Book Club Meets: Rekindling intimacy in marriage, with Josie Lloyd and Emlyn Rees

Adam and Jules have been married for 25 years and are stuck in a bit of a rut. Adam stumbles across some old mixtapes he and Jules made for each other when they were young and falling in love, and when they play them... they get to travel back in time to different moments in their relationship. Will remembering the passion they used to have get the future of their relationship back on track, or will it just spark absolute chaos? You & Me, You & Me, You & Me was our Happy Place Book Club pick for April. In this chat with Fearne, authors Josie Lloyd and Emlyn Rees – themselves a married couple – explain why they wanted to explore rekindling intimacy in the empty nest phase, and reveal how they write together on a practical level. What do you reckon, if you could go back in time to tweak some of the decisions you’d made – would you? Maybe it would make you even more grateful for the happiness you have now... Thank you to Vintage Digital for the use of the You & Me and You & Me and You & Me audiobook, narrated by Rory Kinnear and Sally Phillips. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Book Club Meets: Emma Gannon https://pod.fo/e/39d084 Book Club Meets: Maggie O’Farrell https://pod.fo/e/388539 Book Club Meets: Nussaibah Younis https://pod.fo/e/37108f Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:31Fearne Cotton?

  Hello, hello, and welcome to the Happy Place Book Club with me, Fern Cotton.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  An 81 hit, but recorded on here as the opening track because it was having a total revival in the Brighton sixth-form indie discos in 89. Right away-

• 0:46Fearne Cotton?

  Today, You and Me, You and Me, You and Me, by Josie Lloyd and M. Lim Reese.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  Leaving me feeling anxious and happy and nostalgic all at once, and suddenly so bloody young again, it makes me want to weep. Because we had it all back then, didn't we, Jules and me? We had everything ahead of us. We hadn't screwed anything up. It's like I can feel the music pumping right through me now, like it's somehow charging my very soul as tears of loss and something like homesickness stream down my cheeks. I can't stop looking at the tape's twin spindles as they keep on turning, staring back at me like a pair of hypnotic eyes, round and round and round and round and round. Then I'm jolted by a thunderous crash and a blinding flash of lightning obliterates

• 1:36Speaker 02

  the square of black night sky framed by the shed window, and I feel my whole universe shake. Next thing, what the hell? It's me, turning round and round and round, faster and faster, like I'm going to break. In a hideous whirlwind of coloured lights and rushing wind, and all the while with Phil Bloodyoakey singing "Don't You Want Me" over and over again, until, twisting, pulling back desperately, trying and failing to fight against the tide, I'm sucked down, screaming into that churning kaleidoscopic typhoon's shrinking black eye.

• 2:12Fearne Cotton?

  This was our Happy Place Book Club read for April. And firstly, it's important to say that Josie and Emlyn are actually a married couple and they've written this book together, which is so cool. So look, in the book, Adam and Jules have been married for 25 years and are stuck in a little bit of a rut. Now, the concept of this story is genius. Adam stumbles across some old mixtapes he and Jules made for each other when they were young and falling in love. And when they play them, they get to travel back in time to different moments in their relationship. Now, will remembering the passion they used to have get the future of their relationship back on track? Or will it just

• 2:52Fearne Cotton?

  spark absolute chaos? This book has such heart, I cannot tell you. I adored it. And so did you. As ever, we've all been talking about the book on Instagram over at @HappyPlaceBookClub. This is Helen. Hi Helen.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Hi, Fan. I saw the April book pick on Instagram of you and me, you and me, you and me. And I don't know about you, but I love a good book cover. I'm generally not a reader of magical books, but I had to go and buy this book. I grew up in an era of mixtapes and trying to record from one tape deck to another. It would be so cool to travel back to see my younger self. I keep wondering if there is an old tape player in the loft. I really cheered on Adam and Jules and I hope the story had a good ending. No spoilers. It certainly made me think about what ifs in my life, what would I change? And I really don't know, especially when children are involved. Such a fab, feel-good book, which

• 3:49Speaker 03

  I actually think would be a really good movie. Anyway, I'm loving your podcast and lots of love.

• 3:55Fearne Cotton?

  Helen, I agree. Can you imagine what a brilliant time-travelling movie that would be? So fun. I think we need a time travel movie. We haven't had one since, well, About Time. I mean, I'm sure there have been other ones. I can't think of any. Back to the Future, that was way, way, way, way back. We need this to be made into a film. Lizzie says, love the book, read it in two days, moving and funny, makes you consider how decisions... However small can cause a massive change. What a brilliant read. Oh my God, without a doubt. And Yvonne, you finished this in one day by the pool in Spain. Is there a better way to read? I think not. You say fantastic authors, mind blowing story, got me so thoughtful and so bloody grateful

• 4:39Fearne Cotton?

  for life on life's terms, where it is right now. I wasn't saying that 48 hours ago. Funny how great fiction can affect your feelings. 10 out of 10. What a beautiful review. Thank you for getting in touch and letting us know what you think of our books each month. This is exactly what this book club is, well, all book clubs are about, but that's what we love, hearing from you. As I say, Josie and Emlyn are married, so it was really interesting finding out how writing together works on a practical level, as well as just how much of the book is autobiographical, not the time travel bit, obviously.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them.

• 5:30Speaker 05

  Everybody listen up.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 5:47Speaker 06

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 6:21Speaker 05

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Saffron Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend, Happy.

