185. Dr. Neha Sangwan: The 5 Questions That Predict a Health Crisis Before It Happens

I have operated on patients whose bodies had been sending them warning signals for years before a crisis ever put them in front of me. Stress alone causes or worsens more than 80 percent of the illness I see, and most of it traces back to one skill almost nobody was ever taught: how to actually listen to their own body. We dive deeper into this in the Extend Podcast with Dr. Neha Sangwan. We also chat about the five questions she asks every patient before sending them home, why your boss has more influence on your health than your doctor does, and the five levels of connection that determine whether a relationship heals you or drains you. Dr. Neha Sangwan is an internal medicine physician and former hospitalist who also trained as a mechanical and biomedical engineer. She is the founder and CEO of Intuitive Intelligence, where she works as an executive health and performance coach for corporate leaders and their teams. She is the author of TalkRx: Five Steps to Honest Conversations that Create Connection, Health, and Happiness, and Powered by Me: From Burned Out to Fully Charged at Work and in Life. What We Discuss: (1:09) Why training as both a mechanical engineer and a physician led straight to burnout at 34. (2:29) The Awareness Prescription: the five questions she asks every patient the night before discharge. (9:59) The Body Map: how physical signals are data your doctor never sees. (16:54) Why your leader has more influence on your health than your doctor does. (22:48) The five-step framework for walking into any hard conversation clearly and calmly. (30:34) The five-hour shift and the question from a nurse that first told her she was burning out. (34:13) Net gain versus net drain: mapping where your energy leaks and where it grows. (40:07) The five levels of exchange, from broken to sacred. Thank You to Our Sponsors: Next Health Longevity Summit: Head to next-health.com/summit https://www.next-health.com/summit to secure your spot at the first ever Next Health Longevity Summit in Nashville on 9/12. Function Health: Learn more and join using my link. Visit www.functionhealth.com/drshah http://www.functionhealth.com/drshah and use gift code DRSHAH25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: drshah.com https://www.drshah.com/ Clinic: next-health.com https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram: @darshanshahmd https://www.instagram.com/darshanshahmd/ Learn more about Dr. Neha Sangwan: Website: intuitiveintelligenceinc.com/ https://intuitiveintelligenceinc.com/ Instagram: @doctorneha https://www.instagram.com/doctorneha/ LinkedIn: drnehasangwan https://www.linkedin.com/in/drnehasangwan/ Book: intuitiveintelligenceinc.com/powered-by-me/ http://intuitiveintelligenceinc.com/powered-by-me/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Before we get started with this episode, I'd like to invite all of you to the first ever Next Health Longevity Summit, happening in Nashville, Tennessee, at the Conrad Hotel on Saturday, September 12, 2026. This is an all-day summit where you're going to be hearing from some of the best speakers in longevity's medicine, including Dr. Vonda Wright, Dr. Luisa Nicola, many of the podcast guests that you've heard here on the Extend Podcast, and of course, I'm going to be there, curating the entire day. We also have incredible vendors coming, so you can try the latest technologies in health, wellness, and longevity. Go to next-health.com/summit and buy your ticket today. We only have 400 spots and

• 0:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  they're going quickly. That's next-health.com/summit. I look forward to seeing you all there.

• 0:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board-certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We are living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 1:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend, the podcast dedicated to helping you live a longer, healthier, more fulfilling life. Today, I have the immense privilege of speaking with Dr. Neha Sangwan, a true pioneer in the understanding of the mind-body connection. Dr. Sangwan is an MD, a board-certified internal medicine physician, and a former hospitalist, who also holds a degree in mechanical engineering. After experiencing burnout herself and witnessing patients arrive in crisis, she transitioned from treating illness to preventing it, focusing on the upstream causes of disease. Her groundbreaking work emphasizes how communication, both with ourselves and others, profoundly impacts our health. She's the author of insightful books that guide individuals to unlock their inner wisdom and transforming their well-being.

• 2:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Get ready to discover her unique awareness prescription and learn how listening to your body's subtle signals can be your most powerful tool for health and longevity. This is an episode you don't want to miss.

• 2:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hey, everyone. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk about something that you hear me talk a lot about, your biomarkers. And I want to tell you how I'm approaching this situation right now with all of the patients that are calling me from listening to this podcast. So what happens is, every day, patients are writing to me, saying they feel exhausted, they can't lose weight, they're having brain fog, and they see their doctor, and the doctor tells them all their blood work is normal. But the problem is, this doctor usually is only checking about 10 to 15 biomarkers that only tell you if you have a disease developing. Meanwhile, your body has 160 different systems that are running. Then all of these have blood tests that we can test on how effective they're working for you every single day. So if someone is not close to one of my clinics,

• 3:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  one of my Next Health clinics, then I tell them, go to their local laboratory and get on Function Health. Function Health gives you access to 160 different biomarkers, the same kind of comprehensive testing that we do at all of our Next Health clinics. And if you try to get this on your own through your regular doctor, it can cost you thousands of dollars. Hormones, inflammation, toxins, nutrient levels, they're all tracked over time in this one platform called Function Health. They can even help you get an MRI scan or a CT scan if you want one. So what I love most about this company is that they don't have a crazy incentive to do this. Function doesn't push supplements, they don't have pharmaceuticals they're trying to get you to take. You're just getting the data, and you're getting insights from the data. And you can bring this data to a clinic

• 4:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  like ours, and we then have the information that we need to tell you how to improve your health. Membership is now only $365 a year. Literally, it's just a dollar a day. And right now, if you're one of my listeners, you can get a $25 credit towards the membership. You just go to the link in the bio, or go to functionhealth.com/DrShah, and use the code DRSHAH25 for a $25 credit towards your membership.

