It’s An Inside Job: Olaniyi Sobomehin On How To Maximize Potential In Sport & Life

We tend to assume the successful are simply gifted. Or perhaps just lucky — at the right place at the right time. Olaniyi Sobomehin is not one of those people. But he does have one thing most lack: vision and self-belief. A middle child with a life long dream to play in the NFL, Niyi lacked the natural gifts required to even earn a college football scholarship. Friends and family repeated the refrain: be realistic. Niyi ignored the advice, invested in himself and walked on the Oregon State program with little to no chance of seeing game time. But sheer determination, exceptional mental toughness, and an unparalleled ability to out work everyone on the field turned this no name walk on into a running back for The New Orleans Saints, where he finally realized his childhood dream playing alongside NFL greats like Drew Brees. A voracious reader able to translate wisdom into actionable practices, Niyi understood that the tools he relied upon for athletic success would apply equally to life after football. So upon retirement he turned his professional focus to I'm Not You– a platform to help young athletes develop the habits, strategies, systems and techniques required to maximize potential in sport and life. Niyi's approach has little to do with physical training. It's about overcoming mental limitations. It's about mindset. Because the relationship one has with one's self is what ultimately dictates outcomes. In other words, it's an inside job. Today we talk about the strategies Niyi distilled from playing at the highest level of sport and how these tools can be applied to unlock your own inner potential. Specifics include: * how to overcome a talent deficit * developing confidence through facing fear * techniques for developing a mental edge * what holds most athletes (and people) back * the common habits of the most successful athletes * the benefits of affirmation & visualization techniques * morning routines to optimize your day * why he surveys his family weekly; and * why getting uncomfortable is the key to success I love this guy's passion. Niyi's enthusiasm for life and devotion to service is infectious, buttressed by a perspective germane well beyond the boundaries of sport. So even if you’re not an athlete, this conversation delivers. Chocked with copious gems applicable to every facet of personal and professional development, it's a natural bookend to echo and complement my preceding conversation with Jesse Itzler and the principles he learned living with Navy SEAL David Goggins. Question: What Belief About Yourself Is Holding You Back? I'd love to hear all about it in the comments section below. I sincerely hope you enjoy this walk in Niyi's cleats as much as I did. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:06Speaker 01

  I focus on athletes that want to do big things. So if you want to reach that goal, there's going to be challenges, there's going to be obstacles, there's going to be injuries, there's going to be setbacks, there's going to be hurdles. But how do you deal with them? Because that's ultimately what separates the guys at the top from everybody else.

• 1:21Rich Roll?

  That's Olanihi Shabomahin, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:39Rich Roll?

  Hey, what's up, everybody? My name is Rich Roll. I am your host. Welcome to the show. This is the show where I do my best, my very best. I try, I really, really do, to have meaningful conversations with compelling individuals.

• 1:53Rich Roll?

  About things that matter, all as a means to help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. So, thank you so much for tuning into the show today, for subscribing to the show on iTunes, for taking a moment to leave us a review on iTunes. That helps us out a lot. And of course, for always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. The holiday season is upon us, like it or not. You might find yourself on Amazon purchasing a gift. Well, it would mean so much to us if you would take that extra millisecond and click through the banner ad at richroll.com first. It won't cost you anything extra. It just shakes loose a little bit of extra commission change on the Amazon side of the equation, and that really helps us keep the bandwidth flowing.

• 2:36Rich Roll?

  It means a lot to us. So, thank you so much to everybody who has made a habit of that. We greatly, greatly appreciate it, as I've said many times before. Okay, so, today I've got Ola Niihi Shobamahin on the program. I think I said that right. He goes by Niihi for short. He's a great guy. He's a very entertaining, energetic guy. He is a former running back for the New Orleans Saints. He's now a firefighter and a coach, and the man behind a website called imnotyou.com, where he helps athletes of all skill levels and ages develop mindsets, habits, and systems to overcome fear and other mental limitations to unlock full potential. So, even if you're not an athlete, there is a ton of great information

• 3:21Rich Roll?

  in this conversation for everybody to mine in every area or facet of your life. And I've got a few more things I want to say about Niihi in a minute, but first.

• 3:37Rich Roll?

  All right, so, let's talk about today's show, today's guest, Ola Niihi Shobamahin. For me, one of the more interesting things about this guy is that he was never the most talented or naturally gifted athlete. He was actually a walk-on player at the Oregon State Football Program, yet through sheer determination, a huge heart, this immense capacity for mental toughness, and extraordinary work ethic, basically by

• 4:03Rich Roll?

  Virtue of his desire to learn as much as he could from a wide variety of sport and life influencers, implement what he learned, essentially the willingness to do things others wouldn't, he was able to achieve his dream and make it all the way to the NFL. And I think there are a lot of important lessons in that for all of us. Now, he's retired, he's a family man, he's working two careers, he's a firefighter, but his passion is really his commitment to coaching and helping young athletes, athletes of all types, ranging from middle school all the way to the pros, to help them realize their dreams and potential by teaching habits, mindset and strategy, systems and techniques to dominate their

• 4:47Rich Roll?

  sport. But like I said earlier, I think the fundamentals of Niihi's philosophy and approach are super germane to not just sport, but to maximizing potential in the pursuit of whatever dream you foster. I love Niihi's passion, his enthusiasm and perspective, and I felt his message would really nicely complement the message of my last podcast with Jesse Itzler and the principles that he learned living with Navy SEAL David Goggins. So today, we're going to talk about a lot of stuff, including how to overcome a talent deficit, combating fear and developing confidence, techniques for developing a mental edge, what holds most athletes, most people, back, the common habits of the most successful

• 5:31Rich Roll?

  athletes, the benefits of affirmation and visualization techniques, why he surveys his wife and kids every week on how he is doing. It's sort of like his version of the Goggins' accountability mirror. And again, much like Jesse Itzler and David Goggins, why being uncomfortable is the key to success. So let's walk a mile in Niihi's cleats.

• 6:08Rich Roll?

  So Ni, Ni Shobo.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Yes, Ni Shobo.

• 6:12Rich Roll?

  That's short for Ola Ni Shoba Muhin?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not bad, actually, man.

• 6:18Rich Roll?

  I didn't get it perfect, though, right?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Ola Ni Shobo Muhin is the full name.

• 6:23Rich Roll?

  But people just call you Ni.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yep, my whole family calls me Ni. Most of my football-playing days it was Shobo, and that's what I go by now. My friends call me that at the fire department as well, so.

• 6:35Rich Roll?

  Cool, man. So what are you doing down in LA?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Man, LA, so, other than coming here to chat with you, man, me and my wife just got back from the Tony Robbins convention. It was incredible, man, last week, four days, unleash the power within.

• 6:48Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  And so Tony Robbins is a guy that I follow a lot and I've learned a lot from, just in terms of, he's really changed a lot for me in terms of how I relate to athletes, and I've learned a lot through his material. So I decided, I have a coach through his program as well, and so I decided to take me and my wife down here to do it, man. And it was, I didn't know what to expect. They call it a seminar, but to call it a seminar is not doing it justice at all, man. It was like, an experience that I can't even really fully explain, but it was a spiritual type of experience, which I'm not used to those type. Like, one of the biggest takeaways for me, walking away with this, is like, I kind of just totally switched the way that I look at what my definition of success is.

• 7:33Rich Roll?

  How did it change?

• 7:36Speaker 01

  So, I'm one of those, I'm an athlete, obviously. Like, I played NFL ball for a couple of years in my whole life. I was one of four boys. My dad is from Nigeria, a very masculine man, and so I never, I always was an achiever in terms of, like, I always... Kind of saw myself as someone who I always push forward, I always go after what I want. I've, I've had the opportunity to reach a lot of goals in my life. And so, a lot of men, we have this idea that in order to feel successful, we have to reach a certain status, like a certain level.

• 8:08Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And it's the same thing with a lot of athletes that I work with now. They feel like they can't be confident until they reach this, this level of success that they're going after. But I realized that, man, life is so much more about connection. It's about love, it's about love. And as corny as that sounds to someone like me, that would have sounded corny to me.

• 8:27Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Like, it's, it's, it's about as real as it gets, man.

• 8:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're not talking about love in the locker room at the same time.

• 8:35Rich Roll?

  That doesn't go over so good.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Not, not too much, man. But ironically, or weirdly enough, it actually, it inspires you even more when you connect to a deeper part of you. And it's, it's, it's so much more than just achieving a certain goal, or reaching this, or making a certain amount of money. And I realized that I've been holding myself back a lot, and not just with my wife, but with my kids as well. And just in general, I was realizing that I connect with a lot of people. But in terms of deep, deep relationships, that's something that hasn't been a skill of mine. And I've kind of known that, and I found out that, you know, in order for me to really feel the level, or to feel the feelings, like, one of the things that he talked about is like, everyone is going after feelings. It's really not, when you say you want a car, you want money, or you want, you know, a girlfriend, or a wife, or a husband,

• 9:21Speaker 01

  it's really not that you want, it's the feeling that you'll get. And so, for me, really identifying with those.

• 9:26Rich Roll?

  Or the feeling that you think it's going to give you about who you are that informs your identity. When you, when you like hang your hat on, you know, status, or certain material possessions, as being formative of your identity, and the recipe for happiness, you're just chasing the dragon, man.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 9:42Rich Roll?

  Because it's inside.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yup. And that leads to so much frustration. And so, one of the emotions that I, I experience a lot is frustration. And, and athletes can relate to this, and I'm sure a lot of men. But in, in order for me to feel frustrated, it's like, when I'm, if, when I'm reaching after certain goals, or pushing forward and trying to achieve. If I don't see the results that I want right away, that leads to frustration. And then I have this feeling that, you know, I shouldn't be frustrated. So then I try to hide my frustration and I try to act like I got it going on and I got everything figured out. And that leads to more frustration.

• 10:14Rich Roll?

  You gotta front a little bit, you know what I mean?

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 10:16Rich Roll?

  Clamp down on that pain and that fear.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then that has negative repercussions and, you know, relationships. And that leads to me not really getting in touch with like who I really am and really expressing myself and letting go. So it was, it was an incredibly enlightening experience.

• 10:33Rich Roll?

  It make you cry?

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Oh, hey, so, no, so this is, my, my kids, they always talk about how they never see me cry. And particularly my oldest daughter, she always tries to get me to cry. So there's been a couple of times where I've been close, you know, and she'll be like, go ahead and cry. And then you know that just messes it up. So then I'm, I clamp up, I'm like, nah. And so I never saw my dad cry, never, like my brothers don't cry. And so I don't know if I've, that that's something I took pride in, but I, I never wanted to cry. Like I don't, I'm not the type of guy who wants to, but this weekend, over the course of the four days, like I cried more than I ever have. Like, I mean, each day I did, uh, just sobbing, you know, and it was more like gratitude, man.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Like I, I never, I never really felt that level of gratitude before, like just truly blessed, that feeling of being blessed. And that's what overwhelmed me so much to where I was crying. And when we first got there, so a lot of people were telling us, don't sit next to your wife. You know, and so, and so we heard from the first guy and I'm like, alright, uh, that makes sense to me, you know? Cause I, I kinda like wanted to, you know, be able to express myself in a way without having to wonder about like if she was gonna be... And then they ask certain questions and you don't wanna be like, and she's looking at me like, oh, what are you gonna say type of thing? And then we heard from another person and so I was like, yo... Maybe I think it might be a good idea for us to, you know, listen to these people's advice. And she wasn't really with that at first, like my wife really wanted to sit next to me.

• 12:01Rich Roll?

  Cause they don't edit you.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. Even if you feel like, you know, even, and me and my wife are extremely close. We have a very open relationship, but it was just a level, and I, I needed to be on my own for that. Because by me doing that, I, I got in touch with a level, a side of me that I've never felt before. And she's very happy for that, you know, and she can tell the difference has been, shoot, it just ended, uh, what was it, Sunday? You know, and I feel like a totally different man.

• 12:28Rich Roll?

  That's crazy, man. Did you, uh, did you walk on the hot coals?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Yes, we did, man.

• 12:33Rich Roll?

  How does that work?

• 12:34Speaker 01

  It's, oh man, it was, it was wild. So that's actually the first night. And I don't know if I, I guess I can talk about it. No one told me not to talk about it, but it was, it was, uh, there's 10,000 people there in the, in the Los Angeles Convention Center. And I've always heard about the walk on the coals, but it wasn't really something that scared me because I was thinking, if a bunch of people have done it before.

• 12:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, they've been doing it for years. Everybody does it. So there's gotta be something, you know, like, but like, I still don't get it. I still don't get why not everyone is burning their feet.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  No, so here's how it works. And this is, this is one of the things that I've always heard about. And I, I thought I knew, but you don't know it until you feel it, you know? And that's one of the biggest takeaways from this weekend as well is like, you can understand something all you want, but you won't really like, until you internalize it, until it's in your nervous system, like you can't really understand it. And so.

• 13:23Rich Roll?

  The difference between knowledge and experience.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so he taught us how to access this state of just pure unstoppable ability and confidence. And, uh, he has the unique ability, Tony Robbins has a very unique ability to like, there's 10,000 people in there and you feel like he's talking directly to you. Like you, I mean, he talking about chill bumps, just absolutely hype. And he got everyone in there to access the state of just pure unstoppable ability. And not just, not just like some corny like rah rah type of stuff, but actually to the point where like, you feel like you can literally do anything. And so what happens is when you're in that state, your body actually like will, you will not get burned because you have that level of certainty. So we always talk about belief. And this is one thing I, I talk to my athletes about is like.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  If you say that you know you can do something, but if you need to raise that level of belief to where it's, it's not even you expected, you know, and that's something that intellectually you can say, okay, yeah, I get it. I believe I can do this. But no, you don't really, you don't really believe that.

• 14:25Rich Roll?

  No, yeah, the difference between like talking yourself into it and knowing it in your bones.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. Know it in your bones. So he got us to feel it in our bones to where 10,000 people are walking over 2,000 degree hot burning coals and not getting burned, you know, and so.

• 14:40Rich Roll?

  Does anybody crap out and not do it? There's gotta be people that like.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  I felt like I saw this, I was watching and so they have like these African drums playing. It's really like creepy. It's like everyone chanting and stuff and there's all these coals and, um, and people are just screaming and just hype. But, uh, there was, I saw a few times where people kind of backed out, but they ended up going through again because you, the thing about it is you actually will get burned if you don't have that level of certainty, which is crazy. So like, he, he taught us very specifically how to go through it. So one of the things is you, once you go through over the hot coals, you have to maintain that, that level of certainty and that, and be in that peak state. Otherwise you will get burned because sometimes there's some coals stuck on your toes or the bottom of your feet. So you gotta wait, like you gotta be hyped all the way until, you know, you wipe it all off.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  But, um, he talked about there's some, I can't remember which, uh, group of people who that's a part of their culture when they do that, but you have to be, and that's what, that, that's, it's like a level of certainty that I've never in my life felt before, like that I feel like is a part of every person.

• 15:41Rich Roll?

  What do you think it is about Tony Robbins that makes him so compelling? Like I look at him and he, he like, he doesn't even look like a human being.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:49Rich Roll?

