UFO Military Files Matched What Psychics Have Been Channeling | Dr. Helané Wahbeh

What if science is finally catching up to the supernatural? In part 2 of our episode with Dr. Helané Wahbeh (Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) and author of The Science of Channeling) she takes us inside the cutting edge of consciousness research, revealing what science is uncovering about channeling, psychic abilities, energy healing, telepathy, and the non-material aspects of reality. As one of the world's leading researchers studying psi phenomena, Dr. Wahbeh explores where the evidence stands, why mainstream science is beginning to take these topics more seriously, and what it could mean for our understanding of consciousness itself. Dr. Wahbeh breaks down: - How scientists actually study channeling and just how common channeling really is - Why respected scientific institutions are now researching channeling, telepathy, psychic phenomena, and consciousness, and what this says about the shift beyond a purely materialist worldview - Can channeling be used to contact extraterrestrials? What evidence would actually be required to prove it scientifically - Fascinating common themes reported by people who claim to channel extraterrestrial intelligences - Groundbreaking telepathy research showing surprising results between emotionally bonded pairs, and what it may reveal about nonlocal consciousness - Why our current definition of scientific proof may be too narrow when investigating paranormal and supernatural experiences - Latest research into energy medicine and Reiki, including studies suggesting measurable physical changes that may help explain how energetic healing works - Do spirit guides play a role in energy healing? - What's really happening during exorcisms, spirit attachments, and the clearing of negative entities? - Can energy work help heal or even reverse intergenerational trauma? - How Dr. Wahbeh's own openness to psi phenomena has transformed her daily life, worldview, and even the way she parents - Could the world's religions eventually expand to include scientifically studied psychic and extrasensory abilities? - What a future science of consciousness might look like, and whether we're moving toward a comprehensive explanation of the non-material world This conversation explores one of the biggest questions humanity has ever asked: Can science investigate experiences once dismissed as supernatural? Whether you're fascinated by channeling, telepathy, consciousness research, psychic phenomena, extraterrestrials, energy healing, spirituality, or the future of science itself, this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown offers a rare look at where rigorous research and extraordinary human experience intersect. If you've ever wondered whether consciousness extends beyond the brain, or whether science is on the verge of redefining reality, you won't want to miss this conversation! Go to https://alyahealth.com/s/breaker and use code BREAKER for 20% off your first order. Go to https://helixsleep.com/breakdown to receive up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Visithttps://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN http://drinkag1.com/BREAKDOWN and get a FREE AG1 Flavor Sampler and a FREE bottle of Vitamin D3 + K2 in your Welcome Kit with your first AG1 subscription order. Learn more about IONS: https://noetic.org/breakdown/IONS free live webinars: https://noetic.org/experience/connections-live/IONS peer-reviewed papers: https://noetic.org/science/publications/Participate in IONS research: https://noetic.org/science/participate-research/IONS Research Prize on UAPs: https://noetic.org/prize/Dr. Helané Wahbeh's book, The Science of Channeling: https://noetic.org/explore/science-of-channeling/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  In one study, the channeler believed extraterrestrials were the source. We compared that to a million pages of UAP documents, military documents, disclosure documents. Remarkably, they were quite aligned.

• 0:14Mayim Bialik?

  That makes me uncomfortable.

• 0:16Speaker 00

  The big question in energy medicine and Reiki is, how the heck does it work? How's the energy moving? Could they see it move? What color was it?

• 0:25Jonathan Cohen?

  We did a study talking about hands-on healing.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. What we did not expect was this report of other beings being in the space, the practitioner's guide or the participant's guide. We used rigorous scientific method to evaluate these phenomenon, showing that, yes, people can get telepathic information, awake and asleep. Our consciousness is not limited to our physical brain and body. We're creating a telepathy evidence map because people don't know all the evidence that already exists.

• 1:12Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iain Viallick.

• 1:13Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 1:14Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to our breakdown. Welcome to part two of our conversation with Dr. Halene Wabe. She's the Director of Research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. She is an ND, a naturopathic doctor. She is known for her pioneering research on channeling. She's authored more than 100 peer-reviewed journal articles, and we're talking about her book, The Science of Channeling: Why You Should Trust Your Intuition and Embrace the Force That Connects Us All. In part two of our conversation, she's going to explain why nearly eight out of 10 people might be channeling and not even know it.

• 1:47Jonathan Cohen?

  We're going to cover energy medicine, the chakra system, and noetic signatures, the unique way each one of us receives intuitive, psychic, and non-local information.

• 1:58Mayim Bialik?

  Also, what are some practices that we can do daily to maintain our energetic health? It's a fantastic conversation. We cannot wait for you to listen to part two of our conversation with Dr. Halene Wabe. Break it down. Your particular journey and the research that you've kind of chosen to dedicate your life to, right? This book. How can we even begin to try and study, from an appropriate, you know, scientific perspective, something like channeling?

• 2:33Speaker 00

  So, when I first came to Ions, I was still kind of in the closet, if you will. And I was just ecstatic to learn that I was going to be able to blend my research background with my personal background and be able to learn more about channeling. And what I didn't know, because I was so kind of secretive, if you will, about this part of my personal life, that there was a whole field called parapsychology that had been studying it for over 100 years. So, my mind was blown, and I, you know, spent the first, I don't know how many months, just diving into the literature, trying to catch up.

• 3:18Speaker 00

  And what I saw was that they were, there were many studies looking at trans-channeling, but there was no kind of concerted research program, if you will. So, when I came to Ions, building on what Ions did and what others had done, I developed the Ions Channeling Research Program, which was really focused on important research questions. So, how common is channeling? Who can do it? How does it work? Is the content useful? Is useful and verifiable? And so, we've done a number of studies in each one of those research questions to try to figure that out.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  And what I can tell you, just very briefly, because it would take us another week to kind of go through all of it, is that this is incredibly common. Like, eight out of 10 people have some type of channeling experiences that they don't talk about.

• 4:16Mayim Bialik?

  Really?

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. If you're in a room, not trans-channeling, just the broader channeling. So, if you're in a room of 10 people, eight out of 10 of those people will have had some type of channeling experience, even like a gut hunch thing that came true, that they don't talk about. Number two, in terms of mental health, no, you are not crazy, that most people who have these experiences are very high-functioning, very well-adjusted, and do not score higher on clinical screenings for psychosis or dissociation. The values are a little higher, but they don't reach a clinical threshold.

• 5:02Mayim Bialik?

  It could be because of the stigma of, like, this power that you have.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and that, you know, there are a small percentage of people who, the experiences are very intense and negatively focused, and they do absolutely need help. So, I don't want to diminish that, but for the most part, it's, it's actually beneficial and that people gain benefit from having these experiences in their lives. We still aren't quite sure exactly how it works, and it kind of depends on the type of channeling that you're looking at, but it really is aligned with this non-physicalist paradigm, that we're, you know, moving away from this kind of physicalist worldview into

• 5:48Speaker 00

  a non-physicalist one, that is, that we are all interconnected and that somehow we're able to tap into that information. Our consciousness is not limited to our physical brain and body, and that it can gain information from beyond that in ways that don't really make sense to this materialist worldview.

