The REAL Sausage King Of Chicago (Reheat)

Live on stage from Chicago! Hot Doug explains why he turned down millions and closed his famous sausage shop. Plus, filmmaker and food writer Kevin Pang talks about his documentary, For Grace, about Chef Curtis Duffy. Chef Curtis joins us to discuss his journey to the top, and to reveal his favorite candy.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  Make holiday hosting effortless with Boars Head Sweet Slice Uncured Ham. It's the perfect centerpiece for gathering family and friends around the holiday table. Hand-packed into netting, Sweet Slice Uncured Ham has the look of a traditional holiday ham with rich flavor worth savoring. Slow roasted and delicately smoked, boneless Sweet Slice Uncured Ham delivers classic bone-in flavor made for the moments that bring everyone together. Find Sweet Slice Uncured Ham at your nearest Boars Head deli. And for holiday entertaining inspiration, recipes, and more, visit boarshead.com. As someone who has been lucky enough to go to Napa Valley, I can tell you, it's everything people say it is: beautiful scenery, quaint, beautiful towns, and phenomenal food and drink everywhere you go.

• 0:44Dan Pashman?

  I don't even know that much about wine, but I know that every glass of wine I had in Napa Valley was excellent. I mean, there's no bad glass of wine and no bad meal. Choose between hundreds of wineries, tasting rooms, and chef-led restaurants from a low-key lunch on a vineyard terrace to a full tasting menu paired by the winemaker. Plan your trip at visitnapavalley.com.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Sirius XM Podcasts.

• 1:15Dan Pashman?

  Hey, everyone, it's Dan here with a reheat by request. Listener John wrote in and said, "I'm a longtime Hot Doug's fan. I was looking for some history and came across your podcast on the subject, but they're no longer available." Well, that's right, John. Some of the really old ones are no longer available until we pull them out of the deep freezer and reheat them as we are doing for you today. In this episode, I talk with Doug Soane, aka Hot Doug himself. Now, Hot Doug's was a legendary sausage joint in Chicago. It closed down, but the six-month advance notice of its closure sparked real hysteria, not just in Chicago, but it spread across the country. There were like pilgrimages to Hot Doug's. So why? Why would anyone wait in line for four hours for a sausage? Well, you're gonna listen to this episode and find out.

• 2:00Dan Pashman?

  Then later in the show, I'm joined by filmmaker and food writer Kevin Pang and chef Curtis Duffy. Kevin made a documentary about Curtis called For Grace, all about what it took for Curtis to open his Michelin-starred restaurant, Grace. Now, I should note that Grace closed in 2017, but Curtis went on to open another Michelin-starred restaurant in Chicago in 2020. That one's called Ever. Remember, there's an episode of The Sporkful you want us to pull out of the deep freezer? We take requests. This one's by request from John. If you want to hear one, send me an email or voice memo to [email protected]. Thanks so much, and enjoy. This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman, and we're coming to you from the 35th Annual Taste of Chicago.

• 3:03Dan Pashman?

  That was really good. Well done. Joining me now is a Chicago food legend. For 13 years, he ran a place called Hot Doug's, which was famous for its unique sausages, from rattlesnake sausage to duck sausage with truffle aioli and so much more. Then last spring, Doug announced he was closing up shop. He was ready for something new. People went berserk. Over the last few months before Hot Doug's closed, the lines got longer and longer. A certain hysteria took hold. People were camping out. And in October, Hot Doug's finally closed its doors. So will we ever get to try his delicious sausage concoctions again? Please welcome the man behind Hot Doug's, Doug Soan.

• 3:53Dan Pashman?

  So, the last time I saw you, Doug, it was last summer. You had announced that you were closing down. The hysteria was ramping up. And for people who want to get a little bit of a feel for that, there's a Sporkful episode from last summer called Hot Dogs and Hot Doug's. When I waited in line, I interviewed customers, I talked to you. It's in the feed from last summer, so you can get a real feel for that. But I want to kind of catch people up, and I want to first hear about those last couple days.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Those last few days were insane. There's no doubt about it. It was actually, I would always park on Roscoe and walk down the street, and there might be one or two people before I came in. Every time I showed up, it was like a block and a half long, so I started going around the other way. So I could just kind of, just a little bit, avoid the hysteria to get the day started.

