“I know I’m safe but my body doesn’t!” Megan McKenna is coping with PTSD and sleep paralysis

Entertainment personality Megan McKenna was once advertised in a straitjacket. She was nicknamed Mental Megan, branded mouthy, and edited down to her worst moments on camera. Now, she can see that none of that was who she really was. In this chat with Fearne, live from the Happy Place Festival, Megan explores how she’s learnt to live more authentically. For her, that means less drinking and more home cooking for her young family. Megan also opens up about the anxieties and sleep issues she’s been left with after a traumatic robbery. Fearne has some gentle advice for when your body feels unsafe, and your mind is spiralling. Plus, Megan reveals what really goes on behind the scenes on reality TV shows, from being plied with alcohol, to being nudged into confrontations by producers. Megan’s latest cookbook, Love Gluten Free, is out now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Olivia Atwood https://pod.fo/e/273edd Michelle Keegan https://pod.fo/e/211304 Tulisa https://pod.fo/e/276729 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, I'm Fern Cotton, how are you doing? Shall we go back and experience some more summer magic at the Happy Place Festival? I think we should. Today, I'm chatting to Megan McKenna.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Do you know what, I was kind of riding with that stigma of Mental Megan. Like, that was my nickname, it was like Mental Megan. At one point, there was an advert of me in a stray jacket. You know, I had a brand off the back of it, I had my book called Mouthy, I had a lip gloss line called Mouthy. I was like, cool, I'm Mouthy, you know? That's it, it was making me money. Honestly, I was like, living my best life. Then I was like, do you know what, I'm a bit fed up of everyone thinking I'm this angry girl, because I'm not.

• 0:41Fearne Cotton?

  So, Megan McKenna arrived at the Happy Place Festival, seriously multi-skilling. She brought her little toddler along, who is the sweetest little kid. If you follow Meghan on Instagram, you will have seen her making cookies and cakes and all sorts with her little boy, Landon. He's so cute. But my god, first of all, I was like, I forgot how hectic it is, having a toddler. At one point, he just sort of ran into the woodland to never be seen again. I was like, oh my, I forgot, I forgot you have to, you have to stare at toddlers. Like, I've got big kids now, who actually are like, please can you get up and move? But toddlers don't, they don't stop moving, they're just running, back and forth.

• 1:21Fearne Cotton?

  And also, it took me back to those days where you're trying to juggle anything and have a toddler. Like, having a conversation with someone, let alone going on stage to do a podcast. So, massive hats off to Meghan for managing the juggle of bringing her kid to the festival. I actually brought my kids to the Happy Place Festival in London. My kids are about a good age now, they're 11 and 13, and they just kind of wandered off. And then at some point, my 13-year-old was like, he's, he's going through a phase at the moment of calling me sister. He's like, sister, I wanna go home. And I'm like, okay, cool, bye, and he left. And that was that. Yeah, I'm getting called sister, I don't know what's going on there, very odd.

• 2:06Fearne Cotton?

  Now, as you can see from Meghan's Instagram, having a child has changed so much for her, her approach to life. So, we talk through all the big moments of her adulthood, from being known as Mouthy Meghan on reality TV, to making beautiful country music and really gorgeous recipe content on her social. She's got cookbooks out too. She's poured all of that passion for food into her latest cookbook, Love Gluten Free. And there have been a number of really difficult experiences in her life too, which I really appreciated her telling all of us in that talk tent about, her relationship with alcohol, getting social anxiety, and, oh, something that's really stayed with me because I could, it was like palpable in the air,

• 2:50Fearne Cotton?

  talking about this awful robbery experience that she went through and how it's still massively affecting her today. Like, it breaks my heart.

• 4:34Fearne Cotton?

  Right, let's do it, this is the show.

• 4:57Fearne Cotton?

  How are you lovely Meghan?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I am very, very good.

• 5:01Fearne Cotton?

  Good!

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Thank you, how are you?

• 5:02Fearne Cotton?

  I'm really good, welcome to Happy Place Festival, to our lovely gang here, our lovely crowd.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  This is lovely, so nice.

• 5:08Fearne Cotton?

  It's so lovely. So, you are partly in the UK, partly in Germany, wherever you come from today?

• 5:14Speaker 01

  The UK.

• 5:15Fearne Cotton?

  Easier.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  I'm back and forth a lot, like a yo-yo, but it's just kind of become my norm. It's just part of my daily life now, travelling, it's fine.

• 5:23Fearne Cotton?

  Are you okay with that?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it could be a little easier with a baby, obviously, you know?

• 5:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  But he's, he's good on the plane, he's, he's kind of, he's, he's used to it. He likes the airport, he loves planes, he wants plane toys now, it's all a thing. So, I'm like, cool, let's go with it, I'm happy.

• 5:40Fearne Cotton?

  I still love an airport, there's something about turning up to Terminal 5 that makes me unbelievably thrilled. I love all of it, I'm gonna pop to Boots, get my little bits and bobs, get a little magazine from Smiths, heaven. But the, the worst bit when you've got, because how old's Landon now?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Nearly two.

• 5:58Fearne Cotton?

  Nearly two.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:59Fearne Cotton?

  Why do we still have to put buggies through the conveyor belt bit for security?

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I know.

• 6:04Fearne Cotton?

  That's nuts.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  I know, especially if they're asleep.

• 6:06Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, it's an absolute palaver.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  That's a nightmare.

• 6:10Fearne Cotton?

  A nightmare. Are you coping?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I'm coping, yeah. Look, it's, you know, I kind of knew what I was getting myself into with Ollie, my husband, and he obviously plays in a German team. So, but I didn't think we would be living in Germany when I had Landon, so it's kind of, it all kind of come at the same time.

• 6:29Fearne Cotton?

  And I guess the thing for, you know, I've had friends who have moved away after they've had kids for various reasons. The hardest bit from their point of view would be, you're starting again in terms of friendship, support, you sort of, you don't have like your old school friends or your mates from work or whatever to rally around and to be there. Have you found that hard?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. We've actually moved now to Berlin, so before we was in a place called Bremen, and it was a much more smaller town in Germany. And yeah, it was difficult with like, just call spots, you know, like coffee spots and lunch spots. It was just, there was like three in the whole, you know, like good ones. So now, I feel like in Berlin, it's a little bit more trendy, there's a few more parks. But, you know, I've got like one good friend there. You only need like, one gal, I suppose. And then, look, there's mums in the park, but obviously there is a language barrier.

