494 Becoming a Man: The Brutal Initiations Boys Go Through to Prove Their Manhood with Tim Noonan

"The only way to grow is by looking inward." - Tim Noonan If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/494 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 484 with filmmaker and adventurer, Tim Noonan.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Theodore Roosevelt said, "Big jobs usually go to men who prove their ability to outgrow small ones." Welcome to today's episode. I'm excited about this one because I interview a guy that I just found out about recently, who went on an adventure for two years to discover all of the most intense rituals that men go through around the world to become men, that boys go through to become men. And his name is Tim Noonan. He's a filmmaker, producer, reporter, and cameraman. And he decided again to embark on this lifelong journey to learn what it means to be alive by exploring the life experiences of people across the globe.

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  And his new TV show, which is called Rite of Passage, is a 12-part series documenting his self-discovery to unlock what it means to be the ultimate man. Now, he met with the world's toughest men in the world's toughest places to experience their different rites of passage, where boys become men. From earning the tribes' trust to their cultural rituals and initiations, he endured grueling tests of pain to prove himself and earn their respect. I was fascinated by the stories that he told. You're going to hear it in my voice because some of the things he did are quite honestly shocking.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  And I don't know if I'd put myself through the experiences that he did. This is a powerful topic for me, as most of you know that I've been doing research over the last couple of years about. The Mask of Masculinity, which is the topic of my new book and you guys can go preorder it right now on Amazon at LewisHowes.com/mask. So this is again, something I'm excited about diving into more and I was fascinated hearing than the rituals and routines that boys go through to become men. So again, check out my new book that comes out in a few months. You can preorder it right now at LewisHowes.com/mask. And some of the things we cover are what would you say to women about how to support men in their lives? How can women support

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  men in their lives to become better men? Also, of all the initiations that Tim had to go up against, which one he decided not to actually go through with? Also, why a lot of these manhood rituals are fading away and why they're fading away? What we've lost in our society by letting our rituals go? The truth about how important challenges are to our healthy development as human beings in general? And so much more, guys. I was fascinated again by the stories you're about to hear. Before we dive in, I want to give a shout out to our iTunes review of the week. This is from Ashton Blair, who said, "I randomly stumbled upon this podcast on a day when I was feeling pretty low. I had no motivation.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  I was frustrated with so much and all around grouchy. And within 15 minutes of listening to the first podcast, I was hooked. I started going through listening to older podcasts and as well as the new ones, and I felt myself get more inspired each day. I love coming into work and being able to listen not only to Lewis's story and journey, but to be influenced by some of the greatest people in the world that he interviews. I wish I found this guy sooner. So thankful for this podcast that's motivating me to live out my full potential." So Ashton Blair, thank you so much for being the review of the week. And if you would like to be considered as a review of the week, then make sure to go to iTunes.com/greatness and leave a review right now. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode

• 4:12Lewis Howes?

  with the one, the only, Tim Noonan.

• 4:17Lewis Howes?

  All right. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got Tim Noonan in the house. Good to see you, man.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  You too, Les.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited about this. A mutual friend of ours forwarded me a video trailer of a TV show that you have, and it's on a topic about manhood masculinity. It's called Rite of Passage. And I watched the trailer, not sure what I was gonna see, but I remember being just wowed by it. And so inspired by the journey you were taking and also what you were learning along the way and what you could share with all of us. And in a nutshell, share with us what Rite of Passage is and why you started to go on this journey.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  So I guess to put it into perspective, I basically left a cozy cushy job in the city to chase.

• 5:05Lewis Howes?

  Sydney.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  In Sydney, Australia, yeah, as a journalist to chase a dream. I wanted to create my own rite of passage, design a rite of passage to become a man in my own eyes. And it really wasn't for anyone else. So I literally just got a map, picked 12 of these crazy places, one of the most remote locations on earth, where they had these initiations that were still culturally intact. And I set about visiting each one of them to try to put myself through their own initiation, their own rite of passage that existed in these tribal communities,

• 5:45Speaker 01

  and see if I could match it with the men. And it was, yeah, like you can't, you just can't plan or script that sort of adventure.

• 5:54Lewis Howes?

  Now, where are some of the locations and what were some of the challenges?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  So, yeah, we, I started the journey off going into Siberia. I literally caught a train as far as you possibly could to go live with these reindeer herders who spend their life on the ice near the North Pole, and they live entirely off reindeer. And they're some of the toughest guys.

• 6:16Lewis Howes?

  They live off reindeer?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  They live off the reindeer. They wear reindeer furs. They, they eat raw reindeer for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

• 6:23Lewis Howes?

  I saw you eating raw reindeer, is that right?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. Yes. So they.

• 6:26Lewis Howes?

  Raw meat.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Raw meat. Yeah, there's, there's, well, they do cook it sometimes, but you know, part of being a man there is having to, you know, so learn to survive. Uh, the biting cold. I mean, nothing can prepare you for existing in minus forty degrees. It's just brutal and they, they were some of the most stoic, tough men, but yet could still smile at the end of the day, never complain. They have to pack up and move every three days, uh, and learn to love and care for these reindeer, but then ultimately you've got to take. A reindeer's life and, and I, I'd never killed an animal before, you know, so to do actually go through that. Uh, process and have to confront it, look it in its eyes, um, to survive and eat.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And then, then it gets, you know, more confronting because then, you know, the animal will be. Sitting on the ice and you've got, they literally cut it up and you start drinking the blood and eating, eating the raw liver and all the rest of it and. It's really intense, but that was just the beginning.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  The first initiation. So you're, they're taking care of the reindeer.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:29Lewis Howes?

  They're like. They love the reindeer.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Exist on from the reindeer. So it's like a symbiotic.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. So they're like pets essentially.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  They're taking care of them. They're grazing them.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 7:40Lewis Howes?

  There, are they also kind of working reindeer? They're like helping move things.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they migrate. So they spend their lives migrating up what's called the Yamal Peninsula. I mean, it's so remote just to get there. We had to take.

• 7:51Lewis Howes?