  He's like some kind of alien cyborg that like came down to earth, you know, with like some kind of wisdom that he imparts upon people. But I mean, he's incredibly gifted at what he does for sure. But I'm like, what's that guy? Does that guy ever like, you know, just, like I feel like, does he ever let his guard down?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:08Rich Roll?

  What does he like? Like behind closed doors? You know, it's, it's hard to get a grip on what he's like, but he's a special person. But it's kind of like, it's sort of like the same thing that you see with someone like Oprah, you know, like they're like, they have the big head, you know, like it doesn't quite fit the body.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Exactly, man. And so, like I told you, man, I followed this guy, like, I, I've read all his books. I listened to a lot of his audio programs and things. And when you, when I actually went to the event and hear him talk live, he's, he's not a different guy, but he puts, he has the ability to wear a different mask in a way, but he's, he's uncut in these, in these, uh, in these events. And so, he's cursing, he's like, I mean, he's going all out and you, you really get, he tells a lot of stories that you don't hear in his books and that you might not hear on his audio programs. And you really get a feeling that this guy really, he is human. Like, he talks, uh, he's very, I feel like, um, he got, he gets vulnerable in terms of sharing stories about himself, uh, earlier on and sort of

• 17:06Speaker 01

  the things that made him do what he does and where he is now. And even, he even talks about some of the things he did early in his career that he does totally different now, you know? And so, you, you just gotta go to one of his events, man. And he's, it's very inspirational because to see a guy, actually, at one point, I was literally crying because of how grateful I was for a person like him. And, and, and this represents a lot of people that, that I follow that are mentors to me. And, and I know you provide this for people who listen to you, but, and I've read your book, Finding Ultra, right? And so, for you to like, share your story and to, to achieve a certain level of mastery in your life, you know, to, uh, you are impacting so many people. And that's so inspiring to me, because that's something that drives me. I don't want my story to be so,

• 17:51Speaker 01

  I don't wanna close myself off to the world. I, I wanna be able to touch, like, millions of people through what it is that I, that I've been able to do and what I continue to do. And so, in order to do that, you have to become the type of guy who, who, who deserves that level of, of, uh,

• 18:08Rich Roll?

  Right. Who can like, who can, who can like, hold that authority or, and say, and stand in that space.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 18:14Rich Roll?

  And like, own it completely.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. And he's, and he's, he's paid that price. I mean, he's been doing it for thirty something years. The, he, he literally, he has his master university where he, um, he, he teaches you how to manage your finances, uh, relationships, business. And he's, he's earned that because he's mastered every single one of those areas of his life. Where it's like, it's like, you have no choice but to just salute him, man. Like, just salute, man. And, uh, It was, it was pretty incredible.

• 18:41Rich Roll?

  That's cool, man. Good, good. Very cool. Well, thanks for making the trip down here, man.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Definitely, man.

• 18:45Rich Roll?

  It's nice to meet you. And let's, let's like, uh, let's, let's unpack it, dude. I want to get into the football career and kind of what you're doing with the coaching, but maybe a good place to start is to just talk about, uh, I'm not you.com and kind of what's going on with that and, and your kind of perspective with working with athletes and kind of some of the principles that, um, you are, uh, you know, teaching and imparting to young athletes to help them, you know, maximize their performance.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Definitely, man. So, just to give you a little backstory. So, I'm from Portland, Oregon, and I, I grew up playing football and I loved it so much. I played at Oregon State, went to Portland State, became All-American there and then got the chance, got the chance to play in the league for a couple of years for the New Orleans Saints. And ultimately, my career was cut short due to injury. Uh, but I came back home and I was like in this period of, of indecision, you know, like just not really knowing what to do next and sort of wondering. But I was coaching at a local high school and I was working with these younger athletes and I'm noticing, man, like, these guys have so much talent and I saw so much of myself in them, like, and they had way more talent than I, than I had. Like, I was never the biggest, fastest, strongest, but they just

• 19:54Speaker 01

  didn't have an idea of what it would actually take for them to reach their goals in their sport. And so, a lot of these athletes say they want to go to the NFL and they want to, you know, get a scholarship and things like that, but they didn't know what it took. And so, I took some of these guys up under my wing and started coaching them and mentoring them along the way. And at first, it was just really, you know, the, the physical aspects of it, like how to work out, how to train, how to eat like a professional athlete, um, and incorporating some of these, these mental aspects as well. And as I got deeper into it, I started to get a little frustrated because you can teach these guys how to, how to work out, you know, even how to eat and do all these different things, but mentally, they just didn't.

• 20:31Rich Roll?

  They don't do it.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Right. And, and they don't do it. And even if they do, they're still not doing it with the level of intention that's needed to achieve a certain goal. And it goes back to this belief thing. A lot of them just simply don't believe that it's possible. And they're doing all the right things. They're trying all these gadgets and different, you know, you You see now these guys wearing these masks and things running around. I'm like, if you don't focus on, you know, your, how to master your emotions and how to really instill that confidence to where you, you can overcome those inevitable challenges and obstacles that come along the way of reaching a goal as high as you have, right? Cause that's, that's one of the reasons, like, I, I focus on athletes that want to do big things. So if you want to reach that goal,

• 21:14Speaker 01

  there's going to be challenges, there's going to be obstacles, there's going to be injuries, there's going to be setbacks, there's going to be hurdles. But how do you deal with them? Cause that's ultimately what separates the guys at the top from everybody else. It's not that they're bigger, faster, stronger. I mean, uh, you look in any sport, any arena, you got guys who are talented and things like that, but it's, do you have the, the mental, do you have the grit? Do you have the stamina, the mental stamina, the endurance to, to, uh, to keep going. And so that's when I sort of switched focus, man. I, I went away from the physical training and I started doing what I call sports results coaching where I pretty much just focus on the mental, the, the, the habits, the systems and the mindset and the overall strategy that you need to accomplish a goal. And so that's where I'm not you was born. And, um,

• 21:56Speaker 01

  and I'm, it's, it's, it's my baby, man. I'm like super, it's like the thing that I found that I'm so passionate about. My wife will tell you, I'll stay up all night. I will talk about it all day. It, I will reach, I mean, it's just, it just lights me up, you know what I mean?

• 22:10Rich Roll?

  Cool, man. Well, I love it. I mean, there's so many things to, to, you know, embark upon or just get into with just what you just said just there, but, um, you know, I think a good place to kind of start is, is to really unpack this idea of, of, you know, of belief as a starting point, right? And, you know, you mentioned like the mask and all the gadgets and all that kind of stuff. And it's really kind of like a cart before the horse, right? Everybody wants, you know, we're in our, this hack culture. Everybody wants a shortcut and they think if they drink this certain, whatever it is, you know, post-workout drink, or, or they have the right, you know, GPS watch if you're a runner, that that's, that's going to be the thing.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:47Rich Roll?

  And, and really, and they're overlooking the biggest thing, which is, how do you feel about yourself, right? And that's, cause that's the hard work.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:54Rich Roll?

  And that, you know, like sort of turning that, that, that spotlight around and focusing it inward.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:00Rich Roll?

  Because if you don't actually believe that you're, that you deserve to be on that field or, you know, at the starting line of whatever race it is,

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 23:08Rich Roll?

  None of the other stuff matters.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:10Rich Roll?

  Right? But it's the stuff that we kind of push down and we puff our chest up and we act as if and we pretend, but. Honestly, like if you're not, if you have something inside of you that doesn't think that you deserve to be there, then ultimately you're not going to achieve your potential.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Exactly, man. And this is, and this is what you find with all the athletes that I work with and what I found at the post, at the later part of my career with the Saints. And so, in my first year there, I got, I got injured. So I actually was an undrafted free agent, and that means you're pretty much like an expendable type of guy.

• 23:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  You know, like they call them a camp body. So that means you just keep everyone fresh until it's time to cut down the roster, you know. And so, I was one of the-

• 23:51Rich Roll?

  The clock's ticking.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yep. So there was like probably about 20, 20-plus players that they'd bring in like that, and I was one of two guys who made the roster. And so, I actually started my first game against the San Francisco 49ers in Week 4 of that season. And it was incredible, it was a dream come true, man, just running out the tunnel. And I still remember when I was watching the game before, when I saw the fullback got getting hurt, got hurt, and I'm just like, oh shit, like, I'm up, you know, like-

• 24:20Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  This is my time. And so, but in that game, I got, I busted my, my shoulder up to where I had to have surgery and I was out for the whole year, right?

• 24:28Rich Roll?

  One game.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, one game, you know, and uh-

• 24:31Rich Roll?

  Just ends like that.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Yep. And so, but I honestly was still on the team, you know, rehabbed, and they kept me around, they really believed in me. And so, I started the preseason-

• 24:40Rich Roll?

  This is like 2008, right?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  2008, yep, 2008. And then the next year, I'm on the, going through all the preseason games, but, and the summer before, I worked out as hard as I've ever worked out. I stayed there in New Orleans, just training my ass off, doing all types of stuff, doing Bikram yoga, and you know, like literally I had every, I had every aspect, you know, taken care of, you know, except right here, though. Except my mind, except the mental toughness, right? And so, after that injury, like I started to doubt myself and be, get a little insecure about, you know, whether or not I was strong enough to be in the NFL, whether or not, you know, I could last, whether or not, you know, I started just entertaining all these negative ideas, but I kept doing what I needed to do, right?

• 25:20Rich Roll?

  Not to mention the fact that you know at any moment you could get cut, right?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:23Rich Roll?

  And so the fear that comes along with that.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 25:25Rich Roll?

  Especially when your whole life has led up to this point.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:28Rich Roll?

  I mean, your whole life, how many years had gone into, you know, making the NFL and you're finally there-

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 25:33Rich Roll?

  But knowing like at any moment, it could just end, and then what?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that anxiety is just, is with you the whole time. And I remember, so against the Oakland Raiders, I'm at the, at the game and it's in Oakland and all my family's in the Bay Area. So I know you went to Stanford, two of my brothers actually went to Stanford and my other went to Santa Clara. So they all live in that area now. And so they all came.

• 25:54Rich Roll?

  Play football at Stanford or you're the only football player?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  One of them played basketball there, but all of them, but yeah, they were just students there. And so I remember them coming to my game, man, and in the, in the first, in the first quarter, I want to say I'm on punt return. And I don't know if you know much about football, but my.

• 26:11Rich Roll?

  I know enough to know what that is.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Right, right. So at that particular, my role was I have to hold up the guy on the punt team. But you have to hold him in such a way that you don't get called for holding, you know, and but I made the mistake of holding on too long and we got, I got a holding call. And when I went back on the sideline, Coach Peyton just ripped me another asshole, man. Like this guy just went into me, you know, and cursing. And I felt like it was actually like kind of personal, like he did it and like, he like, I was like, damn, dude, like really hurt my feelings, you know? And after that, man, I was pretty much, I was done, man. And I was, I was so down, you know, and looking back on it, like my whole, like he literally kicked the whole spirit up out of me. And I remember halftime just being just, just so just depressed almost, but I didn't really know it at the time.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Like I was, I just felt horrible, you know? But all the while, the game's still going on and I'm still playing, you know, but I'm sitting here worrying about.

• 27:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're mentally checked out of the game.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  And I remember running, I'm on kickoff and I'm running on kickoff and I have, feel like I have no energy, you know? And it's really hot out there and we've been running the ball and I'm, I was a fullback, so blocking. But I was like one of the last guys going down on kickoff. I felt winded, tired. And being winded and tired was something that I was feeling in the previous games as well. And I'm like, why am I winded and tired? I freaking trained my ass off this whole summer. Like I should be in the best shape of my life. But ultimately I got cut eight weeks into the season. And looking back on it, man, it's like, as I like analyze it and I wonder like, what was going on there? I just mentally. It, when you're not feeling right, like when you, when you have certain, you know, when you're focusing your mind in such a way that it's, it like actually physically drains your energy and it physically

• 27:50Speaker 01

  takes away from your ability to perform.

• 27:52Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  And this is what happens with so many athletes, like, they don't, they never, they don't have a solution for this anxiety for this that's plaguing them, that they sort of, they kind of just ignore it, like I did, I just kind of ignored it and just kept training hard, right? Like, that was gonna be the solution, but it was not, man, and, and so, um...

• 28:07Rich Roll?

  Well, it's also like, it's a weird thing with the coach too, because I feel like the coach has the responsibility to get the best performance out of his players, right?

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 28:15Rich Roll?

  So, you ever think like, what would have happened if he just said, "Hey, man, don't sweat it, you know, you'll do it next time"?

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean, like?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  That definitely would have been better.

• 28:23Rich Roll?

  Like, every, every individual, every player responds differently to different ki-, you know, maybe another player would respond positively to getting reamed, you know?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:31Rich Roll?

  But for you, that didn't work.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:33Rich Roll?

  And, and, you know, he's got so many players, so he doesn't know, you know, he, he probably didn't know that, but, um, you know, maybe on a basketball team where there's fewer players, you kind of know what buttons to push with each player to get the best performance out of them.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 28:46Rich Roll?

  But a little bit, I mean, that's on you, because you gotta have the mental toughness to be able to bounce back, but it's also on him, I think, a little bit.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, no, no doubt, and no question, and this is what, what happens with a lot of young athletes, I mean, there's coaches that I look back and I'm like, these guys had no idea what they were doing, you know, and they don't, they don't invest their time in learning how to relate to players, I mean, they're geniuses on the field and they know how to do X, Y, and Z, but it's like, if you don't know how to get a guy to perform at his best, and so that's, I appreciate coaches who do take the time to learn those type of skills, but the reality is, is that there's a lot of people, a lot of parents, a lot of coaches that have no idea what the hell they're doing, and they don't know that they're hurting these athletes, but guess what? That isn't, that hasn't changed the fact that this is reality.

• 29:28Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  So unless, a- and, and I'm not in the business of, you know, teaching parents how to do that, I'm sure there's somebody else out there who that's their focus, I'm in the business of teaching athletes, how do you get yourself to perform regardless of that? How, how do you actually use that to your advantage? How do you get yourself to take criticism even though they, they're, you know, they're freaking cursing you out, you know, and you're, and you're a 10th grader, you know? And you're crying, I, I actually witnessed this when I was coaching the JV team at, at the high school, I was telling you about. These guys are like cursing out ninth and 10th graders and these guys are crying like, you know, young, young men crying and saying they don't want to play football anymore. And they're literally stealing their passion from them, right?

• 30:09Speaker 01

  But I don't, like I said, that's my, what I focus on is how do you, how do you get these guys to, to get them to hold on to the dream even tighter in a situation like that? How do you deal with the parent who's just overbearing and you know, criticizes you too much and things? And there are times where I do, I do come in and I do talk to the parents, right?

• 30:27Rich Roll?

  That's a big problem.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  It is, it is, man. And there's a, I can't remember the guy, but he has a, he has a movement where he's dealing with that, like changing the culture of, of sports and stuff, but, and I really respect what he's doing.

• 30:39Rich Roll?