• 7:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yes, how is the German?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Not good.

• 7:25Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:26Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Not good, and it's, it's a really hard language to learn.

• 7:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Like, I'm always like, what about if I was in Spain? Because I wouldn't mind doing a bit of Spanish, you know, but, yeah.

• 7:37Fearne Cotton?

  It's tricky, it's tricky.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 7:39Fearne Cotton?

  Hats off that you've just, you've got stuck into it and you're doing it and you're making it work.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:44Fearne Cotton?

  And also, I mean, I met your little boy backstage, he is just so adorable. And you have been on, and you've been very public about this, a real journey, a fertility journey, to get to this point, to have your little boy. How did that journey kick off? What were the initial thoughts and how, how did it progress for you?

• 8:01Speaker 01

  It, basically, with Landon, I always wanted to freeze my eggs. It was something that was, I suppose, being in the industry and I hadn't found the right person and I was getting, I turned 30 and I was, I don't know, I just felt a little bit unsettled with it. And my mum was like, have you ever thought about freezing your eggs? And then, I all of a sudden met Ollie, and it all kind of happened all at once. And then, you know, you do your thing and you start, let's have a baby and blah, blah, blah. And just something just felt off, you know, you just, you just know, you have like a feeling. So, I thought I'd go and get checked, and my womb lining was thin. So, it made sense because I had all the tests and stuff and everything was kind of working fine in my body.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  I just needed to have a thicker lining for the embryo to stick. So, I mean, it is insane what they can do, it is insane. I see everything on a screen, I actually see Landon get put in me.

• 8:55Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Like, live on the screen, like this one, I was laying there. And they have this, they're just so advanced with everything now also, they have this thing called embryo glue, and they made sure they put, yeah, and they put embryo glue in, yeah, it was crazy. And then, I basically just didn't move for two weeks. I was like, I don't, they were like, you can go places, and I was like, I was so nervous. Because I feel like I'd had this horrendous four months of having this condition called OHSS, which is overhypostimulation of your ovaries, I'm not sure if many people know about it, but, oh, it's awful. Basically, you're, it's like you're pregnant, but there's nothing in there.

• 9:32Fearne Cotton?

  And what, this is something you've experienced long term, since what, teenage years?

• 9:36Speaker 01

  No, literally in the space of having the fertility journey. Yeah, while I was injecting and making my womb lining thicker. I got OHSS, which delayed everything, was hospitalized. My ovaries were like so overgrown. Obviously they can rupture and I had fluid in my tummy and it was just an extra thing that I didn't need.

• 9:57Fearne Cotton?

  No, no.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  To fall pregnant.

• 9:58Fearne Cotton?

  And also it's stressful, you know, we've probably all of us have either experienced it ourselves or had mates.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:04Fearne Cotton?

  You know, gone through the IVF route of things or otherwise. And it is stressful because there's that pressure. And also with our bodies, a lot of the time we are out of control in that situation. There's only so much you can do and people will tell you unhelpful things like, you've just got to relax.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  I know.

• 10:20Fearne Cotton?

  Be stressed or whatever, which makes you even more stressed. Did you find it stressful?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Very. It was stressful, but I couldn't have done it really without my mum. Like my mum is, I'd say, I call my mum 50 times a day.

• 10:34Fearne Cotton?

  Do you?

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I don't know what it is. I think she's always been there for me through my career and like.

• 10:40Fearne Cotton?

  I love that.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and she just knows everything about me, like everything. She's like my best friend. And through that whole journey, I would be, Ollie works a lot, Ollie's away a lot. And, you know, I was doing a lot of the pregnancy, some weekends completely on my own or him being away. And I would be ringing my mum and being in the supermarket, I've got a twinge, something's wrong. I've got to put the shopping bags, I'm just leaving her. And I was like, I don't know what to do, you know, I was really like that.

• 11:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  And then I started to have some pregnancy acupuncture and just really calm and try and do so. I was doing meditation and it really helped. So I was doing nighttime meditation with this thing that they gave me on this tape about the baby growing in your body. And I really felt it helped.

• 11:20Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so lovely.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  It was lovely, yeah.

• 11:22Fearne Cotton?

  Whatever helps calm your brain.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:24Fearne Cotton?

  So when you're calling your mum, is your mum pretty good with, say you've got, like you're panicking about something? Or there's a crisis, is she, what's her response to that?

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Well, she's like firstly calm down, because I'm normally a bit worried. And then she's like, listen, this isn't that bad. Let's just think about this, let's just, what's the worst that can happen here?

• 11:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  And then she'll talk me through it. And then she'll let me kind of vent a little bit of how I feel about the situation. And then she'll be like, okay, well, it's not that bad. So how do you feel now? And then we kind of talk a little bit and then I feel a little bit better.

• 11:59Fearne Cotton?

  That's so lovely.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, she's, she's my therapist, I suppose.

• 12:03Fearne Cotton?

  Right, and she's free, she's free. It's amazing. That's so great.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love her.

• 12:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think it's really nice that you've got that support, you know, whatever's going on. You can call her, no judgement.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:17Fearne Cotton?

  She's gonna say the right thing.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  And she does tell me what's right and what's wrong as well sometimes. She'll be like, Meghan, you're being ridiculous, you know, stop.

• 12:25Fearne Cotton?

  And you can take that all right?

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can take it all right, but you know, we're like best mates as well, me and my mum. And we've had our moments. When I was pregnant, you know what it's like with your hormones, you can be a little bit touchy.

• 12:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  But apart from that, we're, we're very much tongue in cheek. She's a true Eastender, so.

• 12:40Fearne Cotton?

  I love it, I love it. And how does she feel about your career and, and how, you know, because I know that initially you are, you've got the most beautiful voice.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 12:51Fearne Cotton?

  Very into country singing and that was originally your goal. And then you went off piece to reality TV. You've swerved back now to country music, but you've been on a roller coaster with the whole thing. How has she, what's her sort of vision of that been?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  When I got, because I actually went to theatre school my whole life, like I trained at Artset and I had an amazing time growing up through theatre school. And then I was doing like girl bands and everything and I was auditioning for everything really. And it's hard to crack the music industry. And it was only when I'd had my heart broken and went and done a season in Marbella. I got contacted by MTV and to be honest, I thought it was fake when they reached out to me. And they were like, can you come and meet us in a club? And I was like, really, is that how they audition people in a club? So I went and it was real, you know, they were there, they were watching me mingle in the night.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  And obviously I was a little bit, I don't know how to word it, you know, a bit crazier back in the day.

