Daisy May and Charlie Cooper: Being working class made us angry! Combat imposter syndrome

Do you have a chip on your shoulder? Actors Daisy May and Charlie Cooper say growing up working class made them angry, but that feeling like outsiders in their industry has been a powerful motivator. In this chat with Fearne, Daisy May and Charlie explain how they’ve dealt with feeling threatened by authority and power. They also reveal why This Country almost didn’t happen because a contract meant they might have to pay £350,000 to buy back their own characters... They chat about the importance of trusting your gut when no one else believes in you. Is your sibling the funniest person you’ll ever meet? Quite possibly. Daisy May and Charlie explore their shared interest in the paranormal, and their wildly different parenting styles. Plus, how has Daisy May found inner peace now? Rules including no phone, no alcohol, and no people pleasing have definitely helped... You can watch Daisy May and Charlie on their new BBC show NightWatch now. If you liked this episode of Happy Place, you might also like: Joanna Page https://pod.fo/e/32ed95 Rahul Jandial https://pod.fo/e/236921 Kirsty Gallagher https://pod.fo/e/185156 Child on the line is a three-part documentary podcast series celebrating the Volunteer Counsellors of Childline, and the brave children & young people who contact the helpline service. Listen here: https://www.childonthelinepodcast.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Natalie Dormer and I'm proud to be an ambassador for Childline. This year, Childline turns 40. To mark it, I've made Child on the Line, a three-part documentary podcast. We hear why children needed a helpline in 1986, how it was built against the odds and the challenges children face today, from abuse and mental health to social media and AI. Search Child on the Line and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:28Fearne Cotton?

  Hello and welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that encourages you to trust your gut. Today, I'm chatting to Daisy May and Charlie Cooper.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Growing up with no money and being working class made us actually really fucking angry. I didn't realise that I still had a fucking chip on my shoulder about it. This year for me has been one of the hardest years of my life. Talking about like those patterns and how they keep coming back until you face them. And I feel like for the first time, I've really confronted it head on and had to take a look at parts of myself that I probably wanted to run from.

• 1:11Fearne Cotton?

  Do you know what? I've wanted these two on the podcast forever. I am such a fan of this country and just them as a double act, as brother and sister. And it's so funny because Daisy and I, I don't know how we'd even swap numbers, but we'd been chatting for like years on text. I'm talking like years and years. I remember texting all through lockdown and we'd FaceTime each other here and there. We tried to meet up and then both of us ended up not having childcare or something. So this was the first time we'd actually met, been in the same room together. And it was just brilliant. Just like from the minute they walked in the room, it was just laughing out loud, loads of swearing, which you're going to hear in just a moment.

• 1:55Fearne Cotton?

  Charlie had a bit of a cold, so he was feeling a bit poorly, but you wouldn't know it from listening to this episode at all. The thing I love about Charlie and Daisy is just their honesty. I think when we get so much polished content thrown our way, if it's on social media or... YouTube or whatever, people just like showing their best selves and their perfect lives. And Charlie and Daisy, not only in this episode, have like full-blown arguments, but they're just, they just say it as it is. There's no beating around the bush and I am here for it. So, they're obviously a powerhouse duo. They play cousins in the completely hilarious This Country. If you've not seen it, oh my god, it's just the best show. Most recently,

• 2:40Fearne Cotton?

  they've been sleeping in haunted houses for their new BBC show, Night Watch, which you can watch right now. We talk about a lot in this chat. It's kind of funny and brilliant, but also they're really deep and we talk about some serious stuff too. So, we talk about, obviously, paranormal activity, because that's what their new show is all about. We talk about having a fear of authority, which I think so many of us adults have. We constantly feel like we're about to be told off, so we chat about that. Also, we talk about working class rural life, sibling relationships, getting sober, that is a really big moment of this chat, and importantly, trusting your gut and intuition. If they hadn't, there

• 3:22Fearne Cotton?

  would not have been this country. And by the way, I hope you stick around to the end, because Daisy May brought out her tarot cards.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Hello, I'm Joanna Fletcher.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  And I'm Marco Bortella.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  And this is Boots Off.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  We are friends who've spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts, and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 3:56Speaker 04

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 4:01Speaker 04

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Listen every Thursday. Just search for Boots Off.

• 4:11Fearne Cotton?

  Right, here we go. This is the show.

• 4:34Fearne Cotton?

  Hello Daisy, May and Charlie.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  Hi.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  May.

• 4:37Fearne Cotton?

  May.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  I cannot believe I'm seeing you in real life.

• 4:41Fearne Cotton?

  I know. I feel like I know you much better than I do. Terrifying.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Oh, I just remember, I don't remember if you remember this, but when you were on Dig It, I wrote in and you-

• 4:52Fearne Cotton?

  I don't remember this because it's 30 years ago.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  This is a random kid. I wrote in and I did a picture of me and you and you showed it on Dig It.

• 5:00Fearne Cotton?

  No, I did not.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  And I have it on a VHS somewhere.

• 5:02Fearne Cotton?

  I know. We need to get that transferred digitally. I need to see that.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 5:07Fearne Cotton?

  I thought you were going to say something more recent.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  No, that was, yeah, it was back in the day.

• 5:11Fearne Cotton?

  Because we, sorry to leave you out for a minute, Charlie.

• 5:13Speaker 05

  No, go for it.

• 5:14Fearne Cotton?

  You will be massively included in this chat, but we've been texting for ages. But you've not got a phone now, have you?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  No, I haven't yet.

• 5:21Fearne Cotton?

  But we were texting. I remember you once FaceTiming with your mum and I was like in my kitchen and I was like, oh hey.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I loved it. Oh gosh.

• 5:29Fearne Cotton?

  So fun.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  It's good to be here with you.

• 5:31Fearne Cotton?

  We need to have a lunch and like-

• 5:33Speaker 02

  We need to have a sleepover.

• 5:34Fearne Cotton?

  Or a sleepover and chat about all the things.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  That would be fucking great.

• 5:38Fearne Cotton?

  Talking about sleepovers, oh my god, Night Watch, episode one, you're sleeping in a prison, trying to experience some paranormal activity. You surprisingly slept really well Daisy. You act like a light.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Because I took sleeping tablets.

• 5:53Speaker 05

  Oh my god, like, the whole point of the show was genuinely to see if we can find any sort of paranormal activity. And then she just-

• 6:01Fearne Cotton?

  Just to sleep.

• 6:02Speaker 05

  Conked out after 10 minutes and then I'm left with my thoughts because the whole, because we sort of filmed during the day at whatever location we're at and then come 10pm, all the crew leave. So it's just me and Daisy in the building with mobile phones to sort of film on. And yeah, you just conked out and left me to sort of like-

• 6:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 6:21Speaker 05

  I didn't sleep a wink that night.