  But you, but as a young athlete, you can't control that environment. You, you're, you got the coach you got, you got the parents you got, so it, it becomes about trying to develop strategies around that mentally to like deal with that, right?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's always, I tell my athletes, the only two things you gotta think about is what you want and how to get it. So if what you want is to dominate your sport, if what you want is to reach a particular goal, then you gotta be able to see, look at what's happening right now. What's the reality of what's going on? And how are you going to accomplish your goal? Not why can't I do it or what's holding me back. Identify what's holding you back, but let's come up, like you said, with a strategy for how we overcome that. And a lot of it is, man, they, they feel like there's no control and that's what a lot of athletes have been trained to think like that. There's so much that they can't control. And this is true, but at the end of the day, there's so much that you can control. And when you actually take the time to focus on that, you have more work than you ever,

• 31:33Speaker 01

  like you'll have so much work to do, like let's get to work on the things we can control. And that's why I always tell athletes, they start telling me all these.

• 31:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the blame game or being a victim. Like, well, it's the coach's fault and all that kind of stuff, which doesn't, it's not helping you.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  I'm like, I don't care. Like, I don't, I don't know the, the, the culture of your school, or, you know, what's wrong with your coach. But, and that's none of my business. What, what my business is, is what, what are you thinking about every day? How do you prepare yourself? How do you manage your emotional states? How, what, do you have a strategy for how you attack goals? What do you do every day? What are your habits? And these are the things that, when you spend your time focusing on that, like I said, you have your hands full right there. So you don't, we don't even have to get to that stuff, you know, so, yeah.

• 32:14Rich Roll?

  So how does that, how does it work when an athlete comes to you? Like, what's the first, you know, what's the process of, of kind of getting into it with an athlete?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Right. So, the first thing that I do when I meet, when I meet with athletes, and these usually tend to be athletes, the type of athletes that I attract are serious athletes, like the ones who really have

• 32:31Rich Roll?

  Do you work like one-on-one, or is this like on the internet, or how does it, you work in person?

• 32:35Speaker 01

  So I have some clients that I work with in person, obviously, if you're in my area. But I work with athletes now all over the world through my, through an online program. So it's pretty much just coaching through Skype or telephone, you know, and so we meet like, at the most, four times a month. And the first thing that we do with them, that I do with them, is identify what it is that they want, right? And so, I never get that the first time I ask. And so I've gotten really good at getting to the root of what they really want. And so...

• 33:02Rich Roll?

  So, so when you say, what do you want, like the typical, oh, I wanna, you know, I wanna be, you know, All-American, or something like that, right?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Right. Like, but a lot of them don't even feel comfortable saying that. A lot of them start um and an ah, and, uh, and you can tell it makes them uncomfortable to say what their goal is, you know, and, um, I'll just give an example. Um, there's an athlete that, I'm actually gonna visit him today. He's down in San Bernardino. And, but, when I first met him, his, his goal was to play, uh, overseas, basketball. And this guy's tall, like this guy's built, like, I mean, he's probably like 6'5", um, and I had never, never even seen him play basketball before, but I knew...

• 33:41Rich Roll?

  He's a high school athlete?

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yes. This was his first year. And it was funny because with the way he said it, and I'm looking, I'm like, I've never heard anyone have their, like, their, their ultimate goal be to play overseas. Now, I know there's a lot of great opportunities overseas, you know, and maybe his goal is to play overseas. But when he said it, I knew that wasn't, that's not what you want.

• 33:59Rich Roll?

  Right, he's basically saying like, I don't think I'm good enough to play in the NBA.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:03Rich Roll?

  The highest that I can shoot for is this. So there's something already baked inside of him.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:08Rich Roll?

  Telling him that he's not talented enough, or whatever it is, right?

• 34:11Speaker 01

  And usually this comes from external, external outside forces like coaches, parents, people who think they're doing you a favor by telling you, oh, I don't, no, I don't think you, you should probably focus on doing that. I had people tell me that, you know, like, I wouldn't have never made it to the NFL.

• 34:25Rich Roll?

  Cause you were, you were a walk-on, right?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:27Rich Roll?

  Originally at Oregon, at Oregon State?

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yep, I was a walk-on at Oregon State and they didn't even have a position for me when I got there. Like, they didn't even run fullback plays, like, they didn't even run that. And so, I never, I was naive enough, I say this, I was naive enough, which worked in my favor to, like, I just ignored what people said, like, I didn't care. Like, I'm like, you don't have anything to do with what I'm trying to do, so. And that's what, another thing I tell athletes, like, I actually encourage athletes sometimes not even to listen to their parents. Like, you know what you want. You don't have to get permission from your mom or your dad or your brother or your coach. If that is what you want, then my goal is to help you get what you want. You know, if there's, if you've got some real reasons for going after what you're trying to get and you say you really want it, then that's what I'm focused on. Like, I don't, I don't, you don't need to listen to anyone else, you know?

• 35:14Speaker 01

  But, so with this particular athlete, man, like, he told me he wanted to play overseas and I'm like, I'm like, you don't want to play overseas, like, who, who says they want to play overseas? Like, you don't, like, you don't get, it's not like you get paid a lot over there, you're away from your family. You know, you might get stuck in Russia or something, but if that, if that's actually what you want, then tell me why you want that. You know, and so, he started to feel a little uncomfortable, you know, but we, as I dug deeper, this guy wants to play in the NBA. Like, and I'm looking, I'm like, what about you says that you can't play in the NBA? You tell me one thing, what, what about you, what do you know about yourself that says you can't do that? You see what I'm saying? I mean, I just watched this little video of Steph Curry, like, and Steph Curry just won, just won NBA championship, MVP.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  What about this guy says MVP, nothing about him when he was in college at Davidson, who no one knew what the hell college that was, said, yo, this guy's gonna be the MVP and he's gonna win for the Golden State Warriors. I don't even know if they've ever won a championship before. But that was what his goal was. And he reached his goal. So how did that happen? And in this, this particular video, he's reading the draft profile that people were saying about him. They said, he's never gonna be a, a point guard in the NBA. Uh, he's a good shooter, that's about it, you know, he's, he's too small, he's not strong enough, etc. And it was incredibly inspiring video, but I'm like, I'm asking this kid, what about it? Like, who told you that you can't do that? You know, and he's kind of surprised because you can tell that no one's really ever said that to him before.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  You know, and no one's ever challenged him in that way because he had it so convinced in his mind that he can play only overseas.

• 36:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  And that's how good he was. So anyway, over the course of this four day event, I had an event called Flip the Switch. And that's one of the other things I do is, is live events with athletes. Um, and we got him to really commit to his real goals, what he really wanted, what this guy wants to play in the NBA. And that's now his goal, you know, and so he's finding that he has more energy, he has more drive. He's taking more action towards his goals because, I mean, just keep it real. If I like for my, with my kids, if I tell them, I'll give you five dollars to do this, or I'll give you a thousand dollars. Which one are you going to be more excited for? Which one are you going to work harder for? Of course, the higher goal. So it's really important, I'm teaching them how to set high goals and really stay true to who they are.

• 37:27Rich Roll?

  So how do you make that transition though? Because if somebody's hardwired, uh, you know, with a certain belief of who they are, the idea of like untangling that web and, and, and, you know, sort of rebooting their system to believe otherwise. I mean, you know, that's, that's the work of a shrinker therapist. You know, that's years of analysis.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:44Rich Roll?

  That's not an easy gig. I mean, that's obviously the heavy lifting and that's, if you can get that right, then everything else becomes easy because it falls into place because you have vision then. Um, but getting somebody to, you know, expand their vision and actually, you know, feel it in their bones as opposed to talking themselves into it when they don't actually believe it. Um, you know, what is the process of getting an athlete to that place?

• 38:06Speaker 01

  And that's a great, and that's a great question because then it becomes a question of how you change the belief. And so one of the main things, and this is what my focus has been. So instead of reading all the, you know, all the, um, the books about how to teach people how to squat and do X, Y, Z. I know, and learning from Tony Robbins, I'm, I'm reading books on human behavior and how to get people to change what they think about themselves and how to change your, your self-identity. And there's a lot of different ways to do it, but at the end of the day. People do things either to avoid pain or or get pleasure, right? And so even just the idea of first coming up with a vision that's greater than what they had. That's a new, that's a new, that's something new that now.

• 38:43Rich Roll?

  That's uncomfortable.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, but it's something that drives them and something that gets them thinking like maybe there can be more. But also it's this idea of using pain to motivate you. And so a lot of them are associating pain with going after a goal and not getting it. So for example, this kid like he'll say for me to try to go make it to the NBA and not make it, right? Will be a lot of pain for me, so I might just, I might as well just.

• 39:07Rich Roll?

  Right, it's too scary, because if you actually really invest yourself completely in that and you don't make it. That would be devastating, right? And that scares people from even trying.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 39:16Rich Roll?

  Because it's easier to say, well, yeah, I didn't really try, you know, I didn't really try, so you didn't really risk anything.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. But I get them to see it a little differently. So instead of looking at it like that, what if you, I I paint the picture of what it's gonna look like over the course of your life. Over the next ten years, the next five years, you know, the the next year. If you continue to mute what it is that you really want and not do the things that you know that you that you really want, right? And so it's in switch, like basically associating pain to different things. Because at the end of the day, like you have a choice, like you can, you can choose to not go after these goals that you know you really want. And and limit yourself and go after these smaller goals. But if that becomes a habit of yours, that's something you do continuously over the the course of your life. That's gonna equal a lot of pain for you and I have to get, I have to do a good job of getting them to see that.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  And then in the meantime, it's setting up a system for how do you consistently reinforce new beliefs, right? And so one of the ways is just managing your emotional states. And so this is what I've become a student of, this is how I, you know, came upon Tony Robbins work. I follow a lot of different people when it comes to this and really being able to manage your emotional state. And so I actually have like a, I'm working on it right now, it's called an emotional playbook. Where it's basically you keep track of all the emotions that you feel throughout the day. And you basically identify what's your recipe, how do you get into these emotions? And then identifying, you know, what actions do you usually take when you're feeling this way? You know, and so we all have these, you know, and I've actually, when I first started doing this myself, what I found was crazy. I had a list, so I I always say there's only two types of emotions, ones that help you and ones that hurt you, right? And so.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  On one side, the negative ones, I had about, I mean, it was a long list. And then on the right side, I had about like five or six. You know, and I'm a pretty positive guy. You ask anyone who knows me, I'm not, I'm not a guy who's depressed all the time. But these negative emotions, and they don't show, they don't always show up in like the form of like pure depression. I'm talking about mildly frustrated, you know, uh, being annoyed, feeling a, just a little, yeah. Uh, feeling a little bit doubtful, the feeling of being unsure. These are all emotions that plague everyone. And if you don't come up with a way of how you get yourself to a new, more empowering emotion. Because I always like what beliefs, how you believe, what you believe about yourself leads to how you feel.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Your emotions always determine the quality or quantity of action that you take, whether or not you do it or not. And then of course, actions is what's responsible for our results. And so if you want to change your results, you have to be able to have a recipe, a playbook for how do you change your emotions? And this is what I work really heavily with athletes on and it's, it's actually really fun to, because a lot of athletes you see, that I meet. You can just tell they're used to being in a certain emotional state, you know? And so one of the things that, um, I grew up, I started with four boys, I was always the shy one. That's what they told me. I was the shy one.

• 42:05Rich Roll?

  That's hard to believe.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Hey, so I, I was the shy one and I was quiet, you know, and I really believed this about myself. I was quiet and, you know, I was awkward around girls and things, had only a few friends and things like that. And as I'm, you know, growing up, grown up now and, and you know, it's actually since I've been out the league and I started working with these athletes. And what I've learned through them about myself is that like, yo, I'm not quiet, man. I'm not shy. I'm not shy. That's not who I am. The only reason why I was shy or quiet is because I was feeling certain ways, right? And so if I can change how I feel, like I actually can get myself to do it.

• 42:40Rich Roll?

  Like you felt like you didn't deserve to have a voice or something.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. Just quiet. And I felt like, yeah, exactly. Like I felt like no one really cared what I said or, you know, it wasn't worth hearing. Um, I felt like. Being in front of people, like being judged by people was something that scared me a lot. That's why anxiety that you get from being in front of large crowds. And now I'm, you know, talking to, to thousands, millions of people through different, different avenues. Stretching myself in such a way where actually like I enjoy it, you know, and so I'm like, this is whatever you thought about yourself is not real. You know, like, and that's one of the things I, I, I take, it's, it's really fun to get an athlete to see, to get to access a different side of them that they didn't even know was there.

• 43:24Rich Roll?

  I feel like a lot of people, I mean, and everything you're saying is applicable far beyond, you know, the football field.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 43:30Rich Roll?

  These are things that are, these are life, you know, tools for whatever you're doing, whether you're a businessman or a parent or a teacher.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:37Rich Roll?

  Firefighter, you know, like, these are, these are, uh, you know, lessons and resources to, you know, unlock, uh, you know, to, to coin the theme of the podcast. You know, the more authentic version of yourself that is resting, you know, below the surface.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 43:52Rich Roll?

  You gotta find a way to tap into it. But I feel like a lot of people, like you had, in the, in the context of the example of the athlete that you just mentioned, who, who said initially that he wanted to play basketball overseas, um, and then you were able to identify that, no, he really wants to play in the NBA. I feel like a lot of people, they're not even in touch with themselves enough to even know what it is that they want.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:13Rich Roll?

  You know, maybe with a high school athlete who's playing a sport who's excelling, like they're, they have a more crystallized vision of where they want to take that. But I think in general, you know, athletes, non-athletes are kind of more, um, they're, they're, they're playing defense in life and they're being reactive to their circumstances around them rather than sort of proactively, you know, taking the steps to, you know, to, to pursue and achieve a goal or to create the vision necessary to then, you know, construct a roadmap that's going to get them where they want to go in their life. So, do you ever have athletes where you don't even know what, they, they don't even know what they want and you have to like construct that for them?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 44:51Rich Roll?

  In partnership with them or?

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That's, I mean, that honestly, I'd say about 50 to 60% of the time, that's what, what is usually happening, you know? And so that's where. My skill comes in, that's where I have to excel. And so, just having rapport with an athlete. And so, I believe in like, the athletes that I work with, like, they are not my quote-unquote clients, or, like, these are a part of my, I look at a lot of them like they're my little brothers and sisters. You know what I mean? And so, I want to develop like a friendship with them to where they feel comfortable telling me what it is that they want. Because a lot of times, it's not that they don't know, it's like, you really know? Because everyone thinks about things when they go to sleep at night. You know, everyone has these fantasies. Everyone has a, pretty much, like, if I say, I always say, if I put a gun to your head and told you, and said, what do you want? What would you say?

• 45:37Speaker 01

  You know? Or if you did know what you want, what would you want? You know, like, let's imagine that you did know. What would you want? And then they go, well, I guess it would be cool to do, okay. It would be cool to is code for, that's what I really want. You know, and so, it's definitely a little probing involved, you know? And I have to get good with the type of questions that I ask and, and how I frame it for each athlete. Because that's another thing that I've, I've learned, you know, through experiences, that not every athlete responds to the same type of things. So, um, this was something that was kind of frustrating in the beginning of my career. Um, just working with athletes and stuff. But it's like, you know, instead of getting frustrated, I need to step my game up. So, instead of only being able to reach one type of athlete,

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I need to, you know, expand my, you know, arsenal of skills and my ability to, to develop rapport with these athletes to where, you know, I can say, okay, this is the type of athlete that doesn't really respond well to consequences and things. They're more driven by, you know, a higher vision and something that's exciting to them. Some athletes, like, like, you, you tell them the consequences, they're like, then they, then they start, you know, then they start to get that, that fire. But, it's a balance, man. And so, this is, it definitely comes with some probing, you know?