• 6:30Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at SaffronCredit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit SaffronCredit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 6:53Fearne Cotton?

  Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

• 7:17Fearne Cotton?

  I'm Josie and Emlyn. Welcome to Happy Place and thank you for being our Happy Place Book Club pick. We're so thrilled.

• 7:24Speaker 03

  Not as thrilled as us, Fern. Thank you so much.

• 7:26Speaker 05

  Thank you so much for having us on.

• 7:27Fearne Cotton?

  It's such a great book. Now, this is the actual hardback copy, but I got this really special proof copy that had my name on it, which I was so buzzed about. And in a genius stroke, when you take this cover off, you've actually got

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, the tape.

• 7:40Fearne Cotton?

  This underneath, the tape, the cassette tape.

• 7:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, remember those from back in the day?

• 7:45Fearne Cotton?

  They've had a resurgence. I mean, cassettes are back. They're trendy again. We love them.

• 7:49Speaker 05

  And books are trendy again. Books are looking better, I think, in the last couple of two years.

• 7:53Fearne Cotton?

  I agree.

• 7:53Speaker 05

  And they have done forever. Hardbacks are just lovely, collectible things again.

• 7:56Fearne Cotton?

  They are.

• 7:57Speaker 05

  And 10 years ago, it was just a bit meh, you know.

• 7:59Speaker 03

  But they look gorgeous now, yeah.

• 8:00Fearne Cotton?

  I can only hold a book. I don't want, no disc to Kindles, but I, or an audiobook even, I need a book. I want to see the cover. I want to feel it. I want to dog ear the pages. I want to write in the margins. I love books.

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  I've got the worst habit, which is I rip pages on books. So it'll end up looking like it's been through a shredder because any line I like, I'll rip the line where it is and I'll fold over the top of the page.

• 8:23Fearne Cotton?

  What? That is wild.

• 8:25Speaker 05

  Which drives Joe slightly nuts in bed because it's quite noisy.

• 8:26Speaker 03

  No, no, this is not, this is only, not only does he do this in bed, but then he'll nudge me awake and go, listen to this bit. And then, then he'll finish the book and he'll close the last page and go, that was brilliant. And then he'll go, you've got to read it now. I'm nodding to my head. Why would I read it? You've told me all the good bits.

• 8:43Fearne Cotton?

  And you've torn all the pages out. The rip is extreme. You could just underline it.

• 8:47Speaker 05

  No, it's honestly, I think it's because it's tangible and you've Done it. And then if I want to find that line, I can find it.

• 8:53Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 8:53Speaker 05

  I can honestly, my brain can kind of know which bit of the book it's in. And then I can go, I can kind of see on the page, I think in my head, it's down or up.

• 9:00Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 9:01Speaker 05

  I can find it pretty quick.

• 9:02Fearne Cotton?

  I'm, I'm definitely into the sort of graffitiing of books. People can be quite precious about it, but I love going to my bookshelf, pulling out a book and looking at what I've underlined or what notes I've written or pages I've dogged. I think that it does draw your mind back to the bit that's impacted you the most.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  Yeah. And you co, I think you co, as a reader, when you buy a book, you co-own that story.

• 9:23Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  Cause you're putting your imagination in kind of as much as the writer has, because you're the one making all the hard work of seeing it in your head of these words. So I do, I do think, yeah, you should rip away and scrawl away.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  My problem is, is that I love a book and I evangelise that book. And because for me, the reason that I'm a writer is because I love reading so much. And actually, I think there is no greater feeling than that escapism. And actually, when I discovered that you can get that from writing, I was hooked. But when I love a book and I've finished it and I've really enjoyed it, I go straight out and I press it into the hands of a friend or my sister or someone. And so I've only got the rubbish books left on my shelves. I don't have any of the good ones because they never come back to me. And then people say, some people come around and go, oh, what have you got on your shelf? So interesting. You know, what do you read? And I'm like, no, no, none of those.

• 10:13Fearne Cotton?

  Don't look at those ones.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  Don't look at those ones. All the good ones have gone.

• 10:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I do. I give books away and you do have to just let go because they're never coming back.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 10:21Fearne Cotton?

  And then people will say, I'll bring that back when I've read it. They don't.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  No.

• 10:24Fearne Cotton?

  Only my mum, she's quite good at giving books back. Anyone else, no, don't see the light of day. Never again. They're gone. Let's talk about your brilliant book, You and Me and You and Me and You and Me, because this story is so brilliant. I read this, I think it was in the summer last year, I got a very early copy.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:40Fearne Cotton?

  And I instantly loved it for so many reasons. One of them is there's time travel, which I want to dig into with both of you, because time travel is hard to write. I think, never done it, but I'm assuming it is. And also it's heavy on the music, which is a massive tick for me. And it looks at the intricacies of long-term relationships, which I think is all. Always fascinating. You write as a married couple, which you've obviously done before. Whose initial idea or thread of an idea was this?

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Well, it was been knocking around for a while, to be honest. And when we wrote Come Together, which we wrote back in the day, before we got together, we were very, we had a lot to say about being twenty something singletons in London. We felt very clear about that stage of life. And we've never really wanted to write anything autobiographical since because we've had kids and we've wanted to, you know, protect their privacy.