• 4:40Dan Pashman?

  How long were people waiting in line?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  I would say the last week, probably the average was like five or six hours.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:49Dan Pashman?

  Is there any sausage experience that can make that worth it?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, but it's any experience. I mean, it's up to, it's up to the person experiencing that. I mean...

• 5:03Dan Pashman?

  Take me back to the moment when you locked up the doors for the last time. How did that feel?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  How did that feel? It felt, I gotta be honest, I was just so exhausted that it really didn't, really didn't hit me for, you know, for like a couple of weeks later. I mean, just, you know, people would sort of forget that I actually had a business to run those last four or five months, and just getting something on the menu each day became, you know, this not struggle, but, but, but, but a completely different operation. You know, I've been doing this for a long time, and now it was four times busier than it had ever been. And so that took its toll. Um, it was melancholy, it was satisfying, it was, you know, I never felt regret by, by any stretch of the imagination. And in

• 5:53Speaker 02

  some ways, it was just, for me, sort of this, this last chapter of this perfect story.

• 6:01Dan Pashman?

  What do you miss about it, and what do you not miss at all?

• 6:04Speaker 02

  I miss a few things. I miss the customers, mostly. I miss the interaction with the customer. Um, that was my favorite part of the job. I miss the food. I forgot if, really didn't think it through that if I close, oh, I don't get my food either. That, yeah, I should have thought about that just a little bit more. Um, I don't miss the day-to-day operation of running a restaurant. Things breaking, things not showing up, the day-to-day grind, pun intended, of running a restaurant. I don't miss that.

• 6:36Dan Pashman?

  Even before you announced that you were closing, you had turned down million-dollar offers to expand Hot Dugs.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  That is true.

• 6:43Dan Pashman?

  Now, I would imagine that when the hysteria really hit, the offers got even crazier. So like, without naming names, like, what was the most unbelievable offer that you got?

• 6:55Speaker 02

  My favorite offer, a gentleman came up to the counter and said, "I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse." And my response was, "Apparently, you've never met me, because that actually is my job, is refusing offers." And he said, "One million dollars." And I, to which I responded, "Add, you know, add a zero and, and we'll start, I'll take the meeting." And his response was, "A hundred million dollars?" To which I responded, "You're no longer my accountant." But that, but yes, if that's the offer, then yes, we don't need a meeting, just, just write the check. Uh, but there was never anything that, like, so out of, out of, uh, you know, so strange that it made me contemplate anything.

• 7:36Dan Pashman?

  But you had people walking up to you in, to the counter of your restaurant and offering you a million dollars?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:42Dan Pashman?

  Because that doesn't happen to a lot of people.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:44Dan Pashman?

  It's not a normal thing.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  No, apparently, I guess not. Apparently, he was stunned at, he's, I was like, "No." And he looked at me, he's like, "It's not life-changing, and it really isn't." You know, if, if it was enough that I never had to work a day again the rest of my life, sure, I mean, I can be bought, it's just I'm not cheap, apparently.

• 8:01Dan Pashman?

  So, let's segue now to the present. You turn down million-dollar offers, and instead, you're starting a podcast. As someone who's been hosting a podcast for over five years, I have to say, "Are you sure you did the math on this? Are you sure you don't want to open any more restaurants?"

• 8:19Speaker 02

  No, no, we're, we're good. No, the podcast, it, it, uh, it's great, it's, it's fun to do, you like doing it, I'm sure.

• 8:27Dan Pashman?

  I do love it, but no one's walked up to me and offered me a million dollars yet.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, not yet. You never know, I mean, it took me a while, you know, till people offered, made that offer. Um, it's a great creative outlet, it's fun to do, it's something I hadn't done before, and it's, I just have a great time doing it.

• 8:42Dan Pashman?