• 46:44Rich Roll?

  Right. So, so if you can lock in on, on that goal or that vision, right? It's like putting a key in a lock and suddenly it turns. And then you can kind of create the roadmap to get that athlete from wherever they are to, you know, on a trajectory towards their goal. But what are, what are, you know, what is that road, what does that road look like? In terms of the practical, day in, day out, kind of, tools and work that, that goes into, um, the coaching that you do with the athletes?

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Right. So, obviously, it depends on- Each athlete and what their sport is, but I'll just give you sort of an outline of some of the habits and systems that we implement. And so first off, we got it, they have to learn how to set goals. So how to, how to be able to set shorter term and longer term goals and identifying how to manage their time. And so I have a system called the blueprint where it's a system for breaking down your goals from a three month all the way to a one month and then on a day to day basis. So every day, these guys are journaling and evaluating themselves morning and night. And so they're identifying what are the top actions that they need to take on a daily basis. And then at nighttime, they're identifying, did I do them? And if I didn't, why not? What do I need to do in order to be more aggressive in reaching towards my goals the next day, et cetera? And then it's that habit.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  So there's a system called target practice, which I would like to share, share with the audience as well. And I've, I've created a little PDF for them and things like that. But it's a very, uh, simple, uh, routine where it's like identifying what are the four to five things that, that if you did every day, would make a huge difference long-term. So let's take the example of a, I'll give you example of a younger athlete. Like these guys, a lot of them say they want to reach a higher level goal, but they can't even do like 10 pushups, right? So like, wouldn't it be nice if you could, you know, if you were flexible enough to touch your toes? Wouldn't it be nice if you actually could hold your own in the weight room and do a pull-up? You know, and so identifying what are these, the, the simple things that you gotta do every day? That are gonna make a bigger difference long-term?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  And that, that, that's different for every athlete, but every athlete, I don't care who it is, has a handful of things that they need to do every single day. Like if you, you talk to the high level guys, they're shooting shots every day. So this, this guy who, uh, who plays ball in San Bernardino, he's shooting a thousand shots a day. You know, without fail, this is what you, this is what, uh, forget everything else. What are you doing every day? And so it's like looking at and analyzing each day as it relates to these higher goals. And, and the blueprint is a system I have for that. And also a, a workout record journal where keeping track of everything that you do. Keeping track of all the reps and sets that you do. Um, noticing trends, you know, keeping track of your emotions as well. I'm working on what I call the emotional playbook right now, which is what I told you about. Keeping track of all the emotions, having a rest.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  For how you get in, in and out of emotions. It's a system I call primetime, which is like a, a routine that you do in order to get yourself to feel the confidence that you need to feel before workouts, before training, before games, etc. Meditating, visualizing, like I create custom visualization tracks for, for the athletes that I work with so they can use that on a daily basis. Teaching them how to be able to relax their body and actually systematically visualize. Something I never learned, that I learned after I played ball, that, um, just me sitting here in front of you right now is, was a part of my vision, right? And so.

• 49:55Rich Roll?

  Well, you're here, man.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  I'm here, and so it's, it's incredible the power of visualization, but I never learned it. I never learned how to do it, you know, and so this is what I'm teaching these athletes how to do. And so that should give you like sort of an idea of the things that we do on a daily basis, you know?

• 50:09Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, and I, I think a big part of it that gets overlooked in this equation is just putting in the work, man.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:16Rich Roll?

  You gotta actually do it, you know? There's so many self-help books out there and a lot of them are great and, you know, the best ones will have practical tools for you to then use. And I feel like people read them and maybe they're momentarily inspired, but then they don't actually avail themselves of actually doing the work or putting into motion, you know? Actually implementing those tools.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:36Rich Roll?

  Right, and so, I mean, do you find with like, you know, the, the kids that you're working with, high school kids, I mean, these are millennials, right? Like their faces are probably, you know, in front of screens all day. It's a different, you know, I'm a lot older than you, but like, it's a different age, man. And there's, there's a lot of great things, I think, about the millennial generation, but, but some of the stereotypes are, are true. There's like a sort of a level of entitlement in the sense that like, yeah, you know, I can just, I can just be me, man. The world's gonna reward you for that, you know what I mean? And, and that's informed by, you know, advertising and, you know, all these kind of, all the messaging that's kind of out there, uh, that, that is, that is sort of informing these kids that like, hey, man, the way you're doing it is great, like you don't need to learn from anybody because

• 51:20Rich Roll?

  you're you and all that kind of stuff, right? So, so a lot of, I would imagine you're, you gotta do some counter-programming to go like, no, man, are you gonna be the first guy in the gym in the morning and the last guy to leave? You know, you really want to achieve your goal. Like, there's no hack around that.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 51:36Rich Roll?

  You gotta show up.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. And that's a, that's a huge part. And so, again, that's where I, I have to do my job of being able to relate to a younger athlete. And so, that means I can't always give them Michael Jordan references, you know? Like, I have to be able to talk to, relate to them about athletes that inspire them now. And so, just showing them what it actually looks like to reach a goal. Like, so, the very fact that I did what they're, most of them are trying to do, uh, gives me an edge in being able to relate to them. So, when they break down, and so, there's another thing.

• 52:06Rich Roll?

  But you're more accessible than, than, than a Michael Jordan.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 52:09Rich Roll?

  Because you actually had some struggles in it.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:11Rich Roll?

  It didn't go exactly. I mean, he's like, if you could revision that, you know, you'd probably still be playing, right?

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  So, you had, you know, you, you basically can relate in a very human way, what went wrong for you, and how you would have done things differently.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:24Rich Roll?

  And I think that allows those kids to kind of emotionally tap into you and connect with you in probably a more real way.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely, man. And, and even just, one of the things I do also, like, when I first meet with them, is have them tell me, what is it that you do on a day to day? Like, give me the average week. And so, that's make them tell me everything, right?

• 52:39Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  And to look at what they actually do, and be able to describe to them in detail what it's actually going to look like. In a way that doesn't scare them away, but, you know, obviously, it's not like, it's, it's not gonna be easy. But in a way that actually is enticing, and they start to fall in love with the process of being great, you know? Because it is a process, and it's a never-ending process. And one of the things that...

• 53:03Rich Roll?

  And you gotta love the process, because it's too much work.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:06Rich Roll?

  If you don't, if you don't love it, you know, day in and day out, and that doesn't mean you always love it, or you love waking up at 5:00 in the morning or anything like that. But overall, you gotta really be able to embrace it, because it's a long road.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:16Rich Roll?

  No matter what your goal is.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Right. And that's why these, uh, one of the things that they do in their blueprint on a daily basis is keep track of wins. And so, I tell them, like, you gotta be ruthless about, like, you have to collect wins, small wins, big wins. I don't care what they are, even if it's like, you woke up this morning without pressing snooze, you gotta collect that, man. Because it becomes so easy and so tempting to get down on yourself, you know? And this is, this is something that happens with me personally. In my own life today and that I see a lot with younger athletes. These guys are, I mean like a particular, a football player that I work with, man, this guy is like a beast, you know, and he's like a man amongst boys out there and he's got so much talent.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  But he's so down on himself all the time, like every time I talk to him is like it's something's not going right and man, I got, no, I just gotta get better. I'm like, yeah, you gotta get better, you know, and you will get better. But look at how far you've come, like, why can't we have a balance there, like, uh, keeping track of all the things that are going well so as to lift yourself up and feel good about yourself, knowing that you, you love who you are as an athlete and where you are today. But also have this goal that you're reaching after and get, and, and, and still be relentless about, you know, going after on daily basis. And this is a hard, this is a hard balance to find, you know, I think when you find that balance, you're pretty much like living, man, like.

• 54:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think, uh, that's a very common thing with athletes, I think, and, you know, I've talked about this before, but it's about learning how to train where you're at, not where you think you should be or where you wanna be. Because if you're, if you have a goal of being like, you know, at a certain level and you're not there yet, and you show up for practice or your training session and, and you're not performing at the level of, you know, where you wanna be. Then you get down on yourself, right? But it's like, you gotta accept where you're at right now.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:00Rich Roll?

  Because you're not gonna get to that place you wanna get to until you can kind of embrace and just accept where you're at. You know, as a, as a basis point for then building upon that and getting better, you know, so. Cause then you're just gonna be down on yourself all the time.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:13Rich Roll?

  And you're actually moving yourself away from your goal.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that's, it's, it's hard to hear, man. That's, that's the type of thing that, that made me, and still sometimes makes me frustrated here, like, ah, like I just want this goal so bad, like, can I just like, but not, it's, it's about, once you get the goal, like if you got a championship, like let's take a, um, uh, NFL athlete, right? If you gave them a Super Bowl championship. In the beginning of the season, that would be virtually useless to them. There's a reason why at the end of the season, you see them like grown men shedding tears, you know, like falling to the ground on their knees when they have this trophy. It's not the trophy, it's what they had to go through in order to get that trophy. They're thinking about week six, you know, when they lost to that team they shouldn't have lost to and how frustrated they were.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  They're thinking about that injury that's been plaguing them all season and they had to push themselves and get in the weight room every single day and go ice tub, you know, for 30 minutes after practice, you know, and all that time away from their family and all the sacrifices.

• 56:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's the journey that gives it meaning. Otherwise, it's meaningless, right?

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 56:16Rich Roll?

  So, when you were, you know, look, when you were playing in the NFL and you're playing with guys like Drew Brees, I mean, what are the, you know, what did you observe? Like, what are the consistent, you know, habits and kind of practices of, you know, the best guys out there that you were able to kind of notice were consistent across the board?

• 56:35Speaker 01

  That's a great question. And like, so first, one of the illusions that I had when I first got to the NFL is that because all these guys are in the NFL, I'm like certain that they're all just the hardest workers, they're just first ones in, last ones out. It's not the case at all, man. Like, not the case at all. And so, you'll see guys with really big time talent that were drafted high and do not work, skip workouts, you know, will go in there and just sort of BS and hang around and, you know, eat terrible. I mean, there's a particular athlete, I won't say his name, that, you know, high-profile guy, and he, I mean, stacks of pancakes and bacon and just eating horribly.

• 57:09Rich Roll?

  I had John Sally on the show and he was telling, he was telling me similar stories about his time in the NBA, and then David Carter also, who's played on a couple of teams in the NFL. Same deal. These guys are the, are the elite of the elite, right? And it's like, I forget exactly how John Sally put it, but it's like, you're putting like dirt in your Lamborghini, man. You're a pro athlete, you can't, you are at a level where it's not okay to eat like everyone else.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Right, exactly, man. And these are, I, I thought, like, of course, this, you know, when I get to this next level, these guys doing, but take a guy like Drew Brees, always the first one there. And like, literally, his car is the first one there. He's watching film before we watch film, you know? Always the last one to leave, you know? The guy has his own, his diet and, and the way that he eats is very meticulous. He has his meals prepared and things like that. I, I always remember this vividly when I was a rookie free agent and all the rookies were there working out. And the guys, all the older guys and veterans didn't have to be there. Drew Brees would show up in the mornings with us, working out with us. These guys who are free agents, who he knew most, 99% of us weren't gonna be there. Sticking around, yeah. But he's there motivating us, throwing us balls, you know, running with us, working out with us.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  And, uh, just a leader in every sense of the word. Um, another thing, after practice, like when we have long two-a-days and everyone is eager to get off the field and go relax for that one to two hours before we have another practice. He's still on the field and he's in the weight room doing those exercises that every, that is, that are so annoying. Like all these little rehab exercises. I mean, the guy was just committed and so engaged at every step of the process, right? So on a week-to-week basis, there's a, there's a sort of flow to an NFL week. And I was just so inspired by his commitment and his energy levels at every step. So it would make sense if, you know, on Tuesdays, like, man, tired, you know? Right. You know, but always high energy, always in the, um, in the, uh, the, uh,

• 59:07Speaker 01

  what we, uh, rehab room, right? Like always in a, in a training room with high energy, always positive and, uh, but he, he commanded, he could, he didn't really have a problem getting on guys, you know? And, and, but, and I felt like he had a really good balance of commanding respect. And Sean Payton was the same way. And obviously he had that time where he cursed me out, but I mean, the guy, the guy was really, really engaged with his, with his players and earned the respect to where he didn't really have to do that all the time, you know? And, uh, guys just respected him and that's how it was with Drew Brees. And there, there are other, other guys around at the same time. Jonathan Vilma was another one, um, I remember Reggie Bush, man, this guy would, you know, during two-a-days, he'd be squatting 500 plus in between practices, you know?

• 59:50Speaker 01

  And, uh, I have athletes that I work with now and they're like, yo, uh, you know, I worked hard in the season. Like I'm just, you know, trying to maintain, I'm like, no, like you need to continue to lift heavy during the season. It's hard to do that. Like I remember Sunday, or Sunday, we have games, Monday, Mondays after games were like the hardest workouts, you know? And I'm like, okay, this is why these guys are in such great shape and can endure the, the NFL seasons. Right, right, right.

• 1:00:22Rich Roll?

  What are some of the other misconceptions about what, you know, life in the NFL is like? Because, you know, as Americans, we project like this idea of what it's like, like watching ballers on HBO and you just think like it's all partying and like, you know, champagne.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:38Rich Roll?

  And then, you know, the excitement of the games, but what is like a typical day actually like?

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Right, so I think one misconception they have is how much money you make. And so, there's a certain class of guy who's making a lot of money, right? Like, guys are getting millions, but when you, when you get out of those bigger contracts and you got these guys that are just journeyman and which are like, I want to say about 80% of each roster is guys that have just been around and just, you know, solid, you know, role players, there's no security. And this is the NFL, I can't speak for all the other leagues, but it's, you're not, it's, number one, it's expensive to be a pro athlete, at least, like, it's expensive.

• 1:01:19Rich Roll?

  In what, in what way?

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  So, you're traveling, like, just, I look back at my lifestyle at that particular time, traveling back and forth all the time, you know, living in different places, just no real steadiness, like, there's always just, it just seems like money just goes really, and then, of course, you got people asking for money and stuff and borrowing money.

• 1:01:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, because, well, because overnight, literally, you go from, you know, basically having no money to having the more money than, even if you're at the lowest level, it's more money than you've ever had, you know, in your wildest dreams, right?

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:51Rich Roll?

  And so, there's the temptation there to just start, you know, throwing it around.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:01:55Rich Roll?

  Without thinking about the fact that you can get cut next week and it's all over.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Exactly, and I had sort of like the reverse problem, like, I actually was, I had so much anxiety, especially in my second year of being let go, that like, I was holding on to my money and I was not investing it when I probably should have and things like that, which ended up coming back to bite me, but, there's a, I think there's, there's that lifestyle that people have in terms of like the party lifestyle, that's definitely there, and you can, you can make of it whatever you want, pretty much, like, if you want to find that stuff, it's pretty easy, you know, and if you want to keep to yourself, like, there are smaller group of guys who, who are there and, you know, got it going on in terms of staying focused, and there's family guys, there's pretty much just like a, a whole just myriad of... Personality.

