Never Fear Failure: Jesse Itzler on Living With A SEAL, Tackling Life Plateaus & Getting Comfortable With Being Uncomfortable

Jesse Itzler fast-talked his way right out of college into a recording contract, ultimately taking his music all the way to MTV, the Billboard 100 and even an Emmy. Jesse Itzler then took an entrepreneurial left-turn, creating and selling big companies — companies like Marquis Jet, the world’s largest prepaid private jet card company, and Zico Coconut Water — before wooing Spanx founder Sarah Blakely (worth over $1 billion) all the way to the altar. Jesse Itzler eats only fruit before noon. And when he's not raising three kids, he runs 100 mile races, raises millions for charity and can be found court side supporting the Atlanta Hawks — the NBA team he recently purchased with some friends. What I'm trying to say is that Jesse Itzler is a quite the character. An amazing life highlighted by one predominant theme: never be afraid to fail. But there is one thing that scares Jesse Itzler: stagnation. Despite all his success, in 2010 Jesse felt his life had settled into a too-comfortable routine. So he did what any rational human would do: he invited a Navy SEAL to move in with him. But this was no ordinary SEAL (as if any such thing exists). This was David Goggins — perhaps the most intense, taciturn individual walking planet Earth. A one man metaphor for adversity destruction, Goggins' example and words formed the original inspiration behind my own journey: When you think you are done, you've only accomplished about 40% of what you are truly capable of. Goggins military record is astonishing. As a Navy SEAL, he was one of an elite group of men regularly sent on some of the toughest missions in the world. He is the only member in the U. S. Armed Forces to complete SEAL training, Army Ranger School (where he graduated as Honor Man), and Air Force tactical air controller training. Not only has he faced combat in Iraq, he served as the body guard for Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari. To honor his brother soldiers felled by battle and to raise money for charity, David lost 100 pounds in 60 days and went on to tackle the 10 most rigorous ultra-endurance challenges on the planet, compelling his 260-pound frame to top finishes at races like Badwater– a 135 mile jaunt across Death Valley in 130 degree heat (finishing 5th as a novice) — and Ultraman– 1 320-mile 3 day triathlon circumnavigation of the Big Island of Hawaii he completed with his tennis shoes duct taped to the pedals of an ill-fitting loaner bike to a 2nd place finish overall. He even completed 203.5 miles in the 48-Hour National Championship endurance foot race, earning a spot among the top 20 ultra-marathoners of the world. Just another training day for Goggins, topped off with a recent Guinness World record for most pull ups in a single day: 4,025. Goggins accepted Jesse's invitation with just one rule: for 31-days, Jesse had to do every thing David asked him to do. No exceptions. What happened next would change Jesse's life forever. An adventure chronicled in his new book, Living With A Seal: 31 Days Training With The Toughest Man On The Planet*. I found the book super fun and highly entertaining. So when my travels took me to Atlanta, I jumped at the chance to meet up with him. Enjoy! Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:06Jesse Itzler?

  The only way to really get better is to experience pain, to get uncomfortable, and to go to places that you don't want to go, and improve.

• 1:14Rich Roll?

  That's entrepreneur, ultra-marathoner, and author Jesse Itzler. And this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:34Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. How you guys doing? What's going on? How was your Thanksgiving? Did you overeat? Did you get along with your family and friends? Maybe you're out on a trail, working off those extra pounds that you put on yesterday. Whatever it was, whatever it is, I hope it was great. I want to thank you guys for all the great feedback on the last episode, which was all about navigating the emotional and financial pitfalls that are incident to this heightened time of year, the holiday season. Really glad you enjoyed it, and I hope it was helpful. My name is Rich Roll. I am an athlete, an author, public speaker, wellness advocate, husband, dad, student, and of course, podcast host. And this is the show where I go deep with the paradigm shifting outliers, the big forward thinkers

• 2:19Rich Roll?

  across all categories of positive culture change: health, fitness, nutrition, academia, medicine, entrepreneurship, tech, mindfulness, consciousness, and spirituality. The goal is simple, but worthwhile, to help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. So, thank you so much for tuning in today, for subscribing to the show on iTunes, of course, for leaving us a review on iTunes. That helps us out a lot. And for always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. With the holiday season upon us, you might find yourself having to buy a gift on Amazon. It would mean a lot if you click through the banner ad on our site first. It will not cost you a cent extra. It doesn't really take any extra time, maybe a little awareness, that's

• 3:04Rich Roll?

  it. And Amazon kicks us some loose change from their voluminous coffers, and that helps keep our bandwidth flowing. It really helps us out a lot. So, thank you to everybody who has made a point and a habit of doing that. I'm really excited to bring you polymath Jesse Itzler today. He is a rapper turned very successful entrepreneur, philanthropist, ultra-runner, husband, dad, and now author. And I've got a ton I want to say about Jesse before we launch into the conversation, but first.

• 3:45Rich Roll?

  All right, Jesse Itzler on the show today. Jesse is quite the character. Let's paint the picture. This is a guy who only eats fruit until noon, has been doing that forever. He's never had a resume. He fast talked his way right out of college into a recording contract, rapping under the name Jesse James, all the way to MTV and the Billboard 100. He then produced the New York Knicks anthem, "Go New York Go," which I think they still play at all the Knicks games. And he parlayed that success into a business creating music for other sports franchises, including producing the NBA Emmy Award-winning "I Love This Game" music campaign. We've all heard that song, right? "I Love This Game." At one point, the guy even managed Run DMC.

• 4:27Rich Roll?

  And then in 2001, he took like this entrepreneurial left turn when he founded Marquis Jet, which went on to become the world's largest prepaid private jet card company, which he and his partner ultimately sold to Berkshire Hathaway and NetJets. Not enough for you? He then helped pioneer the coconut water craze as a partner in Zyko Coconut Water. Meanwhile, he married Sarah Blakely, who is the founder of Spanx. You know what Spanx is? It's a huge business. She's worth over $1 billion. And when he's not raising his three boys, in his free time, he can be found running ultra marathons or courtside at the Atlanta Hawks games. Why courtside?

• 5:09Rich Roll?

  Because he, along with a few friends, happens to own the team. And I recently came across Jesse's new book. It's called "Living with a SEAL," and I really loved it. It's a super fun, entertaining, easy read, all about what happened when he invited David Goggins into his home. For those who don't know, David Goggins is this extraordinary human being. He's a Navy SEAL. He is an ultra endurance machine. He is the pull-up world record holder. He's one of the most intense, taciturn people I have ever come across in my entire life. As well as being one of the most inspirational and influential people in my life. He was the one who originally inspired me to tackle Ultraman to begin with.

• 5:52Rich Roll?

  And in this book, he invites David into his home to come and live with him and his family in New York City for a month. And the book is kind of about the experience of having this guy live with him and putting him through the paces of what kind of a Navy SEAL experience would be like. So it's very kind of iconoclastic for a guy like David to move into essentially a really fancy New York City apartment and shake this guy's life up. And what he learned from that is really what the book is all about. So when I was in Atlanta the other week, I made a point of dropping by Jesse's house to converse with him about the book, about his life, about his success equation, and why it's important to never settle, never stagnate, never be afraid to fail, why it's

• 6:37Rich Roll?

  crucial to continually force yourself out of your comfort zone, to get comfortable being uncomfortable, so to speak, wherever you find yourself in life, and to always be seeking growth. So it goes without saying that Jesse is an incredibly dynamic, super interesting cat, full of life and stories. So, let's get to it.

• 7:23Rich Roll?

  Thanks for doing this, Jesse.

• 7:24Jesse Itzler?

  Oh, it's my pleasure.

• 7:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really nice to have you welcome me into your beautiful home and spend a little time with you. We just did a podcast before the podcast. I have this thing where I'm like, I should just do, set it up so that I don't talk to the guest until they sit down, so I get all the nuggets.

• 7:42Jesse Itzler?

  No, no.

• 7:42Rich Roll?

  So I might have to repeat one or two of those stories. But, um, yeah, I'm, uh, I've been wanting to meet you for a long time, man, so this is super cool. I feel like you're, uh, you're like this, uh, sort of Gen X version of Zelig. You've lived all these different lives, different chapters, in many different ways, in a really...

• 8:00Jesse Itzler?

  We have that in common.

• 8:01Rich Roll?

  In a cool way, you know? I mean, I, you know, I think like, I was trying to think as I was driving over here, I was like, what is like the overarching... You know, sort of theme or marching order of your life and you know, it really boils down to, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, being fearless, you know, not being afraid to fail and allowing yourself to get out of your comfort zone, which is obviously, you know, predominant theme in, in, in the new book.

• 8:25Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, no, definitely. I think that sums it up pretty good and, and doing things differently. Just not intentionally differently, but just looking at challenges and saying, you know what? That would be a great on my life resume.

• 8:36Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. The resume that you refuse to write down though.

• 8:39Jesse Itzler?

  Correct.

• 8:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah. You're like, that's the thing, right? You've never had a resume?

• 8:43Jesse Itzler?

  Right, right.

• 8:44Rich Roll?

  Just a life, a life resume in your mind.

• 8:46Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 8:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool. So, I mean, where do you think that, where does that germinate from? I mean, were your parents like that? Is, you know, where did that kind of sensibility come from?

• 8:56Jesse Itzler?

  Well, first of all, it's a lot more fun, living outside, living in, you know, outside of your comfort zone and trying different things. But I just, you know, I was, I was just, I've always been a check the box guy, you know, finish one thing and not really dwell on, oh, that was a good accomplishment or, or whatever, and just look for the next challenge. I've always just, always wanted to kind of keep going and keep trying to find new things that would excite me. I get bored easily. So, I like to just, I need, I'm one of the, I guess, you know, so many of us need a goal or something to train for. So, I'm always looking for the next thing, whether it's business or physical or whatever.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  Were you, were you like, hyperactive as a kid? Did you have trouble like, sitting down in class?

• 9:37Jesse Itzler?

  Um, I didn't recognize that at the time, but now that I look back on it, for sure.

• 9:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you would have probably been medicated if you were a kid now, right?

• 9:46Jesse Itzler?

  I know.

• 9:46Rich Roll?

  For not being able to focus and everything like that. Well, um, I mean, there's, you know, we can track back and go through the music career and, and all your kind of entrepreneurial ventures, but you know, let's camp out, um, uh... In the book right now.