  Like the North Pole or something.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, we had to take an ex Soviet tank and then, you know, we were looking for these, um, nomads. Uh, in, in the middle of nowhere. Uh, and then we got, uh, literally it took us three days by snowmobile. Um, just in, straight into the.

• 8:07Lewis Howes?

  Three days to get there.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, on the, on the tundra. And when you look around, there's no markings to show where you are. Uh, i- in the middle of Siberia. It's like the middle of nowhere. Um, but somehow they managed to navigate their way, find their way to this encampment. And then they fol- they literally just follow the reindeer as they graze up and down this peninsula. It's just.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  How many men are there?

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Uh, they normally live in family groups. So like, sometimes there might be three chum or four chum, which is their version of a TP.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  And um, and so we lived and filmed. So it was just me and and one other guy that uh I filmed with, who was my editor. Um, and he packed everything in to come on this journey with me and we literally were sleeping cheek to jowl with like six dogs, a family, under reindeer skins and stuff for six weeks. So it's it's pretty hectic. And then eventually, um, our guide had to leave to go back for another, for another job. We were left without a translator. So we shot this whole episode, um, trying to communicate with um, without translation. Something magical happens then, you know, you start working out. Um, you can read people just with with looks and somehow have a conversation with no words at

• 9:20Speaker 01

  all. It's fascinating. But that was just the beginning. We then went.

• 9:24Lewis Howes?

  And so the rite of passage for that was killing a reindeer and drinking his blood and eating his liver?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And earning the right just to be considered a man out there. I mean, they spend all night out in the freezing cold as a fourteen year old, trying to make sure that none of the reindeer escape and look after the herd.

• 9:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Um, from wolves and things like that as well. But yeah, and and if they escape into, you know, reindeer scam to a neighboring herd, then it's disastrous.

• 9:49Lewis Howes?

  Right. Now, how do they uh kill the reindeer? Because is it emotional for them? Or is it just like a quick slit of the wrist?

• 9:55Speaker 01

  No, they actually, it's it's quite full on, um, but strangely peaceful. They they actually strangle the reindeer. So you have to sit there and hold the rope.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, but look, you know, like I I'd rather do that than.

• 10:08Lewis Howes?

  Quickest way or is it?

• 10:09Speaker 01

  It's kind of the most peaceful way. They they don't want to uh waste a drop of blood. Every drop is precious to them because that's how they get their.

• 10:16Lewis Howes?

  There's no vegetables or fruit or what? Like, how do they?

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Um, occasionally they'll go, you know, on their way, there's a like a little village on their migration. They'll stop and they'll get supplies.

• 10:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Um, and try to measure how much they'll need for the, you know, for months and months at a time. But, you know, there's no way that they can just scoot on back and pick up milk from the corner store or anything, any supplies they need. They got to survive out there.

• 10:40Lewis Howes?

  Off of the reindeer.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it wasn't just reindeer. Sometimes there was fish as well, but they'd drop a line down, pull up some fish from beneath the ice and literally freeze it. And then for breakfast, they'd get the fish, cut it in half, and there you go, you'd eat it raw.

• 10:53Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  So, but you know, that for me, that was a, I'd gone straight into the deep end because I didn't A, know how I'd survive out there, whether or not I'd come back with a film at all. Um, so to, to go off there chasing a dream and then pop out the other side, that was a manning up mission in its own right.

• 11:16Lewis Howes?

  What was the biggest lesson you learned in that experience about manhood?

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Um.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Ah, God, look, I think it was probably actually having to confront the killing of, of an animal and probably also um, surviving, just surviving that whole experience. I mean, for me at that time, uh, I think a lot of people leaving a very cushy job in the city uh, and wanting to go off and have an experience and record it. I think a lot of people probably had thought maybe it wouldn't, wouldn't be able to do it. So for me, I had a lot of self doubt.

• 11:51Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  So emerging out the other side, having accomplished it and forming this incredible bond and earning the trust of and respect of these men in these really harsh conditions. I did feel like more of a man.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Um, and it sort of set the stage for what, what followed.

• 12:08Lewis Howes?

  Right, wow. So what were, what were a couple of other memorable?

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Moments.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  Moments and rituals.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  So we went to Mongolia and I learnt, I had to trap and train a golden eagle to catch a fox in the wild.

• 12:23Lewis Howes?

  You had to train an eagle?

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Golden eagle, yeah, like enormous.

• 12:27Lewis Howes?

  You had to trap it?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, trap it and train a golden eagle.

• 12:30Lewis Howes?

  How do you trap an eagle? A wild eagle?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Uh, so what they do is they, it's got actually a, a bigger story. So we, we got there, we hit Mongolia and I met my mentor who already had an eagle. He had a, had this golden eagle, it's almost like a dog for 10 years.

• 12:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Um, and I was going to use this eagle to hunt. Um, at the traditional way for boys to become men, they, you know, the part of the right is for them to be able to, you know, fly a golden eagle to be able to catch a corset fox. So we went on this extreme migration and the temperature got so low that his eagle died. After uh ten years he'd had this. Uh on the back of a camel, it was devastating. So we.

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  It becomes like a uh like a child probably or like a pet, right?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it lives in the house.

• 13:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, no.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  With the family, so it was devastating. And then he said, look, stay with me and we'll we'll catch and we'll uh trap and we'll train an eagle um be with me on this adventure. And so we did and we committed to staying with him. Uh and yeah, we we he taught me from A to B, the whole process. And it was just the most unbelievable experience. I mean, nothing can prepare you for a golden eagle flying towards you with these enormous talons that could pierce your skin, like the ultimate predator. It's just huge and it and it and yet it would land on you, land on your arm uh with in the most tender way. Uh and be your mate. And so, you know.

• 14:02Lewis Howes?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait. So how do you attract it to come land on you in the first place? Do you have like food?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  You have like a rat or something?

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, rabbit, actually.

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  A rabbit, you're dangling in the air?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little bit of rabbit.

• 14:14Lewis Howes?

