Pod Insights The Sporkful A Rare Look Inside Food At Disney World About this episode Years ago, when Dan was at Disney World with his family, he saw a gumbo recipe on the wall in the queue for Tiana’s Bayou Adventure. Since then, he’s wondered: Is the recipe real? Where did it come from?
Transcript 7,801 words · 16 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:15 Dan Pashman? This song is so iconic. All you need is the song.
1:23 Dan Pashman? I do worry a little bit about the sanity of the people who have to work here. I gotta be honest.
1:30 Dan Pashman? This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Quick reminder that our Boston live show is next week. My guests will include Matt Shearer, aka Reporter Matt, and Ian Cos from GBH. The show's almost sold out, so you better get on it quick. Details and tickets at sporkful.com/live. All right, here we go. My family, we're big Disney fans. We've been lucky enough to go to Disney World a couple of times over the years. And I always love the way Disney creates whole universes. They put thought into every detail, even the trashcans. Almost every one is different, painted to be part of its surroundings. The rides and attractions, I mean, yeah, of course, they're fun.
2:14 Dan Pashman? But also, they each tell a story, often building on a story from a movie, taking it in new directions. And food is one key way that they do all that. The first time I rode Tiana's Bayou Adventure, the ride that used to be Splash Mountain, I saw that food is a theme throughout, which makes sense, Tiana's a chef. But when I was in the queue, I noticed a gumbo recipe on the wall in a frame. It felt so specific. I wanted to know more about that recipe. Is it a real recipe? If you follow it, will you get gumbo? If so, whose recipe is it? So when the folks at Disney reached out and offered me a rare, behind-the-scenes look at how the magic across their parks is made, it did not take me long to say yes. One quick note, Disney did cover part of my family's trip there, including providing free tickets into the parks.
2:59 Dan Pashman? But Disney did not have any say in the content of this episode itself. Okay, when I got to Disney World, I had a few stops to make before I got to Tiana's. Up first...
3:12 Dan Pashman? All right, you get the idea. I've seen the original Star Wars trilogy a lot. I'm not one of those, like, super hardcore fans. I haven't seen all the spinoffs. I'm aware that there's a creature called Grogu who looks like Yoda, but I don't know what Grogu's deal is. Still, when it comes to those first three movies, I know pretty much every line. And the first time I went to Galaxy's Edge, the Star Wars part of Disney World, I felt like I was in those movies that I grew up with.
3:37 Speaker 01 Someone loves Star Wars more than anything in the world, and all they've wanted to do is pilot the Millennium Falcon. We have that here. And like, people cry getting on that ride because it's wish fulfillment from when they were like, five years old, to now they're big and grown and have kids of their own. But they get back to that moment.
3:54 Dan Pashman? This is Thomas Niederhiser. He's a senior creative producer at Walt Disney Imagineering. Imagineers are the people behind the rides, the restaurants, and almost everything else you see at Disney parks. They're in charge of design and development, but also storytelling and innovation.
4:09 Speaker 01 For me, it's like no more humbling work. When people are coming to this space and you're like, yeah, they're gonna experience joy in every type of form, from parade to pretzel.
4:19 Dan Pashman? Thomas and I meet up at Oga's Cantina, which was inspired by the intergalactic dive bar in the first Star Wars movie. The Cantina in Star Wars is on the planet Tatooine. This one is on Batu, a world created specifically for the theme park. It's not in any of the movies. That's an example of how Disney parks don't just replicate something from a film, they expand the story. I'm sure the people who designed this space studied the original Cantina meticulously, and it shows. But in order to give you the feeling that you're really there, they had to do more than that. Because there's not much in that famous scene that tells you what people in this bar are actually drinking. One of the only clues we have about what anyone in this galaxy might drink is that early in Star Wars, when Luke is at home, he takes a sip of something that looks like Blue Milk. Like Stephanie, let's talk for a minute about Blue Milk.
5:04 Dan Pashman? Because that only appears for a split second, really, in the original Star Wars movie. This is Stephanie Dole, Disney Beverage Director. She explains that early in the development of pretty much anything new at Disney, there's an intensive brainstorming period called the Blue Sky Process. During this phase, sky's the limit. People can throw out any ideas for everything from the decor, to the rides, to the food and drink. And they gave the Blue Sky treatment to Blue Milk.
5:27 Speaker 02 At one point, we had thought, is it more tropical? Is it pineapples? We've gone through all the different flavors, strawberry, chocolate milk, all the things that you can get out there in the real world today. But it was just, how do we take something that's very relatable and sweeten it up a bit?
5:42 Dan Pashman? How would you describe the flavor profile of Blue Milk? What you landed on, Stephanie?