• 6:10Mayim Bialik?

  You are a credential, you're a doctor, like, you, you are an ND. You have been trained in methods of research. Like, I want people to understand, this isn't just like you having a good day and feeling like you want to share this. You've chosen to dedicate your life to understanding the human experience from a physiological perspective, while also being able to add a naturopathic perspective as well.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Yes, thank you. That's so important. So, you know, I am clinically trained as a physician. I have two postdoctoral research fellowships. I have a master's in clinical research. I was funded by the National Institute of Health to study meditation with combat vets with post-traumatic stress disorder, you know, stats training, you name it, rigorous background. So, what people don't often understand is that science is actually a verb. It's a process. It's not a dogma. And so, you can apply the scientific process to any research question.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  And, you know, the skeptics will get really upset and say, you're not allowed to ask that question. That's not science. And to me, that's just completely ridiculous, because science isn't about the questions you ask, it's about the process through which you attempt to answer those questions.

• 7:38Mayim Bialik?

  Well said.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  And so, yes, we use rigorous scientific method to attempt to evaluate these phenomenon, not just demonstrating that they're valid and real, but also, well, how do they work? And how do we moderate them? And how do we maximize the signal? Because that's what's really challenging right now in the field, is trying to translate this often elusive phenomenon, trying to evaluate it with this incredibly reductionistic process, right? Science is intrinsically reductionistic. You know, we need to have certain controls in place, right?

• 8:22Speaker 00

  And so, the way that we think about setting controls up and, and doing a very well-controlled experiment is based on the idea that we aren't all interconnected, that me as an experimenter isn't going to affect the experiment itself. So, when you take that away, it can sometimes feel a little overwhelming, because it's like, how do I remove my bias and remove this, you know, issue and this issue and this issue?

• 8:53Mayim Bialik?

  This came up when we spoke to Kai Dickens and when we've spoken about the concept of telepathy and especially what non-speaking individuals might be experiencing. And, you know, it's kind of an evolution of our understanding, is that there's something about the relationship between an individual who is having a telepathic line of communication with someone that cannot be studied in isolation. It just can't. You know, it's just, it's not the same thing. It would be like, you know, saying, you know, I want to see, you know, what it's like for fish to swim, but I'm going to put them in Kool-Aid, right? Like, that's not, you're not going to get accurate information about what it's like

• 9:36Mayim Bialik?

  for a fish to be swimming if it's not in water, right? So, that's something that I think is a real challenge. I appreciate hearing that, and it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It makes a lot of people feel like this isn't really science. But I love this notion that, like, what if the box is not big enough?

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Exactly. Just to give you a really interesting example, so, there's this whole idea of out-of-body experiences and, you know, people having surgeries, and then, you know, they have a perspective outside of their body during that surgery and can report veridical stuff. And so, you know, you'll hear skeptics say, well, that's just all anecdotal. We need to do a controlled study. Let's put numbers on the ceiling.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  And, you know.

• 10:23Mayim Bialik?

  As they're being wheeled in, get their signature for the IRB.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so, and if they have an out of body experience, they should be able to see that, right? And it actually completely makes sense when you think of study design. And yet, when you, in reality, you know, when you look at those anecdotes, so often, they're relational. Like, you know, they're noticing their body, they're noticing the conversations. They're, why would they go and look up?

• 10:54Jonathan Cohen?

  Yeah, what's going to guide their attention there?

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:57Mayim Bialik?

  There are a couple of cases of people.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  Who have done that?

• 11:00Mayim Bialik?

  Well, who have said, like, if you die first, send me yellow balloons, right? And it happened.

• 11:05Jonathan Cohen?

  But that was also relational. It was between two people.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  So that's why I really appreciate being a practitioner and a scientist, because I think more scientists need to have an experience of the phenomenon to be able to design well-controlled studies that actually maximize the signal. Because we're creating these designs that may not actually allow for the phenomenon to arise, and then we're saying, oh, see, it's not real. But it's actually, that's not the case.

• 11:38Mayim Bialik?

  If you take everything off the table, then you can say, I believe in everything on the table.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:42Mayim Bialik?

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• 15:52Speaker 00

  But I want to come back to telepathy, you know, because we were interviewed for Kai's documentary, which I'm really excited about. So, we are on fire about telepathy at Ions right now, but we work with speakers rather than non-speakers. So, we just finished a really wonderful study with emotionally bonded pairs of people.

• 16:11Mayim Bialik?

  And not to sound like I'm from another planet, how do you clinically define an emotionally bonded pair of people?

• 16:16Speaker 00

  So, they, you know, it could be a spouse, or a mother-child, or...

• 16:20Mayim Bialik?

  People who have some sort of ongoing connection.

• 16:22Speaker 00

  They're not strangers, right? They have some sort of relationship.

• 16:25Mayim Bialik?

  Sometimes I think he's a stranger, I don't know. Okay, go ahead, sorry.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  So, we had Person A in Zoom 1, okay? Person B in Zoom 2, all right? And they did this task where Person A had to send their positive healing intention to Person B. That was one trial, right? So then Person B would say, are they intending towards me or not? Yes?

• 16:57Mayim Bialik?

  It's a yes or no?

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Yes or no. And Person A, they were either randomly assigned to send intention or to subtract from 100 by 3s backwards, okay?

• 17:12Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, got it.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  So either subtraction.

• 17:13Mayim Bialik?

  Yes.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  Or intention.

• 17:14Mayim Bialik?

  Okay.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  And there were 10 trials, right? Randomly alternating between intention and subtraction.

• 17:21Mayim Bialik?

  Which decreases the possibility for a false positive, because it's not just a 50%.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  Well, it is a 50%, because Person B...

• 17:29Mayim Bialik?

  It's a 50% for the yes/no?

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, but...

• 17:32Mayim Bialik?

  But the information coming in.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  You needed the distractor.

• 17:34Mayim Bialik?

  Right, okay, got it.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So, so then, you know, Person B guesses 10 times, and then you switch. So Person B is doing it, and then Person A is doing it. So we did this with 100 pairs of people, so 200 total, and we saw statistically significant, above-chance accuracy that the people were able to guess when their partner was intending or not intending. So, we're so excited about this.

• 18:05Jonathan Cohen?

  Can we join the study?

• 18:06Speaker 00

  So, so the study is now, we have our 100 people, but we are trying to get funding now so that we can do the next steps. Because if you think about it, we're not sure, let's say it's a successful trial, is it because Person A is really good at intending towards Person B, or is it because Person B is actually incredibly perceptive and can pick it up? And so, our follow-up studies are going to look at having the top performers repeat that task multiple times, see if it changes over time.

