fall, including new suede moccasins with cushy soles, shearling lining, and water-resistant suede, plus soft slippers, slides, and booties.

• 53:08Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a Bombas sock for pretty much any fall occasion, from warm merino wool blends to sweat-wicking sports socks and dressier options for weddings.

• 53:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity, with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties pretty much in every room, so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly, and they're so comfy, you can wear them around the house, I wear them to bed, and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 53:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to bombas.com/mfm and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 53:48Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com. Com slash MFM, code MFM at checkout. Goodbye.

• 53:56Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 54:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 54:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 54:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 54:19Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 54:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 54:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 54:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 54:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 54:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 54:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 54:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.

• 54:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 54:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 55:02Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S.O.L.A.C.E. health.com/murder.

• 55:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 55:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Mine happened in the same year.

• 55:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God.

• 55:13Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a lot of similarities, which is super weird.

• 55:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Interesting.

• 55:17Karen Kilgariff?

  And this is a murder story that I had two different, separate, non-people that don't know each other, friends of mine, ask if I had done the story yet.

• 55:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 55:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the Cheshire murder.

• 55:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 55:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And you've probably seen a 2020 or a Nightline about it. It was super famous. It happened around the same time as the Oklahoma bombings, but it was more talked about in the news more consistently because it was that really infamous Connecticut home invasion story that's a nightmare.

• 55:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Home invasion?

• 55:53Karen Kilgariff?

  From start to finish.

• 55:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a nightmare.

• 55:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a nightmare. And also, it's ju- this is just sinister and creepy because Cheshire, Connecticut. So there's a documentary on HBO called The Cheshire Murders. Highly recommend. I watched that this morning and it will tell you the entire story. But it's very hard because it's all the relatives. So it's just like everybody right there on camera talking about how it feels. And it's incredibly rough because this is, this is a, you know, this is a multiple rape murder situation on a family who live in one of those towns where when they show all the shots, it's like all the A-frame houses with the lawns.

• 56:39Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no fences between any of the yards. And the area these people lived in was pretty upscale. So basically what happened is on the night of July 22nd, at 7:30 at night, Jennifer Hawke-Pedditt went to the Stop & Shop with her 11-year-old daughter,

• 56:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Michaela. And they're, they're just shopping for groceries and they're spotted by a recent parolee named Joshua Komisaryevsky.

• 57:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Is basically how you pronounce his last name. They, they said it in the, in this documentary probably 30 times. Right. And every time I'd say it along with them or repeat it after I heard it. And I still, it's Komisaryevsky. Okay. Or Komisarjevsky, I'm not sure. So this guy's watching them in the grocery store.

• 57:33Karen Kilgariff?

  A very, I might as well just get to this part now. Very upsetting part in this documentary is this guy who is in his like mid to late twenties. I want to say 27, but I can't, I can't see it on my paper. But he had a girlfriend like in the years prior. And the father of that girl he, that this guy dated, talks on camera about how they said that they thought they wanted to get married. And the father said, I have two problems with that. You're a career criminal and you're a pedophile. And he's like, and my daughter looks and acts a lot younger than she is. And so this girl who is the same age as him is on camera and she completely, if you, if you said she's sixteen or fifteen,

• 58:17Karen Kilgariff?

  you'd be like, sure. And she was like in her mid twenties. Holy shit. So it's, um, there was some part that got confusing where it was like, he also tried to date her younger sister and it was a thing. So this guy, and of course it turns out that later in the documentary, uh, it turns out that he was molested as a child, very young, terribly, and for most of his life. So he had, he was adopted, this father that they show a couple of pictures of is one of the most disturbing looking individuals, like always right behind him, kind of creepy. Oh my, how did I not see this documentary? It's pretty good. I mean, the thing is by the time you get to the part where they're talking about what life was like for these two dudes that did this home invasion, you're like, oh, I don't care.

• 59:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I don't care. These are monsters. I don't care. Cause that happens to a lot of people, not a lot hopefully, but, and they don't become monsters. Exactly. The only thing though is it is interesting because when something like this happens over and over, people go, who could do this? Who, how do you do something like, I don't understand how could you do this? How could you do this? And most people just go from that question to kill them. Just kill them. Don't, why even give them a trial? It's that mentality, which we all, cause it's so hard to comprehend. It's just like this compounded abuse that's just generations long, probably because the guy who abused them was abused too. And I mean, it's bad. Alright.