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, and we had come together on a top shelf for years. It's quite racist. Let's never do anything honest again. Let's just write novels with plots about people that are nothing like us.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  So then we were kind of chatting, we're going, it would be lovely to write again because we've written parodies before. Quite a few parodies. We haven't actually done a juicy novel together. It would be like, but how would we? We want to tell a story about long term love. Because so many rom coms, you know, end at the bended knee or, you know, somebody running across town going, oh, you're the one. But actually the fun stuff happens after that. So we wanted to talk about long term love. But we didn't want to do a straight narrative. So there were a lot of conversations about how we would do it.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  And a lot of our chats over the last two, three years, I think, and a lot of our chats with friends have been about those kind of what ifs. You reach that stage when your kids are growing up, they're about to leave home. It's a really recognised, there are very few recognisable stages of life, and this is one. You kind of go, wow, the kind of hands on parenting is dwindling. And it's kind of like, and then the inevitable thing is you look at, you kind of look at yourselves again and you have the time to do it. And you kind of, you know, we've been through lots of ups and downs in our kind of relationship, in our life. And it was very much the sort of thing, a natural thing of, would you have done things different? What would you have done? Do you think you could be happier or not? And once those conversations were sort of coming along, it's kind of funnelled into this thing of, hey, we might have something to say again.

• 13:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting question to ask yourself and your partner is certainly if you've been married for a long time, had kids, been together over the course of decades, what might you have done? Done differently. Do you have regrets? And to be able to have a conversation that isn't loaded and or full of defensiveness that is full of curiosity as to like, you know, what if? What did you stumble upon or what did you learn about each other in having those chats?

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Well, we wanted to make it as authentic as possible. And so we had to really drill down and be very honest with each other and go, well, what, what if, what would you do differently? To be honest, Fern, it was free marriage counselling.

• 13:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  I mean, it really was because we really had to drill down, didn't we? And we decided that everything was going to be on the table, you know, for our characters. So everything from their sexual relationship to, you know, their regrets about stuff that they hadn't, paths that they hadn't taken. So we kind of looked at that stuff.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  Other things, how, how love changes over the years, what it kind of means, what, what parenting is and all this kind of stuff. So, so, yeah, we were kind of sort of aiming at that, weren't we? And, and just wanted to make it, we wanted to make it feel real. But we also, the, the, the most fun we'd ever had before this was writing Come Together because we didn't know each other. We were showing off to each other. We were writing these alternate chapters, his, hers chapters. And there's definitely a part of me over the years that has craved that intimacy that we had in that sort of first year we met each other. And, yeah, we've written parodies, but they're the kind, they're the kind of things you can write down the pub in 20 minutes.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  And so there is that insane brain melt that you get together, which is really exciting. But I've definitely somebody over the years have felt more and more, I want to get that back. And I love Joe to bits, but that is something really

• 14:41Speaker 03

  It's really special.

• 14:42Speaker 05

  Special that I did feel we'd lost. So it was, it was a kind of really exciting way to do that.

• 14:47Fearne Cotton?

  And still wanting to impress each other?

• 14:49Speaker 05

  To make, to make her laugh. That, that, that was my, that was my riff with this was very much to make her cry and make her laugh. And that excitement of handing over a chapter to somebody and the joy to writer, as you will know yourself, of the hell. But not having feedback and suddenly, oh my God, I get instant feedback.

• 15:05Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  What a joy.

• 15:07Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  It was honestly like discovering old magic when we started writing. We had so much fun writing this book. It was a dream. And, and we gave the first chapters to our agents and they said, we love the idea, but you're going to have to write the whole thing. We were like, oh, okay.

• 15:24Fearne Cotton?

  This is real.

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Because actually, how on earth are you going to resolve it? We need to see how it is because it's a, it's more of a multiverse book rather than a time loop book. There's lots of time loop books that go, just go over and over the same day, but each time the characters come back, they are coming back to an alternate universe, which is almost the same, but not quite. So it was, it took quite a lot of planning. So we got a massive roll of lining paper.

• 15:49Fearne Cotton?

  I was gonna ask this.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  On the dining room table. And we planned it out and then we divvied it up into chapters. But of course, because we're writing alternate chapters and the reader is getting a different point of view each time, and know much more than either of the characters know at any one time, that's where the comedy comes. So, and it's a gift that keeps on giving. So then we had the opportunity to kind of really surprise each other with each other's chapters, which was really fun.

• 16:13Fearne Cotton?

  Fun. I mean, we're yet to talk about the mechanism for this time travel or this multi-dimensional situation, which is mixtapes. Where did that come from? It's a great idea.

• 16:22Speaker 05

  Well, it's mixtapes now, but originally I had a much worse idea, which is I wanted to, there used to be this old adverts on TV for Zanusi, which was the appliance of science. And in my head, I'm not very good with scale, basically. And in my head, I thought, wow, a time, you know, time is circular. A washing machine goes round and round and it's like a rewind or a fast forward. What if they, what if they've got an old washing machine in the garden shed that they climb into and it switches on and it takes them back in time. At which point Joe pointed out, this isn't a very practical thing.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  I'm not writing my character going into a washing machine, darling. No, that's not a good idea.

• 16:57Fearne Cotton?

  That's a flat no.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  But it was a bit like a search for a device, because, because the story, we knew the story, that, that the fun bit, we wanted a fun device to tell a long-term relationship. So that was going to be time trouble. We thought this is a.