• 13:53Fearne Cotton?

  We've all been there, babe.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  We've all been there, look, you know, I'd obviously was really drunk, but it obviously got me the next step. So when I went and had the meetings, my mum was like, I'm not sure about this, you know, you've trained your whole life. Do you really want to do reality TV? I don't know if it's right for you. And I'd just come out of a long term relationship, so I probably wasn't in the best frame of mind to be doing show about relationships. But I did think I was going on a show, a similar format to Are You The One? Where you meet new people, not knowing I was going into a show about all my history of my exes and people that had slept with my exes. So obviously.

• 14:30Fearne Cotton?

  That's quite different.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just a little bit, yeah. So when I got there in Mexico, I kid you not, back in the day, we didn't really know it was, it was Ex on the Beach. So I don't like to talk about it, but it was, it was Ex on the Beach. And when I did that show, they brought out a girl that had had a thing with my ex. And it was just a really, really touchy subject for me, because I was really heartbroken. So the whole series I was filming, I was on edge, was he gonna come out? You know, is it gonna ruin, I was, met someone on there. And when I come off the show, the first thing my mum said was, oh god, you didn't like do anything bad, did you?

• 15:07Fearne Cotton?

  So.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I was like, well, just a few things.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  And then I said, and I've got a boyfriend, he's from Wales, can he move in?

• 15:23Fearne Cotton?

  Natural progression.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  And he did, my mum let him.

• 15:26Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, your mum is so great.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  She, he moved into my house, in my bedroom, in my mum and dad's house.

• 15:31Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  And then that obviously didn't last very long. And then I went on every other reality show you can think of. It was like a spiral of just craziness. I went on from that, you know, Big Brother wanted me and then Towie actually wanted me before Big Brother, which is weird because people know I went on it after Big Brother. But there was talks before and it was just, I was getting these opportunities and I was like, how can I turn these opportunities down?

• 15:59Fearne Cotton?

  Of course.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  You know, I went on to Big Brother, obviously wanting to show people that, you know, I am nice and I'm not this just crazy persona of, oh, she's heartbroken and losing her head all the time. But obviously I went on Big Brother and back in the day, they did feed and feed and feed you alcohol. And, you know, I was 22, again, very drunk and made a tit of myself, again.

• 16:23Fearne Cotton?

  The thing is right, like what I would say is first of all, reality TV back in the day, when we were first seeing the initiation of it, coming onto our screens. It was a very different beast to what we see today, which there has to be more governance over it and control and precautions. So that people fully know what they're going into, how they're gonna be seen on TV, what the aftermath of that might look like. But when you started out doing it, it was the Wild West.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  It was, yeah, and do you know what? I, I wouldn't change anything because I'm really grateful and I loved everybody that I worked with on the shows, like the producers, the cameramen. I got on with them all. So it's funny because obviously when I watch it back, anybody that's watching it would be like, oh, I bet she's a nightmare. But I genuinely really got on with everyone, like it was just, a lot of things are ramped up. Everything's heightened when you're in them houses for like a month. And everyone like, we're all here, you know, we're doing a show and it's, I would like to think no one takes anything too much to heart. But it just, just kind of blew up from there really. Big Brother, Towie, and then I did my own show and then I did what I would say the more nicer shows, like MasterChef. Some really nice wholesome shows.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  And then finally I was able to kind of show just me, like normal Meghan.

• 17:40Fearne Cotton?

  But also when you're 22, I'm sorry, but I am so glad that when I started in TV, reality TV, well, I think Big Brother had just started in the nineties when I started on telly. And I, I didn't, I didn't, didn't do anything because there wasn't the opportunity for you to like do stuff like that back then. It was just, you know, they would have a whole new series and a new cast of people, but there were no camera phones, there was no social media. You know, when I was doing Top of the Pops or whatever when I was 22, 23, would I have liked my actual life to have been shown on the TV? Absolutely not. Like what 22 year old in that situation is gonna have decorum and behave in a certain way? You know, you've been given free alcohol, amazing opportunities. What 22 year old's not gonna do something a bit silly or?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. It, it was, I have to laugh about it. Look, some things I do see back and I think, oh, why? But you know, that was me at 22.

• 18:34Fearne Cotton?

  We all do, and I think also it's really important to look back at younger versions of ourselves compassionately and go, whether, you know, we'll all have a version of this. Whether you've been on reality TV or not, like looking back at yourself age, I don't know, for me, it'd probably be in my early twenties and think, you made stupid mistakes, did stupid things, all the stuff that many of us do. But I either, whether it's forgiveness you need or like, oh, I'm just gonna put that younger version of myself in my pocket and look after you and give you all the things that you felt you didn't have at that point. Otherwise, if we sit there beating our younger selves up constantly mentally.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:09Fearne Cotton?

  We just end up feeling awful.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah, it's something like, I do look back at myself, a lot of, some of the shows, I actually feel sad at, at some points of it. Because I knew what I was going through, through a lot of it, but shows are cut down to, you know, do you know what I mean? You know, like to nothing.

• 19:28Fearne Cotton?

  To make good telly.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and do you know what? I was kind of riding with that stigma of mental Megan, like that was my nickname. It was like mental Megan. At one point, there was an advert of me in a stray jacket.

• 19:40Fearne Cotton?

  Right, okay.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was just as shocked as everyone seeing it as me seeing it. I was like, oh my god, like back then you're like, okay, cool, you know?

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• 21:52Fearne Cotton?

  And did you mind, because then, obviously, then, the public, when you're out and about, you're in the supermarket, you're doing your thing, to them, you are just that one thing, because they don't know, obviously, all the other sides. We've all got multiple sides of our personality and how we show up in different, you know, situations. I can be very shy and quiet when I'm like at home or I'm out and about. I love being on my own, in solitude, not really speaking much. But obviously, people know you for one thing, like, I talk for a living, so I'm gonna be chatty and whatever all the time. Back then, for you, it was, you are Larry, you are this character. Did you find that jarring?