• 18:42Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, but also, the next, sorry, the next thing that I think of is, I mean, this is how we find who's best at something. If you do this with, I'm going to make up a number, you do this with 1,000 people, you might eventually, I mean, or one might, right? Find people who are good at this and can generalize. Those are the people that, in theory, are tapping into something bigger than even just their connection with their partner.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  That's right. And we want to study the signal. So, we want, we do want to pick the talents for this type of research. So, you know, we want to see, does it change over time? Can it be trained? We're going to have the pairs also do a mind-matter interaction task to see if, you know, maybe some of them are better, maybe the better intenders are actually really good at PK versus the perceivers. We're also going to be looking at EEG and eventually FMRI. So, we're very, very excited about this. And I'm working on developing the Telepathy Ability and Experience Questionnaire, because we don't really have a good questionnaire

• 19:54Speaker 00

  right now to look at the breadth of people's experience of that. They just say, have you had telepathy? But telepathy shows up, and maybe you've seen this in the non-speakers, it can show up with symbols, it can show up as words. So, it's not like, you know, I'm thinking, I would like a turkey sandwich for lunch, and you hear, oh, I would like a turkey sandwich for lunch. It's not, it doesn't work actually like that.

• 20:22Jonathan Cohen?

  Someone else might just get a hunger cue.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  Right, exactly. So...

• 20:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Or like seeing a turkey cross the street.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then the other thing we're really excited about is we're creating a telepathy evidence map, because people don't know all the evidence that already exists that telepathy is a real phenomenon, so that we can just have one very accessible place where people can go and say, oh, look, these hundreds of studies that have evaluated this.

• 20:50Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, you first, your team first reached out after we had an interview with a neuroscientist who was almost furious at the notion that telepathy exists, because he says it's been studied in the 70s, and it's just been debunked over and over again.

• 21:07Speaker 00

  False, totally false.

• 21:09Jonathan Cohen?

  So, can you explain why that's false?

• 21:13Speaker 00

  From a very kind perspective, I would just say that they actually don't know the literature that exists, the multiple studies, meta-analyses that have been done that show a positive, significant effect of people able, even in the lab. So, I mean, forget about the thousands and thousands of anecdotes. So, these are in-lab, you know, rigorously controlled experiments showing that, yes, people can get telepathic information.

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Awake and asleep. There have been actually sleep studies done where people get telepathic information. And these studies are ongoing.

• 21:56Jonathan Cohen?

  We telepathically communicated after six years of not speaking to one another.

• 22:00Mayim Bialik?

  That's not how I, that's not how I perceived it.

• 22:03Jonathan Cohen?

  Okay, I'm gonna tell the story very briefly, because some people have heard it. And you're gonna tell me if this is telepathic or not.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 22:09Jonathan Cohen?

  Ready?

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:10Mayim Bialik?

  You're the judge, jury, and executioner of telepathy.

• 22:13Jonathan Cohen?

  Mayim and I were, met 15 years ago. And we were close, family friends. We each had, were married to different people, had kids. Our kids had playdates in this very house. Drifted apart, didn't speak for more than six years.

• 22:29Mayim Bialik?

  He moved back to Toronto.

• 22:29Jonathan Cohen?

  I moved back to Toronto. Unbeknownst to her, I had moved back, she knew I moved back to Toronto, didn't know I had come back to the US.

• 22:36Mayim Bialik?

  The man can't tell a quick story.

• 22:39Jonathan Cohen?

  This is, I have 30 seconds in here, people. Clock is ticking. Okay. I am in, I'm developing a project. And I'm working on this like, big content plan that needs a neuroscientist. And I'm literally saying to multiple people, there's like, a room of 20 people. And we're making a list of people who could potentially communicate the breadth of information we needed. And I was like, you know what? Mayim, my old friend, is hippie enough and a neuroscientist. She's into these types of things. She would be the perfect person. Also, we were talking about Michael Singer's book, The Untethered Soul. And that book is the perfect introduction, in my opinion, to the world of mindfulness for people who have just never experienced any of it before.

• 23:23Jonathan Cohen?

  So for two days, I'm talking about Michael Singer, I'm talking about Mayim. I'm like, you know, I don't want to reach out to her, because I don't want to make this a weird ask. We haven't connected in a long time. So for two days, Mayim and Michael Singer. And then, you can tell your side.

• 23:37Mayim Bialik?

  My side of the story was, I had to have vocal cord surgery. And that means that you can't speak, you know, for quite some time. And you're on total vocal rest. And so after my surgery, I was gonna be spending some time in Ojai, like, away from my kids, who were young at the time. Their dad was gonna take care of them, because it was very challenging, you know, to not be able to speak, or especially around little ones. And I decided to gather some books to read in that time, because I'd be by myself. And I love reading and don't have enough time to read. So I'm looking on my bookshelf, and I see this book by Peter Levine that Jonathan Cohen had given me, that I had never read. And it had been years before. And I thought, you know what?

• 24:21Mayim Bialik?

  I'm recovering from this surgery, I'm gonna have nothing but time. It's Peter Levine, it's a book about trauma, the body holding trauma. Yeah, it's a great book. And I figured, you know, I'm gonna read it. And at the time, I also, I actually can't remember, I had been turned on to Michael Singer's book, and The Untethered Soul. And I thought it had maybe been a year since I had spoken to Jonathan. It had been six years. And I go to email him, I didn't even know if his email address still worked. And I said, I just randomly picked up this book that you had given me to read. And I just thought I would say hi. And also, have you read Untethered Soul by Michael Singer? Because I just read it, and I just like, I had to ask you that.

• 25:01Jonathan Cohen?

  This email arrives on the Saturday after the first, after the Thursday and Friday that I had been doing what I had just described. So you tell us.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  100%. 100%. I mean, we could run the stats on that. Like, the probability of that happening is so minuscule, right?

• 25:20Mayim Bialik?

  And that's why we're meant to make each other miserable.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  That's beautiful.

• 25:24Jonathan Cohen?

  So who incepted who in this scenario? Who sent the communication path?

• 25:29Speaker 00

  This is his favorite question. I would say that your intending to connect with her probably stimulated that.

• 25:36Mayim Bialik?

  You win.

• 25:37Jonathan Cohen?

  So my intention was picked up by her, which then made her reach for the Peter Levine book that I had planted seven years before.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, and if it wasn't that book, you probably would have come to mind. You know, she would have said, oh, I remember this guy, you know.

• 25:57Jonathan Cohen?

  Or she would have done the Michael Singer, but it's like, the Michael Singer plus Peter, like, the number of factors.

• 26:03Mayim Bialik?

