Episode 386 - Grand Canyon Mysteries (Part 2) | The Disappearance of Glen & Bessie Hyde

We’re continuing our celebration of nine years of Two Girls One Ghost with the second half of our two-part deep dive into the Grand Canyon, where we investigate the baffling disappearance of honeymooners Glen and Bessie Hyde. Their dangerous journey down the Colorado River ended with an intact boat, a journal, and decades of theories involving murder, a skull, secret identities, and a woman who claimed years later that she was Bessie herself. Then we head 210 feet underground to explore the haunted Grand Canyon Caverns, a place filled with forgotten remains, Cold War secrets, prehistoric creatures, and a hotel room surrounded by total darkness and near-total silence. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited and produced by Jaimi Ryan. Original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion. It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says,

• 0:44Speaker 00

  I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours, and theirs are theirs.

• 1:01Speaker 01

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• 1:52Corinne Vien?

  Hi.

• 1:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Happy anniversary, happy anniversary, happy anniversary.

• 1:56Corinne Vien?

  To...

• 1:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Happy anniversary.

• 1:58Corinne Vien?

  Us.

• 1:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yay.

• 2:00Corinne Vien?

  This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

• 2:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two Girls, One Ghost. We are your guestesses. That is Corinne.

• 2:05Corinne Vien?

  Hello.

• 2:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I am Sabrina. And my goodness, if you've been here for all nine years, thank you. You deserve a medal for sticking through the early years with us.

• 2:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I think we deserve a medal too, because...

• 2:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Pat's on the back.

• 2:21Corinne Vien?

  Every week, we do a research paper, basically.

• 2:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, and right now, while we're preparing for your maternity leave, we're doing like full on...

• 2:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 2:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, we're each doing one to two a week.

• 2:32Corinne Vien?

  We're like, oh, we'll never have to do this again. And then, two years later, started a podcast, where we're like, wouldn't it be great to write 10-page research papers every single week?

• 2:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sometimes we read an entire book in preparation for episodes. So yeah, Pat's on our own back.

• 2:48Corinne Vien?

  It doesn't feel bad, though, when it's a topic you like.

• 2:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes. And that's the thing. That's why we've been doing it for nine years, because we are obsessed with this topic. And it's just strange, weird things in the world, of which there are endless amounts.

• 3:01Corinne Vien?

  It never ends.

• 3:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You all are friggin' haunted and friggin' weird, and we're just so grateful that this little weird community exists. We found our people.

• 3:11Corinne Vien?

  And that is why, for our anniversary, to celebrate nine years, we decided to share an episode, or like make it into two parts.

• 3:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 3:19Corinne Vien?

  And go somewhere super creepy.

• 3:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do you know how to twerk? Sorry. I just, you, before this, asked me how the Ladies and Tangents show went. And in, which is, oh my gosh, Ladies and Tangents came and did a live show in Summerville, Massachusetts, back in May. It was so outrageously funny. I, I don't laugh out loud often, even when I go to like a comedy show. Well, a part of the video, because it was like Girls Gone Mild, and it's like a slumber party vibes. And so they had video of a whole segment where they were like teaching themselves how to twerk. And it was the, I was fully laughing out loud the entire time, but then it just made me think, with the excitement and energy, I was like, what if I just got up and like started twerking, like bent over and... Started twerking. But I don't know how to twerk, so then I was like, do you know how to twerk?

• 4:06Corinne Vien?

  I have one, one twerk move, but there's, there's many moves.

• 4:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Out there?

• 4:10Corinne Vien?

  In a proper twerk.

• 4:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 4:11Corinne Vien?

  Right?

• 4:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So you can do one jiggle, one clap?

• 4:14Corinne Vien?

  I can do one.

• 4:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  One clap?

• 4:16Corinne Vien?

  It's more of a gyration.

• 4:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think that's the, you need gyration for a twerk.

• 4:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And I, I can't like do it while I'm standing. I gotta be more in a squat.

• 4:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm, the bent down position.

• 4:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Corinne Vien?

  I can squat work.

• 4:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I think, I think that's part of it.

• 4:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I also don't have a butt. We sit here.

• 4:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's not true. You do have a butt.

• 4:36Corinne Vien?

  I don't. I've been told so many times I don't.

• 4:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So many people, well, I think it's also because you're very pregnant and like, you kind of like are holding your belly.

• 4:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But in the videos recently, people were like, okay, Corinne's got a dump truck.

• 4:50Corinne Vien?

  What videos? I'm sitting.

• 4:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, the, let's see, I'll show you this one, that we filmed.

• 4:55Corinne Vien?

  Guys, I think that those are my love handles. I don't think, I think you're misinterpreting.

• 5:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think it's the way your hands are placed.

• 5:04Corinne Vien?

  On my side, as being my butt.

• 5:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It looks like you have a...

• 5:07Corinne Vien?

  Oh, whoa, it looks like I, guys, I have a big ass, let me tell you.

• 5:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Doesn't it look like you have a butt?

• 5:14Corinne Vien?

  That looks like I have a huge butt.

• 5:19Corinne Vien?

  That makes me feel good.

• 5:21Corinne Vien?

  That, never have I ever had one, so.

• 5:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. I, I had one for like a hot second, and then it disappeared.

• 5:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I think specifically, like in my field hockey days, I had a butt.

• 5:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 5:30Corinne Vien?

  And then, then it was gone.

• 5:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where'd it go?

• 5:33Corinne Vien?

  I don't know.

• 5:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's a mystery. We'll, we'll never know the answers to.

• 5:35Corinne Vien?

  We'll never know. We slide so fast when we go down slides, there's nothing to stop us. We just slip right on down.

• 5:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're like a stick of butter.

• 5:44Corinne Vien?

  Didn't you do the cop slide?

• 5:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was just gonna say, yes. So my friend Anne and I, we went to go see Devil Wears Prada with like a bunch of like girls. And then Anne and I, because Anne lives in my building, or, well, she moved, but she did. And we were walking back, and we're like, we were passing the cop slide in Boston. We just like this famous, massive slide. It's silver, and people were complaining.

• 6:08Corinne Vien?

  That they just put in a couple of years ago. They spent all this money to redo.

• 6:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And people were complaining that it was like dangerous and too fast.

• 6:14Corinne Vien?

  It's super dangerous.

• 6:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And so a cop went and was like, let's see. And there's a video of him like literally flying.

• 6:20Corinne Vien?

  Because he like did it on the news, like in an interview. Well, I'll test it out. Like, that guy got hurt.

• 6:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So we went and did it. Keep in mind, I'd also taken a weed gummy, so I was like scared.

• 6:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, and I was wearing, I feel like I wasn't wearing the appropriate attire to go super fast. Because I didn't go that fast. And I was wearing sneakers. Like, I think if I had taken my shoes off, and, or like put my feet up a little bit, I would have flown. But getting up to the slide is the scariest part.

• 6:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, whoever designed that park is, like, it is not

• 6:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wild.

• 6:50Corinne Vien?

  safe for adults.

• 6:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No.

• 6:52Corinne Vien?

  Definitely not for children.

• 6:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I survived the slide.

• 6:55Corinne Vien?

  Damn.

• 6:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was very fun. It was a fun little adventure.

• 6:57Corinne Vien?

  A little episode of, I survived.

• 6:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But sadly, to transition, not everyone survives life.

• 7:04Corinne Vien?

  This place.

• 7:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Actually, no one survives life, because everyone dies.

• 7:06Corinne Vien?

  Well, and for this episode, we're heading back to the Grand Canyon. Sabrina brought us there last week.

• 7:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On a road trip.

• 7:12Corinne Vien?

  A place that is both a bucket list item for many, but also a place that can swallow people whole.

• 7:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or an anti-bucket list place for you.

• 7:18Corinne Vien?

  Make them disappear. Anti-bucket list, I will never go. Don't drag me there. This place is so vast, so ancient, so dark in its depths, that even scientists and the Rangers and the geologists will admit that there are a lot, well, you've said this too, but there's a lot of it that is unexplored.

• 7:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Untapped.

• 7:35Corinne Vien?

  A lot of it that remains a mystery. Passages, caves, corridors in the rock that no living being has ever stepped foot in, that we know of at least.

• 7:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also the thousands of people who've gone missing over the years that have never been found.

• 7:48Corinne Vien?

  Yep.

• 7:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Where are they?

• 7:49Corinne Vien?

  Oh, great question and wonderful transition.

• 7:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, you're welcome.

• 7:52Corinne Vien?

  Into the first part of my story, which is an unsolved mystery. A young couple disappearing on their honeymoon, and it kind of almost has a Gone Girl style twist.

• 8:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 8:04Corinne Vien?

  But it's still a mystery. So it's like a, could it be?

• 8:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, okay. I'm here for it.

• 8:08Corinne Vien?

  It's November 1929.

• 8:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Good year.

• 8:12Corinne Vien?