• 6:23Fearne Cotton?

  Of course not. You're in a haunted prison. I'd shit myself.

• 6:25Speaker 05

  Horrible.

• 6:26Fearne Cotton?

  Horrible.

• 6:27Speaker 05

  So like, and because it's like been derelict for like 15 years, they've still got like bunk beds and graffiti and-

• 6:32Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, that wasn't, that wasn't nice, was it?

• 6:35Fearne Cotton?

  Did you hear or see or get a feeling of anything during those hours whilst Daisy was asleep?

• 6:41Speaker 05

  Just your sort of windy ass and snoring. I don't, yeah, I mean, but again, it's like, because you're talking about ghosts throughout the whole day. So you work yourself up and it did, it surprised me how scared I got across the series. But it's just, you're in a prison. I mean, it's like that massive atrium and completely silent. So you're just waiting for something.

• 7:03Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 7:03Speaker 05

  But whether there is actually anything there, I don't know.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  We did have a psychic that came with us on that first episode. And she walked through some of the prison and she was saying, oh, here, I see a Victorian man, you know, I can see Victorian prisoners here. And it was built in the seventies, nineteen seventies.

• 7:22Speaker 05

  That part of it.

• 7:25Fearne Cotton?

  That, that's a phenomenon.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Right, yeah, yeah, I got you. But I, do you know what, weirdly, I think, yeah, it was terrifying only because if it's like, if anything's gonna be bad, it's gonna hang out in a prison, do you know what I mean? Of course. And, and that was, and I think because it was so silent, hearing any sort of sound, which obviously I didn't because I was.

• 7:48Speaker 05

  Absolutely.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  She was asleep.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  You only, well, you stayed, you, you, yeah, you stayed awake enough to do some self tanning in the toilet.

• 7:57Fearne Cotton?

  Very important when in prison, very important.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 8:00Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I mean, you've both got a great fascination with this topic. Daisy, you've written a book about it. Charlie, you've made documentaries about folklore, slightly different, but you're certainly very open minded to what could be out there. I know from even like the first chapter of your book, Hexy Witch, this was introduced to you at quite a young age. But here comes your coffee, babe, it's not a ghost.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:22Fearne Cotton?

  In that book, you start by saying your mum used to say to you, your granny, was it Bertie?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:29Fearne Cotton?

  Granny Bertie's watching you from the other side. Like she's, she's not here anymore, but she's watching you. And, and that kind of put the willies up.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Well, that's fucked up, is it not?

• 8:39Speaker 05

  It is a bit.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  How the fuck says that to a child? I look back at the stuff that our parents said.

• 8:46Speaker 05

  But there was always like.

• 8:47Fearne Cotton?

  Eighties parenting was unbelievable.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Wild.

• 8:50Fearne Cotton?

  It was great.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Wild.

• 8:51Speaker 05

  There was always a Ouija board like lying around.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  What, in your house? She gave us one, she bought one from the works, I think, bizarrely, and gave it to us when we were like ten.

• 9:02Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Well, when I was ten.

• 9:04Fearne Cotton?

  Did you use it? Did you give it a go?

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I, I mean, it was just.

• 9:07Speaker 05

  I think, I remember you pushing it quite.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. But like, she just didn't, she wasn't bothered about anything. And we were also allowed to watch like Poltergeist, all that kind of stuff from a young age.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  Scream.

• 9:21Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  I used to get dragged to go see like psychic nights in like the back rooms of pubs.

• 9:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's very my mum. Yeah, yeah.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 9:30Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Loves it.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  All of that stuff.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  I think if you're grown up, if you've grown up with it, you're more, you're open minded, aren't you?

• 9:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, without a doubt.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:37Fearne Cotton?

  My mum would do all sorts of weird shit even now. Like she'll, if you, if you get a photo and there's an orb in it, she has zoomed in thirty times to try and find a face in that. She's like, oh my god, it's my dead dog, Will, in the, in the orb. It's the three dots. She absolutely loves it. I'm not mocking you, Lyn, if you're, she doesn't listen.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Oh, love you, Lyn.

• 9:57Fearne Cotton?

  It's fine, but she loves it. But I think, yeah, you're so right. If you've been brought up with that kind of conversation, very normalized, you are really open minded to stuff. And you've, you've seen ghost legs?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  I've seen ghost legs.

• 10:07Fearne Cotton?

  Right, tell us about the ghost legs.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  The bizarre thing about it, right, was I was living in a house that had never been lived, it was like a new build, never been lived in before. And it was about five o'clock, I was led on the bed with my son, who was, I think it was been about eighteen months at this point, just watching TV. And I heard this like running, what sounded like bare feet. It sounds insane. But we had, like, on our landing, we had like, sort of, those lights, uh, what are they called?

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Sort of sensor lights.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Sensor lights, which will go on if there's somebody there. So I just expected to see my daughter running in the room. And I can't, it was literally like a pair of child's legs with.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Like white PE shorts, you know, like those sort of shiny, shiny striped. And it literally just ran around the bed. It was over in like 10 seconds, not even that. Like where the torso was, was kind of like, it was just legs short and then it kind of like blended in with the rest of the room. That's the only way I can do it. And it was bizarrely, it should have been fucking terrifying, but it was like massively underwhelming. Like my brain was just like. Trying to catch up. Trying to like, it happened so fast. My brain was like trying to figure out what the fuck it was.

• 11:35Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  And I, I just, I, I saw it and I don't know what the fuck, why. Have you had spooky experiences?

• 11:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I've had a couple. I don't know if I've seen a ghost. I remember being in this really old pub that was a hotel that I was staying in for work. And at, I don't know, two in the morning, something got in bed with me to the point where I like, I felt a weight drop next to me and it woke me up. And then I was checking all the cupboards, like shit me up so bad. I didn't see anything.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:05Fearne Cotton?

  And then another time, this is just like a weird thing and I don't know what it even means, but I woke up one morning in my house. This was years and years ago, I was like in my early twenties. And there was a painting that was on the wall, you know, like fastened with a, with a nail, hanging up in the middle of the wall. And as I came down the stairs, it was, you know, two metres this way in the middle of the room on the floor. And I was like, how the hell has a painting gone from being hung neatly on the wall to jumping off onto the floor here? Anyway, I get up, my mum rings me and she was like, something really sad to tell you. Your grandad sadly died last night. And he was really into painting. So I instantly obviously made that connection and was like,

• 12:44Fearne Cotton?

  oh, maybe it's a little sign from my grandad. There's no other explanation as to how that painting could have gone from the wall to the floor. It's too weird.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  A thousand per cent. That's given me goosebumps, you're saying that.