  It's really crazy. Anyway, that's our special synchronicity incepting story.

• 26:10Jonathan Cohen?

  Well, now we have proof.

• 26:11Mayim Bialik?

  In your work, you obviously are tackling channeling, which I honestly, you know, didn't understand, is this gigantic umbrella, right? That all these other things fall under. I would imagine you kind of can't help yourself when people start talking about, you know, extrasensory perception, non-human intelligence, even UAPs, right? Do you feel connected to receiving information about kind of everything that falls under this umbrella?

• 26:40Speaker 00

  I do, and it's probably one of the toughest parts of my job, is, you know, I only have so much bandwidth, and our team only has so much bandwidth. How do we pick and choose what we're actually going to be doing our studies on? But more recently, you know, there's this whole UAP renaissance. And what I also noticed with, you know, besides kind of the mainstream UAP disclosure piece, in the trans-channeling domain, there were so many more trans-channelers saying, hey, my source, this being coming through me is actually an extraterrestrial.

• 27:18Mayim Bialik?

  Nope, that makes me uncomfortable.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. Isn't that wild?

• 27:22Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, that's kind of wild.

• 27:23Speaker 00

  I know.

• 27:24Jonathan Cohen?

  What do you make of this?

• 27:25Mayim Bialik?

  I just got hot, I don't like it.

• 27:27Jonathan Cohen?

  What does that say? What does that mean? We don't know what your noetic signature is.

• 27:30Mayim Bialik?

  No one knows, we're never gonna know.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Do you want to go there? Because I could totally go there.

• 27:35Jonathan Cohen?

  Let's go there.

• 27:35Speaker 00

  Okay. The intersection of UAP in the mainstream, more and more trans-channelers saying, hey, my source is actually an ET. That was very curious to me. So I wanted to actually be able to formally stud it, study it in some way.

• 27:52Mayim Bialik?

  The other explanation is that you're cutting into a cross-section of some sort of disconnection from, you know, reality, that you might be seeing an overlapping Venn diagram of. I'm just being skeptical. I mean, I'm just...

• 28:06Jonathan Cohen?

  That's your role here.

• 28:07Mayim Bialik?

  No, but you see what I'm saying? It's kind of like, you know, you could be seeing the Venn diagram overlap.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. And it may be that the trans-channelers are just picking up what's kind of in the general population and saying, oh, well, actually, my source is this. So we did one study where we collated already-channeled content, where the channeler believed that extraterrestrials were the source. So we had like, over 6,000 pages that we collated. And then we compared that to UFODEX, which is like, a million pages of UAP documents, like, military documents, like mainstream disclosure documents. And we asked 10 questions, you know, like, why are you, why do you care about us?

• 28:58Speaker 00

  You know, how do you travel? When's disclosure happening? We asked 10 questions of those two different data sets and did semantic correspondence. So, you know, AI language model analyses. And remarkably, there were, they were quite aligned, which kind of surprised me. Because I would expect that the trans-channeling material would not reflect kind of the militaristic-type knowledge. So that was kind of interesting, but just, you know, retrospective studies are always challenging, because you don't know who the channeler is, and you can't ask the questions you want to ask.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  So then I did a prospective study, where I actually got three channelers who I really trusted and knew were legit, and who agreed that, yes, I will intend to connect with an extraterrestrial in this way.

• 29:58Mayim Bialik?

  Were you at those sessions?

• 30:00Speaker 00

  I did all 30 sessions. So we had a structured interview. You know, we used a focus group to come up with our structured interview questions.

• 30:09Mayim Bialik?

  I'm like, what would I wear if I were the doctor and I got to be in the room? Like, what do you wear when you're gonna be with someone who's channeling an alien? Go ahead, sorry, listening.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  Channeler A, I would say, okay, our intention for today is to connect with a Pleiadian. And so we would set that intention, we'd create, you know, a safe space for them to feel comfortable to do that. And then they'd go in, and then the voice would change, and then they would start talking.

• 30:34Mayim Bialik?

  Should I know what a Pleiadian is?

• 30:36Speaker 00

  A being from the Pleiades system. Yeah. And so there were 10 different ETI groups that we attempted. And this is all in quotes, right? Like, I can't prove that they're really who they say they were. But the intention was to connect with the Pleiadians and the Orions and the Syrians and the Greys. And we went through this whole list. So we ended up with 30 sessions total with the three channelers, 10 groups. And then took all that data and we did semantic correspondence again. So, channeler A, B, and C, if they're really talking to a Pleiadian, right?

• 31:19Speaker 00

  You would expect that the material that they share is gonna have correspondence.

• 31:24Mayim Bialik?

  It's the laser light DMT experiment, but for people channeling aliens, yeah.

• 31:30Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm not normally the skeptic, but one could say that the information is broad enough in the common knowledge base because of lore and storytelling that like the Pleiadians are all kind of pulling from a similar narrative.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  Yes, 100%. And so that's definitely one of the limitations, I think, of this type of work. What's fascinating is two of the channelers have like very, very little background of UAP. Like, they, they don't know the lore and they've, one of them even actively avoided it because it totally freaked him out. And so that becomes less compelling, although it's definitely a limitation. So, the correspondence across the channelers for the same group was really quite high. And then if you looked at across groups, across the channelers, that was also quite high too, which was really fascinating. So that was a semantic correspondence.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  And then we did a qualitative analysis to look at the themes and the different themes that showed up. You know, so we had the anthropological questions, like where are you from? And what's your body look like? And how do you reproduce? And what's your population, et cetera? And then we asked kind of bigger questions like space travel and energy and like, what's your purpose with humanity?

• 32:58Jonathan Cohen?

  What is the purpose with humanity?

• 33:00Speaker 00

  So, again, everything's in quotes here. Because obviously, I'm not saying that these are actual ETs and there's no way that I can prove that in any way. But let's look at the content, okay? So, the, the, the material around that was pretty consistent in that there are beneficent ETs from multiple different civilizations who are very invested in supporting humanity to wake up to its true nature, to become more peaceful, loving, not kill each other and blow the planet up.

• 33:42Speaker 00

  And that they are all working in different ways through actual physical disclosure and also energetically to hold space for us to wake up to our kind of true selves, if you will. That is like the major faction. That's a through line. And, you know, there was also talk of like groups that are split off or groups that have been on Earth for a very, very long time, who are more negatively focused and kind of power, control, greed, and, you know, perhaps working with darker human elements

• 34:27Speaker 00

  to make that happen. But that's a much smaller group. And that the larger faction is saying, they're not gonna win. We're gonna win and we're going to support humanity to come kind of into this new, new way of being.

• 34:43Mayim Bialik?

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• 35:27Mayim Bialik?

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• 36:12Mayim Bialik?

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• 36:18Jonathan Cohen?

