Pod Insights How I Built This with Guy Raz How I Built Resilience: Justin Gold of Justin's About this episode Justin Gold is the founder of Justin's, known for its nut butters and chocolate peanut butter cups. He talks about how he started by pulverizing peanuts in his home blender, and describes how his customers are shopping differently during the pandemic. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating these turbulent times.
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0:00 Guy Raz? We get support from US Bank. A question I love asking founders. What's the one decision you almost didn't make? The one that changed everything? Because it's never the obvious stuff. It's never, I decided to start a company. It's the small, boring, Tuesday afternoon decision you barely remember making until you realize it's the reason everything after it either worked or didn't. Say you're 18 months in. Business is growing. You've got expenses coming from six directions. Gas for the van, office supplies, your phone bill, team lunches that are actually client meetings, and you're putting it all on whatever card you grabbed in year one. You're not thinking about it. Why would you? You've got bigger problems.
0:45 Guy Raz? But here's the thing. Path A, you keep going like that. End of the year, you're sorting through statements, trying to figure out what went where. You've left hundreds, maybe thousands, on the table in rewards you never earned. Money that could have gone back into the business. Path B, you pause and get the US Bank Triple Cash Rewards Visa Business Card. Now, you're earning 3% cash back on gas and EV charging, office supply stores, cellphone service, and restaurants. You pick up an extra $750 cash back as a bonus. And you've got a low APR on purchases and balance transfers for 12 months while you're scaling. Same business, same expenses, two completely different outcomes
1:30 Guy Raz? based on one small decision. Visit usbank.com/business to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is US Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions apply. Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Every founder on this show started with a hard question. Not the marketing plan, the 2:00 AM kind. Is this idea any good? Am I the one to build it? Should I quit my job? Anthropic got built the same way. A public benefit corporation founded on one Hard question. How do we make sure AI goes well for people?
2:14 Guy Raz? So they asked over 100,000 people their hopes and their fears and are publishing what they find, even the uncomfortable parts. Me? I've got my own hard question about AI. Here it is. If everyone has access to something that can help them write the business plan, build the prototype, analyze the market, maybe even come up with the idea. What separates the people who actually build something from everyone else? I don't have a clean answer yet, so I've been sitting with it with Claude. There's hope in hard questions. Ask yours at claude.ai/hibt.
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4:21 Guy Raz? NetSuite Next surfaces insights exactly when you need them, puts agents to work on routine tasks and problems, and lets you ask complex questions in plain language, like talking to a knowledgeable colleague. But technology is only part of the story. AI is also reshaping how people and teams work together, and that shift is already underway. That's why NetSuite wants to put a new, expert-created business guide in your hands today. It's called Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work. And right now, it's yours, absolutely free. Inside, you'll discover how AI could reshape work across your entire organization, and how to position your business to prosper from it.
5:06 Guy Raz? If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite's free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work, at netsuite.com/built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com/built. netsuite.com/built. Hey, really quick before we start the show, The How I Built This book is now a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller. So, thank you to all of you who ordered it and for your support of this show. If you haven't picked it up, and you want to learn the secrets of how to develop an entrepreneurial mindset, How I Built This, the book, is for you. It's now available wherever books are sold
5:49 Guy Raz? and in most countries around the world, or by visiting howibuiltthis.com or guyrazz.com. And thanks.
6:00 Guy Raz? Hey, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This Resilience Edition. On these episodes, as many of you know, we talk with entrepreneurs and other business leaders about how they're thinking creatively during this very disruptive time. And today, we're going to hear from Justin Gold. He's the founder of Justin's, which makes peanut and almond butters, protein bars, and other nut snacks. And ever since the pandemic started, Justin has noticed a few changes in the way people shop for their comfort food. But first, he told me a bit about how he got to start.
6:33 Speaker 01 So I'm a vegetarian, and 17 years ago, I started making peanut butter and almond butter in my kitchen with a food processor, mainly because, and I sound like a fossil, but back then, there were two types of peanut butter, right? It was smooth and crunchy, and that was really it. There were a few brands of almond butter. None of them tasted really good. When you ate a handful of almonds, it tasted amazing. So curiosity led me down a path of experimenting. And then with a food processor, I was making all these concoctions, putting them in jars, literally putting them in the fridge and in the cupboards. My roommate started eating them all. I started writing "Justin's" on the jars, right, to kind of protect it. And at that point, someone said, hey, this is a really great product. You ever thought about turning it into a business?