• 59:42Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's interesting and, no, no, no, cause that's, that's the thing with pedophiles is that oftentimes that's where it's coming from. It's happened to them. Um, but it's just, it puts a very strange light on an already very upsetting case. So, uh, they go home from this grocery store, the mom and daughter go home. This guy follows them home and goes and sees where they live. Um, he had just, he was living in a halfway house or he'd just gotten out of a halfway house. And he was just paroled and so was his friend, Stephen Hayes, who is considerably older and also has a very long, both of them have crazy long criminal records. Both are, uh, like burglars or whatever. This guy, and when they talked about,

• 1:00:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Josh Komiseryewski. They actually say he had a photographic memory. He was incredibly intelligent. He was an incredibly talented artist. And they start showing these illustrations that he did. And they look somewhat, they reminded me immediately of the pictures in Silence of the Lambs. When Dr. Lecter has those hand drawn pictures of like Italy. You know, that like he's basically drawn his own pictures. So he from memory, it's the exact same thing where this guy has these illustrations that are like so insanely detailed and beautiful and amazing. So, and he had, you know, so he's a, he's a smart person, but very cunning and very sociopathic.

• 1:01:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And so was the other guy, Stephen Hayes, two of his brothers in this documentary, talking about him. How he was a monster from their childhood. It was like burning their hands on stoves, like nightmare, older brother shit that they had to live with. So of course, in the end of this, when these two guys get caught, they tell the exact opposite stories of it was this guy's idea. And so it's very interesting because one guy looks like something out of a movie of a bad guy. And the other guy looks like, like a young pot dealer that would live in San Diego. But the truth of it is they think that it's the young guy that was the mastermind behind it.

• 1:01:52Georgia Hardstark?

  The artist, the smarter guy?

• 1:01:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:01:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So anyway, those two meet up at a bar and they talk about their plan and how they're going to go rob this house. And at 3am, they go up to the house. And when they walk up, they see that Dr. William Pettit is sleeping on the screened in porch on the front. And so Josh goes and grabs a baseball bat from the front lawn that they passed on their way in, takes it and starts beating this guy in the head.

• 1:02:19Georgia Hardstark?

  How do you go to a house at three in the morning? Like you're just asking for. Go, you know, go in the middle of the day when no one's home. You want to find people there.

• 1:02:29Karen Kilgariff?

  No, they wanted, they wanted this, um, the Josh guy, part of his thing was, they said, when he would go in burglar houses, he would go in different rooms. He would, he would pick places like, it would be like a state trooper's house that he would be burgling. And he would, after he stole all the things he wanted to steal, he would stand and listen to people breathing.

• 1:02:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:02:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh. And then also the guy that was talking about him, I think it was probably one of his old defense lawyers, said that he could remember every single, every single thing he stole, where it was, where the like item, if he took a wallet out of a pair of pants, it was hanging on the back of the chair. Like he had a photographic memory.

• 1:03:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Weird.

• 1:03:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. So that part of the joy of it was the fact that he knew that family was home. At least they know that for, that was his pattern in the past.

• 1:03:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:03:17Karen Kilgariff?

  So they beat, uh, the father in the head, tie him up and put him down in the basement and tie his wrists and ankles to a pole in the basement. He's got, he's, his head is split down the front and then there's like three huge gashes in the back of his head.

• 1:03:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, honey.

• 1:03:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So he's down in the basement. They have him shut down there. Then they, they tie up the mother and both daughters in each of their respective rooms, tie them, uh, hands and feet to the bed, put pillowcases over their head and, and shut the doors of all those rooms. Then they ransack the whole house. And by the time they're done looking through everything, they're not happy with their haul. They didn't get enough. And they find a Bank of America bankbook and they see that the amount in the bank is like over 15 grand or it's a bunch. And so they're like, here's what we're gonna do. You, when it's 9 a.m. and that bank opens, you're going in there, you're taking out $15,000 and you're bringing it back here to us and then we will leave you alone.

• 1:04:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:04:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So, um, at 9 a.m., this woman goes into her bank, goes up to the teller, says, I'd like to withdraw $15,000. And as they're doing their business, she says, I'm doing this against my will. People broke into our house last night. The guy drove me here. He's in the parking lot outside right now. He has my family back at the house. Like his partner has the family back at the house. She actually was quoted, the teller said that she said, "They're mostly nice. I think they just need this money." And she's like, "But you need to tell the police because, you know, I was, I was told to come in here and not say anything. And so like,

• 1:05:02Karen Kilgariff?

  please handle this." And so the teller, there's a woman in this documentary who was in the bank when all this happened. And she said she saw the bank manager run from the teller's little depot into her office and shut the door and start making the phone call. So it happened like immediately. And then Jennifer Pettit got her money and left the bank. So she didn't wait around or anything because I surely she was probably on like a timelander.

