Private Chef Life (Part 1): How Adrienne Went from Le Bernardin to Kitchen Burnout to Racing Helicopters in the South of France

In part one of our three-part series on private chef work, Adrienne comes clean to Joe about what she really does for a living and pulls back the curtain on what it’s like to work as a private chef. Plus, we discuss: Global Condiment Cup: Mayo takes the crown Whisk Takers: Adrienne’s story of going from fine dining to private work The longest Adrienne went without repeating a dish Some little-known details about private chef work The oldest spice in our pantry Walk In Confession: Adrienne’s salty surprise Follow the show: @chefscutpod Follow Adrienne: @chefadriennecheatham Follow Joe: @insta.flamm

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Welcome back to the chef's cut. I am Adrian Cheatham.

• 0:04Joe Flamm?

  And I am Joe Flamm. So great to be back, Edge.

• 0:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  The results of the Global Condiment Cup final round. Joe, it's in.

• 0:14Joe Flamm?

  But we have a champ. We have named a champion of our first ever Global Condiment Cup. So just a reminder, the last four of the final round, we had mayo, the mighty barbecue sauce, soy sauce, and your favorite chili crisp.

• 0:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  Chili crisp.

• 0:31Joe Flamm?

  This isn't really your favorite because you're really a Tabasco girl, but you know, you just, I guess you don't vote how you buy. So you ready for it, Edge?

• 0:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Who won? I gotta know.

• 0:39Joe Flamm?

  You, do you have a guess before I rip it?

• 0:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think chili crisp. Who doesn't like chili crisp?

• 0:44Joe Flamm?

  You think chili crisp, you know, and nothing brings me more joy than you being wrong.

• 0:50Joe Flamm?

  The winner is mayo.

• 0:52Adrienne Cheatham?

  No, no, not mayonnaise.

• 0:55Joe Flamm?

  The creamy condiment is king. The creamy condiment is king. You know, it's just, it's one of those things like even I feel like if chefs didn't say it was their favorite condiment, name a condiment they use more in professional kitchens.

• 1:07Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08Joe Flamm?

  It's so versatile. It's so good. You use so much of it. I think like by volume, it has to be the winner of like all restaurants ever.

• 1:20Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, that's true. I mean, I'm, I'm shocked, but I'm also not shocked. So yeah, I guess so. I mean, the people have spoken. It's, you know, the, the votes are in, the people spoke and mayonnaise took the crown. Oh my gosh.

• 1:34Joe Flamm?

  Well, now that we've gotten through our coronation, Edge, what are we getting into today?

• 1:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Joe, we have a huge surprise today. This is something that's never been done on our show before. This is going to be the first of a three-part series that we're doing. And this series is going to be about private chef work.

• 1:52Joe Flamm?

  Yes.

• 1:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. So this, you know, right. It's like, it's such a part of our industry and it's really blown up since COVID, like really coming out of the shadows all over social media. The Wall Street Journal had an article about private chefs and how these people have amassed these huge followings. And it's no longer a career that people are doing when they want to retire from restaurants. Like people are seeking out this type of work.

• 2:19Joe Flamm?

  Well, I think, you know, I remember like pre the podcast, this was like one of our initial conversations was talking about the pod. I remember telling you like, you know, this was something I really wanted to get into because I think is super fascinating. And I think what people don't realize, how many chefs that they know who have been private chefs from, you know, the top chef lineage, if you think of, you know, Kwame was Rihanna's chef for a while, you know?

• 2:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. Yep.

• 2:43Joe Flamm?

  Mei Lin was Oprah's chef for a bit. You know, Art Smith, Gordon Ramsay was a private chef for a while. He did both and like, you know, stuff like that. And I don't, I don't think people even realize how deep these roots run. So I think it's one of those things that I've been really excited for you to get into and, you know, pull the curtain back a little bit for it.

• 3:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's such a part of our industry and you know what? We, we've talked about friendship and the spirit of openness. And I know you like to joke that nobody actually knows what I do, that maybe I work for the DOJ or the CIA. And you know what? I thought about it. Like you're right. Most people don't actually know what I do for a living. Like my job is kind of nebulous. They may see me like host or judging on a cooking show. You know, I have my culinary consulting company where I do kitchen design and menu development. I do some writing. I have a, you know, my James Beard nominated cookbook, pop-ups that I've done, but not a lot of people know what I do with the rest of my time. I mean, there's not a whole lot of time left, but I do spend part of my time as a private chef.

• 3:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I work with one very exclusive client, Joe, and no, I will never tell anybody who it is. But in this series, we're going to go into my decision personally to get into private chef work and leave restaurants. And we're also going to talk to two other people that represent completely different areas of private chef work. First up, Joe, we're going to have Olivia Tiedemann, and you know her from IG, right?

• 4:20Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I mean, she has absolutely blown up. And her, her stuff's great, and I just, I love the way she cooks. It just always feels like, you know, like a cool dinner party. Like, I feel like it's the vibe with her food.

• 4:34Adrienne Cheatham?