7:16 Speaker 01 I didn't know anything about business, but what I did know how to do was use a library. So I used C U's Business School's library. I didn't go to college.
7:23 Guy Raz? That's Colorado.
7:25 Speaker 01 Colorado University.
7:26 Guy Raz? University, yeah.
7:27 Speaker 01 In Boulder. I didn't go to school here, but I knew, I felt confident using their library. And I wrote a business plan, and I got a lot of help from local mentors and advisors and people in the community. Launched at the farmer's market. And when I launched, it was just with the jars. And I got them into a few local stores, and I was really struggling. And what got us kind of noticed, I guess you could say, was getting outside the jar and getting into a squeeze pack. And the squeeze pack was really our single point of differentiation. And it allowed consumers not only to travel with portable, plant-based protein, but also have a trial size to try something new, like an almond butter. Because almond butter was, you know, over $10 a jar. That's a big ring for someone to try something new.
8:11 Speaker 01 But for a squeeze pack alleviated that pain, brought them into the franchise. Then we also do chocolates and it's not because it was a really smart, deliberate business decision. It's because I love peanut butter cups and no one was making
8:24 Guy Raz? Who doesn't? Those are, those are the things I pick out of my kids' Halloween bags. The peanut butter cups. Just going back on the squeeze packs. For those who don't know what they are, I mean, it's pretty self explanatory, little sort of squeezy packs of peanut butter. Kind of like those energy packs. I use those when I run. They're great. And so that was really the differentiator. It wasn't the jars of peanut, because they look different. But that wasn't what got the attention. It was those little squeeze packs.
8:50 Speaker 01 It was. I thought the jars would be enough because we had a honey and we had cinnamon and a maple and just the the flavor differentiation. But it still really wasn't enough to stand out on shelves. And what happened was the squeeze pack, not only did it create a whole new subcategory of products, but it also made this portable protein kind of nut butter a reality. And it all came because I'm a big mountain biker and I wanted protein. I didn't need more sugar or carbohydrates. And what was really fun is when we first launched the product, people didn't know what to do with it, right? They were like, well, do I put it on a sandwich with, with jelly and then eat it together? I'm, I'm, no, no, no, put it on an apple, banana, eat it right out of the pack. And they're like, oh, really?
9:35 Speaker 01 And then what happened is when other companies started to create their own squeeze packs, it really validated as a category. It's been really special, but what it's really done has been a trial vehicle for our jars.
9:46 Guy Raz? Yeah.
9:46 Speaker 01 And that's really helped grow the jars. And during the pandemic, the jar business has been the strongest part of our business because it is that household, plant-based protein that is, is a staple.
9:59 Guy Raz? I read an interview you gave where you described the first kind of three years. I, I think one of the things you did, and this is really cool for anybody who's starting a business now, that in the early days, you would go to Whole Foods and you would look at all of the glass jars at Whole Foods to find out what brands were being made in glass jars and where they were manufactured or packed. And you contacted a glass jar.
10:22 Guy Raz? Co-Packer in the area and begged them to have some time on their line. And I guess you got like overnights and weekends. And you basically spent three years just packing your own nut butter into glass jars. And that was not sustainable, right? It was not profitable. It was not sustainable. It was just a grind. How did you keep going? What made it? What made you not just give up?
10:45 Speaker 01 A, I had a goal. I knew what numbers I needed to achieve and I had a plan on what retailers I needed to roll out to, to achieve those numbers. And it was the optimism that I had from the local community. Boulder's a great community. They support local, they support natural and organic, they support the entrepreneur. And I also realized that I'm not really a skilled operator. I'm like, my, my passion and skill is outside of the manufacturing. But I knew that I had to hit certain volumes in order to get to a manufacturing facility where then I could focus on other things, sales, marketing and growing the brand. And so I really worked really hard, knowing that there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
11:23 Guy Raz? In March, when it became clear the pandemic was going to be a serious thing, people rushed to the stores to buy toilet paper and energy bars. And I'm assuming nut butters too. I'm assuming that you, you probably saw a spike in sales. Is that right, by the way?
