How I Built Resilience: Cheryl Contee of Do Big Things

Do Big Things is a Black woman-led, mission-driven digital agency that works with companies like Google, Etsy, and the NAACP, and has a staff that's 50% people of color. The agency's CEO and founder Cheryl Contee says having a diverse team is a strategy for authentic engagement. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times. Order the How I Built This book at: https://smarturl.it/HowIBuiltThisSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Guy Raz?

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• 0:45Guy Raz?

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• 1:30Guy Raz?

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• 2:54Guy Raz?

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• 4:21Guy Raz?

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• 5:06Guy Raz?

  If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get NetSuite's free business guide, Aligning for the Agentic Era: How AI is Changing Everyday Work, at netsuite.com/built. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com/built. netsuite.com/built. Hey, really quick before we start the show, The How I Built This book is now a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller. So, thank you to all of you who ordered it and for your support of this show. If you haven't picked it up, and you want to learn the secrets of how to develop an entrepreneurial mindset, How I Built This, the book, is for you. It's now available wherever books are sold and in most countries around the world,

• 5:52Guy Raz?

  or by visiting howibuiltthis.com or guyrazz.com. And thanks.

• 6:02Guy Raz?

  Hey, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This Resilience Edition. On these episodes, we're talking with entrepreneurs and other business leaders about how they're meeting today's challenges with new strategies and ideas. And today, we're going to hear from Sheryl Conti, founder and CEO of Do Big Things. Sheryl was part of the How I Built This Summit both in 2018 and 2019. Her digital agency, Do Big Things, helps organizations like Google, the NAACP, and Etsy with creative strategy, website development, campaign content, and much more. Tell us a little bit more about Do Big Things. Tell us about your company.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Sure, absolutely. So Do Big Things is a digital agency, as you mentioned, that specializes in working with the world's leading causes, campaigns, candidates, corporations with mission-driven initiatives to provide the new narrative and new tech for the new era in which we all are living in today. We're working really hard on the election, but also on the pandemic. We've been working on eviction prevention campaigns. We're likely to start working on a campaign targeted at misinformation around vaccines. We're out here really trying hard to help people in a tough time.

• 7:15Guy Raz?

  And sort of give me a sense of how you work with companies, like campaigns, of course, and sort of creative, marketing, strategic advice, things like that.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Sure. People come to us for a lot of different reasons, right? We are a digital, full-service agency. Whether you need strategy, you need research on online influencers and who to target where, for what, whether you want to run ads for persuasion or for acquisition. We're building apps. We build websites. It just depends on, you need to do something online to reach someone, usually not to sell anything. We're not selling things, widgets, toothpaste, cars. We're helping to promote positive ideas that create social change.

• 7:57Guy Raz?

  So I know, Sheryl, before you launched Do Big Things, you actually created another business, attentive.ly, attentively, which is a social marketing software business and one of the first tech startups with a black female founder, and then was acquired by a NASDAQ company. Can you just kind of walk us through the journey of that business and how it was acquired, and then how you decided to start Do Big Things?

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Well, that's a long story of how I started Attentively. But basically, we saw a gap in the market. And I think especially in this time, for those people, maybe you have lost your job or your job is changing. You know, look at the gaps around you and see if you're able to provide a solution to that problem. That's what we did. We saw in the corporate marketing segment that there were a lot of people using social listening, influencer engagement and marketing automation in very sophisticated ways online that nonprofits didn't have access to for a lot of different reasons. Price, the tools weren't really tailored to the way that they talk about their audiences. So that's why we created Attentively to meet that need and fill that gap.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  And, you know, we had competition, of course, and, and we were very visible also, you know, as an all-female team with a black female co-founder. It wasn't easy to get funding. We, we had to work really hard and, and I experienced, you know, some real discrimination despite, you know, running at the same time, you know, another digital agency that had pulled in millions of dollars in revenue. You know, we were still seen as risky, uh, which to me seemed very, very strange. Long story short, we grew over time. We became the dominant player in our market and, you know, we were an impact startup that then became acquired by an impact corporation, Blackbaud, which is one of the leading purveyors of nonprofit software.