• 22:32Speaker 01

  I feel like, at the time, no, weirdly, because I feel, you know, I had a brand off the back of it. I had my book called Mouthy, I had a lip gloss line called Mouthy. I was like, cool, I'm Mouthy, you know? That's it, it was making me money. Honestly, I was like, living my best life. I was touring, doing uni tours. I didn't go to uni, so I was like, living this uni dream, and I was loving life. But it's obviously at the points, the points where, I would say, when I left TOWIE, it affected me, because my real relationship firstly was all over that show. There's only so much you can take of like your real feelings being just trampled 24/7 on a show and everyone kind of using storylines off of the back of it.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  I cool, get it, everyone wants to be in, in the episode, but it's real feelings at the end of the day. So when I left TOWIE, I decided to leave off of my own thing mid-series. I didn't want anything to do with it anymore. And then I was like, do you know what? I'm a bit fed up of everyone thinking I'm this angry girl, because I'm not. And it was only when I fully come off of doing full-time reality TV, when I went to Germany and had, was pregnant, and I started doing my socials and kind of just doing more of a, a social life on social media. It was then I've started to get people comment like, oh, god, she's actually really wholesome. Like, she's just a normal girl, living her life, you know?

• 24:02Speaker 01

  She's pregnant, she's cooking, and I was like, it's really nice that finally, because I've always been that.

• 24:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and you can get that control back.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that has been me all along. It's just never been shown. Yeah, I've never been shown in that light. But I've finally kind of got to the point now where people come up to me in the street and say, I love your cooking videos, not, you know, giving me one of my one-liners that, don't get me wrong, they're funny. But you know what I mean?

• 24:31Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, it's so hard when you think, like you say, you know, you've got your real-life relationships, being exposed to millions of people watching who will then have an opinion based on a tiny snippet of what they've seen. How do you think that level of exposure, with your real private life, impacted you?

• 24:49Speaker 01

  It's weird, because on the other shows, it didn't really. Maybe because them shows were kind of filmed and they weren't live, kind of. TOWIE was very, you'd film it, it'd come out a few weeks later, it was very live. And I just, it got to a point where I wasn't kind of turning up for filming at the end. And I, even the producers, I'll never forget, I was sitting in Sugarheart, believe it or not, in the background, and one of the producers said to me, this ain't the old Megan. Like, come on, like, there's two girls giving me a bit of, you know, drama, and I was like, not feeding back to it. And I think that was when I realized I was done there. That I'm done now. You know, it's funny at the time, but it's actually, I'm not laughing anymore, it's just too much.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  It really, really hit me. At the end of TOWIE, it really hit me emotionally with my feelings.

• 25:39Fearne Cotton?

  Did it make you paranoid?

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Really paranoid. And my friends, we joke about it now, but it is a real thing. Like, I always say, like, I'm whispering about something, they're like, why are you whispering? I'm like, I don't know. It's almost, I swear, I'm like, it's PTSD?

• 25:55Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  TOWIE? And we laugh, because it's funny, because at the end of the day, like, when you think about it, it's not a normal situation, is it? You've got cameras under everywhere and on you, and then your conversation that you think is private isn't. You know what I mean? And it's on an episode, and you're like, oh, wow, I can't believe I said that.

• 26:12Fearne Cotton?

  But that then bleeds into your everyday existence of you're having a cup of tea not on camera with people, but you've still got that paranoia.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  It does, I swear, it really, really leads it. Not just TOWIE, but all the other shows. You have to be really careful as well, like what you say and your opinions, and you know, it all depends on how much you want out on a show, I suppose. But I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I can't hide my emotions. So no matter if I was not answering a question, it would just show all on my face, so I might as well do it.

• 26:40Fearne Cotton?

  My face is like that, can't lie.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  No, I cannot, I'm terrible.

• 26:45Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  I don't know, is it a good thing or not?

• 26:47Fearne Cotton?

  Um.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  I'm not sure.

• 26:49Fearne Cotton?

  I think it's a good thing.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:51Fearne Cotton?

  It just means like, I could never do traitors, because you would know.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:56Fearne Cotton?

  It would be so obvious. But I can't, I can't lie, I can't do it, I find it impossible.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:02Fearne Cotton?

  It's so hard. The other sort of strange thing, and I think I definitely feel this with my job as well, is because you get feedback about you as a person, you know, you're not an actress, I'm not an actress. If people give you feedback and say, you are, that you're too this, or I don't, or they'll say even flippant things that, you know, they, they sort of have slightly dehumanized you by going, oh, I've never really liked her, not my cup of tea, you know, just stuff like that. Which, for as a human, you go, not my cup of tea, what have I done wrong? Like, why am I flawed, what's wrong with my personality? You can really start to overthink, how am I coming across? Do I sound a bit angry when I shouldn't, or do I look disinterested?

• 27:46Fearne Cotton?

  Or whatever it is, those comments really can stick with you if you let them. How's that affected you?

• 27:53Speaker 01

  I feel like I'm quite thick-skinned with the bad comments.

• 27:59Fearne Cotton?

  Are you?

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:00Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my god, I'm so jealous.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  But because I feel like I have been called everything you can think of, like, bad. So like now, when I see anything, I'm like, that's actually not that bad.

• 28:12Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  No, because honestly, like, you know, you've got.

• 28:14Fearne Cotton?

  But what about when it was really bad at the time? You, that was.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would worry.

• 28:18Fearne Cotton?

  Back?

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would worry, well, at the time, I suppose, I was young and a little bit more blasé with things, whereas I suppose now, I don't know. It's a hard one. I am a worrier. I am an over thinker.

• 28:31Fearne Cotton?

  Me too.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  But the comments like on Instagram and stuff, I don't know, it's really hard because I just feel like I've really been in bad places with online trolling with things, like to the point where I've like, I write about it and everything because it's, it's a horrible, horrible place online and, and I love being online. There's so much positive to it, but I think if you're not thick skinned with that side of things, it's a very, very dark world.

• 29:02Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think especially when you feel like you've been, I don't know whether it's misunderstood or people aren't getting who you are as a person, that feels very tricky. Obviously if people are out there spouting out negativity, you know you're gonna get bad feedback, but when it is just you being you and people still have an opinion and it doesn't feel like it aligns with who you are, that is hurtful.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  I think with, with me, I think when I see things about myself, I'm kind of like, oh, whatever, just leave it.

