307. Dr. Josh Axe, Dr. Will Cole & Taylor Dukes: Toxoplasma Gondii Is Linked to Brain Tumors

You can eat clean, do everything right, and still miss a brain tumor growing for years. Taylor Dukes found hers on a routine full-body scan, then shrank it in half before surgery using metabolic ketosis, methylene blue, and red light. Gary sits down with Taylor, Dr. Will Cole, and Dr. Josh Axe to break down what standard labs miss: hidden parasites, mold toxicity, and stealth infections quietly overloading the immune system. CLICK HERE TO BECOME GARY’S VIP!: https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg Connect with Taylor Dukes: Website: https://bit.ly/4byxTS5 Instagram: https://bit.ly/3Rii1cS Connect with Dr. Will Cole: Website:https://bit.ly/4iurxF0 Instagram:https://bit.ly/3GlSihK Connect with Dr. Josh Axe: Website: https://bit.ly/4mEUwIc Instagram: https://bit.ly/42ULi3s Thank you to our partners A-GAME: “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: http://bit.ly/4kek1ij AION: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD AIRES: “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: https://bit.ly/4a3Duze BAJA GOLD: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa BODYHEALTH: “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV COLD LIFE: THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: https://bit.ly/4eULUKp CYMBIOTIKA: “BRECKACYM30” FOR 30% OFF: https://bit.ly/4tjyluP GENETIC METHYLATION TEST (UK ONLY): https://bit.ly/48QJJrk GENETIC TEST (USA ONLY): https://bit.ly/3Yg1Uk9 GOPUFF: GET YOUR FAVORITE SNACK!: https://bit.ly/4obIFDC H2TABS: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg HEALF: 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: https://bit.ly/41HJg6S PEPTUAL: “TUH10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4mKxgcn SNOOZE: LET’S GET TO SLEEP!: https://bit.ly/4pt1T6V WHOOP: JOIN & GET 1 FREE MONTH!: https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW Watch the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8 Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3RQftU0 Connect with Gary Brecka Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs TikTok: https://bit.ly/4coJ8fo X: https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf Facebook: https://bit.ly/464VA1H LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2 Website: https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU Merch: https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1 Newsletter: https://bit.ly/47ejrws Ask Gary: https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG Timestamps 00:00 - Intro of Show 01:14 - Full-body scan finds a brain tumor 04:35 - Ketosis, methylene blue, and red light 07:06 - Toxoplasma gondii parasite found in blood 07:41 - Tumor shrinks in half before surgery 09:22 - Recovery with no chemo or radiation 11:32 - Symptoms conventional labs miss 12:30 - HLA genes and biotoxin sensitivity 14:55 - Glyphosate and microplastics in your body 15:24 - Mold exposure and Epstein-Barr reactivation 19:15 - Gut healing, sauna, and binders 22:05 - Why you strengthen before you kill 26:36 - Black walnut and wormwood for parasites 28:06 - Family Lyme disease and long COVID 30:08 - Herbs and therapy for fighting Lyme 31:05 - Recap: three paths to the same truth Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not provide medical advice. It is not intended for diagnosing or treating any health condition. Always consult a licensed healthcare professional before making health or wellness decisions. Gary Brecka is the owner of Ultimate Human, LLC which operates The Ultimate Human podcast and promotes certain third-party products used by Gary Brecka in his personal health and wellness protocols and daily life and for which Ultimate Human LLC and / or Gary Brecka directly or indirectly holds an economic interest or receives compensation. Accordingly, statements made by Gary Brecka and others (including on The Ultimate Human podcast) may be considered promotional in nature. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Gary Brecka?

  Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka. Do you know that one in five Americans will develop cancer? The vast majority of autoimmune disease has no known cause, and millions of people with brain fog, joint pain, crushing fatigue, and mystery symptoms are told every year that their labs are just fine. They're not fine. What's happening to them is invisible to conventional labs. Mold toxins in the tissue, parasites suppressing the immune system, stealth infections that retreat and hide until the immune system is just too exhausted to keep them contained, and an immune system so overloaded that the circulating tumor cells it would normally catch every single day are slipping through. Today, I have three people who found what was hiding. A functional medicine nurse practitioner

• 0:42Gary Brecka?

  who shrunk a plum-sized brain tumor in half before surgery using metabolic ketosis, methylene blue, and red light therapy. A functional medicine physician who has spent 15 years treating the patients conventional medicine just couldn't explain, and knows exactly how to find what the standard labs miss. And one of the most respected holistic physicians in the entire world will lay out the complete protocol for tackling stealth infections, Lyme disease, and parasites that are quietly destroying the immune function while your blood work looks perfect. So let's get into it.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, so life was good. I've met the man of my dreams. He was an Air Force pilot. We have two children. I have a thriving functional medicine practice of my own at this point. I founded a wellness center with a partner. And I don't know if you're familiar with the Pernuvo Full Body MRI Company.