• 10:01Jesse Itzler?

  Sure.

• 10:01Rich Roll?

  Tell me a little bit about about the book and kind of how this whole thing got sparked.

• 10:06Jesse Itzler?

  Sure. Well, the book's called Living with the Seal. And I was at a 24 hour race in San Diego a couple of years ago. And I was running the entire race as part of a six person relay team with friends. And the guy next to me, literally set up his little station next to me, was running the entire race alone. And he caught my eye because he was about 265 pounds, which is a lot of weight to carry in a, you know, in a 24 hour race that you're running by yourself. And the race was unsupported, so we had to bring all of our own supplies. And at the time, I just sold the company and I probably overdid my supplies. I had a tent, a masseuse, you know, bananas, like I think Whole Foods pulled up. And this guy next to me, literally sat in a folding chair with a bottle of water and

• 10:51Jesse Itzler?

  a bag of crackers, with his arms crossed, with this like, don't even think about messing with me look. And I was just like, who is this guy? And at mile 70, he had broken all the small bones in both of his feet and had kidney failure. And I watched this guy literally just on pure guts, finish this race. And I was like, who in the world is this? So I Googled him. He had a fascinating backstory, which we can get to if you want. And I decided I wanted to meet him. I cold called him. And I literally just picked up the phone, called him. He wasn't super chatty, so I said, you know what? Let me get on a plane and come see you. And after about 10 minutes of just sitting with him, I said, my life would be a lot

• 11:34Jesse Itzler?

  better if whatever he had psychologically, whatever made this guy tick, rubbed off on me a little bit. And I invited him to move in with my family and I. And three days later, he was at our breakfast table.

• 11:47Rich Roll?

  And the idea was, he's going to live with you for 31 days. And the only rule is that you've got to do everything that he says or he asks of you.

• 11:56Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah. And I wanted to get in great shape at the time. I was in a, I was in a good routine, or I thought it was a good routine. And so many of us live our life on routine. And routines are great, but they definitely could be a rut. And I wasn't getting better. My routine was great, but I wasn't improving in any of the buckets in my life.

• 12:16Rich Roll?

  And that, but, but you're such a high performer in so many other areas of your life. Like, your bar is already set pretty high in comparison to the average person. So, you know, to me, it would take some, you know, it takes a deep level of self-awareness to go, no, I can still, there's still room there.

• 12:32Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, I mean, at the time, I was, I was doing a bunch of marathons. My times weren't getting better, my training wasn't, I was just doing it. I was going through the motions, but I wasn't at all giving it my all. And I couldn't get that mojo, it's hard. You know, the, the one thing that he really taught me, and you can, I'm sure you can relate to this through everything you've done, is we're all disciplined in our own ways, but to be consistently disciplined, consistently disciplined, is so hard.

• 13:03Rich Roll?

  That's the hardest part.

• 13:05Jesse Itzler?

  Right, and, and he was the most, you know, the most of the most, or the highest level of consistency and discipline. His name is David Goggins, and since, you know, in the book, I refer to him as Seal, but his name is David Goggins, and he came in and he just turned everything upside down from day one.

• 13:21Rich Roll?

  And, and how much of it was purely like, I just want to get in physical, great physical condition versus, you know, beyond that, like, sort of the, the, the mental discipline, the emotional discipline that would spill over into other areas of your life? Like, were you thinking about that at the time, or was this purely like a fitness boot camp?

• 13:39Jesse Itzler?

  At the, when I first kind of put my hand out and shook his hand across from the table and said, let's move, you know, move in with me, it was predominantly, I wanted to get in great shape, but after two hours of him at my house, it, it, it flip-flopped, and the psychological side of it, and what makes him tick, and how is he so driven, became eighty to ninety percent of it. So, I knew I was gonna get in good shape, that was unavoidable, I mean, he's a, he's a machine, but I really wanted so much more, because, you know, you go in and out of shape, you, you go through these peaks and valleys, up and down, but the mental side of it, you can really, can last a lifetime. So, I, I, and I got all these different little soundbites and tidbits of living with him.

• 14:21Jesse Itzler?

  I mean, the first day that he came here, and two hours into our journey, we went down, he wanted to see how many pull-ups I could do. And by the way, he has set the Guinness Book of World's Records for most pull-ups in a day. He's done 4,030 in 17 hours. So, pull-ups for him weren't that difficult. Pull-ups for me, a 200-pound guy that doesn't do any was very tough. So, I squeezed, I did like eight. So, I get off the bar, try it again in 30 seconds. Got back on the bar, I did like maybe six. So, I, "One more time, wait 30 seconds and try it again." And I barely got four. And he turned and I was done, like lactic acid built up. My arms were like at a 90-degree angle. And he turned to me and he said, "All right, we're not leaving here until you do 100 more."

• 15:06Jesse Itzler?

  And I said, "I can't possibly do 100." Like, impossible for me to physically, I might want to do it, I can't do it. And I said, "No, you can do it. And we're gonna, I'm gonna prove it to you. We're not leaving this gym until you do it." So, I would do one, walk around the gym, do another. But what he taught me, and I did it, but what he taught me is, we all have so much more in our reserve tank than we think we have. And his saying, one of your saying that you've, you know, has resonated with you, is that when your brain tells you you're done, you're really only 40% done. And he, and he taught me that right, you know, there.

• 15:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah. He, I had heard him say that one time and I never forgot it. And as we were kind of chatting before the podcast, that's really, you know, that's something that I use in the talks that I give. And, and also, you know, it was a big sort of mantra when I was doing Epic Five, when I would hit those low moments. And it's so true. It's so incredibly true and it's incredibly powerful. And when I'm reading your book, you refer to him as Seal, he's anonymous. But to me, I'm like, I know immediately, this, the only person this could be is David Goggins.

• 16:11Jesse Itzler?

  Right, right.

• 16:12Rich Roll?

  Like, anybody in the endurance community would identify him immediately because there is no other human being like this guy on planet Earth.

• 16:18Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 16:18Rich Roll?

  But I'm interested in, you know, why it was anon. I know that now it's public, I think maybe a week ago or whatever, he was cool with like coming out and doing press about it. But was he, you know, reticent to participate in this on a media level? Or like, what was the, you know, reason why he was anonymous throughout until recently?

• 16:38Jesse Itzler?

  Well, when he moved in with me, I decided to keep a blog of our training regiment. And I sent it out to just 30, 40 friends. And during that time, I just referred to him as Seal, just because I thought it was funny. It resonated with guys and the blog really caught on and it led ultimately to this book. And I just wanted to keep it consistent with the blog. There wasn't like, you know, anything deeper than that. But I also wanted people that didn't know, like you, David Goggins and the name, or could Google him or whatever, to get their own mental vision of, of what this guy looks like and is.

• 17:13Rich Roll?

  Right. Yeah, it's so interesting. And, and for people that are listening that don't know who he is, he's a Navy SEAL. He's been a Navy SEAL for like, I don't know, over 20 years, probably at this point, who has suffered the loss of, of many a fellow soldier. And around, I think, I want to say it was around 2007 or so, to honor, you know, his fallen brethren, I think he had six friends of his who died in helicopter accidents or something like that, decided that he was going to tackle like the 10 most challenging endurance challenges on the planet.

• 17:47Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 17:47Rich Roll?

  And he just set about like checking the boxes. You know, he'd never been a runner. The guy's enormous, right?

• 17:52Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 17:53Rich Roll?

  Like, he is not like the typical triathlete runner. He never owned a bike. You know, like, on sheer force of will, he one by one like knocked these things off. And he, you know, by, I don't know how he got into his first 100 miler. I think he had to do something on a track to prove that he could do it. And he, that was another instance, I think, where he broke all kinds of bones.

• 18:12Jesse Itzler?

  Well, that's the race that I saw. I saw him at his first, at his first one.

• 18:16Rich Roll?

  Unbelievable. And, and on a personal level, you know, when I was going through like my transformation and my journey, I was trying to think of a challenge that would get me excited and scared and all of those things. And was contemplating an Ironman when I picked up a magazine article, and I talk about this in Finding Ultra. And it was a story about this race Ultraman. But really, it was a story about this guy, David Goggins, who had come off bad water, had never really, he, I don't think he'd ever even done a triathlon at all, and had gotten into this Ultraman race, didn't own a bike, borrowed a bike, didn't have cycling shoes or cleats or anything like that. He actually taped his tennis shoes to his pedals. And through this incredible, you know, mental acumen that he has and, and

• 19:00Rich Roll?

  force of will, still placed relatively high in this race.

• 19:03Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 19:03Rich Roll?

  And I was so amazed by that, that that was like the seed that, you know, was planted for me to contemplate the idea that perhaps I could try this race. And so he's sort of, you know, a spirit animal to me, even though, I mean, I, I've met him a couple of times. I wouldn't say that, you know, I know him well. But truly a remarkable human being in, in every category. And unlike any other person you're ever gonna meet.

• 19:24Jesse Itzler?

  And an unlikely roommate for my wife and I.

• 19:26Rich Roll?

  Yes, perhaps the most taciturn and and serious, gravely serious person, you know, I've ever encountered.

• 19:35Jesse Itzler?

  When he walked into my house, and this is in the book, I said, you know, look, go ahead, take your bags, make yourself at home. And he said, nah, he said, I don't have a home.

• 19:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Jesse Itzler?

  This is your home. And I said, no, no, make yourself at home is an expression. And he turned right to me, he goes, I don't operate in expressions. I was like.

• 19:52Rich Roll?

  You're like.

• 19:52Jesse Itzler?

  I'm like, okay.

• 19:53Rich Roll?

  It's gonna be a long 31 days, because you're like a jocular fun guy, you know.

• 19:57Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 19:58Rich Roll?

  You must be thinking like, there's gotta be a way into this guy. Like, how am I gonna crack his, you know, emotional core?

• 20:03Jesse Itzler?

  Totally.

• 20:04Rich Roll?

  And get to the, get to the reality of like, who this person is.

• 20:07Jesse Itzler?

  Right. I also thought, look, we'll, we'll run, we'll watch some football games, we'll go to some dinners, you know, like, I was the thing. The, you know, that, that got thrown out the window. He, he literally took, we lived at the time in New York City, in a great building, on Central Park West. He took all the furniture in the guest room where he was sleeping, moved it to the side, and blew up an inflatable tent that takes the oxygen out of the room to increase your like, red bloods or whatever, and slept in a tent in our apartment.