  And she's got like 4.5 million followers on Instagram that she amassed. Yeah, she blew up, like, you know, kind of pulling back the curtain on her work as a private chef in the Hamptons. And then we're also going to have a fellow South Sider, Sam Cass.

• 4:52Joe Flamm?

  Oh, Hyde Park's own.

• 4:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. Sam, super famous for being the Obama's private chef. And he worked with them in Chicago when Barack Obama was a senator. And then he went with them to DC to the White House. And he was all involved in Michelle Obama's health initiatives. He's responsible for the White House Culinary Garden. So, you know, we're going to bring these people on and we're going to talk finally about this important part of our industry.

• 5:21Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, and I can't wait just to, to show so much light on it. I think it's such a cool, interesting thing. I think it's so unique, the path that these chefs take to get there. I think it's so surprising to people. And I think it's just a really exciting sliver of our industry that now we see more about. So it's really cool and something really, I think, special and unique to our industry that was going to be a cool thing to check out. Well, we got a lot to unpack with this, so I think we need to get into this.

• 5:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  All right, let's go, Joe.

• 5:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Joe, today, we actually are going to talk a little bit about spices and what's in our cabinets. We're also going to get back into my favorite segment. I love the name, you hate it, Whisk Takers. And then we'll have a special edition of Walking Confessions. Are you ready?

• 6:11Joe Flamm?

  Sounds like our listeners need to sign an NDA for this episode. I'm ready. Let's get into it.

• 6:18Adrienne Cheatham?

  So Joe, today, you know, I like to start off with a personal question. Friendship is like a garden, you know, we gotta water it. And as long as we've known each other, as well as we know each other, there's still a lot that we don't know about each other. And I'm sure the people want to know the answers to these questions just as much as I do. So you ready for my personal question of the day?

• 6:37Joe Flamm?

  I am ready. I'm an open book for you, AJ.

• 6:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  What is the oldest item in your pantry? That's probably expired and should probably get thrown away.

• 6:48Joe Flamm?

  I think I have two because I have, I would say I have one dry and then I have one jar.

• 6:56Joe Flamm?

  I have a jar of hot sauce that my buddy made me like during COVID. Like, because he lived across the street from me and he was a really good, really good at growing vegetables. So he would grow vegetables that I would usually make stuff with them that I'd give him back made stuff like pickles or tomato sauce or whatever. But he got into making hot sauce. And so I think I have a jar of his hot sauce from 2021. Unopened in my cabinet, so that's moved with me.

• 7:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Has the top of it kind of bubbled up?

• 7:24Joe Flamm?

  No, it's in perfect shape. He did it right. He did it right. He's a, he's a smart guy. He knows how to pickle stuff. But I think like the oldest like spice where it's like, I've had it forever is like, I have a shaker of, I know you're going to know this stuff. It's Creole seasoning. It's Tony.

• 7:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Tony Sacheri's.

• 7:41Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I have a shaker of Tony Sacheri's.

• 7:45Joe Flamm?

  That I think I've had since I lived in like my apartment like before I was married. I think this thing is like 15 years old.

• 7:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's and it's still.

• 7:55Joe Flamm?

  But I'm like, can't get rid of the Tony Satchers. Because I lived with this guy in Georgia at high school and he always had the Tony Satchers or in college. And I had never seen it before. So it's like, it's been a cupboard staple of mine. It's like, you don't, I don't use it often, but every once in a while you're like, ah, what am I looking for? I need something like, oh.

• 8:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  You gotta have it.

• 8:12Joe Flamm?

  Plus out the Uncle Tony Satchers.

• 8:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  I've never not had Tony Satchers in my pantry. And I thought about this question because I cleaned out my pantry, maybe like a month ago. And I was just doing some like general cleaning and I was like, whoa, I had a Laurie's seasoning salt that expired in 2018.

• 8:33Joe Flamm?

  That means that it was from.

• 8:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Joe Flamm?

  20 or it was from 1988. Cause I think it has a 20 year shelf life. So.

• 8:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly.

• 8:41Joe Flamm?

  That was like, that's like, that's like birth year for some people.

• 8:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Probably. I mean, it's just that. And the Tony Satchers that I have, actually, I think it expired in 22 or 23, but I didn't throw that away.

• 8:52Joe Flamm?

  I love that you're reading the expiration dates on your spices. I've never read an expiration date of a spice. I've never even thought about it. I didn't even know they were there.

• 9:01Adrienne Cheatham?

  Somebody took the time to print it on there, so I'm going to read it. Whether I follow it is totally beside the point.

• 9:09Joe Flamm?

  All right, H. So instead of line check today.

• 9:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, okay.

• 9:13Joe Flamm?

  I wanted to bring back one that we did before. We've only done it once before and I thought it was really great. I thought it was really terribly named, but I thought it was a really great segment. So you can probably guess from that.

• 9:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  I think I know.

• 9:25Joe Flamm?

  Whisk takers.

• 9:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Whisk takers, my favorite.