• 1:28Gary Brecka?

  Very familiar.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I always-

• 1:29Gary Brecka?

  I'm trying to actually bring them to the Middle East right now.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:33Gary Brecka?

  Because I'm a huge fan.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. So they reached out and they said, hey, you know, we're getting a location in Texas near you, and we would love to give you a full body preventative scan. And I'm like, all right, cool. I'm healthy, you know?

• 1:44Gary Brecka?

  This is 2020?

• 1:45Speaker 01

  This is 2022.

• 1:46Gary Brecka?

  2022.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so wow, two and a half years ago.

• 1:49Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so not too long ago. And I got the curve ball of my life. And so I did the scan, you know, took the picture, put on the scrubs, and I was called and told that they found a massive brain tumor in my right frontal lobe. And I'm like, what? You've got to be kidding. This is the wrong person, because I have no symptoms. So it was a shock, to say the least, but I did, in fact, have a huge brain tumor.

• 2:11Gary Brecka?

  Wow. You said it was the size of a plum.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  It was the size of a plum.

• 2:15Gary Brecka?

  How did it displace that much gray matter and you were having no symptoms?

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Truly, I can't even explain it, because from a medical perspective, I mean, the brain is so symptoms, like one millimeter shift, you can have symptoms in your brain. So literally, it's a god thing. I don't have no explanation, because it's truly beyond my comprehension.

• 2:32Gary Brecka?

  Did you see this image yourself? I mean, did your heart just drop?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  It did. I'll never forget, we were headed to the museum with my children. And I remember opening the app, and I actually didn't get a phone call. I actually have to back it up. I opened up the app, because I'm the practitioner. I'm the one who saw it first. No one had told me. So it said abnormal finding. And I look, and it said nervous system. And I'm like, that's weird. So I went to go look at it. And it was a huge picture. And it does not take a radiologist or a trained medical professional. I'll show you after.

• 3:00Gary Brecka?

  Okay.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  I mean, it is huge. It's this huge white mass. So when I first got diagnosed, you know, I had a 10-month-old at the time, and a three-year-old. And so it was scary as all get out, you know? And as much as I know about integrative and functional medicine at this point, I know nothing about cancer. And now I feel like I have my PhD.

• 3:15Gary Brecka?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Just for experience.

• 3:17Gary Brecka?

  Just because of all the people I've worked with.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Yes. And it's only increasing. That's the hard thing. And so I slowed down, and I prayed, and I said, okay, God, like, this isn't a surprise to you. You know this. You know the number of my days. But like, what do I do? And I didn't freak out. I didn't make decisions in fear. I wasn't reactive. And I knew that I probably needed to get it out. But I was also like, okay, this has been growing for years. Same thing with functional medicine. Symptoms, a disease doesn't just happen overnight. It's drops in the bucket over time that lead to the full-blown manifestation of a disease and symptoms. And so I knew enough about the body that I wasn't just gonna like, jump to surgery in fear. And I just felt led to take an integrative approach. And so I started doing research, and reading books, and contacting integrative

• 4:01Speaker 01

  cancer clinics. And, you know, it was also hard. We had to execute a living will. I had to make a lot of decisions as a mom, and a wife, and a business owner. Like, I had to get my husband access to all my business stuff, because I'm like, what if something happens?

• 4:13Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  So there was the life part of me that was trying to figure things out. And I also am so blessed, because most people that have a brain tumor, they have a seizure, they wake up in the emergency room, they get the next call, on-call neurosurgeon. You don't have time to research, pray. I mean, it's like, you don't pack bags, you don't send an out-office email. It's go time. And so for me, I'm like, okay, God, thank you for giving me this information. I just want to, like, walk this journey well.

• 4:35Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  So I ended up going to Hope for Cancer. It's a holistic cancer center in Mexico. I went to the Cancer Center for Healing in California, in Irvine. And I did everything from hyperbaric oxygen, red light beds, methylene blue, curcumin IVs, high dose of vitamin C. I mean, you name it, I've done it. And so I spent five months prior to surgery. I did end up getting brain surgery, doing research, getting second opinion. And I was like, I knew a lot about nutrition. And that's the hard thing for me. I was already really healthy. So to feel like I had to take it up a notch, was like, whoa.

• 5:07Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  What does this look like? But I treated healing like a job for a period of time, especially during those five months before brain surgery. And I was like, you know what? It'd be so cool if we could shrink this brain tumor. But if anything, I'm just preparing my body to be strong going into a brain surgery.