  When you see an eagle, you're just like.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  No, no, see, you catch it by actually stuffing a rabbit and then you put it on a mountain, um a peak of a mountain, just flapping in the breeze, so it's a stuffed rabbit. Yeah, and the and the eagle, that's how it the word term eagle eye, it's because they can see for miles and miles, the sharpest eye. And so then they'll spot the the slightest bit of movement on these barren mountains, fly down, land on the rabbit and beneath that's a uh a.

• 14:39Lewis Howes?

  A trap?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  A trap, yeah, which is covered in felt to catch it, yeah.

• 14:42Lewis Howes?

  Catches his legs or something?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, catches its legs.

• 14:44Lewis Howes?

  And then what? It's like flaring around, trying to get out?

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then at that point, we come in and uh and then start showing the eagle lots of love and attention. And the eagle hunters traditionally will keep their birds for um, you know, about. Oh, actually, it really is only about ten years, fifteen, fifteen years, and then they'll let the eagle go back off into the wild. But it does become part of the family and the bond that you form with an eagle. Well, it's just hard to top that.

• 15:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So we actually came, we own an eagle hunting competition.

• 15:16Lewis Howes?

  So you wait a minute. Wow, wait a minute. So does you give it a lot of love? Or is it like trying to bite you and scratch you or what like?

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Um.

• 15:23Lewis Howes?

  How do you?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:24Lewis Howes?

  Put your face next to it and kiss it? It's gonna.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like initially, but then what what happens is you bring it into the house. And you shower it with affection and shower it with love and you just keep patting it, patting it, patting it.

• 15:36Lewis Howes?

  You're touching.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  And you feed it and until it realizes that um it you humans and you you're not going to be a foe, but. You want to be its best friend.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  And okay, and then eventually.

• 15:48Lewis Howes?

  What if it bites you?

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Well, then, yes, they do. In in the first instance, yeah, that you've got to be careful because I mean, I had this eagle. They put a little hood on the eagle to cover its eyes to keep it calm.

• 16:00Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Um, and then I was learning to take the the hood on and off.

• 16:05Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  And and I was just looking at this.

• 16:08Lewis Howes?

  Terrifying.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  His mouth just sitting there about to peck my eye out.

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  But it didn't, you know, and then I don't know, it's one of those those things. It's just that that bond between an animal and. Bird, bird and human is something you can't can't really describe. It's like a horse. Like in in Venezuela, I had to tame a bucking bronco. And um and that was an experience because I'd never ridden a horse before.

• 16:32Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  So to see this wild stallion uh in the on the open plains.

• 16:37Lewis Howes?

  Going crazy.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then I had to sit on this this horse and it bucking bucking me off. You know, countless times um and surviving that until you finally form this bond with this horse. Um, it's just something I'll never forget. Um, but yeah, like we we did, I mean, there was twelve different initiations and they ranged from everything in Brazil. The men would scale up into the tree canopy to prove their manhood. And hit an enormous wasp nest and suffer these stings all over your body. Yeah.

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  That looks terrifying.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean.

• 17:06Lewis Howes?

  That's my biggest nightmare.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Have you been stung by a bee before?

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  I've been stung by a bunch at one time.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 17:11Lewis Howes?

  I was a kid and it was like miserable.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Horrendous.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was miserable, but you go up and you initiate.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Deliberately do it. And it's all about confronting the fear.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Knowing that you're going to experience.

• 17:21Lewis Howes?

  Through extreme pain.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Extreme pain, yeah.

• 17:23Lewis Howes?

  So you climb the tree.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Well, look, so as part of, part of being a man is learning when to walk away. And so he, he was actually, at that point, I'd done so many initiations that when it came, I'd already, and I'd hit a small wasp nest and I got annihilated. So the final event in this particular episode was hitting a nest that was almost a meter and a bit big. And I was looking up at it and I'm just going, no, it's just not worth the risk. Because if you fall from the tree canopy, which was three stories high. So you have to hold yourself, you're not strapped in there. No, no, no, no. So you have to hang on while you're getting stung. Getting stung. You can't swat anything. And if you get stung on the nose, you fall from the canopy because you blackout. Cause it's that powerful.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I watched, and also I'd seen these guys, I'd filmed a, a group of initiates being stung prior to that. And I'd watched them suffer for hours crying, hours and hours on end, thinking they were gonna die. So for me to put myself through that again, I, I sort of. Oh my gosh. I'd proven to myself. You were man enough. I was man enough. So I did, I chose to walk away. I still wanted to have kids and get married and have a family and I just wasn't worth the risk. Oh my gosh. But you did like a small one. You like. I did a small one, yeah. But still had like a hundred wasps or something. Oh yeah, no, more than that. But, you know, it was only, not that big. But they were still stinging the crap out of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could at least run away as opposed to like fall. Exactly. Hundred foot tree or something.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  It was only, it was only sort of head level. So that was okay. Oh my gosh, man. Just trying to think. So it was another part in Brazil where another tribe, where they boys become men by um, suffering extreme fatigue and exhaustion to bring them to a delirious point where they see a vision of their future. Wow. So that was another place. And then in that tribe, they were the toughest guys around, really tough, but also gentle giants. Hmm. Um, and yeah, so it was a, it was a wild ride. Um. What was the most painful experience?

• 19:28Lewis Howes?

  To go through yourself and to also watch.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  The most painful was I got, I mean, I'd never been in a fight before and part of the initiation in that same tribe in Brazil was you had to confront another rival clan member with a club.

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  Club.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  A club, yeah.

• 19:45Lewis Howes?

  So we had wooden bat.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it wasn't wooden. It was like a root of a tree. So everybody gets given a root.

• 19:51Lewis Howes?

  Like a bamboo type of.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, a bit tougher than a bamboo bamboo.

• 19:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Club, but yeah. And that was intense.

• 19:59Lewis Howes?

  And you just beat each other as hard as you can.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, until one gives in.

• 20:02Lewis Howes?

  In the face and the head is okay.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Uh, not in the head, heads out of bounds, um, but you can anywhere on the side of the body, you're allowed to hit.