• 1:05:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh shit.

• 1:05:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So Stephen Hayes is in the car waiting for her outside.

• 1:05:31Georgia Hardstark?

  The other guy's back at home.

• 1:05:32Karen Kilgariff?

  The other guy's back at home. So they, they find a video footage, gas station, video surveillance that Hayes had bought $10 worth of gas from two gas cans that he'd gotten from the Pettit home before they went to the bank. So they know it's premeditated murder. So when they get back-

• 1:05:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Does she know, oh my god, does she know they have gas? Extra gas?

• 1:05:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. No, because she's tied up in the room. So I think they're doing all that business themselves. So when, so this is where the story is split because Josh has one story and Stephen has the other. But Stephen's story is he gets back from the bank with Mrs. Pettit and he thinks they're going to take this money. He's picking him up and they're leaving. When he walks in, Josh says, "I, I have left DNA in one of the children. We have to burn this house down. We have to kill them and burn this house down."

• 1:06:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:06:24Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's when Stephen's like, "I was not in this," that in, according to him, he, he was like, "This is crazy." Then he looks outside and sees that from the moment that bank teller got on the phone with 911, like it was minutes later, they say like three to five minutes later. Cops were outside of this house. So they look outside. Steven sees that there's cops outside, which, you know, she had promised him he would not call the cops. And he goes crazy, starts strangling her, the mom.

• 1:06:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, I don't like this.

• 1:07:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's bad. He strangles her, rapes her after he strangles her.

• 1:07:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my.

• 1:07:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my fucking god.

• 1:07:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, it's like a week away. It's like a week away from 4th of July. 4th of July passed a week ago. My fucking neighbors are still. This has been happening all week. They've been letting off fucking fireworks. That was the worst time that could have happened.

• 1:07:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So loud.

• 1:07:27Georgia Hardstark?

  And I saw, fuck, I saw the spark.

• 1:07:29Karen Kilgariff?

  I did too. And there was like a big flash.

• 1:07:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Huh.

• 1:07:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:07:34Georgia Hardstark?

  My heart.

• 1:07:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to shut that since now there's? Um, wow.

• 1:07:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck's sake. We're trying. Fucking asshole.

• 1:07:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Talk about murder. Um.

• 1:07:45Georgia Hardstark?

  What the?

• 1:07:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, god, that's hilarious. So, okay.

• 1:07:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't wait to hear that.

• 1:07:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Um.

• 1:07:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I think so many people have their headphones in right now and got so freaked out when that happened.

• 1:07:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I wonder, yeah, because it was, that was crazy loud.

• 1:08:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And we both freaked, we all freaked out.

• 1:08:03Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what? That was like our podcast version of, you know, in a movie when suddenly a car gets side.

• 1:08:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Fucking T-bone.

• 1:08:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Or they close the, um, the, the medicine cabinet and there's someone standing there.

• 1:08:13Karen Kilgariff?

  We just, it was like we like put that into our own scary, scary podcast. It was scary enough as it was. Guys, don't be mad at us because we're as upset as you are.

• 1:08:22Georgia Hardstark?

  We are.

• 1:08:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It's not more. Now here come the cops. Did you hear, did you hear that? Um, okay, so. Okay, so Steven Hayes has just strangled and raped the mother. So turns out while they were at the bank. He, Josh, had gone upstairs and raped the 11-year-old.

• 1:08:48Georgia Hardstark?

  The one who he thought looked like his ex-girlfriend?

• 1:08:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, yes. But she was 11. There was a 17-year-old daughter.

• 1:08:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:56Karen Kilgariff?

  That no, nobody went into her room ever after. So it's super crazy and when you hear his confession on tape, it's super disgusting because he act, he is using so many euphemisms and kind of trying to talk like, "They chatted and they were talking about school and I brought her a glass of water." Like, it's all very sweet, borderline romantic in his mind. It's super gross.

• 1:09:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So then they pour gas over both girls.

• 1:09:27Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no.

• 1:09:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Still alive.