• 29:32Fearne Cotton?

  That's so good. That's such a great attitude to have.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  With myself, if it extends to my family.

• 29:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  There's a problem because I feel instantly like guilty that like, you know, my family and everyone is like exposed to kind of like my world and then I start to worry and overthink. I think that's a natural thing as well.

• 29:52Fearne Cotton?

  What do you do when you're overthinking spiraling? Is that, does that happen before bed? Is that where the worst bit?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's bedtime can be, bedtime can be a bit of a tricky one.

• 30:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, me too.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:05Fearne Cotton?

  Soon as I'm like, oh, turn the lights off.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:08Fearne Cotton?

  Eight thousand tabs open in my brain with every worry I could ever invent.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  I am the same.

• 30:14Fearne Cotton?

  There going, okay, go on then, off you go. Pick off. It's like so boring, so boring.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  I have to listen to a podcast or my brain is just too crazy.

• 30:21Fearne Cotton?

  Do you? Is that how you get sleep?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I swear, like otherwise I'm like thinking of everything.

• 30:25Fearne Cotton?

  Everything.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Everything, yeah.

• 30:27Fearne Cotton?

  So podcasts, that's a good nighttime tactic. What about in the day if you're in a bit of a spiral worrying about something? What would you do?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Bring my mum.

• 30:35Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, your mum. What's your mum's name?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Tanya.

• 30:38Fearne Cotton?

  Tanya.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:39Fearne Cotton?

  Can I call Tanya?

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:41Fearne Cotton?

  Because I feel like there are a few moments where it would be really handy to chat to Tanya.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I do call my mum a lot.

• 30:48Fearne Cotton?

  It's a helpful thing.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I do.

• 30:50Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you've got much more control over your whole life now, it seems, you know, you don't need to rely on doing reality TV. If you wanna do it, fine. If you don't, you've got your own projects and, and goals that you've got now with your singing and your cooking. You've had two cookbooks out now?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yes, two.

• 31:07Fearne Cotton?

  So brilliant.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 31:09Fearne Cotton?

  It must feel really lovely and empowering, sort of coming from that place where you have basically no control over your image to this is what I wanna do.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it. I love cooking. I love making people, I love the interaction on Instagram.

• 31:22Fearne Cotton?

  Saw that you made a lovely little, was it a Dayton raisin?

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, little.

• 31:26Fearne Cotton?

  Loaf?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Loaf, yeah.

• 31:28Fearne Cotton?

  Lovely. It was some cinnamon icing.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was lovely. Landon loved it.

• 31:32Fearne Cotton?

  Dreaming.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I'm actually not that much of a baker, to be fair, but that come out great, so I was really happy.

• 31:37Fearne Cotton?

  So good.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I'm more of an evening dinner. I like to do all the sides and the garnishing and yeah.

• 31:44Fearne Cotton?

  Do you find that relaxing? Is that good for your head?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  That is, every day I obviously cook. I do a big cook every night. No matter what I'm doing, I'm there in the kitchen. And it's so therapeutic for me.

• 31:55Fearne Cotton?

  Like your brain flatlines?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just cooking. I'm getting on with it. I love it. Landon gets involved. Um, and I love playing it up and making it look pretty, even if it's for just literally me. Like, I like to do it all.

• 32:07Fearne Cotton?

  That's so great. If I'm on my own, I'm like, it's gonna be toast.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Really?

• 32:13Fearne Cotton?

  I can't be arsed.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Oh no, oh no.

• 32:16Fearne Cotton?

  If I've got people coming over, I am so excited. Like my favourite is a Sunday lunch and I'll just do like lovely big platters and I'll always do a big cake. Like absolutely love it. I'll do little cocktails when you go, walk in the door, like it's all beautiful. Me, I cannot be arsed.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Really?

• 32:33Fearne Cotton?

  I can't be arsed. No, how can you be bothered?

• 32:35Speaker 01

  It is, I don't know, I, I don't find it a chore. I honestly really enjoy it. And even, this is crazy, I've moaned about the clearing up in the past. Because when I'm in Germany, Ollie clears up, so I cook, he cleans, and he's a really good kitchen cleaner as well.

• 32:54Fearne Cotton?

  Good.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but in the UK, obviously it's all on me. So sometimes I look at it and I'm like, whoa.

• 33:01Fearne Cotton?

  Now that's where I would come into play because I love the cleaning up. That is my absolute favourite.

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:07Fearne Cotton?

  Give me a messy kitchen, I'm in heaven.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 33:10Fearne Cotton?

  And, and like the, the finished product of it being all spattered.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  That is lovely.

• 33:15Fearne Cotton?

  Oh.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it is nice. That's nice.

• 33:17Fearne Cotton?

  That is a dream.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  But it's just that process of getting through that. I use every pot and pan and knife and fork. Ollie's like, why are you using so many forks? I'm like, I don't know.

• 33:26Fearne Cotton?

  So many forks.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  I always get a new one out to try it and then I go, and then I look around, there's like forks everywhere.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it's pretty messy. Um, but I'm getting better at the cleaning side, like I'm enjoying it more. It's part of the cook.

• 33:39Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's very therapeutic to me.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's part of the cook.

• 33:42Fearne Cotton?

  I feel like I'm cleaning my brain when I'm cleaning my kitchen.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  I do too.

• 33:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  And when I leave in the day my house, sometimes, you know, with Landon, oh, it's just everywhere, like getting ready, the dressing room, everywhere.

• 33:52Fearne Cotton?

  When you've got kids.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Oh, it's just.

• 33:54Fearne Cotton?

  Obviously.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  Nightmare, but when my house is clean and tidy, I'm happy.

• 33:59Fearne Cotton?

  Same.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I go to bed, it has to be tidy. All his cars, I like to line up. When he comes down in the morning, he's got all his little cars out. I really enjoy making his play area, even the little fruit bit, you know, his kitchen.

• 34:10Fearne Cotton?

  No, I, I get it. I mean, my son is now thirteen, so I'm like, I know exactly where he is in the house. Just follow the trail of destruction. There are socks and plates and cups and then there he is at the end of the trail. But the, the cleaning bit, I absent, that for me, I need things that are so mundane that my brain can only focus on like, I am just going monotonously through this thing and then I stop, the worrying stops somewhat. I love that. Does your worry ever tip into full blown anxiety?