• 12:55Fearne Cotton?

  So I think sometimes like we can think of ghosts as, oh my God, terrifying. But actually it can be quite comforting having an experience like that. When you feel like you've had a little sign from someone.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Oh my, definitely. And aren't we all invested? Like we all want to know whether there's something after this, right? Yeah. I just, the more things that have happened to me, I just, I don't, I mean, he's still kind of on the fence about it. But I, I can't deny it and it just is what, like, it is what it is.

• 13:25Speaker 05

  I mean, I've not, I've not had an experience, but, so I can't.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  Until that happens.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  I do feel like in the next decade, there will be some way of being able to really, like, scientists would be able to say, yes, this absolutely fucking.

• 13:40Fearne Cotton?

  What was that TV show? What was that, what was that TV show back in the day? It would have been very our era, growing up, watching Saturday.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Strange Bit True.

• 13:50Fearne Cotton?

  Strange Bit True.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Michael Aspel.

• 13:51Fearne Cotton?

  Michael Aspel, that used to shit me up. The Poltergeist one I can still remember. I can remember the images, the pictures, oh my god.

• 13:59Speaker 05

  So good.

• 14:00Fearne Cotton?

  It was so scary and it was on like 6pm or something.

• 14:03Speaker 05

  I know, yeah.

• 14:04Fearne Cotton?

  It was outrageous.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  Everyone our age watched it.

• 14:06Fearne Cotton?

  Everyone, yeah. It was.

• 14:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:08Fearne Cotton?

  Brilliant TV.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Oh, that Poltergeist episode. But I tell you what, like, this is, like, the more I've learnt about ghosts is, especially with, like, watching near-death experience stuff on, like, YouTube and it's like Poltergeist. Just because, like, you, you, you don't change after you die. Like, if you were an asshole in real life.

• 14:29Fearne Cotton?

  You're gonna be an asshole in the office.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  You're gonna be an asshole, like, you're gonna throw shit around. Do you get what I mean?

• 14:35Speaker 05

  That is true, that is very true.

• 14:36Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, why change?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:38Fearne Cotton?

  Just because you're dead.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Exactly that.

• 14:40Fearne Cotton?

  So good. And what, what got you into?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  I don't know what the point was that one.

• 14:45Fearne Cotton?

  It's fucking funny though.

• 14:48Fearne Cotton?

  Um, what got you into folklore? What, what sort of piqued that interest?

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Uh, I sort of, um, well, we grew up in Gloucestershire, so we sort of had a rural upbringing. And it was sort of one of those, I mean, it was all around sort of growing up, but I think, but a lot of it was just during lockdown and exploring what's on your sort of home turf a little bit and. And doing this country as well, it was like a sort of deep dive into what it was like growing up, you know, in rural England and. It's weird when you sort of try and explain it to other people and, you know, cheese rolling, Morris dancing and all that sort of stuff. Um, but I lo-, I mean, it's ama-, it's having a bit of reassertance now.

• 15:27Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 15:27Speaker 05

  It's such an amazing world to get lost into.

• 15:30Fearne Cotton?

  Mmm.

• 15:30Speaker 05

  Because so much comes under it, it's, you know.

• 15:32Fearne Cotton?

  Who's your favourite folklore character?

• 15:34Speaker 05

  Uh, I mean, the green man's a great one.

• 15:37Fearne Cotton?

  Mmm.

• 15:37Speaker 05

  It's such a fa-, like, because it's all a bit ambiguous and...

• 15:39Speaker 02

  The sweet corn guy.

• 15:41Speaker 05

  No.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  What did he do?

• 15:44Fearne Cotton?

  The sweet corn guy. He's just part of like advertising world.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  He works in advertising.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  It's like an old pagan symbol of like rebirth and renew- it's all a bit ambiguous about his origins, but if you go to like...

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Is it the, the, you know, when you can get like the things that are hung up on your, in your, on your garden wall and you get them at market?

• 16:08Speaker 05

  Sort of little like...

• 16:09Speaker 02

  The bloke with the leafy face.

• 16:10Speaker 05

  Bush heads, yeah.

• 16:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, that's him. I've got one of them in the garden.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 16:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah. No sweet corn, no. No, it's me singing. Sweet corn man. That's such a great folklore.

• 16:21Speaker 05

  He'd be turning in his bush.

• 16:24Fearne Cotton?

  He really would. I mean, this country, I still, it's my, one of my comforting things that I watch if I'm like at home or I'm tired or I'm poorly and I just need something that I know is going to be a guaranteed laugh. And I just, I've watched every episode about five times. It is just the best thing ever. But what I didn't realise, you know, in the run up to this chat today, is it nearly didn't happen. It was so close to not happening because you guys worked for so long on developing these characters, getting the scripts, getting the whole idea of the show ready. You had, you know, contracts in place, ready to go, and then ITV dropped it last minute before you were about to get the pilot kind of up and running. Going through that whole process of years and years of being so dedicated to it, knowing you had a really good idea,

• 17:08Fearne Cotton?

  what stopped you at that point from completely giving up and going, sod this, I, I can't be bothered to carry on anymore?

• 17:14Speaker 05

  Well, I think I was pretty close to that.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  You were fucking pretty close. I tell you what it is, and I've always, I think it was just so intuitive. It's like when you know that something, that you are meant to do something in life, I can't explain it, it's like in your bones.

• 17:31Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  And, and it's like, imagine if fucking J K Rowling had sort of got like the forty third, you know, person who, the publisher, who'd said, look, we're not interested, and you've gone, oh, fuck it, you know, the worst witch is out, why bother with this? But, but I, I, I can't explain it though, that for me anyway, there was such a knowing and I think... It's so weird, because when we got that, we got a phone call, I mean, we'd been working on it for like, what, five years or something?

• 17:59Speaker 05

  Something like that, yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  With this production company, with this guy who, I mean, honestly shouldn't have been anywhere fucking near comedy. And because we were so terrified of authority, like, we would just bend over backwards and, you know, write whatever this guy wanted. And it was getting further and further away from what the show was meant to be. And I, and I remember we did this pilot, it was, it was just, it wasn't, it wasn't us, it wasn't our humour, it was like, I can't explain it, it just was like the, the OC, wasn't it?

• 18:34Fearne Cotton?

  The OC!

• 18:35Speaker 05

  It was clear. Where there was stuff like, you know, like, the notes back were like, oh, the characters are too unlikable, you know, they can't really swear, because you want to be on their side.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Just mad, I mean.