• 1:09:29Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:09:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And then throughout the entire house, light the house on fire, and then run out the front door, get into the Pettit's car, drive one block away, get pulled over and arrested. So the entire ti- now, in the, in the aftermath, when they made announcements, the mayor or the city, you know, councilman or whoever, were like, "And we'd like to thank the police and fire did a great job and all this stuff." Well, it turned out, from when they finally, because they had like, kind of redacted all of this information, they weren't, there was a gag order on the whole story, they, like, the press couldn't report on it, on any details, they didn't know any details about it. And then they finally get, like, the phone reports and the 911 calls and everything.

• 1:10:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And they had a perimeter, they were setting up a perimeter five minutes after the 911 call came in from the bank. And, uh, they were all just sitting outside in that perimeter. They had, no one had called on the phone, no one had knocked on the door, no one had even approached the house in any way. They heard Mrs. Pettit screaming and nobody went up. They, um, the house caught on fire and they still didn't do anything.

• 1:10:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:10:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So basically, in the amount of time between when they went to the bank and came back is when all of the major crimes happened. And the police were just sitting outside, not taking action, which, you know, it's, this is a town that was like 25,000 people. So again,

• 1:10:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Tiny.

• 1:11:00Karen Kilgariff?

  And there were some people that argued that this is a small town, but this is a small town in terms of police handling major crimes.

• 1:11:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:11:08Karen Kilgariff?

  So they had basically no idea what to do and just set up a perimeter and waited and didn't do anything. So that, like those, those,

• 1:11:18Georgia Hardstark?

  God damn it.

• 1:11:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Should I scream? That was, that sounded like an actual firework.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could, I just saw like Disneyland thing.

• 1:11:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, except this is fucking Los Feliz, not fucking Disneyland.

• 1:11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And fireworks are illegal in Nellie County?

• 1:11:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And in addition, it's been happening pretty much every night since 4th of July.

• 1:11:38Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's, isn't it like July 10th now?

• 1:11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like July 10th right now.

• 1:11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  It's six days later. Guys, anyway, uh, to wrap it up, when Dr. Pettit escaped the basement, he, it was basically right around the same time as the house was lit on fire. He was like, smelled the smoke and whatever. And so he, with his, I'm, I'm looking at fireworks over your shoulder.

• 1:12:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm moving, I'm fucking moving.

• 1:12:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so Dr. Pettit runs up the back stairs, his feet are still bound, he's like hopping with a bloody face across to his neighbors and there's like a little forest in between his house and the neighbor's house. And he sees the cops hiding behind trees and is screaming, help my family, save my family, as he's running over to the neighbor's house. And they're just keeping their positions.

• 1:12:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 1:12:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So all of that part, they like effectively swept that part under the rug. And the family kept asking questions and like, it was like, if there's a gag order, we can't tell you anything. And it wasn't until the case happened that they found out all this horrible shit of all the really hideous details of what happened. And then they also, um, Joshua's diary was, uh, uh, put into evidence. And, um, basically after they got arrested, They both turned on each other, said it was the other person's idea. Um, and it's really hard to to pull apart because even in this documentary, like you can see how Josh could be the mastermind,

• 1:13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  but you could also see how Stephen Hayes could ju- I mean, this idea, like when his lawyer was trying to tell that story of like, oh, he saw the cops and that he felt very betrayed and that's why he strangled and raped Mrs. Pettit. It's like, yeah, I don't think so.

• 1:13:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No, people don't strangle and rape people when they feel betrayed as a whole.

• 1:13:30Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, they say it's like explosive anger reaction or whatever, but it's like, I don't know. I I feel like they probably were planning on doing that anyway.

• 1:13:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, so anyway, they're convicted of the murders and they're sentenced to death uh in 2010. Um, uh, well, that was Stephen, Stephen Hayes was convicted in 2020, 2010. Um, Joshua Komisaryevsky uh was convicted in 2011 and sentenced to death in 2012. And in August 2015, the state of Connecticut abolished the death penalty. So now Hayes and uh Komisaryevsky are, had both of their death sentences commuted and now they're serving life sentences.

• 1:14:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Who, what do you think? Who do you think was the mastermind?

• 1:14:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Um.

• 1:14:22Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, it seems to me that it's the younger guy. It seems to me that it's the the Joshua Komisaryevsky guy.

• 1:14:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Because he's the one who raped the 11 year old.