• 17:08Fearne Cotton?

  Great way for them to go back and, you know, to get to revisit parts of their relationship. But we also, we're fans of loads of things, you know, so there's, there's Richard Curtis's About Time, where he just goes into a cupboard and it's really nicely done.

• 17:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love it.

• 17:19Fearne Cotton?

  Walks into a wardrobe, comes out, and then there's, um, what's the Christopher Reeve book?

• 17:24Speaker 03

  Somewhere in Time.

• 17:25Fearne Cotton?

  Somewhere in Time, where he looks at a photograph, puts on nineteen twenties music and sort of goes back. So initially we thought, we're going to get hold of our old, we dug out all our old Sony sort of digi tapes from the kind of noughties when the kids were little. We're looking at these, which is another story, because it's actually lovely, but weirdly depressing as well. But we sort of thought, we're not going to do that. And then we started writing without the device. We started writing the characters.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 17:49Fearne Cotton?

  And so the device ended up really coming from them because they are a bit autobiographical. We're a family, we've got four record players at home. Jo, Jo, basically, when, when, when we get together about six months, Jo bought me a Willetson. A broken Willetson, which has, has worked for a month, a month of a relationship. And so we're a house full of music. So Adam and Jules, as we were writing these first chapters, wondering how we're going to get them to go back. The pages were full of music, the pages, he's, he's a hoarder. And so suddenly it's like, it's gotta be music and then mixtapes.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  But we made, you know, we, we were the, we had iPods and we made playlists for each other. And we've, we had all of our, all of our memories are tied up with music.

• 18:32Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  And so it was so obvious. And the more we went into it and we created a playlist on Spotify to go with the book, the more we were like, oh, well, that's an obvious choice and that one. And, and so we used some of our, a lot of our own music, but also music that is about time travel and is about kind of regrets. And so there was so much to choose from, but we would be in bed at night and I would go, oh my God, we haven't done Talking Heads. That's, that's gotta go on.

• 19:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  And then we, and then we named the chapters after the songs. So it's just been, and then again, music. It gives she that nostalgia, doesn't it?

• 19:07Fearne Cotton?

  It is.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Like nothing else. It is time trouble.

• 19:10Fearne Cotton?

  I can listen to, like, when I do my radio show, which is all nineties, there's some songs where I'm literally in my teenage bedroom.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:17Fearne Cotton?

  And I can smell things and I'm like feeling the feelings and it's like, oh my God, what, what is this? You know, it's, it does it for you. So it's just such a clever mechanism to, to get the characters back there.

• 19:27Speaker 05

  It's amazing because it, it fulfill, if you're yearning for that feeling of a better time, you turn, you turn to music, that's all we need. And Adam in the book, they have a spectacular row, Adam and Jules, and it's, it's one of these things where it's kind of, it's a marriage breaking row and he ends up in the shed on his own and he's there and there's an old Sony machine. And he finds an old mixtape that Jules has told him to throw out and he's, he's been furious about this.

• 19:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 19:52Speaker 05

  It's like throwing us out, throwing our mixtapes out. So when he pops this in, he realizes that he can go back kind of to the first, the first time they met with the first tape. And for the duration of the tape, that's how long he gets to sort of be back in his body, kind of observing, but then starting to exert an influence as well. And for us, it was that joy of fulfilling that yearning of going back. Really brilliant for writing, as anybody, you know, knows, if you want to write period piece in writing, you bang on some music.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:22Fearne Cotton?

  And you're there.

• 20:24Speaker 05

  And like you say, we, we do, we kind of, we've all soundtrack our lives.

• 20:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 05

  Through music. Me and my friends will sing along. We know all the same songs.

• 20:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 05

  Our kids have their own set, but they also, we have family songs that we all sing together.

• 20:36Speaker 03

  And we've got music from them as well, you know.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  We soundtrack as well, you know.

• 20:40Speaker 03

  So it's been really.

• 20:42Speaker 05

  Des Ray, first record she played for me.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  That was my very, um, that was the song I put on the, uh, radio for you in Radio Essex on the day we got the book deal.

• 20:52Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you dedicated a song on the radio.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  I dedicated a song. And we weren't going out. But then.

• 20:57Fearne Cotton?

  That's quite a bold move. That's quite a statement. That's quite obvious. That's quite obvious what you're saying there.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  You've got to be.

• 21:02Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, both your characters promise to not make changes when they revisit past moments, but both break that promise if that isn't giving too much away to people that haven't read the book yet. So I think it also gives the reader some moral questions to ponder, like, would you mess around with the past? It's a really, it's a tempting thing. Yes, you can make that promise, but when you're back there and you're offered the opportunity to make things better in the future, would you do that? Have you thought about what your own reactions to that would be if you were put in that situation?

• 21:33Speaker 05

  In a way, Adam and Jules' reactions in the book are ours. Because, because we sat there and we, so if this was a thriller, obviously you'd kind of go, right, we're going to go back and assassinate this person and change world history. But actually, Jo and I were going, what would you do? And our first thing was, I mean, Jamie and I, come on, we've seen Back to the Future, we know what happened. Adam and Jules would know, they've seen the Polaroid fading with their kids on it. So we decided our guiding star for them had to be, don't change things, because if you change things, you might change your kids. And that's the golden rule. So they go back with this golden rule in their head going, okay, we're not going to change big things. But of course, it's tempting. And then we were going, well, what would we do?