• 20:09Lewis Howes?

  But not in the groin.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Not in the groin, but when you see somebody walking towards you and he's about to hit you with a club, there's no turning back. You've. You have to fight.

• 20:20Lewis Howes?

  Like a circle of like.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, circle every and everybody's chanting and cheering and.

• 20:25Lewis Howes?

  It's like the UFC outside.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, for real.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  The crap out of each other.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  So I broke a rib.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's the worst feeling ever.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, because they'd matched me with a guy. It's actually designed, normally they put, um, the younger kids in to sort of toughen them up and it's, and the fathers, you know, uh, guide them into the ring and it's a clan on clan thing. So you don't want to disappoint your clan.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  So you're against another clan.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're against.

• 20:49Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  So my host family, uh, you know, I didn't want to disappoint them and just, so it was a, it was an honor thing for me.

• 20:56Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Um, and so when, yeah, I mean, I, I, cause I film it myself. So I'd set up the camera. And, uh, I put my mate behind it and then I got back into position and I thought, okay. It's really going to happen. And then all of a sudden I'm in this fight and, uh.

• 21:15Lewis Howes?

  You never fought before.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  I never fought before. And so, yeah, I broke a rib and, um. And then I thought I'd actually broken my arm as well, but yeah, it was, that's all part of it. So where we went, there was no. Did you get a good shot at it at least? Yeah, yeah, I did. Well, the funny, the funny thing about that sequence was I, I was so high on adrenaline, I didn't realise I was hurt. And I came back around, I looked through the lens and I realised I was smiling through the whole shot. And I thought, oh no, I've got to, got to do this again. So I went back into the ring. And at that point, um, I had a, I had a second round with this guy and he was, I mean, I broke like five, five clubs over this, this fella and he just kept coming. He wasn't hurt at all. Um, was he bigger than you, same size?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  He was the same, same size as me. So yeah, they matched me up with somebody that was my size, my strength, a bit younger. They usually put someone who's like stronger than you or what, like the father's wood or? Oh, no, no, it's a pretty even match. Got it. Yeah. He was younger. Yeah, he was younger, tougher. Um. Yeah, that was the most pain. That was definitely the most painful. Yeah. More than the wasps. I mean, I've been, I've had my ears pierced with like a puma bone in the same tribe. Um, because all of these places, they sort of have a mark of a man. So once you've gone through the process of confronting your, what they perceive to be their greatest fear. Um, they usually, they usually sort of get reintegrated back into the community with that mark of a man.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  And in that case, it was getting your ears pierced. Um, in some places I was scarred. Um, they took, took to me with a razor, like and, and a knife. In other places, it was more just like a physical challenge. Um, but yeah, it's really, it was really interesting to, to me. Uh, people often say like, do you feel like more of a man now you've gone off and done this? And I guess the, the short answer is yes. Um, because I guess as a kid, I never probably felt quite tough enough. Um, you never did. No, I don't, I don't think so. You grew up in Australia.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  So for me, it was quite, it was kind of important, but you don't certainly, everybody doesn't need to go off and jump on wild bulls and horses and crazy things to prove their manhood. You could do it, um, in normal, everyday city life. Should we have to prove our manhood in the first place as men? Um.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  That's a really good question. No, but I think you need to prove to yourself. I mean, it's changing, isn't it? Like, once upon a time, we were warriors and we'd have to hunt and provide. You know, and and and protect the the village or the clan we were in.

• 23:59Lewis Howes?

  But that's what these people are still doing.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  That's what these people are still doing, yeah.

• 24:03Lewis Howes?

  The tribes, the people that are.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:05Lewis Howes?

  They still have to protect, provide, make sure there's food, shelter.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Well, not to the same extent, because like, I guess there's no sort of, I mean, unless you go to some places in Africa, they're not warring each other. Certainly in Africa, there are still places where that happens. But for a large, in a large part, especially that today, uh, in the Western world, that's. It's, I think men are probably more confused now about their place and how they should prove themselves, if at all. Um, for me, it was a personal thing. I felt like I, you know, depend, growing up with farmers all around me. Uh, you know, guys that weren't afraid to get their hands dirty. Uh, and things like that. I think I'd always felt like it was something that I needed to do.

• 24:46Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Um, but it wasn't about anyone else. It was about myself.

• 24:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  I think, like, y- young boys in particular, like, it it it's. It's good to have, uh, I mean, for for girls, there's no greater rite of passage than for me to have a child.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  Because I can't think of any more extreme initiation.

• 25:08Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Um, that I would have, you know, ever been through. But for guys, uh, it seems like, what what intrigues me is all around the world in these remote parts. It's not like everybody had a convention, they got together and they said, how do we turn boys into men? They all did it in separate ways and it was all about this whole separation from being a very dependent child. You know, you grow up completely dependent on your parents. And it's about killing that boy to become a man in these places. So they separate, it's all about separation. They separate the boys from their parents and they put them in a men's hut and they teach them the ways

• 25:49Speaker 01

  of manhood in their society. So they'll teach them how to be with a woman. They'll tell them, you know, according to them. They'll tell them how to survive on their own, how to protect, how to provide, how to, um, make decisions, assess risk. Um. Raise a family and all those things. And then there's always in these tribal places, there's always this certain obstacle that they have to overcome that they feared since they were young. And they, during this process, when they're separated and they're in this men's hut, they're told about this. And it's always the lead, the lead up to this event that's worse than the actual initiation themselves, without a doubt, every time. It's the anticipation, it's the, the thought of it, what could go wrong, or what, the buildup.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me, and for me, it couldn't have been more so, because a lot of these cultures, I had no clue about how I was ever going to, so I had to crawl crawl down into a snake's lair to provide and and wrestle a monster python out to provide food for a tribe. So nothing can quite prepare you for for overcoming that. Bit by a snake? You don't get bit, you, you have to pull it out um to, because they don't have any animals um that they live with. There's no other meat. They eat the snake. They eat snake meat. So you put your hand down a hole? Well, you actually crawl head first into the snake's lair, yeah. Why? Well, that's just, yeah, it's just part of. What if it bites you in the face? Well, exactly. And that's, that's, that's the risk. In fact, actually, some of, part