• 4:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Sangwan, thank you for joining me today.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  What an honor. Thanks for inviting me.

• 4:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's really great to have you. I've heard so much about you, and can't wait to talk to you about what your newest book is about, what your last book is about. We're going to have a great conversation. So you're an MD, right?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  You bet.

• 4:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And what type of medicine did you practice in the past?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Internal medicine. And I was a hospitalist.

• 4:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  So I was the one in the hospital where someone comes in from the emergency department. I took care of them through their hospital stay, because some people don't even, don't recognize that.

• 4:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  But it's the acute care medicine.

• 5:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, there's doctors that basically just live in the hospital, taking care of people in the hospital, and that was you.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  And we never left residency. Yes, that's right.

• 5:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's like an eternal residency.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  It is.

• 5:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, no.

• 5:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's painful.

• 5:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You switched your careers a little while ago.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I did.

• 5:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And you saw a much bigger need for your skills outside of the hospital, right? Can you talk us about that transition a little bit?

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I'll tell you that as a good Indian child, I am both a mechanical engineer and an internal medicine physician.

• 5:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, okay.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  And that led me straight to burnout at 34 years old.

• 5:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  And that's when, that was one of my first wake-up calls. And the other one would be when my patients would say to me, "Dr. Sangwan, this was so helpful, this conversation you had with me the night before I was discharged. Why was the price of meeting you, a heart attack, or a stroke, or a pneumonia, why isn't someone like you, out in the world 20 years earlier, helping me before my stress got me to this level?" And for about seven years, I said to them, because this is what they pay me for. They pay me to clean up the mess, not prevent it. And that was 20 years ago, when no one was talking about this, right? And so I just feel so honored to meet a fellow soul on this journey that

• 6:17Speaker 01

  understands what I mean when I say "good Indian child." And you understand what I mean when I say, "We just weren't looking farther upstream."

• 6:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. And that's the problem with medicine, is we don't look farther upstream.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And so, you know, I really appreciate that you've kind of bring this dimension to our field, because people are getting sick, and our traditional diagnostics aren't telling us why, right?

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And your first book identified communication as an issue that makes you sick. So unpack that for me. How does that happen?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Well, if I build on what we just talked about, which is my patients, I did something really interesting the night before I discharged them. I had realized that we had taken care of their physical health, but I knew that stress causes or exacerbates more than 80% of illness.

• 7:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  I learned that when I went on burnout leave myself. I started doing all this research. So I said, "Well, what if we get to the root of their stress? Should that be part of their prescription when they leave?"

• 7:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  So I came up with five questions that I call the awareness prescription. And for those of you listening, you can use this for far more than your physical health. You can even use it in business. You can use it. It's much more applicable. But let me tell you what I asked them the night before I discharged them. So now they're stable. I'd say, "Question number one, why this? Why a heart attack? Why did this part of your body break down? Why not your liver, your left leg? Is there any significance to you?" And whatever their answer was, was the right answer. They would just speak from the heart. It was amazing. So I'll give you an example, like a Vietnam vet said to me, "Oh, I know why I had a heart attack. I haven't cried since Vietnam, when I lost

• 8:01Speaker 01

  all my buddies. I have been crying for the last two days. This heart attack gave me like legitimacy, that I could actually open my heart again."

• 8:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, wow.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  And I was like, whoa. The second question. So that one is, why this? It was, why now? So why not three years ago? Why not two weeks from now? Tell me why your body, what's the message your body wanted you to get that it stopped you in this moment, put you in a hospital bed, and had you here with me? And they'd say, you know, "I've been pushing through this tightness in my chest. I've been ignoring my sleep. I've been making everybody else more important than me." They knew exactly what it was. Question number three is, if hindsight's 20/20, since hindsight is usually 20/20, tell me what clue, pattern,

• 8:52Speaker 01

  symptom, you know, have you missed that now makes perfect sense? And they would say things like, you know, "Oh, I had this headache, but then I would just take a pill to get me through a meeting," or whatever it is. Now I understand that that was the signal. So I just wanted them to start picking these signals up earlier. And then the fourth one was, what else in your life needs to be healed? And the last one, this one always got them. I said, "If you spoke from the heart, what would you say to me?" And so by the time they had gone through those other ones, and now them and I have gone through this crisis together, they just opened up, and they all knew what was at the root of their stress, what they needed to do, and I made that part of my prescription.

• 9:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's such a great technique.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and 80% of it, 75, 80% of it, was their inability to communicate with themselves and pick up signals, or their inability to communicate with someone else. Like, they'd say, you know, I, one of them even said, you know, "I abandoned my son because he married outside of our faith." And me cutting myself off from him, his family, and my grandchildren is exactly what's making me sick.

• 10:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  And so they knew. So I think the beautiful thing is, I think as physicians, we've been schooled to write a prescription, but as a coach, I could see at the intersection of asking questions and then turning their answers into their own prescription.

• 10:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. It's a really cool thing that we're able to do, is give a prescription.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But this is a different way of framing it, where you're actually having them write their own prescription through this series of five questions.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  You bet. And I call it the awareness prescription.

• 10:33Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  So I'll make sure we give it to you, so that if anybody wants, like, what are those questions?

• 10:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, we'll definitely put them in our show notes, for sure. So, you know, why do you think it is that people have an inability to communicate with themselves?