• 18:46Speaker 05

  And stuff like the mum's, like, because Daisy always did Carrie's mum's voice, which was always amazing.

• 18:51Fearne Cotton?

  The best thing ever.

• 18:52Speaker 05

  Such a big part of the show.

• 18:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 05

  But it was like, oh yeah, maybe it's, she can't just be a disembodied voice, she has to be a character that we see. And so there's all those sort of things that made it original and made it unique that just got stripped back. And, and yeah, because it's our first project, we were sort of, um.

• 19:08Fearne Cotton?

  But also, when you don't work in telly, like, I remember when I first started, you'd just say, yes, I'll do it, anything. Because you're like, I can't, I don't want to get kicked out of telly land, like, it's, it feels so otherworldly. Of course, you're not going to have the guts to go, first job, yeah, actually, you're talking bollocks, mate, I know what this is. It's too, too terrifying.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  That's exactly it. And I, I've, you know, it makes me so angry, really, because I think they don't know what they're fucking doing either. They're just sort of, you know, bullshitting, really.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  The only good thing was that we were doing it together.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  We were doing it together.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  If it was our own or.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  We got the phone call from our agent, she'd made us sign this fucking awful contract, which basically, but we'd signed our life away and the characters, so we'd found out that we had been dropped from ITV and we'd been dropped from the production company. And if we wanted to do the show, we'd have to front up like 350 grand to be able to buy back our own characters. And I was just like, you, he went out and I thought he was gonna fucking kill himself. Like, that's how you laugh, but it was, it was the worst.

• 20:17Fearne Cotton?

  After five years of working on something and then having that amount of money demanded of him.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  When you're so, when you're so poor, when you're so fucking poor as well, I mean, it was just. But I just, you know, I thought this can't be, this fucking can't be it. I, I just knew, and talking about like in intuition and. And also I do totally believe in the law of attraction and I, I believe that. And destiny, and I believe that we were supposed to do that show and it was, but we were also supposed to go through that journey to get.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  To get, to, to get to.

• 20:55Fearne Cotton?

  It just shows like gut instinct can be so easily overlooked, but actually it's so valuable.

• 20:59Speaker 05

  Oh my god, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. Yeah, not listening to that. Every mistake we made was just going again and just thinking, oh, when we get to the next stage, we'll correct it then. Let's just get model through this, say yes to everything and then hopefully we'll have a chance to.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  It was all, it was horrendous. But it also makes you worry because I think about how many people there are out there.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Who have had fucking incredible ideas or so talented. And been put off by these fucking kind of insecure, like bullshitty, grandiose kind of. People full of bollocks really, because that's all it is. Like, I, I mean, it's not, they always made it feel like. TV was such a sacred thing and it was so fucking, you know, hard to get into and all these like celebrity parties were so special. And it's fucking not, it's just bollocks.

• 21:53Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, and it's so brutal. It's me, I don't do it. I, I actually don't think I could put myself in that environment at this point in time. Because it's so brutal and I think there is still this sort of strange hierarchy. And if you're like not in the gang, you're not in it and it's just, I, I cannot be dealing with it. No, it's terrifying.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  Hello, this is Susie Ruffel. And Maisie Adam. And together we host Big Kick Energy. Hey Mais, what is it? Only the best podcast ever. Yes! A comedy, entertainment podcast with a focus on all things women's football, all things hilarious, all things friendship. It's a laugh is what it is, Ruffel. Yeah, and a fair bit of gossiping, too. Oh, and a lovely bit of gossip. Chow down on the gossip. Num, num, num, num, num. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You just need to search Big Kick Energy. Grab a knife and fork and tuck in, baby.

• 22:48Fearne Cotton?

  Thank God you didn't give up. I mean, what you created was so brilliant. Not only just laugh-out-loud funny, it's so clever. And also an amazing portrayal of working-class rural life, which we hadn't really seen on TV or really heard about so much. You certainly hear more about working-class or inner-city life, but it was such an interesting portrayal and so brilliantly accurate. How do you feel about the whole class thing? Because it gets brought up in so many interviews of you guys. I'm from a working-class suburban background, so I know the feelings that you can have. I certainly went through periods of thinking, "I wish I wasn't working class. I wish I had more sophistication about me." Or I knew, this is more in teen childhood,

• 23:30Fearne Cotton?

  or I knew people that could help me out in certain ways. Now I'm so proud of being working class. I'm so proud. And I know all the benefits that I've gained from that sort of upbringing with my work ethic and how I want to do things. What are your feelings around it?

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Do you know, it's so funny that you should say this because I think that this, for me especially, this has been a massive thing. Because I think growing up with no money and being working class made us actually really fucking angry and made us a real us-and-them sort of thing. Like, fucking hell. You're so lucky because your parents... There's probably jealousy when I was at Radha because I think, fuck, it's so fucking easy for you. Because you don't have to, you know, your parents pay for you to stay in a flat while you're up here while my, I've got to fucking like send money home from my student loan like and that made me really angry towards people from affluent families and it's still

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I didn't realise that I still had a fucking chip on my shoulder about it, even in like if I meet somebody who's got a posh accent, I think I fucking, I don't like that person. And what's funny is I think life brings you the same pattern, you'll get into the same pattern with that person and and I keep finding that upper class person that keeps coming into my life that I feel really threatened by and feel like I've got no control and feel completely disempowered. And it's like that person will keep coming into my life until I learn the lesson from it and it's, it's been for me, that's been massive and I feel like I'm finally

• 25:13Speaker 02

  getting, I don't know, self-worth and thinking fucking hell, like it isn't us and them, like it isn't, I, I'm putting so much importance about this kind of divide and people have their own shit going on and

• 25:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, of course.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  But it's, it's fa- it's fascinating.

• 25:30Fearne Cotton?

  It is. I had this really interesting thing when I was about sixteen, I became friends with this group, really weirdly, this group of public school boys. I'd met one of them on a holiday and we all got really friendly and they had a very different life to me, you know, they all went to really posh boarding schools, they were all boarding and, you know, they're all still my friends now. And it was this real culture clash of them sort of meeting all of my mates and these two different worlds.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:56Fearne Cotton?

  But we found it equally fascinating, like both groups, sort of like sussing each other out and each other's school system and like the whole thing. It's been really fascinating and, you know, and growing up and, you know, I, I see them all obviously just as humans with their flaws and their problems, like the same as me. But actually, you know, you sort of then see, oh god, being sent to boarding school was bleak, they had a really terrible time and or I think all the sort of assumptions that I was making were totally blown out of the water. But I still get it, if I'm interviewed by a sort of public school, I'm imagining, journalist, I, I like panic, I'm freaking out, I don't know how to You know, expressing myself in the interview, I feel really uneducated.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yes, unworthy.