• 27:15Speaker 01

  of it was putting, I had to put my leg down a snake hole. Uh, and they would, the snake would have to eat, like swallow my leg. What? Then the boys would pull my leg out. No, I did not. Yeah. It swallowed your leg? You, you actually bend your knee after it swallowed your leg and then they, everybody. You had a python? Yeah, on your leg. Swallow your leg? I didn't actually, because uh, something bit me and it ended up being a tortoise. Yeah, but. A turtle bit you? Yeah, so in, in the end. That hurts. We went to another hole and uh, and that, that hole was big enough for me to crawl down. So I actually kind of crawled down into the snake's lair. Wait a minute, the hole is, the snake made the hole that you could crawl down? It was that big? No. So what happens is the, the snake eats a jackal and overtakes the jackal's lair. Ah.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  So when I was crawling down into this, in this snake's lair, there were, I actually was finding bones. Oh, my goodness. Giant bones. And I'm thinking, God, I hope that's not his last lunch. But.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  So did he catch your leg?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  No, no, not in the end. Thank God.

• 28:15Lewis Howes?

  But usually that's the initiation, that to put their leg down there or their arm to get it caught.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 28:20Lewis Howes?

  That is terrifying.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Historically, that's how they would do it. These days, um, a lot of the men actually just use traps. Cause a lot of these.

• 28:28Lewis Howes?

  Smarter.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of these traditions are actually fading away in a lot in these places because there's virtually nowhere on earth left without Facebook. So the modern world's starting to move in and a lot of this, these ways of, you know, turning boys into men are fast being lost.

• 28:44Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Um, and you know, I think identity is everything. And if you don't have that cultural identity of where you've grown up, um, then I think it's a real shame. So part of actually shooting this series was about capturing these, um, these customs and traditions before they disappear forever. But once you've overcome that obstacle that you feared, often the boys will get reintegrated back into the community with a new name. They've overcome this extraordinary fear that they've had. Um, a- and they, ninety nine percent of the time they've emerged feeling like self, like they're confident men.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Capable of looking after themselves.

• 29:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  And this, like rituals are quite important, I think. Anyway, I mean, that's just my opinion, but, you know, we, we've lost that, you know, we, as in this society, we'll go off and we'll, um, you know, maybe your rite of passage might have been to go out and, well, it's play football, but to, to drink for the first time and survive that twenty first, when you, when you go out with your mates. Or it might be going out on a gap year and traveling the world. Um, but you come back and there's no real ceremony to cer- to.

• 29:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Celebrate that. And you're not really seen as a man at that point.

• 30:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  It's up to you here in the Western world to, to decide that you're capable. And I guess for some, for a lot of guys, it's probably when they have a child, that's the moment they become a man.

• 30:10Lewis Howes?

  They step in, they have a responsibility, they move forward, yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  But in these cultures, there's a ritual, there's a ceremony that surrounds that moment. And it's a really clear, defined path.

• 30:20Lewis Howes?

  Was there a same age for all these like rituals, like ten, fifteen, twenty was?

• 30:25Speaker 01

  No, no, it varied, like some, yeah, totally varied. In fact, in one tribe in West Africa, it didn't, it didn't matter when you went through the rite of passage, but at some point in your life as a man, you needed to go through this rite of passage and it would be for six years, living in the jungle, um, having to provide for um, the elders and, and be taught the ways of manhood. So a lot of guys would actually.

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  Six years on your own?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  No, no, with the group, with a group of men, just as initiates in the jungle.

• 30:55Lewis Howes?

  By yourselves?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  You never see your family?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  You sort of live on the periphery or the perimeter of the village, but you're not allowed to have sex. You're not allowed to talk to women. You've got to stay always sort of be, be not seen or heard. Um, and you've also got to provide every day, food and drink.

• 31:13Lewis Howes?

  Bring it back to the village.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, for the village and for the elders.

• 31:16Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  It's almost like they're super and you're like, oh, yeah, super.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  It's just like a level of, it's like, what is it, like a mission trip or something almost where you're like going out for a couple of years and providing or whatever. Yeah. Wow.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  Six years is a long time.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Six years is a long time to prove your manhood.

• 31:32Lewis Howes?

  Becoming a monk.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  It's like you can't touch anyone, you can't look, you know.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  But the interesting thing was like, there was like, you know, six year old kids as initiates, but also ranging right up to guys that had avoided becoming a man in the villagers' eyes their whole lives, but were, you know, in their thirties and.

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, I, I think there was probably even one, one guy in his forties.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing you learned about? It sounds like all these things are overcoming fears.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  It was, that's the biggest thing.

• 32:03Lewis Howes?

  That's it, overcoming fear or pain?

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, not so, yeah, not so much pain because I think. It's the fear of the pain that was for me.

• 32:13Lewis Howes?

  The build up.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, the biggest thing that I learnt on this whole adventure was to embrace a challenge. Um, and try to embrace fear and conquer fear as much as I possibly could, because every time I feel that. Um, it means that I've got something more to learn. So for me, um. You know, I think we're, we're as kids, we get taught that a challenge is bad or challenges negative. But you don't get taught that that's the only time that you grow. You don't get taught that that adversity is the only way and conquering that adversity is the only way that you can expand yourself. Cause if you're only constantly adored and praised, you don't go anywhere, you flatline.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  So the biggest thing that I tried to preach um in to myself is that every time that little. Fear bell goes off, that, oh, there's something else I've got to do. Um, and that doesn't, again, that doesn't mean how you're gonna have to go and jump on a bull or do something wild and crazy. Like in Madagascar, how the boys become men, they jump into a bull pit and have to wrestle the bull. Um, that can be in any, any aspect of life, can be doing an interview or writing a book or chasing your dream or doing something that scares the living daylights out of you. Um, and I know that you're a big campaigner for that and you've done that multiple times.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  And you continue to do that. Um, and I think, I mean, do you agree? Is that like the, the bigger message for you?