  And the podcast is called "The Untitled Hour with Hot Doug and The Hitmaker."

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Exactly, we're on the Radio Misfits Podcast Network.

• 8:49Dan Pashman?

  And it's really just you guys hanging out and talking about whatever you're interested in?

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Exactly right.

• 8:54Dan Pashman?

  Which is not always food, sometimes it's chainsaw carved totem poles.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Exactly, and it's actually usually not food. Every once in a while, it slips in, but for the most part, it's, it, exactly right, it's subjects that interest us, um, that we, that, uh, The Hitmaker and I like to chit-chat about.

• 9:06Dan Pashman?

  One of the things that made a lot of news recently, for people who are missing your, your food, is that you have created, custom-created, three new sausages to be sold at Wrigley Field.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  That is correct.

• 9:18Dan Pashman?

  Home of the Chicago Cubs.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:20Dan Pashman?

  Yes, you can cheer for that, it's very exciting news.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  It's the Cubs, come on!

• 9:23Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. Um...

• 9:26Dan Pashman?

  And apparently they're gonna be rotating, right?

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:29Dan Pashman?

  Okay, so the first three, the Dave Kingman.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:33Dan Pashman?

  And they're named after some of your favorite Cub players.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  Exactly right. Yeah, that was part of the negotiation was I get to name them.

• 9:38Dan Pashman?

  Okay. Dave Kingman is a bacon cheeseburger sausage with cola barbecue sauce and sharp cheddar cheese.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 9:45Dan Pashman?

  Now, Dave Kingman, the player, was known as an all or nothing player. He had a lot of home runs and he struck out a lot.

• 9:53Dan Pashman?

  How does that relate to this sausage?

• 9:55Speaker 02

  I just really like Dave Kingman. There's really no direct, direct relationship between the two.

• 10:00Dan Pashman?

  But so was there any, is there any correlation between the player you named each sausage after and the food itself?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Not at all. It's really, I like the sausage, I like the name. And you gotta call him something.

• 10:11Dan Pashman?

  And we got one named after Rick Russell, who is also nicknamed Big Daddy.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  Exactly, my all-time favorite Cub.

• 10:16Dan Pashman?

  Why?

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Honestly, well, he was playing right in my wheelhouse when I started to really follow, truly follow baseball and, and in particular the Cubs. And I always love the fact that a guy built like that could be a dominating athlete. I could relate to that body type. You know, like basketball players, most football players, like no. But Rick Russell? Absolutely. It's like, oh, I could aspire to be, you know, that. And that was it. And he was like, he was their best player when I still really started loving the Cubs.

• 10:49Dan Pashman?

  And now you got the next best thing to being a star pitcher for the Cubs, you have your sausages featured at the Cubs.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Exactly right. And I get a little pass, I get to go in anytime I want.

• 10:57Dan Pashman?

  Whoa!

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 10:59Dan Pashman?

  That might be better than a million dollars.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  It bet. Thank you. See, I was holding out for the right offer.

• 11:04Dan Pashman?

  The Rick Russell is an atomic sausage with Chipotle mustard and pepper jack cheese. Can I pitch you on a couple of other sausages?

• 11:11Speaker 02

  By the way, I see what you did there.

• 11:12Dan Pashman?

  What?

• 11:13Speaker 02

  The pitch you.

• 11:14Dan Pashman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, see? I'm here for you. No problem.

• 11:16Dan Pashman?

  They write themselves.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yes, hit me with it.

• 11:19Dan Pashman?

  I want one named after Steve Goodman.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Now, you did, no, I don't, do you know the, the connection, Steve Goodman? And I can't remember how many people know that.

• 11:29Dan Pashman?

  Well, Steve Goodman, not a player, he's a singer-songwriter from the 70s and early 80s.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 11:32Dan Pashman?

  Grew up in Chicago, he wrote "Go Cubs Go" and "Dying Cub Fans Last Request."

• 11:36Speaker 02

  That is true.

• 11:37Dan Pashman?