• 20:36Rich Roll?

  Like an altitude tent.

• 20:37Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. No, there's amazing anecdotes in the book. There's one story where I think you come in and he's just sitting in front of the window, like, looking out the window.

• 20:47Jesse Itzler?

  This window.

• 20:47Rich Roll?

  Like, his, his ability to just patiently and quietly sit without, you know, encountering.

• 20:54Jesse Itzler?

  Or stalk.

• 20:55Rich Roll?

  Any distractions.

• 20:56Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Rich Roll?

  Or stalk, yeah. Is, is quite amazing. So how did it go when you cracked this news to your wife? Like, hey, here, I got this idea. This is what's gonna go down.

• 21:05Jesse Itzler?

  So, well, my wife is an entrepreneur. She owns a company called Spanx. And she's always lived her, her, her life way out of the box. She's put herself out there. She's a huge risk taker. That's a theme in her life. And I always say she's 50% Einstein and 50% Lucille Ball. And I think when I told her that we're having a guest move in, I got her to a Lucille, Lucille Ball moment. Because she didn't really register with us, so I immediately said, you know, went to, onto the next thing. I kinda got like, a half approval. And went on to the next topic.

• 21:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's not really registering what that's actually gonna mean.

• 21:37Jesse Itzler?

  And I said it really fast, like, we're having a guest, maybe still, you know, like, subliminally kinda snuck it in, so I, I could tell her that I gave her the information, but I didn't give her all the information.

• 21:46Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. And, and so tell me the first thing that happens when he comes in.

• 21:52Jesse Itzler?

  So, well, first of all, he only had a nap, you know, he came for 31 days with nothing. All his belongings were in a small backpack, which was amazing because it was the winter. And, um, you know, I showed him to him, like I told you, we went down and did these pull-ups, uh, did that pull-up challenge and, um...

• 22:11Rich Roll?

  That was right out, like, right when he arrived.

• 22:13Jesse Itzler?

  Right out of the gate. And then that night, he told me that I'd be sleeping in a chair to get out of my comfort zone, and he wanted me to feel what suffering, to start to feel what suffering is so, you know, I could enjoy it, as he would say. And, um, but no, every day, you know, he had an expression, "Every day we have to do something that sucks," and we did. And, um, you know, he just wanted me, he wanted me to take my baseline, which I thought I was operating at a high level, and just really reset it and raise the bar. Because once it gets reset, your baseline just gets raised, you can't really go back. And, and all the challenges, all the workouts, you know, we did some crazy

• 22:53Jesse Itzler?

  stuff. Jumped in a frozen lake, we did insane runs and blizzards and all this other stuff. But it was all about raising the baseline to get better and getting out of your comfort zone. You know, that term is overused, but you really, the only way to really get better is to experience pain, to get uncomfortable, and to go to places that you don't want to go and improve.

• 23:17Rich Roll?

  Right. And it's interesting for a guy like you, because, I mean, literally, you have choices most people don't have. Like, you could choose to spend your time however you like, without really a concern for resources. And most people in your scenario would opt for, you know, sort of lavish vacations and, you know, whatever, like the path of least resistance and sort of only doing things that sort of pique your interest. And here you are kind of welcoming this person into your life that is going to completely shake that up and force you to, you know, confront yourself in a way that you don't really, you could go to your grave without ever having to do and be none the wiser or, you know, suffer nonetheless.

• 23:59Jesse Itzler?

  And I think that's why he decided to move in with us.

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  And that was my next question, like, why would he agree to do this?

• 24:05Jesse Itzler?

  I think that he recognized that I, you know, that there was authentic passion for wanting to get better. There was a strong appreciation for him. I had so much respect for what he was doing and what he's done for our country. And I think part of him too, I think, you know, to live with two entrepreneurs, I think there was a little bit of like, let me see what another world looks like.

• 24:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's about as uncomfortable for him as it is for you to jump into a frozen lake.

• 24:31Jesse Itzler?

  Absolutely.

• 24:32Rich Roll?

  Because I can't, it's hard to even picture that guy in New York City at all, let alone like sort of in your fancy apartment building.

• 24:38Jesse Itzler?

  I know.

• 24:41Jesse Itzler?

  No.

• 24:41Rich Roll?

  I mean, it's comical.

• 24:43Jesse Itzler?

  It was, the book's fun, I mean, that's the, that's the whole fish out of water part of the book. It's really funny. But yeah, I mean, women with poodles in their, you know, pocketbooks or in the elevator with him, he's, you know, he's probably jumped out of parachutes in foreign countries and done things that we, you know, some other stuff that I don't even know about that were, that were, helped our country and this and that. And here he is in this fancy building, and he was just, you know, he was just so determined at, at everything. I mean, everything was perfect form, perfect execution, you know, on time. And a lot of that rubbed off on me, you know, not just physically, but even at work.

• 25:25Jesse Itzler?

  You know, I've lost many deals to just negotiation fatigue. You know, I don't have great negotiation endurance. I'd rather run. A lot of times I just feel like, you know what, it is what it is. I'm not gonna, let's just, I want to go run. Fine, done, shake on it. And he just, every, everything that he did in his life, even the way he cleaned his room, in the beginning, you know, or made his bed, was perfect. It had to be done. In fact, this is really interesting. I asked him now, like, what else is left on your bucket list? Like, you've done all these amazing things. And he said to me, literally, this is two days ago, he said, there's nothing left. He's done everything he wants to do. What he's doing now is he's going back through the things that he's already done, like Badwater, that he thinks he could do better and trying to improve.

• 26:11Jesse Itzler?

  The things on his bucket list that he's already done.

• 26:13Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Yeah, there's a, one of his kind of pearls of wisdom throughout, that's peppered throughout the book, is this idea that it's, it's less about what you're doing, it's when you're doing it and how you're doing it.

• 26:26Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Rich Roll?

  That like commitment to doing whatever you're doing, however mundane it is, to do it the best that you can do, with this relentless like focus, like the ability of him to like be super present in whatever he's doing without any distraction.

• 26:41Jesse Itzler?

  Right. Now, part of that is he has, you know, the luxury of having a super simple life, right? He doesn't have a lot of distractions and.

• 26:48Rich Roll?

  He's not on Facebook or Twitter.

• 26:50Jesse Itzler?

  No, no. Why would he do that?

• 26:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Jesse Itzler?

  Then he could be doing pushups.

• 26:55Rich Roll?

  Exactly.

• 26:56Jesse Itzler?

  Um, so, but that's part of it. But, you know, he, I, I always felt like during our days that we had, we were operating with 27 or 28 hours in a day. We were so, I was so more efficient at work, even though I was doing so much more physically and we were training so long, I was getting so much more done at work because all the non-essential things that, you know, he would just be like eliminate them. Meetings, I didn't, you know, and then maybe I would take that I didn't need lunches, this and that. And he would find, you know, a lot of us think if we don't work out in the morning, ah, I missed my workout, I'll do it tomorrow. If we had a 15 minute break during, he shadowed me everywhere I went. He came to every meeting, every meal, everything. And if they'd be like, let's take 15 minute break to check emails and go to the bathroom.

• 27:41Jesse Itzler?

  He'd be like, let's go do as many burpees as we can in 10 minutes.

• 27:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:45Jesse Itzler?

  And then take five minutes to do, to do your stupid emails.

• 27:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And there was that time where he made you do that during a break and like a negotiation or a business meeting. And you're in a suit and you have to come back.

• 27:54Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 27:56Rich Roll?

  Just finding that, that, that little sliver of extra time throughout your day.

• 28:00Jesse Itzler?

  And, and he didn't care.

• 28:01Rich Roll?

  You're always working out. Like, it's not like you worked out and you're done. Like, it's a constant, uh, you know, search for that little moment of time that you could maximize and use more efficiently.

• 28:11Jesse Itzler?

  And he did. You know, we would, if we were traveling and we would get home at 11 o'clock and he'd felt like the day wasn't complete. Like, we didn't get enough done. He would say, all right, we still have 50 minutes left. We're gonna maximize those 50 minutes in the day.

• 28:25Rich Roll?

  Were you game throughout? Was there ever a moment where you're like, all right, man, come on, like, or a breaking point where you're like, it's too much, or you thought you weren't gonna make it?

• 28:35Jesse Itzler?

  Several times, several times, and I just didn't want to let him down. You know, he was, it was just so motivating. It's one thing to read about inspiration. It's another thing to live with inspiration. And when you, when I was just being around him and knowing what he's done, like you said, taping his feet to a bike and, you know, all this crazy stuff. I, I can't go out for a 50 minute run. I mean, it was just impossible to say no to him. Um, and then after two or three weeks, when it became habit, it, I would look forward to it.

• 29:06Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:07Jesse Itzler?

  I'd be like, I can't wait for it to suck today.

• 29:09Rich Roll?

  Interesting.

• 29:10Jesse Itzler?

  And, and, um, so it was real, it was really interesting. And, you know, I would bring him to these business meetings. And I, I remember specifically, we went to meet with Kevin Garnett from, uh, who at the time was playing with the Celtics, who was a Gatorade endorsed, you know, his endorser for Gatorade. And, but he was also really into what he puts in his body.

• 29:30Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:31Jesse Itzler?

  And his contract was coming up and we thought for my coconut water company, Zico, he'd be a great fit as an endorser. So I brought Goggins with me.

• 29:39Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 29:39Jesse Itzler?

  And we go to pitch in Boston, Garnett. And I introduced them and I said, oh, this is David Goggins. He's a Navy SEAL. He's living with me to train me. And for the next two hours, those guys just went back and forth about fitness, you know, what they put, what they put in their body, food, this and that. And in the end, they gave them, they gave each other a bear hug and they said, all right, great meeting. And I'm like, what about Zico? And Garnett turned to me and he said, look, whatever you guys are doing, I'm in.

• 30:05Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 30:06Jesse Itzler?

  So he was like the ultimate.

• 30:07Rich Roll?

  Ultimate closer.

• 30:07Jesse Itzler?

  Without question. I mean, guys were so fascinated with him. I was like, I wish I could bring him everywhere.

• 30:12Rich Roll?

  Incredible accessory that you could bring into the boardroom. Uh, no, there's, you paint that scene really beautifully because it starts off with you're, you being nervous about, you know, how this is going to go in this negotiation. You bring David in and immediately like Kevin is in this sort of staring contest, like trying to figure out who this David guy is not hearing anything that you're saying.