• 26:41Fearne Cotton?

  It makes me clam up. Yeah, I hate it. That's still my living.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  And judged. It's so wild. It's so wild that it's still, it's like, you know, like a dog that's been, you know, kicked with white trainers will always go for white trainers. It's funny how triggering it is. It's like, I've got, this is all my shadow shit that I've got. This has nothing to do with them. It's wild.

• 27:01Fearne Cotton?

  How do you think it's impacted both of you in your career now? Because you both, I mean, obviously you had instant success overnight almost, but you've both gone off to do really interesting projects. Do you think any of that initial entry into the world of TV and the pushback that you had has given you a level of imposter syndrome or feeling like you still don't belong in it?

• 27:24Speaker 05

  Oh, probably me, definitely.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I'm so fucking talented. I don't get anything.

• 27:32Speaker 05

  So arrogant. You say that so many times in one day, you know. Anyway. Yeah, I've got a huge imposter syndrome, yeah. Because it was just, I guess because, I mean, you always did drama at school growing up and you were always like performing and it was always your dream, wasn't it, basically? And then I just spent so long not quite knowing what I wanted to do and it was a lot later that I sort of was going to be in this country. I never had any idea that I was ever going to do acting. The idea of like standing up and talking in front of a room of people would have been mortifying. So it was like a happy accident. It was like right place, right time.

• 28:11Speaker 05

  But obviously you gave me a lot of confidence and it was years of like reading the script out and I just naturally sort of became that character.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  But again, this is so, I believed that that was your destiny.

• 28:24Speaker 05

  But yeah, but it still feels like, I don't know, I worked in Argos probably. Um, but yeah, I guess it's just, yeah, you still feel, oh god, am I, do I deserve to be here? Was that just a complete lucky accident that's like a one off or could it have been anyone? All that sort of stuff, but that's.

• 28:41Fearne Cotton?

  But I think if you're then doing, like you've been in movies, like, once you've got subsequent projects, that it's, it's not luck anymore. Do you know what I mean?

• 28:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, no.

• 28:48Fearne Cotton?

  You have that initial success, but you've got to be good, otherwise people won't hire you.

• 28:52Speaker 05

  Totally, and I tell you what's really helped since having kids as well. Suddenly like, everything else is totally insignificant, all that matters is them, not I'm providing for them. And then it just got to the point where I'm in a position where I can just pursue stuff I'm really interested in that I want to do.

• 29:08Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 05

  And that is, yeah, a really fortunate position, really.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  All right, Shannon. Swinging your dick about.

• 29:14Speaker 05

  Fucking, you've got a great way of bringing me down.

• 29:18Fearne Cotton?

  So what's sisters of all? Do you, do you think you would do this country again? I've said, you, you said previously that it'd be criminal to not revisit.

• 29:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, it's difficult, we get asked all the time. I find, I would be like, you sort of want to leave those characters the age as they were, it would feel weird.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  No, that is a total lie, because if we got paid enough to do it, and I'm serious, we would fucking do it.

• 29:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's true.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  But that is all it, it comes down to, honestly, it's just money.

• 29:46Fearne Cotton?

  Kerry and Kurt and have kids?

• 29:47Speaker 05

  Curtain would.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I've had my fucking lips done and I've like ten stone lighter, so I don't know how we'd fucking explain that.

• 29:55Fearne Cotton?

  There's a, there could be a complicating backstory.

• 29:57Speaker 05

  Kerry's had a girl, yeah.

• 29:58Fearne Cotton?

  Tadeworm.

• 30:00Speaker 05

  Tadeworm, oh my god.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  I don't know, but yeah, if we got paid enough, we definitely would, but they just don't, they don't have enough money to pay us.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  It would be a lot of pressure as well, because it's been, the longer you leave it.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 05

  And it's like, you get so many people saying, oh, you know, I mean, if we ever did bring it back, oh, it's not as good as it used to be, or it's lost its way. That would kill me.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 05

  And I think we did three series and we had like amazing time doing it, but it definitely felt by the end we had done this and it was time to move on.

• 30:30Fearne Cotton?

  And you can almost just get to leave it like perfectly as it is, knowing that you've just nailed it. It's a great feeling.

• 30:36Speaker 05

  Totally, but I mean, but that's why when doing this show, Night Watch was like. So nice because, I mean, there's so much of Karen Cullen in us anyway, but our relationship, it was like a chance to hang out without the pressure of writing a script.

• 30:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 05

  And all the other like bollocks that goes on. So it was just us fucking around, which is really nice.

• 30:57Fearne Cotton?

  And also, I mean, you say on the show that you don't actually, or you hadn't been hanging out that much in life, just generally.

• 31:03Speaker 05

  No, not really. It's the most I've seen you in five years.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  You never invite me around. I always have you over for Sunday lunch. You never invite me.

• 31:14Speaker 05

  I, but I don't expect.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Deal with your chimp son smashing my house up. Honestly, there's always something missing as well when they come over.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  Oh, nice.

• 31:25Fearne Cotton?

  Thieving.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  And I found a dipped teak candle smashed to slithering.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  With her clumsy claws.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Fucking hell. They are literally like two tornadoes. They're just.

• 31:37Speaker 05

  They are so scared of you.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Good. Yeah. I tell you fucking why. Cause he, they, they don't, you're, he does that parenting where it's like, like he'll be like.

• 31:46Fearne Cotton?

  Gentle parenting.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Where, where his son will be like stabbing a dog and they'll go, oh, don't do that, Dan.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Oh, darling, don't do it.

• 31:56Speaker 05

  You are such a bitch.

• 32:00Speaker 05

  A great bitch.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  You're a fucking goof trip.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  You're a wimp with your kids. You are getting bullied by your kids and your kids.

• 32:08Speaker 05

  They're forceful. We've got two boys and they're.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  They are under the age of, of three.

• 32:13Speaker 05

  We had two under two and they are together. They're, they're a force.

• 32:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, the boys. Boys are a nightmare.

• 32:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:18Fearne Cotton?

  Absolute nightmare. So, right. So we've worked out the reason why you're not hanging out.

• 32:23Fearne Cotton?

  But this show has rectified it somewhat. Like it's great to do a project together.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  When you're getting paid for it, it was a hangout.

• 32:31Speaker 05

  You said you enjoyed it just for, okay.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  I did. I did enjoy it. It was great. I was taking my night off. I really, no, honestly though, I missed you.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  I did miss you.

• 32:44Speaker 05

  For a bit and then.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  He is the funniest person I will ever meet in your life, but you've got siblings, right?