• 9:30Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, um, it's, I enjoyed the content. The name, name could use work. So you, you did one for me, so I wanted to get in with you a little bit of, you know, kind of for you, like, what's the biggest risk, you know, like you've taken in your career thus far?

• 9:45Adrienne Cheatham?

  That's a good question. It's something that I don't talk about a lot and we joke about it, that nobody really knows what I do. I don't talk about what I do and that's because I took a big risk leaving the restaurant world to take the job that I currently have. I'm a private chef and that was a huge risk.

• 10:03Joe Flamm?

  That is a big risk.

• 10:04Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 10:04Joe Flamm?

  And I feel like this is, you know, yeah, we always joke about it. You know what I mean? I say that you work for the CIA, DOJ, but I think that is a massive risk. So I think it's something I would love to get into more because I think like this is something people just don't know about from how you got into it to, you know, what make you decide to take that risk?

• 10:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, and I think it's, it's time we talk about it because you're right. I don't talk about it. I was kind of apprehensive about it. I definitely felt like leaving restaurants was, I was, worked for all this. I had done so much in my career and then I just seemingly walked away from it.

• 10:42Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 10:42Adrienne Cheatham?

  I see it now very differently than I did at the time. And I think this is probably the best job I've ever had, to be honest.

• 10:51Joe Flamm?

  There is a lot of mystery to what you do, particularly one, but like also the life of a private chef. And I think from how you get into it, you know, to what that day to day is like, to the kind of things, you know, I mean, it ranges so broadly, like you and I talked about it to no end. But I think, you know, for you, it's like, you know, you, you're a chef in New York. You know, you came up at unbelievable restaurants, right? Working at La Berta Dan, becoming an exec sous there, going to Red Rooster, working for Marcus Samuelson, you know what I mean? Star just on the rise, becoming this known entity in, you know, one of the greatest food cities in the world.

• 11:33Joe Flamm?

  And then you decide to make this pivot to private work. And I think like one thing people don't realize is like, that's usually how it works with most of the private chefs I've known is that they were on that same trajectory you were on. And then someone basically, you know, kind of makes them an offer they can't refuse, so to speak. And they decide to make that pivot. And it, and it's usually, there's a lot of, you know, other factors there too. It's not just a straight, oh, I want to do this because it's whatever. It's like, it's a change of balance, a change of life, a change of whatever. And you know what I mean? They want to go down that path. So I think like today, I would love to get into kind of like, one, Like, we've never really talked about like what that was like when you decided to make

• 12:16Joe Flamm?

  that decision. You know what I mean? Like, one, how you get into it, but two, like, that's a big decision to make.

• 12:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 12:23Joe Flamm?

  And like, what factors went into that? And like, you know, how you kind of went with it? And, you know what I mean? All the things that go into it. So I think like, first, just like, how did it come about? How did you go from, you know, La Bernardin and Red Rooster to be in a private show?

• 12:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  So that's, I mean, that's something that I, you're right, I absolutely do not really talk about ever, if at all, especially not publicly, because it was a hard decision. It was a really hard decision. I was at La Bernardin for eight years. I was executive sous chef of La Bernardin. I knew that I would never get to be the CDC or exec chef, because the two guys ahead of me had been there for 28 plus years each. So if I wanted to move up, I had to move out. And I had a boss who took me out for a beer one time after work and told me like, you know, I know that you really want to like, take more control, you really want a bigger role, but it's, it's not going to happen here. They're

• 13:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  not going to let you do that, because they're not going anywhere.

• 13:25Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 13:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  So you, if you want this next step in your career, you're going to have to leave. And I loved La Bernardin. I mean, I'd worked for Repair for eight years. He was like a mentor and, you know, I could go to him with questions. I could talk to him about stuff. Like, we had this sick conference room library that was like, a safe space, that if I was going to take a break, which I never really took breaks, but if I needed to take a break, I would just go to the library, pick up a book. Like, it was, it was my happy place. La Bernardin, I truly felt, I loved that environment. I knew it. I liked it. I was comfortable there. And then, I got that talk from my boss. So I went to work for Marcus Samuelson.

• 14:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  I met him at an event I was doing and you know, I live in Harlem, ran into him again. He offered me a job. I was exec chef of Red Rooster. I was also the corporate chef for the restaurant group. So I did the opening. I lived in Bermuda for four months, opening the restaurant there. I was doing all this really cool stuff. And then I was getting burned out. Honestly, I was like, I need three months off. So when I left, I'd worked for Marcus for about two years. Literally, I had maybe one and a half days off the entire time. I literally hit a wall, Joe. I was standing up. I was typing an email on my phone. I had gotten home from work. And I fell asleep, standing up, typing on my phone, and my head hit the wall.

• 14:53Adrienne Cheatham?

  I was like, I need time off. So I gave notice. About a month later, I left and I planned on taking three months off. And I liked it so much, I took more time off. But I'd only budgeted for three.