• 30:31Jesse Itzler?

  Nothing.

• 30:31Rich Roll?

  Like, that's really great.

• 30:33Jesse Itzler?

  It's hysterical. I'm going through a whole pitch and then he just turns to Goggins like, so what do you do during a day? You know, that was it. The floodgates open and those guys had their, their conversation and.

• 30:45Rich Roll?

  I don't think there was anybody who could beat David in a staring contest.

• 30:47Jesse Itzler?

  No.

• 30:48Rich Roll?

  No way.

• 30:49Jesse Itzler?

  No.

• 30:49Rich Roll?

  Right. And also, I love the part about like, sort of just walking, like, walking across midtown, and you're wearing like 50-pound weight vests, and he's got his eyes, it's like he's in Fallujah, you know, just like spotting, we gotta cross the street, you know, like, looking for, you know, enemy sightlines the whole time.

• 31:08Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, he had these, he got two weight vests that we would wear when I'd walk to work. I would wear a suit, some days, not often.

• 31:14Rich Roll?

  And you're wearing the, you're wearing the weight vest underneath your suit.

• 31:17Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, underneath it and some days over it, but usually under, but, but sometimes we'd be exposed, and we'd look like we're gonna go blow up a building.

• 31:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:23Jesse Itzler?

  I mean, he looks-

• 31:24Rich Roll?

  Did anybody ever stop you?

• 31:26Jesse Itzler?

  People, they couldn't stop us because they'd run to the other side of the street.

• 31:29Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 31:29Jesse Itzler?

  I mean, they were freaked out. I was freaked out. I thought, you know, like, it was unsafe.

• 31:33Rich Roll?

  And this is 2010, right?

• 31:35Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 31:36Rich Roll?

  When this was happening?

• 31:37Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 31:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 31:38Jesse Itzler?

  So, it was, um, he loved the weight vest. He'd wear the weight vest like it was, you know, he would put it on like he just, he was putting on the jacket after he won the Masters.

• 31:48Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 31:48Jesse Itzler?

  I mean, celebrate it. He would welcome it. He would sleep in it. He loved, he just loved challenge.

• 31:55Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:55Jesse Itzler?

  It couldn't be hard enough.

• 31:56Rich Roll?

  And he, as I recall, I think he had a heart thing that was going on with him that took him out, like, because he didn't compete for a number of years.

• 32:05Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 32:05Rich Roll?

  And then he was kind of gone. Like, I didn't see him anywhere. I didn't see his name anywhere. I think that might have been around 2009 or something like that. Did that, did he have surgery, or they got rectified, or how did that get?

• 32:14Jesse Itzler?

  So, he's, he's, he accomplished all these amazing physical feats with literally, I believe, like 60%, only 60% of, um, capacity of his heart. He had a, he had a huge hole in his heart. And he has sickle cell. So, he's-

• 32:28Rich Roll?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 32:29Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, he has sickle cell. So, he, um, it's just an amazing story. I mean, anyone listening should Google David Goggins and get more about his story, or, you know, a lot of it is in my book, Living with the Seal, but, um, it's just, you know, guys like this are rare. And when you can pull things out of their, their journey to help your personal life, whether it's training or work, and I was fortunate, I got both out of it. It just makes you so much better.

• 32:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a, you know, it's a lost sensibility in our culture. You know, now it's all about the life hack or what's the shortest route to get, you know, to get to the end game. And here's a guy who's so fully committed to the process, the journey. He's actually seeking out the most difficult route as opposed to finding the shortcut.

• 33:17Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 33:17Rich Roll?

  And in that finding, you know, finding the thing to celebrate is overcome. You know, it's like if it's easy to do, then what is that? What are you gaining out of that? It's only through confronting and overcoming and, and, you know, getting to the other side of that thing that you thought you could never do, that enriches your life.

• 33:33Jesse Itzler?

  And also I would just add one thing, you know, so many of us have finish lines. I'm going to run the New York marathon. And when you train for that one specific thing, you celebrate it with a party with your friends. You hang the medal up and the pictures up and you said, okay, I saw my resume. I did the New York marathon. He has no finish lines.

• 33:50Rich Roll?

  No.

• 33:50Jesse Itzler?

  It's like, once that's done, what's the next race? You know, what's the next thing to do?

• 33:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he doesn't dwell for one second. I think when he did, he did Ironman World Championships one year. He parachuted into the swim, did the whole Ironman. And when it was done, he went out for a run. He's like, it's just another workout.

• 34:07Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 34:08Rich Roll?

  Like he doesn't make too big of a deal out of anything.

• 34:10Jesse Itzler?

  Right, right. And so it's, it's a valuable lesson as well.

• 34:15Rich Roll?

  So, so what are like the biggest, you know, lessons that you take away from this? Like, you know, how has this impacted your life post David? I mean, it's been five years now. You know, what are the biggest changes that have stuck with you that are still part of your daily life?

• 34:32Jesse Itzler?

  Well, for starters, you know, definitely the same, you, just to reiterate, what you dwell, you tapped into on one of your races, the 40% rule, something that definitely resonates with me, I always think about. But just on a daily basis, it's, he's just been, he's just motivated to live a lot more, with a lot more grit. Grit is a great indicator of future success and he was the grittiest. But just to live my life with as much grit, look for challenges that maybe stuff that I don't think I can complete and try to do it. Always have something on my calendar that, you know, that I'm looking forward to, that I can train for, and then what's next after that? I'm building out a schedule. I'm way more efficient with my time. I've eliminated a lot of the non-essential stuff in my life.

• 35:16Jesse Itzler?

  I'm trying to live more simply. My life's a little complicated. His life was so simple. And I think he didn't really want what I had, and I wanted a lot of what he had without getting rid of what I had. Like, I didn't want to downgrade my my house or my apartment, but I wanted the simplicity. So I'm trying to to live a real, you know, simple, as as simple as I can.

• 35:38Rich Roll?

  What would be an example of something that maybe you you cut loose?

• 35:43Jesse Itzler?

  Well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a fancy guy. I'm not into fancy dinners. We've talked about, you know, I only eat fruit until noon, but even just wardrobe. You know, I mean, I'll, I want to, in my closet, as soon as he left, one of the first things I did was go through and say, you know what? I only want to have 20 things in my closet for this season. Instead of having a couple of jackets and a couple of this, I'm like, I'm gonna take the two that I like, the two sweaters, the T-shirts, the running shorts, and that's it. And I loved it. It felt so clean and it just, it it felt, even that one little, small little change, opened up stuff at work. I felt, it just opened up a theme that stuck with me about just simplifying things and that, you know.

• 36:27Jesse Itzler?

  I didn't feel like I had to return every email. I didn't feel like emails owned me. I took control of my own emails. So I didn't feel like I had to respond in five minutes to every email and be beholden to that or, or, you know, oh, this guy's gonna get mad if I don't respond to the emails.

• 36:42Rich Roll?

  That's a big one.

• 36:43Jesse Itzler?

  What gives someone the right, that someone emails me? What gives, now, they don't, what gives them the right to think that I have to email them back immediately? Why do I have to stop what I'm doing with my kids or my family and return that email? Shouldn't that answer be on my terms? And, you know.

• 37:03Jesse Itzler?

  Pre Goggins, I would be like, oh, man, so I gotta get back to him right away. Da, da, da, da, da. Post Goggins, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go get, I'm gonna put me first. Putting me first was a big, a big takeaway from him.

• 37:15Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, so you've kind of created this pie chart about how you allocate your time every day, right?

• 37:22Jesse Itzler?

  Yes.

• 37:22Rich Roll?

  Tell me what that looks like.

• 37:24Jesse Itzler?

  Well, I, you know, I, I, um, I draw a circle and I start with, okay, I need seven hours of sleep. That's kind of where, where my, I'm comfortable operating on seven. Six isn't good for me. Eight's probably a little too much. And so, okay, I have 17 hours left in a day. How do I want to spend it? And I literally put three hours for me. And that three hours of time could be a run. It could be sitting in a sauna. It could be doing emails. It could be watching TV. But the Jesse time is something that I definitely prioritize. And then I have time, a certain amount allocated time with my wife and my family. And, and the rest is pretty much work. And that's how I break up my day and I approach it. It's pretty much the same breakdown every day, but I do change it depending on what's going on.

• 38:09Jesse Itzler?

  But I always make sure that I have three hours for me and a certain amount of time for my wife and my kids.

• 38:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And so, does the training fall into that three hours? If you're gearing up for a race?

• 38:21Jesse Itzler?

  Mm-hmm. If I'm gearing up, I might extend it a little bit. You know, I usually, training I usually actually keep as a separate. The three hours usually doesn't even include the training. Because again, if you're efficient with your time, 24 hours, try to fill up on a pie chart. 24 hours, if you, if seven of it's sleep, you still have 17 hours. If you're efficient at work and you work, you know, X amount of hours, you still have a lot of time.

• 38:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 38:44Jesse Itzler?

  And you know what? Get up an hour earlier.

• 38:45Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. Yeah, that's, you know, that's something that I'm, I'm always trying to find balance with that, you know? And I, it's like, I feel like I vacillate between extremes. Like in the meta, there's balance. Like if you look back over the course of a year, my life looks really balanced. But on a day-to-day basis, trying to get that mix right, like to achieve that pie chart every single day is something that is always eluding me.

• 39:09Jesse Itzler?

  But even if you're working a full-time job and you work eight hours a day and you sleep six, you have 10, you have 10 hours. You have 10 hours to allocate. So even if I, I'm trying to just figure out now how I even do it. Even if you ran for three hours a day and spent three hours by yourself and three hours with your family, you still have an hour. I mean, there's a lot of time if you don't dilly-dally.

• 39:34Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:35Jesse Itzler?

  And, you know, he didn't dilly-dally. There was no dilly-dallying. The dilly-dallying would be like, you know what? I got downtime. I'm gonna do some sit-ups. Everything was maximized. Now, of course, it's unrealistic for us to all live our life to that extent. But there's pieces of it we can pull out to get better.

• 39:59Rich Roll?

  Do you feel like you were able to, you know, crack his exterior and figure out what it is that drives him? Like, what's behind that that has created this, you know, this person?

• 40:11Jesse Itzler?