• 22:10Speaker 03

  And it's the little things.

• 22:13Speaker 05

  That is a changeable scene, because once you've done one thing, it's like a lot of things in life, once you've given in to a little temptation, it's a lot easier to give in to the next one.

• 22:21Fearne Cotton?

  Totally.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  And it's also that thing where they, it, it creates this instant deceit between them, even though they're sharing this very secret thing that they're doing, which they're sort of pretending for a while is making them closer. Actually, it's.

• 22:36Speaker 05

  Like date-like for what?

• 22:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:38Speaker 05

  They go down with a bottle of wine, let's go time travelling.

• 22:40Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  It actually then becomes quite pernicious and, and dangerous. And, and it was a really interesting look for us at nostalgia. Because as Emily mentioned earlier, we got all our old videotapes out. And when I made those tapes of my babies and small children, I thought one day, one day in the future, I'll look at this and I'll just remember my beautiful parenting, how wonderful it was. No, it was fucking awful. I just, and also because, because I am the most irritating film director of all time. Do not let me make a movie, because I'm really bossy. I'm like, come over here, do your trick, do your trick, sing a song. I'm like so irritating, I want to stab myself in the head with a fork. But not only that, I am.

• 23:25Speaker 05

  It's not quite that bad.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  I'm filming this inanimate baby asleep, right? And I'm not filming my mum.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Or my dad, or my friends, I'm just filming, I can see my mum's feet, it's like, lift the camera, I just wanna see her face one more time, please. And then, and it made me feel quite depressed, because also it changes your memories, because I don't have, you, Emlyn's got an encyclopedic elephant memory for everything, I have a shocking memory, so I don't, but then the memories I do have, that kind of sense of a a time and a place, was kind of trashed by that. And I think nostalgia can really stop you in your tracks. And we're at a stage where our kids are leaving home, in fact, we are two weeks, we're ten days into the empty nest.

• 24:09Fearne Cotton?

  Wow, how's that going?

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Well, there's an enormous, I mean, there's an enormous amount of mugs in the cupboard. I mean, there's keys, who knew?

• 24:18Speaker 03

  But you're weird.

• 24:19Speaker 05

  You can buy just two pieces of chicken from the supermarket.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  I know, things can do, but there's also a lot of leftover food. Anyway, we digress. But anyway, yes, nostalgia is quite a weird one, and can really stop you if you look backwards too much.

• 24:32Speaker 05

  Adam and Jill is in the book, are very much at that point of being stuck when we meet them. We've called their surnames Hole, A because you can make a very silly joke about A, which is obvious, but it's also because they've kind of dug themselves in this hole where, for various reasons, and it's something I've been through over the last ten years, where you kind of go, oh, I was really good at doing that, why have I done that? Why have I made these decisions professionally, all this kind of stuff? And we wanted them to be at that point where, like we were a bit, going, are our best days behind us? Is this, is this it? And they're at that point, and then we want to sort of move them forward to where they actually got to reexamine those times and go, A, were they as good as I remember?

• 25:16Speaker 05

  Is my memory telling me the truth?

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 05

  I mean, what can I learn from this about maybe how we've lost intimacies? How do we get those intimacies back? And hopefully by the end of the book, where they're a couple who are starting to have dug themselves out of this hole and are starting to look to the future again with some hope.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  It's such a cracking idea.

• 25:37Speaker 06

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet.

• 25:39Speaker 07

  Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer.

• 25:45Speaker 06

  With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work.

• 25:56Speaker 07

  That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

• 26:00Speaker 06

  Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 26:07Speaker 07

  That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 26:10Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 26:40Speaker 06

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  Hello, this is Suzy Ruffel. And Maisie Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey, Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yeah. A comedy entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh, is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife.

• 27:38Fearne Cotton?

  From Falkland, tuck in, baby.

• 27:43Fearne Cotton?

  When you were parsing the manuscript between each other, was there ever a moment where either of you read the other person's chapter and said, no, no, that can't happen, but that's a no, change that?

• 27:55Speaker 04

  Um, there were a couple of things where he nicked a joke.

• 27:59Speaker 05

  No, you nicked a joke.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  No, you nicked a joke. And I was like, no, that's my joke. And you go, yeah, but I've done it better.

• 28:05Fearne Cotton?

  Brilliant.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  So those kind of rows. So, yeah, some, some things, but we was quite nice, sort of surprising each other. So there was one scene that I wrote where Jules goes back for bath time. And when I, and it was on the kind of plan, she would have this lovely moment where she goes back and she looks at her babies and they're in the bath and she's, we hear her thoughts, like, our Jules from the now. And she's going back and she's looking at her babies, she's looking at the gorgeous, but she can hear the thoughts of her younger self. And her younger self is not, is ignoring the children in the bath. She's cross that Adam's at the pub and he hasn't come home and she's.

• 28:42Speaker 05

  Texting Chardonnay.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  And she's like, she wants to go and drink and she wants to not do the witching hour. And I observe her and I wrote the scene of her being really cross with her children and not paying any attention and being across that she has to read them a story whilst modern day Jules is, her heart is breaking because she's like, if I would give anything to have that back.

• 29:03Fearne Cotton?

  That bit really hit me, reading that bit.