  That was such a great year. What even happened?

• 8:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I couldn't tell you.

• 8:18Corinne Vien?

  The clothes got smaller.

• 8:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Flopper dresses, yeah. People were showing their ankles, and the scandal. My gosh.

• 8:23Corinne Vien?

  A young woman is standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon, on the edge of one of the most terrifying and beautiful places on earth. The sun is starting to lower in the sky, and she looks at a little girl standing nearby, glances down at the little girl's shoes, and says aloud, "I wonder if I shall ever wear pretty shoes again." She then begins to head back down into the canyon, never to be seen again. This woman was Bessie Hyde. Born 1905 in Parkersburg, West Virginia, Bessie was, by all counts, a woman who, she was a rule follower. She stayed inside the lines. She went to college at Marshall College.

• 8:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can I ask a clarifying question?

• 8:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Was that her alive, or was that her spirit saying that?

• 9:03Corinne Vien?

  That was her alive.

• 9:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She literally said, "I wonder if I'll ever wear fancy shoes again," and disappeared into the canyon.

• 9:08Corinne Vien?

  Uh huh.

• 9:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, okay.

• 9:10Corinne Vien?

  Yep. Well, I said she followed the rules, but she was also kind of a pioneer at the same time, because she went to Marshall College at a time when a lot of women didn't go to college.

• 9:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Weren't even allowed to go to college.

• 9:21Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 9:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Corinne Vien?

  She studied poetry, she wrote, she moved to San Francisco, she enrolled at the California School of Fine Art. She had an entire collection of unpublished poems called Wandering Leaves. Like, she was, she was an artist. She was

• 9:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Creative.

• 9:35Corinne Vien?

  A feeler. She had gotten, I like barely, I didn't even write half of this, but she did get married to her, like, high school sweetheart, but I think that it was kind of an abusive relationship. So they also, while they got married super young, they divorced super young. And while she was in the process of separating from her husband, in the winter of 1927, Bessie was on a passenger ship traveling from San Francisco to Los Angeles. And on that ship, she meets a man. A man named Glenn Hyde. Glenn Roland Hyde was born in eighteen ninety-eight.

• 10:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love that name. Glenn Roland Hyde.

• 10:12Corinne Vien?

  Glenn Roland Hyde.

• 10:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow, that's a, that rolls off your tongue.

• 10:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it does. It kind of sounds like a movie star name.

• 10:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Corinne Vien?

  Except he was kind of the opposite of the lifestyle of a movie star. He was a super outdoorsman. Tinkerer, like liked to put things together. He had very big dreams, very big personality. Bessie was a little bit more in her feels, quieter, expressed herself through poetry. Expressed herself. Glenn did not. He was very much like a.

• 10:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Closed book.

• 10:40Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Don't feel your feelings.

• 10:42Corinne Vien?

  Don't feel your feelings.

• 10:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:44Corinne Vien?

  Go build a tractor.

• 10:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Go chop some wood.

• 10:47Corinne Vien?

  Exactly.

• 10:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Corinne Vien?

  But opposite to track. And by the time that he met Bessie, he had already accomplished quite a few adventures, such as rowing a hand-built sco- scalp.

• 10:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like that?

• 10:59Corinne Vien?

  I think it's a boat.

• 11:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, okay.

• 11:01Corinne Vien?

  From the Salmon River all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

• 11:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did you see the woman who's sailing or rowing from the US to Hawaii? She's gonna be the first US woman to do it solo. I mean, by the time, yeah, people are tracking her, but by the time this episode comes out, she'll probably have reached there. I think it's gonna take anywhere from like sixty to ninety days.

• 11:22Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god.

• 11:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 11:23Corinne Vien?

  Damn, good for her, but that's really scary.

• 11:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And she does like update videos. I can't even imagine.

• 11:28Corinne Vien?

  Is this the proper time to leave, weather-wise?

• 11:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, I'm sure she did her, her planning and her research.

• 11:34Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 11:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah. Rowing. Hand rowing.

• 11:38Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, not even just sailing. She's hand rowing?

• 11:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Rowing. She, the blisters that she showed, and I think she was, the time we're recording this is end of May, we're recording this. It was day like five or six that she did an update and her hands were so blistered.

• 11:52Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my god.

• 11:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I was like, oh, my god, I can't even.

• 11:53Corinne Vien?

  Is she gonna get like phantom rowing arm, or like when she's sleeping, her arms feel like they're still rowing? I feel like you'd have to.

• 12:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, the amount of prep she probably did for this, she probably has been.

• 12:04Corinne Vien?

  That's wild.

• 12:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Rowing for, rowing for days, years.

• 12:07Corinne Vien?

  I hope she gets the same experience that that woman who like lived in a cave for, what, five hundred days?

• 12:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And she was very happy.

• 12:13Corinne Vien?

  And she was like, what? I thought I was like on day a hundred.

• 12:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 12:16Corinne Vien?

  I hope that this woman is also like, I can't believe I'm already in Hawaii.

• 12:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 12:20Corinne Vien?

  I thought I had so much hunger to go.

• 12:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope so for her to do, for her too.

• 12:23Corinne Vien?

  Man. Okay, but all to say, like, this guy was kind of in a similar interest field where like he liked danger, he liked adventure, he liked to be out there. So kind of the opposite of what Bessie had done where she's like this studious artist who's writing poetry and.

• 12:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I wouldn't picture her.

• 12:42Corinne Vien?

  Living in San Francisco.

• 12:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Living in the woods.

• 12:44Corinne Vien?

  No, definitely not. But he's also kind of got that like bad boy vibe.

• 12:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 12:47Corinne Vien?

  Right?

• 12:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He'll keep you safe.

• 12:49Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or that's what you think.

• 12:51Corinne Vien?

  So Bessie and Glenn, they fall in love fast and hard, but there's one small problem because Bessie is still technically married to Earl, her high school sweetheart. They were not together for some time, but Earl was refusing to grant her a divorce. So that is why.

• 13:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Earl, trying to hold power and control.

• 13:08Corinne Vien?

  Totally. So Bessie, she's smart. She's like, let's not make this an issue. She moves to Elko, Nevada, met the residency requirement, and then herself filed for a divorce. Which I don't know all the like legality of what happened, but like that was kind of like her loophole.

• 13:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 13:23Corinne Vien?

  To file for divorce. And it was eventually accepted by Earl, finalized on April eleventh nineteen twenty-eight. And on April twelfth nineteen twenty-eight, the very next day, she marries Glenn.

• 13:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 13:35Corinne Vien?

  She's twenty-two years old. And Glenn is like, I know the perfect spot for our honeymoon, the Grand Canyon. And.

• 13:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But you know, to eat your own.

• 13:45Corinne Vien?

  Totally. If you're into like.

• 13:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Corinne Vien?

  Sightseeing and light hikes and maybe like going and dining and staying at a hotel or something.

• 13:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I feel like they needed a two-part honeymoon where it's like Glenn's honeymoon and then her honeymoon.

• 13:57Corinne Vien?

  She didn't get her honeymoon at all.

• 13:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Corinne Vien?

  Glenn wanted to boat the entire two hundred and seventy-seven miles of the Colorado River that ran specifically through the Grand Canyon in a homemade wooden boat with no life jackets in the fall.

• 14:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Glenn, that sounds terrible. You don't know your wife at all.

• 14:17Corinne Vien?

  No, but basically like the way that he got her, I guess, to agree to it was that he was like, if you succeed, like if we succeed in doing this, you will be the first documented woman to navigate the entire Colorado River portion of the Grand Canyon.

• 14:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's trying to spin it as like a bonus for her, a good thing to do.

• 14:34Corinne Vien?

  Right. And so in her mind, she's like, oh, my god, I'd get in newspapers, I'd get some.

• 14:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fame.

• 14:40Corinne Vien?

  Celebrity.

• 14:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Corinne Vien?

  And it wasn't about being a famous person, it was about book deals.

• 14:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And yeah, selling her art.

• 14:45Corinne Vien?

  Poetry. And like getting to promote that.

• 14:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 14:48Corinne Vien?

  So she, I guess, that's what got her to agree to this.

• 14:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Say to her.

• 14:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so.

• 14:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Am I allowed to not trust Glenn?

• 14:55Corinne Vien?

  Totally.

• 14:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, good. Cause I already don't trust him.

• 14:57Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 14:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just don't want to be wrong in my not trusting him.

• 15:00Corinne Vien?

  We don't know.

• 15:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I don't trust him. I feel like it's safe to say.

• 15:05Corinne Vien?

  Glenn's showing some signs of not being the most trustworthy.

• 15:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 15:09Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so they got married in April. He's like, let's go in the fall and do this. So he has time to build the boat himself. It takes him two days to build the boat. He had months, but it took him two days and fifty dollars

• 15:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 15:21Corinne Vien?

  to build a boat that's supposed to support them through dangerous rapids through the entire Grand Canyon. With his new bride, he, that he's responsible for keeping safe. So it is a twenty-foot-long boat with a flat bottom, long wooden oars for steering, no motor, no safety equipment.