  Well, I talk about it with him. I talked to him about it because it's just, it's so unique. And, you know, his motivator, and we all have our own motivation. His motivator was anger. He had a really tough childhood. He, you know, he has a lot of anger inside. But he's been able to channel that on a daily basis whenever he needs it. And, and, and that's really what, you know, what drives him.

• 40:37Jesse Itzler?

  He likes to look at his life as like a wet rag that you, you know, you kind of squeeze out all the water. He wants to squeeze, and he looks at the rag like it's his soul. And he wants to squeeze out every single drip, drop of water out of his soul to know that he's maximized his time on earth.

• 40:55Rich Roll?

  But I think in some respects, it can be said that, that, you know, when your fuel is anger, that's an unsustainable fuel source, right? You're gonna, you're gonna burn out. Like, at some point, is there a way to confront that fear, work through it, get to the other side and, and be able to operate, you know, from a different place? And, you know, did you sense like there's a, that he holds on to that? Like, if he was actually to confront that and work through it, that suddenly he wouldn't be the person that he is anymore? Or he wouldn't have that drive?

• 41:26Jesse Itzler?

  I think, well, I think he definitely still taps into the anger. He might be the exception to the rule. He might be that one asterisk. Like on the bottom of the page, like, you know, this doesn't apply to everyone asterisk. It does apply to David Goggins. I think he's also set up, just he's, he has such control of his mind. He's convinced himself that he can just do it, or he's going to try to do it no matter what. And again, it goes back to being the consistency and the discipline. He's consistently convinced himself that he's up for the task, that he can do it, that he was put on earth

• 42:04Jesse Itzler?

  to see what he's made of. And, you know, you know, so for him, maybe the anger is something that, you know, that he can still hold on to. And maybe it is something that won't go away. I don't know. And maybe that's channeled with other emotions or other things, or just the will to be the best, or whatever it is. But whatever that potion is inside him, it's working.

• 42:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, the other thing, interesting thing about the book is that it's, it really is peppered with a lot of business advice. You know, it's not just, oh, here's how I got in shape, and here's the workouts that I did, and here's the pearls of wisdom that David was dropping on me. And, you know, sort of aside from, you know, him kind of being your, your accessory in these, in these business meetings, there was some wisdom that you were able to kind of cull from hanging out with him that has applied to your entrepreneurial life.

• 42:53Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah. You know, I've, I've, I've had multiple gigs. I had a private jet company called Marquis Jet, and I had no experience or background in private aviation. I was in the music business. I had, I was a partner in Zico Coconut Water. So multiple, and there's always been a big learning curve. I've never, I didn't study to be in any of those fields. I don't think you can. And like we said, I'd never had a resume. So I've always been like, you know, At a combination of let me get my foot in the door and kind of figure the rest out later. Let me get the deal and I'm gonna, I'll figure out how to make the deal work. So the first step has always been for me, getting the deal, getting the right partners, hiring my weaknesses, surrounding myself, you know, in filling the positions that I didn't want to play.

• 43:37Jesse Itzler?

  But it's always been mixed with a real passion for stuff that I wanted to learn more about or, or, you know, get better at or whatever. So, um, but there's no secret sauce, you know? It's the ability to not be scared to fail, to call audibles.

• 44:00Jesse Itzler?

  And just, uh, you know, when you do fail, just know that you're just getting a little nudge that you're off course and, and get back on course somehow.

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I mean, tracking back to the beginning of your, your career, you had this sort of audacity to, you know, I guess, is it fair to say bluff your way into?

• 44:16Jesse Itzler?

  That's fair.

• 44:17Rich Roll?

  Music industry as Jesse James, the rapper, and then, you know, take that opportunity once you're in the door to then translate it into, you had a song that was on the Billboard 100, right?

• 44:28Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Rich Roll?

  And then, and then realizing there was this niche in the sports arena field of writing these songs for these franchises and turning that into like a full-blown business.

• 44:39Jesse Itzler?

  Yes.

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Um, so, you know, do you think that, that, uh, I'm trying to figure out how to articulate this, that, uh, that your kind of audacity is just innate? Or do you think that that can be taught? I mean, that fearlessness, you know, to be able to kind of walk into a room without a resume and sort of secure the desired result.

• 45:05Jesse Itzler?

  Mm-hmm. Well, I had, I always had the confidence that if I could get into the room and get, you know, connect the dots and put myself in the game, that I could figure out how to get to the fourth quarter. And when I got my record deal, you know, I, I, I faced rejection probably 20 times. I sent out, like, everybody trying to get a record deal in the 80s, a cassette with a three-song demo to all the various record labels in New York and LA, and didn't hear one single word back. And then I would call these labels and nothing, and I didn't have a lawyer. My dad owned a plumbing supply house. I didn't have a powerful lawyer. I'm like, how in the world am I gonna get a record deal? Like, this is crazy. And one night, I was at the studio in New York,

• 45:49Jesse Itzler?

  and one of my favorite rappers of the 80s, a guy named Dana Dane, had an advanced cassette of his second album that no one had, sitting on the board, the music board. So I borrowed it, put it in my pocket. Hey, I just wanted to hear it. I was a fan of his. But when I went out to LA after college, I had read that the owners of a record label called Delicious Vinyl, which is a big independent, probably the hottest independent label in the early 90s, they had a song called "Bust a Move," Young MC, and "Wild Thing" from Tone Low. The founders loved Dana Dane. So when I called up, I basically, through a lot of confusion, convinced them, or led them to believe that I was Dana Dane,

• 46:32Jesse Itzler?

  and I set up a meeting with the owner, who was a huge fan of Dana's. And, you know, they were referring to me as Dana on the phone, and I was responding like, yes, you know. Dana, you can come at two, come in at two to see Mike. I was like, great, I'll be there. And then when I rang the buzzer, I said, I'm Dana, here to see Mike. Dana's an African-American guy from Brooklyn. I'm a white guy from Long Island. So obviously, they didn't know what was what. But anyway, I get all the way into this guy's office.

• 46:59Rich Roll?

  So the goal was to just get in the office no matter what?

• 47:02Jesse Itzler?

  Get in the office and handcuff myself until I get a deal, or something, something.

• 47:07Rich Roll?

  So first, you gotta get over this hurdle of this guy being upset that you're not who you said you were.

• 47:12Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 47:12Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 47:13Jesse Itzler?

  Right.

• 47:13Rich Roll?

  So how does that go?

• 47:14Jesse Itzler?

  Well, so I, he, he comes in. By the way, he's now a great friend of mine. He signed my wedding license. This guy's become a great friend. And Dana is also a great friend. But, um, no, so I'm sitting in the office, and the secretary comes in and says, Dana, can I get you some water? I said, thank you, that'd be great. They bring water in, and I'm waiting for Mike Ross, the owner of this label, to come in. And he comes in, and he says, who the hell are you? Where's Dana? I said, oh, you know, Dana's running a little bit late. I said, but I have a, I have his cassette, you know, why don't we put it in? I said, in fact, I have my cassette too. He's like, what are you talking about? I said, oh, so I've been making music with Dana for years. It just started really confusing him even more. Uh, until finally he let me put my, my cassette in and I had a song called College Girls. And he listened to about 30 seconds of it. I'd already-

• 47:58Rich Roll?

  Which is a long ti- that's a long time.

• 48:00Jesse Itzler?

  A long time and I, I'd already built a little bit of credibility because I had this cassette. I knew a lot of the right names and, you know, I'd been around the scene a little bit. And, um, he stopped my song and he said, you know, this is great. Would, would you be willing to give this song to Tone Loc, one of his artists? And, um, and that led, I didn't, but it led to dialogue and, you know, going down the path and ultimately my record deal.

• 48:26Rich Roll?

  Right, that's amazing. And is it that same, you know, sort of spirit that you, that you took to Marquis Jet?

• 48:33Jesse Itzler?

  Everything.

• 48:34Rich Roll?

  You know, how did that, how did that happen?

• 48:36Jesse Itzler?

  Everything in my life has been like that. I, um, Marquis Jet, similar thing, you know, um, I was a guest on a private jet. Loved the experience. My partner and I were, were literally sitting in the back of our, a friend of ours who invited us on a trip on one of his planes and we were like, this is unbelievable. How do we fly like this more often? And, um, came up with this idea for a 25 hour flight card, which ultimately became Marquis Jet and had this great, you know, we, we really thought that there'd be a huge market for people that would want to buy this 25 hour prepaid card. Problem was we had no airplanes. So we had to go to NetJets, who was the 800 pound gorilla.

• 49:16Jesse Itzler?

  And, um, I got in a call about a year prior to that from a friend of mine who had, who wanted to put one of his friend's daughters, uh, wanted to get tickets to a Christina Aguilera concert and knew that I knew the manager from my days in the music business. So, um, not only, and I didn't know who the guy was, but not only did we get this gal, the 16 year old, uh, for her birthday tickets, we, she had, she had the opportunity to be a background singer on the stage. The guy was going to do me a favor, the manager. And it turns out that the fellow who was, whose daughter it was, was this guy Jim Jacobs, who was the president of NetJets.

• 49:52Rich Roll?

  Ah.

• 49:52Jesse Itzler?

  So when we had this idea a year later, I called him. Now, he doesn't know me. I was like the, the behind the scenes guy that facilitated this thing. I get him on the phone. I, again, just, he had no idea what I was talking about. I'm like, Christina Aguilera? He's like, you're Aguilera? I'm like, no. You know, da, da, da. I'm like, no, your daughter? And just started, Harry Truman has this great line, if you, if you can't convince them, confuse them.

• 50:12Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 50:13Jesse Itzler?

  So that's kind of been my-

• 50:14Rich Roll?

  I started to get that this is your tactic. Yeah. Just get everyone super confused.

• 50:18Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah. It led to a meeting and, you know, we, we took a meeting and presented our, our plan for Marquis Jet. And, um, we were faced with a no. You know, like this, this is not for us. We're not going to give two 30 year old kids, I was 30 at the time, um, our fleet of airplanes to try some kind of jet card program. And, um, we ended up going back a week later and instead of just taking that no, we brought in our own focus group of athletes and entertainers and, um, agents that talked about one by one, got up, we literally set up chairs like it was a focus group and discussed why they would never buy a share of an airplane or their own airplane, but they would buy what we were proposing,

• 50:59Jesse Itzler?

  this 25 hour card. And, and it ended up being a, a really big business.

• 51:04Rich Roll?