  What's the investment on either side? So, you can imagine the negative side is power, control, potential resource harnessing. What's the investment on the helping humanity wake up? Some have described like, there's a ripple effect. If we make it, then there's intergalactic consequences of some kind.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Very similar, very similar idea is that, hey, Earth is actually part of our neighborhood and you've kind of been quarantined for a while and now you're to the point where you're getting ready to be able to join the neighborhood. And so, we wanna support you and mentor you and guide you through this transition process.

• 37:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And is there any information about them having gone through a similar cycle or lost something that, you know, they're trying to help us avoid that mistake?

• 37:15Speaker 00

  Um, it was less framed as avoiding the mistake as, you know, we, like, there were so many comments of like, we used to have conflict. We used to have war like tens of thousands of years ago and we're so far beyond that and we wanna support you to slowly get there.

• 37:34Mayim Bialik?

  My head is a little bit spinning. I mean, the, the, the more practical question that I'm thinking is if there are beings who have been around for, for a significant amount of time before us, yeah, I do have a hard time wrapping my head around that the way that they would communicate is thus. And that they would accidentally, you know, crash places, right?

• 37:57Jonathan Cohen?

  She has the teenage alien explanation for why they keep crashing.

• 38:03Mayim Bialik?

  Drunk teenage aliens are like accidentally not, you know, hiding themselves, which is like the whole point of being an alien is to hide yourself. But, yeah, I think that's also hard for me because a lot of the way that we encapsulate what alien life even looks like is limited. It's limited by our puny minds, right? It's, it's completely what we are conjuring in this cultural moment. And, you know, D.W. Pasulka, Dr. Pasulka, you know, talks about, what if we've all been talking about the same thing for thousands of years, right? At least thousands of years and probably a lot more. You know, the, the notion of Ezekiel's vision is the one that, you know, she talks about

• 38:46Mayim Bialik?

  a lot of like, you know, I was looking at your ring and Ezekiel's vision, right? Was this spinning ring of eyes? And like, and nobody even really understands what is like, what the, you know, this is thousands of years ago that he was writing. You know, what does that mean that something is like spinning with eyes and like also it's a wheel, but then there's like faces and like, what are we talking about, right? And so, I wonder if you can speak a little bit to like, in the context, right? Of what you study, how much of it do we get to keep in our cultural, you know, construct versus what is actually true? And how do you tell the difference?

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a very difficult question and I don't think I really can right now in this moment. But I think to address the, you know, adjacent question you, you mentioned earlier is like, why trans-channeling? Like, why would they communicate in that way? And I think, you know, my thoughts around that is perhaps, if this actually was real, which we can't say if it is, is that there would be multiple...

• 39:53Speaker 00

  Prongs of being able to inspire, awaken people, right? So like, the spaceship showing up on the White House lawn is gonna freak out so many people, right? But perhaps hearing a message that is

• 40:13Mayim Bialik?

  I think it's freaking people out, too.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  Potentially, but the message is really beautiful and really comforting and really reassuring. Now, you know, some of these beings, the way they describe their physical bodies are really scary.

• 40:28Mayim Bialik?

  I saw Disclosure Day, it's terrifying.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  So if like, an eight-foot being, even if they are incredibly well-meaning and loving and kind, my amygdala is gonna flip out.

• 40:41Jonathan Cohen?

  It's how she reacts to me every time I walk into her room.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  I'm gonna completely go into fight or flight. And so, it's like a slow exposure therapy from multiple different avenues. There's transchanelling, there's the orbs, there's the craft, there's the media, there's the... It's like trying to slowly acclimate us to this idea that, wow, this is real. And, and we won't know

• 41:08Mayim Bialik?

  Until we know.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Until it actually happens, right?

• 41:10Mayim Bialik?

  And then my kids are gonna be like, "Mom, you were right."

• 41:14Jonathan Cohen?

  To your point, to kind of prove this theory, you always say that 20 years ago, you know, we grew up being like, "That's sci-fi and crazy." And now your children are like, "Yeah, of course we're not alone and they may not be here."

• 41:30Mayim Bialik?

  But like, of course we're not alone, come on, Ima.

• 41:32Jonathan Cohen?

  So just in, in that time period, the openness to question something, like, they wouldn't be as terrified if they had an encounter than if the child 20 years ago would be.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Right, 100%.

• 41:45Jonathan Cohen?

  And, and even our media, I think, has changed the narrative between, "They're here to suck your brains out because we're fuel for them that they need because they can't find things to eat anymore in, in the galaxy," versus...

• 41:57Mayim Bialik?

  There's a larger economic threat also that, you know, many people are talking about. You know, if, yeah, is there a way out of the mess that is our planet?

• 42:09Jonathan Cohen?

  Big technological breakthrough opportunity.

• 42:11Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, big technological breakthrough. If there's a way to, I mean, I'm gonna, this is the simplest version because I really don't dig deep into this. If there's a way to travel that's cheaper and better than the one that we've got, what does that mean? I mean, this stuff is like, that is one of the only explanations I can come up with, you know? I mean, you know, the only other thing would be like, it's Big Pharma. Like, it's just fractals, right? It's like Big Pharma's fear about psychedelic research, right? It's like, it's kind of all telescoping, right, into this moment. I, I wonder if you can talk to us, you know, for this last part of our conversation, a bit more about, you know, your, your personal interfacing.

• 42:55Mayim Bialik?

  Meaning, you're, you're a mother, you have two children. You know, what has your experience been like moving through the world? As someone who is in touch with things from other realms, how does it change who you are? Are you a better person because of it? Are you a better partner? You know, what kind of information do you want? What kind of information don't you want? You know, I think of the movie Arrival, I mean, there's so many references, you know, to this notion of a timeline, right, that is not linear. But what if you're getting information about your health, your children? Like, what does that look like for you practically?

• 43:32Speaker 00

  I feel like channeling in my life has exponentially improved my quality of life on just every single level. And there is a deeper sense of ease and trust around the unfoldment of my life and my life choices. And if I had to pick one thing, it would be around decision-making. It is, it can be so overwhelming to make life decisions and to have access to this multiple ways of knowing to help guide me in terms of, okay, well, what's the next best step for me right now?

• 44:15Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, it's the best use of this kind of skill, right?

• 44:18Speaker 00

  100%. And then very closely tied with that would be the energetic management. Because I too am deeply sensitive and especially to other people's emotions. And having the skills to be able to manage that has dramatically improved my health. And, you know, I, I share this with my children. My eldest is, was, when he was younger, he was like, you know, "No, thanks, Mom, go away," you know? But as he's become older, he's definitely become more into it. And my youngest, who's 13 now, is like, all in. And we, every morning before he leaves to school, we do our little exercise together that just takes a couple minutes.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  And every night before we go to bed, we do the same thing.