  Um, and he never lived to see the Cubs play a playoff game. He was supposed to sing the National Anthem at the first playoff game in 1984, but died at a very, very young age.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  That summer, yeah.

• 11:47Dan Pashman?

  Right before that game, um, so his friend Jimmy Buffett filled in and sang the National Anthem in his stead. How's that?

• 11:53Speaker 02

  That's pretty great. There's one, did you, do you know that he's also my stepbrother?

• 11:56Dan Pashman?

  Are you serious?

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. How about that? We're revealing this, uh, little-known fact. Yeah, my mom married his dad when I was like nine years old.

• 12:04Dan Pashman?

  Tell me about him.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  He was awesome. It was great. One of the truly like, like, great moments in my life is sitting at the Chicago Recording Studio, and so I was probably in high school, like 16, 17 years old, watching Steve and John Prine and all these players recording albums.

• 12:22Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Like, you know, till my parents were gray, like, you know, midnight, 1 o'clock in the morning, hypnotized, sitting on the sofa in the control room, watching like this magic happening before me.

• 12:33Dan Pashman?

  Ah.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  So, yeah, so, yeah, no, we used to, I mean, we weren't, there was a big age difference, we weren't super close, but yeah, no, we, we hung out a lot.

• 12:41Dan Pashman?

  Well, that's amazing. Well, so you, then you have a very good reason to name one after Steve.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Absolutely. We'll sneak one in there.

• 12:46Dan Pashman?

  Two more quick ones I want to pitch you on before we go, before you go.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 12:48Dan Pashman?

  Antonio Alfonseca, he was a relief pitcher for a short time with the Cubs.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  And has six fingers on each hand.

• 12:54Dan Pashman?

  And, that's right.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Again, you think you got some rube up here? I know what's going on.

• 12:57Dan Pashman?

  And do you, because of his extra finger, do you know what his nickname was?

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Oh, you might have me there.

• 13:02Dan Pashman?

  His nickname was Pulpo, which is Spanish for octopus.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 13:05Dan Pashman?

  So, so, octopus sausage.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  We, well.

• 13:08Dan Pashman?

  For Alfonseca.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And, you know, at some point here, I do have to sell something, but that's all right.

• 13:12Dan Pashman?

  And finally, I think there should be one called the Mark Pryor, and that would be a sausage where like, the first two bites are amazing, and then the whole thing disintegrates into broken dreams.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Exactly, and then, and then, like, and then, like, years later, we just have a simulated hot dog that kind of really just fails as well.

• 13:29Dan Pashman?

  All right. Doug Stone, formerly of Hot Doug's, his new podcast is called The Untitled Hour with Hot Doug and the Hitmaker, it's available now, go take a listen. Big hand for Doug Stone.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Thank you, enjoy the taste. Dan, thank you so much.

• 13:43Dan Pashman?

  Coming up, our live show from Chicago continues. I'll ask one of the top chefs in the world to tell me his favorite candy bar. But first, oh, man, I still just can't believe that Hot Doug is related to Steve Goodman. I just really, really love Steve Goodman. He also wrote "City of New Orleans," which was recorded by Willie Nelson, among others, and "You Never Even Call Me By My Name," which was made famous by David Allen Coe. Steve Goodman passed away at age 36. He died of leukemia back in 1984. And as we go to break, let's listen to a little of his classic Chicago song, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request." It's a song he wrote toward the end of his life, and it's just about one of the saddest, funniest songs you'll ever hear.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, and I'll be ready to die.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  Build a big fire on home plate out of your Louisville Slugger baseball bats and toss my coffin in. Let my ashes blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  And when my last remains go flying over the left field wall, we'll bid the bleacher bums adieu.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  And I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  The dying man's friends told him to cut it out. And he said, "Stop it, that's an awful shame." He whispered, "Don't cry, we'll meet by and by, near the heavenly Hall of Fame." He said, "I've got season's tickets to watch the Angels now, so it's just what I'm gonna do."

• 15:32Speaker 03

  He said, "But you, the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs, so it's me to feel sorry for you."