5:46 Speaker 02 I'd say it's a thicker consistency of a regular milk with the over-essence of vanilla. That helps bring that core memory back to maybe a thinner ice cream. Do you remember when you were a child and maybe you had that bowl of ice cream in front of you, but you would let it melt with maybe some of those sprinkles on top of it?
6:06 Dan Pashman? Right.
6:07 Speaker 02 That, to me, is what Blue Milk is, right? And so...
6:10 Dan Pashman? Blue Milk is non-dairy. It's made with a combination of coconut and rice milks. As we talk, a tray of drinks arrives, including a glass of Blue Milk. I've had it before, but I'm happy to have another taste. It's so funny, but like, there's a perception thing, as you know, like the color of a drink.
6:26 Speaker 02 It's blue.
6:26 Dan Pashman? Right, but the color of any drink, like, I'm sure it's something you think about in every single drink that you design, is what's the color gonna be? It's such an important part of the perception of a drink. And when I first touched it to my lips, I was like... It does taste kinda blue.
6:42 Dan Pashman? The blue milk has little icy bits that give it a slushy vibe, making it the kinda drink you're more likely to want on a 90-degree day. My favorite detail of all, when they were trying to decide exactly what shade of blue the milk should be, they even considered the fact that there would be condensation on the cup, which would dull the color, so they made the drink extra bright to account for that. They really do think of everything. Now there are more drinks to try, like the Corellian Spike Cold Brew with purple ube foam. First sip? Oh. What's that other flavor? Hmm.
7:15 Speaker 02 Maybe a little strong, a little morning pick-me-up.
7:18 Dan Pashman? Yeah, you know, there's caffeine in here. I like that.
7:20 Speaker 02 There's some caffeine.
7:21 Dan Pashman? Yeah.
7:22 Speaker 02 You get a little bit of the, you might get a hint of the bourbon that's in that as well.
7:26 Dan Pashman? Oh, that's what it is.
7:29 Dan Pashman? I'm like, what else is in here besides coffee? You're like, maybe it's just, it's bourbon. Yes, I forgot this was an alcoholic drink. Got it, that's what it is.
7:39 Dan Pashman? It's 8:30 in the morning, we're in the cantina having bourbon, okay. I'm just gonna have a sip of the foam. Hmm. What I love about this drink, Stephanie, is that I can tell that you, I'm speaking now as a parent who has come through these parks with my kids when they're little and when they're a little older.
7:58 Dan Pashman? This is the drink. It's 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon, the kids are a little overheated, it's 85 degrees outside, and you know, you're having a great time, but you're also like, everyone's flagging an energy a little bit. You can tell the kids are on the precipice of a meltdown, and you come into a place and it's air-conditioned, and you sit down, and then as the parent, you get yourself a cold brew with a shot of bourbon in it. And it just sets you right. You're like, okay, we can make it till the park closes now.
8:30 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's the afternoon refresher, right?
8:33 Dan Pashman? I'm not sure how much ube I taste in the foam on top, but putting purple foam on something that looks like an iced coffee definitely adds to the otherworldly vibe, as does the Buzz Button Tingling Foam in a sweet fruity cocktail called the Fuzzy Tonton. Oh, now my tongue is really tingling. I like that. It's like a Szechuan peppercorn type vibe, yeah. It takes a second, yeah. What creates the tingling?
8:56 Speaker 02 So it's actually a flower and it gets broken down and created into a foam. If you've ever been in the cantina and you see the bubbling foam in the back bar area, that's what they're using to top on that beverage.
9:08 Dan Pashman? Got it. All right, I'm gonna try one of those.
9:11 Dan Pashman? The menu at the cantina includes some snacks, but it's mainly meant to be a bar with non-alcoholic drinks too, of course. That said, none of these beverages are actually in Star Wars. So when you're building a world based off the movies, how do you know what belongs in it? I mean, I sort of think there are no limits, right? This is a bar where a creature that looks like a mini blue elephant is playing a keyboard. Anything's possible. But as Thomas, the Imagineer you heard earlier, told me, it turns out there are rules. And the keepers of those rules work in Lucasfilm's Star Wars Canon Department. Yes, there is a Canon Department, and I would love to see the resumes that come in when a job there opens up.
9:50 Speaker 01 So the Imagineering team that worked on this space and the land and the attractions and part of Star Wars Galaxy's Edge were with Lucasfilm in the trenches all day, every day, making sure that everything fit canonically as the canon of Star Wars is expanding in every possible way between the movies, the books, the comic books, the video games. All of that has to connect because we're gonna have fans and guests that know those tiny details. And so we always need to be up on it, too.