• 15:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 15:38Corinne Vien?

  Just enough room for the two of them, a place to sleep, they're sleeping in the boat.

• 15:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Corinne Vien?

  Food, supplies, her journal, and a camera. And I can't really zoom in that well, but let me just.

• 15:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 15:51Corinne Vien?

  It like looks really funky. And if you're watching on YouTube, you'll be able to see a picture. And if you're not, you can just Google it. So they named the boat Rain in the Face.

• 16:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting. Okay, Rain in the Face.

• 16:04Corinne Vien?

  Rain in the Face. Well, there's no real covering. They're definitely gonna get.

• 16:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Gets.

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  Rain in the Face.

• 16:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Lots of Rain in the Face. I feel like these two-part episodes are really reminding me of Apex, that movie.

• 16:16Corinne Vien?

  I love the, I haven't seen it.

• 16:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But the, the sound that's sending.

• 16:19Corinne Vien?

  The song and everyone's like.

• 16:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought you liked danger.

• 16:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Got to the end of the song. Yeah.

• 16:26Corinne Vien?

  It does kind of have that feeling.

• 16:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 16:28Corinne Vien?

  So now they've been married for a few months. Fall is here and they're ready to begin their honeymoon.

• 16:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And get Rain in the Face.

• 16:34Corinne Vien?

  And get Rain in the Face. October twentieth nineteen twenty-eight, Glenn and Bessie Hyde launch from Green River, Utah. Their plan is to float down the Green River, connect to the Colorado River, run through the Grand Canyon, and then arrive in Needles, California by December ninth. So they're leaving.

• 16:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's over about a month?

• 16:53Corinne Vien?

  It's.

• 16:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  November through December?

• 16:55Corinne Vien?

  A week sh- or a week and a half shy of two months.

• 16:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 16:59Corinne Vien?

  Long journey. So they would stop and resupply along the way, and Glenn's father Roland Hyde would be waiting for them in California. So Bessie brings with her her camera and her journal, and she journals almost every day about their adventure.

• 17:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 17:13Corinne Vien?

  According to Bessie's journal, the first leg of the trip is actually going really well. She wrote that they were way ahead of schedule, the river was intense, it moved really fast, they had some scary moments, but like overall, she felt really exhilarated by it. So like she's actually enjoying her time.

• 17:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'm sure it's inspirational as like a poet to see nature that way.

• 17:30Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You watch, make Glenn do all the rowing and you're just there.

• 17:34Corinne Vien?

  All the poetry.

• 17:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Writing poetry. Yeah.

• 17:37Corinne Vien?

  The river waters.

• 17:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  About the rain in your face. I, sorry, I can't get past that detail.

• 17:41Corinne Vien?

  Rain in the Face. Early in the trip, Glenn actually fell out of the boat on a rapid.

• 17:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Corinne Vien?

  He went fully into the Colorado River. This was in October, so it was like right when they first started. He managed to get back into the boat, kept rowing, could have died, but whatever, he survived. So they were like, no worries, not a bad omen at all, let's just keep going.

• 18:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But also I expect that if you're doing this trip, you would expect to fall in at least once.

• 18:08Corinne Vien?

  Probably.

• 18:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause rapids are dangerous.

• 18:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, they are. This made me flashback to when I did Blackwater rafting in Peru.

• 18:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 18:15Corinne Vien?

  And my teacher fell out as we went down a waterfall.

• 18:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Terrifying.

• 18:18Corinne Vien?

  But I plucked her out of the waterfall.

• 18:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank god you were there.

• 18:22Corinne Vien?

  I am Apex.

• 18:26Corinne Vien?

  I don't have a butt, but I have superhuman strength.

• 18:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You do, you have a dump truck now.

• 18:30Corinne Vien?

  About to drown in a different country. Okay. So now they're about a month in. It's November sixteenth, and they arrive to an area that's called the Grand Canyon Village. It's on the South Rim. They hack up the Bright Angel Trail to resupply, but this is where things get a little bit interesting. So on the South Rim, Glenn and Bessie walk into the studio of a man named Emory Kolb. And the Kolb brothers in this area are legendary. They're like super famous photographers.

• 18:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hi.

• 18:57Corinne Vien?

  Emory and Ellsworth Kolb had built a studio that's literally hanging on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

• 19:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Does it still exist?

• 19:04Corinne Vien?

  I think so. I think that this is the picture that I'm including in the YouTube. It's like a modern day picture of their studio.

• 19:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:10Corinne Vien?

  It's like right there.

• 19:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's wild.

• 19:12Corinne Vien?

  On the cliff face.

• 19:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Beautiful.

• 19:13Corinne Vien?

  So beautiful. So these are iconic, famous photographers that they're meeting. And in nineteen twenty-eight, Emory was one of the most knowledgeable people alive when it came to the Colorado River.

• 19:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 19:26Corinne Vien?

  So Glenn and Bessie, they knock on his door, they introduce themselves, and Emory took them in, fed them, showed them around. He liked the couple immediately, but there were some things that he noted that were like strange for the tale that they were.

• 19:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Strangers showing up at your door. Red flag number one.

• 19:43Corinne Vien?

  I guess in the, in the early nineteen hundreds, it was totally fine. I don't know if like he was like a known person to go to for like knowledge or like a pit stop or something. I have no idea how, like why this was an encounter.

• 19:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 19:55Corinne Vien?

  But basically he was like, okay, well, I don't see any life jackets. That's weird.

• 19:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's very weird.

• 20:00Corinne Vien?

  Super weird. And so he brought it up. He was like, where are your life jackets? And he said that Glenn laughed and said they didn't have any. And so Emory was like, okay, no problem. I'll get you some. And Glenn's like, no, we don't need any. Which is like, you're not getting a prize for going down the river with no life jacket.

• 20:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Like, just have it near you.

• 20:18Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You don't need to wear it the whole time. Don't worry, the tan lines will go away.

• 20:23Corinne Vien?

  It's, it's so, what tan lines? It's the winter.

• 20:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, that's true.

• 20:29Corinne Vien?

  Emory later said that Bessie seemed hesitant too, like she seemed really tired. She seemed like she wasn't really sure if she wanted to go back to the boat. She seemed ready to quit. That was kind of like the vibe he was getting from her. And so he offered them a room, not just for the night, but like to winter. Like, hey, if you want to like, stop your journey right now and just hang out here. Yeah. But they declined. And he was like, well, what about like a few days of rest? And Glenn was like, no, we don't need that. We have a schedule to keep. We have a record to break. My wife has to be famous.

• 21:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, Glenn.

• 21:02Corinne Vien?

  So Emory's like, okay, I did what I could. He's a famous photographer. He grabs his camera and he takes their photograph. Glenn and Bessie standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon, squinting in the November sun. Bessie's hair is pinned up. She's wearing a coat.

• 21:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was gonna say, she looks fabulous. She does. She does not look like she's traveling the river.

• 21:22Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, Glenn is beside her. He's confident. I'd say he looks a lot older than he is. Cause he is doing stressful events often.

• 21:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, also this is the thing is back then, people could lie about literally anything and there's no way to fact check it.

• 21:37Corinne Vien?

  That's true.

• 21:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You could have lied about how old he was.

• 21:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 21:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For all we know.

• 21:40Corinne Vien?

  They seem generally happy in this photo.

• 21:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But a photo, it's very easy to lie in a photo.

• 21:44Corinne Vien?

  And this is the last photo that will ever be taken of them alive, forever.

• 21:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sad.

• 21:51Corinne Vien?

  So they get their photo taken and then they stand up to head back down the path to go down to the river. Emory's young daughter comes out to say goodbye. She's wearing a lovely dress and a nice pair of shoes. This is the girl from the beginning.

• 22:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, okay.

• 22:04Corinne Vien?

  So Bessie stops, looks down at the little girl's shoes and says, I wonder if I shall ever wear pretty shoes again.

• 22:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is a very weird statement to make.

• 22:13Corinne Vien?

  Especially given that Emory was like, she looked really defeated.

• 22:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 22:16Corinne Vien?

  And almost made it seem like she was like, I don't know if I'll get out of here alive.

• 22:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Which could mean that the last however long they've been on the river has been so trying that she's like, I don't know if I will make it through more of this.

• 22:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or there's an indication that she literally won't come back alive because of some other.

• 22:35Corinne Vien?

  Well, because if she thinks that she's gonna make it, wouldn't, wouldn't she say like, oh, I can't wait. I can't wait to wear pretty shoes again. Right?

• 22:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Poor Bessie.

• 22:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 22:46Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org/gettingbetter. Because your beliefs are yours and theirs are theirs.

• 23:47Speaker 04

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• 24:17Corinne Vien?