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I actually do get really bad anxiety about things, mainly things like weird things like I might be going out somewhere, like going out somewhere.

• 34:52Fearne Cotton?

  Like a social anxiety.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I can get that.

• 34:54Fearne Cotton?

  I have that. Someone lovely lady came up to me today, actually, in this crowd, when we were on a book signing and said, can I ask you advice? I've got a party to go to tonight. And I went, don't go.

• 35:07Fearne Cotton?

  And she went, oh, thank you. Thank you so much. And I think so many of us just think, oh, there she is. Hi babes. You're not, you're not going, are you? No.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  That's hilarious.

• 35:19Fearne Cotton?

  And I said, imagine this, you leave the festival later, you go home, you sit on the sofa, you've got a little blanket. A cup of tea, got a little show on the telly, that versus going to a party.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is so true.

• 35:35Fearne Cotton?

  Nuts.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  That's so true. I'd take that any day.

• 35:37Fearne Cotton?

  Like, social anxiety is so real. I think most of us, I don't know that many people, please do tell me if I'm wrong and put your hand up, who are like, I cannot wait to get to that party.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  No, really. One, one, that's mad.

• 35:52Fearne Cotton?

  Two, we got two, we've another taker over here. Three, four, okay, four, four, five out of like hundreds of people.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  That's really funny.

• 36:00Fearne Cotton?

  Just think, oh, my thing in that setting, a social setting is, am I gonna say something nuts to someone? Like highly likely, will I then spiral for two days worrying about it?

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:12Fearne Cotton?

  Like, will I just be awkward? Like, there's an awkwardness. Will I be awkward and they're gonna go home and go, oh my god, why is she so awkward? Like, all of that seems like a mountain I can't be arsed to climb.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've, but it's weird because back in the day, going out for me was like, I lived for going out. So maybe that's why now I'm like, I feel like I've been and done it and having Landon has just opened my eyes so much to just doing really lovely things in the daytime and then being in my PJs by seven.

• 36:42Fearne Cotton?

  That is my absolute dream come true. Now, the thing is, when you were younger, when I was younger, we probably mitigated social anxiety somewhat by drinking loads. Because that is the way that you, and I will still do that. I'll go out and I'll just think, I just have a massive like margarita as soon as I get there, then I'm all right. Which is maybe not the best coping mechanism, but it's usually quite a fun one. But back in the day, I would just do that all night. Just like keep drinking to never ever hit that moment where I'm like, I'd actually quite like to be at home instead.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is true.

• 37:13Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, you've talked about this before, about using alcohol to help you cope and to deal with like the craziness of your life.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I only moved on to margaritas, I would say, when I was thirty, but back in the day I was poor. I don't know what I was drinking, a bit of everything, but a Jägerbomb was definitely up there. Yeah, I would basically be drunk before I'd even got to where I was going. And I think when you're young as well, like you just, I don't know how I used to drink so much, but I would always end my night with throwing up. Like if I didn't throw up, I'd be like, I can't believe I didn't throw up last night.

• 37:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that was.

• 37:47Fearne Cotton?

  A mark of success.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  That was normal. Whereas now, oh my god, if I was drinking to the point of throwing up, I'd be like, what a disgrace.

• 37:53Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  But I know it's all a part of growing up, but. Yeah, I don't know.

• 37:58Fearne Cotton?

  Was there bits where your lovely mum Tanya would say to you, like, you were drinking too much? Like, what is going on?

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was, there was times where she had to come and pick me up.

• 38:09Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Really bad.

• 38:11Fearne Cotton?

  Right. And would she give you a bollocking?

• 38:13Speaker 01

  Really told off, yeah. Really, really telling off. And my nan, God bless her. But she, um, she hated it when I went out because she knew I would get paralytic.

• 38:22Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And did that, when they had that kind of feedback for you?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:26Fearne Cotton?

  Using the word feedback, it's not feedback. Gave you a bollocking.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Gave me a bollocking, yeah.

• 38:31Fearne Cotton?

  Did you, would you feel like embarrassed? Like, what would you?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  No, that's the problem.

• 38:36Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  But I, I always told my mum where I was, like, so my mum always knew where I was. I would never lie. Whereas my sister, on the other hand, we always do laugh about it now, would always tell a porky and would like go somewhere else where, because she wasn't meant to go, but she would always tell me. But I was just like, no, mum, I'm gonna be going here. I'm gonna be back at six AM. And she'd be like, okay, as long as I know where you are. She was really like open with me, you know, going out, but she just needed to know. Because she said if, God forbid, anything happened and I think you're somewhere else and you're there, she said that would just kill her. So that stuck with me, no matter where I went.

• 39:14Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, what do you think now? It's so different when you have your own kids and you're like, I cannot believe what I put my mum through.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  I know.

• 39:20Fearne Cotton?

  Imagine London one day.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  I can't even, I don't know.

• 39:24Fearne Cotton?

  Terrifying.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  I don't even want to think about that.

• 39:27Fearne Cotton?

  I don't. It's horrible, awful, yeah. I mean, I think my mum was probably similar to yours. Like, as long as she kind of roughly knew where I was, she was fine. I am gonna be in a car, sat outside someone's house party, just waiting. Like, as if I'm gonna sleep.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 39:42Fearne Cotton?

  I can't imagine it. Like, Rex is 13, so he's not going out yet. But in a couple of years, how am I gonna, how am I gonna sleep? I don't understand how it's gonna work. Why am I just gonna lie there and go, oh, yeah, I'm so relaxed that he's drinking in someone's house I don't know? I'm just gonna fall into a deep sleep here, guys. It's like, no way, I'm never gonna sleep again.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  No, that's gonna be me. I don't know. I'm hoping though, like, times are changing. I feel like the younger era now are so into yoga and matcha, whereas I was not. You know, I was, let's spend my weekend wages all in one night.

• 40:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I think your generation was the last generation. Mine was the penultimate to really go for it. Like, it was all about going out and just getting shitfaced, basically. Whereas I think you're right. I look at, like, younger generations of, of women and they seem just so together.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  They are.

• 40:32Fearne Cotton?

  And they have leisure wear and they like go to Pilates.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I know. I would never, that would have, I would have been like, what?