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, for me, I, I've always tried to just overcome all my fears as well by through self initiation, I guess.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:47Lewis Howes?

  Like no one ever gave me, like, here's the thing to do. When I was terrified of talking to women when I was a fifteen year old.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  I was like, I'm sick and tired of being afraid every time a girl walks by that I'm in interested in.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  That I don't know what to say.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  Or I, I feel insecure or I feel like I'm not good enough. So I was like, enough is enough. Every single day this summer from school break.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  I'm gonna talk to a girl.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna go up and say hi to a girl that gives me the most butterflies.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Every single day.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:15Lewis Howes?

  And just say hi and then have a conversation and then ask for a number and just like, just to do it.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  Whether like she says hi back or not, like it became irrelevant.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Is that how you met?

• 34:25Lewis Howes?

  No, no, sorry. But I did reach out to her through Instagram, actually.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  Um, but I, um, I just got so confident with myself.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  Like, I don't even remember it in these girls, right? I don't even think I went on, like, I didn't date any of them. I might have went out with a couple of them, but just like the act of doing it every single day built up such confidence in myself. Learning how to understand people better, learning how to connect, relate, communicate, understanding what people want, what they need and

• 34:53Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 34:53Lewis Howes?

  They're all, everyone's got their own insecurities and fears as well.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  And I think just going through the process of it. It allowed me to overcome the fear, you know, and that was the big thing, not feeling crippled that I couldn't do something.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  What did you learn about yourself at that point?

• 35:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, at that point, um, I don't know, I have to go back fifteen, seventeen years. I think it was just like, you know, that, that people are gonna like me and that I'm, you know.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  So was being liked an important thing for you?

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was. I didn't have any friends growing up.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:28Lewis Howes?

  So it was just like, you know, and then girlfriends would have been, was even more terrifying. So it was like, just getting people to be able to, feeling like I was good enough to be around people.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  Smart enough or funny enough or whatever.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  So was there a tipping point for you when you found that you felt like you were?

• 35:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think like going to, you know, junior, senior year of high school, like it started to turn. I started to kind of like develop into my body because I was like this tall goofy looking kid my whole life. I started to get better and better at sports. And so I just had some accomplishments and had a lot of friends eventually and things started to change. Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:04Lewis Howes?

  But I think it was because I was so committed to making a change and overcoming these challenges that I was facing, these insecurities. And just decided to give myself these own rituals.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:16Lewis Howes?

  Or rites of passage.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Very, very, it's very similar to me. Yeah.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. It was like self inflicted, you know, pain. But it was powerful and I, I, I feel like I still do it today, like even. Eight, nine, ten years ago, I was terrified at speaking public.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  And I was like.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Got to do this.

• 36:35Lewis Howes?

  I met someone who was an expert at it, who was the tribal leader of public speaking, right? I I went and found like the the leader. And he was a professional speaker and spoke all around the world and got paid. And I was just like, what do I need to do? And he said, you need to go and overcome your fear by going and doing it every single week. Join a club called Toastmasters, which is like an international public speaking club.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 37:00Lewis Howes?

  Where they facilitate you practicing it. You get up in front of their audience, you practice different things, they give you prompts and they walk you through different styles of public speaking. And I did that every single week for a year and it was terrifying. The first six months, it was like, I wanted to throw up every single time I went. It was so terrifying because everyone was so good and I was the worst person. But I just got better every single week by putting myself through it, by just showing up and just doing my best. By the end of the year, I just felt so much more confident. It was night and day. And I wasn't afraid to stand in front of a room of people that I didn't know.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Lewis Howes?

  And share a message because I put myself through the challenges. I think that's what a lot of us need to do is put ourselves through the challenges that we're most afraid of. Whether we live in a tribe that does it for us, most of us don't have that. And so we should be seeing like, how can we do this in our own lives?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Totally agree.

• 37:52Lewis Howes?

  Whatever the fear is, how can we become Batman? You know what I mean? How can we embrace the bats in our life and be one with it?

• 38:00Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people get pulled back and crippled because of fear. Like the the biggest ripoff, I think, is when people don't chase what something that they might be passionate about. Or chase will truly make them happy. And a lot of people say to me, well, I don't know what my passion is. I I I don't have a passion and that's just simply not true. Because you don't, you tend to scratch far to see what they do when they go home, what's surrounding them, what they surround. It it's in their office or in in their bedroom.

• 38:32Lewis Howes?

  What brings them joy, what they like to, you know, smile at the most, what brings them the most laughter, all those things, yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you only have to look back.

• 38:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  To find out what you're passionate about.

• 38:41Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  And like some people, I think if you if they say, well, I'm just, um, I I I just want to be a mom, well, that's. That's brilliant. You could leave a legacy of uh of children that will fulfill their own dreams. I mean, what better

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Uh, passion would that be? I can't think of much more of a noble pursuit. But yeah, but fear is conqu- conquering fear, I think, is one of the biggest and best things that anyone can ever do.

• 39:06Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  What's been the biggest challenge for you um as a man to define yourself as a man?

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Um, well, you may have written about it in in your book. I mean, like, it's certainly not. Uh, so I I think I went all the way around the world to realize that actually I was a man all along. I just didn't know it. Uh, so it's not necessarily having to put yourself through brutal initiations where you get hurt. That's not what it's about. It's about conquering your perceptions in your mind about how you see yourself. And being cool with yourself uh and comfortable with who you are. And you can do that in any way possible. Like, you can do that in the city if you need to.