• 1:02:39Rich Roll?

  Right, every kind of guy.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  And it's, it's really unique, you know, and uh, I was only on the Saints, so I can't speak for a bunch of other teams, but we had a good chemistry there, you know, but I can definitely see how, you know, the wrong mixture of guys, man, can make for a very troublesome locker room, you know?

• 1:02:55Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Cause I mean, we're talking about big egos, man, and just all different type of cultural backgrounds and religious backgrounds and political backgrounds.

• 1:03:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah.

• 1:03:04Rich Roll?

  And everybody kind of, you know, competitive for their job too, right?

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:09Rich Roll?

  Is it like, I mean, is there a team unity where there's a, like a collective kind of, you know, esprit de corps? Or is it kind of like, hey man, this is my job, like don't get too close, right?

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:20Rich Roll?

  Kind of a zero sum game.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:21Rich Roll?

  Attitude?

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  There definitely is that. And so when I, when I was with the Saints, they, that was, the second year, they, they won the Super Bowl that year.

• 1:03:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  And that was a very, very unique collection of guys. But even then, I mean, I remember when I was a rookie free agent and I was in camp, that fullback that was in front of me, he was probably like a, you know, eight year guy or something like that. Uh, he didn't like me at all. He didn't make it easy for me at all.

• 1:03:45Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  You know, like he wasn't.

• 1:03:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're a threat to his job.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, he wasn't helping me out. He wasn't, you know, trying to take me under his wing. But then you got guys like Deuce McAllister, who was a running back there when I was, uh, when I was there and beloved, beloved guy in, in New Orleans. Um, and he was, he was awesome, man. Like he would, he was showing us everything, you know, and, and, and really easygoing guy and would help us out in pretty much any way. And this was interesting for a guy who, you know, it seems like it would be the opposite, you know?

• 1:04:14Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  You know, but he was, he was a cool guy. So like I said, it's really just like a, a unique collection of guys, man. And you, you have to be really careful about, um, who you, you're with because it's so easy. As I, I was, I came from a really strong family, you know, a pretty strong identity, you know? Um, but it's really easy to get influenced by that culture.

• 1:04:36Rich Roll?

  Pulled in the wrong direction. Suddenly, you know, you got an entourage of people.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:04:41Rich Roll?

  Giving them all money and like.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Peer pressure, man. It's like, it's, it's real, man. And so I remember walking.

• 1:04:46Rich Roll?

  What is it, the percentage, I don't know what the percentage is offhand, but I know it's insanely high of, of former NFL players that, that filed bankrupts.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:54Rich Roll?

  Or broke and, you know, just lose all their money and, you know, it's, it's like a crazy epidemic.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  And it's, and one of the reasons why is because of how, so when I got there, it's like, I came from college, you know, barely have any money. And I remember I rented a car, right? And I would rent a car and they would give me like Dodge Chargers, which were cool, right? But then, one time I went back, they didn't have any Dodge Chargers and they only had minivans. You know, so I got a minivan and I didn't think anything of it, I was cool, right? And so I got in, I rolled in and everyone was like, just roasting me, dude, like, they were making fun of me so bad and I didn't, and I was actually like, starting to feel a little like awkward about it. And I didn't, that's not something I would think I would be insecure about, you know? And this pressure to like, live up to a certain standard because everyone thinks that you should be that standard.

• 1:05:40Rich Roll?

  Right, like you gotta, you gotta like fly your flag, like you're in the NFL, like so that what comes, there's all sorts of crazy baggage that comes with that, about how you're supposed to live.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Yup, and I'm gonna share with you another story, man, it was crazy, like, I've always been a watch guy, I really like watches and so I was making a lot of money, you know, first year in NFL and I'm like, man, I wanna get a watch, I wanna get a nice watch, like diamonds, all of that, right? And so, and so, there's, there's a guy on the team, he's a lineman and he had a good connection with, with one of the jewelers. And so I call him up and, you know, he's this fast-talking Arabian guy, he's like, yeah, man, I'll get you whatever you need. And I, I like, didn't even know where to start and how much things would cost and they actually weren't as expensive as I thought, like they were, you know, I wasn't getting the high-end ones, like two thousand to three thousand dollar watches, right? With some diamonds in it and stuff. And so he decides to send me, you know, six watches, like, like, he said, I'm gonna send you a bunch of watches

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  and you could try them out, you know, and send them back when you, when you, when you're done and let me know which one you like. So I'm like, hell excited and I get all the watches and they're in this like, this nice little glass case. And I'm just like, open it up and it's just diamonds everywhere, I'm just like, this is so cool, you know what I mean? So, I'm like sampling these watches and one day, I remember it was, it was a day that it was snowing in New Orleans, which is extremely rare. But like, I, I went out to breakfast one morning and I came back and the apartment I was staying at, there was, um, The I I walked in and my door just opened, you know? And I'm looking and I look and my TV's gone, right? And so I'm thinking, did I forget to pay my rental bill or something? Like, did they just come and take my TV? That's my first thought. And so my TV is gone.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  I walk in the other bedroom and my other TV is gone. And then I look underneath the uh, the nightstand and all the watches are gone, dude. All six of these watches. And um, I remember they took everything. They took some shoes, jeans and just, so I got robbed, you know what I mean? And um, it was like the worst feeling ever. So I had to pay, I had to pay for all those watches, dude. Like, I had to pay for six watches. And I didn't even get a watch. I had to pay for all six of those watches. So it was funny just because that's, like, I, I, I, I had always wanted watches and I can't say I was, you know, fell all the way into that keep up with the Joneses. But I, I was really excited to get them diamond watches, man, you know, and uh.

• 1:07:57Rich Roll?

  Well, it's, that's kind of an interesting thing. Like, here, maybe there's a lesson in there. You know, like, God's like, yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:08:03Rich Roll?

  I don't think you should be going down that road. You know what I mean? I'm gonna snatch this away from you before this gets too crazy.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Exactly, cuz that's, there's a good chance I might have started getting chains and big ass earrings and stuff. But yeah, that was crazy, man.

• 1:08:16Rich Roll?

  Uh huh. So, so what is that like when, you know, your whole life is kind of hyper focused on, on, you know, being this guy in the NFL and then all of a sudden, it's over?

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Oh, man, it's uh, it's humbling, man, and it's tough. And so, I've always played, I played football since I was like seventh grade. But again, I never felt like I was one of those guys, football was my life. You know, like, I really loved football. But when it was taken from me, it was, I was one of those guys. And I realized how much of my identity football was, you know, uh.

• 1:08:48Rich Roll?

  Right, and it wasn't taken, it wasn't taken from you on your terms. It wasn't your decision, like, okay, I'm done, I'm ready to retire. It was pulled out from underneath you, basically.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And it was, it was like, uh, I was depressed, you know, like legit. And I didn't know it at the time, I'm depressed, so I don't know what exactly it means. But I was just extremely down.

• 1:09:07Rich Roll?

  How could you not be?

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:08Rich Roll?

  I think, I, I don't think we talk enough about that, like, the idea of, you know, a professional athlete having to transition into civilian life, you know? I mean, there's the rare exceptions of guys that have. You know, crazy interests out, you know, off the field who know, you know, post-career, they're gonna be doing something else, but I think those guys are the exception.

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely, especially and if you don't have a bunch of money, like if you didn't.

• 1:09:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  I didn't amass like a fortune, you know, while I was there for two years, like it's not, it's not a lot, you know, and so just not knowing what to do and then having this idea that you just were working at the job of your dreams, pretty much, and then now you have to, there's some resistance to even getting a job that you don't like at all, but you almost have to, and I had to.

• 1:09:52Rich Roll?

  Well, you know, you're, you're talking about vision and goals and all that kind of stuff, and when your goal is to play in the NFL, like, there's no room for any other goal.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:10:01Rich Roll?

  So, when that goal's over, and then suddenly you gotta, you're forced with the prospect of coming up with another goal where you've never even really spent any time thinking about that at all.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:09Rich Roll?

  Because you can't.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:11Rich Roll?

  Because you're trying to make sure that you stay on the team and you gotta focus on what's in front of you to do.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, and, and then you're just, you're just faced with all of your, your, your weaknesses, your insecurities, and that's what I went through for that, that three years, I was working at a factory job that I like hated, that I, I just, it was funny, I was working at it just, just for a short period of time, I thought, and I remember, my son's mom's dad at the time, like, my son's mom, uh, who I was with, uh, for a while, like, when I was in New Orleans, his dad told me, or her dad told me when I, I, when I started working that job, like, be careful when you work at a job like that, cause you could find yourself like stuck there for a while, and I'm like, whatever, like, I'll be there for like a couple of months, you know, just, and I was there for two and a half years, you know, and, um, just, just.

• 1:10:59Rich Roll?

  In New Orleans, or did you go back to Portland?

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  No, no, this, this is back to Portland, this is back to Portland, and just low energy, not really sure what I was doing, like, every, I was just sort of dabbling in things and very, very indecisive, not sure, you know, and, um, but. Ultimately, that got me to a point where I was like, alright, that's enough is enough. You know, and that's when I decided I was gonna become a firefighter. It was around the time I started, you know, doing, uh, or started I'mNotYou.com and started working with athletes in that way. And, and, um, I started applying these new things that I was learning through a mentor of mine, the power of visualization. And I, I became a firefighter in six months, you know, and I didn't have any, any, any experience whatsoever. You know, and this is a job that's actually statistically harder to get than, you know, to, it's harder to be a firefighter than it is to be a professional athlete statistically.

• 1:11:45Rich Roll?

  I didn't know that, really?

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  It's, it's incredibly competitive and because guys are, are in the job for so long, there's just not a lot of turnover. So it's like, you gotta get in at the right time. And so it worked, it, it worked out well and I've just, since then, it's like, I've just constantly been learning and evolving. And just sort of expanding, you know, my vision, you know, to where like, it's so funny, like when you think you have a big vision and then you meet someone else. You know, and you, you, you get exposed to a new group of people, you read a different book and you're like, wow, there's like so much more. You know, there's so much more. And so I've kind of fallen in love with, with that, with that part of life.

• 1:12:20Rich Roll?

  So where does the idea to start coaching come in? Like, is that, did that, is that, that's more recent, right?

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:26Rich Roll?

  Because I mean, you know, at some point, you became like this kind of evangelist of, of, you know, being an online person, right?

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:12:34Rich Roll?

  Which is very different from firefighting and being in the NFL, right? Like, like getting involved with, you know, communicating online with people. So, I mean, were you reading, like, how did that come up for you?

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when I first started coaching, I had no, I, I had no idea of podcasts and online blogs and any of that. I just, I just wanted to start coaching athletes and I didn't know any squat about business.

• 1:12:56Rich Roll?

  Right, so you're just like at the, at a high school near where you live or something like that?

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Right, I was at a gym that I developed a relationship with a guy who has a gym, it's Pace there in Portland, Oregon. And a guy there who was training me, his name's David McHenry, he, he was training me and then he opened up his gym to me and started training. And I actually didn't even want to be a coach, but athletes there were seeing what I was doing and like, yo, could I work with you? And I started doing that. And I was doing that under a different name than I'mNotYou.com. I'mNotYou.com came when I started reading a lot of, I started reading books and I started expanding my vision. I was like, I didn't even know that this stuff was possible, that you can make a... You can make like real money doing this. You can, you can, and I, and I love doing this, you know, and so.

• 1:13:34Rich Roll?

  What books were you reading?

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  So first was Entrepreneur on Fire is the podcast that I started.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Um, and then through, through his podcast, I was literally like following everyone who he interviewed. So I would like buy the books that they recommend. Uh, I remember I first, I, the first book that really started everything was Law of Attraction. That was the book that my mentor recommended to me. And then, um, just, just kept reading, kept expanding like, uh, Fiftyth Law was another book that I read. And then I got ahold of Ramit Sethi, who's a guy who's killing it online. And he, I bought his course, Zero to Launch, where it taught me how to, you know, launch an online product. And that was, from there was really just like, then the momentum was going. Now I'm, now I'm reading everything I can get my hands on, you know, listening to all type of podcasts. And, um, then I was like, yo, I'm not limited to working with athletes here in Portland. I could work with,

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  I can come up with online products. I could package my information in such a way where I can reach athletes in Africa and Australia, wherever, you know, and, and then I got this idea to start coaching online, which not a lot of people are doing, especially to the, the athletes that I'm targeting. And they're not, not doing the things that I'm doing. There's, there's like sports psychologists and things like that, but I feel like they're not really, they're not really solving any real, it's like you're not getting to the root of it, you know, you're not getting these people what they actually want, you know, like, uh, no one wants to be diagnosed and labeled, you know, and, you know, whatever these guys are doing. And so that's how I really started, man. And I started I'mNotYou.com.

• 1:15:01Rich Roll?

  What does that mean? Like why I'm not you?

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  Right. So it was funny, man. I was trying to figure out what, how I could, convey this emotion that I had to, uh, in, in, in a name, you know, and I was, and there's a song called I'm Not You that I used to love, that I still love. It's by Clips. It's a rap song. I'm a big hip hop guy, like I love hip hop, man. And so, and in this song, he's talking about, he's like, You know, these guys are like talking about dealing drugs and things like that, but in this particular song is like, a lot of you guys are talking about what it is that you wanna do, but like you don't really live it, you know, like, he's like, I'm not you, like, don't get me confused with you, like, I'm actually the type of guy who's in the trenches, like, who,

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  who, who will do what it takes, you know, and so I've, I related to that so much because since I was younger, I always felt like I was that type of guy, like, everyone used to talk about going to the NFL and doing this, and these guys were like better than me, like, had more talent, but I was actually the one that was willing to do what it took, like, I wasn't the one who was scared, I was the one that, you know, like, sort of was inspired by people telling me I couldn't do it and would ignore that and would listen to what it is that I wanted and go after what I wanted, and I was like, that's the mindset, like, I'm not you, like, you have to have that type of mindset that when you hear that this, you know, if you wanna start a restaurant, you know, who would start a restaurant now, like, the, the statistics, right?

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  But there's someone that, that's starting a restaurant like right now, and it's gonna kill, it's gonna, it's gonna like be a freaking hit, right? Because they have that mindset, I'm not you, of course, there's the statistics on restaurants, it's like, they, they drop within, you know, yeah, they all fail, same thing with business, I mean, you can look at online businesses as well even, I'm sure there, there're gonna be some statistics coming out on that, but are you gonna be the guy who listens to that and says, oh, well, I guess I can't do an online business, or, I guess I can't go to the NFL, I, I busted my wrist up, you know, my last year in, in, in, uh, Port- at Portland State, and I had a bunch of scouts looking at me, and I had my friend, my close friends telling me like, yo, like, you probably shouldn't waste your time, like, you know, like,

• 1:17:03Rich Roll?

  Right, you showed up at the combine with a broken wrist?