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Hmm, such a great question. Really, I think it starts from the beginning of our lives. We come from the inside out when we arrive here, literally from inside our mother.

• 10:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  But we're living from the inside out when we arrive. What do I mean? I mean, if I'm hungry, or my diaper's wet, or I'm tired, I cry. I don't care what's going on. I don't care if we're in public. I don't care if we're in private. I live from the inside out, but very quickly, because I depend on the world around me. The world around me starts teaching me to work from the outside in. This is not the appropriate time. You are not allowed to. If you go in your room and you don't come out until you have a smile on your face. All of a sudden, we start adjusting to our caretakers, to our society. We want to belong.

• 11:34Speaker 01

  And so in our need for belonging, we start arranging our behavior, our lives, our purpose for our work. And our world starts coming from the outside in.

• 11:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  What is success? Well, who defines success? To my immigrant parents, it was a million dollars in the bank or your own home.

• 11:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  But that was external measures of success. I don't know if that was really the internal happiness factor that came. So why do I think this happens? I think by the time I meet people in the ER, they've been in a career. They've been in a marriage that isn't working, but they don't know how to voice it. But they've been taught that they need to care more about what things look like, seem like, behave like, right? Like what other people will think of them more than they care about themselves.

• 12:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, people stop listening to themselves and therefore they stop communicating with themselves.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  They do, because it's survival.

• 12:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  But like, when you think about it, when we're little, it's our family. But then we move into our teen years. Who do we care about?

• 12:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, our friends.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Our peers. Who do? And then we go into college, it's, you know, or work, and it becomes our peers. And then we get in a relationship and now it's our in-laws, our partner, whatever.

• 12:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's so true. It's really, it's really a, it's really something to be aware of, of yourself. But then having a tool to then flip that narrative, like your five questions, for example, makes it real, right? But you know, I think about people that are asking themselves, or maybe they're going to the show notes. They're going to ask themselves these five questions.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But you know, like you mentioned, people normally come to these five questions when they're going through a crisis, like a heart attack, right? You don't want to wait that long, right?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You should, people should be asking these questions now.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 13:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What gives people the motivation to ask these questions now? How do you, you coach a lot of people, right?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  I do.

• 13:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Is this what you first talk to them about when you, what is the motivation there?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  So Darshan, think about our medical training.

• 13:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  We, very early on, studied physiology. Nobody ever told us that, it's what I now call our body map. You and I have physiology. If we get stressed, our blood pressure goes up, our heart starts racing. Something will happen internally, but you and I will experience stress differently. So you have a unique body map.

• 14:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  And I have a unique body map. So when, when I move out of my comfort zone, the first thing that happens is my throat starts constricting. And I can feel a little bit of a swirling in my stomach. Do you know what it is for you? How does your body map talk to you when you get outside your comfort zone?

• 14:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  My heart starts beating really fast and I feel like I'm having like palpitations.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  So do you see how two doctors, two Indians, like we probably have a lot of things in common. But boy, our body map speaks uniquely to us. So I also know that when I don't speak my full truth, when I'm not saying what I need to say, that signal alone comes without the stomach turning.

• 14:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  So when I start picking up signals long before something is a crisis, it's because I am picking up data from inside me that we've been taught to override.

• 14:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  So remember how we just talked about, we come into the world inside out?

• 15:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  And then the world teaches us to go outside in. Well, how do you go outside in? You override these uncomfortable signals so that you can perform for whatever's happening in the world.

• 15:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  So what's gotten a lot of people to being successful is their ability to override that body map.

• 15:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Hmm, that's so true, right?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  And now what I'd say to people is, you've gotten where you needed to go, this far with those tools overriding. You needed to do it.

• 15:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  So don't be upset with yourself that you overrode it. Thank your survival mechanisms.

• 15:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  But here's what I'd say, in a world moving this fast, when we, today we're fine and tomorrow there's a pandemic, we have to pull on our own internal data when the external world doesn't have all the data yet. So the people who are going to be able to navigate change quicker and quicker. Now we have AI and how quickly that's moving. So the data you will always be able to draw on uniquely yours is your own physiology. And so I'd start people with the body map.

• 16:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Listen to your body.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Listen to your body, instead of thinking these signals are annoying or uncomfortable, breathe, slow down, this is where, feeling your feet on the ground, feeling gravity pulling you down, feeling your heart beating, and not taking that as an annoyance that's slowing you down, but rather as a signal that you're moving outside your comfort zone. What else do I need to notice and tune into? So it's a little bit of a flip.

• 16:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's a big flip for a lot of people. So once you have these, these questions answered, you know the why, how do you turn that into action? What is the next step then?

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. So when you feel this discomfort, it's the most normal thing and protective for our bodies to contract.

• 16:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  And protect us, okay? So the first thing you have to do is actually become aware that the signal is happening and then get curious, not furious.

• 17:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Curious, not furious.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Okay, some people think like, oh, that's annoying, not now, I gotta do it, okay? You get curious, not furious, and you take a slow, deep breath, which is going to expand your chest cavity and take your diaphragm and it'll contract. That triggers your vagus nerve, which slows your heart rate down, opens your creativity and your thinking. And now you aren't just thinking, do I stay, do I go? You have creative options, like, hey, I wonder what we can do now? You don't get up and storm out of a meeting. There's no options here. What you say is, hey, I'd really like to work with you, Darshan. I'm wondering if maybe we could get creative and think of other ways of value creation. So you access this part of yourself that you otherwise wouldn't,

• 17:50Speaker 01

  but you have to work with your physiology, not against it.