• 5:19Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  And so for me, I did high dose vitamin C. I had to work my way up to like, 75 grams.

• 5:26Gary Brecka?

  Grams, yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:26Gary Brecka?

  You started like, 25 grams?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yep. And then worked our way up. I did methylene blue infusions. I did methylene blue before doing a red light helmet, like 30 minutes before I activated.

• 5:35Gary Brecka?

  Oral?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did oral. So I do like, my methylene blue drops. 30 minutes later, I'd put on my red light helmet.

• 5:40Gary Brecka?

  Great.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  I did molecular-

• 5:42Gary Brecka?

  Was that a neuronic helmet?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  It's Weber.

• 5:45Gary Brecka?

  Weber?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Weber. It's from Germany.

• 5:47Gary Brecka?

  Okay, great.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  So I did that. So you and I were offline, talking about therapy stacking, because you got to, to be efficient. You know, you can't just all day do everything. So I would sit at my desk, I'd check emails, I'd do my methylene blue, I'd put on my red light helmet, I'd do my molecular hydrogen oxygen, I have a hyperbaric chamber, you know, sauna.

• 6:03Gary Brecka?

  Like a soft chamber?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I do. I have a soft chamber. I've gotten so claustrophobic, though, so I haven't used it as much. But I had to use it.

• 6:10Gary Brecka?

  You get one of mine, yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Seriously, I sat in there earlier, and I could do that.

• 6:13Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  But yeah, I did everything that you can imagine. Got into ketosis. I was checking not just ketones, but GKI, glucose ketone index, pricking my finger. I mean, it was, I did everything. I was taking so many supplements.

• 6:26Gary Brecka?

  CGMs, right?

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I did CGMs, yeah. And for me, you know, I was living abroad, so it made a lot of sense. And another thing, and I will say, drops in the bucket, it was the perfect storm for me. You know, the parasites was a huge contributing factor. I tested positive for parasites in stool. I actually, this is crazy. And for anyone listening that think parasites are woo-woo, and they're like, yeah, but we don't live in a third world country.

• 6:45Gary Brecka?

  Absolutely not.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  No, no. We do worm our pets. Like, you can have exposure. And so one thing that I have to say specifically about parasites is, so when I got diagnosed, I did all the lab testing you can ever imagine, on myself, you know, because I had practitioners, but I'm like, I'm gonna cast the net. What are we missing here? And I actually found, I was blood positive, serum positive, for a parasite called Toxoplasma gondii, that the International Journal of Cancer and the American Cancer Society link to brain tumors in middle-aged people.

• 7:12Gary Brecka?

  No way.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yes. And so-

• 7:14Gary Brecka?

  Is this because of the outgassing of these?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  You know, it suppresses the immune system. So parasites, if we want to talk parasites, they suppress the immune system. And so again, with cancer, we want to do anything to boost our immune system, and decrease inflammation, boost immunity. And so parasites suppress the immune system, because they're a foreign invader. And, you know, and so for me, I did ivermectin, I did all sorts of mebendazole, fobendazole. I even did alinia. I did all sorts of, I actually did pharmaceuticals. I think there are times and places for it.

• 7:41Gary Brecka?

  Were you doing anything to, I mean, obviously, you're conscious of your diet. And before your surgery, did the tumor actually shrink?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  It did. Yes. It was a miracle.

• 7:49Gary Brecka?

  That's so amazing.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  In half, which is insane.

• 7:52Gary Brecka?

  In half?

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Yes. Because when I got the radiology reports, I'm like-

• 7:54Gary Brecka?

  That is incre- I mean, first of all, you're like, neurologist, like, what in the-

• 7:59Speaker 01

  So I actually have the coolest neurosurgeon. He's actually in, I flew to Arizona for my brain surgery. He's at Barrow's neurological, Chris Smith, if anyone needs a recommendation. And he believes in ketosis.

• 8:07Gary Brecka?

  In Scottsdale?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 8:08Gary Brecka?

  I was literally just there.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he operates in Scottsdale and in Phoenix. And we stayed in Scottsdale for me to recover. But he believes in metabolic ketosis. You know, he doesn't have the time to talk about all these things that stress the immune system, because he's saving lives and doing brain surgery. But yeah, I mean, he's all in. And he's like, he's the one that told me, I don't want you doing, because mine was stage three. So it was, stage four is the most aggressive. So it wasn't like this, you know, little tiny growing thing. It was a beast that we needed to get out of there. So I'm grateful. And that's what I also want people to hear me say. I think it's easy to hear all the stuff that we talk about, and think that it's all holistic. And I always say- I like saying integrative because you take the best of the conventional, the best of the holistic and you integrate the two for the best possible outcome.