• 39:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Just by asking girls out or or doing public speaking or pushing it, pushing yourself to go for, chase that dream or go and find a job that you truly want to do or um, you you know, uh, i- i- there's this countless ways that you can do it. So I think what I realized about myself, yeah, was that I I was a was a man all along, all along. And actually, and the biggest thing I learned was being comfortable with who I was.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What's what's your definition of masculinity?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Um, some, somebody that uh is is brave in the sense of conquering fears, I think. Somebody that's um that's not afraid to uh to make decisions and and follow passions and pursue them with wholeheartedly. Um, somebody that can treat uh women with, uh, you know, uh, as with utter respect. Um, I think I have like inbuilt perceptions of what it means to be a man from childhood about, you know, the pillars of being a protector and a provider and. I've got those those perceptions of what it means to be man that I just can't get rid of.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Like, I still wanna take care of my fiance and I wanna create a family that I'm taking care of. But you know, like, one thing I've learnt is that sort of rips off her as well. Because then I'm sort of saying, well, I'm I'm better than you when she's just equally uh as talented and proficient at her career as a journalist as uh if not better than I am. So like if I if I say I wanna protect and provide you, I'm I'm sort of cancelling out a um I'm cancelling out any opportunity she might have to protect and provide for me. Um and to work together, to to grow and and and start a life together. So.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's constantly evolving and changing. I mean, I think I've dedicated my whole life to documenting uh the rites and passage of of life and manhood. And whatever that may bring or mean. The the day I figured that out was the day I wasn't scared of anything. Because I thought, well, you know, one of my major passions is filmmaking. So I thought, well, I could just document anything that went wrong. Like, it doesn't matter what happens. I can document it. Uh and then hopefully I can share that and inspire people at the same time. And so. Yeah, that for me, that was a real release, because then I I wasn't scared at all. In fact, any adversity, any challenge that came my way,

• 42:33Speaker 01

  it's an opportunity for me as fodder to to explore myself and then share whatever I've learnt with other people to inspire them to do the same thing.

• 42:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If you had sixty seconds to say a message to every man in the world, child, adult, teen, boy, man in the world, and they were all connected to headsets right now. And they all put on their headsets and they had a direct line to your your mic. And you had sixty seconds to tell them something about how they should be thinking about themselves as a man.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Wow, that's a big.

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  And they could all understand you. They could all understand you in their own language.

• 43:17Lewis Howes?

  And you had to say a message about what manhood means to you and how they should be thinking about their manhood moving forward. What would you say?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Gosh.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  The most important, we're all here to grow. That's what life's about and to follow a passion, whatever that may be. Because at the end of the day, you can't die with material things. So all we've got is our experiences and we still, no one can can try to explain what what exists, what this existence is. So the only thing that you've got left is this journey, in this journey of life and on earth, is to try to explore what it means to be alive as thoroughly as you can. Push yourself, try to experience every extreme emotion and enjoy it.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  Embrace challenge, embrace every obstacle that comes your way and try to grow as much as possible and do what, while doing what you love. Because I think that's the only thing that we have that gives us pure bliss and, and, and, yeah. I don't know, does that, does that?

• 44:38Lewis Howes?

  Works for me.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Does that work for you?

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it works for me. But it's not about what works for me, I'm just curious your, your thoughts, you know, from your journey.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's a big question. I mean, I could, you could go and start talking about what it means to be a man specifically, but it's not the same for every person.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  You know, it's all different.

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  Now, if you were connected to, and all the men took off their headphones, and now all the women in the world put on a headset, and you've got to have 60 seconds to talk to all the ladies in the world, and they could understand you in their language or whatever.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  It's exactly the same thing.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  And the prompt is, what would you say to them about understanding the men in their lives? And the, and the best way to be supportive to the men in their lives?

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Well, that's the, that's the, that's the greatest question in the world. Like, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I mean, we don't always understand and get each other, but that's the allure of being different. You know, that's why, I guess, I'm attracted to my fiance and maybe what's, is it, is he attracted back to me? Because, I don't know, I think, mate, the, some of the strongest thing, the strongest thing I ever did with my fiance was to sit down and eradicate any codependency between us. So, what would I say to, to the girls in the world? I think it would be

• 46:02Speaker 01

  to allow your partner to, to grow in his own way without judgment, um, because, and see how every adversity that you guys might come, um, you might, might face can benefit you. Um, and vice versa. I mean, it might, it might sound confronting, but my girl and I sat down and we actually, we were in a, a, a position where we were quite codependent on each other and, and, um, feeling things like jealousy and all the rest of it. And the only way to let each other grow independently, because you want two pillars, right? Like, to, to be able to grow. You don't want to be dependent on that other person, because that can be really suffocating for both

• 46:43Speaker 01

  parties. So, we worked out all of the benefits of, it sounds counterintuitive, of not being together, until we both felt like we could take it, take the relationship or leave it. And at that point, you, this amazing thing happens. You decide you want to be together. Hmm. Because you don't feel strangled. You know that if it all collapsed tomorrow, you could, you know, go walk away, both of you could walk away and still be okay. And so, when we both did that, we both realized that, uh, well, you know, we felt nothing but pure love and respect for each other. And I guess the greatest thing for me was that my fiance never tried to change me.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Um, and she was always, she realized we all have a unique set of values. Mm hmm. And to not try to impose yours on someone else. And for her then, to kick me out the door to go make this series was the greatest thing that. That's nice. Yeah, that ever could have happened. Um, it was permission to be me. Permission to be yourself. And I hope that I could do the same back to her. Hmm. That's very nice.

• 47:49Lewis Howes?

  Why is it a few more questions for you. Why is it that um society in general, I feel like we need to prove manhood?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Um.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Whereas I don't feel like it's as much for for women that they have to prove that they're a woman.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  And it isn't in the a lot of these tribal cultures too. I think probably i- if you go back to us being tribal, like fundamentally from our roots, we were, men were always the, you know, uh, we evolved so that we could defend our village or our clan or our tribe. So we would have to go through these initiation rites. Um. So there was a period of of of defense so that we could not be scared to um protect the girls uh and have to go off and hunt and physically be able to go off and provide. Um, and I think that probably has carried through until today. So fundamentally, it probably is just in us

• 48:51Speaker 01

  that men feel like they need to prove their prove themselves.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  Should we still have that nature or should we let it go since, you know, technology and other things have changed?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Well, that's the million dollar question.

• 49:01Lewis Howes?

  Roles are reversing and all these other things.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I mean, there's there's still rites of passage in terms of football or team sports or things like that where guys have to put themselves through some sort of um in like initiation.