• 17:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, very true. It's really hard to sometimes do that in the moment, but I see the value of it, for sure.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Well, we need to practice a little bit when it's not that moment, right? You don't want to take something like this and go straight to your hardest challenge. What you want to do is start noticing, how about if we, we take it to an easier place? Your body speaks to you when you're in resonance and relaxation as well. Your body is in constant communication with you, okay? So I just met you outside. We talked on the phone, we talked on Zoom, we connected. But I noticed when I saw you, first of all, you are very tall. And I, of course, on Zoom, never noticed that. So I noticed myself a little surprised and I could feel a little tightening of my muscle, like, oh, I didn't know that. And then I could feel everything relaxed and you reached over, you gave me a hug,

• 18:46Speaker 01

  and I could feel myself move into resonance, like, oh, I feel a resonance with this man.

• 18:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Right? It's the first time I'm meeting you, but I feel like there's so much in our worlds that were parallel.

• 18:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  But the way it showed up in my body is I felt that initial tense, like, oh, surprise. And then everything just relaxed. So that's how my body map told me I was in resonance with you. So people can even start by noticing when they see their favorite person, when a name comes up on your cell phone that you're excited to text or talk to.

• 19:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  How you, your physiology will also tell you that.

• 19:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yes.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  That might be an easier way to start.

• 19:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, like noticing the good feelings too that happen. You know, it's so funny that I feel like we're so disconnected from our body's sensations, right?

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And what you're talking about is become more aware of those sensations that you feel and connect them almost to emotions that are coming up at the same time.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  We only learned in medicine to pay attention to that data when the heart attack was happening at the very end.

• 19:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  And all I'm doing is saying, long before you show up in our offices or in the ER, you can start picking up your own signals.

• 20:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  But we've actually, in a world that thinks faster is better and do more with less, right? And sometimes profit over people.

• 20:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  We have thought, ah, ignore that because I want to succeed. And now I think the definition of success is changing. It's, this is all about data that I'm speaking about. I'm literally saying, physical signals in your body are data that we've been taught to override, that I now know that my top performing leaders, my, the people who are going to do the best in the next phase of our world are going to be the ones who tune into their internal data. And it's not just physical signals in your body. It's your emotions. It's the thoughts going on repeat in your mind. It's when you stay in a company culture that drains you of energy.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  It's when you stay in a relationship that you know has long since expired.

• 21:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  It is when you don't know the higher purpose of why you get up every day and go to, of course, you know what it is for Next Health. I read it on the wall.

• 21:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I've read it and I've seen it in your podcast. Like you radiate because you are connected to that higher purpose. So there's all these different energies that you can use this one tool in to see where you resonate, and it gives you energy and where it depletes you of energy.

• 21:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  So we're going to start making that much more practical. Once people understand your GPS system is your body's physiology and your heart's emotions.

• 21:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that makes-

• 21:40Speaker 01

  That's what tells you.

• 21:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That makes a lot of sense, actually. So using your, you know, I think a lot of people now are using wearables and they're using biomarkers. These are all data points, but-

• 21:50Speaker 01

  They are.

• 21:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Actually, listening to your body and what it's telling you is another major data point for us to be looking at.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  And I think, you bring up such a good point because if somebody wakes up in the morning, I know before me you had some sleep experts-

• 22:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  -that you were talking to, okay? One of my pet peeves is when, when I ask someone if they slept well today, and they look at their data on their phone to tell me.

• 22:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I know.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  They want to know their, they're like, my sleep score was, here's what I'm going to advocate. That's awesome, but when you wake up in the morning, close your eyes and check in to see if you feel well rested. How good are you at knowing your body? Then check that with your sleep score. Because when we start tuning out of our own bodies and we're relying on machines outside of us to tell us we're moving farther and farther away from picking things up early.

• 22:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's so true. Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  So I'm not saying anti-tech. I love tech. And I'm saying you have the most sophisticated technology right here. Please use it.

• 22:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, don't forget those internal signals your body's trying to give you.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Because then you'll pick it up in real time. In a meeting, before you can even check your phone, you'll know if someone just took credit for what you've been working on.

• 23:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How is that?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  I, for me, it's that throat constriction and that stomach turning. I know the moment this is happening, I know what's going on. Neha, you're not speaking up. You, some, somebody just took credit and you're not going to say anything. And my body holds me a little bit back, like, you know what? In the past, when I spoke up, I lost a friendship. I, I lost an opportunity because someone didn't like me or whatever it is. Each of us have these different maps inside of us. You got to know yours because it's different than mine.

• 23:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, yeah. And so I think, like you, to your point, just do it more often. Just sit there and try to understand what your body is telling you.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 23:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I think the questions you pose in the book are also a really good way to get really deep into what could potentially be causing those signals, right?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if somebody's listening and they're like, I don't know what she's talking about, like, listen to my body. Really, what I'd say to that person is, congratulations, you're a master of the external world. And that probably means you're pretty darn successful. Okay? Now, so why don't we do this? For someone who's like, okay, what's the first step I could do? I don't feel any of this. Everyone's got an AirPod case or, you know, for your headset, or you can grab a smooth stone from outside on your next walk, okay? In your next meeting, hold on to it, okay?

• 24:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  And when you notice something change in the meeting, something surprised you, someone that you didn't expect was in the meeting.

• 24:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Pay attention, and if you can't notice what is happening here, just say to yourself, I can feel this in my hand. Okay? After about four or five times of that, you're going to say, oh, my gosh, my right shoulder is a little tight.