• 8:47Gary Brecka?

  Yeah, I agree. I mean, just changing your diet alone is not going to save your life.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Right. And there are times and places for acute care, you know, let's get someone out of the acute flare of ulcerative colitis and you sometimes have to get the steroids and get the iron infusion, but then you have to figure out what caused the inflammation and caused the immune system to go rogue, not just with cancer, with anything autoimmune disease. And so, um, everyone was shocked and it was truly a miracle. But I'm so glad I still did surgery to get the remainder out. And so I have a huge hole in my brain. I'm still normal. You wouldn't know, right?

• 9:15Gary Brecka?

  Didn't even like when I first saw you, I'm like, dude, this chick's got a holder brain for sure. No, just no, no, not at all.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Well, and even people that knew me, you know, they're like, you're still the same Taylor even 24 hours. I mean, the whole thing is a miracle. And I didn't have any deficits and I was walking six hours after brain surgery. I was like giving him orders. I'm like, get this catheter out. I'm ready to get up and get ambulating.

• 9:36Gary Brecka?

  You are. Wow.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  And then I was, I went home straight from ICU 24 hours after surgery. And so I really think everything I did to prepare my body.

• 9:44Gary Brecka?

  Through the temporal side?

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Right here. I have a huge, a huge scar right here.

• 9:47Gary Brecka?

  Well, yeah. So nobody sees it.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so he's the one that said, you know, traditional oncology, and that's something else, you know, when people are like, oh my gosh, but you did integrative stuff with cancer. Isn't cancer scary? And for me, I'm like, well, no, because traditional only offers chemo surgery and radiation. And the integrative side offers all these other therapies and diet. And as a mom that wants to see her kids live a long life, like, why wouldn't I do anything and everything? And so for me, I didn't just do what traditional offered me. I did all the other things too. But instead of doing chemo and radiation, that's where I'm still doing things to prevent recurrence. And my neurosurgeon said, like, I want you to get into ketosis. I want you to keep focusing on everything you're doing with your immune system.

• 10:26Gary Brecka?

  So no chemo, no radiation. And now post-surgery images are good.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Gary Brecka?

  Taylor's story raises questions that I think about constantly. She's a functional medicine practitioner. She was already eating clean. She was already doing all the things and she still had a plum sized brain tumor growing right in her frontal lobe for years without a single symptom. How does that happen? What was building in the background that her immune system couldn't keep up with? The parasite she tested positive for, the toxic load she had been carrying since her time abroad. It drops in the bucket because that's how disease works. It's not overnight, not a single catastrophic event. Drops in a bucket, slowly accumulating until the immune system cannot hold everything at bay simultaneously and something slips through. Dr. Will Cole has spent 15 years treating the patients who are exactly where Taylor was

• 11:14Gary Brecka?

  in those early years before the diagnosis. People with brain fog, joint pain, crushing fatigue, mystery inflammatory markers that conventional labs do not catch. People who have been to every specialist and been told their labs are just fine. He knows what to look for and he's going to tell you exactly how to find it.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  This phenomenon that you're explaining is something that I see on a daily basis. People that have things like brain fog, fatigue, digestive problems, anxiety, food sensitivities. Yeah. Yeah. Joint pain. What the world may call mystery illnesses, they're falling through the cracks. They'll be told from conventional doctors, well, it looks autoimmune, but they're not like checking all the boxes. There's somewhere on that autoimmune inflammation spectrum. And exactly what you were saying, where it's like, yeah, metabolic labs are pretty much okay. C-reactive protein, high sensitivity C-reactive protein looks normal. Homocysteine is sometimes suboptimal, but nothing crazy. These inflammation markers.

• 12:13Gary Brecka?

  That's what I mean.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Conventional inflammation. But you're right. When you look at things like TGF beta 1, C3A, C4A, MSH, these sort of other immunological labs that are conventional labs, but aren't typically ran in the conventional setting. You will typically find for that subset of people, those labs will be off. And then when you start looking at biotoxins,

• 12:34Gary Brecka?

  Yes.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  it confirms those conventional labs in my mind.

• 12:37Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  It confirms things like mold and bacteria and viruses. And why, and almost a hundred percent, I don't know if you found this, but almost a hundred percent of these people that fit the, check all these boxes, what the world would call mystery illnesses, have these HLA gene variants.

• 12:52Gary Brecka?

  Yes.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Like they're all, which for people that don't know, that's human leukocyte antigens. It makes your body more sensitive, if you will, to these biotoxins like bacteria, viruses and mold. So whereas, you know, mold is everywhere.