  On November 18th, 1928, Glenn and Bessie reached the bottom of Bright Angel Trail. They got back in rain in the face and a push off from shore. They had one more companion for part of the day. So they actually were seen again after this photograph.

• 24:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 24:33Corinne Vien?

  A man named Adolf Sutro, the grandson of the famous San Francisco mayor, happened to be in the Grand Canyon and found them.

• 24:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just hanging out.

• 24:42Corinne Vien?

  Just, just there.

• 24:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's the place to be.

• 24:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, he found this couple and their boat really fascinating and he was like, what are you guys doing? Asking some questions. They're talking and he was like, do you mind if I like get in the boat and ride with you down river for a couple of miles? Like, this seems fun. And Glenn is like, sure, come on, join us. So Sutro joined them and he rode all the way to Hermit Rapid, one of the canyon's most infamous stretches of whitewater. At Hermit Rapid, Sutro got out and then he hiked a few miles like back up.

• 25:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also impressive. Yeah, seriously.

• 25:12Corinne Vien?

  Glenn and Bessie Hyde rode rain in the face into Hermit Rapid and then disappeared around the bend. So that would make Adolf the last person to see Glenn and Bessie.

• 25:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ever.

• 25:23Corinne Vien?

  Ever. Bessie's journal kept going for 12 more days.

• 25:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, interesting.

• 25:27Corinne Vien?

  The last entry was written on November 30th, 1928, somewhere near Diamond Creek.

• 25:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So just 10 days before they were supposed to meet Glenn's dad.

• 25:36Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

• 25:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 25:37Corinne Vien?

  She noted that they had cleared the 231 mile rapid. So they had basically like a little bit less than 50 miles of river to go. Like they, they're far.

• 25:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They've made it a long way.

• 25:49Corinne Vien?

  Yes. She gave no indication that anything was wrong. She believed that they were very close to the end. And then the journal stops. No more entries. On December 9th, the day that they're supposed to arrive in Needles, California and meet Glenn's father Roland. There's no word for, from Glenn or Bessie. And he's like, okay.

• 26:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, maybe a slight delay.

• 26:08Corinne Vien?

  Right? Like it could, it could be a few extra days. You don't know like what they got caught up in. Maybe there was bad weather at some point. They had to stay overnight at a couple places, whatever. By December 19th, so another 10 days, Roland is frantic. He has not heard anything from them. He is absolutely panicked. So he boards a train and heads to the canyon because he's in California, waiting in an entirely different spot. And this is when a search party is sent out because they're alerted. Now the area is like, okay, there's a missing couple because Roland is like, there are two people missing.

• 26:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 26:37Corinne Vien?

  And I believe the photographers actually are the ones that like put together the search party.

• 26:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause they have some investment, like they met them. Yeah.

• 26:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And they're really familiar with the area.

• 26:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Corinne Vien?

  They're a huge part of the community. A small airplane is hired to fly through the inner gorge of the canyon. And just one day later, on December 20th, the pilot spots something floating in the Colorado River, about 140 miles from where the hides were last seen. It's the boat, Rain in the Face. So eagerly, the search party scrambles down river to get to this boat. And they find the boat. It's sitting there. It's upright. It's intact. All of the supplies are still strapped in. There's food, clothes, books, Bessie's camera, Bessie's journal.

• 27:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. I was wondering how they have the records of it.

• 27:20Corinne Vien?

  It literally looks like they got out to go like pee or something.

• 27:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's like tied up essentially on the side of the river.

• 27:25Corinne Vien?

  I don't know that it's tied up.

• 27:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 27:28Corinne Vien?

  I didn't read that.

• 27:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. Cause I feel like it's pulled to the side. Okay.

• 27:33Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cause it's, it's one of those things where, because clearly we, we know that they've never been found, like, is it miles away from where they disappeared or is it they pulled off, got out and like they must be somewhere near there?

• 27:47Corinne Vien?

  Well, so it's found at mile 237. So it's just a few miles down from the last journal entry that Bessie made.

• 27:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  231? Was that where they read the diary?

• 27:55Corinne Vien?

  They were at, she had said that they cleared 231. So they were somewhere in between there.

• 27:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Corinne Vien?

  Like she could have been sitting here journaling.

• 28:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Wow.

• 28:03Corinne Vien?

  And so everything is there.

• 28:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But them.

• 28:05Corinne Vien?

  But them. And the final, final photograph from her camera was taken a long time before at River Mile 165. So that would have put them around like November 27th ish. So that means that in those last few days, they covered at least 60 miles of river, which is a lot.

• 28:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 28:24Corinne Vien?

  And they were like so close to the end. River historian Otis Marston, who spent decades studying the Colorado River, believes that the most likely explanation is that Rain in the Face got stuck on some submerged rocks somewhere near mile 232. Because he said that this stretch of canyon is known to be pretty destructive. Known to take boats out because of all the like hidden rocks underneath. So he was like, oh, it has to be damaged and maybe it got capsized, something like that. Like.

• 28:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The boat was fine.

• 28:53Corinne Vien?

  The boat was fine. So that theory that that happened and that they were like forced to leave their boat or that they like fell out and drowned. Makes zero sense. They have the evidence of the boat.

• 29:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They could have fallen out. One of them could have fallen out. The other maybe tried to get the other one. They fell out. And like, the boat was fine, but they were not.

• 29:11Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah, it's hard.

• 29:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Corinne Vien?

  Cause everything's strapped in perfectly. So like, part of me is like, oh, well, wouldn't there be like somewhat of like a ruckus? But I guess not. Cause if everything's strapped in, it's just like your singular body that's leaving the craft. So the theory that most historians accept is that somehow they got into the river and were swept away and drowned.

• 29:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And drowned.

• 29:33Corinne Vien?

  So they're like, this is the most logical, two people in a homemade wooden boat with no life jackets and freezing November water in one of the most dangerous river systems in North America, simply the canyon killed them. Like that's just part of the risk.

• 29:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 29:47Corinne Vien?

  Killed others before, it would kill others after.

• 29:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Corinne Vien?

  But this is where things get a little bit more complicated. So a completely intact boat with everything strapped in, not consistent with being capsized at all.

• 29:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 29:59Corinne Vien?

  The boat was tidy. Nothing was broken. It looks like someone had navigated the boat to shore and stepped out for a moment. And this brings us back to what Emory Kolb, the photographer, said. He said, Bessie seemed ready to quit. She was tired and she also seemed a little bit scared. Glenn, by multiple accounts, including Emory's, seemed very annoyed with her. The whole time that they were interacting with others. He seemed dismissive of her discomfort and like he wasn't going to stop for anything. Bessie's own brother later said that she hadn't told the family about the trip.

• 30:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bessie.

• 30:31Corinne Vien?

  She kept it from them.

• 30:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Rule number one, tell people where you're going, especially if you're going to the wilderness with a man.

• 30:37Corinne Vien?

  It sounded kind of like they maybe would have like really discouraged her from going. And I don't know what they thought about Glenn. There was nothing about like him having a temper or anything like that. But Bessie's brother mentioned that her first husband, Earl Helmick, the high school sweetheart, had a pretty violent temper. So.

• 30:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. And they knew about that.

• 30:59Corinne Vien?

  They knew about that.

• 31:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it also does seem like she moved away too in order to be with Glenn. So like the family theoretically didn't have as much contact or like in person time with her and Glenn to know what the relationship was like.

• 31:13Corinne Vien?

  True. But maybe they were suspicious that this guy was a similar personality. And then there's a strange theory that involves Emory Kolb. So Emory Kolb died in 1976 and his grandson, when going through the studio, found a human skull. The human skull had a bullet wound in the skull, hidden under a ledge.

• 31:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I wasn't expecting this.

• 31:34Corinne Vien?

  Along with some clothes and a revolver. The remains were eventually examined by forensic anthropologists who compared it to photographs of Glenn and said that he did not think it was Glenn because the bone structure, the eye orbits, the chin shape seemed inconsistent. But people were like, well, then who is it? And how do you truly know? And so kind of like the theory is that

• 31:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He killed-

• 31:57Corinne Vien?

  He killed Glenn to help Bessie escape and start a new life and that she like kept journaling-

• 32:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was like, Bessie is gone. Like she's in the wind. That's the gone girl.

• 32:06Corinne Vien?

  She started-

• 32:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 32:08Corinne Vien?

  Again, she left her journal.

• 32:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was picturing Apex where he's like a full predator. And so in the movie Apex, it went out, it came out months and months ago. So sorry if this is a spoiler.

• 32:18Corinne Vien?

  Netflix or something.

• 32:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's on Netflix. Yeah. The title is confusing because like it makes you think it's like something else, but it's like a survival horror thriller. It's so good. But the guy is a predator and he like kills people and has like a cave where all of his like killings are. And I can imagine this guy who's so well versed in the-

• 32:38Corinne Vien?

  Knows the river system better than anyone else.

• 32:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The river system has a layer of-

• 32:43Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 32:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  People.