10:18 Speaker 02 They're our best friends when it comes to creation. I can recall a time I had made a beverage for part of the franchise for Star Wars, and I had named it something, and they said that absolutely could never happen.
10:28 Dan Pashman? What was it? What did you want to name it?
10:30 Speaker 02 Ah, I can't, I can't divulge that. But I can tell you that...
10:34 Dan Pashman? Can you tell me why they said that it wouldn't be, it wouldn't work?
10:37 Speaker 02 Because it wouldn't be on this planet. And so if it wouldn't be on the planet of Batu, it couldn't be. So we had to rework that beverage to make it fit into the storyline. And everything that you've seen and tasted today has gone through that process. So if you think even the lightest things such as the cold brew or the Akavanti, all of that has to go back to franchise. We get their approval on the flavor profile, the taste of it, the naming of the beverage before it ever hits the planet Batu.
11:06 Dan Pashman? Presumably, like, did they have cold brew coffee on Batu? Like, we're all playing with certain, you know, the willing suspension of disbelief here.
11:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
11:14 Dan Pashman? So like, why is it okay to have cold brew but not okay to have a certain name?
11:18 Speaker 02 I think it's because it's the reality of what a guest needs in the daytime versus the theming and the storytelling and trying to bring that together. And really proving you have these guests in this part. We need the cold brew.
11:29 Dan Pashman? Right.
11:30 Speaker 02 Help us develop the storyline to get it to make it fit.
11:41 Dan Pashman? Now that I've had a couple of drinks, I'm getting hungry. So I head to Toy Story Land to get some food at Roundup Rodeo. The restaurant itself is a scene that could be in Toy Story. It's taking place in Andy's backyard where he's playing rodeo with his toys. And all the toys in the place are huge because you're the size of a toy.
11:59 Speaker 03 And so the idea behind this is really that the guests can come in here and be part of that rodeo experience, become a toy, live as a toy and enjoy Andy's story.
12:09 Dan Pashman? This is Disney Imagineer Ben Van Busekam, the creative director for Roundup Rodeo. He led the process to come up with this concept, which involved a lot more of those blue sky sessions. The job of developing a restaurant around the concept belonged to Chef Brian Pisecki. He runs the Flavor Lab, which creates menus for many of the eateries in the parks. When Ben told Chef Brian that the story of the restaurant would take place in a backyard, Brian quickly zeroed in on classic backyard fare, barbecue. But he says that's just the beginning of the process.
12:38 Speaker 04 So some of the things that we went back to the movies to look for or didn't find and then would ask Ben is like, where does the family live? What's the, if we're going to do a backyard cookout, what's the region? How do we theme the food to where he lives?
12:57 Dan Pashman? Of course, the restaurant would also need drinks. Just then, the drink I ordered arrives. It's still not even 10 a.m. I've been so excited to taste this. Grown Ups Peanut Butter Jelly, Frozen Screwball Peanut Butter Whiskey, Minute Maid Vanilla Smoothie Mix, Grape Jelly. I love PB and J.
13:18 Dan Pashman? Oh my god.
13:20 Dan Pashman? That is so good. So they had the drinks for the restaurant, they had the barbecue, but they still needed dessert, which meant more Blue Sky sessions. And as with everything else, dessert had to be delicious, yes, but also fit into the story. Ben and Chef Brian knew they wanted to do something with Forky.
13:34 Speaker 04 Because that character was a focus of a lot of discussion between my team and Ben's team. Does Forky belong in this story? Is our timeframe too early? When does Forky show up? He shows up when Andy's a little bit older. But now Andy's young, so does he belong? How do we weave him into the story? That goes back to your original question, you know, to Ben, of things that people don't see? And how do we create more elements of that story? And it fits beautifully.
14:03 Speaker 03 It does.
14:04 Dan Pashman? The end result? Cupcake à la Forky. It's gooey chocolate cake with a vanilla and graham cracker buttercream frosting and a sugar cookie on top. The cookie is shaped like a spork, meaning like Forky, with his face on the white icing. Chef Brian says with all their experience creating and selling desserts at Disney, the recipe came together pretty fast. They know what works. But for people who consider every detail, nailing the recipe is just the beginning.
14:28 Speaker 04 What we had to figure out really was the sizing of the cupcake. How big should the cookie be? What's the expression on Forky's face on the cupcake?
14:37 Dan Pashman? Oh.
14:37 Speaker 04 Because he actually has a face.
14:39 Dan Pashman? Right.
14:39 Speaker 04 So we actually landed on three different expressions. Three different kids at a table may all get three different Forky expressions.