• 13:06Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Bacteria and viruses, humans have been with symbiotically for a long time. But these people, their immune system doesn't know how to calm down when they're exposed to these pathogens.

• 13:17Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  And, and then we could talk, I think, in my mind, there's a environmental toxin component to it. When you talk about glyphosate or forever chemicals, I think there's something man-made that is exacerbating these biotoxin sensitivity. Normally it's leaky gut syndrome. Normally when you look, and I would say most of the research is being done, is there's some sort of breach of the intestinal lining. So undigested food proteins and bacterial endotoxins called lipopolysaccharides. These bacterial toxins and gram negative bacteria are passing through the gut lining because there's these proteins that govern gut lining permeability called a cludin and zonulin.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  Think of the Z in zonulin, this protein that protects the gut lining, the tight junctions of the gut as a zipper. So if there's increased zonulin antibody activity, increased zonulin activity, you're going to have things breached getting from the gut into the bloodstream. And that is at least part of it that researchers have looked at for the past 15 or 20 years or so, uh, as this event of what's happening as to why this molecular mimicry is happening. Because the immune system sees undigested food proteins, sees bacterial toxins and says, what the heck? It's not actually saying what the heck, but I'm saying, I'm speaking for your immune system right now. And it, it is tagging the undigested food proteins with that flag for destruction, the antibody.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  And then cross reacts because it's similar enough in structure. The thyroid is similar enough in structure that it's attacking the thyroid. But then it could be the joints, the gut, the brain and for anything. So we have to look at what's destroying that gut lining.

• 14:55Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  And these environmental toxins like glyphosate. Oh, yeah. You talk about herbicides and pesticides, what it's doing to decimate this gut garden.

• 15:02Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  The gut microbiome, big part, microplastics. When they're finding it 90% of human tissue.

• 15:08Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  And Mike, there's not a healthy amount of microplastics in the human body.

• 15:12Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  And we should not be like microdosing microplastics, but we are doing more than microdosing these plastics.

• 15:18Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. I heard on average, um, was it Dr. Gundry that I saw on a podcast? I heard on average, you know, about a credit card a week.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. So remember mold, the, the context around this is mold is everywhere, right? So we're joking about Miami. It really can be any state. I have patients in very dry, arid place. And it's not, you know, in Arizona, for example, it's not the desert that's necessarily moldy, but it's, they're piping, they're plumbing within their home. It's leaking behind the walls. So the more humid a climate is, the more obviously it's going to be, you know, conducive to growing more. But don't count yourself out if you live in a dry, arid place and they go, I don't live in Florida, I'm fine. Really, it really can be anywhere. It's just more likely to be in more humid areas. So how? And, and the other context is not all mold is toxic. So we have to understand what type of mold are we talking about?

• 16:07Speaker 02

  How much and how long have you been exposed to the mold? And then what's your bio individual tolerance to that mold? That genetic, epigenetic puzzle, right? So all these variables matter because I think one accusation that we can get in functional medicine is like fear mongering around something like mold, but it's, people lose the context and the nuance. Like you, when I do a social media post, it's not a two hour consultation. So forgive me if I give you statistics about mold. And realizing, yeah, I don't want everybody to be freaking out, but the reality is it is a piece of the puzzle. And when you talk to people for a living, it's something that's missed very often. So I wouldn't even want to show.

• 16:45Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. I just want to bring the awareness out there. Like.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. So to answer your question pointedly, just, it's a blood, a blood test or a year and or a urine test. And I would say both are important because I want to look at the immune system's response to the pathogen, whether it's a mold bacteria or virus. And I want to look at if you can measure it and a lot of these things you can actually quantify the mycotoxins in the body. So looking at the blood, the immunological and the toxic burden of mold. And then these other man-made toxins that can be exacerbating it. And a lot of these like Epstein Barr virus and other things that can be reactivated are because of these other toxins. Cause like, it's the statistic is like somewhere like 90 some percent of people have Epstein Barr virus antibodies.

• 17:28Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  90% of people don't have reactivated EBV. So just because you have antibodies, doesn't mean it's a reactivated.

• 17:34Gary Brecka?

  Yeah. Yeah. There's IGM and IGG too. So you can see the difference between dormancy and.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  But I see a lot of people, they'll see like antibodies and then they'll automatically think it's a reactivated. Not necessarily, but it can be. And mold and man-made toxins can be something that's perpetuating these viral reactivations. So that's where you would start. And then I would look at the genetic component because you almost always, it's going to be this big aha moment of like, oh, that's why I don't, I'm sensitive to mold, but my spouse isn't. Because there's a lot of like marital relationship gaslighting going on where it's like, they think they're a hypochondriac, like the husband, not to generalize, but the husband typically is like, yeah, she's hypochondriac. She's just making it up. But you measure, you run his genetics. He doesn't have the same methylation in HLA gene variants.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  So you could be in the home and she's reacting very like hypervigilant. Her immune system is very sensitive to it. But he's not, it's not healthy for the family. Our telehealth patients are typically that canary in the coal mine for our family. Because these things are carcinogenic.