• 49:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Um, and they they emerge out the other side, but I think probably what would help even more would be some sort of ritual and ceremony, greater rituals and cer- ceremonies around that.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 49:24Speaker 01

  Um, that are being lost.

• 49:26Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. What do you?

• 49:27Speaker 01

  What do you think?

• 49:29Lewis Howes?

  About?

• 49:30Speaker 01

  You know, whether or not guys need to go through initiations and lots of passage today.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  I mean, you're still doing it.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  I don't think we should have to prove. To anyone else.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  With yourself. It's all about.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  It's all about just being okay with who you are. And I think in order to do that, you need to go through some type of adversity, challenge.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  I think it's important because at the end of the day, you before you can give truly to somebody else, you've got to be cool with yourself.

• 49:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  Otherwise, it's um, it's.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  That's it. Um. Are you playing? Are you hoping to have kids?

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if I put my kids through the same hardships that I've done.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  What would you try? How would you try to raise your son if you had a son?

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Uh, all about like, I think I'd probably sit, sit, I'd like if I had a son or a young girl. But um, probably more so a son would be to sit down. And um, no, both actually, both sexes would be to sit down and every night, talk about what scared them today. And what were the benefits of that? And what could they get out of that? Um, and try to breed, I guess, a mentality of not being frightened um, of anything, but trying to embrace that. Embrace that fear. I think that's the strongest legacy I could leave.

• 50:51Lewis Howes?

  That's smart. Yeah, I like it. Um, what's the thing you're most grateful for recently, Tim?

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Probably the challenge of, of like most recently. Um, probably the challenge of coming here, the show's about to be launched in the States on a network called El Rey. Uh, and it's, yeah, it's been, it's been a really exciting time for me because I'd spent two years making this series on the road. And it was a lot of risk that I'd taken, like also I'd proposed to my fiance before I left. Um, and I guess I'd walked away from my career and I'd risked physically, you know, um, risked a lot of failure, had a massive fear of failure.

• 51:41Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  And I'd risked, um.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  You know, my, my life so many times. So coming here now. Uh, and having the show being seen by so many people around the world has been an amazing experience. Uh, and it's tested me. Uh, because I had that same fear probably that you did of being not being liked.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  And things like that. Um, so and criticism. Um, so that's been a really cool thing for me to embrace.

• 52:09Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  And realize that you can never, ever please everybody. You know, you're always, everybody's always going to have, it's going to be a balanced fifty fifty.

• 52:17Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Um, percent of people that will like it and fifty percent of people that won't. Um, in everything and also realizing that there's a, there's an innate balance that the universe gives in every situation and every moment of, of your life. Uh, and that's probably another thing that I try to teach my kids to see that.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  And understand that.

• 52:37Lewis Howes?

  Um, this is called the three truths. So if it was the last day for you, you can only share three lessons that you've learned. This is what you'd be remembered by. Are these three truths or lessons? What would you say are your three truths?

• 52:56Lewis Howes?

  Could be about anything. Doesn't have to be about manhood or masculinity.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Ooh, three truths.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  That. The only way to grow is inward, is by looking inward. Um.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  That you should always pursue your, your greatest passion, your bliss, all your bliss. Uh, and that. Uh, our lives are innately, we all have a hero's journey within us that we have to follow. Um, and to embrace that journey.

• 53:34Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Uh, for the roller coaster that is life. I think. Does that make sense?

• 53:40Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah, of course.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Um, I mean, I struggle, I, I, I told my fiance I wouldn't go here and talk about this, but I struggle with reality and what it means to be alive almost every day. Um. And the only solace I get is doing what I love.

• 53:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  So.

• 53:59Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Because it's, yeah.

• 54:03Lewis Howes?

  I see where you're going. I see where you're going. Awesome. It's timnunin.tv, correct?

• 54:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:10Lewis Howes?

  Timnunin.tv. You guys can check it out in the show notes. Watch the trailer. It's gonna blow your mind. Watch the show. Connect with you on social media. It's all

• 54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, just facebook slash timnunin.tv and then of course, check out the Rite of Passage, new TV show.

• 54:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, check it out. It's a game changer. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Tim, for going on a journey and tackling your biggest fears because most people don't do it. Not even men, but most men and women don't go and tackle their fears the way you did. And also doing it in a way where you could benefit in multiple ways for yourself personally. You were able to create a piece of art and work out of it. So you were able to sustain yourself. You're able to give back to the world by showing people what's possible for themselves through these Rite of Passage episodes. So I feel like your journey was not just for yourself, but you did so many things along the journey. So I want to acknowledge you for that.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 55:10Lewis Howes?

  And for being so creative and tackling the things that you're most afraid of because I think that's our biggest challenge is we're not, so many people aren't willing to go after their fears enough. And I think that's what's on the other side of the fear is incredible joy, fulfillment, awareness, love, all those things. So, big props to you on there. And the final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Being the best version of yourself that you can possibly be, I think. I'm yet to meet anybody that doesn't want to be a better person. Or at least try to be a better person. That's what binds us all. And so, yeah, I think it's, I think it's exactly that.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. Tim, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 56:06Lewis Howes?

  There you have it guys. If you enjoyed this one, make sure to let me know. Tag me on Instagram Stories or Instagram Feed, Twitter, Facebook, all those good places, @lewishouse. Let me know your thoughts. Post an image of you listening to the show or watching the show, as I love to interact and connect with you guys on social media. Share it out with your friends, lewishouse.com/484. Again, I was fascinated by hearing the stories of the rituals and the tests and the initiations that Tim went through. So if you were as well, share it out if you think it'll inspire men or women in your life. I'm so pumped for what we have coming up. Some big, big things. If you guys have not signed up for the Summit of Greatness, it's coming in a

• 56:47Lewis Howes?

  few months. Check out the incredible speakers we have coming at summitofgreatness.com. It's gonna be a mind-blowing experience, and I hope to see you there. And as always, you guys know what time it is. Go live with passion, pursue your dreams, be good to people, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.