• 15:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  When that budget runs out, you're like, oh, I need a job. Like, what's happening? And so I got this offer and it was a really good offer. There is a concierge who had a client who was looking for a private chef and they called Le Bernardin to ask for people who had been in management. Who is a sous chef? Who is somebody who's run operations that you could recommend? Personality and skill wise, to be a private chef for this client. Chef Repair and the team at Le Bernardin recommended me. I got a phone call. I talked to Chef Repair and I was like, never. I'm never doing private work. Are you kidding me? I had had an offer to join Danielle Boulud's restaurant group. I had another offer to do a tasting.

• 15:55Adrienne Cheatham?

  Um, after Mark Ladner left Del Posto and they were looking for a new chef. So I had some really cool options. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to restaurants. I talked to Chef Repair and he was like, Audrey, you are crazy. Do it for one year. You'll make good money. You'll have weekends off and you'll be home by nine or 10 o'clock at the latest. I was like, okay, one year, you're right chef, I'll give it a shot. So I did a tasting, I got offered the job and then I went to do Top Chef also. So I did the tasting, but my-

• 16:27Joe Flamm?

  You were on Top Chef?

• 16:28Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah. You know, this, this thing is, you know, it's, it's a, it's a little TV show. It's, it's pretty cool though. You might like it.

• 16:34Joe Flamm?

  Oh, I'll check it out.

• 16:35Adrienne Cheatham?

  You should try out, you should try out for it.

• 16:37Joe Flamm?

  How'd it go?

• 16:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  It went all right, you know, if you're not first, you're last, but you know, I think I did all right. But, so I made my start date with the private client after coming back from Top Chef. So that was two months, came back. So I had been off of work for like six, eight months at this point, came back to the private chef job. And I have worked for this client for seven years, eight years. Never something I saw myself doing in this industry at all. And it was a huge risk because I felt like I was walking away from everything that I had built over 15 plus years.

• 17:14Joe Flamm?

  Well, and it was, you know, and I think it's, you're like, okay, this is everything you had to do to fight, scrape, claw your way to be who you were at La Bernardette, right? To go from there, to be who you were in Marcus's group. And now you're like, all right, you have, I mean, those aren't like job offers. Those are monster offers, Del Posto, Balud, like that's the stuff you dream of. When you're in culinary school, right? Helm in one of those ships. Those are things that put your career on the map, right?

• 17:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? That's the stuff that gets you put in magazines, that gets you noticed, that gets your name in the right circles to win awards and all those things. And so to go from that, to have to say like, is this the road I want to stay on?

• 17:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right. I wasn't sure if I wanted, I wasn't sure what I wanted, to be honest. I, I knew I wanted more autonomy. That's one thing that I know because I had worked for people for so long, I had never been my own boss. And the reason, the main reason I took the private job was because the person was actually really cool. And like down to earth, super cool individual. I was like, okay, I can do a year, you know, totally fine. And then I knew that I would have enough time to start my pop-up series and do everything else that I wanted to do. So I could keep getting my name out there. But just not talk about what I do Monday through Friday on a full-time basis. And if people see me, they think that I'm the chef of this pop-up series.

• 18:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  They don't know about the private work and that was fine. I didn't talk about private work. I signed an NDA, you know, I like, I don't talk about that. So the pop-up series, doing television, doing collabs, doing brand work. That was what my focus was on and doing private work gave me the space and time to be able to actually do those things.

• 19:04Joe Flamm?

  Well, it's funny, you know, I had a friend who, you know, kind of the same thing. She came up, same time I came up, she was running Lula Cafe when I was running Spiaja. You know what I mean? James Beard finalist, incredible chef. And then somebody came and got her from there to do private work. And I think she felt a way about it for a long time, but she still does private work. This is years now. Where she's like, oh, like, almost like, I think in the beginning of like, oh, this is like lesser than, right?

• 19:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 19:33Joe Flamm?

  Like, you know what I mean? Like I threw in the towel and I'm like, no, dude, like you're just on a different path. Like, and I think it's like what we forget sometimes. And I think there was such a stigma of like, you know what I mean? Like, and chefs are the stupidest. So we're like, you know, it's like, oh, if you're not like, you're not going to die over the stove. You're not a real chef. Like, you know what I mean? Like, but I think it's like at the beginning of all this, right? Like, the reason we got into this is because like, we wanted to do something that we loved and that made us happy for our career. Right? And I think of the early days of it, you, you're like believing in the idea of that, like someday this will be enough to make you a living. And that you'll be able to make a living doing something you love and that makes you happy.

• 20:15Joe Flamm?

  And, you know, I mean, in conversation with her, I remember like when she was into it for a little while. And I'm like, does this make you happy? She's like, yes.

• 20:25Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 20:25Joe Flamm?

  She's like, I'm very happy. My life is very good. Like, I really like it. And then it's like, then nothing else matters.

• 20:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  Like, I get to, I get to play with food for a living.

• 20:37Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I get to do it on a personal level. Like I'm connecting with the person that I'm cooking for. I'm controlling everything that leaves the kitchen because I'm the only one touching it. And it's exciting. Every day is different. Every day is challenging. You're doing everything from the shopping to the receiving. You're the pastry chef, you're the prep cook, you're the, you know, you're the butcher, you're the baker, you're the candlestick maker. Like, you know, you're doing everything soup to nuts. So it is, I've developed skills and improved on skills that I never thought I'd have a chance to work on. And I get to do all this cool stuff. I can make anything from a bowl of chili to like the most elaborate technical dish on any given day of the week.