  That's interesting. I mean, why didn't, uh, with that knowledge, why wouldn't NetJets just create that internally?

• 51:10Jesse Itzler?

  I think two reasons.

• 51:11Rich Roll?

  Take that idea?

• 51:11Jesse Itzler?

  I think one, they didn't, I don't think they really thought it would be as big as it became. And two, we were, we were in that demo. We, we, we could reach that young customer and the athlete and talk to that guy better than they could. They were set up really to sell corporate and to high net worth, older individuals. We were selling to a much younger, we were selling to the Kobe Bryants of the world. And I think that they thought, well, if there's going to be any success, let's see if these guys can sell to that world. And we did.

• 51:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the one thing I that that you really seem to get is the value and importance of having that kind of celebrity endorser and that seems to be like a cornerstone of every business that you get into is making sure that it's sort of cool with those people, right? When they're signing on for it, that creates this ripple effect that then, you know, drives demand.

• 52:01Jesse Itzler?

  Yes, and no, though, the note of that is the product has to be great because celebrity will get someone to buy the product once and it'll get you on the shelves, but it won't get them to buy it twice. So you really have to, you have to win them with great product. Marquis Jet was a great product and Zico Coconut Water was a great product.

• 52:18Rich Roll?

  I love that story of how you chased after Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.

• 52:23Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 52:23Rich Roll?

  When you found out they were gonna be flying on some, some other client of yours, uh, share on their way to Sundance, right?

• 52:30Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, we just, we had just started Marquis Jet and every day I got a manifest of who was on the planes, who, you know, who was flying with us. And, uh, Matt was a guest and Ben were guests of somebody else. I saw their name and I was in New York and I was like, we were trying to build out the Hollywood vertical, so I was like, I have to get them to sign up to our program. So I literally was in a cab and, um, at the time I was running a lot, I was wearing shorts. It was winter, I was in shorts, I'm not even kidding, going to work. And I said to the guy, take me to LaGuardia and I just got on a, a plane to, to LA because their plane was flying from LA to the Sundance Film Festival. So I flew to LA, I met him on the plane, I introduced myself as Jesse, one of the co-founders of Marquis Jet and I'm, coincidence, I'm going to Sundance also.

• 53:15Jesse Itzler?

  I'm, you know, do you mind if I, guys, we, they had a huge upgrade scheduling, um, just on a fluke, they had a big plane. So I could actually sit in kind of like, uh, where the staff were to sit or, or on like a jump seat. So I told them I was just gonna quietly jump up, if you needed me, da, da, da, and then once we got in the air, I started talking to them. And, um, Matt said to me that, that they were having a, nice to meet you, he said, look, we're going to this Project Greenlight release, if you want to come, you can come meet us, um, love to see you at the, at the event at Sundance. Now, first of all, I had no clothing, I had no hotel, it's Sundance, everything is sold out, it's freezing. I'm in shorts.

• 53:53Rich Roll?

  You have no hotel there or any place to stay.

• 53:55Jesse Itzler?

  Nothing. And I'm like, oh, I got meetings, you know, this whole thing. And I get off the plane, so I I get some stuff. I check into the hotel like 20 miles away. I'm like, you know what? I I didn't close the deal. I gotta go to this thing. So I show up to the Project Greenlight event. There's 2,000 people online. I'm like, I'm not, how am I gonna get into here? So I went right up to the front of the line. And I said, hey, guys, I'm here with Matt and Ben. I'm on their advanced team to make sure that the tables are set up. The guy opened up the velvet rope, walked right in. And then I went, I went upstairs to the VIP table. And I took a black marker and I wrote my last name, Itzler, on a piece of paper, and I wrote reserved. Another piece, piece of paper. And I put it on one of the, uh, on the tabletops.

• 54:38Jesse Itzler?

  Next to Matt's table where it said like, you know, like the VIP thing. And I literally walk in there, walked in there and sat next to those guys. And, uh, I I asked them when they were flying home. They said, you know, we don't have anything booked yet. I said, why don't you guys fly home with me? Which I wasn't flying home. And, uh, on the flight home, I sold them a card.

• 54:57Rich Roll?

  Right. There you go. That's a great story, man.

• 54:59Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, we laugh about it still.

• 55:01Rich Roll?

  The balls of that is incredible. But they, did you tell them that whole, how the whole thing?

• 55:05Jesse Itzler?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:06Rich Roll?

  They know the story.

• 55:07Jesse Itzler?

  Oh, yeah. Now, like when I I talk to those guys about it and they crack up.

• 55:11Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that. So, so.

• 55:14Jesse Itzler?

  When we got back on the plane, Matt's manager said to me. He said to turn to Matt on the plane ride home and he goes, what's the manager from the club doing on our plane? No one knew what was going on.

• 55:27Rich Roll?

  That's great, man. So, so ultimately, uh, you exit, um, Marquee, it sells to to Berkshire Hathaway, right?

• 55:34Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 55:34Rich Roll?

  Um, and at some point, running enters the picture. Like, when does that start to creep in?

• 55:41Jesse Itzler?

  So I decided, um, you know, I ran this relay race, um, years ago, um, in San Diego, 24 hour relay. And it was wild because I got to see people run 100 miles by themselves, which I never thought was even possible. And I just has always planted a seed in my head that it was something that I would love to see if I was capable of doing. And I decided I wanted to, uh, raise money for a bunch of foundations. And I just signed up for this 24 hour race, um, with 100. I I was gonna stop at 100 if I got there.

• 56:15Jesse Itzler?

  So um, I took ninety days um off from work. I wouldn't say off, but committed ninety days during work to train for this race. And I trained like, I mean, I was going berserk, morning, night, you know, I would work and then I would just to prepare for the sleep deprivation, I would work till eleven and then run till six in the morning and go back to work, you know, you know, all the, all this stuff. And um, so that's, that was really where I got the bug. And then, you know, running takes a lot. I'm a big six, two guy and I'm, I'm not really built like a runner. But um, I got the endurance bug and started doing some stand up paddle races and anything that would, you know, just looked exciting.

• 56:56Rich Roll?

  Right. And so, so how did that hundred miler go for you?

• 57:01Jesse Itzler?

  It, you know, um, I had a really good game plan going in. I, I spent, I spent these ninety days talking to anyone that ever run a hundred miles, reading everything, hydration, nutrition. I had a great game plan. And I stuck to it until I couldn't stick to it because, you know, as you know.

• 57:19Rich Roll?

  And a hundred miles, it's gonna break loose on you.

• 57:21Jesse Itzler?

  It broke loose around sixty and seventy-five, it really, it, it flew away. And I just, you know, but I gutted it out, but it put me in a wheelchair. I was banged up. Uh, my hips and joints were really banged up and my feet were battered. I mean, totally battered. Um, but I, you know, it's the best thing I ever did in my life.

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  And you raised a bunch of money, right? Like a million and a half bucks?

• 57:45Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 57:46Rich Roll?

  And this is for the foundation that you started, right?

• 57:48Jesse Itzler?

  Yep. And I distributed it to ten different, you know, US-based charity, charitable organizations.

• 57:55Rich Roll?

  And does the, does the foundation still exist?

• 57:58Jesse Itzler?

  It does.

• 57:59Rich Roll?

  Like what's, what's going on with that?

• 58:00Jesse Itzler?

  You know, um, I'm, I'm new to this whole philanthropy stuff, you know, I'm still trying to figure out what the best way to deploy resources is. Um, so I'm going to a lot of conferences and listening and talking to a lot of people, but the foundation still exists. Um.

• 58:16Rich Roll?

  Hundred Mile Foundation.

• 58:17Jesse Itzler?

  Hundred Mile Man Foundation, yeah. And um, since then, I've done multiple hundred mile challenges to raise money for the foundation. And I also put my own money into the foundation. But um, we did a hundred mile bike ride called City to the Sand from New York City to the Hamptons. And we had a hundred CEOs that each raised ten grand, so a million dollars. We've done a, a hundred mile spin, spin thing in Central Park. Um.

• 58:44Jesse Itzler?

  I've done a thing called Hell on the Hill in my backyard. I have a really big incline in my house in Connecticut. It's about a 35% grade. That's about a little less than 100 yards. And we go up and down 100 times, about eight and a half miles. And but it's it's hard, really hard. It's really brutally hard. It only takes about, you know, well, actually, Goggins won it this year. He won it in 155, but it takes a regular human anywhere from three to four hours. But it is brutal.

• 59:18Rich Roll?

  Right. And so what does what does running mean to you? Like in your life equation? Like, how does that impact your family life, your, you know, your entrepreneurial life?

• 59:28Jesse Itzler?

  Well, it's my form of meditation. So, you know, if I don't run, I feel way worse. It's not a good day if I don't run. I'm just not connected to myself. I'm not, you know, I'm a little grumpy. But it's become habit for me. It's just it's worked into my pie chart. It's one of the things that I have to do. And it doesn't have to be a run. It could be a paddle. It could be burpees. It could be something. But the running, you know, I don't listen to music. It's a very spiritual thing for me. And I just like to, it's just my way of clearing my head and starting my day.

• 1:00:00Rich Roll?

  Never any music?

• 1:00:01Jesse Itzler?

  Never.

• 1:00:02Rich Roll?

  And in the in the 100 miler?

• 1:00:04Jesse Itzler?

  I put it on, I had a playlist that I knew I would probably need to get me through some part of it. And I put it on at mile 93. For the last couple of miles, I took it off. But no, I don't like to listen to music. I like to be totally clear in my thoughts. I get my best, do my best thinking when I'm running. Lately, I've been run, walking, I've been walking too, which I love. And that's my time.

• 1:00:29Rich Roll?

  Where's the best place to run around here?

• 1:00:32Jesse Itzler?

  Well, now I'm in Atlanta. I live in Atlanta full time. And

• 1:00:37Jesse Itzler?

  There's a great, you know, in my neighborhood, there's a ton of runners. It's, um, it's hilly, there's rolling hills, there's a nice four mile loop. So I do that a couple of times. There's some good hills and I love running steps. So I'll go to the stadium and I'll just run steps for an hour or something and I love that.

• 1:00:54Rich Roll?

  Well, that's, that's a good time to, good place to segue into the Atlanta Hawks. So this is, this is new for you, right?

• 1:01:01Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Rich Roll?

  You're a part owner of the Hawks. Uh, tell me what that's like, like what is, you know, what is, what does that mean in terms of, you know, your involvement and your participation in the organization?

