“We Found A UFO At The Bottom Of The Baltic Sea!” -Treasure Hunter Dennis Asberg

Our American Alchemist this week is Dennis Asberg. https://www.oceanexplorer.se Join The American Alchemy Magazine (New!) ➤ https://substack.com/@americanalchemymagazine Sign Up With Our Sponsors Below For Exclusive Alchemy Deals! iRestore: Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code [JESSE25] at https://www.irestore.com/Jesse25 MUDWTR: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code [JESSE] at https://ambassadors.mudwtr.com/JESSE #mudwtrpod Swedish Treasure Hunter Dennis Asberg May Have Found a 60 Meter UFO on the Baltic Seafloor (With electromagnetic Anomalies, Right Angles, Corridors And It’s Not Attached To The Seabed Floor Like a Normal Geological Formation!) World-class Swedish wreck diver Dennis Åsberg, co-founder of Ocean X, reveals 15 years of data from the Baltic Sea Anomaly–a 60 meter disc-shaped structure at 90 meters depth producing GPS failures, electromagnetic interference, perfect right-angle geometry, and a new 2025 sub-bottom profile suggesting the object is detached from the seabed. His team has retrieved biological material, burned debris, basalt (in a region where it shouldn’t exist), and recorded temperature anomalies approaching 0°C directly over the structure.Åsberg, who has recovered Tsarist submarines, 1600s cognac shipments, and dozens of major wrecks, says this is the most anomalous discovery of his career. -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Website ➤ https://www.jesse-michels.com/ Merchandise ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] #balticsea #aliens #documentary #ocean Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 03:19 The Baltic Sea Anomaly 10:19 Diving To Sea Floor 19:48 Electromagnetic Mysteries 23:20 Biological Anomalies 35:29 Collaborations 47:06 Ontological Shock 01:09:35 The Nature of Discovery 01:24:55 The Quest for Answers 01:34:24 A Legacy for Future Generations iRestore: Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code [ALCHEMY] at https://www.irestore.com/ALCHEMY MUDWTR: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code [JESSE] at https://ambassadors.mudwtr.com/JESSE #mudwtrpod -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Website ➤ https://www.jesse-michels.com/ Merchandise ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] #balticsea #aliens #documentary #ocean Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 03:19 The Baltic Sea Anomaly 10:19 Diving To Sea Floor 19:48 Electromagnetic Mysteries 23:20 Biological Anomalies 35:29 Collaborations 47:06 Ontological Shock 01:09:35 The Nature of Discovery 01:24:55 The Quest for Answers 01:34:24 A Legacy for Future Generations Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  There we see a wreck and there we see something there. And then, this thing popping up on the screen.

• 1:09Jesse Michels?

  My next guest is a world-famous treasure hunter. You've heard that right.

• 1:15Jesse Michels?

  His name is Dennis Asberg. And this Swedish sensation is a real-life superhero out of a different era.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  I'm a curious guy. I've always been interested in finding things that nobody else has found.

• 1:28Jesse Michels?

  But on June 19th, 2011, his life's mission would change forever. From unearthing human treasure to unraveling the nature of reality itself. That's when he came upon what you might call an underwater UFO, or what's now known as a USO, an unidentified submersible object in the very remote Baltic Sea.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  It's something that makes our instruments go wild sometimes.

• 1:58Jesse Michels?

  It's on the ocean floor right now. So me, my crew and Amar Can Deal from Yes Theory went to go see it. Sitting 90 meters below the surface, 60 meters wide. This is one of the weirdest objects ever detected by humans in the ocean, period.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  Yes, round and then we have these corridors, you have angles, 90 degrees angles.

• 2:20Jesse Michels?

  When you say corridors, like...

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have a corridor and you have walls, flat walls.

• 2:25Jesse Michels?

  Wow. Dennis has now confirmed that it is not attached to the seabed floor. So it's not a natural geological formation.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I have never seen anything like that before, not let my colleagues either.

• 2:40Jesse Michels?

  Electromagnetic anomalies are rampant around it. It breaks down GPS, subsea rovers, drones.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  And then when we have used the RAV, the RAV stops working.

• 2:52Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:53Jesse Michels?

  We lost GPS?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Very close to...

• 2:55Jesse Michels?

  To the object?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:57Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god. We have video of smoke coming out of the water above the object, as if it's fuming or emitting gas.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  And then you see like it's from this hole, this milk is going and out.

• 3:12Jesse Michels?

  Like it was...

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Something is moving, yes, breathing.

• 3:14Jesse Michels?

  Breathing?

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16Jesse Michels?

  Almost like a biological organism or something.

• 3:20Jesse Michels?

  But it doesn't stop there. It was literally struck by lightning, an occurrence often considered a high watermark for its unlikeliness. We also have video of NATO ships encircling this object and tracking Dennis's Ocean X crew in the middle of the Baltic Sea.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  We had a meeting at the headquarters in Stockholm. I said to one of the people there, "Have you been there? Have you dived on it?" And he just looked at me, "No, no, no, no, we have not been there. But I am filming you, I have filmed you, so I know you have been there." Nothing, he don't say anything.

• 3:54Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 3:57Jesse Michels?

  You'll get to see the full extent of what we found at the end of this video. Whether this is an ancient sacred temple, a crashed unidentified flying object, or an unidentified submersible object, whatever this thing is, it's definitively weird. And like the object under the mesa at Skinwalker Ranch, it seems to have a life of its own. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and prepare to take a deep dive into the abyss with this week's amazing Swedish alchemist, Dennis Asberg.

• 5:04Jesse Michels?

  So we're 60 kilometers out at sea, kind of the epicenter between Finland and Sweden.

• 5:15Jesse Michels?

  We're right above the spot, right above the Baltic Sea anomaly.

• 5:20Jesse Michels?

  And it just feels like we're in the middle of the ocean, to be honest. It doesn't feel any different than anywhere else.

• 5:29Jesse Michels?

  One of our videographers, Philip, unfortunately threw up.

• 5:36Jesse Michels?

  I think I'm the only person who hasn't taken the seasickness medication, which is probably pretty stupid.

• 5:51Jesse Michels?

  Now we're sending the ROV down, the Remote Operated Vehicle. And we can see what it sees, although visibility will be low, so you can only see maybe max, maybe a foot in front of it. And then we're also going to be doing some sonar scanning and try to get a better understanding of the 3D structure that we're looking at with the Baltic Sea anomalies. And how deep is the object?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  90 meters.

• 6:18Jesse Michels?

  90 meters?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:22Jesse Michels?

  It's a very unconventional career that you have. When did you start to get into treasure hunting and exploring all of these unknown things in the ocean?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Exploring has been interesting, history and all that thing have been since I was a kid. Something I grew up with my parents, because they were also interested in that area, to find out things and search for things that nobody else have found. So it's a natural thing. I have, you know, grown up in a family that works, not works, but have an interest in that field.

• 6:58Jesse Michels?

  Was your father an explorer?

• 7:00Speaker 02

  No, he was a diver, but he have other job also, but he was a diver also.

• 7:04Jesse Michels?

  Okay. And did you grow up, you know, reading about explorer?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was the... yeah, yeah, of course, reading history books, of course, and fictions also. And going to these things with treasures and shipwrecks that have disappeared with interesting cargo. So that had been interesting for me and, you know, have always been the interest for me.

• 7:30Jesse Michels?

  What was the first shipwreck you went looking for?

• 7:33Speaker 02

  When I really go into commercial diving and in that area was for, I mean, it must be 15, 20, 20 years ago. Was together with Peter Lindberg, my friend, and we did exploration in Baltic Sea. And we found wrecks with liquor, cognac and wine and different type of things, booze ships.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  That's the money, that's a.

• 8:00Jesse Michels?

  The booze are still valuable.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, of course.

• 8:03Jesse Michels?

  And it's still drinkable and.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, some bottles are still drinkable. We um we found also one of the oldest wine in the world from sixteen hundred.

• 8:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Drinkable.

• 8:14Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  And cognac on its way to this Russian czar. Uh, drinkable and we have tried it also, Peter and I, and was very strong.

• 8:24Jesse Michels?

  Unbelievable. What's uh some of the more interesting shipwrecks that you found or maybe maybe one in particular that you remember that has a story attached to it?

• 8:33Speaker 02

  The Baltic Sea anomaly.

• 8:34Jesse Michels?

  Except the Baltic Sea anomaly, we're building up to that.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's many, but I must say, but one very interesting uh wreck we found was two thousand fifteen, we found the Russian czar's submarine Som.

• 8:49Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, built in US nineteen oh four.

• 8:52Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  And the Russian czar bought it and used it in the war against Japan. And it was out on a and on a mission in in the Swedish water, should not be in the Swedish water, but it was. Uh, and it was a collision between a Swedish cargo ship and this submarine. So the periscope went off and eighteen man down to the bottom.

• 9:18Jesse Michels?

  How do you, what sensors do you use to locate an object?

• 9:22Speaker 02

  Uh, it's very easy. It's a size scan sonar. It's a it's a sonar that looks down. It's two D, two D image you get.

• 9:30Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Of it. Uh, so and then we use ROV and of course we have dive on it also.

• 9:36Jesse Michels?

  What's ROV?

• 9:37Speaker 02

  A remote operating robot, you know, underwater.

• 9:41Jesse Michels?

  Little subsea drone.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:42Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  So that we have used and uh after that we did dives on it also to really identify it and see if it was that submarine we have, we thought it was.

• 9:54Jesse Michels?

  So interesting. And so when you find these shipwrecks, you know, uh with cognac and wine and that sort of thing, is this your business? Do you then go out and sell that on the market?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  I wish, I wish, I wish, you know.

• 10:07Jesse Michels?

  Or do you have finance?

• 10:08Speaker 02

  No, we have, we have, as you know, we have the situation here as we have in other countries, so called in the whole world with the pandemic and the virus and and also the the the war and lots of things are going on. So it had not been easy. Uh, so we tried to sell this uh wine and cognac and things on the market. And the interest was zero.