• 1:14:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. He's the one that had this kind of plan.

• 1:14:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think he's the one that like the other guy was a burglar and kind of on drugs and stuff. I think that guy was a career criminal in the, in that way, but I think Joshua had some really, really deep, serious emotional problems.

• 1:14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, when you think of like, hey, when you think of someone saying, hey, I found this house that's perfect for us to break into. Like, one of them knows who's in that house and what's going on.

• 1:15:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:15:00Georgia Hardstark?

  The other one might not. And so it seems that he had an ulterior motive for sure. And the other guy didn't at first.

• 1:15:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. He just wanted to make some easy money or like just thought it was like they're, they're out of jail. They're out of a halfway house. They need jobs. You can't get a job as an ex-con very easily.

• 1:15:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, they're just trying to get back to it. And also that guy Joshua was kicked out of the army, which is always a bad sign.

• 1:15:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:15:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, they don't, they didn't go into any of the details of that though. Anyway, the Cheshire Murders, uh, it's an old HBO documentary. So I found it on HBO now or go or something on my Apple TV. But it's really interesting and really it just fucked with everyone. It's the, considered the worst crime in Connecticut history.

• 1:15:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Those poor little girls.

• 1:15:49Karen Kilgariff?

  And it fucked with everybody because it was home invasion. So it was just like your utopian life can be invaded by two criminals who are, you know.

• 1:15:59Georgia Hardstark?

  It's almost like there's, on one hand, you have like burglary. You have, you're not home. Someone comes in and steals your shit. But someone who's bold enough to do a home invasion robbery, that scares the shit out of me. The person who would be willing to do that.

• 1:16:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:16:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Is, has no, has no, what?

• 1:16:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, part of the enjoyment, at least they know for a fact that Joshua had was the fear that he liked the fear he put into people.

• 1:16:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:16:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, because, and that he actually wrote a bunch of stuff about it in his diary that was on this thing that was just basically like that's, he feels that scared and, and freaked out and wants to scream inside all the time. And so it makes him feel better to, to see people tortured like that.

• 1:16:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. When you're the one whose people are fear, then you're not.

• 1:16:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 1:16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's deep. It's dark. And yeah.

• 1:16:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm staying home from now on for the rest of my life, but then what if there's a home invasion robbery?

• 1:16:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, and also that's where all the fireworks are. So.

• 1:16:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Home is where the fireworks are.

• 1:16:58Karen Kilgariff?

  You know?

• 1:16:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, man.

• 1:17:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis is hiding under the bed right now, so we can't end the show until he comes out.

• 1:17:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Um, my friend Sean, who asked me if I was going to do this, uh, the one that's from Cheshire, Connecticut.

• 1:17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:12Karen Kilgariff?

  So when he watches documentary, he kept talking about how freaked out he was because it was his, he goes, that's my bank. I've been to that bank so many times.

• 1:17:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:17:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Like this was his hometown murder. And he was just like, he said, watching this documentary was just like, that's his town.

• 1:17:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh, that's scary.

• 1:17:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis doesn't want a cookie.

• 1:17:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet he does.

• 1:17:37Georgia Hardstark?

  There we are. All right. You guys, go to Instagram, MyFavoriteMurder, Twitter is MyFaveMurder. We have our Facebook group, of course. Thank you guys for listening. We really love this podcast and we appreciate that you guys listen. It's super awesome times.

• 1:17:52Karen Kilgariff?

  And you know what? Stay sexy.

• 1:17:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered, Elvis. Want a cookie?

• 1:17:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Want a cookie?

• 1:18:02Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Thanks, guys.

• 1:18:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Bye.

• 1:18:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Bye.

• 1:18:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're back. Another story about police not having enough training.

• 1:18:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's, everything about the story is a disaster. And so horrible.

• 1:18:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Heartbreaking, awful.

• 1:18:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And then meanwhile, fireworks go off as I'm trying to tell it. And that truly, I can remember when that happened. Like, I remember looking at you when it happened. It was one of the scariest things. Like, we had, we had just had

• 1:18:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Karen Kilgariff?

  That whole, the Christopher Dorner story. I'm in the middle of telling this horrifying thing and then it sounds like someone's shooting at your window.

• 1:18:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And I have to explain that my apartment, there was a little driveway next to it. Like, a 1930s apartment building driveway in LA, which is like impossible to drive through. It was a tiny little, and then next to it was a little walkway and then the other apartment. Like, we could just see right into each other's, like, it was so, and that's where they were setting off the fireworks. It was so close. They were always doing that. They were always grilling things and the fu, in the fucking little driveway and the fire would be, I mean.