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  Right, so, just before I had my cast taken off, but I couldn't do the bench press, I had, my wrist looked like a chicken bone, you like, it was so small, you know, but during that time, I trained my ass off and I squatted like four days a week, I did everything that I could do, other than, you know, something, things having to do with my wrist, and I was prepared and I ran, you know, faster than any fullback there, I jumped high, you know what I'm saying, and I ran fast, and I caught the ball, and so I didn't do the bench press, which is the only thing that I was really limited on, but, It's like you have to have the mindset that I'm willing to do what you're not like that. That might that might deter you, but not me, you know. And so I feel like that's that's the mindset. You have that's the mindset. Anyone who has the success is like, OK, that's fine, but I'm not. I'm not you. I'm not part of the 98%. I'm part of the 2%.

• 1:17:51Rich Roll?

  But when you're working with athletes, I mean, that that's self generated like you wanted it. Right. That that fire is burning inside of you, but you you can't. I mean, you can kind of light a spark for somebody, but they got to generate their own fire.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:18:03Rich Roll?

  So you can coach all day long if you want with these people, but if they don't if they don't want it, you know, they're not going to do the work or this is not going to happen.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Right. And and that's that's what that's what I'm interested in doing is showing a young athlete how you can spark that fire, how you can cultivate that desire to be so strong that you're willing to do anything it takes to reach a goal. And that's the challenge that I love. I love taking an athlete who's like sort of just like lackluster and, you know, lazy. I love it when I meet an athlete and their parents tell me that they're lazy and that they don't work that hard and that they, you know, you know, half ass it all the time. Like, I like that. That's a good challenge for me because I know that's not really who they are. They just haven't found their their purpose yet. They haven't found a big enough reason, a big enough, you know, desire underneath that goal to like really light it, you know, and and that's what that's what

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  drives me, you know, and that's why it was so it's so incredible going to that Tony Robbins convention because I'm like, he just did that for like 10,000 people, dude. Like this place was on fire. He did that like he he found, he helped us find something in each one of us like he didn't do it, right? But he helped us. He guided us to that point because he's not going to be the reason why people change. It's you who are going to have to change, but he can be the catalyst for that. He can spark the the fire in you or or help you to that one key distinction or just that one thing that can get you going, man. And that that really drives me.

• 1:19:27Rich Roll?

  But the difference is, I mean, with Tony Robbins, he can ignite that spark, he can inspire you, but he's not going to be following up with you

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:19:36Rich Roll?

  Six months later to see where you're at, you know what I mean? That's on you. So, you know, one of the things that I always talk about and that I'm interested in is bridging that gap that exists between inspiration and action.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:47Rich Roll?

  And I think, you know, you can be inspired, but inspiration wanes pretty quickly.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:52Rich Roll?

  So you just have this amazing experience with Tony Robbins, right? But if you don't do anything, a week from now, that memory starts to fade pretty quick.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:20:00Rich Roll?

  So, you've got to jump on it and start taking actions that create momentum, right?

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:20:06Rich Roll?

  And over time, those little actions that you take, I feel like people want results so quickly.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Rich Roll?

  And they don't want to do the little thing. Like you're talking about Drew Brees, like in the rehab room, doing the annoying little exercises that no one wants to do. And when you're doing that, you're like, what does this have to do with me being an elite performer?

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:23Rich Roll?

  Like, I don't feel like I'm doing anything, I don't really need to do this, without realizing that it's that commitment to those little things on a daily basis, that like constant pressure to the details.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:20:34Rich Roll?

  That actually is the thing.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  Yep, exactly.

• 1:20:38Rich Roll?

  And a lot of it boils down to, like where I can see you fitting in is being somebody who can stand as a person who can hold people accountable, right? Like somebody who's checking in and they know, like, if they don't, you know, tell you what's going on, that you know.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:55Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  Yep. Accountability is huge and then self-accountability, and so that's why ruthless self-evaluation, that's what I call it, it's like, it's something that I teach athletes how to do, how to evaluate yourselves and actually enjoy it. And so that's why the daily habits and the systems are so important. Like you said, it's so easy to get inspired and motivated and that's not, that's part of what I do, but that's just a, that's a small part. And that's one of the ways that I might hook an athlete or get him to get excited, but then how do you take that momentum and apply it to the daily action that you need to take on a daily basis? So that's where target practice comes in, which is the system I told you about, which is doing the things that you need to do every day, those small things that might take you 20 minutes at most, you know? Having a system for how you set up your week, like, I want to, the blueprint, which is

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  that goal execution system I told you about, which is like... Not just having this big ass goal, but like, what do you, what is your three month goal? Like, what are you planning to accomplish by the end of this month? You know, and, and having those measurable and being able to, to track them on your own. Where now I have like 13 year old athletes who are journaling every day, who are setting up their own goals. You know, and, and their parents are like, yo, I can, like, like they actually want to know what they're doing. Cause they, they're not getting results in their own job and in their life. But it's not like, you can do that. Like you could teach an athlete how to do that. Like have a system for her to do it to where you can do that without me actually. Like you, this is the system that you now have and it's, it's more than, you know, an actual journal or, you know, it's a way of thinking.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  It's like how, the way that you look at evaluation, the way that you look at getting better, the way you look at frustration or progress. You see what I'm saying? And so ruthless self-evaluation, being able to objectively identify weaknesses like daily. You know, and, and notice what's working, what's not working. And that's where.

• 1:22:40Rich Roll?

  And willingness to work on the weaknesses. Like it's, you know, athletes love to work on what they're, they're good at. You know, like if you're good at the 40 and you suck at the bench press, like, you know, you're going to be doing the 40 all day.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:22:52Rich Roll?

  Cause you can strut a little bit, you know what I mean? And you don't want to do the bench press because you know you suck at that.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:22:57Rich Roll?

  But it's the commitment to work on the weaknesses. That, that, that's the hard part.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Rich Roll?

  You said something, um, we were talking about commitment to the process earlier, but I can't remember where it was. But you said something about how it annoys you, like this idea, uh, one of the things I always talk about is like, don't worry. Like you set your goal, but then on a daily basis, like you can't get, get too caught up in the results. Like you have to just embrace the process, but you have kind of a different take on that.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I actually, I, I get annoyed with the idea, like with the idea that you have to forget about your goal. Right? And so this was one of the things that confused me a lot as I was reading a lot of books. I'm like, okay, you got this guy, he's telling you, you know, just forget about the goal, you know, focus on mastery. And, and I get that you gotta, you gotta master things, but, and then you have this one extreme where it's like, you know, uh. This motivational type thing like, oh, you can do anything you want, but it's no focus on, on, on.

• 1:23:53Rich Roll?

  Right, that's meaningless without the structure.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Exactly, but so I like to, I tell my, my, my athletes to, to be obsessed with their goal. There's nothing wrong with that. You have to be obsessed with what it is that you want. But that obsession has to be channeled in such a way that you take that obsession and apply it directly to what is right in front of you right now. And so like, if, if you did that and if you had that type of mindset, then you'd be excited to work out. You would want to work out. You'd be excited to, you know, for practice on Monday morning when everyone else is down and tired. But if you're the type who's, who's so obsessed with the goal and you don't care about what needs to be done in order to get it. Like you're gonna get frustrated a lot and that's what happens with me a lot. That's what happens with a lot of athletes.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  And so it's a constant monitoring. It's a balance. You know, life is a balance and it's like, you, you can't be the guy who's just, you know, going along and, and focused on. Like you have to set a goal, otherwise you're gonna wander aimlessly.

• 1:24:48Rich Roll?

  Right, but then you back it up, you back it, you bet, you, you step back from that and create the stepping stone goal. So maybe today, you know, every, every workout has to have a specific purpose. You don't just go and train without knowing why it is that you're doing what you're doing, right? So today is the day that I'm doing my tempo run workout or today's the day that I'm doing chest and arms in the gym or whatever. And approaching, you know, each, you know, set with that, you know, presence of mind and mindfulness. So that you're completely anchored and focused on what you're doing right now. As opposed to daydreaming about the future, like, oh, it's gonna be great when I'm at the Super Bowl. It's like, no dude, you gotta like do this right now and put everything you have into that. So I think that's more what I mean, or maybe what more other people are meaning.

• 1:25:30Rich Roll?

  It doesn't mean that you, you're, you're not cognizant or consciously aware of the goal and why you're doing what you're doing. Um, but I think it, it, it, it takes that, um, that, that focus and it places it kind of in the moment of what you're doing there. As opposed to in some, in, you know, undefined future.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  Exactly, and that's the, that's the distinction that's, that's so important. That, that helped me out so much and that I have to remind myself of constantly and that I, that I want to tell athletes is like. You don't have to look at this goal that's so far away. You can take that energy that you feel, that obsession and bring that energy into right now. Into right now at this workout and apply that on a daily basis and you can condition yourself to do that. So when I was with the Saints of that 2009 season. Like, it was very clear in the beginning of that season what the goal was. And it was to win a Super Bowl. And everyone there knew it. Jeremy Shockey had just got traded to the team. Drew Brees was there. The team was stacked, ready to go. And every single practice, every single meeting, it was brought up. That was what our goal was.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  And that intensity is what gets you through tough losses. That obsession, that energy that comes with that is what gets you through, you know, those those rough patches, those hot days. That's what drives you, you know? And so, it's a, it's like you said, it's taking that energy and putting it into the moment, you know? And then you actually realize that like, this is fun as hell, you know what I mean?

• 1:26:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Like, those hard workouts, man, those freaking 100-degree days, like, you miss that, you know? Because that intensity was there.

• 1:27:02Rich Roll?

  There's two schools of thoughts, thought, when it comes to big goals. There's one school of thought that says, you know, tell everyone, plaster your goal everywhere, write it on your, you know, bathroom mirror, everybody you talk to, let them know what your goal is, you know, create some public accountability, you're on the hook. And then there's another school of thought that says, your goal is your own private thing, be careful who you share it with, like, really covet it, you know? Like, this is your own, this is very precious to you, and you have to be protective of it, because once you share it, then everybody has an opinion on it.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:27:34Rich Roll?

  And you can get derailed, and you can be influenced by people who start to tell you, well, that's not realistic, maybe you should do that. So like, where do you come down on that?

• 1:27:41Speaker 01

  Definitely the second school of thought. I'm not a guy who will tell you to go out there and announce your biggest goals to the world, you know? But, and, and, like you said, one of the reasons for that, like you talked about, and younger athletes are definitely more vulnerable, I would say, to this as well. But we're all vulnerable to it, and we like to underestimate how people around us influence us. But even the, you know, a smirk from a coworker, or your mom saying, oh, really? That's what you want to do? Or, you know, my, your dad, or your brother, this, these are things that can throw you off track and can sap you of your, your level of belief. And so, I don't believe in, I believe in sharing your goals with people who are really going to support you, and that usually is going to be like a small handful of people.

• 1:28:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you got to choose those people carefully.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  Exactly. For me, that's my wife, and, you know, my brothers and things like that. But, other than that, man, it's like, I do believe in... Having your goals be very visual and so having finding new creative ways to have your go be able to see your goals and so I have vision boards and I have pictures of what it is that I want to accomplish. And those help drive me and things like that, but again, those are in places that I like to keep private and I don't like everyone coming into my office.

• 1:28:50Rich Roll?

  Not everybody can walk in and look at your vision board.

• 1:28:52Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I tell my wife like when I'm not at home like.

• 1:28:55Rich Roll?

  Like a high school girl with like pictures from magazines cut out.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Like I like, I like to keep my job personal, man. And so like, and again, cause I, I, I kinda under, I've underestimated how, how much, you know, people's opinions and things and we all like to believe that we don't care what people think, but that's not true. Everyone cares to some degree. And so I work to, you know, increase my level of confidence in my ability, so much so that, you know, that's not a factor, but in the meantime, I keep my goals private and, you know, and make sure I share them with people who, who are gonna empower me and hold me accountable.

• 1:29:30Rich Roll?

  What kind of method do you use to teach visualization?

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  So there's a, there's a, a process, if you will, but I, I don't have like a name for it yet, but I've learned it through many different books. One of the books I, that was key in me learning how to visualize was Peak Performance and I can't remember the guy's name, but uh, but look it up, you can look it up, Peak Performance, but uh, learning how to rela- like really actually relax yourself first. And so I use music a lot and so I do these guided visualizations over music. And so the process is real simple, but getting yourself in a really relaxed state. And so that was one thing that I was missing when I was younger. I never knew how to like relax or, or get into that state, but your, your subconscious is more easily influenced in that state. And so you're kinda quiet in your conscious mind, that, that doubting, you know, little voice that's like,

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  yeah, right. You know, like you kinda could teach, train yourself to quiet that. And then I like to get my, I like to start off just thinking about anything that gets me feeling good, you know, and so I can, it can, at any given moment, it can be, you know, uh, you know, when my kid was born or, you know, when I was young and drinking a Slurpee with my brothers or, you know, uh, when I scored a touchdown, just get myself in a state of that, that I'm feeling good. It doesn't have to be related to my sport. And then I start to visualize, so I start to imagine whatever it is that I'm doing going exactly as I want it to go. So I picture how I'd be moving, what I'd be seeing, what I'd be smelling, how I'd, how I'd feel, you know, I'd, and I start to like actually smile in that way and, and just feel that.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  And then I sort of have this thing where I, I sort of step into it, so I imagine that I'm stepping inside of that person. You know, and then the last step is just letting it go. So actually, like, almost like you're, you have a letter, you know, and you put the stamp on it, and you put it in, in the mailbox, you just let it go. Like, your, your job is done. And so, that's a really key distinction that I learned later on that, that gets you, that sort of trains you to not be so anxious about getting that result. So just, just have faith, man, like, you done, you done your work, it's done.

• 1:31:31Rich Roll?

  And so that would be, like, how many minutes would that be?

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  That's about twelve minutes.

• 1:31:35Rich Roll?

  And that's something you do like every day, or?

• 1:31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, I do it every day. I do it in the morning, and so this is, I actually just created the track through my online course, Dominate, which I just came out with a, a few weeks ago, the, but that's one of the things I included in there, but it's a twelve minute track, and I like, music is a big, like, I'm very much, uh, my emotional state is, is influenced highly by music, you know, and so, for any given person, it might be certain type of music. I really like hip hop, man, so I get, I get hype, you know, and so, uh, that elicits good emotions for me, you know, and so, um, that's what I use in the backdrop, and so I've, I also make affirmation tracks, which I basically like, I probably have about twenty or thirty of these where

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  I'm just describing success and how I see it, you know, everything from, you know, what I do in the morning to what I, I actually, as a firefighter, I have tracks where I describe exactly how I am on a fire scene and what I'm doing and what things I'm paying attention to. And I'd listen to these, like, I just play them, I listen to them while I'm working, while I'm working out, my kid, I listen to them while I'm in the car, I have my kids make them, and it's, it's, it's fun, but it really is like, I mean, people can debate whether or not that stuff works or not, um, I think it does, and I've seen it in my own life, and so, it, like, when I'm noticing, it's really fun to notice yourself doing something that you established earlier that you wanted to do, you know, and you're like,

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  like, damn, I, that was, that was my goal, like, I, I, I recorded that, you know, like, and I was actually just showing this to my wife, I was listening to a, a, a track that I, that I created, like, Couple of years back, you know, before I became a firefighter, it's like, damn, like, I'm like, I actually did a lot of this shit. Like, I did it, you know what I mean?