• 45:05Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  And the other day, it was so, so precious and sweet, he came to me and was sharing about a child in his class who was having trouble. And he's like, "Mama, he doesn't have..." We call it the ease, our little exercise. "He doesn't have the ease, so he doesn't know, you know, how to manage that." It was so, I mean, like, I was just weeping joy. Because he's growing up with, you know, tools that not everybody has. And it has really helped. He perceives it as helping him, which I really love that.

• 45:42Jonathan Cohen?

  That's very special.

• 45:45Jonathan Cohen?

  I want to touch on two things before our time wraps with you. The first is about Reiki sessions, which I think will lead us into the next part. You did a study talking about hands-on healing, which is an interest of mine, and that people have a connection to some sort of helpful, call it angel or spirit guide during that. Can you describe a little bit of, of that research?

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, so we've done a number of energy medicine studies. And so, those are really fun. And we've found some positive clinical outcomes from those studies. One was with multiple different types of energy healers with 200 people with hand and wrist pain. And so, they had, you know, reduction in pain immediately after the session and then three weeks later. And then we did a follow-up with just Reiki practitioners. And people had different types. They had anxiety, depression, chronic pain, stuff like that. So we see positive clinical outcomes, usually across the board. Even though the effect sizes are small,

• 46:53Speaker 00

  we do see clinical benefit from many energy medicine trials.

• 46:58Mayim Bialik?

  There's a participant role as well. Because the hardest study to do is people who don't believe and don't want to believe. Can you force them to get better anyway? That's very hard to measure.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  It is, although we do look at expectancy. And, you know, for the most part, what we find is that expectancy doesn't matter. So even though they believe, if they believe in it or if they don't believe in it, they still have positive clinical outcomes. So that's really interesting.

• 47:26Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  So the big question in energy medicine and Reiki is, how the heck does it work? We have no idea how it works.

• 47:35Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and some of the Bangston research, obviously, pretty significant paper that came out about, you know, basically the Bangston method on cancerous, you know, cells. Yeah, with mice. There's also some in human, in human cells that they're doing, obviously in the dish, not in vivo. But, you know, to me, those are, those are fascinating openings to conversations about what is electromagnetic frequency, right? Like, what is going on? Can that be directed? Can that be harnessed?

• 48:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's fascinating. So in that first study with the 200 people, we, you know, it was a bit of a fishing expedition because we had so many different... We had Q and G, we had water on the practitioner and the participant. So we could see what was, if the water was changing. We actually saw a change in the water bond during that compared to control water. And so, we did physiology. And so, one of the many ways we attempted to look at mechanism was we also had a clairvoyant seer sitting in the room observing the session.

• 48:37Mayim Bialik?

  Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  So, that wasn't the only measure we did, but it was one of the many, right? Which kind of leads to what you're talking about. Sorry, that was, I wanted to give the context because, so that people are, "Oh, look at these crazy people just doing clairvoyant seers." We did all the usual type of normal measures. And we had the clairvoyant seer that was observing each of the sessions. How's the energy moving? Like, could they see it move? What color was it? What was happening? What was in the space? And so, you know, she documented each session in a very rigorous way. And then, what we did not expect was this report for almost every session of other beings being in the space

• 49:23Speaker 00

  according to her observations. And we're like, huh, that's fascinating. So in our follow-up Reiki study, again, we did all the usual measures. And we had six clairvoyant seers observing the sessions. Because we're like, maybe it's just her, she's just, you know, could be totally making all this up. Let's have six seers.

• 49:47Mayim Bialik?

  Independent.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:48Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  Well, they were...

• 49:51Mayim Bialik?

  Were the seers in communication with each other?

• 49:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 49:53Mayim Bialik?

  No, that's what I mean.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  But they were in the same room.

• 49:55Mayim Bialik?

  Right, but each seer is not comparing notes with the one next to them? They're independent reports.

• 50:00Speaker 00

  Exactly, we were, we explicitly told them, "Do not talk to each other." And do not, we even told them, do, like, intentfully put a protective...

• 50:10Mayim Bialik?

  No telepathic communication where no one's looking.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Exactly, and so, you know, we had videos on the ceiling, like, watching them draw out what they were observing and stuff like that. And again, we saw this same thing. You know, they definitely talked a lot about energy flow, how the, the energy was moving between the practitioner and the participant. A lot of talk about removing obstacles, you know, like, removing blocks in the movement and of energy. And they witnessed, you know, and wrote down beings being in the space. Most often, they described it as the practitioner's guide or the participant's guide. That was the most common.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  They also talked about, like, the participant's family member, like, ancestors showing up. And then... The other category was actually negative beings. So this whole concept of attachments or possessions, that there were negative beings that were attached to the participant that the Reiki master was clearing. And not even always consciously, but that the Reiki master's energy team or non-physical being team was working to clear these attachments from the participant.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  So, you know, obviously, this is very, very exploratory research, but it was fascinating to see the correspondence across the seers. So like, if there was an attachment mentioned, all of them mentioned it. And described it in the same way. Oh, it's attached at this level. It has this color, it has this energy.

• 52:02Jonathan Cohen?

  So six people seeing, six seers, are all identifying that there is some form of energetic entity or attachment, all verifying it without communicating with each other.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 52:16Jonathan Cohen?

  I mean, that's, it's terrifying in a good way because it means that this thing that, you know, this is made up, this like, it's starting to show that there's an objective reality that's behind the scenes of this reality.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  We're seeing this as very early exploratory work.

• 52:36Mayim Bialik?

  But the fact that you're able to look at it at all is, I think, significant.

• 52:40Speaker 00

  Right. I mean, the larger question is, if we're going to study this in a rigorous, formal way, how do we actually do that?

• 52:46Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 52:47Jonathan Cohen?

  In the time that we have left, we didn't really get to exorcism, which is a really, like, it's a, an area that I'm so curious about because it was seen as almost ridiculous. And yet, now you're starting to do research to prove that there may be

• 53:07Jonathan Cohen?

  an explanation to what some of, what has been a very long folklore?

• 53:12Mayim Bialik?

  My mother was very sick as a child. And my grandparents were Eastern European, and they didn't speak much English, and they didn't believe in Western medicine. And they, they changed her name so that the spirits would not find her. And they did an exorcism because that was their cultural community. That was what they believed. And honestly, I don't know what I believe, you know? So, you know, I grew up with this notion of like, oh, that's something, you know, the old country. Like, that's something that they did. But these kinds of things go back thousands of years of people reporting, you know, exorcisms and kind of drawing out, right, of demons or spirits or, you know, whatever.

• 53:54Mayim Bialik?

  What, what is sort of your, your modern take? Under the umbrella of channeling, what, what is an exorcism?