• 1:19:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So crazy.

• 1:19:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it was, it was a different time in our lives.

• 1:19:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, no respect for a studio-less, a true crime podcast that's being recorded upstairs.

• 1:19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Although, one time the guy did bring me some of the meat that they had been grilling, which is really nice.

• 1:19:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Was it good?

• 1:19:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Okay, so I have a couple of updates to

• 1:19:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  this story. Well, one is just kind of random, which is one of the perpetrators of this crime, who in this story is identified as Stephen Hayes, has transitioned since there's really can't find a good source confirming what their name is now. This is kind of actually a really lovely kind of silver lining, which is that in the memory of his wife and daughters, William Pettit created the Pettit Family Foundation. And since he established it, they have raised over $10 million for STEM, chronic illness, and violence prevention.

• 1:19:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing.

• 1:19:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So if you want to find out more about the Pettit, P-E-T-I-T, Family Foundation, you can go to PettitFamilyFoundation.org and maybe even donate.

• 1:20:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. That episode was a lot.

• 1:20:09Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, little did we know back in January of 2016 exactly what we were signing up for in pretty much every way, shape, and form.

• 1:20:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, man. Yeah.

• 1:20:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really kind of crazy to listen to and kind of think about these early episodes again. Just like, wow.

• 1:20:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Everything's changed and nothing's changed.

• 1:20:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:30Georgia Hardstark?

  But everything's changed.

• 1:20:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So different.

• 1:20:32Georgia Hardstark?

  So, but there's so many things that are the same.

• 1:20:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. Now, we're, in some ways, we're kind of stuck in a weird time loop.

• 1:20:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So we better get it right this time.

• 1:20:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's try. Let's just try. All right. So we, I mean, I don't think we can get any better than 20 knives.

• 1:20:49Karen Kilgariff?

  20 knives was so genius.

• 1:20:51Georgia Hardstark?

  It was brilliant. But based on what we name the episodes these days, which is, you know, a call back to something silly that was said in the episode, what would we name it now?

• 1:21:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Look somewhere else, bro, which was you basically saying, if you're getting your facts from here, look somewhere else, bro.

• 1:21:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean.

• 1:21:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is very accurate.

• 1:21:10Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's great that we've always known that and stood by that.

• 1:21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And that our audience loves to remind people who try to come in and be like, hey, guess what?

• 1:21:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:18Karen Kilgariff?

  We know that and they know that.

• 1:21:19Georgia Hardstark?

  This isn't the place. This isn't even Wikipedia.

• 1:21:21Karen Kilgariff?

  We're beginners.

• 1:21:22Georgia Hardstark?

  We could name it Tubes Tubing, about inner tubes.

• 1:21:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Or Home is Where the Fireworks Are. In a scary storytelling show, then a scary audio experience, which is just like, I don't know if I've ever been that scared in that moment.

• 1:21:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I know. But I kind of love it. It's just like, that's where we started.

• 1:21:39Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:21:40Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 1:21:41Karen Kilgariff?

  It was real because it was hot. The window was open because it was hot.

• 1:21:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And there, you know, it was an apartment. There's nothing you can do about it. That's where we started.

• 1:21:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:48Georgia Hardstark?

  That's where I lived. I loved it.

• 1:21:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:51Georgia Hardstark?

  And sometimes fucking fireworks went off next to your door.

• 1:21:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It'd be really cool if right now Alejandro opened the door and just threw two fireworks at us. I'd be like, boom.

• 1:21:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Boom.

• 1:22:00Karen Kilgariff?

  It's still the same.

• 1:22:01Georgia Hardstark?

  All right. Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Rewind.

• 1:22:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels like people are loving Rewind, so we're very happy to be doing this for you.

• 1:22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  If you could rate, review, and subscribe on wherever you listen to podcasts, that would be really helpful and awesome. We appreciate that.

• 1:22:15Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what also would be really helpful and awesome? If you would stay sexy.

• 1:22:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:22:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:22:30Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:22:38Karen Kilgariff?

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• 1:23:23Karen Kilgariff?

  doctor about Extenture. Learn more at extenture.com or call 1-833-393-3678. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:24:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:24:12Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet-and-greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:24:29Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:24:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 1:24:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.