• 10:29Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  No, nobody was interested.

• 10:32Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:33Jesse Michels?

  That's why you said you drank it.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I drank it myself at home now instead. No, uh, no, no. So it had been very difficult because we have spent lots of time and money on this project because we believe this is can this is can finance our other projects.

• 10:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  But the interest had been weak, very weak when it's come to that.

• 10:53Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:54Jesse Michels?

  So do you ever, are you ever able to sell or make a business out of, you know, some of the stuff you find? Or is it mostly just for passion or for history?

• 11:04Speaker 02

  I mean, in that case, when it's talking about the the bottles of champagne and cognac and wine and things like that. Of course, we have it and hopefully we're gonna sell it in the future.

• 11:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  But I don't, I, you know, I won't have lots of money for it.

• 11:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  So, uh, but that is something I I don't think about so much now.

• 11:23Jesse Michels?

  Should invite myself over for a drink.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  You can get the drink, of course.

• 11:28Jesse Michels?

  Tell us about the Baltic Sea anomaly.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  The Baltic Sea anomaly, yeah.

• 11:31Jesse Michels?

  What is it?

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Wow, good question. The Baltic Sea anomaly, okay, the begins like this, we were out on a mission. Uh, this time to find a rack, special rack with champagne on it. Uh, we were out for uh almost a week and then we have problems where the boat is beginning to leak and we almost sunk with the boat. So it was very scary, but we we managed to come to harbor in Finland to repair the boat and uh we had been out for one week then. And then we decided to go out to a new area and search there with the site Scanzona to see if we find this special wreck.

• 12:14Speaker 00

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• 12:44Speaker 01

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• 13:16Speaker 02

  We were out and we're searching a new area. We were quite tired, I must say, after one week. And then we had all the problems with the boat, the leaking and so on. So we were tired and disappointed. We have not find a wreck yet. But now we're going to search in a new area and hopefully we're going to find it. It was night time, I think it's one or two at night. Me and Peter and our friend Floris, we are sitting in front of the screen. And we have the side scan sonar in the water. So there we see a wreck and there we see something and there. And then this thing popping up on the screen. This huge thing.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  I mean, we're talking about 60 meter in diameter. And it's round. And you have this track at the bottom. So I remember Peter laughing and, "Oh Dennis, you know, you're a fool." And I was, "What?" Then we began really to look at it and it was so odd. And nobody else have seen anything like that before, anything like that. And it round potholes you can see, of course, mines and things from the Second World War. But in this case, we're talking about a big thing sixty meter in diameter. So it's three thousand square meters, round thing in the middle of the ocean.

• 14:43Jesse Michels?

  Three thousand square meters.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:45Jesse Michels?

  So huge.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's huge.

• 14:46Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:47Jesse Michels?

  And nobody had ever seen anything like it and it was it was round, it was like a circular?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yes, round and then we have these corridors, you have angles, ninety degrees angles and so on, so.

• 14:59Jesse Michels?

  So it looked like a artificial structure, basically?

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, this looks like that. We went home then after we had done this with the side scan sonar. And we go deeper into look at this data we have on it. And Peter and I were sitting in front of computer measuring, you know, that okay, what is possible? Can it be that or construction from the military time or from the world war and so on? And it cannot be any things like that. And then we talked to friends in the same area as we are in US, Australia and Europe. And showed them the pictures and they said, no, we have never seen anything like that. What have you found? Where did you find this? And no, no, no, no, we don't say anything about that.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  So then, after one week or something, we don't get any help. I decide and or we decide and to go up public with it. Because I want to have somebody can say what it is. Because we we have experience, of course, when it's come to exploring and shipwrecks. And we have never seen anything, but perhaps somebody have seen something like that. So I talked to a journalist here in Stockholm, Expressen is a big newspaper. And I went there with my laptop and showed them the data. And they, you know, they were very surprised about that.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  And then I explained for them the purpose we were out there was researching for that and that wreck. And then we found this instead. So they were, oh, wow. And then they're sending up me to the office and I talked to the manager or chief there.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  And then I understand that they are interested to public and go out with this information. And I said, okay, do it. Hopefully we find somebody that can help us with this. Because we don't know, we don't know. And we have friends that don't even know about it. So, uh, uh, that was the start of something crazy. Yeah, it was. Because I was never in the spotlight before.

• 17:12Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  And in one, I mean, the first week was in the Swedish news and then Scandinavian news. And then after that week after, it was international news. And my phone is ringing all the time, day and night, day and night. And I turn, I turn it off sometimes because I was so tired. So I, I talk about the same thing, like over and over and over with all the journalists. And I say the same thing. I find something. I don't know what it is. I don't know. But it's odd, it's strange, it's unique. We have never seen anything like that.

• 17:45Jesse Michels?

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• 18:30Jesse Michels?

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• 19:12Speaker 02

  No, it's plenty of them. It's a, it's a big object. And then you have corridors with angles and you have also holes in it. A hole with like two meters in diameter with a frame around it.

• 19:25Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  And, and also.

• 19:27Jesse Michels?

  When you say corridors, like, like?

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have a corridor and you have walls, flat walls.

• 19:32Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Totally flat.

• 19:34Jesse Michels?

  It's like almost like a.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  And then you have ninety degrees angles like that.

• 19:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  So, um, I don't think, I'm not sure. That's what we try to figure out now. Can the nature create this? I don't know.

• 19:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  But it's so odd.

• 19:50Jesse Michels?

  It doesn't look like coral or any sort of rock that you would see on the seafloor. And you must be familiar as somebody who has probably traversed a lot of the world and looked at the ocean floor for a lot of your life.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:03Jesse Michels?

  And I'm sure a lot of the people working with you at the time as well.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So it's, no, it's very, very strange. And not only that, it's looks odd and strange. We have been out there a couple of times and every time we have been out there, we have problems with our equipment.

• 20:23Jesse Michels?

  What, what just happened to the boat?

• 20:30Speaker 02

  He lost it.

• 20:31Jesse Michels?

  He lost GPS?

• 20:33Speaker 02

  You were very close to the.

• 20:35Jesse Michels?

  To the object?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:37Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god.

• 20:42Jesse Michels?

  Like what happened?

• 20:43Speaker 02

  The radar showing things that should not, are not there. So one time we are there and the radar is working properly, but then something popping up on the radar. And, and I remember Peter said to me that Dennis, look at the screen and I look, what? Okay. And I then go out and. We are alone here, but should be something 150 meters from us. Nothing there. And then, another position. Another position.

• 21:12Jesse Michels?

  How big are the objects showing up on the radar?

• 21:14Speaker 02

  No, no, you cannot see how big it is on radar.

• 21:16Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  But you see something is there.

• 21:18Jesse Michels?

  Some object.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  And then when we have used the ROV, the ROV stops working.

• 21:25Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 21:26Speaker 02

  Yep. And when we have dive on it, the camera stops working, the light stops working.

• 21:31Jesse Michels?

  So there must be some sort of electromagnetic...

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Probably. And the GPS function is not working properly either.

• 21:38Jesse Michels?

  Really? So there's maybe magnetic anomalies as well where...

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I think. Every time we are there, even now, in June when we were out, we have the same problem.

• 21:48Jesse Michels?

  Equipment malfunction every time?

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:51Jesse Michels?

  You gotta go down in a Faraday cage or something?

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that was very strange also that we have these problems. And we were out again now this June.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  With another ship, Stockholm University's own ship, with their own equipment, not mine equipment.

• 22:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  That's perfect. And it's much better equipment that I have.

• 22:16Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  That's all things.

• 22:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  But, so we were out and I remember I talked to the crew and also Tomas, the captain on board, and mentioned for him all the experience we have out there with all the... The equipment stopped working and all the stuff, you know, GPS and so on. And then we were quite close and Tomas said to me, "Okay, let's start then. We begin with a multi-beam, so we get the 3D image of the object."

• 22:45Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  Perfect weather, good conditions for everything. And then we go over the object and Tomas said to me, "Dennis, we have problems with the GPS function." And I look at him, "Are you joking with me?" "No, Dennis, we have problems with it."

• 23:03Jesse Michels?

  With the GPS?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  "Do you used to have problems with it?" Nope.

• 23:07Jesse Michels?

  What happened with the GPS?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  It's not working. Lost connection totally.

• 23:11Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 23:13Speaker 02

  And then we go over it and go back and the same thing again.

• 23:20Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:21Jesse Michels?

  So interferes with radio signals.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:23Jesse Michels?

  Changes compasses.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 23:25Jesse Michels?

  Messes with the subsea drone and rover. So there's there's some sort of electromagnetic thing going on down there. And you said you know what the color is now. What's the color?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Stefan was one of the divers down there, uh, two thousand twelve, uh, and he brushed off the sediment of it and it's dark black, dark gray, almost black.

• 23:48Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. So he touched it?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 23:51Jesse Michels?

  And when he touched it?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  He tried to take samples also. Did not manage that either.

• 23:54Jesse Michels?

  Why?

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Too hard.

• 23:55Jesse Michels?

  Too hard?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:57Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. And when he touched it, did he feel anything or notice anything?

• 24:01Speaker 02

  That I don't know. He did not mention anything about that. But he he said it's very odd.

• 24:06Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  And he had never seen anything like that before. And then one thing I remember is coming up, he said to me that the temperature usually at that, that is around four to five degrees Celsius.

• 24:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Now it's most almost zero.

• 24:25Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  That, you know, is not possible.

• 24:27Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Uh, so almost zero degrees.

• 24:31Jesse Michels?

  Almost freezing.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  So it's alarming in his equipment.

• 24:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he must have been very cold.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Also super, all the water is a little bit, uh, the temperature.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  And then he go to a hole like twenty centimeters in diameter. And when you're down there, you have the sediment and you get like milky, the waters get milky, as you understand?

• 24:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, dusty.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, dusty. And then you see like it's from this hole, this milk is going and out, and in and out.

• 25:05Jesse Michels?

  Like it was?

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Something is moving. Yes, breathing.

• 25:07Jesse Michels?

  Breathing?

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:08Jesse Michels?

  Almost like a biological organism or something?

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow. But it was hard.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:16Jesse Michels?

  Too hard to get a sample from.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you cannot. Perhaps if you drill, you're core drilling or something.

• 25:21Jesse Michels?

  But there's, there's a hole where,

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:24Jesse Michels?

  sand is coming in and out.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:26Jesse Michels?

  That's so fascinating. If, all these anomalies that you've experienced.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:31Jesse Michels?

  Do they increase when you get closer to the object? So I guess the way you would instantiate that would be like, if you had the ROV, or if you had maybe a compass and you were getting closer, does it get more intense the closer you get? The anomalies get more intense the closer?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  That, yeah, we have problems with the equipment, the closer we get.

• 25:54Jesse Michels?

  And it's, and it's a clear rate of acceleration or increase?

• 25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:59Jesse Michels?

  Of the, oh wow. So it really feels like it's a source of.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  I forgot something, it's important. Two thousand and nineteen, we were out and, I, I know, we were out in Finland and did diving work there. And we had some friends there that we have done expeditions with before. And I remember they laugh, you know, Finnish guys. You know, Dennis, you're yoking and you know, they don't believe in that. And it's a stone you have found, they said to me. Yeah, of course, perhaps it's a stone, but still it's unique. You have not seen anything like, no, no, that's right, Dennis. So next, next time we're going out, can you come along then with your equipment?

• 26:44Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, he said. And then after a couple of months, I said to them that we're gonna go out now on a, on a mission. You wanna come along with your equipment, your ROV and everything? So they come to Sweden and go out with a ship. And Peter and I are just, you know, checking what they're doing with their equipment and coming to the spot and, they go down with the ROV and he's sitting there and, and the first thing, when he coming down there, I say, okay, dude, this is, this is strange. This must be man-made. This is constructed.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  And I just, "What? What did I hear?" And I looked at Peter and he said, "Yeah." So...

• 27:49Jesse Michels?

  So even the skeptics, when you bring them to see it firsthand...

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, they understand directly was something for sure that we have found there. Something that is odd and, uh, yeah.

• 28:02Jesse Michels?

  And you must be familiar, given that you have an interest in UFOs, with the fact that you have electromagnetic anomalies occurring in many UFO sightings and cases. Even Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you see the main character with this, you know, big sort of, uh, almost like sunburn because they're basically experiencing this sort of, like, basically a redshift of, you know, uh, electromagnetic light. And, uh, you know, Travis Walton is another good example, where he's in Arizona with his friends. He gets out of the truck, he touches the UFO and he gets almost kind of zapped because of the electromagnetic activity. There's geomagnetic anomalies where a lot of UFOs show up. So places like Skinwalker Ranch or Mount Sengun Mori, uh, in Japan,

• 28:47Jesse Michels?

  uh, next to the Fukushima Prefecture, their nuclear civilian grid. You always have these geomagnetic anomalies. Heselden, you have, you know, magnetic anomalies as well.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:58Jesse Michels?

  So that is a common theme in UFOs.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. I remember when he said also, uh, when we, he was down with the RV, this Finnish guy, and he said, "It looks like a power line. It's something very, something like a power line. We don't have any power lines there, nothing at that."

• 29:19Jesse Michels?

  It looked like a power line?

• 29:20Speaker 02

  No, but, you know, they're, they're, uh, with the instrument they're using on the RV, uh, was something that is putting out energy of some kind.

• 29:33Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  It is, it looks very strange. It might, it might be a cloud of methane, that it's a methane seep from the bottom.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  How close we can go, but we have seen this growing now for a while.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  It's lots of things and even weather phenomena like thunder, thunder and lots of things just on the spot.

• 30:08Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:09Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  I forgot lots of things when I'm talking to you, but lots of things have happened out there.

• 30:16Jesse Michels?

  Thunder on the spot?

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:21Jesse Michels?

  And like nowhere else?

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:23Jesse Michels?

  And like the, the, the, does the lightning hit the water?

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:27Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:28Jesse Michels?

  So it's like a conductor or something?

• 30:31Speaker 02

  It's true, it's true.

• 30:32Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  We have filmed that also.

• 30:34Jesse Michels?

  You filmed that?

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:35Jesse Michels?

  Oh, this is amazing. This is the most exciting thing ever.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  So now all the, all the things together that, you know, you cannot let it go.

• 30:44Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  You must. That's why I have fought for this for so long time.

• 30:49Jesse Michels?

  I mean, if you just list the anomalies, you have biological material in a dead sea.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:54Jesse Michels?

  You have right, you know, right angle corners.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:57Jesse Michels?

  You have an object that's 180 meters, so it's very big.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Jesse Michels?

  You have, it's hard, you see that's detached from the seafloor, you have electromagnetic anomalies that it's causing. Then you have thunder conducting, hitting it. I think that's extremely, and then you have a team of people who have been diving for each for decades.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:17Jesse Michels?

  All having tons of data points and they've never seen anything like it. So I think that's very worthy of investigation.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:25Jesse Michels?

  And so some people might be wondering because it's, you described it as a round object, but it also had right angles, you know, and right angle corners and stuff. How does that work exactly?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  It's not a flat, you know, disk as many perhaps things. It's a quite rough surface around it.

• 31:42Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  And then you have these corridors and angles. So, and, and it's not round in the corners. It's rough, it's perhaps it's broken.

• 31:54Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I have been there for a while.

• 31:56Jesse Michels?

  So the circumference is 180 meters?

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you look at from upside, it's round, but still it's.

• 32:03Jesse Michels?

  There's some jagged right angles and stuff.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:05Jesse Michels?

  And right angles in a way where it's not just a little sliver or whatever. It's like a longer right angles that apply artificial construction.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:15Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating man.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is for sure.

• 32:21Speaker 00

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• 33:27Speaker 02

  Have you seen all the remote viewers? Have done all the things about Baltic Sea?

• 33:34Jesse Michels?

  No, have they?

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Remote, yeah.

• 33:37Jesse Michels?

  When we were in Sweden, I called Joseph McMonigal and Angela Ford, and they helped us with this retreat. So we should, ah, do we? We don't have reception, right? Or do I?

• 33:48Speaker 02

  No, no, we don't have any connection.

• 33:49Jesse Michels?

  I was gonna say, I could easily call them. Well, what did they say? What did the remote viewer say?

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Oh, that is constructed, and it's, uh, somehow it's made of gold.

• 33:59Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a some kind of energy source.

• 34:03Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:06Jesse Michels?

  Energy source or what?

• 34:07Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 34:09Jesse Michels?

  So which remote viewers say this?

• 34:11Speaker 02

  There are lots of it. I have, I can send you the link.

• 34:14Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah. Please, I'm gonna write it down.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  But the cool thing is also when the Finnish guy, our colleague from Finland was here, he mentioned, okay, this is man-made. This must be constructed. It's, uh, and I, and it's looks like it's a high voltage thing. And I just, high voltage? So that's like something that put out high voltage, like a power.

• 34:43Jesse Michels?

  Who said that?

• 34:44Speaker 02

  The Finnish guy.

• 34:45Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  And I have it on tape also.

• 34:48Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  I have it on tape. We have film, I think.

• 34:51Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:53Jesse Michels?

  Oh my god. And um, the meteor that happened?

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Uh, the day after, we went home.

• 35:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's crazy also.

• 35:04Jesse Michels?

  What's the story there?

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, I did not see it, but it was on the news. That happened on Earth.

• 35:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Like, one or two times per year.

• 35:16Jesse Michels?

  A meteor impacts Earth one or two times per year?

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:19Jesse Michels?

  And the day after?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  In that size.

• 35:20Jesse Michels?

  And so, so you went out here?

• 35:22Speaker 02

  I was here, exactly. On my way home, hey, home, on my way home, the day after.

• 35:27Jesse Michels?

  What year were you here?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Oh, this June.

• 35:31Jesse Michels?

  Oh, in June, okay.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:32Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  So, uh, it was on the news, that's a big meteor from over Oland and over here.

• 35:39Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Or perhaps, they're going down there.

• 35:41Jesse Michels?

  And was it like, pretty much in the center of the Baltic Sea? Whoa. Crazy, right after you went.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Nice to be here, please.

• 35:50Jesse Michels?

  And there was no sonic boom, or there was a sonic?

• 35:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was.

• 35:53Jesse Michels?

  There was a sonic boom?

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:55Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  Lots of witnesses to that.

• 35:58Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 36:04Jesse Michels?

  So some sort of energy, you know, there's um, a guy named Christopher Dunn?

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:09Jesse Michels?

  He thinks that the pyramid is an energy generator.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that or that.

• 36:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. So I wonder?

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Perhaps there's a connection, I don't know.

• 36:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Never know.

• 36:21Speaker 02

  But we will find out.

• 36:25Jesse Michels?

  So I can't wait.

• 36:28Jesse Michels?

  And so, how do you get to the bottom of something like this? Like, what do you, what steps do you even take to figure out what this is?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I'm a explorer and a treasure hunter. I'm quite good at that, when it's come to, to find things. And when it's come to this, where, find out what this is, is something, you know, that's why I have this year, year log and people from the university that helps me. And they have opened the doors for me. And, and I have one person that I must, you know, she's wonderful. And that's Beatrice Villarreal. That's the person that opened the doors for me. Before that, I mean, for 15 years, I have tried to get attention. People get interesting in this.

• 37:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  And I have been at places and I talked about that and they say, oh, Dennis, it's very interesting, it's very interesting. But, you know, I don't wanna get involved in this. You know, the stamp on, you know, UFO and things like that. My company, but it's interesting. I follow you, I follow you.

• 37:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  But, uh, nothing else. And then I met Beatrice, uh, two years ago, I think. And, uh, because I have always been since 96. And of course, when we found the Baltic Sea, interesting UAPs. Uh, and, uh, and then I've, uh, you know, met Beatrice for the first time. And, and we find each other there and we have the same interest in find out what's going on around us, because I'm already convinced, 100% convinced. So, uh, and I'm a, you know, I'm a doer. I do it. I'm working for it and I don't give up. And it's the same thing with Beatrice.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  We, uh, we're working together now. She opened the doors, she had the keys. So the scientists we are working with now are very excited and, and have been out there now with us. So we're gonna go out again, because it's unique. They have never seen anything like that either, so.

• 38:32Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 38:33Jesse Michels?

  And these are guys with experience of underwater objects and ocean objects and that sort of thing. They all say they've never seen anything like this.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 38:42Jesse Michels?

  And you made a video recently that went kind of viral on Twitter. Where you say, you know, I've seen some really amazing things with the Baltic Sea anomaly. You know, we're gonna talk about this soon. Is there anything you can speak to about about that? Like what you found in this last trip? Cause you just went out there, right? Like not too long.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  I was out there. It's so interesting that we must go out again with a scientist because I I I I trust them. I trust them because I have no experience when it comes to that. So if they're saying, Dennis, this is, this is interesting. We have not seen anything like that. We must go out again and take more measurements and you test that and that and that with different type of instruments and so on. When they are saying that, I get woo.

• 39:28Jesse Michels?

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• 40:14Jesse Michels?

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• 40:59Jesse Michels?

  Please show your support and let them know we sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mudwater, because life's too short for anything less than clean, delicious energy. Did you pick up anything in this last trip or detect anything new that was exciting?

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Not pick up anything. We have new data.

• 41:20Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  That's what I can say.

• 41:21Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:22Jesse Michels?

  And anything about the new data or it's?

• 41:25Speaker 02

  I'm a little careful to go out with the new data now. It looks like it's separated from the bottom. That's what I can say.

• 41:32Jesse Michels?

  Separated from the bottom of the, that's amazing. So it's not a geological formation?

• 41:38Speaker 02

  We, I don't know.

• 41:39Jesse Michels?

  It looks, sounds like it's not.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  I must be a little careful of that.

• 41:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:42Speaker 02

  But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.

• 41:47Jesse Michels?

  So fascinating.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:49Jesse Michels?

  And so what do you, what's the next step after this? It's more testing or?

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. It's lots of things we must do. It's, of course, to go out again and take core samples, not from the object, as I understand it, because that's quite difficult. So, but if we succeed this time to get more data that are very interesting, of course, we must go out again and take core samples. But that, that equipment is quite expensive.

• 42:17Jesse Michels?

  So core sample?

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Take from the object.

• 42:20Jesse Michels?

  From the object. So this would be like drilling into it?

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that, that's not easy.

• 42:24Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it costs lots of money. So, um, but I hope it's so interesting that we do a core drilling.

• 42:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Did, has anybody thought to stick their hand in the hole that's breathing in this?

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Believe me, yeah, many, and even I.

• 42:41Jesse Michels?

  But you haven't done it?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  No, no, no, we have not done it. I mean, it's a risk. We don't know.

• 42:45Jesse Michels?

  That's a risk for sure.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  But as Beatriz and I have talked about, we have talked about that, perhaps we're gonna use the ROV, the smaller ROV.

• 42:55Jesse Michels?

  To go in?

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have this big hole.

• 42:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Like two meters in diameter.

• 43:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  I mean, the ROVs cost lots of money, but perhaps it's worth.

• 43:04Jesse Michels?

  Does the ROV have like night vision? Can it correct for it's must be dark down?

• 43:09Speaker 02

  No, you don't see anything really. Even if you have the, you must have a sonar on it.

• 43:14Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so you put the sonar on the?

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a sonar on the ROV, so I see everything around it.

• 43:19Jesse Michels?

  And it's a side scan sonar, so you end up with a 2D?

• 43:22Speaker 02

  No, no, it's not a side scan sonar. Side scan sonar is something you have between, behind your boat or ship. When you try to find anything. Then you have a blue you sonar on the ROV.

• 43:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  Uh, there you can see a front, like a picture in the front, in the front of you.

• 43:40Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  There you have no visibility, there you can see anyway.

• 43:44Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  It's like a radar.

• 43:45Jesse Michels?

  Okay, it's like radar. Interesting, so you bas- basically get the structural formation?

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, you can see small details also.

• 43:52Jesse Michels?

  But you can't see optical, right? You don't see an image?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  No, there, there depends. If you're lucky, you can see perhaps thirty or fifty centimeters in front of you.

• 44:01Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  But then you have, yeah, it's, it's difficult.

• 44:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:05Jesse Michels?

  That is fascinating.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 44:07Jesse Michels?

  So interesting.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:08Jesse Michels?

  When you started to talk to the press about this, even back, you know, years ago?

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:16Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think like military or aerospace or, I don't know, anybody? Didn't want to check it out themselves, like authorities? They did, how do you know?

• 44:26Speaker 02

  They were lurking around in the waters when we were there.

• 44:29Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:30Jesse Michels?

  How do you know?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  I filmed it.

• 44:33Jesse Michels?

  How do you know they were authorities? Were they Swedish?

• 44:35Speaker 02

  They were NATO, it's NATO.

• 44:37Jesse Michels?

  NATO?

• 44:37Speaker 02

  It's were French and German, American, British ships around us.

• 44:41Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yep, and then also a Swedish coast corvette. Uh, go quite close to us.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  Suddenly, we saw in the distance that this must be some kind of navy ship heading directly on us. Eighty-five, ninety, all big. Turned out to be a navy ship, and actually a Swedish one. And it shouldn't be lurking around in, in, in those waters.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  They just stopped and were laying there and we were going in a search pattern and they were in our way.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  And we called up on the radio and said, "We have divers in the water, please move." And they did. But still, they were there.

• 45:33Jesse Michels?

  It's crazy.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then we have airplanes, so...

• 45:37Jesse Michels?

  How many, how many did you film?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Six, seven ships.

• 45:41Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Big ships.

• 45:42Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:44Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:45Jesse Michels?

  So you think they were there for you? It was not, it's not normal to see them all there?

• 45:49Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, it's not normal. I don't know. I mean...

• 45:52Jesse Michels?

  But how many, how many other dives have you done where you're looking for cognac and wine, where you've seen six or seven ships from various different NATO countries?

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Not many, I must say, but when we have dived on the submarine, we found 2015. Of course, we have the the Navy and the Coast Guard was there and boarding us and, you know, want to investigate what we are doing and so on and it was a...

• 46:13Jesse Michels?

  So that sounds like a similar thing because it's a national, it's a government, it's of interest to the government, in this case, the Russian government. And in this case, it's interest, of interest to NATO and many governments, probably.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, of course. And then when we were home, I got the call from the Swedish, let's say, it's like FBI in Sweden, and they want me there, directly. "Come over here, Johan, I want to talk to you." So I did. And it was about the submarine we have found and what people I'm talking to and they want to know every detail, everything about it. The Russian people I'm talking about, I talked with and so on. So it's, um... Yeah, but every time we were out, been out in the Baltic Sea, except now.

• 46:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  Except now. This time, nobody.

• 47:02Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:04Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think that is?

• 47:05Speaker 02

  The ship we're using owned by the government, the Swedish government.

• 47:10Jesse Michels?

  Ah, so they get the data no matter what?

• 47:13Speaker 02

  I don't know, probably.

• 47:15Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Maybe, maybe somebody on board is working on their behalf for that.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  I hope not.

• 47:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. The, the Swedish FBI, did they contact you about the Baltic Sea anomaly too?

• 47:29Speaker 02

  No, no. When it's come to the Baltic Sea anomaly, we had a meeting at the headquarter, military headquarters in Stockholm and I remember...

• 47:40Speaker 02

  I said to one of the people there in this group,

• 47:46Speaker 02

  I said, you should know, I mean, you have been out there and lurking around and laying there and watching us. So, uh, what do you know about the whole? Have you been there? Have you dived on it? And he just looked at me, "No, no, no, no, we have not been there." "But I haven't filmed you. I have filmed you, so I know you have been there." "Nothing. He don't say anything."

• 48:10Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  So they have been there and probably dived there also.

• 48:14Jesse Michels?

  They probably dived down there.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 48:16Jesse Michels?

  But they might also not know what's down there? They might know?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  No, no, no, of course they had dived there.

• 48:22Jesse Michels?

  But you think they know what it is? Do you think they've classified the object? Or classified it in terms of they know what they're looking at?

• 48:30Speaker 02

  I mean, that's crazy if they have not done that. I mean, but still, you know, the crazy thing is also it's not on international, it's on international water, but it's also on Finnish international economic zone. It's not on Swedish water, Finnish economic zone. So it's a little strange that the Swedish military ship are there and also other ships. But, you know, it's, I don't know. But they have been there and probably dived on it or used ROV and investigated themselves. But when we were at the headquarters and talked to them, they said that, "We know nothing about it. We have had no ships there."

• 49:15Jesse Michels?

  Did you?

• 49:15Speaker 02

  "I filmed it."

• 49:17Jesse Michels?

  You filmed it? You have evidence? When you went to the military headquarters, was it explicitly a meeting around the Baltic Sea anomaly?

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 49:25Jesse Michels?

  And they called you in?

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:27Jesse Michels?

  So, okay, they definitely had an interest at least.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Of course they were interested.

• 49:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. But then they acted like they knew nothing, they had never gone out there?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  And we show all the data, all the information from them and for them and, yeah.

• 49:48Jesse Michels?

  Is it a Russian drone?

• 49:53Speaker 02

  I see a chip on it, yeah.

• 49:58Jesse Michels?

  Well, you're a long way from home, my friend.

• 50:07Jesse Michels?

  What's the greatest ontological shock that you've experienced around the Baltic Sea anomaly?

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Well, shit, there's so many. But the...

• 50:32Speaker 02

  I mean, the first time we saw it.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  The first time we saw it.

• 50:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  That was the experience, because we have never seen anything like that before.

• 50:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  So we were very confused and, of course,

• 50:45Speaker 02

  I mean, curious what it can be.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  And then after that, we have done our things down there and P F N have been down there as a diver. And explain for me what's happened down there and what he experienced with the temperature and all the angles and walls and holes and things like that. So when you see it yourself or photos or film, then you begin to understand this must be in some way constructed.

• 51:21Jesse Michels?

  Have any skeptics come to you and said, "I think it's a rock"? Have any insight?

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 51:26Jesse Michels?

  All of them? And what do you say to them?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  Perhaps you're right. I'm not sure. The only thing I can say, I have no experience when it's come to that.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  I have never seen anything like that before, not have my colleagues either. So nobody have seen thing like 60 meter in diameter.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  But that was the first thing we did. We sent it over to France. And people that we know are working with the same things as we do.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  And when they saw the pictures, they, of course, they were curious and wonder, "Why have we found this?" As I mentioned, the Baltic Sea.

• 52:11Jesse Michels?

  Do you have a top theory as to what it is?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  It can be something that is constructed on the spot, can be.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Long time ago, perhaps before the Ice Age, I don't know.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  And that's why I have never give up when it's come to this, because I want to know. Even if it's a rock. But it's a very strange rock.

• 52:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 02

  I must say. With all the angles and holes and it's a round object, it's also separated from the bottom.

• 52:44Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, it's separated. How do you know that it's separated?

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Uh, sub-bottom profiling have we done.

• 52:49Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  So we can see the layers.

• 52:52Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, wow.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 52:54Jesse Michels?

  Amazing. That's really incredible that it's definitely separated from the... So it is an object, it's not a geological formation?

• 53:00Speaker 02

  It looks... the data say that.

• 53:02Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. What's it called, sub...

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Sub-bottom profiling.

• 53:06Jesse Michels?

  Sub-bottom profiling. And do you know how that tech works?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a radar, you go down to the ground and you see all the layers

• 53:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  in the sediment.

• 53:15Jesse Michels?

  So we know it's attached to the seabed, but it's not...

• 53:18Speaker 02

  It's not a part of a mountain or something.

• 53:20Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, it's not a geological formation, not part of the earth.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  The data say.

• 53:25Jesse Michels?

  That's pretty amazing. So it's an object.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  That's why it's important, so important that we're doing this investigation, continue with it.

• 53:33Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  With the different methods. Because it's, uh... It's of course interesting.

• 54:12Speaker 01

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• 54:43Speaker 06

  That's how it... At least, that's how it felt for me. I was having a hard time melting it. I had a hard time melting it. I was talking to my friend Denis, who's sitting there.

• 54:55Jesse Michels?

  I just spoke to your colleague that you mentioned, Beatrice Viorial, who is amazing and discovered all sorts of very cool things in her own right. She talked about the importance of having a hypothesis and having an idea of what you might be looking at so you can test against that hypothesis. Yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 06

  I mean, I've seen some astronomers suggesting that you should just look without any hypothesis and do like classify things, like you're classifying butterflies. I think you're not going to find anything.

• 55:22Jesse Michels?

  Well, obviously.

• 55:23Speaker 06

  Because you have no hypothesis. You don't target your experiment.

• 55:26Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 55:27Speaker 06

  And you're going to invest years into that and you might have a great catalog of things, but I'm not interested in the catalog.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  I don't know really what to think about that. It's something for sure. And if it is a UAP or a crashed UFO, it should be cool if you have found that, of course. But at the same time, with all the data we have now, it cannot be a volcano, even if it can be a volcano. But when I talk to scientists and I look at it now, it's not a volcano. No, no, it should not be like that. And they said mete- asteroid or meteit or something. No, it should not be that. Then you have this and this and this. Okay? Okay.

• 56:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, why can't it be an asteroid or something?

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Then you have a crater.

• 56:17Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:18Jesse Michels?

  And no crater here.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  No, no, it's standing up.

• 56:20Jesse Michels?

  It's standing up as if it's an artificial structure on the seafloor.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's laying on the bottom.

• 56:25Jesse Michels?

  And how big is it again?

• 56:26Speaker 02

  60 meter in diameter. 60 meter.

• 56:28Jesse Michels?

  60 meters.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's big.

• 56:30Jesse Michels?

  It's very big.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:32Jesse Michels?

  That's so interesting.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  So...

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Let's find out this stuff.

• 56:37Jesse Michels?

  So your two top hypotheses are that it's either a UFO, maybe something, we're not alone, maybe something from space.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:44Jesse Michels?

  Or you think maybe it's an artificial structure that was built before the Younger Dryas period. Maybe when, you know, there was probably flooding, there was flooding, you know, meltwater pulse 1B in 9600 B.C.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:58Jesse Michels?

  Before that, you know, you had, water levels were different.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:02Jesse Michels?

  And maybe this was on land and it was built at that time.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Can be like that, yeah.

• 57:06Jesse Michels?

  So one-

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Something is built there.

• 57:07Jesse Michels?

  Either one is very interesting. It's fascinating.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 57:11Jesse Michels?

  And you're reasonably confident that there, it's detached, that the object is not part of-

• 57:21Speaker 02

  A big stone or something, yeah. Now, as we can see it now, the data we have from the last mission or where we're at, uh, it's looks like it's separated from the bottom on the data. But, you know, we're gonna go out again and do it one more time.

• 57:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  That's how we must do it.

• 57:38Jesse Michels?

  Did the diver that you mentioned before, who, I think it was Stefan-

• 57:43Speaker 02

  Stefan Holgerborn, yeah.

• 57:44Jesse Michels?

  He touched it.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:46Jesse Michels?

  Did he say it felt like anything?

• 57:49Speaker 02

  No, not really. He, he was surprised it was dark under it.

• 57:53Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  It was gray like, um, um, gray when it, the, the sand. Um, and then it took that away and it was dark, almost black, gray black.

• 58:06Jesse Michels?

  Did he say it looks natural or artificial?

• 58:10Speaker 02

  No, nothing about that.

• 58:11Jesse Michels?

  He didn't say-

• 58:12Speaker 02

  He didn't mention anything about it.

• 58:13Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:14Jesse Michels?

  Did he mention feeling anything, being around it, like, oh my god, this is-

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He have, um, he have never, ever, and this is a, he have been diving for a long, long time. He is well known in Sweden when it's come to diving.

• 58:30Jesse Michels?

  How many years has he been diving?

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Since he was a young guy.

• 58:33Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  It's a, but anyway, he is a-

• 58:36Jesse Michels?

  How old is he now?

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Same age, sixty.

• 58:39Jesse Michels?

  Okay, wow.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  Six meters. So, um, and then, um-

• 58:44Jesse Michels?

  So forty years probably of-

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Probably more, but-

• 58:48Jesse Michels?

  More, yeah.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Still, you know, he, he, uh, he said to me that, um, when he was up, because he was, um, I saw in his, in his face, he was very-

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Confused, or you know, see it in his face. And I was, of course, curious. What have you seen? And then he said to me, Dennis, I, you know, I have dived a lot and I have never, ever seen anything like this.

• 59:18Speaker 04

  Wow. That was probably the most important dive I've ever done in my life. And I've done maybe 6,000 dives in my life.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  I would die for an expert to tell me what I've seen.

• 59:33Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then he explained for me about the hole. He explained about the temperature. And he was brushing off the sand, the sediment. It was dark under it. And he tried to take samples from it. It was too hard, so he takes samples, that loose samples on it instead. Like loose stones.

• 59:52Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh. And where did those stones, have you tested those?

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, we tested in Israel.

• 59:57Jesse Michels?

  And are those stones, did they come back normal or?

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  Uh, they found minerals, of course. And nothing that really sticks out. And basalt, volcanic stones they found. But at the same time, when I've talked to the people, the scientists, they say, you will never find any, any basalt in the Baltic Sea because you don't have any volcano. But then they said that probably, if you have found it, it's coming at the ice, you know, the end of the ice age.

• 1:00:35Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  It's a melting period. It's coming from the Atlant, Atlant, and being the Baltic. But I, I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:00:46Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47Jesse Michels?

  So it's almost like when you look at an ice core sample and you can kind of see what carbon levels were in the sediment layer of the ice or something. This might be a record that it was an ancient structure that was built from a long time ago. The fact that there's even basalt there.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Jesse Michels?

  Is that kind of what you're?

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  That's a very interesting test we're gonna do. We're gonna do a core drilling, not at the object, but around the object now. And even it's this track, you'll see if we see any layers.

• 1:01:14Jesse Michels?

  Ah, smart.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  That's important to see how, I mean, how long I've been there.

• 1:01:19Jesse Michels?

  Have you brought a Geiger counter down or measured radioactive?

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  This time, we're gonna do.

• 1:01:24Jesse Michels?

  You will?

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Jesse Michels?

  It's amazing.

• 1:01:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:26Jesse Michels?

  This is so fascinating. What do you, do you want this to be a contribution to humanity? Or what, what do you want for, for this?

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  The truth.

• 1:01:36Jesse Michels?

  The truth, yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  That's the only thing. And even if it's a rock or big rock, I want it to come out because I wanna do like check. I have done this now, I can go further with my other projects.

• 1:01:49Jesse Michels?

  Are there any other rocks with corridors and right angle?

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Not only that, as I mentioned, with corridors and holes and things. I forgot one thing, very important. I have a like a triangle like this with a hole in it.

• 1:02:08Jesse Michels?

  A triangle?

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  With a hole.

• 1:02:09Jesse Michels?

  With the hole, how big is the triangle?

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Like fifteen centimeters, twenty centimeters, like that.

• 1:02:16Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:02:18Jesse Michels?

  With a hole in it?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, the hole.

• 1:02:19Jesse Michels?

  Like a perfect round circle?

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Jesse Michels?

  Almost as if it was like laser cut or something?

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  Perfect on the object.

• 1:02:28Jesse Michels?

  Any writing? I assume not, no inscription?

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  You know, it's, as I mentioned, we have, we were lucky when we found this on a, on a film.

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  But, you know, it's a big object and visibility down there, as I said, it's very, you know, it's pitch black.

• 1:02:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  And it's difficult to see things.

• 1:02:46Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  Uh, but we saw that and probably we will find more next time we're coming out.

• 1:02:52Jesse Michels?

  That's so fascinating. Before the Baltic Sea anomaly, were you interested in UFOs at all? Did you have any interest in unidentified flying objects, space, aliens, anything like that?

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Okay, let's go back in time then. I have talked about this before.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  And I can do it again, because that was, that was something that changed my life totally. Uh, back in nineteen ninety-six, I live outside of Stockholm, not far from here. Um. Very close to a military installation. And I was an entrepreneur, explorer entrepreneur, I had my businesses and, and doing lots of things. I was a, uh, daddy to two boys. Hmm. Uh, and I have a wife and, and a good life, perfect life. Yeah. And the only thing when it's come to UAPs and UFO, I saw Star Wars, E T's and, um. Aliens. Yeah, that was the only thing I, no, no interest in when it's come to, I did not think about it. Yeah. You know, I was busy in my world. Uh huh.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  So, anyway, that thing that changed my mind totally was ninety-six. Uh, in the summer, in the early summer. Uh, I lay in my bed in the apartment, uh, not far, far from this military installation. I have a big window in front of me.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  I wake up, um, three thirty something in the morning, usually I sleep a long time, you know, the. I use the time for sleeping at that time, because I'm working a lot. Hmm. But this morning, I wake up of some reason. I'm still today, don't understand really, I have thought about it, of course, but, uh. I wake up, uh, lay in my bed for ten minutes and I decide then to go up and drink water in the kitchen. So I'm sitting in the bed, I have a big window in front of me. And outside the window, I have this military installation, Fua, it's called. Uh, in Swedish town. So I'm sitting there in my bed and, and look out the window and, um, see something that.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Should not be there. And it's take me a couple of seconds to really understand that I have something in front of me that should not be there. Should not be there.

• 1:05:10Jesse Michels?

  What is it?

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, good question. And then I'm getting frustrated. You know, when you see something that not fit, you know, it should not be there. That uh I get to use, I begin to use my F words and try to get my wife's attention because she's sleeping behind me. I want her to see that also.

• 1:05:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Because it's something.

• 1:05:32Jesse Michels?

  So you're making a little scene.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, of course. And then uh stand up and turn around and look at her to what, you know? And she look at me scared because I mean, that's not Dennis. I'm a quite cool guy.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  And this in the in the early morning. So then I turn around and look again and went out to the window. And it's still there. It's still there.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  And then I begin to understand this is something very, very odd and strange I have in front of me. And then the thing happens that when you see it like this, it's looks like a hot dog. And it's brown, it's yellow and the sunlight is uh it's reflecting on it. And then it's going like this. It's dark under it. And then I see it's round. Before I don't see it round. Then I see it round. And then after one second, one and a half second, it's.

• 1:06:35Jesse Michels?

  So what shape is it?

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  It's round, it's round. But if you see it like this, you don't see it as round. But when I do like this, it's round.

• 1:06:44Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Jesse Michels?

  So you just saw it uh it looked like a flat plane because you were looking at it from the side.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Like a hot dog or a cigar or something.

• 1:06:53Jesse Michels?

  Some sort of long line, yeah, which is a common people's tic tac cigars. And then it turned and you saw that it was round.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Jesse Michels?

  And then it popped off. And how long did you see it for?

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  Fourteen fifteen seconds.

• 1:07:05Jesse Michels?

  How far away from you standing in front of the window?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  One and a half kilometers, one to one and a half kilometers.

• 1:07:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow, so it must have been a pretty big object.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  It was a big, it was not, as I has mentioned to many people, it's not what, it was not the bird shit on the window.

• 1:07:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  And not the bird or it was something very, very strange.

• 1:07:25Jesse Michels?

  It's amazing that you woke up at that time.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Jesse Michels?

  Was it around the military installation?

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  Was uh on the over the military installation.

• 1:07:34Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 1:07:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:35Jesse Michels?

  And does the military installation has any sort of nuclear stuff? I guess there's no nuclear in Sweden or there's there's.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:44Jesse Michels?

  There's nuclear energy, there's plonk craft and stuff.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  No, no, no, plutonium and lots of other things, the nuclear things they work with there. Because I did, I did my investigation because I was, you know. Wow, I have seen something. Now I must figure out what it is. I tried, must try to find out if I can find any information regarding this, what I have seen, if anybody else have seen it. So local papers, at that time ninety six, we had Alta Vista.

• 1:08:11Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  You know, and modem, you put your phone and.

• 1:08:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Tip, tip, tip, tip, and then you call, no broadband at that.

• 1:08:17Jesse Michels?

  Internet service provider modem, yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  So was a uh local paper, military sites, and also my friend in the military I talked to, nobody, nobody have seen it. Or heard anything about it. So uh then uh I contacted a UFO Sweden, UFO Sweden.

• 1:08:38Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Uh you haven't talked to one of these thing guys, I think.

• 1:08:43Jesse Michels?

  Class one, yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:45Jesse Michels?

  So this is like the official.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Jesse Michels?

  Investigate civilian investigation.

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, in Sweden, yeah.

• 1:08:49Jesse Michels?

  UFO.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  So I, I mailed them, but I did not get any receipt.

• 1:08:53Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Anything back. So that was a shock for me and that was something that changed my belief totally.

• 1:09:03Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  Totally. Before that, nothing at all. So I remember when I saw this thing, I, I.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  I got my, I got her attention, but she did not come up and saw it. Anyway, it's flowing over my uh house and then I run over the bed over her.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  To come to the other side. And I'm standing there like, what, where is it? Where is it? And I see, don't see anything. And then she's coming and then it's Dennis, what's wrong? What's wrong? I don't know, I have seen something. And then after that, my two kids are coming. Papa, Papa, what's wrong? And I'm, this morning, we're sitting in breakfast and, and I tried to, in my best way to explain for them what I have seen. And later that day, we go down to this area. It's a protected area, it's a military installation, so we cannot go in. But anyway, I go there because I, I, I have reference. I saw that, there was one part of it and that was, how big is it? And then I began to, okay, must be like six, seven hundred meters in diameter.

• 1:10:10Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  So we're talking about a big thing.

• 1:10:13Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:10:15Speaker 02

  So, um, yeah, that's what happened to me in ninety six.

• 1:10:20Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. And you looked into it and you realized that the military installation, that site, does like plutonium enrichment?

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:28Jesse Michels?

  And that seems to be a huge pattern, as I'm sure you're aware of.

• 1:10:32Speaker 02

  After a while, I did, I began to understand that's the reason perhaps they are there.

• 1:10:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Other plutonium enrichment sites in the US, Savannah River Site, South Carolina, or Hanford, Washington. There are a lot of UFO sightings over both. In fact, one of the earliest sightings was over Hanford Plutonium Site in nineteen forty five. This pilot named Bud Clem. So it's, it's a very common thing.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:10:56Jesse Michels?

  Uh, wow, that's amazing.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was something that, uh, begin, uh, I mean, there, there were, there was, that was the time that I began to think about, okay, we are not alone, something are here.

• 1:11:10Jesse Michels?

  So you started to get interested in the?

• 1:11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, very.

• 1:11:14Jesse Michels?

  Did you start to read about the topic?

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Of course, of course. I tried to find out if somebody else had found, seen anything like that.

• 1:11:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Look at pictures and, and, um, because we did not have YouTube and things at that time, ninety six. But then I saw pictures and now, now, nothing like that, nothing like that, nothing like that. I, I, I really tried my best to find out if somebody have taken a picture of it or something.

• 1:11:40Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

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• 1:12:24Jesse Michels?

  I saw two UFOs in 2020 and then I just became obsessed. And I had like a kind of a prestigious job in finance or whatever. And I was like, all I can spend time on is this. And so I, yeah.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  That changed your life totally, don't it?

• 1:12:40Jesse Michels?

  Definitely changed my life.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have experienced, as you know, I have experienced lots of other people I've talked to that have experienced, that have changed their life totally. And not only their life, only their family's life. Because you'll be another person.

• 1:13:00Jesse Michels?

  Yes, yeah. It opens you up spiritually too. And I think, I think I was nihilistic before and I didn't believe in higher things, you know?

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  Me too. I was like totally focused on my, you know, myself and my family and my career, my business and everything what I'm doing. And then that happened, that really changed me.

• 1:13:25Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's beautiful.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  The meaning of life. We need to think about, who are we? Who are them? Why are they here? And so on, and so on, you know?

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  That's why it's so important for me and I know for you and lots of other people too.

• 1:13:45Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:13:45Speaker 02

  You cannot just leave your background or just walk away from it.

• 1:13:49Jesse Michels?

  No, you can't walk away, yeah.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  You cannot do that because you have it your whole life in you.

• 1:13:54Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:14:05Jesse Michels?

  Maybe the way the beings are speaking to us is through the discoveries, you know, it's like their language.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Perhaps they don't want to just give it us, they want us to find it.

• 1:14:18Jesse Michels?

  I think that's right. It's every, every story is like that, you know, King Arthur, you know, any, anything, it's always, you have to search.

• 1:14:35Jesse Michels?

  What do you say to the people who say, oh, well, Dennis was already interested in UFOs? And, you know, he's just biased because he already had this in his mind when he saw this object?

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, as I mentioned, 96, that changed my life and I am explorer. I have been an explorer since I was a kid, really. I'm a curious guy. I've always been interested in finding things that nobody else has found. And of course, make money on it. So I can pay my bills and do new, you know, expeditions and things like that. So, and then we found this thing and they can't believe what they, I mean, it's my,

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  it's my, it's my life. I have always been like that. And, and yes, sorry if they feel like that, but this is my reality. This is something I have gone through. And I've found something for sure that is very interesting and I'm open with it. Everything I do, I'm open with it. It's the same thing with shipwrecks, I'm doing that because I know lots of people, as I was. And when I was a kid, I was curious. I look at TV and things and books and, and I know lots of people around the world are very curious about treasures. You know, I'm a treasure hunter. And then I found this thing and the same thing there, I'm open with it.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  And then I have seen something, 96, that convinced me. So.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  I'm open, I've always been like that.

• 1:16:08Jesse Michels?

  Say you take a core sample, you bring a Geiger counter.

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:12Jesse Michels?

  You observe much more the next time, your next visit. And you actually get conclusive proof that this is an anomalous object not from Earth.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:25Jesse Michels?

  What next?

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  Talk about it, show the whole world about the truth about it. That's how I work. And that's how we together, Beatrice and I, work. We wanna be open with everything. We, even if it's a stone or a comet, whatever it is, I must be open with it.

• 1:16:46Jesse Michels?

  Are you familiar with the history in Scandinavia of specifically waterborne UFOs? Or UFOs that hit the water, specifically the Ghost Rocket anomalies in the 40s, for example, never landed on land or crashed on land. They always hit the water and lakes and stuff.

• 1:17:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, since I was out with the information 96, then I found it 2011. But 96, no, I was not out with the information. But since 2011, I have received, I mean, so much mails from people around the world and even here in Sweden. They're talking about, they have seen cigars, they have, you know, crashed in the water, in forests and things like that. And they wanna talk to me. And, you know, lots of people have contacted me. And I wish I can clone myself and, you know, do, it's so many people.

• 1:17:44Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:17:45Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:17:46Jesse Michels?

  You know who Matthew Brown is?

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:48Jesse Michels?

  He's this recent whistleblower, you know, UAP whistleblower, recent UFO whistleblower in the US. And he encountered this Immaculate Constellation document within the government. And it talks about transmedium objects, UFOs going in and out of the water.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:06Jesse Michels?

  But he also, he talks about in his interview with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, the idea that some of these UFOs are made to purpose. So they're built in order to serve specific functionalities.

• 1:18:19Speaker 04

  Sometimes these might be, you know, made to purpose. So, you know, if they're only making it for a specific.

• 1:18:28Jesse Michels?

  Use case scenario, they'll design it to excel on that mission. And this is getting into very speculative territory, but there's a UFO whistleblower on 4chan. You know, it's one of these kind of dark internet forums or whatever. And he said he was sick and, you know, he didn't have much time left and it was time for him to reveal the truth. And he says that, uh, basically these, these UFOs are built to spec. They're made for specific purposes and they're on the ocean floor. And so I wonder if this was an object with all of these, you know, kind of intricate corridors and holes and 90 degree corners that was maybe built to spec for some specific purpose.

• 1:19:13Jesse Michels?

  And then maybe it served its purpose and it was disposed of or, you know, who knows?

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  Who knows? I, I don't know, but that was, hopefully we will find out when it's come to this. And, and since 2011, I received lots of, uh, emails and even letters on paper that, uh, the story about things that have crashed down to the, in the water. And even, uh, uh, former officers in the Navy that have contacted me that are very scared to go out with it, but they wanna tell me the story about they have seen things like that.

• 1:19:50Jesse Michels?

  Amazing.

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  In the water. Yeah.

• 1:19:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, there's even, um, in the US, there's a guy named John Pena Craven. He wrote a book called The Silent War. And they talk about all sorts of covert operations in the US and finding things on the seafloor. And, uh, there are rumors that the, the Glowmore Explorer for Hughes Corporation was maybe, you know, subsea to, to find sort of objects like this. So I think there's a long history of crash retrievals, you know, in the ocean.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Jesse Michels?

  And, uh, it's fascinating.

• 1:20:39Speaker 04

  And then I don't know if you wanted to like touch on the Baikal, Baikal Lake. Do you know the story of like Soviet divers going down to like look for something and they get petrified? Like they need these tall, tall humans or maybe it's.

• 1:20:51Jesse Michels?

  Ah, interesting.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  When was that?

• 1:20:53Speaker 04

  In eighty-two.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Eighty-two?

• 1:20:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Because it's a, it's a big story in UFO lore.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:20:58Speaker 04

  Of just like these soldiers like get petrified.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  Where was that? In the lake or?

• 1:21:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, Lake Baikal.

• 1:21:04Jesse Michels?

  There's also, there's another story somewhere in Hawaii. This guy David Noble White Crow, because he's a, he's an Indian guy. He was a UFO witness, but then he was stationed somewhere with this guy who apparently dove on an object in Hawaii. And the idea was maybe it was related to the Starfish Prime test series. So the Marshall Islands, you know, atomic tests or whatever where UFO material was supposedly came out of the sky. You know, I interviewed a guy Harold Malmgren, who basically on his deathbed said that he held in his hands UFO material from, that came out of the plume of a blast from Operation Blue Gill Triple Prime.

• 1:21:48Jesse Michels?

  And it was given to him by Jeff Bezos's maternal grandfather Lawrence Preston Geis at Sandia National Labs in Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico. Amazing. And so, anyway, so this guy David Noble White Crow stationed with this other guy. He said that he dove down and saw some sort of object, but that it was almost alive. And it was, I think Dolan might talk about this as well, Richard Dolan. So the object itself was like breathing and it was organic. And he didn't know why he was this kind of, you know, in intelligence circles often they say, "Go find a thing and you don't know what you're looking for." And so he apparently looked at the object when he was down there. And it really shocked him.

• 1:22:33Jesse Michels?

  He became, it was ontologically completely shocking. He was like, "What am I seeing?" And it was because it looked organic and it was like breathing. So, and then I think about the hole with the sand.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you're saying something very interesting because when we did the samples there from. Uh we take from, not from the object, but from that laying on the object. Uh it was organic burned material.

• 1:23:00Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Jesse Michels?

  Organic.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:03Jesse Michels?

  Burned.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:04Jesse Michels?

  Whoa. So like.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  But, you know, I'm not a specialist in that area, but it was, it was that.

• 1:23:12Jesse Michels?

  So it was like charred, like?

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  No, something at high temperature, very high temperature, and it's like basalt.

• 1:23:19Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  You know, and then when it's um uh cooling down, the layers on it, when you're scraping it.

• 1:23:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 02

  Take the test, what's biologic?

• 1:23:28Jesse Michels?

  How'd you know?

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  The science, I mean.

• 1:23:31Jesse Michels?

  It was biological?

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, they tested.

• 1:23:33Jesse Michels?

  To contain DNA and stuff?

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  No, that I don't know.

• 1:23:35Jesse Michels?

  Okay, but it was.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  Biologic.

• 1:23:37Jesse Michels?

  When you say biological plant or animal?

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  Can be, I don't know.

• 1:23:40Jesse Michels?

  Some sort of tissue or something?

• 1:23:42Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:23:43Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 1:23:44Speaker 02

  Nothing, it's dead sea.

• 1:23:46Jesse Michels?

  Dead sea, so no, but this had biological material?

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:23:50Jesse Michels?

  So normally you would never find biological material in this area?

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. The fishes.

• 1:23:56Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:23:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, not out there in the middle of the Baltic Sea.

• 1:24:00Jesse Michels?

  But nothing we can say that's more descriptive than biological material or?

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:24:06Jesse Michels?

  Not a specific animal or specific, okay.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:24:08Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  So, but hopefully this time when we go out, we're gonna take more samples, core drilling, as I mentioned for you. But we're gonna take, uh hopefully we can take something from the, the object. But if not, we take new samples from different spots around it and even on it. And do our investigation and, you know, look at it.

• 1:24:32Jesse Michels?

  Amazing. Well, godspeed, man. I'm very excited to see what you find. I think it's very cool what you're doing and uh. Do you think, I mean, do you believe that you'll succeed in figuring out what this object is?

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:46Jesse Michels?

  You do?

• 1:24:46Speaker 02

  One hundred percent. Uh even if it's a stone or a volcano or whatever it is, we will find out. I don't give up. We must have answer now to what it is. But, but there have been a tough time, fifteen years and gray hairs and uh.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Struggling with this to convince people to get into this and now we have the right people involved in this project and I'm so glad for that and uh but it had been a tough time with threats and people that want to hurt me or my family and so it's had been tough also.

• 1:25:24Jesse Michels?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  In many ways.

• 1:25:25Jesse Michels?

  Any, any specific threats that you can talk about?

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  Uh, not really, but you know, you get maids and and like threatening me and my kids and and lots of things like that.

• 1:25:38Jesse Michels?

  Horrible.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  To uh make me to stop or well, yeah.

• 1:25:44Jesse Michels?

  They literally say, stop looking for the Baltic Sea anomaly.

• 1:25:47Speaker 02

  No, we know what your kids are, we know what kindergarten they are at. Now we're talking about my youngest kids, now they are teenagers and but at that time they work in the kinder- were in the kindergarten and school and and they said that we know about your son there and daughter there and that when I was what the, you know.

• 1:26:06Jesse Michels?

  Jesus.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  And be careful about that, blah, blah, blah, blah. I still have the maids left, you know.

• 1:26:12Jesse Michels?

  You do?

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and lots of it. And then people that think I'm opening the door to hell.

• 1:26:21Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:22Jesse Michels?

  Like you're opening a gateway to hell?

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  Gateway to hell, so I'm the, gonna blame me on, you know. So it was tough. And then to, to, if you have a wife, you know, family and I must be open with everything if this threat, threatening me and my family.

• 1:26:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  I must be open.

• 1:26:39Jesse Michels?

  Well, being, being public is the best.

• 1:26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was very tough for them to accept that and, and uh and they did not really accept it. And it was tough for me, I mean, then it's what have we done? Don't put this, put us in the, in this situation, you know, and, and. Was tough, but they have, you know, supported me and this because it's important. They know that's important for me.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  And now we are here, two thousand twenty five, and we are out again. And hopefully, we have answered this year what we have found. And but even if it's a stone or whatever it is, I will continue to work in in this area to find out, are we alone or and we are not alone. But who are they?

• 1:27:31Jesse Michels?

  Who are?

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Where are they coming from?

• 1:27:33Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  What's the purpose and so on?

• 1:27:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  So that that is something very important for me.

• 1:27:38Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think if the people mailing you didn't think it was real, they wouldn't be so vociferous and aggressive.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46Jesse Michels?

  In everything they're saying. It's implying an insecurity that they actually think the thing is real. If they think they thought that you were obsessed with a volcanic rock.

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Jesse Michels?

  For fifteen years, they wouldn't be threatening anything.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  No, no, no, we all on the the crew, everybody on the ship and also, as I mentioned, the Finnish guys and and we have been out there and it's a reason we are going out.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Many times I've been out there, not for a stone. I mean, we have seen something that have, you know, make us confused.

• 1:28:22Jesse Michels?

  Do you plan to document what you find throughout so that you can? I think it's important maybe for just as a defense for yourself to show the process as you're finding things, so nobody can kind of deny that you, because you have, you know, evidence that you're doing it as you're doing it.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, we, of course, we have a plan for that and and we have filmed when we were out last time, we did a little filming, of course. We don't have any film crew with us or any production company, because I have been little, you know, we do it ourself now in the beginning, but.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  We have changed our mind a little now. We must be think about perhaps to connect a team with it or get in contact with a team that can film us and document everything because I think is lots of things are gonna happen when we are out now, this time and hopefully later. That's what I hope for and it's good to have on film also.

• 1:29:26Jesse Michels?

  Well, we're available.

• 1:29:46Speaker 05

  You alright? You see anything? Not yet, no. I'm doing with the drone. Yeah. We were flying on the, hovering on the surface. Yeah. Saw some weird lines. Yeah. Some tracks. Yeah. And something I would say like rust. It had a brownish color. Like rust, like metal. It looked really like it. It was like white. It was my first situation. So like it was a little bit like old metal. Rusty, but it was still good. You know, it's still good. But just running theory. Why would there be metal? No question.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  Ah, now you see. Polytal there.

• 1:30:39Speaker 05

  Ah, yeah, it's like.

• 1:30:41Speaker 02

  Wow! It's like a wall.

• 1:30:44Speaker 05

  Yeah. That's the picture you take.

• 1:30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:48Speaker 05

  You took when you dived for the first time with your RV. So this is higher resolution. Yeah, because the range is smaller, so you've got. And it shows it's even straighter than before. Yeah. How long is that super straight part?

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 1:31:04Speaker 05

  I would say that. Ah, it must be at least thirty meters.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Thirty meters.

• 1:31:09Speaker 05

  At least.

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  Sixty meters, the whole thing.

• 1:31:12Speaker 05

  So what are the chances of that? It's crazy.

• 1:31:26Speaker 04

  Or even that one day we can have one of these objects in a museum so a kid can like

• 1:31:32Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 1:31:33Speaker 04

  Can can look at it and be inspired and understand and understand the the potential of possibility that exists in the universe. For me, that was the pyramid when I was a kid.

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:41Speaker 04

  I grew up half an hour away from it. I know the impact of having seen something that almost doesn't feel like it belongs to this reality. And like ever since, I think I said that on camera during the Grush.

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Grush documentary, just like that's why I'm in it for it.

• 1:31:55Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 1:31:56Speaker 04

  Because I I hope that our work and every interview that we do can can push people to.

• 1:32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. That that's why it's so important for us in this, you know, what we are doing, it's to that we work together.

• 1:32:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  That we really instead of on his down there, you know what I mean? Lots of people in different groups and then, you know, I don't want to speak to them.

• 1:32:19Speaker 04

  I think the phenomenon doesn't open itself up to you unless you have that orientation of like loving and humanity.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  Well, that that's.

• 1:32:28Speaker 04

  It'll reject you.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Something perhaps I forgot to mention or was about.

• 1:32:36Speaker 02

  Uh, ninety six, you know, go back to ninety six, I was a parent, I had two young guys, I was occupied with all my businesses and exploring and so on.

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Something I thought about later, perhaps a couple of weeks, a month after that incident was a feeling I had, a feeling that usually I don't wake up so early. At that time, I was a young daddy, you know, and blah, blah, blah. And I use my time to sleep when I have the chance to sleep, I sleep. Don't go up four o'clock, three thirty in the night, no way. I did not, as now, I'm an old guy, I don't go up and pee, you know. That's what I'm doing, not that at that time. But I wake up of some reason, of some reason, I don't understand today.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  And perhaps, perhaps there was a that feeling I. I had in some way and I begin to thought, think about it later after a couple of weeks that perhaps it was some plan for me to

• 1:33:49Jesse Michels?

  I think so.

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  to wake up and see it because I had the feeling after it, not in the situation. Then I was angry and pissed off because I did not understand what I'm seeing. But after a week or two weeks, I begin to how come? And I talked to my wife at that time, you know, how come? And she, no, Daniel, I don't know. You used to, you used to sleep a long time, but this time I wake up and was something. I cannot put my finger on it, but something.

• 1:34:21Jesse Michels?

  Do you know what a time loop is? Or a closed time like curve in physics?

• 1:34:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:34:26Jesse Michels?

  It's two connected points in time that couldn't exist without one another. They're entangled. And so a classic story is Carl Jung, you know, the Swiss psychologist. He was a contemporary of Freud. He had a patient and this patient was very kind of materialist, reductionist, just believed in the physical world, was very rational.

• 1:34:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Jesse Michels?

  And she had a dream that she was gifted this golden scarab beetle. And it was this very important thing in her dream. She comes in, she talks to Carl Jung, who's her, you know, psychologist. And she says that, I don't know, I was given this scarab beetle. It's very strange. I don't know. But she's very skeptical. And as she's telling the story, a scarab beetle comes down the windowsill and lands right in the office. And so he ends up giving it to her. And then she gets, gets so emotional and starts crying and it opens her up to a realm of all sorts of possibilities as to how time and space work and that there's far more beyond, you know, just our material existence and plane that we see.

• 1:35:32Jesse Michels?

  But the point is, if she hadn't have noticed the dream and she wasn't looking out for the scarab beetle. Then the dream itself wouldn't have been this self fulfilling prophecy.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:43Jesse Michels?

  And he wouldn't have gifted it to her and the whole thing wouldn't have happened. And so there are two points connected in space and time. And so I think that could be what's happening with you right now where. And it's a lot of people, you know, I think the almost dirty little secret of UFO research is people always try to say, oh, I'm this very impartial observer and I haven't been affected by this on a core personal level. And then you get a little deeper, you have drinks with the person and they're like, okay, I saw something five years ago and I know it's real, so now I'm looking for it. And I have a similar, I've seen stuff and it was right at the start of doing this show and it really has impacted my own desire to, to, to, to, you know,

• 1:36:26Jesse Michels?

  substantiate what I saw more. And so I, I do believe what you just said.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, yeah, to, to, um. Yeah, I saw what I saw and then I decided to be quiet about it. I, I, as I mentioned, and I, I tried to see if I can find any information in local papers, in the military sites and so on. Uh, and I did not find anything and I decided to be totally quiet about it. The only people that have known about it was my family, my closest friends.

• 1:36:59Speaker 02

  But then on a, on a cruising with a ship. Uh, because they were curious about the Baltic Sea anomaly. One young guy coming to me, Dennis, have, have you seen anything? I mean, the UFO or something? And I just, I know, I should not talk about that. And then, okay, let's do it.

• 1:37:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  I say it. That was the first time I mentioned it for public.

• 1:37:25Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing. And then who knows if you would have been as persistent to spend almost 15 years looking for this object if you hadn't had prior evidence in your own life that there's something else out there. Maybe you would have overlooked it. Maybe you would have said, ah, it's probably a prosaic thing. Why would I spend so much time on this thing? So it's interesting, even a scientist as reputable as Gary Nolan at Stanford. It's similar where like he kind of started to uncover experiences he had had in his childhood.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:57Jesse Michels?

  When he got into the subject professionally later in life. So. I think it's impossible to completely separate the observer and the observed. And I think it's always honorable when anybody admits what's driving them is often a personal experience. There's no way to decouple those two things.

• 1:38:16Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting, interesting.

• 1:38:19Jesse Michels?

  Very interesting. Well, the journey continues.

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  Let's find out what it is.

• 1:38:22Jesse Michels?

  Let's do it.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  Okay, great. Thank you.

• 1:38:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're a curious guy, and that's good. I'm a curious guy, and that's so important for me to continue. Still, I'm alive, I'm healthy, and I'm okay. But you never know, someday you just get sick and you don't have the energy to continue. But still, I'm...

• 1:38:46Jesse Michels?

  You're great now, man.

• 1:38:47Speaker 04

  I want to do it.

• 1:38:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:48Speaker 04

  Continue to find the answer without the military or the governments.

• 1:38:53Jesse Michels?

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:38:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's important for me.

• 1:38:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, no, for humanity.

• 1:38:58Speaker 04

  For the future, for my kids' grand kids and so on.

• 1:39:04Jesse Michels?

  I think you will. I think you have the right energy towards it, so...

• 1:39:08Speaker 04

  I'll do my best.

• 1:39:09Jesse Michels?

  I want to go dive down there.

• 1:39:23Jesse Michels?

  Alchemists, did you enjoy that? Well, here's the thing: that episode was just the tip of the iceberg. If you want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just launched on Substack. That's where we deep dive into all sorts of crazy topics that we don't have time to fit into every video, with weekly articles exploring all of the strange, forgotten, and conspiratorial corners of space, history, and high weirdness. So join up today at our free or paid tiers on Substack. I am including the full link in the description of this video.

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