• 15:41Speaker 04

  And he said, "Oh, play that lonesome Loser's tune." "That's the one I like the best."

• 15:48Speaker 04

  Closed his eyes and slipped away. "Well, Scotty, it was the dying Cub fans' last request, so here it is." "Do they still play the blues in Chicago? When baseball season rolls around? When the snow melts away? Do the Cubbies still play in their ivory covers bear your ground? When I was a boy, they were my pride and joy. But now they only bring fatigue To the home of the brave, The land of the free and the torments From the National League."

• 16:44Speaker 05

  Time to cook up some advertisements.

• 16:48Dan Pashman?

  When you're cooking, ingredients matter, right? You use higher-quality ingredients, you usually get better results. And if you're listening to this show, you're probably the kind of person who puts some thought and effort into your ingredients. But ingredients don't just matter with food. They also matter with laundry detergent. Of course, the cleaning job needs to get done. The odors and stains have to be tackled. And I want to feel good about the detergent and the ingredients in it. Because remember, whatever's in your laundry detergent is essentially in your clothes. And then you're putting those clothes on, you want good stuff in there. And All Free Clear uses only essential ingredients. It's 100% free from dyes, perfumes, parabens, and irritating residues. Check out the label and see for yourself. It lists all the ingredients and what they do. We've been using it in my house. We're very happy with it. And let me tell you, family of four, two teenagers, we do a lot of laundry.

• 17:33Dan Pashman?

  So we have put All Free Clear to the test. It's a powerful clean that you can feel good about. All Free Clear is the number-one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin. When it comes to laundry detergent, the choice is clear. All Free Clear. Pick up a bottle for your next laundry day. Last year, right around this time, I got a new jacket from Quince, a lightweight fall jacket, and it has turned into my favorite jacket. And this is why you need a lightweight jacket, and probably a new one because it's time to freshen up your look. You need a lightweight jacket from Quince because the beauty of a lightweight jacket is you can wear it in the early fall, you can wear it in the early spring, but also it goes over a sweater, over a sweatshirt. And then suddenly, your lightweight jacket is a great accessory for pretty much the whole winter.

• 18:17Dan Pashman?

  Bottom line, when the temperatures start to drop, Quince makes it easy to build on those everyday staples with versatile layers designed to keep you warm and comfortable all season long. They make elevated everyday essentials using premium materials and designs that are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. So find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was the Sporkful. It's the best way to support the show.

• 18:53Speaker 05

  No two businesses run the same, so banking for your business shouldn't be one size fits all. That's why Atlantic Union Bank offers knowledgeable guidance and tailored solutions designed around your goals. Whether you're managing cash flow, moving money, or protecting your business from fraud, we make banking for your business both personal and easy. Call, visit us online at atlanticunionbank.com, or stop by one of our local branches today. Atlantic Union Bank, any way you bank.

• 19:28Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to another Sporkful reheat. I'm Dan Pashman. Hey, if you want to hear what I'm eating and reading every week, you should sign up for the Sporkful newsletter. I'll give you my weekly recommendations, and so do our producers and the whole rest of our team. We also share announcements about exciting things happening with the show, when there's special discounts on my pastas. And on top of all that, if you subscribe to the newsletter, you're automatically entered into giveaways for cookbooks featured on the show, as long as you live in the US or Canada. There's literally no downside. Sign up right now at sporkful.com/newsletter. I promise we won't spam you. We're only going to send you really good stuff. Again, that's sporkful.com/newsletter. Thanks. Now, let's get back to the Sporkful live onstage at the Taste of Chicago. All right, along, excellent.

• 20:09Dan Pashman?

  There's an old saying that if it isn't hard, it's not worth doing. From a young age, Curtis Duffy set out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world. Over the years, he sacrificed almost everything to make it happen, including his marriage. He's now the chef and owner of Grace, right here in Chicago, one of only 12 restaurants in the whole country that has three Michelin stars. I love, by the way, that here on the Sporkful, we're segueing from Hot Doug to Grace, one of the best restaurants in the country. We cover it all here. Curtis Duffy is the subject of a documentary by Chicago Tribune food writer Kevin Pang. The film is called For Grace. Please welcome Kevin Pang and chef Curtis Duffy.