• 1:33:19Rich Roll?

  So you record these affirmations just for yourself, though?

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, for myself.

• 1:33:24Rich Roll?

  I see, I got it.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the visualization tracks that I created those for my athletes now.

• 1:33:29Rich Roll?

  Right, I gotcha. Yeah, that's cool. I think it's powerful, especially if you're trying to kind of undo, you know, bad habits or, you know, poor thinking habits around, you know, negative thought patterns. If you want to overcome them, you know, you gotta, you gotta take actions, you know, and those actions have to be taken consistently. Cause it doesn't happen overnight. Like, that's a, that's a long road, you know, to kind of like untangle that and plug it back in differently.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. And the way I like to describe it is, cause there's some, you know, books that you'll read and these, I've read books like this that say like, you just make an affirmation and you're gonna, you're gonna start to see, I'm like, I'm like, are you for real? Like, it's almost like insulting, but it's one, it's only one tool. It's just like anything else. Like, it's a tool. Like, you can't have, you can't just visualize. You must take action as well. But I've seen a lot of people take action with no vision, and that doesn't work out either. So it's a tool. It's a complete set. And when you develop that arsenal as an athlete, man, then you become like unstoppable. And that's what I've noticed as I get further on this journey and that, you know, I see guys, you know, guys like you or guys in different areas,

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  you know, different elements of, of, of, uh, different arenas that have achieved a certain level of success, is it's not like one thing, man. It's like, it's mastery and it's mastery in many different areas and it's a commitment to being great, like, every day. You know, it's not like this, like you said, it's not this one cool thing that if you do this, like, online, I know a lot of guys with online businesses and I fell victim to this. It's like, you have this idea that you're just one little trick away from, like, no, it's a process, man. Like, it's a grind and it's a hustle. It's a, it's a, it's a collection of strategies and tools that you have to perfect and keep perfecting and you'll, you'll see, you'll see the results.

• 1:35:20Rich Roll?

  And it's in the micro actions, you know, like, for example, You know, words are really important, right? Right. Words that come out of your mouth. And, you know, for the most part, I know myself and most people, we don't, you know, we don't think about that that much. Right. You know, stuff comes out of your mouth, whatever you're thinking, and we don't really gauge like the impact of that on, on, you know, how that's influencing our behavior in a more macro sense, right? Right. So if you're walking around kicking the dog all the time, or just, ah, this sucks, or you know, negative, and these words are coming out of your mouth, like, that's a loop, you know? Exactly. That's a loop that is gonna lead you in a certain direction. And, you know, this is a challenge for me. Like, I shared about this on a podcast recently, but I was listening to a podcast and I heard an interview with this guy,

• 1:36:04Rich Roll?

  Brian Grazer, who's a, he's a very successful movie producer, and, uh, he's a cool dude. And he said something really interesting in the podcast that, that just stuck with me, which, somebody asked him, like, you know, why do you, what do you attribute your success to, or your longevity in your career? And he, and he said, "I'm really good at gratitude." You know, he's like, "I'm really good at gratitude." It's like such a weird, it's not an answer that you would expect. Right, right. You know? And I was like, "Wow." I go, "That's, that's like really powerful," you know? And, and I'm not good at gratitude. You know, I can be grateful, but it's not my default. Right, right, right. I've got some rewiring to do. Right. And so, my wife and I just, we were on a big trip. We were all over Europe, and we were in Boston, like, we, like, just got back from, from being on the road for like two weeks.

• 1:36:48Rich Roll?

  And so I told her, when we were, when we were traveling, I go, "I get, I get really aggravated traveling, going in and out of airports, and having to deal with people that, you know, and waiting in lines and stuff like that, and I just get grumpy." Yeah. I was like, "I'm not gonna be grumpy. I'm gonna like, I'm gonna be the happy traveler. I'm just gonna be grateful. I'm gonna like, look everyone in the eye and smile and say, 'Thank you.'" And like, that's not natural for me. Right. You know, and I was like, I wasn't perfect. I wouldn't give myself an A, but I give myself like a solid B. Yeah. And it transformed our trip. Like, my wife was like, "Wow." You know, at times, I was like joking. I'd be like, "Thank you so much." You know, I'd look at my wife, and you know, like, but it was because, but I made a conscious effort to think about that,

• 1:37:30Rich Roll?

  and to, and to change the way that I communicate. And, and just by changing the words that were coming out of my mouth, that changed my mood. Like, I had a better, it was a better experience. Right. And so, that requires being mindful, like... All the time, like all day long, in the moment, like, you know, because you just, you do it and then you forget.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:37:52Rich Roll?

  Because you go back to your default, right?

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:37:54Rich Roll?

  It takes work to be present enough to go, I have a choice in this moment about how I'm going to act or react. I don't have to react the way that I always do because I tell myself, I'm this person and this is how I behave.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:06Rich Roll?

  You can change that, but it's not an overnight thing, man, you know?

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is, yeah.

• 1:38:12Rich Roll?

  You have to be committed to that process and to walking that road and it's work.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:17Rich Roll?

  There's no way, there's no way around that, you know? And so, you know, it's interesting, it'll be interesting to see how your athletes do as they mature and, and, uh, and it's cool, man, it's cool what you're doing.

• 1:38:37Rich Roll?

  What do the guys in the, in the, in the firehouse think? Like, oh, you're some crazy online... Because they're just like, how many of those guys have kind of a second career that they're looking at? At the same time, like moonlighting on something else?

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  Right. I don't know how much they're moonlighting, but there's some guys who, who have, you know, some things that they do on the side, but honestly, man, it's something that I sort of keep close to me. There's obviously guys that know what I'm doing and things, and there's even some guys that, that I work with that, you know, I actually shared the Peak Performance book with one of my friends that, that was, uh, actually, he just won, got first place in the stair climb in Portland.

• 1:39:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so, he's like trying to win the Seattle one and I keep telling him, man, like, you can do that, man. Like, he's close, you know, but he's, he's like incredible athlete, man. This guy's like flies up those stairs.

• 1:39:26Rich Roll?

  Firefighters are competitive too, man. Is there like, you guys having competitions in the firehouse all the time?

• 1:39:30Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, definitely. We have like, um, these monthly, you know, sort of workout challenges and stuff like that. But it's honestly, man, like, it's a... It really just depends on who you work with, you know, there's a, because it's like a job that you work there for so many years, usually, you got older guys, you have older guys, and you have younger guys, so it's kind of similar to the NFL in that it's just a collection of unique people and you could at any given day, you can have a, you have a really interesting crew, or you can have a boring crew, you can have a fun crew, you can have a dreadful crew, you know, like, so it's, it's kind of like shaking the dice.

• 1:40:08Rich Roll?

  But you have a schedule, right, where you work like, like a couple of days on and then you're, and then you're off for a little bit, right?

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  So you work 24 hours on.

• 1:40:15Rich Roll?

  You have some free time to like, do some of this stuff.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. I got good free time and like, when you, you know, and, and I, I've been blessed to work with guys who are like really cool guys, you know what I mean, that are really supportive. And my, my particular crew, 74 A shift, you know, like, uh, you guys like to work out, you know, and stay active and things like that, so it's pretty cool.

• 1:40:36Rich Roll?

  You been in some crazy fires?

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Uh, my, in Gresham, city Gresham, man, we have a lot of fires. So like, usually a firefighter, depending on where you live, man, you don't see a lot of fires in your career. It's not something that happens all the time, but.

• 1:40:49Rich Roll?

  Mostly you're like showing up where some old lady had a heart attack, right?

• 1:40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of medical calls, but in my particular city, man, it's pretty rough, like, there's a lot of.

• 1:40:58Rich Roll?

  Are you in Portland, like?

• 1:41:00Speaker 01

  No, so I, there's Portland Fire Department, there's Gresham, Gresham is on the outskirts of Portland, so it's smaller, like 100,000 people. Um, but pretty low income and it's a lot of crime, a lot of things like that. So you see, definitely see a lot of things that shake your world up a little bit, but I've, I've learned a lot, man, becoming a firefighter is, it was crazy because going from, you kind of have an appreciation for, for mastery, because when you go to something that you've been good at for so long, you kind of take for, for granted that you've been good at it. And then I became a firefighter, it's like, I didn't know anything, so I'm like. Coming in last and everything, you know, like, you know, just not knowing what the hell I'm doing, just looking stupid, like asking questions that guys are like, you don't know what that is? I'm like, you know, what's this?

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  But it's extremely humbling, but it makes you appreciate, like, like I said, just mastery, man, and having to do that all over again. It's, uh, it's, it's really fun and it's very rewarding as well, especially when you can, you know, make a, a difference, like in somebody's, somebody's life, you know?

• 1:41:58Rich Roll?

  Have you been in a fire where you really thought your life was on the line, or?

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Uh, not yet. I haven't been in a fire where I've been, my life on the line. But when you go on your first couple of fires, all fire feels like that. You know, at least for me it did. I'm like, shoot, but after a while, it's just kind of routine and you, just like anything, man, you pay attention to the details, you know, uh, cause, uh, not paying attention to details can get you killed.

• 1:42:21Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Um, so there's always that sense of urgency surrounding what you're doing. Uh, but it's, it's just like anything, man, you just train, train your ass off and, and keep learning and you'll be fine.

• 1:42:32Rich Roll?

  Do you think that your, I mean, is your goal, maybe you don't want to tell me your goal? I'm supportive, man. Are you, are you, do you want to step into like the coaching full-time? Or do you want to continue to do both?

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Uh, I want to continue to do both, man. And, um, really, I think that there's a way for me to expand my reach online, you know, simultaneously, you know, while I'm still being a firefighter. So, and that's why online is so cool, man. Like I said, I just came on my online product, my first one, and it was like so cool. I'm like, I can, there's no limit to like who I can reach or what the time limit on this is. It's, it's, it's like writing a book, which is something I want to do eventually, but.

• 1:43:11Rich Roll?

  It's a crazy time, man.

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  Exactly, man, like, like writing a book, somebody can pick, your book is going to last as long as books are here, you know? And that's a pretty cool feeling, you know? And I want to, I want to be able to have that level of impact and not have it be, you know, depending on where I am or what else I choose to do, you know, at certain times in my life.

• 1:43:28Rich Roll?

  Cool. Well, I got a couple more questions I want to ask you. One thing I want to do is have you kind of walk me through your morning routine or you know, kind of what a day in the life of, you know, your life particularly in the context of like these tools that you're using that are improving your life.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely.

• 1:43:49Rich Roll?

  And the tools that you're sort of teaching these athletes.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Yep. So morning time, this is ideal, obviously, you know, but waking up, like taking a cold shower is a new habit that I've taken on that's been pretty life-changing, if you will. And one of the reasons-

• 1:44:05Rich Roll?

  You've been listening to Wim Hof on all these podcasts?

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  No, so I actually just, I just heard about Wim Hof, but what I first heard about cold shower, who did I hear about it first from? I can't remember who I first heard it from, but Tony Robbins talks about it as well.

• 1:44:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he does like the cryotherapy and all that too.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:44:21Rich Roll?

  Because he's going to live to be like 200.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, but that's been a really good habit and just waking you up and really goes to start your day off doing something that you feel uncomfortable doing and just kind of shakes you up a little bit. But meditating has been a game changer for me, so I use Headspace. And when I first started using that, man, I actually first started using this app called Calm and I would just do like five minutes a day. And when I first became a firefighter, I had really high blood pressure and it's been a problem for a while, but since I've been using Calm, like 50 points lower, man.

• 1:44:52Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Like a legit, like, average score, you know, before it was like 180 over something, you know? So that's a big, a big difference that I've seen there. So Calm or doing the Headspace and then visualizing. And so I have a couple different ways that I do it and I kind of mix it up, but again, those tracks that I told you about that I record over hip-hop music. And then I journal. And so like I said, I have this thing called a blueprint where I pretty much go through a list of questions. It's all in a form of questions and I start off by identifying the things that I'm grateful for, you know, and so just noticing the things that are going well in my life. And again, man, it's like, it's a good habit to start and I encourage anyone to-

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Like if you haven't felt so grateful that you wanna cry, then you haven't felt the level yet. And I just got to this this weekend, actually. So, but I think that the practice of me doing this every day is led me up to this point, you know, and sort of exercising that gratitude muscle, but um.

• 1:45:48Rich Roll?

  So the journaling is like a gratitude list? Or what is the actual thing that you're journaling?

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  So I'll show you, so that's one part, you know, so I start off, it's a sequence of questions. And so after I identify what I'm grateful for, I write down my goals. Like, so I'll write down either my short-term or longer-term goals in a form of affirmations, like it's real, and it's just a, it's a habit that I've gotten into, just writing down what it is that, what it is that I want. And that, that again, gets me focused on what it is that I need to do today to get that. Then the next question I ask myself is, how do I decide to feel today? So like, instead of feeling however I feel, like I wanna decide how I wanna feel. And I have recipes for how to do that, but which, what is, what is the emotion that I wanna have today? Whether it's like, I wanna be really patient and calm today, or I wanna be, I gotta be on fire,

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  cuz I'm, I got a podcast interview that I'm doing, or you know, I'm hanging out with my wife all day. I wanna be really, you know, relaxed, you know, and, and uh, and sort of just calm, you know? Cuz I've had to learn how to distinguish those two, you know? I can't come home to my wife, you know, all fired up, you know? Uh, she doesn't respond too well to that, but, and then um, identifying, like this is a question that I ask, like, if I was crazy committed to reaching my top, my top priority goal, what would I do today? And that's a good question to ask, because it kinda like, gets me thinking like, outside of the box. Instead of just doing the normal things, like, oh, I was crazy, like, what would I do today? You know, like, if I, like, what I, and then that's sort of exercising that, that creativity muscle is, is good. And then I identify what, what is my workout for today, and I write it down.

• 1:47:20Speaker 01

  And then say, what are the top three goals or outcomes that I wanna achieve? So like, what is the end result? And then what are the top five actions that I need to take to achieve those outcomes? And so that just gives you an idea of like the, the morning process of my journal.

• 1:47:33Rich Roll?

  And so how long does that whole morning routine take you?

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Probably forty, forty-five minutes. The journaling takes about ten minutes. All those questions that I ask fits on, or that I just told you fit on one page.

• 1:47:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's a good practice, man. I like that.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it came as like, you know, you read a bunch of books that everyone's telling you what you should do every day. I'm like, how am I gonna do all those different things?

• 1:47:53Rich Roll?

  Well, the morning routine starts getting longer and longer and longer. It's like, this is like two hours of stuff.

• 1:47:58Speaker 01

  And that's like five journals that you should have, because they're like, you should carry around a journal for this. And so I just created one journal and I make them, I make a new one each month, you know? And so like I, and I'm constantly adding to it and taking things out. Um, and so then, man, after my morning routine, it really, like, I'll just give you all my day off. You know, that's when I hang out with my family in the morning after, you know, my kids usually come into my office in the morning. I love getting that knock on the door, you know, when they're getting ready for school and go eat breakfast with them, things like that. My wife go work out, or me and my wife go work out about nine or something. And then about noon is noon to about four, that's when I get my work done. So that's me working on my projects, working with athletes over the phone. Sometimes I might go to the gym to work with them there, because I have a handful of clients that I work with, you know, one-on-one.