• 25:02Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Oh, wow, I didn't notice I was having tension across my head. So what happens is, we've been so trained to the outer world that what I'm going to do is I'm going to take something from that outside world and I'm going to bring it in. Because you'll be able to feel this.

• 25:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  The other way is, anyone sitting and listening right now, whether you're driving, walking, whatever it is, just notice where your clothes touch your body.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Is the belt feeling comfortable or a little tighter than usual? Does it feel relaxed, you know? Just noticing. You can do these really simple things to start noticing, but this is usually what we're pushing through.

• 25:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  So it's a little bit of a-

• 25:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Takes some practice, for sure. But these are all great tools.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wake up in the morning and ask yourself, do I feel well rested? Hold something in your hand like a stone.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  And guess before you check your biohacking.

• 25:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Guess, make it a game.

• 25:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Guess before you check your wearable.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  What are the other kind of tools you have in Talk RX?

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Tell us a little bit more about what, what tools you can give to people.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  So Talk RX was my first book that I wrote. And it's really about, I noticed that a lot of those patient answers were around avoiding conflict.

• 26:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 26:14Speaker 01

  That woman did not cut off her own son, communication with her own son.

• 26:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  It's unless she was in conflict that she didn't know how to express. So somewhere along the line, people were in conflict with themselves or with each other.

• 26:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  So the first book was about, what are the five steps to lean into any conflict confidently, clearly, compassionately, and concisely?

• 26:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  And that's what Talk RX really is. And, and I start to show that it's, the first one is picking up the signals. So that there's data, you received an email, you heard someone say something, someone ghosted you. Like, what's the data that's happening? That's externally. You and I have just spoken about-

• 26:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Internally.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  -the internal physiology data. Then we move to, okay, if you think of me as a tall skyscraper, the top floor and the surrounding of the building is us picking up data. Okay, inside and outside. Get in the elevator, go down, open up on the mental floor. Take all that data. And the next thing we do, step two, is we make sense of that data. Right? What do, we make meaning of it. Most people have a penthouse here.

• 27:24Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  They spend so much time here. Okay, get in the elevator. Now you've made meaning of it and you're believing a story about it. Let's say someone ghosted me and I believed the story. I knew they were never going to be interested in what I have to offer. Okay? So I make that story up, I believe it, get in the elevator. Now I open on the heart floor. Most people have a fire burning here and there's no floorboards that says danger, do not enter. The heat is too much. So what they do is they build a fire escape back up to think their way out of what they feel. Or they build a fire escape down to the floor, which is going to be doing. And they do, do, do, do, do, keep themselves really busy doing so they don't have to feel. Okay? So fire escapes go two-way.

• 28:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Two ways. But this closes and they're so grateful. You go down, the fourth step is, you figure out your desire. What do you want in this conversation, this conflict, whatever's happening? But not just what do you want, why do you want it? So if, if my parents as immigrants wanted to have their own home in America, what I would then ask is, why?

• 28:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Why?

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Do you want that home? Like, what is getting that home going to give you? And if they said, a stable place for our family to grow and flourish, someone else might say, a place where other people who are suffering and don't have a chance could come here and be with us.

• 28:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  The first one would have been valuing the stability of our family.

• 28:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  The second one would be in service to others-

• 28:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  -having a new opportunity.

• 28:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  So do you see what I mean?

• 28:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  You can have a desire, but why you-

• 29:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Why do you have that?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  -have it is how you know what someone values.

• 29:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 29:05Speaker 01

  And then all the way down to the foot is the fifth and final step, which is taking action and having that conversation. Makes sense?

• 29:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It makes total sense.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  The, let's say I had to have a conversation with you ghosting me, which of course has never happened because this is our first meeting.

• 29:21Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I would never ghost you.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  You would never ghost me, thank you. So let's say I had to have that conversation with you. Once I go through these five steps, it would sound like this. Hey, Darshan, I know we had talked about meeting last Tuesday. I'd love to have a conversation about that. Is now a good time?

• 29:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sure.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for being open to that. I noticed on my calendar, it said 6 o'clock, Tuesday at Sweet Greens. We were going to meet. By 6:30, I had texted you, I hadn't received anything back, and so I left. If I hadn't gotten a call from your team, I wouldn't have been here. But I don't know, I have this like pit in my stomach a little bit. And I'm feeling a little bit like disappointed, really? And what I want to know is, what happened? Do you see how you understand what's happening for me?

• 30:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  And now you might say something like, oh, my gosh, it wasn't on my calendar, or whatever it is for you. But if I can go to curiosity and I can tell you the data I had, I can tell you the story I made up about it. I thought maybe you weren't interested or whatever it is. I felt disappointed.

• 30:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  What I want to know is, what happened?

• 30:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Do you see what I mean?

• 30:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 30:31Speaker 01

  So now you take this thing that separates families that in our politics has divided a nation and a world. The fear around AI. All these things keep us up at night. And this, in the end, I think is contributing to a lot of pain in our world. And ultimately, heart attacks, strokes, pneumonias, all of these.

• 30:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it leads to disease, but also, like you said, leads to a lot of conflict in the world. It's a really great structure of getting your head in the right place and your heart in the right place before having the conversation. I think people rush into conversations that become very unproductive without actually thinking it through in a structured manner like you've just presented.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I have to tell you, as a surgeon, I have always admired how meticulous, organized, and structured surgery is. Like, you would never walk into that conversation with someone else's body.

• 31:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Without that preparation.

• 31:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Without preparation, exactly.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And so that's the inner data that people need to get clear on to navigate our outer world.