• 20:49Dan Pashman?

  So, Kevin, I'll start with you. You're best known as a writer, and in particular, a food writer. How did you end up making a film?

• 21:02Speaker 06

  That is a very good question. I don't know anything about filmmaking. I studied broadcast journalism at college, at USC, and I only stopped studying broadcast journalism when someone said, "Oh, you don't even have the face for radio." And I thought, wow, what a terrible thing to say. I did a TV show like six, seven years ago, where I just went around the city and ate cheeseburgers for an entire year, essentially. And so, after that was done, I wanted to do something a little bit more proper, a little bit more mature, more grown up. I was trying to look for some short film project, maybe 15 or 20 minutes. And then I knew about Curtis, and I invited him out to lunch in Chinatown, in fact, and

• 21:46Speaker 06

  we were just talking about, you know, the idea of creating a dish. That was the original conceit, was I wanted to make a short film about how a chef of his caliber creates a dish, and how, and sort of the mind processes of that. And it was at that point where he told me, you know what, I'm also leaving Avenues, which was the name of this prior restaurant, and I'm going to be opening up my own restaurant. And I thought, hmm, perhaps I should ask him if we can follow him around for a few months as he builds this restaurant. And a few months only... What, lasted four years? In the end?

• 22:21Dan Pashman?

  Four years later, you had a full-length movie.

• 22:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, four years later, we had a documentary, exactly.

• 22:25Dan Pashman?

  Which is, by the way, it debuted at South by Southwest. It's been playing at festivals all around the country to rave reviews. And one of the recurring themes in the film is the sacrifice that you have to make to become one of the top chefs in the world, and how all-consuming it's been for you, Curtis. There's just not room for other things in your life. And so I wanted to kind of test that thesis statement of the film a little bit with a couple of, with a little pop quiz for you.

• 22:51Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 22:51Dan Pashman?

  Let's see how all-consuming your work at your restaurant is. What's the last movie you saw in the theater?

• 22:59Speaker 07

  For Grace.

• 23:01Speaker 06

  Great answer.

• 23:02Dan Pashman?

  Good answer. What about before that?

• 23:05Speaker 07

  Wow. I don't know. Honestly, I don't remember.

• 23:09Dan Pashman?

  Right, because you're working.

• 23:10Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 23:11Dan Pashman?

  Right. How are the Cubs doing this year?

• 23:14Speaker 07

  No idea. Let me ask Doug, where is he?

• 23:18Dan Pashman?

  Who is the President of the United States?

• 23:20Speaker 07

  Uh, I don't know.

• 23:23Speaker 07

  Kennedy? No.

• 23:25Dan Pashman?

  So suffice it to say, you're very focused on the task at hand, and that's one of the things in the film, and I love watching the building of the restaurant and some of the details that are so important to you. And we talk so much about details here on this porkful. You get into the details of furnishing the restaurant. You were obsessed with having a certain kind of tablecloth. What kind of tablecloth and why?

• 23:46Speaker 07

  Well, originally, it was supposed to kind of wrap underneath the table so it would expose the leg going down to the floor so it looked like a beautiful raindrop when it hits the ground and then it kind of explodes back up. I wanted that moment. Unfortunately, we weren't able to find somebody to make those tablecloths. So we're still searching that. It's actually still on the drawing board for us.

• 24:09Speaker 06

  Just to give you a sense of the type of obsession that these guys, these guys were finding chairs that were originally, well, the one at the restaurant now, it originally costs $2,300 per chair. And they negotiated that down to $1,000 per chair. That, this is the discount price. And so after you buy 100, the, just the chair furnishing alone costs $100,000, which is completely nuts.

• 24:36Dan Pashman?

  So Curtis, what was it about these chairs?

• 24:39Speaker 07

  It was everything. Everything that we made, everything that we decided to put into the restaurant was for the guest. It was about giving the best experience possible, and that starts with the materials at hand. Everything that you're gonna sit down for two and a half hour, a dining experience, everything has to be luxurious, including the linen, including the chairs, the bathrooms, whatever it was.