14:48 Dan Pashman? What are the three?
14:49 Speaker 04 I think one is happy and one's like, "Ooh." And then one's like, "Ugh, like what are we doing?" So just those Forky personalities. You know, as kids look at stuff with this incredible, incredible eye, and they always compare stuff with their brother or with their sister, it's like, they're gonna pick up on it. And they do.
15:09 Speaker 03 But we did labor over those faces for months. We had, we had, like, I don't know, two dozen that we started with, you know?
15:15 Dan Pashman? Just then, multiple platters of barbecue land in front of me. I start with a rib.
15:24 Dan Pashman? Half the test of a rib is like before it's even in your mouth.
15:26 Speaker 03 Sure.
15:27 Dan Pashman? The meat just completely falls off the bone.
15:28 Speaker 03 Comes off, yeah.
15:29 Dan Pashman? I'm also interested to see how food Disney has evolved along with American tastes. The sausage is Spiced Linguisa, Portuguese sausage seasoned with garlic and paprika. There's also a plant-based barbecue option that includes cauliflower with harissa drizzle and walnut gremlada. But it's not just the menu that's surprising. Turns out there are tiny special touches, little Easter eggs, all over Roundup Rodeo. Chef Brian's favorite is found on a giant carton of milk in a corner.
15:53 Speaker 03 So, um, the expiration date on that carton of milk is the release date of the original Toy Story movie.
15:59 Dan Pashman? Oh.
16:00 Speaker 03 So, it's pretty, pretty cool.
16:02 Dan Pashman? I love that.
16:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:03 Dan Pashman? So you probably shouldn't drink it, though.
16:04 Speaker 03 I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
16:06 Dan Pashman? For Ben, the Imagineer, he points to a row of tables where the back of the banquet is a giant, old-school wooden ruler. That didn't show up out in me. Nearly every component of Toy Story Land is a toy. Fences are made from connects pieces, light posts are made out of Tinker Toys, but Ben says this ruler is special.
16:23 Speaker 03 That ruler is actually scaled to the size of the restaurant. So, the reason why it's only an eight-inch ruler is because if you were to pull the drawings out and look at it, it's actually to the scale, which I love.
16:34 Dan Pashman? So this entire place is to scale?
16:37 Speaker 03 Yeah. That's what we tried to do here, is keep it as to scale.
16:42 Dan Pashman? So this gigantic little bow peep in the center is eight inches tall, give or take?
16:49 Speaker 03 Yes, mhm, yeah. And that was part of the deal, was we wanted to create an environment that had fully curated chaos in it, where your eye could just keep moving and moving, but it was tightly curated so that as you're eating this incredible, you know, banquet of food, and you're seeing this and that, you know, as the flavor profiles change, or what you're finding is changing, it's a whole interactive experience. And one of the deals with that was that it would make sense to scale it all. So everything is to scale in the restaurant here.
17:18 Dan Pashman? I love that. Coming up, I arrive at Tiana's Bayou Adventure and get the real story of that gumbo recipe. Plus a lot more that I never knew about Tiana. Stick around.
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20:50 Dan Pashman? Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. A few weeks back, we aired my live show in Brooklyn where I chatted with bestselling cookbook author and YouTuber Kenji Lopez Alt and legendary comic Judy Gold. We tackled big topics like why the restaurant industry has so many scandals, and slightly smaller topics like why people are feeding their babies sticks of butter. But one of the most heated moments of the night came when we talked about the state of the bagel, especially the news that a growing number of bagel shops are no longer serving pumpernickel bagels.
21:18 Speaker 07 Pumpernickel bagels are the best bagels. They're sweet, right? They're sweet and they taste so great with the schmear. I'm telling you, I'm really upset about the pumpernickel bagel thing. And by the way, if you eat a blueberry bagel, don't ever talk to me again.
21:39 Dan Pashman? That episode's up now. It's called What's the State of the Bagel? Check it out. And by the way, if you missed me in Brooklyn but still want to see me live, good news, as I said, I'll be in Boston on May 1st. Still a few tickets left. Find out more at sporkful.com/live. All right, back to Disney World. I've had a few drinks and eaten some barbecue. It's time to go on a ride.
22:02 Dan Pashman? I head to Tiana's Bayou Adventure. This ride used to be Splash Mountain, but Splash Mountain included some characters from the old Disney movie Song of the South. That film was long criticized for its depiction of black people and slavery. So back in 2020, Disney announced that Splash Mountain would be rethemed. The ride itself would remain a log flume with several increasingly steep drops. But the animatronic characters, music, and scenery would be totally changed, so the ride would tell a new story. For the new theme, Disney picked their 2009 film, The Princess and the Frog. Set in 1920s New Orleans, it tells the story of Tiana, whose dream is to open her own restaurant. We follow her as she grows from a kid helping in the kitchen into a young woman working as a waitress and trying to save up money for her place. But when she's close to getting her big break, her dream gets snatched away.