• 21:18Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. And I think like, you know, one of the things people don't realize about that work is like, this is why most of the people in that work are taken from these really big restaurants because it's like, it's a massive, I think it's like, you know, in my mind, like from most of the people I've known who've done it, like the logistics of it are massive, right? You know what I mean? And it's just like, also, it's like, you don't really have a team. Like maybe, you know, some people I know, like they'll have like a house manager they work with for the person or whatever. But it's like, you don't have a team. So you're, you're, you're, you're a one, you know, woman shop.

• 21:50Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 21:50Joe Flamm?

  For, for everything. Like you said, like sourcing for, you know what I mean? Prep to doing all those things and like what a massive undertaking that is. Dealing with dietary restrictions of all level, doing everything from, you know, dinner for a family to like, at least the people I've known where it's like, usually if you're on the level where you have a private chef in your home, like you are not just hosting like, oh, this is the person who cooks this dinner five nights a week, which it's like they might be, and they might be meal prepping for you and doing that. But it's also like, most people are usually like, they're hosting like fundraisers at their house. You know what I mean? Where they're having 40 person seated dinners that are five courses with wine pairings.

• 22:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  Any given day, I could be cooking for one person and I pretty much just do dinner. I'm not doing breakfast. I'm not doing lunch. I'm pretty much just doing dinner, you know, during the week. And I could be doing dinner for one, two, I could be doing a dinner, eight courses for 20 people with wine pairing. I could be doing an elaborate luncheon buffet for 40 people from one of the top art institutions in the country. I could be doing, you know, a, a family dinner for 16 people plated three courses. You know, it's every day is so challenging and so special and I can bring in sous chefs to help me.

• 23:05Adrienne Cheatham?

  But it's so cool because I never thought with private work, number one, the reason I was opposed to doing it is my dad is from Mississippi. He already told me I was taking the family backwards when I told him I wanted to be a restaurant chef. So the thought of doing private work as a woman and as a black woman was like, ah, it's, there's just this other social stigma. Like forget the industry stigma. I was like, like, oh God, this is like some Gone with the Wind type shit. Like.

• 23:33Joe Flamm?

  I can't even fathom like how that in the, the psyche of it, you know what I mean? Of your like, I'm a black woman in some rich person's kitchen again, right?

• 23:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right.

• 23:44Joe Flamm?

  Like and not kind of feeling like that a little bit, right? Like, you know what I mean? Even though that's like not what that job is.

• 23:49Adrienne Cheatham?

  Not at all. And the client is so, so wonderful and so respectful and so genuinely appreciates the art and the craft of food. That that's never how I've been treated.

• 24:03Joe Flamm?

  No, you guys are closer to like private security than like house. You know what I mean? It's like, listen, I have my person, they have knives, they travel with me, they can go anywhere, anytime.

• 24:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 24:15Joe Flamm?

  They are better than any person on your team. You're like the green berets, like, you know, and it's like, and it's.

• 24:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  You're like a culinary mercenary.

• 24:23Joe Flamm?

  Right. And I think it's like, what people don't realize, I think the most difficult thing about private work in my mind, besides like the logistics, the organization, the, you know, you have to have a tremendous amount of flexibility with it, right? You know what I mean? If they say, hey, like, you know, we were gonna have dinner here, but now we're moving it an hour and a half away from here and I need you to figure it out and get everything there. And I need you to find staff and do all these things. It's like, that's on you. Figure it the fuck out.

• 24:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep. Failure is never an option.

• 24:48Joe Flamm?

  Also, I think it's like the range you need. Ton of good chefs out there, right? And I think the great chefs have great range where they can do from, you know, and people probably think it's silly, but it's like. They assume like, oh, somebody worked in, you know, three Michelin star kitchens. They can do a beautiful lunch buffet. It's like, maybe not.

• 25:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Joe Flamm?

  They maybe never done it.

• 25:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  A buffet is a totally different skill set.

• 25:12Joe Flamm?

  Cook lunch for 150 people and make it look good.

• 25:14Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 25:14Joe Flamm?

  They maybe never had to, you know, figure out the logistics of, you know, a 300 person barbecue. They maybe never had to, you know, roast a whole animal, whatever it is. And it's like, I think in the private chef game, you have to have that huge range.

• 25:29Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Joe Flamm?

  And at least have the confidence in like, if this isn't something that's like totally in my wheelhouse, I'll be able to figure it out.

• 25:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yep.

• 25:36Joe Flamm?

  Or I'll be able to source, you know, through my network, somebody who's going to get me there.

• 25:41Adrienne Cheatham?

  Exactly.

• 25:42Joe Flamm?

  And also like, it's going to be fucking perfect.

• 25:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  It's, it would be perfect every time because

• 25:46Joe Flamm?

  Right.