• 25:03Speaker 06

  And I have to say, those chairs are the most comfortable chairs I've ever sat on. So, if you don't like food-

• 25:09Speaker 07

  They should be for that price.

• 25:10Speaker 06

  Yeah. Go to the restaurant just to sit at those chairs. You don't have to, just order the house salad.

• 25:14Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 25:15Speaker 06

  You have that, right, at the restaurant?

• 25:16Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yes, we do.

• 25:19Dan Pashman?

  Has, uh, has anyone ever spilled something on one of the chairs?

• 25:22Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yes, they have. It's fine, you know, we, we take great care in cleaning them, but, um, we've had a few that are ruined already, so.

• 25:30Speaker 06

  Wasn't there a story about a certain lady who had some tanning, um-

• 25:35Speaker 07

  She came in with tanning lotion on and sat in the chair for two and a half, three hours, and left, and you can imagine what that did to the leather chairs. Her nice, beautiful butt print on it. And her legs, and then, there's no way of getting it cleaned. We couldn't clean it for anything.

• 25:53Dan Pashman?

  So, what'd you do with the chair?

• 25:54Speaker 07

  It's an employee lounge. Thousand dollar employee chair lounge.

• 25:59Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, with, with someone's butt print on it.

• 26:01Speaker 07

  Exactly.

• 26:02Dan Pashman?

  Because, I mean, I just got new chairs in my living room, and they did not cost a thousand dollars each, but I already won't let my kids bring juice in there.

• 26:09Speaker 07

  Of course.

• 26:10Dan Pashman?

  So, I don't know how you stand it. It would drive me crazy. Coming up, Curtis and I talk about the lessons he took from his parents and the personal sacrifices he's made in order to build his culinary career. That's coming up, stick around.

• 26:27Dan Pashman?

  Hope you're hungry, because it's time for some ads.

• 26:32Speaker 08

  Who's ready for a bike ride? Peppa Pig is learning to ride her bike. First, pop on her helmet. Safety first. Then, attach the push stick and give her bike a push. And watch Peppa paddle. Her legs go round and round as the wheels turn. With more than 75 sounds and phrases, every ride is a big adventure. Peppa Pig Ready, Paddle, Go. Available at all major retailers now.

• 27:01Speaker 09

  Looking for your lucky side? You'll find it at Lucky Land Casino. It's your ultimate spot for fun. No app needed. Just jump right into your browser. Spin for free gold coins or collect free sweeps coins for a chance to win prizes. Plus, score daily login rewards every single day. Ready to meet your lucky side? Head to luckylandcasino.com right now. Your first surprise is waiting. Lucky Land Casino, where the magic happens. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Void where prohibited by law. CT&Cs 21+..

• 27:36Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. Now, back to my conversation with chef Curtis Duffy and food writer Kevin Pang.

• 27:44Dan Pashman?

  The turning point in the film comes when we learn of a real tragedy that took place in your life, Curtis. We don't need to get into all the details of it here because it's handled very powerfully in the film and we have sort of PG crowd here. But suffice it to say that even before that tragedy, you had a rough go of it growing up. What role did that play in your setting out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world?

• 28:09Speaker 07

  I think one of the greatest things that my parents gave me was work ethics. Because I watched them struggle going through job after job, working two or three jobs at a time just to put food on the table. And I think taking that from them and having that focus and dedication and knowing that's not the way that I wanted to live drove me and put me in a position where I wanted to be and where I needed to be.

• 28:32Dan Pashman?

  And I mean, you talk openly in the film about how your devotion to your work probably was a big part in breaking up your marriage. Are there days that you've questioned whether it was worth it?

• 28:43Speaker 07

  I think everything happens for a reason.

• 28:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, I think it was worth it. Absolutely.

• 28:52Dan Pashman?