• 32:44Corinne Vien?

  Right. And it would be easy for him to track

• 32:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:47Corinne Vien?

  them down.

• 32:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep.

• 32:48Corinne Vien?

  But he also wasn't the last person to see them alive. But that's not to say-

• 32:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That doesn't say he couldn't follow them.

• 32:53Corinne Vien?

  Few miles away.

• 32:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Corinne Vien?

  Like where the boat was seen.

• 32:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. I like that theory though, that Bessie got away and she's still alive.

• 33:00Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not now, but that she lived on and had a happier life.

• 33:05Corinne Vien?

  And then there's an admission from someone.

• 33:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 33:08Corinne Vien?

  In 1971, 43 years after Glenn and Bessie disappeared, a commercial rafting tour was floating through the Grand Canyon and a group was gathered around a campfire one evening and an elderly woman who was on the tour suddenly made an announcement and she said, I'm Bessie Hyde.

• 33:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just got chills.

• 33:25Corinne Vien?

  And the crew goes, I'm me too.

• 33:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like how you grabbed your boob.

• 33:29Corinne Vien?

  They're, they're strong right now. The group went really quiet and the river guy named George Billingsley half jokingly said, well, then what did you do with Glenn? And the woman didn't look up. She kept her gaze where it was and just said, I killed him. And then she went on like with more questioning to say that they had a violent fight. And so she stabbed him and she hiked out alone to Peach Springs, Arizona, caught a bus, went to the east coast, I think. Assumed a new identity and lived her life and that her name was Elizabeth Cutler. She went by Liz.

• 34:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I was gonna ask, we have her name.

• 34:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. But then a reporter tracked her down and she denied it when the reporter asked and was like, I've never heard of the Hides. I just made it up. Which is like, okay, well, that's weird.

• 34:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's super weird. Or was Bessie, like, did Bessie do that? Unfortunately die in like the trying to get out of the canyon or many years later died, came back, is haunting the Grand Canyon, momentarily possessed this woman.

• 34:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 34:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And shared her story.

• 34:32Corinne Vien?

  Interesting. I don't know. It's strange.

• 34:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I mean, we're not gonna get any answers right into this.

• 34:37Corinne Vien?

  It's unsolved.

• 34:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's theorizing.

• 34:39Corinne Vien?

  There's also another woman named Georgie Clark, a famous river runner who became legendary for her Grand Canyon trips beginning in the 1940s. And when she died in 1992, friends going through her belongings found the marriage license for Glenn and Bessie, which why would this woman have Glenn and Bessie Hyde's marriage license?

• 35:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, unless you can like order a record.

• 35:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 35:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But like, why would she do that?

• 35:06Corinne Vien?

  And apparently her birth name wasn't actually Georgie. It was Bessie De Ross. And there was also a pistol in her lingerie drawer. So it's all confusing because there's different people.

• 35:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Interesting.

• 35:16Corinne Vien?

  Historian Brad Dimmick, who literally wrote a boat, a, well, a boat, a book on this case called The Sunk Without a Sound, examined Georgie's photos and compared them to Bessie. And he said that they're not the same person. How do you know?

• 35:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 35:31Corinne Vien?

  What we do know is that Glenn and Bessie Hyde disappeared. Bones have never been found. Their boat ran in the face, was cut loose after the investigation where it floated down the river and was just swallowed by the river at some point.

• 35:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They didn't take it out?

• 35:42Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 35:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Huh.

• 35:43Corinne Vien?

  And the Grand Canyon is dangerous. It can kill you. It can bury you. It can hold your secrets forever. Or sometimes it can be the excuse to let you disappear and start fresh.

• 35:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Huh. I like the idea of starting fresh. I just don't know if that's realistic.

• 35:59Corinne Vien?

  I know. It's a fun theory.

• 36:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Would make a good movie.

• 36:03Corinne Vien?

  It would. But then also it's like, well, what else happened on that boat?

• 36:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It also reminds me-

• 36:09Corinne Vien?

  With the first husband where like,

• 36:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 36:11Corinne Vien?

  Did she just feel like there's no way out where this is gonna take me forever if I don't just go now?

• 36:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It reminds me very sadly of the Gabby Petito case.

• 36:20Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like when she went missing and we know now that she was murdered horribly. But just like the conspiracies and like the way the internet took to it was like getting so involved and invested in it.

• 36:33Corinne Vien?

  Right. Well, there's still conspiracies because it's like, his family never held a funeral for him.

• 36:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Corinne Vien?

  It's just like weird things for you to like-

• 36:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So strange.

• 36:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 36:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. It's, it's also just wild. I mean, also this was like 1929, right? So I feel like when people went missing then, it makes sense to me that you don't have as many answers.

• 36:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 36:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's confounding to me today that people can go missing and just vanish without a trace. With all the technology that we have and cameras everywhere, it's crazy to me that people can just disappear.

• 37:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Although there's someone in Brian's family that kind of did that.

• 37:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Really?

• 37:09Corinne Vien?

  His grandfather.

• 37:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What do you mean? Recently?

• 37:11Corinne Vien?

  I think like, they like generally know. No, he left, he abandoned their family like really young and moved to California and started a new family. But I think that's like all they knew.

• 37:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. But he didn't like vanish.

• 37:23Corinne Vien?

  But like-

• 37:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In a way, yes.

• 37:25Corinne Vien?

  In a way.

• 37:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:26Corinne Vien?

  Or like that was the story that they were told.

• 37:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crazy. My dad did that, but I know where he is.

• 37:31Corinne Vien?

  You have his cell phone number still.

• 37:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. He calls when it's convenient.

• 37:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's hard because I also have a second cousin who did vanish, but drugs were involved. So.

• 37:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So sad.

• 37:44Corinne Vien?

  It is. Yeah. Okay. So that is one of like the famous, it's like the, the disappearance of the honeymooners or whatever.

• 37:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Corinne Vien?

  So if you ever see that, like it's most likely referencing this couple in the Grand Canyon.

• 37:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Although there are many others. There's like a whole expedition in the Grand Canyon where people went missing. Cause when you look up like Grand Canyon mysteries, there's a couple that come up and the, the two that we've covered are amongst like the top five that come up.

• 38:09Corinne Vien?

  Most famous.

• 38:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But there are a lot of them.

• 38:11Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. But people still travels through the Grand Canyon and some people travel hundreds of feet underground to stay in a hotel.

• 38:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cool in concept.

• 38:21Corinne Vien?

  Cool in concept. Not just a unique stay, but a haunted stay. This is the Grand Canyon Cavern Suite. So I could have written so much more about this. This easily could have been another, like a three part.

• 38:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Corinne Vien?

  But I wanted to include something paranormal. So I'm gonna try to make it as brief as possible while still giving appropriate information.

• 38:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 38:42Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So in 1927, the same year that Glenn Hyde was making his solo river run, dreaming up this honeymoon adventure with Bessie one day, a man named Walter Peck was doing something much more ordinary. He was heading to a poker game.

• 38:58Corinne Vien?

  Walter worked for the Santa Fe Railroad and he was making his way along the trail near Palm Springs, Arizona, which is about 50 miles west of the Grand Canyon's south rim. So he's out there and suddenly his horse stops. It's spooked and it's like throwing Walter on, on its back. And Walter, he like fell off the horse and nearly fell into a hole. And it's not just a small hole. This is like a funnel shaped opening in the ground.

• 39:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Reminds me of the holes movie.

• 39:25Corinne Vien?

  Oh, Kiss and Kate Barlow.

• 39:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stanley Yonatz.

• 39:28Corinne Vien?

  Uh, it's about eight feet across and it seemed to go down into total darkness with no clear bottom.

• 39:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He literally stumbled upon it.

• 39:37Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 39:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Riding his horse to his poker game.

• 39:39Corinne Vien?

  Wow. So Walter moved on, probably went to his poker game. And then he came back the next morning with a rope and a couple of friends and they rappelled down to see how far they could go. They get down 150 feet into the dark and Walter is watching the earth's surface like around him as he's rappelling. The walls are sparkling and he's like, oh my God, there's diamonds. There's gold. We hit the jackpot. And so he goes back up with his friends and they're all like, hush, hush, hush, like keep this-

• 40:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. Don't tell anyone about it.

• 40:10Corinne Vien?

  We are gonna be so rich. And so he immediately bought rights to the property surrounding the hole before anyone else could find it and stake their claim. Now he owns this mine.

• 40:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cave. Yeah.

• 40:21Corinne Vien?

  And he gets the rock samples tested. Iron oxide, rust and selenite crystals, not gold.

• 40:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Crystals.

• 40:31Corinne Vien?

  Not diamonds.

• 40:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hey, there's a big crystal business.

• 40:34Corinne Vien?

  A big market today. Back then, not so much. So yeah, he basically in a way spent his money.

• 40:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  On something he thought could be promising. Yeah. But I get it.