• 29:04Speaker 04

  And it was really, I wasn't expecting to write it like that. And you certainly weren't expecting to read it.

• 29:09Speaker 05

  It hit me as well. I, I actually cried reading that. And the, it's one of those really odd scenes because if you wrote that in a plan, and as you were asking earlier, we really did have to plan this book.

• 29:18Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 05

  If you wrote that in a plan, you, you just wouldn't do it because it's kind of on the surface, it looks like a really unsympathetic thing to have a character think. But, and the reason I found it terrible because it's kind of like, it's, it's, it's raw, it's really, and we did want the book to be honest, but that bit was almost too raw for me to read because it's kind of like, no, do you know what? That is what young parenting is like sometimes.

• 29:37Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's fucking hard, it's brutal.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  You're learning as you go, you're knackered, there's all this stuff going on and there are inequalities and it's, and rage that comes with it. So, yeah, so there were bits that shocked.

• 29:49Fearne Cotton?

  Because I had like, my son turned 13 a couple of weeks ago. So naturally I was like looking at all of these toddler videos and baby videos on my laptop and like. I can't remember him like that. And oh my God, look at him. And he's so adorable. And then I had to check myself and go, yeah, but he was also like running off the bed and ended up in A and E. Because he was being a lunatic or was refusing to get in the bath to the point where I would cry because I didn't know what I meant to do when the kid just won't get in the bath. Like all the stuff that you forget because you're just looking at the cute little videos that you've got there. So of course, you can be cross at yourself retrospectively like, oh, I should have just been a bit more relaxed, whatever. But you're exhausted. You're overwhelmed at that point when you've got young kids. You're maybe trying to work like I was at the time. And it's, you know, you do have to check yourself when you look back.

• 30:33Fearne Cotton?

  But then equally, you know, you do underappreciate it in the moment because you're consumed with the task at hand, which is practically exhausting.

• 30:43Speaker 05

  And life, all of it.

• 30:45Fearne Cotton?

  And life, and life.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  But also that's sort of like, that's the real kind of lesson of it. And it was a real lesson of her, that Jules does in the book, that it doesn't have to be perfect. And actually.

• 30:55Speaker 05

  It can't be perfect.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  And the fact that it's not perfect is what makes it good, you know? And I think that it's a real, it was a really liberating thing to write, certainly for us and to really discuss, you know, is happiness is learning to love what you already have.

• 31:10Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  And that's, and when you, when you really think about that, that just makes you kind of go, oh yeah, actually it's fine. I don't have to be perfect. It's fine. I'm fine as I am. It's great.

• 31:20Fearne Cotton?

  God, yes, absolutely.

• 31:22Speaker 03

  It's absolutely fine. And I think in this day and age where everybody looks at Instagram and thinks everybody else is having a perfect life, there isn't a perfect life. It's just rubbish.

• 31:29Fearne Cotton?

  A load of crap.

• 31:30Speaker 03

  You know, which is why we love the happy place because you are keeping it real for us.

• 31:34Fearne Cotton?

  We really do try. We really do try. Was it hard to switch off from this idea? Because when you know you've got a good idea, there's no better feeling. As creative people, when you're like, oh God, this is so exciting. It's all consuming anyway. But when you're writing as a duo and you live together and you're married and you're with each other all the, most of the time. Can you ever just talk about other things or switch off from it in, in the moment when you're, when you're writing it?

• 32:00Speaker 05

  I think not with this.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  No, no, it was all consuming.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  We gave ourselves a really nice gift at the beginning, which is we said, right, we're just going to use our voices in this. And the characters aren't us, but there are definitely elements of us in there. There are definitely elements of our life. It's set in Brighton, the pubs and the cafes and everything in there. You walk out of our door, they're kind of there. So because we were using our authentic voices.

• 32:26Speaker 05

  If we were having a chat in the pub and Joe had said something about what it used to be like parenting, yeah, I'm gonna nick that. I'm gonna, I am, I am gonna put that in the book. So we were, we were doing that awful thing. And if anybody's married to a writer or any kind of creator, they, they will know it's hideous. If they've got a notepad by the bed, they're waking up in the middle of the night. It's just, it's just this awful, there's two of us doing it now.

• 32:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 05

  And then I'm thinking, well, what's she writing down as well? Is it gonna be the same chat that we had earlier?

• 32:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to get in there first.

• 32:55Speaker 05

  It did become, it became immersive.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  It did become immersive, but it was, it was not without its problems because we realised that we have very different styles. So I am really fast, mainly because my mum, bless her, made me go on a touch typing course when I was seventeen.

• 33:13Fearne Cotton?

  Amazing.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  Which was possibly the best thing she ever did. I wanted to go to Paris with my boyfriend. I was furious, sullen, horrible to her about the whole thing, but I learnt to touch type at the speed I can think accurately.

• 33:26Fearne Cotton?

  Love.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Right? So I'm very fast, but I'm a fast thinker anyway. And I will, and I will just write really, really fast.

• 33:32Fearne Cotton?

  Is this leading to Emlyn is slow?

• 33:33Speaker 03

  Emlyn is really slow.

• 33:35Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  So I will finish my chapter and I'll hand it over and I'll be like, come on, I want the feedback now. No, no, have you read it?

• 33:40Speaker 05

  She's like a puppy.