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Yes. Great question. And I'll, I'll try to describe it briefly and simply. So there is this belief in spirits, right? And that some are positive, some are negative. And more recently, you wouldn't necessarily use the word exorcism. It would be called a de-possession. Spiritists in Brazil regularly, as part of their healing process, will do de-possession of people. And so there's this idea of an earthbound spirit. So, you know,

• 54:44Speaker 00

  if you hold that our consciousness survives our physical body, once we die, once our physical body dies, then our spirit, you know, goes into the light and moves on to whatever is the next plane of existence. And yet, for some people, the lore is that if they die suddenly, if they are afraid of death, if they are afraid they're going to go to hell, or, you know, those very, or they have something on earth that they really just aren't willing to let go of, that they get stuck and they don't go to the light. And that their energetics are dense.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  They're very similar to the density that they had in their body. And so it may not be, I'd say, most negative effects from spirit is actually not malicious or like demons or whatever. It's just these very heavy, dense beings that haven't moved on and are kind of just stuck. And they want to be, you know, like, there's the classic story of someone who all of a sudden like wants to start drinking alcohol. And because a person who passed, who was an alcoholic, is like, ooh, I want to, you know, still have some mortal experiences. And so they stick to them.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  So there has been some really interesting modern work around this in clinical psychology, actually. And really wonderful protocols that have been laid out to work with clients to help clear these beings. And they see incredibly powerful clinical improvement, like remarkably, like removal of phobias, you know, very clear physical symptom improvements. It's, I've dreamed of doing a study around this, but haven't been able to do it yet. But I think it's quite fascinating.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  I really want to do a study in people with psychotic symptoms. And what, what could it hurt, you know, to just try to do a de-possession and see if anything shifts?

• 57:05Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, it's a different ethical question, but yeah. I mean, I think that's, and I think, you know, with the telepathy tapes, I think a lot of us had to start thinking about, right? What information are we allowed to have access to?

• 57:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:15Mayim Bialik?

  Right? That is someone else's.

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. So somewhat related, but I really wanted to bring this up because you've mentioned intergenerational trauma a few times. So it's now very known that we have, can pass down our trauma through generations. And so we're building out a project right now to actually see if that could be reversed across generations.

• 57:41Mayim Bialik?

  Wow.

• 57:42Speaker 00

  So envision an adult who has had some trauma, who has dysregulation of their HPA axis, their hypothalamic adrenal axis, right? So their cortisol's messed up or their glucocorticoid receptors are messed up. And they have a parent and they have a child, okay? And so, and then we test them to see what their HPA axis looks like. Then we give healing to the adult.

• 58:13Mayim Bialik?

  To see if it goes out in both directions?

• 58:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 58:17Mayim Bialik?

  We know practically, right, that it does. So like, if you were abused and you break that cycle and don't abuse your child, I'm, I'm using abuse, you know, kind of generally. Yeah, we, we know that that then changes the outcome, right? But what does that actually look like, right?

• 58:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:34Mayim Bialik?

  In a healing process?

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Right. So could energy medicine shift that in some way? So that's a very exciting exploratory pilot study that we're getting ready to launch.

• 58:46Mayim Bialik?

  That's amazing. I, I wonder if you can talk a little bit about religion? Because I think for so many people, they feel like they kind of have to choose. Like, I'm either part of an organized religion and I'm like part of that system and it's the patriarchy and all the things. Or I'm like way out here and I don't touch any of that stuff. I, I wonder if you can speak to people? I mean, for me, like, this stuff is so much bigger than religion. Like, it's so much bigger than whatever we call it or whatever church we go to or, you know, wherever we're praying. Can, can you talk a little bit about if one can have, you know, a religious practice that is consistent with a lot of kind of classic Western thoughts while also still having a foot in this?

• 59:31Mayim Bialik?

  Like, is there a place for both?

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Well, I think my quick answer is yes. But I think it depends how dogmatic that religion is and what their rules are around it and if you're going to align with those rules. And, you know, more and more people these days are choosing spiritual but not religious on their forms, right? Is religion evil in and of itself? I don't think so. I think there are core truths to all the religions that when you kind of distill it down and you let go of kind of the man-made, dogmatic constructs that are overlaid, there's such incredible wisdom and beauty to so many religions.

• 1:00:16Speaker 00

  And the religions that people say are fighting against each other actually have very similar core understandings at their very basic, basic level. And so, you know, I guess my hope is that we wouldn't let religion separate us and we could get to those core values and, and find the commonalities.

• 1:00:37Mayim Bialik?

  It's really, it's very helpful. And, you know, we spoke to Brian Mirarescu, who talks about, you know, some of the original origins of many things that many of us consider mystical and esoteric, which actually have roots, you know, not only in, in the Catholic Church, but, you know, that the church inherited those things from many beautiful indigenous, you know, practices. And they're kind of dressed up in a new way, right? Or they're given kind of different nomenclature. And, you know, in, in my tradition, like, you know, the Kabbalah has hints of like things that we find in philosophy and also like ancient civilization. You know, there's all these interesting things. But I, I wonder, like, what, what is sort of the way to approach it for people who might be saying like,

• 1:01:22Mayim Bialik?

  I believe all these things, but also I belong to a church or, you know, an institution that considers that the work of demons or witches, right? How do we reconcile that?

• 1:01:36Speaker 00

  That's a very challenging question. And I think it really depends on the person. And, you know, I think many organized religions today will have different.

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  Churches or, you know, different aspects. So like, if you are in the like, super conservative one, it's like, okay, well, maybe the one in the town next door is a little more open about this stuff. So I think it's really an individual question to try to find a path that works well for you, that still aligns with what your goals and values are.

• 1:02:19Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you.

• 1:02:20Jonathan Cohen?

  If someone is in a materialist mindset, or starting to shift out of that, and this answer will not be verifiable to all degrees, but based on your experience and the research you're doing, can you describe what the alternative is? Do we all have angels, for example? Or we're all being guided? We have spirit teams? We're all have intuition? Everything's a field of consciousness? Like, can you try and explain what a non-materialist view of the world could include?

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  I think it includes a place where our consciousness is not limited to our brain and body, and that our consciousness can expand far beyond that, beyond our conventional notions of time and space. And that through that, we are interconnected to all that is, to each other and everything beyond that. And so when we hold that worldview, everything opens up to us in a whole new way.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  And so my invitation to that materialist is to attempt as best as possible to be open and curious, and to have a direct experience. There are so many different ways to have an direct experience of that transcendent whole. And then the science and the literature can give a context to that experience. We call that the noetic handshake, when the science and the direct experience intersect. And, but I will say, the direct experience is more powerful than the science, because

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  you look at materialists who have overnight been just completely shifted their worldview, like Christoph Koch, who I'm sure you've heard about.

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  So consciousness is fundamental, that interconnectedness of the whole, and all of the things that that makes possible.

• 1:04:36Jonathan Cohen?