• 40:44Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Yeah. You gotta just strike while you're hot.

• 40:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Corinne Vien?

  You never know.

• 40:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Take risks.

• 40:48Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So he did what any reasonable man in the American Southwest in 1927 would do. He started charging people to go down the hole on a rope because he needed to make money, right? He just bought this hole. So 25 cents a head, BYOL, bring your own lantern.

• 41:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I would say ladder, 150 foot ladder. They started calling it the dope on a rope tour.

• 41:12Corinne Vien?

  And over the years, the cavern developed into like more of a proper tourist attraction. So eventually there were stairs, lights, an elevator, a restaurant, a gift shop.

• 41:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What?

• 41:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Do we have pictures of this?

• 41:25Corinne Vien?

  I do have a picture of like the hotel room.

• 41:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Today? Okay.

• 41:28Corinne Vien?

  Well, I have a couple of pictures coming.

• 41:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 41:29Corinne Vien?

  So the cavern was renamed several times, but eventually landed on the Grand Canyon Caverns in nineteen sixty-two.

• 41:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And like fifty miles from the south rim?

• 41:38Corinne Vien?

  Yes, but it's connected underground through the, to the Grand Canyon itself.

• 41:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is also crazy. That proves that there's so much more to the Grand Canyon.

• 41:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 41:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And how far reaching it is.

• 41:49Corinne Vien?

  Go down here and follow the cave fifty miles and pop out in the Grand Canyon.

• 41:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Caves are crazy. Like, how do they withstand the pressure and like movement of land? Yeah. Which is also probably why the Grand Canyon caves are not explored because it's very dangerous.

• 42:03Corinne Vien?

  Okay, so it seems like they're, they're on to something. Things are cool. This is becoming a cool attraction.

• 42:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cool.

• 42:08Corinne Vien?

  But there's one thing to note, and that is that when Walter Peck first rappelled down with his friends years before, they actually found two sets of human remains and didn't tell anyone right away.

• 42:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Glenn and Bessie?

• 42:21Corinne Vien?

  No, I wish. That would have been such a good tie-in. Unfortunately, it was the remains. Well, they were identified because they, they were purposefully put there. It was two Huolapai brothers. They were woodcutters who had died from influenza in the brutal winter of nineteen seventeen. And so their fellow tribes members had buried them there, not realizing that the hole that they were lowering them into wasn't just a hole, but like a

• 42:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like a cave.

• 42:49Corinne Vien?

  Entrance into an enormous cave system.

• 42:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, wow. Wait, amazing that they were able to track specifically who it was.

• 42:55Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I mean, it wasn't that much.

• 42:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like ten, eleven years? Nineteen seventeen and they found this in nineteen twenty-seven?

• 43:03Corinne Vien?

  It was ten years later. Yeah, they found it. Yeah. But this reminds me of the last week's episode. You were talking about all the just like different mummified or like all the bodies down there in the caves. And it made me think like, what is this, a practice? That's normal for lowering bodies into caves or like bringing them into systems.

• 43:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 43:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. So the two men were entombed inside the earth, a hundred and fifty feet down, alone in the dark for a decade, before Walter and his friends

• 43:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Stumbled upon them.

• 43:34Corinne Vien?

  Rediscovered them accidentally. Yep. So he kind of interrupted a burial place, though they were identified and moved

• 43:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:42Corinne Vien?

  properly.

• 43:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. And like you said, the, the natives who buried them there didn't realize it was a cave.

• 43:49Corinne Vien?

  Right, yeah. They thought it was more of just like a burial hole.

• 43:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:52Corinne Vien?

  I guess. Fast forward to nineteen sixty-two, the Cuban Missile Crisis. President John F. Kennedy is looking for places to put people if bombs start falling. And someone suggests the Grand Canyon Caverns. And he's like, wait, this makes sense. They're insulated, they're underground, they're dry. The temperature stays at a constant fifty-six degrees, regardless of what's happening at the surface.

• 44:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Freezing.

• 44:14Corinne Vien?

  It gets airflow that travels through the cave system. And so the government's like, hell, yeah, this is our new fallout shelter. So they actually stock it with supplies, enough supplies to support two thousand people for two weeks. There's steel drums of iodine treated water.

• 44:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Cave.

• 44:30Corinne Vien?

  Yes, there's, you can still see it. If you go on tour, you still see the supplies.

• 44:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Enough for two thousand people?

• 44:34Corinne Vien?

  Yep. Cases of food rations, medical supplies, emergency equipment. Here, I made the picture so small in my research, but you can see like parts where it's stockpiled. It's so fascinating.

• 44:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That is wild. Also, like, it's not the most convenient location. Like, people wouldn't be able to get there within minutes.

• 44:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I guess not. Run, run.

• 44:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And then who is allowed, yeah, who are the lucky two thousand?

• 44:58Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. Right? Because it is such a small number.

• 45:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 45:01Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, there's medical supplies, emergency equipment, food rations, water.

• 45:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 45:05Corinne Vien?

  All the stuff. The supplies are, I think all of it is still down there because it was never used.

• 45:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 45:10Corinne Vien?

  They didn't bother spending the time and resources and money to remove it. So it just sits in the cave perfectly preserved in the dry, dark cave for you to see on your tour.

• 45:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Not a terrible place to get stuck if you need

• 45:21Corinne Vien?

  Nope.

• 45:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  If you needed to get stuck somewhere, I'd pick there.

• 45:24Corinne Vien?

  Are also skeletons.

• 45:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Real ones?

• 45:27Corinne Vien?

  And mummies.

• 45:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Real ones?

• 45:28Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 45:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why?

• 45:30Corinne Vien?

  Well, there's a skeleton of a prehistoric and very much extinct giant ground sloth that was found down there.

• 45:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Again, why?

• 45:39Corinne Vien?

  Why? Well, so her name

• 45:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was found there.

• 45:41Corinne Vien?

  It was found there.

• 45:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, okay.

• 45:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so they did actually remove her. Her name is Gertie. She's fifteen feet tall. She would have weighed

• 45:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Fifteen feet tall?

• 45:51Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, giant ground sloth. Prehistoric.

• 45:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know, but I thought still giant, like, thought maybe five feet.

• 45:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, no. The sloths were huge.

• 46:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because sloths are small nowadays.

• 46:02Corinne Vien?

  Are you not into the conspiracy about like the sloths still existing in like South America?

• 46:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I have not ventured there.

• 46:08Corinne Vien?

  Okay. I get too far into my eyeballs. So she would have weighed around two thousand pounds. She died there sometime in the last ice age. And where she was found on the limestone walls around her are clot marks. So she like fell in and was trying to get out.

• 46:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Gertie.

• 46:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And so that is where, that's like why she was there.

• 46:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That breaks my heart, Gertie.

• 46:31Corinne Vien?

  And it's like perfect conditions for her to be mummified.

• 46:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Aww.

• 46:35Corinne Vien?

  Um, so they did remove her remains, but they put a replica of her up. So you can see like, oh, in the general area where she was found.

• 46:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 46:44Corinne Vien?

  There's like a giant furry ground sloth just like hanging there.

• 46:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 46:48Corinne Vien?

  But she's not alone because there's also a mummified, actually, is he mummified? I think he is. A mummified bobcat named Bob.

• 46:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, so not human mummies. We're talking like animals.

• 47:00Corinne Vien?

  Animals.

• 47:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, okay.

• 47:01Corinne Vien?

  But again, you were saying like, could remains, could people in the cave system look mummified because of the particular conditions of the cave?

• 47:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And the answer is yes.

• 47:11Corinne Vien?

  The answer is yes, we literally have evidence of it.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Hey, everyone. This is Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. You know what you believe. Maybe your faith is at the center of your life. Maybe you're still figuring it out. Maybe religion just isn't your thing. Those choices are personal, and in America, they should stay personal. That's why Americans United for Separation of Church and State is fighting for something that affects all of us. The freedom to live as yourself and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. Because religious freedom isn't just about protecting your right to practice or not. And it surely isn't about having one forced government sanctioned religion.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  It's about protecting your right to say, this is what I believe, while your neighbor says, I believe something completely different. And honestly, that's the whole point. If that sounds like the kind of America you want, learn more at au.org slash getting better, because your beliefs are yours and theirs are theirs.

• 48:16Speaker 04

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• 48:46Corinne Vien?

  So all of this, if it sounds very exciting to you and you want to go, may I pitch, you take it one step further and stay the night in the hotel room.

• 48:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Singular, one hotel room?

• 48:56Corinne Vien?

  One hotel room.

• 48:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 48:57Corinne Vien?

  You take the elevator down from the surface, two hundred and ten feet underground. The elevator still has the fallout shelter signage, so it's like very creepy. The doors will open and you walk into a Grand Canyon cavern suite. It's like some sort of network of stone corridors and then you're in a hotel room.

• 49:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow.

• 49:15Corinne Vien?