11:39 Speaker 01 We did, we did. Not across the board, but across some parts of our business, yes.
11:43 Guy Raz? Then were you bracing for a decline in revenue? I know that, that Justin's nut butters were, were purchased by Hormel in 2016. So you've got a parent company, but you're still operating independently and you still work there. Were you guys kind of bracing for, for a decline in revenue?
12:02 Speaker 01 So the first thing we had to do was make sure that everyone in our organization felt safe, supported, and that they had food and that everyone knew that we weren't going to just shut down our business. So I think giving people this sense of security gave them the optimism to continue to do their job because they knew they were taken care of. And we didn't know what to brace for, to be completely honest. We started to reach out to our retailers to see what they needed and they told us exactly what they needed, which was more product. Everything flowed downstream, so then we reached out to our contract manufacturers to make sure that we stayed in supply and we actually had to make sure that they were taking care of their people. It was like having four holidays, back to back to back, this unprecedented demand.
12:45 Speaker 01 And so the first thing we had to do was kind of cut back on the SKUs that weren't our top sellers. And then our manufacturers went to seven days a week and it's monitoring their progress and monitoring stores and allocating this to stores based on their demand and needs and then pulling resources away from food service and putting them more towards grocery. You know, it was wild and it continues to be wild.
13:07 Guy Raz? And what kind of trends are you noticing or seeing in terms of sales and consumption? I mean, are people sort of back to consuming Justin's nut butters in the same way? Because people aren't making school lunches for kids as much, but people have more time, for example, to exercise and also they're eating at home. So are you noticing any trends that you hadn't seen before?
13:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it's fascinating because one of my roles is innovation within our organization. So it's trying to guess and to understand the things that I need in my daily life. The trends we're noticing are people aren't shopping the stores as much right now, right? You're in and you're out. So a lot of the impulse purchases have been flat, if not declining. So some of our chocolate items that were single serve aren't doing nearly as well as the chocolate items that are in multi-backs. Same goes with our jars, we're doing really well because it's something you can take home. Our squeeze packs aren't doing as well as the jars because it's more of an on-the-go activity and I feel like people aren't as on-the-go as they are right now. They're at home and they can take a spoonful of almond butter or peanut butter rather
14:16 Speaker 01 than have a squeeze pack or something. And so we've noticed that a lot of the trends are at home. We've also positioned ourselves well with a lot of retailers by being a part of their online kind of shopping programs. Consumers aren't going into stores as often and so the brands that have leveraged themselves with the online platforms, the Instacarts and whatnot, are seeing success with that as well. And that was something that caught me by surprise. But now I get it, right? That's part of the future.
14:46 Guy Raz? When we come back in just a moment, more of my conversation with Justin Gold and advice for future entrepreneurs who may be wondering, is now the right time to take a leap? Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition from NPR.
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18:10 Guy Raz? Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. And I'm talking with Justin Gold. He's the founder of Justin's, which makes nut butters and snacks. Justin, put on your entrepreneur's hat for a moment. I mean, you started this business in 2004 when you were in college. I think you were studying to be a lawyer. Right now, a lot of people are out of work, but there's also some indication that many people are considering starting their own businesses. I think the number of applications for employee identification numbers has increased by half a million this year compared to this time last year. And that's the first step in starting a business, as you know. Do you think that it's a good time to do that? I mean, do you think that despite the challenges,
18:54 Guy Raz? that there are opportunities at this moment?
18:57 Speaker 01 It depends, right? I mean, there's two things that are the most important to me. Number one, is there an unmet consumer need? And number two, are you passionate about it? So if there's a problem that you've identified, that you're passionate about fixing, then absolutely. Now's a great time to start a business. Hopefully, there's enough people that share that pain point that you can turn that into a business. But if you're bored, you're looking for something to do, and you're not sure, that can be tricky. But again, you know, if you don't start somewhere, you'll never end up anywhere. So I never turn entrepreneurs away with a bad idea. I always talk to them and say, look, I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but if you're passionate about it, you think it's meeting an unmet consumer need, then launch it, see what happens.
19:42 Speaker 01 And guess what will probably happen is if it fails, you'll learn from that failure and pivot it to hopefully find your success. And if you are lucky and you get it, you know, right the first time, wow.