• 32:51Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I've got a brother, yeah, a younger brother.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  I bet nobody makes you laugh like.

• 32:55Fearne Cotton?

  My brother is so funny. He's the driest person. He doesn't know he's being, he's not trying to be funny, but everything he says is hilarious. Laugh out loud funny. He's the best.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  Is that because you're, the only thing that you guys share is your experience? Like you both share the same parents?

• 33:11Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  So you both have to like, have a fucking sense of humour about that.

• 33:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's true.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  It's just.

• 33:18Speaker 05

  It's a way of coping in this.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's what it is.

• 33:23Speaker 05

  It is.

• 33:23Fearne Cotton?

  My brother's also incredibly quiet. So he doesn't say much and then so when he does, it lands.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 33:30Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, it's great. It's really good. He's like the perfect person to have at a dinner table when you've got loads of mates there and he'll chip in with like the one liner of the night and he's not trying to be funny.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:41Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best thing.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  But he's just so secure in himself and just, oh, I love those people.

• 33:45Fearne Cotton?

  Cause I'm not good when people are trying at like, people tell jokes. I, it makes, I can't bear it. It makes me sort of cringe. I just like humour when people are naturally funny or they're not meaning to be funny, but it's just landed really well.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:59Fearne Cotton?

  I'm not good with like a bum bum.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  No, no, that's exhausting.

• 34:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Where somebody's doing a bit to you and it goes, oh my god. That kills me.

• 34:10Fearne Cotton?

  If someone says, do you wanna hear a joke? I think, oh, fuck.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  My kids do that to me.

• 34:16Fearne Cotton?

  But you can fake, you can like laugh, fake laugh with them.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  I bet. Can I do it in five minutes?

• 34:24Fearne Cotton?

  I've got time right now. That's so good.

• 34:26Speaker 05

  But it was a chat, but when we, cause it was actually when the crew would leave at like 10, I mean, we did have a period where we'd just talk and it was all about stuff that happened as kids, wasn't it?

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it was like fucking hell.

• 34:38Speaker 05

  Childhood stuff that you just.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Remembering stuff together and you go, fuck, our dad is a fucking narcissist. And he fucked us up. Loads. That's the only thing we came to the, we don't know whether ghosts exist, but we know our dad's a fucking narcissist.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  There's some of the stuff that I found out there.

• 34:56Speaker 05

  You take after him.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  I do, yeah, so do you. Yes, you do.

• 34:59Speaker 05

  No, I don't.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Yes, you fucking do.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  No, I fa- do I?

• 35:02Speaker 02

  You do, eh, yes.

• 35:03Speaker 05

  Okay, we'll chat about that.

• 35:05Fearne Cotton?

  That can be for series two, save it for series two.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  You're driving.

• 35:08Fearne Cotton?

  Save it for 10pm series two. But when do you otherwise get a chance with your sibling or whoever it is, mate, to sit down and like have a deep chat? You've got to be in a prison at 10pm with no distractions, do you know what I mean?

• 35:18Speaker 05

  Exactly, without the kids.

• 35:19Fearne Cotton?

  Without the kids.

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Oh, God, that is blissful to be away from.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Even in, go off to prison.

• 35:25Fearne Cotton?

  Go off to prison for a break from the kids.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Wonderful, incarcerate me now.

• 35:30Fearne Cotton?

  I mean, have you ever had a relationship prior to making this show where you would air things with each other, chat about issues that you've got, is that the sort of dynamic you've got?

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Before we wrote this country, it was, wasn't it? Because we, I think it was because we were such fucking losers and we were too ashamed to have, like, all of our peers were off doing, like, being successful and living in London and stuff. And we only had each other.

• 35:57Speaker 05

  Not by, yeah.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Who, who wouldn't judge the other one because we were both in the same.

• 36:02Speaker 05

  Both as much a loser as you are.

• 36:04Fearne Cotton?

  Well, you were at RADA, which I know was horrendous. Do you know what? We just had Joanna Page on who went to RADA and just was like traumatised by the whole thing.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  I'd love to talk.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  I saw her at Paddington today.

• 36:15Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 36:16Speaker 02

  Do you know what's really funny?

• 36:17Fearne Cotton?

  She was traumatised by it.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  I'd love to know if she had the same teacher I did, she's saying.

• 36:23Fearne Cotton?

  I don't know if she named them in her book, but she writes about it, you know, a hell of a lot.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Fucking horrendous. But again, this, this is what makes me so angry because it's like anybody that acts like they're the fucking gatekeeper of this, you know, the industry and it's like you have to behave a certain way and it's all, and it's just, it's just all bollocks and bravado and it's because they're so fucking insecure and I just wish I knew that then because I would have just gone, do you know what? I'm not, I, I don't, this isn't fucking right.

• 36:56Fearne Cotton?

  But you don't because you're young and you, and you're desperate to succeed. So you, you put up with it and you don't, we can all look back, I'm sure. Whether it's a teacher or an ex-partner or someone who's talked to us badly and you take it and you think, God, I wish I hadn't done that, but you're not there yet. Do you know what I mean? You don't have the resilience and the experience to have the confidence to say, I'm not going to put up with that, thanks very much.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:17Fearne Cotton?

  But you were there. So then you sort of moved in with Daisy at Rada, right?

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:21Fearne Cotton?

  And that's where you started writing.

• 37:23Speaker 05

  Basically, I'd gone to uni and dropped out after two years. It should have been two weeks, but I don't know why I tried to stick it out. It was terrible. And then.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Because you're trying to please dad, doing sports science.

• 37:34Speaker 05

  I was doing sports science. I hated it.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Nothing like, what? You're so creative and it's like the, like.

• 37:41Speaker 05

  I'm not academic at all.

• 37:42Fearne Cotton?

  You wanted to be a P teacher?

• 37:43Speaker 05

  No, I mean, I liked football, but this was straight after college, but all my mates were going to uni. So it's like, you better choose, you know. Got to go, oh, I'll just do sports science, I like football. But big mistake. But then you were, yeah, we had left. Because you'd gone to Rada at the same time I'd gone to uni. So you were in your last year.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  No, I was in my second year, I think.

• 38:04Speaker 05

  No, I dropped.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  You dropped out.

• 38:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. And then for your last year, I stayed. We just slept on your floor and she had these sort of student digs in sort of central London, Gower Street. So it was like amazing location.

• 38:15Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 05

  So it was perfect for me because it was a chance to clear my head, explore London, you know, and it like, and then you needed me because you were so homesick and hated being there, right?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I was fucking, yeah, just having him, it was like, it was exactly like that episode, you know, of this country where he's like the wife and I'm working at the dump. It was like that. I'd come in.

• 38:40Fearne Cotton?