• 31:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, wow. It's so powerful to think of it this way. Just take a beat and having this type of structure before a conversation can make a world of difference. So you understand where you're coming from.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  You bet.

• 31:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. So I want to talk more about this for sure. So I'm gonna have to have you back for sure. But I think I would love to have my audience introduced to your next book, Powered by Me, which is about burnout. Because this is a topic I'm really passionate about. I almost quit my job completely 12 years ago as a surgeon because I was very, very burnt out. And so I happened to find a new passion in life that turned me back into a passionate individual. It kind of saved me, you know? But burnout was a real thing. And I think a lot of physicians feel this. Almost every physician I talk to is in some stage of burnout. It's just pretty much like a 99% of physicians after about 10 years of practice are there.

• 32:27Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I look at it as not just it will change your career and their path to financial freedom, but also people get really, really sick, physically sick, right? When they're burnt out. So I would love to hear your thoughts around burnout and why you wrote this book. Because I'm sure it has a lot to do with your own personal story as well.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  It does. I mean, there's, and I remember the day I walked in. I was a hospitalist with 18 patients and it was the day to hand things over. But somebody called out sick. You know how in the hospital, we're often understaffed?

• 32:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, often, like almost all the time.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  I kind of wonder if it's actually a strategy to making budgets sometimes. But anyway, well, I got handed the Alpha Pagers. So now I'm taking all incoming requests for transfers. I walked up at 11:00 AM. I walked to the nurse. It had been about five hours I'd been in. I was only on my second patient out of 18. And I walked up to her and I said, hey, Nina, can you get me 40-mill equivalents of IV potassium for the gentleman in 636? And she looked at me and she was like, doctor's saying one? Are you okay? And that was my first indication that I might not be.

• 33:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  And I said, yeah, why? And she said, because that is the fourth time in under five minutes? You've asked me that same question and I've answered you every time.

• 33:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  My introduction to burnout was a nurse who was willing to go against power and hierarchy.

• 33:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  And asked me if I was okay. And I am so grateful because I could have done something so much worse.

• 33:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  I could have prescribed the wrong medication or the wrong dose or whatever it was. That day, I went and called a psychiatric colleague. And I said, I don't know what's going on here, but I think I need to see you. He said, great, I'll see you at 5 o'clock today. Why don't you swing by? I'll squeeze you in. And I'm looking at my pale face in the mirror in the bathroom. And I said, how about now? We don't do that to each other.

• 34:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  We don't ever, but I knew something was wrong and I didn't understand it. What happened next was probably what scared me about our medical system the most. Him and I did weekly sessions. He wrote me for a prescription of Prozac. I'm driving home that day. And I remember looking at the Prozac sitting. So I went from running the hospital.

• 34:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  To being a patient in line, to being on medical leave. And I'm looking at that Prozac. And all I could think to myself is, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I'm pretty sure it's not a Prozac deficiency.

• 34:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, exactly.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  That was an eye-opening moment. So I get home, and this is the hard part about treating doctors. I put the meds up in the drawer. And I said to myself, all the side effects started going by me from pharmacology. And I thought, how about if I have these meetings with him? And I see how I feel.

• 35:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  And if I don't get better, then I'll, I'll try this. Okay, five weeks go by. I'm weekly, I'm going in, I'm seeing him every week. And it's the first time I sleep through the night and that throat constriction relaxes. Five weeks.

• 35:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Five weeks of therapy.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  I come in and he says to me, oh, my God, Neha, you look so much better.

• 35:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  And I said, I just cannot wait to tell you. I think I'm, I'm starting to improve.

• 35:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  He said, right on time, that Prozac is kicking in.

• 35:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Of course he said that.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  And that was the moment I realized, oh, my God, I was self-managing. I didn't tell him.

• 35:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  So I said, oh, no, no, no. I put the meds in the drawer. And I was going to try them if this didn't work. And he said, oh, my gosh, Neha, I can't bill for you if you're not on medication. I'm a psychiatrist. We don't get paid for it. So would you like to start medication? Or would you like to see another provider?

• 36:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's so broken.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  That was the moment. You want to know when I went down this path? It was when I realized that I could get better through mental and emotional healing and reconnecting to my purpose and communication and all of these things. And I was sitting there and I thought, wait, but I'm a partner in this organization. You're not going to let me see a colleague? What is happening for everybody else?

• 36:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  So that was when I committed to saying, I believe that people do need to get time off and sometimes need medications for anxiety or depression to bridge them. But I also believe in parallel that we have to figure out where you're having a net gain or a net drain of energy in a physical, mental, emotional, social, or spiritual area. So that when you go back in two months later, you're not going back in the ring for round two, not knowing how you got there.

• 37:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  And that's what I committed myself to, which is the 20-year journey of working with people. So they had the medical help. And in parallel, I helped them figure out, where are you having a net gain or a net drain? So for you with surgery.

• 37:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  If you think back to that time, okay? On a physical energy level, I would be asking you questions like, how well are you with your circadian rhythm? Do you go to sleep at the same time? Do you wake up rested, feeling fully rested? Would the answer to that be yes or no?

• 37:37Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Not at all, right? You're on call schedule. I'd be asking you things like, how regularly during the day do you nourish yourself with whole foods? Or are you grabbing something from the vending machine or the cafeteria? Or is it soda or whatever?

• 37:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Right? Then I'd be asking things like, you know, movement. How many times a week do you move your body joyfully?

• 37:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  It's like running from one crisis to the next.