22:47 Dan Pashman? There's a royal ball, voodoo magic, a prince named Naveen, and a kiss. And when all is said and done, she's Princess Tiana. Tiana was Disney's first black princess. Food's obviously a big part of her journey, but I was curious to learn how Disney incorporated food into a ride. As I learned, to really understand that, you have to understand not just the movie, but its backstory. Because Tiana's story was actually inspired by a real person, Lea Chase, who opened the iconic New Orleans restaurant, Dookie Chase, in 1941. Lea Chase passed away a few years back, but today, generations of her family continue to run the restaurant. It's been recognized by the James Beard Foundation as an American classic.
23:27 Speaker 08 Well, you know, my mother, Chef Lea Chase, was a storyteller. She loved people. She loved sitting down to talk to people. And so that happened quite frequently in the restaurant, where people would come just for her advice or just to talk to her.
23:44 Dan Pashman? This is Stella Chase, Lea's daughter.
23:46 Speaker 08 Disney came as well. And I just remember, my mother did not tell me it was Disney. She just says, "Oh, I'm greeting some people, and I'll be in the gold room if you could keep everything going and keep people quiet and away from the area." So I'm going like, "Okay, I can do that." And it wasn't until later... That I found out who it was and that they'd just come to talk to her.
24:15 Dan Pashman? Eventually Stella's mother told her that Disney was working on a new movie and that Leah would be the inspiration for a character.
24:21 Speaker 08 They may use some of what I said in the new movie and I'm going like, oh, really? So she was excited and I'm going like, okay, but more excited when she could view that movie. And we did it as a family outing with her grandchildren, her children. And we all attended the movie very excited. We all waited for the end to see if her name would be anywhere.
24:52 Dan Pashman? And what was the reaction in that moment, her, her name came on the screen?
24:55 Speaker 08 We all started clapping and jumping up, you know?
24:58 Dan Pashman? I love the scene early on, Tiana is with her father and the, the pot of gumbo is on the stove, uh, on the fire. And he, he sort of says, Tiana, what, what, taste this, what do you think?
25:10 Speaker 09 Okay, I'm about to put this spoon in my.
25:13 Speaker 05 Wait.
25:15 Dan Pashman? And she takes a taste and she says, it needs a little more Tabasco.
25:18 Speaker 05 Done.
25:23 Speaker 05 What?
25:24 Speaker 09 Well, sweetheart, this is the best gumbo I've ever tasted. Come here, you do our little girl got a gift.
25:32 Dan Pashman? Right. And they throw in a few splashes of Tabasco and then it's perfect.
25:36 Speaker 08 Okay.
25:37 Dan Pashman? Like, how, how, how true to life did that specific scene feel to you?
25:41 Speaker 08 So, um, it brought back up the memories. The story about my mother with the Tabasco was when President Obama came. And he was eating a bowl of gumbo and somebody brought him the Tabasco sauce. And he went to put it in the gumbo before tasting the gumbo. And my mother came out of the kitchen and said, tap this hand, not in my gumbo, you don't.
26:11 Dan Pashman? So that specific scene where Tiana adds the Tabasco, you feel like that's basically sort of a connection to the idea that
26:18 Speaker 08 Yeah.
26:18 Dan Pashman? Once Tiana declared the gumbo to be finished.
26:21 Speaker 08 That's it.
26:21 Dan Pashman? No one else needed to be adding any more Tabasco.
26:23 Speaker 08 Nobody needed to add anything else. It was just perfect.
26:29 Dan Pashman? I think it's a beautiful image of your mom and communicates a lot about her that it didn't matter that it was the president sitting there having the gumbo. He is not putting Tabasco in there.
26:39 Speaker 08 You got it. That was my mom.
26:43 Dan Pashman? But Disney took a lot more than that from their conversations with Leah Chase. In the film, Tiana works and works to save up money for a restaurant, but then she's outbid for the place by someone else. The real estate agents she's been dealing with deliver the news with a thinly veiled comment about Tiana's race.
26:59 Speaker 10 You know how long it took me to save that money? Exactly. Which is why a little woman of your background would have had her hands full trying to run a big business like that. You're better off, will ya? Now, wait a minute.
27:13 Dan Pashman? What did you make of that scene when you saw it?