• 40:40Fearne Cotton?

  On a Saturday morning, they're going to Pilates. I mean, it's commendable. I'm like, hats off. But I would be waking up in, in some, on someone's sofa that I'd never met before, going. And they're going to Pilates. It's, it is, the, the tides have turned.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  It has. That's what I'm just hoping that, let's hope this era stays.

• 40:56Fearne Cotton?

  Let's hope this era stays. The matcha era is here to stay.

• 41:02Speaker 03

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• 42:33Fearne Cotton?

  Do you have any regrets about that era of your life?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Um, my, it's hard because I don't like to say about regrets because I would never be where I am. But I would say maybe don't put as much energy and time into boyfriends when I was young. My mum always used to say to me, like, you know, you're wasting your time. And I'd be like, no, no, I'm not. I love him.

• 42:56Fearne Cotton?

  Because you would fall very deeply in love very quickly?

• 42:59Speaker 01

  And I was just, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I was like that. I don't know. I honestly don't know why I was like that.

• 43:05Fearne Cotton?

  And you regret it because you were then hurt?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. But then it's weird because if I wasn't hurt, I wouldn't have done that season and I wouldn't have got MTV. Life works in crazy ways.

• 43:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  So I'm like, it was meant to happen to me.

• 43:21Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm. I mean, it's, it's interesting when you can retrospectively look back and go, ah, I get it. I get why I had to go through something bloody awful because something good has come out of it, or I can see the silver lining. Have you ever had bits of your life where you've thought, there is nothing good to be had from this situation? Like, your life's kind of, you know, I think we probably all had those moments where it feels like everything's just going to shit around you.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, yeah, obviously, yeah, look, there is a few things, I'd say, through my life in my twenties that were not very nice. I would definitely say, I've, I've just most recently spoken about my robbery.

• 43:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Um, that is probably the main thing in my life where I think there's defo no good that comes out of that. Because how, what is there? It just leaves you like a walking nervous wreck. Do you know what I mean? And it has affected me forever. It really has.

• 44:14Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, understandably, it is so traumatic to go through something like that. I mean, I, I'm, I'm saying this as someone that's not been through that. I believe that you will one day not feel like this, like you do now about it. I do. Like, I've spoken to so many people who've been through the most dreadful things like that, who it's unimaginable to believe that you could feel okay, safe, all right, whatever. And down the line, it will happen. And I really hope that you have that feeling. I really, really do.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Uh, thank you.

• 44:47Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  I, I suppose like two years isn't that long.

• 44:49Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Actually, nearly three years now, but it's not that long.

• 44:52Fearne Cotton?

  It's not.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  For something like, yeah.

• 44:55Fearne Cotton?

  And also you're a mum. And I think that comes with a sense of paranoia, vulnerability anyway, because you're in charge of a little person that you love more than anything. So you've already got that going on. And then you've got that fear of, I think, like, when I listened to you on Lovely Jamie's podcast, I loved it.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, I love him.

• 45:11Fearne Cotton?

  One of my great friends.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Love him.

• 45:12Fearne Cotton?

  And you talked about it was such vulnerability, but the sense that home is for all of us, wherever that is, whatever that looks like, it should feel like a sanctuary. It's not always a given and we know that for many people who don't have a good home life. But when you have that sense of, this is my retreat, this is where I go to get away from all of it, the noise, the world, and we all need that respite. When that is taken from you and your home doesn't feel like that anymore, that's a big deal.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. And I'm like, I like to have time on my own at home. Like, I love to sit in and watch a series and, like I said, get in my PJs, cook food. I'm a very home gal. So for a long time, for that year after that happened, obviously I moved from that home straight away, which was horrible because that was like my first home that I bought. And you know, it's like, I just loved it so much. I had so many amazing memories there. Um, but you know, you just can't step back into that space after something like that's happened to you. Um, but yeah, I had to move in with my mum actually for ages. I was in her spare room for a long time. And then I was pregnant on top of it all, after all of it.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  And I'd say that's probably one of the, the most challenging parts of my life, actually. Dealing with, obviously, when that, something like that happens to you, you're obviously having like night terrors and it's very complicated, the aftermath of that.

• 46:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  So, yeah, it's been a big problem.

• 46:40Fearne Cotton?

  And physically, like, these are manifesting as like panic attacks? Is that?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say more in the night, it's more night time, yeah. So like waking up, you know, I've had. In and out situations with the whole sleep paralysis thing. I don't know how much you go into sleep paralysis or anything. Do you believe it? Or obviously a thing, you know?

• 47:01Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, my god. I mean, all of this is up for, I think, you know, there's people out there that will be listening to this here in this tent that are like, oh my god, I've been there, I've had it.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  It's horrendous. And it's, obviously, I'm in trauma therapy, again, because I did have a session when it happened. But sleep paralysis has like become this thing for me where I just don't want it to happen ever again. But obviously, I've had it a couple of times and it's all stemming from this, you know, this stress at night time, going to bed worrying, not being able to settle. Any little noise wakes me up. Landon sleeps in my bedroom still with me. He's got his bedroom, own bedroom. He's in with me, in his cot, but I cannot go to bed at night without him next to me.

• 47:41Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 47:42Fearne Cotton?

  I get it.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  And it is, I know it's a problem because he is at one point needs to go, I know he needs to go into his own room, I know. But I don't know, I just think to myself, if something happened to me again and he wasn't in the room with me, I don't know. I honestly think I'd have a mental breakdown.

• 47:58Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, look, you've got to do it on your timescale. It's for no one else to tell you how to do it. I think you've got to keep doing the therapy and heal your time to get to a place where you feel safe to do that. And it's a, it's a big deal.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  And I am, it's funny because I know I'm safe in my new home. And, you know, obviously, you know, you take more precautions when something like that has happened to you. Like even though, yeah, whatever, we won't get into it. But even though I'm so, so safe, I still feel like, could someone get in? You know, I've still got that feeling at night and I'm waking up in the night still thinking someone's coming in, you know, it's horrible.

• 48:36Fearne Cotton?