• 25:46Adrienne Cheatham?

  that's the standard that I hold because of my background and my training. And this is actually the first job where I really feel like I have been training for this my whole life. So I started my career in pastry. I worked in hotels, so I'm familiar with volume. I opened a wine bar with La Bernardine. I set up the private dining space that we opened at La Bernardine and helped create the systems to do high level cuisine for five, 600 people. I was part of that planning. I was part of that build out. I got to see so many different things in my career that are just so different. Not to mention the parts of the industry that my mother worked in, that I was a witness to my whole life growing up.

• 26:30Adrienne Cheatham?

  So it's like everything that I've seen and done throughout my career came together in this one way. And it's so cool. Like I'm doing everything from managing inventory, kitchen build outs, kitchen design for new properties. Like it's so amazing. I never thought when I left the restaurant industry that I would be doing kitchen design again. But here I am getting to design kitchens and create efficient layouts for properties in several different places. And then I get to travel to them and cook in them, make sure that I give the construction punch list. Like it's, it's a skill set that, that I really feel like is so specialized. And every time I'm like, this is the coolest job I have ever had.

• 27:15Adrienne Cheatham?

  It really is.

• 27:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  So it's, you know, it's so personal and it's so dependent on the person that the high level people looking for, I think like they refer to them as like high net worth, H N W clients or whatever. They are looking for people typically who have come from fine dining, but have had management experience because they need to know that you can execute all different types of things and they'll throw stuff at you and the name of the game is always be ready.

• 27:50Joe Flamm?

  Yeah. And I remember talking, I got to cook a lunch at the State Department. I worked for Tony Montwado and I met the chef of the State Department and it was when John Kerry was Secretary of State.

• 28:00Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nice.

• 28:01Joe Flamm?

  And he was saying that like, you know, they're basically private chefs for whoever's Secretary of State. And so, you know, we were doing a luncheon for 125 people that included, you know, the Vice President Joe Biden at the time, the Prime Minister of Italy, God knows who else was in the room. We were, I was not allowed in it. And he's like, yeah, sometimes we do this. And he's like, sometimes it's just John Kerry showing up and being like, you know, I'll be like, oh, we made this for lunch. And he'll be like, I would like New England clam chowder. He's like, so then it's like, I have to make New England clam chowder. Like, and hopefully I have the stuff. You know what I mean? He's like, or I have to figure out how to get that stuff really, really fast.

• 28:40Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Joe Flamm?

  They're not like opening the fridge and they're like, oh, hey, age, I noticed, you know, these, these apples are about to go. Why don't you whip me up some of the apples?

• 28:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  Why don't you go ahead and make some apple pie for the, you know, for, for everybody for the weekend? No, I'm, I'm so lucky that my private client will usually check in in the morning. I'm like, hey, what's up? You home for dinner tonight? Could be a yes, could be a no, could be a two people for dinner tonight. Um, or the house manager will check with him in the morning and relay the information to me. So I don't have to bother the client. So, you know, I'll find out usually in the morning if there's a special request, but 99.9% of the time, I decide the menu and I don't have to get it cleared. It's like, I go to the market. I see what looks good. I pick a dish in my brain and then I make it happen that evening.

• 29:29Joe Flamm?

  Well, that's also part of that relationship, right? Is that you've been cooking for this client long enough where it's just like, yeah, like Adrian knows what I like.

• 29:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 29:37Joe Flamm?

  You know what I mean? Is going to cook the way I like. And so, you know, for them not to have to think about it all. You know what I mean? Like they're just like, oh yeah, I'm gonna get home and there's dinner.

• 29:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  Getting to have something taken off your plate. If you're gonna have dinner, it's gonna be something you like and you don't have to worry about it.

• 29:53Joe Flamm?

  Okay, so I have one last question for this part of it.

• 29:56Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:56Joe Flamm?

  That I'm curious about because I've I have not worked in the private chef dinner. I I've cooked in a ton of people's homes, done dinners like this, you know, I worked for Art Smith, who was a very famous private chef for a long time for a Miss Oprah Winfrey.

• 30:10Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes.

• 30:11Joe Flamm?

  If you've heard of her. But so, you know, I have some exposure to it. But you know what I always think about is like, what would you say is like, the number one thing, though? You miss from restaurants? Because I will I will tell you mine of like, you know, just from like covid era being off, where it's like, I'm a chef who loves service.

• 30:31Joe Flamm?

  Like, give me the wheel, let me run. I want to be on a line. I want to be with my crew. I want to be slanging pans. I want to go. Like, and when I don't get that enough, I'm like, cranky. Like, you know what I mean? I'm like, I I fiend for it.

• 30:47Adrienne Cheatham?

  You get like hangry for service?

• 30:48Joe Flamm?

  I go on vacation and by like the sixth day, I'm like, who's gonna let me like, pick up a brunch shift at this resort?