19:55 Guy Raz? I mean, when you started selling nut butters, you weren't making a whole lot of money, and I don't think you were profitable. But but how did you know that it was going to work? That you should continue? Was it just people saying, this is awesome, this is so good? Was that basically it?
20:09 Speaker 01 You never know, right? I mean, you never know. And I think it's the law of attraction. I think that if you think about growth and you think about success, and you'll find the people that'll help encourage it and promote it. I was always thinking that this was going to work. I just didn't know how or when. And let's face it, I got a lot of encouragement. People were like, wow, this is really great. This is a great idea. You know, I got a lot of, how come no one's ever done this before? And those really gave me a lot of encouragement to continue. And I also got a few people who were peanut butter? Why would you go into peanut butter? Imagine, Guy, like, here I am, I wanted to be a lawyer. My parents were, oh, Justin, our son's going to be a lawyer. We're so proud.
20:53 Speaker 01 And then I decided not to go to law school, jump out of the LSATs. You know, I graduated the degree in environmental policy. I moved to San Francisco Bay Area, and I worked at a restaurant in Point Reyes, Station House Cafe. Worked at that restaurant for a year, moved to Colorado. My parents are now, oh, my, our son is confused. He'll figure it out. And then I come to my mom and dad and I go, Mom, Dad, I figured out what I want to do. Son, you're going back to school. You want to be a, no, no. I'm gonna make organic peanut butter and almond butter. And my parents were like, oh, what have we done? What have we done? You know, so I also got some naysayers and my parents, of course, were fabulous. But it was, um, a lot of people also had a lot of skepticism because it's a huge category
21:36 Speaker 01 with huge companies and it had been the same for a long time and that's where I got lucky.
21:41 Guy Raz? I imagine that when you were working at that restaurant in Point Reyes, you weren't thinking, I'm gonna do nut butters. Like, there was some point where you had a revelation, you know, where you thought, this is the thing I want to do and then it kind of stuck with you. What's your recommendation for finding an idea, coming up with something to start?
21:59 Speaker 01 Wow, I don't know.
22:02 Speaker 01 I guess for me, there's two things that I did, right? Number one, when I was up till three in the morning, writing a business plan, you know, grinding almonds and peanuts and adding the hot pepper and cinnamon and fresh banana and dried banana and chocolate and staying up all night and eating until I had to lie down on my back because I just couldn't fit anymore. You know, when I was up all night doing this stuff and then I'd be like, holy crap, it's three in the morning, I knew that this was something powerful because it had such a grip on me and it was so exciting. And it didn't feel like work and still doesn't. And that's the whole goal. So number one, I knew there was something there because it was, it was really fun.
22:43 Speaker 01 And the second thing was I was very optimistically cautious, right? So I, um, I worked second jobs. I was waiting tables up until I had two employees. I got a job at REI, you know, selling backpacks and skis and sleeping bags. And when I had five employees, and so I was, I was constantly putting everybody else first to make sure that, you know, we can make payroll, we can keep making the products. I'll get health insurance somewhere else. I'll have a second job. And so I didn't take the total leap until everybody else was being paid fair and living wages. And then I finally was able to pay myself a fair and living wage. So even though I had all this confidence, I put, I put a lot of people first to make sure the business was being served before I was being served.
23:29 Guy Raz? All right, we're getting questions here from our listeners and this is from random texts from YouTube. This person asks, I sell a brewing cocoa as a coffee alternative at a farmer's market. What advice do you have for someone like me who is selling at a farmer's market, but wants to move to regional distribution?
23:45 Speaker 01 The first thing you have to do is start locally, right? You have to own your home and that gives you some success there. Then, once you own your home, you have permission to move out to the next layer. And the next layer can be specialty gourmet stores. It can be coffee shops. It can be natural food stores. And then you can centrally keep growing, but you have to own your home. And if you can do well in your home market, that will give you the success and the momentum to continue to that next concentric ring.
24:11 Guy Raz? So essentially, you're saying this person has to, when you say own the home, like the farmer's market, people who come to that farmer's market need to know, oh, you want brewing cocoa? That's where you gotta go.