• 18:38Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  It's not healthy for anybody. So maybe the guy, it's just going to be this slow burner for decades.

• 18:43Gary Brecka?

  Right.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  And it's going to be fueling cancer over 15 years, but she's having problems right now and she's going to save his life by getting that mold remediated.

• 18:51Gary Brecka?

  So good.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  So, I mean, look, you, yeah, I mean, what we do, if they have access to these bio hacks and tech, tech devices and therapies, yes, let's give it to them. But it starts with some basic stuff, right? It starts with, let's clean up the gut. Let's lower inflammation levels in the body. Let's see how resilient you can be. By just allowing your body to do what it was created for.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  Ah, my gosh, amen.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  So it's like you, most people, yeah, like let's, if we need to jump to hyperbaric, we will do that when we need to. But most Americans are not there. Like, let's just see how much of a needle moving capacity with the free and low cost and accessible stuff.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  I totally agree with that.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  And then from there, then we have in such, we live in such a blessed time where we do have access to technology that our grandparents, great grandparents, all the generations before us never had access to. So, but yeah, so I would start with really, if we're saying seventy, seventy-five, some percent of the immune systems in the gut, really focusing on gut health. So we do a lot of souping and stewing, like things that are really gentle, calming to the gut, instead of lots of raw foods, being on very like a proverbial siesta for the gut. This little break, this reprieve, this Sabbath, where you can allow, it's when you're brothing and souping, like just think having hearty soups for meals.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  And they could be bone broth based with lots of good meats in them and pureed vegetables or some soft cooked vegetables. And then when they have fruit, I even cook the fruit down, have people cook the fruit down as sort of a compote, like an inside of a pie, because these people, their immune system is stressed. It's digesting even healthy foods is stressing and already stressed out. Gut immune access. I'm talking about if you're, you have to meet your gut where it's at. And a lot of people are there because we've really messed up microbiomes in our culture today. But you know, carnivore, carnivore adjacent gaps, there's a lot of different therapeutic food protocols that could be helpful to,

• 20:53Speaker 02

  from a clinical nutrition intervention standpoint, to calm inflammation, to untangle these inflammatory cascades. As far as like supplementation is concerned, like glutathione or some glutathione precursor, like N-acetylcysteine, a great binder is going to be needed, like some charcoal, activated charcoal, zeolite, exactly, zeolite, dietimaceous earth,

• 21:17Speaker 02

  modified citrus pectin, we're seeing some great success.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  And where do you fall on like sauna and?

• 21:21Speaker 02

  I, they, we, it's a, I don't want to say non-negotiable, but it's, it's on my list of non-food, non-supplement protocol. It's one of the first things, if not the first thing that we recommend. So if they, even if they don't have access to a sauna, like even a sauna blanket, like just getting the body sweat, get some exposure to infrared or traditional sauna. And obviously there's a lot of, you know, better, better, you know, good, better, best when it comes to all of these things. But doing something versus nothing is going to move the needle. Most people aren't sweating enough. So yeah, supporting sweating detoxing is, is, supporting detoxification pathways through sweating is definitely a, one of the first things we do.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Ozone is another game changer.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  I believe, I totally agree with that too.

• 22:07Gary Brecka?

  Dr. Cole just gave you the testing framework and the treatment foundation. Find the biotoxins, check the genetics, start with the gut, sweat, use binders and allow the body to do what it was created to do. Now here's the part that most people skip. Before you kill anything, you need to strengthen. Your immune system is the weapon. The infection is the enemy. And if you go straight to killing without first building up the weapon, you lose the battle. The infection retreats, the immune system stays depleted, and six months later, you're exactly where you started. Dr. Josh Axe has built an entire career around this. He's seen it with parasites. He's seen it with Lyme disease. He has seen it with long COVID, reactivating dormant infections that were sitting quietly in people's tissues for years.

• 22:50Gary Brecka?