  And that includes potentially guides, potentially, you know, we know telepathy more certainly than we know guides.

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance, and that there are consciousness that exist without a physical body, and that those may have multiple different forms. And so can we engage with them? Can we definitively prove in some way? I think eventually we'll have the tools to be able to do that. Maybe not quite yet, but we're getting there.

• 1:05:13Mayim Bialik?

  We so appreciate, you know, having you here. You have such a, you know, unique perspective. And I just, you know, it's just, it really feels like you're, you know, you're honoring these like generations of gifts that have been passed down to you, but you get to do it in a way that like, allows us to like, read it, study it, like, it's just, it's amazing. Thank you so much.

• 1:05:33Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:05:33Mayim Bialik?

  Highly recommend the science of channeling, why you should trust your intuition, and embrace the force that connects us all. Thank you so much for being here.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

• 1:05:45Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, I was thinking a million things during this entire episode. And one of the things was like, I wish I had been a naturopathic doctor.

• 1:05:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Really?

• 1:05:53Mayim Bialik?

  She gets to know everything.

• 1:05:55Jonathan Cohen?

  I think you would make a fantastic naturopathic doctor.

• 1:05:58Mayim Bialik?

  She gets to know everything. She knows all the medical things, all the holistic things, the naturopathic things.

• 1:06:05Jonathan Cohen?

  I think you could be a naturopathic doctor.

• 1:06:07Mayim Bialik?

  But I couldn't make it into medical school. You think they'd let me into ND school?

• 1:06:10Jonathan Cohen?

  I think so.

• 1:06:11Mayim Bialik?

  I mean, maybe now I could get an A in chem.

• 1:06:15Mayim Bialik?

  You know, that's actually a very interesting question. If I went back to school, well, I think maybe pre-menopausal, if I had gone back to school as an adult, I mean, I know so much more about studying. I know so much more about how my brain works. I know so much more about the optimal ways for me to function in the world. I really wonder, you know, how much of my potential was lost on me? Because I went to school at a time when I was completely immature.

• 1:06:44Jonathan Cohen?

  You were also in the middle of parenting? That's a challenge to be focused on children and school, and like, that's a hard thing to juggle.

• 1:06:51Mayim Bialik?

  It was crazy. I mean, I shouldn't have dated at all. I could have gotten a lot more done.

• 1:06:57Jonathan Cohen?

  Had you not dated, you would be a doctor right now.

• 1:07:00Mayim Bialik?

  It's good my children don't listen to this, because they'd be like, that's a weird thing for her to say about our dad. It's nothing personal.

• 1:07:07Jonathan Cohen?

  Maybe by the time you're 60, you open a naturopathic practice.

• 1:07:10Mayim Bialik?

  So many people need to hear Dr. Wabi's message. And I was literally thinking of so many of the interesting people that we talk to on our Substack lives, like, the personalities that we've gotten to know. And I'm thinking like, I wonder if they might hear her and say, you know what? There are people studying this. There's a lot of criteria that people like Dr. Amir Raz, who, you know, she reached, her team reached out after saying, if you ever want to talk to someone who has the evidence, there's a lot of criteria that materialists have for what kind of studies are allowed, what kind of journals are allowed, what kind of protocols are done. So it's not that simple.

• 1:07:52Mayim Bialik?

  This is not like, oh, newsflash, we have the evidence. It's still very complicated. And there's, but, but what I think is important is that, I don't know, it's like, she's pointed in the correct direction.

• 1:08:05Jonathan Cohen?

  Tell people what type of quizzes they may be able to get if they join us for a Substack Live.

• 1:08:10Mayim Bialik?

  There's, there's different assessments throughout this book.

• 1:08:13Jonathan Cohen?

  If you had to pick how I receive information, how would it be?

• 1:08:16Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, so there's, there's one called the Ways of Knowing Assessment. So if you're asking the question, like, how do I know? Not how does one know? How does my body know? It's literally a quiz. It has questions and statements, and you have to rank them. I love a quiz. So there's a section on intuitiveness, there's a section on embodiment, supersenses, emotions, or directness. And you answer the questions to see which category you are more likely to fall into in terms of your knowing. It's the Ways of Knowing Assessment. But there's other, other assessments in here as well, and other exercises, and it's so much fun.

• 1:08:52Jonathan Cohen?

  I think we should give everyone at the company the Ways of Knowing Assessment. They don't have to share their score, but everyone gets to know how they know.

• 1:08:59Mayim Bialik?

  Sometimes you think an episode's gonna do well, and it doesn't. And then other times, you seem to know that an episode's gonna do well, and it does.

• 1:09:06Jonathan Cohen?

  Lot of factors to be considered in that.

• 1:09:09Mayim Bialik?

  Lot of factors to be considered in all of this.

• 1:09:11Jonathan Cohen?

  That's actually the piece that I like the most, when she described that decision-making, you know, I forget what, like, it's something like, we make like, 3,000 decisions a day or more, I think it could be even more than that. And we're often asked to make decisions that we just can't possibly have all the information on. Like, things change, unexpected circumstances happen, we don't know how we're gonna feel if we, we think we're gonna go to this place. And you say, yes, because you're expected to go to this, like, am I choosing between two events that I'm going to tonight? You know, not every, could be like, oh, you suggested the groundlings? Or then we didn't know that we would have gotten invited last minute to some other

• 1:09:56Jonathan Cohen?

  thing? Like, there's just no way to know all the information.

• 1:10:00Mayim Bialik?

  Take home message, there's no way to know all of the information.

• 1:10:03Jonathan Cohen?

  The message is, though, you can have another set of data, which is your internal world. I do appreciate the idea that most of us have not spent time cultivating, understanding what the information in our, in our internal worlds can actually even provide.

• 1:10:25Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah. I mean, when I made her sad, that made me sad. I got sad that I made her sad.

• 1:10:30Jonathan Cohen?

  I think you may have your empathy meter too high. We've got to turn that down. What would it look like?

• 1:10:39Mayim Bialik?

  No one knows.

• 1:10:41Jonathan Cohen?

  We're gonna try it. We're gonna put mine through a series of exercises.

• 1:10:45Mayim Bialik?

  It would be a lot of tough noogies.

• 1:10:48Jonathan Cohen?

  No, that's different. You can have empathy for someone without feeling and taking on what they're feeling. That is different.

• 1:10:56Mayim Bialik?

  That was my dad's method of parenting, tough noogies.

• 1:11:00Jonathan Cohen?

  I actually think people who are, this is, this is, this is a hot take. People who are overly empathetic can actually come across as not having a lot of empathy, because they get overwhelmed by feeling the thing, and then they don't have the capacity to actually intellectually meet someone with empathy. If you want more hot takes like that, find us on Substack, MindBee Alex Breakdown on Substack.

• 1:11:21Mayim Bialik?

  And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we will channel you next time.