  I love that episode.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  And you'd be like making sausage and mash on this little tube, like cooker thing.

• 38:45Speaker 05

  It was a bit, yeah, it was Dickensian.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  It was Dickensian.

• 38:48Speaker 05

  But it was amazing because it was really formative in our relationship and that's when we, yeah, started writing stuff, ideas that eventually became This Country. But it was the best. And we, I remember thinking at the time, we'll never forget this year, because it was like amazing. And yeah, we just wander around sort of.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  We're so bored. I remember.

• 39:05Speaker 05

  Ghost tours around.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Oh, well.

• 39:08Fearne Cotton?

  Like the Jack Ripper tour or something.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, stuff like that.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  But we didn't have money. We just sort of.

• 39:12Speaker 05

  Sort of hang around at the back.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  I remember we had twenty quid and we thought, right, let's go to Soho and get some weed. And I, I said, right, you just go up to somebody and see if they've got it. And he said, I just remember seeing my brother going off and then like twenty blokes suddenly go. And I thought, they're gonna fucking kill him. And you came back with some origami.

• 39:36Speaker 05

  It was origami. We smoked it anyway. We just had like a chest infection for about three months after.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  But you smelled lovely.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  We smelled great.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Seeing the back of your, your arse.

• 39:47Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sorry, that's the funniest thing.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Fucking head go, just being taken down.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  Panic, just.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  It's so great. Oh my gosh.

• 39:55Fearne Cotton?

  I'm sorry I made you do that.

• 39:57Speaker 05

  That, oh, it's alright.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  I'm so sorry about that.

• 39:59Fearne Cotton?

  Look, this is such a therapeutic podcast session. We're getting, we're airing it all. We're getting it out.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Hello, I'm Giovanna Fletcher.

• 40:11Speaker 04

  And I'm Marco Burchella.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  And this is Boots Off.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  We are friends who have spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you.

• 40:31Speaker 04

  This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  The adventures that lead to adversity.

• 40:36Speaker 04

  And how life can be one big adventure in itself.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Listen every Thursday. Just search for Boots Off.

• 40:46Fearne Cotton?

  Daisy, you've been incredibly honest over the last few years about your mental health and your ups and downs. I'm definitely trying to do the same and just like normalise it and talk about these things. Where are you at at the moment, would you say?

• 40:59Speaker 02

  It's been, this year for me has been like one of the hardest years of my life. But it's been one of the most amazing because talking about like those patterns and how they keep coming back until you. Face them and deal with them. And I feel like for the first time, I've really kind of confronted it head on and and had to take a look at parts of myself that I probably was like wanted to run from. And from that, I think I I'm I'm so

• 41:37Speaker 02

  uh at peace with myself than I've ever been. And I'm starting to realise that, like, happiness, to me anyway, at the minute, is like to figure out what is keeping me, like what is disrupting my peace uh uh and taking that away.

• 41:54Fearne Cotton?

  Hmm.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  And I think I'm a lot, I'm I I know myself so much more now, which I didn't.

• 42:01Fearne Cotton?

  It's the best thing about getting older.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  It is.

• 42:03Fearne Cotton?

  Think, oh, I know that doesn't work for me. I'm not gonna bother trying that again and again and.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  No, and not doing the people pleasing stuff.

• 42:12Fearne Cotton?

  It's a big one.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Friendships, like cutting that right down. I mean, I have one friend and that's all I can fucking cope with.

• 42:18Speaker 05

  Is that me?

• 42:20Fearne Cotton?

  You're not even on the list once.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  I I don't see you.

• 42:24Speaker 05

  You don't you don't have a phone, so it's quite hard to get.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  Oh, it's that is fucking great.

• 42:29Fearne Cotton?

  So is that part of this? Because I was fascinated, because I I think you might have either emailed me or something and said, I don't have a phone anymore.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:35Fearne Cotton?

  I was intrigued. You're like Ed Sheeran. You're just like, I'm ditching the mobiles.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't need it. Honestly, I just thought, I just felt like, I just thought, I just can't. I don't want anybody to be able to.

• 42:47Fearne Cotton?

  Contact me.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  Including my brother.

• 42:50Fearne Cotton?

  It's mad.

• 42:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 42:51Fearne Cotton?

  How do you, how how are you getting in touch?

• 42:54Speaker 05

  Well, she just calls me from a boyfriend's phone.

• 42:56Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, right, okay.

• 42:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's just, it says Aunt on the phone rather than Daisy when. So I know she's calling. Um but no, I mean, it has been, yeah, I it that is a really bold move. And I think. I mean, I'm always on my phone. I hate it.

• 43:12Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, me too.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  But I would find it hard. I panic when it's not.

• 43:16Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  That I'm not reachable to someone.

• 43:18Fearne Cotton?

  I also like mindlessly looking at it sometimes just to like check out. And I know I'm doing it, but I'm like, I sort of need to just check out of reality for a bit. And I just go, uh, like half an hour. I hate it, but.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  And your head's like throbbing by the end of it. And it's just, yeah, I hate it.

• 43:34Fearne Cotton?

  But yeah, the people pleasing thing, I think getting rid of a phone is like the biggest goodbye to people pleasing. It is because we're constantly like, all of our actions are informed by, oh, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to piss that person off. Is this person not going to like me? And it rules so much of your decision making. And I think if you can free yourself from that, that is bliss. It's hard, but it's bliss.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  My, my drinking went through the roof as well. And I think that was being around the wrong people and not being myself, having to drink to be able to fucking cope.

• 44:07Fearne Cotton?

  Do you drink at all now?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  No, I haven't done for like nearly three years.

• 44:10Fearne Cotton?

  That's amazing.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  That's been life changing for me.

• 44:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  But yeah, I, I, it's so funny, isn't it? Like all these things like that you think matter so much and like worrying about like pissing people off. And it just, it fucking, it just doesn't matter at all.

• 44:29Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Like you're not on your deathbed thinking, oh, fucking hell, like so and so was upset in 2010.

• 44:36Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, no, exactly.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Message back on the WhatsApp group.

• 44:39Fearne Cotton?

  No.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  Who gives a fuck? And anybody that does get funny about you not texting them back is a fucking cunt anyway.

• 44:45Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, they're not worth it.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  Get a life.

• 44:46Fearne Cotton?

  Get a life. Yeah. Freedom.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  It's fucking great.

• 44:50Fearne Cotton?

  Two things before we wrap up. The first is my last question, but it's not the end. So my last question to both of you is, where is your happy place?

• 44:59Speaker 05

  I mean, I've just got into metal detecting.

• 45:01Fearne Cotton?

  Oh, my God. Wasn't expecting that.