24:21 Speaker 01 You gotta get it into all the other coffee shops. You gotta get it in the hardware store. You gotta get it in grab and go locations, the grocery stores. And what's crazy is if you see one product in one store once, you kind of like forget it. But if you see the same product in four or five different stores, you're like, all right, all right, clearly I have to try this product. And so owning your home is getting it everywhere. And then, once you own your home, you can kind of understand your consumer, understand where you belong. Maybe coffee shops is your direction. Well, maybe grocery is your direction. Maybe, you know, performance outdoor stores is your direction. And if you own your home, you can kind of, you know, assess what's, what's working and what isn't, and then take that and you can expand it.
25:03 Guy Raz? All right, here's another question from Facebook, Stephanie Leisner. Stephanie asks, now that more competitors are coming up with their own natural, organic versions of nut butters, how does Justin stay differentiated in the brand of choice?
25:17 Speaker 01 That's a really tough question. It's one that, you know, I haven't had to think about before. And, and so, right now, there's multiple ways. Number one, we have to stay consistent. We have to continue to deliver a high-quality product. We can't take any steps backwards because that'll give a consumer reason to leave. The second thing we have to do is be better. Continue to create better products, innovate in the new categories. And I think the most important thing is really have a greater purpose. That buying a jar of almond butter, not only is it good for our bodies because it's a high protein, plant-based product, but we're supporting farmers, we're supporting pollinators, we're supporting hunger relief programs, we're supporting non-GMO, organic, regenerative, all the things that are going to restore balance to our bodies and the earth.
26:01 Speaker 01 And I think purpose is really important.
26:03 Guy Raz? All right, here's a question from Jessica Goldstein. Jessica's curious, why the presence of palm oil or anything other than just nuts? Why is that necessary as additions to your products? I'm looking at your ingredients and it's just dry roasted almonds and palm oil. So why?
26:19 Speaker 01 It's a great question. So palm oil is in a lot of food products. And if it's harvested correctly, it's really a beneficial oil because it's a non-hydrogenated oil that helps contain those free and loose almond and peanut oils. So you don't have to continue to always stir it. And palm oil is controversial. And so we've done a really good job identifying sustainably grown palm oil. So we can make sure that we're giving back to our communities, to our consumers, to the places we buy it. And that's why we use it.
26:52 Guy Raz? There are palm oils that are grown organically and sustainably. And I mean, I use it for cooking sometimes. But there's of course, other parts of the world where forests are clear cut to plant palm oil groves. And that's where a lot of the controversy comes from.
27:07 Speaker 01 And palm oil is in a lot of food products. It's in a lot of cosmetics where they don't have ingredient statements. It's in cookies, it's in ice cream, it's in chocolates. And what's interesting is with our products, we use a very, very small percent of it. But when there's two ingredients, right? It's very visible.
27:24 Guy Raz? Before we let you go, Justin, what's something that you kind of want to take away from the last year with you in the future? When let's say. The company goes back to normal and you are on the road again and you're traveling again or you're, you know, you're back in the office. What's something that you've kind of learned about, about yourself or about your, your leadership style or about the way you, you want to work that you want to continue to do after this pandemic hopefully ends?
27:49 Speaker 01 I don't know if we'll ever experience normal. Whatever normal is, is what we're living today, right? So this is normal. And I think that when the world evolves, I think that this need to travel and this need to be in person and this need to be away from our family, I think that will evolve. And I'm not saying that this is going to be the future, but this is a part of the future. And I think that we all need to consider, what does that mean? And how does that impact our lives? And what, where are the opportunities for food products, for snacking? How does that evolve categories in grocery? How does it evolve the way we interact with each other? And so it gets me really excited to think about that. And the most important thing for me, and we talked about this off the air, was the
28:33 Speaker 01 time I've spent with my family that I wouldn't have otherwise. And that's really precious. And that has me reconsidering my needs at once, not only for the organization, but also for my family.
28:45 Guy Raz? That's an excerpt from my conversation with Justin Gold, founder of Justin's. To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com/HowIBuiltThis. And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at youtube.com/NPR. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger with help from J.C. Howard, Will Mitchell, Bruce Grant, Matt Adams, El Manion, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is Farah Safari. Thanks for listening. Stay safe and I'll see you back here in a few days.
29:29 Guy Raz? I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR.
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