• 38:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly, right.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  And the last one on a physical energy level would be like, is your energy even throughout the day? Are you having those three o'clock energy dips?

• 38:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  That's just physical energy. But you go through an assessment, mental, emotional, social, spiritual. And we'd see like, how strong are your social networks? Name the top three to five people or groups of people that you're interacting with. Does their name cause your body map to constrict? Feel tight and heavy? Or feel open, light, and relaxed, like when I met you?

• 38:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  There's going to be clues that tell you where you're leaking energy and where you're gaining energy. So each person, just like you have a different body map, each person has a burnout map. Where they're leaking energy or gaining energy. And they use that until they are mostly net drains and then they burn out.

• 38:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  Does that make?

• 38:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, I think what you're saying is there's never just one thing that's draining their energy. It's usually a combination of physical, emotional, social, mental.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  And spiritual.

• 39:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Factors, and spiritual factors that come together to have this net drain, right?

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And we're usually compensating. A few of them can hold us for a while. Like, we like the people we work with. So they help us get through the day, even though we're having net drains in other places. But at one point or another, after your physiology is adjusted and you've done all these things to try to make it work. Let me just make sure people know, burnout is a slope. It's not a trapdoor. You're not fine on Monday and burned out on Friday. You have too sophisticated of a system.

• 39:36Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  That adjusts and moves. And by the way, you walk in, you know how you know you're moving down the burnout slope?

• 39:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  How?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  You walk in one day. You normally go to your barista in the morning. And one day you say, make it a double. You're using more and more coping mechanisms to override your physiology to get the same effect.

• 39:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Caffeine.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Or if you're a runner, you used to be able to run two miles on the beach to get stress of the day off. And now you find yourself running three and four to get the same effect. So that's a big clue that I look for.

• 40:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  But people are on a spectrum from burned out to fully charged. Everybody is.

• 40:13Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Okay.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And that can change. And so if you're someone who's not burned out now, it's so important for you to understand burnout so that you can see it and help people, those you love and lead, pick it up earlier. So it can be for the people who are burned out, or it can be someone who has people they love and lead.

• 40:31Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's so true. And I think I really like this spectrum of that you talk about from net gain to net drain. Because if you work on all the draining influences in your life and get rid of them, but also double down on where it gains you energy.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  As well.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  You bet.

• 40:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You can gain energy day throughout day to day, right?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 40:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And, and actually feel more passion and more life in your life.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Oh, you can do it immediately. And I say to people, they say, where do I start? You know, which one do I start? This book doesn't have to go in order. Literally, start where you feel inspired. Something it sounds like, oh yeah, you know, I really am ready to deal with that emotional stuff. Yeah. You know, sleep is where I'd like to go, right? Wherever it is, pay attention to what lights you up. That's that resonance piece that we were speaking about. If you're not tuned in, you don't know what lights you off.

• 41:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Right?

• 41:23Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. You need that data feedback.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  To know what's really working, that's giving you the gain in energy.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  And a big secret that I tell the corporations that I work with, like, we, we do this for one company at a time. But essentially, I say, your clue to finding your highest purpose in this world is by being able to know and look across your life at your bliss and your heartbreak. People are like, no, no, no, I don't want to do my heartbreak.

• 41:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know what? The things that light you up and the things that break your heart are what matter to you.

• 41:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  That's how they will take you to your higher purpose. And I'd say to you that becoming a surgeon and burning out as a surgeon, all of it is what led you here.

• 42:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? Absolutely. I believe that. You know, you mentioned social influences in burnout, right? And so I think this is becoming a major factor now in people's burnout because just the way we interact with others and because of social media and loneliness and all these things becoming a factor.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:26Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It just seems like that's a major contributor. Would you agree with that?

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Huge. And people blame it on hybrid work. They blame it on technology, like they blame it on the pandemic. That's not true because I would tell you, even in our conversation on Zoom.

• 42:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  I felt like the two of us were willing to show up authentically.

• 42:47Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  We were willing to engage. It is the quality of our exchange that determines our connection. Not the medium in which we show up. So one of the big things in companies now, if people don't start showing up in a hybrid space where they feel connected, we're gonna have to make sure we're in person more, right? So the way I think of this, this is gonna be my next book, so I'll give people a preview here, but the five levels of exchange. Okay. Level one, the lowest one is broken. Broken means maybe you were friends with someone in high school and you don't, your lives have gone in different directions. Maybe you've lost someone, they're no longer on this earth. Broken exchange. Maybe you had a disagreement and you don't want to talk to each other. Broken.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Second level, dysfunctional. So the first one was broken, it's not with you. No one, no longer with you.

• 43:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Got it.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  The second level is dysfunctional. Someone's with you, but boy, they are not for you. Passive aggressiveness, manipulation, gaslighting, ghosting, whatever it is, there's, there's something that's going on here where it's dysfunctional. Third level, transactional. Someone's with you, but they're for themselves. That's a different quality of exchange.

• 43:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  That means if I'm not getting something that I want out of this, I'm out of here. Fourth level, relational. Someone's with you and they're for you. So let's say you and I are in a relational exchange, something good can happen to you. You receive an award, you get noticed about something, and it may have nothing to do with me, but I'm cheering you on. Relational. Okay. So I'm with you and I'm for you. Right? And then there's sacred exchange. And this is my personal belief of what the world needs now to heal. Sacred exchange is I'm with me, I'm present for me, I'm present with you. And our exchange shapes us, changes us, and heals us.