• 45:03Speaker 05

  It is the best thing.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Right, but Mackenzie Crick called. He wants everything back.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  He wants his identity back. I'm sorry.

• 45:12Fearne Cotton?

  Are you going to like local beaches? What are you doing?

• 45:14Speaker 05

  No, you just, I mean, you've got to get permission.

• 45:16Fearne Cotton?

  Sure.

• 45:17Speaker 05

  From places, but there's a place I go near home and it's the best because.

• 45:21Fearne Cotton?

  What have you found?

• 45:22Speaker 05

  Lot like Roman stuff.

• 45:24Fearne Cotton?

  Really?

• 45:24Speaker 05

  Medieval stuff.

• 45:25Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 45:26Speaker 05

  It is the best thing because you're just, it's just you.

• 45:29Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 05

  And it's something that you're not thinking about anything else other than what you're doing.

• 45:33Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 05

  And it's like the best way of clearing your head of everything.

• 45:36Fearne Cotton?

  Wow.

• 45:37Speaker 05

  Um, I'm so grateful I found it. It is honestly, it is the best thing.

• 45:41Fearne Cotton?

  I love that for you.

• 45:42Speaker 05

  And you just don't know, it's like treasure hunting. So it's that classic, you know, massive dopamine hit when you find something.

• 45:48Fearne Cotton?

  Especially like what, like a Roman coin are we talking?

• 45:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, Roman coin, Roman brooches. And then it's like, it's a really grounding thing because it's like, you, you find your place in history a little bit. I mean, it sounds really pretentious, but you're sort of like, you know, you're picking something up that hasn't been touched in like 2000 years. Like I found a Roman ring a few weeks ago and you sort of like, who like, you're, you're just glazing over there.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  I'm so bored, but I have to listen to this.

• 46:12Speaker 05

  I know.

• 46:13Fearne Cotton?

  But you could sell that to me. I went to a Roman museum last week because I went on my daughter's school trip as a volunteer.

• 46:18Speaker 05

  Wow, that's cool.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 46:20Fearne Cotton?

  On the coach, the whole thing. And I learned so much about Roman Britain that I had no clue about and it was fascinating. You could sell that ring to that museum.

• 46:28Speaker 05

  Probably could.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not worth anything though.

• 46:30Speaker 05

  No, they dropped a lot of stuff. But the thing is, but it's like, it makes you like 2000 years just is gone. Like it makes you realise that we're not around for a long time.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  But what are they gonna discover? What are they gonna be detecting in 2000 years from now?

• 46:46Speaker 05

  My.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Laboo boos.

• 46:48Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, laboo boos and phones everywhere. Sad state of affairs.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 46:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is sad.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  We've got, we've got no personality as a generation, really.

• 46:57Fearne Cotton?

  Do you not think?

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Well, not rea- not as in like things. We don't really make.

• 47:01Speaker 05

  It's just plastic, isn't it?

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Drop things. Yeah, plastic.

• 47:04Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, landfill.

• 47:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:06Fearne Cotton?

  Where's your happy place, Daisy?

• 47:08Speaker 02

  In bed with a candle, watching either Strange But True.

• 47:13Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Or near death experience stories or astral projection stories. That is it. That's all I watch.

• 47:21Fearne Cotton?

  Heaven.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  What's yours? I want to know what yours is.

• 47:24Fearne Cotton?

  Um, mine changes every day. It's definitely at home. Maybe just with my kids or on my own. Love being on my own. I love it. Maybe doing some painting.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  Oh lovely.

• 47:37Fearne Cotton?

  Music playing, just like very simple, very quiet, very calm. Something like that, or in the sea, like being in the sea.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:46Fearne Cotton?

  Now, you said before we started, you would do my tarot.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  I'm gonna do your tarot.

• 47:50Fearne Cotton?

  Oh my god.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely. What do you want?

• 47:52Fearne Cotton?

  I'm so excited. What do you mean? What are their themes?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Well, you can ask a question, or we can just do a general one.

• 47:58Fearne Cotton?

  General, let's go general.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  What I need you to do, can you just knock on them and think of maybe a question? Have something that you wanna ask yourself.

• 48:10Fearne Cotton?

  Like I'm doing a little tap like this.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:11Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And then just keep shuffling them.

• 48:13Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  While thinking of something.

• 48:14Fearne Cotton?

  Oh god, what I can't have to tell us. Any direction with this.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  You don't have to tell us.

• 48:21Speaker 05

  But the thing is, when you do it, you, if you don't like what the tarot card says, you just put them back together and shuffle them again.

• 48:28Fearne Cotton?

  Yeah, but that's for me. This is whether I like it or not.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Oh, I've got to shuffle them, yeah. Keep shuffling. Right, so choose any three cards and put them like past, present, future.

• 48:39Fearne Cotton?

  That one's so odd, that one's so dumb.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Right, so that would be the future card, right. Oh, King of Pentacles, this is like a man with money, is what that means.

• 48:49Fearne Cotton?

  What's that, from the past?

• 48:50Speaker 02

  From the past. Usually generous but never stupid with his money. His material possessions are carefully purchased and cared for. Maybe very stubborn, blunt to the point of exasperation, overly materialistic or miserly.

• 49:06Fearne Cotton?

  Okay.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Okay, so this is interesting, this is present, this is the lovers. So this is exactly what it says on the tin, just really passionate.

• 49:15Fearne Cotton?

  Look at her bikini, she's amazing. Yeah, I'm into that image.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Really passionate. And the future, oh my god, this is amazing, this is like reaping. This is like all the work that you've done in whatever, ever area of your life, whether it be career or romance or home life. It's like you've put, you're about to reap the rewards of all the work you've put in. Like this is the time now.

• 49:42Fearne Cotton?

  Thank you for my tarot, I loved that. That was very enjoyable and thank you so much for both being on Happy Place. Good luck with the night watch and everything else you're doing. Thank you Charlie, thank you Daisy May.

• 49:52Speaker 05

  Absolute pleasure.

• 49:54Fearne Cotton?

  Daisy May and Charlie, thank you so much. I just love that. I'm left feeling so joyful. And also love my tarot reading. God, who's had their tarot cards read by Daisy May? How lucky am I? You can watch Daisy May and Charlie's new show Night Watch on the BBC Now. All right, next week, someone else who's been on the show before, about seven years ago. And I've been so desperate to talk to them again. Until then, a huge thank you to Daisy May and to Charlie, to the producer, Anushka Tate, at Happy Place Studios, and to you, you're the best.

• 50:56Speaker 07

  Help, I sexted my boss is the podcast where manners meets mayhem. I'm William Hanson. I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh-out-loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help, I sexted my boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.