  According to their website, the Grand Canyon cavern suite is the oldest, darkest, deepest, quietest and largest suite room in the world.

• 49:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can you get room service?

• 49:24Corinne Vien?

  No, you cannot. You can't even get television.

• 49:29Corinne Vien?

  How will you watch Apex?

• 49:32Corinne Vien?

  It has a bed, a couch, books, board games. It has a generator, uh, because there's no power source down there. And they do have a TV, but I think they have like movies that you have

• 49:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  VHS, yeah.

• 49:42Corinne Vien?

  And at some point, I think the generator kicks off because

• 49:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I don't think you're going down there to watch TV. Like, you're not going there to watch Summer House. You're going down there to experience

• 49:52Corinne Vien?

  To just be there.

• 49:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The cave.

• 49:53Corinne Vien?

  It costs about a thousand dollars a night. The rock down there is half a billion years old. It absorbs all sound.

• 50:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So no one will hear you scream?

• 50:01Corinne Vien?

  No. And everything was saying like, when the generator, when the generator kicks off, you'll be in total darkness, which made me think that it does, it's like on a timer. Like, you can't control it and just keep the lights on the whole time. I'm not sure. But basically it sounded like you're going to be in like a deprivation tank at some point where there's like no sound, no light. And people have described it as feeling like they ceased to exist. So let me show you.

• 50:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That gave me like a stomach ache.

• 50:27Corinne Vien?

  It's not a bad setup.

• 50:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, look at the colorful lights.

• 50:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It feels very retro.

• 50:33Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm. It also kind of reminds me in college when people would, it was always boys.

• 50:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, it looks like a boys' college dorm room.

• 50:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, or like when they would put someone in the garage and they turn

• 50:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The garage into a room.

• 50:45Corinne Vien?

  Bedroom.

• 50:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 50:45Corinne Vien?

  Now, there have been several guests who have not been able to stay the whole night because it is haunted. The most common report is that rocks are thrown through the room. So it's like dangerous. I don't know.

• 50:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, possibly Bigfoot might be lurking through the cave systems.

• 51:01Corinne Vien?

  Maybe. Invisible, just in there with you.

• 51:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Corinne Vien?

  One guest described a rock hitting the headboard with such force, it woke them from a dead sleep.

• 51:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank God it didn't hit their heads.

• 51:11Corinne Vien?

  From the link. It's

• 51:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like targeted.

• 51:13Corinne Vien?

  Yes. After the Grand Canyon Caverns appeared on an episode of Ghost Adventures, because where have they not been?

• 51:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Corinne Vien?

  They also, Zach and Aaron, said that there were rocks thrown at them. There were unexplained noises recorded throughout the investigation. And this checks out with what guests have experienced. They say, guests have said that when staying in the suite, there are shadow figures that move along the walls.

• 51:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this place is already dark, so

• 51:37Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 51:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ugh.

• 51:39Corinne Vien?

  Like darker than dark shadow figures. The sound of distant rhythmic chatting, whispers near the bed, people are hearing their names called out. They get the feeling of being watched and even the apparition of a mine worker standing near the elevator doors.

• 51:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is he confused? He like thinks that he's back in his mine because this wasn't a mine?

• 51:59Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 51:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Huh.

• 52:00Corinne Vien?

  It's interesting because like nearby, there's also, I think you mentioned it, like the guy with the top hat.

• 52:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Corinne Vien?

  Like, there's, there's a lot of stuff that's like in the vicinity, but in the actual suite of the cave system, this is what is experienced.

• 52:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, we don't know how ghosts work. Are they, are they able to like travel? Because, okay, Grand Canyon made of rock. This is a lot of crystals in the specific cavern.

• 52:24Corinne Vien?

  Yep.

• 52:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Paranormal energy, like is it all interconnected?

• 52:28Corinne Vien?

  A couple hundred feet underground though, it's so weird to have.

• 52:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. We don't know how it works.

• 52:32Corinne Vien?

  Underground ghosts?

• 52:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why not?

• 52:34Corinne Vien?

  Why not? So you guys, tell us, would you travel to the Grand Canyon? Would you float down the Colorado? Float is a polite word. Would you lazy river down the Colorado River?

• 52:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is not Volcano Bay.

• 52:47Corinne Vien?

  Canyon cavern suite?

• 52:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I, yeah, no. I don't think I would. It's cool. I think I would want to go down there and see it.

• 52:55Corinne Vien?

  And not for the paranormal, like the paranormal piece I could handle.

• 52:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, but just like from like-

• 52:59Corinne Vien?

  Isolation.

• 52:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 53:00Corinne Vien?

  Being underground.

• 53:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. There was one thing that Nick and I had done when we went to South Africa where we, it was like the coolest thing. I think I talked about on the podcast, but we did a safari and one of the nights we got dropped off by our safari guides and stayed in like a literal treehouse with a drawbridge to get to it so that like animals couldn't climb up to. Um, but it was like open, not open roof, like you had like a tarp almost, but like you could see the night sky.

• 53:27Corinne Vien?

  So scary though.

• 53:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, and you have a radio. You have no cell service. You literally have a high powered radio that you have to keep off unless there's an emergency. And that's the only contact with the actual lodge that we were staying at, but it was so cool.

• 53:41Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 53:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I would never do it underground.

• 53:43Corinne Vien?

  No, like there's no escape.

• 53:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's wild.

• 53:47Corinne Vien?

  Also, you get down there via an elevator? What happens in the elevator? Something happens in the elevator. That's not the easiest thing to fix.

• 53:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No.

• 53:54Corinne Vien?

  You're trapped in the caves?

• 53:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Gertie couldn't even get out. What do you think you're gonna do?

• 53:58Corinne Vien?

  And Gertie was 2,000 pounds.

• 54:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What if Gertie's the one throwing rocks?

• 54:01Corinne Vien?

  Oh, oh, her little spirit's just going around scratching and trying to do things.

• 54:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just throwing rocks.

• 54:07Corinne Vien?

  She's tossing, trying to get herself out. Her and Bob, the Bobcat.

• 54:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do feel bad for her and Bob.

• 54:13Corinne Vien?

  Me too.

• 54:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And, and Glenn and Bessie.

• 54:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or maybe just Bessie, or maybe just Glenn. We don't know.

• 54:18Corinne Vien?

  There's a lot. There are a million more stories to tell about the Grand Canyon, but-

• 54:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We'll revisit it another time. I also feel like we could do a whole Reddit episode.

• 54:28Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  About weird things that happen in the Grand Canyon.

• 54:31Corinne Vien?

  Doing a whole encounters too from our inbox.

• 54:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We could do a whole podcast.

• 54:34Corinne Vien?

  We could do a whole podcast.

• 54:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Pivot, just Grand Canyon season.

• 54:39Corinne Vien?

  Do you have a listener story?

• 54:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I do have a listener story and this one's a creepy one. It's about a red eyed creature in the Grand Canyon. Or a red eyed man sighting is what it's called. This is from our listener Grace She-Her. Hi, I've been a listener for a few months now and your podcast is my go to for noise for eating or crafting.

• 54:58Corinne Vien?

  Noise. I like it.

• 55:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I like it. My name is Grace She-Her. You can share my name and everything. So my grandma, my dad's mom has this story from childhood that I never listened to from her perspective until very recently. The way she spoke about it so delicately freaked me out. And I've heard this story from my dad countless of times by now, but hearing it from her and watching her relive it gave me chills. And I'm not one to usually get so freaked out by monster stories, but this one, I figured it's worth, worth mentioning. So my grandma took my dad and my uncle to the Grand Canyon when they were around 15 years old. They were walking on the trail right along the edge. The boys were just a few meters behind her when all of a sudden

• 55:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  my grandma sees this tall, dark clothed man with a wide top hat.

• 55:47Corinne Vien?

  Hmm.

• 55:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She knew he was staring at her. She could see his face and she described it as decayed and sunken in. She described his eyes as dark red and full of evil.

• 55:59Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 55:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She ordered her sons to come to her and then had them walk the rest of the trail with her holding hands. This man followed them the entire way. She got really clammy from this point of the story on. She said she had such a gut feeling that if they got too close to the edge, something bad would happen. Like he would run up to them and push them off. Every few minutes, she asked my dad and uncle if they could see the man and neither of them ever could.

• 56:25Corinne Vien?

  What?

• 56:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My dad is sure he would have noticed that there was a man in a black trench coat in the middle of the desert.

• 56:31Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, with glowing red eyes.

• 56:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm-hmm. But she swears she saw it. She says that she feared that acknowledging the figure outright would be a catalyst.

• 56:40Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 56:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They walked until they were able to find a new crowd and this crowd grew, which made my grandma feel safer. So they all sat on a bench. She sat with either of the boys on either side of her. And after a few minutes, she felt the figure walk past them behind the bench. She said she could feel him move so closely behind him that he could have touched them. Kind of how you can feel someone reading over your shoulder, even if you didn't see them or hear them walk past. Once she felt he was far enough away from them, she turned and sure enough, she could not see him anywhere. No one else in the crowd seemed to be disturbed. She still did not let go of her son's hands until they were back at the car. And even then, she said she didn't feel safe until they were back in Missouri. Now, the story is terrifying enough to hear it from her, but she added something that she had never told my dad.