  And, I mean, you're... On one hand, like, I'm so inspired by the fact that you set such high goals for yourself. You say, "I want this to be the best restaurant in the country, period." But on the other hand, like, that's such a hard thing to accomplish. I mean, you're already one of 12 in the country with three Michelin stars. That's an extraordinary accomplishment. Do you think you could ever get to a point where you would feel like, have some part of you that would put your feet up and be like, "I made it. I did it"?

• 29:19Speaker 07

  No. No, because I feel like we're always in a place where we can always refine, we can always be better in everything that we do, in every aspect of our lives. And that even leads to like, my personal side, right? I sacrificed so much on my personal side to make greatness in what I do in the food world. Now it's time to learn to let go a little bit on the professional side, so I can have a little bit more stability in my personal life.

• 29:46Dan Pashman?

  We've got to wrap up, but I want to finish on a little bit of a lighter note here. Curtis, it can't be African blue basil all the time. What are some of your food guilty pleasures?

• 29:59Speaker 07

  Oh, wow. Purple basil?

• 30:02Speaker 06

  Oh, what a chefy answer.

• 30:05Dan Pashman?

  Like, do you like bugles or like Twix bars?

• 30:09Speaker 07

  I love... I'm a candy guy. I love Twizzlers and Whoppers and anything sweet. I love pizza. You know, I love everything. I'm a foodie, so...

• 30:17Dan Pashman?

  And Kevin, I know you're a big fan of Hot Doug's. I know you're a big admirer of Curtis's work at Grace. Is there a fusion dish between the sausages at Hot Doug's and the food at Grace that you might be able to envision in your wildest dreams that could like, cause the entire Chicago restaurant scene to fold in upon itself and disintegrate?

• 30:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, we're talking about folding onto itself, like, and breaking the space-time continuum. Okay, so let me just work this out in my head.

• 30:44Dan Pashman?

  And you have 30 seconds. Go.

• 30:45Speaker 06

  Okay, 30 seconds. Curtis's food is really sort of like, multi-dimensional, very architectural. There's a narrative arc, so there's like, time factor involved. Hot Doug's is about stuffing your face with foie gras and sausage and very visceral things. So, how about if you're able to serve me a foie gras duck sauteed hot dog yesterday?

• 31:09Dan Pashman?

  Nice. Curtis, get to work. I'm on it. I'm on it. All right, guys. The film is called For Grace. It's at various film festivals. It'll be available streaming soon. Keep in touch with the film and figure out where you can see it at forgracefilm.com. Big hand for Kevin Pang and chef Curtis Duffy.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  When I first met you, babe, you fed me on chicken and wine.

• 31:44Speaker 04

  It was steak and potatoes. And babe, I sure felt fine.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  But now all you give me is the seaweed and the alfalfa sprout and sunflower seeds, and I got my dime. And babe, you left me here with the chicken cordon bleu.

• 32:11Dan Pashman?

  So that's part one of our live show from Chicago. One quick note about Hot Doug's. Two of Doug's former cooks have opened up their own place in Chicago with Doug's blessing. It's called Hot G Dog's. It's in Uptown. And they have a lot of the same food that they had at Hot Doug's. The scoop from the trib's Kevin Pang is it's not quite as good as Hot Doug's, but it's still really good. This show is a production of WNYC and The Sporkful. It's produced by Anne Sann and me. We got production help in Chicago from Maya Goldberg-Safer and in New York from Tim Ruggieri. Special thanks to Paula Schuman and thanks to everyone at The Taste of Chicago, especially Mary Slowick, Mary May, Alex Hawley, and Ed Silla. Let's go out with a little more Steve Goodman. This is Chicken Cordon Bleu. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 32:52Speaker 10

  I'm Jamie Edelman from Las Vegas, Nevada, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Don't you see that old dog standing out in the street? With a big smile on his face because they let him eat meat. And I got you. And I got the chicken. I got you.

• 33:21Speaker 04

  And I got the chicken. Where are the cords? And I got the

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Chicken!

• 33:27Speaker 04

  Cordon bleu.

• 33:42Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app, all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful.

• 34:27Dan Pashman?

  Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.