• 30:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right, right. So, missing service is real. Like, that was a very hard thing. But I was also trying to get the hang of being a private chef in the beginning. So at first, I was just like, trying to not fuck it up, you know, from day to day. And and I went through my first year and a half of never repeating a single dish. Unless my client was like, holy shit, that was amazing. And then a couple of days later was like, hey, could you make me what you made the other Tuesday? Like, that was sick. Can you do that again?

• 31:23Joe Flamm?

  I don't repeat. I'm the Charlie Trotter of private chefs. I repeat nothing.

• 31:27Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I, you know, luckily, I would take pictures of the dish every day so I could remember what I was doing. But I didn't repeat a single dish for a year and a half. And I was really proud of that, you know, closer to two years, never repeating a dish, unless it was like some meal prep stuff that I would leave behind for the weekends. But the thing that I miss most was the camaraderie in kitchens.

• 31:50Joe Flamm?

  Yeah.

• 31:51Adrienne Cheatham?

  Because there is something about kitchen people. We are this merry band of weirdos. And sometimes people in kitchens like, look at us. Physically, we look different, but we are so similar. So it's like that from kitchen to kitchen, city to city, we have the same stories. We have some of the same personalities and character traits. So you often have more in common with the person next to you on the line than sometimes you do with like friends or family. And I miss that camaraderie of like, everybody has a single goal, a single push. We're all fighting for the same thing. We all know each other. We respect each other. That is, you know, that's kind of what I miss about restaurants.

• 32:36Joe Flamm?

  Sharing the line with someone is so special.

• 32:38Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 32:39Joe Flamm?

  I've said it a lot and I talk about it all the time, but it's like, you know, even when I've got to go back and like, you know, I don't know if you've ever had, but like, you know, I did a dinner a couple of years ago and, you know, one of my good friends who, you know, we came up as a goat together. We were torn knots together. We were sous together. And we were in Florida and we were cooking a dinner and he was helping Steph out, my buddy Aaron. And it's like, it was me, him and Taco actually. And we were all working the line together. And, you know, it was just like, man, like for a moment, it was like, you know, we're 25 again.

• 33:12Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 33:12Joe Flamm?

  You know, slinging pans at the goat, just pushing a service. And it was like, you can't describe how that feels. You know what I mean? And like a weird reliving your glory days kind of thing. But it's like the specialness of like, how close you feel with these people doing this silly thing. Like we do a silly thing. We make food. You know what I mean? It's not, it's not serious. You know what I mean? We're not, you know what I mean? This isn't battle. This isn't surgery. This isn't any of these things. We're making food. But it's like, there's a closeness and a camaraderie there that is truer than most things in this world.

• 33:44Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah.

• 33:45Joe Flamm?

  So yeah, I totally get that. That would be a hard one for me. I would definitely miss that. You know what I mean? And obviously, you know, I'm very close with my crews and, you know, type with them. Like that would be. That'd be hard.

• 33:54Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, the hard, but that's, you know, I started the pop-up series when I started doing private work. So I was still in restaurants doing, I was doing pop-ups two, three times a month, working Monday through Friday, prepping after work when I got home Friday, prep in the restaurant Saturday, and then do my Sunday best series on Sundays at different restaurants. So I was still in the kitchen and it kind of helped like wean me off.

• 34:18Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, like scratch that itch a little bit, you know, you're like, I need a little, I need a little shot of that.

• 34:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  I didn't just quit cold turkey, you know?

• 34:28Joe Flamm?

  I need to hear a walk-in confession of the private chef world when that shit did not go swish or sweep.

• 34:39Adrienne Cheatham?

  Nobody's perfect, including me, as it turns out. And there was this one time, Joe Flamm, this one time I was in the south of France, and normally I will advance before the client and I will get the kitchen set up. I'll get everything going. I'll get some prep done, vinaigrette sauces, stuff that I can keep in the fridge. So I have it for the, you know, the start of when we get rolling. And I got there the same time the client did. Client landed in the chopper. I'm driving in from another country to the south of France, meet at the property and had to scramble. That's on me. That was my poor planning. Flight delays, whatever, but that's on me.

• 35:22Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I have to bake bread that night and very light dinner. The light dinner was fine. This bread, however, I had a sous chef, a local sous chef, who did the shopping and organized the kitchen for me. So when I got there, I wasn't coming in completely cold. The local sous chef, bless his heart, did not label some of the dry goods that were put into plastic containers on the spice shelf. So I'm making this bread and it's, it's a sweet bread and I needed sugar. So I opened this container. I am balls to the wall trying to, because I gotta get the bread in the oven first, then make the dinner so it can all hit the table at the same time.

• 36:03Adrienne Cheatham?

  So I'm scrambling to get this dough to rise and get it ready. So I, um. Take this white crystal container. I look at it in the light. It's sparkling. Sugar sparkles. I'm like, great. This is sugar. I didn't taste it. Like Missy with the grapefruit. Just like Missy Robbins with the grapefruit.

• 36:23Joe Flamm?

  Yep.

• 36:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah. So I put about a half a cup of salt into this bread dough.

• 36:30Joe Flamm?

  Just destroyed your yeast. Destroyed your yeast. Like, I feel like, you know what I mean? That's like, just, that is a sucker punch from the rafters to your yeast for that bread, huh?