• 33:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm you, Josie. I'm the same. Yeah.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  And then, and then he takes ages with his chapter. I'm like.

• 33:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. And you don't wanna lose the creative flow. You want the book back so you can start your bit again. Yeah. So how did you?

• 33:55Speaker 05

  It is a nightmare. I think Joe, I think Joe can write kind of a four thousand word chapter well in four days. And it will take me kind of two and a half weeks to still not be happy with it. And so, so Joe, Joe had a lot of kind of sort of standing around time while I'm, you know, creating my masterpiece upstairs.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  To be fair though, I'm, I'm quite, I managed to.

• 34:21Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sure.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  There's never been more sea swimming done.

• 34:25Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, heaven. And do you think you learned anything new about each other during the process of this? As you say, it's not you, but there's intimate parts of your brain that you want to put forth with these characters and things you want to explore with the time travel element. Did you go, oh, I didn't think you thought like that?

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think for me, I mean, Jo and I have been on very different kind of writing journeys since we first got together. So Jo's writing journey has been one of writing a book regularly and getting paid.

• 34:55Speaker 05

  That's how I would describe Jo's writing journey. Mine is writing lots of books and occasionally getting paid.

• 35:00Fearne Cotton?

  Right.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  So for me, I've had sort of guilt over the years over, I mean, I famously wrote, spent three years writing a book that didn't ship. So for me, I've had a thing where I wasted those three years. What was I thinking? And so almost looking back over time and going, of these 25 years, I've wasted seven of these years because I was pursuing projects that didn't come.

• 35:23Fearne Cotton?

  But do you really feel like that?

• 35:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I genuinely did. That didn't come to fruition. And one of the nicest things about this book is kind of Adam sort of looks back at different aspects of his life, that that's been a waste of time. I should have done this instead. And what I've realised is that all those things that you're doing that you think are, don't lead anywhere. One, you're enjoying doing them.

• 35:42Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 35:43Speaker 05

  That's a great thing in itself. It doesn't kind of matter where they go.

• 35:46Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 35:46Speaker 05

  But B, they do all add together into this kind of mush that leads you to where you want to.

• 35:52Fearne Cotton?

  Yes.

• 35:52Speaker 05

  So for example, even writing this book with Jo, I can say was only made possible due to all the crap books I wrote.

• 35:59Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I agree. That's why I think you should never have regret about any of it or feel like anything's a waste of time because it's not.

• 36:05Speaker 05

  No.

• 36:05Fearne Cotton?

  I don't think it ever is.

• 36:06Speaker 04

  And so I think that made it, I think it really, for me as well, was about kind of like looking at the past.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  And at a stage where I've been feeling very anxious and worried about my kids leaving home and was I a good enough mother was all of that it's just gone because I kind of managed to process it out through writing about it and I do feel and I do feel that because we've been on this adventure together doing a book together which has just been so much fun and we wouldn't and and doing all of it together like doing this together doing you know all the stuff that's happened with it has been so much fun but it also feels like we're back to us and we can do our own adventure again so we're going off travelling and we're doing really great things just together again and it feels like a new and a whole new relationship in a way.

• 36:52Fearne Cotton?

  It's so exciting.

• 36:53Speaker 05

  A whole new world, there's a song, there's a song coming.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Watch out.

• 36:56Fearne Cotton?

  Well, I'm going to ask you about music now because obviously you both have your music preferences and we can read about a lot of those in the book, which bring up all sorts of brilliant memories for you. This doesn't have to be memory related, but we're making a happy place playlist with songs that just make you feel great. Would you pick a song that you've written about in the book or would it be something completely different and you can have a song each?

• 37:18Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 37:19Speaker 05

  Mine's easy. It's kind of, um, Don't You Want Me, Humanly.

• 37:23Fearne Cotton?

  Great song.

• 37:24Speaker 05

  I think the only reason Jo and I are writing together is because of that song. It was one of those duets. I remember hearing it. My sister was really cool. She's a couple of years older than me and she was this really cool kid in the eighties. And so I used to nick all her sort of now, you know, tapes and all this kind of stuff. And I remember her prancing around and Phil Okey, I thought, was the business. I remember the dance routines that my sister was doing. You could just copy what was on top of the pops. But for me, that was the original duet. It's this thing of two voices. It's always got a killer bass line. And I remember when Jo and I first decided to write Come Together when we were kind of twenty twenty seven, that was the touchstone we were talking about. It's a, it's a, it's a romance with a boy talking and a girl replying. And then, and it's the

• 38:09Speaker 05

  friction and the sparks between it. So for me, that's it.

• 38:12Fearne Cotton?

  Great song.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  That's a really good one. I think grew in the heart. Just because it's that we, we had to include that.

• 38:19Speaker 07

  That that bassline in the in the in the book.

• 38:24Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, so good.

• 38:25Speaker 07

  And every time I hear that riff, I am like, I am up.

• 38:30Fearne Cotton?

  Buzzing.

• 38:30Speaker 07

  I am up. Bring me my platform boots. I am off to the dance floor.

• 38:34Fearne Cotton?

  Get me a gin and tonic, let's go.

• 38:36Speaker 07

  Yeah, so, uh, yeah, there's, I mean, there's so many songs that we we really loved. Uh, and we really included in the book that were just magic to us and magic to the characters. But yeah, I think.

• 38:46Fearne Cotton?

  They're two very happy songs.