• 9:44Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  So it's possible to do good by doing good and, and that's what we do here at Do Big Things and what we did at Attentively.

• 9:53Guy Raz?

  I know that you've got a blog and you write for different publications, a, a lot about increasing diversity in entrepreneurship. Can you talk a little about some of the ways that you are trying to push this idea out into the world?

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Well, when you look at the field right now, there's still this socialization in our country, in our world, that a, an entrepreneur looks like Mark Zuckerberg. And no disrespect to Mark, but, you know, he's not the only person who's got great ideas. Entrepreneurs can come in every shade, every size, every color. And that's a thing that I think- Think we need to work hard, especially now as our economy is rebooting, you know, to work on. So I wrote a book, Mechanical Bull, How You Can Achieve Startup Success. It's the story of my journey, but there's also a lot of friends of mine who are investors, who are founders themselves, and it's their stories as well of,

• 10:49Speaker 01

  you know, what did it take to get through every part of the startup cycle, which is tough. I named it Mechanical Bull in part because it's a wild ride.

• 10:57Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  I mean, it's tech startup, no question, especially if you're a woman. When a woman rides a mechanical bull, people have a different response to that than a man. You know, when a man rides a mechanical bull, they're looking at his strength, his strategy, his stamina. When a woman is riding a mechanical bull, you know, they're, you know, watching the jiggly parts. Right? And they're not really focused on the same amount of effort, maybe more effort, that it takes for a woman, that same strength, strategy and stamina. So, you know, I did it the tough way. Okay, like being in the tech world as a black woman, not easy at all. Absolutely dancing backwards in heels.

• 11:35Guy Raz?

  You wrote an article in the Harvard Business Review called Advice on Launching a Tech Startup When You're Not a White Man, and it's a really terrific article. One of the things you talked about was that when founders of color are pitching VCs, they're pitching ideas that may help their communities out, but may not solve problems or impact the lives of the rich, you know, predominantly white men who they're pitching. So what advice do you have for up and coming founders and founders of color to kind of demonstrate that their big ideas are worth it, are worth backing, even if the potential funders, you know, might not be directly impacted by that product or service?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I do hope that people check out that article because we worked really closely with Harvard Business Review on it. And it has a lot of practical tips in it that I think people can use right now. But at least what worked for me was data, data, data, data, right? And showing, look, you might not get this totally. This isn't a problem that I'm solving for you, wealthy, white, male investor. But there's a lot of people for whom this is an issue, and here's how much money we can make. We can do a lot of good. Some investors really care about that, especially right now. But also, you know, this is a pathway. To making a lot of money and creating a successful business that builds jobs.

• 12:52Guy Raz?

  When we come back in just a moment, more of my conversation with Cheryl Conti and how entrepreneurs can battle imposter syndrome and build strong networks online. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition from NPR.

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• 13:56Guy Raz?

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• 15:40Guy Raz?

  And one more thing. The New York Times bestselling book, How I Built This, is now available. It's a great read and a great gift for anyone looking for ideas, inspiration, wisdom, and encouragement to have the courage to put out an idea into the world. It's filled with tons of stories you haven't heard about how some of the greatest entrepreneurs you know and respect started out at the very bottom. Check out How I Built This, the book, available wherever you buy your books.

• 16:15Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. And I'm talking with Cheryl Conti. She's the founder and CEO of Do Big Things. And even after starting multiple businesses, Cheryl often gets asked about how to handle imposter syndrome. At the summit, you did a session about imposter syndrome, which I love talking about because it's such a it's such a huge issue for so many people. So many people, even successful people. And you talked about how you, especially as a black woman in tech, you know, dealt with it, especially when you're in a room full of, you know, people who all look the same. So let's talk about this idea first. I mean, when you, when you talk to younger founders or younger entrepreneurs, people starting up, they probably confide in you that they're a little bit nervous

• 16:59Guy Raz?

  about feeling like they don't, quote unquote, "belong." What do you, what do you say to people when they? When they talk to you about that.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  I certainly felt that way when I first started. I was definitely the fly in the oatmeal. Uh, which in some ways I turned to an advantage, right? Because if I'm, you know, the only black woman walking into a room and there's a hundred white guys, and I'm not kidding, that has literally happened to me.