• 1:01:12Jesse Itzler?

  Well, I'm a huge basketball fan, so I mean, there couldn't be anything more fun. And I love our organization and our team. I've been a season ticket holder here in Atlanta for a couple of years. So I've, I've been around the organization and, um, it's just such a pleasure and honor to work with the players and the staff we have. It's just, and the community, it's great. And, um, you know, we're new to this. We bought the team, a small group of, uh, a bunch of guys that I knew, friends. Um, and a couple of guys here in Atlanta. And, um, we've only been on board for about three or four months, so we're still learning. Um, there's a lot of work to do, but, uh, it's been, it's, I can't even explain it. It's just been phenomenal.

• 1:01:49Rich Roll?

  It's so crazy that like the guy who's writing these theme songs for the teams. I mean, if anyone would have said like, this guy one day is going to be an owner of one of the franchises. I mean, you can't script that, man.

• 1:02:01Jesse Itzler?

  No.

• 1:02:01Rich Roll?

  It's unbelievable.

• 1:02:03Jesse Itzler?

  It's impossible.

• 1:02:04Rich Roll?

  It's so crazy.

• 1:02:05Jesse Itzler?

  And lucky and fortunate and, um, believe me, I appreciate every minute of it. And, uh, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's been great. It's been great.

• 1:02:22Rich Roll?

  So what does it, your involvement entail? Like what does it look like in terms of your input or lack of input? Or your relationship with the players and, you know, all of that?

• 1:02:31Jesse Itzler?

  Well, because I'm here in Atlanta, a big part of it is, is community related. We've built five basketball courts in the inner cities here in Atlanta, um, recently. And we're, we have 25 more in the works. And so a combination of community efforts, a combination of some of the marketing stuff. I've done a lot of work in the past with the NBA. So, you know, that's an area that I want to focus on and that I think we need some, we can get better in. And, you know, but all the basketball stuff, we leave for the coaches and the coaching staff and, and guys that have a lot more experience and expertise than myself and my partners.

• 1:03:06Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. Well, these guys must know you have this book, obviously, out, right?

• 1:03:09Jesse Itzler?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:09Rich Roll?

  So is that, is that, is your kind of like lifestyle habits, uh, wearing off on any of the players?

• 1:03:16Jesse Itzler?

  Uh, you know, I'm, well, I'm lucky because, um, one of the guys, Kyle Corver, one of our players, does a thing called the Masagi, uh, every year, which is a Japanese term. I don't know the exact specifics, but basically you do something that you do not think you could possibly finish that can completely test your will and challenge your soul. For example, and this is a guy on our team.

• 1:03:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:39Jesse Itzler?

  So he loves.

• 1:03:40Rich Roll?

  Right up your alley, yeah.

• 1:03:41Jesse Itzler?

  Last year, he and a friend took, I believe it was like a 60 or an 80 pound boulder and dropped it in five feet of ocean water. And they would dive down one by one and move the boulder for three miles. It took them like 17 hours. And, you know, of course, there's all kinds of challenges, physical, fatigue, mental. And every year this guy, so when I heard this story, I'm like, this is perfect, perfect for me. So I gave Kyle the, uh, the book and he loved it. Told me he started doing, you know, some of these push up and pull up challenges and, and this and that. So the guys, you know, look, I think they can relate to the whole hundred mile experience and what the preparation that it took and the will, um, and they're professional athletes.

• 1:04:24Jesse Itzler?

  They go through their same challenges, like how do you get up for a game 80 times a year? I mean, it's a lot what these guys go through. You don't realize it. You say, oh, this is, these guys are getting paid to play basketball, but no, it's grueling. It's physical, it's exhausting, there's travel, there's other life stuff going on, family. Um, and they have to get up and perform every night. And we have a, we have a team of guys, um, that do that. I mean, they're diving for loose balls and jumping in the bleachers. So it's, it's great to see.

• 1:04:54Rich Roll?

  Have you ever thought about bringing David out to talk with the guys?

• 1:04:57Jesse Itzler?

  Absolutely. They all know the story and it's in the works. They can be a great motivator for these guys.

• 1:05:02Rich Roll?

  That's fantastic. Very cool. All right. Well, you're, you know, you're married to, uh, you know, an amazingly successful entrepreneur. Between the two of you, you have, you know, very rich business lives. You also have three kids. How do you, how do you like find that work-life balance in terms of making sure that you're attending to your relationship? You know, she's busy, you're busy, you're doing all these things. You've got this, you know, great family and young kids. So how does that work?

• 1:05:29Jesse Itzler?

  Well, I'm not gonna lie, it's hard. You know, um, I would be lying to say that it's not challenging. Sarah's got her business and a lot of responsibilities and her foundation, which is a lot bigger than my foundation. And, um, you know, trying to, to manage all this stuff with our kids is hard. But we know, we are, um, we're very mindful of our time. We make sure that we have a date night and we're date nights every week. We eat as a family all the time. We share ideas all the time. We carve out time for walks and try to make it work.

• 1:05:59Rich Roll?

  Are you on each other's sort of board of advisors, you know, in terms of like bouncing ideas off each other in, in a business way? Or do you guys have rules around like when you talk about business and when you don't?

• 1:06:10Jesse Itzler?

  We, you know what? We bounce new ideas off of each other a lot. We don't, I don't get it too into Sarah's business and she doesn't get too into mine. However, what better person to or advisor than my wife? I mean, she's, she's just an incredible business mind, incredibly creative. So I have the luxury of turning to my left in the morning and saying, sweetie, what do you think of this idea? And getting, you know, the advice of, of a, of a consultant, of a high-paid consultant.

• 1:06:36Rich Roll?

  If she's like, no, it's a terrible idea. And then you go and do it anyway?

• 1:06:41Jesse Itzler?

  She, that doesn't happen. She trumps everything. In fact, if something is fully baked and she's like, you know what? This should be blue and not red. It's blue. Yup.

• 1:06:50Rich Roll?

  That's a smart man. That's the marriage secret right there, right?

• 1:06:54Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, I learned two things in this, in this marriage. One is I'm never going to question my wife's decisions when it comes to business or business decisions. And two is I'm not going to compete with her or anything because she's too good.

• 1:07:04Rich Roll?

  Right, and sitting like for those that are listening, right, right to my left are two pictures hanging on the wall. One of her on the cover of Forbes and the other one on the cover of Time Magazine. I think she stands from a place of authority on this.

• 1:07:16Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, she's unbelievable.

• 1:07:17Rich Roll?

  Cool, well, let's talk about the diet a little bit and then I'll, you know, we can, we can wrap it up. But you got a really interesting take on, on nutrition.

• 1:07:26Jesse Itzler?

  Yup.

• 1:07:27Rich Roll?

  Only fruit before noon is, that's what sort of grabs the headline, but there's a lot more going on there too, isn't there?

• 1:07:33Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, I mean, I read a book called Fit for Life and, and I was fortunate enough to, to get this book early in my life. When I was running my first marathon and the book was written by a guy named Harvey Diamond and his wife Marilyn Diamond. And I don't know what drew, what attracted me to the book, but I couldn't put it down. And one of the principles was to only eat fruit until noon because, you know, digestion takes more energy than anything. And we want energy, we don't want to use energy. So the more efficiently we can digest food and obviously the more processed foods, the more meats, the more animal products, et cetera. The harder it is to digest, the less energy, the bigger the breakfast, the less energy.

• 1:08:15Jesse Itzler?

  So that was one of the big takeaways for me and I tried it for 10 days. I said, you know what, I've been eating bagels every morning, I've been eating cereals. And I just switched over to fresh cut fruit.

• 1:08:26Rich Roll?

  When was that, how long ago was that?

• 1:08:27Jesse Itzler?

  Ninety-two. And I was running my, getting ready to run my first marathon. And after about 10 days, I said, you know what, let me go back and, and have my old breakfast. Let me make some bagels and eggs and this kind of thing. And I felt terrible. And I was like, holy cow, this is unbelievable. And I lost weight, I got lean, I was running like a machine. I was recovering better, everything got better. And then there were other takeaways in the book, not to mix proteins and starches, not to, you know, other, other takeaways. But, um, and it's been, it's been something that I've been unwavering on. I'm a vegetarian, I'm a vegan, I eat pretty much 80%.

• 1:09:10Jesse Itzler?

  I'm a vegan 90% of the time, I'm raw 80% of the time.

• 1:09:17Jesse Itzler?

  And it's just been, you know. People ask me the same questions they probably ask you, where do you get your protein? All these things.

• 1:09:25Rich Roll?

  Well, also, right now with this kind of low carb craze, like the idea that, you know, you shouldn't be eating fruit. That's like bad for you. You know, I'm sure you get a lot of questions like that.

• 1:09:33Jesse Itzler?

  I eat 15 bananas a day. I've never missed a day at work. I've, you know, I've, I run all the time. I have crazy energy, at least in my opinion. I've never met anyone that's protein deficient. I just got all my blood work done. I think I, you know, I came back like I'm 18 years old. I'm 47. Not to jinx anything, anything can happen, but on a daily basis, you know, I feel good. And I, I would say to everybody, you know, there's all kinds of theories, right? Have milk, don't have milk. Have fruit, don't have fruit. Too much sugar in fruit, too much this. Try different things and see how your body reacts and how you feel. For me, this worked great and I haven't, I haven't changed off of the, deviated from the path in 25 plus years.

• 1:10:18Rich Roll?

  And, and how does it, how does it work with your wife and your kids?

• 1:10:22Jesse Itzler?

  Oh, they, my wife eats french fries and cheeseburgers and it's like a linebacker.

• 1:10:25Rich Roll?

  Not rubbing off on her?

• 1:10:27Jesse Itzler?

  But that's what works for her. And no, for my kids, I, I, I have a couple of rules. One is, you know, the first thing in the morning for my six year old, he has to eat something that's alive. So I don't want him to eat something processed. And then if he wants to have a waffle, he can have a waffle. But I really encourage him to have a piece of fruit or fresh squeezed orange juice or a banana before the waffle. And I just encourage him to make healthy decisions. I mean, he's around me, so he knows my commitment to it. Uh, and how important it is to me. And I try to teach him as much as I can, but he's six. And in this country, it's hard. And I'll tell you, the hardest thing for me as a parent, because of my passion for food, is when my son goes to school.

• 1:11:08Jesse Itzler?

  And, you know, other parents are deciding what my parent, what my son is gonna, is gonna eat that day.

• 1:11:15Rich Roll?

  Right. And especially at this age, when the habits are just forming, right? And you want to be able to exercise some influence and control over that with an eye towards the long term. But then knowing that like, you know, most of their day or half of their day is at school where you're not involved in that.

• 1:11:31Jesse Itzler?

  Right. And you know, you guys, we're gonna have, right. So we're gonna have a celebration for Thanksgiving or Halloween or whatever. You know, why do we have to have? Everything like, I mean, it's just crazy to me. So anyway, that's, that's challenging.

• 1:11:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:48Jesse Itzler?

  And frustrating. Do the best you can.

• 1:11:50Rich Roll?

  All right, I want to wrap it up with one final inquiry around relationships. Cause I gather like from you and just, you know, sort of poking around the internet, getting a sense of, of who you are and how you function. That, you know, relationships are really at the center of your kind of success equation. Like not in a, not in a sort of conscious way of building a network, but just an appreciation for the value of relationships. Like in your life in business and outside of business.

• 1:12:18Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah, I mean, I, it is very important. It's the single most important thing for me in business. I wasn't, I didn't over index in any category as it relates to not, you know, as you would think it would relate to business. But I've been able to, to get, I think to advance and move the ball downfield based on just authentic relationships. And really just, you know, one of the best things about being successful, having a little bit of money or whatever, is being able to spoil your friends and family and those that you care about and to help people. And I, I think I had that in me before, you know, anything when I was living with my parents in my house. I think I've always had that. And I think that, um, you know, it's translated into real good relationships.

• 1:13:03Jesse Itzler?

  And, um, you know, in your twenties and thirties, you never know who's going to be in a position of power in your forties and fifties. But the guys that I've come up with in my twenties, you know, there's always a couple of guys or gals that are in really big decision-making positions. And, um, you know, if you have those relationships, you maintain them and they're authentic, they'll be very rewarding.

• 1:13:26Rich Roll?

  I feel like you understood that your twenties are a good time to really explore yourself and figure out what you really want to do before committing to anything. As opposed to just getting on a train and trying to, you know, sort of move up a corporate ladder.

• 1:13:40Jesse Itzler?

  But I had to rely on meeting people. I had to rely on, you know, I didn't have an Ivy education or anything like that. I had to rely on those relationships. My twenties were spent meeting people and cultivating relationships, staying in touch, inviting people, including people that I liked, getting rid of people that I didn't like. And, and maintaining those friendships. And that was a huge part of my twenties. I mean, spending my, my nights, you know, I, I tried to own the nights more than the days.

• 1:14:08Rich Roll?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:14:09Jesse Itzler?

  You know, I, I want, those were, those were key hours for me in the twenties. That's when people were going out, making friendships. Um, it wasn't about work. It was just about, you know, who you got along with and, and I would go out all the time. I wasn't a drinker. I wasn't a partier. Um, but I would go out. I was out. I was active. I was getting phone numbers, returning calls, meeting people, inviting them, connecting dots. Um, and then I would lean on, I would lean on people when I needed, you know, people, people generally like to help people. Um, I'm seeing it with my book now. You know, so many of my friends have been so supportive, even people from 20 years ago. Um, so you just don't know.

• 1:14:48Rich Roll?

  You're getting like crazy like tweets. You know, you got Maria Shriver tweeting. Was it Trump tweet your book?

• 1:14:55Jesse Itzler?

  Trump, LeBron. I mean, yeah.

• 1:14:58Rich Roll?

  That's insane, man.

• 1:14:59Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I, I, and also I think, you know, look, the book is a fun read. It's a fun, funny read.

• 1:15:05Rich Roll?

  You can read it in like two hours, three hours.

• 1:15:07Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:08Rich Roll?

  One sitting. It's really easy and fun to read.

• 1:15:10Jesse Itzler?

  But people are doing it on their own and I think it's out of a true appreciation for our genuine friendship, you know?

• 1:15:17Rich Roll?

  I think most people are, you know, we're habits of routine and routine has its place and, you know, I like routines and I'm productive in routines. But, you know, really the call to action of this book is, is to shake up your routine, to get out of your routine and to really, you know, take a look in the mirror and, uh, and, you know, challenge yourself to, you know, do something that makes you uncomfortable in a, you know, culture that values, you know, sort of security and comfort above all, you know? So there's all of that to overcome. Um, and I love that about it. And, you know, the, one of the things that, that really stuck with me that I think I'm gonna spend a lot of time thinking about is the, the Goggins accountability mirror.

• 1:16:00Jesse Itzler?

  Yes.

• 1:16:01Rich Roll?

  So tell me what that is.

• 1:16:03Jesse Itzler?

  Well, he, I mean, he would always, he's been shaving his head and his face every morning since he's 18 years old because he wanted to be comfortable with the reflection in the mirror. He wanted to see his whole face and look into his soul and be comfortable with what he saw. And if he wasn't, he was gonna make changes. And I think, you know, Goggins' whole thing is, you know, he's sick of people feeling sorry for themselves. It's like, we have to be accountable for ourself. There's an accountability mirror. That's what he looks in every day. And you gotta be comfortable with your reflection in the mirror. And I, you know, I agree with him. You know, we all, we're, we live in a world of a lot of excuses and blame, but where's the accountability? You know, like, if you didn't run today, whose fault is that?

• 1:16:48Jesse Itzler?

  You don't blame it on your schedule. Go and do it.

• 1:16:52Rich Roll?

  So if someone's listening to this, and they are one of those people that fall into that category of, you know, being in a rut, or perhaps stuck in a job they don't like, or circumstances that they feel like they don't have control over, you know, what is your call to action as the first step to, to shift that?

• 1:17:10Jesse Itzler?

  It's just, you, you have to be willing to get uncomfortable to get better. And you have to just take that first step and, and to reap the rewards. And it really, you know, there's no silver bullet. There's nothing. There's nothing. It's you. And you have to just do it yourself. No one can tell you to do it. You can't list, read a book or this. You have to wanna do it for you. And when you wanna do it, you'll do it. You did it. Look what you did. You turned your whole life around from the bottom.

• 1:17:37Rich Roll?

  But the, but pain is the motivator. You know what I mean? Like, being in, I was in a sufficient enough pain that I was ready to make that shift. You know, how do you make that shift without the elevator going all the way down?

• 1:17:49Jesse Itzler?

  And you were sick of you. You wanted a different you. You wanted a different you.

• 1:17:54Rich Roll?

  So you gotta want it.

• 1:17:56Jesse Itzler?

  You gotta want it. But you gotta authentically want it, not just say you want it.

• 1:18:01Rich Roll?

  Thanks for talking to me, man.

• 1:18:02Jesse Itzler?

  Appreciate it.

• 1:18:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, really appreciate it. The book is Living with a Seal. If you're digging on Jesse, the best way to connect with you is you're at the100milenonTwitter.

• 1:18:14Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:14Rich Roll?

  And the website is...

• 1:18:16Jesse Itzler?

  The100milenon, the number 100, the number100milenon.com.

• 1:18:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you're on Facebook and all those other places, right? You're easy, easy guy to track down.

• 1:18:24Jesse Itzler?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:25Rich Roll?

  Alright, cool. Congrats on the book, man. It's really a great read. Everybody should pick it up and check it out. And it will improve your life, I think, and at least make you think about stuff, I think, a little bit more deeply, so.

• 1:18:38Jesse Itzler?

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:18:40Rich Roll?

  Peace. Plants.

• 1:18:54Rich Roll?

  Alright, I hope you guys enjoyed that. That was really fun. I really dug sitting down with Jesse and getting to know him a little bit. Don't forget to pick up a copy of his new book, Living with a Seal. Do that by clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com. Everybody wins. And don't forget to check out this week's comprehensive show notes at richroll.com on the episode page for this episode. Lots of stuff to delve in there to take your edification to the next level, beyond the earbuds, to learn more about Jesse and his life and wisdom. And don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter at richroll.com and download the free iOS app to access the entire RRP catalog for free. Because as you know, only the most recent episodes of the podcast are available on iTunes. Only the most 50 recent, I should say.

• 1:19:38Rich Roll?

  If you like online courses, I got two of those at mindbodygreen.com, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, and also The Art of Living with Purpose. The first one's all about dialing in your plate, how to get more plant-powered in your life and lifestyle. The second one is all about setting goals and achieving them, sort of the inside work that's precedent to getting you on the proper trajectory for your life. Both of those courses are multiple hours of streaming video content, and they are... On sale right now at MindBodyGreen.com at 30% off through December 1st. So you gotta act fast to get that. Really proud of those courses. Just go to MindBodyGreen.com, click on video courses and you can find both of them there. For all your plant power needs, go to Ritual.com. You can check out The Plant Power Way, our new cookbook and lifestyle guide.

• 1:20:22Rich Roll?

  We've got signed copies of those as well as signed copies of my memoir, Finding Ultra. We've got Julie's guided meditation program. People love that. We've got nutrition products. We've got 100% organic cotton garments, sticker packs, fun stuff like that. Find art prints, basically a whole bunch of cool stuff to take your health and your life to the next level. If you happen to be in the Los Angeles area, make a point of dropping into Joy Cafe. That's our plant-based restaurant out in the Westlake Village area. And as I've said before, and I will say again, it feels really good to sort of put out a healthy message across the globe, but it also feels good to invest in my local community. And that's what Joy Cafe is all about.

• 1:21:03Rich Roll?

  As well as Karma Baker, which is a vegan gluten-free bakery that I'm also partnered in, also in the Westlake Village area. You can go to JoyCafe.com or the Karma Baker. You just search that, you can find it online, all kinds of good stuff to learn more about that. And you know, I lunch at Joy Cafe most of the time during the week. You can find me there if you want to connect with me in person. What else can I tell you? Thanks for supporting the show, for telling your friend, for sharing it on social media. I really appreciate you guys. I love you guys as my audience, of course. Thank you for using the Amazon banner out at Ritual.com for all of your Amazon purchases. I hope you guys are enjoying returning to work after a happy Thanksgiving weekend. And I will see you guys back here in a couple of days with another epic, extraordinary,

• 1:21:48Rich Roll?

  awesome episode of the RRP. Until then, make it great and take care of yourself, you guys. Peace. Plants. ... Plants.