• 57:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A few years later, she was working at a childcare abuse rehabilitation facility. A coworker took a nap in one of the break rooms that had a couch and the coworker later woke up with a gut feeling and then claimed to have seen a figure standing beside the couch. That figure's description? A man in full black apparel, top hat, unnatural eyes and a decayed, sunken in face standing right over her.

• 57:50Corinne Vien?

  Oh, the decayed, sunken in face just makes it so much worse.

• 57:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Grandma didn't say how that coworker immediately reacted, but she did say that the coworker never slept in the building again and never went into that specific break room again. And my grandma had never told this coworker or anyone outside of the family about her experience of the Grand Canyon.

• 58:08Corinne Vien?

  Oh, well, that's upsetting because it's like, is this thing following grandma?

• 58:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or are there just many of these types of entities everywhere?

• 58:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 58:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know. Cause there are many encounters in the Grand Canyon with like a man with a top hat. There's also a lot of flesh pedestrians, like-

• 58:24Corinne Vien?

  But the top hat man isn't supposed to be evil, is he?

• 58:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, there's one that's at a hotel.

• 58:29Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 58:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But then there are others.

• 58:31Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 58:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it kind of, I don't know. It does feel like death a bit. Okay, here's a spin.

• 58:36Corinne Vien?

  Grim Reaper, but I was like, but he's not wearing his clothes.

• 58:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Grim Reaper. But here's the spin. Okay. Grandma has two sons with her.

• 58:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 58:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  They're 15. They're maybe a little bit behind her. Are they kicking rocks? Are they joking around? Are they messing with each other and getting too close to the edge?

• 58:53Corinne Vien?

  Not being the most respectful of the land.

• 58:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or, or just being reckless and like in danger. And so this entity appeared to instill fear in grandma so much so that she would protect her children.

• 59:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hold on to them.

• 59:05Corinne Vien?

  Everyone hold hands.

• 59:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And keep them safe. Sometimes fear instills safety.

• 59:11Corinne Vien?

  That's true.

• 59:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I can't answer to the coworker seeing the same type of entity.

• 59:15Corinne Vien?

  I'll never forget the day that I was on the cliffs of Moore and someone was just like letting their, it's raining and it's wet. And you're on the edge of like hundreds of feet cliff.

• 59:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Corinne Vien?

  And there is a like six year old boy who's just running, running down that like little slippery stone dirt path. Right on the edge. No one's saying anything.

• 59:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's crazy.

• 59:36Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. I think about him a lot. I'm like, I hope he survived that day and I hope he survives other encounters.

• 59:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I hope he survived every day.

• 59:42Corinne Vien?

  Edges. And ledges.

• 59:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, that's one thing that like taking kids to places like this, I just, I hardly trust myself there because it is so, you take one wrong step, you step on a loose piece of rock.

• 59:56Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 59:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You slip, you fall and it's not like, oh, you're falling down a little hill and you get a boo boo on your booty.

• 1:00:02Corinne Vien?

  Shoot, you broke your ankle.

• 1:00:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, you're-

• 1:00:04Corinne Vien?

  You're dead.

• 1:00:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're dead.

• 1:00:06Corinne Vien?

  And everyone just watched you die.

• 1:00:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So that's the Grand Canyon. And that's life.

• 1:00:12Corinne Vien?

  What a joy filled couple of episodes we chose.

• 1:00:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Journey into the center of the earth that we just took.

• 1:00:19Corinne Vien?

  For our anniversary, we're like, yay, our podcast. These places will kill you.

• 1:00:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's kind of our whole podcast. That's our vibe.

• 1:00:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but normally it doesn't come with so many like real warnings of today.

• 1:00:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Can I tell you the best compliment I've ever received the other day?

• 1:00:32Corinne Vien?

  Oh, you know that one guy saying that you scared him?

• 1:00:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did I tell you about this?

• 1:00:36Corinne Vien?

  Well, I'm thinking about the one on tour.

• 1:00:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, it's that, it's literally the same idea. Okay. So I joined Raya or I joined like a dating app, right? And I, I want to be clear about who I am. So I have the picture of me with like Carrie blood on my face, eating a sandwich.

• 1:00:49Corinne Vien?

  Don't you have the Samara one too?

• 1:00:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I deleted that one. I was like, I think one's enough.

• 1:00:53Corinne Vien?

  Okay.

• 1:00:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but I have that.

• 1:00:55Corinne Vien?

  You showed me originally and there were, there were quite a few costumed photos.

• 1:00:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes.

• 1:00:59Corinne Vien?

  Which I thought was great.

• 1:01:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but still on brand. So I have that photo, like, like the Carrie blood dripping down my face and I'm eating a sandwich. And someone messaged me and was like, I'll read it. You're not supposed to screenshot things on Raya, but I did because it was, I was like, this is memorable.

• 1:01:14Corinne Vien?

  Rules, does it tell?

• 1:01:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, literally you get like a warning. No, like Raya gives you a warning.

• 1:01:20Corinne Vien?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:01:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hey Sabrina, you're really pretty, but kind of scary. And I said, that's the best compliment I've ever received.

• 1:01:28Corinne Vien?

  Anyone has ever said.

• 1:01:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I feel like that's kind of like our energy. I said, I want to instill a little bit of fear.

• 1:01:34Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, as you should. Did they respond?

• 1:01:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but he's in Colorado. Like I'm not gonna, I have no interest.

• 1:01:39Corinne Vien?

  That's a weird thing. I like, that's a weird thing about Raya.

• 1:01:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I agree. Anyway, um, I think that embodies like, I think our podcast energy.

• 1:01:47Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're approachable, we're fun, we're like girly pops in some ways, and then we're ghouly pops in a lot of ways.

• 1:01:54Corinne Vien?

  But also sometimes, yeah, you leave a little terrified.

• 1:01:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Corinne Vien?

  Whether we do it or you do it to yourselves.

• 1:01:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's being done to you.

• 1:02:02Corinne Vien?

  You're written for it. Give us nine more years.

• 1:02:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, please. Give us all your lives.

• 1:02:10Corinne Vien?

  We'll collect them.

• 1:02:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We are, we're little soul collectors.

• 1:02:13Corinne Vien?

  But we keep you safe.

• 1:02:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yes, we'll protect you.

• 1:02:15Corinne Vien?

  Don't run on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

• 1:02:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Or Sven will haunt you.

• 1:02:19Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sven, you have a lot of responsibility.

• 1:02:23Corinne Vien?

  If you do though, and you should perish, you, you do end up perishing there. If you do find yourself perishing in the Grand Canyon.

• 1:02:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Find yourself dying.

• 1:02:32Corinne Vien?

  The one bright side is there might be a party in the afterlife there.

• 1:02:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, but if you survive a paranormal encounter there, please email it to us.

• 1:02:38Corinne Vien?

  I gotta eat ice. I'm like, I'm gonna pass out. I'm so hot.

• 1:02:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We'll wrap up. Uh, thank you everyone for joining us. We love you very much. And again, we're so grateful for everyone joining us on this amazing journey of nine years of our podcast and I'm grateful to be doing this with you.

• 1:02:54Corinne Vien?

  Me too, thank you. Sorry.

• 1:02:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Also very unbranded for us. We're not professional.

• 1:03:01Corinne Vien?

  What are you saying about me?

• 1:03:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I said we, not just you.

• 1:03:06Corinne Vien?

  But it was about me.

• 1:03:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You're chewing ice.

• 1:03:07Corinne Vien?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:03:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, we have episodes one week early and ad free on Patreon, plus bonus episodes, plus campfire stories where you can come share your ghost stories with us live every Tuesday. We have book club, witch class, so many other fun things on Patreon.

• 1:03:22Corinne Vien?

  And thank you to Jamie Ryan, who edits and produces our podcast.

• 1:03:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Honestly, MVP of this business because we would struggle. I don't think this podcast would exist without Jamie.

• 1:03:32Corinne Vien?

  Definitely not the amount of content or the quality of the sound.

• 1:03:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, I've, I've literally said to Jamie, like, you can't leave us.

• 1:03:39Corinne Vien?

  No. That's not a possibility.

• 1:03:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't think she has any intention to, but I was like, what would we do without her?

• 1:03:45Corinne Vien?

  The podcast would end.

• 1:03:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:46Corinne Vien?

  We'll see how long Jamie wants to do this and then that will be-

• 1:03:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We are haunting her.

• 1:03:51Corinne Vien?

  It will work.

• 1:03:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So anyway, thank you everyone. We love you very much.

• 1:03:55Corinne Vien?

  And we will. See you on the other side.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

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