27:16 Speaker 08 In the late 80s, my mother and father did want to expand the restaurant to a bigger restaurant, a fancier restaurant, so everyone will feel like they're coming to a special place. My mother and father went through obstacles because that means they had to borrow money. And everybody was not willing to loan money to African-American businesses even then. But we were fortunate because at that time, a black bank had just started, Liberty Bank, and they were able to loan her the money. So my mother was refused by people, but never let that get her down. Kept.
28:01 Speaker 08 Pushing and pushing till finally she found someone to loan her the needed money to expand the restaurant. And that's what happened.
28:10 Dan Pashman? So when The Princess and the Frog came out, it was another landmark moment in a remarkable journey for Leah Chase. From opening during segregation in 1941 to fighting for loans in the 1980s to becoming, well, an actual Disney princess.
28:25 Speaker 08 She had the opportunity to witness so many children coming into the restaurant dressed like Princess Tiana, wanting to meet the princess.
28:36 Dan Pashman? I love that.
28:37 Speaker 08 You know, we have pictures. I'm looking at one now, you know. But so many people came, took pictures, even sent us those pictures back with my mother, with little children of all races, all ages coming. And, you know, she was, that made her so very happy because she is about unifying people and making everyone feel special. And, you know, even to this day, we have people who come with Tiana princess outfits on. One little girl came and they always said, oh, this is Tiana's daughter. So out of the mouths of children, you know.
29:19 Speaker 08 So she looked at me, she said, when did Tiana get so old? And I said, oh, okay.
29:33 Dan Pashman? Years later, when Stella's mother had passed away, Stella got a call from Disney. They wanted to open a Tiana ride. Suddenly, it was Stella who was in meetings with the Disney folks.
29:42 Speaker 08 They did many research trips here, which I was a part of. And I'm now an honorary member of the Imagineer team. Got my cap. I should go get it over there, get my cap to show you.
29:56 Dan Pashman? Stella shows me a bright red hard hat with her name on the front, signifying her status as an Imagineer. She says when the Disney team came to New Orleans to work on the ride, they were making notes not just on the food, but on the music, art, architecture, even the local plant life. 2024, Tiana's Bayou Adventure opened in Disney World. Do you remember the first time that you rode the ride?
30:18 Speaker 08 I did.
30:18 Dan Pashman? Are you a rides person? Like, do you like roller coasters?
30:21 Speaker 08 I don't like roller coasters. No, I don't. But you know, nothing was gonna keep me from going on Tiana's Bayou.
30:28 Dan Pashman? That's right. That's right. So, so tell me about that first ride.
30:31 Speaker 08 So that first ride, I was determined to try to keep my eyes open. But of course, it didn't happen. Eyes were down, head was down, and I just went, woo. But I've gone on it several times since, and it's been joyful every time. Because every time, I experienced something different.
30:53 Dan Pashman? The thing that stuck out to me, the first time I rode the ride as Tiana's, was you're in line, and you're seeing all the, you're seeing these, these news clippings of Tiana becoming this, this big chef, and the restaurant being so successful. And then there's also the framed gumbo recipe on the wall. And it's like handwritten on a piece of, there's sort of lined paper. Have you seen that recipe? Did you look at it?
31:17 Speaker 08 Yes.
31:18 Dan Pashman? And is the framed gumbo recipe in the, that is in the line at Tiana's, your gumbo recipe?
31:23 Speaker 08 Yes, and it should also be the one that's in our, her cookbook. So yes, it is.
31:30 Dan Pashman? Wow. So, so in theory, you could take a picture of that recipe and go home, and it's not gonna be quite the same. I, I'm sure it won't be quite as good, but like, it could be roughly approximate the experience.
31:41 Speaker 08 Right. Because in New Orleans, gumbo is a big thing in families. And each family have their own little recipe that they make special for them. You know, and we like to think ours is best. And, uh, you know, we have some people saying that, and we-
31:58 Dan Pashman? Oh, you have a lot of people saying that.
31:59 Speaker 08 Yeah, yeah. We do have a lot of people, and we have a lot of people who come in saying, tastes just like my grandmother's. And I said, well, then that's when we're doing something right.
32:11 Dan Pashman? Today Stella's in her 70s. She spent most of her life working at her family's restaurant and eventually running it. As she took over, she found a quote from George Washington Carver that really resonated with her, that she keeps in mind to this day.
32:23 Speaker 08 Take things where they are, with what you have. Make something of it and never be satisfied. I felt my mother was never satisfied. She always thought things could be better. And you know, as her daughter, trying to do what would daughters do? Make their mom satisfied and happy? That was a chore. And every time I'd do something, I thought, mm, this is it. And she would be happy, but she said, but you know, we can, she always wanted to add something else, which now I appreciate because you always have to want to grow. That was my mother. And that was Tiana.