• 17:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Uh, you know, people remember me, you know, they know who I am, you know, I stand out. And so in my case, I tried to A, fake it until I could make it and say, all right, you know, I need to embody being a successful, you know, technologist. And even if I don't feel that way right now, how would I act? If I were that, um, and then it became more natural over time as I practiced and, and basically role played. It felt like role playing sometimes, um, but also, you know, use it as an advantage to stand out. And look, you are as qualified as anyone there. That's what I tell people. You're as qualified. You know, just, you know, bring your best to the table and there are going to be people who don't get it, who don't want to work with you. I mean, that's the reality of the situation.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, in America today, but I personally have found the tech sector to overall be relatively welcoming, especially if you have, you know, really strong technical skills, which are needed right now.

• 18:20Guy Raz?

  I think one of the ways that you also suggested people kind of try to tackle this or overcome imposter syndrome is to build a network. I mean, right now we're, you know, all living in a virtual world because we're all inside for obvious reasons. How can people build virtual networks now? What are some ways they can start to do that?

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Well, especially for younger people, wow, what an advantage you have that I didn't have in terms of, you know, coming into your career with a network that you can keep in touch with because as you get older, a lot of your peers are going to have really interesting careers and, and jobs. And, you know, you can help each other. But yeah, I have found that the power of a network to be the thing that has made all the difference for me. I could not have launched my businesses without my network, definitely couldn't have kept them.

• 19:08Guy Raz?

  Hmm.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  And growing it over time is really important because that's where you're going to find your team members, your clients. Partners, opportunities to co-market together, and people who will have your back and vouch for you in spaces where you might be different than the norm. And that certainly has happened for me, where I've had white peers say, hey, Cheryl's great. You should talk to her, which has sometimes made a big difference.

• 19:36Guy Raz?

  Cheryl, we're getting some questions in from viewers. And this one comes from Twitter, from Scribe Light. And the question is, how do you authentically avoid contributing to the systems of white supremacy in an industry as complicit as marketing in the US?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  That is a great question, because white supremacy isn't just a white people problem. It's an everybody problem, right? We see it all the time in various ways, where people even diminish themselves, or they say, oh, I don't want that kind of person helping me,

• 20:09Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  even if they're the same color. So it's certainly something that we focus on at Do Big Things. All of my businesses have been diverse. And that's not, again, just a nice to have. It's a strategy. In our case, we have people who have a disability. We have LGBTQ staff. We have people who live in every region of the United States, West Coast, East Coast, Midwest, South. We have people of every different ethnicity. We have people who are immigrants, and people whose family, like mine, have been here for centuries. When the content comes from those voices and they're targeting the same market, it's so much more authentic. And we try to pull in the voices of the people we're serving as much as possible.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  So it's not always us talking or creating the content. We're finding that we're working with the people to then put those voices back into the ether.

• 21:05Guy Raz?

  Question from Tom via LinkedIn. Tom says, we want more diversity at our company. How do we strategically market to minorities to get them interested in working for us?

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Ah, that is a really great question. Good for you. You know, I get it that, you know, you're trying to reach outside your network and you're not really sure how to start. And I think acknowledging that is important. You know, it happens to me all the time where colleagues reach out to me and say, who do you know, Cheryl? Can you connect me? You know, so figure out who in your network. You've got to know, hopefully, at least some black and brown people. And if you don't know them personally, look them up on LinkedIn. You know, start to look in your field, start to read articles in your field and figure out, okay, who are the leaders who also happen to be black or Latinx or Asian American? Reach out to them, even if you don't know them, and just say, hey, I love your work.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  I think you're great. I'd love to get to know you. And hey, we're also hiring. You know, actually, you know, you're going to have to do a little more work. You're going to have to get out of your bubble and really reach out. Now, there's also lots of venues where you can reach out. You know, there's Black Enterprise Magazine, you know, there are, of course, shows, you know, that you can advertise on, blogs, you know, there are online influencers you can look up. But it does require taking that step of doing some research to figure out who are the leaders? Who are the players? And how can we start to reach out to them to help us recruit?