• 1:48:41Rich Roll?

  Locally, yeah.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Yep. And so that, that's that time block that I work, that I get my work done in my office and things like that. And then it's, it's shutting it down later on in the night and hanging out with my family and, you know, doing their homework, you know, chilling out in the backyard, whatever that is. And we usually go to sleep pretty late, you know, because uh, it's, we still have a hard time getting all our kids to bed at the time that we want them to. So, and it just feels like there's, it's like we, on the one hand, we're like, yo, they have to go to sleep at this time. But then it's like, I feel like I want to hang out with them, you know, like, I don't want them to go to sleep yet. So it's kind of hard getting in that balance, but we usually find ourselves asleep by, you know, eleven or twelve, you know? But at night is when I do my, my daily evaluation. And so that's really important. And again, I go through the things that I'm grateful for, write down my goals again.

• 1:49:26Speaker 01

  And then I identify like, what did I do today? And then. What were the things that I didn't do that I said I was gonna do? And then why didn't I do them? And so through that, I start to see trends, you know? And so I start to get good at noticing the things that are like easily holding me back. Or I start to get a little bit more reasonable with what I say I'm gonna do on a daily basis, you know? And so it gets, I, I don't, it gets, sometimes it frustrates me when I put a lot, a bunch of things on my to-do list and I only get a few done, but I've become okay with that because it's like, there's really only a few things anyway that make the biggest difference. And so I have my thing, I call it my one thing. So what is my one thing? What is the one thing I gotta do today that if I don't do anything else, I do it? And so I evaluate myself that night if I did my one thing.

• 1:50:10Speaker 01

  And if you did, what made it easier to do it? And if I didn't, why didn't I do it? You know, and then again, I identify what are the things I have to do tomorrow and things like that. So again, that all fits on one page. So it's, when I first show my athletes this journal, like they kinda, they kinda overwhelmed, right?

• 1:50:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like, that's, it's, it's work.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Right, it is. And that's what, it's work. So you've talked about consciously, you know, identifying weaknesses. So for the gratitude thing, right? It's how easy is it gonna be for you to just forget, you know? And just let that be something that you continue to do pretty much forever unless you consciously identify. And this is a system that I created.

• 1:50:49Rich Roll?

  You have to make an effort to like constantly be reconnecting with it.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Right, right. And that's what my, this blueprint does for me and does for my athletes. It just does it in a systematic way where it just reminds you of, you know, continuously and constantly conditioning and reinforcing that morning and night.

• 1:51:05Rich Roll?

  Nice. And what about this evaluation that you give to your wife and your kids?

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:51:10Rich Roll?

  I wanna talk about this.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  So man.

• 1:51:12Rich Roll?

  And can you give me a copy of that?

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  I definitely can. I actually have a PDF. I can share it with your, with your followers as well. Cause I, I came up, I put all the questions, it's a Google Doc that I originally created, like an actual survey that I would email to my wife and my, and my daughter, you know?

• 1:51:26Rich Roll?

  It's like a report card on your behavior.

• 1:51:28Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. And so I can't remember when this exactly started, but I remember the feeling around the time. It was like, like, there's all these, I'm sitting here telling my athletes they need to evaluate themselves and they need to be very, you know, objective about, you know, being able to identify weaknesses and stuff. And at the particular time, me and my wife are going through a pretty rough patch. You know, it's like, I was a new firefighter, it's like, I'm away all the time. She's like overwhelmed with the kids, man, I'm like gone, you know, like in, you know, putting all this work on my business. And it was tough for us, you know, like. Tempers going, you know, and getting in arguments and things. And I'm like, yo, I need to figure out like, how, what can I do to like, get better consistently? Cause I know I got a lot of work to do as a husband.

• 1:52:10Speaker 01

  So I don't want to overwhelm myself with the frustration of knowing I'm not like, fulfilling all of the things that she expects from me. Like, why don't I just start getting better, you know? And so I just came up with a list of questions where it's like, yo, like, how, so this is, like, rate me on a scale of one to 10 and like, let's say, communication, right? Things that she feels is important. So, uh, communications is, is big time. So rate me one to 10. And if it's not a 10, tell me what I can do to make it a 10. So that, that gets her to basically give me the answers to the test in a way that's not going to make me upset. You know, that she doesn't have to be upset when asking it, you know, uh, or, or, or telling me. And I, everyone's happy.

• 1:52:52Speaker 01

  It's like, and I also, there were certain questions on there where I basically asked her to tell me, like, tell me one thing that I did this week that was just like awesome, that you were just like, blown away by, you know, and give me an example of it, describe it. And that reinforces that behavior with me, you know? That gets her to start looking, you know what I mean?

• 1:53:10Rich Roll?

  Cause if you know you're going to give her the evaluation sheet, the survey, and she's going to have to answer that question. So you better show up in some way beforehand and do something.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. And it's just, and reading it makes it easier to, to swallow. Like, I get, I mean, my wife would tell you, I get, I've gotten to where, and we actually just had one of these conversations, uh, just yesterday on the, cause we just drove up to the Bay Area. Uh, it was like six hours to visit my brothers and stuff. And I had her pretty much, I was just like, yo, just be dead ass honest with me, you know, about, uh, this particular thing. You know, just, I want you to tell me how I show up to you. Like, what do I, like, just tell me, like, don't try to filter it. Don't, like, I just want you to tell me, like, you're in a confessional and you're just, and she told me. And I, anxiety, you know, while I'm hearing it, I'm just like, there was a couple of times I wanted to be like, man.

• 1:54:03Rich Roll?

  She's sitting right over there, by the way. Maybe she just come on here and like, and like, say what it is.

• 1:54:09Speaker 01

  Oh man, yeah man, but she would tell me and she told me everything, man, and it's like, it's hard to hear, but it's like, I need to hear it. And I, I was quiet afterward, like I was quiet as, as she told, and it was, it was silence. And I know she knew it was hard for me to hear, and then after about like five minutes, you know, I, I responded and, and, and we talked about it and things like that. But that, the, the initial like evaluation that I set up, you know, when we were asking these questions, led me up to the point where I can, I can get deeper and closer with my wife, you know, like I, she could actually-

• 1:54:40Rich Roll?

  You can have those conversations and it's not a fight.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:54:43Rich Roll?

  And that's how you cultivate deeper intimacy.

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  Right, right, and knowing, her knowing the man that I want to be, so she knows, she knows exactly who I want to be. She knows all my goals, she knows how I see myself, how I want to feel every day, how I want to treat my wife and my kids. And it's okay that I'm not there yet, but she knows where I want to be, so she's able to evaluate me, help evaluate me based on that criteria.

• 1:55:06Rich Roll?

  Well, and also just the fact that you're doing it shows that you have an interest in being better.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:55:12Rich Roll?

  Like that you're committed to the relationship.

• 1:55:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, and it sets a, it sets a good precedent, man, my daughter actually loves it, like she gets, she asks me-

• 1:55:19Rich Roll?

  Your kids fill it out, right?

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, just my oldest daughter right now, you know, and um, she like, when I don't send it, she asks me like, are you sending it? You know, like, and I want to find a way to like automate it or something, but she, she really loves it, man, and it, it's just, it's really less about the actual, it's more of like the mindset of just wanting to improve and genuinely wanting to serve, uh, especially those who are closest to you, like, and if my wi- if things are going well with my wife and my kids, man, I'm, I'm on top of the world, you know, and so, if there's anything worth investing in, if there's any evaluation I should do, it's, it's as a father and as a husband, you know what I mean? And so I just had to take my own advice and, and I've tried to get better at that and just not taking things personal, you know, and just,

• 1:56:03Speaker 01

  just being able to literally objectively hear things about myself, and I have an accountability partner as well, we talk every Fri- every Friday, and um, we ask ourselves the same questions, like, how do I show up to you, you know? And so I, I tell, I tell, I tell the people this all the time, like I give my wife, my wife permission, like- If I'm acting like a little bitch, you can tell me, like, stop being a little bitch. Like, and I got to that point. I wasn't always at that point. But my wife can tell me that. If you're acting, if you're doing things that, that aren't consistent with how you ultimately want to be, like, I want you to tell me, you know, and I don't, don't care if I get mad. If I get mad, that's good. You know, I'll get mad. I'll get in my feelings, but it's almost just like boiling out all the impurities, you know, like, and then hopefully at the end, you got something pure there, you know?

• 1:56:48Rich Roll?

  What is this accountability partner? Like for your business?

• 1:56:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's one of my friends, and I actually met him through, uh, through one of the online courses that I took, and so, he's one of my good friends, uh, James, and he, he keeps me accountable, man, and we have, we have a set of things that are important to us that, that, uh, we want each other to hold accountable for. So like, for example, with me, like, I want to, I want him to make, like, to, to make sure that things are going, like, I want him to ask me about how things are going with my wife, and how certain weaknesses that I have, like, what I'm doing on those, and, and it's to the point now, and we get better and better at it. In the beginning, it was a little awkward, you know? It's like, so you want to, you're, you're being honest with him, and you, you're like, oh, is he gonna take this the wrong way? But we've gotten good at this, and he calls me out, you know what I mean?

• 1:57:34Speaker 01

  And, and I'm getting better at doing the same for him, and it's, it's, it actually gets pretty fun, you know, because when you, like, come face to face with your weaknesses, instead of trying to run from a man, like, I feel like you get more, that's what courage is, you know? Like, you get more confidence that way. You don't get less confidence by facing your weaknesses. You get more. Uh, as long as you're taking action to improve them, you know what I mean?

• 1:57:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I love it, man. Send me that PDF.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  I'll definitely do that.

• 1:58:00Rich Roll?

  All right. All right, last question.

• 1:58:03Rich Roll?

  For the athletes that are listening, or even just somebody who perhaps is feeling stuck in their life, maybe an athlete who's hit a plateau, or somebody who feels like they're in a job they don't want to be in, or what, or what have you, you know, what is one piece of advice that you can give, one actionable item that they can implement into their life to start to shift that experience?

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  Okay, one actionable item. I would challenge everyone to sit down, to block every- Turn off all your phones. Uh, go, go somewhere where it'll be just you. And I want you to write down a clear vision for yourself. A clear, like in an ideal world, how would you show up? What would you do? What would you, what would you, how would you dress? How would you talk? How much would you earn? That this, that process of coming up with a very clear vision is, is, is been the most important thing for me, you know? Because if you don't have that vision, it's like everything you're doing, you don't know where it ultimately ends up. So be clear on that and don't limit yourself. Like really make it something that's attractive to you and, and be open to that vision expanding, you know, and adjusting along the way. But just doing that alone, and I mean, you talk to people who are stuck.

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  Like when I was at the point in life, when I was stuck and I didn't know, I didn't have a vision. But as soon as I got a vision, then I started taking action. Then I started doing all the things that I needed to do. Then opportunities started showing up and I was able to take advantage of them. So create a vision, like create a solid vision and have the, start working on your system a- around what it is that you need to do on a daily basis. So setting up habits that will support that vision. So everything, ideally, everything that you do on a daily basis should support your vision of your higher self, you know? And so, and you want to just work towards that. And so the, I'll create, I've created a PDF for, for your listeners and I'll, and I'll share the link with you. Uh, that you can get that target practice system that helps you set up those habits. And has a chart for you to keep track of it and things like that. Same one as I use with my athletes.

• 1:59:55Rich Roll?

  Oh, cool. I'll put a link in the show notes up to that then.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:59:58Rich Roll?

  Cool, man. All right, final thing. My boy Josh LaJanni, he's a friend of mine. He's been on the podcast before. Biggest Saints fan ever.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 2:00:08Rich Roll?

  So you gotta give him a shout out.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Hey, shout out to Josh, man. Go Saints, man.

• 2:00:13Rich Roll?

  All right, man. I think we did it, dude.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely, man.

• 2:00:15Rich Roll?

  Thanks for, uh, thanks for doing it, man. That's, that's an inspiring message and, uh, it's been super great to talk to you, man. I really appreciate it.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  Definitely, man. Thanks for having me, man.

• 2:00:24Rich Roll?

  Cool. So, uh, if you're digging on, is it Ni Yi? Ni, how do you say it?

• 2:00:29Speaker 01

  Ni Yi.

• 2:00:29Rich Roll?

  Ni Yi, yeah. If you're digging on Ni Yi, uh, best way to find you is imnotyou.com. And, uh, Ni Yi Shobo on Twitter, yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  Yep, and on Instagram as well, Ni Yi Shobo, yeah.

• 2:00:40Rich Roll?

  N I Y I S O B O. It's Shobo even though it's S O B O, right?

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Yep, exactly.

• 2:00:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool, man. Anywhere else or is, yeah, both Instagram, Twitter?

• 2:00:49Speaker 01

  Yep, and imnotyou.com, so you find me.

• 2:00:51Rich Roll?

  Cool, man. Thanks so much.

• 2:00:52Speaker 01

  No doubt, man. Appreciate it.

• 2:00:54Rich Roll?

  All right. Peace. Thanks.

• 2:01:03Rich Roll?

  All right, that's it. That's our show. I hope you guys enjoyed that. I totally dug me. I thought he was super cool. And I wanted to let you guys know that he has a gift for you guys. He wanted to make sure that some of the documents that we discussed during today's podcast would be accessible to you guys for free. So he's made three of his PDFs completely free for my listeners. It includes his daily blueprint, which is kind of a spreadsheet where you account for how you spend your time and how that moves your goals forward. Also, his nine-step plan for creating bulletproof habits. And also, his accountability survey, the document that he gives his wife and kids that we discussed today. Anyway, if you want to check those out, they're completely free. There's nothing else required of you.

• 2:01:47Rich Roll?

  Just go to imnotyou.com/richroll. I am N-O-T-Y-O-U dot com forward slash richroll. And I'll also put that link up in the show notes, which is cool. That was very nice of him to do that. Speaking of show notes, don't forget to check out the remainder of this week's comprehensive show notes at richroll.com on the episode page. Lots of stuff to delve into there and take your edification to the next level. Don't forget to subscribe to my newsletter at richroll.com and to download the free iOS app from the App Store. That way, you can access the entire RRP catalog, all 198? Yeah, 198 episodes completely for free. For all your plant power needs, you can get those at richroll.com.

• 2:02:32Rich Roll?

  You can get signed copies of our cookbook, The Plant Power Way, signed copies of Finding Ultra. We got all kinds of t-shirts, all 100% organic cotton. We got plant-powered tech tees. We got sticker packs. We got temporary tattoos. We have beautiful, limited-edition art prints. All kinds of cool stuff that make for great gifts this holiday season. So check that out. And keep sending in the questions for future Q and A podcasts to [email protected]. Check out my online courses at mindbodygreen.com, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition and The Art of Living with Purpose, of course. And thanks for supporting the show, you guys. For sharing it on social media, doing all that fun, good stuff, and for always using the Amazon banner ad for all your Amazon purchases.

• 2:03:16Rich Roll?

  I love you guys. Make it a great week. I'm looking forward to getting into December with you guys. Lots of great shows coming up. So until then, peace. Plants. Be well.