  And he watched his own cousin beat a glioblastoma, one of the most aggressive brain cancers on earth, using the same philosophy. Strengthen first, then kill, then bind. Dr. Axe is one of the most respected holistic physicians in the world, a New York Times bestselling author, and a man who could not walk for a year after a spinal infection, and he rebuilt himself from the inside out. He's now going to give you the most complete framework for fighting stealth infections that you will find anywhere.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  If someone falls into that category of, my labs are great and I just don't feel good. I know something's wrong. I've got brain fog, I've got poor focus and concentration. I wake up feeling like a lead balloon in the morning. You know, I have days where I have crushing fatigue, you know, all of those things that these little bugs cause on the, on the parasite side. Where do they start and how do we get rid of parasites? Yeah. So, so, so first off, I think, and you brought this up earlier, one of the greatest things making people sick today, and most, every person in longevity would agree with this is, this sort of immunodeficiency, and this is where your immune system is tacked, you're building up these immunosinnescent cells in our immune system sick.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  I, I think that when I, when I, in order to address that and, and find that and find the cause of that, let me, let me go the blood work thing first. You and I have both experienced this. I have had thousands of people come into me saying, I feel awful, but my blood work is normal.

• 24:12Gary Brecka?

  Yeah.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  And, and then, and then doctors.

• 24:15Gary Brecka?

  Thousands.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Yeah. And doctors will say oftentimes, it's all in your head, you're fine. Here's the thing about a lot of lab work though, it might look at what's in your blood, but it doesn't look at what's going on inside your cell. It doesn't go and look at what's going on in every organ system. So it's, I mean, you're only, you're only seeing a snapshot at one point in time, not what's going on in terms of trends on a regular basis. So, so to your point, I think that, and then a lot of the lab tests,

• 24:42Speaker 03

  I don't want to necessarily say outdated, but they're not enough. I mean, there are a lot of other things we should be looking at there.

• 24:47Gary Brecka?

  Very, very basic.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  And so when it comes to these microbial overgrowth, the first thing that people are getting wrong, whether it be with a parasite or long COVID or Lyme disease or mold, is that the first thing they try and do is go and kill the infection. That's the first thing they try and do. And oftentimes it's with an antibiotic drug, that is today statistically the most common thing that people are taking.

• 25:11Gary Brecka?

  Oxycycline for Lyme disease, for example.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Exactly. By the way, I will say, we both love Cancun. We got one of our favorite clinics, Rehealth there. So it's.

• 25:18Gary Brecka?

  Okay. So if you get a parasite, you can go to Rehealth.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  Exactly. I go regularly. So I love Cancun. So, but, but you know, I think for most people, they actually get the infection and it spreads because their immune system is depleted to start with. I think if, if most people's immune systems were strong and bolstered enough, they would have the infection come in and their immune system would kill it. They would kill the parasites. It would, and, but that's not happening. And so the first thing people need to do if they have a parasitic infection or any infection, Lyme, long COVID, they need to strengthen their immune system, get more rest, spend more time in the sun, spend more time with community. And then take herbals and eat foods that are immune strengthening, not the ones that are killing things, but that are strengthening your own immune system.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  And then your immune system will kill the infection in part. So this is where I really like an herb like astragalus. I love reishi mushroom. I even like, I like ashwagandha to a degree. These things are very, very building over time of the immune system. And then also taking things to just get out of the fight or flight state, everything from skull cap to higher doses of magnesium to, you know, magnolia, like the things that kind of help lower fight or flight, strengthen up your body's mitochondria. And then your body can kill a lot of it itself. I typically have people do capsules or tinctures of, of black walnut and wormwood. And there are others that are great too, but those are the two most commonly recommended and prescribed by holistic practitioners

• 26:50Speaker 03

  for parasitic infections. And then along with that, ivermectin. Now, those are things you don't want to be on long-term. It's anywhere from typically a two-week cycle to a six-week cycle of those. And then with that, you oftentimes want to do binders. Now, a lot of people like activated charcoal. I'm not as big a fan of that. I'm, in a short term, I think it's great. Like if I have somebody having the cervix fillings removed or a two-week cleanse, I'll have them do that. And I think it's fantastic. But I think if you're going to do something a little more long-term, I really like clay. I really like chlorella.

• 27:20Gary Brecka?

  I guess silica clay, chlorella.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Exactly. I like pectin, like citrus pectin. So those are.

• 27:26Gary Brecka?

  Zeolite.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  And zeolites are great too. And then very high dose probiotics. A lot of people do a trillion a day.

• 27:31Gary Brecka?