33:07 Speaker 08 She kept performing whatever she had to do to get our restaurant. And then after, coming together with the community to make something even better.
33:19 Dan Pashman? Coming up, I tour the Tiana ride at Disney World with one of the Imagineers who worked on it. We'll find out what special smell they pipe in while you're waiting in line. Then we'll ride it. Stick around.
33:34 Speaker 11 Hope you're hungry because it's time for some ads.
33:44 Dan Pashman? Welcome back. To get a rare behind the scenes tour of Tiana's Bayou Adventure, I have to get to Magic Kingdom before the park opens. As it is, people sometimes wait two hours to go on this ride. The Disney folks aren't about to pause the line so I can spend 10 minutes reading the gumbo recipe on the wall. I meet up with Wendy Agila, Senior Project Coordinator on Tiana's Bayou Adventure. She was part of the Imagineering Feasibility Team, the people who transform a blue sky idea into reality.
34:08 Speaker 12 Because of my background in theater and being very into how to make a production, how to make the magic, I really loved right away the logistics and the, oh, this is how they do things and this is how we build and how we make something make sense in the physical world.
34:27 Dan Pashman? When was the first time you saw The Princess and the Frog?
34:30 Speaker 12 I actually went to Washington Theaters in 2009.
34:33 Dan Pashman? Oh, that's an impressive credential.
34:35 Speaker 12 Yes.
34:36 Dan Pashman? Like other rides at Disney, the telling of Tiana's story begins when you enter the queue. And like other rides, this one pushes Tiana's story forward. It's set a year after the movie ends. And as Stella Chase said, Tiana continues to push to make things better. In the story of the ride, Tiana has now launched a business called Tiana's Foods, packing and shipping pickled vegetables, hot sauce, and more to customers all over.
34:58 Speaker 12 As we go through the queue, you'll see a lot of props of her specific hot sauces and her branding, but also we'll see a bunch of things that she is receiving from other places, right? She can't farm everything here, so it's understanding, basing that in the real world of how a production like this would actually happen and come about.
35:18 Dan Pashman? Like, I love that you actually made a distinction between like, well, these are the things she would have been able to grow.
35:22 Speaker 12 Right, yep.
35:23 Dan Pashman? And these are the things she would have had to order.
35:25 Speaker 12 Mm-hmm, we had a lot of conversations about that, so.
35:27 Dan Pashman? Tiana's new business is the backdrop to this ride's main story, which is that Tiana's planning a big Mardi Gras party. The only problem is that Louis, the trumpet-playing alligator, forgot to book a band for it.
35:38 Speaker 12 And so you'll kind of get glimpses of that as you're standing here in the queue and you're listening to the audio, there's a radio station playing, and so we have a announcement out to anyone to see, hey, are you a musician? You want to come play in our band? Right.
35:51 Speaker 13 Got it, Tiana. The Bayou's not the first place I think to look for musicians.
35:55 Dan Pashman? In the movie, Tiana has this drawing that she made as a kid of what she dreams her restaurant will look like. She carries it with her throughout the film. Now we see Tiana's office, and that same drawing is in a frame on the wall. Wendy points out more details.
36:08 Speaker 12 We have a clock-in station, right? So this is where her employees will come in, clock in, this is where they have their aprons ready for the day. Yeah, definitely a place where everyone starts their day, not only Tiana, but also her employees.
36:21 Dan Pashman? So their names on the time cards, one of them is Leah.
36:24 Speaker 12 Yep.
36:25 Dan Pashman? Like Leah Chase.
36:26 Speaker 12 That is correct, yes, that is a nice little reference to her.
36:29 Speaker 14 You're listening to WNO New Orleans.
36:31 Dan Pashman? We continue walking through the queue.
36:32 Speaker 14 You can take yourself to Tiana's Bayou, Joe, to pick up the best hot sauces in town.
36:39 Dan Pashman? And eventually, we get to Tiana's kitchen.
36:42 Speaker 12 So here we really get a bigger backstory of her family and who her father was, who inspired her how to cook, right? And, you know, the gumbo is specifically a big shout out to her father, as we see in the film as well. And of course, the bengays. And we do have a really fun scent here as well, where you can smell the bengays in the kitchen.
37:03 Dan Pashman? So there's like a scent piped in?
37:05 Speaker 12 There is, and it is delicious.
37:09 Speaker 12 So yeah, so this is...
37:10 Dan Pashman? Like it smells sweet?
37:11 Speaker 12 Yes, definitely. And there's a fun little nod here as well, where you can see her recipe card right over there.
37:18 Dan Pashman? So now we're in the kitchen.
37:19 Speaker 12 Yes.
37:20 Dan Pashman? There's sort of like an old fashioned stove, oven.
37:24 Speaker 12 That is an authentic oven, yep.
37:26 Dan Pashman? Is it actually like period specific? So this is like a hundred year old?
37:29 Speaker 12 Yes, that is.
37:30 Dan Pashman? Give or take.
37:31 Speaker 12 That is accurate, yes. Our props team did an amazing job here specifically.
37:35 Dan Pashman? Now, we come to the gumbo recipe. I pause again, as I did when I first saw it. But this time, knowing that this is actually the Dookie Chase recipe, it's so much more meaningful. As Stella Chase said, the recipe did appear in the Dookie Chase cookbook many years ago, so it's not a secret. But still, this is probably the most famous gumbo in America. Over the decades, Leah Chase served it to activists, artists, and presidents. She often said, "In my dining room, we changed the course of America over a bowl of gumbo and some fried chicken." And here it is, hanging on the wall in Disney World. Every year, millions of people pass by it. A lot of them don't really know what they're looking at. But those who do know they're walking past a piece of American food history. Eventually, we make our way to the front of the queue and prepare to get on the ride itself.
38:20 Dan Pashman? I spoke to an imagineer the other day who said that one of the blue sky ideas he heard for this ride was to replace the water with lemonade.
38:27 Speaker 12 That would have been great.
38:30 Dan Pashman? The thinking was that when you get splashed in the face, it will taste good.
38:33 Speaker 12 Well, I can't confirm that, but I, yeah, that would be, that would be a great, a great dream, I guess.
38:38 Dan Pashman? On a really hot day, it's fun to go on this ride and get wet and cool off, and then you walk around the park.
38:42 Speaker 12 Yeah.
38:43 Dan Pashman? I don't know that I'd want to be soaked in lemonade for the next six hours.
38:45 Speaker 12 No, definitely not. I'm sure the bees would be very happy, though.
38:48 Dan Pashman? I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that's another reason why. But hey, that's the blue sky phase.
38:52 Speaker 12 Yeah, exactly.
38:53 Dan Pashman? The park's still a few minutes from opening, which means Wendy and I get the first ride of the day just for us. It's very exciting being here right before the ride opens.
39:00 Speaker 12 Yeah.
39:01 Dan Pashman? Like, there is an air of anticipation.
39:02 Speaker 12 Definitely is.
39:03 Dan Pashman? All the, all the team is here, ready, and it's like you know that in just a few minutes, the gate's gonna open. And the peace and quiet that was here when we first arrived is going to be turned upside down.
39:14 Speaker 12 That's okay. It's exciting.
39:16 Dan Pashman? Finally, we get on the ride. Since it's early morning and a bit chilly, I don't want to get soaked. Wendy says the third row of the log gets the least wet, so that's where we sit. All right, we're going up the first ascent.
39:29 Dan Pashman? And it's a big drop.
39:33 Speaker 15 Hallelujah!
39:36 Speaker 15 I would love for y'all to play at my party tonight.
39:39 Dan Pashman? As we continue, we're leading up to this big Mardi Gras party. With the help of her friends, Tiana's trying to put together a band and get the food ready. At one point, we get shrunk down into frogs like Tiana was in the movie. Then we begin the long ascent to the big final drop. All right, we're at the top. Here we go.
40:10 Dan Pashman? Wendy, I thought you said the third row doesn't get wet.
40:12 Speaker 12 I'm sorry.
40:15 Dan Pashman? Turns out, the third row of the log only stays dry if there are people in the second row of the log to block the water. Anyway, after the big drop, the story concludes. We come around the bend to find a massive Mardi Gras party.
40:51 Dan Pashman? My thanks to Charles Stovall, Lindsay Griginski, Nicole Dickinson, and everyone at Disney for their help with this episode. Next week on the show, I chat with Eva Longoria. She tells me about eating her way through Spain and France for a documentary series, and why, in addition to being a big Hollywood star, she's also a huge nerd. That's next week. While you wait for that one, check out last week's show about one person's experience living with alpha gal, a tick-borne condition that can make you allergic to mammal meat. That episode's up now. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything
41:34 Dan Pashman? you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful. This episode was produced by me, along with managing producer- Emma Morgenstern- and senior producer- Andres O'Hara- It was edited by- Camille Stanley- Our engineer is- Jared O'Connell- And our intern is- Morgan Johnson- Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.
42:05 Speaker 11 And I'm Alyssa from Jupiter, Florida, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.
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