• 22:33Guy Raz?

  We have a question from Sadie from YouTube. Sadie asks, what advice do you have for women of color who want to start their own businesses, but they may not have the resources to get started?

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a chance that you don't have the resources to get started and that it's going to be more difficult for you. I mean, there's no question, yes, it might take you a little bit longer to raise. It might take you a little bit longer to sell. However, things have definitely changed since I first started my startup. There's a lot more angel networks that are focused on people of color and on female entrepreneurs. You know, in the wake of the racial justice movement that has surged forward, almost every fund that I know is really looking at, you know, how can we lean in on funding people of color? And look, you know, you don't have to have your own idea. You know, the good news is that there are.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Are a lot of companies that have franchises and they're eager to bring in people of color to run those franchises. They will give you money, uh, loans, they'll give you training, you're in a network. So there are lots of different ways to find those resources, but look online. I mean, the good news is this is the power of building a network. You know, when you go to places like Angel List or FS6, there are all of these great networks, even LinkedIn. You know, where there are investors who are looking for entrepreneurs and team members who may not have their own idea, but they want to get involved in a startup and so build your team.

• 24:03Guy Raz?

  You know, in recent months, we've had some VCs on who are focusing on supporting women and women of color. And as you point out, the environment is changing for fundraising for black entrepreneurs. But if you are, you know, a black founder, say, in the middle of the country, in a place like St. Louis or Chicago, rather than, you know, New York or the Bay Area, where do you start? Where do you start to kind of look around for support when you have what you think is a great idea?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  There's probably an angel network, you know, that's local in your state and you should look them up and seek them out. But you've got to start making relationships outside of St. Louis for sure. That doesn't mean that you have to move your business or that you have to move. If there's any bright light in the pandemic, there aren't very many. But one bright light is that where you live right now doesn't matter so much. So, you know, it's a question of how do you start to map out? Okay, this is my idea. Who are the funds? Who are the investors that are interested in this kind of either manufacturing? Or AI or this startup or food? Because funds, VCs and angels do tend to have a focus of where they're going to put their money.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  They're not just looking for any startup or, you know, any black person or any woman of color or any founder. So that's the, the beauty of the internet. You can actually go out and Google and start to network and just talk to them. You don't be shy. I mean, look, I'm here to tell you, being shy is not a way to be successful in business.

• 25:34Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  You know, if you don't look like a traditional entrepreneur, whatever that means, you're going to have to be fairly assertive and persistent. You know, one of the ways in which I was able to get that first funding was not giving up. I had to knock on an awful lot of doors. A lot of doors shut on me, but I didn't give up. And eventually, I was able to find those first couple of investors who said, this seems like a really good bet. You know, I know the world of venture capital and impact investing better than most just from direct and at times painful experience. And this is a great time to be an investor. And for a lot of different reasons, there are haves and have nots in America right now. And if you are a have, there are some excellent opportunities to both make money in the near

• 26:19Speaker 01

  future and invest in impact companies that aim to bring something positive into the world and solve problems. And that means doubling down, if you want to bring this economy back, doubling down on investing in small businesses, especially from women, especially from minorities, especially from rural areas, in innovative startups that are rising up, because those are the businesses right now that are undervalued and are going to overperform.

• 26:43Guy Raz?

  That's an excerpt from my conversation with Sheryl Conti, the founder and CEO of Do Big Things. To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com/HowIBuiltThis. And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at youtube.com/NPR. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger with help from J.C. Howard, Will Mitchell, Bruce Grant, Matt Adams, El Mannion, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Niva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is Farah Safari. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days.

• 27:27Guy Raz?

  I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR.