#438 - "The End Is Near" Ex-Scientologist Explains Their #1 New Threat | Aaron Smith-Levin

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Aaron Smith-Levin was raised in Scientology. From early childhood he worked for the organization full-time, as a staff member and a Sea Org member. He officially left Scientology in early 2014, and since 2015 he has been educating the public about Scientology and exposing abuses within the organization through his YouTube channel "Growing Up In Scientology". SPONSORS https://GLD.com - Use code DANNYJONES for 40% 0ff. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://www.youtube.com/@growingupinscientology *NEW* DJP MERCH https://dannyjonespodcast.com Get paid to make clips from the show: https://discord.com/invite/dannyjones FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Why Scientology Isn't Dead Yet & Growing Up a Scientologist 06:40 - Who Will Replace Miscavige? Scientology's Membership 13:17 - The Wealthiest Scientologists & Why They Stay 19:11 - Abuse & Trafficking Allegations Inside Scientology 23:51 - Beck, Scientology Schools & Abuse Allegations 29:43 - How Beck Left Scientology Without Losing His Family 31:54 - Why Tom Cruise Stays in Scientology 38:59 - The FBI's Investigation Into Scientology 41:49 - Scientology's Weekly Revenue & Miscavige's Salary 48:51 - Scientology's Biggest Lie & How It Holds Power 50:54 - Ingo Swann, Remote Viewing & L. Ron Hubbard 52:33 - Helping People Leave Scientology 57:26 - Scientology's Recruitment Center & Membership Decline 01:03:47 - Shelly Miscavige & Sea Org Rules for Children 01:07:44 - Companies Owned by Scientologists 01:13:47 - Aaron's Scientology Protest Trials & Jail Time 01:27:32 - Clearwater Police, Scientology & Sea Org Security 01:32:12 - Scientology's Anti-Drone Security 01:38:37 - Danny's Live Auditing Session With an E-Meter 01:50:38 - Why Scientology's $5,000 E-Meters Can Be Bricked 01:53:20 - Escaping the Sea Org & Scientology's Exit Interrogations 01:58:09 - Scientology's Office of Special Affairs & Private Investigators 02:02:34 - Grant Cardone's Scientology Role & Investment Lawsuit 02:09:23 - Danny Masterson's Trial & Scientology's Role Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:43Speaker 00

  Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Nice to see you, bro.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Good to see you too. It's been a while.

• 1:10Danny Jones?

  It's been a few years, hasn't it?

• 1:11Speaker 02

  It has been.

• 1:12Danny Jones?

  Is Scientology dead yet?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Almost, man. They're getting there. They're getting there. I was like, that's one of the great things we can talk about Scientology, still dying. The most quickly failing cult in the world, although you wouldn't know it living here in the Clearwater area.

• 1:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they, uh, they move in silence, man. It's a, it's one of those things. It's like, you don't talk, you don't really, you see them walking around, but you don't really hear much, except for the people that were the ex-scientologists like yourself, who are like speaking out and making a lot of noise about it and all the evil shit they're doing behind the scenes.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, there's a lot of noise downtown right now because of everything Scientology's doing down there to take more property from the city, take more streets.

• 1:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're like tapped, you're super tapped into all the local stuff that's happening with how they're tapped into like the local little government here and little local economy.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01Danny Jones?

  So like what, and for people that aren't aware, um, we're talking about like the Scientologists headquarters in downtown Clearwater, which affects, I mean, how big of an area does it really affect?

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Surprisingly, a surprisingly small area.

• 2:19Danny Jones?

  That's what I thought.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 2:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Uh, it's pretty much limited to downtown Clearwater, Florida.

• 2:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  And they're starting to have a little bit of a sprawl just because they keep snapping up motels for their Sea Org workers to live in, different motels and stuff like this. You know, because this is the largest Scientology base in the world, there's actually like a bunch of different levels of Scientology organizations at the Clearwater base, and Miscavige likes to keep them all separate in their living quarters. So even though there's only, I don't know, 1,600, 1,700 workers, you know, he has like five different apartment complexes and motels, any hotels that he's by, because he doesn't want them all living together. Like he, he wants to keep the different echelons of organizations separate so they don't fraternize and mingle. It's one of the ways to keep everyone under control and to keep disaffection from spreading quickly, if, you know, you know what I mean?

• 3:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Okay. So it feels like Scientology has a big, a bigger influence regionally than, than they really do. But it's pretty much limited to Clearwater's downtown core, which, I mean, you probably know is not more than a mile wide and a mile, a mile high.

• 3:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  It, it's pretty small.

• 3:23Danny Jones?

  So it's been, it's been a few years since you've been here. But so, so for the new viewers who may not be aware of you, how'd you get into Scientology?

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Uh, there we go. Let's start from there. I say I was born and raised in Scientology, but I was four years old when my mom got in. So, uh, my earliest memories are of Scientology and being in Scientology. So I just say I was born and raised. But, so, um, uh, I was four years old when my mom got into Scientology. It was just my mom, my, my folks were never together. By the way, that's why I have the two last names. It's Aaron Smith Levin. Smith is my mom's name, Levin is my dad's name. Some people think I took my wife's name or something. It's just, I've always been, I've always been Smith Levin. And the Levin was never in Scientology. My mom got into Scientology, uh, and she got in, uh, real quick and, and real deep and started working for them full-time. So, uh, me personally, I went to public school until I was about 12,

• 4:13Speaker 02

  and that's when my mom took us out of school. And we did homeschool for a year, but started working full-time for Scientology. This was up in Philadelphia. And, uh, within about six months, we moved down here to Clearwater and, uh, and, and studied Scientology here full-time for a few years as a staff member from Philly. So I was like here training, but I wasn't one of the staff, you know, like, like I was still an employee, I was still a Scientology employee from Philly, but I was studying here. I was like in outer work training is what they call it.

• 4:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  So I did that for a few years until I was 15, uh, still no schooling. So 12 years old was the end of my formal schooling, because everything else after that was just Scientology. 15 years old, went back to Philly to work full-time for Scientology there. Um, uh, long story short, ended up joining the Sea Organization and being one of their billion-year, uh, little Navy-looking guys running around in, in Los Angeles.

• 5:07Danny Jones?

  They're running around Clearwater too.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  They do. But I wasn't one of those guys in Clearwater.

• 5:12Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  I was one of those guys in Los Angeles.

• 5:14Danny Jones?

  Gotcha.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. So essentially born and raised in Scientology. By the time I left Scientology in 2014, I was 34, had spent half my life working for Scientology. Um, and then, you know, pretty quickly started my YouTube channel, Growing Up in Scientology. And, um, I pretty much try to be Scientology's worst nightmare online, just from an information perspective. You know, just putting out the truth about Scientology in an entertaining, engaging way that might be interesting and, and catch people's attention. Um, I have fun with the Scientology content, but it, it is all geared around pretty much trying to do everything I can, uh, in, in whatever small way I can

• 5:56Speaker 02

  to keep people from being tricked into joining Scientology and to help people who are leaving Scientology. And, uh, YouTube's just been a great way to do that.

• 6:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Have you got any, uh, like backlash or any intimidation or any sort of, uh, threats from Scientology for doing all this shit?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  It, it comes and goes, but the, the mainstay is the website they created under my own name.

• 6:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  AaronSmithLevin.com.

• 6:17Danny Jones?

  Everybody, right?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:18Danny Jones?

  Everybody that speaks out about them, they'll make a slanderous website or a fake website about them.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  Totally. Very specifically, they did it to every single person who was on Leah Remini's TV show. And not only did they do it to everyone of those people, they waited until that person's episode aired, like whatever, let's say that Wednesday night, they would put their website live.

• 6:38Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. So AaronSmithLevin.com.

• 6:41Danny Jones?

  They have a team of IT folks who are building websites and, you know, doing all this.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Totally.

• 6:46Danny Jones?

  Marketing shit.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:48Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  I guess you could call it marketing. Um, yeah, no, they've got a whole, a whole team that creates, uh, all these dossiers of, of fake information. And, um, you know, if Miscavige is in town, when Miscavige is in town, sometimes PIs will be following me around. Um, I think it's not so much that they care what I'm up to, it's that they just want to know where I am so they know I'm not about to like ambush him when he steps out of a building or something like that.

• 7:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Like back in the Lisa McPherson, uh, days, which I'm sure you're familiar with, uh, you know, this was back in the, uh, the 90s, there was a Scientologist who, um, had a psychotic break and ended up being, uh, isolated in the Fort Harrison Hotel and then ended up dying in Scientology's care. There's a whole, it's, um, it created a whole era of, of protesting and anti Scientology activism. And some of the main people that were involved in that Lisa McPherson protesting, whenever Miscavige was in town, they had to have PIs with eyes on those people at all times.

• 7:48Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Just so they know, if they know where you are, they know where you're not. And they just wanted to make sure Miscavige was able to move from building to building without.

• 7:56Danny Jones?

  How old is that guy now?

• 7:57Speaker 02

  He's gotta be 65, he's gotta be close to 65. Tom Cruise is 64 and I know they're close in age. So I always forget how old he is exactly, but he's, he's, he's up there, right around there. Yeah.

• 8:07Danny Jones?

  I gotta imagine Scientology's gonna die with him, right? Do you think there's any gonna, is there anyone like on deck who's gonna take the spot when he dies?

• 8:16Speaker 02

  There's nobody like named and being, uh, trained and groomed to replace him. But there's probably like five or six people on deck who probably think they could step in.

• 8:26Danny Jones?

  Who do you think those people are?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Um, well, they're people that, uh, like I personally know some of them, but they're not people that are known in, even widely in Scientology. Like all the famous executives in Scientology are gone. I mean, and when I, and when I say famous, I mean famous to Scientologists. Like before Mike Rinder left Scientology, you never would have really known Mike Rinder's name, right?

• 8:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:45Danny Jones?

  Or before the, the Going Clear. He was in the Going Clear, wasn't he?

• 8:48Speaker 02

  But I mean, um, I believe he, yeah, he was in Going Clear.

• 8:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 02

  But like a lot of these Scientology managers, they were famous people within Scientology.

• 8:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  All those people are gone. So even Scientologists don't know the names of the executives that are helping Miscavige run the show. They just don't do that anymore. They just don't do that anymore. There used to be like five or six international events a year when, uh, Miscavige would emcee and he would introduce.

• 9:12Danny Jones?

  He would walk on that giant stage.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:15Danny Jones?

  With the big fucking eagles and.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:17Danny Jones?

  It would look like something from like the Third Reich.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 9:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And these executives would be introduced by name. They'd be famous figures in Scientology. And those guys are all gone. They don't exist. And Miscavige still holds these events and he still brings out speakers, but he'll just introduce some generic person as representative from international management. And it's some like, you know, 20, 28-year-old person that no one's ever, ever seen before. So my point is all of these people behind the scenes, um, maybe five or six key people. I'm sure they think they could step in and run the show when, when Miscavige dies.

• 9:50Danny Jones?

  Does he have any, is he active at all? Like, I guess, does, does anyone in Scientology ever see him? Is he still sort of like beating the drums, trying to get people motivated?

• 10:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:01Danny Jones?

  Is there a lot of active recruiting?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. There is.

• 10:05Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  There is. It's not working. No one's joining Scientology these days. They're losing people faster than.

• 10:10Danny Jones?

  How many people are in Scientology right now?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  It's a 20 to 25,000. I've had to revise my estimates downward. Every now and then I'll, I'll rerun my estimates in my little Excel spreadsheet. And it's 20 generously, 20 to 25,000. Is it 18? Is it 24? You know, we have a, uh, when you're working with low numbers, um, uh, the percentages, like the difference between 15 and 20 is pretty great, but the difference between 5,000 people is not that great. Do you know what I mean? Like it might be a 25, 30% difference, but we're talking about small numbers of people.

• 10:41Danny Jones?

  Small numbers.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  And we're talking about in the entire world. We're not talking about Clearwater, Florida.

• 10:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:47Danny Jones?

  And this includes all the Sea Org members and all the people you see wearing the vests, walking up and down the streets.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  It includes all the workers, all the Sea Org members.

• 10:54Danny Jones?

  So how is, what was it in the early 2000s, do you think?

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Uh, it was about 20 years ago, and we have this from verified inside sources of the, the membership rolls of the International Association of Scientologists, which are never published. But insiders who've left had said, um, around 2,000, the membership list was about 50,000 strong.

• 11:14Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's been cut in half.

• 11:17Danny Jones?

  More than half.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  It's been cut in half in 20 years. Which makes sense because you see it. If you go into these buildings, they're empty.

• 11:24Danny Jones?

  It's such a weird thing because it's like, if you don't know jack shit about Scientology, you can get around, move around this town and like, never really know anything about it, right? Like, it's like, and it's like, for me, it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind. They're, they're, they do a great job of like, flying under the radar. You don't really run it. There's a little, there's a few like weird things about Clearwater that's like, huh. You don't really think much about it though, right? Like, empty buildings, or like, the little robot people walking up and down the street, or like, the big buildings, but it's just like, if you don't really know about it, you kind of, it's easy to ignore, you know what I mean? Until you get into, like, introduced to some wealthy person, or like, you're doing some big real estate deal,

• 12:09Danny Jones?

  or like, you get into like, the, the higher levels of society around here with the richer people, and you're like, someone will tell you like, just be aware, this guy's a Scientologist, so don't say anything about it, or whatever, or like, hey, if we want to this guy's house, just, you know, this weird stuff is hanging around because he's a Scientologist, and just don't ask any questions, and you'll be fine. And, you know, sometimes that does happen around here. And a, a lot of the wealthy people in this part of Florida are Scientologists. I would say, like, if you, if you were to take all the, like, richest people in this town, I would say probably, a good chunk of them, a high percentage of them would be Scientologists.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  If you're talking about Clearwater specifically,

• 12:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  you know, you could be right. Um, all that big money on the beach, though, none of that's Scientology. But if you're talking about, if you're talking about downtown Clearwater area, you know, you're right.

• 12:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah. One of my friends bought a house, um, on, goddamn, what is that road? It's not Fort Harrison, but it's like, it's like, more to the west of Fort Harrison.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  Osceola?

• 13:13Danny Jones?

  You know, you know, like, Willadel or Hulk Hogan used to live?

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:17Danny Jones?

  Where there's like, uh, so, so it's like, the, the Bella Golf Course, if you're going up Indian Rocks Road, there's a T. You can either go right to Fort Harrison, or go left.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 13:26Danny Jones?

  And it wraps around to Willadel on the left side of the golf course.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:29Danny Jones?

  And if you go up there, there's like, all these huge gated houses, and like, this gated community at the very end, that you can, like, it opens a gate, and you go back down.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Harbor Oaks. Maybe the Harbor Oaks neighborhood?

• 13:37Danny Jones?

  It's where one of the, um, Presley's daughter, or something, used to live.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Lisa Marie, yeah, next to like, Kirstie Alley and John.

• 13:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  I know what you're talking about.

• 13:45Danny Jones?

  She used to live down there. So he bought a house that was owned by Scientologists, and the whole bottom floor was like, this huge basement auditing room.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that, that makes sense.

• 13:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Because that, there are certain neighborhoods in Clearwater that attract a lot of Scientologists. Uh, they call it the Presidential District, just north of like, uh, north of, of Drew, where you've got the Jefferson, and the Washington, and the, for some reason, it's all Scientologists there.

• 14:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Um, and then, of course, you got the places where all the Sea Org members live, uh, in the apartments. But because, uh, uh, here's why I'm, I'm agreeing with you, that in the Clearwater area, if you're looking at the wealthiest people, particularly in the downtown area and their surrounding neighborhoods, you're gonna have a lot of Scientologists. And it's because, uh, the wealthiest Scientologists in this area also have giant companies, whether it's No Before, or whether it's Consumer Energy Solutions, or Postcard Mania, or Nationwide Title Clearing, or Moises Agami's Development Company, Valor Capital. Um, and, and, and so you've got, uh, Tom Cummins has an energy company, Sean Cloud, um, Pat Cloudin has an energy company, of course, you've got the Duggins, who are the only real billionaire Scientologists.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Grant Cardone doesn't count, because he's a fake billionaire. Um, so, you, you've got a lot of Scientology money, right here in Clearwater. You probably got more Scientology money.

• 15:01Danny Jones?

  Who are the Duggins?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Uh, Trish Duggan and Bob Duggan. They're divorced now. Um, his money is her money.

• 15:06Danny Jones?

  Is she the woman who has the museum?

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 15:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  She's got the, is it called the Imagine Museum?

• 15:10Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  In St. Pete's.

• 15:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Um, and she's also the one who's heavily, heavily connected to Trump and the Trump administration, and the former Attorney General. He's, he put her on the board of the Kennedy Center. He thanked her by name at one of his events. In fact, at a recent meeting of the Clearwater Rotary Club, she was bragging that, uh, she goes, "I'm the one who put up the $2 million bail for Trump when he got arrested." And she said, "Yes, after lunch today, I'm going to meet with James Uthmeyer. We're gonna sue Dr. Fauci."

• 15:38Speaker 02

  So she's very well-connected.

• 15:39Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Trish Duggan is the one greasing, uh, the wheel, greasing the wheels and the holes of power, um, for Scientology, you know, with the current administration, for sure.

• 15:50Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:53Danny Jones?

  And she lives where?

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, she's a billionaire, so she probably lives more than one place.

• 15:59Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  But I do believe,

• 16:00Danny Jones?

  But is she here a lot?

• 16:00Speaker 02

  I do believe this is her home.

• 16:02Danny Jones?

  This is her base?

• 16:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  And, you know, she got her money in the divorce, but I, I think she's surpassing her husband as the number one financier of Scientology.

• 16:10Danny Jones?

  Dude, that is crazy. I want, is she the richest person in Scientology?

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Uh, her and Bob. Yeah. He, uh, he, he made his billions, um, uh, taking a company public. It's a pharmaceutical company, ironically, because of how against the pharmaceutical industry Scientologists are. But it's literally where their wealthiest member got, made all of his money. I think it's a public company called Pharmacyclics, and, um, he ended up just making a, a mint.

• 16:32Danny Jones?

  But they just turned the other cheek to that, because he didn't.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, well, he wasn't making antidepressants, I guess. He was making other stuff.

• 16:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Um, so yeah, Trish Duggan, if you look it up, you'll, you'll be amazed what you find. Uh, Trish Duggan, Bob Duggan, they've probably given almost half a billion to Scientology.

• 16:46Danny Jones?

  Good lord.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:48Danny Jones?

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• 18:12Speaker 02

  It has to do with what Scientology's message is to you, which is, you're a god. You are an immortal, all-powerful, god-like spiritual being. And Scientology can unlock that potential for you. Yeah. And any trouble that you're having, it's, it's because of other people. We need to get rid of those people. We need to get rid of those people.

• 18:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Might be your son or your daughter, don't worry about it. Yeah. No, Scientology's like, self-help on steroids.

• 18:40Danny Jones?

  Right, right. I always say this, too. I, I always wonder, like, at some levels, there's gotta be, there's gotta be some positive stuff in there. You know, at least in the early Dianetics parts of it, right? Like,

• 18:51Speaker 02

  Without a doubt. I mean, that's what gets people in. That's what gets people in. That's what gets people interested. It's what gets people to stick around long enough, where maybe they feel they've got too much invested in it to turn back now. It's kind of like how people get sucked into MLM, MLM scams. Like, at what point, are, at what point do you realize, oh, wait a second, this, this isn't gonna get any better than, than what it is? At the lower level, Scientology's very self-helpy. It's very empowering. It's very common sense, tools for life, communication stuff, problem stuff. Um, even Dianetics, you know, Dianetics is, is definitely a pseudoscience, but even a placebo pill can work about 40% of the time. Uh, I mean, when I was in Scientology, it was never really my job to do the recruiting.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  But the whole Dianetics thing, and the Dianetics auditing, and kind of that, um, one-on-one, sitting in a chair, talk therapy.

• 19:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Um, I did sort of supervise a couple of those events for, for first timers. And, you know, they're going through it. It's like, they're really going through it. They're going back into earlier incidents. They're crying, they're sobbing, they're going through the incident again, and then at the end of it, they feel lighter. But everyone feels lighter after you have a good cry. You know?

• 19:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  But, but Dianetics, uh, can be a very effective recruiting tool. And that's an example of, there's a lot of people who will tell you that, how they got into Scientology, was they tried a Dianetics auditing session, and it made them feel better. So, so they were interested in finding out more. Unfortunately, it's a family-destroying international human trafficking cult. Um, that is quite honestly also a sex trafficking cult. And at one point I'd like to get into um, uh, making my, my case for that.

• 20:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  You know, yeah.

• 20:24Danny Jones?

  Let's do it now.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  We won't jump into it right now.

• 20:25Danny Jones?

  Let's jump into it.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  So, you know, um, uh, I, I did, I did a chat recently with Kurt Metzger, who I think you also chatted with recently, right?

• 20:32Danny Jones?

  Kurt's the best.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  And, uh, he, he said, made some joke about all these cults become sex trafficking cults.

• 20:37Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  And I actually said, you know, you know, the one thing Scientology never became was actually a sex cult. Because the leaders-

• 20:44Danny Jones?

  Right, they let the sex out of it.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  They left the sex out of it, right? Miscavige got none of that upside. But there is an interesting definition of sex trafficking. That even if Scientology isn't a sex cult, it is a sex trafficking cult. And one of the definitions is if an organization um, benefits institutionally and financially from covering up child sex abuse. And enabling child sex abuse. And Scientology absolutely does that. So, one of the core beliefs of Scientology is that we are all immortal spiritual beings. Who've been around for about 60 trillion years.

• 21:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  So, your body might be 30 years old, but you're not 30 years old. You're 60 trillion years old.

• 21:24Danny Jones?

  Right, my soul, right?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  You, like, you are your soul.

• 21:29Danny Jones?

  Well, if I'm not my body.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  You're your soul.

• 21:31Danny Jones?

  The, right.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. Scientology says you're not, uh, soul isn't something you have, it's something you are. So like, you are a spiritual-

• 21:38Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  So, so, so if you've got an eight or nine year old child. Well, that's not an eight or nine year old child. That's a 60 trillion year old spiritual godlike being occupying a nine year old body. 10 years ago, that might have been a full grown 80 year old man, right there. So Scientology doesn't believe in children.

• 21:56Danny Jones?

  They don't believe in children?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not your body. The age of your body is not relevant. They don't believe in the developing brain. They don't believe that intelligence or maturity. There's no protections in place for children in Scientology. There's no separate rules. There's no concept of age appropriate material or age appropriate behavior. A child, as long as they're old enough to read or write, read and write, can train as a professional Scientology auditor. Now, a professional Scientology auditor is gonna do exactly what you might e- expect the therapist to do. They're gonna be interviewing you and interrogating you and talking to you about your deepest, darkest secrets. No matter how perverted or sexual or whatever, like-

• 22:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  These are what auditing sessions get into. You can train to be a Scientology auditor at any age in Scientology. And in fact, the, the younger you are, the more you are encouraged to do it.

• 22:47Danny Jones?

  What is the youngest one that you've seen?

• 22:48Speaker 02

  11 years old, professional class four Scientology auditor. Yeah.

• 22:52Danny Jones?

  My god, dude.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so, um, there's, so, okay, so they don't believe in children. And it's against the rules in Scientology to ever report another member to the police. Okay?

• 23:06Speaker 02

  So, if it's discovered that a child is being sexually abused. It's, uh, anytime something like this comes up, Scientology will recognize it as a legal threat to the organization. Right, they're not against it because of the morality. They're against it because it puts the organization at risk if it's discovered.

• 23:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Its members are doing this. They will thoroughly investigate it. They don't turn a blind eye. They investigate it. And they make money off of it. So they profit from child sex abuse. Because these investigations are done through very long and expensive auditing sessions. So Scientology will take everyone involved and order them to certain Scientology confessional procedures. Making tens of thousands of dollars interrogating not only the child sex abusers, but also the victims of child sex abuse. To get to the bottom of what's really going on. And in Scientology's-

• 24:02Danny Jones?

  And they're forcing each, each party to pay for these auditing sessions?

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So, they discover child sex abuse. They investigate it. They make money in the process of investigating it. And then they prevent it from being reported to the authorities. So that's, that's basically allowing, uh, creating an environment where the abuse can, can continue. And this is a legal, meaning legally speaking, this is a form of sex trafficking. Scientology benefits financially and reputationally from the systemic institutional cover up of child sex abuse. So are they running child prostitution rings? No. Do they want kids to be sexually abused, like literally? No. Do they profit from child sex abuse? Absolutely, they do. And-

• 24:49Danny Jones?

  Jesus-

• 24:49Speaker 02

  And I gotta tell you how timely this is. There's a book coming out about Beck, the, the singer, the musician, the artist Beck.

• 24:55Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  You familiar with him?

• 24:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Okay. He was born and raised in Scientology.

• 25:00Danny Jones?

  I didn't know that.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  Born and raised in Scientology. And a book is coming out called The Last Temptation of Beck. And it details, and I, and I have these reports for you. It details when, uh, how when Beck was 15 years old. He was having a, um, there, there was a woman, a 32 year old woman named Lisa. Who was having a long-term sexual relationship, uh, with Beck. And she was a high level Scientologist. She was an OT.

• 25:30Danny Jones?

  She was how old?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  She was 32. He was 15. And, and this woman decided that Beck was like her soulmate from a previous life. And she was living at the Celebrity Center in Los Angeles, where Beck and his friends were all, you know, running around during the day. And, and she ended up having this illegal sexual relationship with this child. And, and it came up in one of her Scientology ethics interviews. And the ethics officer at that time, a gentleman named Skip Press, uh, he wrote a scathing report detailing not, not only everything that was happening to Beck, but what was also happening to his 13 year old brother Channing. In full-blown sexual relationships with grown adult, high-level female Scientologists.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  And, and this was reported in writing. It was sent to all levels of management. It was sent to the executive director of the Scientology School that one of these kids was going to. It was sent to Scientology's central data files. So, literally Scientology has on file, written, detailed evidence of child sex abuse. And they profit off of it, and they cover it up, and they never report it to the authorities. And there's another, there's another ca- I mean, there's another case right now of, uh, a basketball coach. Who was found to be sexually abusing kids at a school in LA called like the Albert Einstein Academy. And when the prosecutors were investigating this, they found out that the school he had worked at just prior was the Scientology Delphian School in Los Angeles.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  So the prosecutors go there thinking, you know, schools are usually very cooperative in, um, helping the police go after predators.

• 27:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  For the first time ever, he was faced with these administrators at his school who were stonewalling him. And he goes, this is, something's wrong here. And then he found out they were all Scientologists and he's like, oh, they're closing ranks. Cause at the Scientology School, everybody who works there is a Scientologist.

• 27:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  It turns out that this basketball coach had sexually abused kids at the Delphian School. And when they found out about it, instead of reporting him to the authorities, they gave him a good reference so he could get a job at another school. That's how they got rid of him.

• 27:34Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  And they, um, there's a currently, uh, a lawsuit-

• 27:37Danny Jones?

  Did they kick him out of Scientology?

• 27:39Speaker 02

  That basketball coach, for whatever reason, was never a Scient- had never been a Scientologist, to the best of my knowledge.

• 27:44Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  He's someone they hired just to be the coach. But he abused some-

• 27:48Danny Jones?

  They covered it up and they recommended him to another school.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Helped him get a job at another school. Yeah. And, and so that, uh, the executive director of that teacher right now, her name is Karen Dale, long-term Scientologist. Uh, she was deposed in this lawsuit and just lied her ass off about not knowing anything, never having known anything. And then the, the lawyers for the plaintiffs in this civil lawsuit now that we're talking about. Uh, scheduled a deposition for, for the next person. And the attorneys for, um, the defendants realized, oh, we're about to get jammed up here. And they, they turned over the knowledge reports that had been submitted on this coach internally in the, in the Delphian School. Proving that they knew what this guy was doing. And, and covered it up and silenced the victims.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  And their idea of accountability is, oh my god, get him out of this school. Let's get him to another school where he can abuse more children. And, um, this is going to be, in my opinion, the downfall of Scientology. Covering up child sex abuse does not have a statute of limitations. And, um, there's a law called the Child Abuse Neglect and Reporting Act, CANRA. And there's different versions of this law in the books in different states. But California, I believe, I believe the prosecutors in California will nail Scientology for their violations of CANRA. Because violating CANRA in Scientology, it's not just an exception to the rule, it's the rule. Scientology policy is literally baked in violating the Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Act.

• 29:21Speaker 02

  You're not allowed to report any Scientologist to the authorities. And-

• 29:25Danny Jones?

  But legally in the United States, you're not allowed to not report it. Like, you have to report it.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  There are certain people who are mandated reporters. And, um, there are tons of people in Scientology who know about the child sex abuse, who are mandated reporters and don't report. And every time they don't report, it is a serious violation for which there is no statute of limitations. And I do believe this is how Scientology will get nailed. Yeah.

• 29:48Danny Jones?

  And I was gonna say-

• 29:49Speaker 02

  And I think the lawsuits and the judgments and everything might be what brings Scientology down.

• 29:54Danny Jones?

  Like civil lawsuits?

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 29:57Danny Jones?

  Is it possible the judges could be compromised somehow?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  I mean, never say never, right? Uh, Scientology doesn't have any judges that-

• 30:05Danny Jones?

  There's people like Duggan.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:06Danny Jones?

  Who can lobby the fucking president.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:09Danny Jones?

  Like, how many people can lobby the parts of the judiciary system?

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, not many. That's where Scientology's influence has to always be suspected. Because the, the power of lobbying and the power of money, you never know. You never know quite how deep and far that power i- is reaching. Now, a- and obviously, she's got, Trish Duggan has an open door to, to Trump. I mean, Trish Duggan has an open door to Trump. Trish Duggan has an open door to the Florida Attorney General. But does that get you a federal judge? Does that get you a state judge? I, I don't know. It's always possible.

• 30:43Danny Jones?

  Now, the Beck thing.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:45Danny Jones?

  You said there's a book coming out about it.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:47Danny Jones?

  Is this his book?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  No. No.

• 30:51Danny Jones?

  So he's never admitted any of this? Does he deny it? What does he say about it? Has anyone ever asked him?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Beck's not in Scientology anymore. He, he announced that he was not in Scientology anymore in 2019. I do not expect Beck to say anything about this. Beck left Scientology through this sort of little loophole.

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• 32:23Speaker 02

  Where the Scientologist in his life and his family members didn't have to disconnect from him, like usually would happen.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  He kind of said, "I was never really in Scientology. That was my dad's thing." So in Scientology, if you publicly depart, you're persona non grata. Everyone's got to sever ties with you.

• 32:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  But if you're saying you were never really in, then have you really publicly departed? It's sort of a little bit of a loophole.

• 32:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  And that's what he did. So if Beck were to come out and publicly confirm that these things were true, I think all the Scientologists in his life would have to cut ties. So I don't expect him to do that. At the same time, I don't expect him to come out and say that it's not true, because he's not a Scientologist anymore. And there's plenty of evidence that it is true, and there's plenty of people who were there at the time that will corroborate that it is true. So what's the point of coming out and denying it, right? So...

• 33:13Danny Jones?

  If you said anything about it, that would kind of open a can of worms for him.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  It absolutely would. Best just to keep your mouth shut and let it roll over.

• 33:23Danny Jones?

  Right. And is it fair to say that he would be incentivized to not say anything because he does have family that's in there and he wouldn't want them to face any repercussions?

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I mean, the repercussions would probably just be them having to sever ties with him.

• 33:36Danny Jones?

  With him, that's it?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  You know, there's Scientologist musicians who still work with him in his band. I think his bassist is a Scientologist. I mean, his dad is a famous music arranger and composer, David Campbell. And he still works with his son.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  And yeah, but Beck was married to a Scientologist for a long time, but they got divorced in 2019, and that's when he announced publicly in a newspaper, in a magazine article, an interview. It's like, "Yeah, no, I'm not a Scientologist." And it never really was. I grew up in it. I'll have a lot of friends with it. It was kind of my dad's thing. But no, Beck was very much a Scientologist.

• 34:12Danny Jones?

  I wonder all the time, like, is it possible that Tom Cruise or John Travolta could just fucking say, "Fuck it. I'm taking the mask off. I'm gonna burn these fuckers down. I'm over it. I'm sick of it."

• 34:23Speaker 02

  I mean, it's possible. You asked if I think Scientology would survive the death of David Miscavige. I actually do. I do not think Scientology would survive the departure of Tom Cruise.

• 34:30Danny Jones?

  No.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  But he's still very much as committed as ever.

• 34:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  You know, they've been photoshopping him out of photos from these events. Like, he goes to these events.

• 34:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  And they actually Photoshop him out of the photos. I think so that he doesn't have to deal with the whole round of press about how much of a Scientologist he is.

• 34:53Danny Jones?

  I heard that he has, like, his own, on one of the big condos in downtown Clearwater, on like the water right there. I heard he has his own, like, car elevator, private entrance to it, where like it elevates him up to his condo, like his suite up there.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 35:07Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy, dude.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 35:11Danny Jones?

  What is this? Busted Scientology, Photoshopped Tom Cruise and John Travolta out of the event pictures.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 35:17Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow, there's a gap right... When was this published?

• 35:20Speaker 04

  26 April.

• 35:21Danny Jones?

  April of this year.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  So that would have been, from the birthday event, every March, they do a celebration of L. Ron Hubbard's birthday.

• 35:28Danny Jones?

  And they're both there next to each other.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would have been at Ruth Eckard Hall in Clearwater.

• 35:32Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  That's right. And they Photoshopped him out of, honestly, it was only like a month or two ago. They did a huge groundbreaking ceremony in downtown Clearwater of the new L. Ron Hubbard event hall that they're trying to build. And Tom Cruise was there in like a hot, bright blue suit, you know, like a neon blue suit.

• 35:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 02

  He was there, you know, waving a shovel in the air next to David Miscavige, and they Photoshopped him out completely.

• 35:55Danny Jones?

  Waving a shovel?

• 35:57Speaker 02

  It was a groundbreaking ceremony. So everyone's got like little golden shovels and stuff.

• 36:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God, that's wild. Just to protect them from any kind of controversy.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that way, that way, Tom gets to show up, rally the troops, show his support, show he's still on board, send a positive message to all the loyal soldiers, but then not have to deal with the fallout in the press of photos of him, you know, saluting David Miscavige going viral again.

• 36:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:23Danny Jones?

  That's funny, man.

• 36:26Danny Jones?

  That's really fucking funny.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he could... Honestly, Tom's 64 years old. He's not leaving Scientology. How many years does he have left? 30, 20, 5, 10, 20, 30?

• 36:40Danny Jones?

  And his kids are in Scientology, too, right?

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Well, Bell is definitely in Scientology. But, and I'm sure Connor is considered a Scientologist. Connor does not live the life of a Scientologist. Connor's like a pothead. Scientologists aren't allowed to smoke pot. Yeah.

• 36:54Danny Jones?

  Have you ever met him?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  I've never met Connor, but I talk to people locally who are friends with Connor. And...

• 37:00Danny Jones?

  I heard a crazy story about him yesterday that I'm afraid to say on air.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  You gotta tell me off-air.

• 37:06Danny Jones?

  I will tell you after. But actually, I can tell you right now, I'll just have Tyler cut this out. We're gonna put a little transition right here. I'm gonna tell him a story that's gonna be cut out of the podcast. So, all right, we're back. I just told him a story. What did you think about that?

• 37:22Speaker 02

  I mean, I think if I'm Tom Cruise, I've got people watching my kids at all times.

• 37:25Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  You know?

• 37:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 37:27Danny Jones?

  But that's like another level.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:30Danny Jones?

  I was shocked to hear that.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  That is wild. It's, yeah, I mean, Connor, I think, look, when you're the son of Tom Cruise, and you're, you know, your dad's, in some ways, you know, the co-lead of an international human, multi-billion dollar human trafficking cult,

• 37:48Speaker 02

  nothing really surprises me. But you can also get away with living a life other Scientologists would never be able to live. I mean, I think it's like, honestly, if the fact that the son... Like, if I'm a Scientologist and I live in Clearwater, and I know that Tom Cruise's son lives locally, is in the community, and is just a regular habitual drug user, that's a scandal in Scientology. Like, okay, normal world, someone smoking a pot, not a big deal. In Scientology, you're the son of Tom Cruise, and that's the life you're living? That's a huge scandal, and yet Connor gets away with it. So I don't think Connor is like a real Scientologist. I think that they're just like, "Hey, just don't do anything too crazy."

• 38:31Danny Jones?

  Get by, try not to ruffle any feathers, right?

• 38:33Speaker 02

  That's...

• 38:34Danny Jones?

  I mean, he is, you know, to be fair to him, he's kind of was not put... I mean, he gets to live a great life, put it that way, but I mean, he's kind of put between a rock and a hard place there.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:43Danny Jones?

  You know, he kind of has to play both sides.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:45Danny Jones?

  He has to help, he tries to live a normal life, do his thing, do what he likes to do, but also like, you got these guardrails, you gotta stay, you gotta live in between, you know?

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Totally. And that's why, like, you know, what I say isn't even a criticism, like, more power to him.

• 38:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Live your life as free as you can.

• 39:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  You know, his sister Isabella, she's a much more dedicated Scientologist.

• 39:03Danny Jones?

  What's her story?

• 39:04Speaker 02

  She lives in the UK.

• 39:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. She's like a fully trained Scientology auditor and everything. She's like, she's like diehard Scientologist. Yeah.

• 39:12Danny Jones?

  And is it true that, like, so is the basic purpose, like, the basic reason that you don't have somebody like Tom or John Travolta or any of these people coming out? Because when they do these auditing sessions, they basically get their deepest, darkest secrets, like, on a level of blackmail to where like, it's kind of like a known thing that's in the air, like, "Hey, you wanna fuck around, you're gonna find out what we got." Like, the world's gonna find out.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  I mean, for sure, everything they have in the files is, you know, it is blackmail material. That's not really how they keep the celebrities in Scientology, is with blackmail. It's almost the opposite. They try to be everything to these people. You know, they try to be everything to these people. And like I said, the message is, "You're wonderful, you're great, you're godlike. We're gonna help you in every way that we can." So when you've got, in Tom Cruise's situation and John Travolta's situation specifically...

• 39:58Danny Jones?

  Use the carrot, you don't need the stick.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 40:01Danny Jones?

  Grease them up.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  I think even Leah Remini would tell you that on her way out of Scientology, it's not like they sat her down and threatened her. You know, they really try to keep you, they try to keep you, they try to keep you. And then when they realize they're not gonna be able to keep you anymore, they're just like, "We never liked her anyway, and she was always a piece of shit, and we're glad she's gone." But they really do not sit you down and threaten you with blackmail. But the information is there. They could blackmail you if you want, and they do use that information later. But they will use that information later, but they don't actually threaten you with it.

• 40:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  And I guess it's kind of maybe an open question as to... Because speaking for myself, when I was in, there was no part of me that was worried about them using that stuff. Like, concern about use of that material is not something that ever kept me in or kept me up at night. So I guess I'm assuming it doesn't for others, but, you know, it's possible. You know, like, when it comes to John, though, okay. When it comes to John, no. Those skeletons are a little different, you know?

• 41:00Speaker 02

  But no, I don't think Tom stays because of blackmail. I think he's a true believer in the mission of Scientology, which is not only to save the world and everyone in it, but to save, you know, this entire sector of the galaxy.

• 41:14Danny Jones?

  Right. So when it comes to what you were talking about with the stuff of them covering up, covering up, like, child sex abuse and stuff like that,

• 41:27Danny Jones?

  how is it possible that the FBI hasn't gotten involved?

• 41:32Speaker 02

  I would say that the FBI has been involved for a long time. There's just a huge difference between building a case and bringing a case. And the FBI builds cases, they don't bring cases. And unfortunately, the people who are the decision makers on bringing cases are elected politicians. You know, state's attorneys who are elected attorneys.

• 41:50Danny Jones?

  They build cases, they don't bring cases. What does that mean?

• 41:52Speaker 02

  So like, let's take it down to a city level. Like, the Clearwater Police and detectives would investigate and build a case. But it's up to the state attorney to go, am I gonna, am I gonna bring charges? Am I gonna, am I gonna prosecute? So I would say the FBI has been involved for a very long time, continues to be involved for a very long time. Continues to be involved, has been involved for a very long time.

• 42:16Danny Jones?

  They got raided by the FBI at one point, right?

• 42:18Speaker 02

  In the late 70s, the largest ever simultaneous raid conducted by the FBI in the United States at that, at that time. I think it was Los Angeles, Washington DC, Clearwater, Florida. And in that raid, that's how they found, that's how they found, that's how they found evidence of all of Scientology's infiltration of the federal government, the DOJ, the IRS. And that's how they found the evidence of everything they had done to frame Pauline Cooper, who was standing trial for submitting bomb threats to US embassies. They had, she was just a journalist who'd written some negative stuff about Scientology. And she wasn't even an ex-scientologist, she was just a journalist, right?

• 42:58Speaker 02

  And they infiltrated her life, they had Scientologists, undercover agents become her best friends, become her employer. They got her finger, her fingerprints.

• 43:10Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  They took stationery from a hotel she had stayed at, put her fingerprints on the stationery, used that stationery to send bomb threats to, to embassies. She was on trial. She was gonna go to prison if she, if she had been found guilty.

• 43:25Danny Jones?

  Completely fabricated.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Completely fabricated. And they found evidence of this in the raids and she was, she was exonerated, so.

• 43:32Danny Jones?

  Jesus Christ.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, but look, the FBI looking into all this stuff and, and the fact that Scientology literally documents in detail the child sex crimes that they, that they, that they learn of. And these, these reports exist in the files, and not just one file. They're filed, they're cross-filled, they're indexed, they're in the data files, they're in ethics files, they're in life history forms. This is, I do believe, is gonna be what takes Scientology down. With or without another raid, I mean, a raid would be wonderful, but I don't even think a raid's gonna be necessary for.

• 44:05Danny Jones?

  Okay, what would happen to Scientology if by the year 2035, there's only like 5,000 members? Would it make a difference?

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Make a difference, so Scientology's.

• 44:19Danny Jones?

  What would be different?

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Right, for the world at large, nothing. They'd probably all be hanging in Clearwater.

• 44:26Danny Jones?

  You think this is the last bastion of hope for Scientology?

• 44:28Speaker 02

  It actually is. It's one of the only last profitable centers for Scientology.

• 44:32Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yep. Yep, the Flagland Base makes about $2 million a week for the cult.

• 44:37Danny Jones?

  What?

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Most other Scientology centers are actually unprofitable.

• 44:42Danny Jones?

  $2 million a week?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:44Danny Jones?

  How do they earn that much money?

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Scientology is very expensive.

• 44:49Danny Jones?

  Just from members paying for auditing and like all the courses and all that stuff?

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Not only is Scientology expensive, but Clearwater is the most expensive place to do it. Cause it's the highest level organization. And it's where, it's where David Miscavige spends most of his time. This is like the crown jewel of the worldwide Scientology empire. That's why he goes through all the trouble to make it look like Scientology's expanding here. That's why they buy all the new buildings, that's why they're building Elrond Hubbard Hall.

• 45:18Danny Jones?

  That's that huge frickin' place they're doing the demo on right now.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly, because Scientologists from all over the world, right? In their little outpost, they can see that there's hardly anybody in their local org. But if they come here to Clearwater, it's like coming to Oz. And they go, oh my God, Scientology must be doing great everywhere else except my city. So every Scientology recruitment center in the world thinks they're the only one that's failing and that it's, it's doing great everywhere else. Cause that's what Miscavige tells them. And then if they come to Clearwater, it's like, oh my God. But you know how small Clearwater is, right?

• 45:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Okay, and you know, to the south, you've got Largo, to the north, you've got Dunedin, you've got Palm Harbor. There's zero Scientology in these other places.

• 46:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Even here in Clearwater, Scientology isn't actually expanding. They're just buying more buildings. And so even though their membership is declining, they're managing to hoard a lot of money. It's amazing how fast you can hoard money when you don't pay income tax, you don't pay property tax, and you don't pay your staff. And your spiritual counseling costs, you know, $500 an hour.

• 46:30Danny Jones?

  How much of that money do you think David Miscavige personally is skimming?

• 46:35Speaker 02

  He doesn't need to skim, cause he controls all of the accounts. It's actually, you know, the, the most important thing to David Miscavige is making sure Scientology never loses its tax-exempt status. And if he was found guilty of inurnment, which is basically self-profiting from the nonprofit.

• 46:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  That's, that's actually what Elrond Hubbard was found guilty of. Scientology lost its tax exemption before because the government determined Elrond Hubbard was enriching himself through Scientology.

• 47:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  So when they got their tax-exempt status for the second time in 93, nothing could be more important than making sure they never lose it again.

• 47:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  So I don't think Miscavige is skimming off of the top because he controls everything.

• 47:13Danny Jones?

  But he pays himself a salary.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  He pays himself a salary. I mean, the last I knew, he was paying himself $100,000 a year salary.

• 47:19Danny Jones?

  But, I mean, you can basically write off every single thing, every jet, every house, you can, you can write off everything in your life.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Exactly. So basically, everything in his life is paid for and provided for by Scientology.

• 47:29Danny Jones?

  What kind of a life do you think he lives?

• 47:30Speaker 02

  The life of a very wealthy billionaire.

• 47:33Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Oh, he's got a team of people waiting on him hand and foot, you know?

• 47:38Danny Jones?

  I was watching a documentary by that guy Tommy G. You know him?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, he came to town and did a whole Scientology video, he interviewed, he interviewed me and Jenna.

• 47:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was watching his documentary and he was showing these, like, old dilapidated apartment buildings off of, I think, Highway 19. In Clear, in like northern Clearwater. And he was saying that like, that has been purchased by Scientology and they're using that as like barracks.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 48:04Danny Jones?

  For the CER people. And he was also, if I remember correctly, I thought, I thought he said like, one of the, one of the apartments in there was for David Miscavige.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  There are several apartment buildings. Okay, the ones on 19 aren't the ones where Miscavige would live. He lives in the Hacienda Gardens on Keene, Saturn, Drew, right around there. The Hacienda Gardens, so I actually went to the Hacienda Gardens with Tommy G. It's just a giant apartment complex, where Miscavige has a whole wing renovated.

• 48:34Danny Jones?

  He owns the whole complex.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Scientology CER members live there.

• 48:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  That's where I used to live when I was back, you know, back in the late 90s, when I was here studying full-time.

• 48:42Danny Jones?

  God, imagine how you can complete, like, if you own all these apartment buildings and you have people living there for free, you can write off, like, a rent, a rent, say they're not paying rent, we're giving them free rent, which is five grand a month. And you can fucking write all that money off on the IRS and you're tax exempt. Well, you don't even need to write off.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  That's what I was just gonna say, they don't have to write it off, they're not paying income tax.

• 49:06Danny Jones?

  Dude.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  And so like I said, if you're not paying income tax, you're not paying property tax on about 80% of your property. And you don't have to pay your staff. You keep almost every dollar you bring in. Like, your overhead is the electric bill and the, the electric bill and the water, and the water bill.

• 49:23Danny Jones?

  They gotta be greasing somebody in the government besides, there's gotta be a lot of people that they're fucking greasing in the federal government.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Well, we already know they're greasing Trump.

• 49:33Danny Jones?

  They're greasing Trump, but they gotta be everywhere, right? To make it work, you gotta have your tentacles everywhere. You gotta have people, like you were saying earlier, people in the IRS, people in the fucking HHS, people in the judiciary branch, people, judges.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:46Danny Jones?

  All these, you gotta have people everywhere.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  They do their work through lobbyists and they hire the best lobbyists.

• 49:52Danny Jones?

  Do you know any idea how much money they pay, they lobby?

• 49:55Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 49:56Danny Jones?

  I'd be very curious to find out. I, I heard that lady Pam Bondi, who was the.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  She was the Florida AG.

• 50:03Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  She's the one, and James Ruth Meyer's the new Florida AG. So Pam Bondi would do fundraisers. Sorry, I'm burping. The local Scientologists would do Scientology-only fundraisers for Pam Bondi. And then Pam Bondi would show up and speak at events at the Fort Harrison Hotel. You know, you know, to support one of their front, you know, cause of course Scientology's got a front group against human trafficking. Cause that's exactly what a human trafficking cult would do. So they use their front groups, they go on their social betterment activities to entice politicians to come and be like, wouldn't you wanna come and support our anti-human trafficking front group?

• 50:41Danny Jones?

  Is that what it was about for her, with her?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  I think that might've been the event that she was speaking at.

• 50:46Danny Jones?

  But, but. Was she ever a Scientologist that you know of? No?

• 50:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  No. No, I think Sonny Bono is the only actual politician I'm aware of who had been a Scientologist.

• 50:55Danny Jones?

  Sonny Bono.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  I don't even remember how he got into Scientology, but he was the one at one point.

• 51:01Danny Jones?

  Oh my god. And was Lisa Marie Presley, she was a Scientologist, right?

• 51:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, she left before she died. She left before she died. But you know, for Scientologists, like, it's better for them if their own members aren't the ones in power. It's better for them if they can use their money to get influence that way. It's almost like you want to have the arms-length relationship a little bit. Like Scientologists, actually, I heard you and Bubba talking about how many of the city council members are actually Scientologists.

• 51:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we couldn't figure it out. Steve was looking it up and uh

• 51:30Speaker 02

  It's because the answer is zero.

• 51:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, the answer is zero. Okay.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  So not only is the answer zero, a Scientologist has never even attempted to run for city council or the county commission. And they're actually under orders not to try.

• 51:43Danny Jones?

  Why?

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Because it would expose one of Scientology's biggest lies, which is that there's 15,000 Scientologists living in Clearwater. It's not true. There's barely 3,000, even if you include all the Sea Org members. If a Scientologist, if you look at the election results, you could see, if Scientology could control 15,000 votes, it would be nothing but Scientologists on the city council. But Scientology is so toxic, that if, if, if one of their own members ran, not only would they lose, but it would, it would expose how many Scientologist voters there really are. So they can't have that. They have to be able to keep lying about it. If one of their own members ran, it would expose the lie.

• 52:23Danny Jones?

  Yes. If they ran and they, and they would probably lose, it would show how few Scientologists there are to vote for them.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  They would 100% lose. Right now, in every election, it seems like the, the strategy is who can accuse who of being a Scientologist the most. Like, that's how, that's how toxic Scientology, I mean, you know, it's, nothing has a worse reputation.

• 52:41Danny Jones?

  All the, all the local politicians, they don't like, they don't like Scientology.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Everybody hates Scientology.

• 52:45Danny Jones?

  They all hate them.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  It's the one thing that brings politicians together from both sides of the aisle.

• 52:49Danny Jones?

  It's bipartisan, just like the Epstein files and Scientology.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  The knowledge that Scientology is a dangerous, family-destroying cult. That's an actual quote from a political race in Los Angeles in the last election cycle.

• 53:01Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 53:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, even the people running for mayor were like accusing each one, who's, who's more of a Scienti, a secret Scientology supporter than the other.

• 53:07Danny Jones?

  That's hilarious, dude.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  No, it's terrible.

• 53:11Danny Jones?

  One of the funny things, one of the common themes on the show, we have a lot of people who talk about like remote viewing and shit. And one of the things that we've learned is that most of the prolific remote viewers were Scientologists.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Ingo Swan, right?

• 53:23Danny Jones?

  Ingo Swan, um, um, who was the other guy? That, uh, Hal Pudoff? There was a bunch of other ones. Ingo Swan's probably the most famous. But there's a laundry list of them.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  And they all still sucked at it.

• 53:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, it probably goes to show you.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  I look at the stories of what these people consider to be successful remote viewing, and I'm like, so two times out of 100, you got something partially right?

• 53:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  I feel like this thing's not working.

• 53:48Danny Jones?

  Right. I mean, it goes to show you that that stuff is probably bullshit, you know?

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 53:53Danny Jones?

  But it's like, it's an interesting connection.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:56Danny Jones?

  You know, and also like the connection to Jack Parsons and all the fucking NASA occult, occultists and all that.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:02Danny Jones?

  How they were so close together. It's just so weird.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Scientologists pretty much know about most of that stuff. They think that's part of what makes Elrond Hubbard like interesting and, and qualified to speak on life. He's like, I've rubbed shoulders with people from all, all sorts of people, from all sorts of strata. And I think, I think Elrond Hubbard even said that like, the feds might have sent him in to, to, um, to infiltrate some of those organizations and see what they were really up to. And also, when you, when you get to some like potential satanic stuff, Hubbard would talk about that openly, because Scientologists don't believe in God or the devil. They don't believe in Satan or Christ or the Antichrist or any of that stuff. So it would have just been like, you know, when Elrond Hubbard would tell those stories in his lectures, it would just kind of be like, hoo hoo, ha ha, look at the funny,

• 54:45Speaker 02

  interesting people that I've known in my life. Scientologists don't care about any of that stuff.

• 54:50Danny Jones?

  Have you ever convinced a Scientologist to leave, like, one-on-one?

• 54:56Speaker 02

  I've, I don't try to.

• 54:58Danny Jones?

  Or have you ever like, like had a direct one-on-one sit-down with a Scientologist, an active Scientologist, and like, really had like, like an open discussion with them?

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Well, no, because they're not allowed to talk to me.

• 55:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Um, the closest I came to something that I think answers that question is I did help a group of friends almost do an intervention with their Scientologist friend and get her to leave Scientology. But that was possible because I wasn't directly involved. Because if, if I were to show up, a Scientologist would just.

• 55:28Danny Jones?

  They know who you are.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Well, if, if they didn't know who I was, once they found out I was a former Scientologist or a suppressive person, they would just leave. They would just leave. But you basically had this woman who was a dedicated Scientologist, she was getting ready to sell her business, sell her house, and to move here full-time, uh, to go up, to go up the bridge, and basically give Scientology all of, all of her money.

• 55:48Danny Jones?

  The bridge to total freedom.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  The bridge to total freedom. And her friends found this out. And they reached out and like, we're really worried about our friend, and we want some advice on, on how to get her to, uh, to not do this. And I'm like, look, this is either gonna go really well, or it's gonna go really badly. And I said, you have to be willing, like, how much do you care about this friend? Do you care about her enough, and you think this is important enough, that you're willing for her to never talk to, like, you're willing for her to never talk to you again if you try this and it doesn't work? I'm like, yeah, we think it's that important. I'm like, okay. So we, we kind of workshopped it a bit, and, uh, and it actually worked. I always say, because people ask me, when I was at this, like, when you were in Scientology, is there anything anybody could have said to, is there anything anybody could have said to you that would have made you

• 56:33Speaker 02

  like, wake up or snap out of it or, or leave? And I'm like, no. And so I don't try to do that to others. And yet I do run a foundation that helps people who are leaving Scientology. Because once you've already at least made the choice that it's okay to look at other information, like, as a Scientologist, you're not allowed, you know, you're brainwashed, but you also kind of brainwash yourself. That it is not okay to seek out or read or listen to negative information about Scientology. But if you, but if you're in Scientology and you've gotten to the point where you're like, you know what? I should be allowed to look. And I'm gonna look. And you're at that point, and if someone like that reaches out, then that's someone, that's someone that I,

• 57:18Speaker 02

  that I talk to. And especially when people have already made the choice, like, look, I, I've actually been out for a long time, but not really. I keep it to myself. I just stay away. I don't answer the phone calls, but I think I want to leave, you know, officially. Uh, can you guys help? What can I do? Can you give me any tips and pointers? So I always say, I will never twist someone's arm, or try to pressure them to leave Scientology, because they're the ones who have to live with the consequences of that decision. They're the ones who are gonna lose family members, who are gonna lose friends, who might lose their job, who might lose their housing. And so I've always said, it's not, I've, I mean, on my channel, I've always like, it's not even right to try to pressure someone. At least it's not right for me. And

• 58:02Danny Jones?

  Because they potentially have a lot to lose.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Exactly. And if they're gonna jump off that cliff, it has to be because they decided to do it, and not because somebody was guilt-tripping them or pressuring them or anything like that. And when they are ready to leave, you know, that's what the, the foundation, it stands for like,

• 58:17Speaker 02

  it's kind of what I, kind of like an informal name for my YouTube channel.

• 58:21Danny Jones?

  So I saw something on YouTube that was called that or something.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a, a channel that tried to spoof.

• 58:26Danny Jones?

  Uh, okay. It was a channel, well, there was a channel that was like making, like, talking shit about you.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  That's, they, they did that to spoof it, to try to confuse people. And, um, so, but your original question was, have I ever sat down head-to-head with a Scientologist? And the answer is no. But, uh, but I sure would love to. I've, I've been reaching out to people.

• 58:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  I've been reaching out to some candidates.

• 58:46Danny Jones?

  We were trying to make something happen, trying to get a, a current Scientologist in here with you.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:51Danny Jones?

  It's not an easy thing to do.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  So there's this, this guy, a local guy, his name's, well, we call him Tampa Brad. But he runs a company called Home Love Construction. He, he's sort of, sort of, um, fashioned himself to be Scientology's kind of unofficial spokesperson. He's got a, a YouTube channel where he only interviews Scientologists. And the name of the channel is called Don't Do Nothing. It's the Don't Do Nothing Podcast. Now, I believe he has said that if he had the opportunity to first come on and be interviewed solo, that maybe after that, he'd be willing to do a combo thing. But that, but that might be a bait and switch. I don't think he'd actually do it.

• 59:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah, there's, there's, there's just a lot of weird people out there, man. Like, but if we actually made it happen, it would be good to have like somebody who's been in it for a long time, like a generational thing, a generational Scientologist. And that, that's another thing. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it seems to be very rare that like, a young person would just have an epiphany one day and be like, you know what? I think I'm gonna join Scientology. Someone who has had historically no tie, their families had no tie. Isn't it true that like, most of the people that are in it, like, got in it through their parents or their grandparents or something like that?

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  I mean, at this point, yeah. You know, Scientology's been around since like 1950, Dianetics was 50, 52, 54.

• 1:00:09Danny Jones?

  And with the advent of social media, and the way that just information is everywhere right now, I gotta imagine it's really hard to recruit people.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:00:18Danny Jones?

  And it's gotta be hard to keep people in. Because another thing I wonder about is like, how many people are like, you know, when no one's looking at night, they're just going on their fucking, on their phone, or maybe they have a burner phone or something, and they're going and watching Aaron Smith Levin videos, or, you know, watching documentaries about how crazy this shit is and being like, whoa.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  Uh, it's basically impossible to recruit for Scientology right now. Their number one recruitment center is located on Hollywood Boulevard, um, right in front of like Hollywood and Highland.

• 1:00:44Danny Jones?

  I've been to that one.

• 1:00:45Speaker 02

  And it's become, and it's, it's become an internet meme. It's become an internet meme. People, TikTokers and Instagrammers and YouTubers from all over the world go by the building just to be like, it's a cult, it's a cult, or hey Shannon, Shannon, the, the, the one girl that works there, TikTok famous Shannon, Scientology Shannon.

• 1:01:00Danny Jones?

  The black lady?

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  Uh, no, that's Twilla.

• 1:01:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Um, Shannon is, um, kind of a strange-looking, short, slightly heavier, uh, white woman.

• 1:01:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  But she works with Twilla. I love how they've all got nicknames. There's Shannon, there's Toucan, there's Lurch, there's, Twilla is Twilla's real name now.

• 1:01:16Danny Jones?

  Lurch.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  He's this giant guy. He's really tall. But like, it's become a meme. Like, there's more people outside that recruitment center trying to keep people from going in. Then there are recruiters trying to bring people in. That is their number one highest foot traffic recruitment center in the entire world. And even that has been turned into a complete joke. By the way, you notice you don't see that kind of sidewalk recruiting here in Clearwater, right? You don't see them with the dinetics tables and the emitters on the sidewalks in Clearwater. You know why, right?

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• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Why? You can't join Scientology in Clearwater. That's why it's so creepy. You actually, you can join in Tampa. They've got a recruitment center. In St. Pete, there's a recruitment center. In Park. Now, Plant City, there's a little recruitment center. In Bel Air, there's a tiny little recruitment center.

• 1:03:49Danny Jones?

  Where?

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Um, it's, it's, it's not like on the sidewalk. It's kind of in like a little parking lot. I could show it to you. You'd never even notice it if you drove by.

• 1:03:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  Um, even in all of Florida, in all of Florida, there's recruitment centers in Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, basically. In other words,

• 1:04:08Danny Jones?

  But you can't walk into the building in Clearwater.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  There's three recruitment centers that I just gave you that are actually all one recruitment center. They're all part of the Tampa work. You cannot join Scientology in Clearwater, Florida. That is why it is ghost town. That's why it's so creepy. Because if you could, it's the, it's the highest level Scientology organization. Scientologists aren't even allowed to come to Clearwater, Florida without prior authorization. Without prior authorization. If you're some Scientologist from Detroit and you're coming to Disney World and you're like, "I want to swing by Clearwater and take a look at Flag." They would be like, "Who are you? Where are you from? Did you get approval to be here? Okay, I'm sorry, you cannot, you cannot come in." Yeah. That's why Clearwater's so damn creepy. If you could join in Clearwater, Scientology would do everything possible to bring as many people downtown as possible

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  because they would see them as a recruitment pool.

• 1:04:56Danny Jones?

  Why, why wouldn't they do that, though? Why wouldn't they make it to where you could just walk in there and sign up?

• 1:05:01Speaker 02

  It's because it's the highest level organization in the world, which means it's one of the most secure organizations in the world. So what I, I'm saying highest level like that's going to automatically mean something. There's a hierarchical structure of organizations in Scientology. Because there's confidential, there's confidential materials in Scientology that only certain organizations are allowed to sell and deliver. The Clearwater base is, is one of those highest level confidential bases.

• 1:05:27Danny Jones?

  That's like the Zen, the Zenith shit.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Where you learn about Zenith and the Galactic Confederacy and the Body Thetans, everything in South Park. That's confidential information in Scientology.

• 1:05:36Danny Jones?

  Everything in South Park.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's confidential. The world knows all that stuff about Scientology and most Scientologists don't actually know that that stuff is true. So, but like your average city-level Scientology recruitment center, they, they're not, they're not allowed to deliver those confidential levels. They don't even have them there.

• 1:05:53Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Right? There's only a handful of places in the world where you can do those. And Clearwater, Florida is where the highest level of those confidential, the, the highest level base of those confidential bases where that stuff is delivered. And so it's also where David Miscavige spends most of his time.

• 1:06:09Danny Jones?

  In Clearwater?

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  Is in Clearwater. Yeah. It's where he, it's, it's the easiest place for him to stay hidden because he can go from.

• 1:06:15Danny Jones?

  Now, he doesn't have like any like, like homes that he lives in. He stays in like the big buildings or like the apartment centers. He stays places where he can stay super hidden.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:06:25Danny Jones?

  Like where no one can like circle his house or anything weird like that.

• 1:06:28Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:06:30Danny Jones?

  That's so wild.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  It's all Scientology-owned and operated and controlled and secured facilities. You could never see, he could be in Clearwater for five years straight and you could never see him.

• 1:06:40Danny Jones?

  That's so fucking crazy, dude.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. I feel like his, his whole goal at this point is, uh, just to keep things humming along until he dies.

• 1:06:51Danny Jones?

  Is he any family members that are in there?

• 1:06:52Speaker 02

  So, his, I'm trying to think, his sister, I think his sister Denise, he's got a twin sister that got busted on drug charges a number of years ago. But she's still in Scientology. And, you know, of course, his missing wife Shelley is still in Scientology.

• 1:07:07Danny Jones?

  Is she still missing?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  They know where she is. Um, she's basically in Redlands, California, Twin Peaks, California.

• 1:07:15Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Danny Jones?

  Why was she missing? What was that all about?

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  I mean, that was honestly a publicity stunt a little bit.

• 1:07:23Danny Jones?

  On behalf of who?

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Um, Leah Remini.

• 1:07:26Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  I mean, she was reported missing eight years after the last time Leah talked to her.

• 1:07:31Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Right. None of her family members reported her missing.

• 1:07:35Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  None of the people who actually knew her reported her missing.

• 1:07:39Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  I applaud the publicity stunt. I clickbait the hell out of it in videos all the time. But when I do my videos, I also explain like, she's the Ghislaine Maxwell of Scientology.

• 1:07:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  I mean, Shelley Miscavige is the Ghislaine Maxwell of Scientology. She's no victim.

• 1:07:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  She's living a life of leisure and luxury in the mountains of Twin Peaks, California. So, I don't shed any tears for Shelley Miscavige. But I do love using it as a way to troll Scientology for being this weirdo, this weirdo fucking family destroying cult where not only does the leader have to send his wife away, but Tom Cruise can't keep a girlfriend and they all have to escape in the middle of the night to protect themselves from Scientology. It's a great conversation piece. And I talk about it all the time, but she's not really missing.

• 1:08:25Danny Jones?

  That's so funny.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:26Danny Jones?

  Now, isn't it a rule where the Scientologists aren't allowed to have kids?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Scientology Sea Org members aren't allowed to have kids.

• 1:08:32Danny Jones?

  Was Tom Cruise allowed to have kids? Isn't that the reason he adopted? Because he wasn't allowed to have kids?

• 1:08:35Speaker 02

  No, one, one of them couldn't. I think one of them couldn't have kids. But that doesn't make sense because now they've both had kids, right?

• 1:08:42Speaker 04

  Nicole had an issue with a pregnancy and it prevented her from having further kids for a while. So they chose to adopt.

• 1:08:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, people, like Tom is a public Scientologist and they're allowed to have kids.

• 1:08:53Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Scientologists tend not to.

• 1:08:55Danny Jones?

  Just the Sea Org people.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  It's just the Sea Org people that can't have kids, yeah. And they used to be able to, and that was not good. Raising kids in the Sea Org is horrific.

• 1:09:04Danny Jones?

  Isn't the cadet, the cadet thing?

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:06Danny Jones?

  What was that called? What was that about? Is that still something? Is that still a thing?

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  Thank God it's not a thing anymore.

• 1:09:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's horrific. That was one of the most, that was one of the worst things I learned from that documentary going clear.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  That, that really was the worst thing.

• 1:09:18Danny Jones?

  Malnutrition, malnourished babies.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Danny Jones?

  In this fucking giant room with flies buzzing all over them, sitting on their own feces.

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  Terrible, terrible. And it's not that Scientology woke up and realized that wasn't fair to the kids. They're just like, this is a distraction to the organization and parents constantly worrying about their kids and we need them to be able to focus on work. So eventually they're like, yeah, no more kids.

• 1:09:40Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. And Scientologists themselves tend not to have a lot of kids because it's so expensive. There's no real incentive to have a lot of kids. Unless you're going to send them off to work full-time for Scientology, which is like, then what's the point of having the kids, you know?

• 1:09:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but you would think that they could use that as like, oh, have more kids so we have more of a workforce in Scientology. If you're, if you're going to have a kid, that's automatic a recruit, an automatic recruitment when they come of age.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  That would be the smart thing, and that's how like the world's major religions have, have grown.

• 1:10:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  The reason Scientology doesn't do that is because their whole mission to take over the world is something they always think they're going to accomplish in like the next 10 to 20 years. So they're never thinking, how are we going to be big in 200 years? They're never like, well, if we all have 10 kids, then in three or four generations, there'll be a lot of us. They're like, oh no, we're going to clear the planet in the next, you know, five years.

• 1:10:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Danny Jones?

  You know, and then the fact that, you know, he doesn't show his face is very strange. Like, how do you live? You can't go out anywhere in the public. You can't go out to a fucking restaurant. You know, you're going to get swarmed with people or people or, you know, cameras are going to photograph you. You're going to be all over the fucking internet if you show up. The guy's done a great job of being elusive for a very long time.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  It's true, but I've always asked the same question about even Tom Cruise. Because when he's not promoting a movie, you never see the guy.

• 1:11:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Anywhere, anywhere at all. So I sort of think of them both living the same way, you know? It's like if you, if where you work and where you live are completely secure facilities gated, you've got blacked out SUVs driving you around everywhere, you can always pull in and get dropped off inside places.

• 1:11:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  You can travel from building to building without going outside. You know, there's restaurants, there's, you know, the Flag Land Base has very nice restaurants.

• 1:11:28Danny Jones?

  Inside of it?

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:29Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:11:30Speaker 02

  It's one of the reasons you never see the Scientologists on the streets. They can get just as good food inside the buildings, being waited on by Sea Org members who don't get paid and so they don't get tipped. So, it's actually cheaper.

• 1:11:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  You know, so.

• 1:11:45Danny Jones?

  You know, it's really interesting to talk to people who work at some of those big companies that are owned by Scientologists and they explain like the way the company operates and how like different floors will be dedicated to like the people who aren't Scientologists and the people who are Scientologists will live, will all work together on the higher floors. They get treated differently, like they do meetings together and they're like, it's just a very weird, weird thing to hear about, you know? It's just, it's amazing that that's.

• 1:12:15Danny Jones?

  Those companies are allowed to operate like that.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Well, one of the biggest companies downtown that had a lot of Scientologists working there was NoBefore. It was like an internet security, it's kind of internet security, anti-phishing

• 1:12:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  company. They do a lot of training.

• 1:12:29Danny Jones?

  I know them, yeah.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  And, and then the company got sold to a PE firm. Like, they went public, but then a PE firm took them private.

• 1:12:37Danny Jones?

  What's a PE firm?

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Private equity firm.

• 1:12:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  And the private equity firm had nothing to do with Scientology. There were no Scientologists there. There were no Scientologists running it. And for a while, Stu Showerman, the guy who founded the company and was the CEO and the president and the chairman and everything, after the acquisition, he was still in place for a while. But about a year ago, they replaced him with an actual, like, non-Scientologist CEO. And very quickly, found out that tons of these executives basically had no qualifications and weren't doing anything and were only hired because they were Scientologists.

• 1:13:10Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  And so they've, over the last year, they've gotten rid of almost all the Scientologists, not because they're persecuting them, but because they weren't doing anything. They were only hired because they were Scientologists. And so you had this sort of two-tier, kind of like caste system there of the Scientologists who were basically valued because they were part of the club. And then you had the non-Scientologists, who are the ones pretty much, you know, carrying the responsibility, the burden of doing the actual, real work. And so you got a lot of Scientologists out of a job now because the ownership.

• 1:13:42Danny Jones?

  Do you think that they, they try to recruit people, like the normies who work at those companies?

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  Some of the companies do. Like, Postcard Mania is a local marketing company run by a woman named Joy Gendusa. They have an actual Scientology course room in their building, where in order to get promoted through the ranks there, you've got to study these courses. I'm sure Joy would argue, "We're not trying to recruit you into Scientology. We just want you to know how to do your job better." And it's like, eh, if, if you're saying the only way to know how to do your job better is to study L. Ron Hubbard courses, it's like, give me a break. NoBefore, one of the things NoBefore actually had going for it, and I heard this from a lot of people who, who worked there, is like, they actually never tried to push Scientology.

• 1:14:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, that's good.

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  On its employees.

• 1:14:27Danny Jones?

  That's great.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  I think they knew from the beginning, from early on, that they had these plans to actually go public and everything. And having some weird culture of this kind of low-key Scientology recruitment would be really, really harmful.

• 1:14:38Danny Jones?

  What a great way to get a successful company. Get a bunch of Scientologists, like, you know, people who think they're the gods of the universe, like, you know?

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:45Danny Jones?

  Be a really successful company. It's a great way to motivate people. Just get a bunch of Scientologists.

• 1:14:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. One of the other big local companies, Consumer Energy Solutions, or something, something Power and Gas, they basically sell energy. I don't know how the business works, but it's one of these operations where you've got a bunch of people cold-calling, basically selling people discounted energy. I don't actually totally understand the business model, but I do know that, like, the executives of the company are Scientologists, and everyone working the phones is just people hired off the street.

• 1:15:15Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  So an example of a company that makes a ton of money for Scientology and Scientologists, but definitely not, not a recruitment operation.

• 1:15:24Danny Jones?

  I don't really understand what NoBefore is.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  It's, it's like training your employees on how not to get hacked.

• 1:15:34Speaker 04

  That and ethics. I shot a bunch of videos about ethics, like, how not to do things.

• 1:15:41Speaker 02

  You shot it for NoBefore?

• 1:15:42Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. I did, I did a few video jobs for them.

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  There you go. Nice.

• 1:15:45Danny Jones?

  Are you, Steve, are you Scientologist?

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  No, but I'll tell you what, they didn't really seem like they knew exactly what they wanted. They were just like, "That, that works." And I'm like, "Okay."

• 1:15:56Danny Jones?

  Is training on how to not get hacked?

• 1:15:59Speaker 04

  Uh, it was like, it was like ethics, the course that we were shooting was, was on like, how not to, like, sexually harass people.

• 1:16:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, so it was like an internal type thing?

• 1:16:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was an internal.

• 1:16:10Danny Jones?

  Okay. It wasn't explaining, like, what the company sells?

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:16:13Danny Jones?

  Because I don't understand what the hell they sell.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  It is, it is security, internet security.

• 1:16:18Danny Jones?

  Internet security.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. So if you, if you're a company, you have a lot of employees, you would hire NoBefore to basically train. Because if you're a company, your weakest security point is your people, not your infrastructure. It's not your IT systems. It's your people who show up to work and, and plug into your IT systems. And so it's training the employees how to detect and avoid phishing attempts, hacking attempts. And so they'll even do the thing, I read about this just recently, because it's kind of interesting, where they will essentially try to trick your employees into clicking on phishing emails. But when they do it, it'll pop up a training video from NoBefore about how you just got tricked and how to not fall for tricks like this.

• 1:17:00Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  So they're looking for the vulnerabilities and trying to...

• 1:17:03Danny Jones?

  That's like something that you would only want to train boomers, though. I feel like most young people understand, you know, you don't click on the fucking sketchy emails, you know? You just want, you want a free gift, click this link, right?

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  Sure. Until you get one that doesn't look sketchy.

• 1:17:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Right. But I don't feel like they're getting any better. The sophistication of the phishing emails isn't getting any better. You know, it's like the phone calls. You get the cold calls from the guy with the Indian accent. And it's like, okay, like, you're not going to answer that call. One of the great new things about the iPhones is that now all the phone numbers that call you, they say spam.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:33Danny Jones?

  Potential spam. So you know not to answer them anymore.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:36Danny Jones?

  I feel like the, you know, that those industries are going away. But maybe, you know, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it's just my warped perspective.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  You asked earlier whether there's stuff Scientology does to try to mess with me. Well, since the last time I was on this podcast, I've spent some time in jail.

• 1:17:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you got fucking arrested.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  That was not fun.

• 1:17:54Danny Jones?

  Thrown in a slammer by Scientology.

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:57Danny Jones?

  How did that happen?

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  Well, it was two separate incidents, two separate charges, two separate trials. The first one I was found not guilty on. But the second trial, I was found guilty for misdemeanor battery. It's almost laughable what it was. I think I sent you the video a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:18:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Speaker 02

  It's really pathetic. So the first incident was, me and my buddies, we protest downtown. We protest Scientology every Friday downtown. And we put all this chalk on the sidewalk outside of the flag building, you know, the big one? And they've got this huge, giant logo in stone tiles out there. And due to some weird thing with when they built this building, half of that is actually public property. Like, you would, you would never guess, but they were allowed to build half of that on actual, it's public property. So we can be there, we can sit there, we can chalk all we want there. So we put all the

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  chalk, and the security guards would come out, all carrying bucket, five-gallon buckets of water, and just come right up to us and just, like, and just dump it right on the sidewalks.

• 1:19:10Danny Jones?

  Wash all the chalk away.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. They wouldn't even wait until we were gone at the end of the day. They would come out while we're there and just throw it, right?

• 1:19:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  Right at our feet. And then they started coming out with, like, trash cans full of water, and then like little trash dumpsters full of water.

• 1:19:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  And...

• 1:19:23Danny Jones?

  So you can find the video, Steve?

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  I'll definitely, I'll definitely send it to you.

• 1:19:28Danny Jones?

  He'll find it.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  And, I mean, eventually I just got kind of sick of it. And probably a poor judgment call, one of the security guards came close enough to me that I felt justified throwing a bag of powder chalk on him. I smurfed his ass. I had to smurf him. Okay, so that was the first thing I was arrested for.

• 1:19:48Danny Jones?

  So you threw chalk on him?

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  Well, chalk powder. It's cornstarch.

• 1:19:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  It's a kid's Fun Run powder.

• 1:19:53Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  It's the stuff that's actually meant to be blasted in the face with while you're running a 5K.

• 1:19:57Danny Jones?

  Non-toxic.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  Non-toxic. The dude was wearing a COVID mask. He, nothing happened to this guy.

• 1:20:05Speaker 02

  But he went inside and five minutes later pretended to have some sort of a respiratory distress, and they rolled his ass out of there on a stretcher.

• 1:20:11Danny Jones?

  Is this it?

• 1:20:11Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 1:20:12Danny Jones?

  Aaron Smith Levin faces battery cha, is that you in the hat? Uh, somebody else?

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, you probably didn't, okay, that's good.

• 1:20:24Danny Jones?

  Is that you?

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25Danny Jones?

  That was the battery charge?

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  That was the battery charge. That was the first battery charge. Look, his back is actually facing.

• 1:20:32Danny Jones?

  It's a boy!

• 1:20:35Danny Jones?

  What, I was just doing a gender reveal?

• 1:20:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, so that instance, I was arrested, I was booked, I was let out the same night, right?

• 1:20:44Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  But, and again, I'd never been arrested in my life. No criminal history of any kind whatsoever. I don't know what to expect. I'm also way too trusting of police officers, and I think everything's going to turn out all right in the end, always, right?

• 1:20:55Danny Jones?

  Uh-huh. Is this the same event?

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's...

• 1:20:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:03Danny Jones?

  What was he saying to you?

• 1:21:06Speaker 02

  I think he's telling me that I'm being charged with a felony.

• 1:21:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  I did not get charged with a felony. It was misdemeanor battery. Okay, so I get arrested, I get charged, I get let out. And I don't bond, which means if you get arrested or charged with anything else, it's a violation of your bond, and you go, you go back to jail, right?

• 1:21:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  All right. Fast forward like, two months. There's a completely separate incident. And this one, I actually, how do I send you a video?

• 1:21:39Danny Jones?

  You can send it to, can you airdrop it? Do you have airdrop?

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  I do, but how do you, it's just a, it's just a link to a YouTube video.

• 1:21:45Danny Jones?

  Just text it to me, I'll forward it to Steve.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:21:48Danny Jones?

  Copy, paste, boom. Forty-three days in jail for forty-three days.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Well, he's like twenty-three the first time, twenty the second time.

• 1:21:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:01Danny Jones?

  Is there audio on this?

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  There's a little bit of audio.

• 1:22:03Danny Jones?

  Okay. I'm gonna put the headphones on.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:22:06Danny Jones?

  You got yours right there.

• 1:22:15Danny Jones?

  Where's the, where's the audio? Oh, there you go.

• 1:22:20Speaker 06

  Pat, I know I could come here and ask you for help. Claudio and Renato Lugli have been trying to reach their son for the last 10 years. Is there any way that you could allow Flavio Lugli to contact his parents? They're trying to reach him. Ow, ow, what did you just do? You just hurt me. You just injured my foot. This isn't trespassing. You're lying. This is the property line. The property line is right here. You just committed battery on me.

• 1:22:50Speaker 02

  All right, admittedly, I'm being a bit of a drama queen there.

• 1:22:52Danny Jones?

  Who are you talking about?

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's, that's what I want to tell you. So that was not a Scientology protest. Okay, that was literally me going to that building on behalf of a family. Who used to be in Scientology and work for David Miscavige as their, um, was she designed his clothes for him? The Lugli family. So the parents are, um, Flavio and Renato Lugli. They're these Italian Scientologists. And they have a son, Flavio, who works here in the, at the Clearwater, Florida base. And they haven't spoken to him in 15 years.

• 1:23:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Because when, uh, Claudio and Renata left Scientology, this is that familial disconnection policy. So they've never spoken to their son again. And they received a report that he's unhealthy, that he's got like hyperthyroidism or something like this. And that he's on a reduced medical schedule, that he's not well. And so that's Scientology's Public Information Center. That's the Clearwater Bank Building on Cleveland and Fort Harrison. And the woman who works at the desk, her name is Pat Harney. She's a Scientology official, works in the Office of Special Affairs. Now, in the past, I've done kind of a funny series of videos where I walk up to that door and I, I have a conversation with Pat where I pretend like we're working together to unionize the Sea Org members and get them out of their billion year contracts. Very funny videos, okay?

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  I go up to the door, I talk for about 60 seconds and I leave. No one's ever approached me. No one's ever tried to slam the door on me like that. And so what I was doing there was, and I was doing it for the video. You know, it's not like I expected Pat to actually help me, but I knew she would be there. And I was basically saying, hey, Pat, I'm, you know, I knew I could come to you for help. I was being tongue in cheek, right? I knew I could come to you for help, getting, uh, Flavio Lugli to just call his parents. Please let him call his parents.

• 1:24:35Danny Jones?

  Do you know that he's here in Clearwater?

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 1:24:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. He voted in the last election. We even checked.

• 1:24:40Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  Just a couple of months ago. He's here.

• 1:24:42Danny Jones?

  And does he live in that big building?

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  He lives at the Hacienda Gardens on Saturn Avenue.

• 1:24:46Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I was only going to be there for 60 seconds. I wasn't there. I was speaking respectfully and calmly. I wasn't yelling.

• 1:24:55Danny Jones?

  Can you look this guy up, Steve? See what, see what you find about him?

• 1:24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, you'll see, you'll probably just see a bunch of my videos about him.

• 1:24:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  Um, and to be honest, I was just thrown off. Like, they actually did hurt my foot. They slammed the door on my foot. Like, I actually injured my foot. I'm, I'm being a bit of a drama queen there, but I was honestly genuinely disoriented and thrown off.

• 1:25:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  They had never come up to me like that before. And I, I certain, I was kind of like, Jesus Christ, I'm sitting here, my fucking foot hurts.

• 1:25:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  And, and so, yeah, I'm, I'm being a bit of a drama queen there.

• 1:25:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:23Speaker 02

  But I didn't expect to get injured right there.

• 1:25:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:26Speaker 02

  And I just reacted the way that I reacted.

• 1:25:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Right. So.

• 1:25:30Danny Jones?

  You could tell, like, you, like, you were about, you were about to, like, really shove him? And you're like, mid shove, you're like, okay, wait, I gotta, I gotta not shove him here.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Danny Jones?

  It was a very, like, the guy didn't even move.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  He didn't. There was no injuries.

• 1:25:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  No one was hit. I mean, I honestly fell into him. Like, it wasn't even a push. I actually fall into him.

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  Okay. And I didn't even get, I didn't even get interviewed or arrested for this. What happened is when I went to one of the next hearings for my first charge, the state attorney representative lady just announced that they were going to be charging me with a second incident. And I was like, what? And, and so they charged me with this. And I went to jail over Thanksgiving, over my daughter's birthday, over, I spent, uh, almost three weeks in jail over this. The judge hated me. Now, a lot of people hate me, but the judge hated me. She hates protesters. She hates streamers. I mean, this judge was saying the craziest things to me.

• 1:26:31Speaker 02

  I don't know what your obsession is with Scientology. Imagine saying that to someone that was trafficked as a child by Scientology. You're just doing all of this for the clicks. That's your prob, your problem is you make money on YouTube. That's your problem. I'm like, holy shit. Um, okay, so my first 20 days in jail was because that second incident was considered, once I was charged with that incident, that was considered a violation of the terms of the bond of the first incident.

• 1:26:59Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  So then I go to trial for the first incident. Not guilty verdict in like 30 minutes. The jury deliberates for like 30 minutes, not guilty.

• 1:27:10Danny Jones?

  God, they pulled a whole fucking jury trial over this.

• 1:27:13Speaker 02

  Right? And so then, then the second trial comes. And before you go to trial, the judge issues rules of what you are not allowed to do or say, or she will send you to jail for contempt of court. And she threatened me so many times. She's, I can send you to jail for up to 12 months if you violate my rules. The judge felt that the jury, the first jury, um, had sympathy for me because I grew up in Scientology. In the second trial, I shit you not. She refused to let me even say I'm an ex Scientologist. She refused to let me say that I grew up in Scientology. She refused to let me say what I was doing there at the building that day.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  She made us cut all of the audio out of that video before my foot gets slammed in the door. She wouldn't let me say that the name of my channel is Growing Up in Scientology. She wouldn't let me, um, say that I run a foundation that helps people who are leaving Scientology. Uh, she wouldn't let me mention Flavio Lugli. She wouldn't let me say that I was there that day on behalf of his parents. And she let the jury, and she, but she let the other, other side testify falsely as to what was even said in the video. If you watched, if, watched the video, me being a drama queen aside, you can see I'm not yelling. I'm not insulting. I'm not threatening. I'm not doing anything intimidating at all.

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  They were allowed to testify that I was there yelling and screaming and shouting insults and vulgarities. And so imagine you're a jury member, right? You don't even know I've ever been in Scientology. You don't know I'm an ex Scientologist. You don't know that I was there advocating for ex Scientologists. You think I'm just some piece of shit YouTube clickbaiter who showed up to insult a bunch of Scientologists? And then when they asked me to leave, played, um, you know, uh, played the victim and shoved this guy. And the jury found me guilty.

• 1:29:05Danny Jones?

  How is that, I mean, I'm no lawyer, but how is that illegal? For her, for the judge to tell you, you're not allowed to give any context around the incident?

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean.

• 1:29:15Danny Jones?

  And what did your lawyer say?

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  He fought it like, he fought it tooth and nail. And she goes, you got a problem? You appeal. If he's guilty, you can appeal. That's all you can do. That's all you can do.

• 1:29:25Danny Jones?

  Judges are allowed to do that?

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  I, I was shocked to learn that judges are allowed to do that. I mean, I gotta tell you, this experience that I've had the last year in the, our criminal justice system for the first time in my life, I have lost all faith in the police and the criminal justice, uh, system. Um, and even if I had, um.

• 1:29:45Danny Jones?

  Who was, so, so who was, was it, was it the Church of Scientology against you?

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  No, it was the state of Florida because these were criminal charges.

• 1:29:52Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  But it was the Church of Scientology putting massive pressure on the state attorney's office to not drop this, not settle this, not, and, and go forward. And, I mean.

• 1:30:04Danny Jones?

  How do they put pressure on the state attorney's office?

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  Well, that's where the lobbying comes in. That's where hiring outside counsel comes in.

• 1:30:10Danny Jones?

  Who was the state attorney?

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  Uh, her name is Morgan Me? And then there was another guy.

• 1:30:16Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it was, it was wild. Even being there in the courthouse and having the Scientology security guards showing up like arm in arm with the Clearwater police. And I'm like, what are you guys doing? Dude, what are you guys doing? Like 40 days in jail for that? Are you, are you, like, no one, there's not, not even an injury. He didn't even, the first guy pretended, you know, that he was having a respiratory distress and was wheeled off in an ambulance. That guy literally said, no injuries, no marks, no nothing. And it was the state attorney that decided, oh, no, we're prosecuting.

• 1:30:53Danny Jones?

  Was that guy in the courtroom?

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Yes. And so the question would be this. What influence was brought to bear?

• 1:31:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  To have the state attorney, Bruce Bartlett? And so like Bruce Bartlett's the actual state attorney, but then there's the prosecuting state attorney was like Morgan Me. What makes Bruce Bartlett look at that video and go, oh, we're not letting this go? We're going to jury trial on this.

• 1:31:16Danny Jones?

  Right, that's, that's bizarre.

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  It doesn't even make sense.

• 1:31:19Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. So nonetheless, I can complain about the criminal justice system. Lesson learned, though. Didn't need that. Could have just walked away after my, could have just walked away after my foot got slammed in that door and my life.

• 1:31:31Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:31:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Danny Jones?

  Bubba was telling me when he was on the show last week that um, he, he believes that the Clearwater Police Department is like, bought and paid for by Scientologists because not, I shouldn't say it that way. What, what he was saying is that the Scientology is one of the biggest people, biggest organizations that hires off-duty police officers to do security for them.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  That certainly was true. Believe it or not, since this incident and since my trials, the Clearwater Police have stopped doing off-duty work for Scientology.

• 1:32:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05Danny Jones?

  How do you know that?

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  Uh, we know from contacts in the police and we know also because we're out there protesting every Friday. So it used to be that every single Friday we were there, Clearwater Police were on station and on duty doing off-duty work in front of the Fort Harrison Hotel. And, and the Clearwater Police would come over two or three times responding to the, you know, couple dozen 911 calls Scientology is constantly placing on, on the protesters.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  And so, so if Scientology pulls a permit and like closes a street for an event, it's part of the normal due process that you're gonna have police working security.

• 1:32:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  That's different.

• 1:32:39Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  They used to hire cops to just do off-duty security work in uniform in their cruisers for Scientology. They'd be out there every single Friday afternoon.

• 1:32:51Danny Jones?

  They're allowed to do that?

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:52Danny Jones?

  You're allowed to pay a police officer and they, they can use their cruisers and they wear their uniform and they're, they have their gun on their belt?

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's an approval process for an organization, uh, that an organization can go through to, you know, whatever the process is for the Clearwater PD. Once you're on the approved list, you can hire the cops to work off-duty and there's an agreed upon rate and everything like that.

• 1:33:17Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:33:18Speaker 02

  That's why, for example, like if you see a high school football, a high school football game getting out and there's, you know, cops working the event, you're like, well, how is this? They're actually, you know, for the most part, work, those are off-duty cops working. Those aren't just like cops doing security for free for no reason.

• 1:33:31Danny Jones?

  Right, right, or at concerts or things like that, right?

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. And they literally don't do it anymore. To the point that they started having to bring in like the, the highway, the highway folks and, and the sheriffs to do it.

• 1:33:43Danny Jones?

  Geez.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  And even then, it's like, I, I, I do think all of this painted like, kind of shone a light on what is the Clearwater PD doing helping Scientology harass protesters? You know, and yes, there was that like, so the first incident, that occurred at a protest. The second incident, that didn't occur at a protest. So me and my friends have been out there every single week, every single Friday afternoon for about three years now.

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  And that first incident is the only thing that any of us ever did justify.

• 1:34:14Danny Jones?

  I see you sometimes driving, I'm driving down the road, on the side of the road with your signs, with a bunch of people.

• 1:34:18Speaker 02

  Yes, and the reason you see me where you see me right now is because until my probation is over, I gotta stay 500 feet away from.

• 1:34:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, shit. Oh, so you're usually closer?

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  That's why you, you see me at the intersection coming off the beach there.

• 1:34:32Danny Jones?

  I see you by the gas station, right?

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:34:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  I gotta be at that location until my probation's over.

• 1:34:39Danny Jones?

  Is it true that they would bust their CER members down the street so they wouldn't come in contact with any protesters?

• 1:34:45Speaker 02

  100% true, yeah.

• 1:34:47Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:48Danny Jones?

  And why are all the CER people walking up and down the street all the time?

• 1:34:53Speaker 02

  Well, it depends on which street you're talking about.

• 1:34:55Danny Jones?

  Where are they going on Fort Harrison?

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  So, uh, because you've got the sand, you've got the sand, what they call the Sandcastle Religious Retreat on the north side of Coachman Park. It's called the Sandcastle. It's right there on Osceola and, and, um, is that Drew or, and Drew? That's next to the library, north of the library.

• 1:35:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:35:14Speaker 02

  So their highest, uh, the flag land base is the highest Scientology base in the world, the highest level Scientology base in the world. But the Sandcastle is the highest level building on the base.

• 1:35:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:35:25Speaker 02

  So you've got CER members.

• 1:35:26Danny Jones?

  So they're just walking from building to building? They're going from Scientology building to Scientology building?

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. The big giant flag building on the, on the basement level there, that's the cafeteria where they all eat.

• 1:35:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  Now, you really aren't supposed to see the CER members walking down the street because they're supposed to wait for the shut. They're supposed to wait for the bus. You see the buses driving all over the place, right? They, they, they, they're not supposed to walk down the street if they can help it. So, um, but yes, and also there's a management building right there, but in the, in the middle on, um, across from

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  where the old Checkers used to be? Do you know where the old Checkers? I don't know how familiar you are with downtown Clearwater or none.

• 1:36:03Danny Jones?

  No, where was the Checkers?

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  Well, now it's, it's a little Scientology park, but basically they're walking down the street because they're just going from building to building is the, is the simple answer.

• 1:36:13Danny Jones?

  I have a friend who does, um, he does like IT security stuff, like he, he, he will, he goes out to like businesses and he wires their buildings with like security cameras and stuff like that. He did it for us.

• 1:36:28Danny Jones?

  And he said he was hired by Scientology to go, um, repair some stuff that they had, some issues they were having with their security cameras and, um, their detectors that they had on the roof of their flag building. And he said they brought him into the flag building, took him all, and he had like three people surrounding him at all times, like going everywhere with him. They were like super skeptical of him, like very, very scared that he was gonna, you know, I don't know. They were like, they were just very, very dubious of him. And they took him up to the top floor, put him in this room or whatever. And he's looking or whatever and he's like, he's like trying to figure out why their camera system was fucking up, right?

• 1:37:08Danny Jones?

  Looking at wires, trying to unplug stuff and like plug it back in and see like, find the point of failure with their camera system. And he said he's in their server room and like, on like the top floor. And he's like, he found this wire going through the wall. And he's like, where does this wire go? And they're like, oh, they're like, they, hold on a second. They had to go outside and like whisper to each other for like five minutes before coming back in. And they're like, oh, well, we don't know where that wire's going. Um, we can't tell you that. Just trying to figure out our problem here. He's like, well, I can't figure it out until I figure out where this wire's going because I can't, I gotta rule out what the fuck this wire's doing, where it's going. It could be causing the whole problem. And they go back out, we'll be right back. They go back, go talk for like 10 minutes and they finally come back.

• 1:37:49Danny Jones?

  And they're like, okay, this, this wire, uh, connects to our anti-drone system on our roof.

• 1:37:57Danny Jones?

  They have some sort of fucking, uh, some sort of like directed energy weapon on their roof allegedly that like shoots drones out of the sky or like if a drone tries to fly over it, it will just like drop.

• 1:38:08Speaker 02

  That's incredible. It's funny that you mention that because I was contacted by somebody who works at, um, Axon, Axon Body Cam? You know, they do the police body cams at Axon? And they sent me a photo of a gift basket that had just arrived from the Church of Scientology International, specifically the Church of Spiritual Technology, which is the secret base where Shelley Miscavige works. And, and this person said, I'm really concerned. We just got a gift basket from Scientology. Is this, I'm worried that maybe the company I work for is run by Scientologists. Okay, so they went and did some digging and they found out, oh, no, no, no. I, I said, I said, you know what? You guys do body cams. I said, I'm sure

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  they must have a contract with you guys to outfit their security guards with body cams. And they go, okay, let me look into it. They look into it and they find out Scientology was not a client. Axon had just acquired a drone defense company that had Scientology, the Church of Spiritual Technology as its client. And that's why all of a sudden Axon is getting gift baskets from the secret church, you know, Church of Spiritual Technology, but it was specifically for their anti-drone equipment.

• 1:39:20Danny Jones?

  No, what was the company that did the anti-drone stuff? Do you remember?

• 1:39:22Speaker 02

  Well, uh, it, whatever it was, it was a company small enough that Axon just acquired it.

• 1:39:27Danny Jones?

  Bought them out.

• 1:39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, they just bought them out. And so I forget the name of it. But they go, no, no, no, we looked up, we found the account record and everything. And then they sent me a free body cam.

• 1:39:35Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  The company's called D-Drone.

• 1:39:40Danny Jones?

  Or D-Drone? Can you pull it up? I wanna see what it looks like.

• 1:39:45Speaker 02

  D-Drone.

• 1:39:46Danny Jones?

  There's a link right below it. There you go.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  That was Axon, that's Axon.

• 1:39:49Danny Jones?

  Oh. I'm sure it's on their website. Oh no, there's D-Drone right there. D-Drone.com. Okay, Axon acquired D-Drone, accelerating the next generation of drone solutions to protect more lives in more places. Interesting. I wonder what it looks like.

• 1:40:08Danny Jones?

  But that's crazy. I mean, the amount of money they have to spend on security and like anti-drone shit, you know, keep people from flying drones on top of their buildings. It's just like, goddamn, I mean, the level of paranoia. Also, that little white thing?

• 1:40:23Speaker 02

  So what is it? Is it a jam? Does it jam signal?

• 1:40:25Danny Jones?

  It must be a jammer, right?

• 1:40:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a, whatever that is on a stick. D-drone.

• 1:40:32Danny Jones?

  So your drone, if you fly your drone anywhere near, you'd lose signal?

• 1:40:35Speaker 04

  I guess.

• 1:40:36Danny Jones?

  Or something like that.

• 1:40:38Speaker 04

  It's like an interference thing?

• 1:40:40Danny Jones?

  They make, yeah, look, that one's a gun. I was familiar with those.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  So that makes a lot of sense. When Tommy G came to town to do his Scientology video?

• 1:40:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  He hired a drone operator. We went over to the hacienda gardens where Ms. Gavitch lives. And we were there watching the drone operator do this thing. And he goes, I've never had this happen before with a drone. He's like, look what's happening. It was like this, this place he could not get beyond. And he's like, look, I've never had this happen before. And we're like, oh, come on, it's gotta be a coincidence.

• 1:41:08Danny Jones?

  The apartment buildings?

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm sure they got, I'm sure they got them on top of all of Scientology's buildings in Clearwater.

• 1:41:14Danny Jones?

  God, one of those guns would be fun to have, like drone guns. Someone's like, find their drone and just fucking shoot their drone out of the sky.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  I think it just crashes it right out of the sky.

• 1:41:21Danny Jones?

  It must. They have this shit overseas in like war zones. You know, where these like counterinsurgencies, they have to have these, these guns because they have these weaponized drones overseas, like especially in places like Ukraine, where they, these drones coming at you with an explosive on them, they gotta be able to shoot it. And even like, like when the president travels around, they have to have, like a lot of the security team has to have these anti-drone guns or whatever. They see a drone coming in, they don't know what the hell it could be. They gotta be able to shoot that thing out of the sky quick.

• 1:41:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:52Danny Jones?

  But like, yeah, that's next fucking level, bro. So.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  Well, I see you got this Scientology E-meter over here.

• 1:42:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was telling you, that's a gift I got from my, my real estate broker who, who got me this place. He got me that as a, as a housewarming gift. Because this, uh, this area is known for Scientology, so. And you just got it working before we started the show.

• 1:42:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you said it wasn't working. I'm like, it looks like it's working.

• 1:42:21Danny Jones?

  We thought it was broken. And Steve, you even bought a new power source for it?

• 1:42:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, we got a power supply. It's a very special power supply.

• 1:42:28Danny Jones?

  It's just been a funny gag on the podcast. People come in and we, like, Scientology often gets brought up on this podcast. It's like a funny gag. I can tell them we have an actual Scientology E-meter.

• 1:42:38Speaker 02

  Well, you probably don't know that one of the reasons your meter seemed like it was broken is because you've got this thing plugged into it. And this normally is not used with the E-meter. This is only used when you're doing the, um, when you're using the E-meter on yourself, which you only do on the confidential levels where you're learning about Xenu and auditing telepathically, communicating with your body thetons. So.

• 1:43:01Danny Jones?

  Because when you're.

• 1:43:02Speaker 02

  I don't want to get too far away from the microphone.

• 1:43:03Danny Jones?

  There's not enough people that can do auditing that know about Xenu. So if you're at that level, you have to be able to audit yourself.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Well, no, it's just that the Scientology procedures that they give you to get rid of your body thetons are procedures you do on yourself. There are some other procedures that someone does on you.

• 1:43:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:18Speaker 02

  But most of them you're doing on yourself. But the problem is that when you're auditing yourself and you're using the meter, you need to keep the needle on the dial. But if you're, but in an auditing session, you're writing stuff down on, on paper, right? And so if you're writing it down on paper, and you're having to go touch the tone arm to keep the needle on the dial, it just doesn't work. So the way this works is, you write here, and you move the needle with this little knob right here. Instead of having to lean over and touch the tone arm.

• 1:43:50Danny Jones?

  Ah, I see. So you have a remote, a remote control.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  It's called a remote tone arm, is what it's called. It's a remote tone arm. And even this is, even touching it here is a little clunky. And so this is very sensitive. You can move it. And so you're writing, you think, you think, you think the thing to yourself, and then you go, oh, it read. And then you go, da, da, da, da. And then eventually you get rid of your body thetons.

• 1:44:12Danny Jones?

  So what, how does the process actually work? What are you thinking about? And how do you know where to move the dial?

• 1:44:18Speaker 02

  Well, this, you're just, you're literally just keeping the needle on the dial so that you can see if it reads. So.

• 1:44:24Danny Jones?

  On this thing. Okay, so here, is it plugged, it's plugged in? Is that how we're getting power? So on this thing right here, what, what does this shit mean?

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  It really means nothing.

• 1:44:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:44:41Speaker 02

  Even in Scientology, all of those little, all those words and those symbols on the, on the, um, the dial mean quite literally nothing. It's just if it's moving to the left, they call it a rise. If it's moving to the fall, to the right, they call it a fall.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:44:54Speaker 02

  And all those little increments is just that you can try to judge the size of the read, the size of the fall.

• 1:44:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  Now, we're not trimmed up, so we're not on the dial.

• 1:45:02Danny Jones?

  We're not trimmed up? What does that mean, trimmed up?

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  Well, trimmed up means you've got the tone arm set at two, you've got the sensitivity. Thirty-two is fine.

• 1:45:13Danny Jones?

  You gotta dial it in.

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  Really trimmed up means we're not on the dial.

• 1:45:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:45:18Speaker 02

  Are we even, oh, we're not on. Turn the power on.

• 1:45:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, power's on.

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  Okay, good. And let me put the tone arm.

• 1:45:26Danny Jones?

  Can you see this on the camera, Steve?

• 1:45:27Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:28Speaker 02

  Okay. And we had this trimmed up before we began. Are you, are you able to put, put it down right here, more or less?

• 1:45:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Speaker 02

  Restraining the power cord.

• 1:45:38Danny Jones?

  There we go. How's that?

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  Good. Oh, right, right. I see the problem.

• 1:45:46Danny Jones?

  What's the problem?

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  You're gonna have to pick up those cans in a second, okay?

• 1:45:52Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, you need to measure your body, bro.

• 1:45:54Speaker 02

  That's right. There we go. All right, pick up those cans.

• 1:45:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, these things?

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you have two different sized cans on there?

• 1:46:03Speaker 04

  It came with like six of them.

• 1:46:05Danny Jones?

  Steve, why'd you give us different sized cans?

• 1:46:06Speaker 04

  I don't know how to use it.

• 1:46:08Danny Jones?

  This isn't, this is Bobby's problem. Bobby gave us the wrong sized cans. Damn it, Bobby. All right.

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  All right, let me see if I can get you, let me see if I can get you on the dial here. What's going on?

• 1:46:20Danny Jones?

  Is this gonna electrocute me?

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  No. Are you sure those cans are connected to these leads right here? They look like they are, right? Okay.

• 1:46:27Danny Jones?

  I think so.

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  Oh, right, because we got this remote TA thing. I'm gonna take off the remote tone arm, okay?

• 1:46:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  See if it wants to behave a little better.

• 1:46:43Danny Jones?

  Tone arm disconnected.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  That way. Get it calibrated again. Okay, good. There you are.

• 1:46:53Danny Jones?

  We live?

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  You're on the dial. Now make sure you.

• 1:46:57Danny Jones?

  How many body thetons do I have?

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  No, don't move it.

• 1:47:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, don't move, don't move. Keep it still?

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay, go ahead and turn the sensitivity.

• 1:47:07Speaker 04

  It's very sensitive.

• 1:47:08Danny Jones?

  Can you see that thing on the camera, Steve?

• 1:47:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's bouncing around.

• 1:47:11Speaker 02

  Now you're on the dial. All right, let's see. Think of something like super exciting. One of the biggest thrills of your life.

• 1:47:19Danny Jones?

  Biggest thrills of my life, okay.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Okay, good. So you got a little bit of a fall here. Like, none of this is actual science, right?

• 1:47:28Danny Jones?

  How dare you?

• 1:47:30Speaker 02

  So like, well, there, see, now your E-meter actually works, even with your mismatched sized cans and everything. All right, let me turn the sensitivity up a bit.

• 1:47:40Danny Jones?

  What does this tell you about me?

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  Tells you got really dry hands, by the way.

• 1:47:44Danny Jones?

  I can spit on them.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  No, don't do it. I'm gonna try to get you back on. And so, all right.

• 1:47:54Danny Jones?

  Do I have body aliens?

• 1:47:58Speaker 02

  So literally, the way this meter is used in auditing is just almost as a crutch. So like, if I ask you a question, what have you done that you don't want me to know about? Oh, you're wiggling around.

• 1:48:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I didn't know you didn't have to move.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  That's all right. You know, if I'm the auditor, and I basically, you know, many auditing sessions are some version of an interrogation, right?

• 1:48:20Danny Jones?

  Okay, how would you start an auditing session?

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  Well, we start an auditing session by doing all sorts of things to calibrate the E-meter, squeeze the cans, take a deep breath, let it out. Are you tired? Are you hungry? You're not actually gonna do this shit right now. But then be like, is there any reason not to start the session? Then you're like, thank you, you know, this is the session. And then we'd do some questions to resolve anything. You're, you know, do you have, do you have an, you know, there's all, I don't want to use Scientology lingo because there's no point. It doesn't mean anything, right?

• 1:48:45Danny Jones?

  Well, it'd be fun.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:48:46Danny Jones?

  Or role playing.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  So in the beginning of an auditing session, you, you handle what they call the rudiments first, which means what are the things you have to address before you're ready to start the actual auditing session?

• 1:48:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:48:55Speaker 02

  So the first thing is addressing any ARC breaks, which is just Scientology lingo for things you're upset about.

• 1:49:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  And then, so I'd be like, do you have an ARC break? And then if it got a read, I'd be like, do you have an ARC break? And you'd be like, yeah, I had a big fight with my wife this morning. And I'd be like, oh, thank you very much. Is that a break in affinity? Reality, communication, understanding? And if I got a read on communication, is that a break in communication? Like, yes, total break in communication. Thank you. Was that curious about communication? Desired communication? Enforced communication? Was that enforced communication? Yes, she was enforcing it on me. And then you're looking for the needle to kind of go back and forth a little bit. You'd be like, thank you, your needle is floating. Thank you. And then you'd finish that rudiment, and then you'd go on to the next rudiment. Do you have a present time problem? Now, that's something you have your

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  attention on, that feels like it's more important to be doing that than being in an auditing session right now.

• 1:49:47Speaker 04

  A present time problem?

• 1:49:48Speaker 02

  Present time problem.

• 1:49:49Danny Jones?

  Something distracting you.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  Do you have a present time problem?

• 1:49:51Danny Jones?

  I'm distracted by something.

• 1:49:52Speaker 02

  Something you're distracted by. And if, let's, let's say that doesn't read and I get a little floating. Let's just say that doesn't read and now, has a withhold been missed? Now, that's something you've done that you, people don't know about, but someone gave you the impression they might know about it, and you don't know if they really know or not. And it makes you feel a particular way.

• 1:50:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:50:13Speaker 02

  These three questions get addressed at the beginning of every single auditing session that is ever done. Which is why, no matter what you're planning on doing in that auditing session, imagine you've got a 13-year-old auditor. No matter what you're doing in that auditing session, even if it wasn't going to be something salacious, your answer to any one of these questions could be something salacious and inappropriate and sexual. Literally anything, right? There's nothing off limits in an auditing session.

• 1:50:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  I'm giving you an example about how if a child is your auditor.

• 1:50:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  It is completely age inappropriate.

• 1:50:49Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  Because every, every auditing session, you're potentially talking about age inappropriate stuff. Okay. So then, once we're done with the rudiments, let's say we're here, we're doing a, doing a certain confessional. And I'd be like, okay, um, have you done anything you don't want me to know about? Now, what I'm looking for is the needle to move to the right, right at the end of the last word. Okay? Have you done anything you don't want me to know about? And if I go, and, and I can ask it a bunch of different ways to try to get it to read. On the question, have you done anything you don't want me to know about? Has anything been suppressed? On the question, have you done anything you don't want me to know about? Has anything been invalidated? And there's like six or seven different questions I can ask. I'm trying to get a read, okay?

• 1:51:30Danny Jones?

  A read means what?

• 1:51:32Speaker 02

  The needle moves to the right at the very end of the question. And if I get a read, that's basically, that's green light. That means I I'm getting an answer to this question. You have an answer to this question.

• 1:51:43Danny Jones?

  Oh shit.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  So I'm using the E meter as an interrogation tool.

• 1:51:46Danny Jones?

  So it's actually doing something that what does that little jump actually mean like scientifically?

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Um, some change to the resistance of the electrical flow of the battery go through your body.

• 1:51:54Speaker 04

  So it's like a polygraph.

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  It's like a third of a polygraph.

• 1:51:57Speaker 04

  It's like a third of a polygraph.

• 1:51:58Danny Jones?

  It's like a polygraph.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  It's a third of a polygraph.

• 1:52:00Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:02Danny Jones?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:52:03Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 1:52:03Danny Jones?

  So ask me something.

• 1:52:04Speaker 02

  Well, okay. Have you done anything you don't want me to know about?

• 1:52:07Danny Jones?

  When today?

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  Look at him. He's got crimes.

• 1:52:09Speaker 04

  Dude, it's it it just hit the wall, man.

• 1:52:13Speaker 02

  Your needle just broke. It hit the dial, hit the pin so hard. And and so I am using this and you might be like, no, I'd be like, well, what did you think of when I asked you the question? What exactly?

• 1:52:25Danny Jones?

  I did masturbate to Miss Rachel.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  How many times did you stroke it?

• 1:52:29Danny Jones?

  Probably.

• 1:52:32Speaker 04

  I need the exact number.

• 1:52:34Danny Jones?

  It with Miss Rachel and it took me 27.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:52:37Danny Jones?

  It was very fast.

• 1:52:38Speaker 02

  Um, and so I'm getting all the details that I that I can that I want that I need. This isn't like.

• 1:52:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:45Speaker 02

  And I'm ba- so the E meter is just used as a crutch.

• 1:52:49Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  I'm gonna use what the needle does on the E meter as my signal for whether to keep going for more, keep asking for more.

• 1:52:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  Asking you for an earlier similar time you did something.

• 1:53:02Danny Jones?

  So you're looking for the you're looking for the dark stuff. You're looking for the stuff people are ashamed of.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, the stuff that they're holding on to.

• 1:53:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:10Speaker 02

  Cause the Scientology idea would be because you're withholding this stuff.

• 1:53:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  You end up withholding your own power.

• 1:53:19Danny Jones?

  They might be on to something.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  I mean, to some extent, all these weird cults are on to something.

• 1:53:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's true. That's very true.

• 1:53:25Speaker 02

  That's why people get in. Um, and so that is.

• 1:53:30Danny Jones?

  I wonder that I wonder that probably does have some sort of a positive effect on people.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Also, let's look at the placebo effect, right?

• 1:53:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  You know, the placebo effect works even more if the person's wearing a lab jacket, like that kind of stuff like.

• 1:53:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:45Speaker 02

  The placebo comes with, the more effective it is. You as a Scientologist are told that this registers things underneath your consciousness.

• 1:53:53Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:53:54Speaker 02

  This things knows things about you. You don't know.

• 1:53:56Danny Jones?

  Right. Belief is very, very powerful.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  And so not only can I can I use this to tell you that you have answers to my questions, but I can only use it to tell you when that's all fixed now. That's all handled. That's all resolved now.

• 1:54:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  Your needle is floating. That that has gone away now. Like, wow, it has gone away. I feel so much better.

• 1:54:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I do feel better.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  This E meter is used in almost all Scientology auditing and this E meter, when they're doing the telepathic communicating with the the body phaetons that Xenu created.

• 1:54:27Danny Jones?

  I mean, I do. I do feel better now that I admitted that I was masturbated to Miss Rachel.

• 1:54:31Speaker 02

  There you go. Let's go test to the state of clear.

• 1:54:33Danny Jones?

  I mean,

• 1:54:35Danny Jones?

  it does work.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:38Danny Jones?

  You know, it's nuanced.

• 1:54:39Speaker 02

  So Scientology got so pissed off that non Scientologists were getting their hands on these meters that they their newest version, the Mark eight Ultra. Oh, is actually fully computerized.

• 1:54:49Danny Jones?

  Software update.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  It's fully computerized.

• 1:54:52Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:54:53Speaker 02

  And every year you have to plug it in to your computer and re authenticate it through Scientology's own website. And if you don't, the machine bricks. So if you're not in good standing with Scientology, your E meter ceases to work. It's nothing but a $5,000 paperweight.

• 1:55:12Danny Jones?

  Well, how does mine work?

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  Because this is the Mark Super seven Quantum. They this uh, this one became obsolete in 2014. They don't sell these anymore. They don't sell these anymore.

• 1:55:23Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  So um, a local Scientologist who left Scientology gave me their their Mark eight Ultra. And it's just a it it won't even turn on. It's just useless.

• 1:55:33Danny Jones?

  Cause the newer ones, you have to be able to plug it into the internet to get the update, but this one's so old.

• 1:55:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it and if it doesn't update, it breaks. It's not pre-internet. It's just pre that model of E meter.

• 1:55:44Danny Jones?

  Ah, I see.

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:45Danny Jones?

  Gotcha.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Exactly. So that's why you can buy these.

• 1:55:48Danny Jones?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:55:49Speaker 02

  That's why you can't buy the Mark eight ultras is because no one's who's selling paperweights.

• 1:55:53Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:54Speaker 02

  And if Scientology sees them on eBay, I'm pretty sure they might snap them up.

• 1:55:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this one was, I think this one was purchased on eBay.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, like these older ones, there's there's tons of them out there.

• 1:56:03Danny Jones?

  What was that one I was showing you out there in the other room?

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  That's a Mark five.

• 1:56:06Danny Jones?

  Is that a super old one?

• 1:56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a super old one. Yeah, there's both Mark five, the Mark six, the Mark seven, the Super seven, and then the eight Ultra.

• 1:56:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:16Speaker 02

  And every time they come out with a new meter, the Scientologists all have to buy it again. You're not allowed to use your old E meters.

• 1:56:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:56:23Speaker 02

  It's $5,000 a pop.

• 1:56:25Danny Jones?

  How much do the Scientologists have to pay for these?

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  $5,000 a pop.

• 1:56:28Danny Jones?

  Do people buy their own?

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  You have to buy your own.

• 1:56:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's mandatory. Buy your own.

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you're training to be an auditor and you you have to have two.

• 1:56:36Danny Jones?

  Jeez.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. It's a it's a money.

• 1:56:40Danny Jones?

  No wonder you have to be wealthy to be in Scientology.

• 1:56:42Speaker 02

  There's a great German engineering YouTube channel that um, took one of these, actually this exact model and opened it up and broke it down and and analyzed how it works inside and put a cost estimate together. Uh, it's not more than $200 worth of parts. And they're manu- and these were manufactured by free Sea Org slave labor up at the international base.

• 1:57:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:57:02Speaker 02

  These days, the Mark eight, I think they're made in Taiwan.

• 1:57:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:04Speaker 02

  But again, they cost like a hundred bucks, 200 bucks to make this on for $5,000.

• 1:57:10Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  And that's how an organization that doesn't pay income tax, doesn't pay property tax and doesn't have to pay its staff make so much damn money.

• 1:57:18Danny Jones?

  That is fucking wild, dude.

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we were talking on the phone the other day about like some of the crazy shit that people have to go through to like escape Scientology and all that stuff and you know, a lot of it, a lot of those stories that I've heard happened a long time ago, like in particular, I think the first podcast I ever did on Scientology.

• 1:57:39Danny Jones?

  I don't know if it was Mike Rinder or if it was uh, David Miscavige's dad.

• 1:57:42Speaker 02

  Ron.

• 1:57:43Danny Jones?

  Ron.

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  Miscavige.

• 1:57:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah. But I remember talking, I think it was Ron who I was talking to, who was telling me like their crazy escape sto- thing they had to do to like actually get out of there. Cause I think they were in the Sea Org. Am I right? Is that right?

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ron and his wife, Becca, at that time, they're both dead now.

• 1:57:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he recently died and like the story that they had about like escaping and like having to like trick the security guards and like get her in the car and they had to like haul ass down the road and cars were chasing them like. How much of that actually happens still today? Is that something that just happened back then, like during the like the early days and like the eighties and nineties? Or uh, is it possible for them to still get away with shit like that today?

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  Still get away with it? I mean, I mean, i- if someone who worked here in in the downtown Clearwater base, the Flagland base, if they had to leave, they would, if they had to, if they wanted to leave and not do it Scientology's way, they would absolutely have to do it like that.

• 1:58:34Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• 1:58:35Danny Jones?

  They would get chased.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah. You see the roving security guards on their bikes. They've they got the cameras everywhere. They got the walkie talkies everywhere. The bus drivers are all are all mic'd up, you know, all this, all the roving security guards are patched into the bus drivers and everything. And that's how the buses avoid the protesters is, you know, they're all on the on the walkie talkies. Okay, where where are they now? Where are they now? Okay, we're gonna go back behind this building. So and you know, if your friend was doing some IT work for them, I don't know if he saw the quality of their cameras. I'm told they could read a license plate on Clearwater Beach from the top of the Fort Harrison hotels.

• 1:59:06Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  Strong their cameras are.

• 1:59:07Danny Jones?

  That far away.

• 1:59:08Speaker 02

  I'm told they got better cameras than the Clearwater police. And so, yeah. Now, the thing is, you also can leave. It's like, but they have very stringent, long, grueling, abusive sort of process that you've got to go through to leave uh, the Sea Organization. And you know.

• 1:59:27Danny Jones?

  Why though? Like if you if you've decided you want to leave, if I decide I'm fucking done with Scientology, what's forcing me to go through their grueling process? I'm just gonna leave and give them the middle finger.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  That's if you decide that you're done with Scientology.

• 1:59:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:41Speaker 02

  Some people just want to leave the Sea Org. They don't necessarily want to leave Scientology.

• 1:59:45Danny Jones?

  Stay in Scientology. I see what you're saying.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  And that's what that's the leverage they have over their head is if you want to stay in Scientology and if you want to still associate with Scientologists, you're gonna do this our way on our timeline and you're gonna meet our requirements.

• 2:00:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:00:00Speaker 02

  Which is tons of interrogations to find out any bad thing you could have done. And that's specifically, at that point, you pretty much know that specifically so that it can be used against you. Um, if if you decide to go to the dark side.

• 2:00:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  Um, they literally will sit you down with a lawyer and cameras and interview you and say, okay, you see everything in writing that you've said that you've done wrong while you work for the organization? Do you agree that you did this, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. I did this. Okay. And um, and you agree that you're here of your own free will? Yes, yes, yes. And and you're here today of your own free will? Absolutely. You understand that um, you're leaving, you've chosen to leave because you're unable to meet the high ethical standards of the Sea Organization, right? Yes?

• 2:00:44Danny Jones?

  Yes, absolutely. You will say anything to get out of there. Okay?

• 2:00:47Speaker 02

  And you have this on video with a lawyer. They they do this with every single person who leaves the Sea Org, even if you didn't have some high, high level important role. Um, they they have you sign all sorts of affidavits, um, non-disclosure, non-disparagement to basically put the fear of God into you.

• 2:01:05Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:01:05Speaker 02

  That even if you do leave, just keep your mouth shut, get on with your life.

• 2:01:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:12Speaker 02

  Don't start a YouTube channel. Don't go on Danny Jones's podcast.

• 2:01:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:01:16Speaker 02

  You know, that kind of stuff.

• 2:01:17Danny Jones?

  Has anyone in there ever like secretly reached out to you? To like say, hey, man, I see what you're doing. I'm like, I'm aware of it. Can you bring me to the light?

• 2:01:29Speaker 02

  They have not reached out when they were still in. They leave and they say how their process went and they explain that they're watching the videos while they were.

• 2:01:37Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:01:38Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes.

• 2:01:41Danny Jones?

  And how do they get away with watching the videos and not getting caught? Cause aren't they surrounded by people who are constantly snitching on them? And like checking their computers and stuff like that, isn't it pretty?

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  Maybe they had a day off and they went to the coffee shop or something, you know? Instead of going to the coffee shop in Clearwater, Florida, maybe they went over to Safety Harbor or something. Every now and then they'll get a day or two off a year, you know? I mean, people, where there's a will, there's a way. People, people figure it out.

• 2:02:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:07Danny Jones?

  Fuck, man. It's so crazy. And then the OS, what is it called? The Office of Special Affairs?

• 2:02:14Speaker 02

  OSA.

• 2:02:14Danny Jones?

  That's like their spy wing?

• 2:02:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:02:16Danny Jones?

  And they still have people who are actively like going out and doing, like spying on people and then trying to fuck with people?

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I got a great channel on, on, um, I have a great video on my channel of busting a PI that had been camping outside of my house for, for months. It turns out my neighbors finally told me about this. And I was like, they're like, hey, listen, Aaron, these PIs are really harassing people. And I'm like, PIs? What are you talking about? Oh, you didn't see this guy? How come you guys didn't tell me earlier? Oh, we just assumed that you knew about it. And I'm like, this is the greatest day of my life. I've always wanted to bust one of these guys on video. And, um, yeah, so OSA hires lawyers, lawyers hire the PIs. They use cutouts and, you know, arms and relationships and stuff like that. Yeah. The Office of Special Affairs, they handle all the media, all the legal, all the public relations.

• 2:03:06Speaker 02

  They're, they're the ones, they're the ones talking to the newspapers, talking to the journalists.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  Well, when Tommy G came to town, you mentioned that, uh, they went into the, the Clearwater Bank building. That, those are the Office of Special Affairs offices. Pat Harney, the woman that I went to go talk to in my little video about Flavio. She's a long-term, high-level operative for the Office of Special Affairs. That's, that's what's in that Clearwater Bank building. That's, that's OSA.

• 2:03:32Danny Jones?

  What's the Clearwater Bank building? Where's that at?

• 2:03:34Speaker 02

  Um, right at the intersection of, uh, Cleveland and Fort Harrison. It's an old historical building, Clearwater Bank building. They also call it the Scientology Information Center. But that's why that's the information center.

• 2:03:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:03:48Speaker 02

  They don't, they don't want people going into a real church of Scientology. They just have you going into the Office of Special Affairs. The people who work there have already heard all of the scandalous stuff about Scientology. Those people aren't going to be like, like if someone walks in there and they're like, where's Shelley Miscavige? You know, why did Whitney Mills kill herself? You know, all this stuff, the, the staff in there have already been inoculated to all of that. They already know all of that because those staff work for the Office of Special Affairs. So that's where, that's where they want new people to come in. That is also what might make it seem like you can join Scientology in Clearwater because they've got this center where you can walk in, it's an information center. But that's not what it means to join Scientology. You can't, you can't join Scientology.

• 2:04:28Danny Jones?

  So did you actually confront this PI?

• 2:04:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:04:31Danny Jones?

  Face to face?

• 2:04:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:04:32Danny Jones?

  What happened?

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  I mean, I got a great video about it. I don't know if I can easily find it.

• 2:04:38Danny Jones?

  So this guy was just sitting in a car out front of your house?

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Let me see if I can find it real quick.

• 2:04:42Danny Jones?

  I would wonder if those people actually know why, like who's behind it, like are they aware that Scientology is hiring them? To spy on suppressive people?

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  I believe they know.

• 2:04:57Danny Jones?

  And the, the special, the, the private investigators who are doing this, these PIs, they, they are not themselves Scientologists.

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 2:05:07Danny Jones?

  He found it. Is that it?

• 2:05:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's it.

• 2:05:10Danny Jones?

  Let's hear it.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Notice he's got an earpiece in.

• 2:05:19Speaker 02

  There he is.

• 2:05:22Speaker 02

  Well, let's see what's going on.

• 2:05:39Speaker 02

  Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy.

• 2:05:44Speaker 02

  How you doing? Hey. What's your name, buddy?

• 2:06:00Speaker 02

  I wish it was more exciting, but, uh, that was one of the greatest days of my life right there. I mean, why would he roll his window down? Why bother saying anything to me at all? But he'd been there for months.

• 2:06:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:06:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Been there for months.

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  That's crazy, man. The amount of money they have to be able to pay for those people.

• 2:06:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. But again, and the conversation that I was having there with Mike was like, why would they be doing this? And that's what Mike explained. It's not that they're trying to catch you doing something. It's that Miscavige is probably in town and they just want to know where you are so they know where you're not.

• 2:06:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:31Speaker 02

  Which is about to ambush him or his security detail.

• 2:06:34Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. Now, what's the latest with Grant Cardone? I know he's been getting in a lot of trouble. I've saw those videos of those depositions or whatever. I know that has a lot to do with like his business, his shady like real estate business where he tries to get people to invest in buildings and stuff like that.

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, in the Scientology world, the latest with him is that him and his wife, Elena, were just given the award for being the number one, uh, Dianetics, they call it disseminators. But in the real world, it would be like the, the number one Dianetics recruiters in all of Scientology. So I don't know if you've seen like, Elena seems to do this even more than Grant, like.

• 2:07:10Danny Jones?

  That's his wife?

• 2:07:11Speaker 02

  Elena is his wife. And they're just doing all these Dianetics promotional videos. It's almost like how all of these, these gurus sell their stuff is be more like me, buy my program. Be more like me, do my course.

• 2:07:25Speaker 02

  Emulate my success. This is how I traveled my path. You can do the same if you only, you know, invest with me or buy my whatever. Part of Grant's story is Dianetics. Dianetics is how I really unlocked my potential. Dianetics is how I really, you know, got a handle on life. Dianetics is really how I was able to see, how I was holding myself back.

• 2:07:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:07:46Speaker 02

  You know, that's how I was able to take it to, to a, to a whole nother level. And so, yeah, Miscavige awarded Grant Cardone and his wife Elena is literally the number one Dianetics promoters in all of Scientology.

• 2:08:00Danny Jones?

  So he's recruiting people?

• 2:08:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely. That's, that's why I do videos about Grant. I don't really give a damn about his real estate business or all of his stuff. I go, the guy's one of the number one recruiters and financial supporters of a family destroying human trafficking cult. And so that's why I do videos about him and he's only been leaning into it more. Yeah. He, if you look at his Instagram, especially if you're familiar with downtown Clearwater and what the Scientology buildings, uh, look like, he's been spending a lot of time here.

• 2:08:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've noticed.

• 2:08:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:28Danny Jones?

  I've seen that. And I see he walks around down there and like talks to people and like, he even films himself walking through that flag building.

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:08:36Danny Jones?

  And you see all the fucking crazy gold plated shit everywhere, the escalators. It's wild looking in there. It looks like a Trump hotel.

• 2:08:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:08:46Speaker 02

  I, I think Cardone makes a lot of money on the backs of other Scientologists.

• 2:08:52Danny Jones?

  How?

• 2:08:54Speaker 02

  By promoting his investment, his investment schemes. And also by doing his, his seminars and his 10x, his 10x conferences, they all sort of, it's all.

• 2:09:03Danny Jones?

  A lot of them.

• 2:09:03Speaker 02

  It's almost like an MLM within an MLM kind of.

• 2:09:05Danny Jones?

  Right, right. He sort of grad, those Scientologists that are already in the church, they gravitate towards him because he's one of the most famous Scientologists. So he's got like an easy target audience there.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:09:16Danny Jones?

  That's crazy, dude.

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:19Danny Jones?

  And that whole lawsuit was crazy. So that, the, the, what was the story with the, with the actual lawsuit with him?

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  The lawsuit is him doing videos guaranteeing a certain amount of returns on one of his funds.

• 2:09:32Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:09:33Speaker 02

  It's kind of like he starts a new fund for each.

• 2:09:34Danny Jones?

  Like timeshare type things, right?

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Well, no, I mean, timeshare is a very specific thing. He's basically buying these giant commercial apartment buildings, right? And so first he buys the building and then he raised the funds and he flips the building to his investors. Timeshare is a very specific thing. That's not what he's doing. But in order to raise the money for these funds, he does it through social media. He's raising this money from unaccredited investors. And especially when you're promoting to that type of investor, you making exaggerated claims of a certain guaranteed level of annual returns, you know, you're getting into fraud territory.

• 2:10:12Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:10:13Speaker 02

  Because they're unaccredited investors, the assumption is that they are not necessarily smart enough to know that what you're saying is obviously bullshit and should be taken with a grain of salt, right?

• 2:10:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:23Speaker 02

  And there was just a series of videos where he kept repeating the same claim of guaranteed returns. And then there's one video where he even said that the SEC told him he couldn't say that, but he was saying it anyway and the SEC could basically go shove it. So, uh, one of the investors in that, in that fund just has, has sued him for it. And that investor has since died. His daughter has picked up the lawsuit. I think we're talking about the Pino, the Pino, uh, it's actually a class, a class action lawsuit. I think the investor is Pino. And this thing's dragged on for years and years. And you're talking about a deposition that was recently made public where I think Grant kind of made a fool out of himself. And did you watch the whole thing?

• 2:10:59Danny Jones?

  No, I just saw clips. He was reposting the clips of it.

• 2:11:02Speaker 02

  I know. And even lawyers were like, I do not know why you are, you know? There's a lot of lawyers who do reaction videos on YouTube.

• 2:11:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:08Speaker 02

  Like the Bearded Lawyer, for example, did, uh, I think he might even be a, a local guy.

• 2:11:12Danny Jones?

  The Bearded Lawyer?

• 2:11:13Speaker 02

  There's a guy on YouTube, The Bearded Lawyer. Um, and he's like, I, I don't know what Grant is doing. It, it does seem like he's a little out of control, but he seemed a little out of control to me for, for a long time. I don't know. It's one of these things where he, maybe he could get away with this forever, you know? I was speculating for a long time that he was getting very close to going to jail. The FBI had him under surveillance. They had, um.

• 2:11:33Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:11:34Speaker 02

  They were doing undercover, this is some of the stuff that's come out. Uh, even when he had a falling out recently with his, um, former business partner, Gary Brekka. You must know, have you ever interviewed Gary Brekka?

• 2:11:44Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:11:45Speaker 02

  The 10x health guy?

• 2:11:46Danny Jones?

  No, we got close to interviewing him, but decided against it.

• 2:11:49Speaker 02

  I interviewed him.

• 2:11:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah? Is he a Scientologist?

• 2:11:53Speaker 02

  No, no. But he, uh, he, one of the stories that he told is when Grant acknowledged to him that Grant knew the FBI had been recording his offices, um, had people inside, some informants working in there. And it's one of these things where when the FBI surveillance of you gets to that level, that seems pretty incriminating, but on the, on the other side, you'd be like, yeah, but they never brought a case. So. Maybe they must not have found anything, or they found something, but it wasn't enough. Like, who knows how these decisions get made?

• 2:12:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:12:24Speaker 02

  The SEC had him under investigation. Well, this was one of the hottest clips that came out in that deposition is he sat there saying that the SEC had fully cleared him of any wrongdoing. And the lawyer said, "The SEC absolutely did not clear you of any wrongdoing." And he goes, "Yes, they did." And the lawyer gave him the letter from the SEC and said, "Read paragraph X from this letter." And he goes, "We are not bringing an enforcement action." And the lawyer said, "Yeah, read the next paragraph." And the next paragraph, "This should in no way ever be interpreted to mean that you are being cleared of any wrongdoing." So, I don't know, but one way or another, the guy has not been prosecuted criminally.

• 2:13:09Speaker 02

  He's not been, the SEC has not taken action against him at this point. And this class action lawsuit seems to be one of the last remaining things that's lingering over him. And I'm surprised he doesn't settle it, but I guess, I guess.

• 2:13:24Danny Jones?

  And whatever happened with the Danny Masterson case?

• 2:13:27Speaker 02

  Oh, that guy's doing life in prison.

• 2:13:28Danny Jones?

  Life.

• 2:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, up to life, yeah.

• 2:13:33Danny Jones?

  And Scientology was a huge part of helping him with that lawsuit?

• 2:13:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, that wasn't a lawsuit, that was a criminal prosecution.

• 2:13:39Danny Jones?

  Criminal prosecution, yeah.

• 2:13:40Speaker 02

  Scientology was very active in silencing his victims. And again, it's kind of like the Beck situation. Scientology knew that Danny, these women, Scientology knew it. They did their own investigation and they determined it. This all came out in the trial. And they even permitted a financial settlement between Danny and one of his Scientologist victims, because they thought this would at least prevent this victim from ever going public in the future. So like, not only did they investigate it, like Scientology doesn't let Scientologists extort their celebrities for money. There's no benefit in Scientology for coming forward and saying,

• 2:14:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  "A Scientologist celebrity, it's me." Okay?

• 2:14:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  If anything, Scientology would generally come down pretty hard on one of its own rank and file members accusing one of its own celebrities of that, even internally.

• 2:14:31Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:14:32Speaker 02

  Okay? So the fact that Scientology arranged, not only permitted, but arranged this financial settlement is just one of the many pieces of evidence that Scientology itself concluded Danny Masterson committed these.

• 2:14:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:47Speaker 02

  And, and they are the ones who silenced the victims for as, as long as they were silenced.

• 2:14:53Danny Jones?

  God, dude.

• 2:14:54Speaker 02

  And, and that's why the Danny Masterson trial ended up being just as much of an indictment against Scientology as, as Danny himself.

• 2:15:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:01Danny Jones?

  It's a cartel. It's a cartel, just like, you know, they're no different, they're no different than, you know, Mexican drug cartels or, you know, fucking huge corporations that are lobbying politicians to get away with crimes, right? Like, at any level, I think we've seen that more recently. We've seen that more, you know, in the public in the last couple of months with like, all the shit the FBI has been doing with covering shit up and protecting fucking billionaire donors. It's just, it, it all boils down to money at the end of the day. If you have enough money to pay off politicians, pay off judges and have fucking blackmail on people, you're just gonna get away with shit in this country. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way it is.

• 2:15:41Danny Jones?

  And, you know, I don't know if, if, if we're ever gonna see Scientology taken down as long as they're breaking in as much money as they have and fucking lobbying people and trying to control people in government.

• 2:15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:15:54Danny Jones?

  As much as they are.

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  I always say the good news is that they're failing already on their own. Government intervention would be amazing. Massive civil settlements would be amazing. Getting their tax exempt status revoked would be amazing. I look forward to the day that those things happen, but Scientology's failing pretty quickly all on its own. In terms of membership, right? I mean, you could have a billion, two billion, okay, and any individual can have 10 billion in the bank. Scientology can have money in the bank, but if you don't have members, you don't, you know, what, what do you have? What do you have?

• 2:16:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:23Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess as someone who grew up in it, and I see the death of the organization as the loss of its members. Someone else might say, "Well, as long as they have money, they're not really dead." If they keep shrinking, they're dead enough.

• 2:16:36Danny Jones?

  Hmm. And they still own all that real estate, right? They, aren't they one of the biggest real estate holders in the country?

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's in the country. I mean, there's only, there's only about 50 recruitment centers in the entire country. So, they might be one of the largest property, they might be the largest property owner in Clearwater, but they're definitely not the largest, one of the largest property owners in the country.

• 2:16:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:16:58Speaker 02

  I promise you that. So, I guess I'm trying to be optimistic, right? Scientology's losing members very, very quickly. It's getting harder and harder to recruit anybody. I measure the death of the organization as the loss of their membership. And, and I feel like that's in a death spiral that they will never recover from. I think they will be able to continue to accumulate money until they lose their tax exempt status. And, and so that's why maybe the organization will always continue to exist in some way, shape or form for, for, for, for many years to come. But I don't think they're going to ever get back to being able to actually recruit people into Scientology.

• 2:17:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:36Speaker 02

  I really don't. I really don't. But, so, I feel like every day we have a little bit of success in taking Scientology down a little bit more. Even if their balance sheet is growing, I still look on the upside.

• 2:17:47Danny Jones?

  So you're still protesting every single week?

• 2:17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I try to do videos every single day, and I still run the foundation to help people leave Scientology.

• 2:17:53Danny Jones?

  Are you still, are you interviewing like, people who left Scientology pretty regularly? Like, former people?

• 2:17:57Speaker 02

  Not as much as I was the last few years. I mean, pretty much worked, there's only, there's only 20,000 Scientologists in the entire world, so.

• 2:18:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  When you then go, okay, how many people?

• 2:18:06Danny Jones?

  Are there a lot overseas?

• 2:18:08Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I'd say half of Scientology is, is out of the US, half of Scientology is in the US. Yeah.

• 2:18:15Danny Jones?

  Half is out of the US?

• 2:18:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I'd say half the recruitment centers are, are in, yeah, South America, Europe.

• 2:18:21Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:18:22Speaker 02

  Australia. Absolutely. Pretty much every European country has a recruitment center in it.

• 2:18:26Danny Jones?

  Huh.

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:29Danny Jones?

  Weird.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you're gonna, so you're gonna maybe 10,000 Scientologists in the US, maybe 10,000 Scientologists everywhere else in the world as well.

• 2:18:35Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:18:36Speaker 02

  You know? Less every day, though.

• 2:18:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, dude, thanks for doing this, brother. I really appreciate it.

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  My pleasure.

• 2:18:43Danny Jones?

  Tell people out there, like, the name of your channel, all that stuff, how they can reach out to you.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  Growing up in Scientology is where I do all my stuff. Everything else just trickles down from there, whether it's Facebook or Instagram or X or whatever. But you can find me on YouTube at Growing Up in Scientology.

• 2:18:55Danny Jones?

  Or on the corner of Fort Harrison, at the beach, by the gas station.

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  Chestnut and Fort Harrison.

• 2:19:01Danny Jones?

  Look 500 feet away from the Scientology flag building, you'll find Aaron waving a flag.

• 2:19:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:19:07Danny Jones?

  Cool, bro. Well, thanks again. We'll link all your shit below for, for folks to find and.

• 2:19:12Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:19:13Danny Jones?

  That's all, folks.

• 2:19:15Speaker 03

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