  Wow.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Of probiotics, especially post, post-treating. But if you follow that right process of strengthen, kill and bind. And then of course, with that, infrared sauna sweating is just absolutely amazing to support the process. But you have helped a lot of people get rid of and kill parasitic infections, long COVID, these, these different types of infections. But a lot of people don't do the right process. It's like, I'm going to take one supplement or I'm going to take just an antibiotic and then they never fully get rid of the infection. Well, the first thing that happened is people skipped a step. They didn't strengthen. You know, Lyme overcame your butt, you know, this is years ago. My whole family, like my, my, my immediate family, like my sister, my brother, my dad, my mom, we all took a,

• 28:16Speaker 03

  we, and we did a, this is like ultra-powered microscope and did tests to see if we had Lyme. I'm the only person in my family that didn't show up in. All four of my fam, my, my immediate family members had, had Lyme disease. What was weird is, is that none of them had symptoms, but my sister had, my brother had Hashimoto's, my mom, you know, like, like, there were other symptoms, but not like these common symptoms that you would see with like the joint pain and some of the things you'd see of, of Lyme. A lot of people have Lyme, but if your immune system is strong enough, you'll, you will have no symptoms. So my point there is, is that you do need to take something to help kill Lyme.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  But more importantly, you need to strengthen your own system. So your, your own immune system can keep Lyme and cancer and all the other co-infections at bay. There's another study that was really interesting. They said, if you get long COVID, that viral infection, it activates these other co-infections like Lyme disease. Like your chance of, you got long COVID, your chance of expressing Lyme and other types of infections.

• 29:17Gary Brecka?

  If it was dormant, for example.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  That's right. If it was dormant, it's like waking it up. And so, so that's an issue too. But when it comes to Lyme, what I, what I like to do specifically is, I like to do a lot of astrag, well, one, let me go to diet. Most people don't, we try and treat it all with supplements and not with diet. I really want to do more of a traditional diet based on like Weston A. Price Foundation. It's a lot of soups. It'd be a Chinese medicine diet, similar to what you'd find in the Bible too, but it's a lot of soups. It's meat, it's vegetables. That's the primary part of the diet. Then again, I like pomegranates. I like berries. If that's the basis of your diet, maybe there's some sweet potato there as well. But, but that's the basis of the diet. And then from there, I actually, I do think that working on your emotional mental health

• 30:01Speaker 03

  is really important there. And then from a supplement standpoint for building, I like astragalus and chisandra. Those are.

• 30:08Gary Brecka?

  Astragalus?

• 30:09Speaker 03

  And chisandra. Chisandra is a berry that's used in Japanese medicine and Asian medicine that oftentimes it's, it's the main.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Supplement they recommend for mono, nucleosis if somebody has mono, but it's extremely immune boosting. Same with astragalus, so doing high doses of that, high doses of probiotics, and then a lot of vitamin D and zinc. And so really bolstering up and strengthening your own immune system. And then from there, there are supplements to take to fight Lyme, like one called Japanese knotweed. That's really high in resveratrol. And then you've got cat's claws popular and andrographis would be another one.

• 30:53Speaker 03

  But, but yeah, I mean, and those are probably some of the best. And then, but that's what I would do. And then, and then take your time, you know, and do a lot of the other biohacking things you talked about. I really think deep breathing and red light therapy are so, so good.

• 31:05Gary Brecka?

  Deep breathing, red light therapy, sauna. Three people, three different entry points into the same truth. The body already knows how to heal. The question is always, what's in its way? From Taylor, a plum sized brain tumor found with no symptoms in a healthy functional medicine practitioner who had already done everything right. The immune system had been fighting something it couldn't fully contain for eight to 10 years. When she stopped acting in fear, removed the things that were suppressing her immunity, got into metabolic ketosis and used methylene blue and red light therapy along with molecular hydrogen. She gave her body the environment it needed to fight and the tumor shrank in half before her surgery. She walked out of the ICU 24 hours later.

• 31:48Gary Brecka?

  No chemo, no radiation, and that's not a coincidence. That's a body that was finally able to do its job. From Dr. Cole, your labs look fine, but you don't feel fine. You haven't been tested for the right things. TGF beta 1, C3A, C4A, MSH, blood and urine for mold and mycotoxins, your HLA gene variants that determine how your immune system responds to biotoxins. The person in your house who's reacting while their spouse shows nothing may be saving that spouse's life by finding the mold. Start with the gut, sweat, use binders. The body, given half a chance, will do the work. From Dr. Josh Axe, the single biggest mistake people make when they find out they have a parasite, Lyme disease, or a stealth infection

• 32:32Gary Brecka?

  is going straight to the kill. Strengthen first. The immune system is the weapon. If it's depleted when you go to war, you'll lose. Astralgus, Rishi, Ashwagandha, and get yourself out of fight or flight mode. Feed the mitochondria, then kill with black walnut, wormwood, and where appropriate, ivermectin. Then bind with clay, Corella, and zeolites. Then sweat and do it in that order every time. The diagnosis shouldn't be where the search ends. It should be where the search begins, and that's just science.