• 44:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  And it's almost alchemy. It's like we are not the same because we have connected and shared at a level that matters to both of us. And I call that sacred exchange. So the healing effect that comes from the different levels at which we connect determines the quality of our connection. And I would ask the people listening, both at work and at home, what types of exchanges, right? Broken, dysfunctional, transactional, relational, or sacred? What types of exchanges predominantly are you experiencing in your world?

• 45:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, yeah, that's a great question to ask. You need to think about your day and everyone you've spoken to that day. If you could almost put a score next to each one of those exchanges.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And just tally them up and see kind of how much quality exchange you have throughout the day.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:35Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And sacred exchanges are hard to come by, so you know.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Actually, they're not.

• 45:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really?

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Can I tell you? I will tell you that you can do it with a stranger. And you can do it in your next encounter, whether it's with your barista, whether it's with someone at work. All it requires is you being fully present and when I'm paying attention to you. So Darshan, I will tell you in this exchange right now with us, if I'm listening, not just for what you're saying, but I'm present with you. I can pick up not just the words that you're saying, but with your body language, your choice of what you're saying, et cetera. What I would say to you is, to have a sacred exchange with you, is I'd say something like this. Darshan, thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  I hear how much you value authenticity, vulnerability, and excellence.

• 46:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  All a sacred exchange is, is me paying attention to you. Do you value those things?

• 46:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Of course. Yeah, absolutely.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  And so then you would pay attention to how your body map knows.

• 46:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Because if you didn't value those things, you'd be paying attention to how your body map resisted that.

• 46:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  You see what I mean?

• 46:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes, yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  But when I'm present with you, we can have a sacred exchange. It doesn't matter who you are. You could be a stranger next to me on the plane.

• 46:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yep.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  It could be the stewardess who served me my water.

• 46:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  And I just say, thank you so much for your service. I see how much your job matters to you.

• 47:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 47:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love this podcast because I feel like every time I'm doing this, it's like a sacred exchange, you know?

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 47:12Dr. Darshan Shah?

  It's the one time that I really get to speak to someone with no distractions. And we're getting to really learn from each other and understand from each other. And so I crave doing these podcast days sometimes because I really get my fill of those sacred exchanges. And I think about, you know, everyday people in their lives. If you could have more of those moments where you're not distracted and you put your phone away and you really focus on what someone's telling you, try to learn from them, it's a game changer. It really builds up the amount of energy that you have.

• 47:42Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 47:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Okay, then I'm gonna say a few more things that I just heard.

• 47:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Please.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  I am so impressed with how you are a lifelong learner, how much you value authentic connection, and how you're using your podcast, not only for your personal purpose, but to amplify the opportunity for true and meaningful, like, exchanges.

• 48:06Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  So thank you.

• 48:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, thank you. No, I love it. And I really appreciate you coming on here and having this discussion with me. It's a little bit different than our typical health discussions, but I feel it's so important to focus on these aspects of our mental, emotional, social health, because it is a major factor in our health that is very much ignored by traditional medicine. You know, there's a lot of talk around health and this needs to be injected into the conversation because it is so basic and fundamental to how our physiology is. There's this massive connection between our mental health and our physical health, right?

• 48:44Speaker 01

  You know, something amazing that I read in the research was that your leader has more of an influence on your health.

• 48:50Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Than your doctor.

• 48:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  So we can keep it as the old way that this is happening, but I would say your primary relationship and how supported or not supported you feel in that, and your social health and wellbeing. You are in interactions with those, your peers and your leader, so much more often than the twice a year that you would see someone like me or you.

• 49:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  And so I think we're gonna start realizing that the unraveling of our social health is having a much bigger effect on our emotional and physical health than we ever realized.

• 49:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I truly believe that for sure. And I think the sooner we realize that, the better it is for everybody.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the sooner we get the tools to be able to communicate in a level, in a way that feels safe, so our body doesn't feel threatened.

• 49:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And really what I'd say is the sooner we lead from the inside out, we get more authentic exchanges.

• 49:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yes.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  But we gotta know ourselves in order to do that. We can't be reading society and doing what society wants.

• 49:53Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Absolutely. Wow, you've given us so many tools today, so many things to think about. And I'm sure the books are packed with even more tools and more incredible information. And I just can't wait to read them both. Talk RX, Empowered by Me.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And the next one, when it comes out, I can't wait.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, something around sacred exchange. I don't, I don't know what it'll be, but it's coming.

• 50:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  By the way, the sacred exchange piece of this is such a beautiful concept that I hope everyone comes away from this podcast and really internalizes that and tries to make more of that happen on a day to day basis.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  And you can do it in your next exchange.

• 50:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, this is fantastic. How can people learn more from you? Where can they find you? Tell us, give us a little bit of your.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so intuitiveintelligenceinc.com, so I N C dot com. Or an easy way to kind of get there is nehassangwon.com, that'll also go there. And I'm a CEO, health and performance coach, and we then go into companies and we do this work one company at a time. So we're taking, you know, in the old days, they thought wellness and, you know, wellbeing was like fluff. Like you bring in, you know, massage chairs on Friday and say like, oh yeah, I did that. No, this is about how you literally help everybody create their own maps of their body map, how they understand how to communicate in conflict, all of that. So we, and I do, I actually also do relationship workshops as well.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  So I really believe in any way that we can start aligning our energy, the stronger our physical health and wellbeing will be.

• 51:28Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I believe that right along with you. So thank you so much for speaking to my audience. I can't wait to have you back for your next book and dive in further. Thank you.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  You bet.

• 51:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps us support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best, and it's always important to seek their guidance.