• 36:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  And I'm like, you know what? I'll proof them really quickly. I'll just like, I'll kind of proof them with a damp towel over as the oven is preheating. So as the oven's preheating, I'm like, okay, well, you know, let me turn the steam up in the combi. Like, let me, let me get this to proof a little more because it doesn't seem to be rising. But again, I'm scrambling because I have about 30 minutes. So I'm like, didn't pay it the attention it deserved. Baked off the bread, sent it to the table with the dinner afterward.

• 37:11Joe Flamm?

  Did you, you, hold on, hold on, hold on. Did you try the bread before it went out? You didn't. You fucking didn't. Don't lie.

• 37:17Adrienne Cheatham?

  After it went out. I did not try it.

• 37:20Joe Flamm?

  Chef, taste your food. Taste your food. That's so on you.

• 37:24Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, one. One oh one. Taste your food. So I didn't taste it. I packed the bread basket, sent that, plated the food, sent that so the table could be ready. And then I take a piece of bread, smear some butter on it, and I take a bite. I was like, fuck my life. It's like, oh no. I was like, no. So I'm like, running out. The table is so far away on the property. You know, the waiter had already set the table. I was like, oh, this is, this is horrible. So by the time I go out there, the client's already eating and at the table. And God bless them. Like, they didn't say anything. I just noticed that like the bread had been torn. And then kind of left there. And I was like, how is everything? They're like,

• 38:09Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, for every dinner's great. This, this plate right here. This is great. This is awesome. I was like,

• 38:14Joe Flamm?

  That almost makes it worse. Where you like, you just see the remnants of be like, you're like, I know you hated it. Just say it.

• 38:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Just tell me. So I literally, I just picked up the bread basket. I was like, let me go ahead and get this out of your way. Like, I'll get this out of here. It was just.

• 38:28Joe Flamm?

  So was it, was it super salty? But was it also like, I mean, the texture of it had to be kind of fucked up too, right?

• 38:33Adrienne Cheatham?

  It was so salty and so dense, Joe.

• 38:36Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, I was gonna say it had to be like really dense too. Not even like, oh, it's a beautiful texture, but it's salty. So like this bread is good. But it's like, not only is this bread bad, it's salty. You're like, listen, what this bread lacks in structure, it makes up for it. It's salty.

• 38:53Joe Flamm?

  You're like, French bread, salty like the sea, right? We're the south of France. It's very Provench style.

• 38:58Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, that was, yeah, that was my, uh, my walk in confession.

• 39:01Joe Flamm?

  And bread mistakes? It's like, cooking mistakes are like painting mistakes. You can repaint that. You can fix it pretty quick. Bread mistake is a cement mistake.

• 39:11Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yes. And it was like cement.

• 39:13Joe Flamm?

  It's like, this is gonna be a lot. Like, we gotta start over. Get the sledgehammer. You fucked up.

• 39:19Adrienne Cheatham?

  Yeah, yes.

• 39:21Joe Flamm?

  And that's, oh my god.

• 39:23Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, it was hor- I couldn't even like use the leftover bread to like make croutons or breadcrumbs. It was just trash.

• 39:29Joe Flamm?

  No, you could like dehydrated it and made maldon.

• 39:34Joe Flamm?

  You're like, oh, bread salt from the south of France.

• 39:36Adrienne Cheatham?

  Right.

• 39:37Joe Flamm?

  They'd sell it at Dean and DeLuca's for forty seven dollars for four ounces.

• 39:43Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, it was hilarious. And, and the client was very gracious, but yeah.

• 39:48Joe Flamm?

  Yeah, that, but that is like nightmare. Especially it's like, we've all done the, oh, I didn't taste this yet. And then you taste it right after it goes out and you're like, oh no. Like, oh no. Why did I not taste this? That really, that really made my day. Thanks for that. Thanks for that. You know, I think of you as perfection all the time. But you know, even, even the great Adrian Cheeto makes mistakes.

• 40:13Adrienne Cheatham?

  Oh, Joe, there's been so many.

• 40:14Joe Flamm?

  I think that's a good place to, you know, call it a week for this week, Age.

• 40:21Adrienne Cheatham?

  Joe, you know, it actually feels good to get that off of my chest and talk about this finally. So, everybody, don't forget, next week, we have episode two of our Private Chef series with Olivia Teedman. Joe, let everybody know where they can find you until then.

• 40:37Joe Flamm?

  You can find me online at Insaflam or in real life at Il Carchofo, Rosemary, or Boulevard Steakhouse in Chicago. Age, when you're not in the south of France, where can they find you?

• 40:48Adrienne Cheatham?

  You can find me at Chef Adrian Cheatham on Instagram. You can also find us at The Chef's Cut Pod on IG as well to keep up with everything, including new episodes that drop every Tuesday. So, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a new one.

• 41:03Joe Flamm?

  I'm Joe Flamm and for Adrian Cheatham, this has been The Chef's Cut.

• 41:08Adrienne Cheatham?

  Life beyond the past.