  The interesting thing about any level of PTSD is, and I've done, I still do a lot of therapy. I go to therapy every week. I feel very lucky that I have access to it because I know it's not given. But I get so much from it. And we can talk about things, do different modalities of therapy to get our brain on the right course with, I am moving on from this. But the body is a whole other thing. And we don't realise how much our body is holding, you know, whether it's something off we've been through in the past or something more recently, that the brain, we can cognitively think, oh, I know I'm safe, I'm okay. But the body is our nervous system, it's doing

• 49:19Fearne Cotton?

  something entirely different. And that's like, that needs a whole other bunch of attention to then deal with what's going on. And that can, you know, that can take a long time to move through. Like, your brain can be on board with it, your body's still holding on to so much. That's why somatic healing is something that I'd say, you know, anyone who's been through something rough, look into it. And there's lots of different ways to do somatic healing. But when it's focused purely on the body, and it almost takes the brain out of the equation, it's fascinating what we're, we're holding on to so much.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it is a crazy thing. It's, you have no control. And I think that is what I struggled with. I think the having no control of what happened to me that night, even though in a weird way, I'm going through therapy now, and she's like, actually, you did take control because you phoned the police straight away, you spoke to them.

• 50:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Asked them what they wanted. And all of these different things, like, there is ways that you took control. But obviously, I'm starting to realise, okay, I'm a lot braver than I thought. You know, you always have, I don't know if you have this, but I have this dream about not being able to ring that third nine.

• 50:26Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my god, I have, I have phone not working dreams all the time.

• 50:30Speaker 01

  All the time.

• 50:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  It is horrible. I hate it.

• 50:34Fearne Cotton?

  All the buttons don't work. It's like, you won't turn on. I hate those dreams.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  It's horrendous. But it's really funny because when that happened to me that night, I woke up, I was listening to a podcast, believe it or not. And I was so quick on my phone. It worked straight away, nine nine nine, right. It's like, it's like my, I went into autopilot of knowing what to do. So I'm like, I know I'm capable. But it's like, it's just time.

• 50:59Fearne Cotton?

  It is.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  It's time. And I'm, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

• 51:03Fearne Cotton?

  And you're doing all the right things. You're doing all the right things to move through it in whatever time it takes to, to move through it.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:11Fearne Cotton?

  And I really, I send you all the love with that one.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:14Fearne Cotton?

  It's a big thing that you've been through.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:17Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, really hope that you get to that good place.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:20Fearne Cotton?

  So let's talk about music. Because I saw on Instagram not that long ago, you are working on new music?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yes. So it, music's been obviously a dream of mine since I was little. I thought getting into the reality world would make life easier for me. I've done the opposite.

• 51:39Fearne Cotton?

  You're like a challenge.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Another challenge. I'm like, okay, how am I now going to make people take me seriously? So it's been a good, I'd say 10 years, I've been doing the country music on and off. You know, I've been supported loads of amazing people from like Tom Jones and Michael Ball and.

• 51:59Fearne Cotton?

  It's amazing.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  It's been amazing. I've had, built really lovely relationships with songwriters. I've been to Nashville, LA and all this malarkey. And then I would say, recently, having a three year gap, it's made me think, okay, I want to give this a massive shot now. I've got a new management, a new team, and we're just in the stages of having label meetings. So I really do believe in myself. I feel like the UK are really enjoying country music now.

• 52:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. We had line dancing here earlier. Thank you very much, yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Well, I just think everyone's realising, country music is so good.

• 52:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  It's just amazing, the storytelling. And you know what, how, how I'm going forward with it now? I was always shying away from talking about my crazy life on telly and stuff with my music, like keeping it separate. Whereas now I'm like, look, that's part of the story. You know, a lot of people that make it in the industry have done other things. And I think it's different now. Like, times have changed, people can do more than one thing. And I'm really hoping just everyone backs me on it. And I really hope I get radio play and tour.

• 53:03Fearne Cotton?

  We'll back you, won't we, Dan?

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 53:05Fearne Cotton?

  All the bloody way. All the bloody way. It's so great.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 53:09Fearne Cotton?

  You've got such a beautiful voice.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 53:11Fearne Cotton?

  Before we wrap things up.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:13Fearne Cotton?

  I would love to know, Megan McKenna, where is your happy place?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Can that be like in general, a person?

• 53:19Fearne Cotton?

  It could be a thing, a person, a feeling, metaphorical, whatever you want it to be.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Okay, my happy place is obviously, look, my family, Landon, obviously my husband, like, Landon has made me the happiest girl in the world. And I feel like I move forward with life now with anything, with work opportunities or anything, is if it happens, it happens. I have Landon. And I literally live, live my life for just seeing his face, his first views of things. And honestly, I'm like a proper soppy mum. And I never thought I would because I am like a dog mum, even though my, my little Daisy, she's not here with me anymore. But I've always been more of a dog mum over babies. Always loved dogs more. Having a baby, I'm like, what the hell?

• 54:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  They are the best things in the world. So that's my happy place.

• 54:09Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, I'm so glad, so happy to hear it.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Thank you. Oh, thank you.

• 54:15Fearne Cotton?

  Meghan, thank you so much for being at the Happy Place Festival.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 54:19Fearne Cotton?

  It's been so lovely to have you here. And good luck with all of your music ventures. It's awesome. Please, everybody, give it up for Meghan.

• 54:28Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, thank you, Meghan. I, I loved that chat. And yeah, I really meant what I said. I really do believe that Meghan can get out of this horrible space where she feels that level of sort of nerve jangling anxiety at night time. I totally get it. I'm not being reductive about that experience or dismissing it. I've been there myself, with obviously a different situation, not a robbery. But I definitely went through a time where I felt on high alert. I was like hypervigilant all the time for years, having panic attacks, I couldn't sleep at night. And at times, it feels like, well, this is it. I'm never going to get out of it. And I do believe

• 55:10Fearne Cotton?

  that with the right therapy, and you've got to really experiment, and also, you've got to get access to it, which is a whole other bag of onions. But if you can, and I know that Meghan's really willing to, and, you know, luckily has the resources to be able to do so, she will be able to overcome it down the line. I really hope that for her. Because like, we talked backstage about it even after we came off stage. And it's just so awful, like, that she went through that. And to not feel safe in your own home at night is just awful, really, really dreadful. So all my love goes out to Meghan. And I really hope that she manages to, to get there down the line. Thank you, Meghan. You're great. Her latest cookbook, Love Gluten Free, is out now. A massive thanks again to Meghan and to you lot. You are the bloody best.

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