• 38:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:47Fearne Cotton?

  I love them. And where are your happy places or might be a joint place?

• 38:52Speaker 07

  Oh, we have quite a few. Um, one of our happiest places is Brighton Beach. Where it's just down the road from us and I see swimming all the time. We walk the dog there all the time. So that's really special to us. But I, we also have a house in Mallorca. And which we call camping with bricks and, um.

• 39:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, house is a generous word.

• 39:14Speaker 07

  It's very, very shabby.

• 39:15Fearne Cotton?

  Has it got a roof?

• 39:16Speaker 07

  It's, well, it's just.

• 39:17Speaker 05

  It's got a leaky roof.

• 39:18Fearne Cotton?

  Okay, great.

• 39:19Speaker 07

  It's got a leaky roof.

• 39:19Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 39:20Speaker 07

  Um, but it's sort of in this really wild, magical garden and there's a. And there's a bench outside the back door, which I sit on in the morning and just watch the garden come to life. And it's, and and the smell of the eucalyptus and the lemon trees and the olive trees. And there is, and the hot ground and it feels like all of the pieces of me come into land there.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  I remember the loveliest thing I've ever seen, Jo, with Jo. Jo was, Jo was ill a few, a few years ago. And, um, we went out there on a holiday afterwards, after she'd had some treatment. And just sitting there and it's, and it's, you, it's like watching an explosion sort of coming back together. It was really nice. It was just like, it was like, wow. And then the kids are kind of, you know, pressing about and falling over. It's like.

• 40:05Speaker 07

  It's great, though. We're good.

• 40:07Speaker 05

  The show goes on.

• 40:08Speaker 07

  It's somewhere with no technology.

• 40:10Speaker 05

  The circus mistress is back.

• 40:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 40:13Speaker 07

  But it's somewhere with no technology, no screens. It's very nature. We sit, we watch the sunset there and it's, it's somewhere really special to us. So.

• 40:20Fearne Cotton?

  Blessful.

• 40:21Speaker 07

  I love that. I love being somewhere that's just completely.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  Natural and back to nature.

• 40:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm quite a townie.

• 40:28Fearne Cotton?

  And hot.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  And hot. I mean, I'm not great at the countryside. You like the countryside. We always have this. The kids were leaving home and we go so, so I've done some research. I found this island in Scotland that we can go to.

• 40:40Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, God, that is remote.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Where we can just go and there's, there's no technology, it's remote. Roxy up in the lawn took a side, went, is he trying to kill you?

• 40:49Fearne Cotton?

  That's what's happening.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  And I'm like, and I'm like, okay, yeah, no, I could, I could do it maybe for a, a month maybe, but I'd, I'd miss everybody. So I don't, I don't know. Yeah. I'm not sure about total isolation. I think I'll probably embrace it whilst I was there.

• 41:02Fearne Cotton?

  I think Brighton's a very good middle ground. You've got the expanse of the sea, so you can escape all the craziness and you've got a buzzing, vibrant, arty, creative town behind you. It's fantastic. I love it. Well, look, I'm so happy that your book is our Happy Place Book Club pick. I know that our readers and our listeners are going to just dive into this story, have pure escapism, but also learn a lot about themselves, maybe about their relationship if they're in one. I just know that it's going to be so enjoyed and I got so much from it. So thank you for writing it and thank you so much for being on Happy Place.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you so much.

• 41:36Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you. What lovely, lovely humans. And how weird is this? Well, we had a bit of a chat afterwards and one of their daughters lives on my street. What coincidence? So I've told them to tell her to come and say hi to me next time and I can wax lyrical about how much I love her parents. Brilliant humans, brilliant writers. What a book. Perfect escapism if you're looking for a good fiction, if you haven't yet read the book. All right, what are we reading next? Well, it's by Caro Claire Burke and it's called Yesteryear. Oh, this book. Holy shit, this book. The premise of this novel is so good.

• 42:16Fearne Cotton?

  Tradewife influencer Natalie is, in her words, "perfect at being alive." She lives in a beautiful, traditional farmhouse. Her husband's a handsome cowboy. Her kids have lovely manners. She makes homemade jam and everyone's incredibly jealous of her life online. What those followers don't know is that obviously she has a whole team of nannies and producers and industrial-grade ovens behind the scenes, making all this possible. Then, she suddenly wakes up, in the past, living an actual traditional wife life. The twist in this book is wild. You will not see it coming. If you want to get properly involved in the Happy Place Book Club, I really hope you do,

• 42:58Fearne Cotton?

  then you can find us on Instagram conveniently at Happy Place Book Club. Okay, back in a couple of days with another brand-new episode of Happy Place, which you're gonna love. Until then, a massive thanks again to Josie and Emlyn, and to you. Love you, bookworms.

• 43:33Fearne Cotton?

  Happy Place is researched by me, Fern Cotton. The producer is Anushka Tate at Happy Place Studios with studio engineering by Basil Oxtaby.

• 43:44Fearne Cotton?

  Because you didn't just say, "How can I provide these investments?" You'd be, "How do I holistically provide everything? How do I bring in the legal, the accounting, all this?

• 43:51Speaker 07

  And do it at a price point no one else is doing it." Learn more about how we approach wealth management at creativeplanning.com/integrated. Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 44:30Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody lose.

• 44:46Speaker 04

  Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers. At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.